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Author Topic: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (GAME OVER)  (Read 190727 times)

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faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1175 on: August 12, 2020, 05:41:46 am »

I have a reason to clear everyone else.
Would you mind sharing those?
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1176 on: August 12, 2020, 07:05:46 am »

I have a reason to clear everyone else.
Would you mind sharing those?

No problem! I'll also share why I think I can't be scum with Space.

I wondered about the crumb thing, too.  It's true that whether she did or not doesn't help catch scum, but it's natural to be curious.

What does seem strange to me is Space's defense of her comment. Why go on about the relative strengths of f.ds players in English? Didds wouldn't have known how skilled scum were at reading in English. If we found a breadcrumb, would there be any inferences to make based on knowing who has a different first language?

Keeping my suspicions to myself is just making me too quiet, so I'll share.  And likely regret it. But I completely agree with MiX's observations about Robz. These were the thoughts I wasn't mentioning.  Why did you back down so quickly, MiX?

Vote: Robz

I will also mention a different possibility other than Robz being scum, which is that he is still riding high after his successful scumreading in the last game.

Mentioning both partners in a negative light when they're already fighting each other in the thread is a bit questionable, and if this were the team they were doing great. I don't see EFHW being scum because of this.

I wondered about the crumb thing, too.  It's true that whether she did or not doesn't help catch scum, but it's natural to be curious.

What does seem strange to me is Space's defense of her comment. Why go on about the relative strengths of f.ds players in English? Didds wouldn't have known how skilled scum were at reading in English. If we found a breadcrumb, would there be any inferences to make based on knowing who has a different first language?

I'm really puzzled how you three (EFHW, MiX, Isis) think about breadcrumbs that you're all three agreeing that this is irrelevant. It might not offer anything more than super-weak evidence against some certain configurations of scum-team, but I see a definite distinction between that and "irrelevant". The way I see it, a breadcrumb is something you post early in the game so that when claims come out later, you can point to it and say something along the lines on "see, I'm not just making it up and claiming the most convenient role: I hid this secret message at the start".

For that to work, you need to come up with something that's subtle enough not to be noticed by scum, but clear enough that they can't really argue against it once you've pointed it out. That's a language skill. If there was a breadcrumb, then for scum to spot it, especially since I looked in retrospect and still couldn't see something, I suggest that at least one member of the scumteam is clever enough or familiar enough with Didds's language patterns that they sussed it out.

So.. how is that different from what you three mean?

Mentioning EFHW, me and Isis in the same light suggests neither of us are scum.

If you are good at crumbing there should be a 0% chance of scum figuring out your crumb.  Lots of people are just lazy though.  Airtight crumbs are trivial.

It sounds like MiX is saying Didds wouldn't crumb at all.

It still seems pretty silly and peripheral but maybe you actually have taken interest in such a futile thing.  Do you wanna help me kill MiX? The mod didn't give me a dayvig this time.

Side note: if people think Isis didn't have a scum result on me, this is proof that she had. Post about crumbing, forces themselves to place my name there.

Yeah.

Vote: Galzria

Given how quickly the Galzria wagon grew, I'd say he's not scum.

Bad math feels like it should be scummy. Makes me want to vote for chairs.

But I don't think it is actually scummy. Since it's easy to be shown wrong, not actually lead anywhere.

On another note, sorry I haven't been around much the past few days, though I have not lurked like others for the entirety of the game. A tree fell on my car, so been dealing with that / generally unhappy about it. Good news is it looks like it is covered; bad news will take 2.5 weeks (!)

Vote: Dylan

Have a work meeting now, so will add more after, but wanted to get it out there, see what others think.

Really sorry about your car!

Why Dylan, though?

Scum!Dylan, anyone?

Obviously I prefer Chairs to Galz.

What even is the case on Dylan?

How dare you vote Space's partner!

Both of these point to scola being town, why would both scum have the same reaction otherwise?

Uh, scola is incredibly townie for unvoting there. Unless chairs and scola are both scum and planned the X-1 and the claim, which does not seem likely.

This seems genuine. Given how right Robz was with his reads, I don't think this is when he would defend his partner.

Uh, scola is incredibly townie for unvoting there. Unless chairs and scola are both scum and planned the X-1 and the claim, which does not seem likely.

