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FishingVillage

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Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« on: March 23, 2012, 05:28:00 am »
+1

This fan expansion is a collection of cards that I thought would be fun to play around with. For the most part I tried using verbiage that already exists in Dominion when designing the cards, but I did have to get a bit wordy in some cases (and I think I introduced maybe one or two unofficial terms).

Feedback and criticism would be great! The most up to date formats of the cards can be found in the doc linked below, but I've also posted the list here for easier quoting.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zADmxoJx5xbjOxG2W96IIxIcKlwO6aEShG1UN7eEbZ8/edit

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Orator $0
Action

+2 Actions

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Telescope $2
Action - Reaction

+1 Action

Look at the top 5 cards of your deck, then put them back in any order.
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, draw until you have 8 cards in hand, then put cards from your hand on top of your deck until you have 5 cards in hand.

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Replace $2
Action

+1 Action

Reveal a card from your hand. Return it from your hand to the Supply. Gain a card with the same cost; put it in your hand.

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Drunkard $2
Action - Attack

Each player (including you) reveals the bottom card of his deck and either discards it or puts it on top, your choice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luxury Tax $2
Action

+$2

Trash this. Put a Tax token on top of a Supply pile.

Each card cost $1 more per Tax token on its pile.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aerial Crank $3
Action - Reaction

Choose one: +3 Actions; or +1 Action and +2 Buys.

When you discard this from play, you may put it anywhere in your deck.
______________________________

When you discard this other than during a Clean-Up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, set this aside, then at the start of your next turn, put it in your hand.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saloon $3
Action

+$1

Discard any number of Action cards from your hand. +$2 per Action card discarded.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gate Watcher $3
Action - Reaction

+1 Action

You may reveal a card from your hand. If you do, return it to the Supply.

Each other player reveals his hand. For each Attack card revealed, +1 Card.
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this. If you do, you may reveal a card from your hand. Return the revealed card to the Supply or put it on the top or bottom of your deck.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Philanthropist $3
Action

+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1

Each other player draws a card.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Runaway Train $3
Action - Attack

Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. For each card he discarded from hand, he discards that many cards from the top of his deck.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scoundrels $3
Action - Attack

Reveal a card from your hand. Each other player discards a copy of that card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no copy of that card).

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Reassemble $3
Action

Reveal any number of Reassemble cards from your hand, then trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more per revealed card than the trashed card.

/******
Such awkward wording :(

Example 1:
- I play Reassemble
- I reveal 3 Reassembles from my hand
- I trash a Curse from my hand
- I gain a Silver ($1 per Reassemble revealed, and since I revealed 3 I can gain something costing up to $3)

Example 2:
- I play Reassemble
- I reveal 2 Reassembles from my hand
- I trash a Reassemble from my hand (can be any one I revealed)
- I gain a Duchy
******/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assistant $4
Action

+1 Card, +1 Action

Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Copper card. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.

Play any number of Treasure cards from your hand.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aerial Freighter $4
Action

Choose one: +2 Cards or +$2.

When you discard this from play, you may put it anywhere in your deck.

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Prospector $4
Action - Attack

Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck. If they revealed any any Treasure cards, you play one of them of your choice. They discard the other revealed cards. Any treasure cards you play this way are set aside and returned to their owners’ discard piles at end of turn.

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Outlaw $4
Action - Reaction

While this is in play, when you would gain a card, you may immediately discard this. If you do, each other player gains a copy of that card instead.
______________________________

When another player uses a Reaction card, you may discard this. If you do, that Reaction card is immediately discarded and has no effect.

/******
This guy likes to break the rules!

The wording should allow your Outlaw to fizzle other Reaction cards like Moat or Secret Chamber, but should also allow other players to use Outlaw to shoot your Outlaw! The only problem I have is with Outlaw shooting Reaction cards during another player’s turn for things like +2 Cards (Moat) or drawing up to 6 cards in hand (Watchtower), which isn’t intended. I would think that playing a Moat for cards counts as playing an Action card, not as using a Reaction card, but I am unaware of any verbiage which singles out Reactions. There is verbiage for singling out Attack cards, which is what I base Outlaw off of.

