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Author Topic: Dominion: Urbanisation  (Read 2445 times)

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mxdata

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2020, 07:35:25 pm »
+2

Appraiser would make a nice combo with Rats.  Rats turn your trash into other Rats, and then Appraiser turns those Rats into 2 VP each
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X-tra

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2020, 08:30:18 pm »
+1

Card set #4

          


     

     

     


     

     

     


We now have people working and living in your empire. However, they need mobility to get things done. Horses, Sir, horses. Let us utilize the raw strength of our animal brethren. Here are some ways to achieve that…


  • Handler (my other thread): Like I said in my other thread, the clear inspiration with Handler is Druid. It works just like Druid, except that you have a choice of 3 Ways to do stuff instead of 3 Boons. Oh or I guess you could cantrip it if you’re not interested to play one of the set aside Ways that turn. So, in a way (harr harr), Handler could end up being something like: “Choose one: +2 Actions; or +2 Cards; or +; or +1 Card and +1 Action”. Not a bad deal for . There are certain games where Handler is more potent than others, but the same can be said about Druid. For instance, if Way of the Pig is one of the set aside Ways, then Handler looses 1/3 of its decision power. Not too good. But if Way of the Goat is one of the set aside Ways and is the only trasher on the board, then Handler becomes a lot more attractive.

  • Stallions (Weekly Contest thread): All these beautiful horses! Here, we have something akin to the Castle pile: A Kingdom consisting of all different cards, ordered by their cost. Here, though, it’s (mostly) all Action cards. So Stallions, I suspect, will be bought quicker than Castles. Each Stallion dispatches Horses, with the exception of the guy on the bottom, Arabian Horse (and I guess Paint Horse gives Horses to your opponents rather than yourself).

    Shetland Pony is a strong opener for the Stallion pile. It temps you to uncover the trasher, Clydesdale, which is also attractive. Clydesdale then opens the way for Appaloosa, which exploits the stuff Clydesdale will trash. After this nice little chain reaction of these Stallions paving the way for the next one, we arrive to the engine cards, Paint Horse and Gypsy Vanner. Paint Horse is strong for its cost (a Lab+), but gives your opponents Horses, not unlike Bargain. Gypsy Vanner, meanwhile, helps you not returning your Horses to their pile while still doing what they would’ve done in the first place.

    As you dig deeper in the Stallion pile, you’ll start uncovering the bottom Victory cards. It all ends on Arabian Horse, who rewards you for keeping Horses in your deck. It isn’t too hard to score 9 to 12 with it, especially if you got your hand on the powerful Mustang or Friesian. Everyone should have a shot at getting an Arabian Horse without being denied theirs, hence why Arabian Horses only work if you have exactly one copy of it in your deck. You could technically buy a second one and trash it afterwards (with Clydesdale, for instance). That’s big brain enough for me to accept this as a valid strategy. It is dang expensive and time consuming to do so after all!

  • Courser (Discord card): Our second Attack shown thus far. And our first Curser! Not the last one, though... Anyway. Courser did not use to give a Horse when played. But then, people rightfully told me how weak this was. So now, Courser looks like this.

    So, Courser introduces a weird twist on Curses. A mean one, should I add. Trashers won’t be enough to remove Curses out of the game’s circulation. Courser will re-add them back in the Supply and the wheel won’t stop turning. You can even do crazy stuff like this: On an empty Curse pile, play a Junk Dealer, trash your Curse, return said Curse to the Supply with a Courser and then give it to your opponent. That Curse basically travelled from your hand onto the other player’s discard pile! Courser can be a little political in 4-players or more game, since one or more player(s) won’t be affected by the return of the 2 Curses into the Supply. I’m okay with that, though. Let’s remember that Ambassador is a thing, y’know.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 08:22:20 pm by X-tra »
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D782802859

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2020, 08:46:38 pm »
0

Handler has a lot of duds. Butterfly, Chameleon, Frog, Camel, Worm, Rat, and Turtle are all useless or mostly useless.
The Stallions are a bit overly pushed, to the point that they're probably dominating.
Courser is probably reasonable.
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2020, 11:14:55 pm »
+1

Handler has a lot of duds. Butterfly, Chameleon, Frog, Camel, Worm, Rat, and Turtle are all useless or mostly useless.
How are those duds?

