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Author Topic: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Over! Skum Wins!  (Read 26303 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #225 on: September 27, 2020, 10:13:21 pm »

I'd like to hear why faust and Glooble are voting ADK.

Because they're acting incredibly scummy. Basically they vote for MiX, make a case on MiX, I say "That case makes sense" and join them. Then Robz, the IC, says the case is bad. Immediately, ADK attacks me. Why? So that all of the "voting for MiX is scummy" arguments stick to me instead of ADK.

It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.

Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX
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MiX

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #226 on: September 28, 2020, 02:52:23 am »

Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph

Why do you think Joseph is scum?

Vote: Galzria, and a requote of a question, since you said you like these.
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #227 on: September 28, 2020, 03:06:21 am »

Sorry I've not been around much. The weekend was busier than anticipated.
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #228 on: September 28, 2020, 03:07:49 am »

I'd like to hear why faust and Glooble are voting ADK.
Oh, I thought they were reading particularly grumpy and that didn't quite seem genuine.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #229 on: September 28, 2020, 03:43:25 am »

I still don't find the 3 people in row theory at all compelling. And since I was first, it pertains even less to me. Three people have bought into the theory: ADK, MiX  and Joseph. One of them must be scum?
Possibly, I'm not sure about MiX
This sheeping is an easy way for scum to get on wagons, and they can continue it to get on mislynches
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Town: 22 games, 8 wins
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #230 on: September 28, 2020, 04:20:44 am »

I still don't find the 3 people in row theory at all compelling. And since I was first, it pertains even less to me. Three people have bought into the theory: ADK, MiX  and Joseph. One of them must be scum?
Possibly, I'm not sure about MiX
This sheeping is an easy way for scum to get on wagons, and they can continue it to get on mislynches
said Joseph, while sheeping ADK's reasoning.
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #231 on: September 28, 2020, 04:22:24 am »

Vote: Joseph
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #232 on: September 28, 2020, 06:14:23 am »

I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
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Glooble

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #233 on: September 28, 2020, 07:35:45 am »


Can you point to where this happened?

Pages 4 and 5, mostly.


Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX

Yeah, but since he followed that up with a vote for me, it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on his feelings re: MiX voters.
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MiX

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #234 on: September 28, 2020, 07:40:28 am »


Can you point to where this happened?

Pages 4 and 5, mostly.


Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX

Yeah, but since he followed that up with a vote for me, it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on his feelings re: MiX voters.


Because they're acting incredibly scummy. Basically they vote for MiX, make a case on MiX, I say "That case makes sense" and join them. Then Robz, the IC, says the case is bad. Immediately, ADK attacks me. Why? So that all of the "voting for MiX is scummy" arguments stick to me instead of ADK.

It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.

These two statements contradict each other: ADK didn't turn the arguments against you, Robz did, with his vote.
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #235 on: September 28, 2020, 07:53:47 am »

I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
And you!

I don't think there's a lot to say about the setup before we get claims, especially so because someone might inadvertently reveal something they shouldn't amidst the discussion. But then again I wasn't listed as someone who's likely to analyze the setup, so what do I know, haha.
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MiX

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #236 on: September 28, 2020, 07:55:16 am »

It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.

Glooble is going hardcore against the thread, I just realized this is saying the consensus townread is obviously scum.

This is incredibly townie, seems like suicide for scum to be so opposed to something. Unless ADK's also scum, then it's a really good play. So, keep the Glooble/ADK pair in mind.

I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
And you!

I don't think there's a lot to say about the setup before we get claims, especially so because someone might inadvertently reveal something they shouldn't amidst the discussion. But then again I wasn't listed as someone who's likely to analyze the setup, so what do I know, haha.

There's nothing for town to say about the setup, so what we know is that scum identified this and steered away from it because they don't need to, which is a good reason to townread Space.
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #237 on: September 28, 2020, 08:17:01 am »

I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
And you!

I don't think there's a lot to say about the setup before we get claims, especially so because someone might inadvertently reveal something they shouldn't amidst the discussion. But then again I wasn't listed as someone who's likely to analyze the setup, so what do I know, haha.
Yay me for making an argument that clears myself!

