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Author Topic: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (GAME OVER)  (Read 190544 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #325 on: July 24, 2020, 11:10:19 pm »

happy birthday! Are we neighbors? Did I know that?
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scolapasta

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #326 on: July 24, 2020, 11:11:22 pm »

happy birthday! Are we neighbors? Did I know that?

Sober you did.
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jotheonah

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #327 on: July 24, 2020, 11:12:37 pm »

Well when parties are a thing again I will invite you to one!
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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jotheonah

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #328 on: July 24, 2020, 11:13:41 pm »

i'm kinda sobering up tbh
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #329 on: July 24, 2020, 11:15:55 pm »

Out of the gate, the bolded below feels like "Good question, thanks for asking!" - it struck me as an acknowledgement of my prodding you on your post, while also saying "good work, gold star effort for you!". It's both acknowledging and dismissive in tone at the same time.

Well uh I think that's actually like x-1 what the hell

Unvote

Oh spare me the faux panicky unvoting when there's little real danger we'd exile MiX.

But also, this.

vote: Chairs

Robz - why did you make this post but not vote for Chairs?

I appreciate that you asked this. I was about to do so, and then I thought to myself, “okay but is this actually something scum does, or just something that annoys me? Is it actually townie to do something that annoys me, given that avoiding annoying me has to be a priority for scum?” One thing my brother, who is a much bette me town player than I, has taught me is too look for scum inconsistencies rather than just actions than seem unhelpful.

In the next quote, you kind of jump to my defense when Joth gets a weird vibe from me. The point of contention here again is my prodding of you, where your defense of me is "I don't agree, I think the question was fine". Again, it almost feels like you're trying to make sure I *really* appreciate that gold star you're giving me for asking a good question.

Why should we join you?

I'm so glad you asked!

Because I am getting scum vibes off Galzria. Specifically, this post:

Well uh I think that's actually like x-1 what the hell

Unvote

Oh spare me the faux panicky unvoting when there's little real danger we'd exile MiX.

But also, this.

vote: Chairs

Robz - why did you make this post but not vote for Chairs?

Ok, now I'm having a hard time articulating why this is scummy. Basically, I think it's scummy to jump on someone else's case and then sort of softly egg that person on to back it up with a vote. Like he's impatient to get a wagon going.

I don't agree, I think the question was fine.

I do think Galz is behaving quite like he did last game as scum, mostly in terms of relatively being lurky, but it's kind of early to say so for sure.

And then we're getting into WIFOM territory, but doesn't scum!Galz switch it up and go for overactivity here?

Your very next post was to jump in and take my side of an argument and to vote against Swowl. This is probably the post that most directly comes across as buddying - the other two are more gut feels.

not  "vla"... but I will be out for like the next 24 hours.

I thought Galz was getting the better of swowl in their exchange, which culminated in swowl OMGUS voting for Galz, and then declaring a 24 hour partial VLA, which I read as I'm-taking-heat-gotta-get-out-of-here, and THAT is legitimately more likely to be scum behavior.
Vote: Swowl

--------------------

It's early days still. You don't have a ton of posts all told. Nobody really does (MiX, Pops maybe?). That's made it all the more striking to me though that I've gotten these vibes off so little.


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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #330 on: July 24, 2020, 11:17:00 pm »

what is the chance that this Robz-Galz thing is town v town? what's the chance that it's scum v scum. These are good questions to ask.

The setup and combination of questions is better than what MiX asked regarding Me & Swowl.

Generally speaking, I hate X vs Y questions. They’re setup questions that frame two people in a “one must be scum” light with no real, honest reasoning being it. Town players disagree and debate far more often than town vs scum do. It’s much more townie and reasonable to ask “What’s your read on X”, and “What’s your read on Y”. Asking “What do you think of X vs Y” is just scummy.

