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faust

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White and PoC cards
« on: July 10, 2020, 03:16:28 am »
+5

This thread has been around for while, and I thought it would be interesting to look at representation in Dominion through a different lens. I'm going to keep the format of the male and female card list.

[EDIT 1: Moved Harem to both, Margrave, Spice Merchant and Peddler to PoC, Summon and Miser to Ambiguous.]

BASE
White: Harbinger, Merchant, Vassal, Bureaucrat, Militia, Moneylender, Poacher, Smithy, Bandit, Festival, Market, Sentry, Witch, Artisan
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Village, Laboratory, Library, Mine

INTRIGUE
White: Lurker, Pawn, Masquerade, Shanty Town, Steward, Swindler, Wishing Well, Baron, Diplomat, Coutrier, Duke, Minion, Replace, Trading Post, Nobles
Person of color:
Both: Harem
Unknown/Ambiguous: Conspirator, Ironworks, Torturer, Upgrade

SEASIDE
White: Fishing Village, Smugglers, Navigator, Salvager, Sea Hag, Bazaar, Explorer, Tactician
Person of color: Native Village, Ambassador, Lookout
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Embargo, Lighthouse, Pearl Diver, Cutpurse, Merchant Ship, Wharf

ALCHEMY
White: Transmute, Herbalist, Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Alchemist, Golem, Apprentice, Possession
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Familiar

PROSPERITY
White: Bishop, Counting House, Mint, Mountebank, Rabble, Venture, Goons, Bank, Forge
Person of color:
Both: Grand Market, Peddler
Unknown/Ambiguous: Trade Route, Workers' Village, King's Court

CORNUCOPIA
White: Fortune Teller, Menagerie, Farming Village, Horse Traders, Young Witch, Jester, Fairgrounds, Followers, Princess
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Tournament, Harvest, Hunting Party

HINTERLANDS
White: Duchess, Oracle, Scheme, Jack of all Trades, Noble Brigand, Trader, Cartographer, Stables
Person of color: Nomad Camp, Haggler, Mandarin, Margrave, Spice Merchant
Both: Embassy
Unknown/Ambiguous: Develop, Silk Road

DARK AGES
White: Beggar, Forager, Hermit, Market Square, Sage, Urchin, Armory, Ironmonger, Marauder, Scavenger, Wandering Minstrel, Band of Misfits, Bandit Camp, Count, Graverobber, Junk Dealer, Mystic, Pillage, Rogue, Hunting Grounds, Dame Anna, Dame Josephine, Dmae Natalie, Dame Sylvia, Sir Destry, Sir Martin, Sir Michael, Madman, Mercenary
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Squire, Vagrant, Death Cart, Procession, Cultist, Dame Molly, Sir Bailey, Sir Vander, Survivors

GUILDS
White: Cnadlestick Maker, Sonemason, Doctor, Advisor, Plaza, Taxman, Herald, Baker, Butcher, Merchant Guild, Soothsayer
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Journeyman

ADVENTURES
White: Page (and thier line), Peasant (and their line), Ratcatcher, Caravan Guard, Guide, Ranger, Transmogrify, Artificer, Giant, Royal Carriage, Storyteller, Swamp Hag, Wine Merchant, Alms, Borrow, Save, Scouting Party, Travelling Fair, Bonfire, Plan, Pilgrimage, Ball, Trade, Lost Arts, Training
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Raze, Duplicate, Messenger, Bridge Troll, Distant Lands, Hireling, Quest, Ferry, Mission, Raid, Pathfinding, Miser

EMPIRES
White: Engineer, Overlord, Royal Blacksmith, Encampment, Patrician, Chariot Race, Enchantress, Farmers' Market, Gladiator, Fortune, Sacrifice, Groundskeeper, Legionary, Triumph, Annex, Donate, Advance, Delve, Tax, Banquet, Salt the Earth, Wedding, Windfall, Conquest, Dominate, Basilica, Baths, Battlefield, Triumphal Arch
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Settlers, Bustling Village, Rocks, Bandit Fort, Keep, Museum

