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Aquila

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Set Expansion Contest
« on: September 22, 2020, 02:22:37 am »
+4

This contest has the same format as the Weekly Design Contest. The objective is a bit more specific though: to take one of the official sets each week and design a card to add to it. Some weeks may call for a specific kind of card that the contest host feels the set is lacking in. Submitting a card entered into the WDC is absolutely fine, as we're thinking about how our fan cards interact with the official game here.

Winners:

Base set
by gambit05

Intrigue
Quote
Heiress - $5
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.
by xen3k

Seaside
by aladdinstardust

Alchemy
by gambit05

Prosperity
by silverspawn

Cornucopia
by segura

Dark Ages
by silverspawn

Guilds
by grep



Contest #1: Base Set

I have no other requirements here. Make a card that adds to the base set whilst keeping to its themes: simple to understand, no extra mechanics, maybe introduces a basic play aspect of the game.

Judging: 28th September 3:00pm forum time
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 08:40:28 am by Aquila »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2020, 06:29:16 am »
+8

My submission:



Carpenter
$3 – Action
Quote
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
          Look at the top card of your           
deck. You may discard it.

- An extra $3 cost card gives more variability in early turns.
- A cheap card with +Buy is missing in the base set.
- There are already lots of can-trips in the set, especially cards with a cost of $3.
- Carpenter has direct synergy/anti-synergy with Harbinger, Vassal, Sentry, Artisan an mild interaction with lots of other cards.
- It helps players to learn that a top-decked Copper usually isn’t optimal.
- It helps players to learn the difference between drawing 2 and 3 cards (e.g. Smithy, Council Room); and between terminal vs
  non-terminal cards (e.g. Laboratory). 
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D782802859

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2020, 06:33:40 am »
0



Just moving my entry from the other thread for consistency.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2020, 08:15:54 am »
+1

Here's my submission. I don't know if it should have +1 Action.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2020, 08:19:26 am »
0

[Locksmith]
I think that it should say "+1 Card per other differently named Action card you have in play"
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LastFootnote

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2020, 09:17:02 am »
0



Just moving my entry from the other thread for consistency.

Does this count other copies of Locksmith?
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 10:17:52 am »
+1

Carpenter looks excellent; a solid mix of abilities and a good cost for it.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2020, 10:25:56 am »
+1


Quote
Repast • $4 • Action
Trash this. If you did,
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
+$2

Feast variation. Teaches tempo for new players, doesn't double with Throne Rooms, doesn't proc with command cards. Also, cheap buy, which, as gambit05 pointed out, is now missing in the base set.

Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 07:59:26 pm »
0



Quote
Lumber - $2
Treasure
$1
+1 Buy
When you play this, you may discard a Victory card for +$1.

Adds a treasure to the base set as well as a cheap +buy. It may be too cheap at $2, but I don't think allowing you to use a VP card as a copper is too powerful
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 06:25:06 pm by Xen3k »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2020, 01:19:04 pm »
+2


Terminal sifter with +buy
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2020, 06:48:09 pm »
+3


Such a simple idea, you'd think Donald would've thought of it...
(needs better art though)

silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2020, 05:28:45 am »
+1



In case anyone is wondering, I'm not trying to joke. No-one said a submission can't be strictly better than a removed card, and I genuinely think this is a perfectly fine vanilla effect for a card costing 3$.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2020, 06:53:28 pm »
+2

Healer
Action - $2
+$1
+1 Buy
You may trash a card from your hand. If it's a Curse, +$3.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2020, 12:15:32 am »
+2



Chancellor: Action, $3
+1 Buy
+$2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 10:09:10 pm by LastFootnote »
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2020, 12:25:45 am »
0

Anchorite: Action $3
If this is your only card in play, +2 Cards +1 action +$1
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2020, 07:10:02 am »
0

Seems too harsh / swingy, i.e. part of the card (e.g. the draw) should trigger even when it is not the only card in play.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2020, 10:26:40 am »
0

Silversmith: gets more non-attack player interaction and also teaches newer players of how bad silver can be. Everyone will want free silver, then realise it clogs up their engine. Also gets a terminal buy in there too.
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pubby

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2020, 03:35:20 pm »
0

Gentleman - Action - $2
Reveal a card from your hand and put it on top of your deck. If it's an
Action: +3 Actions
Treasure: +$3
Victory: +3 Buys
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GendoIkari

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2020, 06:30:14 pm »
0



Chancellor: Action, $3
+1 Buy
+$2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.

Messenger still exists in this world, right?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2020, 09:55:54 pm »
+1



Chancellor: Action, $3
+1 Buy
+$2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.

Messenger still exists in this world, right?

Yes, but it has a "bonus".

EDIT: For what it's worth, if I thought this ever had a chance of getting printed, I never would have suggested the "you may put your deck into your discard pile" clause on Messenger. Honestly I probably wouldn't suggest it these days anyway. Makes the card too complex.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 09:57:53 pm by LastFootnote »
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2020, 04:48:20 am »
0



This card is meant to discourage the spamming of Village and Silver.
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2020, 03:01:24 pm »
+1

24 hours left
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2020, 03:45:37 pm »
0

Anchorite: Action $3
If this is your only card in play, +2 Cards +1 action +$1

Edit:
Anchorite: Action $4
+2 Cards
If this is your only card in play, +1 action +$2
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2020, 09:55:03 pm »
+1

Edit to silversmith to make it less like council room:

Silversmith - Action - $3
+1 Buy
+$1
You may trash a silver from your hand for +$3
Each player (including you) may gain a silver.
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2020, 04:42:51 pm »
+5

Contest #1 results

It's been nice to see there's some more interest in this format, with 13 entries. Before we start, straight away we can talk about Woodcutter, as the vast majority of entries are cheap +buys. Not a bad move, we quite like +buys in moderation. These are Donald's words:
Quote from: Donald X in the Secret History of the Dominion 2nd Editions
Woodcutter: Woodcutter is fine, it's totally fine. It's just, the main set had six vanilla cards, and did it need six? Cards that do things are more interesting. I felt like five would be enough. The card to take out wanted to be one of the +Buy cards, since I thought having three of those was better than having four (even if all three cost $5, which is what happened). Market is way more beloved so Woodcutter was the card to cut.
So it's absolutely fine. If a second base set were to exist, Woodcutter could go in it. If fans want to add it to their 2nd edition base set, no problem. It might just be a bit boring for some, so with all these cheap +buy entries I've made interestingness quite an important factor; would you choose them over Woodcutter? (You wouldn't have both.)
So by default, those I rate higher are going to be ranked better than LibraryAdventurer's entry :P.

Quote
Locksmith (D782802859)
Action, $5 cost.
+1 Card for each other differently named Action card you have in play.
It feels nice to power this up, and the cards are in the base set to make it happen (the several cantrips, festival, throne room). There's a real newbie trap in collecting all the Actions of the kingdom when often that's wrong, but that's a nice lesson to learn here. It feels similar to Library however, in being draw you want to set up nicely; Library also has a backup plan for when it's drawn in a bad hand, you can skip the Actions, whereas this can really fail. If you don't have many different Actions in hand, then you need draw to get them, awkward if Locksmith is (part of) your draw.

Quote
Carpenter (gambit05)
Action, $3 cost.
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Look at the top card of your deck; you may discard it.
Put a +buy on a draw card and you have a valuable engine piece; newer players can learn this as they see how few +buy cards Dominion has. This is quite strong with Village, you get all your engine needs in 2 cheap cards and assemble it quickly, but you'd still need other things to get it up to winning speed most of the time. It is interesting with its Vassal synergy and general cycling, teaching its importance. Nice one.

Quote
Vein (Jonatan Durakhovitch)
Action, $4 cost.
+1 Action
You may discard a Treasure to gain a Gold.
The base Treasures are a big part of the base set to be sure. Gardens quite like this too, and it's an interesting matchup to Bandit. Chapel/vein is a very potent opening, but that's Chapel being Chapel. Overall it looks like you want to start getting your deck established, as it's not the best builder, then get this to patch up economy. So it's simple and teaches a few things. It's good.

Quote
Repast (spineflu)
Action, $4 cost.
Trash this. If you did, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and + $2.
The obvious thing to do here is compare this payload to gain a $5. It's going to be similar to Feast as an opener, but this is more interesting than it later in helping to set up a mega turn, and it's a nicer pickup with Workshop. If the vanilla were an Action in itself it would probably be worth $5.5 or $6, so about right. Yes, this is quite nice, and the base set lacks a one-shot yet it's a simple premise.

Quote
Lumber (xen3k)
Treasure, $2 cost.
$1
+1 Buy
When you play this, you may discard a Victory card for + $1.
The +buy is the big attraction here, over Silver. It also introduces kingdom Treasures, can be good for Mine to upgrade a Copper into once or twice, and sometimes Bandit steals one of your buys away, which can hurt. It's alright, but not that exciting.

Quote
Well (Fly-Eagles-Fly)
Action, $3 cost.
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards.
Well well well, which of this or Carpenter is the better card? They're very similar and teach the same thing about +buys. This doesn't increase hand size though, so it generally likes a greater money density for its +buy. It's pretty great at making Gardens decks more consistent, but otherwise I'd say Carpenter has the edge in the modern engine meta and feels a bit more interesting. This isn't bad though.

Quote
Lumber Mill (silverspawn)
Action, $3 cost.
+2 Buys
+ $2
Sure, this could exist fine, 1 extra buy won't increase the cost that much. It has an emphatic function. Is it interesting? For Gardens it's cool, otherwise it's very much like Woodcutter. You can use this, you may as well have it over Woodcutter for a little more spice, but it's still not that compelling.

Quote
Healer (NoMoreFun)
Action, $2 cost.
+1 Buy
+ $1
You may trash a card from your hand. If it's a Curse, + $3.
Putting a +buy on an optional trash card makes for a valuable engine piece. There's also a funny trick that may take a while for some beginners to twig: buy Curses to trash later. Not that they'll carry that lesson on to later expansions. There's countering Witch as well of course. Does the base set need more trashing? It's rather concentrated onto 2 cards (and Moneylender, Remodel sometimes), so probably. Nice one.

Quote
Chancellor (LastFootnote)
Action, $3 cost.
+1 Buy
+ $2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
It would probably have made a lot of sense to fuse the two $3 terminal Silvers into one card in the first place. But now there's a fair bit of top-of-deck synergy in 2E, is the Chancellor effect such a good fit? As in 1E, it's rarely useful. The card overall is quite nice - we know that from Messenger - and the vanilla makes sense with deck into discard to add more good stuff to a new shuffle. So like Lumber Mill, you may as well use this over Woodcutter and I would say over Lumber Mill itself, but it's still not adding a lot more.

Quote
Anchorite (LittleFish)
Action, $4 cost.
+2 Cards
If this is your only card in play, +1 Action and + $2.
Going mid to late game this might be interesting, how many of these do you put in your deck to improve the chances of proccing it, can you make use of several Moats to draw the rest of your deck? But as an opener, this looks rather automatic and probably explains why Donald hasn't made a card following this premise.

Quote
Silversmith (LordBaphomet)
Action, $3 cost.
+1 Buy
 + $1
You may trash a Silver from your hand for + $3. Each player (including you) may gain a Silver.
Difficult to tell if + $3 is enough of a bonus; you're only getting $1 more, so just the same as Woodcutter, yet if it were too high it could be centralising, everyone leeching on each other's Silversmiths for food. Perhaps a bit less interesting than the 4 Cards variant you had before (Council Room was a fair point), and as is I'd say it's on the weak side.

Quote
Gentleman (pubby)
Action, $2 cost.
Reveal a card from your hand and put it onto your deck. If it's an…
Action, +3 Actions;
Treasure, + $3;
Victory, +3 Buys.
I'm not finding many good uses for this, only setting up Vassal. The Treasure option is worse than a terminal Silver in having to top-deck a Copper, and the Victory option is for when you've drawn your whole deck with $16+ and you can handle a weak next hand. So a rather narrow card that's not too interesting overall.

Quote
Saprophyte (grrgrrgrr)
Victory, $5 cost.
Worth 1VP per card in the largest group of identical $3-costs in another player's deck (if it's a tie, count any one).
The premise of a Victory card affected by another player's deck could be made to work, though it has the potential to be political in 3+ player games if the group is so inclined. This one can escalate into being better than Duchy very easily; one player only needs 4 or more Villages, Silvers or Vassals. It doesn't feel too good in the base set, where new players are trying to learn what makes a good deck; it's more like an Empires card in its competitiveness, skill and tracking opponents' decks. So: it might be an idea worth banking and tweaking, but it doesn't fit this contest too well imo.

Shortlist: Carpenter, Vein, Repast, Well, Healer

It's a very close call between 3, so I'll name 2 runners-up:

Runners-up: Healer by NoMoreFun, Repast by spineflu

Winner: Carpenter by gambit05

Healer could work nicely; I just thought buying your own Curses to trash was one of its neater traits, yet that doesn't suit the Base set too good. In Intrigue maybe. Repast almost won it, but reading Donald's thoughts on Woodcutter again made me think the Carpenter was a tiny bit more compelling.
Congrats gambit, the reins are in your hands!
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2020, 12:37:59 am »
+1

Well judged Aquila, and congrats to gambit05 for the win! Your card looked like a winner.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2020, 03:00:42 am »
0

Thank you Aquila and congratulations to the runner-ups!

Before I start the next round I would like to give some insight about my thought process that lead to Carpenter. Most of the specifics I have listed in my original post.

In my playing group(s), when new Expansions (or sometimes fan-made cards) come in, before we play the recommended sets or even go full random, we pick 2-3 new cards and combine them with relatively simple cards from the Base set, and a round or two later also with Intrigue and Seaside cards. With this approach, the Base set is over-represented in such games, also simply because that box contains all the basic supply cards. During those games, we miss a cheap +Buy card more often than not.
I also thought about creating a card associated with Curses, because there are 30 in the box, but only one card that cares about them. I couldn’t find an elegant way, and rejected this possibility, but NoMoreFun has found one! Kudos for that! I also think that LastFootnote’s version would have been perfect for the official 1st Edition of the Base set, but unfortunately the real Chancellor and Woodcutter still exist and and some people are still playing with them.


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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2020, 03:15:53 am »
0

Contest round #2: Intrigue

(No surprise here.)

The criteria: Intrigue is about cards giving choices, Victory cards that do something and cards interacting with Victory cards.

While I mentioned in the post above that my playing group(s) often miss a cheap +Buy card in the base set, we don’t have a problem like this with Intrigue. So, from my point of view with Intrigue it is rather about designing a card fitting to the above described mechanics than about what is missing. If you think differently, and you design a card that doesn’t follow one or more of the criteria for a typical Intrigue card as I have listed above, please specify the reasons why your card is different.

Obvious no-goes: Card types introduced later in the official sets (e.g. Durations); tokens and mats; a lot more, but the list would be too long.

My criteria for judging your card:
- The above mentioned mechanics.
- Not overly complicated wording if not really necessary (don’t forget, we are dealing with the very first expansion here).
- Balance. I do what I can to figure that out, but please don’t be annoyed if I misjudge this one. I often produce some bonkers
  cards myself.
- Flavor is a bonus. Does the name of the card fit to its mechanics? Does it fit to Intrigue?

Good luck and have fun!

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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2020, 06:12:18 am »
0

Quote
Informer
$3 - Action
+$1.
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Put all victory cards and any one other card into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.

yup. it's yet another Scout fix.

Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2020, 08:47:17 am »
+1

Quote
Farmers Guild
$5 - Action-Victory
Discard up to 3 victory cards from your hand for +2 cards each. If any of them were Action cards, +1 Action.
-
2 VP
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 08:49:51 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2020, 11:03:08 am »
+1


Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2020, 12:16:18 pm »
+2

My entry: Fief. No, not thief; fief. A fief owned a manor and land, which the farmers would work on. Collect more land and bring more fiefs under your rule to get better rewards.
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2020, 01:23:50 pm »
0

Bluff Action
You and the player to your left both name a card. If either of you believe the other does not have the card they named, you may call them on it. You call first if you both wish to call. If nobody calls, +2 if you named the higher costing card. If someone calls and someone lied about their card, the person who didn't lie gains a gold. If both lied, then both gain a copper onto their deck
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2020, 02:39:44 pm »
0

Bluff Action
You and the player to your left both name a card. If either of you believe the other does not have the card they named, you may call them on it. You call first if you both wish to call. If nobody calls, +2 if you named the higher costing card. If someone calls and someone lied about their card, the person who didn't lie gains a gold. If both lied, then both gain a copper onto their deck

Are you serious? I have put that text in the card image generator. It produces a wall of text of 11 lines in a very tiny font size. That would be way too much for any Dominion card, let alone one for Intrigue.
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2020, 02:45:50 pm »
0

Bluff Action
You and the player to your left both name a card. If either of you believe the other does not have the card they named, you may call them on it. You call first if you both wish to call. If nobody calls, +2 if you named the higher costing card. If someone calls and someone lied about their card, the person who didn't lie gains a gold. If both lied, then both gain a copper onto their deck

Are you serious? I have put that text in the card image generator. It produces a wall of text of 11 lines in a very tiny font size. That would be way too much for any Dominion card, let alone one for Intrigue.
I'll move it to RCBI
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2020, 02:46:53 pm »
0

To be fair, the German version of Noble Brigand may be longer.

Edit: yup.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 02:48:07 pm by silverspawn »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2020, 02:47:33 pm »
+1


Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown. While your card concept would easily fit there or in later expansions, I think it is not a good choice for Intrigue.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2020, 02:55:08 pm »
0

To be fair, the German version of Noble Brigand may be longer.

Edit: yup.

