Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[EFHW]

Yeah, there is a strong reason to do it. But without Swowl and Galz, it isn't happening.

EFHW, if not MiX, then who? I'm hoping to find some time to reread, at least D1 and maybe the end of days 2 and 3, but like I said, don't feel great about trying to make a case against people I think are town.

No matter who we decide on (individually or collectively) seems like we'll need one of Swowl or Galz.

You or faust.

[scolapasta]

1. Robz #36: Okay, and we can sort of work backwards and figure out more stuff, if I'm understanding the setup. Mysterio is 2, Thanos is 2, and Ultron is 1. So 5 scum points is... 8 town points? So we have some combination of town PRs equal to 8. Which I guess doesn't tell us anything, except that if like three people claim Hulk someone is lying.
- That is Robz fucking up the 8-5 point system and then again giving the triple hulk example. As there is no way Robz did not know they had 6 points to spend, not 5, that is leading town to believe it.

2. Space #81 - I like this reverse engineering plan, but I'm not sure about the Framer and Loki being quite that much of a trade-off. Looking at the set of scum roles, there are only two for odd numbers of points, and since they have 5 points worth of roles, that means either a Loki and two Ultrons, or a Loki and only one other two-point baddie.
- So at this point I am 100% certain it was a plan. Space promoting the concept again of 5 points, but while also masking it with a town slip bc of the double ultron impossibility.

3. Robz #102 - Just so I am reading this correctly: It's possible, though extremely unlikely, we have 8 Ant-Mans?
- wrong... as he knew... it is possible that we had NINE antmans. again pushing the agenda.

*** I have boat loads more, especially when I pan out into the realm of not flipped skum, which is why I am voting pasta.... but just those 3 right there...from you know the 2 flipped skum... that is within like 90 game posts of the start of Day 1. So, yeah. it was a set up.

OK, so I reread the D1 setup talk and I get what Swowl is saying. Robz and space definitely both made some what we now know (or suspect*) are false assertions about the PRs we might have. And I'm also guessing then that his vote for me is post #99?

Here's the thing though. What scum team would do that?? Scum have to know that at some point town is going to figure out there's something screwy about the PRs and the points. Why else even try it? If we believe this to be true*, part of the strategy then is this discussion. But would scum really have all three members offer up these false assertions? Knowing that we would go back and reread D1 as soon as we learned of this? Seems to me much more likely that they'd have at most 2 (even that seems a little dangerous**) make these claims. Even if they neglected to plan this out N0, they have/had daychat so easily could've steered away from painting huge targets on all of them.

In other words, I think we should be looking at the people who engaged less (or not at all) in the setup talk.

* There's still room for the interpretation that they were really discussing the real setup, and that Swowl only decided on this strategem sometime during D3.

** while I think a scum team might even prefer only 1 discusser, once Robz started it, from my experience of playing with space, it would be hard for her not to get involved in "mathy" talk and not arouse at least a little suspicion. So that might explain, why two of them.

[MiX]

I disagree completely with Swowl, it's clearly looking for motive after knowing it happened. I could've made the same examples given the setup, and so could everyone else, all of town was thinking like that at the time, there was no reason for scum to talk about it more than town, you don't need to stop town from thinking about something if they have no reason to do so. In fact, giving those examples (specifically Robz's) makes town think about if it is possible.

It's part of why I wanted Swowl dead, hence the no exile, but his argument's better than what I was thinking.

[scolapasta]

I disagree completely with Swowl, it's clearly looking for motive after knowing it happened. I could've made the same examples given the setup, and so could everyone else, all of town was thinking like that at the time, there was no reason for scum to talk about it more than town, you don't need to stop town from thinking about something if they have no reason to do so. In fact, giving those examples (specifically Robz's) makes town think about if it is possible.

It's part of why I wanted Swowl dead, hence the no exile, but his argument's better than what I was thinking.

Yeah, for funsies, try reading Swowl's post as if he were the last scum. It's not completely crazy.