What? Of course scola unvotes as any alignment.

Unvote, idk anymore.

Why would scum bother unvoting there?

What does that even mean? Scola unvotes because town!scola unvotes. I don't understand what your question is.

I can say that I would've said all this in the scum QT, but a better argument is probably that I applied random amounts of pressure on Robz for no reason if we're scumbuddies.

Yeah ok so I was just wrong for this entire game and I completely destroyed D1 and D2, causing a bunch of people to claim and a lot of misexiles while scum have gotten zero scrutiny.

There's 3 scum in (scola, space, galz, swan, robz, efhw, dylan, faust). Let's get hunting.

I won't be around for LyLo.

Willing to exile myself.

Join the Galz wagon!

Galz is town.

Uh, scola is incredibly townie for unvoting there. Unless chairs and scola are both scum and planned the X-1 and the claim, which does not seem likely.

What? Of course scola unvotes as any alignment.

Unvote, idk anymore.

Why would scum bother unvoting there?

What does that even mean? Scola unvotes because town!scola unvotes. I don't understand what your question is.

This. What advantage does scum!scola ever get from NOT unvoting? Hope Town comes in and accidentally hammers? Please.

Unvote

—-

Placeholder: Vote: Robz while I think things through.

He's more evidence Galz is town if you weren't convinced already.

Vote: Robz

Either faust connected the dots and bussed really early, or he's town. Given scum's position today relative to yesterday, I'd say it's the former.

Catching up now. Chairs claiming a PR sounds about right because either he's scum wanting a way out, or he's a PR who's been playing it scummily. That's not helping though... it doesn't even explain MiX's weird behaviour.

This is not what you say about a partner when your primary target for misexile claimed a PR. And if I'm scum, they claimed an innocent result on someone scum was pushing.

Did you color Isis?

Nope.. what did I miss??

Chairs' cop result on Isis came green.

Why would I say this publicly? Now I realize that it's questionable that Space missed who chairs copped, but as scum I would've seen that this didn't help Space live long.

Vote: MiX

I think on balance believing Chairs for now is the smart thing to do here, so I won't leave my vote sitting there.

PPE 3

Checks out of the day with a vote on me. If it's bussing, what is scum doing? Pushing Swowl? If it goes south, why not having an alternative ready?

Vote: Robz

Galz is at this point obv!scum and it's pretty frustrating we can't make this happen. He shows up periodically to push bad wagons and drive us off track, and then goes back to lurking.

I still don't really think MiX is scum. Who was the person saying the joth-chairs-MiX trio was a massive distraction and we should look elsewhere? Because that would be a pretty townie person. Oh that's right, it was me, but as usual NoBoDy LiStEnEd. (I also correctly called Isis as town when a lot of people were saying it was scummy to talk about hearthstone or something equally idiotic.)

Sort of looks like it's swowl or MiX, so Vote: Swowl but I really have no idea about him anymore.

Swowl's town or scum is playing the longest con of their lives. So, Swowl's town.




This is my "why is no one other than Dylan scum" wall. The "why is Dylan scum" wall will be here shortly, which is to say in about 1 IRL day.
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faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1177 on: August 12, 2020, 08:40:21 am »

Well, the reasons for why people other than you aren't scum are solid, I'll give you that. Unfortunately there's a massive quality drop when it comes to why you aren't scum.
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1178 on: August 12, 2020, 08:44:40 am »

Well, the reasons for why people other than you aren't scum are solid, I'll give you that. Unfortunately there's a massive quality drop when it comes to why you aren't scum.

Well yeah I'm incredibly biased. You find it, I can't realistically defend myself reasonably well.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #1179 on: August 12, 2020, 11:02:03 am »

Vote Count 3.1
 
EFHW (2): Galzria, Swowl
MiX (3): faust, scolapasta, chairs
scolapasta (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): MiX

Not Voting (1): EFHW

With 8 alive it takes 5 to exile.

