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Author Topic: Dominion: Urbanisation  (Read 3075 times)

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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #75 on: September 24, 2020, 10:23:30 am »
0

Here is what a non-limited Monarch with unchanged cantrip Victory cards would look like:



Note that without the limitation, it is possible to pull so weird stuff with Monarch. For instance:
  • A single Princess (or 2 Highways) + Advance can make you gain a Province by trashing one of your useless Successor or what have you.
  • A Lurker can trash and gain from the trash a Colony.
  • Quarry reduces the price of every Base Victory card in the Supply.
  • Disciple can play a Colony twice and gain a copy of it.
  • Colonies or Provinces can be Ferried.
  • Colonies can be targeted with Transport or Invest, cheaply Exiling and acquiring them for or respectively.
And it goes on. :)
You can prevent a lot of those just by saying "your Victory cards are also Actions..."

X-tra

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #76 on: September 24, 2020, 11:01:36 am »
0

You can prevent a lot of those just by saying "your Victory cards are also Actions..."
It used to be worded like that. But then it had the same problem as old Inheritance had, something user Something_Smart pointed out to me. Modifying "your" cards can lead to weirdness when cards are played while not in play. This is the whole reason Donald based Inherited Estates on who's turn it is rather than who owns them. Monarch follows these steps to avoid these potential issues.

I never minded dropping the cost restriction of Monarch, but it is at the risk of having a race to Exile Colonies or what have you with Transport when he comes in play.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 11:11:18 am by X-tra »
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #77 on: September 24, 2020, 11:54:44 am »
0

Imagine if you put Adventures tokens on the Estate pile  :o
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #78 on: September 24, 2020, 11:59:46 am »
0

I never minded dropping the cost restriction of Monarch, but it is at the risk of having a race to Exile Colonies or what have you with Transport when he comes in play.

Not that different from a race for a +card token that's normal with teacher.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #79 on: September 24, 2020, 12:00:01 pm »
0

You can prevent a lot of those just by saying "your Victory cards are also Actions..."
It used to be worded like that. But then it had the same problem as old Inheritance had, something user Something_Smart pointed out to me. Modifying "your" cards can lead to weirdness when cards are played while not in play. This is the whole reason Donald based Inherited Estates on who's turn it is rather than who owns them. Monarch follows these steps to avoid these potential issues.

I never minded dropping the cost restriction of Monarch, but it is at the risk of having a race to Exile Colonies or what have you with Transport when he comes in play.
oh well. I still use Inheritance with the old wording and never saw a problem with it.
EDIT: seems to me, the new wording causes more problems than the old wording in this case.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 01:08:59 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2020, 12:53:15 am »
0

A single Princess would make province an Action card, with the old version. If you then played Quarry, its cost reduction would affect Province even if you Bonfired your Princess! Weird stuff.
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X-tra

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2020, 08:20:54 pm »
+1

Card set #9

          



These cards above are just no mere Duration cards. For a shady specialty shop has opened in your lands: in it, you hope, an exclusive way to hire the services of some nasty people with nasty ways of dealing with your nasty neighbours. Nasty.


  • Specialty Shop (Weekly Contest thread): A rule-bender if Iíve seen one. During setup, the mat shown above will be furbished with 3 randomly picked cards. It could be riddled with cheap little boogers like House; or it could hold the almighty powerful Ballroom. One thingís for sure though: the cards put there must cost at least to avoid weird buying problems Iíve face before. So no Overlord, Vineyard, Transmute or even Draft on the mat.

    Once you commit to Specialty Shops, you set them aside when played. Youíll have 3 each turn, which you can then use to purchase exclusive Shop mat cards by using one of your buys. is used and depleted like is. Itís a by-turn resource that you have in limited quantity. However, with 2 Buys and 1 set-aside Specialty Shop, you could buy a Poor House and a Vagrant if both of them are on the Shop mat. Or you could buy a Village from the Shop mat and another card from the Supply using your . So you split your buys however you want as you would normally. Yes, there are weird overpaying, Potion and Debt cases with cards on the Shop mat. Peddler also messes with it a little. But everything should work, though. If youíre curious about how such behaviours are tackled, do ask!

