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[EFHW]

My reasoning was that I don't think you could persuade me to vote faust over you, so I might as well vote. I figured you would vote me and then faust would decide. But if you want to try, I'll listen.

[scolapasta]

He was the nk because he was town and I had decided for myself that he was town. So scum would have a better chance with him out of the way since I said I thought he had cleared himself.. I have a strong townread on faust, so that leaves you. You've played a great game, but I am voting for you anyway.  If it's faust, then he played a really great game.

How does my killing swowl make any sense, though? I get that you thought he had cleared himself, but I don't think that was the general consensus (though it turned out to be true, of course).

Did you clear him, then NK him so you could get some town cred?

And in what world, does swowl point out he has a meta for me, and then I try to use that meta in a case against him?  I mean I get that I'm still a novice player, but no way scumapasta* does that.

* some day we'll hopefully get to see how scumapasta actually plays...

There are just too many holes in the case against me.

But rather than have that discussion, you quick vote, in order to try to get the last misexile you need to win.

[EFHW]

Convince me why faust is scum.

[EFHW]

I don't get the meta argument.

[EFHW]

My plan today would be to reread early days with a new filter of possible scum suspects and see if I find something (I did in the just ended west world, and it was effective).

(this is why I now think scum you over faust; the quick vote here is so anti town)

Three person endgames can have early votes. It reflects my confidence in my choice.

[EFHW]

Swowl had expressed conviction that you are scum. You probably thought you had a better chance of painting me as scummy. You couldn't kill both of us.

[scolapasta]

OK, I don't have time for a full reread, I did review the VCAs, to see if I noticed anything.

Day 1: you voted once for Isis, then didn't move at all. Does town do that? I don't know, but still seems weird and when seen in the context that all the wagons were town wagons, definitely seems something scum might do to not create any "active" evidence against their votes.

Day 2: You voted Robz early. This could be early bussing. At soon as he gets to 3 votes, you leave (worried it might grow more?) and move to galz. You never vote chairs (more on that in a second) and eventually are the 4th vote on the final robz exile.

So, the no vote on chairs could just be a town read on your part, but if we look at you through a scum filter, it makes sense you would stay away from chairs and try to get a galz wagon (or other town). Chairs had gotten to x-1 the day before and not claimed, so it was assumed he was a VT. No reason for scum to push this particular wagon.

At the time of your 2nd vote on Robz, it was close to deadline. Scum was ahead (likely having already identified our top three PRs) and it was clear the Robz wagon was building. This actually feels like the perfect spot for scum to join the wagon (don't forget, you had daychat to plan this). At X-2, you have to assume someone will vote X-1, which:

• gave Robz time to prepare his claim as we now know you had this plan with the wrong numbers (which we also now know Robz and space did push during setup talk).
• allows the possibility to FoS the person (me!) who did vote X-1 as the one trying to force the claim

But here's where this all makes sense to me now -  this would finally explain the seconds between my X-1 vote and his claim - by having you vote at X-2, it gave him time to prepare (maybe even have it copied and ready to paste?) and rapidly respond.

I do think this is where you and Robz made a big mistake - clearly he had it loaded up to post rapidly, and wanted people to FoS me. But he posted too fast! No way scum!Robz and scumapasta don't realize that such a quick post after mine looks suspicious.  They (not "we" since I'm actually scolatowna) would know to wait longer, whereas I don't even know if it would occur to scum!EFHW and scum!Robz to consider the exact timing and be fine with just the quick paste and post. Or who knows, maybe the timing was especially on purpose in order to get the FoS. Either way, it worked, as Galz noticed the "clue" you left him.

Day 3: not as much here, except for the fact that I thought it was MiX who was trying to push the Dylan exile. His Dylan case worked perfectly in your favor, though, and you jumped right on it with the 2nd Dylan vote, and got the chaos you wanted once Galz asked his question.

Day 4 / Day 5 (these are now more from recent memory): now that you've sown the chaos, you seemed perfectly willing to sit back and wait, letting others make the strong cases against some town target, then jump on board. On Day 4, it was poor MiX, on Day 5, it was No Exile. It's clear that you wanted that and when I made a case against Swowl, you were able to use that to get the 2nd vote. (notice how after the final vote comes in, you then try to backtrack and "unvote" - I mean you have to have known the count was already 3 for no exile, as faust hadn't posted recently, and you were already the #2 vote). But scum!EFHW tries to get some quick town points. (which again points to why you would then NK Swowl last night, to come fill circle)

Now, I could vote for you since scum!faust already has a path to victory here, but on the off chance town you comes to your senses and unvotes, I don't want to give him a 2nd path to victory. So I will at least say Intent to vote EFHW.

But if I have more time I would also be happy to actually reread posts from the early days and try to see if I see anything else.

