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Author Topic: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins!  (Read 97044 times)

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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1100 on: May 27, 2021, 01:50:20 pm »

I keep trying to post and MiX comes in and says exactly what I am trying to say.

We've talked too much about mafia theory to disagree on these things by now.
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scolapasta

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1101 on: May 27, 2021, 01:59:34 pm »

I'll be surprised if Eddie flips town.

If a governor intercedes, we won't get a flip at all. That would be vexing.

I think each player is absolutely responsible for how they are perceived.

Yes, they are. They are not responsible for how others read such perception as being townie or scummy.

What the heck is the difference between "how they are perceived" and "how others read such perception"?? I could understand if the first were "how they come across", but "how they are perceived" is from the perspective of the beholder.
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1102 on: May 27, 2021, 02:00:14 pm »

I'll be surprised if Eddie flips town.

If a governor intercedes, we won't get a flip at all. That would be vexing.

I think each player is absolutely responsible for how they are perceived.

Yes, they are. They are not responsible for how others read such perception as being townie or scummy.

What the heck is the difference between "how they are perceived" and "how others read such perception"?? I could understand if the first were "how they come across", but "how they are perceived" is from the perspective of the beholder.

The difference between you thinking I'm bad as town and I'm scummy.
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1103 on: May 27, 2021, 02:22:43 pm »

They might have been wrong from a technical win probability perspective because it probably undervalued how bad a single misexile is for town, but if you are so antagonizing to town that they would rather you be out of the game regardless of alignment, take a look in the mirror. Like someone else said, this is a group game. You can't win on your own (as town in most situations), so if you are alienating town by your play (even then they read you as town), then you aren't doing everything you can to win.

And, I just want to be completely clear, this is all pure theory at this point, because no one did that this game. I actually enjoyed Eddie being in the game, I just also happen to think he is the most likely person on the timeline to flip scum lol. If I'm wrong, it gets logged as a data point towards learning your meta.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1104 on: May 27, 2021, 02:25:14 pm »

Well, even though I disagree with you, Iím glad I didnít annoy you, lol.

Thatís whatís most important in the end anyway.

Iím just worried that some members of this group will think less of me once I flip town, which is not what I want to happen.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1105 on: May 27, 2021, 02:33:31 pm »

Well, even though I disagree with you, Iím glad I didnít annoy you, lol.

Thatís whatís most important in the end anyway.

Iím just worried that some members of this group will think less of me once I flip town, which is not what I want to happen.

If you flip town I'll mostly think less of me.

But I don't think you will.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1106 on: May 27, 2021, 02:46:52 pm »

I do separately think I may have found a WCD scumslip (posting it now, in case I die during the night):

Please enlighten me about this. Yesterday, when joth stalled at E-1, pingpongsam was like "wagon is stalled, he must be scum" and WCD agreed with him. Now Eddie's wagon is stalled at E-1 and WCD is like "wagon is stalled, he must be town". What is different between the two scenarios that would make you draw the opposite conclusion from the same data?

Dunno, really. Maybe that I am watching instead of playing. When I was playing (FT), I knew I was town.

Still mad that we havenít forgotten that you were defending your buddy Joth?

I knew that when Joth was still alive at x-1 that I was town. So I knew that there were town (me) not yet voting for him, and that made him scummy. With Eddie, I donít know anyoneís alignment, so there is more guessing. Iím not terribly invested because I canít vote anyway. If scum weíre already voting for him, then they couldnít hammer. They had to entice town to do it.

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1107 on: May 27, 2021, 02:52:37 pm »

Eddie funning with us on the "good luck to my partners" post was exactly the kind of thing MiX would do. I know it wasn't spiteful, but they are probably the only ones who actually found it funny outside of the scum team.  But most of us are un-funny most of the time, so eh...what can you do?

This sounds like you think Eddie is town. Why do you think that?

Like there's a chance, sure, but everything he's done today post twilight also makes sense from a scum who wasn't expecting twilight. So why fall on the side of "he's funning with us?"

This is obviously Eddie funning with us to me. When I first read it I was sad because I thought he was saying he was scum, which was his whole point. So, he got me with a prank that I should expect from the Uncle of all of Europe. And thatís funny, and he deserves the satisfaction of knowing he got me with the prank and that I see itís good natured.

