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Author Topic: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (GAME OVER)  (Read 179288 times)

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scolapasta

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1850 on: August 19, 2020, 02:25:02 pm »

People keep using this argument of "well if scum can't hill humans, how can scum win? So let's exile humans." Um, that's exactly how scum win, by making us paranoid and having us exile our own!

I'm no longer quite so sure this is true (want to think about this traitor thing), but people need to stop discounting this possibility.

This is the first time I've played an archtype game, but someone else pointed out that he had a game with a ninja but no tracker (or something like that). So we know he likes tricky designs.
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1851 on: August 19, 2020, 02:26:07 pm »

i know flavor arguments are the worst, but the word relatively really makes me sure

Sure?

I'm ok with the argument that flavor could help figure out alignment, but I don't see why these three would seem so obvious? Flavor wise, I'd think, for example, that Teddy and Dolores could be on the same team.

Why these three?

SPOILER ALERT

Teddy and Clementine are the least selfaware of a bunch. Dolores and Maeve are, for example. And Ford is a puppeteer

MORE SPOILERS

I mean Bernard is even more self aware, no? And wouldn't you think less self aware is more likely town and more self aware scum?
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LaLight

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1852 on: August 19, 2020, 02:27:09 pm »

i know flavor arguments are the worst, but the word relatively really makes me sure

Sure?

I'm ok with the argument that flavor could help figure out alignment, but I don't see why these three would seem so obvious? Flavor wise, I'd think, for example, that Teddy and Dolores could be on the same team.

Why these three?

SPOILER ALERT

Teddy and Clementine are the least selfaware of a bunch. Dolores and Maeve are, for example. And Ford is a puppeteer

MORE SPOILERS

I mean Bernard is even more self aware, no? And wouldn't you think less self aware is more likely town and more self aware scum?

yeah, but the point is that self aware hosts are town and Ford controls those who are not
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LaLight

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1853 on: August 19, 2020, 02:28:21 pm »

People keep using this argument of "well if scum can't hill humans, how can scum win? So let's exile humans." Um, that's exactly how scum win, by making us paranoid and having us exile our own!

I'm no longer quite so sure this is true (want to think about this traitor thing), but people need to stop discounting this possibility.

This is the first time I've played an archtype game, but someone else pointed out that he had a game with a ninja but no tracker (or something like that). So we know he likes tricky designs.

and here we have the problem of not knowing scum wincon, so we can't just exile all hosts, as one should be alive for the town wincon. maybe scum wincon is "when no town hosts are alive" not regarding any maintenance shenanigans
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1854 on: August 19, 2020, 02:28:37 pm »

that's why we can't just exile all hosts
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MiX

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1855 on: August 19, 2020, 02:33:20 pm »

People keep using this argument of "well if scum can't hill humans, how can scum win? So let's exile humans." Um, that's exactly how scum win, by making us paranoid and having us exile our own!

I'm no longer quite so sure this is true (want to think about this traitor thing), but people need to stop discounting this possibility.

This is the first time I've played an archtype game, but someone else pointed out that he had a game with a ninja but no tracker (or something like that). So we know he likes tricky designs.

If all scum are hosts, then why would joth suicide?


Okay, I think I have a plan.

Vote: mail-mi

Didds, you need to redirect either scola or me, to someone that is dead. Be as unpredictable as you can, but basically your first target has to be (scola/MiX) and the second (ADK/Awaclus/joth). You can choose within this pool however you like. This should ensure maximum winrate.

Who here doubts scola's a host? If he is, then my plan is the best thus far.
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MiX

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1856 on: August 19, 2020, 02:34:03 pm »

I'm sure somewhere, somehow, raerae hates my guts.

I feel like this needs to be pointed out.
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1857 on: August 19, 2020, 02:38:05 pm »

i think he's a host, and if the game isn't over after mail-mi's exile, he's the most probable candidate to be the last scum
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MiX

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1858 on: August 19, 2020, 02:39:38 pm »

i think he's a host, and if the game isn't over after mail-mi's exile, he's the most probable candidate to be the last scum

Well, you are, but yes.
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1859 on: August 19, 2020, 02:46:45 pm »

the fact that mail-mi didn't claim one of his powers, has perfect role for a traitor and is a perfect flavor sense to be a traitor is enough to believe me, is it not?

I will respond to each of these arguments in turn.

1. Of course I didn't claim one of my powers. Why would I ever claim that power without someone outing me (aka you)? That power is something I really didn't want scum to know and town could live without knowing.

2. So here's the thing. I cannot message dead players. A player has to be alive for me to message them. What use is that for being able to contact my theoretical dead scumbuddies? Also, why would a traitor have an ability to resurrect only a town host?

3. Flavor arguments are not valid.
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LaLight

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1860 on: August 19, 2020, 02:48:19 pm »

you can maintenance scum just like everybody else
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1861 on: August 19, 2020, 02:48:46 pm »

if someone is outed as scum you can message them so they will target you for maintenance
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MiX

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1862 on: August 19, 2020, 02:49:22 pm »

the fact that mail-mi didn't claim one of his powers, has perfect role for a traitor and is a perfect flavor sense to be a traitor is enough to believe me, is it not?

I will respond to each of these arguments in turn.

1. Of course I didn't claim one of my powers. Why would I ever claim that power without someone outing me (aka you)? That power is something I really didn't want scum to know and town could live without knowing.