[MiX]

I disagree completely with Swowl, it's clearly looking for motive after knowing it happened. I could've made the same examples given the setup, and so could everyone else, all of town was thinking like that at the time, there was no reason for scum to talk about it more than town, you don't need to stop town from thinking about something if they have no reason to do so. In fact, giving those examples (specifically Robz's) makes town think about if it is possible.

It's part of why I wanted Swowl dead, hence the no exile, but his argument's better than what I was thinking.

Yeah, for funsies, try reading Swowl's post as if he were the last scum. It's not completely crazy.

I did and they're pretty incriminating given he spends a lot of time saying he's town, where he's the last person whose arguments will be heard about that.

But he's also going to die eventually so.

[EFHW]

What was Space's "town slip"?

scola, you stopped short of looking for the #3 partner who didn't discuss setup.

[MiX]

What was Space's "town slip"?

scola, you stopped short of looking for the #3 partner who didn't discuss setup.

When they said that there could be 2 Ultrons, but there can only be 1 of each scum role.

Swowl pointed it out by the way. Just saying.

Although if Swowl's town I have absolutely no idea what scum was doing D2 after chairs claimed. Just going down in a sea of cred?

[MiX]

What was Space's "town slip"?

scola, you stopped short of looking for the #3 partner who didn't discuss setup.

When they said that there could be 2 Ultrons, but there can only be 1 of each scum role.

Swowl pointed it out by the way. Just saying.

Although if Swowl's scum I have absolutely no idea what scum was doing D2 after chairs claimed. Just going down in a sea of cred?

EBWOP. Best scumslip of my life.

[scolapasta]

What was Space's "town slip"?

scola, you stopped short of looking for the #3 partner who didn't discuss setup.

Not quite, I did look, but the problem here is that I'm not sure how you find specific evidence in lack of evidence. (does that make any sense?)

I mean, faust (née LaLight), Galz, and you don't (or hardly) discuss the setup. Swowl and Mix do, but mostly focused on what town PRs could be based on scum PRs, not so much about points (Mix does mention the points once).

The only other ones who mentioned the points setup were joth and chairs.

So there was nothing for me to find in the setup talk (based on this) that points (pun intended) more to one of you vs the others.

I'll admit it's a little convenient, but my "3rd scum wouldn't have discussed setup based on points" really only clears me.

[faust]

Faust: Why is Scola NOT scum?

I wanted to do rereads of both EFHW and scola, then I can give a detailed answer, because for now all I have is "because MiX is", and I have a feeling that won't convince you.

[faust]

Okeydoke, let's do it. Reread time.

We've got this. I think (and has this been pointed out by scola already? Maybe.) scum!scola would lean that hard into the "8 points" misdirection if Robz already championed it.

Here you've got EFHW coming in after some time of not being around, and commenting exclusively on town (if we're to assume that she's scum). It seems like she's have included a scumpartner in her opinions.

Here is a late D1 vote count.

Vote Count 1.3

Isis (2): EFHW, SpaceAnemone
Swowl (2): LaLight, Robz888,
jotheonah (4): MiX, chairs, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
LaLight (1): Dylan32
chairs (4): Galzria, scolapasta, Isis, jotheonah

Not Voting (0):

Immediately afterwards Robz votes for chairs. It's more likely that he's joining the wagon that doesn't have scum in it yet. Which makes scola townier. There's also the fact that Space and EFHW are on the same wagon, which seems like not the most likely scum move, but could be I guess since noone else is there.

scola also puts MiX to L-1 with Robz already voting there. Why do that? It will just look bad and if scola is scum here, then all the wagons are on town, so there's no need to push hard.

I'm not buying this by the way, it very much reads like Robz looking for an excuse to dismantle the MiX wagon:

Also, if Didds is not going to vote for MiX no matter what, I'm not sure we can even get a lynch.

scola hammers joth 7 seconds before deadline. He absolutely didn't need to. Could have gotten an amazing noxile here.