“Using” a Reaction card is when a player is doing something with the bottom half of a Reaction card. It has nothing to do with buying or gaining the card, or using the card as an Action card for its top half. There isn’t a defined term for this, so unfortunately I don’t have any way to explain it cleanly.
******/

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Squatter $4
Action

+1 Buy, +$2

If you gain this, set aside another copy of this from the Supply. At the start of Clean-up this turn, put that copy into your discard pile.

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Demolition Team $4
Action - Reaction

Reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Trash any number of them, then discard the rest.
______________________________

When this is trashed, each player trashes a card from his hand.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gas Geyser $4
Action - Attack

You may discard 2 cards. If you discard 2 or more cards this way, each other player gains a Curse card, putting it on top of his deck.

Each other player discards his hand, then draws 4 cards.

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Wayward Wanderer $5
Action

+4 Cards
______________________________

In games using this, during your Action phase, you may discard four Victory cards from your hand. If you do, reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Wayward Wanderer card. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steam Locomotive $5
Action

+1 Action

Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Put them back on top of your deck in any order.

Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

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Femme Fatale $5
Action - Attack

+1 Card, +1 Action

Discard a card. If you do, each other player discards an Action card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no Action cards).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Counterfeiters $5
Action - Attack

Draw until you have 5 cards in hand. For each card you draw, +$1 and each other player gains a Copper.

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Impulsive Inventor $5
Action

+1 Action

Trash an Action card from your hand. Gain an Action card costing up to $2 more; put it into your hand.

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Mad Mechanic $6
Action

Choose three: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. (Each choice can be picked more than once.)

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Drilling Machine $6
Action

Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a card that costs $5 or more. Discard that card and put the other revealed cards into your hand.

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Diplomat $6
Action

+3 Cards

Reveal any number of cards from your hand. Return the revealed cards to the Supply.

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Mastermind $6
Action - Attack

+1 Action

Each player (including you) reveals the top 10 cards of his deck, then puts them back on top of his deck in any order you choose.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aerial Legion $7
Action - Attack

Each other player reveals his hand and discards a card of your choice from his hand.

When you discard this from play, you may put it anywhere in your deck.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gracious Charity $0
Treasure

$2

When you discard this from play, return it to the Supply.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blood Money $5*
Treasure

$1

When you play this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$2.
______________________________

During your Buy phase, this costs $2 less per Attack card you have in play, but no less than $0.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buried Ore $5
Treasure

$3
______________________________

In games using this, before you shuffle, look through your discard pile, reveal all Buried Ore cards and 2 other cards per Buried Ore and set them aside. Shuffle your discard pile into your deck, then put the set aside cards at the bottom of your deck in any order.

/******
Arrrrrrr. So wordy :(

Basically buries itself and 2 cards each at the bottom of your deck whenever you reshuffle.
******/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tenant Housing $0
Victory

1VP

When you gain this, return a card from your hand to the Supply.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blue Blood $4
Victory - Reaction

Worth 1VP for every 3 Reaction cards in your deck (rounded down).
______________________________

When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return that card to the Supply or put it anywhere in your deck.

When you discard this other than during a Clean-Up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, +1 Card and +1 Action.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frontier $5
Action

2VP

If you gain this, set aside another copy of this from the Supply. At the start of Clean-up this turn, put that copy into your discard pile.

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Land’s End $6
Victory

1VP

Worth an additional 2VP for each empty Supply pile.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 03:44:52 pm by FishingVillage »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 12:43:06 pm »
+1

I like Drunkard. I had a similar idea in another thread:
Dweller
Action/Attack
Cost: 3
Each player (including you) reveals the bottom card of their deck. He either puts it on top of his deck or discards it; your choice.
Then, +1 Card, +1 Coin

Some of your attacks like runaway train would benefit from having some arbitrary bonus to the player, otherwise it falls into the same problem as saboteur.

