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Author Topic: Card updating contest  (Read 8741 times)

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LordBaphomet

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Card updating contest
« on: August 19, 2020, 02:50:35 pm »
+3

How would you guys feel about a new design contest, similar to the weekly design contest, about updating bad cards from older expansions, much like was done in the Base and Intrigue with the replaced cards? The cards could be tweaked, or could be a whole new card with the same concept or mechanic (like scout and patrol). Each week would have three or so cards from older expansions to improve.
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D782802859

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2020, 02:56:06 pm »
0

Could be interesting.
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Gubump

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2020, 04:21:31 pm »
0

Sounds interesting to me.
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segura

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2020, 05:11:02 pm »
0

There are only a dozen or so over- and underpowered cards but I like this idea.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2020, 10:36:19 am »
+3

Would be a good idea for a week of the weekly design contest.
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Aquila

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2020, 01:57:00 pm »
+1

Would be a good idea for a week of the weekly design contest.
We did have it once, right back at contest #18.

Variants on official cards might be a big enough field to explore with contests, or maybe not. Depends on how flexible you'd allow things to be, like would borrowing mechanics from other expansions be allowed? If not, I doubt there would be much room. Unless you do like Empires did to Prosperity, a new expansion extending a current expansion theme.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2020, 03:23:41 pm »
+1

Would be a good idea for a week of the weekly design contest.
We did have it once, right back at contest #18.

Variants on official cards might be a big enough field to explore with contests, or maybe not. Depends on how flexible you'd allow things to be, like would borrowing mechanics from other expansions be allowed? If not, I doubt there would be much room. Unless you do like Empires did to Prosperity, a new expansion extending a current expansion theme.
Another fun contest would be for a "sequel" expansion, like how adventures is the seaside sequel, and empires is the prosperity sequel. I guess renaissance is a bit of guilds and dark ages. However, it would be fun to do new mechanics to complement Intrigue, or Nocturne maybe? Corncucopia would be interesting too.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2020, 06:45:36 pm »
+3

I think nocturne is more sequel to dark ages than renaissance. Yes, renaissance has a bit of a tfb theme but nocturne is more thematically similar and has the sheer numbers of cards and the bunches of non-supply things that dark ages did. It also has heirlooms to replace coppers like dark ages had shelters to replace estates
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D782802859

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2020, 07:10:07 pm »
0

Plus, just from flavor Renaissance is quite literally the opposite of Dark Ages. It's about the age of enlightenment. Nocturne definitely has some of that darker stuff going on, like Den of Sin, Raider, and Ghost Town.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2020, 05:22:48 pm »
0

Card Updating Contest 1

Make a new version of one of the following cards:
Sea Hag (curser using duration, top-of deck/bottom-of-deck, or using mats)
Spy (non-terminal deck attack. Try not to make it too slow)
Tournament (somehow gains from fixed deck of prizes. You can make your own prizes or use the same ones. Make sure it's not as rich-get-richer)

Judging will be in about two weeks
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 05:41:37 pm by LordBaphomet »
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Aquila

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2020, 03:33:15 pm »
0

So here's one for Spy:
Quote
Enforcer - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+ $1

Each other player discards a card costing at least $2 per other Enforcer you have in play (or reveals they can't), then draws until they have 4 cards in hand.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2020, 03:39:48 pm »
0

So here's one for Spy:
Quote
Enforcer - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+ $1

Each other player discards a card costing at least $2 per other Enforcer you have in play (or reveals they can't), then draws until they have 4 cards in hand.

The resemblance with spy is rather weak. It should be some sort of deck attack like rabble, oracle, scrying pool, etc. Maybe it can reveal from deck per played, then discard or put back, your choice? I do like the per played idea, makes it not too slow.
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lompeluiten

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2020, 04:14:02 am »
0

Card Updating Contest 1

Make a new version of one of the following cards:
Sea Hag (curser using duration, top-of deck/bottom-of-deck, or using mats)
Spy (non-terminal deck attack. Try not to make it too slow)
Tournament (somehow gains from fixed deck of prizes. You can make your own prizes or use the same ones. Make sure it's not as rich-get-richer)

Judging will be in about two weeks
Sea hag is a bad card? I crushed my opponents multiple times with it. Not just win... CRUSHED!
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D782802859

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2020, 07:05:10 am »
0

Card Updating Contest 1

Make a new version of one of the following cards:
Sea Hag (curser using duration, top-of deck/bottom-of-deck, or using mats)
Spy (non-terminal deck attack. Try not to make it too slow)
Tournament (somehow gains from fixed deck of prizes. You can make your own prizes or use the same ones. Make sure it's not as rich-get-richer)

Judging will be in about two weeks
Sea hag is a bad card? I crushed my opponents multiple times with it. Not just win... CRUSHED!

It's not bad as in weak, however it does have design issues, since it doesn't produce resources and can take over games.
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Aquila

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2020, 07:13:38 am »
0

So here's one for Spy:
Quote
Enforcer - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+ $1

Each other player discards a card costing at least $2 per other Enforcer you have in play (or reveals they can't), then draws until they have 4 cards in hand.

