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Author Topic: Sometimes you don't need to trash right away  (Read 330 times)

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Titandrake

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Sometimes you don't need to trash right away
« on: June 22, 2020, 03:51:41 pm »
+5

Trashing is good, thinning is winning, so on and so forth. But why is thinning winning?

Well, thinning is winning because it lets you get rid of bad cards, and it makes you more likely to collide Action cards together to draw your deck. Usually, that makes up the tempo loss you get from trashing cards early. Thinning, by itself, is not intrinsically valuable - it is a means towards the end of drawing your deck, gaining lots of cards, and producing lots of money.

Let's suppose we waved a magic wand, and could guarantee that we draw our deck every turn. Then what is trashing doing for us? Pretty much nothing. In fact, it's actually bad, because you don't get the money from the Coppers you trashed. Of course, most games are not like this - you need the trashing to get to the "draw your deck" phase in the first place, or you get to "draw your deck" faster by trashing.

But, there are the rare games (think Wharf engines) where the draw is so potent that you can start drawing your deck without trashing very heavily in the early game. In those cases, it can be better to trash less aggressively early. That way, you have the money to buy the draw cards like Wharf. Once you have the draw set up, you can catch up on trashing later - if you draw your deck then you can play your trasher every turn and your deck should clean up pretty quickly from there.

Trashing almost always comes with a short-term tempo loss (except for Masquerade, because Masquerade's busted). It's just that usually the tempo loss is small enough that it makes up for itself super fast and you don't care. Sometimes, you do.
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segura

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Re: Sometimes you don't need to trash right away
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 04:13:23 pm »
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Drawing and sifting are always partial substitutes for trashing, i.e. the presence and strength of drawers and sifters in a Kingdom decreases the relative strength of trashers.
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Titandrake

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Re: Sometimes you don't need to trash right away
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2020, 05:17:00 pm »
+1

Drawing and sifting are always partial substitutes for trashing, i.e. the presence and strength of drawers and sifters in a Kingdom decreases the relative strength of trashers.

Eh, it's true that trashers are relatively weaker in that example, but Dominion is about finding the best thing in each Kingdom. If trashers are still the best thing to do, then you should do it, even if the alternatives are almost as good.
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segura

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Re: Sometimes you don't need to trash right away
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2020, 05:35:11 pm »
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It is not a binary but a tempo issue. Of course you should always trash but in the presence of sifters and drawers, you should trash slower than in their absence. It is elementary and more or less what you said in the article.
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