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Author Topic: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Over! Skum Wins!  (Read 9513 times)

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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #850 on: October 23, 2020, 12:48:26 am »

Oh yeah, somehow didn't see that PPE.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #851 on: October 23, 2020, 01:59:03 am »

Are we massclaiming?

I'm like 70% sure that it would be good.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #852 on: October 23, 2020, 06:14:05 am »

I dunno about claiming when scum know exactly what roles are out there and we don't. I've been suspicious from early on that leaving Robz alive could be a scum plot to make us think we have a doctor that a scum can then use as a fake-claim later on to try to IC one of their number. Though actually I'd have been most suspicious of that if EFHW hadn't already flipped town, because I thought something she'd said earlier really contributed nicely to setting that possibility up... I'd have to dig back through her posts to remind myself exactly what it was, though.

Anyway, Chairs's behaviour coming into today makes it look like he's likely to claim credit for the lack of NK, though without him using actual words, I guess it's not a safe assumption to make.

If we are going to decide to mass-claim, then I absolutely think our actual living mod-confirmed IC should be the one to be pushing for it, rather than anyone else.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #853 on: October 23, 2020, 06:40:59 am »

Good point. Robz, what say you?

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #854 on: October 23, 2020, 07:48:14 am »

I dunno about claiming when scum know exactly what roles are out there and we don't. I've been suspicious from early on that leaving Robz alive could be a scum plot to make us think we have a doctor that a scum can then use as a fake-claim later on to try to IC one of their number. Though actually I'd have been most suspicious of that if EFHW hadn't already flipped town, because I thought something she'd said earlier really contributed nicely to setting that possibility up... I'd have to dig back through her posts to remind myself exactly what it was, though.
For someone who isn't sure about claiming you do seem quite eager to claim not-Doctor.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #855 on: October 23, 2020, 07:53:36 am »

If we are going to decide to mass-claim, then I absolutely think our actual living mod-confirmed IC should be the one to be pushing for it, rather than anyone else.
Ha. So what, we're all supposed to sit back and twiddle our thumbs while Robz solves the game?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #856 on: October 23, 2020, 08:30:14 am »

Iíve been thinking about the mass claim hike Iíve been getting up and around. I see lots of upsides.  Faust, what are the 30% negatives?

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #857 on: October 23, 2020, 08:34:34 am »

Ha. So what, we're all supposed to sit back and twiddle our thumbs while Robz solves the game?

You make it sound like the only two options are thumb-twiddling or Robz-following, and that's not it at all. Any of us has better PoE than Robz, because we can trust our own alignment as well as his, so any of us have a better chance of making useful cases and observations than Robz does.

However I will be deeply suspicious of anyone trying to force town into playing things their way unless they're an IC, because right now I'm going to have to read anyone who isn't Robz through several paranoid layers of "what if this person has an ulterior motive?". It benefitted scum to rush things at the EoD4, especially since Galz was still apparently working on cases when the hammer came, and I don't want to see town rushed into anything quickly now.

(And yes, I recognise that I was one of the ones driving the earlier part of the ADK wagon, and that I'm equally to blame for that mixile, but we should have left more time to discuss what Galz was contributing, and at least had warning intent from Chairs. Instead we had a sudden rushed super-early mixile that was either caused by scum pushing a sense of urgency on us, or town getting bored and not thinking, or a bit of both.. but I'm suspicious of the possibility that scum is being manipulative here).

PPE 1
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
« Reply #858 on: October 23, 2020, 08:37:38 am »

Here's the post by EFHW early in D2 that I remembered:

I'm thinking the choice of MiX over Robz means we have a doctor.

Also, I had inadvertently implied I may not be the doctor earlier in the game already, so faust's indignant tone about it now seems a bit unnecessary:

MiX is a weird kill to me. In my last scum game, my team tried to use the amount of attention and distraction he generates to our advantage. Obviously this scum team did not see similar value here.

