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Author Topic: Just Some Random Cards: #56 - Crossroads Demon  (Read 9688 times)

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segura

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #52 - Prospector
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2020, 03:31:03 am »
0

This matters mainly because Prospector costs 2. A draw engine in which only the village and not the terminal can draw into further terminals does not run very well.
I suggest something like skipping Green. It might be too good and push the card into Oracle territory but the current version is too weak.
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alion8me

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #51 - Tiddlywinks
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2020, 02:49:13 pm »
+2

#52 - Prospector

Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
...

This should set aside and then discard at the end - this makes it so that infinite loops can't happen (especially with a cost-reduced Patron, which would give you infinite coffers).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #51 - Tiddlywinks
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2020, 05:30:54 pm »
+1

#52 - Prospector

Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
...

This should set aside and then discard at the end - this makes it so that infinite loops can't happen (especially with a cost-reduced Patron, which would give you infinite coffers).

The infinite coffers wouldn't be relevant, because you'd never be able to finish resolving the card. If the only card in your deck/draw pile costs and you play this, you're just stuck discarding forever (until someone starves to death).
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #51 - Tiddlywinks
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2020, 01:29:36 am »
0

#52 - Prospector

Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
...

This should set aside and then discard at the end - this makes it so that infinite loops can't happen (especially with a cost-reduced Patron, which would give you infinite coffers).

Good point. I'll rework it to avoid that. Thanks.

Rush_Clasic

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #52 - Prospector
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2020, 01:53:35 am »
+1

#53 - Chateau

Chateau - $5
Action
+2 Actions
Trash a card from your hand. Reveal cards from your deck until revealing one that costs more than the trashed card. Put that card in your hand and discard the rest.

Wanna live ritzy? Ya gotta work your way up. This idea started out as a Hunting Party variant that trashed. I turned it into a Village because drawing, then trashing, then hunting felt too busy. I know a lot of trashers work that way, but something like Apprentice or Recruiter just gives you a bulk payout rather than another specific task. Anyway, it's probably not a big deal, but I landed on actions and didn't really feel like changing it. I wanted it to cost $5 as an extra deterent to buy it early, since seems like a potentially rough opener, but I could be talked down to $4 if people felt it was too weak. Considering it's non-terminal trashing on a Village, I think it's probably good at $5.

Thanks to everyone leaving helpful comments. Between not designing Dominion much recently and have designed Magic for decades, I have a lot of habits that don't translate well, and your input really helps.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 01:21:51 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #53 - Chateau
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2020, 02:15:43 am »
0

Looks good. Comparing it to Hideout, this is just slightly stronger, but $5 cost is probably fine IMO.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 02:17:07 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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segura

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #53 - Chateau
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2020, 05:06:24 am »
0

Looks similar in strength to Junk Dealer. Village is slightly worse than Peddler, trashing before drawing is slightly worse, digging for something more expensive is better than drawing.
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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #52 - Prospector
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2020, 11:16:32 am »
+1

#53 - Chateau

Chateau - $5
Action
+2 Actions
Trash a card from your hand. Reveal cards from your deck until revealing one that costs more in $ than the trashed card. Put that card in your hand and discard the rest.

Wanna live ritzy? Ya gotta work your way up. This idea started out as a Hunting Party variant that trashed. I turned it into a Village because drawing, then trashing, then hunting felt too busy. I know a lot of trashers work that way, but something like Apprentice or Recruiter just gives you a bulk payout rather than another specific task. Anyway, it's probably not a big deal, but I landed on actions and didn't really feel like changing it. I wanted it to cost $5 as an extra deterent to buy it early, since seems like a potentially rough opener, but I could be talked down to $4 if people felt it was too weak. Considering it's non-terminal trashing on a Village, I think it's probably good at $5.

Thanks to everyone leaving helpful comments. Between not designing Dominion much recently and have designed Magic for decades, I have a lot of habits that don't translate well, and your input really helps.

I don't see what having "in $" gets you. That seems like a needless complication.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #52 - Prospector
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2020, 01:21:18 pm »
0

I don't see what having "in $" gets you. That seems like a needless complication.

I viewed it as a clarification to make things like debt less confusing, but I guess my wording does mean that trashing a Silver won't allow you to get an Alchemist. I guess the rules already handle this well enough, so I can probably just remove that bit.