I half agree. It's difficult but not impossible to tell scum vs town apart from town vs town. But it's very worthwhile to look for scum vs scum interactions (outside of multiball) since they're entirely manufactured.

Oh, certainly. Which is why I said that I like the way you put the combinations of questions better than I liked the way MiX phrased his question.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #331 on: July 24, 2020, 11:20:49 pm »

So while I much on some popcorn and watch this Galz - Robz whatever it is...

Y'all have convinced me to retract my pops vote.

Unvote

It seems logical that scum would not actually fluff post without some other plan as it is so clearly anti-town that it's too easy a target (note to future scumapasta, remember to fluff post someday!). And pops has posted some actually content since.

The above is also ironic, because I am about to fluff post. But just one and only because I feel it is inclusive and well, sharing is caring:

Today was my birthday (observed). A friend came down for a socially distanced outdoor lunch, then tennis, then socially distanced (and masked) Opening Day watching, and lastly socially distanced outdoor dinner*, with two other friends. It was so nice to see friends in 3D!

* for joth and other Boston people: Blue Ribbon, yum!

- Happy Birthday!!!

- I haven't played Tennis in so long. So much fun.

= Opening Days!!! I watched the Giants hold up much better through 6 against the Dodgers than I thought they would last night. Then things went as I expected.

- Happy Birthday again!!!
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #332 on: July 24, 2020, 11:22:50 pm »

Out of the gate, the bolded below feels like "Good question, thanks for asking!" - it struck me as an acknowledgement of my prodding you on your post, while also saying "good work, gold star effort for you!". It's both acknowledging and dismissive in tone at the same time.

Well uh I think that's actually like x-1 what the hell

Unvote

Oh spare me the faux panicky unvoting when there's little real danger we'd exile MiX.

But also, this.

vote: Chairs

Robz - why did you make this post but not vote for Chairs?

I appreciate that you asked this. I was about to do so, and then I thought to myself, “okay but is this actually something scum does, or just something that annoys me? Is it actually townie to do something that annoys me, given that avoiding annoying me has to be a priority for scum?” One thing my brother, who is a much bette me town player than I, has taught me is too look for scum inconsistencies rather than just actions than seem unhelpful.

In the next quote, you kind of jump to my defense when Joth gets a weird vibe from me. The point of contention here again is my prodding of you, where your defense of me is "I don't agree, I think the question was fine". Again, it almost feels like you're trying to make sure I *really* appreciate that gold star you're giving me for asking a good question.

Why should we join you?

I'm so glad you asked!

Because I am getting scum vibes off Galzria. Specifically, this post:

Well uh I think that's actually like x-1 what the hell

Unvote

Oh spare me the faux panicky unvoting when there's little real danger we'd exile MiX.

But also, this.

vote: Chairs

Robz - why did you make this post but not vote for Chairs?

Ok, now I'm having a hard time articulating why this is scummy. Basically, I think it's scummy to jump on someone else's case and then sort of softly egg that person on to back it up with a vote. Like he's impatient to get a wagon going.

I don't agree, I think the question was fine.

I do think Galz is behaving quite like he did last game as scum, mostly in terms of relatively being lurky, but it's kind of early to say so for sure.

And then we're getting into WIFOM territory, but doesn't scum!Galz switch it up and go for overactivity here?

Your very next post was to jump in and take my side of an argument and to vote against Swowl. This is probably the post that most directly comes across as buddying - the other two are more gut feels.

not  "vla"... but I will be out for like the next 24 hours.

I thought Galz was getting the better of swowl in their exchange, which culminated in swowl OMGUS voting for Galz, and then declaring a 24 hour partial VLA, which I read as I'm-taking-heat-gotta-get-out-of-here, and THAT is legitimately more likely to be scum behavior.
Vote: Swowl

--------------------

It's early days still. You don't have a ton of posts all told. Nobody really does (MiX, Pops maybe?). That's made it all the more striking to me though that I've gotten these vibes off so little.

