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[EFHW]

How does that help you?

[faust]

Doing D2 now.

Robz not taking that hammer is huh

Wondering what happened there.

This is a good obversation... that doesn't help EFHW, unfortunately. For why does scum!Robz forgo the hammer only to have his partner do it? It makes it more likely that scola is town.

Man, from the excitement of the last minute (second!) hammer to finding out Joth was town. Sorry all. Please, let's not do that again.

I'll likely going back to voting one of MiX or chairs. But want to review that end of day 1 for any shenanigans first.

Why? Why confine yourself to those?

Doesn't exactly read as partner interaction.

Robz, what is your alignment?

Pfft lame.

Keeping my suspicions to myself is just making me too quiet, so I'll share.  And likely regret it. But I completely agree with MiX's observations about Robz. These were the thoughts I wasn't mentioning.  Why did you back down so quickly, MiX?

Vote: Robz

I don't know, this is kinda good? Robz has bussed before though, so it could just be all-out bussing.

I think I'll join the

vote: Robz

crowd as the anti lurker who does seem to be trying to control the narrative.

Cool, well now everyone's here.

Some people, I think basically EFHW and space, have gone after Isis (formerly pops) a whole lot, for "fluff posting", which I think is at least misguided on EFHW's part and actively bad on Space's part.

You (as LL) have lurked hardcore. I'm not sure if Dylan is lurking, they pop in from time to time. Scola is a big ? for me.

Not all that helpful I guess. Neither of the reads is very pronounced.

Other: I don't love the galz wagon. I am still fine with Robz vote, but that doesn't seem to be getting any traction. So thought I'd throw out someone new. It comes from the discussion about scum daychat earlier - I believe it was Dylan that started suspecting lurkers, then in a later post, had something about me specifically  - "I didn't even realize he was in this game". And that just seemed off. While I haven't posted much in the past few days (I'll add an image of my poor car at the end of this), I don't fit in the lurker bucket.

Feels like if you wanted to bus it doesn't hurt to stay on your partner for a while longer.

Looks like I mostly missed math which is too dense (or I am too dense) for the moment.

vote: Galzria. I'm ridiculously tired right now, though. Might change my mind tomorrow.

EFHW also leaves Robz now. Did you have to do the same stuff all the time on D1? How is anyone supposed to get a read from that?

Ah Robz was voting there already though. So some townpoints are in order.

I am definitely gun shy about another last minute (second!) exile. So time to hop on a wagon...

Vote: chairs

(X-1)

This would be the second scum vote on the wagon. Not outlandish in this situation I suppose.

Uh, scola is incredibly townie for unvoting there. Unless chairs and scola are both scum and planned the X-1 and the claim, which does not seem likely.

I just doubt that Robz would hard townread scumpartner!scola on such a flimsy pretense.

End of D2 votes from EFHW/scola are about equally good. So not much to do there either. And that was D2.

[faust]

How does that help you?

Why don't you just trust that it does?

[EFHW]

1. I have already posted it. 2. You are acting very strangely for you.

[faust]

1. I have already posted it. 2. You are acting very strangely for you.

Is your intention to convince me you're town by being purposefully obnoxious? Because that's not working for me.

[EFHW]

Galzria (1): Dylan32,
MiX (3): Isis, scola, Space,
Robz888 (4): faust, Swowl, Galz, EFHW
Swowl (3): MiX, chairs, Robz888

This is the vc after I voted Robz the second time. If he was my partner, why would I bus? I have the MiX and Swowl wagons to choose from. I also don't have to move at all - town wagons are building just fine without me. It seems premature for scum!me to throw in the towel on Robz already.

A different point - I was on Isis all day 1, but when MiX tried very hard to to push an Isis wagon, I wasn't interested. Wouldn't scum!me take that opportunity, since I had the scumread already set up?

A third point - Swowl's vca made me look pretty good overall. Would I have questioned it so closely as scum?

faust also hasn't acknowledged that the narrative he is spinning is different from the one Swowl did. Swowl seems to have put a lot more thought into his vca than faust is. Not saying Swowl was right or wrong, but it's odd for faust to post these random scumtales when the narrative could so easily have been seen differently, and was.

PPE: I don't mean to be obnoxious. I am truly puzzled by your recent posts.

