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Author Topic: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (GAME OVER)  (Read 190640 times)

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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #900 on: August 04, 2020, 10:45:54 pm »

Yeah.

Vote: Galzria

considering he has done literally nothing day 2 that is a pretty significant and quick flip for you.

This is such an unintentionally hilarious statement. "Galz has contributed nothing of value whatsoever this day, how dare you vote for him!"

I mean, really this is the whole problem we are having, people are tending to just vote for the same small cluster of players, scrutinizing them over and over again, while generally little else is said or done.

I don't know if it's scummy to run interference for Galz here, but it's sure anti-town.

my point was based on I remember you town reading him yesterday. So now he has done nothing. and now you skum read him. So nothing changed. So why did your read change?

How is everyone?

I have not followed this game at all, so please give me a short breakdown of what happened so far.

The game has been approximately 78.4% wholly directed, in a very distracting way, by MiX, who has fought like bloody hell to not get lynched and evinced a forceful certainty about catching certain people as scum, mostly joth. The wagons yesterday were chairs, joth, and MiX. We X-1'd chairs, but his lack of claim and sort of indifference to being exiled prompted some people, notably me, to back off. Joth became the backup exile instead of MiX, somehow. Joth was town, it would not surprise me if MiX and chairs were as well, in fact I've sort of coming around to assuming that's the case.

Some people, I think basically EFHW and space, have gone after Isis (formerly pops) a whole lot, for "fluff posting", which I think is at least misguided on EFHW's part and actively bad on Space's part.

You (as LL) have lurked hardcore. I'm not sure if Dylan is lurking, they pop in from time to time. Scola is a big ? for me. Galz's play leaves something to be desired here, and over time has come to more closely resemble his scum play from last game.

I tried to get a case going against swowl, it was a fine case, why do we people even complain about my swowl case, that can't all be the best Day 1 case ever.
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Swowl

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #901 on: August 04, 2020, 10:56:26 pm »

Yeah.

Vote: Galzria

considering he has done literally nothing day 2 that is a pretty significant and quick flip for you.

This is such an unintentionally hilarious statement. "Galz has contributed nothing of value whatsoever this day, how dare you vote for him!"

I mean, really this is the whole problem we are having, people are tending to just vote for the same small cluster of players, scrutinizing them over and over again, while generally little else is said or done.

I don't know if it's scummy to run interference for Galz here, but it's sure anti-town.

my point was based on I remember you town reading him yesterday. So now he has done nothing. and now you skum read him. So nothing changed. So why did your read change?

How is everyone?

I have not followed this game at all, so please give me a short breakdown of what happened so far.

The game has been approximately 78.4% wholly directed, in a very distracting way, by MiX, who has fought like bloody hell to not get lynched and evinced a forceful certainty about catching certain people as scum, mostly joth. The wagons yesterday were chairs, joth, and MiX. We X-1'd chairs, but his lack of claim and sort of indifference to being exiled prompted some people, notably me, to back off. Joth became the backup exile instead of MiX, somehow. Joth was town, it would not surprise me if MiX and chairs were as well, in fact I've sort of coming around to assuming that's the case.

Some people, I think basically EFHW and space, have gone after Isis (formerly pops) a whole lot, for "fluff posting", which I think is at least misguided on EFHW's part and actively bad on Space's part.

You (as LL) have lurked hardcore. I'm not sure if Dylan is lurking, they pop in from time to time. Scola is a big ? for me. Galz's play leaves something to be desired here, and over time has come to more closely resemble his scum play from last game.

I tried to get a case going against swowl, it was a fine case, why do we people even complain about my swowl case, that can't all be the best Day 1 case ever.

bro you can pull all the quotes you want. You buddy'd the shit out of him all day 1.
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #902 on: August 04, 2020, 11:01:50 pm »

also the whole bit where I was skummy for going on VCA which would make it seeeeeem like you think Galz is towny.

Now, reads change, and that is fair. But then that is why I asked the question. What changed.

Actually yeah lets go with that - what has changed your read specifically to make galz skum from the time that he was not skum when you started the wagon on me Day 1?
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real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #903 on: August 05, 2020, 01:30:04 am »

Votes on me are bad.