NOCTURNE
White: Druid, Pixie, Changeling, Fool, Leprechaun, Night Watchman, Bard, Blessed Village, Conclave, Devil's Workshop, Exorcist, Necromancer, Cobbler, Pooka, Tragic Hero, Vampire, Raider, Delusion, Fear, Greed, Haunting, Locusts, Misery
Person of color: Werewolf
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Guardian, Tracker, Shepherd, Skulk, Tormentor, War

RENAISSANCE
White: Border Guard, Lackeys, Acting Troupe, Experiment, Improve, Flag Bearer, Inventor, Patron, Priest, Research, Silk Merchant, Old Witch, Recruiter, Scholar, Seer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer, Key, Lantern, Pageant, Capitalism, Road Network
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Hideout, Villain, Sinister Plot, Barracks

MENAGERIE
White: Goatherd, Scrap, Bounty Hunter, Cardinal, Groom, Barge, Falconer, Livery, Mastermind, Wayfarer, Animal Fair, Delay, Desperation, Pursue, Ride, Toil, March, Transport, Bargain, Invest, Demand, Reap, Alliance, Populate
Person of color: Camel Train, Commerce
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Sleigh, Cavalry, Coven, Gatekeeper, Fisherman, Gamble, Seize the Day

PROMO
White: Dismantle, Envoy, Governor, Captain, Prince
Person of color:
Both:
Unknown/Ambiguous: Black Market, Summon
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 04:47:04 am by faust »
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LastFootnote

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2020, 03:22:26 am »
+1

Suggestion: instead of organizing this by expansion, organize it by artist.
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stechafle

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2020, 07:45:58 am »
+1

I don't think Miser is a PoC.

The broader point is important. The art does not reflect the diversity of the modern audience.
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D782802859

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2020, 08:48:07 am »
0

Suggestion: instead of organizing this by expansion, organize it by artist.

Some expansions should logically have more PoC than others; I.E. indigenous peoples in Seaside and Hinterlands.
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2020, 08:54:37 am »
0

Suggestion: instead of organizing this by expansion, organize it by artist.

Some expansions should logically have more PoC than others; I.E. indigenous peoples in Seaside and Hinterlands.
honestly, like, pivot tables. do both.
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pacovf

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2020, 09:06:17 am »
+1

This is quite a bit more open to interpretation than male/female. I am definitely not going through all card art to check, but off the top of my head, Margrave is clearly Asian to me, Harem has both white and PoC, Spice Merchant is at least as ambiguous as Lookout (but you've said White for the first, PoC for the second). I guess you did this kind of quickly as a springboard for discussion. I doubt that even after a careful second pass, the conclusion will change much.
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2020, 03:38:23 pm »
+6

There's quite a lot unknown/ambiguous and POC that you have marked as white, IMO (for one, the girl on Summon is pretty clearly not white). Not to mention ones which aren't even human like the Changeling, Cobbler, Pooka, and Vampire.
Also, you have to consider the setting which is (mostly) European middle ages.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 03:42:28 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2020, 06:11:04 pm »
0

Some of these were mentioned in another thread. I remember Peddler, she is East Asian.

faust

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2020, 04:57:36 am »
+1

I made some edits based on the suggestions.

There's quite a lot unknown/ambiguous and POC that you have marked as white, IMO (for one, the girl on Summon is pretty clearly not white). Not to mention ones which aren't even human like the Changeling, Cobbler, Pooka, and Vampire.
Also, you have to consider the setting which is (mostly) European middle ages.
Cobbler has a human in it. Changeling poses as a human child and Vampire used to be a human, so I think those are fair (or otherwise Werewolf would also need to be dropped). Pooka and Leprechaun could arguably be excluded, but they are still have white characteristics I think.