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #53 - Chateau
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2020, 08:35:36 pm »
+2

#54 - Dreams

Dreams are a new landscape card. You can choose one to use much like you would a Project, Way, Event, etc. They all have abilities that trigger during each player's Night phase, rewarding that player for accomplishing some goal during their turn.

Dream of Flying
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have 3 or more cards in hand: Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, put it into your hand.

Dream of Being Lost
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have any unused actions: You may put an Action card from your discard pile on top of your deck.

Dream of Wealth
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have any unused buys: +1 Coffers.

Dream of Death's Ferryman
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have 2 or more Silvers in play: You may gain a Silver.



I was mulling around with the idea of cards that want you to achieve some mini-goal within the game. I like how the different landscape cards make you care about deck construction in different ways. I went for the simplest idea: just reward players for doing something specific. They wanted to work as close to the end of turn as possible, but not necessarily mess with clean-up. Thankfully, we have this neat Night phase that's been around for a few years. That's where the idea originated for theming these cards as Dreams: what you do during the day impacts how you dream at night. They aren't the most innovative ideas, but I like the overall feel of them. I'd say they're closest to Landmarks, just without the VP focus. (Another reason I avoided making VP related Dreams.) I went for well-established recurring dreams and tried to make something sensible out of each. If people like them, I might try making the whole deck.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 01:01:24 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2020, 09:17:34 am »
+1

Dreams are a very cool idea.
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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2020, 10:34:20 am »
0

Are dreams like Ways in that you can always use them? Or are they like Projects, where you have to buy them once in order to use them?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2020, 11:03:03 am »
0

Yeah it's unclear when you actually choose a Dream... is it something you can just do at any time during your Night phase, but only one per Night phase?
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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2020, 12:14:55 pm »
+1

I think they're very clearly things that you don't have to buy. You can use them once at the time they trigger. When they trigger is super clear on each one. This all seems pretty obvious.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2020, 01:00:48 pm »
0

Dreams are a very cool idea.

Thanks! I think so too!

Are dreams like Ways in that you can always use them? Or are they like Projects, where you have to buy them once in order to use them?

They aren't purchasable. Rather, they trigger during your night phase if you've accomplished the task they required of you. I might change them all to trigger at the end of your night phase rather than hopping around, and I might make them all optional since remembering things not in your deck can be a headache at times. They're closest to Landscapes in that you choose a Dream to play with and they trigger for every player on a turn where the appropriate task was completed.

Yeah it's unclear when you actually choose a Dream... is it something you can just do at any time during your Night phase, but only one per Night phase?

You choose a Dream at the beginning of the game, like Events, Ways, etc. You get to use the dream during your night phase (triggering at the time dictated on the card) if you've accomplished the appropriate task.

GendoIkari

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2020, 01:19:22 pm »
0


You choose a Dream at the beginning of the game, like Events, Ways, etc. You get to use the dream during your night phase (triggering at the time dictated on the card) if you've accomplished the appropriate task.

Ah I see. Then you just need to include clarifying rules about how that process works (turn order, etc).

*Edit* Oh wait! I still wasn't understanding it before but I think I am now. When you said "you choose a Dream", I thought of that like "each player chooses a Dream". But no, you just mean that a Dream might be included in the game just like any other Landscape might be included in the game.

The problem with the wording was that the phrase "choose to use a Way" has 2 different meanings... it could mean choosing a Way to include in your game while setting up; or it could mean choosing to play an action card with a Way instead of playing it normally. I misunderstood it to mean you were using the second definition, when it now seems clear that you meant the first.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 01:23:32 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2020, 01:28:44 pm »
+1

Now that they all trigger at the end of Night phase, it seems like it would be more natural to just have them trigger at the start of cleanup phase instead. This is worse for the theme of them being Dreams; but mechanically it's much simpler; especially since Night phase normally only exists in games with Night cards.
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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2020, 02:10:28 pm »
0

Now that they all trigger at the end of Night phase, it seems like it would be more natural to just have them trigger at the start of cleanup phase instead. This is worse for the theme of them being Dreams; but mechanically it's much simpler; especially since Night phase normally only exists in games with Night cards.