If the set aside Ways are Chameleon, Sheep, and Squirrel, you can play it as Way of the Chameleon and then as one of the other two. So it essentially turns your three choices into four: Sheep, Squirrel, Chameleon'ed Sheep, and Chameleon'ed Squirrel.

The only ones I see as being duds are Butterfly (because buying a $2-cost to exchange it for a $3-cost is usually a silly idea) and Pig (because Handler already has the +1 Card, +1 Action option).

Ways like Worm and Camel would only rarely be used, but each one is only one of three options. Rat could be good if the other two set aside Ways are good.

(I like Handler and in the other thread, I argued that it could easily cost $3.)

About the other two cards:
The Stallions look fine, but not especially interesting. Appaloosa is weird. Why would it give you more Horses for gaining a silver from the trash rather than a copper?
With Courser, I really don't like the idea of returning curses from the trash to the supply. It's nice to have a period of the game where the curse pile is empty and cursing attacks are dead.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 11:26:18 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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D782802859

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2020, 07:21:45 am »
0

Handler has a lot of duds. Butterfly, Chameleon, Frog, Camel, Worm, Rat, and Turtle are all useless or mostly useless.
How are those duds?

If the set aside Ways are Chameleon, Sheep, and Squirrel, you can play it as Way of the Chameleon and then as one of the other two. So it essentially turns your three choices into four: Sheep, Squirrel, Chameleon'ed Sheep, and Chameleon'ed Squirrel.

The only ones I see as being duds are Butterfly (because buying a $2-cost to exchange it for a $3-cost is usually a silly idea) and Pig (because Handler already has the +1 Card, +1 Action option).

Ways like Worm and Camel would only rarely be used, but each one is only one of three options. Rat could be good if the other two set aside Ways are good.

(I like Handler and in the other thread, I argued that it could easily cost $3.)

About the other two cards:
The Stallions look fine, but not especially interesting. Appaloosa is weird. Why would it give you more Horses for gaining a silver from the trash rather than a copper?
With Courser, I really don't like the idea of returning curses from the trash to the supply. It's nice to have a period of the game where the curse pile is empty and cursing attacks are dead.

Chameleon wouldn't cause the Way used by Handler to be affected.
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2020, 08:47:10 am »
0

Handler has a lot of duds. Butterfly, Chameleon, Frog, Camel, Worm, Rat, and Turtle are all useless or mostly useless.
How are those duds?

If the set aside Ways are Chameleon, Sheep, and Squirrel, you can play it as Way of the Chameleon and then as one of the other two. So it essentially turns your three choices into four: Sheep, Squirrel, Chameleon'ed Sheep, and Chameleon'ed Squirrel.

Chameleon wouldn't cause the Way used by Handler to be affected.

Are you sure? Why not?

GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2020, 09:40:59 am »
+2

Handler has a lot of duds. Butterfly, Chameleon, Frog, Camel, Worm, Rat, and Turtle are all useless or mostly useless.
How are those duds?

If the set aside Ways are Chameleon, Sheep, and Squirrel, you can play it as Way of the Chameleon and then as one of the other two. So it essentially turns your three choices into four: Sheep, Squirrel, Chameleon'ed Sheep, and Chameleon'ed Squirrel.

Chameleon wouldn't cause the Way used by Handler to be affected.

Are you sure? Why not?

I had written up a whole post going into detail about why you couldn't use multiple of the set-aside ways at once last night, when I realized why Chameleon was different and you were right in the first place, so I just didn't post it. I'm guessing D782802859 has the same mix-up I did.

Because the set-aside ways aren't actually in the game in the same way that a normal way would be, you can't just use one of them any time you play an action. But with Chameleon, you are told to follow Handler's instructions, which involves choosing a set-aside way (again).

I would say Handler with Chameleon is actually far too messy to be really usable. If you choose Chameleon, and then choose Chameleon again, I guess that would just switch your and cards back to how they were originally? Nothing stops you from choosing Chameleon forever... although I guess that the Menagerie rulebook also failed to stop you from choosing Mouse forever, and it was only a special ruling by Donald that said you can't do that.

