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Author Topic: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins!  (Read 130472 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #575 on: May 17, 2021, 10:02:37 am »

joth, who would you exile other than ashersky?

In this timeline or in either timeline?
This one

You, because Glooble's making sense. Or Galz for lurking.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #576 on: May 17, 2021, 10:35:38 am »

There WCD goes dropping the occasional reason for me to scumread them.

Probably when WCD is town anyway.

Sigh...

I just can’t read her properly.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #577 on: May 17, 2021, 10:36:52 am »

joth, who would you exile other than ashersky?

In this timeline or in either timeline?
This one

You, because Glooble's making sense. Or Galz for lurking.

He always lurks.

(Ima try and fit in a few Faust-isms)
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #578 on: May 17, 2021, 10:47:33 am »

There WCD goes dropping the occasional reason for me to scumread them.

Probably when WCD is town anyway.

Sigh...

I just can’t read her properly.

Yes, I'm also sensing some scuminess there.

This ash vote doesn't seem to be going anywhere, though not sure how much is Glaz being absent. I'm thinking I'll switch to WCD (or EFHW) by this evening.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #579 on: May 17, 2021, 12:50:15 pm »

Does scum ever actually try to get an accidental hammer at this point in the game? Or is Glooble just reaching to deflect from joth?
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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #580 on: May 17, 2021, 12:55:25 pm »


This ignores the E-1 elephant that's been standing in the room for some time now. Diverting from that is far scummier.
Quote
I literally don’t understand what you’re saying here.

Can you tell me why there's been no hammer or intent to hammer if Joth is town? I see a sustained stalled E-1 as indicative of scum. Picking on the town who put him there is what I am calling scummy.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #581 on: May 17, 2021, 12:58:49 pm »


This ignores the E-1 elephant that's been standing in the room for some time now. Diverting from that is far scummier.
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I literally don’t understand what you’re saying here.

Can you tell me why there's been no hammer or intent to hammer if Joth is town? I see a sustained stalled E-1 as indicative of scum. Picking on the town who put him there is what I am calling scummy.

There's been no hammer or intent to hammer because it takes four to exile and there aren't four players who want to exile joth? Because he's town.

Boom! Solved it for ya.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #582 on: May 17, 2021, 12:59:25 pm »

Does scum ever actually try to get an accidental hammer at this point in the game? Or is Glooble just reaching to deflect from joth?

Well, they're clearly failing to get an intentional hammer.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #583 on: May 17, 2021, 01:00:23 pm »

I see a sustained stalled E-1 as indicative of scum.

Do you have a shred of evidence for this interpretation of the days events?
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #584 on: May 17, 2021, 01:03:44 pm »

I see a sustained stalled E-1 as indicative of scum.

Do you have a shred of evidence for this interpretation of the days events?

If I were scum and the wagon was on town I would hammer.
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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #585 on: May 17, 2021, 01:06:00 pm »

I see a sustained stalled E-1 as indicative of scum.

Do you have a shred of evidence for this interpretation of the days events?


Also I edited a post of Joth's that basically took away the window dressing and showed it for the scum it was. I'd say Joth's own arguments are the evidence.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #586 on: May 17, 2021, 01:07:06 pm »

I see a sustained stalled E-1 as indicative of scum.

Do you have a shred of evidence for this interpretation of the days events?


Also I edited a post of Joth's that basically took away the window dressing and showed it for the scum it was. I'd say Joth's own arguments are the evidence.

Ash's arguments are so much scummier than joth's. I can't believe we're reading the same game.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #587 on: May 17, 2021, 01:08:17 pm »

Ash's arguments are so much scummier than joth's. I can't believe we're reading the same game.

Only in the context of defense instead of offense.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #588 on: May 17, 2021, 01:09:44 pm »

Also, though, only half the players in the game can vote and one of them is Galz, who has been MIA. So it's basically 4 out of 6 needed to exile right now, really out of 5, since joth isn't going to self-vote. That would stall literally any wagon. It's NAI.

Ash's arguments are so much scummier than joth's. I can't believe we're reading the same game.

Only in the context of defense instead of offense.

What does this even mean?
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hypercube

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #589 on: May 17, 2021, 01:14:18 pm »

Also, though, only half the players in the game can vote and one of them is Galz, who has been MIA. So it's basically 4 out of 6 needed to exile right now, really out of 5, since joth isn't going to self-vote. That would stall literally any wagon. It's NAI.