But really I will only say something setup-related when there is some sort of plan to be made (and I don't think that's the case here). Otherwise yes it's anti-town.
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #238 on: September 28, 2020, 08:17:44 am »

This is incredibly townie, seems like suicide for scum to be so opposed to something.
How is that suicide?
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #239 on: September 28, 2020, 08:18:37 am »

It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.
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MiX

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #240 on: September 28, 2020, 08:25:18 am »

It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

Sure doesn't seem to be helping Glooble.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #241 on: September 28, 2020, 08:26:44 am »


Can you point to where this happened?

Pages 4 and 5, mostly.


Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX

Yeah, but since he followed that up with a vote for me, it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on his feelings re: MiX voters.

Seems like we are already falling into the familiar pattern of directing all energy and attention toward MiX, which I am learning is at the very least anti-town, if not necessarily scum behavior. A challenge to all: Talk about any other player as much as you talk about MiX!

This is Robz's post before he votes for you, he specifically says focusing on MiX is "not necessarily scummy". He doesn't lay out why he votes for you but it's a huge leap of logic to say that Robz's attitude here is "all MiX voters are scummy"
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #242 on: September 28, 2020, 08:28:39 am »

It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

I would like to add that the people who said they townread me all did so after Glooble was already voting, so his choices were to double down or look like he was caving under pressure, and it's not impossible for scum to pick the first one
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faust

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #243 on: September 28, 2020, 08:29:11 am »

It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

Sure doesn't seem to be helping Glooble.
Fact check: The votes on Glooble actually predate his push for ADK.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #244 on: September 28, 2020, 08:29:38 am »

It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

Sure doesn't seem to be helping Glooble.

This is a weird thing to say about a player that has two votes on them
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Glooble

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #245 on: September 28, 2020, 08:32:35 am »


These two statements contradict each other: ADK didn't turn the arguments against you, Robz did, with his vote.

Yeah, and ADK jumped right in line. That's so much more a scum play than a town play. With an IC like Robz, scum cares about putting themselves in town's crosshairs by opposing them. Town sticks to their convictions. My conviction at the time was that MiX was acting scummy. I stuck to it. ADK changed their conviction to something that would make them look better.

It's totally fine to stop scumreading someone because new information is offered. That's totally different from immediately flipping when you realize you've taken a position that the IC disagrees with.
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #246 on: September 28, 2020, 08:53:57 am »


These two statements contradict each other: ADK didn't turn the arguments against you, Robz did, with his vote.

Yeah, and ADK jumped right in line. That's so much more a scum play than a town play. With an IC like Robz, scum cares about putting themselves in town's crosshairs by opposing them. Town sticks to their convictions. My conviction at the time was that MiX was acting scummy. I stuck to it. ADK changed their conviction to something that would make them look better.

It's totally fine to stop scumreading someone because new information is offered. That's totally different from immediately flipping when you realize you've taken a position that the IC disagrees with.

I am by no means townreading MiX, but your "sheeping the IC is scummy" line came off to me as the lazy sort of argument that scum goes for when they have pressure on themie

The whole "how you position yourself with respect to the IC" argument is subject to a lot of WIFOM because everyone is very aware of it. You could just as easily say that scum wants an opportunity to go against the IC because that will make them seem townie
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EFHW

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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #247 on: September 28, 2020, 10:00:32 am »

Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?

Do we know why Robz voted for you? ADK's vote was part joke. I don't know what percentage.

Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

vote: glooble

You seem to be taking ADK's vote on you more personally than MiX's. Why is that? Your following him to the MiX wagon initially seems to be relevant?
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #248 on: September 28, 2020, 10:24:16 am »


You seem to be taking ADK's vote on you more personally than MiX's. Why is that? Your following him to the MiX wagon initially seems to be relevant?

I'm not sure. MiX's vote feels like MiX being wrong. MiX and I misread eachother most games we're both in, it's almost a meme at this point. ADK's vote feels like ADK opportunistically setting me up.
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Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
« Reply #249 on: September 28, 2020, 10:24:46 am »

To be clear, my vote was 0% joke
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