PPE 4

[scolapasta]

My plan today would be to reread early days with a new filter of possible scum suspects and see if I find something (I did in the just ended west world, and it was effective).

(this is why I now think scum you over faust; the quick vote here is so anti town)

Three person endgames can have early votes. It reflects my confidence in my choice.

Are you saying scum!you wouldn't also exude confidence and vote early?

[scolapasta]

I don't get the meta argument.

As I told you I knew it had something to do with that game, though not exactly. If I were scum, I would try to figure out what the meta was. and AVOID it at all costs! Making this case against swowl in that scenario would've been too risky.

There's so little benefit for scum!me to try to make a case on a probable IC there. If I really felt I had to make a case on someone, you or faust would've been much better targets.

[EFHW]

Days 1 and 2 I was stressed irl and lurked. Then I had vacation for two weeks, and I think your description of me as sitting back is inaccurate. 

I don't know why I left the Robz wagon. I think I must not have noticed faust's vote. I was surprised when I saw that in the vca. I would have been pleased to see faust on there. You leave out that I really pressed MiX on his backing off of Robz. Also that I resisted exiling MiX until there was too much to ignore making him look suspicious.  And I think it was the right thing to exile him there. The confusion caused by not knowing his alignment was bad for town. Second vote on Robz, I luckily checked in shortly after Galz's push for Robz. I jumped at the chance.

I never saw the case on chairs and considered scumreading people who said they did, but there were too many people to make distinctions that way.

Poor MiX? Really?

I never put much stock in the timing argument for that lynch. It isn't part of my scumreading you.

I did think Dylan could be scum. He didn't sound identified with town, as I said at the time.

I did mess up the no exile vote count. I even pm'd mail-mi to say he ended the day mistakenly!

[EFHW]

I need reasons to vote faust if you want to vote him. You aren't going to convince me that I am scum.

[EFHW]

*if you want me to vote him

[EFHW]

My plan today would be to reread early days with a new filter of possible scum suspects and see if I find something (I did in the just ended west world, and it was effective).

(this is why I now think scum you over faust; the quick vote here is so anti town)

Three person endgames can have early votes. It reflects my confidence in my choice.

Are you saying scum!you wouldn't also exude confidence and vote early?

I don't know.  I could alternatively make a show of being torn and indecisive. I could see it both ways. I'm just telling you why I voted early in this circumstance.

[EFHW]

I don't get the meta argument.

As I told you I knew it had something to do with that game, though not exactly. If I were scum, I would try to figure out what the meta was. and AVOID it at all costs! Making this case against swowl in that scenario would've been too risky.

There's so little benefit for scum!me to try to make a case on a probable IC there. If I really felt I had to make a case on someone, you or faust would've been much better targets.

Swowl was using the meta argument as part of his pretense that he was townreading you. Never lie as town, btw. It made him look really suspicious.

[scolapasta]

My plan today would be to reread early days with a new filter of possible scum suspects and see if I find something (I did in the just ended west world, and it was effective).

(this is why I now think scum you over faust; the quick vote here is so anti town)

Three person endgames can have early votes. It reflects my confidence in my choice.

Are you saying scum!you wouldn't also exude confidence and vote early?

I don't know.  I could alternatively make a show of being torn and indecisive. I could see it both ways. I'm just telling you why I voted early in this circumstance.

The point is I don't think you're selling your "confidence" well enough to justify the early vote. I mean, you've sown seeds of suspicions against me on past days, but never enough to push for my exile. But now suddenly on this last day, you're this confident? D4 and D5 EFHW would still be worried that scum!faust checks in tomorrow AM and wins the game. Of course scum!you doesn't have to worry about that.

[scolapasta]

I need reasons to vote faust if you want to vote him. You aren't going to convince me that I am scum.

Look, if you're town, obviously I want you to vote for faust. Then we win.

I also need reasons to vote faust, of course. That's why I expressed interest to reread the early days.

When I was looking at the VCA, I'll admit I did it with the "is EFHW scum" filter, because your early vote makes me think you must be scum. I know you're still trying to sell the "confident" argument, but I hope you can see (even if scum you won't admit) why I think it's weak.

[EFHW]

Also, don't forget that Space stayed on Isis with me for quite a while. Strange for two scum to hang out like that on a two person wagon. Makes sense though that they would vote with me for credibility. Or maybe they were just busy.

PPE: I'm not trying to argue for anything. I'm telling you why I did what I did. I couldn't imagine a world where I would faust over you. I unvoted when you asked me to and I'm listening.

[scolapasta]

Also, don't forget that Space stayed on Isis with me for quite a while. Strange for two scum to hang out like that on a two person wagon. Makes sense though that they would vote with me for credibility. Or maybe they were just busy.

