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Author Topic: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (GAME OVER)  (Read 190460 times)

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scolapasta

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #750 on: July 31, 2020, 02:10:48 pm »

I mean this is truly ridiculous. I pushed one case, I CORRECTLY defended someone else, and I subject Space to some minimum amount of scrutiny and that makes me controlling scum?

No.

Vote: Isis

See, this is more like the MiX I'm used to. SO why was D1 MiX so different?

(that said, I'm curious about your Robz hypothesis, will add him to my reread list for sure)
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #751 on: July 31, 2020, 02:12:04 pm »

D1 MiX's always different. Also, I think I set my expectations on what joth would do completely offtrack, so the flag to move my vote was never set.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #752 on: July 31, 2020, 02:22:14 pm »

I don't believe MiX is scum, and I think we should be exiling Joth instead.

I definitely didn't find Joth as scummy as MiX in my re-read just now.

Do you feel sure that scum!Joth would go after MiX as much as he did for the failed Chairs-hammer, even though MiX was already heavily scumreading Joth?

On the other hand, this post really stuck out to me, because as someone who was tying to stop the Joth exile it was frustrating that here was a potential non-Joth vote and yet you didn't vote for MiX and instead went for Joth. Why? And why did you need to check with Galz about it?

Vote: Space

I mean, MiX just claimed VT and Galz said we should rethink and move to Joth, so continuing to a hammer at that point with new info without discussing it at least briefly in the thread seemed reckless.

I didn't/don't have a strong townread on Galz, but if he's scum trying to protect a buddy, that question may not be the thing he wants to answer at that point, so it seemed interesting to see what he'd say.

As for why Joth, it was Chairs who set the wagon swinging that way, and then WCD (whom I townread) saying she wouldn't exile MiX, so you asking why Joth instead of MiX is inaccurate because the choice for who we could pursue at that point Joth or Chairs, given who was around and most likely to put down votes in time.

PPE 3
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chairs

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #753 on: July 31, 2020, 02:51:28 pm »

I'm not sold on Isis. Who's our surprise quiet person? Will have to check post counts

Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #754 on: July 31, 2020, 02:55:49 pm »

I don't believe MiX is scum, and I think we should be exiling Joth instead.

I definitely didn't find Joth as scummy as MiX in my re-read just now.

Do you feel sure that scum!Joth would go after MiX as much as he did for the failed Chairs-hammer, even though MiX was already heavily scumreading Joth?

On the other hand, this post really stuck out to me, because as someone who was tying to stop the Joth exile it was frustrating that here was a potential non-Joth vote and yet you didn't vote for MiX and instead went for Joth. Why? And why did you need to check with Galz about it?

Vote: Space

I mean, MiX just claimed VT and Galz said we should rethink and move to Joth, so continuing to a hammer at that point with new info without discussing it at least briefly in the thread seemed reckless.

I didn't/don't have a strong townread on Galz, but if he's scum trying to protect a buddy, that question may not be the thing he wants to answer at that point, so it seemed interesting to see what he'd say.

As for why Joth, it was Chairs who set the wagon swinging that way, and then WCD (whom I townread) saying she wouldn't exile MiX, so you asking why Joth instead of MiX is inaccurate because the choice for who we could pursue at that point Joth or Chairs, given who was around and most likely to put down votes in time.

PPE 3

Well then why Joth over chairs? That doesn't make sense either. And I still don't see why you were seeking Galz's permission, especially if you're not townreading him.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #755 on: July 31, 2020, 02:57:21 pm »

I'm not sold on Isis. Who's our surprise quiet person? Will have to check post counts

Player post counts, from my VC script:
   123 MiX
   87 jotheonah
   76 Isis
   69 WestCoastDidds
   66 Robz888
   60 Galzria
   43 scolapasta
   39 Swowl
   34 SpaceAnemone
   32 Chairs
   25 EFHW
   22 Dylan32
   12 LaLight

That should count posts only since the start of the game.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #756 on: July 31, 2020, 03:01:10 pm »

Well then why Joth over chairs? That doesn't make sense either. And I still don't see why you were seeking Galz's permission, especially if you're not townreading him.