    Specialty Shop is a card that varies in strength. An investment in them may or may not be worth it, it is up to you to decide. Itís basically a Black Market where you can see a static choice of the 3 cards you can buy even before playing it. If Ballroom or Kingís Court are on the mat, remember that youíll need at least 3 Specialty Shops on the side to buy them (unless, of course, youíve played some cost reduction Actions before).


  • Custodian (my other thread): Ah, the good old Custodian. Hasnít changed one bit since my last thread! Heís also the 5th Attack card shown thus far. This is getting out of hand. Could this perhaps be a subtheme of Urbanisation :) ? Tithe just below has a thing or two to say about that (in support of).

    Custodian is the 3rd and final Night card of Urbanisation. This means that Custodian is yet another non-terminal Attack. It wouldíve been the 4th one had Vigil not changed. A lot of people have raised concerns against Custodian and how he can be too nasty used in the right context. How a couple of them can lock away turns from others, especially with games of 4 or more players. It does seem a little rough and abusable on paper. But for having played a lot with it, I can with right assurance say that it is trivial most of the time. You can definitely play around the limitation imposed by an enemy Custodian. Besides, the perk-into-Attack thing that Custodian has going for himself is too well streamlined, thatís something I wonít want to change! I couldnít really change the behaviour of the locked away card without breaking the beauty of helping yourself while making it harder for the others. So, there you have it. A way to prep yourself for your next turn by setting a card away, be it a Treasure or an Action card or what have you. Moreover, a way to prep yourself by slotting that card away in a non-buyable position for the others! ďGrrrrĒ, theyíll say.

  • Tithe (my other thread): Well yeah. The 6th Attack of Urbanisation. Whatís not to love? Huh? A game ruined by broken friendships? Noooo come back, I swear Tithe isnít too bad!

    And it really isnít. Those without , say, because they havenít been Attacked by a Tithe before their next turn yet, take . Then, Tithe waits on your side, until your next turn on your Buy phase where it comfortably nests itself on your Tavern mat. THEN, on your second next turn, you can call Tithe and get a good payload! THEN, 3 turns later, you can hope to have it back in your hands to fire off the Attack once more. And if you donít manage to draw the damn thing that turn, then it can take even longer. That is how slow of an Attack Tithe is! So I hope that, by then, your are repaid, right?

    Tithe has changed since my last thread. It used to generate when called from your Tavern mat. This has been buffed to . People were very reluctant in investing in Tithe before. Hopefully, this initiative will make people reconsider Tithe.




⚠ From the next and last set of cards, all 3 cards will be from my other thread. I have run out of Weekly Design Contest cards to show. ⚠
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 09:47:45 pm by X-tra »
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Amuzet

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2020, 09:15:33 am »
+2

Love what you've done with the cards, it'll be bewildering on how i'll implement Specialty Shop
Tithe has always been a bit hard to explain to my play group, but they get it eventually.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2020, 09:57:00 am »
+1

So with Monarch you could make Province ungainable? Seems quite broken. Otherwise nice cards, but I still think that Specialty Shop can have a text without the weird, look-in-the-rulebook blue orbs.
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X-tra

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2020, 05:22:14 pm »
0

Love what you've done with the cards, it'll be bewildering on how i'll implement Specialty Shop
Tithe has always been a bit hard to explain to my play group, but they get it eventually.
Thank you Amuzet. Might wait for the next (and last) batch of card that I will upload tonight around 8PM, 2 days late as per tradition :D . Also, after the last set, I will post all the cards together with their corrected versions for clarity.
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X-tra

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2020, 09:46:16 pm »
+1

Card set #10

          

     
     
     
     

My work as your advisor is done here, Sir! As a final goodbye, I will leave you with some very colourful cards! Urbanisation has a lot of different cards with different types. These final 3 cards are no different! Pretty, pretty colours. And oh, don't gamble too hard while I'm gone!


