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Author Topic: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins!  (Read 130502 times)

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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #600 on: May 17, 2021, 01:44:55 pm »



Here we are with the absolutes that only scum can have. Why would we flip ash if Joth flips scum. It'd be a ballsy and unnecessary bus so I don't think we'd wager that chance until some investigative results indicated we should.

Quote
If I thought they would, I might consider embracing your 1v1...These 1v1s are basically always bad for town....I'm also not moving my vote.

So basically, if he thought this could work out to his advantage he'd take the bait. Also note the wishy washiness of the "almost" always statement. Instead of saying these are never good for town he's implying that maybe this one right here actually is.


I get what he's trying to say but how he says it seems telling to me. I don't see how anyone reads this as anything but scum. I'd like to see your interpretation of it, though.

I think you're completely misunderstanding this interaction. Joth was saying, "If I flip town, the town won't exile you." He was basically telling ash that he believes that if he accepted the one-on-one and Ash won, ash would find some way to weasel out of actually getting exiled, and given that he wouldn't be eligible to be exiled again until day 4 anyway, he'd have plenty of time to do it. In between we'd had all manner of night actions and things that would present a stronger case, or that scum!ash could spin as reasons not to follow through with town's promise to exile him if joth flipped town.

Well this interpretation is exactly what led me to consider that they might both be scum because it still reeks of knowing Ash's alignment. As town with ash coming in like this the arguments would appear more questioning than diminishing. Also, in the event they are both scum this comes off as a some Ericksonian hypnotism for everyone else.

I see this 1v1 as forcing us to choose at two forks. Fork 1: are either players likely scum? Fork 2: if so which one and why? if not who else is and why?

Call me lazy but I chose yes at Fork 1 and now maybe I am trying to logically rationalize an emotional decision in Fork 2.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #601 on: May 17, 2021, 03:23:48 pm »

I have to take issue with this idea that my not pointing out ash's mistake makes me scummy. I wasn't on during the period in question. Now that you point it out, I think it is quite strange that he posted an incorrect vc like that. No way to know if that was scummy or careless on his part. Why is it my responsibility more than anyone else's to point out his unannounced E-1?

PPE: 11

My initial thought was that you weren't on during the period in question, but then when you responded to me, you said you "didn't notice it". That, to me, implied that you'd seen the vote and just not noticed. Because if you hadn't been online, why wouldn't you have just said "I wasn't online"?

This seemed like kind of a nothing issue, so I didn't nail down the details until today. I did notice ash seeming not to know where I was on the joth issue, which seemed strange. But I figured he'd catch on. And I was probably reading that post after the correct vc had been posted. It wasn't on my radar at all that there was such a low number needed to exile. Should have been, but wasn't.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #602 on: May 17, 2021, 04:05:15 pm »


This ignores the E-1 elephant that's been standing in the room for some time now. Diverting from that is far scummier.
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I literally don’t understand what you’re saying here.

Can you tell me why there's been no hammer or intent to hammer if Joth is town? I see a sustained stalled E-1 as indicative of scum. Picking on the town who put him there is what I am calling scummy.

There's been no hammer or intent to hammer because it takes four to exile and there aren't four players who want to exile joth? Because he's town.

Boom! Solved it for ya.

That doesn’t make any sense to me
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #603 on: May 17, 2021, 04:06:44 pm »

Also, though, only half the players in the game can vote and one of them is Galz, who has been MIA. So it's basically 4 out of 6 needed to exile right now, really out of 5, since joth isn't going to self-vote. That would stall literally any wagon. It's NAI.

Would it stall a wagon on town? If we assume 2 scum then that's only 2 town they need to be on wagon.

This is what I’m thinking but having a hard time articulating
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #604 on: May 17, 2021, 04:10:07 pm »

There WCD goes dropping the occasional reason for me to scumread them.

Probably when WCD is town anyway.

Sigh...

I just can’t read her properly.

I know, right? It goes both ways. You and hyper are my original homies, but as opaque to me as when we started. :/
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #605 on: May 17, 2021, 04:14:38 pm »


Here we are with the absolutes that only scum can have.

...

Quote
Also note the wishy washiness of the "almost" always statement. Instead of saying these are never good for town he's implying that maybe this one right here actually is.