Why do you keep saying I was asking for Galz's permission?? I asked the thread at large whether anyone was around and wanted to comment. Galz answered, so I asked him a question that I thought I could learn something from.
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Isis

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2
« Reply #757 on: July 31, 2020, 03:05:25 pm »


WestCoastDidds has died! She was Groot!

I don't know what that is, but I hope it isn't too helpful to town, eh
Groot
We are Groot: Target a player, that player will be protected from any non-strongman kills.

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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #758 on: July 31, 2020, 03:06:55 pm »

Well then why Joth over chairs? That doesn't make sense either. And I still don't see why you were seeking Galz's permission, especially if you're not townreading him.

Why do you keep saying I was asking for Galz's permission?? I asked the thread at large whether anyone was around and wanted to comment. Galz answered, so I asked him a question that I thought I could learn something from.

We could have lynched someone other than Joth at that point, but your baffling decision to defer to Galz—a not-super-townie read to you, if I understand you correctly—essentially ended that.
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Isis

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #759 on: July 31, 2020, 03:10:14 pm »

I think MiX might be openwolfing at this point.  Scumreading me for being a viable exile day 1 rather than townreading me for a lack of participation in the day 1 exile is fitting evidence to his theories instead of fitting his theories to the evidence and it's a pretty trademark scum feature.

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

I wrote "stark" pattern but decided I didn't want anyone to imagine I was making crumbs lol
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #760 on: July 31, 2020, 03:14:02 pm »

#727 seems like a rather fake response to night since whether Didds crumbed anything is super irrelevant.  I could maybe get onboard with Space voting.  But like, MiX is openwolfing more flagrantly
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Isis

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #761 on: July 31, 2020, 03:16:06 pm »

If MiX or chairs ARE scum, then their partners surely did a lot of work to save them there and probably it's possible to figure out whose responsible. Unfortunately we don't actually know, and it also seems like it could have just been the case that scum were holding back, not needing to commit to any of those three wagons since they were all town, and THAT's why it was so hard to get any of the exiles through.

That almost feels instinctively like it might be the case.
MiX's partner MiX did a lot of work to save MiX while also doing MiX's best to make it look like MiX was not aligned with MiX.

He's kind of a force of nature, it seems like it should never be mysterious for him to survive a day phase
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LaLight

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #762 on: July 31, 2020, 03:19:47 pm »

I am a little bit behind and I am sorry about that. I have surprisingly shitload of work, so I will probably be replacing soon, sorry about that.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #763 on: July 31, 2020, 03:20:45 pm »

Man, it doesn't feel like I've posted that little. I guess avoiding the off-topic convos sort of hurts that stat.

Openwolfing is kind of what MiX's normal play looks like regardless of alignment.  But like Isis is saying, there's a strong narrative for scum!MiX D1, and so I am standing by that read for now.

Vote: MiX

ppe 2
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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #764 on: July 31, 2020, 03:23:54 pm »

I've actually never heard the term "openwolfing," or if I have I've forgotten it.
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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #765 on: July 31, 2020, 03:26:09 pm »

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

This is a cute theory but I'm so disinclined to believe we manage to make two scum are top wagons for Day 1. I think it's decently likely one is scum and one is not, but also decently likely neither is scum, and distantly unlikely that both are scum.

Well, even beyond just mathematically, I mean.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #766 on: July 31, 2020, 03:27:32 pm »

I've actually never heard the term "openwolfing," or if I have I've forgotten it.