2. So here's the thing. I cannot message dead players. A player has to be alive for me to message them. What use is that for being able to contact my theoretical dead scumbuddies? Also, why would a traitor have an ability to resurrect only a town host?

3. Flavor arguments are not valid.

1. We should've actually done fullclaims. I was too stubborn, apologies for that. But if you knew that scum hosts couldn't kill humans, why wouldn't you say so? That way if you're killed we would know there's a scum human.

2. Well you would've known joth's scum when you failed to rez them. You can only rez town hosts because you can Maintenance the others.

3. Yes.

you can maintenance scum just like everybody else

See?

if someone is outed as scum you can message them so they will target you for maintenance

But this didn't happen, clearly. What's your explanation for this?
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LaLight

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1863 on: August 19, 2020, 02:50:27 pm »

the only explanation i have is that messaging is tied with roleblocking which mail-mi wouldn't want to happen to nightkill
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1864 on: August 19, 2020, 02:51:15 pm »

Also, let's not forget that LaLight has a perfect a) third party role (perhaps all scum are hosts and he's a third party that is considered a "thread to town"), or b) if he's scum, he has a rolecop right there.

"But mail-mi," LaLight says, "why was the first power I had to find of my partner?" Because it's a gambit. You already knew your partner's power, so you claimed that it's the first one you needed to find for distancing and cover purposes. Or maybe it was a gimme. I don't know the game design.

Point is, arguing mechanics is not convincing--especially since LaLight seems to be ignoring the parts of my role that are definitely town-aligned (read: resurrecting only townies).
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

mail-mi

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1865 on: August 19, 2020, 02:52:54 pm »

the fact that mail-mi didn't claim one of his powers, has perfect role for a traitor and is a perfect flavor sense to be a traitor is enough to believe me, is it not?

I will respond to each of these arguments in turn.

1. Of course I didn't claim one of my powers. Why would I ever claim that power without someone outing me (aka you)? That power is something I really didn't want scum to know and town could live without knowing.

2. So here's the thing. I cannot message dead players. A player has to be alive for me to message them. What use is that for being able to contact my theoretical dead scumbuddies? Also, why would a traitor have an ability to resurrect only a town host?

3. Flavor arguments are not valid.

1. We should've actually done fullclaims. I was too stubborn, apologies for that. But if you knew that scum hosts couldn't kill humans, why wouldn't you say so? That way if you're killed we would know there's a scum human.

2. Well you would've known joth's scum when you failed to rez them. You can only rez town hosts because you can Maintenance the others.

3. Yes.

I am confused by your arguments against my points and don't understand what you're trying to say.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

mail-mi

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1866 on: August 19, 2020, 02:53:19 pm »

if someone is outed as scum you can message them so they will target you for maintenance

And so why didn't I do that?
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

mail-mi

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1867 on: August 19, 2020, 02:55:00 pm »

if someone is outed as scum you can message them so they will target you for maintenance

And so why didn't I do that?

Let's look at the traitor!mail-mi scenario. Joth is rezzed by swowl. Since he wasn't rezzed by me, I know that he's scum. In what world do I not message joth and say "hey, I'm the human traitor, when you die again, maintenance with me."? Answer: in this world. because I'm not a traitor.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1868 on: August 19, 2020, 02:57:33 pm »

In any case, I don't actually know if LaLight is human scum, a third party, or misguided town. What I do know is that scola has been blocked the past 2 nights, and there haven't been nightkills the past two nights.

Vote: scolapasta if I wasn't already.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

MiX

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1869 on: August 19, 2020, 02:58:22 pm »

In any case, I don't actually know if LaLight is human scum, a third party, or misguided town. What I do know is that scola has been blocked the past 2 nights, and there haven't been nightkills the past two nights.

Vote: scolapasta if I wasn't already.

If we kill you and scola's scum, we win.
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1870 on: August 19, 2020, 02:59:18 pm »

here's the point for scum!scola. Arch is known for excluding main characters and give them as fakeclaims to people
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1871 on: August 19, 2020, 03:00:31 pm »

In any case, I don't actually know if LaLight is human scum, a third party, or misguided town. What I do know is that scola has been blocked the past 2 nights, and there haven't been nightkills the past two nights.

Vote: scolapasta if I wasn't already.

If we kill you and scola's scum, we win.

how so?
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1872 on: August 19, 2020, 03:02:39 pm »

In any case, I don't actually know if LaLight is human scum, a third party, or misguided town. What I do know is that scola has been blocked the past 2 nights, and there haven't been nightkills the past two nights.

Vote: scolapasta if I wasn't already.

If we kill you and scola's scum, we win.

how so?

he assumes scola is host
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MiX

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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1873 on: August 19, 2020, 03:02:52 pm »

In any case, I don't actually know if LaLight is human scum, a third party, or misguided town. What I do know is that scola has been blocked the past 2 nights, and there haven't been nightkills the past two nights.

Vote: scolapasta if I wasn't already.

If we kill you and scola's scum, we win.

how so?

Not so, nevermind.

We have so much power, yet there's like no ways of knowing who's scum.
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Re: RMM57: Westworld Mafia (Day 7)
« Reply #1874 on: August 19, 2020, 03:03:58 pm »

here's the point for scum!scola. Arch is known for excluding main characters and give them as fakeclaims to people

Really? I'll admit that's. smart design. But I had no way of knowing that - well, except for going back and reading old games, but if you believe anything I say, know that I'm not *that* invested in these games.

Care to point me to any?
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