[EFHW]

The reason I was townreading you was your second vote on Robz. Also there was nothing scummy to attribute to you. I need some reason to vote.

[faust]

faust also hasn't acknowledged that the narrative he is spinning is different from the one Swowl did. Swowl seems to have put a lot more thought into his vca than faust is. Not saying Swowl was right or wrong, but it's odd for faust to post these random scumtales when the narrative could so easily have been seen differently, and was.

I'm not spinning any kind of narrative, I'm just rereading. I haven't read what Swowl posted in detail because I find Swowl's reading hard to parse. I will take a look though when I get there in my reread.

[faust]

faust also hasn't acknowledged that the narrative he is spinning is different from the one Swowl did. Swowl seems to have put a lot more thought into his vca than faust is. Not saying Swowl was right or wrong, but it's odd for faust to post these random scumtales when the narrative could so easily have been seen differently, and was.

I'm not spinning any kind of narrative, I'm just rereading. I haven't read what Swowl posted in detail because I find Swowl's reading writing hard to parse. I will take a look though when I get there in my reread.

EBWOP

[faust]

The reason I was townreading you was your second vote on Robz. Also there was nothing scummy to attribute to you. I need some reason to vote.

And that convinced you enough to bet the game on it?

[EFHW]

The reason I was townreading you was your second vote on Robz. Also there was nothing scummy to attribute to you. I need some reason to vote.

And that convinced you enough to bet the game on it?

I had no scum narrative on you. Maybe it was impetuous. I think I was swayed by Swowl's certainty as well. It was such a relief to find a reason to solidly townread him, even though it came too late to do much.

[EFHW]

I did a lot of my scumhunting Day 5, so I naively thought you would agree with me and the final exile would be straightforward!

[scolapasta]

Morning catch up - read though (skimmed the larger reread) posts. Will look in more detail later, but do want to respond to a few things:

So, here we are. It's reread time! At least you seem to have agreed to not exile me, so I don't need to spend time defending.

This is not exactly accurate, at least on my side. I started this day very unsure. I had assumed swowl would still be alive (as either scum!efhw NKs faust* or scum!faust NKs EFHW, and of course scum!swowl doesn't NK himself!), so was quite surprised to see it was the three of us still alive.

* note, that, I now realize why that would not have been a good NK for scum!efhw, see post #1644). There may be a similar type argument for scum!faust, haven't fully processed that yet.

But the quick and confident vote by EFHW also threw me off guard. Which is what made me go back and and look at VCAs with a scum!EFHW filter first. My plan was, and still is, to try to find some time to reread actual posts without any such filter.

faust has already started that, though of course could be coming in with a scum!faust bias. BUT, I will admit just your doing it makes me less suspicious of you.

scum!faust just needs one other person to vote, and it would be pretty easy to get EFHW to vote for me again:

PPE: I'm not trying to argue for anything. I'm telling you why I did what I did. I couldn't imagine a world where I would faust over you. I unvoted when you asked me to and I'm listening.

So why would scum!faust do all this rereading AND find "strongly favoring an EFHW exile over scola"? Why not just find any reason to vote for me and see if EFHW just follows suit?

(On a side note, I like faust as a verb there. )

The reason I was townreading you was your second vote on Robz. Also there was nothing scummy to attribute to you. I need some reason to vote.

And that convinced you enough to bet the game on it?

Exactly.


So yeah, that's where I'm at now. Before this morning, leaning towards EFHW, but wanting to reread. Now, strongly leaning towards EFHW - I think I'd need to find something damning to switch.

Will still find some time to look over fausts longer posts more closely / do my own reread.

ppe 2

[faust]

I did a lot of my scumhunting Day 5, so I naively thought you would agree with me and the final exile would be straightforward!

I'll get to Day 5 eventually. I didn't do much of anything then because I didn't see the point.

[EFHW]

Scum!faust would probably kill me or Swowl. I think he would ultimately choose Swowl because his IC status had strengthened and he would want both of the other players to be misexilable.

Scum!you would kill me or Swowl because we both were talking about voting you. And for the same reason I gave for faust.