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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2020, 02:58:07 pm »
0

The original version, however, was 10 lines plus the +1$ sign (as you can see in the link), which is longer than 10 lines without a +1$. The version I own also has 10 lines I believe. Apparently they cut it by 3 lines in a reprint.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2020, 03:04:58 pm »
0

The original version, however, was 10 lines plus the +1$ sign (as you can see in the link), which is longer than 10 lines without a +1$. The version I own also has 10 lines I believe. Apparently they cut it by 3 lines in a reprint.

I know, the text of Noble Brigand is terribly long and there are a few more cards like that. Just imagine, translating Bluff into German. That would probably need an extra 3 lines or so. Anyway, it is way too much for an Intrigue card that wants to win in a contest.
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2020, 03:53:11 pm »
+1

Quote
Impersonator - Action, $5 cost.
+ $1
Choose one: reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, set aside one of the Actions, discard the rest, then play the Action; or replay an Action card you've played this turn that's still in play.

I looked for things that were missing in the set, and didn't find any. Guess that's what happens when you make multiple choice cards. So I thought, if it's got everything in it and all in good balance, then an emulator would go in fine. This one has a 'choose one' mainly for functionality; if it appears early in the turn it can dig for an Action (a bit better than Peddler), or if later it can Scepter (similar to Throne Room with + $1).
There are combos I've seen with this. Secret Passage an Action to within range of the dig, or Replace gaining one. Digging or Scepter-ing Shanty Town or Diplomat can help them proc. Torturer chains with extra money.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2020, 04:50:19 pm »
0


Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown. While your card concept would easily fit there or in later expansions, I think it is not a good choice for Intrigue.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 04:52:32 pm by spineflu »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2020, 05:24:07 pm »
0


Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown. While your card concept would easily fit there or in later expansions, I think it is not a good choice for Intrigue.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.

Please read on the wiki about Crown http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Crown. It seems Donald and others were really excited about a novel Action-Treasure card, and that as late as Empires came out. Your card can totally avoid being a hybrid card with (almost) the same functionality in making it a pure Action card (or pure Treasure), e.g.:

Quote
Choose one: +1 Action and +$2; or gain* a card costing up to $4.

* you may add "you may" if you insist of course.

By the way, I thought it is better to make my criteria clear as early as possible and not after judging the cards.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2020, 05:33:28 pm »
0

Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
You could easily convert it to an Action card with "Choose one: +1 Action, +$2; or gain a card costing up to $4."
Either way, I think it should cost $4.

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2020, 06:03:42 pm »
0

Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
You could easily convert it to an Action card with "Choose one: +1 Action, +$2; or gain a card costing up to $4."
Either way, I think it should cost $4.

I think this is too strong for $4 but too weak for $5... the $5 version of this card already exists, and it's Charm. Charm isn't strictly better than this by any means, but it does the same type of thing in an overall more versatile and powerful way.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2020, 09:28:42 pm »
0

Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
You could easily convert it to an Action card with "Choose one: +1 Action, +$2; or gain a card costing up to $4."
Either way, I think it should cost $4.

I think this is too strong for $4 but too weak for $5... the $5 version of this card already exists, and it's Charm. Charm isn't strictly better than this by any means, but it does the same type of thing in an overall more versatile and powerful way.
Also special treasure cards only started in alchemy.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2020, 10:29:08 pm »
+1

Also special treasure cards only started in alchemy.

Harem
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2020, 11:02:04 pm »
0

Also special treasure cards only started in alchemy.

Harem
Whelp nevermind... can't believe I forgot about that.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2020, 02:03:47 pm »
+2

« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 02:05:04 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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D782802859

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2020, 02:12:33 pm »
0



Maybe this should trigger off of it having 2 or more types so it's less narrow. Minor nitpick, the color spit is upside down. The white should be above the green.
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D782802859

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2020, 02:24:02 pm »
+2



Couldn't resist the pun.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2020, 02:25:27 pm »
+2



Maybe this should trigger off of it having 2 or more types so it's less narrow. Minor nitpick, the color spit is upside down. The white should be above the green.
Hmm. I'm not sure that Intrigue needs cheap ways to KC a Torturer.
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Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

pubby

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2020, 02:50:21 pm »
0


edit: changed slightly
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 04:15:17 pm by pubby »
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2020, 03:15:00 pm »
0


So, this ability triggers every shuffle when I discard it from play? Super fast pile-outs + gardens synergy is what I'm getting. Not sure it needs +1 Action
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2020, 03:47:28 pm »
0

I'm pretty sure the intended effect was that it doesn't trigger on Clean-up. Definitely needs +1 Action then.

I think this is a reasonable fixed secret chamber, but storeroom is a fantastic fixed secret chamber.
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pubby

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2020, 05:00:40 pm »
0

Yeah it's not meant to work in clean-up. The +1 Action is so it can combo with shanty town, conspirator, minion, etc. I've changed it to be a feast-like effect on discard so that it doesn't drain piles so quickly.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2020, 06:34:00 pm »
+2



Quote
Heiress - $5
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

I wanted to make something similar to Baron in that Victory cards matter, but make it relevant late game. The main power level concerns I have are the Estate level rewards and the Action level rewards. I think $4 is appropriate, but could be mistaken.

Edit: Changed to $5.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 08:01:30 pm by Xen3k »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2020, 06:40:09 pm »
+1

Quote
Heiress - $4
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

I wanted to make something similar to Baron in that Victory cards matter, but make it relevant late game. The main power level concerns I have are the Estate level rewards and the Action level rewards. I think $4 is appropriate, but could be mistaken.
I like it, but I think as-is it should cost $5. Also, it'd be nice to have other victory cards do something with it too, so maybe:

Quote
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.
any other victory card, gain a treasure card costing up to $1 more than it.
(...or something)

If the Estate option was weaker (maybe +1 Buy, +$1) and you discarded the Victory card instead of just revealing, then I think it'd be good at $4. But I think I like it better as-is at $5.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 06:51:01 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2020, 06:44:11 pm »
+1

Quote
Heiress - $4
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

I wanted to make something similar to Baron in that Victory cards matter, but make it relevant late game. The main power level concerns I have are the Estate level rewards and the Action level rewards. I think $4 is appropriate, but could be mistaken.
I like it, but I think as-is it should cost $5.

Yeah, you are right. At $4 it compares to well against the likes of Lab and similar cards. Thanks.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2020, 11:05:11 pm »
0

Landscaper
Action/Victory - $3
Worth 1VP if you have more Estates than Landscapers
-
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2020, 03:11:46 am »
0


Deadline for submission in 24 hours (3:30 am Forum time).

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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2020, 04:42:57 am »
+3


Assessment Round 2 - Cards for the Intrigue expansion

Intrigue has 3 sub-themes: 1) Choosing something from 2 or more options, 2) Victory cards that do something, and 3) cards that do something with Victory cards. All cards submitted offer one or more of these mechanics (Chamber Pot does it indirectly, but that is fine), so I will not mention much about this criterion for the challenge. A minor point of the contest was to give your card a name that fits to its abilities and to the flavor of Intrigue. You have done that more or less successfully, although in a few cases (e.g. Farmers Guild), I wasn’t able to find the connection. Anyway, this criterion wasn’t decisive for the evaluation of any of your cards.
When I will mention “simple” in the assessments of your cards, this is meant to be a positive attribute.


Informer from LibraryAdventurer

$3 - Action
Quote
+$1.
Reveal the top four cards of your deck.
Put all victory cards and any one other
card into your hand. Put the rest back
in any order.

This is a cheap version of Scout and Patrol, with the important difference that a useful card (other than Action-Victory cards) can be put into hand a la Sage. Since it is itself terminal, it needs support if included in an Engine. On the other hand, it can keep and use a revealed Treasure, and a revealed Action card can be put back, if no further Action is available. This means that $5 can be reached pretty soon during a game. Informer allows some indirect sifting, but is like Scout still weak. A solid card with a fitting name, but the mechanic is not “breath taking”.


Farmers Guild from Jonatan Djurachkovitch

$5 - Action-Victory
Quote
Discard up to 3 victory cards from
your hand for +2 cards each.
If any of them were Action cards,
+1 Action.
----------------------------------
2 VP

This looks like a Shepard with VP tagged on it. Farmers Guild needs to discard Action-Victory cards for getting further Actions, or a Village that was played before. With a cost of $5 it is in tough competition, but is might be quite useful late in the game as it shows synergy with itself and other Action-Victory cards. Farmers Guild has relatively simple instructions, but is a bit too similar to Shepard and looks too powerful, i.e. a $5 cost card that produces 2 VP and has quite strong abilities.


Lumbermonger from spineflu

$5 - Action – Treasure
Quote
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a
card costing up to $4.

As I have said shortly after your submission, an Action – Treasure is not the best choice for a typical Intrigue card. The argument that this represents the missing combination of a dual card type is debatable (for an Intrigue card) and would only hold when the abilities of the two phases (Action and Buy) are clearly distinctive. However, mechanically Lumbermonger doesn’t need to be a hybrid card as the two choices can be put on an Action-only card just by adding +1 Action to the first choice. Even then, it seems to be weak when compared to Charm.


Fief from LordBaphomet

$5 – Action - Victory
Quote
+1 Action
+1 Card for each victory card in play.
------------------------------
1 VP

This is a guarantied cantrip (Great Hall) with the potential of being a Lab or more. For its cost likely not an opening buy, but it can be useful later in the game. It needs support (itself or other Action – Victory cards), but that is okay for a card providing VP and a high potential for becoming a strong card. It is simple in design, but for a $5 cost card, it’s use is a bit too limited even in Intrigue-only games.


Impersonator from Aquila

$5 – Action
Quote
+$1
Choose one: reveal the top 3 cards
of your deck, set aside one of the Actions,
discard the rest, then play the Action;
or replay an Action card you've played
this turn that's still in play.

This allows sifting, and then gives a choice between playing one of the revealed cards or one that is already in play. With the given wording, my understanding is that it would be able to play itself in an endless loop. Even if that was not meant to occur, it could be still done with 2 Impersonators; The name of the card is a nice choice as it fits to its abilities and to Intrigue. I feel that a modified second option would improve the card.


Golden Throne from grrgrrgrr

$5 – Action - Victory
Quote
You may play an Action card
from your hand twice. If it is
Victory card, play it another
time.
-------------------------
1 VP

A Throne Room variant with the potential for becoming really powerful. It shows some synergy with itself, but clearly requires other Action cards; so in that sense a typical Throne Room variant. It may get crazy with other Action – Victory cards, i.e. Mill and Nobles, but which Throne Room variant doesn’t do that? This looks like a typical Intrigue card that is useful in a lot of Kingdoms.


Rook from D782802859

$2 – Action
Quote
Choose one: +1 Action and
look at the top 3 cards of
your deck, discard any
number of them and put the
rest back in any order; or
+2 Cards.

Two weak options on a cheap card, which looks fine. It combines a Cartographer light and a Moat, i.e. either allows some non-terminal sifting without drawing or is terminal with limited drawing. The apparent self-synergy looks like a Rooky trap as playing two consecutive Rooks leads to the same hand size without any Action left. Without support this means drawing Treasures with a second Rook is the preferred strategy. Rook looks appropriate for a $2 cost card and has an innovative mechanic.


Chamber Pot from pubby

$3 – Action - Reaction
Quote
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards.
+$1 per card discarded.
----------------------------
When you discard this other
than during Clean-up, you
may trash it to gain a card
costing up to $6.

When played, this is a non-terminal Secret Chamber, which is quite strong. As a Reaction, it is a modified Tunnel that trashes itself for a strong card. The on-play abilities guarantee that Chamber Pot’s Reaction is always useful. Overall, it looks interesting, probably too strong, since gaining any card up to $6 is extremely flexible (Gold, Duchy, strong Action cards including Nobles), in any phase of the game and with any strategy. What I especially like is that the Reaction ability of Chamber Pot counteracts the misconception that new players often have in that the job of a Reaction is to prevent Attacks a la Moat. I would likely let it cost $4 to prevent a double-Chamber Pot opening.


Heiress from Xen3k

$5 – Action
Quote
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card
from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

A Courtier for Victory cards, fitting to Intrigue but also directly competes with Courtier (cost and design-wise). The drawing ability increases the likelihood for finding a suitable target and ensures that the card is not useless when no Victory cards are in hand. Heiress is quite useful early in the game for using untrashed Estates for payload and late in the game when the density of Victory cards increases. What I like here is that it does not show self-synergy. It emphasizes Action-Victory cards, but is also useful in any Kingdom because of the presence of the basic Victory cards needed as targets.


Landscaper from NoMoreFun

Action/Victory - $3
Quote
Worth 1VP if you have
more Estates than Landscapers
------------------------------
+1 Action, +$1.
Reveal cards from your deck
until you reveal a Victory card.
Put that card into your hand
and discard the rest.

This looks like an exotic reverse Duke. It is basically a non-terminal Copper that digs for a Victory card. Just from that point of view it looks counter-productive, except when finding Action-Victory cards and thus other Landscapers. If Estates can be trashed, it easily becomes a Peddler variant sifting through the deck; and in this case I would likely ignore the VPs of Landscapers for scoring at the end of the game. If considered to be worth buying in a given Kingdom, it requires a strategic decision about what to do with the Estates. This is definitively an interesting card with a name fitting to its mechanic.
Side note: The Action and Victory instructions should be swapped.


There are several cards I like and that would fit well to the Intrigue expansion, maybe with some minor modifications, but given the relative small pool of submitted cards, I refrain from naming too many cards. The cards that I found most exciting were those that offer clever new mechanics and a new version of the "reveal something for doing something" mechanic. So, my final assessment is:

Winner: Heiress from Xen3k.
Runner ups: Landscaper from NoMoreFun and Rook from D782802859.


Thank you all for participating!
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2020, 07:29:35 am »
0

Thank you to gambit05 for Judging and congrats to all the runner ups!

Contest round #3: Seaside

So, like the previous two contests the goal is to make a card that fits into the Seaside expansion mechanically and thematically. The main focus of Seaside design was to have cards that effect future turns. The big changes Seaside brought to Dominion are the Duration cards, Mats, and Tokens.

I will be judging the cards based on the above design goal of the set. New mats and tokens are welcome, but mats and tokens introduced in future sets are off-limits. I will be using Duration cards introduced in future sets as reference for design and power level evaluation, but will try to only judge it's inclusion in the set in relations to the other cards of the set.

I will try and start Judging 10/12/2020.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 06:53:56 pm by Xen3k »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2020, 07:52:48 am »
+4

Original Intrigue Design contest winner from 2013:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9563.0
Quote
Prefecture
Cost: $5 - Action – Victory
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. If you do, put it and one other revealed card into your hand. Discard the rest.
-
Worth 2 VP.
by Fragasnap


2nd Intrigue Design contest winner from 2016:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14737.0
Quote
Royal Tutor
Cost: $5 - Action
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card, leaving it there.
by Beyond Awesome (before Command cards were a thing)

Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2020, 10:49:27 am »
0

Here's my submission, a version of a Secret History idea.
Quote
Royal Expedition
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn, you may play an Action card from your hand twice.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2020, 02:46:11 am »
0

My entry:

Quote
Drawbridge
$3 - Action - Duration
+2 cards. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when another player plays an attack, its player may discard a card. If they don't, you are unaffected by the attack.

aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2020, 06:18:46 pm »
+3


Port Inspector - $4 (Action - Duration)
+$2
At the start of your next turn, you may trash or gain to hand a card from your Island mat.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on your Island mat.


Watch out! Your items are being checked at the port! If they meet the standards of our fair city, then you may have them; otherwise, they will be confiscated and destroyed. Even Smugglers get checked at this port.

A fun card that helps beat junking, while also letting your purchases always make the shuffle. Beware, however, that gaining too much at once will overwhelm the already busy Port Inspector, and he will only be able to give your items back one at a time - and he isn't always on duty! Granted, you may not actually want your victory cards at any point, in which case, the Port Inspector will keep them at the docks for later.

Also has fun interactions with Island, allowing you to reuse them, or set aside cards that you can have inspected later.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 06:27:57 pm by aladdinstardust »
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alion8me

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2020, 01:09:46 am »
0



Quote
Shipyard

+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $5.

Action - Duration
$4
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2020, 12:19:16 pm »
0

Looks like one of those weird Durations that only exists for the sake of nerfing, yet at the same time it is buffed via non-terminality.
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D782802859

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2020, 04:57:52 pm »
+2



Not really sure on the wording.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2020, 05:13:55 pm »
+1



Not really sure on the wording.

Conceptually elegant, but totally busted. +2$ +2 cards is reasonable at 5$, and this is actually better than that since you'll essentially always use +2$ now and then can't draw cards dead on the next turn.
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grep

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2020, 06:09:55 pm »
0

The missing Attack-Duration for Seaside:

Frigate
$5 - Action - Attack - Duration
Now and at start of your next turn:
+$1
Each other player discards down to 3 cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2020, 06:19:53 pm »
+1

The missing Attack-Duration for Seaside:

Frigate
$5 - Action - Attack - Duration
Now and at start of your next turn:
+$1
Each other player discards down to 3 cards.

The weird/interesting thing about this is that playing this card every turn is the exact same effect as playing a Militia every turn; but it still has to be more expensive.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2020, 03:52:54 am »
+2

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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2020, 05:35:12 am »
+1

Not to be a broken record, but this is also totally busted. This card is about as strong as Wharf (albeit less mass-able) and costs 4$. The fact that the penalty occurs after discard attacks means that those are a reasonable counter, but absent a militia, discarding 2 cards isn't a serious penalty for something with this kind of an effect. You'll just buy this every game.
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2020, 06:54:41 am »
0



Not really sure on the wording.

Conceptually elegant, but totally busted. +2$ +2 cards is reasonable at 5$, and this is actually better than that since you'll essentially always use +2$ now and then can't draw cards dead on the next turn.

I think it would be fine at $5, as it is nerfed by being a Duration. The card's effect is clearly stronger than Merchant Ship, but probably weaker than Wharf as it lacks +Buys.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2020, 06:59:30 am »
0



Not really sure on the wording.

