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Author Topic: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins!  (Read 25967 times)

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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #525 on: May 15, 2021, 08:14:25 am »

Maybe I can phrase it differently:

Do you think I'm lying?  Or do you think I'm wrong?

If it's the former, you have to decide why, probably settle on me being not town, and would look to exile me.
if it's the latter, you have to accept that it's possible I'm town and wrong, or that you are wrong and I'm right.

That's if you want to make this about me.  I'd rather you make it about joth.

Do you think he's lying?  Or do you think he's right?  Or do you think he's wrong?  Or do you think it is some mix of those?

Decide what that means to you.  Like, if he's on a 3-person mafia team with 1 in this timeline and 2 in the other, than I'd say he's just lying.  Yes, he's wrong, but being wrong on purpose, so I wouldn't give him that adjective.  But if he's an SK with no further knowledge, then he's lying, but could be right or wrong at the same time.

I guess he could be lying town, but that seems unlikely.  Only very few of us go that route.

Lying about what? It seems your entire argument stems from the supposed fact that joth is saying he knows there's exactly two scum in each timeline. If he was saying that, then it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, he's either lying or he's scum.

As for you, lying about what? You haven't made any absolute statements as far as I can tell, unless the statement is "joth is absolutely stating that there's exactly two scum in each timeline", which is an opinion.

Here's what I think: you are completely overexaggerating joth's statement, and joth is responding to it like he would as scum. So he's probably scum. This has nothing to do with the original argument, just the way joth's responding by saying "oh yes actually everything I have said is perfectly rational and therefore your argument is incorrect" instead of saying "yeah yeah yeah I don't care cause I'm town lolololol" (not that he would say that, but I don't know the joth equivalent).
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #526 on: May 15, 2021, 08:15:46 am »

I feel like I need to step on in here a bit, (this being from someone with little trust for Joth, and a lack of understanding of who the heck ashersky is as a player)

If it ainít Joth/Ash in this timeline, who is it?

That is a question we should at least spend a day on, right?
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #527 on: May 15, 2021, 08:20:54 am »

I feel like I need to step on in here a bit, (this being from someone with little trust for Joth, and a lack of understanding of who the heck ashersky is as a player)

If it ainít Joth/Ash in this timeline, who is it?

That is a question we should at least spend a day on, right?

I have no idea, I'm not paying enough attention to this timeline. EFHW isn't being obv!scum, I don't remember anything from Dylan so he's scum?, Didds and Galzria are playing the game I think? And I don't know what scola's doing besides side with joth here.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #528 on: May 15, 2021, 01:22:46 pm »

Hey yíall-

Iím on a weekend holiday, so pretty VLA until Monday.

Iím not sure when deadline is, but Iím cool with my vote.
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chairs

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #529 on: May 15, 2021, 02:28:10 pm »

Heads up weekends are basically auto vla for me currently, I'll try to check in but I'm not sure I really have much to say.

Dylan32

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #530 on: May 15, 2021, 02:31:56 pm »

For what it's worth, I guess with Joth or Ash are exiled today and flip town, I'd agree to exiling the other next available chance, but I'm not convinced that should be the center of our focus right now.  I mean, I'm currently voting Didds, which I only feel like noting because Ash left it off of his VC, which was maybe on purpose if he was emphasizing the 1v1. So if we aren't going to actually take sides on the shootout, vote people. Let's start a wagon so we actually have something to look at later.
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #531 on: May 15, 2021, 02:32:29 pm »

For what it's worth, I guess if Joth or Ash are exiled today and flip town, I'd agree to exiling the other next available chance, but I'm not convinced that should be the center of our focus right now.  I mean, I'm currently voting Didds, which I only feel like noting because Ash left it off of his VC, which was maybe on purpose if he was emphasizing the 1v1. So if we aren't going to actually take sides on the shootout, vote people. Let's start a wagon so we actually have something to look at later.

EBWOP
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #532 on: May 15, 2021, 05:04:55 pm »

You're right I don't agree with your artificially created 1v1. That doesn't mean I can't still vote for you.