Bad Robz. Bad Isis. Bad Chairs.

Well, Chairs gets off slightly based on my next point, but still.

There are 11 alive right now. 3 of those people are scum. 2 of those have claimed (or essentially claimed) VT. Assume for a moment that neither of them are scum.

That leaves 5 remaining players. In that grouping is a PR value of 6 points (if I'm understanding correctly - Groot was 2 points, and I think somebody said D1 that we had a town PR pool of 8 points?). That means there are at least 2 PR's in that group of 5. Scum know who each other are. They also know if Chairs/MiX are town. And if Chairs/MiX ARE town, then they absolutely want to try and get lynches going amongst the remaining town players.

In a "best" case scenario for scum here, with my exile, I claim/flip a PR. In a "worst" case scenario, with my exile, I claim/flip VT and their pool of players that could be a PR is reduced further. In either case, pushing my exile is a complete win for scum here.

------

But unlike scum, we do not know if MiX/Chairs are telling the truth here or not. I still think MiX was overall fairly townie at the end of the day yesterday, but YMMV. And sure, town cares more about potentially hitting scum than they do about  potentially hitting/outing a PR or not whittling down the potential PR pool for scum to shoot in.

But then my question to Robz/Isis (less so Chairs) is this:

If you're town, do you believe that I have a greater chance of flipping scum than MiX or Chairs? Does the fact that I have a much higher chance of being a PR than either MiX or Chairs play into your consideration at all?

And the question I have for Chairs is:

Do you believe that all three wagons at the end of day were on town, or do you think one of them was scum? If one of them was scum, it has to be MiX, right? Do you think the chances that I flip scum are greater than the chances that all three wagons yesterday were on town?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #904 on: August 05, 2020, 01:31:18 am »

Votes on me are bad.

Bad Robz. Bad Isis. Bad Chairs.

Well, Chairs gets off slightly based on my next point, but still.

There are 11 alive right now. 3 of those people are scum. 2 of those have claimed (or essentially claimed) VT. Assume for a moment that neither of them are scum.

That leaves 5 remaining players. In that grouping is a PR value of 6 points (if I'm understanding correctly - Groot was 2 points, and I think somebody said D1 that we had a town PR pool of 8 points?). That means there are at least 2 PR's in that group of 5. Scum know who each other are. They also know if Chairs/MiX are town. And if Chairs/MiX ARE town, then they absolutely want to try and get lynches going amongst the remaining town players.

In a "best" case scenario for scum here, with my exile, I claim/flip a PR. In a "worst" case scenario, with my exile, I claim/flip VT and their pool of players that could be a PR is reduced further. In either case, pushing my exile is a complete win for scum here.

------

But unlike scum, we do not know if MiX/Chairs are telling the truth here or not. I still think MiX was overall fairly townie at the end of the day yesterday, but YMMV. And sure, town cares more about potentially hitting scum than they do about  potentially hitting/outing a PR or not whittling down the potential PR pool for scum to shoot in.

But then my question to Robz/Isis (less so Chairs) is this:

If you're town, do you believe that I have a greater chance of flipping scum than MiX or Chairs? Does the fact that I have a much higher chance of being a PR than either MiX or Chairs play into your consideration at all?

And the question I have for Chairs is:

Do you believe that all three wagons at the end of day were on town, or do you think one of them was scum? If one of them was scum, it has to be MiX, right? Do you think the chances that I flip scum are greater than the chances that all three wagons yesterday were on town?

Apparently I'm bad at math. 11 minus 5 is 6, not 5.  ::)
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #905 on: August 05, 2020, 01:54:12 am »

This Galz wagon seems too sudden, and 2/3 of them (Robz and Isis) are the same people who were voting for me not long ago, along with Chairs.

I'm not ready to give up suspicion on the MiX/Chairs pairing.

Vote: Chairs
Hi!