Conceptually elegant, but totally busted. +2$ +2 cards is reasonable at 5$, and this is actually better than that since you'll essentially always use +2$ now and then can't draw cards dead on the next turn.

I think it would be fine at $5, as it is nerfed by being a Duration. The card's effect is clearly stronger than Merchant Ship, but probably weaker than Wharf as it lacks +Buys.

Yeah, I agree. Definitely weaker than Wharf.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2020, 08:59:44 am »
0

My submission:

Edit: Changed name and added image.



Ferryman
$4 – Action - Duration
Quote
Trash up to 2 cards from
your hand and put that
many Coin tokens on this.

At the start of your next
turn: Remove the Coin
tokens, for +$1 each.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 03:23:58 pm by gambit05 »
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2020, 10:53:30 am »
0

Needs a title
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Hail Satan, hail yourself!

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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2020, 03:44:52 pm »
+1

Quote
Shipbuilder - Action Duration, $4 cost.
Choose one: gain a card onto your deck costing up to $3; or gain a card onto your deck costing up to $5.
At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.
You're gaining a cheap card and a nice $5 in whichever order you like. The top-deck gaining can influence your decisions and make planning ahead a bit more defined.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2020, 07:41:32 am »
0

Not to be a broken record, but this is also totally busted. This card is about as strong as Wharf (albeit less mass-able) and costs 4$. The fact that the penalty occurs after discard attacks means that those are a reasonable counter, but absent a militia, discarding 2 cards isn't a serious penalty for something with this kind of an effect. You'll just buy this every game.
I totally disagree, without the extra Buy this would be significantly weaker than Smithy. As you pointed out, discarding at the start of your turn is like anti Duration draw.
Handsize attacks are in now way merely a „reasonable counter“, they make the card basically unplayable. After Militia hit, you can keep your Village at the start of your turn, and perhaps your village draws into your Steamboat. If it does not, the turn is lost (1 card does very little).
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2020, 08:18:08 am »
0

Handsize attacks are in now way merely a „reasonable counter“, they make the card basically unplayable. After Militia hit, you can keep your Village at the start of your turn, and perhaps your village draws into your Steamboat. If it does not, the turn is lost (1 card does very little).

I'm happy to just assume this is true. That doesn't really solve the problem. If a card is busted in 90% of cases but useless in 10%, this doesn't make the 90% any less problematic. You don't average the powerlevel, you still look at just the 90%.

And if we just assume no discard, you have a bonkers effect. The penalty of discarding 2 cards at the start of your turn seems significantly smaller than that of your opponent discarding a specific card now. In other words, even if you took away the buy, it would still be stronger than envoy, probably by quite a bit. Envoy is top tier $4s. Adding a buy to that is nuts.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2020, 10:25:38 am »
0

Handsize attacks are in now way merely a „reasonable counter“, they make the card basically unplayable. After Militia hit, you can keep your Village at the start of your turn, and perhaps your village draws into your Steamboat. If it does not, the turn is lost (1 card does very little).

I'm happy to just assume this is true. That doesn't really solve the problem. If a card is busted in 90% of cases but useless in 10%, this doesn't make the 90% any less problematic. You don't average the powerlevel, you still look at just the 90%.

And if we just assume no discard, you have a bonkers effect. The penalty of discarding 2 cards at the start of your turn seems significantly smaller than that of your opponent discarding a specific card now. In other words, even if you took away the buy, it would still be stronger than envoy, probably by quite a bit. Envoy is top tier $4s. Adding a buy to that is nuts.
You seriously underestimate the two huge liabilities of the card.

First, it is a Duration and in a deck-drawing engine it is only half as strong as its non-Duration counterpart.
This is a common fallacy. I thought that Mastermind is busted when I first saw it and it took me quite some games until I understood what I should have known since Seaside has been out, that it is often just a half-KC.

Second, that's we already went over above. Discarding at the start of your next turn hurts more than discarding at the current turn. It is trivial, you discard the worst 2 out of 5 (instead the worst 2 of out of 9 as it would be on the current turn).
For the sake of argument, let us invert the order of Embassy: "Discard 3 cards. If you did, +5 Cards."
I don't know the strength of this. Is it a $3? Does it suck at any price? No idea, all I know is that I would never ever prefer this over Smithy.


Now the card could very well be too strong, who knows. But it seems pretty clear to me that without a Buy it is definitely worse than Smithy and with a Buy it is weaker than Barge.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #84 on: October 11, 2020, 11:22:05 am »
0

For the sake of argument, let us invert the order of Embassy: "Discard 3 cards. If you did, +5 Cards."

Embassy is actually a great example. I would, in fact, buy this card over smithy (if it cost 4$). I would certainly buy one of them, maybe two, then switch into smithies.

But of course, this card is way weaker than Steamboat because it discards 3 cards, not 2. The thing to compare it to is "discard 2 cards, draw 5" which is way stronger than Smithy.

Does it being a duration make it worse? Barely, actually, since you only want two of them anyway (unless you have no chances to ever draw your deck).
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2020, 11:58:36 am »
0

Does it being a duration make it worse? Barely, actually, since you only want two of them anyway (unless you have no chances to ever draw your deck).
The notion that you only need two Smithy (variants) in a deck is utterly ludicrous, and even more so when they are Durations. In general, how many terminal drawers you need / you want / are optimal is extremly Kingdom and deck dependent.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2020, 01:25:46 pm »
0

I'm saying you only want two steamboats because you only want to play one per turn because otherwise your next turn is dead.

You could argue that this fact by itself makes the card weaker, which is technically true, but like the 'it's bad with discard attacks' argument, it misses the point. if a card is only ever bought twice, but it's so good that it's always bought first, that's still an issue.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #87 on: October 11, 2020, 02:08:44 pm »
0

Thanks, I totally missed that you only want to play one copy per turn.
It neatly illustrates what I already pointed out, how bad the discarding at the next turn is (relative to discarding at the first turn.

Add the collision issue (as we know from other cards, you don’t always manage to play one copy per turn) and the card becomes even weaker. Now I am fairly certain that it is fine at $4.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #88 on: October 11, 2020, 02:40:49 pm »
0

I am not saying anything about the cost of Steamboat or whether it is too strong or not, but a few things should be considered here.

First of all, this is supposed to belong to Seaside. Seaside has quite a lot of cards that enable some drawing at the start of next turn: Haven (indirectly), Native Village, Warehouse (no net drawing, but a good chance to find the best card when starting with a 1 card hand), Caravan, and Wharf; and Outpost and Tactician seem also to be good. So, from that point of view in a Seaside-only or -heavy game, Militia-type attacks should be handled well more often than not. In Kingdoms where there is no good compensation for such attacks, I wouldn't buy Steamboat.
Secondly, there are  a lot of deck inspection and digging cards around in all the expansions, likely more than Militia-type attacks.

Just my 2 Cents.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2020, 03:01:22 pm »
0

The militia thing is kind of a red herring since it's just not present in most games. But I take the point that delayed draw might mean you can play more than one Steamboat per turn. haven in particular would be a nice combo, you can set aside useless cards and then discard them to your steamboat.
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X-tra

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2020, 03:36:58 pm »
+2

Attempting something with the missing remodeler from Seaside:



A delayed remodeler to keep with Seaside's Duration cards spirit. Gaining to hand in a full new hand is pretty chill, not too overpowered, but like Cobbler, I believe this has to cost . I almost put a +1 Action vanilla bonus on this card.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 05:17:24 pm by X-tra »
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2020, 05:07:28 pm »
0

Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.



In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2020, 05:40:14 pm »
0

Ignoring the Fugitive-like effect for the other players (power level of a $4 and thus too much of a nerf), this is weaker than Embassy unless you discard 3 cards.
Perhaps it is sound at $4 or sound at $5 without the huge bonus for the opponents (although I doubt that this would buff it enough).

Discarding stuff before you draw is a cool idea. As long as you don’t get the power level totally wrong in the implementation.
Also, this has zero to do with Seaside.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 05:44:40 pm by segura »
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2020, 05:52:27 pm »
0

Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2020, 05:56:31 pm »
0

24 Hour Notice.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 05:58:34 pm by Xen3k »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2020, 09:11:09 pm »
+1

Importer
Action/Duration - $6
At the start of your next turn, gain a card costing up to $5
---
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put it into your hand or onto your deck.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 11:02:23 pm by NoMoreFun »
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2020, 09:50:00 pm »
+1




Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: Put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat; or put up to 3 cards from your Native Village Mat on top of your deck in any order.

This submission deals with three sub-themes of Seaside -- Gold Gaining, top of the deck, and mats. It may look like this combos excellently with Native Village except those cards together mean your hand size stays exactly same.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2020, 11:43:16 pm »
+1

Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: Put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat; or put up to 3 cards from your Native Village Mat on top of your deck in any order.

This submission deals with three sub-themes of Seaside -- Gold Gaining, top of the deck, and mats. It may look like this combos excellently with Native Village except those cards together mean your hand size stays exactly same.
Neat idea, but I think it might be weak for $5. Maybe have the second option be "Take three cards from your Native Village mat, putting one in your hand, and the rest on top of your deck" ?
Also, I didn't realize Seaside had a gold-gaining subtheme.


Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 11:53:02 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #98 on: October 12, 2020, 02:36:58 am »
0

Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.

When I started designing a card for this contest, my first thought was to create a non-Duration card that has some effects underrepresented in Seaside. Once I was done with it; I realised that it really didn't looked like a typical Seaside card (although it might fit well with the expansion) and rejected the idea. In contrast, I think with Waterfall there is a Seaside mechanic, but not immediately obvious. It is the discarding of the top card that other players can do; a nice counter to top-decking attacks such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag.

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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2020, 02:53:05 am »
0

Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.

When I started designing a card for this contest, my first thought was to create a non-Duration card that has some effects underrepresented in Seaside. Once I was done with it; I realised that it really didn't looked like a typical Seaside card (although it might fit well with the expansion) and rejected the idea. In contrast, I think with Waterfall there is a Seaside mechanic, but not immediately obvious. It is the discarding of the top card that other players can do; a nice counter to top-decking attacks such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag.
With Ghost Ship, you could keep your junk in your hand, knowing you can discard it to draw your better cards with Waterfall.
But it doesn't discard from the top of the deck, so I don't see how it counters Sea Hag more than any other draw card.

Anyway, it was just kind of a warning that Xen3k might not consider it a match for Seaside, but I'll let him be the judge of how well it fits.

silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2020, 03:40:06 am »
0


Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.
 
I shall not be heartbroken if it doesn't qualify, and I don't expect it to win either way since most people probably share segura's intuition here.

Alas! I think you're wrong. The thing that's most important in most dominion games is to play as many hand-size increasing effects as possible. That's why smithy is strong (it's one of them) and why trashing it's strong (lets you play then more often).

This card is bonkers for that. It's both sifting and draw together. Way stronger than embassy since it increases your hand size by twice as much.

(I do agree it doesn't need the penalty power-level wise, but I think it's a higher skill card with the penalty, and still  strong enough to be bought.)

And every set has several cards that don't fit the theme. Like warehouse.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #101 on: October 12, 2020, 09:21:09 am »
0

What the other payers get, i.e. Reverse Fugitive, is a $4:

+1 Card
+1 Action

Discard a card to draw a card

There is an old discussion about a Lab for $4 that gives each other player a Fugitive. The hunch was that it is too weak.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4701
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4007.msg97045#msg97045

Waterfall is quite similar, not to mention that Reverse Fugitive is often preferable to Waterfall, especially if terminal space is limited (or you are thin and can only discard good stuff before you draw in which case the card is just a Smithy).

So yeah, this is a weakish $5 without the Reverse Fugitive and totally underpowered with the Reverse Fugitive.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #102 on: October 12, 2020, 09:30:41 am »
0

called it
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #103 on: October 12, 2020, 09:30:45 am »
0

Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
The focus of the expansion contests is first and foremost on mechanics. The theme should ideally match, but that is secondary.
If the focus would be on theme, I could post a Night card named Pirate" that I play with and that uses Spoils and the Treasure Chest.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2020, 11:11:18 am »
0

Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
The focus of the expansion contests is first and foremost on mechanics. The theme should ideally match, but that is secondary.
If the focus would be on theme, I could post a Night card named Pirate" that I play with and that uses Spoils and the Treasure Chest.

I think Caravan fits the secondary theme of trade/commerce. Embargo, Smugglers, Warehouse, Caravan, Bazaar, Merchant Ship all fit this theme.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2020, 02:12:23 pm »
+1

Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: Put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat; or put up to 3 cards from your Native Village Mat on top of your deck in any order.

This submission deals with three sub-themes of Seaside -- Gold Gaining, top of the deck, and mats. It may look like this combos excellently with Native Village except those cards together mean your hand size stays exactly same.
Neat idea, but I think it might be weak for $5. Maybe have the second option be "Take three cards from your Native Village mat, putting one in your hand, and the rest on top of your deck" ?
Also, I didn't realize Seaside had a gold-gaining subtheme.

Nice idea. That makes it a Smithy+ (draws 2 cards and the third card you have some choice over), which seems great for a 3. And I could simplify the ordering... I'm going to do that!

Yeah, technically the sub-them is conditional gold gaining-- Explorer and Treasure Map (and to some extent Smugglers specifically allows up to 6). This sort of fits in that the Conditional clause is you need to play Sunken Treasure twice.

The only other "original" expansion that has two gold gainers is Hinterlands. Even with the new expansions, no other expansion has two action cards that gain golds, though there are events that do it. But at the time it was pretty cool like, wow I can directly gain golds and you feel like a Pirate in a way.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2020, 02:13:25 pm »
+1

Updated Submission



Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: take up to two cards from your Native Village Mat, putting one in your hand and the other on top of your deck; or put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2020, 05:58:32 pm »
0

Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2020, 07:41:53 pm »
+1

Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.

I completely forgot to put a price on mine so if it could just be taken out of the consideration? Thanks.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2020, 08:08:48 pm »
0

Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.

I completely forgot to put a price on mine so if it could just be taken out of the consideration? Thanks.

Fair enough. For what it is worth, I did like the effect. If you do care to complete it, be sure to share it!
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2020, 09:16:38 pm »
+4

Results for Contest round #3: Seaside

First I would like to say that this was quite a challenge as I am not sure I have a completely firm grasp on how a card being a duration effects the power level of a card. I tried to explain my reasoning to the best of my ability when relevant, but some of this came down to my preference in design and my expectations from Dominion.

Now, all entries except one dealt directly with the theme of "cards whose abilities affect future turns", and all of them do fit the flavor of Seaside. There are some really innovative uses of mats and one card that put those coin tokens to use. I think all the entries have merit, and what I do criticize is intended to be constructive. I had real trouble only picking only three entries, so made it three runners up. So, without further preamble.


Dispatch by X-tra
Quote
$5 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, trash that card and gain a card to your hand costing up to $2 more than it.

Seaside is lacking a remodeler, and this is a nifty one. I like this at $5, kind of like a suped-up Transmogriphy. No real criticisms here.


Drawbridge by LibraryAdventurer
Quote
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 cards. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when another player plays an attack, its player may discard a card. If they don't, you are unaffected by the attack.

With so many aggressive Attack cards in Seaside, another Lighthouse may be warranted. There is also a lack of quality trashers, and this is definitely a good one. As worded, if multiple opponents have a Drawbridge in play I would have to discard a card for each Drawbridge I want to bypass. A very cool effect.


Exploration Ship by D782802859
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
Choose one: +2 Cards or +$2. At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.

This is a cool mash-up of Merchant Ship and a nerfed Wharf. Overlooking the redundancy of including this in Seaside, I think it is an interesting case study to try and gauge what the appropriate price for Merchant Ship would be. This being a middle ground between the two, and both being $5, the obvious take is that this should also be $5. I do think this should be $5, but my reasoning is more in line with the options this provides to the player and comparing it to newer contemporaries such as Den Of Sin. Though Den Of Sin is a bit better being non-terminal and gained to your hand, just playing Exploration Ship as a terminal Silver with a Den Of Sin effect attached still feels like a $5 cost card.


Ferryman by gambit05
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand and put that many Coin tokens on this.
At the start of your next turn: Remove the Coin tokens, for +$1 each.

A very nice trasher that puts the coin tokens to good use. Seaside does lack an effective trasher and this is quite good.


Frigate by grep
Quote
$5 - Action-Attack-Duration
Now and at start of your next turn:
+$1
Each other player discards down to 3 cards.

Seaside has a lot of really aggressive attack cards, adding another is not unreasonable, but I would hesitate on doing that. The card is great though. I think it is priced correctly and the single coin a turn is appropriate as the consecutive Militias is pretty darn brutal. Good card.



Importer by NoMoreFun
Quote
$6 - Action-Duration
At the start of your next turn, gain a card costing up to $5.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put it in your hand.

This is the first of the Gainers from the submissions. These seems very strong, just with the gain-to-hand effect. While the Duration tag will slow it down, it seems to be an Artisan+. I think it would still be quite good even if it could only gain $4 cost cards. I think the gain-to-hand effect is the most interesting thing about the card, so I would hate to see that removed.


Port Inspector by aladdinstardust
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+$2
At the start of your next turn, you may trash or gain to hand a card from your Island mat.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on your Island mat.

Nice use of the Island mat. Another good defensive card to protect against the aggressively priced junking cards in Seaside. It is interesting how this slows down your deck if you are not careful. I do not know if I would get this early game if there were cheap +Buys in the game, but greening with a Port Inspector seems to be something I would want to try out. Probably going to try and bring this to my game group.


Royal Expedition by Jonatan Djurachkovitch
Quote
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn, you may play an Action card from your hand twice.

The duration Throne Room I never knew I wanted! I think it is safely priced at $6, but may actually be ok at $5 due to the potential misses that can happen on the second turn and the slowness of it. As is, I really like the clean and simple design.


