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Author Topic: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Over! Skum Wins!  (Read 20883 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #375 on: September 30, 2020, 09:07:43 am »

Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

chairs is hard to get excited about, as far as I can tell it's basically a lurker exile
I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

I'll admit it wasn't the most stellar argument, which is why I haven't really followed up with it. Certainly none of the three players in question have jumped out at me as scummy
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #376 on: September 30, 2020, 09:08:39 am »

I meant to follow up that chairs comment with saying that people should join me on Glooble!
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #377 on: September 30, 2020, 09:11:46 am »

I meant to follow up that chairs comment with saying that people should join me on Glooble!
yolo

Vote:Glooble
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #378 on: September 30, 2020, 09:12:09 am »

Oops missing space!

Vote: Glooble
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

EFHW

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #379 on: September 30, 2020, 09:20:55 am »

Do you townread Glooble Dylan and Joseph then? Otherwise, if what ADK said might be true, then we should follow up on that first, right?

I think they are probably town, yes.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #380 on: September 30, 2020, 09:21:53 am »

faust, you said chairs was scummy for the vote bouncing around yesterday. EFHW did the same thing plus another vote/invite on MiX and snapped at me for voting for her. Is that les scummy than chairs?

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #381 on: September 30, 2020, 09:22:22 am »

I unvoted you, remember? And I had reasons for my vote, one of which turned out to be a misunderstanding.  Do we have your full attention?
I'm sorry, this was really not nice of me.

Thank you

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #382 on: September 30, 2020, 09:25:56 am »

faust, you said chairs was scummy for the vote bouncing around yesterday. EFHW did the same thing plus another vote/invite on MiX and snapped at me for voting for her. Is that les scummy than chairs?
Yes. With EFHW I can see why she voted and unvoted when she did, and that largely seems to make sense.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Joseph2302

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #383 on: September 30, 2020, 09:40:00 am »

Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

chairs is hard to get excited about, as far as I can tell it's basically a lurker exile
I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

I'll admit it wasn't the most stellar argument, which is why I haven't really followed up with it. Certainly none of the three players in question have jumped out at me as scummy
We often seem to chairs exile based mainly on inactivity. There must be a better option based on scumminess not just lurkiness
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Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #384 on: September 30, 2020, 09:54:27 am »

Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

chairs is hard to get excited about, as far as I can tell it's basically a lurker exile
I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

I'll admit it wasn't the most stellar argument, which is why I haven't really followed up with it. Certainly none of the three players in question have jumped out at me as scummy
We often seem to chairs exile based mainly on inactivity. There must be a better option based on scumminess not just lurkiness
I don't know why you two insist that chairs would be a lurker exile when my reasoning, which both of you quoted, clearly has nothing to do with his level of activity, but I don't like it.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Robz888

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #385 on: September 30, 2020, 10:07:24 am »

Vote: Glooble is fine by me, actually. Definitely better than Joseph.
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Glooble

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #386 on: September 30, 2020, 10:15:45 am »

Joseph is such a better exile.

But w/e. Once I flip town maybe you'll see ADK's smear job for what it is and vote them off next.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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MiX

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #387 on: September 30, 2020, 10:30:03 am »

Oops missing space!

Vote:spaceGlooble

Joseph is such a better exile.

But w/e. Once I flip town maybe you'll see ADK's smear job for what it is and vote them off next.

Do you think they're both scum?

Are you claiming?
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Glooble

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #388 on: September 30, 2020, 10:44:03 am »

Oops missing space!

Vote:spaceGlooble

Joseph is such a better exile.

But w/e. Once I flip town maybe you'll see ADK's smear job for what it is and vote them off next.

Do you think they're both scum?

Are you claiming?

I might claim if I get another vote or two on me.

I could certainly see them both being scum, but I don't have any particular evidence of them being partners. I might be tunneling a little because ADK's attacks on me feel personal, I'm open to that possibility. But in general pretty much everything they've said this game has come off as manipulative and scummy to me. Joseph, OTOH, has Dylan's excellent case and an actual chance of happening.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #389 on: September 30, 2020, 10:45:30 am »

@faust: I don't find the vote-hopping terribly scummy, in that it's what I would expect from lazy!town!chairs, so the biggest reason I see to vote for chairs would be his lurkiness
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #390 on: September 30, 2020, 10:46:29 am »

I don't see how I've made anything in my arguments personal
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Glooble

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #391 on: September 30, 2020, 10:49:38 am »

Maybe that was the wrong term. It feels very obvious to me that ADK's case on me is built out of nothing, and I'm baffled by everyone's willingness to go along with it. I see a musch stronger scum narrative for them than a town one, and I'm hoping that if I do get exiled and flip town, that narrative will be as obvious to all of you as it is to me, right now, having knowledge of my own alignment.

