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Author Topic: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Over! Skum Wins!  (Read 9735 times)

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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
« Reply #875 on: October 23, 2020, 11:15:45 am »

Also, I had inadvertently implied I may not be the doctor earlier in the game already, so faust's indignant tone about it now seems a bit unnecessary:

MiX is a weird kill to me. In my last scum game, my team tried to use the amount of attention and distraction he generates to our advantage. Obviously this scum team did not see similar value here.

Yeah, we left MiX alive and misfiring to great effect there, but the fact remains he's a high-volume poster, so if the scumteam thought he was too townie, they may have wanted him out of the way in the hope of stalling the game more or something. I also agree with EFHW that you being alive points to the possibility of a doctor, unless it's some kind of scum gambit, but I'm not sure what advantage they'd think they're getting if leaving you deliberately alive as IC and risking a kill that could have been on a VT seemed worthwhile.
Well, I don't remember all of your posts by heart. And I for one make those kinds of posts all the time when I'm actually the role that's being talked about.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #876 on: October 23, 2020, 11:17:21 am »

vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #877 on: October 23, 2020, 11:21:46 am »

vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.

Iíve also done a full re-read, and my thoughts on each of Didds & chairs was made clear at the end of yesterday. In a straight up counter claim between the two, Iím going to side with the person that I honestly think is more likely to be town - and thatís chairs by a wide margin.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #878 on: October 23, 2020, 11:27:45 am »

Exiling outside the claimed doctors is an interesting idea, but if they have the rolestopper, they could probably use it to make me die tonight anyway.
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Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #879 on: October 23, 2020, 11:31:26 am »

Probably we should just exile didds.
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Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #880 on: October 23, 2020, 11:40:29 am »

vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.

Iíve also done a full re-read, and my thoughts on each of Didds & chairs was made clear at the end of yesterday. In a straight up counter claim between the two, Iím going to side with the person that I honestly think is more likely to be town - and thatís chairs by a wide margin.

I will re-ISO Didds and Chairs today, in the context of each of them being a Doctor. I'm not going to do a full write up on it, but I will at least re-read each before voting.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #881 on: October 23, 2020, 11:59:14 am »

Probably we should just exile didds.

Then you would have been in on every single Mixile!

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #882 on: October 23, 2020, 12:01:12 pm »

vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.

Working and multitasking right now...I need some time

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #883 on: October 23, 2020, 12:09:03 pm »

Although one thing that occurs to me at the outset is that chairs *absolutely* started laying the groundwork for this yesterday.  The day ended when he hammered ADK, and then he immediately turned around and said that ADK and I were scum.  Then the nightkill decision to leave me alive was easy knowing this would happen.

This works even better if the scum team is chairs and Galzy since he started building that narrative yesterday.



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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #884 on: October 23, 2020, 12:51:35 pm »

scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW
There are several things wrong in this one. First of all, there can be ways for scum to kill the Doctor's target without blocking them. Second... uh, the Mafia player who would have been the Roleblocker is Eevee, who was already dead at the time.

faust, can you help me understand this? how did she die without me being blocked or stopped?

chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #885 on: October 23, 2020, 01:24:17 pm »

Okay if I'm reading setup correctly then scum could have a one shot strongman or a two shot rolestopper, that could both have caused the N3 confusion that we need to figure out (regardless of whether you believe me or Didds, it would be beneficial for us to figure this one out I think). Do we have a tracker of 1-shot bp?

chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #886 on: October 23, 2020, 01:24:31 pm »

Don't claim yet if you are

chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #887 on: October 23, 2020, 01:25:29 pm »

That is to say, I want us to discuss whether one or both of those roles should claim if they're present before we go off half cocked and give scum anything more to work with

Swowl

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #888 on: October 23, 2020, 02:53:05 pm »

Vote Count 5.1:

WCD (1): chairs
Not Voting (5): WCD, Galz, Space, faust, Robz,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 5 starts now and ends October 29th at 7:40pm Forum Time.
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. Thatís how
Town:  12 wins, 9 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 6 wins, 5 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 2 wins, 1 loss

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #889 on: October 23, 2020, 03:14:59 pm »

Either way with these claims it is guaranteed that we have another PR. If we want to exile a non-Doctor, we should probably continue claiming... otherwise, not so much.

If they're both lying scum and there are no other PRs, doesn't it all flow fine?

Also, I'm claiming non-doctor explicitly now :-)
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
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Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #890 on: October 23, 2020, 03:18:15 pm »

I'm skeptical that we need any additional claims.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #891 on: October 23, 2020, 03:30:01 pm »

Alright.... 