Who would scum!me kill? Well, first of all I wouldn't have posted that Swowl had cleared himself. I'd want to keep everyone looking as scummy as possible. I probably wouldn't kill him and then I would use his surviving as an argument that he was scum. I'd probably kill faust as the more experienced player who would be harder to misexile and would be more likely to catch me.

[scolapasta]

Scum!faust would probably kill me or Swowl. I think he would ultimately choose Swowl because his IC status had strengthened and he would want both of the other players to be misexilable.

Scum!you would kill me or Swowl because we both were talking about voting you. And for the same reason I gave for faust.

Who would scum!me kill? Well, first of all I wouldn't have posted that Swowl had cleared himself. I'd want to keep everyone looking as scummy as possible. I probably wouldn't kill him and then I would use his surviving as an argument that he was scum. I'd probably kill faust as the more experienced player who would be harder to misexile and would be more likely to catch me.

You're making my point for me - if scum!faust and scum!me kill you or swowl, then faust lives. So scum!you killing faust would have been too obvious.

Scum!you would have had to go with swowl or me. But you knew swowl had faust as town, so killing me would be too risky.

So, sure swowl's death isn't a slam duck against you, as your other assertions are sound. But it definitely doesn't clear you, and the fact you chose to verbally clear swowl D5 just shows you could have thought this all out then and done that just so you could make this argument today.

tldr: swowl as the NK is mostly NAI, but it adds makes me wonder if your "clearing him" was planned towniness

[scolapasta]

FYI, I am back to Intent to vote EFHW.

The Mets play a double header tonight, so I hope to have some time during the games to do the reread I keep talking about. Unless I find some new evidence of anything then, expect my vote to come some time after.

[EFHW]

Scum!faust would probably kill me or Swowl. I think he would ultimately choose Swowl because his IC status had strengthened and he would want both of the other players to be misexilable.

Scum!you would kill me or Swowl because we both were talking about voting you. And for the same reason I gave for faust.

Who would scum!me kill? Well, first of all I wouldn't have posted that Swowl had cleared himself. I'd want to keep everyone looking as scummy as possible. I probably wouldn't kill him and then I would use his surviving as an argument that he was scum. I'd probably kill faust as the more experienced player who would be harder to misexile and would be more likely to catch me.

You're making my point for me - if scum!faust and scum!me kill you or swowl, then faust lives. So scum!you killing faust would have been too obvious.

Scum!you would have had to go with swowl or me. But you knew swowl had faust as town, so killing me would be too risky.

So, sure swowl's death isn't a slam duck against you, as your other assertions are sound. But it definitely doesn't clear you, and the fact you chose to verbally clear swowl D5 just shows you could have thought this all out then and done that just so you could make this argument today.

tldr: swowl as the NK is mostly NAI, but it adds makes me wonder if your "clearing him" was planned towniness

No, it was me feeling pulled in by Swowl's emotion and wanting him to know I had come around so he would feel understood. I was literally typing as I thought, which I do as town. Which I'm doing now! It was bad strategy as town  to let everyone know what I thought. But I had been criticizing him enough that when I found I could agree with him, I wanted to clear the air and repair things. It was such a long twilight, I thought the outcome of the day was still in play, which is why I unvoted.

The nk thing is WIFOM, of course. But often it's not worth sacrificing good strategy considerations in order to play with WIFOM, and I think this would have been one of those times.

I admire your persistence, and that along with faust's odd posts today have been creating doubt for me. Kind of sucks. I liked being sure better. Once I had figured out the Swowl puzzle, I wanted to be done.

[EFHW]

Scum!me killing faust wouldn't have been obvious. Scum!Swowl would do the same thing. Scum!you and scum!faust would want to eliminate the almost IC. But scum!me wouldn't have contributed to Swowl's IC'ness in the first place, so i could have made an argument that you would have nk'd faust as the least scummy player. A very safe nk choice for scum!me.

If I had made the argument supporting Swowl as scum, then I might have wanted to keep him alive to capitalize on my white knighting.

What do you think of how faust is posting today?

[EFHW]

Don't vote me yet. I'll do more research.

[scolapasta]

Scum!me killing faust wouldn't have been obvious. Scum!Swowl would do the same thing. Scum!you and scum!faust would want to eliminate the almost IC. But scum!me wouldn't have contributed to Swowl's IC'ness in the first place, so i could have made an argument that you would have nk'd faust as the least scummy player. A very safe nk choice for scum!me.