The setting is all over the place. It does not pretend to strive for historical accuracy, and it's unclear to me why this should be the one point where it's important to have an accurate representation. Not to mention that noone really knows what would be accurate, there were definitely people of color living in Europe during the Middle Ages, and Empires is based on the Roman Empire, which included a wide variety of ethnicities, but still Empires doesn't have a single clearly distingiushable person of color.
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2020, 08:52:12 am »
0

The setting is all over the place. It does not pretend to strive for historical accuracy, and it's unclear to me why this should be the one point where it's important to have an accurate representation.

It's not necessarily important to have accurate representation, but when you have a fantasy setting based on a historical period in a certain region, it just naturally tends to happen that the demographics will largely represent whatever was the creators' idea of what it actually was like in that real setting, and I think this is fine. I think the problem is when people choose to exclusively consume western fantasy based on medieval Europe.
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Donald X.

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2020, 01:12:54 pm »
+6

The setting does pretend to strive for historical accuracy, when it isn't fantasy; it is just constantly thwarted by artists showing castles with tons of brightly lit windows, or modern gardening outfits, or fields of corn though I said "no New World crops" as if that would be clear.

The artist notes usually make no mention of race. Four expansions have themes that push race and so some cards specify. Empires is Roman and a lot of cards specify Romans, a few Gauls or Celts (e.g. Dominate); Nocturne has a Celtic mythology theme, so Druid and Exorcist are specified Celtic; Renaissance has some specific Italian things, e.g. Patron says to show Lorenzo de' Medici, Priest says Roman Catholic, Recruiter says condottieri (Italian mercenaries); Hinterlands specifically has non-European places, so the titles imply race for a few cards - Mandarin, Nomad Camp - though the artist notes don't specify. And then, a few cards illustrate specific real-life people connected to Dominion somehow, and so are that race - 10 people I know for the Knights, Dale Yu on Navigator, Valerie Putman on Harem, Wei-Hwa Huang on Pearl Diver, RTT on Captain. Beyond that I think there's only one card where I specified race: for Diplomat, I specified Spanish, trying to think of what would be most plausible for a female medieval diplomat.

That was a bunch really but still for most cards there is no specification, it's just whatever the artist drew.

I've floated the idea of doing a medieval Japan expansion. And someone immediately said, oh but you have to get a Japanese person to make sure that everything is respectful. And then other people chimed in to say, yes absolutely, so important. I can't stop the artist from turning in the art for Mandarin though. The only way to make sure there's no horrendously offensive Japanese stuff is to not do Japan. I've also floated the idea of a Vikings expansion; there is no such issue there. That's the sad way of the world. Which hasn't just ruled out Japan, but you know. Last time out I went with animals; maximally inoffensive. No-one minds which breed of dog it is.
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2020, 01:23:12 pm »
+1

The setting is all over the place. It does not pretend to strive for historical accuracy, and it's unclear to me why this should be the one point where it's important to have an accurate representation. Not to mention that noone really knows what would be accurate, there were definitely people of color living in Europe during the Middle Ages, and Empires is based on the Roman Empire, which included a wide variety of ethnicities, but still Empires doesn't have a single clearly distingiushable person of color.

Thank you for actually posting a statement. I thought that just dropping the stats in the OP was passive-aggressive and pretty cowardly. "Here's some data I compiled for no reason. I'll just leave it here for others to talk about."

I can see two reasonable opposing arguments here. One is Awaclus's "It's more or less representative of the general location in which these games sort-of took place during that time period." The other is your "Man it's already a fantasy game, let's have diversity for today's modern audience." Personally I'm the side of more diversity. But if you want that to happen, the people you should be thinking about are Jay Tummelson (Rio Grande Games) and the artists. I'm guessing that so far the artists have been given no direction about what race the characters in the art should be. (EDIT: I wrote this up before Donald X. posted, and he's mostly confirmed this.) As we know they were given no direction on gender and as a result they overwhelming drew male characters (even the female artists!). So first things first, I would do some research to figure out which artists are already doing a good job on this front. Second, I would figure out how many of the artists are themselves people of color. Then depending on your findings, I would petition Jay to contract with more artists of color (unless somehow the group of artists is already diverse) and to let all the artists know that even though it's a game sort-of set in medieval Europe, they should feel free to include plenty of non-white characters in their art.
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2020, 01:45:22 pm »
0