I don't think sudden wagons are scummy, and this one isn't even particularly big.
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faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #906 on: August 05, 2020, 01:57:43 am »

Bad Robz. Bad Isis. Bad Chairs.
What about Dylan though? Is he not bad?
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Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #907 on: August 05, 2020, 02:01:31 am »

Bad Robz. Bad Isis. Bad Chairs.
What about Dylan though? Is he not bad?

Wow. I am just off. First my subtraction, and then this. I read Space's VC and just substituted Chairs for Dylan. No clue why.

Yes - same point as Robz/Isis - and I would like for him to answer the same question I posed to them.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #908 on: August 05, 2020, 02:05:33 am »

Vote: Robz

Throwing some votes around as requested.
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faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #909 on: August 05, 2020, 04:45:14 am »

I will say that the whole "the focus remains on MiX/chairs so they are likely both town" line of reasoning is pretty awful.

Like sure, that is an explanation. But also:

- if they're 1 scum/1 town - scum doesn't want to abandon the town wagon as that might lead to a situation where the scum is the only viable exile. So the focus remains there.
- if they're both scum - pretty likely that scum is bussing and if that's their strategy then there is no reason to give it up now.

So, this is to those supporting that theory: Start making better arguments.
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faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #910 on: August 05, 2020, 04:47:19 am »

2 of those have claimed (or essentially claimed) VT.
I saw MiX's VT claim. Is there one from chairs that I missed? Or is it just the fact that he didn't claim at X-1?
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Galzria

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #911 on: August 05, 2020, 07:29:13 am »

2 of those have claimed (or essentially claimed) VT.
I saw MiX's VT claim. Is there one from chairs that I missed? Or is it just the fact that he didn't claim at X-1?

He did not explicitly claim, no. But that’s the working consensus (right or wrong) given his post at X-1 with a decent chance he gets hammered (MiX not on his wagon at that time afterall).
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #912 on: August 05, 2020, 11:04:37 am »

also the whole bit where I was skummy for going on VCA which would make it seeeeeem like you think Galz is towny.

Now, reads change, and that is fair. But then that is why I asked the question. What changed.

Actually yeah lets go with that - what has changed your read specifically to make galz skum from the time that he was not skum when you started the wagon on me Day 1?

My god, that was a million years ago. What changed is that he's now lurking the way he did in the very last game as scum. And I didn't think he was "not scum" before, I just didn't have a particular scum read on him. It's Galz who advanced the narrative that I was buddying Galz, a town, read... wasn't actually reflective of reality.

And anyway, who cares? You are being really stubborn about this.
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faust

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #913 on: August 05, 2020, 11:53:46 am »

also the whole bit where I was skummy for going on VCA which would make it seeeeeem like you think Galz is towny.

Now, reads change, and that is fair. But then that is why I asked the question. What changed.

Actually yeah lets go with that - what has changed your read specifically to make galz skum from the time that he was not skum when you started the wagon on me Day 1?

My god, that was a million years ago. What changed is that he's now lurking the way he did in the very last game as scum. And I didn't think he was "not scum" before, I just didn't have a particular scum read on him. It's Galz who advanced the narrative that I was buddying Galz, a town, read... wasn't actually reflective of reality.

And anyway, who cares? You are being really stubborn about this.
Yep, who cares about holding people accountable for what they said before? What a silly concept.
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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #914 on: August 05, 2020, 12:01:41 pm »

Missed this:

But then my question to Robz/Isis (less so Chairs) is this:

If you're town, do you believe that I have a greater chance of flipping scum than MiX or Chairs? Does the fact that I have a much higher chance of being a PR than either MiX or Chairs play into your consideration at all?

And the question I have for Chairs is:

Do you believe that all three wagons at the end of day were on town, or do you think one of them was scum? If one of them was scum, it has to be MiX, right? Do you think the chances that I flip scum are greater than the chances that all three wagons yesterday were on town?

Yes, you have a greater chance of flipping scum than MiX or chairs.

You have a higher chance of being a PR, but this is true of everyone who isn't MiX or chairs. Are you saying we can only exile MiX or chairs?

I think all three wagons were on town, or possibly chairs is scum. I'm trying not to entirely discount the possibility that I just got fooled hard by him.