Shipbuilder by Aquila
Quote
$4 - Action Duration
Choose one: gain a card onto your deck costing up to $3; or gain a card onto your deck costing up to $5.
At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.

Another gainer that can snag $5 cost cards, this time putting them on top of your deck. It is a really cool concept to have a single card gain two cards over the course of two turns, Gardens would love this card. I do think this is undercosted as-is. I could be gauging the nerf it being a Duration has on the card, but this appears to be an Artisan variant at least.


Shipyard by alion8me
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $5.

The final generic gainer submitted, and this seems more reasonable at $4. This is like an alt version of Cobbler or Feast without the self trashing. In addition to being slow you also have to discard a card to gain a card. This is perfectly reasonable as it is, in my opinion.


Steamboat by grrgrrgrr
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+5 Cards
+1 Buy
At the start of your next turn, discard 2 cards.

My first thought when I saw this was that it was a reverse Tactician. Now, Tactician gives more on the turn it triggers with the built in Village, but that comparison is still there, so seeing this at $4 is pretty surprising. Now I realize the drawback on Steamboat is pretty steep, but Tacticians can also be steep. I think Steamboat is a very Kingdom dependant card and in the right setup it is pretty bonkers. On average I think I would only buy a single one early to guarantee a nice 9 card double buy turn. If there were any hand-size Attack cards, I don't think I would get it. The design seems to really be leaning on the penalty of discarding two cards the next turn to balance its power, and I personally don't like this severe of a penalty as I would be afraid of turning the card into a noob-trap. The nice thing about Tactician is that it sets up a big turn that you can anticipate and plan out, Steamboat sets up a dead turn if you are not careful and that can feel bad. I personally would have liked this more at $5 drawing 4 cards and discarding 1 the next turn like a slow Council Room with a more manageable draw-back than current. As-is, I think it will be too cheap on average, and even at $5 its power level will fluctuate wildly based on the rest of the Kingdom because of that drawback.


Sunken Treasure by anordinaryman
Quote
$5 - Action
+2 Cards
Choose one: take up to two cards from your Native Village Mat, putting one in your hand and the other on top of your deck; or put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat.

Very cool terminal draw card that uses the Native Village mat for storage. The potential interactions with Native Vilalge is really interesting. I think this is priced right at $5 as it is not always a Smithy, but gains you nice things off your mat when it is.


Waterfall by silverspawn
Quote
$5 - Action
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +2 Cards per card discarded. Each other player may discard a card, to draw a card.

This does not really embody the "abilities affect future turns" theme of Seaside, and the filter role is being handled quite well by Warehouse (and Navigator I guess). This reminds me of a terminal Shepherd that allows you to discard more than Victory cards. I think the price at $5 is perfectly reasonable, being able to dig 6 cards deep is not to be scoffed at. I am not sure if the penalty of allowing each other player discard a card to draw is needed. Later in the game, especially if there is deck thinning in the Kingdom, I can see the possibility of it becoming more difficult to get the full effect from Waterfall.


Runners Up
Sunken Treasure by anordinaryman
Dispatch by X-tra
Ferryman by gambit05

WINNER
Port Inspector by aladdinstardust

I could have easily added a couple more or so to the runners up list! Thank you for participating!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 10:23:10 am by Xen3k »
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aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2020, 10:14:11 pm »
+2

Thank you to Xen3k for Judging! And congratulations to all the runners-up and submitters!

Contest round #4: Alchemy

I am actually quite excited to be judging this one, because I am one of those rare birds who enjoys this expansion.

The themes of Alchemy are Potion based cards and a focus on Action cards. Donald wanted to make cards that people would want multiple of since they were going to have a Potion in their deck - so lots of +Actions, cards that reward actions, and a Treasure that needs lots of cards to really shine. And apparently Herbalist. Hm.

I will be judging based on how well your card entices players to buy multiples, how it interacts with Actions (if it does), and I would also enjoy seeing ways in which your designs could make the Potion mechanic a bit more accessible.

I will give a 24-hour warning in 6 days and commence judging the following day.

Good luck to all designers!
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2020, 01:13:12 am »
0

In the future, when we've done all expansions we could continue with hypothetical crossover expansions, for example Adventures/Nocturne (night-reserve cards!), or Cornucopia/Hinterlands (when gain, if you have at least 5 differently named cards in play).
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #113 on: October 13, 2020, 01:46:50 am »
0

Here's my submission, might change it out later.
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 01:48:37 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2020, 04:45:59 am »
+1

My submission:



Astrologer
$3P – Action
Quote

+1 Action

Choose one: Return a
Potion from your hand to
          the Supply, for +3 Cards;           
or +1 Buy and gain a
Potion to your hand.

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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2020, 09:18:58 am »
0


Quote
Aonbarr • $4⚗ • Action
+4 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
You may return this to its pile for +2 Actions.
-
Instead of paying this card's cost, you may pay ⚗⚗; if you do, +1 Buy and +$2

an older card of mine but one explicitly for including in Alchemy. Gives a reason to have multiple potions. name is a mythological horse from irish mythology
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 09:05:50 am by spineflu »
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aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2020, 06:25:29 pm »
+1

In the future, when we've done all expansions we could continue with hypothetical crossover expansions, for example Adventures/Nocturne (night-reserve cards!), or Cornucopia/Hinterlands (when gain, if you have at least 5 differently named cards in play).

I just finished a set a little while ago called Dominion: Odyssey, which visits all the past sets and (most of the) mechanics. At first I thought those cards would fit perfectly for the theme of this thread, but then I realized that almost all of my cards overlapped sets. I think mixing expansions is super interesting, and it certainly opens up a lot of design possibility.
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herw

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #117 on: October 16, 2020, 01:35:21 am »
+1

Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 02:23:25 am by herw »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #118 on: October 16, 2020, 02:40:03 am »
+1

Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.

I think a better wording is:
Quote
You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and...

This avoids the cases when a player has a Potion or Silver in hand, but doesn't play it for whatever reason. The other players wouldn't know.
According to my understanding of the spirit of Alchemy is gaining a Gold a bit counter-productive. It would get more difficult to gain and chain Alchemist's Laboratory and/or to buy other cards. How about: "...for +1 Card and +1 Buy"?
+1 Buy seems to be underrepresented in Alchemy; and would fit with the somehow odd cost of Alchemist's Laboratory ($2P might be better anyway).
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herw

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #119 on: October 16, 2020, 03:15:16 am »
0

Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.

I think a better wording is:
Quote
You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and...

This avoids the cases when a player has a Potion or Silver in hand, but doesn't play it for whatever reason. The other players wouldn't know.
According to my understanding of the spirit of Alchemy is gaining a Gold a bit counter-productive. It would get more difficult to gain and chain Alchemist's Laboratory and/or to buy other cards. How about: "...for +1 Card and +1 Buy"?
+1 Buy seems to be underrepresented in Alchemy; and would fit with the somehow odd cost of Alchemist's Laboratory ($2P might be better anyway).

I don't want to change to  a +1 buy because it would be too near to your nice suggestion Astrologer and would have to have higher costs. So I stay with +1 Gold (historically the mainspring of Alchemists ;) ).
Why no +1 buy? I always play Alchemy with these basic cards:



Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and gain a Gold.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 03:26:27 am by herw »
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #120 on: October 16, 2020, 03:27:38 am »
+1

I've hardly ever played with alchemy, but here's something that seems to fit:
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Alchemy probably doesn't need more draw though.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #121 on: October 16, 2020, 03:59:53 am »
0

I don't want to change to  a +1 buy because it would be too near to your nice suggestion Astrologer and would have to have higher costs. So I stay with +1 Gold (historically the mainspring of Alchemists ;) ).
Why no +1 buy? I always play Alchemy with these basic cards:



Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and gain a Gold.

Honestly, I totally forgot that Astrologer gives an optional +1 Buy.
Despite that, I can't see what argues against +1 Buy in relation to your Fan-made Victory cards.
Also, keep in mind that this contest is about presenting a card that fits to the official Alchemy expansion, not to Fan-made cards that nobody else uses.
I am not sure about the English wording, i.e. whether it should be:
"...and to gain a Gold."

I've hardly ever played with alchemy, but here's something that seems to fit:
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Alchemy probably doesn't need more draw though.

That looks interesting.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:01:07 am by gambit05 »
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #122 on: October 16, 2020, 04:02:05 am »
0

It should be 'to' gain a gold.
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infangthief

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #123 on: October 16, 2020, 04:59:54 am »
0

Here's my submission, might change it out later.
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.

I think normally "Choose" means you can choose an option even if you then fail to be able to do it.
Is that the intention here? Can I choose the "trash a Treasure card" option, then say, oh I don't have any Treasure cards in my hand?
Or is the intention closer to Death Cart?
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herw

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #124 on: October 16, 2020, 05:16:46 am »
+1

ok, ok, ok ...

Alchemist's Laboratory

     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $2P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card and +1 Buy.

Maybe that the costs of $2P are too high? ... because you have to have potion or silver on your hand too.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 12:22:34 am by herw »
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #125 on: October 17, 2020, 12:52:59 pm »
+2



Quote
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to (P) more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.

My group does not play with Alchemy or any custom Potion cards, so this is gonna be difficult for me. Decided to go with something like Apprentice where it does not cost Potion, but does interact with the mechanic. It gives an alternate way to obtain Potion cards, but does not make it easy. Notably, I did not want it to be able to get rid of starting Copper, so it is weaker then most every other remodeler. Not sure if this is completely balanced, or something people who use Alchemy would want in the set, but I enjoyed working on it.

Edit: Changing it so that you can trash Copper. Not sure if that would make it too good.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 07:43:39 pm by Xen3k »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #126 on: October 17, 2020, 01:32:19 pm »
+2

School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand costing more than $0. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to ^ more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.
Works nicely with Apothecary, because you can turn your opening Estates into Apothecaries, and you're less worried than normal about having lots of Coppers. Its other good within-Alchemy Estate-targets are Scrying Pool and University.

Aside from that, probably a little weak - you've only got three targets in your starting deck, and trashing a good card from hand to get a better one in your discard pile has to be thought about carefully.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #127 on: October 17, 2020, 02:48:44 pm »
0

School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand costing more than $0. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to ^ more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.
Works nicely with Apothecary, because you can turn your opening Estates into Apothecaries, and you're less worried than normal about having lots of Coppers. Its other good within-Alchemy Estate-targets are Scrying Pool and University.

Aside from that, probably a little weak - you've only got three targets in your starting deck, and trashing a good card from hand to get a better one in your discard pile has to be thought about carefully.

Do you think removing the restriction requiring you trash a card costing more than $0 is warranted? I am mainly concerned of the potential to change Coppers into Vineyards or something. Not sure if that is something people would want to do, but still.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #128 on: October 17, 2020, 07:31:43 pm »
+2



Quote
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to (P) more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.

My group does not play with Alchemy or any custom Potion cards, so this is gonna be difficult for me. Decided to go with something like Apprentice where it does not cost Potion, but does interact with the mechanic. It gives an alternate way to obtain Potion cards, but does not make it easy. Notably, I did not want it to be able to get rid of starting Copper, so it is weaker then most every other remodeler. Not sure if this is completely balanced, or something people who use Alchemy would want in the set, but I enjoyed working on it.

Edit: Changing it so that you can trash Copper. Not sure if that would make it too good.

This does have an issue where having just this card in an otherwise no-alchemy game makes two of its options impossible to complete - no potion-cost cards makes for no potions in the supply. Otherwise, I'd say it's a little worse than most TfB cards, which isn't really the kind of thing you'd want in alchemy.

Lemme know if you wanna play a game or two on dominion.games with alchemy cards, get a little more used to them, I've got a subscription, just drop a dm.

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #129 on: October 18, 2020, 12:09:36 pm »
+1

Quote

Distillery
P - Action
+1 Buy
Trash a card from hand. Gain a Potion or a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Alchemy's missing Remodel, with a possibility to jump from Copper to $5-6 in two steps. +Buy shines when there are other Potion-cost cards in the kingdom.
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aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #130 on: October 18, 2020, 08:12:06 pm »
+1

24 Hour Notice!
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #131 on: October 18, 2020, 08:33:35 pm »
+3

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majiponi

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #132 on: October 18, 2020, 11:04:40 pm »
+2

Humanoid
cost $6P - Action - Duration
Set aside a non-Duration, non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to $4. At the start of each of your turns, play that Action, leaving there.

A Prince variant that always works. You don't have to worry a hand with no other Action. King's Courting is not so good ; you can never use King's Court for an expensive Action.
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herw

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #133 on: October 19, 2020, 01:05:23 am »
0

Alchemist's Laboratory

     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card.

I think it shouldn't be only a cantrip without potion or silver in hand. So you get always +1 Buy. Costs are now $1P.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 03:24:12 pm by herw »
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aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #134 on: October 19, 2020, 08:40:17 pm »
0

That's time in the round!

I will get to judging shortly!
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aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #135 on: October 19, 2020, 10:23:22 pm »
+3

Jonatan Djurachkovitch
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.

Three cards and an action is a very powerful ability, and +Buy is also super useful on an engine piece. It even trashes Coppers and eventually your Potion!
I imagine that in practice, this is a bit overpowered. I don't think you could ever really skip this on a board - it feels like Sauna/Avanto as a single card with +Buy.
Perhaps it could trash itself or a Potion instead of any treasure. I think that would make for some very interesting decision-making.

gambit05
Quote
Astrologer
$3P – Action
+1 Action
Choose one: Return a Potion from your hand to the Supply, for +3 Cards; or +1 Buy and gain a Potion to your hand.

Here is another $3P for three cards and an action, but with the Potion "trashing." Also has the option of +Buy, but at the cost of possibly junking yourself - though maybe it wins you the Vineyard split. I really like this, and would definitely like to playtest it. Seems both balanced and fun.

spineflu
Quote
Aonbarr • $4P • Action
+4 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
You may return this to its pile for +2 Actions.
-
Instead of paying this card's cost, you may pay PP; if you do, +1 Buy and +$2

The top part of this card seems certainly overpowered. I love the idea of returning a drawer for +Action, but even without that, +4 Cards and trashing is super strong. I think you'd probably need to bring that down to +2 Cards or up the cost by at least P.
The bottom part of this card is absolutely wild. And I love it. Gaining a card for two potions and then getting another buy and money is fantastic. Makes those double Potion hands something to actually shoot for. I really enjoy the creativity here.

Aquila
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

This is a very interesting. Double Potion cost is super tricky to pull off, but that is a very powerful ability, and it rewards you for having those extra Potions in your deck. I feel like you want multiple of these for sure, but you also want lots of Treasures. And, of course, it plays Treasures during your action phase, so shenanigans will occur from time to time (Capitalism loves this!) You could actually forgo the Treasures and just use this as a Lab, which gives the card versatility.
The only thing I might change is to remove the +Buy. A Lab with upside already seems powerful enough, though never having played a card costing PP, that +Buy might be fully warranted.

Xen3k
Quote
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to (P) more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.

For someone who doesn't play with Alchemy, you've made a very fine card! It is a little clunky that it gains Potion - maybe change that bit to "Treasure costing $4 or less?" Allows it to grab potions, but also Silver, Talisman, Quarry, etc. Makes it into a slightly different Mine effect if you trash Copper, but I think that's fine for a 5-cost.
The gaining of a Potion card is fantastic. I can already feel the excitement I would have when this and a Potion-cost card showed up together.

grep
Quote
Distillery
P - Action
+1 Buy
Trash a card from hand. Gain a Potion or a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Another interesting card, which also remodels. I like that it gets you to Province from Copper faster than a traditional Remodel. However, it isn't as good at trashing copies of itself, so there's balance there. The +Buy could be deceptively useful if you have enough other things going on.

D782802859
Quote
Alkahest - Action - $5
+3 Cards
The first time you play a Treasure costing $4 or more this turn, +$2.

A very interesting spin on making Potions worth $. The only downside is that you don't really want a lot of these, and it doesn't specifically tie into potions. It doesn't really fit into Alchemy in general, although I would love for this to be a real card. It makes a lot of expensive Treasures better, which I really like.

majiponi
Quote
Humanoid
cost $6P - Action - Duration
Set aside a non-Duration, non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to $4. At the start of each of your turns, play that Action, leaving there.

This is very cool, and certainly worth the 6P. I've always had a soft spot for Prince, so this is just the sort of card I'd love to have in a set. It's also a slightly better Captain, but it cost P more, so it should be. A simple and useful design. Nice!

herw
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card.

I appreciate all the work and thought you've put into this! However, I think your earlier version might have been more balanced. I am comparing this to Alchemist, which is a Lab with upside if you have a Potion. This is Lab with upside if you have a Potion or a Silver, and it costs $2 less. I understand what you mean about not wanting it to be a fairly useless card without a specific Treasure in hand, but I think the upside is certainly worth the gamble.

Alchemist's Laboratory $2P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card and +1 Buy.

This is the version I most prefer, and I think it would be a very fun card to play.



I am so glad that I can say with absolutely sincerity that you guys made some amazing cards here, and I am finding it difficult to choose a winner.
However, a decision must be made, so I'm going with:

Astrologer
by
gambit05


Runners-up:
I could probably just put "everyone" here, and it would be accurate.
But, concessions must be made for contests, so I will name the following:
Catalyst, Aqulia (I very much want to play this card.)
School Courier, Xen3k (Turning non-Potion cards into Potion cards is absolutely something I want to do now.)
Alchemist's Laboratory (version 2), herw (Not your official entry, but you posted it, and I really liked it.)

Thank you to everyone for submitting!!!!!
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #136 on: October 20, 2020, 04:45:15 am »
0

Thank you very much aladdinstardust for your efforts in judging a bunch of really nice Alchemy-based Fan cards. I had the feeling that many of them are worth being the contest winner and certainly interesting and fun enough to further work on them and play with them.  Congratulations to the runner ups as well!