I made some edits based on the suggestions.
There's quite a lot unknown/ambiguous and POC that you have marked as white, IMO (for one, the girl on Summon is pretty clearly not white). Not to mention ones which aren't even human like the Changeling, Cobbler, Pooka, and Vampire.
Also, you have to consider the setting which is (mostly) European middle ages.
Cobbler has a human in it.
I never noticed the sleeping guy in that picture before.

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2020, 06:32:47 pm »
0

Even actual Medieval and Renaissance Art depicted people of colour: https://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2020, 11:07:33 pm »
0

I can see two reasonable opposing arguments here. One is Awaclus's "It's more or less representative of the general location in which these games sort-of took place during that time period." The other is your "Man it's already a fantasy game, let's have diversity for today's modern audience."

I wouldn't necessarily say that my argument is opposing to faust's argument — unless faust's argument is that literally every fantasy world needs to have diversity, which I'm sure it is not. I think it is totally fair to say that since it's a fictional setting and we're supposed to accept that curses that actually work are such a common occurrence that they're included on every board, by extension we could also accept that half the population is black.

But there are different kinds of fantasy settings, and Dominion's setting is really just (a somewhat inaccurate depiction of) the real world except let's pretend magic works and some mythological creatures exist. It's fine for it to be that way. There are other works that mostly or exclusively depict people of non-Caucasian ethnicities, and there are works that are set in fictional realms that have so little connection to Earth that it wouldn't even make sense to describe their characters in the terminology of our races even if there were visual similarities — there are humans with dark skin in LOTR but they're not of African origin. And there are works with racial diversity. All of it is fine, I think creators can do whatever they want. It's just that if you exclusively choose to consume the content set in Europe, based on European culture, depicting white people, then perhaps Dominion isn't the racist of the equation.
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segura

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2020, 03:26:38 am »
0

Let us keep in mind the problem that DXV pointed out: depecting other cultures runs into the issue of lack of knowledge. In other words, do you prefer to be portrayed wrongly or not at all?

Tolkien has been mentioned and while I like his work, he was pretty reactionary and his work is undeniable utterly racist: dwarves are Jews, the non-White humans in the Third Age are only shown as followers of Sauron.
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faust

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2020, 04:01:19 am »
0

Let us keep in mind the problem that DXV pointed out: depecting other cultures runs into the issue of lack of knowledge. In other words, do you prefer to be portrayed wrongly or not at all?

Tolkien has been mentioned and while I like his work, he was pretty reactionary and his work is undeniable utterly racist: dwarves are Jews, the non-White humans in the Third Age are only shown as followers of Sauron.
Well, this is not really about cultures all that much. Werewolf is a good example of how to do this without needing to consider cultural background.

And where you want to include cultural clues, it seems like the problem can be resolved by hiring artists from the appropriate background.
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faust

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2020, 04:29:18 am »
0

The setting is all over the place. It does not pretend to strive for historical accuracy, and it's unclear to me why this should be the one point where it's important to have an accurate representation. Not to mention that noone really knows what would be accurate, there were definitely people of color living in Europe during the Middle Ages, and Empires is based on the Roman Empire, which included a wide variety of ethnicities, but still Empires doesn't have a single clearly distingiushable person of color.

Thank you for actually posting a statement. I thought that just dropping the stats in the OP was passive-aggressive and pretty cowardly. "Here's some data I compiled for no reason. I'll just leave it here for others to talk about."