Don't forget daychat. I feel daychat allows scum to make plays they wouldn't necessarily do in other games.

PPE: I'm not trying to argue for anything. I'm telling you why I did what I did. I couldn't imagine a world where I would faust over you. I unvoted when you asked me to and I'm listening.

I completely missed the unvote. Not sure if that makes you less or more scummy.

It's clear you currently think it's me. I currently think it's you. If you hadn't unvoted, I'd be sure. With the unvote, well that leaves some room for it to be faust. I'll take some time tomorrow to see if I can reread and see anything.

[scolapasta]

Ok unvote for the sake of discussion.

My reasoning was that I don't think you could persuade me to vote faust over you, so I might as well vote. I figured you would vote me and then faust would decide. But if you want to try, I'll listen.

OK, found the unvote. In the end, I think it's NAI, as both town you and scum you would do this.

[scolapasta]

Swowl had expressed conviction that you are scum. You probably thought you had a better chance of painting me as scummy. You couldn't kill both of us.

I think I figured out the one missing piece of the puzzle. Why would you NK Swowl?

Well let's look at the possibilities:

• NK me - you know swowl isn't voting faust, so he'll vote you. Which is easier, getting faust to vote swowl or you? No, NKing me loses you the game.

• NK faust - this makes the most sense for you, as both you and Swowl had made a case for me. Except, there's no way I would kill faust, for that exact same reason same reason. So if you kill faust, then suddenly, unless Swowl chooses to ignore the obvious, he has to know I'm not scum. And you had just "cleared him", so I think the harder sell would've been for you to convince me to vote swowl, then for swowl and I both vote you.

That leaves NK swowl. Here you just need to convince faust to vote me instead of you. And you can easier sell the scumapasta killing swowl story like you tried above.

This explains the last bit that was bugging me.

[faust]

So, here we are. It's reread time! At least you seem to have agreed to not exile me, so I don't need to spend time defending.

[faust]

I'm just gonna gather some random stuff in here for convenience as I reread.

D1 is the best day because you can just spout off whatever and it doesn't matter, because D1 scum hunting is pretty dumb unless scum make a big faux pas. I generally just vote based on who's annoyed me, a die roll, or because I'm cheerfully taking the piss.

faux again!

This joke goes back to Robz saying something about faux outrage and in that way shows that EFHW has an awareness of Robz's posts.

I don't know, I'm leaving this thread for a little and going to join in with joth.

Vote: galz

So like... that's the wagon Space is at right now. Maybe scola isn't aware? Regardless Galzria does not seem like a good person to antagonize.

I do think Galz is behaving quite like he did last game as scum, mostly in terms of relatively being lurky, but it's kind of early to say so for sure.

And this is Robz immediately after with a scumread on Galzria of his own. Doesn't seem smart for all the scum to go there.

Vote: popsofctown

vote: Pops. Constant refs to other game.

Now that's just funny.

Vote: Popsofctown

ok, and then Space is joining... maybe intense wagoning is just the playstyle scum decided to go for this game? If Space is part of the team, it certainly seems like they'd try to mess with wagon analysis.

Not at all convinced by the votes on pops. People who are extremely quiet shouldn't complain about him.

Ok, but maybe not all-out wagoning.

Y'all have convinced me to retract my pops vote.

Unvote

This seems non-strategic, I suppose.

Why do you think joth is scum?

Definitely a question scum wants to be asking right now.

Join us on Isis.

Maybe just reading too much into things right now, but EFHW calls Space and herself "us"; shows awareness of what scum is doing, again.

I was going to post a giant wall of re-read notes, but maybe just a summary is going to be less unwelcome, because it really was going to be a big wall, and I've only gotten as far as scolapasta in the sign-up order.

Anyway, summaries are:

1. Swowl -- townie. Worth remembering that later because he was even one of the players propagating the hearthstone content, so I guess I don't scumread that too badly.
2. Dylan32 -- solid meh. I know that MiX and some people I haven't yet re-read put him in the town camp, but I didn't get that vibe from him. I feel like a bunch of his posts seem to agree specifically with one side of an argument, and then another subsequent post goes back to agree a bit with the other side.
3. EFHW -- I think we ended up talking at cross-purposes bit in the thing where she disagreed with me at #156. I don't see how she gets to "I don't see how Joth is scummy" when an actual d1-case got made earlier, but I guess it's shorthand for just not buying into the case? She asks about the joth case at #351 so maybe she just missed it. Townier side of meh.
4. MiX -- 71 game posts, so this one was a slog. The game started at #28, and he already had a serious vote down in #45, which is early. I have to say, I strongly disagree with his criticism about quoting, because there are several occasions where even reading up and down a few posts, it's really hard to piece together what he's on about. See for example post #192, where I think it's just referring to the post above, but it's trying to be clever and twist the meaning by taking something Joth said about himself and pretending it was applied to himself, so there's quite a bit degree of uncertainty/deniability around what he really means to say, which I guess I don't like, in the sense of disliking things that are unclear, rather than in the sense of definitely thinking it's scummy. he's got a weird query to me at #280 about Swowl's vote, after I'd made a comment about Pops/Isis's vote. I feel like he's reading a parallel-but-different version of the thread I'm in sometimes.
5. Scolapasta -- seems a bit like a quieter version of MiX. He jumps in with a comment on Joth right off the bat, though it's after MiX originally dropped his vote there. Swings to Galz for no reason I saw coming. I think #268 is agreeing that off-topic-posting is often scummy, but the phrasing leaves room for misinterpretation like some of MiX's stuff too. Unclear why he moves to Chairs rather than Joth if he's actually following along with MiX, though.