Drilling machine is great for seeming extremely overpowered until you think about it, but still not being weak. I love cards like that.

Also why not add "trash a card from your hand" to the options for mad mechanic. I think it's great for the theme and doesn't break the card.

I don't know enough about high level strategy to say much more.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 01:53:13 pm »
0

It would be nice if you could post the cards in this thread, for easier quoting, etc.
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FishingVillage

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 02:02:08 pm »
0

Hmm... well I'm more likely to go back and edit the doc from time to time, and I'd rather not let the first post be a massive wall of text if I can help it.

But good point about the quoting thing, guess I'll edit them in to the first post sometime.
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Tejayes

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 02:42:12 pm »
+1

Ah, the second person to steal implement my Repairs card, sans the "or less than," in their own fan expansion. Even if I did overprice it initially, it's cool to see one of my own ideas get this popular.

Anyway, on to your other cards...

Does the Tax token for Luxury Tax just increase the cost of the card for buying purposes, or does it also affect cards in your deck and hand? If the latter, that would give it some interesting interactions with Remodel, Upgrade, and the like.

In a game without Attack cards, Gate Watcher is a non-terminal, one-card not-quite-trasher for $3. I'm not sure I would buy Gate Watcher just for that. Even weak Reaction cards like Moat and Secret Chamber have uses in non-Attack games that (almost) justify their costs (sometimes). The Reaction itself is pretty neat, as it can help against both junkers (after the fact) and hand-reducers (immediately). The "+1 Card for every revealed Attack card," however, needs to go. It makes the entire card far too weak in an Attack-free game and far too powerful in a 4P game with good Attacks. I'd scrap this ability and keep the rest as a $2, because I like the rest.

Even as an anti-Gate Watcher/Secret Chamber, Runaway Train's deck-discard ability seems like it may help the opponent almost as much as it would hurt. Basically, you're taking the terminal Silver away from Militia and adding this extra attack to justify the $3. Like NoMoreFun said, this could use a little more non-Attack bonus. +$1 might do the trick.

I don't like Reassemble. You'd need three and have them all ready for this to be a Remodel, four for an Expand. Considering the cost and difficulty of three/four Reassembles compared to one Remodel/Expand, I don't think it's worth it. Even if you include the Reassemble you just played into the cost-increase equation, it still seems a little weak at $3.

Going back to my Locomotion expansion (geez, have I been putting off working on that or what?), your Assistant would just LOVE my Manifest (I have since renamed it and changed it around a little, and I'll post that change when I feel like it, so never).

Prospector is almost strictly better than Thief, barring Gardens games and any other time you just want to take Treasures. This could also be FAR too powerful in 4P games, just like Thief actually becomes semi-useful in 4P. Unless you just play one among all the Treasures revealed instead of one from each player, in which case, carry on.

There is definite potential for Outlaw shenanigans with Embargo or any +Buy card, but without any of that, Outlaw becomes a little useless. Drop the price.

Doesn't the "set aside, put into your discard during Cleanup" effect of Squatter count as a gain? Perhaps you should add "other than during your Cleanup phase" to the on-gain effect, just to avoid confusion.

Wayward Wanderer seems a little too powerful for a $5. Compare it to Council Room. The only way this card is weaker is that it doesn't give +1 Buy, which is not always that big of a deal, anyway. I like the bonus effect, though. Tinker with this one.

Steam Locomotive seems like it would be crazy powerful in a lot of circumstances. Though its self-synergy isn't fantastic, it can still be a cantrip with draw control. Up the cost or lessen the power.

I've seen Mad Mechanic discussed elsewhere, as well. Too lazy to look it up, though. Sorry!