There is clearly a bunch of bussing going on at the start of D2, pretty much regardless of who the team is.

faust has replaced LaLight.

Vote Count 2.1

Isis (1): MiX
MiX (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (2): Robz888, Isis
Robz888 (3): EFHW, chairs, scolapasta
chairs (1): Swowl

Not Voting (2): faust, Galzria

(MiX had been on Robz before that.)

So pretty certainly, all 3 scums have been voting for each other. That's why I can't really buy the idea that MiX, Space and Robz voting for each other early on exonerates MiX.

unvote. Robz is seeming more town-oriented recently. I'm open to voting Galz or chairs. I would like them to answer my question from awhile back. I'll find it and post it next.

Doesn't seem likely that scum!EFHW just unvotes a bus without moving somewhere.

And, again, scola is putting down an L-1 vote... there's just no need for scum to play this aggressively.

Uh, scola is incredibly townie for unvoting there. Unless chairs and scola are both scum and planned the X-1 and the claim, which does not seem likely.

I don't think that's a scum-on-scum read.

And of course, there's the end of D2, where both scola and EFHW are crucial in making the Robz exile go through.

[MiX]

faust has replaced LaLight.

Vote Count 2.1

Isis (1): MiX
MiX (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (2): Robz888, Isis
Robz888 (3): EFHW, chairs, scolapasta
chairs (1): Swowl

Not Voting (2): faust, Galzria

(MiX had been on Robz before that.)

So pretty certainly, all 3 scums have been voting for each other. That's why I can't really buy the idea that MiX, Space and Robz voting for each other early on exonerates MiX.

Aren't you assuming I'm scum by saying all 3 scum are bussing? I just see two, one if you're scum (or Swowl/Galz I guess).

[Galzria]

faust has replaced LaLight.

Vote Count 2.1

Isis (1): MiX
MiX (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (2): Robz888, Isis
Robz888 (3): EFHW, chairs, scolapasta
chairs (1): Swowl

Not Voting (2): faust, Galzria

(MiX had been on Robz before that.)

So pretty certainly, all 3 scums have been voting for each other. That's why I can't really buy the idea that MiX, Space and Robz voting for each other early on exonerates MiX.

Aren't you assuming I'm scum by saying all 3 scum are bussing? I just see two, one if you're scum (or Swowl/Galz I guess).

What he’s stated is both clear and generally true:

Robz (scum) is on Space (scum)
Space (scum) is on MiX (unknown)
EFHW (unknown) and Scola (unknown) are on Robz (scum)

If scum is one of MiX/EFHW/Scola, then all scum were bussing. Clearly this doesn’t hold true if faust is scum, but that’s not a scenario that faust would ever consider. It’s also not true if Galz/Swowl are scum - but he says “pretty certainly”, not “it’s guaranteed” for a reason.

[MiX]

What he’s stated is both clear and generally true:

Robz (scum) is on Space (scum)
Space (scum) is on MiX (unknown)
EFHW (unknown) and Scola (unknown) are on Robz (scum)

If scum is one of MiX/EFHW/Scola, then all scum were bussing. Clearly this doesn’t hold true if faust is scum, but that’s not a scenario that faust would ever consider. It’s also not true if Galz/Swowl are scum - but he says “pretty certainly”, not “it’s guaranteed” for a reason.

Can you reread your own post and realize that Space was voting for me, and not Robz?

[MiX]

On the other hand, you both made the same mistake, so it can't be scummy.

I guess I'll have to put in effort, huh.

I'll promise a heavily biased case per day from now on. Hopefully after that I'll find scum, or drown the thread in terrible reads, one of the two.

[Galzria]

The drearism grows tiring.

[MiX]

The drearism grows tiring.

Did you identify yours and faust's mistake that I brought up?

[EFHW]

Ok, after a lot of thought, I'm back to thinking MiX is the best exile for today. My reasons:

1. He is too upset. Scum!MiX loses the game if he is exiled. Town!MiX would be more pragmatic about the situation. He said he has to stay alive and that is NOT the town wincon. Being so upset is also what's keeping him alive - his Appeals to Emotion are very effective.