*Edit* Now I re-read D782802859's comment and think that there's more to this... he wasn't mixed up int he same way I was. Chameleon only affects "each time that would give you..." The "that" in that sentence is "following this card's instructions". When you use a way, you aren't "following this card's instructions" anymore. As seen by this long discussion. However, this depends on the specific intent behind how Handler's wording works... because it's using a wording that is different from normal ways. It says to "play this as" one of the set-aside ways. That's like old Band of Misfits wording, which would actually cause you to re-play the card.

I assumed however that the intent of Handler was to treat the set-aside ways just like a normal way in the game, meaning you can choose to follow their instructions instead of Handler's instructions. The whole "play this as a way" is weird and not quite sure what it means. A possible wording that makes it clearer and also removes the weird potential Chameleon interaction (making it weak with Chameleon):

Quote
Handler
Action -

+1 Card
+1 Action
--------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Set aside 3 Ways face up. These Ways are available to be used this game when you play Handler.

I'm guessing that this was the intended behavior of Handler.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 09:49:35 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2020, 10:20:29 am »
+2

Interesting discussion about Handler. I had definitely foreseen the infinite “Way of the Chameleon play”, but had ruled in my head that this case would be tackled in the rulebook (if one existed) or something.

Didn’t see the impossibility of replaying another Way with the effects of Way of the Chameleon applied, though. To me, Handler morphs into one of the set aside Way, it’s not just “playing it as”, like it would with a normal Way. GendoIkari is right, Handler interacts with its set aside Ways differently. I would love for Chameleon to be able to work as imagined. Playing a Handler as Way of the Chameleon, replaying him as Way of the Sheep for +2 Cards, for instance. Again, I believe that a little mention of that scenario in the rulebook isn’t too far fetched and would be, dare I say, acceptable? It’s debatable if this special case deviates from the normal rules too much. It looks tolerable to me, I guess.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 10:23:52 am by X-tra »
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2020, 01:14:56 pm »
+1

I am not a fan of Courser. I think junking games without trashing are already brutal enough. Having a card that makes that effectively happen more often doesn't sound like any fun. I get that it's sort of novel, but not in a way I would enjoy.

Lots of these other cards seem cool though.
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2020, 01:57:50 pm »
0

Courser could be phrased as something like „each other player gains a Curse; if the Curse Supply is empty, they gain a Curse from the trash instead“ to make it scale better across the number of players. As the card is weakfish vanilla-wise, it can most likely get away with refilling Curses.

I don’t think that Handler necessarily needs the cantrip option.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 01:58:51 pm by segura »
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2020, 03:22:47 pm »
0


Quote
Handler
Action -

+1 Card
+1 Action
--------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Set aside 3 Ways face up. These Ways are available to be used this game when you play Handler.


Another possible wording: "On turns when you play Handler, you may use these Ways." This is actually a buff (means you can use Ways on non-Handlers on the same turn) but reads more clearly to me.

I think that manipulating below-the-line text to allow Handler to use the Ways without expressly stating "you may play this as a Way" above-the-line is the right thing to do, regardless of exact wording.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2020, 05:41:42 pm »
+2


Quote
Handler
Action -

+1 Card
+1 Action
--------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Set aside 3 Ways face up. These Ways are available to be used this game when you play Handler.


Another possible wording: "On turns when you play Handler, you may use these Ways." This is actually a buff (means you can use Ways on non-Handlers on the same turn) but reads more clearly to me.

I think that manipulating below-the-line text to allow Handler to use the Ways without expressly stating "you may play this as a Way" above-the-line is the right thing to do, regardless of exact wording.

The problem with that wording is that "on turns when you play Handler" isn't clear; it sounds like if you were going to play Handler at any time during the turn, then it should work for that whole turn. I assume what you really mean is that it works from the time you play Handler until the end of turn. It could basically be something like this:

Quote
Handler
Action -

+1 Card
+1 Action
--------------------------------------------------------
While this is in play, the set-aside Ways are in the game.
--------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Set aside 3 Ways face up.

When you play it the very first time, it's already in play before you are following any instructions, so you could choose to use one of the Ways immediately instead of the +1 Card +1 Action.
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2020, 10:14:41 am »
0

I am not a fan of Courser. I think junking games without trashing are already brutal enough. Having a card that makes that effectively happen more often doesn't sound like any fun. I get that it's sort of novel, but not in a way I would enjoy.
Wouldn’t these sort of games be acceptable considering that Courser is just the one card keeping Curses alive longer amongst a metric ton of other cards? Wouldn’t these games be unique because of Courser’s presence? And even then, there would need to be a trasher in these games for Courser to do its full thing. Mountebank is perhaps my most disliked card since it leads to overly long and annoying games, but he rarely pops into my games, so when he does, I’m alright.