Would it stall a wagon on town? If we assume 2 scum then that's only 2 town they need to be on wagon.
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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #590 on: May 17, 2021, 01:16:22 pm »

I've taken an incredibly innocuous and non-controversial position

Defensive scum posturing intended to make ash's play look scummy I guess? It looks like a pretty straightforward defense of being targeted scum instead of actually, say, scum hunting.

Quote
And no, town absolutely won't actually exile you after I flip.

Here we are with the absolutes that only scum can have. Why would we flip ash if Joth flips scum. It'd be a ballsy and unnecessary bus so I don't think we'd wager that chance until some investigative results indicated we should.

Quote
If I thought they would, I might consider embracing your 1v1...These 1v1s are basically always bad for town....I'm also not moving my vote.

So basically, if he thought this could work out to his advantage he'd take the bait. Also note the wishy washiness of the "almost" always statement. Instead of saying these are never good for town he's implying that maybe this one right here actually is.


I get what he's trying to say but how he says it seems telling to me. I don't see how anyone reads this as anything but scum. I'd like to see your interpretation of it, though.
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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #591 on: May 17, 2021, 01:21:23 pm »

Also, though, only half the players in the game can vote and one of them is Galz, who has been MIA. So it's basically 4 out of 6 needed to exile right now, really out of 5, since joth isn't going to self-vote. That would stall literally any wagon. It's NAI.

Would it stall a wagon on town? If we assume 2 scum then that's only 2 town they need to be on wagon.

I already answered this question with regards to how I personally view the wagon. I suppose at this point it would just be a question about the worthiness of my playstyle. What I would not have done is joined the wagon early with that type of baiting. So I am assuming that if Joth were town then the early voters were as well. I would agree with arguments that no one else would play like me, I guess. This is ash we're talking about, though, and I like to think I can read him better than most. I don't see scum ash doing this. I don't see town ash doing this without supporting evidence to do so which he alluded to.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #592 on: May 17, 2021, 01:24:31 pm »

Also, though, only half the players in the game can vote and one of them is Galz, who has been MIA. So it's basically 4 out of 6 needed to exile right now, really out of 5, since joth isn't going to self-vote. That would stall literally any wagon. It's NAI.

Would it stall a wagon on town? If we assume 2 scum then that's only 2 town they need to be on wagon.

Just want to point out the hypocrisy of "If we assume two scum" here while people are literally about to exile joth for assuming two scum. Because if, as Ash says, it could be 1 and 3 or 4 and 0 or any other random combination, than why would a stalled wagon be indicative of anything? If you want to use the "stalled wagon = scum" argument against joth, you have to acknowledge that he and I have a point about the likelyhood of 2 scum per timeline, and then your whole case on joth pretty much falls apart.
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #593 on: May 17, 2021, 01:26:43 pm »

Also, though, only half the players in the game can vote and one of them is Galz, who has been MIA. So it's basically 4 out of 6 needed to exile right now, really out of 5, since joth isn't going to self-vote. That would stall literally any wagon. It's NAI.

Would it stall a wagon on town? If we assume 2 scum then that's only 2 town they need to be on wagon.

Just want to point out the hypocrisy of "If we assume two scum" here while people are literally about to exile joth for assuming two scum. Because if, as Ash says, it could be 1 and 3 or 4 and 0 or any other random combination, than why would a stalled wagon be indicative of anything? If you want to use the "stalled wagon = scum" argument against joth, you have to acknowledge that he and I have a point about the likelyhood of 2 scum per timeline, and then your whole case on joth pretty much falls apart.

But in what way does the amount of scum have anything to do with anyone being scum?
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #594 on: May 17, 2021, 01:28:49 pm »



Here we are with the absolutes that only scum can have. Why would we flip ash if Joth flips scum. It'd be a ballsy and unnecessary bus so I don't think we'd wager that chance until some investigative results indicated we should.

Quote
If I thought they would, I might consider embracing your 1v1...These 1v1s are basically always bad for town....I'm also not moving my vote.

So basically, if he thought this could work out to his advantage he'd take the bait. Also note the wishy washiness of the "almost" always statement. Instead of saying these are never good for town he's implying that maybe this one right here actually is.


