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Author Topic: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Over! Skum Wins!  (Read 41359 times)

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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1025 on: October 28, 2020, 06:30:58 pm »

You don't think Space's claim is suspicious? I look at it and think there is no good reason for town!Space to make that claim.

You seem to think that I'm claiming to IC myself, which is missing the point. Everyone was already townreading me, except that possibly you're residually suspicious, which is fine given that I'm suspicious of you in general, and have been cautious enough of you in this game that I've tracked you twice.

Anyway, what my post gave was a list of people I'd tracked with no outcome, because I want people to propose stuff that makes sense with that list, and because as I said we're at crunch time, and I think this whole game really should get solved now.

As for numbers, yes a priori the various additions were each equally likely to exist, but given the current state of play, with so few players left alive, it seems less likely that all surviving townies have PRs. This is especially true given that knowing my role exists already explained why the scumteam would be able to force a kill through on a doctored player, so no further complications were necessary for the game to make sense.. therefore the simple explanation was the one with fewer town PRs miraculously surviving this long. Sure, it's kind of marginal, which is why I'm perfectly content believing you now.

I'm sorry that your role has been outed unnecessarily if you though I was just going for an IC-status-grab that you then wanted to be sure was fully negated. However, I really don't think town loses anything by you coming forward now, because it's so unlikely you'd have been an NK target given there's a genuine IC a very likely doc, and a confirmed-from-scum's-PoV tracker out there for them to target.

PPE 28 because this post got mostly-written hours ago but then other stuff happened.
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1026 on: October 28, 2020, 06:34:40 pm »

From the second of the posted "Siamese Cat" QT messages posted by Swan in the setup, the bit describing the role-stopper says: "In addition to the factional kill, twice night you may spend a "shot" to target one player. Any other actions (besides kills) that affect your target will instead fail."

So that means that kills on a role-stopped target would go through, but doctorings would not. I assumed that EFHW would be role-stopped and NK'd in the same night, and that was how the kill would have worked. And since scum knew that there's a tracker out there, it makes more sense for one player to do both targets than for scum to do one each, so there's no reason for my results to IC anyone. I tracked Galz on the night EFHW was killed, and it's perfectly possible that Chairs is the Siamese Cat and did both the block and the kill. I'm not sure how Galz managed to twist that to make faust IC at all...
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1027 on: October 28, 2020, 06:54:43 pm »

Can we PLEASE exile Galz now.
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chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1028 on: October 28, 2020, 06:56:46 pm »

Okay, whatever, vote: Galz

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1029 on: October 28, 2020, 07:06:42 pm »

Sigh
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1030 on: October 28, 2020, 07:07:53 pm »

Well played scum
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1031 on: October 28, 2020, 07:08:46 pm »

Robz needs to work at his reasoning skills
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1032 on: October 28, 2020, 07:12:51 pm »

Was it faust-Chairs all along?
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1033 on: October 28, 2020, 07:14:13 pm »

Robz needs to work at his reasoning skills

I mean, you've been all "Chairs can't possibly be scum" for a while, which is what made me doubt that faust was the scum after all...
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1034 on: October 28, 2020, 07:21:39 pm »

Okay, my bad.. Chairs is only X-1, because faust unvoted and I've been pushing for a Chairs exile over Galz exactly because I'm worried about the faust-Chairs possibility.

Maybe the possible fake-hammer by Chairs was an effort to get scum!Galz to react exactly this way and cast more suspicion on faust, though. Huh.
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chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1035 on: October 28, 2020, 08:01:20 pm »

Maybe it's {Galz, Didds} and the reason there's no scum hammer here is because there's no scum to shove onto it, with Didds flirting with the Galz vote primarily because she knew I hated it. Maybe not. It's clear that Space isn't scum, since this would be the hammer for them if they were, so we can -at least- dispense with that particular flirtation.

My vote was a straight up "Robz asked for this" vote.

So, can we go back to exiling Didds yet? Or do you for sure want to exile Galz, Robz?

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1036 on: October 28, 2020, 08:11:11 pm »

Thereís obviously no scum hammer here because Galz is scum.
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Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1037 on: October 28, 2020, 08:39:23 pm »

Thereís obviously no scum hammer here because Galz is scum.