I do think heís town, but that is completely irrelevant to the pranking/funning and completely irrelevant to the game since heís not in my timeline and I have no RT twilight power.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1108 on: May 27, 2021, 02:58:55 pm »

Schola, Iím not trying to be antagonistic. I do think itís really interesting, though, that you are coming at me guns blazing for an opinion of no consequence.
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1109 on: May 27, 2021, 03:00:40 pm »

Well, even though I disagree with you, Iím glad I didnít annoy you, lol.

Thatís whatís most important in the end anyway.

Iím just worried that some members of this group will think less of me once I flip town, which is not what I want to happen.

Nah, it wouldn't be thinking less of you, just that you played in a way that is more often representative of a general scum and so without a history to draw from it was reasonable to exile you, even if the calculus will have to change regarding you in the future.

But back replying more to MiX:
There's a difference between scummy behavior, a subjective description of an action or behavior that depends on your perception, and pro-scum behavior, which is ideally an objective claim that the action or behavior helps scum. "You defended yourself in a way that scum does" is subject and falls in the scummy bucket. "You picked a fight that dominated all conversation for the day and kept us from considering anything else and allowed scum to skate by the day" is to some extent more object and would be the pro-scum bucket.

Scummy behavior is what town should adjust their read to over time based on your play. Pro-scum behavior is what you can control and have a responsibility to avoid. I don't think you should change your play to fit what town thinks is subjectively "towny" unless you just want to. I do think you should avoid doing things that are actively pro-scum, and if that's something that you are getting called on and exiled for, then it's on you. Town can be wrong in their assessment of how much the thing actually helped scum, but there is a difference in the two categories and the accusations/arguments that result from them that shift where the primary responsibility lies for the misexile. Maybe a majority of town (or minority of town helped by scum) were actually wrong about something being pro-scum, it happens and often when it does it reflects scum playing well. However, if a town lobby nearly unaminously says "dude, you helped scum," then they are within their rights to exile you, and you probably shouldn't do that thing again in similar circumstances.

ppe 3
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1110 on: May 27, 2021, 03:03:25 pm »

Town is absolutely wrong in what is pro-scum and pro-town.

If all of town decides to jump off a bridge, I won't follow. I don't trust you to know what is pro-town or not.
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scolapasta

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1111 on: May 27, 2021, 03:25:22 pm »

Schola, Iím not trying to be antagonistic. I do think itís really interesting, though, that you are coming at me guns blazing for an opinion of no consequence.

I feel like a very studious sieve. And I get you're not trying to be antagonistic. I'm not worried of ever taking anything personally in this game.

I just have a read of you as scum; and the way I read that post felt like a slip. ("I" instead of "he") I do see now how you may have actually meant I. I don't think that adjusts my read on you, though.

I actually have yet to answer ash's attack on me, figured better to save until tomorrow. But if you read me as "defending" joth, that feels like scum trying to misrepresent what I was doing.

Which is why I thing tomorrow we should vote either you or ash. For some reason, from ash it feels like incorrect town and from you as scum, but I could see it being the other way too.
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1112 on: May 27, 2021, 03:27:17 pm »

Schola, Iím not trying to be antagonistic. I do think itís really interesting, though, that you are coming at me guns blazing for an opinion of no consequence.

I feel like a very studious sieve. And I get you're not trying to be antagonistic. I'm not worried of ever taking anything personally in this game.

I just have a read of you as scum; and the way I read that post felt like a slip. ("I" instead of "he") I do see now how you may have actually meant I. I don't think that adjusts my read on you, though.

I actually have yet to answer ash's attack on me, figured better to save until tomorrow. But if you read me as "defending" joth, that feels like scum trying to misrepresent what I was doing.

Which is why I thing tomorrow we should vote either you or ash. For some reason, from ash it feels like incorrect town and from you as scum, but I could see it being the other way too.

Oh, that explains why I didn't understand this slip. But I still don't. Why would Didds writing "I" instead of "he" be a scumslip?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1113 on: May 27, 2021, 03:30:58 pm »

Okay, MiX, put your chips into the table:

Am I Town or scum?
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1114 on: May 27, 2021, 03:33:18 pm »

Vote Count 3.Final:

Eddie (4): Awaclus, PPS, Glooble, hypercube
PPS (1): Eddie
Not Voting (7): MiX, EFHW, WCD, scolapasta, Galzria, Ashersky, Dylan32


With 6 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it took 4 to Exile.
Tonight, the active timeline is the REVERSE TIMELINE. We will remain in the REVERSE TIMELINE until the start of Day 4.

