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Author Topic: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins!  (Read 25971 times)

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ashersky

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #425 on: May 12, 2021, 12:04:05 pm »

Why double votes to check switching?  Shouldn’t it be one vote at a time?  What if both switched?  You wouldn’t know if the first one counter.

vote: MiX to rule him out.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #426 on: May 12, 2021, 12:13:34 pm »

Why double votes to check switching?  Shouldn’t it be one vote at a time?  What if both switched?  You wouldn’t know if the first one counter.

vote: MiX to rule him out.

If neither switched no vote won't show up (or change, since now I'm on galz; I should've unvoted first, but it shouldn't really make a difference) and we can quickly confirm 2 non switchers. If vote 1 switched, but not vote 2, we also confirm that with the double vote. Only if the the vote shows up for the Vote 2 does it matter -  that would mean either only vote 2 switched or both, but then we can just check 1 separately. Doing 2 at a time is just more efficient, until (unless) we confirm that any switcher exists.
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #427 on: May 12, 2021, 12:17:22 pm »

Why double votes to check switching?  Shouldn’t it be one vote at a time?  What if both switched?  You wouldn’t know if the first one counter.

vote: MiX to rule him out.

If neither switched no vote won't show up (or change, since now I'm on galz; I should've unvoted first, but it shouldn't really make a difference) and we can quickly confirm 2 non switchers. If vote 1 switched, but not vote 2, we also confirm that with the double vote. Only if the the vote shows up for the Vote 2 does it matter -  that would mean either only vote 2 switched or both, but then we can just check 1 separately. Doing 2 at a time is just more efficient, until (unless) we confirm that any switcher exists.

By that logic, you should vote everyone in reverse: the most likely scenario is no one changed, given people flip with their timeline.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #428 on: May 12, 2021, 12:24:39 pm »

More than 2 scum in a timeline is borderline impossible for town. You have to vote unanimously to exile anyone and if you misexile once and then scum succeeds on a nightkill town just loses. There is no way that's the setup. I'm sorry that's just math.

Only one scum in a timeline is the opposite problem, it's virtually impossible for scum to win.

If the setup is balanced, there are two scum per timeline. Unless it's multiball or we have neutral third parties of some sort. Which the "non-town" wording of math's power would lend support to.

Still, I think it's fine to start with the assumption of two scum per timeline.
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MiX

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #429 on: May 12, 2021, 12:26:22 pm »

More than 2 scum in a timeline is borderline impossible for town. You have to vote unanimously to exile anyone and if you misexile once and then scum succeeds on a nightkill town just loses. There is no way that's the setup. I'm sorry that's just math.

Only one scum in a timeline is the opposite problem, it's virtually impossible for scum to win.

If the setup is balanced, there are two scum per timeline. Unless it's multiball or we have neutral third parties of some sort. Which the "non-town" wording of math's power would lend support to.

Still, I think it's fine to start with the assumption of two scum per timeline.

3 and 1 scum in a timeline works if we converge timelines. This seems to go in line with timelines not being guaranteed to swap back and forth: they'll just stop eventually.

Other than that, I think you're right.
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scolapasta

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #430 on: May 12, 2021, 01:04:36 pm »

Why double votes to check switching?  Shouldn’t it be one vote at a time?  What if both switched?  You wouldn’t know if the first one counter.

vote: MiX to rule him out.

If neither switched no vote won't show up (or change, since now I'm on galz; I should've unvoted first, but it shouldn't really make a difference) and we can quickly confirm 2 non switchers. If vote 1 switched, but not vote 2, we also confirm that with the double vote. Only if the the vote shows up for the Vote 2 does it matter -  that would mean either only vote 2 switched or both, but then we can just check 1 separately. Doing 2 at a time is just more efficient, until (unless) we confirm that any switcher exists.

By that logic, you should vote everyone in reverse: the most likely scenario is no one changed, given people flip with their timeline.

Good point:


Unvote
Vote: gloobie
Vote: MiX
Vote: Eddie
Vote: chairs
Vote: hypercube
Vote: PPS
Vote: Awaclus


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jotheonah

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #431 on: May 12, 2021, 03:14:04 pm »

I agree that the two mafia per timeline thing is super terribad and anti-town.  It’s also insulting to the mod.  This is a 16-player setup.  To argue that only four non-town is somehow balanced is yucky. 

You yourself said that this is essentially two games of mafia interlocked with each other. Why is it such a stretch to think that scum would be equally represented in the two games?
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Swowl

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #432 on: May 12, 2021, 03:16:46 pm »

Vote Count 2.2:

Dylan32 (1): WCD
Not Voting (13): EFHW, Joth, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria, MiX, Eddie, chairs, hypercube, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus, scolapasta


With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 3.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 05:18:36 pm by Swowl »
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #433 on: May 12, 2021, 03:16:53 pm »

Honestly, ash's comment really rubs me the wrong way. In addition to being wrong, it's combative and AtE.

vote: ash
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #434 on: May 12, 2021, 03:22:43 pm »

I'll put it down officially: that was definitely a terrible use of mathdude's power and it was a complete waste of time.