I first heard about it from the championship thread this year from one of the games Cayvie was in. They linked to an article describing it. Basically, it's a strategy for scum to just talk about everything, control the conversations and just be so overt that town struggles to talk without you being part of it.  For people on the outside it can be obvious that you're scum, but it can be hard to separate yourself from the conversations enough to see it as a player. If I'm understanding it correctly anyway.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #767 on: July 31, 2020, 03:28:18 pm »

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

This is a cute theory but I'm so disinclined to believe we manage to make two scum are top wagons for Day 1. I think it's decently likely one is scum and one is not, but also decently likely neither is scum, and distantly unlikely that both are scum.

Well, even beyond just mathematically, I mean.

That's fair, but like I laid out D1, the narrative for scum!MiX's behavior holds whether chairs is scum or not.
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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #768 on: July 31, 2020, 03:32:13 pm »

I've actually never heard the term "openwolfing," or if I have I've forgotten it.

I first heard about it from the championship thread this year from one of the games Cayvie was in. They linked to an article describing it. Basically, it's a strategy for scum to just talk about everything, control the conversations and just be so overt that town struggles to talk without you being part of it.  For people on the outside it can be obvious that you're scum, but it can be hard to separate yourself from the conversations enough to see it as a player. If I'm understanding it correctly anyway.

Interesting. Well, yeah, that does fit MiX's play.
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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #769 on: July 31, 2020, 03:33:09 pm »

My recollection for our mafia games here is what we mostly see is the opposite of openwolfing—scum lurking in the background while town leads itself awry.
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #770 on: July 31, 2020, 03:38:11 pm »

I don't open wolf. I don't have the guts to do that as scum. I open town instead.

You can check my scum games, I'm usually more lurky and with less hot takes than usual.

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

This is a cute theory but I'm so disinclined to believe we manage to make two scum are top wagons for Day 1. I think it's decently likely one is scum and one is not, but also decently likely neither is scum, and distantly unlikely that both are scum.

Well, even beyond just mathematically, I mean.

It's very much possible, and if this is the case it would definitely be me/chairs more than isis/someone else.

I think MiX might be openwolfing at this point.  Scumreading me for being a viable exile day 1 rather than townreading me for a lack of participation in the day 1 exile is fitting evidence to his theories instead of fitting his theories to the evidence and it's a pretty trademark scum feature.

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

I wrote "stark" pattern but decided I didn't want anyone to imagine I was making crumbs lol

If you think me and chairs are partners, exile chairs. I don't see why this is a problem. I've been incredibly consistent with my read on chairs: not as scummy as other people. And it stays true.
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scolapasta

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #771 on: July 31, 2020, 04:09:24 pm »

I don't open wolf. I don't have the guts to do that as scum. I open town instead.

You can check my scum games, I'm usually more lurky and with less hot takes than usual.

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

This is a cute theory but I'm so disinclined to believe we manage to make two scum are top wagons for Day 1. I think it's decently likely one is scum and one is not, but also decently likely neither is scum, and distantly unlikely that both are scum.

Well, even beyond just mathematically, I mean.

It's very much possible, and if this is the case it would definitely be me/chairs more than isis/someone else.

I think MiX might be openwolfing at this point.  Scumreading me for being a viable exile day 1 rather than townreading me for a lack of participation in the day 1 exile is fitting evidence to his theories instead of fitting his theories to the evidence and it's a pretty trademark scum feature.

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

I wrote "stark" pattern but decided I didn't want anyone to imagine I was making crumbs lol

If you think me and chairs are partners, exile chairs. I don't see why this is a problem. I've been incredibly consistent with my read on chairs: not as scummy as other people. And it stays true.

Why chairs instead of you, though? I mean I guess if you're partners, it doesn't really matter. But I think it's also possible it's just one of you.

My D1 scum reads (at different times) were chairs, MiX, and Isis.

MiX is starting to feel more like what I'm used to from town!MiX*. Isis has started added real content, so that's good. Chairs hasn't posted much (any?) since they were X-1. Not sure how to interpret that.

* I'm always wary of this though, especially with MiX. I mean scum!Mix wants to play like town!Mix, no?