I suggest we revisit Alchemy in this contest series, maybe after Dark Ages or Guilds, as the official Alchemy expansion was originally thought to be released much later than it actually was. Especially cards that don’t have a Potion cost themselves, but interact with such cards and/or with Potions look very interesting and in my opinion, a couple of them would be “required” for a fictive large Alchemy expansion.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #137 on: October 20, 2020, 04:57:46 am »
+2

Contest Round 5 – Prosperity

The Prosperity expansion has the following themes/mechanics: Treasure cards, cards that interact with Treasures, expensive cards, cards that give Victory point (VP) tokens. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Prosperity
There are a few more, i.e. “unusual” costs and non-attacking cards with player interactions. Feel free to incorporate any of those mechanics into your Fan card. Please avoid any mechanics introduced in official expansions released after Prosperity. Furthermore, a card giving choices a la Intrigue cards is totally fine (though not as the sole mechanic), a Duration would be out of place.

Criteria for judging:
1. Acts like a typical Prosperity card
2. Innovative concept
3. Fun to play with
4. Balanced

If you are not sure whether a certain idea or a detail of a card fits or not, don’t hesitate to ask when posting or before.

Deadline for submission will be some time on 27. Oct. 2020 with a 24 hours reminder before.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 04:58:54 am by gambit05 »
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majiponi

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #138 on: October 20, 2020, 10:38:38 am »
+1

Quote
Minister
cost $5 - Treasure
+$2
+2 Buys
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
---
When you buy this, play it.

Mint has an on-buy effect. An expensive Travelling Fair which you can expand. Let's start with Minister-Goons!
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2020, 12:46:05 pm »
+2

gonna bust out my fav underutilized component in prosperity, the trade route mat, for a bridge variant, because what's more on-theme for prosperity than making money go further?

Quote
Shipping Lane • $3 • Action
+1 Buy
You may gain a Copper to your hand. If you do, cards cost $1 less per Coin token on the Trade Route mat.
-
Setup: Add a Coin token to each Victory Supply pile; move that token to the Trade Route mat when a card is gained from the pile.

setup instructions are the same as trade route; given that i can't change the wording on Trade Route for this, when both are in the supply, you only do one coin token per victory pile.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 02:57:11 pm by spineflu »
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #140 on: October 20, 2020, 02:06:42 pm »
+7

Prosperity has big rebuilding, big throning,  various flavors of big money, but no big draw. Alas,

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GendoIkari

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #141 on: October 20, 2020, 02:10:17 pm »
+1

Prosperity has big rebuilding, big throning,  various flavors of big money, but no big draw. Alas,



Gives a needed new use for tokens (3 cards isn't enough for a new mechanic). And gives extra incentives to buy Provinces even though the game is more likely to be a Colony game. I like.
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majiponi

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #142 on: October 20, 2020, 05:57:40 pm »
+4

Prosperity has big rebuilding, big throning,  various flavors of big money, but no big draw. Alas,



Gives a needed new use for tokens (3 cards isn't enough for a new mechanic). And gives extra incentives to buy Provinces even though the game is more likely to be a Colony game. I like.

It needs to give incentives to end game.  KC-KC-RE-RE (+12vp) will be the optimal strategy too often.  Goons piles out piles.  Bishop needs fuel.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #143 on: October 20, 2020, 07:07:38 pm »
+1

Quicksilver
Treasure - $6
Worth $1
At the start of clean up, exchange a treasure you would discard from play for a treasure costing up to $6 more than it.

I think Mine would work better in Prosperity given the better treasures on offer in the set. So here's a super-Mine that can turn Copper into Gold or any of the other special treasures on offer, and Silver (and up) into Platinum. Yes this is very similar to "Ore" which I submitted for the "Fix Mine" competition.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #144 on: October 20, 2020, 11:00:49 pm »
0



Quote
Royal Foundries - $7
Action
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your hand costing less than it. If you would gain a card costing more than this, instead trash this to gain that card to your hand.

A non-terminal gainer, especially one that can trash itself for a Province or Platinum, seems like a card worth $7. I am not sure if this is too strong or not. It can certainly snow-ball your late game. I had a terminal version that gave an Extra VP token if you gain a VP card off it. Could change this out for that if this version is deemed too good. Feedback is welcome.

Edit: Adjusted the wording so in order to gain a card costing more than Royal Foundries you must trash Royal Foundries. My understanding is that if you fail to trash it due to any kind of tracking shenanigans you will fail to gain a card. Let me know if that fixes the issues presented below.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 05:52:52 pm by Xen3k »
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majiponi

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #145 on: October 20, 2020, 11:13:14 pm »
+1



Quote
Royal Foundries - $7
Action
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your hand costing less than it. If you gained a card costing more than this, trash this or the gained card.

A non-terminal gainer, especially one that can trash itself for a Province or Platinum, seems like a card worth $7. I am not sure if this is too strong or not. It can certainly snow-ball your late game. I had a terminal version that gave an Extra VP token if you gain a VP card off it. Could change this out for that if this version is deemed too good. Feedback is welcome.

Discard Colony for Platinum, revealing Watchtower to topdeck, trying to trash that Platinum, and fail. Is it broken?
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #146 on: October 20, 2020, 11:15:45 pm »
0



Quote
Royal Foundries - $7
Action
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your hand costing less than it. If you gained a card costing more than this, trash this or the gained card.

A non-terminal gainer, especially one that can trash itself for a Province or Platinum, seems like a card worth $7. I am not sure if this is too strong or not. It can certainly snow-ball your late game. I had a terminal version that gave an Extra VP token if you gain a VP card off it. Could change this out for that if this version is deemed too good. Feedback is welcome.

Discard Colony for Platinum, revealing Watchtower to topdeck, trying to trash that Platinum, and fail. Is it broken?

Would you not have to trash the Royal Foundries at that point? The wording on the "if you gain a card costing more than this" caveat is important, and if there are ways around it the card is pretty much a failure.

Edit: I would have the player just straight up trash the Royal Foundries, but I do not want to run into the same sort of issue on losing track of it.

Edit#2: Changed the wording in the original post. Hopefully this corrects the issues.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 06:14:28 pm by Xen3k »
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2020, 04:53:09 am »
0

Quote
Racecourse - Action, $6 cost.
+3 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, remove the token from its pile (if it's there) for +1VP per $1 the trashed card costs.
-
Setup: put a coin token on each supply pile.
This sets up a race to be the first to trash a card from each pile. It has to use tokens because of Lurker and Treasurer, and I figure it will be self-intuitive that this and trade route hold one coin token each on the Victory piles (the wording implies that to me, but I may be wrong).
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2020, 05:40:42 am »
+1

It needs to give incentives to end game.  KC-KC-RE-RE (+12vp) will be the optimal strategy too often.  Goons piles out piles.  Bishop needs fuel.

I'm not sure about this, but I don't expect that will commonly happen.

KC-RE is a 2-card combo, so it will appear as often as Bishop-Fortress. But even though Bishop-fortress makes more VP per turn and doesn't draw, I've never actually built the pure 4*Fortress 4*Bishop deck

In practice, if you have a deck of one province, RE's, villages and money, you will always benefit from buying more villages if nothing else. So one player will have at least 5 villages before both are incentivized to keep a static deck. But if you have 5 villages, you will want more than 2 REs since the chance to draw them dead is small and it increases your VP/turn. Then, if you have more than 2 cards drawing 4 and 5 villages, you'll reliably draw your deck and it won't really hurt you to add further green cards.

If  you actually don't have villages but just KC... maybe... but you probably want more RE's and more KCs if nothing else, then 2 piles are empty... I think you can construct a board where the optimum would be a stationary deck, but I think it'll be very rare. <5% of games where RE is present, maybe <1%.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #149 on: October 21, 2020, 08:02:06 am »
+2

Such supposed Golden decks cannot emerge organically. You must have had the payload to buy 4 $7s and 1 $8. Those Coins and Buys do not magically disappear from your deck and you certainly don’t trash all you payload just to repeat a loop while you likely can afford to buy a Colony or two Provinces per turn, while still being able to get the VPs.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 08:03:17 am by segura »
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #150 on: October 21, 2020, 08:30:15 am »
+4



A card that interacts with Prosperity's litany of expensive cards, and with expensive card in other sets.
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Vengil

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #151 on: October 21, 2020, 11:28:09 am »
0

"Heir" is a Good idea for an village.  :)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 11:32:39 am by Vengil »
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #152 on: October 21, 2020, 11:43:16 am »
+1



Quote
Bellows - Treasure - $4
$1
+1 Card
Trash a card from your hand. Discard one or more cards to gain a Treasure costing exactly $1 more per card discarded.

This design came when I was trying to fix Mine. It's another treasure remodeler! This one is a little bit more flexible, it allows you to turn any card into a treasure -- however you have to pay by discarding cards. It has the discard "one or more" such that it is weaker than Junk Dealer. (however, even without a minimum discard clause, it is worse at Junk Dealing because drawing a card is a lot weaker in your Buy phase than in your Action phase). A card like this should cost 2,4, or 5 so it fits in one of the gaps so you can gain it in between coppers, silvers, and golds.

I realized this fit will in Prosperity. It's a treasure that helps you gain more treasurers. When you're done with your loan you could turn it into a Talisman. When you're on to victory cards, you could trash your Quarry into a gold.

This card also let's you trash curses and coppers from your hand without gaining anything, since there aren't any treasures that cost 1 (without cost reduction).

Open to feedback. The one question is whether this should be "costs exactly" or "costs at least." At least means it doesn't need to have any minimum discard because it no longer can thin your deck. I do like that this card can non-terminally thin your deck though, something that Mine could use.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #153 on: October 21, 2020, 11:45:46 am »
+1



A card that interacts with Prosperity's litany of expensive cards, and with expensive card in other sets.

I like this a lot.


I also think it needs to draw only one card rather than all the ones that are expensive, otherwise the "hit" state is incredibly good.

I recommend that this discard the rest of the cards rather than put back in any order. This simplifies it a bit, and speeds it up. It also weakens it in the "miss" state, which I think is good since the "hit" state is VERY good (even if you take my suggestion, fetching one expensive card from top three is really good) It also means that a hand full of Heirs isn't useless with three cheap cards on top, and it behaves more like the occasional village.


« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 11:48:15 am by anordinaryman »
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #154 on: October 21, 2020, 12:03:39 pm »
+1

Discarding them strengthens the miss state since the cards of cost <5$ are weaker than average. But I think generally these types of cards topdeck as a way to nerf them, and specifically make them less mass-able.

The most relevant comparison here is Seer, which makes me think this is ok as-is.
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grep

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #155 on: October 21, 2020, 12:14:32 pm »
+1


Patrimony
$4 - Treasure
$1
You may discard a Victory card for +$2 and +1VP
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #156 on: October 21, 2020, 12:19:47 pm »
+1

Discarding them strengthens the miss state since the cards of cost <5$ are weaker than average. But I think generally these types of cards topdeck as a way to nerf them, and specifically make them less mass-able.

The most relevant comparison here is Seer, which makes me think this is ok as-is.

have it discard actions + treasures, topdeck the rest. make that nerf explicit.

LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #157 on: October 22, 2020, 01:03:27 am »
+1

Quote
Heirloom Jewelry
$6 - Treasure
+$2.
You may discard 2 cards for +$2.
This turn when you play a Gold, +1 Card.
For each 2 Golds you play, you next Heirloom Jewelry makes $4.

gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #158 on: October 26, 2020, 08:55:02 am »
0


Deadline for submission is tomorrow 27. Oct. at 9 am Forum time.

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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #159 on: October 27, 2020, 11:13:02 am »
+4


Assessment Round 5 - Cards for the Prosperity expansion

A note to my assessment first: I have mocked up all cards that didn't have an image and then evaluated them twice on two separated days and afterwards averaged the outcomes. For each criterion as listed 7 days ago, a score from 1-5 was given. Then I picked the top 5 cards and evaluated them again side by side. With this approach I noticed that Treasures scored a bit lower for the “Fun” aspect; I guess this is almost by nature, as it is more difficult to design an exciting only-Treasure card (a Hybrid wouldn’t fit well to Prosperity) than a powerful Action card. On the other hand, it is easier to design a Treasure that looks “Prosperity-like”.

Now to the individual cards:

Minister by majiponi

Minister
cost $5 - Treasure
Quote
+$2
+2 Buys
You may put your deck
into your discard pile.
---
When you buy this, play it.

Minister is a Treasure that immediately reminded me of the Chancellor/Woodcutter variants submitted by LastFootnote and silverspawn for the first round of this contests, i.e. Fan-made cards for the Base set, and more so even because of its name. Looking a bit closer, it is comparable in function and strength with Spices from Renaissance. The interesting part is the on-buy effect, which is quite unique (some Night cards allow this indirectly), but aside of Mint, the an on-buy effect looks rather like a Hinterlands mechanic. In the case of Minister, this mechanic pushes the current Buy phase with 2 extra buys and $2. This is helpful for getting lots of cheap cards when needed, e.g. Peddlers and later in the game it threatens a sudden ending by 3-piling. It looks versatile and balanced.



Shipping Lane by spineflu

Shipping Lane
• $3 • Action
Quote
+1 Buy
You may gain a Copper to your hand.
If you do, cards cost $1 less per Coin
token on the Trade Route mat.
-
Setup: Add a Coin token to each
Victory Supply pile; move that token
to the Trade Route mat when a card
is gained from the pile.

Shipping Lane extends the Trade Route mechanic, i.e. the first gain of a Victory card from any such pile in a Kingdom increases the strength of the card for all players. While Trade Route allows some trashing, Shipping Lane junks the player for the desired effect. Despite Kingdoms with attractive Victory cards, this may happen relatively late in the game. Then suddenly it can become interesting, although I expect it to be slow in most cases. Without efficient trashing available, I would prefer Trade Route because of its trashing ability, whereas with strong trashing, Shipping Lane could be the better choice. The card looks innovative as it uses a unique mechanic in a different way without complicating it. It can be fun to have it in certain Kingdoms, and to have an impact late in the game.



Royal Escort by silverspawn

Royal Escort
$7 – Action
Quote
+4 Cards
You may discard a Province, for +2 VP.

Royal Escort is an expensive card that provides VPs, two of the criteria for a typical Prosperity card. In addition, it fills a gap by providing strong draw, and thus looks like an innovative addition to Prosperity. To come to full power is not easy to achieve, when compared to other expensive Prosperity cards, such as Goons and King’s Court. This however makes sense since the benefit can be immense. While I would prefer those official cards for a first purchase of a high-cost card, I would certainly buy Royal Escort, and if it is just for its drawing capacity. Some people criticized that infinite loops are possible as there is no mechanic towards ending the game (e.g. +Buy, trashing, gaining). However, this is theoretically also possible with Monument (though at least it encourages buying cards by giving +$2), a much cheaper card which needs much less support. Overall, an innovative Prosperity-like card that is likely useful and fun to play with.



Quicksilver by NoMoreFun

Quicksilver
Treasure - $6
Quote
Worth $1
At the start of clean up, exchange
a treasure you would discard from
play for a treasure costing up to
$6 more than it.

The first thing I thought was “nice name, but whoa what is that?”. Quicksilver is an expensive Treasure that cares for Treasures and in that sense has the features of a typical Prosperity card. It offers a competitive Big Money strategy. Players going this route, want to hit $6 as fast as possible to buy their first Quicksilver, e.g. by opening with Silver and/or a strong terminal draw if possible. Once in deck, Quicksilver looks like a Money-Rat to me. It transforms Copper to more Quicksilver, Silver and Quicksilver to Platinum (if available). It can even exchange itself (not only other copies) for Platinum. I think it is very strong and players favoring Big-Money games would certainly like it. However, in my opinion it would be better balanced if it has some restrictions, e.g. exchanging Treasures from hand.



Royal Foundries by Xen3k

Royal Foundries
 $7 – Action
Quote
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your
hand costing less than it. If you
would gain a card costing more
than this, instead trash this to gain
that card to your hand.

Royal Foundries is an expensive Action card that functions as a Gainer in an innovative way and thus looks like a Prosperity card. One problem is that there are already two Prosperity cards with exactly the same cost, i.e. Expand and Forge, which have a similar function. I think Royal Foundries is quite tricky to play. It’s best use is probably to get an early Province (or Peddler), maybe Gold before that, and then gain all the nice Engine pieces, including more Royal Foundries. King’s Courting it could get wild, but that is the problem with King’s Court and not Royal Foundries. The fact that it is non-terminal even does not interfere with building and running a powerful engine and thus Royal Foundries is helpful at all stages of the game. Even when going for Provinces, it can be used for a self-sacrifice to get a final edge. The card looks interesting and fun to play with. Is it balanced? No idea, but for play testing, I would certainly start exactly with this version.



Racecourse by Aquila

Racecourse
Action, $6 cost
Quote
+3 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
If you do, remove the token from its
pile (if it's there) for +1VP per $1 the
trashed card costs.
-
Setup: put a coin token on each supply pile.

Racecourse is an expensive Smithy combined with a trashing ability that can provide VP tokens if the trashed card is the first of the respective Supply pile. This uses an innovative variant of the Trade Route mechanic; the instructions are clear by the way. Racecourse lives up for its name as it sets up a race for players to trash the first copy of a card from any Supply pile. One problem with this are Estates, which are the preferred target that give a considerable VP swing. It also looks like this could end up in a trash-orgy, as for example trashing a Peddler first, or just a Province, would give a whopping 8 VP that do not even clog the deck. Racecourse will likely often split a game in two parts. First, players try to gain as many different cards of value as possible and to trash them before their opponents do. Once that dust has settled, in the second step, players will build a regular engine with the help of the cards that survived the first phase. This could be fun for a few games, but could be too centralising in the long run. Giving +1 VP for 2$ of the cost (like Bishop does) could be a less radical option to consider; or even just +1 VP no matter what the card costs. Another, independent possibility is to exclude the basic Victory piles.