I strongly agree with this.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2020, 02:30:08 pm »
+1

Oh wait! I still wasn't understanding it before but I think I am now. When you said "you choose a Dream", I thought of that like "each player chooses a Dream". But no, you just mean that a Dream might be included in the game just like any other Landscape might be included in the game.

Exactly, that's what I was trying to say... sloppily.

The problem with the wording was that the phrase "choose to use a Way" has 2 different meanings... it could mean choosing a Way to include in your game while setting up; or it could mean choosing to play an action card with a Way instead of playing it normally. I misunderstood it to mean you were using the second definition, when it now seems clear that you meant the first.

Ya, looking back, Way was the wrong example, considering the way they work. ;)

Now that they all trigger at the end of Night phase, it seems like it would be more natural to just have them trigger at the start of cleanup phase instead. This is worse for the theme of them being Dreams; but mechanically it's much simpler; especially since Night phase normally only exists in games with Night cards.

I strongly agree with this.

Do I have to?  :'(

When I was looking back to clarify how they work, I realized that they didn't need to switch between beginning of the Night phase and the end. Only one of them wanted to work at the end, but they easily all could. Moving the triggered event to the clean-up phase makes sense, but I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't want to. It loses all of its thematic appeal. Ideally, these would be in an expansion with Night cards. And triggering at the end of your night phase gives a clear separation between the buying of cards and the discarding of cards.

Please don't make me move it; the whole theme falls apart!

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2020, 03:27:00 pm »
+1

I would suggest a possible setup rule that only allows them to be included in a game with at least 1 Night card. This works thematically, and plays fine if it is part of a fan expansion that includes Night cards.
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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2020, 04:06:03 pm »
0

I would suggest a possible setup rule that only allows them to be included in a game with at least 1 Night card. This works thematically, and plays fine if it is part of a fan expansion that includes Night cards.

I don't think this is necessary. You can just say that you have a Night phase whenever a Dream is out.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2020, 04:13:47 pm »
0

I would suggest a possible setup rule that only allows them to be included in a game with at least 1 Night card. This works thematically, and plays fine if it is part of a fan expansion that includes Night cards.

I don't think this is necessary. You can just say that you have a Night phase whenever a Dream is out.

Having such a rule would work, but it also makes it a bit weirder for the effects to happen during Night Phase instead of cleanup then. Requiring a Night card helps hold the concept and theme together; it's no longer just randomly a Night Phase thing, but something designed to work along side Night cards. Also he could have Dreams that reference Night cards specifically.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #54 - Dreams
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2020, 01:01:58 pm »
0

#55 - Deed

Deed - $3
Treasure - Victory
$1
1 VP
-----
Rather than pay this card's cost, you may buy it by trashing a Copper and an Estate from your hand.

Property rights are a big deal, especially in old timey kingdoms. I've done cards like this before. I like the idea of alternative costs in general, but there's not a lot of ways I've found to do them in Dominion. A lot of what you want can be accomplished through cost reduction. This could, too, but I feels simple enough and thematic enough to work the way I've written. Not the most exciting card, but worth trying out.

segura

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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #55 - Deed
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2020, 02:28:19 pm »
0

This does not work due to playtesting experience with Hovel:

Quote
Hovel is the only one that changed. Originally it was an action you could trash by discarding your hand. It turned out that trashing it turn 1-2 usually seemed like the correct play, even if you drew it with four Coppers. So that was no good.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4318.0

Also, even without this playtesting experience Bonfire would be a good benchmark for how good trashing 2 Estates in the opening would be.
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Re: Just Some Random Cards: #55 - Deed
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2020, 08:15:52 pm »
0

This does not work due to playtesting experience with Hovel:

Quote
Hovel is the only one that changed. Originally it was an action you could trash by discarding your hand. It turned out that trashing it turn 1-2 usually seemed like the correct play, even if you drew it with four Coppers. So that was no good.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4318.0

Also, even without this playtesting experience Bonfire would be a good benchmark for how good trashing 2 Estates in the opening would be.

I just read the secret history of Dark Ages yesterday. Forget to heed that lesson. I wanted to talk about how this is different and as a kingdom card it has more versatility, but I think overall the problem is pretty much the same. Which leads me to this idea instead:

Deed - $3
Treasure - Victory
$1
1 VP
-----
While buying this, you may discard 1 Estate. If you do, this costs $2 less.
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