I get what he's trying to say but how he says it seems telling to me. I don't see how anyone reads this as anything but scum. I'd like to see your interpretation of it, though.

I think you're completely misunderstanding this interaction. Joth was saying, "If I flip town, the town won't exile you." He was basically telling ash that he believes that if he accepted the one-on-one and Ash won, ash would find some way to weasel out of actually getting exiled, and given that he wouldn't be eligible to be exiled again until day 4 anyway, he'd have plenty of time to do it. In between we'd had all manner of night actions and things that would present a stronger case, or that scum!ash could spin as reasons not to follow through with town's promise to exile him if joth flipped town.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #595 on: May 17, 2021, 01:29:33 pm »

Also, though, only half the players in the game can vote and one of them is Galz, who has been MIA. So it's basically 4 out of 6 needed to exile right now, really out of 5, since joth isn't going to self-vote. That would stall literally any wagon. It's NAI.

Would it stall a wagon on town? If we assume 2 scum then that's only 2 town they need to be on wagon.

Just want to point out the hypocrisy of "If we assume two scum" here while people are literally about to exile joth for assuming two scum. Because if, as Ash says, it could be 1 and 3 or 4 and 0 or any other random combination, than why would a stalled wagon be indicative of anything? If you want to use the "stalled wagon = scum" argument against joth, you have to acknowledge that he and I have a point about the likelyhood of 2 scum per timeline, and then your whole case on joth pretty much falls apart.

But in what way does the amount of scum have anything to do with anyone being scum?

Because if there's only one scum in the forward timeline then the "wagon stalled because joth is scum" argument doesn't work. Because the only scum would be joth.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #596 on: May 17, 2021, 01:35:19 pm »

Just want to point out the hypocrisy of "If we assume two scum" here while people are literally about to exile joth for assuming two scum. Because if, as Ash says, it could be 1 and 3 or 4 and 0 or any other random combination, than why would a stalled wagon be indicative of anything? If you want to use the "stalled wagon = scum" argument against joth, you have to acknowledge that he and I have a point about the likelyhood of 2 scum per timeline, and then your whole case on joth pretty much falls apart.

I think 2 scum/timeline is the most likely scenario. That's different from saying it's wrong to consider other options.

In any case my read on joth isn't based on him saying there are 2 scum/timeline - I was scumreading him for other reasons D1 and I think he overreacted to ash pushing him.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #597 on: May 17, 2021, 01:38:00 pm »

Just want to point out the hypocrisy of "If we assume two scum" here while people are literally about to exile joth for assuming two scum. Because if, as Ash says, it could be 1 and 3 or 4 and 0 or any other random combination, than why would a stalled wagon be indicative of anything? If you want to use the "stalled wagon = scum" argument against joth, you have to acknowledge that he and I have a point about the likelyhood of 2 scum per timeline, and then your whole case on joth pretty much falls apart.

I think 2 scum/timeline is the most likely scenario. That's different from saying it's wrong to consider other options.

In any case my read on joth isn't based on him saying there are 2 scum/timeline - I was scumreading him for other reasons D1 and I think he overreacted to ash pushing him.

That's fair. I guess I just don't see the defensiveness everyone else seems to be seeing from joth. And I am seeing this kind of bullying behavior from ash where he's trying to make people seem dumb for not taking his side, and that comes off way scummier to me than joth's defense.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #598 on: May 17, 2021, 01:39:03 pm »

I have to take issue with this idea that my not pointing out ash's mistake makes me scummy. I wasn't on during the period in question. Now that you point it out, I think it is quite strange that he posted an incorrect vc like that. No way to know if that was scummy or careless on his part. Why is it my responsibility more than anyone else's to point out his unannounced E-1?

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #599 on: May 17, 2021, 01:44:25 pm »

I have to take issue with this idea that my not pointing out ash's mistake makes me scummy. I wasn't on during the period in question. Now that you point it out, I think it is quite strange that he posted an incorrect vc like that. No way to know if that was scummy or careless on his part. Why is it my responsibility more than anyone else's to point out his unannounced E-1?

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My initial thought was that you weren't on during the period in question, but then when you responded to me, you said you "didn't notice it". That, to me, implied that you'd seen the vote and just not noticed. Because if you hadn't been online, why wouldn't you have just said "I wasn't online"?
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