Night 3 starts now and ends Saturday, May 29th at 7:35pm Forum Time.
Night Actions are due within 36 hours.


Eddie has been exiled! They were Sammy Jenkins, the Town Aligned 2-Shot Insulin Doctor!


Thread Locked!

« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 07:34:45 pm by Swowl »
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1115 on: May 30, 2021, 04:28:00 pm »

Vote Count 4.0:

Not Voting (10): EFHW, WCD, scolapasta, Galzria, Dylan32, Awaclus, PPS, Glooble, hypercube, MiX


With 5 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 3 to Exile.
Today, the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 5.
Day 4 ends Sunday, June 6th at 4:25pm Forum Time.


Asherskyhas been Killed! They were John Smith, the Town Aligned Activated Innocent Child


Thread Unlocked!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 05:41:24 pm by Swowl »
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1116 on: May 30, 2021, 05:11:01 pm »

Okay, MiX, put your chips into the table:

Am I Town or scum?

Town, apparently.

Okay, hopefully I'll have time to reread for this day. I'll try to ISO joth and pps specifically as I'm pretty sure pps is scum.

Also, we might want to claim. But my gut tells me it's not quite the time yet.
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1117 on: May 30, 2021, 05:21:07 pm »

Also, hmm...

Can you update the thread to say "Day 4"?

Ashersky has been exiled! They were John Smith, the Town Aligned Activated Innocent Child

This shouldn't say exiled, can you fix that?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 4!
« Reply #1118 on: May 30, 2021, 05:55:38 pm »

Iím going to be voting for Scola today

EFHW, Galz, Dylan. What are you thinking?
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« Reply #1119 on: May 30, 2021, 06:37:40 pm »

I do separately think I may have found a WCD scumslip (posting it now, in case I die during the night):

Please enlighten me about this. Yesterday, when joth stalled at E-1, pingpongsam was like "wagon is stalled, he must be scum" and WCD agreed with him. Now Eddie's wagon is stalled at E-1 and WCD is like "wagon is stalled, he must be town". What is different between the two scenarios that would make you draw the opposite conclusion from the same data?

Dunno, really. Maybe that I am watching instead of playing. When I was playing (FT), I knew I was town.


Schola, Iím not trying to be antagonistic. I do think itís really interesting, though, that you are coming at me guns blazing for an opinion of no consequence.

I feel like a very studious sieve. And I get you're not trying to be antagonistic. I'm not worried of ever taking anything personally in this game.

I just have a read of you as scum; and the way I read that post felt like a slip. ("I" instead of "he") I do see now how you may have actually meant I. I don't think that adjusts my read on you, though.

Iím still not following you. I didnít mean ďheĒ. I meant ďIĒ. When we were in the forward timeline, I knew I was town. I donít even know where there should be a he. I was talking about me and my perception.

But whatevs... you were Ashís top scum read. Ash was town. Youíre my top scum read, Iím town.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 4!
« Reply #1120 on: May 30, 2021, 07:54:30 pm »

I'm shocked that Uncle was town.

My reads are useless this game apparently.
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scolapasta

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 4!
« Reply #1121 on: May 31, 2021, 12:24:12 am »

I'm away this weekend, but don't vote me. I'm a mason.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 4!
« Reply #1122 on: May 31, 2021, 01:23:58 am »

I'm away this weekend, but don't vote me. I'm a mason.

Almost forgot - with gloobie.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 4!
« Reply #1123 on: May 31, 2021, 04:29:25 am »

Ok, guess weíre claiming. We were discussing this in the QT but I was planning to be a little more subtle about it.

Scola and I are masons. He is a bad exile today.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 4!
« Reply #1124 on: May 31, 2021, 09:00:25 am »

I'm pretty sad Eddie turned out to be town, his fakeclaim of scum really got me. I don't understand why he suggested I'd hammer him if I was town, I guess he just really didn't think I could be town. It turned out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy I suppose.

The mason claim seems plausible to me - mostly because it seems super risky for scum to try right now and I was already townreading Glooble.
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