  • Dice Games (my other thread): This mentions a D6. What D6? Why, a fresh and cutely added dice tossed into the Urbanisation box, if it had one! Alongside the Shop mat shown last week, the Dice and the Tracker tokens are the only other new materials included in this fan-made expansion. You can see the faces of the D6 above, in pale blue. So 1/3 chance of either rolling +1 Action or +1 Card; and 1/6 chance of rolling + or +1 Buy. Tracker tokens are little carboard chits you can put on your played Dice Games as a reminder of what you rolled; in case you need that. Thereíd be 10 of these trackers with a +1 Action side and a +1 Card side. 10 other Tracker tokens would have a + side and a +1 Buy side. Yay. I donít want Dice Games to fall into the Pawn situation of ďerrrÖ what the shit did my fourth Pawn do this turn again?Ē. Yeah.

    Okay. So this card has changed. It has now a more bearable cost, whereas it used to cost more back in the days. Silly me. To also avoid some unfavorable dice rolls and having your whole turn ruined because the odds were against you, Dice Games is now a cantrip by default. So worst case scenario, you go ďDrat. Didnít roll good. Oh well. Moving on.Ē And that is even without your re-rolling option too! Look, Dice Games is trying to mitigate the luck factor the best it can, man. So itís a cantrip with you plugging a random perk to it. So what can it be then? It can beÖ

    • A village.
    • A Laboratory.
    • A Market Square sans the Reaction.
    • A stronger Peddler.

    All stuff with various prices. A little reminder that you can discard a card any number of times after rolling to re-roll. Sometimes, you need that +Buy, what can I say!


  • Hops (my other thread): Orange / Yellow hybrid. Never-seen before and for good reasons all explained by Donald. I think it can work here since the card is relatively simple and has an anti-lose-track failsafe on it (ď[Ö] if this is still in playĒ). In my other thread, it used to yield on the turn you played it and give you another the next turn. Hurray. Except, not hurray. Lighthouse exists and itís like, stronger than it. Itís also a non-terminal now, next turn. And it also defends you from attack. I think that was a good justification to change Hops a tad. I mean, sure it canít be drawn dead, unlike Lighthouse, but thatís not good enough for me.

    In this version, it is a non-terminal Merchant Ship that only works for your next turn. I am very unsure how desirable Hops is in this form, butÖ Itís different than Lighthouse at least!

  • Stray Cat (my other thread): Poor kitty. Waited all this time only to end up being the last and therefore 30th card to be shown. I donít have much to say about the Stray Cat. For one, it hasnít changed at all since my last thread. Two, itís a pretty good drawer, I believe. Itís one-shot though. I wonder if it could cost , but I like it as is. Itís pretty tough to use, but the mega turn can be juicy. Itíll never fail too, since it will work on itself (aka, on another one of your Stray Cat played). Meow.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 10:03:09 am by X-tra »
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2020, 01:28:37 am »
0

Nice stuff! Pretty exotic expansion overall.
Minor wording issue: I don't think that you need the "you may" on Gambler Dice Games.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 04:24:28 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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D782802859

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2020, 07:54:29 am »
0

Hops could get a small buff, maybe a buy on the turn you play it?
Stray Cat could also return to supply instead of self-trashing.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2020, 05:14:31 pm »
0

Not too big on those three. I think Hops is too close to Fishing Village and Lighthouse to be worthwhile. Lighthouse in particular, why would you want 0/2$ instead of 1$/1$ when the latter also protects you?

And Stray Cat seems busted. You pay 2$ and a buy for +1 card in a future turn (Ride) or 3$ and a buy for +2 cards in a future turn (experiment). This is 4$ and a buy for +3 cards in a future turn, and you can control it much better, which is a definite plus.
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MiX

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2020, 05:19:42 pm »
0

Not too big on those three. I think Hops is too close to Fishing Village and Lighthouse to be worthwhile. Lighthouse in particular, why would you want 0/2$ instead of 1$/1$ when the latter also protects you?