Heir by D782802859

Heir
$3 -  Action
Quote
+2 Actions
Reveal the top three cards
of your deck. Add the cards
that cost $5 or more to your
hand and put the rest back
in any order.

Heir is a cheap Action card that looks for expensive cards in the deck. It adds a nice and unused aspect to the themes of Prosperity. It functionally resembles a reverse Seer of Renaissance; easy to get, but more difficult to power it up. With strong trashing and/or deck inspection it could easily become a centre piece of engines. Looks like a fun card, helpful in a lot of Kingdoms and a great potential to shine. It is even helpful late in the game to fish all the expensive Victory cards before a Smithy or a second Heir draws some useful cards. Given its low cost I wonder whether just +1 Action would be better for balancing.



Bellows by anordinaryman

Bellows
Treasure - $4
Quote
$1
+1 Card
Trash a card from your hand.
Discard one or more cards to
gain a Treasure costing exactly
$1 more per card discarded.

Bellows is another Treasure with a Mine-type ability where trashing and Treasure gaining are separated. In this way, it thematically fits to Prosperity. My first impression was that this is a variant of Jack of all Trades of Hinterlands, with all the different abilities it has. It is a Copper that draws a card, which is helpful whatever that card is (allowing either playing, discarding for $, or trashing it). The mandatory trashing is interesting. Early on it is a welcome ability, but later on it can limit the usefulness of Bellows, especially since it interferes with getting the benefit from discarding. On the other hand, if a player does not want to use Bellows for a Big Money deck, they can use it for some trashing and can quite easily avoid gaining more Treasures by just discarding the required minimum of one card. A Big Money player on the other hand has to discard quite a lot for gaining valuable Treasures. I am not sure whether that was the intention, but I think it is a bit too weak for a competitive Big Money strategy.  Gaining the Treasure to hand could be an attractive alternative, maybe for a cost of $5.



Patrimony by grep

Patrimony
$4 - Treasure
Quote
$1
You may discard a Victory card
for +$2 and +1VP

Patrimony is a cheap Treasure that relies on Victory cards for its effect, i.e. to turn itself into a VP producing Gold. VP gaining looks a bit suspicious at first glance, though not spending the $3 would look quite crazy. Functionally, Patrimony is similar to Shepherd/Pasture from Nocturne, with the notable difference that Patrimony can permanently score VPs throughout the game. Since most games start with Estates, this will, almost risk-free, lead to a push towards high payload accompanied with VP scoring. It is certainly interesting and relatively unique and fits to Prosperity, but it appears to be too easy to make it more powerful than even Plunder, a $5 cost bottom card of a split pile from Empires.



Heirloom Jewelry by LibraryAdventurer

Heirloom Jewelry
$6 - Treasure
Quote
+$2
You may discard 2 cards for +$2.
This turn when you play a Gold,
+1 Card.

Heirloom Jewelry is an expensive Treasure that specifically interacts with another Treasure and thus thematically fits to Prosperity. Interestingly, to achieve the full benefit, it requires Gold, which has exactly the same cost and thus compete which Heirloom Jewelry. On the other hand, it should be fairly easy to get at least $3 out of Heirloom Jewelry, e.g. by discarding a Copper and an Estate. Without fast trashing, I would prefer this over Gold, but so would I for most cards costing $6 or and even $5. For a maximum effect, a player needs several Golds and Heirloom Jewelries, and even then, slimming the deck to play them more often interferes with the discarding part, which is not a bad thing balance-wise. In this respect, the +1 Card is also interesting, since it can provide fodder for the next Heirloom Jewelry or, if a Treasure was drawn, can be played immediately, at the risk of dead drawing a key Action card. In summary, it looks like an interesting concept that provides two possibilities to upgrade the card to a Gold+ without getting too crazy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I have mentioned at the beginning, I evaluated the cards 2-3 times. I always ended up with Royal Escort and Heir as the top 2 cards. Royal Escort scored a bit higher for “Prosperity like” as it is an expensive card that provides a new and innovative way for VP scoring, though Heir scored high for this criterion too. Heir scored better for “Balance”, not necessarily because I know that it is better balanced, but because Royal Escort has the potential problem of infinite VP scoring. For Heir it is difficult to figure out without play testing whether it is overpowered as is, but if there is a problem it could be easily nerfed. Both cards scored about equally well for the “Fun to play” part and both would be a welcome addition to Prosperity and exciting to have in other Kingdoms as well. Finally, both cards have an “innovative concept”, with a tiny edge towards Royal Escort. Among the other cards, there were three that followed the leading pack relatively close. I will name one of them, a Treasure.

My final decision:

Runner-ups:
3rd: Heirloom Jewelry by LibraryAdventurer

2nd: Heir by D782802859

Winner:
Royal Escort by silverspawn

Congratulations to silverspawn and the runner-ups and thank you all for participating and submitting interesting cards for this contest.

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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #160 on: October 27, 2020, 12:48:20 pm »
0

Thanks :-)

Alright, if we go in roughly chronological order, the next set is

Contest Round 6 – Cornucopia

It's not entirely clear what themes Cornucopia has. The obvious one is rewarding you for variety (Menagerie, Harvest, Horn of Plenty, Faregrounds), but there are also suspiciously many cards that discard (Hamlet, Fortune Teller, Farming Village, Horse Traders, Young Witch, Harvest, Hunting Party), and Hunting Party punishes variety for some reason. Then there's prizes. There is also some engine-friendliness going on.

I'm going to say discard is too boring, the anti-variety effect was probably an accident, and gaining prizes is not enough. Thus, to be eligible, your card has to

- reward variety (or punish lack of variety for your opponent if you find a way to do that); or
- be a cheap (4$ or less) pro-engine card; or
- be a Prize card rather than a Kingdom Card; or
- do more than one of the above

Among the official Kingdom Cards, the ones that would not qualify are Hunting Party, Tournament, Jester, and Fortune Teller. The others would be fine. And to be clear, you can do something that gains prizes, but it has to also do one of the above to qualify.

If you design a Prize card, you automatically qualify, but I strongly recommend thinking about how it would play out rather than just making a mechanic that sounds good. For example, you could argue that many boards are such that getting the first Prize is an auto-win (like if you can't trash); maybe that's not ideal. Does your Prize change that? I do think the existing set of Prizes could have been designed better.

Eligibility is binary, so you don't get extra points for being super-duper on theme. Among the card that qualify, I'll judge solely based on how fun to play with I think they are.

Deadline is Election day (Novermber 3d), with a 24 hour notice. Let's make dominion great again!
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #161 on: October 27, 2020, 08:57:45 pm »
0



Quote
Waitress - $4
Action-Reaction
Reveal any number of differently named cards from your hand and discard them. +2 Cards per card discarded.
--------
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to play it.

A terminal Shephard variant. The reaction can be triggered by playing a second Waitress, so it will always be relevant. However, I am not completely certain how playing a Waitress in response to discarding it to a Waitress will resolve. Feedback is more than welcome.

Edit: Changed the draw portion and bumped the price up. Now more of a terminal draw card than before.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 09:53:20 pm by Xen3k »
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2020, 06:45:07 pm »
+1

Quote
Mushroom Picker - Action, $5 cost.
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand; count the differently named cards in it. If there are 4 or more, you may trash a card from your hand. If there are 6 or more, you may gain a Gold.
I thought terminal draw, trashing and $5 costs were a bit lacking in Cornucopia. Revealing hand to count the different cards is the only real way to get draw to care about variety sensibly (the contest qualifying factor), the downside being it might be slow to resolve.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #163 on: November 01, 2020, 04:32:18 am »
+3

Something pretty basic, Harvest but with cards.

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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #164 on: November 01, 2020, 07:58:11 am »
0

Something pretty basic, Harvest but with cards.


clarifying question: i reveal estate, estate, copper, silver; do i discard one estate or two?

segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #165 on: November 01, 2020, 08:11:43 am »
+1

Only 1 Estate.
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pubby

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #166 on: November 01, 2020, 02:02:10 pm »
+2

Crops: 10 unique cards in the same pile, like Knights or Castles.

All 10 cards are $3 Action/Reactions with this text: 

Code: [Select]
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash it for [...]

The [...] bit differs for each 10 cards. They are:

Tomato Crop: +3 Cards
Eggplant Crop: +$2, +2 Buys
Pumpkin Crop: +3 Actions
Turnip Crop: Gain a Gold.
Onion Crop: Gain a Duchy.
Lettuce Crop: Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.
Apple Crop: Trash two cards from your hand.
Corn Crop: Gain a card costing $4 or less.
Beans Crop: Gain two Silvers to your hand.
Squash Crop: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1

The idea is that by discarding these crops, you're harvesting them. And they all have unique names, which synergizes with cornucopia stuff.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 02:03:24 pm by pubby »
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #167 on: November 01, 2020, 02:17:17 pm »
0

Is the order randomized or are the always in the order you've written down here?
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #168 on: November 01, 2020, 04:14:02 pm »
+1


My submission:

Samhain
$3 – Action
Quote

Play any number of Action cards
from your hand that you don’t have
a copy of in play.

   At the start of Clean-up, if at least 3   
cards played with this are in play,
you may trash this to gain any Prize
or a card costing up to $6.
 


Some rule clarifications:

The cards to be played by a Samhain do not have to be in hand at the time when Samhain was played, i.e. they can be drawn during the process, e.g. by a Smithy, which was played by a Samhain.

If a card leaves play after being played (e.g. Horse), another copy can be played. As those cards are not in play anymore, they do not count for the “3 cards in play” clause for gaining a Prize or something else.

If a card is played by Samhain that allows playing a card itself, the latter card is not counted as being played by Samhain and thus does not have the “no copy in play” restriction. Example: Samhain plays Vassal, which plays Village (after being discarded from the top of the deck). Village was not played by Samhain. Afterwards Samhain can play more cards if available and if no copies of them are in play.


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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #169 on: November 03, 2020, 09:49:23 am »
+1


Quote
Trapper • $3 • Action
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal your hand. Reveal the top card of your deck; if you do not have a copy of it in your hand, +1 Card; otherwise, discard it.

silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #170 on: November 03, 2020, 10:21:50 am »
+2

I'm actually going to extend the deadline for two days. I'm not in a mental state to be judge, and if others feel at all similarly, they won't be in a mental state to be creative. So it's roughly 48 more hours, but I'll post a proper warning tomorrow.

Also @pubby,

Is the order randomized or are the always in the order you've written down here?
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pubby

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #171 on: November 03, 2020, 10:47:06 am »
0

The order is randomized
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #172 on: November 04, 2020, 12:28:12 pm »
+1

Okay, submissions close in 24 hours.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #173 on: November 05, 2020, 01:00:47 pm »
0

Submissions closed.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #174 on: November 06, 2020, 11:21:58 am »
+3

Judging, #6: Cornucopia

Waitress by Xen3k                     

           

I have two issues with this. One is that it seems unreasonably strong. Remember how Menagerie is worth buying even if you can't discard anything, just because the chance of no duplicates in a 4 card hand is decent. This can commonly draw 8 cards (net +4 cards) the first time, and it'll draw 16 and more fairly often.

The other is the reaction. I'm not sure why it's there, but it plays out weirdly. You can play a Waitress using another waitress, which is a little confusing. It's usually not good because you'd rather draw first and have a larger hand, but it can be if you are short on actions. (Say you only have 2 Actions, not sure if you draw a Village, you can play W1, discard W2, use it to discard some more duplicates.)

It also has an odd interaction with  discard effects. Say you play Militia, I discard Card+Waitress, I play Waitress, discard 3 cards, draw 6. Do I discard back down to 3? I think the answer is yes, but I think it's a bad thing that this comes up. Also, if the answer is yes, that means you can then discard the next Waitress on that discard.

It's arguable, but I don't think all of that complexity is good.
Mushroom Picker by Aquila                                         
Mushroom Picker - Action - $5
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand; count the differently
named cards in it. If there are 4 or more,
you may trash a card from your hand. If
there are 6 or more, you may gain a Gold.
Like Waitress, I think this is busted. I wrote in my Spice Merchant article that almost every card that trashes without handsize reduction is among the strongest cards in the game. This card does that. Having 4 differently named cards in hand after drawing is pretty easy.

I predict that this would be the go-to thing on every board with a village, preferable over almost any other drawer. I also don't see having six cards be difficult, so it takes care of your payload automatically, and in a pretty strong way. I would also skip Forager and other weak trashers. Just getting a lot of those will thin the deck fine.

I think this might work better if the numbers were tweaked. 4 and 6 is too easy. Note that the wording allows you to get both effects when you have 6 or more.

In terms of the concept, rewarding you for variety after drawing might be a good idea.



Field by segura                             









Nice art. Feels in line with official cards.

Most terminal draw is auto-buy whenever it's the only way to build an engine, so it's more relevant to ask how it plays if you buy it than whether you do buy it. It wouldn't be terribly different from Smithy or Envoy, but it does make you want to buy different villages if possible, which is neat.

Powerlevel is pretty high, probably better than Smithy and Envoy, but it's within reason.

I like it. I don't think it has any big problems.


Crops by pubby

[] - Action - Reaction - 3$
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you discard this other
than during Clean-up, you
may trash it for [...]

The [...] bit differs for each
 10 cards. They are:

Tomato Crop: +3 Cards
Eggplant Crop: +$2, +2 Buys
Pumpkin Crop: +3 Actions
Turnip Crop: Gain a Gold.
Onion Crop: Gain a Duchy.
Lettuce Crop: Draw until
you have 7 cards in hand.
Apple Crop: Trash two cards
from your hand.
Corn Crop: Gain a card
costing $4 or less.
Beans Crop: Gain two
Silvers to your hand.
Squash Crop: +1 Card,
+1 Action, +$1



The floor here is a Dungeon without the duration effect, which is not great but occasionally strong enough to be bought by itself. The reactions are all over the place. Gaining a duchy is useless if you have it early. Getting +3 Actions is also not going to be good most of the time. Gaining two silvers right to your hand can be great if it's very early.

It's quite swingy, but feels in line with Knights or Boons. The overall powerlevel seems about medium, definitely not busted. One thing to keep in mind is that these trigger without requiring you to spend an action or play a card from your hand (you have to play another card to discard them, but not for the effect of the trashed crop). So +3 cards corresponds to a real 3 card advantage, which is like playing triple horse.

I like Boons, and I could see these being fun in a similar way. I will say that Corn Crop seems like it misses the power level a bit (seems worse than all the others). There's no situation in which buying a 3$ that then becomes a 4$ is great. I think it should just gain the card to your hand.

It also has the problem of drawing in response to Discard. I play Militia, you discard Tomato Crop, you draw 3 cards; I believe you still discard back down to 3. This is probably something Donald X avoided on purpose. But it's not as much of an issue here, with just two of the cards drawing.



Samhain by gambit05







I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get a Prize card this time. Instead, we have a novel way to gain prizes. Here, the condition is 'draw this with 3 unique action cards (that you haven't played before)', rather than 'draw this with a province'.

This is a tricky one to figure out. You now have to invest in engine-y stuff rather than victory cards to gain prizes. This probably changes the powerlevel of prizes. For example, the main reason why Followers is so strong is that it's often correct to keep buying green cards and not optimize your deck in Trounament games, and then, every Followers is a 2 point swing. Play three of them, and your opponent is an entire province down. That's pretty brutal. But in a proper engine, if you can just get rid of the Estate/Curse Followers is less strong (though still pretty strong). With this card, it might not be rare to see Princess picked first.

It's also an interesting effect in itself. It's always effectively +x actions, but x can be quite high. I tend to like games where making +Actions is difficult but doable.

One downside is that it'll be a dead card whenever the board doesn't allow for a good engine. On such boards, the direct effect is weak and the gaining effect too hard to get. But that's okay, not every card needs to be playable on every board.

I like this a lot. I think it may fix some of the issues with prizes, and enable some fairly unique decks.

However, I think your Rule Clarification contradicts the card as-is. 'Play any number of Action cards from your hand' strongly reads to me as 'choose any number of action cards from your hand, then decide an order, then play them in that order', not 'do this as many times as you want: play an action card that you don't have a copy of in play' (which I believe is what your rule clarification says).

The latter version is also much stronger, which I don't think is good.

Either way, wouldn't it be more elegant to say 'If you played at least three card this way, trash this to gain a Prize or a card costing up to 6$' instead of the second paragraph? I'm not sure why the delayed gain is necessary. It does make it so you can't play the Prize in the same turn, but is that important? The card looks like it has too much text right now (also why is there space at the top of the text field?)



Trapper by spineflu










On first glance, the floor is a Copper, the Ceiling is a Peddler. On second glance, the floor is a bit better since you can often play good cards from your hand first, if you want to play them, so the card discarded is probably below average.

I think it's an okay/good design. Powerlevel should be perfectly fine, on the weak side but totally playable. Don't see any big problems.

So... I do think gambit05 had the best idea, but I also think the intended version is not as good and it's sub-optimally worded. Therefore my verdict is,

Winner: Field by segura
Runner-up: Samhain by gambit05.
2nd Runner-up: Crops by pubby
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #175 on: November 06, 2020, 04:24:07 pm »
+1

Congratulations to segura! Many thanks to silverspawn for the extensive evaluation, and especially of the card I have submitted. Looks like you have put a tremendous amount of effort into judging all the cards. If you want we can discuss my card in a separate thread, as I don't want to dilute this thread with any side discussions. Not today, as I feel quite tired; it seems like this day lasted for 80 hours or so. But I am quite happy with the outcome of the contest.

 
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #176 on: November 07, 2020, 02:08:43 am »
+1

Here's the winner of the 18th WDC:
Quote

I guess it shows the premise works/looks convincing.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #177 on: November 07, 2020, 03:04:44 am »
+2

Thanks silverspawn!