I can see two reasonable opposing arguments here. One is Awaclus's "It's more or less representative of the general location in which these games sort-of took place during that time period." The other is your "Man it's already a fantasy game, let's have diversity for today's modern audience." Personally I'm the side of more diversity. But if you want that to happen, the people you should be thinking about are Jay Tummelson (Rio Grande Games) and the artists. I'm guessing that so far the artists have been given no direction about what race the characters in the art should be. (EDIT: I wrote this up before Donald X. posted, and he's mostly confirmed this.) As we know they were given no direction on gender and as a result they overwhelming drew male characters (even the female artists!). So first things first, I would do some research to figure out which artists are already doing a good job on this front. Second, I would figure out how many of the artists are themselves people of color. Then depending on your findings, I would petition Jay to contract with more artists of color (unless somehow the group of artists is already diverse) and to let all the artists know that even though it's a game sort-of set in medieval Europe, they should feel free to include plenty of non-white characters in their art.
This would certainly be a good way to go about this, and I might add a breakdown by artist in the future, when I have the time. I don't think I have the capacities to research which of the artists are PoC though.
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2020, 06:29:05 am »
+3

Not that anyone has a reason to care what I think, but I suspect that this entire thing is just a really bad idea. I mean, it's not impossible that part of getting to a color blind world is making analyses about skin color, but it doesn't seem very plausible. It seems more likely that threads and discussions of this kind are a net negative, both by making everyone who engages think more about race rather than less, and by alienating people who are less inclined to use mental energy on questions of diversity.

If there are severe injustices that are actively hurting people, one has to talk about them to fix them. But this doesn't seem to qualify.
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faust

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2020, 06:46:33 am »
+1

Not that anyone has a reason to care what I think, but I suspect that this entire thing is just a really bad idea. I mean, it's not impossible that part of getting to a color blind world is making analyses about skin color, but it doesn't seem very plausible. It seems more likely that threads and discussions of this kind are a net negative, both by making everyone who engages think more about race rather than less, and by alienating people who are less inclined to use mental energy on questions of diversity.

If there are severe injustices that are actively hurting people, one has to talk about them to fix them. But this doesn't seem to qualify.
I think this part of the discussion should probably go to RSP, but - the freedom to not think about race is very much a white privilege.
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segura

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2020, 07:52:42 am »
0

Let us keep in mind the problem that DXV pointed out: depecting other cultures runs into the issue of lack of knowledge. In other words, do you prefer to be portrayed wrongly or not at all?

Tolkien has been mentioned and while I like his work, he was pretty reactionary and his work is undeniable utterly racist: dwarves are Jews, the non-White humans in the Third Age are only shown as followers of Sauron.
Well, this is not really about cultures all that much. Werewolf is a good example of how to do this without needing to consider cultural background.

And where you want to include cultural clues, it seems like the problem can be resolved by hiring artists from the appropriate background.
I have serious doubts that a small publisher of boardgames like RGG has the market power to be able to use quotas when hiring artists or whatever. It would be great if they did care about that but I cannot blame any publisher for having a zillion to-dos with higher priority.

And that better / less distorted representation of minorities and underprivileged people does not automatically empower them should be a no-brainer for anybody who has ever heard names like Obama or Merkel (there are many other examples).
So yeah, be all for the trivial stuff like whether more dudes and dudettes on the art of Dominion cards are non-white. As long as you do not ignore the real power issues.

You can e.g. imagine a company that runs private prisons (thus making a profit from neoslavery) while using inclusivity messages in its marketing.

This is all probably too RSP-y but this very fact that it is illustrates the problem: being for more equals representation costs nothing ( which is why every dimwit influencer posts BLM on their social media accounts) and shocks nobody whereas actually fighting to achieve real power change does.
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faust

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2020, 08:23:50 am »
0

Let us keep in mind the problem that DXV pointed out: depecting other cultures runs into the issue of lack of knowledge. In other words, do you prefer to be portrayed wrongly or not at all?

Tolkien has been mentioned and while I like his work, he was pretty reactionary and his work is undeniable utterly racist: dwarves are Jews, the non-White humans in the Third Age are only shown as followers of Sauron.
Well, this is not really about cultures all that much. Werewolf is a good example of how to do this without needing to consider cultural background.