I don't see how any of this is buddying.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #333 on: July 24, 2020, 11:25:13 pm »

Swowl did something legitimately scummy, or at least something I can identify as perhaps scummy, maybe? which is the best I can do for Day 1 at least. It's not buddying you to call this out, just because you happen to be the onus for swowl outing himself (if he is scum).
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #334 on: July 24, 2020, 11:27:15 pm »

So while I much on some popcorn and watch this Galz - Robz whatever it is...

Also, while you should very much enjoy your internet popcorn (or real popcorn is good too!), I want to make sure it's not unknown that the exchanges between Robz and I are very light hearted. Yes, I stand by my statements, and yes, he stands by his defenses and requests for me to show my work - but the back and forth's are very tongue in cheek. Not sure if it comes off that way to others or not.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #335 on: July 24, 2020, 11:28:54 pm »

So while I much on some popcorn and watch this Galz - Robz whatever it is...

Also, while you should very much enjoy your internet popcorn (or real popcorn is good too!), I want to make sure it's not unknown that the exchanges between Robz and I are very light hearted. Yes, I stand by my statements, and yes, he stands by his defenses and requests for me to show my work - but the back and forth's are very tongue in cheek. Not sure if it comes off that way to others or not.

That actually strikes me as an odd post from scola, in that it over explains an unvote that doesn't require explanation. Here I go, buddying you again...
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #336 on: July 24, 2020, 11:32:18 pm »

Swowl did something legitimately scummy, or at least something I can identify as perhaps scummy, maybe? which is the best I can do for Day 1 at least. It's not buddying you to call this out, just because you happen to be the onus for swowl outing himself (if he is scum).

I'm not saying you don't have a right to make reads - and sure, those reads could be based off interactions that I'm having, that result in you scum reading the person with whom I'm interacting. But they way you've presented it definitely came across as low-key buddying.

Either way, I'm not voting you at this time (and don't plan to anytime soon). It's a low-key gut D1 read. It pinged me, and there's definitely more than one post there to support that suspicion - but I don't think it's anywhere near as scummy as the things that Chairs have done.

Speaking of which, you all should join me on Chairs.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #337 on: July 24, 2020, 11:41:33 pm »

Happy birthday, Scola!!
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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #338 on: July 25, 2020, 12:16:52 am »

Happy birthday, Scola!!

Indeed! Congrats on another completed circuit around the nearest star! May you complete many more.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #339 on: July 25, 2020, 12:32:35 am »

Now, to make a point relating to two conversations: D1 and whether or not scumhunting and hitting scum D1 is very important or not as important for town to win and about fluffy/not helpful posting. I suspect that the most important part of the D1 exile (man that's hard to change that vocab, sorry when I inevitably miss it) is finding a high information exile, regardless of their alignment. I think it would ultimately work out better if you hit scum at equivalent to random chance D1 with high info exiles every time rather than hitting a low info scum D1 every game, whether low info means lurky or fluffy or hearthstony or whatever.  So at least D1, I don't think fluff or whatever label you want to use for not directly game related posts and conversations are a good basis for the day's exile, especially if the fluffy person doesn't have much else in the way of interactions or info that would help either connect them to scum or clear other town. However, on later days, that would be less true as letting scum hide behind that is obviously no good.

I disagree because you're now encouraging players of all alignments to be low information D1 since nobody wants to be the D1 exile.

I'm much more in favor of punishing -not- generating information, to force scum to generate information and not be floofy

Information doesn't solely come from what a person posts, it's also how other people react to them.

But yeah, at this point we are almost at a question of meta (site-wide more than individual). So a nearly universal truth: town wants to close the information gap that gives scum their advantage at the beginning of the game.

With your plan, if we routinely lynch low-info (aka fluffy) players D1, scum would make a habit of being more active/less fluffy. However, town won't be able to capitalize on that info D2 normally because scum wouldn't be the D1 exile very often. The active playstyle would then benefit scum more later in the game as well because it gives scum a chance to control the conversation and flow of info, thus further hurting town's chances.