The chances you flip scum... are probably not as great as the chances all three wagons were town? But these things aren't in conflict. Both could be true, or false, or one true and the other false.
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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #915 on: August 05, 2020, 12:04:25 pm »

also the whole bit where I was skummy for going on VCA which would make it seeeeeem like you think Galz is towny.

Now, reads change, and that is fair. But then that is why I asked the question. What changed.

Actually yeah lets go with that - what has changed your read specifically to make galz skum from the time that he was not skum when you started the wagon on me Day 1?

My god, that was a million years ago. What changed is that he's now lurking the way he did in the very last game as scum. And I didn't think he was "not scum" before, I just didn't have a particular scum read on him. It's Galz who advanced the narrative that I was buddying Galz, a town, read... wasn't actually reflective of reality.

And anyway, who cares? You are being really stubborn about this.
Yep, who cares about holding people accountable for what they said before? What a silly concept.

Swowl is holding me accountable for a position I didn't take, his real problem with me is I dared to propose him as an alternative wagon yesterday.
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mail-mi

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (Night 0)
« Reply #916 on: August 05, 2020, 12:16:10 pm »

Vote Count 2.2

Isis (1): MiX
Robz888 (3): EFHW, scolapasta, faust
chairs (2): Swowl, SpaceAnemone
Galzria (4): Robz888, Isis, Dylan32, chairs

Not Voting (1): Galzria

With 11 alive it takes 6 to exile.

Day 2 lasts until 12:30AM FT on Saturday, August 8th, 2020.
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Dylan32

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #917 on: August 05, 2020, 12:30:05 pm »

To answer Galz's question for chairs but really me: No. I've been pretty clear MiX is my biggest scum read, but as people have made it abundantly clear (foolishly so imho), everyone (seemingly except faust) seems to want to look elsewhere. You were as good a target for a wagon as any of my non!MiX reads.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #918 on: August 05, 2020, 12:31:26 pm »

I didn't mean to say faust doesn't want to look elsewhere, just referring to his observation that the "we must have had 3 town wagons so we have to look elsewhere" logic is bad.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

MiX

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #919 on: August 05, 2020, 01:25:15 pm »

To answer Galz's question for chairs but really me: No. I've been pretty clear MiX is my biggest scum read, but as people have made it abundantly clear (foolishly so imho), everyone (seemingly except faust) seems to want to look elsewhere. You were as good a target for a wagon as any of my non!MiX reads.

What's your current read on me, chairs, galz, Isis, and what's your biggest townread?

Back on my PC (feels great), will do VCAs and a reread with it, surely D1 can be solved, and I don't think Galzria is the answer.
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Robz888

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #920 on: August 05, 2020, 02:05:18 pm »

To answer Galz's question for chairs but really me: No. I've been pretty clear MiX is my biggest scum read, but as people have made it abundantly clear (foolishly so imho), everyone (seemingly except faust) seems to want to look elsewhere. You were as good a target for a wagon as any of my non!MiX reads.

What's your current read on me, chairs, galz, Isis, and what's your biggest townread?

Back on my PC (feels great), will do VCAs and a reread with it, surely D1 can be solved, and I don't think Galzria is the answer.

What do you mean, D1 can be solved?
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EFHW

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #921 on: August 05, 2020, 02:49:52 pm »

unvote. Robz is seeming more town-oriented recently. I'm open to voting Galz or chairs. I would like them to answer my question from awhile back. I'll find it and post it next.
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EFHW

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #922 on: August 05, 2020, 02:50:57 pm »

Also Isis.

Here's a separate question. How come Galz and Isis were willing to exile MiX the first time he was at X-1 but not the second? Reverse question for Chairs.
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chairs

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #923 on: August 05, 2020, 03:16:54 pm »

I legitimately don't understand what you're asking me so you'll need to rephrase it as not "reverse question"

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Re: M129: Marvel Mafia 2 (D2)
« Reply #924 on: August 05, 2020, 03:17:50 pm »

Wait now I think I understand but I disagree with the premise.

I have never been unwilling to exile mix.
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