I am not quite sure what I can say that clears me. As faust noted, it would be ENTIRELY like me to continue to Doc the IC, except when I thought EFHW was more valuable.

ISO chairs reveals that chairs is being way nicer to me than usual. Which I enjoy, but is also always a good technique where I am concerned but also scummy. He is literally being nicer to me than he has ever been, including chiming in when ADK was explaining to faust how they read my statement about trying not to get killed.  He also didn't ridicule my doctoring targets, which is where chairs would normally be. He is trying to Didds a Didds!

Think about this from a scum chairs/glaz perspective.  Scum wins if they can get me exiled. I haven't done anything scummy and none of my votes have been scummy. Galz (who I havent found terribly scummy until I started reading more closely) creates several narratives where he puts chairs and I together, and then looks at us as a team or town!chairs scum!WCD, but never the inverse. Chairs knows I am town, but all he needs to do is make me look guilty enough that Robz goes for it.  Robz has been off all game.  Literally none of his reads have been scum at all so this won't be a tough sale. Galz buries us in a wall of words that hide the one-way nature of his analysis and chairs insists that ADK and I are scum until ADK flips scum.  They literally only have to get him or one person to believe them. It's so smart....and 100% smarter than I would be able to pull off.  One of chairs or I is getting exiled today....do any of you really think that I have that kind of play in me.  That I would put myself on the block like that? Here's the thing...Robs and I have played together very little and he usually finds me scummy for the kind of fluffiness that some of ya'll have become more familiar with.  So their pitch is really just to him., and he's already said that he thinks its me so they just need to lean into that. Chairs fishing for other roles makes him look town helpful like he doesn't know the game will end when I get exiled. They know him better, they know the kinds of arguments that appeal to him, and they know that he will find my general playstyle fishy.

I'll do Galzy's big posts next.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
« Reply #892 on: October 23, 2020, 03:30:16 pm »

So, I am going back and rereading and holy cow, knowing what we know now about adk, and me/chairs, this is SUPER scummy. Its definitely trying to create a narrative where chairs is vindicated before he was ever on the block.


Some of the snapshots I was looking at:

* I'm adding green to ADK
Post #285

ADK (1): Glooble
Glooble (3): ADK, Space, Chairs
EFHW (2): Joseph, MiX
Galzria (1): WCD
Joseph (5): Galzria, faust, Robz, Dylan, Eevee
MiX (1): EFHW


If faust is scum, Eevee put the second scum vote on a wagon of 5 on Joseph. If two of {ADK, Space, Chairs} are scum, then there were two scum votes on a wagon of 3 (which was it's peak up to that point). If WCD is scum, and faust is town, then scum were spread evenly. If ADK is town, there were 6 wagons town wagons to choose from (if he's scum, there were 5 wagons to choose from). If ADK is scum, it makes it microscopically more likely that WCD is town, as fully spreading their votes with a potential scum wagon isn't quite as good.

What's more interesting is that the next three votes that follow are in posts #305 (Robz votes WCD), #307 (EFHW votes WCD), and #308 (Chairs votes WCD). The vote (and reasoning) from Chairs is basically follow-the-IC. If WCD is town, this looks much worse for Chairs. It's possible two town players snap followed Robz to WCD, but it's slightly more likely that one town and one scum did.

*That last sentence is authentic.  Two town, one scum. Chairs.


Post #339
Glooble (2): ADK, Space
EFHW (1): Joseph
Galzria (1): WCD
Joseph (6): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, MiX, Chairs
WCD (1): Robz
Chairs (1): faust


This is the first time Joseph's wagon hit 6, with Chairs casting the L-1 vote. faust had just moved to Chairs two votes prior in post #324, and while one vote does not a wagon make, could chairs have been worried there might be more movement to follow? Dunno. Maybe Chairs didn't even notice. If Chairs/WCD are scum though, I could see where scum wants to deter either of their wagons from forming up or gaining steam. Note Chairs moved from MiX, which was a solitary vote at the time.

* You know we aren't in this together now, but notably this is one of the only times that you entrain the idea that chairs is scum instead of me.