What do you guys think, should we run a Hinterlands contest?
It is one of the mechanically most thin expansions, only the gain and Buy triggers are new.
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D782802859

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #178 on: November 07, 2020, 04:07:53 pm »
+1

Cards that discard your own cards and Victory interactions are also themes.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #179 on: November 07, 2020, 05:22:03 pm »
+1

i mean, nothing but convention says we gotta do 'em in order also - pick an expansion, any expansion

X-tra

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #180 on: November 07, 2020, 05:44:22 pm »
+1

Thematically it can also be fun to do stuff that falls into the "oversea" category. It's fun to be exotic. :)
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #181 on: November 08, 2020, 03:41:43 am »
+2

Contest 7: Dark Ages

Lots of stuff to do here: Ruins, Shelters, Spoils and trashing over trashing.
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majiponi

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #182 on: November 09, 2020, 03:12:40 am »
+2

Contest 7: Dark Ages

Lots of stuff to do here: Ruins, Shelters, Spoils and trashing over trashing.

Red Army
cost $5 - Action - Attack - Looter
+$3
Each other player may discard a card with multiple types from their hand. Otherwise, they gain a Ruins.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 09:07:17 am by majiponi »
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #183 on: November 10, 2020, 09:20:56 am »
+2

Quote
Shambles - Action Looter, $4 cost.
+2 Actions
Either play a Ruins from your hand twice, or one in the Supply twice leaving it there. If you played a Ruined Library, discard a card. If a Survivors, +1 Card.
At Clean-up, you may discard a Ruins to exchange this for a Digsite.

Quote
Digsite - Action, $0* cost.
+2 Cards
You may play a Ruins from your hand.
Return this to your hand.
(This is not in the Supply.)
It's a Village with a random effect, maybe that's a bit of fun in itself. It can also upgrade into a draw that returns to hand. Like Asper's Town/Road but more complex; it used to give Spoils as well since you don't need to track repeated gains of them, but do I want to make it even crazier with Champion?

Also added optional play Ruins from hand to Shambles, for when Cultist empties them out.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 12:06:45 pm by Aquila »
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #184 on: November 10, 2020, 10:09:02 am »
+3

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grep

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #185 on: November 10, 2020, 12:11:24 pm »
+1

Discarded. See my new submission below


Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 05:37:53 pm by grep »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #186 on: November 10, 2020, 02:34:46 pm »
0


Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
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grep

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #187 on: November 10, 2020, 02:58:06 pm »
0


Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
I was considering this variant: "You may gain a Ruins into the hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice. You may trash that card to gain a Spoils", but too many "you may" makes it ugly.
What about this: "Gain a Ruins into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice and then trash it. If you did, gain a Spoils."
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GendoIkari

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #188 on: November 10, 2020, 03:18:16 pm »
+1


Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
I was considering this variant: "You may gain a Ruins into the hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice. You may trash that card to gain a Spoils", but too many "you may" makes it ugly.
What about this: "Gain a Ruins into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice and then trash it. If you did, gain a Spoils."

That last version seems a lot weaker than the original; it can't be used as a normal Throne Room.
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #189 on: November 10, 2020, 03:43:07 pm »
0


Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
I was considering this variant: "You may gain a Ruins into the hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice. You may trash that card to gain a Spoils", but too many "you may" makes it ugly.
What about this: "Gain a Ruins into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice and then trash it. If you did, gain a Spoils."

That last version seems a lot weaker than the original; it can't be used as a normal Throne Room.
I think the most recent version should be compared to Procession.
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pubby

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #190 on: November 10, 2020, 05:06:38 pm »
+2

« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 07:50:07 pm by pubby »
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #191 on: November 10, 2020, 05:48:41 pm »
+2



Quote
Ragman - $3
Action - Looter
+2 Cards
You may play an Action card costing less than this from your hand. If it is a Ruins, trash it for +1 Action.
-
When you gain this, gain 2 Ruins.

An Imp crossed with a Death Cart. Plays similar to Lackeys with the limited number of Ruins it adds to your deck, but can be supported with the starting Necropolis and/or cheap cantrips. Can cause issues if you load up on too many of them as you cannot play the more appealing expensive cards or other Ragman with it. I could always bump up the cost to $4 and specify it can only play cards costing less than $3, but didn't really want to deal with Bridge shenanigans. More than welcome to criticism and feedback.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 07:21:25 pm by Xen3k »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #192 on: November 10, 2020, 06:18:05 pm »
0


Both go on top of deck.

Needs Looter type. And I believe by the rules, Ruins goes on top of your deck first and then the other action card on top of that, but people won’t know that immediately, so needs clarification.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #193 on: November 10, 2020, 06:29:02 pm »
+3


Quote
Restore • $5 • Action - Looter
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.
Choose one: Gain a Silver; or gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card.
-
When this is trashed, each player (including you) gains a Ruins to their hand.

For all its focus on the trash, Dark Ages doesn't have a straightforward flexible remodeler for the card you gain - sure, it's got Altar, where you turn ∀ into a $5; it's got Procession, but that's a fixed +$1 remodeler; it's got Rats, where you turn ∀ into Rats*; and it's got Gravedigger, where you expand Actions only; and it's got Rebuild, which turns games into boring - but nothing that turns ∀ into ∀+$1 (or less! you decide! run down piles!).

I considered having it gain a Spoils instead of Silver, but i think Silver will be better what with Feodum in the same set (plus, it makes it so you still have to deal with junk when Silver engine-detrimental). It's on-trash effect is designed for interaction with Knights, or self-interaction as a sort of Messenger-style nonattack attack. It's nonterminal, in the vein of Rebuild. And it gets you out of the $1 hole that Remake/Upgrade/other +$1 remodelers put you in, which could be problematic in Poor House games.


*


Update: made changes that anordinaryman suggested.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 11:44:13 am by spineflu »
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #194 on: November 12, 2020, 01:51:13 am »
+1


Quote
Restore • $5 • Action - Looter
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it cost $0, gain a Silver; Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card.
-
When this is trashed, each player (including you) gains a Ruins to their hand.

For all its focus on the trash, Dark Ages doesn't have a straightforward flexible remodeler for the card you gain - sure, it's got Altar, where you turn ∀ into a $5; it's got Procession, but that's a fixed +$1 remodeler; it's got Rats, where you turn ∀ into Rats*; and it's got Gravedigger, where you expand Actions only; and it's got Rebuild, which turns games into boring - but nothing that turns ∀ into ∀+$1 (or less! you decide! run down piles!).

I considered having it gain a Spoils instead of Silver, but i think Silver will be better what with Feodum in the same set (plus, it makes it so you still have to deal with junk when Silver is a stop card). It's on-trash effect is designed for interaction with Knights, or self-interaction as a sort of Messenger-style nonattack attack. It's nonterminal, in the vein of Rebuild. And it gets you out of the $1 hole that Remake/Upgrade/other +$1 remodelers put you in, which could be problematic in Poor House games.


*


Love this design. For simplicity, consider "Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Silver; or gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card." This change does not impact the power level that much (the only difference is now you can turn shelters/poor house into silvers) and I think the simplicity is worth it.

The on-trash mechanic is very interesting cool direction.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #195 on: November 12, 2020, 11:42:57 am »
0


Quote
Restore • $5 • Action - Looter
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it cost $0, gain a Silver; Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card.
-
When this is trashed, each player (including you) gains a Ruins to their hand.

For all its focus on the trash, Dark Ages doesn't have a straightforward flexible remodeler for the card you gain - sure, it's got Altar, where you turn ∀ into a $5; it's got Procession, but that's a fixed +$1 remodeler; it's got Rats, where you turn ∀ into Rats*; and it's got Gravedigger, where you expand Actions only; and it's got Rebuild, which turns games into boring - but nothing that turns ∀ into ∀+$1 (or less! you decide! run down piles!).

I considered having it gain a Spoils instead of Silver, but i think Silver will be better what with Feodum in the same set (plus, it makes it so you still have to deal with junk when Silver is a stop card). It's on-trash effect is designed for interaction with Knights, or self-interaction as a sort of Messenger-style nonattack attack. It's nonterminal, in the vein of Rebuild. And it gets you out of the $1 hole that Remake/Upgrade/other +$1 remodelers put you in, which could be problematic in Poor House games.


Love this design. For simplicity, consider "Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Silver; or gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card." This change does not impact the power level that much (the only difference is now you can turn shelters/poor house into silvers) and I think the simplicity is worth it.

The on-trash mechanic is very interesting cool direction.
that's a good simplification and doesn't change the card too drastically. I made those changes.

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #196 on: November 12, 2020, 03:45:47 pm »
+1

Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #197 on: November 12, 2020, 03:57:50 pm »
+1

Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.

I disagree that it is weaker than upgrade usually. Often turning a copper into a silver non-terminally is better than just trashing a copper, especially when you have something to do with those silvers (restore them into <4 cards!) Also, in the end of the game, it can turn 5-costs into duchies, which Upgrade cannot.  Upgrade struggles on trashing ruins when there's no 2-cost cards. Restore can handle them. The flexibility alone makes it on-par with upgrade, even without the +1 card. Restore might be a weaker 5, but I think it'd be imbalanced at 4. It can non-terminally turn coppers into silvers, (and do a lot more) making it a lot stronger than Mine. I know Mine is a weak 5, but it still shows that the right cost for this is 5.

If spineflu wanted it to cost 4, I think they would have to get rid of the silver choice and just make it "gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card." But I think it's better as 5. And as it stands right now, you can still trash a Restore into a $5 card.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #198 on: November 12, 2020, 04:37:08 pm »
+2

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #199 on: November 12, 2020, 05:29:23 pm »
0

Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.
i dont agree because its definitely stepping on vanilla remodel's toes for strictly better early game (copper->silver, etc) (likewise trading post or other silver-centric trashers). i see where you're coming from but it would be too good at $4.

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #200 on: November 12, 2020, 05:41:51 pm »
+1

Heavily modified Warlord Throne


Quote
Vulture
$4 - Action - Reaction - Looter
+$2
Gain a Ruins into your hand. Play it twice and then trash it.
-
When another player trashes a card, you may discard this to gain a Spoils into your hand.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #201 on: November 12, 2020, 11:48:49 pm »
+2

Heavily modified Warlord Throne


Quote
Vulture
$4 - Action - Reaction - Looter
+$2
Gain a Ruins into your hand. Play it twice and then trash it.
-
When another player trashes a card, you may discard this to gain a Spoils into your hand.

Compare to Bard - way too strong
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #202 on: November 13, 2020, 12:51:14 am »
+2



Quote
Dissect - Action - Looter - $4
Trash a card from your hand. Choose a different thing per $1 it costs: trash a card costing less than it from the Supply; trash a card from your hand; gain a Spoils; gain a Silver; play the top Ruins in the Supply twice leaving it there.

How about a Scrap for the Dark Ages? All of the 5 options for this are Dark Ages specific --trashing a card from the Supply or your hand is great when there are on-trash benefits; Spoils and Ruins are Dark Age exclusives, of course; then there's Silver gaining, of which is a minor theme of Dark ages (beggar, squire, feodum).

This is a pretty strong estate trasher - turn an estate into a Silver and a Spoils is awesome. Or Turning it into a Spoils and trashing another card from your hand is also good. The problem is that when you're playing Dark Ages, it means there's less of a chance of having estates. There's checks and Balances with this card.

Astute readers may realize that Ruins likely costs less than the card you trashed -- so you can Trash an estate to trash the top ruins in the hopes that the one below it is the Ruins you desperately want to Throne Room. The "trash from the Supply" is slightly hard to trigger than it seems. In order to trash a Fortress from the Supply (yay-- free fortress!) you'd have to trash a 5-cost card. And if you trash a 5-cost card, you have to pick all the options which means trashing another card in your hand as well. So there's some check and balances here, though they are subtle.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #203 on: November 13, 2020, 03:23:04 am »
+1

Heavily modified Warlord Throne


Quote
Vulture
$4 - Action - Reaction - Looter
+$2
Gain a Ruins into your hand. Play it twice and then trash it.
-
When another player trashes a card, you may discard this to gain a Spoils into your hand.
is there a reason you gain the ruins to your hand? seems like an unnecessary step when things like innovation exist.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 06:50:40 am by spineflu »
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #204 on: November 13, 2020, 04:31:16 am »
0

I'd scrap the reaction from vulture
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #205 on: November 13, 2020, 05:32:37 am »
0

Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.
i dont agree because its definitely stepping on vanilla remodel's toes for strictly better early game (copper->silver, etc) (likewise trading post or other silver-centric trashers).

Not really. IMO the preferred use of Remodel in the early game is usually trashing Estates, which Remodel can turn into $4 cards (including more Remodels) but Restore can only turn into $3 cards.
So Restore is worse at upgrading Estates (or even Shelters) than Remodel, but better at upgrading Coppers. It has the advantage of being nonterminal, but after the early game you usually don't want more Silvers, and Restore can't turn Golds into Provinces like Remodel can. Therefore I'd also try it at $4.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #206 on: November 13, 2020, 07:12:17 am »
+1

I think Restore would be terribly weak at 5$. It's 2$ worse than Mine on-play if used on Coppers, which is a big deal, and Mine is quite underwhelming for a 5$.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #207 on: November 13, 2020, 09:13:46 am »
+1

I think Restore would be terribly weak at 5$. It's 2$ worse than Mine on-play if used on Coppers, which is a big deal, and Mine is quite underwhelming for a 5$.
terminality matters here

segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #208 on: November 15, 2020, 10:12:44 am »
+2

Results for the Dark Ages contest

Red Army by majiponi
Is this just Mountebank as Looter? No, Red Army, or any other Attack or Duration or what other more-than-one-type card in the Kingdom also become Moats.
This feels power-level-wise on the point, i.e. not as overpowered and centralizing as many other junkers.
RUNNER-UP


Shambles/Digsite by Aquila
This has several problems.
First, would you really buy a Ruins and exchange Shambles to get a reloadable Moat? Nah, that's not worth it.
Second, emulating the Ruins on the top is a cool idea. Not so cool if you don't really do what the Ruins says.
I totally understand why it is mechanically necessary to nerf Ruined Library and buff Survivors but it is just too messy.


Crusade by silverspawn
I love $5 Smithies+ that are conditionally non-terminal. I don't have much to say about it, this looks fine and balanced.
RUNNER-UP


Plague Doctor by pubby
It is obvious but it has to be said, this is crazy if there are Actions that cost more than $5.
Imagine being able to play Possession or Prince at T4!
Otherwise this looks pretty good.


Ragman by Xen3k
This is hard to judge without playtesting but my hunch is that this is bad if there are no $2 Actions.
Lab nets +1 Card, but Ragman is on-gain -2 Cards. Best case is that you hit both Ruins during the first two plays of Ragman.
Then, averaged over the gain and the two plays, Ragman was a Village plus the vanilla effect of the 2 Ruins. But the on-gain junking is worse than the extra draw later for cycling reasons.
And that's tge best case which ignored the matching risk.
So no, I don't think that this is any good. I like it more than Death Cart though.


Restore by spineflu
Lots of discussion about this one. I cannot fathom when I would ever pick this over any other $5 trasher and would go even further: it it costed $2, I can imagine situations in which I would prefer Raze over this.
Both Upgrade and Transmogrify draw (Transmogrify doesn't draw but gains to hand and thus pseudo-draws) whereas this only floods you with Silvers.
If you want Silver, the Trade family of cards/landmarks is better at that (either you get more Silvers or you get the Silver to hand).


Sacrifical Lamb by D782802859
Another Upgrade variant, substituting Upgrade's draw for 2 Coins and a nice reaction.
With its biblical theme, it doesn't have any Dark Ages vibes though.


Vulture by grep
I liked Warlord Throne, that was a cool TR variant. But on to the Vulture. There are 4 options:
+ - $5 power
+2 Cards + - $5 power
+2 Actions + - $4.5 power
+2 Buys + -  $3.5 power
+ with Survivors - $2 power

So at the first glance, it looks OKish. It's the Ironmonger story, a random effect which you have no control over should be stronger than a deterministic effect.
But the Ruins run out, you can only play Vulture 10 times in the game. I don't know whether the timer on the card is intentional. The Reaction seems to indicate an "out" in case the Action part of it becomes dead.
So to buff it the Ruins should be put on the bottom of the pile or discarded and if the Ruins pile is empty it is shuffled.


Dissect by anordinaryman
I cannot add anything to the analysis that anordinaryman already provided. This is a thinking man's card with lots of subtle stuff going on.
RUNNER-UP



RUNNER-UPS: Red Army by majiponi, Mountebank as Looter done right
Crusade by silverspawn, the Smithy with the self-looting DoubleLab option
Dissect by anordinaryman, the less vanilla-ish Scrap variant
WINNER: Crusade by silverspawn. Did I say that I love Smithies that can be non-terminal? I also love self-junking.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #209 on: November 15, 2020, 10:45:27 am »
0

Thanks :-)

Crusade is actually a variant of a card from my old expansion. It was "+2 Cards, reveal your hand, if at least half of it is copies of crusade and cards that cost 0$, +1 Action" for 4$. It got playtested and I thought it was alright, definitely didn't break the game, but I've never found a wording for counting cards that cost 0 and itself that didn't sound weird or ambiguous, so now I made a version that didn't didn't count itself.

Contest 8: Guilds

Guilds is easy: Coin tokens and overpay. All entries should do one or the other or both. I personally think there's a ton of design space left to explore with overpay in particular.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #210 on: November 15, 2020, 12:51:36 pm »
0

I personally was always surprised that there wasn't an overpay that converted coins to coffers.