I think that manipulating below-the-line text to allow Handler to use the Ways without expressly stating "you may play this as a Way" above-the-line is the right thing to do, regardless of exact wording.
Handler has the “play the Ways” clause above the dividing line to mirror the way Druid is worded. A lot of people have questioned why Handler has a cantrip option in the first place and I’m finding myself more and more agreeing with them. I may attempt a non-cantrip one.


By the way, forum user Something_Smart pointed out to me in Discord that 2 of the Horses were missing a “from your hand” clause, so here’s the fixed versions:

     
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2020, 04:51:51 pm »
0


Quote
Handler
Action -

+1 Card
+1 Action
--------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Set aside 3 Ways face up. These Ways are available to be used this game when you play Handler.


Another possible wording: "On turns when you play Handler, you may use these Ways." This is actually a buff (means you can use Ways on non-Handlers on the same turn) but reads more clearly to me.

I think that manipulating below-the-line text to allow Handler to use the Ways without expressly stating "you may play this as a Way" above-the-line is the right thing to do, regardless of exact wording.

The problem with that wording is that "on turns when you play Handler" isn't clear; it sounds like if you were going to play Handler at any time during the turn, then it should work for that whole turn. I assume what you really mean is that it works from the time you play Handler until the end of turn. It could basically be something like this:

Quote
Handler
Action -

+1 Card
+1 Action
--------------------------------------------------------
While this is in play, the set-aside Ways are in the game.
--------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Set aside 3 Ways face up.

When you play it the very first time, it's already in play before you are following any instructions, so you could choose to use one of the Ways immediately instead of the +1 Card +1 Action.

TWO below-the-line effects? The madness!

(Makes sense to me. I do think "on turns when you play Handler" is clear enough for Dominion-ese, but hey.)


I think that manipulating below-the-line text to allow Handler to use the Ways without expressly stating "you may play this as a Way" above-the-line is the right thing to do, regardless of exact wording.
Handler has the “play the Ways” clause above the dividing line to mirror the way Druid is worded. A lot of people have questioned why Handler has a cantrip option in the first place and I’m finding myself more and more agreeing with them. I may attempt a non-cantrip one.


The verbiage for "taking" and "receiving" a Boon is well-defined; the verbiage for "playing this as a Way" is only a shorthand (that the online client uses) as far as I know, and is not well-defined. That's why the original wording feels strange to me.
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2020, 08:21:20 pm »
0

Card set #5

          

Urbanisation has its fair share of junking and provides ways to deal with that. What if a nasty plague hits your newly built cities? What to do with those lazy aristocrats sucking the productivity of your lands in their rich Estates? Some solutions: Lend your Estates for a healthy profit and relocate your sick people to your crappy-nobody-cares-about towns!


  • Junk Village (Discord card): “It’s strong”, a little voice tells me. “Way too strong”, she continues. Then she realises that Junk Village does not draw. And that’s kind of a big shortcoming. In our play testing games, it was neat to Village and trash at once, but as the game progressed, we were getting more and more disgruntled to have a weaker Shanty Town in our hands. I guess this is why this village is so junky to begin with. Oh and, the +Buy is thematic, I guess (trash some crap to reshape it into some kind of weird scummy economy), but it’s mostly, in reality, a consolidation prize to boost it above a simple Necropolis.

  • Lease (Weekly Contest thread): It’s Moneylender, but for Estates! Will you be able to connect your Lease with your starting Estates in your first reshuffle? I dunno, ask Baron. He tries to do that stuff all the time. Except, I guess, that Baron does something if he fails, but w/e. Moneylender doesn’t and neither does Lease. So, I guess it’s a weird cross between Moneylender and Baron, in a way.

    All in all, Baron has the possibility of giving you your sweet continuously. Lease trashes your crap and frees your deck though. It’s a choice to make, I guess.

  • Plague Doctor (my other thread): No no, it’s not the Doctor that’s being mean here! A plague hits the lands (the Curse part) and next turn, your Plague Doctors are prepared, ready and sent to try to cure it (the Duration part). They look scary, but they want to do good.