This is a snapshot progression of the last major movement D1:

Post #385:

Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz
EFHW (3): Joseph, WCD, MiX
Joseph (5): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, Chairs
ADK (1): EFHW


From here, where we had three entrenched town wagons, Chairs moved off of the leading wagon (with scum!Eevee on it), and onto ADK in post #404. Space moved from Glooble to Joseph in #423. Prior to the move Glooble and Joseph were both at 4 votes. Not really much reason for Space to do this as scum. They're separated from Eevee already, and it's all town wagons as far as the eye can see. At worst (or best, depending on your view), things go to a no-exile. There's no pressure or meta for Space to make this move either, so in all, pretty neutral at worst, townie at best. Robz moves off of Glooble in #425, and EFHW hammers Joseph in #427, moving off of ADK. This makes the final VC look like:

Post #427:

Glooble (2): ADK, faust
EFHW (3): Joseph, WCD, MiX
Joseph (7): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, Space, Robz, EFHW
ADK (1): Chairs


If Space is town, then the only scum on the Joseph wagon is Eevee. That's not entirely impossible, and in fact is where I lean. For my money, I think there's one scum in {Chairs, WCD}, and one in {ADK, faust}. I don't think scum!ADK and scum!faust were both hanging around over on Glooble. The Chairs move is once again not a good look.

*We know that there is in fact one scum in Chairs/WCD

For D2, at the point WCD voted Eevee, the wagons looked like this:

Post #514:
Chairs (3): ADK, Glooble, Eevee
Glooble (3): Chairs, faust, Robz
Eevee (2): EFHW, WCD

Not voting: Dylan, Space, Galz


WCD was coming from a solo vote on EFHW, and at the time it took 6 to exile. This is a tricky situation if WCD and Chairs are scum together. On the one hand, she could come in and start to run up the Glooble wagon. This probably looks bad for her down the line though. On the other, voting Eevee creates multiple wagons (even if two are on scum), and allows for more open discussion all around - Although I think WCD would just continue to push her EFHW case instead. On the flip side, if Chairs is town, this is a pretty safe place to vote for Eevee for WCD. There are two wagons with more votes than Eevee, Glooble is a very viable and leading candidate from the previous day, and given all of the town wagons that were going around D1, it's incredibly unlikely the Eevee wagon goes anywhere here. As noted in my ISO, WCD doesn't exactly push Eevee super hard throughout D2 - the vote is just kinda sitting there. In addition, if Chairs is town here, and one of {ADK, faust} is scum, as I believe, this allows scum!WCD to not stack any wagons.

*This is the paragrpah that I find scummy.  We know that WCD and chairs are not scum togther, but everything in the first part of this scenario is if we are and then reasons why we are not.  We are not.  Then he says "on the flip side" and looks at if chairs was town BUT does not create a scenario where I am town.  The flip side language makes it look like he is considering all of the possibilities, but that isn't what is happening.


And this kinda brings me to the EoD hammer on Glooble by Space:

Post #645:

Chairs (2): WCD, Glooble
Glooble (6): faust, Robz, ADK, Chairs, Eevee, Space
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting: Galzria, Dylan


Nothing, in all of the votes cast, and wagons prior, gives me ANY sense that scum were interested in stacking a wagon. I cannot find a single instance where I believe scum to have 3 votes on a wagon (or where, based on who is still alive), it's even likely/possible. Even with scum having daychat - I just do not honestly believe that they all piled onto Glooble here. I do not believe that Space, as scum, hammers here on a wagon that has both of their scum buddies on it. So if Space is scum, so is WCD. And while {faust, ADK} were already on the wagon when Chairs moved his vote there - which could be argued was a self preservation vote, if two of {faust, ADK, chairs} are scum, I don't believe that Eevee feels the need to get involved in this wagon right after Chairs. Either Chairs is town, and Eevee was already in a good spot on his wagon, or Chairs is scum, and Eevee's moving not only stacks the Glooble wagon, but also could implicate Chairs in the process by distancing from a partner.

Day 3 VCA isn't really worth looking at, and here we are on Day 4.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My overall conclusions, kept short here because I just updated the page and noticed ADK has been hammered, based on a combination of VCA and the ISO's that I did are as follows:

I'm 75% certain that WCD is scum. Her ISO was easily the scummiest of any living player, and where her votes sit in VCA analysis fits almost every ideal scum voting spread. Add in the fact that I simply do not believe that all scum were on the Glooble wagon EoD2, and this is hands down my highest scum read.