Yeah, we left MiX alive and misfiring to great effect there, but the fact remains he's a high-volume poster, so if the scumteam thought he was too townie, they may have wanted him out of the way in the hope of stalling the game more or something. I also agree with EFHW that you being alive points to the possibility of a doctor, unless it's some kind of scum gambit, but I'm not sure what advantage they'd think they're getting if leaving you deliberately alive as IC and risking a kill that could have been on a VT seemed worthwhile.

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #859 on: October 23, 2020, 09:22:21 am »

Okay, I thought about it some more and I think this is the right call. We have to get it right today or we lose, yeah?

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights). So, we should have as much information as they do and it should improve our VCA (although I havenít been on any of the mixiles so not as helpful as it could be.)

Reread and itís obvious, especially since I pretty much as much in the conversation with faust about why I was trying to avoid being nightkilled.

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #860 on: October 23, 2020, 10:24:33 am »

Okay, I thought about it some more and I think this is the right call. We have to get it right today or we lose, yeah?

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights). So, we should have as much information as they do and it should improve our VCA (although I havenít been on any of the mixiles so not as helpful as it could be.)

Reread and itís obvious, especially since I pretty much as much in the conversation with faust about why I was trying to avoid being nightkilled.

Okay cool, I was going to ask Didds to claim first, anyway. (I'm on such a role! That was sarcasm.)

I think now I just want everyone to swiftly just acknowledge the claim, or counterclaim if you ARE the Doctor.
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #861 on: October 23, 2020, 10:37:11 am »

I'm not a Doctor.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #862 on: October 23, 2020, 10:40:39 am »

scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW
There are several things wrong in this one. First of all, there can be ways for scum to kill the Doctor's target without blocking them. Second... uh, the Mafia player who would have been the Roleblocker is Eevee, who was already dead at the time.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #863 on: October 23, 2020, 10:43:27 am »

Hey now! I'm the doc!

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )

chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #864 on: October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 am »

Faust is right that they lost their Roleblocker so they must have strongman or something? I need to go look at setup

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #865 on: October 23, 2020, 10:47:06 am »

Strongman or Rolestopper could have done it.

Well, I presume we aren't going to hav a third Doctor claim, so it's chairs or didds!
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #866 on: October 23, 2020, 10:48:39 am »

Uuhhh counterclaims!

It is technically possible (and would be absolutely hilarious) that both Didds and chairs are lying... but really, that is not the kind of play I would expect from a Didds/chairs team.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #867 on: October 23, 2020, 10:50:33 am »

I will say that this:

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )

Is a doctoring plan that better matches how I think an actual town Doctor would have played it, than this:

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights).
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #868 on: October 23, 2020, 10:50:47 am »

Is there any value to exiling outside of Didds/chairs? It would force scum to leave our Doctor alive if we get it right. And from my perspective the chances of getting it right are about the same.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #869 on: October 23, 2020, 10:52:56 am »

Either way with these claims it is guaranteed that we have another PR. If we want to exile a non-Doctor, we should probably continue claiming... otherwise, not so much.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #870 on: October 23, 2020, 10:55:56 am »

I will say that this:

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )

Is a doctoring plan that better matches how I think an actual town Doctor would have played it, than this:

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights).
I think both match how Didds/chairs would probably have played as town Doctors.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Galzria

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #871 on: October 23, 2020, 11:01:49 am »

vote: WCD
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #872 on: October 23, 2020, 11:03:50 am »

I will say that this:

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )

Is a doctoring plan that better matches how I think an actual town Doctor would have played it, than this:

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights).

Ha!  I am brand new to this role. I have been a doc only twice before, both times killed right off the bat.

So, if you are thinking "well, that is not so smart" then you'd be right.

chairs

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #873 on: October 23, 2020, 11:06:02 am »

I think there's no point in anybody else claiming.

Obviously we have to exile Didds (or for non me Town, "or chairs").

Vote: Didds

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #874 on: October 23, 2020, 11:13:31 am »

vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
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