Iíll start cooking the hat. Preferences on doneness?
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1038 on: October 28, 2020, 08:39:52 pm »

Maybe it's {Galz, Didds} and the reason there's no scum hammer here is because there's no scum to shove onto it, with Didds flirting with the Galz vote primarily because she knew I hated it. Maybe not. It's clear that Space isn't scum, since this would be the hammer for them if they were, so we can -at least- dispense with that particular flirtation.

My vote was a straight up "Robz asked for this" vote.

So, can we go back to exiling Didds yet? Or do you for sure want to exile Galz, Robz?

I'm voting for Galz.
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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1039 on: October 28, 2020, 08:43:39 pm »

Didds count

WCD (1): Galz
Galzria (3): Robz, WCD, chairs
chairs: (1): Space
Not Voting (1): faust

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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1040 on: October 28, 2020, 08:46:27 pm »

Didds count

WCD (1): Galz
Galzria (3): Robz, WCD, chairs
chairs: (1): Space
Not Voting (1): faust

Making sure your partner doesnít miss the opportunity?
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1041 on: October 28, 2020, 08:50:31 pm »

Thereís obviously no scum hammer here because Galz is scum.

Thereís obviously no scum hammer because faust hasnít checked in.

I obviously fail at RB vs RS - thatís predicated a lot of my arguments today. This isnít a mistake I make as scum. Not once, not twice, not three times or more (as has been the case).

Space is right: I didnít consider scum killing & using a PR at the same time. Faust is correct that I mistook RS for RB.

Space isnít scum, or they missed the hammer (unlikely). Chairs & WCD arenít scum together. WCD and faust, which is where I started and spent most of the day, are.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1042 on: October 28, 2020, 08:53:41 pm »

Thereís obviously no scum hammer here because Galz is scum.

Thereís obviously no scum hammer because faust hasnít checked in.

I thought you said faust was confirmed town (though only to you for some reason!).
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Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1043 on: October 28, 2020, 09:01:37 pm »

Thereís obviously no scum hammer here because Galz is scum.

Thereís obviously no scum hammer because faust hasnít checked in.

I thought you said faust was confirmed town (though only to you for some reason!).

Based on my clearly misunderstood way RS works.

My argument for faust being basically IC was that if scum had stopped the Doctor N3, thereís no reason they wouldnít just kill the Doctor last night. And since that didnít happen, itís significantly more likely that they got through the Doctor kill by use of Strongman.

This argument has 2 problems;

1) Pointed out by faust: RS is not RB. Scum wouldíve stopped doctors from working on EFHW. This doesnít mean they know who the Doctor is.

2) Pointed out by Space: Scum likely can PR & kill with the same person.

Both of those points are valid. Neither of those are things I fuck up as scum here.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1044 on: October 28, 2020, 09:05:38 pm »

Okay, I thought about it some more and I think this is the right call. We have to get it right today or we lose, yeah?

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights). So, we should have as much information as they do and it should improve our VCA (although I havenít been on any of the mixiles so not as helpful as it could be.)

Reread and itís obvious, especially since I pretty much as much in the conversation with faust about why I was trying to avoid being nightkilled.

If scum already knew you were the Doctor, scum wouldíve killed you last night instead of risking you Doctoring their intended kill.

First time messing this up.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1045 on: October 28, 2020, 09:06:02 pm »

Thereís obviously no scum hammer here because Galz is scum.

Thereís obviously no scum hammer because faust hasnít checked in.

I thought you said faust was confirmed town (though only to you for some reason!).

Based on my clearly misunderstood way RS works.

My argument for faust being basically IC was that if scum had stopped the Doctor N3, thereís no reason they wouldnít just kill the Doctor last night. And since that didnít happen, itís significantly more likely that they got through the Doctor kill by use of Strongman.

This argument has 2 problems;

1) Pointed out by faust: RS is not RB. Scum wouldíve stopped doctors from working on EFHW. This doesnít mean they know who the Doctor is.

2) Pointed out by Space: Scum likely can PR & kill with the same person.

Both of those points are valid. Neither of those are things I fuck up as scum here.

It probably occurred to you and you feigned getting it wrong.
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Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1046 on: October 28, 2020, 09:08:19 pm »


N3: Galz -- he was terribly awol, and I know my frustration with his lack of interaction with the game was showing in-thread. However, an absent scum can still be puppeted by present scumbuddies in the scum QT, so it seemed worth a shot, and it seemed like the only possible way to get alignment-indicative content from him.