Day 3 ends at 10:45AM FT on Monday, August 17th.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1180 on: August 12, 2020, 11:14:39 am »

Yeah, being included in a group of 3 people of the same read by scum doesn't say much, because they will usually include the partners in with groups of town, and the "I would have said all this in the scum QT" post included an unvote, which you couldn't have done in the QT.
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1181 on: August 12, 2020, 11:27:13 am »

Yeah, being included in a group of 3 people of the same read by scum doesn't say much, because they will usually include the partners in with groups of town, and the "I would have said all this in the scum QT" post included an unvote, which you couldn't have done in the QT.

What unvote?
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1182 on: August 12, 2020, 12:19:36 pm »

Yeah, being included in a group of 3 people of the same read by scum doesn't say much, because they will usually include the partners in with groups of town, and the "I would have said all this in the scum QT" post included an unvote, which you couldn't have done in the QT.

What unvote?

(Quote)
Uh, scola is incredibly townie for unvoting there. Unless chairs and scola are both scum and planned the X-1 and the claim, which does not seem likely.

What? Of course scola unvotes as any alignment.

Unvote, idk anymore.

Why would scum bother unvoting there?

What does that even mean? Scola unvotes because town!scola unvotes. I don't understand what your question is.

I can say that I would've said all this in the scum QT, but a better argument is probably that I applied random amounts of pressure on Robz for no reason if we're scumbuddies.
(/quote)
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1183 on: August 12, 2020, 12:21:14 pm »

Well, I didn't need to unvote, I could've just pivoted to Swowl like I did moments after.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1184 on: August 12, 2020, 12:24:43 pm »

Right, but you couldn’t have done that in the day chat like you said you would have.
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1185 on: August 12, 2020, 12:27:01 pm »

Right, but you couldn’t have done that in the day chat like you said you would have.

I couldn't unvote, yes, but the unvote serves no purpose if I'm scum.

Who do you think is scum?
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scolapasta

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1186 on: August 12, 2020, 12:37:22 pm »

I'm not sure why I keep getting suggested as "not around". Unless it's just that I'm not posting that much, but that's just because I don't have any strong reads at this time. (and yes, this plays into Dylan's suspicions of me as "new scum" but what can I do about that?)

I'll try to find some time in the next couple of days to reread and see if I can find anything. I feel like we're all just kinda grasping at straws at this point, and at least for me, it's frustrating.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #1187 on: August 12, 2020, 12:41:31 pm »

I don't believe MiX is scum, and I think we should be exiling Joth instead.

I definitely didn't find Joth as scummy as MiX in my re-read just now.

Do you feel sure that scum!Joth would go after MiX as much as he did for the failed Chairs-hammer, even though MiX was already heavily scumreading Joth?

On the other hand, this post really stuck out to me, because as someone who was tying to stop the Joth exile it was frustrating that here was a potential non-Joth vote and yet you didn't vote for MiX and instead went for Joth. Why? And why did you need to check with Galz about it?

Vote: Space

I mean, MiX just claimed VT and Galz said we should rethink and move to Joth, so continuing to a hammer at that point with new info without discussing it at least briefly in the thread seemed reckless.

I didn't/don't have a strong townread on Galz, but if he's scum trying to protect a buddy, that question may not be the thing he wants to answer at that point, so it seemed interesting to see what he'd say.

As for why Joth, it was Chairs who set the wagon swinging that way, and then WCD (whom I townread) saying she wouldn't exile MiX, so you asking why Joth instead of MiX is inaccurate because the choice for who we could pursue at that point Joth or Chairs, given who was around and most likely to put down votes in time.

PPE 3

Also, to your points on scum not bussing and therefore clearing everyone after one post of suspicion towards them from Robz, here is scum!Robz voting for scum!Space for not voting guiltyresult!MiX. If you think Robz’s alleged read on a player is 100% alignment indicative, this post says no.

Right, but you couldn’t have done that in the day chat like you said you would have.

I couldn't unvote, yes, but the unvote serves no purpose if I'm scum.

Who do you think is scum?

Either you or scola with an outside shot of faust.

Ppe 1
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1188 on: August 12, 2020, 12:43:21 pm »

I don't think scum would be scumreading scum while also attacking each other. The fact that Space and Robz were against each other says that they were pushing their agenda elsewhere, aka scumreading town and townreading scum.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1189 on: August 12, 2020, 12:44:20 pm »

I'm not sure why I keep getting suggested as "not around". Unless it's just that I'm not posting that much, but that's just because I don't have any strong reads at this time. (and yes, this plays into Dylan's suspicions of me as "new scum" but what can I do about that?)

