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Author Topic: Card updating contest  (Read 2561 times)

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gambit05

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2020, 04:54:28 am »
0

Congratulations to grrgrrgrr and thanks to LordBaphomet for your work.

I have a question to your card:

This is basically a mini-Rabble that is more customizable to cooperate with Bandid or Pirate Ship. It is chainable. I'm not sure about the vanilla bonus; I was original thinking about +2 Cards, but that'd possibly make its chainability too good.



Could you explain how the first line "Name any amount of card types" works? I understand it literally in that you could name any existing (and even non-existing) card types. If true that would be quite time consuming and would always guarantee a 100% hit; though probably I misunderstood that card somehow.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2020, 05:46:10 am »
0

Congratulations to grrgrrgrr and thanks to LordBaphomet for your work.

I have a question to your card:

This is basically a mini-Rabble that is more customizable to cooperate with Bandid or Pirate Ship. It is chainable. I'm not sure about the vanilla bonus; I was original thinking about +2 Cards, but that'd possibly make its chainability too good.



Could you explain how the first line "Name any amount of card types" works? I understand it literally in that you could name any existing (and even non-existing) card types. If true that would be quite time consuming and would always guarantee a 100% hit; though probably I misunderstood that card somehow.

You can indeed name a lot of different cards. I disagree that it is a 100% guarantueed hit, as it only looks at the top 2 cards. If you name "Action" and "Treasure", then the attack will be literally a weaker Rabble attack. But if you want to play a Bandit or a Pirate Ship after this attack, it can be better to not say "Treasure" (and maybe add "Victory Card" into the mix).
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gambit05

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2020, 05:55:18 am »
0

Congratulations to grrgrrgrr and thanks to LordBaphomet for your work.

I have a question to your card:

This is basically a mini-Rabble that is more customizable to cooperate with Bandid or Pirate Ship. It is chainable. I'm not sure about the vanilla bonus; I was original thinking about +2 Cards, but that'd possibly make its chainability too good.



Could you explain how the first line "Name any amount of card types" works? I understand it literally in that you could name any existing (and even non-existing) card types. If true that would be quite time consuming and would always guarantee a 100% hit; though probably I misunderstood that card somehow.

You can indeed name a lot of different cards. I disagree that it is a 100% guarantueed hit, as it only looks at the top 2 cards. If you name "Action" and "Treasure", then the attack will be literally a weaker Rabble attack. But if you want to play a Bandit or a Pirate Ship after this attack, it can be better to not say "Treasure" (and maybe add "Victory Card" into the mix).

Okay, thank you. What happens when I name the type "Attack"?
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2020, 06:06:28 am »
0

Congratulations to grrgrrgrr and thanks to LordBaphomet for your work.

I have a question to your card:

This is basically a mini-Rabble that is more customizable to cooperate with Bandid or Pirate Ship. It is chainable. I'm not sure about the vanilla bonus; I was original thinking about +2 Cards, but that'd possibly make its chainability too good.



Could you explain how the first line "Name any amount of card types" works? I understand it literally in that you could name any existing (and even non-existing) card types. If true that would be quite time consuming and would always guarantee a 100% hit; though probably I misunderstood that card somehow.

You can indeed name a lot of different cards. I disagree that it is a 100% guarantueed hit, as it only looks at the top 2 cards. If you name "Action" and "Treasure", then the attack will be literally a weaker Rabble attack. But if you want to play a Bandit or a Pirate Ship after this attack, it can be better to not say "Treasure" (and maybe add "Victory Card" into the mix).

Okay, thank you. What happens when I name the type "Attack"?
Then it looks at the top 2 cards, discards all Attack cards, and topdecks all non-Attack cards.
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gambit05

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2020, 06:29:04 am »
0

Congratulations to grrgrrgrr and thanks to LordBaphomet for your work.

I have a question to your card:

This is basically a mini-Rabble that is more customizable to cooperate with Bandid or Pirate Ship. It is chainable. I'm not sure about the vanilla bonus; I was original thinking about +2 Cards, but that'd possibly make its chainability too good.



Could you explain how the first line "Name any amount of card types" works? I understand it literally in that you could name any existing (and even non-existing) card types. If true that would be quite time consuming and would always guarantee a 100% hit; though probably I misunderstood that card somehow.

You can indeed name a lot of different cards. I disagree that it is a 100% guarantueed hit, as it only looks at the top 2 cards. If you name "Action" and "Treasure", then the attack will be literally a weaker Rabble attack. But if you want to play a Bandit or a Pirate Ship after this attack, it can be better to not say "Treasure" (and maybe add "Victory Card" into the mix).