So I guess I'm scummy if I deal in absolutes, but I'm also scummy if I'm "wishy washy"? Huh?
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #606 on: May 17, 2021, 04:15:43 pm »



Here we are with the absolutes that only scum can have. Why would we flip ash if Joth flips scum. It'd be a ballsy and unnecessary bus so I don't think we'd wager that chance until some investigative results indicated we should.

Quote
If I thought they would, I might consider embracing your 1v1...These 1v1s are basically always bad for town....I'm also not moving my vote.

So basically, if he thought this could work out to his advantage he'd take the bait. Also note the wishy washiness of the "almost" always statement. Instead of saying these are never good for town he's implying that maybe this one right here actually is.


I get what he's trying to say but how he says it seems telling to me. I don't see how anyone reads this as anything but scum. I'd like to see your interpretation of it, though.

I think you're completely misunderstanding this interaction. Joth was saying, "If I flip town, the town won't exile you." He was basically telling ash that he believes that if he accepted the one-on-one and Ash won, ash would find some way to weasel out of actually getting exiled, and given that he wouldn't be eligible to be exiled again until day 4 anyway, he'd have plenty of time to do it. In between we'd had all manner of night actions and things that would present a stronger case, or that scum!ash could spin as reasons not to follow through with town's promise to exile him if joth flipped town.

yes, this!
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #607 on: May 17, 2021, 04:19:40 pm »

can everyone just vote ash and end this horrible day once and for all?
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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #608 on: May 17, 2021, 05:11:57 pm »


Here we are with the absolutes that only scum can have.

...

Quote
Also note the wishy washiness of the "almost" always statement. Instead of saying these are never good for town he's implying that maybe this one right here actually is.

So I guess I'm scummy if I deal in absolutes, but I'm also scummy if I'm "wishy washy"? Huh?

That's disingenuous to what I am saying. I'm saying that the way you are speaking implies hidden knowledge. In the one case you are certain there will be no retaliation if you are flipped. This makes sense if you flip scum. In the other case you could absolutely say that 1v1 is bad for town but here I see slight hedging suggesting that maybe in this case it wouldn't be as bad for town as you would like us to believe.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #609 on: May 17, 2021, 10:54:54 pm »

Vote Count 2.3:

Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
Joth (1): WCD

Not Voting (11): EFHW, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria, MiX, Eddie, chairs, hypercube, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus


With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 3.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.

Here's the vote count I used to make my vote count that everyone is saying left EFHW off on purpose.  No EFHW voting there.  I just quote the mod's post and delete the formatting.

There was even this post later that I saw to ensure the VC was right:

Vote Count 2.3:

Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
Joth(1): WCD

Not Voting (11): EFHW, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria, MiX, Eddie, chairs, hypercube, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus


With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 3.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.

VC 2.3 corrected. Don't do VCs at work kids...
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #610 on: May 17, 2021, 10:55:34 pm »

I need to do a proper reread and do some real scumhunting instead of letting ash distract me with his BS. Perhaps I'll have time today.

Still hoping to see this!

I should have time tomorrow.

FYI, you are at E-1.  Like a real one, because I'm already voting.

After the next vote count, I posted this.  I was the first player to point out the E-1.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #611 on: May 17, 2021, 10:56:31 pm »

I'd like to invite joth (and any other players who would like) to continue to try to make a case, any case, that I am not town.  It's super hilarious.  I get why many may not understand why, but it is.

I did make a point that everyone ignored, so I’ll say it again- putting joth to E-1 and saying it was E-2 was scummy. What’s your defense of that?

When did I say it was E-2?  You could provide a quote to help me there.  The only post I see is where I say it was E-1.