I'll try to find some time in the next couple of days to reread and see if I can find anything. I feel like we're all just kinda grasping at straws at this point, and at least for me, it's frustrating.

I mean, I don’t really feel the grasping at straws vibe.  I feel really good about that 3 person pool that includes a guilty result.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1190 on: August 12, 2020, 12:46:50 pm »

I don't think scum would be scumreading scum while also attacking each other. The fact that Space and Robz were against each other says that they were pushing their agenda elsewhere, aka scumreading town and townreading scum.

Why does it say that though? Of everyone who could be a 3rd partner, based on meta alone you would be a great target to bus and treat as the odd man out because you are notoriously hard to exile, even when you are under pressure literally the entire game. Robz and Space are good enough they could 100% have faked this over voting or not for their other partner in order to distance all 3 of you.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1191 on: August 12, 2020, 12:47:49 pm »

I don't think scum would be scumreading scum while also attacking each other. The fact that Space and Robz were against each other says that they were pushing their agenda elsewhere, aka scumreading town and townreading scum.

Why does it say that though? Of everyone who could be a 3rd partner, based on meta alone you would be a great target to bus and treat as the odd man out because you are notoriously hard to exile, even when you are under pressure literally the entire game. Robz and Space are good enough they could 100% have faked this over voting or not for their other partner in order to distance all 3 of you.

Who do they push then? Swowl? Then what? That's not a long term plan.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1192 on: August 12, 2020, 12:59:17 pm »

I don't think scum would be scumreading scum while also attacking each other. The fact that Space and Robz were against each other says that they were pushing their agenda elsewhere, aka scumreading town and townreading scum.

Why does it say that though? Of everyone who could be a 3rd partner, based on meta alone you would be a great target to bus and treat as the odd man out because you are notoriously hard to exile, even when you are under pressure literally the entire game. Robz and Space are good enough they could 100% have faked this over voting or not for their other partner in order to distance all 3 of you.

Who do they push then? Swowl? Then what? That's not a long term plan.

I mean, yeah, swowl, LL/faust, Robz and Galz had enough conflict that could have been a target, and if I didn’t come to my sense on Robz my reads would have been bad enough at that point that I would have been a good misexile target. So they could have bussed you and if/when you flipped red, they’d have been in really solid shape actually.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1193 on: August 12, 2020, 01:00:32 pm »

Rephrasing the first part: yeah swowl was being pushed, LL/Faust would have been a decent target eventually, then Robz and galz yada yada yada
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1194 on: August 12, 2020, 03:16:12 pm »

vote: scolapasta.

POE mostly. On ISO he feels null. Complaining about his own participation a lot, which is potentially scummy. I am also considering Dylan, maybe faust. Not Galz or MiX. Not Swowl. And not chairs, obviously.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1195 on: August 12, 2020, 03:19:54 pm »

Right, but you couldn’t have done that in the day chat like you said you would have.

This is true, but why are you saying it? Is there some way you find MiX scummy regarding this point?
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1196 on: August 12, 2020, 03:29:02 pm »

I want to exile MiX today, but I will settle for anyone who refuses to do that.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1197 on: August 12, 2020, 03:33:31 pm »

I want to exile MiX today, but I will settle for anyone who refuses to do that.

Ha! Those where my thoughts exactly. Though I was afraid to post, because somehow I feel saying it would garner someone's suspicion on me.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1198 on: August 12, 2020, 03:34:19 pm »

I want to exile MiX today, but I will settle for anyone who refuses to do that.
The existence of a framer isn't relevant to you?
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D3)
« Reply #1199 on: August 12, 2020, 03:34:46 pm »

Right, but you couldn’t have done that in the day chat like you said you would have.

This is true, but why are you saying it? Is there some way you find MiX scummy regarding this point?

Faust pointed out that MiX’s reasons why he isn’t scum are weaker than the reasons other people aren’t. This was one of those points. I pointed two of them out specifically. In light of a guilty result, MiX needs to have good reasons he isn’t scum for us to ignore that guilty result.
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