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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #211 on: November 15, 2020, 01:17:05 pm »
+2


Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you overpay (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.

rationale: Guilds lacks a fancy victory card. I wanted to do something where overpay works a little differently - not too out there/crazy, but different enough from existing cards, on the level of how stonemason cares about potion overpay but herald doesn't. I also thought it'd be interesting to give a small rebate for not overpaying - after all, $5 for a flat 2vp isnt a great price when duchy exists.

thematically, it ties "prosperity" to "guilds" by giving a use to the $7 turn - something that, at the time, only expand/forge/bank used. Might also be interesting as a Dominate style megaturn finisher, if your deck can handle that much green.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 03:25:18 am by spineflu »
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #212 on: November 15, 2020, 01:42:41 pm »
0


Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you spend (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.
Wouldn't it be "for every overpaid..."
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #213 on: November 15, 2020, 01:52:38 pm »
0


Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you spend (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.
Wouldn't it be "for every overpaid..."
sure

gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #214 on: November 15, 2020, 03:53:19 pm »
+1

My Submission:



Grand Lodge
$2+ – Action
Quote
Discard any number of
cards for +$1 each.
----------------------------
When you buy this, you may
overpay for it. For each $1
you overpaid, +1 Card at
the end of this turn.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #215 on: November 18, 2020, 02:16:38 am »
0

I personally was always surprised that there wasn't an overpay that converted coins to coffers.



For me it looks like the on-buy effect of converting $1 to Coffers is quite strong. This may be okay when the normal ability is a bit weaker. In addition, also giving Coffers here seems like this card can produce a flood of Coffers which can be unfunny.


Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you overpay (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.

Is "round down" intended? Wouldn't this mean overpaying $5 gives 3 Duchies? Could be okay, just asking.
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Gubump

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #216 on: November 18, 2020, 02:25:29 am »
+2

Is "round down" intended? Wouldn't this mean overpaying $5 gives 3 Duchies? Could be okay, just asking.

/ rounds down to 2 Duchies...
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #217 on: November 18, 2020, 02:31:39 am »
0

Is "round down" intended? Wouldn't this mean overpaying $5 gives 3 Duchies? Could be okay, just asking.

/ rounds down to 2 Duchies...

You are right! I don't know what I was thinking...
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #218 on: November 18, 2020, 03:19:37 am »
+1

Quote
Royal Appointment - Victory, $3+ cost.
2VP
-
When you first buy Royal Appointment on each of your turns, if the previous turn wasn't yours: you may overpay for it. Take another turn after this one drawing 1 card per $1 overpaid for your hand (instead of 5).
It will be tiny text, but I can't think of anything better to attach the overpay bit on to. If you're sacrificing $ for extra turns, then your deck is already good.
You buy your first one in the turn for $3, and you get an extra turn with 0 cards in hand; is that an issue?
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #219 on: November 18, 2020, 04:02:37 am »
0

Quote
Royal Appointment - Victory, $3+ cost.
2VP
-
When you first buy Royal Appointment on each of your turns, if the previous turn wasn't yours: you may overpay for it. Take another turn after this one drawing 1 card per $1 overpaid for your hand (instead of 5).
It will be tiny text, but I can't think of anything better to attach the overpay bit on to. If you're sacrificing $ for extra turns, then your deck is already good.
You buy your first one in the turn for $3, and you get an extra turn with 0 cards in hand; is that an issue?

Maybe something like this:
Quote
When you buy this, you may overpay for it.
If the previous turn wasn’t yours, take another
turn after this with +1 Card per $1 overpaid.

I don't know whether it is better to leave the "(instead of 5)"; or perhaps (last line) "...after this, starting with +1 Card..." may do it.

Edit: I just saw this question:

Quote from: Aquila
You buy your first one in the turn for $3, and you get an extra turn with 0 cards in hand; is that an issue?

Shouldn't be a problem as you cannot overpay by $0:

Quote
Players may choose not to overpay, even if they have extra coins, but cannot choose to overpay by $0; to overpay, a player has to actually pay more than the cost.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Overpay

« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 04:23:13 am by gambit05 »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #220 on: November 18, 2020, 07:44:06 am »
0

(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card (or reveals they can't). If they discarded an Action or Treasure costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

I think I'll snip a bit and switch back to a +3 Card version:
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+3 Cards.
The player to your left reveals the top card of their deck. Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card (or reveals they can't). If they discarded an Action or Treasure costing at least $3, they get +1 Coffers.

I made it more likely to give out Coffers to keep it from being too strong with +3 Cards.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 08:33:31 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #221 on: November 18, 2020, 08:08:20 am »
0

(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals1 the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card2 for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card3. If they discarded an Action or Treasure4 costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

1 Maybe, discards is better?
2 I think this needs "from your hand"
3 ...and this needs: "(or reveals they can't)".
4 How about: If it's an Action or Treasure...
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #222 on: November 18, 2020, 08:17:36 am »
0

(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals1 the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card2 for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card3. If they discarded an Action or Treasure4 costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

1 Maybe, discards is better?
Why?
2 I think this needs "from your hand"
3 ...and this needs: "(or reveals they can't)".
You're right. And the card was wordy as it was, and this is going to make it too wordy. I need to decide which part to cut...
4 How about: If it's an Action or Treasure...
Then it would look like it refers to the revealed card whether they discarded a copy or not.

(EDITed my entry)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 08:24:45 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #223 on: November 18, 2020, 08:55:14 am »
0

(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals1 the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card2 for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card3. If they discarded an Action or Treasure4 costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

1 Maybe, discards is better?
Why?
2 I think this needs "from your hand"
3 ...and this needs: "(or reveals they can't)".
You're right. And the card was wordy as it was, and this is going to make it too wordy. I need to decide which part to cut...
4 How about: If it's an Action or Treasure...
Then it would look like it refers to the revealed card whether they discarded a copy or not.

(EDITed my entry)

1 It was just a suggestion. It depends on what you intend to occur when multiple Gangsters are played.
4 "...discards a copy of the revealed card (or...). If it's..." For me it looks like it refers to "discards". Anyway, your wording is probably less ambiguous.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #224 on: November 19, 2020, 07:32:58 pm »
+1



Quote
Gong Farmer - $2+
Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, you may trash a non-Victory card from your hand.

Similar to Doctor in that it trashes when you buy it, but it is different in that it does not continue to trash cards. Works better (on buy) mid game when you have enough money to overpay and still keep copper in hand to trash. Honestly, I was having some trouble coming up with a card design but stumbled upon the term "Gong Farmer" and had to use it. Not sure about power level. Feedback is welcome.
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majiponi

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #225 on: November 20, 2020, 09:11:22 am »
+3

Atelier
cost $5 - Action
+1 Coffer
Remove any number of tokens from your Coffers. For each token removed, gain a card costing up to $4.
---
When you gain this, +1 Coffer.


EDIT: removed overpaying effect. Let's enjoy grabbing a pile.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 10:38:09 pm by majiponi »
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grep

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #226 on: November 20, 2020, 01:12:39 pm »
+4

Atelier
cost $4+ - Action
+1 Coffer
Remove any number of tokens from your Coffers. For each token removed, gain a card costing up to $4.
---
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, +1 Coffer.
The overpay option is probably OP: you can stock all the unused $ into Coffers (compare to Pageant which is quite a strong Event and only stores 1$)
Gain for Coffers is an easy way to empty a pile, extremely devastating with Highway. I would fix it by allowing to gain differently named cards
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #227 on: November 22, 2020, 06:54:00 am »
+1

24 hour notice. Get your action cards in while they're hot! That doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #228 on: November 22, 2020, 10:29:33 am »
+1

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grep

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #229 on: November 22, 2020, 11:15:54 am »
+5

I'll try to jump into the leaving train.
Quote

Caravel
$5 - Action
Reveal the top 3 cards from your deck. +1 Coffers per Treasure card revealed.
You may play one of the revealed Action cards. Discard the rest.

Clarification: the rest of the revealed cards are not discarded until the played card is resolved. This is intended to somewhat weaken the power of a chain of Caravels.
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #230 on: November 22, 2020, 11:24:05 am »
+1

Guildmaster
Action-
+2 cards.
For every 2 action cards you have in play, +1 coffer. If you have no action cards other than this in play, + and trash this.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #231 on: November 23, 2020, 07:08:53 am »
+4

Judgment Day

I've put the non-image cards into images this time; makes formatting easier and I see how much text the card has. Btw, it's Coffers, not Coffer, and vanilla bonuses are always uppercase.

       
Grand Lodge -- gambit05

Hey, this is the same effect I've just used for Rice Paddy in the WDC thread.

I think it's a great idea!  8)

My idea for the top half was: let's make it a dead card so you're penalized for buying it all the time. Your idea seems to be: let's make it something that works together with the bottom part. I think this demonstrates beyond a reasonable doubt that you're a much nicer person than I am.

It does also have a penalizing effect, though, since you can't really make use of having more than one copy of the top effect.

Runner-up

Milliner -- D782802859

A different spin on Throne Room. No phantom +Action, but easier to use.

The effect is pretty unique and quite elegant. That said, though I don't think it's obvious, I suspect this is probably pretty busted. I've playtested a similar card which had a phantom -1 Action -- which is to say, it allowed you to take cards back into your hand as an effect, requiring you to spend an additional Action to play them. To make it non-awful if you only had 1 Action, you could alternatively top deck it. It was quite strong.

This compares a bit too favorably to Band of Misfits in particular. The effect is probably better, and it doesn't stop working when piles run out.

I like the overpay effect. Overall, this narrowly misses Runner-up status (there are a bit too many of them).

Caravel -- grep

Interesting. Is there any other card that encourages a mixture of Action and Treasure cards in dominion? I'm not sure there is.

For every junk card revealed, this discards a bad card. For every Treasure Card, it gains +1 Coffers. Furthermore, if it hits at least one Action card, you gain +1 Card, +1 Action. This is the best bonus, so you want to hit an Action card, but preferably not more than one.

I suspect this is a bit on the weak side, but I like the effect a lot.

Runner-up.

Banker -- Doom_Shark

As you mentioned, this is a pretty obvious idea. I think the execution is fine. This should be a perfectly reasonable card.

Principality -- spineflu

Interesting idea. So, a few price points: we have 7$ for 5VP (2 cards), 9$ for 8VP (3 cards), 11$ for 11VP (4 cards), 13$ for 13VP (5 cards), and 15$ for 15VP (6 cards). As comparison, Colony is 11$ for 10VP and Dominate is 14$ for 15VP.

So, the card compares not-great to bigger Victory cards. This is probably a good thing since you don't want to Duchy flood every game. The non-overpay part makes it an interesting alternative to Duchy in the late game, and it also helps setting up one big turn.

I like it. it's clever and the numbers seem reasonable.

Runner-up.

Gongfarmer -- Xen3k

Interesting Vanilla Bonus.

If you want to trash coppers with this, it's effectively 1 per 2$ overpaid, since you can't play the coppers from your hand. This makes it less attractive early. There's also the thing where the vanilla bonus and the on-buy do the same thing, so each makes the other less important. I like it; it seems clever. It's neat how it's especially good at trashing curses or ruins.

Runner-up

Atelier -- majiponi

If there are no other ways to gain coin tokens, you effectively gain 2 cards costing 4$ the first time, and 1 after that. This is on the weak side for a card costing 5$, but you'd still buy it. You can also consider it a workshop where you pay an extra 2$ to gain 1 coin token, which is not that bad.

If there are other sources of Coin tokens, you can go empty a pile real quick. Hard to know how it players since no official card does that, but it's not obviously unfun to me. I like it as an experiment.

Runner-up

Guildmaster -- LittleFish

I'm pretty sure this card is busted. It's not rare to play a gazillion Action cards in Dominion, and this card is just bonkers as payload. Won't be rare to gain 5+ coin tokens. There is a bit of a conflict here where the vanilla bonus  makes you want to play the card earlier, to draw stuff, and the lower effect at the end, but I don't think it's enough. You would probably buy this even if it didn't draw any cards. Consider how easy it is to get +2 Cards, +2 coin tokens with this, which is supposedly strong at 5$.

Royal Appointment -- Aquila

Some minus points for too much text here, especially since it is possible to phrase this such that it's at least one line shorter.

The effect is... interesting... in strong decks, you will definitely buy this every non-extra turn. Hard to say how fun it will be, but not a bad idea.

Gangster -- LibraryAdventurer

Unfortunately for you, I'm not a fan of very swingy attacks like Swindler or Mountebank. This feels like that. If this flips a village, it can nuke your turn; the compensation of 1 Coffers doesn't make that significantly less bad.

Also, this wording confuses me. The way I think it should work is that each player other than you (including the one who revealed the card) discards, but the wording seems to suggest that everyone other than the player to your left discards. I'm going to assume it's the former.

It also gets some minus points for too much text.

Final Verdict:
2nd place: Principality
1st place: Caravel

Caravel does a concept that I really think should exist, and it seems well-executed and well-worded.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #232 on: November 23, 2020, 08:27:04 am »
0

Many thanks for your efforts, silverspawn. Congratulations to grep for winning, spineflu for the second place and thanks to basically everyone else for participating.


Hey, this is the same effect I've just used for Rice Paddy in the WDC thread.

I think it's a great idea!  8)

Hey, I hope you don't think I haven stolen your idea.

Quote from: silverspawn
My idea for the top half was: let's make it a dead card so you're penalized for buying it all the time. Your idea seems to be: let's make it something that works together with the bottom part.

I wanted to go for the overpay effect and this was the simplest thing I came up with that hasn't been used on official cards.

Quote from: silverspawn
I think this demonstrates beyond a reasonable doubt that you're a much nicer person than I am.

Nah, it just reflects the different requirements of the different contests.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the next round, I assume it will be about Adventures. Since this is a quite complex expansion with a lot of different mechanics that are all interesting, what do you guys think about splitting it into two contest rounds?

« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 08:30:16 am by gambit05 »
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #233 on: November 23, 2020, 10:00:16 am »
+2

(I was mostly joking about that last part.) We've skipped Hinterlands, so that could also be the next one.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #234 on: November 23, 2020, 11:28:04 am »
0

(I was mostly joking about that last part.) We've skipped Hinterlands, so that could also be the next one.
and there's no rule saying we have to go in order. If I won, I'd have skipped to Nocturne (not bc it's my fav expansion, but because it's the one with the narrowest card pool imo, on account of shoehorning in a new phase/type and having to build the basis vector for that).
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 11:29:19 am by spineflu »
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grep

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #235 on: November 23, 2020, 12:05:47 pm »
+3

Thanks silverspawn, that was totally unexpected for my quick hack.
Hinterlands is one of my favorite expansions, so let's do it.

Contest 9: Hinterlands

This is quite a big expansion introducing a new mechanic of "when you gain/when you buy" effects. It encourages bulkier decks with having quite a lot of sifters and not having fast trashers.

The themes of Hinterlands:
(as specified by Donald X in http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1818.msg28889#msg28889)
9 effects when gained/bought: Noble Brigand, Nomad Camp, Cache, Embassy, Ill-Gotten Gains, Inn, Mandarin, Border Village, Farmland
4 other interaction with gain/buy: Duchess, Fool's Gold, Trader, Haggler
7 Victory/Treasure/Reaction: Fool's Gold, Tunnel, Silk Road, Trader, Cache, Ill-Gotten Gains, Farmland
4 interact with Victory cards: Crossroads, Duchess, Fool's Gold, Silk Road
8 card filtering: Oasis, Oracle, Jack of All Trades, Cartographer, Embassy, Inn, Margrave, Stables

I would also mention the theme of Silver/Gold gaining (Embassy, Noble Brigand, Fool's Gold, Trader, Jack of All Trades, Tunnel), and Horizontal Line (more than a half of Hinterlands cards have one)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 12:08:44 pm by grep »
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #236 on: November 23, 2020, 12:16:06 pm »
+1

Quote
Magistrate
Action

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs or more, +. Otherwise, +
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).


I'm not sure if this is good enough. It may not work because it depends on having dead cards in hand. Maybe lowering the price, and upping the difference between rewards would be better. Any advice?

Quote
Magistrate
Action

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs or more, +. Otherwise, +
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:10:31 pm by LittleFish »
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X-tra

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #237 on: November 23, 2020, 01:17:44 pm »
+2



An old idea I've shown to the Dominion Discord a couple of months ago. I think it fits within Hinterland's theme.
  • Mechanically, it has the dividing line, the Silver gaining and the "on-buy" (and "on-trash") effect.
  • Thematically, a Missionary is sent to far away lands to convert people to one's Religion, thus it fits within Hinterland's "oversea lands" theme. Missionary also has a link to faith, and so, like Chapel and Priest, it deals with trashing. It purifies your deck, all in all.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #238 on: November 23, 2020, 03:17:14 pm »
+2


Quote
Vizier • $3 • Action - Attack
Gain a Silver. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand reveals their hand and places the lowest cost (in coins) card on top of their deck.
-
When you gain this, do its attack.

Noble Bureaucrat? Uses the new Noble Brigand style wording.

edited for 4 or more cards
and because i missed probably the easiest thematic naming opportunity I've ever thought up
and because i realized there's a multi-card comparison problem when there's debt/potion costs, i added (in coins) from Forge.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:12:52 pm by spineflu »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #239 on: November 23, 2020, 03:17:33 pm »
+2

Quote
Magistrate
Action

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs or more, +. Otherwise, +
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).

I'm not sure if this is good enough. It may not work because it depends on having dead cards in hand. Maybe lowering the price, and upping the difference between rewards would be better. Any advice?

This looks like a nice late game card when players have a substantial number of Victory cards in their deck. However, the best case scenario when you play it is +$3, which seems quite weak for a $5 cost card. I don't know whether it would be balanced at $4. If not, a little extra bonus (e.g. +1 Buy) may help. The on-gain effect looks like an "Attack", but if I am correct that this card is bought rather late in the game, it may actually help the opponents to line up their Magistrate with a Victory card. This could be cool, but not combined with a weak on-play effect.
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spineflu

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