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Author Topic: Paired Attack  (Read 6208 times)

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jimjam

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Paired Attack
« on: March 24, 2012, 09:33:55 pm »
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You have Militia and Witch in hand, and two actions left. Usually you would want to play Witch first, since you don't want to draw anything dead. When would it be better to play Militia first?
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Morgrim7

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 10:34:59 pm »
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You have just played posession and found out that in this hand your opponent has a trader and a bunch of really good treasures and actions. Play militia so your opponent will discard the trader, ensuring that he won't be able to gain a silver instead of a curse.
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ycz6

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 11:45:24 pm »
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Adding on to Morgrim's solution: Bureaucrat and Cutpurse will also do to get a look at their hand. Or you've just been keeping careful track of their deck.

A more convoluted solution: You are playing a 3-player game where the scores are

You (1st player): 100
Alice, to your left: 0
Bob, to your right: 100

or, you know, something like that. There are two piles empty, including Estates, and one Curse left. You play the Militia, hoping to see that Alice has a Moat and, ideally, that Bob doesn't, so you don't accidentally give the last curse to Alice and lose on turns.
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jimjam

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 11:53:25 pm »
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Here's a stricter criterion (though general solutions are still welcome):
What if you knew for sure that they had a moat?
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jomini

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2012, 02:10:33 am »
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Quote
Here's a stricter criterion (though general solutions are still welcome):
What if you knew for sure that they had a moat?


You are close to ending on golds(one left), curses (two left) & tunnels (already empty).

Say you know your next two cards are dross and you  have 4 coin already played (say from pawns). Playing militia would get you to 6 coin and a 10 point fairground. If you play witch, then militia, your opponent can take a curse (moat being optional) and then discard a tunnel for a gold. On his turn he can then buy a curse and win (say he's up by 11, but has a mostly dead deck).

If you play militia first you can see if he discards a tunnel or not. If he doesn't then you can safely play witch (and draw two green cards) increasing your odds of getting a game winning fairgrounds next turn. If he does discard for a gold, you can not play witch and prevent an auto-lose situation.

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Morgrim7

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2012, 10:14:31 am »
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You had previously played a vault. You know that he has a moat, but you don't know whether or not he had discarded it to get an extra card, so you play militia first, to find out.
Does this work?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 10:21:00 am by Morgrim7 »
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Young Nick

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 07:42:25 pm »
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This is a bit of a different solution...but what if you know (via scout, for example) that you have a KC on top of your deck. You have $2 in hand and by playing Witch first you can KC your Militia to buy a Province.

Edit: Dur, that made no sense. Forget I posted.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 08:43:36 pm by Young Nick »
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jimjam

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 08:32:51 pm »
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jomini got the answer i was thinking of (though in general I think that gaining a curse and a Gold is not good so you don't need that whole setup).

Morgrim, what would you do if they had moat, just not play witch? Edit: I guess if you didn't want to trigger a reshuffle it would be better to not play witch.

Young Nick: In most situations the witch would come first.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 08:37:50 pm by jimjam »
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WrathOfGlod

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 08:41:35 pm »
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You know that your opponent has in his hand:
Moat-Moat-menagerie-Plat-Gold (Or two other extremely powerful cards).
In this case when you play militia he will want to discard and probably will discard both moats which opens up your witch (whether it is better to play nothing is open to debate but it is better to play militia first)
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Tmoiy

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 10:28:32 pm »
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If you know that your opponent has a Trader or Watchtower along with another terminal action, then you may want to play the Militia first, hoping that he discards the reaction.
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Morgrim7

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 10:46:04 pm »
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If you know that your opponent has a Trader or Watchtower along with another terminal action, then you may want to play the Militia first, hoping that he discards the reaction.
This is the exact same solution as my first one.
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Tmoiy

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 02:37:57 am »
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Fair enough. I thought that you might be doing something more complicated with Possession, because that part of your solution didn't make sense to me.
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Markov Chain

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2012, 11:14:07 pm »
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I might even decline to play Witch at all, and that could be reasonable.

Consider the following:

21 total cards, hand is Village/Witch/Militia/Province/Gold.

Play Village, draw Philosopher's Stone.

The Philosopher's Stone is worth 3, but will drop to 2 if you draw any cards.  Thus, you can buy a Province by playing the Militia if you don't play the Witch, but you might lose it if the Witch draws two victory cards, curses, potions, or actions that you can't use for more money than the Militia's 2.
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jotheonah

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2012, 06:21:34 am »
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Very simple solution:

You have no cards in your deck.
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Ozle

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2012, 07:10:10 am »
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Very simple solution:

You have no cards in your deck.

But then it doesnt matter which order you want to play them in does it? Where as the challenge specifically asked for Militia first.


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DStu

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2012, 07:32:37 am »
+3

You have a second Militia and a Menagerie in hand...
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jotheonah

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2012, 08:14:28 am »
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Very simple solution:

You have no cards in your deck.

But then it doesnt matter which order you want to play them in does it? Where as the challenge specifically asked for Militia first.

False. The Militia has a chance of making them discard a Trader or Watchtower, thus making the Witch more effective, whereas, if you don't stand to draw any cards, there's no advantage to playing the Witch first.
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Axxle

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2012, 05:40:39 pm »
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Very simple solution:

You have no cards in your deck.

But then it doesnt matter which order you want to play them in does it? Where as the challenge specifically asked for Militia first.

False. The Militia has a chance of making them discard a Trader or Watchtower, thus making the Witch more effective, whereas, if you don't stand to draw any cards, there's no advantage to playing the Witch first.
Not too simple of a solution, also, if you have no cards in your deck then they know you're going to play the witch.
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Ozle

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2012, 05:58:03 pm »
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Also, what difference does whether you have cards in your deck make? Your playing the mlitia and the with anyways. So the drawing two cards makes little difference when
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eHalcyon

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2012, 06:12:12 pm »
+1

Very simple solution:

You have no cards in your deck.

But then it doesnt matter which order you want to play them in does it? Where as the challenge specifically asked for Militia first.

False. The Militia has a chance of making them discard a Trader or Watchtower, thus making the Witch more effective, whereas, if you don't stand to draw any cards, there's no advantage to playing the Witch first.
Not too simple of a solution, also, if you have no cards in your deck then they know you're going to play the witch.

It doesn't matter if they know that the Witch is coming -- playing Militia first is still better for you when you have no cards to draw.  Suppose their hand is Gold-Gold-Silver-Trader-Estate.  If you play Witch first, they can block the Curse with Trader and then discard Trader-Estate with enough left to buy a Province.  If you play Militia first, they must either drop the Trader and take the Curse or keep the Trader and miss the Province.
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Axxle

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Re: Paired Attack
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2012, 06:14:33 pm »
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...

It doesn't matter if they know that the Witch is coming -- playing Militia first is still better for you when you have no cards to draw.  Suppose their hand is Gold-Gold-Silver-Trader-Estate.  If you play Witch first, they can block the Curse with Trader and then discard Trader-Estate with enough left to buy a Province.  If you play Militia first, they must either drop the Trader and take the Curse or keep the Trader and miss the Province.
Ah, right.
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