Could someone please state a case on me using actual facts? I don't know what such a case would look like, but I'm guessing its not remotely close to as good as the case on Joseph.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #392 on: September 30, 2020, 10:53:34 am »

Maybe that was the wrong term. It feels very obvious to me that ADK's case on me is built out of nothing, and I'm baffled by everyone's willingness to go along with it. I see a musch stronger scum narrative for them than a town one, and I'm hoping that if I do get exiled and flip town, that narrative will be as obvious to all of you as it is to me, right now, having knowledge of my own alignment.

Could someone please state a case on me using actual facts? I don't know what such a case would look like, but I'm guessing its not remotely close to as good as the case on Joseph.

That's a fair request, I won't much time until this evening but I will try to do something on my lunch break
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #393 on: September 30, 2020, 11:05:50 am »

MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!
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MiX

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #394 on: September 30, 2020, 11:06:28 am »

MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!

I think Glooble is town. Count me out, I'll die on the EFHW wagon.
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #395 on: September 30, 2020, 11:09:37 am »

MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!

I think Glooble is town. Count me out, I'll die on the EFHW wagon.

So what changed from here?
I don't think Joseph is scum. If I had to call it, I'd say the scumteam's EFHW/Glooble/Galzria, and these are whom I would like to exile today.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Glooble

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #396 on: September 30, 2020, 11:10:24 am »

The first time I was an IC, on Jimmmm's site, I played it more or less how Robz is playing it. A more experienced player, I wish I could remember who, it may even have been ADK, might also have been shraeye or Galz, advised me to not vote until the very end of wagons as IC, because my vote on a bad wagon gave scum too much cover if they got on after me. In subsequent games where I've gotten the IC role, I've tended to avoid starting a wagon unless I was fairly certain about it.

The fact that my wagon started with a vote from Robz but has been pushed by ADK is telling. It gives ADK cover for when I flip town. "Oh, well I didn't start it, it was the IC, I just followed along." Again, look at the votes. ADK votes for MiX, gives their reasons. I say "those reasons make sense." Robz tells people not to fall into the trap of voting for MiX, then votes for me. Even if Robz didn't outright say "voting for MiX is scummy" the fact that he immediately voted for me implied it. Then ADK jumps on me. Even though I was literally sheeping their case. I just don't see a town narrative for that behavior at all. But it makes perfect sense to me as a deflection tactic from a scum player when the IC calls their case scummy.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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MiX

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #397 on: September 30, 2020, 11:11:52 am »

MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!

I think Glooble is town. Count me out, I'll die on the EFHW wagon.

So what changed from here?
I don't think Joseph is scum. If I had to call it, I'd say the scumteam's EFHW/Glooble/Galzria, and these are whom I would like to exile today.

His latest posts come from town!Glooble, all alone in the world and against everyone. I can't see him having any partners.

The first time I was an IC, on Jimmmm's site, I played it more or less how Robz is playing it. A more experienced player, I wish I could remember who, it may even have been ADK, might also have been shraeye or Galz, advised me to not vote until the very end of wagons as IC, because my vote on a bad wagon gave scum too much cover if they got on after me. In subsequent games where I've gotten the IC role, I've tended to avoid starting a wagon unless I was fairly certain about it.

The fact that my wagon started with a vote from Robz but has been pushed by ADK is telling. It gives ADK cover for when I flip town. "Oh, well I didn't start it, it was the IC, I just followed along." Again, look at the votes. ADK votes for MiX, gives their reasons. I say "those reasons make sense." Robz tells people not to fall into the trap of voting for MiX, then votes for me. Even if Robz didn't outright say "voting for MiX is scummy" the fact that he immediately voted for me implied it. Then ADK jumps on me. Even though I was literally sheeping their case. I just don't see a town narrative for that behavior at all. But it makes perfect sense to me as a deflection tactic from a scum player when the IC calls their case scummy.

It makes perfect sense for town to do that. Sheeping a case isn't townie, and your jump on me was terrible.
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #398 on: September 30, 2020, 11:14:02 am »

Grunch grunch!

I also think Glooble is town (but ADK is townier).

I really think Joseph is a good bet, and I wouldn't oppose a lurker exile (say chairs). Mix lately has been behaving like I'd expect from his townself, but come to think of it not sure I've ever seen him as scum, as much as I've always thought he was.

Main point, not sure why the Joseph wagon fizzled, I didn't find his defense compelling at all. I didn't see Didds's original posts as scummy as others, but the defense didn't ring very genuine to me, I'll be keeping my eye out on them.

All in all, deadline close, the case on Joseph was a GREAT d1 case, I really think we should go for that.

Also funny sidenote, if Robz wasn't the IC, I'd totally be calling for his lurker lynch now, haha. (... I know his play makes sense for IC, just think it's funny that it makes sense for IC and scum to play sort of the same way.)
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #399 on: September 30, 2020, 11:15:02 am »

His latest posts come from town!Glooble, all alone in the world and against everyone. I can't see him having any partners.
Which posts? How do his posts indicate that he doesn't have partners?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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