Okay, thank you. What happens when I name the type "Attack"?
Then it looks at the top 2 cards, discards all Attack cards, and topdecks all non-Attack cards.

Thanks for the explanation. I am curious how that would play out. I mean I could name any types of highly valuable cards: Wharf in the Kingdom, I name "Duration"; Overlord, I name Command; Wild Hunt, I name Gathering etc. I can assure that you put only Treasures and/or Victory back, or if I have a 2nd Spy in hand, let's discard everything the first time and than selectively attack the second time. Sorry for the many questions...

Edit: I got it now.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 07:29:34 am by gambit05 »
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gambit05

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2020, 08:53:27 am »
+3

I know, you mentioned to only submit a new version for one of the 3 cards, but I couldn't resist.

Edit: I have changed Royal Seal, thanks to Jonatan Djurachkovitch. The original version can be found in replies #57 & 59.



Mine
$5 Treasure

Quote
You may trash a Treasure
you have in play. Gain a
Treasure to your hand
costing up to $3 more
than it.

Explorer
$5 Action

Quote
Gain a Gold. You may
reveal a Province from
your hand to put that Gold
into your hand.

Royal Seal
$4 Treasure - Duration

Quote
$1
At the start of your next turn, +$1.
--------------------
While this is in play, when
you gain a card, you may put
it onto your deck.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 10:46:28 am by gambit05 »
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2020, 09:16:19 am »
0

That's fine. The contest is actually a mixture of three contests anyway.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2020, 09:56:49 am »
+2

I know, you mentioned to only submit a new version for one of the 3 cards, but I couldn't resist.



Mine
$5 Treasure

Quote
You may trash a Treasure
you have in play. Gain a
Treasure to your hand
costing up to $3 more
than it.

Explorer
$5 Action

Quote
Gain a Gold. You may
reveal a Province from
your hand to put that Gold
into your hand.

Royal Seal
$5 Treasure - Duration

Quote
$2
--------------------
While this is in play, when
you gain a card, you may put
it onto your deck.

This royal seal wouldn't work as you think it would, the ruling on duration cards makes it so that this only works one turn.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2020, 10:24:38 am »
0

My entries: (mine will be later)


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gambit05

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2020, 10:31:09 am »
+2

I know, you mentioned to only submit a new version for one of the 3 cards, but I couldn't resist.



Mine
$5 Treasure

Quote
You may trash a Treasure
you have in play. Gain a
Treasure to your hand
costing up to $3 more
than it.

Explorer
$5 Action

Quote
Gain a Gold. You may
reveal a Province from
your hand to put that Gold
into your hand.

Royal Seal
$5 Treasure - Duration

Quote
$2
--------------------
While this is in play, when
you gain a card, you may put
it onto your deck.

This royal seal wouldn't work as you think it would, the ruling on duration cards makes it so that this only works one turn.

Dammit. I'll change it. Thanks.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2020, 01:02:00 pm »
0

My entries: (mine will be later)

I may have added the option to come with multiple ideas. This doesn't mean, however, that you have to. If you have no good ideas for Mine, I'd prefer it if you skip the card (it ain't gonna boost your chances for winning the contest).
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2020, 01:46:31 pm »
0

My entries: (mine will be later)

I may have added the option to come with multiple ideas. This doesn't mean, however, that you have to. If you have no good ideas for Mine, I'd prefer it if you skip the card (it ain't gonna boost your chances for winning the contest).

Sorry, I have a decent general idea for mine but still haven't worked out the specifics...
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spineflu

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2020, 09:25:03 am »
+1


Quote
Royal Seal $5 Treasure
Cards cost $2 less this turn.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put that card onto your deck.
Quote
Explorer $5 Action
You may reveal a Province from your hand. If you do, gain a Gold to your hand. If you don't, gain a Silver to your hand.

You may play an Action card you do not have a copy of in play.
Quote
Mine $5 Night
You may trash a Treasure from in play. Gain a Treasure to the top of your deck costing up to $3 more than it.
Royal Seal gets a bridge/quarry-like update.
Explorer gets imp-style non-terminality
Mine becomes a set-up card for money decks (and loses its terminality).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 03:18:29 pm by spineflu »
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Xen3k

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2020, 12:36:18 pm »
+2


Quote
Royal Seal $5 Treasure
If you have an odd number of Royal Seals in play, +1 Buy.