If we exile high info players D1 and scum does as you say by being fluffy intentionally, they may not be the D1 exile, but they're play is not going to have them in a good position later as town is in a more controlling position of conversations and info flow. If scum then starts trying to be more active later, that inconsistency could be a good scum tell, thus helping town.

So yeah, I mean blanket statements can always be used/abused by good scum players, but I still think as a general principle, if two equally null reads are at X-1 at the deadline and I have to choose, I would choose high info wagon every time.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #340 on: July 25, 2020, 12:34:12 am »

I know how to use their, they're, and there, I just changed the direction a sentence was going and now I'm annoyed at myself lol.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

popsofctown

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #341 on: July 25, 2020, 12:43:27 am »

My favorite targets are ones who have been slightly scummy, and are also unlikely to post a lot on subsequent games and change my mind.   I don't know if this game has such a player
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #342 on: July 25, 2020, 02:54:53 am »

I'd also like Galz to respond to my swowl case.

I would like robz to answer my previous question regarding what your case is?

How about I’ll make it super simple - explain to me exactly what it is that you think i was making an excuse to leave the table from? Like not the general “3 post back and forth” between Galz and I. But what exact part of it do you think i would have enough of an issue with dealing with that i do what you say instead of not?
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #343 on: July 25, 2020, 07:16:30 am »

what is the chance that this Robz-Galz thing is town v town? what's the chance that it's scum v scum. These are good questions to ask.

The setup and combination of questions is better than what MiX asked regarding Me & Swowl.

Generally speaking, I hate X vs Y questions. They’re setup questions that frame two people in a “one must be scum” light with no real, honest reasoning being it. Town players disagree and debate far more often than town vs scum do. It’s much more townie and reasonable to ask “What’s your read on X”, and “What’s your read on Y”. Asking “What do you think of X vs Y” is just scummy.

Oh come on joth was scumreading both of them already get out of your high horse.

Swowl did something legitimately scummy, or at least something I can identify as perhaps scummy, maybe? which is the best I can do for Day 1 at least. It's not buddying you to call this out, just because you happen to be the onus for swowl outing himself (if he is scum).

I'm not saying you don't have a right to make reads - and sure, those reads could be based off interactions that I'm having, that result in you scum reading the person with whom I'm interacting. But they way you've presented it definitely came across as low-key buddying.

Either way, I'm not voting you at this time (and don't plan to anytime soon). It's a low-key gut D1 read. It pinged me, and there's definitely more than one post there to support that suspicion - but I don't think it's anywhere near as scummy as the things that Chairs have done.

Speaking of which, you all should join me on Chairs.

Hey why is chairs scum and why should everyone vote for them?
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EFHW

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #344 on: July 25, 2020, 09:27:17 am »

Wow, I missed a lot. I'll catch up now.
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EFHW

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #345 on: July 25, 2020, 09:56:33 am »

There is a scummy side to fluff posting. It's easy to do and making up posts with substance is hard as scum. It also breaks up discussions, making town efforts less effective. Last, it demonstrates a disengagement from town goals, which is very much a scum trait.
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #346 on: July 25, 2020, 09:59:07 am »

I think MiX is town here. I don't see how joth is scummy, though.
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EFHW

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #347 on: July 25, 2020, 10:00:46 am »

Other than my vote on pops, I'm going to keep scum glimmers to myself for now. See how they develop.
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EFHW

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  • EFHW="ee-foo". Really, how else would you say it?
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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #348 on: July 25, 2020, 10:01:28 am »

Dylan does feel like town!Dylan.
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MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #349 on: July 25, 2020, 10:16:03 am »

I think EFHW did the classical scum backread that she likes to do, but I also think she's town...

Dylan does feel like town!Dylan.

Does he? He seemed different to me.
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