    So, the card. 3rd Attack of the set. That’s already more than Renaissance. It’s also the second Curser shown thus far. And it’s a non-terminal one, spicy! Okay, you gotta wait next turn, but it’s not impossible to dance around a couple of Plague Doctors to always start with 2 Actions or more. In the end, Plague Doctor really is just a Fishing Village that instead Curses on the turn you play it. That’s enough of a change, in my opinion, to buff the price up to .

« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 07:23:52 pm by X-tra »
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2020, 01:09:13 am »
0

I never got Coven, it is simply Cultist-level broken in too many Kingdoms (ironically Cultist is likely broken because it is semi-non-terminal).
Nocturne could get away with so many non-terminal Attack cards because Hexes are weak and random. But non-terminal Cursers are in my opinion not something you should do except for good reasons.

Plague Doctor is weak-ish vanilla-wise but you can easily imagine Kingdoms where you prefer it over Witch because terminal space is so scarce. And it feels weird and artifical to buff it via making it non-terminal and then nerf it via making it a Duration.
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2020, 12:20:15 pm »
+3

I like the simplicity of each of these cards.

I wonder if Lease should be cheaper, or have a secondary effect that isn't dependent on trashing Estates. Moneylender, in the absence of other trashing, will continue to do something for many shuffles. The probability of Lease doing something after trashing even one Estate goes down significantly.

Lease could be more similar to Baron, granting you the option to gain Estates and/or providing +Buy. It could be cheaper: perhaps a 3-cost Lease that allows you to also grab a 4-cost in the opener. (Optionally it could grant less +$ in this case.)
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2020, 01:24:26 pm »
+1

Hrmm yeah. I guess Lease is done way quicker than Moneylender is. My first draft was to have it give a Vanilla + and grant an extra upon trashing an Estate. Splitting the bonus into a more consistent payload, basically. That way, once its done trashing stuff, it turns into a sad Flag Bearer. Another possibility would be to have it give you an Estate on-gain, but I'm unsure about that. I just want it to not be too close to Baron, this is why I'm avoiding the +Buy here. And, as you'll see over the next days, there are a lot of +Buy cards in Urbanisation (one of the thematic approach actually)!

As for Plague Doctor, I'm okay with the non-terminiality of it. Sometimes, it's a cool way to shift games toward Attack chaining without Dominion completely breaking. Certain cards may be centralising in certain games, and I'm not too afraid to let Plague Doctor be one of them if it comes to that. There was non-terminal Vigil before too, but you already convinced me to give it +2 Cards instead. :D
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 01:25:35 pm by X-tra »
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2020, 02:02:50 pm »
0

I think that Lease is fine. It runs out earlier than Moneylender respectively misses more often, but it also provides 2 more Coins.
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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2020, 07:22:48 pm »
0

Card set #6

          

Buying is fine, Sir, but what if we could accelerate that process? Here's some ideas to acquire new cool stuff without even spending a penny! Our economic advisors will be more than pleased!


  • Draft (my other thread): The card of the set, because why not? When you play a Draft, you will have an extra buy, so you can always use that one to grab a new Draft. The cycle can continue like that until the Draft pile get emptied. Its mere null cost with its +Buy means that the Draft pile could be short lived if a lot of players invest into it. Its mere presence can threaten a 3-pile ending.

    Other than that, it gains a card, reinforcing the 3-pile thingy if you keep getting cards from a cantrip pile. It’s not a very good gainer, but hey, it’s free and it recycles itself!

  • Hoarder (Weekly Contest thread): Sleep tight people, that’s our first Night card of the set! And… it’s another Attack. We’re up to what, 4 now? And… it’s another non-terminal Attack, joining the rank of Plague Doctor! Vigil would’ve been up there too, but he has changed since the inception of this thread. Here, the Attack is nooooot too mean, mostly to account for the fact that multiple Hoarders could be spammed in one turn (like Vampire can be). I mean, if the first Hoarder hits you and you must gain a Copper to your hand, then you can simply discard that same Copper if another Hoarder hits you. So Hoarder only Attacks 1 time out of 2 at best. And being junked by Coppers is always a tiny notch better than being junked with, oh I dunno, Curses? Hi Plague Doctor and Courser!