That's still quite a wall, even in abstracted form. Anyway, not sure I'm seeing any obvscum here, though I'm not sure I expect to on a d1, especially if even Isis is resigning to the fact that MiX may get his way with his proposed exile-pool (expool? spool?), none of whom is in that top group of people anyway. I'll try to iso the rest tomorrow, since I've just noticed that the day after that is the d1 deadline.

PPE ~4-9, depending on how I count it.

Space reads end with a mild townread on EFHW and a nothingread on scola. I think Space would push themselves to have a read on a partner. Probably.

Swowl would probably be my first choice, still.

What is the chairs case?

Don't want to lynch isis.

If scola is scum: Robz is inquiring about a wagon with a partner on it and dismissing another wagon with a partner on it.
If EFHW is scum: Robz is inquiring about an all-town wagon and dismissing an all-scum wagon.

Vote: chairs

Robz votes chairs as joth/chairs are both at 4 votes. And the chairs wagon had scola on it while joth is all-town. But I guess Robz had already committed to townreading joth. still, he could have just stayed off both. But it's also close to deadline. Overall it's a solid meh.

We get a pop-up MiX wagon.

Dylan, LaLight (i.e. me), joth then Robz.

joth's summary of MiX's stances toward chairs shows the exact mix (haha) of attitudes he is showing now. I was reading MiX as very towny. Until he voted chairs to please joth, his biggest scum read. This chairs wagon feels very scummy to me and I won't be joining it.  I'm thinking the chairs voters are my X-pool.

hum dum. If EFHW's town - good instincts, that wagon had 2 scum on it. if scum - convenient.

Vote: Chairs for the time being. Could be persuaded onto MiX, I think, after the no-hammer stuff.

And here again - Space is voting chairs who has already been pushed by both partners (if scola's the scum).

I still don't buy that Mix was afraid to hammer one of his scum reads.

Vote: MiX

should be X-1

ppe 2-3

Then got this, and again MiX would have been shaded by all the scum if scola's scum.

Here's a Space Count:

Isis (3): EFHW, MiX, WestCoastDidds
jotheonah (3): Chairs, Swowl, Galzria
MiX (5): Dylan32, LaLight, Robz888, scolapasta, jotheonah
Chairs (2): SpaceAnemone, Isis

I feel like jumping to an Isis wagon was great back when I did it, as a protest over her flooding the thread with junk and diluting the game, but for people to jump on now does seem like a last-ditch attempt to steer away from existing wagons, so I feel like I should be moving to MiX or Joth. I haven't re-read the latter, so that's next up for me.

"I feel like voting Isis was great when we did it for distancing between me/EFHW, but if she actually gets exiled it will look bad for us so I won't go there."

I guess what I mean is intent to hammer, assuming my VC is right.

PPE: 1. Huh.. anyone townie online and have comments on that claim?

If scola is the scum, then Space is declaring intent to hammer a wagon with all the scum on it.

Vote: joth

Last-minute hammer which would not have been needed.

And that's D1 done. So right now I'm at... strongly favoring an EFHW exile over scola. But I'm a completionist; I'll reread everything.

[faust]

Also, off-topic but... I like the narrative in this game better than in all the superhero movies: The superheros fought valiantly but all died in the process, and in the grand finale the people on the sidelines have to step up and take matters into their own hands!

[EFHW]

Are you suggesting you didn't come into the day with ideas already? This analysis is nothing but who voted with whom, which has been posted about multiple times already and isn't a great way to scumhunt anyway. This is not what I was expecting from you.

[faust]

Are you suggesting you didn't come into the day with ideas already? This analysis is nothing but who voted with whom, which has been posted about multiple times already and isn't a great way to scumhunt anyway. This is not what I was expecting from you.

If you want to help me you can explain why you were so sure that I'm town.