Also, I just posted the mod posts I quoted to make my VCs.  EFHW's vote wasn't there.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #612 on: May 17, 2021, 10:57:04 pm »

I am Galz's QT partner.  He's been just as inactive there as here.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #613 on: May 17, 2021, 10:57:42 pm »

He's basically given a real life reason for missing D1, said he'd be around today (but hasn't), and that's it.  Very few posts at all.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #614 on: May 17, 2021, 10:59:06 pm »

Galz, Dylan, or scola voting joth is the only way we're getting an exile.  It's up to any of you three at this point.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #615 on: May 17, 2021, 10:59:36 pm »

About 18 hours to go, right?
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #616 on: May 17, 2021, 11:10:22 pm »

OK, I'm switching my vote to see if this goes anywhere:

Vote: WCD

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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #617 on: May 18, 2021, 01:16:11 am »

Intent to hammer well before the deadline tomorrow unless people want to switch to Didds.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #618 on: May 18, 2021, 08:08:02 am »

OK, I'm switching my vote to see if this goes anywhere:

Vote: WCD

Scola, this is a bad idea. I know we have been at odds in the last few games, but this isn’t one of them. At the very least, odds would have us on the together this game so trust that even if you don’t trust me.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #619 on: May 18, 2021, 08:12:01 am »

OK, I'm switching my vote to see if this goes anywhere:

Vote: WCD

Scola, this is a bad idea. I know we have been at odds in the last few games, but this isn’t one of them. At the very least, odds would have us on the together this game so trust that even if you don’t trust me.

Okay, I’m willing to trust you.

Didds is town.

Glad we got that sorted early.

At least one productive thing happened today.

I am now happier with Joth’s death than Didds’.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #620 on: May 18, 2021, 09:20:40 am »

I'd like to invite joth (and any other players who would like) to continue to try to make a case, any case, that I am not town.  It's super hilarious.  I get why many may not understand why, but it is.

I did make a point that everyone ignored, so I’ll say it again- putting joth to E-1 and saying it was E-2 was scummy. What’s your defense of that?

When did I say it was E-2?  You could provide a quote to help me there.  The only post I see is where I say it was E-1.

Also, I just posted the mod posts I quoted to make my VCs.  EFHW's vote wasn't there.

You are splitting hairs. Putting joth at E-1 and not announcing that you were doing that is scummy. Posting an outdated vote count before your own vote clearly implies the belief that you were putting him to E-2. You didn't say "that's E-2" but the fact that you didn't say "that's E-1" is just as bad.

And this, by the way, is exactly the kind of bad faith argument you've been making against joth all day. You know full well what I meant, you chose to interpret my accusation overly literally in an attempt to make me look bad.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #621 on: May 18, 2021, 09:41:08 am »

I doubt any scum would post an outdated count as a nefarious plan.

Does that mean Ash it Town? No. But I doubt we can pull that much alignment out of that play.

Maybe that’s just me, though.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #622 on: May 18, 2021, 09:48:05 am »

I'd like to invite joth (and any other players who would like) to continue to try to make a case, any case, that I am not town.  It's super hilarious.  I get why many may not understand why, but it is.

I did make a point that everyone ignored, so I’ll say it again- putting joth to E-1 and saying it was E-2 was scummy. What’s your defense of that?

When did I say it was E-2?  You could provide a quote to help me there.  The only post I see is where I say it was E-1.

Also, I just posted the mod posts I quoted to make my VCs.  EFHW's vote wasn't there.

You are splitting hairs. Putting joth at E-1 and not announcing that you were doing that is scummy. Posting an outdated vote count before your own vote clearly implies the belief that you were putting him to E-2. You didn't say "that's E-2" but the fact that you didn't say "that's E-1" is just as bad.

And this, by the way, is exactly the kind of bad faith argument you've been making against joth all day. You know full well what I meant, you chose to interpret my accusation overly literally in an attempt to make me look bad.

I didn't consciously think about what E my vote was, just that it wasn't the hammer, and that in itself would be out of character for me.  I definitely didn't know it was E-1 or E-2, nor did I particularly care.  Is that the answer you wanted to hear?  I think it hurts your case even more.

Does me making a "bad faith argument" have any impact on my alignment?  I disagree with your characterization, but I think the question is a fair one for you to ask yourself.
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #623 on: May 18, 2021, 09:49:17 am »

Also, per Glooble, every vote ever cast by anyone ever is an unspoken "that's E-X!" announcement.  10 to Exile and first voter?

That's E-9 everyone!
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Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #624 on: May 18, 2021, 09:50:37 am »

Okay, maybe that was a little childish.  Just some innocent fun though.  Sorry.
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