And I need to go, so I'll look at the cards beyond Mad Mechanic some other time.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2012, 03:56:41 pm »
+1

Aerial Crank is fairly interesting.  It opens up strategies involving tons of terminals.  Not sure if you'd ever want more than one though, to kick start a chain with drawers.  You probably wouldn't want to put more than one on the top of the deck, since that would just clog up your hand and lower the chance of getting your Smithy or whatever.  Maybe you'd need multiples if you don't have any other villages.

Saloon is pretty interesting too.  I think I'd like it more if it had +1 card instead of +$1.

Reassemble seems extremely weak, or maybe just extremely situational.  If you only have one, it is terrible.  With just the one, there aren't any others to reveal from your hand so you could only get a card of the same cost.  With two, you then rely on them colliding.  Without helpers, this is still really bad (think Treasure Map), and even then it requires two cards to be worse than Remake or Remodel.  With even more copies, you still rely on all these cards coming together in the same hand and then you need luck to have the card you want to reassemble in hand as well.  You'd need quite an engine to make it worthwhile, and in that case there are probably faster, more effective ways to do what you want to do.  I don't think the mechanic works very well, but it might be better if it was $2 more per Reassemble revealed (though that might be too strong), or if it cost $2 instead of $3.  In the latter case, you could then Reassemble a starting Estate into a second Reassemble instead of having to waste a second buy on it.

Mastermind just seems really annoying to play.  One person having to reorder 10 cards for every player in the game? :\

Blue Blood gives +1 Action when it isn't even your turn?
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FishingVillage

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 05:23:29 pm »
0

Yay replies! This is probably going to end up being a super post to reply to each of the posts so far, so hold onto your hats folks.

@NoMoreFun:

I like Drunkard. I had a similar idea in another thread:
Dweller
Action/Attack
Cost: 3
Each player (including you) reveals the bottom card of their deck. He either puts it on top of his deck or discards it; your choice.
Then, +1 Card, +1 Coin
Ooo, hmm. Mine doesn't give you a card and coin, but it's cheaper. It's sometimes interesting to see the overlap in ideas here :)

Some of your attacks like runaway train would benefit from having some arbitrary bonus to the player, otherwise it falls into the same problem as saboteur.
Yeah, this seems to be sentiment I'm getting right now, so I'm going to think about the changes I'll make to it.

Drilling machine is great for seeming extremely overpowered until you think about it, but still not being weak. I love cards like that.
Hee hee, a reviewer that I sent this list to before mentioned that's what he thought of this card too :)

Also why not add "trash a card from your hand" to the options for mad mechanic. I think it's great for the theme and doesn't break the card.
I think it does enough as it is at the moment :P He has a friend that's in the trash-for-benefit business if you're interested.

@Tejayes:

Ah, the second person to steal implement my Repairs card, sans the "or less than," in their own fan expansion. Even if I did overprice it initially, it's cool to see one of my own ideas get this popular.
I'd rather just say that almost any idea can be devised independently :(
For the most part I try not to... appropriate ideas from other folks unless I can really make good differences to them, but that's just my word on that.

Does the Tax token for Luxury Tax just increase the cost of the card for buying purposes, or does it also affect cards in your deck and hand? If the latter, that would give it some interesting interactions with Remodel, Upgrade, and the like.
Applies to cards in your deck and hand as well :) You can screw someone's Remake over by putting a Tax token on Coppers and watch them turn Coppers into Estates if they're not attentive :D

In a game without Attack cards, Gate Watcher is a non-terminal, one-card not-quite-trasher for $3. I'm not sure I would buy Gate Watcher just for that. Even weak Reaction cards like Moat and Secret Chamber have uses in non-Attack games that (almost) justify their costs (sometimes). The Reaction itself is pretty neat, as it can help against both junkers (after the fact) and hand-reducers (immediately). The "+1 Card for every revealed Attack card," however, needs to go. It makes the entire card far too weak in an Attack-free game and far too powerful in a 4P game with good Attacks. I'd scrap this ability and keep the rest as a $2, because I like the rest.
Hmmm... the +1 Card per Attack card part is something I'd like to keep if possible though. It's exactly how Gate Watcher got started; it's a guy on top of a wall that's warning you to prepare for impending threats :P

You have a point in that it scales too strongly by player count in games using Attacks. Maybe something more like:

"Each other player reveals his hand. If anyone revealed an Attack card, +3 Cards. Otherwise, +1 Card."