I'm also like, 90% certain Chairs is town. This would drop to 75% if WCD were also town, but I don't think that is the case. The primary thing here, is that despite his opportunistic voting and how he's generally approached play/his reads - the ISO on Eevee all but clears him. There is just no way Eevee endorses pursuing people that voted Joseph after Dylan did, when that subset contains {Eevee, Town!MiX, Glooble, Chairs} - especially as Eevee casually goes on to town read Glooble. That just isn't partner play. Add in that this suggestion was formulated by ADK (who could be scum), and it's pretty clear that Chairs isn't scum. Cherry on top, WCD's post #549, where she puts Eevee & Chairs as two of her three most scummy players - like I said in the WCD ISO, Scum!WCD's nightmare is to run solo. She doesn't double-bus, and she doesn't put both her partners in the bottom like that.

** 100% agree with the last sentence.  Chairs has been in my most scummy players and still is. Again, this is a one-sided assessment pitched as at an even handed look. He entrtains if chairsd and I are town togther but not if I am town and chairs is scum.

That leaves me feeling the following:

Scum: WCD
One Scum in: {faust, ADK}
Probably Town: Space
Town: Chairs

Between faust & ADK, I lean ADK - I'm not unhappy with his exile, although I would've preferred WCD.

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
« Reply #893 on: October 23, 2020, 03:48:57 pm »

Okay, I'll look at what Galz says about me and about chairs,

But isn't it interesting that the person prosecuting me is Galz? Okay, my comments in bold in text.


WCD:

-snipped-

#514 is the first really interesting post D2. A simple, unexplained (initially) vote for Eevee. This is the second vote for Eevee, following EFHW's vote two posts prior. One would think WCD was sheeping EFHW here - which would be really, really weird given WCD's push of EFHW as scum herself starting in post #361. This absolutely feels like opportunistic early Bus Cred.

Let's look at post #549:
Iím reading and following along, but Iím super swamped right now my apologies for not bring more engaged. Hopefully Iíll be out from under soon.

For me, Eevee and EFHW are on the scummy side of the street. Chairs is close to them.

Space and Glooble somewhere in the middle. Galz I guess, too.

ADK, faust, and Dylan on the friendly side.
If we assume Eevee and WCD are partners, it's unlikely that Chairs is the third. I don't really see WCD putting both partners in the bottom 3, even if neither are in any serious danger. I would expect at most 1 in the bottom tier, and 1 in the middle tier (if she's underplaying her reads). Honestly though, I would expect 1 partner in the bottom/middle, and 1 in the top. WCD nightmare scenario is being the last scum alive. She doesn't throw both partners under the bus. This means that if she's partners with Eevee, my most expected third would be ADK or faust, with an outside chance of Space. The vote for Chairs in #620 "over Glooble or faust", which puts Chairs at 3 (to match the 3 on Glooble) almost - ALMOST secures the non-pair between WCD and Chairs. Caveat being Daychat.

**Now we know there is a forced choice in WCD/Chairs. My nightmare scenario still holds true. No way that chairs and I are scum together and I am pushing to get him exiled. But if I am town and chairs is scum, it works. 

Starting D3, WCD agrees with Eevee that we have to get the exile right - she then turns to EoD VCA on Glooble. What's odd here is that, despite WCD being on the Eevee train D2 (the mostly non-existent Eevee train, mind you), WCD concludes "I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list." Here's the entire quote, which includes the EoD wagon:
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

Sooooo.... why the sudden change? And ADK had been a solid town read of WCD's for quite some time. Interesting VCA note from my PoV: With Glooble, Dylan and EFHW all being town, either WCD is scum, or in fact all three scum WERE on the Glooble wagon. With daychat that's not entirely implausible. Especially if faust is scum - he's more aware of VCA's use amongst f.ds players than anybody I know.

**Except if you are scum. Then the Glooble wagon makes sense according to your only 2 scum logic.



And then WCD's reads flip back again in #691/#692:
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a bad idea and I don't understand where the sentiment is coming from

Then whoís on your list?

Quite frankly I'm starting to think it's you, sorry

Think harder, then, because we need to get this right and itís not me.
Highest on my lists are eevee and space. Give those a think...

Like, where did this Space read come from? And now she's back to Eevee? This is all very inconsistent.

**So, you think Eevee is my partner and I am willing to be inconsistent in order to vote for him? If you had asked where the Space read had come from, I'd have answered. The Eevee read was correct.

The last thing I have here for WCD is that she is trying really, really hard today to make it seem like she was all over Eevee for being scummy earlier in the game when... the truth is that just wasn't the case. Yes, she voted Eevee D2, and spent much of the day with her vote parked there. She even has a few places where she tries to get discussion going on Eevee - but she's never fully committed to it, and it's at a time when Eevee is completely unlikely to be exiled. This feels a lot like scum trying to get credit for having scum reads on scum... without ever having *really* tried to get scum exiled.