2. He has done almost no scumhunting. Town!MiX has a mad method that is surprisingly successful. In this game, he tunneled joth Day 1 and Isis Day 2, with no case for either.

3. He backed off from Robz after a spot-on description of how Robz was being scummy, saying he preferred Isis because she wasn't doing anything.

4. If he is town, yes he would be a prime framing target. But I think the strength of thinking "yes, scum would definitely try to frame town!MiX" has drowned out the possibility that he actually is scum. For scum!MiX, the existence of a framer does not provide any defense.

5. He didn't hammer chairs.

I haven't looked at the Day 3 voting records yet, so I may have more to say later.

vote: MiX

[MiX]

5. He didn't hammer chairs.

You're actually trolling if you think this is in any way a point to me being scum. How many times do I need to say I HAVE NEVER HAMMERED unless I was winning the game by doing so (or that weird everyone-is-scum BM game joth ran).

I can give you a LOT of reasons why I wouldn't hammer there as town:

- The wagon blew up, and chairs wasn't around when I could hammer.

- I don't like hammering, and not being on the wagon means something's wrong. I usually push whatever wagon's exiled, as that's my playstyle.

- When chairs did appear, I wasn't around. It happens. What do I even gain from ghosting like that?

- I stated time and time again that chairs was the least scummy of my scumreads. Go check, I said that like 4 times or something.

- I would've looked really silly, and really scummy, if I did hammer that and he was town. It's too much of a gamble to take it. It also takes away agency from town if I decide when the day ends. I never do that.

And the scum reasons as well:

- Robz was on there, and it would've looked awful for both of us.

- Would anyone hesitate to exile me once I hammered the non-claiming Iron Man? No.

- As scum has a rolecop, bringing someone to X-1 to claim is very useful. Note how scum hasn't missed a PR yet.

Also, how many times was this not-hammer brought up? How many times do I need to justify myself? Will you only believe my honest meta read on myself when I flip?


The rest of your points is fine, this one is just awful and filler, and it's really getting on my nerves at this point.

[EFHW]

It's not filler. It's much harder to hammer as scum.

[MiX]

It's not filler. It's much harder to hammer as scum.

It would've been incredibly stupid of me to hammer in that situation, and I've outlined all the reasons why the hammer didn't happen. Why is it alignment indicative?

[Swowl]

Weekend has been busy.
Will be back in the morning.

[EFHW]

Day 3 voting record (new format)

1087 Galzria v. EFHW (1)
1089 faust v. MiX (1)
1094 scolapasta v. EFHW (2, with Galzria)
1108 scolapasta v. MiX (2, with faust)
1120 Dylan v. scolapasta (1)
1122 chairs v. MiX (3, with faust, scolapasta)
1163 Swowl v. EFHW (2, with Galzria)
1068 MiX v. Dylan (1)
1195 EFHW v. scolapasta (2, with Dylan)
1209 Dylan v. MiX (4, with faust, scolapasta, chairs)
1214 EFHW v. Dylan (2, with MiX)
1252 chairs v. Dylan (3, with MiX, EFHW)
1255 scolapasta v. faust (1)
1261 Swowl v. Dylan (4, with MiX, EFHW, chairs)
1262 Dylan v. Swowl (1)
1263 Galzria hammers Dylan (5, with MiX, EFHW, chairs, Swowl)

[EFHW]

It's not filler. It's much harder to hammer as scum.

It would've been incredibly stupid of me to hammer in that situation, and I've outlined all the reasons why the hammer didn't happen. Why is it alignment indicative?

Like you said, there were several reasons not to hammer if you are scum. Maybe you wouldn't have hammered as town, either. But I think you had mentioned chairs as scummy. That's why the lack of hammer was notable. I will look for the quote.

[EFHW]

I caught scum already. Why do I need to do more?

The scumteam's joth/pops/chairs by the way. Just exile all of them and win!