But I am also looking at other options - i.e I'm not doing it because I believe this 1v1.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #533 on: May 15, 2021, 07:54:50 pm »

Vote Count 2.4:

Joth (3): WCD, EFHW, Ashersky
Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
WestCoastDidds (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (8): Galzria, MiX, Eddie, chairs, hypercube, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus


With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 3.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

EFHW

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #534 on: May 15, 2021, 08:36:24 pm »

I need to do a proper reread and do some real scumhunting instead of letting ash distract me with his BS. Perhaps I'll have time today.

Still hoping to see this!
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #535 on: May 15, 2021, 09:41:30 pm »

I need to do a proper reread and do some real scumhunting instead of letting ash distract me with his BS. Perhaps I'll have time today.

Still hoping to see this!

I should have time tomorrow.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #536 on: May 15, 2021, 10:51:42 pm »

I need to do a proper reread and do some real scumhunting instead of letting ash distract me with his BS. Perhaps I'll have time today.

Still hoping to see this!

I should have time tomorrow.

FYI, you are at E-1.  Like a real one, because I'm already voting.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #537 on: May 15, 2021, 10:53:20 pm »

Real VC 2:

Joth (3): WCD, EFHW, Ashersky
Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
WestCoastDidds (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (1): Galzria

With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.



Dylan or Galz could vote me and make the other a kingmaker.  Fun times.
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #538 on: May 16, 2021, 02:34:28 am »

Ok, this is interesting to me.

Joth (3): WCD, EFHW, Ashersky
Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
WestCoastDidds (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (1): Galzria

Combining that vote count with a couple town reads of mine, I'm thinking it's either two of {Didds, Ash, Galz} or {Joth, Galz}. I don't think scum would be bussing here. (I'm going to ignore the case where there is only one scum on this timeline, because partner analysis obviously means nothing in that case, even though it's technically possible).

If joth is scum (and no bussing), scum would be in {scola, Galz}. After BSGs1 being scum partners with scola, I just think this is town scola. At the very least, I don't think scola and Joth are partners, because this hasn't sounded like how scola played in relation to Jack and I that game. Thus, I'm left with thinking Joth and Galz are a possible team. If there are more than 2 scum teammates on this timeline, then on the one hand bussing would be less risky, but it would be almost completely unnecessary. So assuming they aren't, that would leave {Joth, scola, Galz} as partners in that case.

If Ash is scum, there are obviously more combinations, like {Ash, Didds | EFHW | Galz}. Based on very little except a gut read based on past games, I think EFHW is town. I don't feel as strongly about this as my read on scola, but it's there. So {Ash, Didds | Galz}. If Ash isn't scum though (and Joth isn't either), then at least 2 of {scola, EFHW, Didds, Galz} are scum, and if I take out my town reads I'm left with Didds and Galz.

Normally, I wouldn't think stuff like this is very useful, and maybe it's not, but it feels like with this setup being what it is, I think scum not bussing a timeline partner early feels like a very safe assumption to make, which cuts out quite a few of the possible combos based on these wagons.

Based on Galz being in both of the possible sets, part of me wants to move my vote there, but I'm going to stick with Didds for now.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #539 on: May 16, 2021, 08:03:16 am »

Lying about what? It seems your entire argument stems from the supposed fact that joth is saying he knows there's exactly two scum in each timeline. If he was saying that, then it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, he's either lying or he's scum.

This really is what's weird to me about ash's argument - if joth is telling the truth he's scum, so why frame it as exiling joth for lying. It's a lapse in logic on ash's part but I'm not sure  that it's an alignment-indicative one.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #540 on: May 16, 2021, 08:13:11 am »

I do think that joth's comment about ash being "wrong" could be a scumslip, and I don't like his reaction to ash's pressure. That and his reaction to mathdude's exile is enough that I'd be voting for him today if I could.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #541 on: May 16, 2021, 08:30:48 am »

Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
Joth (1): WCD

Not Voting (4): EFHW, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria

With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.