And where you want to include cultural clues, it seems like the problem can be resolved by hiring artists from the appropriate background.
I have serious doubts that a small publisher of boardgames like RGG has the market power to be able to use quotas when hiring artists or whatever. It would be great if they did care about that but I cannot blame any publisher for having a zillion to-dos with higher priority.

And that better / less distorted representation of minorities and underprivileged people does not automatically empower them should be a no-brainer for anybody who has ever heard names like Obama or Merkel (there are many other examples).
So yeah, be all for the trivial stuff like whether more dudes and dudettes on the art of Dominion cards are non-white. As long as you do not ignore the real power issues.

You can e.g. imagine a company that runs private prisons (thus making a profit from neoslavery) while using inclusivity messages in its marketing.

This is all probably too RSP-y but this very fact that it is illustrates the problem: being for more equals representation costs nothing ( which is why every dimwit influencer posts BLM on their social media accounts) and shocks nobody whereas actually fighting to achieve real power change does.
I don't really know enough about the industry to judge how hard it would be to contract more people of color for illustrations. Might be easy, might not be.

This is a Dominion forum, so I fail to see the point of addressing private prisons. If you have more important Dominion-related issues that you think we should discuss then I'm all ears, there totally might be.
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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2020, 08:46:35 am »
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Let us keep in mind the problem that DXV pointed out: depecting other cultures runs into the issue of lack of knowledge. In other words, do you prefer to be portrayed wrongly or not at all?

Tolkien has been mentioned and while I like his work, he was pretty reactionary and his work is undeniable utterly racist: dwarves are Jews, the non-White humans in the Third Age are only shown as followers of Sauron.
Well, this is not really about cultures all that much. Werewolf is a good example of how to do this without needing to consider cultural background.

And where you want to include cultural clues, it seems like the problem can be resolved by hiring artists from the appropriate background.
I have serious doubts that a small publisher of boardgames like RGG has the market power to be able to use quotas when hiring artists or whatever. It would be great if they did care about that but I cannot blame any publisher for having a zillion to-dos with higher priority.

And that better / less distorted representation of minorities and underprivileged people does not automatically empower them should be a no-brainer for anybody who has ever heard names like Obama or Merkel (there are many other examples).
So yeah, be all for the trivial stuff like whether more dudes and dudettes on the art of Dominion cards are non-white. As long as you do not ignore the real power issues.

You can e.g. imagine a company that runs private prisons (thus making a profit from neoslavery) while using inclusivity messages in its marketing.

This is all probably too RSP-y but this very fact that it is illustrates the problem: being for more equals representation costs nothing ( which is why every dimwit influencer posts BLM on their social media accounts) and shocks nobody whereas actually fighting to achieve real power change does.
I don't really know enough about the industry to judge how hard it would be to contract more people of color for illustrations. Might be easy, might not be.

This is a Dominion forum, so I fail to see the point of addressing private prisons. If you have more important Dominion-related issues that you think we should discuss then I'm all ears, there totally might be.
Isn’t it obvious? Neoslavery implies that less black folks work, and especially less in skilled jobs. So the ratio of black folks among artists decreases and RGG hires few black folks to design game art, even if the the folks at RGG are colour blind.
There are two solutions. First, what you seem to suggest, an overrepresentation of black artists via quotas or whatever.
Second, what I suggest: address the root problem instead of just the symptom.

There is plain racism. It is about feelings and the reptilian part of our brain.
But there is also structural racism. It is about money and power.
IMO the latter is the far huger issue.. So if you want more non-white artists to design art for Dominion, caring about them not rotting away in prisons doing slave labour is kinda relevant.

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2020, 09:11:32 am »
+5

If you wish to discuss how we should end capitalism in order to get more PoC on Dominion cards, feel free to do this in an RSP thread on a related topic that I recently opened:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20411.0

It seems to go beyond the scope of this thread.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: White and PoC cards
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2020, 07:03:09 pm »
+1

I have a question: how is Peddler "both" if there is only one person?
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