The resemblance with spy is rather weak. It should be some sort of deck attack like rabble, oracle, scrying pool, etc. Maybe it can reveal from deck per played, then discard or put back, your choice? I do like the per played idea, makes it not too slow.
Ok sure, I focused on just the cantrip Attack aspect. I think your idea would be much slower than Spy though? You'd have several cards at once to consider.
But I'll submit another idea going down the Sea Hag route:
Quote
Brute - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+ $2
Each other player reveals the top card of their deck. If it's an Action or Treasure, they discard it and gain a Curse onto their deck.
It's hitting somebody just once between turns. Maybe still nasty enough an Attack to cost it $5?
Edit: costed it $5 and named it Brute. Because it's brutal.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 03:01:52 am by Aquila »
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2020, 09:05:43 am »
0

So here's one for Spy:
Quote
Enforcer - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+ $1

Each other player discards a card costing at least $2 per other Enforcer you have in play (or reveals they can't), then draws until they have 4 cards in hand.

The resemblance with spy is rather weak. It should be some sort of deck attack like rabble, oracle, scrying pool, etc. Maybe it can reveal from deck per played, then discard or put back, your choice? I do like the per played idea, makes it not too slow.
Ok sure, I focused on just the cantrip Attack aspect. I think your idea would be much slower than Spy though? You'd have several cards at once to consider.
But I'll submit another idea going down the Sea Hag route:
Quote
Scallywag - Action Attack, $4 cost.
+ $2
Each other player reveals the top card of their deck. If it's an Action or Treasure, they discard it and gain a Curse onto their deck.
It's hitting somebody just once between turns. Maybe still nasty enough an Attack to cost it $5?
I think it should cost five since it makes 2$ and also discards good cards but always leaves useless ones.
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segura

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2020, 09:30:25 am »
+1

It's not bad as in weak, however it does have design issues, since it doesn't produce resources and can take over games.
What is "take over games" supposed to mean?

Sea Hag is not merey totally fine as it is but actually one of the more interesting Cursers.
It is basically Cursing plus the equivalent of the -1 Card token Attack from Relic. That's why it does not do anything for you, it already does enough bad things for the other dudes.

So how about nerfing overpowered Attacks like Torturer, Cultist, Mountebank or Coven instead of messing with the good Attack in the game?
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2020, 09:48:31 am »
0

1) It produces no resources
2) It is really, really, good. You need to buy it in the opening or else you will drown in curses.
3) There is already a cheap junker in seaside, ambassador, which is much more interesting
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segura

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2020, 09:52:01 am »
+2

2) It is really, really, good. You need to buy it in the opening or else you will drown in curses.
That is a general statement about junkers; Sea Hag is not more mandatory than any other one.
Ironically the other Seaside card you mentioned, Ambassador, is a card you can skip far less frequently than Sea Hag.

In general I do frankly not understand these old Saboteur-style arguments. Either the card is too weak because it does not do anything vanilla or it is too strong and the fact that it does not do vanilla is irrelevant.
You cannot argue that a card is strong and complain that it lacks vanilla at the same time.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 09:55:03 am by segura »
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silverspawn

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2020, 09:54:58 am »
0

I happen to agree that sea hag is a fine design, but I think talking about power level is looking at the wrong spectrum. Cards generally aren't fun or unfun base solely on power level. If you doubt this, just look at donate.
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segura

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2020, 09:59:39 am »
0

I happen to agree that sea hag is a fine design, but I think talking about power level is looking at the wrong spectrum. Cards generally aren't fun or unfun base solely on power level. If you doubt this, just look at donate.
Well, sure, but how fun a card is lies in the eyes of the beholder.
It is much easier to get consensus on more objective criteria, like the swinginess of Tournament or the massive underpowerdness of Spy.
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majiponi

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2020, 10:02:16 am »
+4

Sea Hag Hag
cost $4 - Action - Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals the top card of their deck, and if it's not a Curse, gain a Curse onto their deck.
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silverspawn

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2020, 10:24:52 am »
+1

I happen to agree that sea hag is a fine design, but I think talking about power level is looking at the wrong spectrum. Cards generally aren't fun or unfun base solely on power level. If you doubt this, just look at donate.
Well, sure, but how fun a card is lies in the eyes of the beholder.
It is much easier to get consensus on more objective criteria, like the swinginess of Tournament or the massive underpowerdness of Spy.

I don't think this is a case where you want to give up on optimizing the thing you care about directly because it's harder to measure

It's not like powerlevel is almost the same as fun-level. It's a totally different thing. Ditto with swinginess. Very low powerlevel is the best proxy because everyone agrees that a card that never gets bought isn't fun, but high powerlevel really doesn't tell you much.

I'd make a poll -- come up with 10 plausible candidates, vote for the least fun one, then resdesign that one.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2020, 12:17:49 pm »
0

I happen to agree that sea hag is a fine design, but I think talking about power level is looking at the wrong spectrum. Cards generally aren't fun or unfun base solely on power level. If you doubt this, just look at donate.
Well, sure, but how fun a card is lies in the eyes of the beholder.
It is much easier to get consensus on more objective criteria, like the swinginess of Tournament or the massive underpowerdness of Spy.

I don't think this is a case where you want to give up on optimizing the thing you care about directly because it's harder to measure

It's not like powerlevel is almost the same as fun-level. It's a totally different thing. Ditto with swinginess. Very low powerlevel is the best proxy because everyone agrees that a card that never gets bought isn't fun, but high powerlevel really doesn't tell you much.

I'd make a poll -- come up with 10 plausible candidates, vote for the least fun one, then resdesign that one.

I could make a poll to replace sea hag, if that would be better
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LastFootnote

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Re: Card updating contest
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2020, 12:47:06 pm »
+3



Quote
Sea Hag: Action-Attack, $5
+$1
Each other player looks at the top card of their deck and may discard it, then gains a Curse onto their deck.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 11:47:36 am by LastFootnote »
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