**Really, really hard?  I said to ADK something along the lines of "this wasn't as certain as I remember it being" and then provided the quote where I said I thought Eevee was scummy. That isn't what "really, really hard" looks like but I see now that you are working pretty hard to make it look that way.

ISO'd out, WCD has a LOT of scum points against her.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
« Reply #894 on: October 23, 2020, 03:59:47 pm »

Here is what Galz has to say about chairs.  It's nothing. He finds his votes scummy, but not as scummy as me. If you imagine chairs to be scum and read all of this the fact that all of the votes that Galz isolates are on town are more damning. No one could read this and say "oh yeah, chairs sure is scummy based on this" because unlike his other reads, Glaz provides almost no commentary here.  If I think of them as partners, it reads as way more sus but on its own Glaz provides NO reasons why someone might vote for chairs other than his votes which everyone was going to come to on their own anyway.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Chairs:

Fluff until #120. Then this:
Quote from: chairs link topic=20512.msg854240#msg854240 date=1601053192
Let's be real, scumteam is MiX/Chairs/Robz and we bribed the mod to fake-IC Robz.  ::)

Thoughts:
0. Swowl
Obviously secretly playing as the grassy knoll scummer.

1. Dylan
HOW HAVE I NOT WRITTEN ANYTHING ABOUT YOU BY POST 56

2. WCD
First post - towny fluff.
IKR MIXIAN RESPONSE IS THE BEST.

3. EFHW
First post - towny fluff.
Next notable post is talking about liking cats despite being allergic. This is not very doglike behavior, EFHW, and I am disappointed.

4. ADK
First post calls out request for IC info. Means ADK read the setup. Reading the setup is scummy.
Votes MiX but feels the need to explain why. Explanations about MiX votes are for scum who want to feel better about wagoning their teammate (MiX, who is always scum). Scummy.
MIXIAN RESPONSE I love you, I'm not rewriting this post but you get a D1 pass now b/c I love this.
Tries to pair me as scum with mix. Is obviously trying to deflect from their own obvious pairing with mix.

5. Galz
Gets first post of D1, scummy. Eager to dig into MiX, known scum extraordinaire. Clearly D1 ploy to wagon a teammate for towncred. Scummy.
Votes Robz, confirmed Town.

6. Joseph

7. faust
Complicit in Swowl's plot to disenfranchise deserving dogs. Clearly a cat, and thus scum.
"Everybody wants to be a cat" notes. Everybody knows cats are stinky noodlebutts. DOG AM BEST BOI. SUPER SCUM.
Accuses mix of having trouble reading their own posts. I'm dying. Everyone knows cats don't have humor, so this must be a misdogerstanding.
votes ADK. ADK is the less obv of the obv!scum, so this is leaning me back towards dog-status more.

8. MiX
Tells Galz to trust his MiX!Radar. Neutral. We all have a great MiX!Radar, that being that MiX is always scum.
Votes EFHW. Thus, EFHW is Town.
Agrees with ADK voting MiX. IS MIX. Clearly a ploy to make scum!ADK look like town!ADK.
Votes EFHW... again? (reply 57). I can only assume this is some hardcore PR hunting.
Defends me. IS THIS THE RARE TOWN MIX? OR IS THIS A DIRTY CAT PLOY?

9. chairs
It's me! I'm amazing and practically perfect in every way.

10. Eevee
Trusting IC!Robz? Not a good look. Scum.
Fluffy? Good bois are fluffy and pettable. Maaaybe is dog?

11. Space
IS IN SPACE and thus a dog. Have you heard of any famous cats in space? NO. WE ONLY PUT GOOD DOGGOS IN SPACE. NO CAT.

12. Robz
IC.

13. Glooble
"Allergic to cats". Sounds like something a cat would say. Everyone knows even cats hate cats.
Votes me! Confirmed scum.

(14). Jotheonah
Killed N0 by Swowl. Basically John F Doggedy.



Okay I'm bored with that now, ran out of steam about post 84. Main takeaway? This game has had relatively little meat.

Specific notes in not-amusing-myself fashion:
MiX is bit fluffier than usual, which I actually think is a Town!MiX tell - I think scum!MiX kinda bares fangs a little quicker in the outset.
Eevee is stressing that Robz "reads me well" which feels a lil' scummy honestly.
XaL says vote: Dylan is a solid choice. Joseph also a good choice.
Robz as IC is great, because now I don't have to vote Robz off the island for being Robz, who I usually feel like plays a very scummy Town game (and a very scummy Scum game).
The way ADK has played off MiX makes me feel like ADK is kinda scummy.
faust comes off as, well, faust. I'd feel more towny about it from, say, Glooble, but for faust this is neutral.