Cards cost $2 less this turn.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put that card onto your deck.
Quote
Explorer $5 Action
You may reveal a Province from your hand. If you do, gain a Gold to your hand. If you don't, gain a Silver to your hand.

You may play an Action card you do not have a copy of in play.
Quote
Mine $5 Night
You may trash a Treasure from in play. Gain a Treasure to the top of your deck costing up to $3 more than it.
Royal Seal gets a bridge/quarry-like update.
Explorer gets imp-style non-terminality
Mine becomes a set-up card for money decks (and loses its terminality).

So this version of Royal Seal makes Provinces cost $4 if you have two of them in play? I think that may be a bit too good. Quarry limiting it's effect to Actions made it reasonable. MAybe just having it effect non-Victory cards?
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spineflu

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2020, 03:16:33 pm »
0


Quote
Royal Seal $5 Treasure
Cards cost $2 less this turn.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put that card onto your deck.
Quote
Explorer $5 Action
You may reveal a Province from your hand. If you do, gain a Gold to your hand. If you don't, gain a Silver to your hand.

You may play an Action card you do not have a copy of in play.
Quote
Mine $5 Night
You may trash a Treasure from in play. Gain a Treasure to the top of your deck costing up to $3 more than it.
Royal Seal gets a bridge/quarry-like update.
Explorer gets imp-style non-terminality
Mine becomes a set-up card for money decks (and loses its terminality).

So this version of Royal Seal makes Provinces cost $4 if you have two of them in play? I think that may be a bit too good. Quarry limiting it's effect to Actions made it reasonable. MAybe just having it effect non-Victory cards?
I mean, that's what silvers do also; i'm gonna take the +buy off tho, that is egregious in retrospect.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 03:18:04 pm by spineflu »
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silverspawn

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2020, 03:30:28 pm »
+2

If +1 buy, card cost 2$ less is Price-level power, than it seems quite unlikely that your card is balanced.
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spineflu

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2020, 06:25:50 pm »
0

If +1 buy, card cost 2$ less is Price-level power, than it seems quite unlikely that your card is balanced.
unpack this for me. I removed the buy because the price reduction combined with the +buy was too much; price reduction alone just makes it more useful in +buy games (same deal as quarry)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 06:27:00 pm by spineflu »
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silverspawn

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2020, 06:12:34 am »
+4

If +1 buy, card cost 2$ less is Price-level power, than it seems quite unlikely that your card is balanced.
unpack this for me. I removed the buy because the price reduction combined with the +buy was too much; price reduction alone just makes it more useful in +buy games (same deal as quarry)

Princess is a Price card that gives +1 buy and makes all cards 2$ cheaper. Compared to Princess, your card has three big advantages

- Doesn't cost an Action (and can't even be drawn dead)
- Does stuff in addition to making things 2$ cheaper
- Can be massed

And two big disadvantages

- hard to use the cost reduction in your action phase since it's a Treasure card
- no +buy

Overall, this seems stronger than Princess, which is probably not good given that Princess is a price card.

The thing that makes Quarry work is that it only applies to Action cards where cost reduction has diminishing returns. If you play two quarries, you can pretty much get one action card per buy you have, but that's one step away from the payload. You're setting up your qurry thing just so that you can build an even stronger engine. Which is definitely good enough on some boards, but it's different from going directly to the green cards.

Perhaps look at it like this. Bridge essentially introduces an alternate win condition: "play 7 of me in one turn". However, this curve slopes steeply upward: playing 5 of 7 does not give you 5/7th of the benefit, rather it probably just isn't good enough (if you start greening then, you won't  connect bridges in the future and probably lose). Your card also introduces an alternate win condition: "play four of these and about 5 cards with +buy". This is much easier to do if there is a cantrip with +buy because it (a) has fewer components that don't draw and (b) has no terminal components. Just market square + your card + trashing wins the game. And it also has a third benefit, which is that the curve is linear with regard to the +buys. Playing just 4 cards with +buy is, in fact, 4/5th as good as playing 5 (as long as you have 4 Royal Seals in play). You still get 5 province.

And because you don't need terminals, it's also doable without a +buy cantrip. It's not too hard to play two squires for +4 buys, or if your card drawer has +buy,that also works.

So this suggests to me that the card is significantly more powerful than bridge, which is probably not ok. Unlike with other cards, the fact that it costs 5$ and not 4$ doesn't change much since it's not about getting it early, and once you have a few, you're bottle-necked by +buys anyway.
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Aquila

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2020, 08:38:16 am »
+3


Possibly it's doing too much, and the gold discard gain should be just up to $4.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2020, 09:54:03 pm »
+2

Had 2 ideas for Mine



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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2020, 10:57:04 pm »
0

My Explorer replacement is a split pile:

Quote
Dwarf
$4 - Action
Gain a Treasure card costing up to $5.
Choose one: Put the gained card in your hand, or +2 Cards.