We know that exactly 0, 1, 3, or 4 of the following set of players is non-town: Glooble, Awaclus, MiX, hypercube, mathdude

We got a mathdude, flip, so now we know that exactly 0, 1, 3, or 4 of the following set of players is non-town: Glooble, Awaclus, MiX, hypercube

I mean...how is that useful in any meaningful way?

The argument for 0 was that we at least removed the single option that was different, in that it assured us of something, a guarantee that mafia was in the set.  We don't even have that.

I guess the argument was betting on 2 was the best chance at a big payout?  Like various odds at the craps table?  Man, that didn't work out.

You can really read this as scum actually being worried about the info we gained from math's power and rushing in first thing in the day to throw smoke up and discredit it.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #435 on: May 12, 2021, 03:33:18 pm »

Vote Count 2.2:

Galzria (1): WCD
Not Voting (13): EFHW, Joth, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria, MiX, Eddie, chairs, hypercube, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus, scolapasta


With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 3.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.


So, we need to see if the active t/l people really can vote and be voted for?

Vote: Dylan

Swowl, just double checking is your VC correct?
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scolapasta

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #436 on: May 12, 2021, 03:34:06 pm »

So, we need to see if the active t/l people really can vote and be voted for?

Vote: Dylan


Vote Count 2.2:

Galzria (1): WCD
...


Swowl, is this a typo?
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scolapasta

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #437 on: May 12, 2021, 03:34:57 pm »

Ha! We could that at the same time! :)
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #438 on: May 12, 2021, 03:50:13 pm »

Jinx!
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #439 on: May 12, 2021, 04:01:19 pm »

I'll put it down officially: that was definitely a terrible use of mathdude's power and it was a complete waste of time.

We know that exactly 0, 1, 3, or 4 of the following set of players is non-town: Glooble, Awaclus, MiX, hypercube, mathdude

We got a mathdude, flip, so now we know that exactly 0, 1, 3, or 4 of the following set of players is non-town: Glooble, Awaclus, MiX, hypercube

I mean...how is that useful in any meaningful way?

The argument for 0 was that we at least removed the single option that was different, in that it assured us of something, a guarantee that mafia was in the set.  We don't even have that.

I guess the argument was betting on 2 was the best chance at a big payout?  Like various odds at the craps table?  Man, that didn't work out.

You can really read this as scum actually being worried about the info we gained from math's power and rushing in first thing in the day to throw smoke up and discredit it.

That's what I was trying to say. Thank you for saying it in a clearer way.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #440 on: May 12, 2021, 05:18:54 pm »

Vote Count 2.2 has been corrected.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #441 on: May 12, 2021, 06:14:00 pm »

Thanks, dude! Next up,

Vote: Scola
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chairs

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #442 on: May 12, 2021, 06:41:13 pm »

This setup just keeps devolving me into setup theory, like "maybe scum can only kill people from the inactive timeline" type stuff.

ashersky

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #443 on: May 12, 2021, 10:17:40 pm »

joth and Glooble are the ones that seem scared, flailing, and doing their very best to convince town of a "fact" that is definitely just a random, terrible opinion.

Hey, town, it's clear that there MUST be this X factor in the game because any other option would be crazy and unfair!

That's a completely unsubstantiated, and honestly insulting, kind of statement to continue pushing.  I'd expect it from certain playstyles, like MiX, but joth/glooble are general more thoughtful, insightful, and open to the opinions of others and the infinite possibilities of creativity.

I mean, glooble even shoots his own lie in the foot when he admits to the wrench being thrown in the assumption when he points out the requirement of non-town as the wording.

There is ZERO proof or certainty that there are exactly two non-town players in one or both timelines. None. Only the non-town teams themselves could possibly know that, and even then, they can't know if there are other non-town players.

So continuing to parade around this lie as truth is anti-town at best and malicious at worst.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #444 on: May 12, 2021, 10:25:17 pm »

Thanks, dude! Next up,

Vote: Scola

Why me? we already saw I can vote this timeline:

Vote Count 2.1:

Galzria (1): scolapasta
...
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ashersky

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #445 on: May 12, 2021, 10:29:26 pm »

Just a thought -- is it possible MiX convinced mathdude to use the 2 plan in their QT?  That's a great move for anti-town as the progenitor of the plan looks like a town player, but could have actually been an implant from mafia.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #446 on: May 12, 2021, 10:38:31 pm »

OK, ready to place a more real vote:

Vote: ash
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #447 on: May 12, 2021, 11:15:19 pm »

I can’t read ash.

It is annoying me.

Joth has definitely been raising my eyebrows all game. No idea what to make of him.

Now that they are opposed makes me even more annoyed.

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #448 on: May 12, 2021, 11:37:51 pm »


Why me? we already saw I can vote this timeline:

Vote Count 2.1:

Galzria (1): scolapasta
...

My bad. Vote: Joth
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ashersky

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #449 on: May 13, 2021, 12:04:00 am »

I'd be up for an old school wild west shootout -- joth or me for the exile today.

What do people say?  I think this only works if we have the absolutely and complete agreement of all players who are able to vote.

I'm confident we'd be making the right choice.
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