This is what's actually happening today, right?

vote: joth although that's obvious.  That makes it 2 each.  Galz needs to catch up, not sure what EFHW and Dylan are thinking.

So ash is putting Joth to L-1 here, either having missed EFHWs vote or intentionally leaving it out to get an ďaccidentalĒ hammer before joth can claim.

Whether itís an accident or intentional, thereís almost 5 hours between this vote and Swowl posting 2.4, indicating that joth is actually at L-1. During that time, if joth is town, any scum in the forward timeline not already voting for him would have had perfect cover to ďaccidentallyĒ hammer.

I feel like thereís something useful here, I just donít have time to fully dig into it right now.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #542 on: May 16, 2021, 08:56:05 am »

I guess this mostly just applies to Dylan- he posted during that interval, I think if he were scum and joth were town itís likely he wouldnít have been able to pass up the chance to hammer and pretend he thought he was just putting joth to E-1. Galz was not around, and scola had already expressed such strong feels towards exiling ash that a swap would have looked too suspicious.

Wait a sec I just looked at the times again, I missed the AM/ PM shift. It wasnít 5 hours it was 16- 3:33 am to 7:54 pm. Thatís a long time.

EFHW didnít post during this interval so itís possible she wasnít around, but I think itís a tad scummy of her not to have pointed out the error.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #543 on: May 16, 2021, 08:58:58 am »

So, in summary, ash is scummy for saying he was putting joth at E-2 when he was putting him at E-1, though I wonít rule out an honest mistake. EFHW is scummy for not pointing out her vote, though itís possible she didnít check in during that time, it was 16 hours which is a significant amount of time not to check into the game. And if joth is town, then I think Dylan is probably town, because he would have passed up a great opportunity to secure a misexile with an excellent excuse.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #544 on: May 16, 2021, 10:54:54 am »

I will say that Joth has been acting slightly more townie in private than he has in the main thread.

Not much, but enough that I found it worth mentioning.

The main issue I am having is that both versions of a Joth would be frustrated at Ash right now.

I guess I feel pretty confident that Ash and Joth ainít scum buddies, but thatís it.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 1!
« Reply #545 on: May 16, 2021, 12:39:14 pm »

Glooble's two game observation suggests to me that there is an even number of scum, most likely 4, or two teams of two. Is that balanced for a 16 player game? Maybe there's a 3rd party, too.

Just pointing out that EFHW started discussion on this topic on day 1. Wonder why ash didn't jump in then? Could it be because his outrage is entirely artificial?
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #546 on: May 16, 2021, 12:57:06 pm »

I just re-read D1 and honestly, I got nothing. Pretty much everyone in this timeline barely participated yesterday. Ash did nearly 100% setup talk. Didds barely checked in. EFHW was the most participate-y and mostly tunneled on me, which I could try to make a case out of but it would just look like OMGUS. For the record it was a bad case but struck me as a towny bad case. I don't even remember scola, Dylan, or Galz's posts or lack thereof.

Should I claim? Would that be helpful?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #547 on: May 16, 2021, 02:15:09 pm »

I just re-read D1 and honestly, I got nothing. Pretty much everyone in this timeline barely participated yesterday. Ash did nearly 100% setup talk. Didds barely checked in. EFHW was the most participate-y and mostly tunneled on me, which I could try to make a case out of but it would just look like OMGUS. For the record it was a bad case but struck me as a towny bad case. I don't even remember scola, Dylan, or Galz's posts or lack thereof.

Should I claim? Would that be helpful?

I think so.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #548 on: May 16, 2021, 03:19:56 pm »

Ok. I'm Kimberly Campbell. I'm a 2-shot roleblocker.

Kimberly Campbell (the name in my PM) is actually the name of the actor who played the unnamed "escort" in the movie, but I assume I'm meant to be the character.

I couldn't use my power last night because, you know, timelines.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #549 on: May 16, 2021, 05:26:52 pm »

How does Roleblocker fit with your flavor?
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