Cool - so faust is IC now as well! (Ok, to me anyway)

N3: If you Tracked me and got no result, either I'm town (hint hint), or the only possible way this happens AND the kill goes through a Doctor is if there exists a Strongman - because in this scum!Galzria scenario, either the Doctor was RB'd (in which case you would've seen me RB the Doctor OR perform the kill on EFHW), or YOU were RB'd, in which case the kill on EFHW must have been Strongman.

And with faust being IC (to me now), that means the scum team is either:

{WCD, Space}, {Chairs, Space}, reaaaaaaaaaaly unlikely {WCD, Chairs}.

Second time getting it wrong.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1047 on: October 28, 2020, 09:08:48 pm »

Why is faust an IC for Galz? If he's an IC for Galz he's just an IC, because Galz and faust can't both be scum.

Slightly facetious, but generally true.

If I'm scum, then it's clearly {Galzria, Chairs} or {Galzria, WCD}. faust is town in both scenarios.

My point was that Space tracked me on the night EFHW died, and got no result. Eevee was dead at this point, so there were only two scum remaining. Scum PR's that could potentially be in play are:

2 shot Rolestopper
1-shot Strongman

In order for Space to get a No-Result on me if I'm scum, is if THEY were Rolestopped, and a Strong-man killed EFHW through the Doctor. If I'm scum and the Doctor was Rolestopped, then Space would've seen me either: Rolestop the Doctor, OR Kill EFHW. As the only viable scenario for my being scum requires there to be a Strongman, this confirms faust's claim (which yes, is confirmed anyway in a world where I'm scum)

Note that the only viable scenario for my being scum is NOT the one Space put forward:

The existence of my role does mean that scum has a two-shot role-stopper, which is how they presumably killed EFHW N3: role-stopping her to prevent the doctor shot from taking, and then using a regular NK to get the job done. That means there is one rolestopper shot unaccounted for, i.e. my target could have been rolestopped on at most one night. I haven't actually confirmed with Swowl whether his interpretation of the "twice at night" means both shots could have been used on different targets on N3, or whether it needs to be different night. For scum to end up no-killing last night, I suspect it means that both rolestopper shots have now been used.

Note that from N3 when scum pulled out the stops to take EFHW down, there's no point in them using their godfatherer shot, so that makes the expected number of scum targets per night lower. When I tracked faust in N2, the godfatherer could still have been expected to be using shots, whereas when I tracked Galz N3, if he is the godfatherer (which I think is likely, with Chairs being the Siamese Cat) then there was no point in him targeting, since the godfatherer shot only protected them from EFHW's role and she was guaranteed to be out of the game.

-----

The truth is, I've been waiting for a Bullet Proof claim. It's what makes the most sense for EFHW's death. Why? Because if there is NOT a Strong-Man, then the only way for EFHW to have been killed is for the Doctor to have been Role Stopped. If this was the case, then there is NO REASON for there to have been no-kill last night. Scum would've killed the Doctor. The only logical reason EFHW died is that there is a Strongman.

Faust should be IC to pretty much everybody because his existence is the only reasonable explanation for us to be exactly where we're at right now.

Third time getting it wrong.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1048 on: October 28, 2020, 09:09:29 pm »

Thereís obviously no scum hammer here because Galz is scum.

Thereís obviously no scum hammer because faust hasnít checked in.

I thought you said faust was confirmed town (though only to you for some reason!).

Based on my clearly misunderstood way RS works.

My argument for faust being basically IC was that if scum had stopped the Doctor N3, thereís no reason they wouldnít just kill the Doctor last night. And since that didnít happen, itís significantly more likely that they got through the Doctor kill by use of Strongman.

This argument has 2 problems;

1) Pointed out by faust: RS is not RB. Scum wouldíve stopped doctors from working on EFHW. This doesnít mean they know who the Doctor is.

2) Pointed out by Space: Scum likely can PR & kill with the same person.

Both of those points are valid. Neither of those are things I fuck up as scum here.

It probably occurred to you and you feigned getting it wrong.

Oh please. Thatís such a bullshit argument and you know it. Thatís not a scum play.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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  • Posts: 953
  • Since 2012
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #1049 on: October 28, 2020, 09:17:39 pm »

Like, with Robz play, Iím at the point of hammering myself just to save everyone the six hours until faust logs in, but that would be doing a disservice to the rest of town.

I guess Iím just going to check out instead.

Good game scum (Eevee, faust, and I assume WCD - but especially good job Chairs if itís you). Genuinely enjoyed most of the game.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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