JOHNNY FIVE NEEDS INPUT. More votes, folks.

Will try to read though stuff past 90 or so in a bit.
A lot of reads, some more serious than others. Slight scum read on Eevee this early stands out. His point isn't wrong - but I wouldn't expect it to get called out this early/quickly.

There aren't a lot of posts from Chairs, but he sheeps/votes a lot given the lack of overall posts. And he's all over the place. Take this post at #179:
Phone posting for like the next four days.

Not feeling good about this ADK situation that occurred. Feeling worse about the Galz situation.

Didds and MiX getting D1 passes from me

Followed by #308:
Vote: didds

Yeah that's a big ol nothing burger.

And #320:
MiX is sus. Haven't found a body but someone hit emergency meeting button. Gut feel.

Vote: mix

Or early(ish) on, in #262, when Chairs posts this:
Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.

And then this at #404:
Am I really lurking that much? Man, sorry. It doesn't feel like it on my end.

I think this it Town gloobs

I think the ADK argument from gloobs makes a lot of sense.

Vote: adk

In fact, Chairs votes for 6 unique people on D1, without doubling up on anybody. He then opens D2 voting for a 7th unique player (faust), before unvoting (#478) and casting his first repeat vote (#484) on Glooble. This then changes to an 8th unique player (me) in #547. For good measure, he got a vote on a Cop Caught Eevee D3 in #679, making 9 unique votes out of 12 cast.

It's almost as if he's just going off a checklist. This was post #478:
Okay good, my faust vote got d2 convos rolling. I can unvote now.

unvote

Leaning Gloobs but I want to actually take some time to reread.
Nobody else talked about faust or voted for him or did anything that even recognized the existence of the vote from the point in time he cast it (#455) to the above quote. It served no purpose, and didn't start any conversation. It's almost like Chairs has a quota to fill here.

And this, from #502, seems to confirm that Chairs is very aware of his play:
Question for chairs. What changed between here:

Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.

and here:

Am I really lurking that much? Man, sorry. It doesn't feel like it on my end.

I think this it Town gloobs

I think the ADK argument from gloobs makes a lot of sense.

Vote: adk

And now you're back on me again?



I'd love to hear some thoughts from Glooble on his D1 wagon.

Well, I've talked about ADK a lot. Robz is town. MiX was town. So that leave you, chairs and Space (taht's everyone who voted for me at all, I think.) See above for chairs- he goes back and forth between me and ADK in a way that I think it honestly pretty scummy. Space's initial vote for me reads like a joke vote. The weirdest thing is that they defend it like it was more serious than it initially appeared. Your vote doesn't come with a lot of explanation, I assume you just thought I was a better wagon than Joseph. But my wagon never had much substance to it.

Most likely scum is chairs I think. I'm still wary of ADK but my scumread on them has cooled somewhat, I think it was a little too emotionally motivated.

vote: chairs

PPE: faust voting for me

What happened mostly is that my votes and reads are mercurial, as always. This is not news ::) I always gutfeel my way through games, and I'm usually only really thinking about the last page or two of posts, tops, unless I have -just- read X pages (and even then, I find I just tie myself in knots if I don't just let everything flow like waves against the shore and see what treasure gets stuck in the sand).

And that's pretty much all from Chairs. Couple of votes for me each time it's brought up that I haven't posted.

His votes have also been extremely opportunistic, which I'll get into more in the VCA.

All in all, I would put him up there with WCD in terms of how scummy their individual ISO's are. This is true more for Chairs because of VCA (which will come next) than WCD, who is scummy because of her posts.
----------------------------------------------------------------

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #895 on: October 23, 2020, 04:01:42 pm »

And to further solidify the forced choice

Vote: chairs

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #896 on: October 23, 2020, 04:02:39 pm »

Vote: Didds
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #897 on: October 23, 2020, 04:07:17 pm »

Vote: chairs

I've got something to say but it will have to wait until tomorrow.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #898 on: October 23, 2020, 04:10:34 pm »

Just you know, don't exile Didds yet.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #899 on: October 23, 2020, 04:12:02 pm »

Vote: Didds

Come on, Rob! Be right once.  If you have been trusting your gut this whole game and your gut hasn't been right at all, can't we go with the opposite of that now?
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