Quote
Mithril Bar
$5 - Treasure
If you have a Dwarf in play, +$3.
Otherwise, +$2.

grrgrrgrr

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2020, 10:04:24 am »
0

24 h left. (not sure if this is worth continuing)
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2020, 09:20:56 am »
+4

So I'll finish my job as judge, in WDC style:

gambit05
  • Mine: This is probably too much of a buff for the turn it's used. C->S makes $3; S->G makes $5 and G->P makes $8. Getting this amount of money out of two cards while also improving your deck sounds rather absurd. I think it is much better by just making Mine produce $1 itself, rather than pulling this kind of stuff.
  • Explorer: It is basically a Courtier that uses Province as a dual type and the rest as a single type (albeit worse). Province is a card that is always in the kingdom and also always useful at some point. However, it isn't useful until endgame and prior to then, it pales very much in comparison to Governor and Courtier. And during endgame, having no direct benefit when not connected to Province can be very frustrating (something the original Explorer doesn't have).
  • Royal Seal: Its topdecking effect last much longer, and it's cheaper! This is probably the buff it needs.

Lordbaphomet
  • Royal Seal (renamed to Royal Decree): I think that this does a little too much for a $4 workshop. First, it's nonterminal no matter what; something we have never seen on a Workshop variant before. And its below-the-line part gives it pretty ridiculous self synergy. Your idea could maybe work on $5, or as a terminal card, but it sounds pretty excessive right now.
  • Explorer: This new version of Explorer is completely worthless in hands without Victory cards, and I'm not sure if the effects are strong enough to make up for that. What loses most of its appeal, is that it only works on the three base Victory cards. You probably should have put: if the Victory Card costs $0-$2 then..., if it costs $3 to $6 then,..., if it costs $7+ then...

spineflu
  • Royal Seal: This is completely busted. A Treasure lowering the price by $2 could maybe work as a $7 card, but not as a $5 cost that has a while-in-play part that works admirably with it. You could have limited the price reduction to Action cards and it would have been a pretty nice buff, albeit awkward as Quarry and Royal Seal are both Prosperity cards.
  • Explorer: You make Explorer less likely to collide terminally, which is definitely a buff. Not sure if this new effect is interesting enough to warrant this much text, or if a simple +1 Action wouldn't be too much, but I like it. 
  • Mine: This new version of Mine, unlike Lordbaphomet's, seems quite weak to be honest. It does nothing against Mine's slowness; in fact it only amplifies it as this worsens the cycling, and is worse on the turns you draw the Mine. On top of that, topdecking a Treasure is generally not something you want (although it is nice with Storyteller). The card no longer being terminal is nice though.
Aquila
  • Explorer: This is a pretty nice Gold gainer that keeps the original Explorer's identity in an elegant way. The discarding options seem rather disjointed, but they work together beautifully. Well done.

NoMoreFun
  • Mine (replaced by Ore/Prospect): You have to stick with one option, so it won't win, but I'm going to judge nonetheless. Ore will pretty much always play as a Gold that is delayed by one shuffle, which seems rather automatic and boring. Prospect is pretty decent (and definitely correctly priced), but not terribly exciting.

LibraryAdventurer
  • Explorer (replaced by Dwarf/Mithril Bar): $5 seems like an odd limit, as that makes the card really strong with $5 costing Treasures (except the crappy ones which are... the majority). Mithril Bars are really good when Dwarfs bestow them, but not really afterward. That said, gaining Silver to your hand is already pretty strong for a $4 cost, and this effect is a strictly superior version of that.

And the winners per category are:

Explorer: Aquila
Mine: Spineflu
Royal Seal: gambit05

And the overall winner is... Aquila

Congratulations Aquila for winning this contest! And you may judge the next iteration.

That said, this thread has been a ghost town for one week straight, so I'm not sure if this contest is worth resuming.
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gambit05

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2020, 10:38:05 am »
0

Many thank, grrgrrgrr. Good work. Congratulations to Aquila.

Since only 6 people participated in the last round, there doesn't seem too much interest. Just my 2 Cent, but it is up to Aquila.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2020, 01:25:49 pm »
0

Yeah, that was fun but I don't think this is worth pursuing further.
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