And Stray Cat seems busted. You pay 2$ and a buy for +1 card in a future turn (Ride) or 3$ and a buy for +2 cards in a future turn (experiment). This is 4$ and a buy for +3 cards in a future turn, and you can control it much better, which is a definite plus.

Well, when there's no attacks, 0/2 might be better than 1/1.

You still need to play stray cat, so it's not as immediate as the other 2, although playing a moat isn't exactly the worst you could be doing. Needing to buy, and play, it in advance definitely makes it weaker when compared to the other 2, this is more like a mega turn enabler.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #90 on: October 02, 2020, 05:23:53 pm »
0

It's not even later than the other two, since you need to draw and play them (horse, experiment) as well. Okay, it's one turn later, but that hardly matters.

And the fact that you need to play a moat first seems roughly value neutral, maybe slightly positive.

And I'm not buying at all that 0/2 is better than 1/1.  The main reason why 1/1 is worse than 2/0 is that the card is more likely to miss the shuffle.
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Xen3k

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #91 on: October 02, 2020, 05:32:36 pm »
0

Regarding Hops, perhaps if it gave you +1 Buy at the start of your next turn and gave you the option to get +$2 the turn you play it or the following turn, it would give it that slight buff. It would remain in play due to the buy it grants the following turn, but give you the option to get the +$2 either the turn played or the turn with the extra Buy.

I really like Stray Cat, but would have to try it out to gauge how strong it is.
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X-tra

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #92 on: October 02, 2020, 05:38:17 pm »
+1

Nice stuff! Pretty exotic expansion overall.
Minor wording issue: I don't think that you need the "you may" on Gambler.
Thank you very much! You are correct. There is no reason for the "you may" to be there. I don't know why it slid there in the first place. I'll post the edited version of Dice Games alongside the rest of the cards in the "epilogue" in 3 days or so.

Hops could get a small buff, maybe a buy on the turn you play it?
Stray Cat could also return to supply instead of self-trashing.
A +Buy on Hops would be pretty nifty. Although, there are 2 reasons why I avoided doing that in the first place. First, Iíd have to add a ďWhen you play this [Ö]Ē before the +Buy, as is with any other existing Treasures that do something else than giving on the turn you play them. I think that extra wording would take away from the elegance of the card. Second, itís becauseÖ well, as Iíll mention in the ďepilogueĒ, there are several cards in Urbanisation with +Buy already. Itís an actual subtheme of the set, although I donít really want to push the envelope too far.

As for Stray Cat, I kinda want its pile to be depletable for those who want to 3 piles.


Not too big on those three. I think Hops is too close to Fishing Village and Lighthouse to be worthwhile. Lighthouse in particular, why would you want 0/2$ instead of 1$/1$ when the latter also protects you?

And Stray Cat seems busted. You pay 2$ and a buy for +1 card in a future turn (Ride) or 3$ and a buy for +2 cards in a future turn (experiment). This is 4$ and a buy for +3 cards in a future turn, and you can control it much better, which is a definite plus.
For Hops, the / VS / battle ainít too much of an issue for me. I mean, you get the same amount of resources, just split differently. Itís different, thatís all. Lighthouse has the protection from Attacks over Hops, but Hops as the ďcannot be drawn deadĒ propriety over Lighthouse. In a Supply where no Attacks can be found with Hops and Lighthouse in the Kingdom, Iíd argue that Hops trumps Lighthouse. Itís a matter of context, as is with any Dominion cards, really.

Stray Cat seems fine to me. The slowness of putting that sucker down on your Tavern mat for a Moat effect (which costs ) makes up for the big draw. Sometimes, youíll need to sacrifice your terminal Action to put it on your Tavern mat just so you can draw better later. Itís flexible, but itís also annoying to get there. And itís a one shot too. If your +3 Cards didnít yield anything good, well, tough luck buddy. Try again with another Stray Cat youíll have to plop on your mat once again!
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2020, 04:59:57 am »
0

In a Supply where no Attacks can be found with Hops and Lighthouse in the Kingdom, Iíd argue that Hops trumps Lighthouse.