    Then there’s the gain part. The part where you actually get something out of Hoarder. Not unlike the rest of the cards shown in this set, he gains stuff for you and he does it à la Courtier. He cares about card variety in play. And Hoarder, coincidently, always count for 2 of those card types (Night and Attack). Play an Action, put some Treasures in play to buy something and then finish it up with a Hoarder and most of the time, he’ll gain you something costing . Add something neat like a Duration (Plague Doctor) or a Stallion (Shetland Pony) and suddenly, you’re gaining cards with Hoarder. And it can go higher than that! It’s even possible to straight up grab a Province with Hoarder, though you’ll have to work hard for it and it won’t be true in most games he appears in.

  • Overwork (Discord card): Ladies and gentlemen, a card cost increaser. The impossible thing to do since Livery (and frowned upon even before that because of the weird interaction with cost decreasing cards). Here, though, it’s limited to your hand. Goodbye game-breaking Horse/Livery shenanigan! Overwork’s pretty neat in the sense that as your hand increases in value, you’ll be able to transform some of your stuff into disproportionally higher costing cards. A Copper overworked into a Duchy, for instance, is totally doable here. Overwork, with a little help from other cards, can thus surpass Expand in all of its remodeling glory. I’m sure there’s other card interactions hidden here, but I don’t know too much about that still. If some of you can find a way that Overwork can break, please let me know!




⚠ From the next set of cards onward, 2 cards will be from my other thread and the other one will be a Weekly Design Contest card. I have run out of Discord card to show. ⚠
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 06:39:49 pm by X-tra »
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D782802859

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2020, 08:24:36 pm »
+1

Draft might be a bit crazy at draining piles, especially since you can gain extra copies of it by using the extra buy.
Hoarder is reasonable, albeit on the weak end. You can usually get it to 4 types, so it's mostly a Workshop.
Overwork is pretty strong, functionally being a Remodel with +2 Cards that improves.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2020, 08:29:24 pm »
0

Draft is fine. I like the idea of Overwork, but I think it's too strong. The second one you play in a turn is like an Expand with +2 Cards.
Hoarder needs to be limited to gaining non-victory cards or else it gains provinces way too easily in games with any cards that have several types (or else trash itself like HoP when gaining victory cards).

LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2020, 12:23:45 am »
0

I am not a fan of Courser. I think junking games without trashing are already brutal enough. Having a card that makes that effectively happen more often doesn't sound like any fun. I get that it's sort of novel, but not in a way I would enjoy.
Wouldn’t these sort of games be acceptable considering that Courser is just the one card keeping Curses alive longer amongst a metric ton of other cards? Wouldn’t these games be unique because of Courser’s presence? And even then, there would need to be a trasher in these games for Courser to do its full thing. Mountebank is perhaps my most disliked card since it leads to overly long and annoying games, but he rarely pops into my games, so when he does, I’m alright.

You could use that logic to defend any terrible, no-fun card as long as it was unique. Yeah Courser is academically interesting and it's one card out of 500 or whatever, but that doesn't mean it's worth making if games with it are mostly bad. And to be clear I'm not defending Mountebank, though personally I tend to like Mountebank games fine these days.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2020, 12:59:52 am »
0

Courser would be more interesting if it only gave Curses from the trash, and it trashed curses by some other method. You still get the interaction but it's limited.

Something like:

Courser
Action/Attack - $4
+$2
Trash a card from your hand.
If there aren't more other players than Curses in the trash, each other player gains a Curse from the trash.
-
When you gain this, you may exchange any number of Victory Cards from your hand for Curses
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2020, 03:38:57 am »
+1

I assume you mean for Hoarder to be an attack? The current phrasing has "may" before everything the opponents do and thus suggests that they could just opt to do nothing. Suggested wording:

"Each other player may discard a Copper from their hand. If they didn't, they gain a Copper to their hand."

It takes a bunch of work to get Hoarder up to being able to gain Provinces even on boards where it is possible, so I don't necessarily think it is overpowered; there are other Province-gaining combos after all. Something that could be a problem though is that it's best with the two mixed piles - Castles and Knights - and those can easily lead to situations where one player is able to play Hoarder for Provinces and the others aren't because the only Action-Victory cards got sniped.

An idea would be to change the Copper attack to a Looter, that adds more types into the game immediately and makes the attack more interesting because the opponents might benefit from gaining Ruins.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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