If I had made the argument supporting Swowl as scum, then I might have wanted to keep him alive to capitalize on my white knighting.

What do you think of how faust is posting today?

On the one hand you say scum!me would obvkill swowl, while on the other that you'd somehow be able to argue that I killed faust. I don't see how you have it both ways.

What do you think is weird about faust's postings?

[scolapasta]

Don't vote me yet. I'll do more research.

To be clear, the Mets games are from 17:00 to at least 23:00 FT, so I won't be making that vote anytime too soon.

[faust]

Let's go for D3. This should be quicker as two scum are dead now.

scolapasta starts with voting EFHW... clearly not very helpful. Though I find ignoring the MiX scum result a tad suspicious.

MiX (2): Isis, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (6): faust, Swowl, Galzria, EFHW, scolapasta, Dylan32
Swowl (3): MiX, chairs, Robz888

The vote count's right here. If you color it with what we know (chairs being IC) the only person that isn't colored and not on the Robz wagon is me.

OK, yeah, of course. Clearly, I knew that at some point, since she was just before my X-1 vote. It just didn't get into my notes. My bad.

OK, then:
Vote: MiX

Well, nevermind then.

Re: scola seeing the reasoning for voting me: I don't see the reasoning.  I'm the one who pushed Robz for much of yesterday. 

I'm pleased to see my plan to exile Space would have been appropriate. I think MiX is looking bad here, because of backing off Robz and pushing Isis (and joth). I do want to hear why faust thought Isis had a result, though, and why he believes that result.

Lots of posts still to catch up on.

This is quite a bit of boasting, especially since I haven't really heard of a plan to exile Space before.

vote: scolapasta.

POE mostly. On ISO he feels null. Complaining about his own participation a lot, which is potentially scummy. I am also considering Dylan, maybe faust. Not Galz or MiX. Not Swowl. And not chairs, obviously.

So EFHW is considering me as scum here, desptie the fact that everything that supposedly makes me so towny that she'd just open the Day voting scola already happened.

It's worthwile to point out that Galz, who died in the following Night, had EFHW as his top scumread.

Woah! I go away for a little to watch Colbert and all hell breaks lose.

Let's start with a quick

Unvote

well I mean just vote me or dylan though. town wins or game is washed. no reason to beat around.

I hear ya, but wtf?? I mean if I have to pick one? I guess
Vote: Dylan

That’s an auto win, yeah? Can’t be both? vote: Dylan

I'm pretty sure this was exile.

These are the reactions to Swan vs Dylan. scola actually comes with the hammer; EFHW is silent just until the hammer drops. EFHW is doing the scum thing here.

Why is MiX so quiet?

Dropping suspicion for the next Day.

At this point the only thing stopping me from voting EFHW is that I want to read what Swowl said.

[EFHW]

Scum!me killing faust wouldn't have been obvious. Scum!Swowl would do the same thing. Scum!you and scum!faust would want to eliminate the almost IC. But scum!me wouldn't have contributed to Swowl's IC'ness in the first place, so i could have made an argument that you would have nk'd faust as the least scummy player. A very safe nk choice for scum!me.

If I had made the argument supporting Swowl as scum, then I might have wanted to keep him alive to capitalize on my white knighting.

What do you think of how faust is posting today?

On the one hand you say scum!me would obvkill swowl, while on the other that you'd somehow be able to argue that I killed faust. I don't see how you have it both ways.

What do you think is weird about faust's postings?

In the second scenario,  I didn't claim to have cleared Swowl at the end of day 5.

faust is doing superficial one off analyses with no integration and without considering alternative scenarios. If he can spin it scummy, then he does. He says they are random quotes he came across, but then he says I am scum but he'll keep going for the sake of completeness.  He is relying heavily on the premise that scum avoid being on the same wagon. While that is sometimes true, he is overusing it. His tone is kind of flip.. None of this is characteristic of typical faust.

[EFHW]

Yeah, I guess we might have scum faust here after all. It kind of doesn't matter to him if I decide he's scummy, he just has to convince you.

Sorry I messed up the beginning of the day. I'll still iso him.