I certainly agree, but if we agree that the 0/2 vs. 1/1 distinction is minor, then it's just about giving a non-terminal the 'can't be drawn dead' property, and that seems like it fails the novelty threshold for a new card. Arid village, to name one of your own designs, is significantly more novel.
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2020, 05:06:49 am »
0

Hops is too bland and significantly worse than Lighthouse as it is a Treasure.
There was already a lengthy discussion about this when Ducat (vs. Candlestick Maker) came out.

Stray Cat is likely a $3 although most gainers do of course not care about this difference.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 05:09:42 am by segura »
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X-tra

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2020, 10:02:03 am »
+2

Dominion: Urbanisation

Kingdom cards

cost cards:

     


cost cards:

     
     

     
     


cost cards:

     
     
     
     


cost cards:

     
     
     

     
     
     


cost cards:

     
     
     

     
     


cost cards:



cost cards:



Stallions:

     
     
     

     
     
     



Out-of-Supply cards

Successor Traveller line:

     
     
     



Other components

Die face for the ďDice GamesĒ card (also comes with 20 Tracker tokens; 10 with a face up ď+1 ActionĒ and a face down ď+1 CardĒ and 10 with a face up ď+Ē and a face down ď+1 BuyĒ):

     
     
     
     
     

Shop mat for the ďSpecialty ShopĒ card:






Overall theming of the set:
  • Lots of +Buys. Out of 30 cards, 7 gives you a +Buy (albeit, the one on Dice Games is random, but it still counts dammit!)

  • Victory cards. If we include cards found in the Stallion pile, we have 6 different Victory cards in this set! Thatís a good amount of Ďem.

  • Attacks be plenty. 6 of them. Renaissanceís 2 Attack cards are looking pale in comparison.

  • Variety and weird hybrid card types. We have Horses, Night cards, Reserve cards, Debt stuff, a Traveller line, a mixed pile, a Command card, etc. Hops, Secret Path, Mobsters and Tithe are made of 2 card types that cannot be seen paired together in official Dominion expansions.

  • Small cost cards have a significant presence here. 8 cards cost or less (Dice Games does cost Debt).


Overall cohesion shortcomings:
  • Appraiser is the only card dealing with tokens. This is not very cohesive with the rest of the set and looks like it was just slapped on out of nowhere. This card could be better saved for another set. Although, its trashing abilities are probably required in this set, otherwise trashing in Urbanisation would be weaker than it already is.

  • There are not enough cards that makes you draw in this set. +Cards are tough to come by here. Yet, there are plenty of Villages, some of which donít even draw (House, Junk Village). And then Arid Village and Market Town are like, a knife in the wound. So building a draw Engine seemed tougher than usual in games only using Urbanisation cards.





Anyway, thanks for those who have stayed to leave a comment or two. Itís really appreciated and helped me tweak some cards, even if it was just to change the wording for the best. If you scrounge around the list above, you'll notice how some stuff have changed since the time I posted them in the sets of 3 cards, most notably Lease and Overwork. Other cards have been reworded as per suggestions from some users here, such as with Hoarder and Dice Games. Iím still putting off the whole printing idea which was the genesis of this thread. I really want Urbanisation to be worthy of being printed and Iím still insecure about this prospect, so patience is a virtue thatíll pay off I suppose. Thank you all once again. :)


« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 09:52:22 pm by X-tra »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2020, 02:26:46 am »
0

Don't spend a lot of money to print the cards. Just print them on plain paper and put them in front of official cards in the sleeve.
- If you play Dominion (the physical version) often, you should be sleeving your cards anyway.
- A lot of times it takes several games playing with a card to realize that it needs a change.
- save money!

silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Urbanisation
« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2020, 03:17:40 am »
0

I've Home printed cards and had them professionally printed. The latter looked much nicer.

Nonetheless, I agree that you should just go ahead and print them. If you've tested them a bunch (and realized that your traveler line needs a  buff ;P), you can still print them to look nice.

And don't worry about too many buys. Games without +buy are dumb.
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