Will *try* to find some time to do a reread of D1 for Robz and anything else that jumps out this weekend. (and this is where I'll grumble at Isis for all the fluff posts!)
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #772 on: July 31, 2020, 04:13:44 pm »

I don't open wolf. I don't have the guts to do that as scum. I open town instead.

You can check my scum games, I'm usually more lurky and with less hot takes than usual.

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

This is a cute theory but I'm so disinclined to believe we manage to make two scum are top wagons for Day 1. I think it's decently likely one is scum and one is not, but also decently likely neither is scum, and distantly unlikely that both are scum.

Well, even beyond just mathematically, I mean.

It's very much possible, and if this is the case it would definitely be me/chairs more than isis/someone else.

I think MiX might be openwolfing at this point.  Scumreading me for being a viable exile day 1 rather than townreading me for a lack of participation in the day 1 exile is fitting evidence to his theories instead of fitting his theories to the evidence and it's a pretty trademark scum feature.

His treatment of chairs remains super super weird and it would be bizarre that town!MiX is not more interested in chairs right now.

I think they are partners and he posited a pool of town town bus.

I'm usually cautious about preflip associative theories but there's such a clear pattern here.

I wrote "stark" pattern but decided I didn't want anyone to imagine I was making crumbs lol

If you think me and chairs are partners, exile chairs. I don't see why this is a problem. I've been incredibly consistent with my read on chairs: not as scummy as other people. And it stays true.

Why chairs instead of you, though? I mean I guess if you're partners, it doesn't really matter. But I think it's also possible it's just one of you.

My D1 scum reads (at different times) were chairs, MiX, and Isis.

MiX is starting to feel more like what I'm used to from town!MiX*. Isis has started added real content, so that's good. Chairs hasn't posted much (any?) since they were X-1. Not sure how to interpret that.

* I'm always wary of this though, especially with MiX. I mean scum!Mix wants to play like town!Mix, no?

Will *try* to find some time to do a reread of D1 for Robz and anything else that jumps out this weekend. (and this is where I'll grumble at Isis for all the fluff posts!)

MiX started acting more like town!MiX after people made a big deal about how he wasn't acting like town!MiX and a wagon built on him.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #773 on: July 31, 2020, 04:14:33 pm »

If you believe he's acting like town!MiX, that is. I'm still not sure he is, but it is closer to it than he was D1 at least.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #774 on: July 31, 2020, 06:05:53 pm »

Well then why Joth over chairs? That doesn't make sense either. And I still don't see why you were seeking Galz's permission, especially if you're not townreading him.

Why do you keep saying I was asking for Galz's permission?? I asked the thread at large whether anyone was around and wanted to comment. Galz answered, so I asked him a question that I thought I could learn something from.

We could have lynched someone other than Joth at that point, but your baffling decision to defer to Galz—a not-super-townie read to you, if I understand you correctly—essentially ended that.

MiX claimed at #662, at which point the wagons looked like this, and I'd just posted intent:
Isis (1): EFHW
jotheonah (4): Swowl, Galzria, WestCoastDidds, MiX
MiX (6): Dylan32, LaLight, Robz888, scolapasta, jotheonah, Chairs
Chairs (2): SpaceAnemone, Isis

Hey, Mail-mi even posted an official vote count at #666, and then Didds came in and argued against MiX for several posts from #668, moving her vote to Chairs at #673. You were posting about Chairs at #674/#675. Galz chimed in at #676, and Chairs moved onto Joth at #677.

By #680, the wagons were essentially 4-all like this:
Isis (1): EFHW
jotheonah (4): Swowl, Galzria, MiX, Chairs
MiX (4): Dylan32, LaLight, scolapasta, jotheonah
Chairs (4): SpaceAnemone, Isis, WestCoastDidds, Robz888

Since Didds wouldn't vote MiX, we'd already run Chairs up once, and the strongest townread I had (Swowl) was on Joth, the logical thing was to move Joth when MiX seemed not be going through. You yourself were even making posts about scrambling to get an exile through! What wold you have had me do in that position?
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