Even as an anti-Gate Watcher/Secret Chamber, Runaway Train's deck-discard ability seems like it may help the opponent almost as much as it would hurt. Basically, you're taking the terminal Silver away from Militia and adding this extra attack to justify the $3. Like NoMoreFun said, this could use a little more non-Attack bonus. +$1 might do the trick.
It's supposed to represent an "absolute disaster", so I kind of want to continue on that aesthetic if possible. What about letting the attacker discard or trash cards from his hand? I think that fits the theme pretty well and would also be potentially useful :) Something like this:

"Trash or discard 2 cards from your hand."

I don't like Reassemble. You'd need three and have them all ready for this to be a Remodel, four for an Expand. Considering the cost and difficulty of three/four Reassembles compared to one Remodel/Expand, I don't think it's worth it. Even if you include the Reassemble you just played into the cost-increase equation, it still seems a little weak at $3.
Would it be too strong if it was +$2 more per revealed Reassemble instead of +$1? One more thing I want to add though is that Remodel makes it a requirement for the player to gain something, but Reassemble doesn't. So one could Reassemble a Curse and choose to get nothing, but Remodeling a Curse means you end up with a Copper or Estate, and while either is better than a Curse it's still garbage you have to deal with later.

Going back to my Locomotion expansion (geez, have I been putting off working on that or what?), your Assistant would just LOVE my Manifest (I have since renamed it and changed it around a little, and I'll post that change when I feel like it, so never).
Okay, looking forward to it :)

Prospector is almost strictly better than Thief, barring Gardens games and any other time you just want to take Treasures. This could also be FAR too powerful in 4P games, just like Thief actually becomes semi-useful in 4P. Unless you just play one among all the Treasures revealed instead of one from each player, in which case, carry on.
Yup, currently you pick a Treasure revealed from each player and play it. I dunno, I guess choosing and playing only 1 of the revealed Treasures is fine. This is probably more similar to Pirate Ship than Thief or Noble Brigand...

There is definite potential for Outlaw shenanigans with Embargo or any +Buy card, but without any of that, Outlaw becomes a little useless. Drop the price.
Being able to turn any buy into a weapon seems like a pretty big deal, even if it's only for 1 Buy. Ill-Gotten Gains comes to mind, with how expensive it is and how fairly middling it is when the instant Curse is taken out of the picture.

Doesn't the "set aside, put into your discard during Cleanup" effect of Squatter count as a gain? Perhaps you should add "other than during your Cleanup phase" to the on-gain effect, just to avoid confusion.
Nope, it's not explicitly saying gain, and I hope to avoid recursive gaining by doing that :P

Wayward Wanderer seems a little too powerful for a $5. Compare it to Council Room. The only way this card is weaker is that it doesn't give +1 Buy, which is not always that big of a deal, anyway. I like the bonus effect, though. Tinker with this one.
Hmm okay. I'll think about what I can do about this one.

Steam Locomotive seems like it would be crazy powerful in a lot of circumstances. Though its self-synergy isn't fantastic, it can still be a cantrip with draw control. Up the cost or lessen the power.
For reals? :O I was wondering about whether or not Steam Loco is genuinely as good as Laboratory. It's synergy is rather problematic, not just with itself but with other draw cards as well. At $6 I don't think the power is really appropriate.

And I need to go, so I'll look at the cards beyond Mad Mechanic some other time.
Thanks for the feedback! I hope to hear from you soon on the other cards :)

@eHalcyon:

Aerial Crank is fairly interesting.  It opens up strategies involving tons of terminals.  Not sure if you'd ever want more than one though, to kick start a chain with drawers.  You probably wouldn't want to put more than one on the top of the deck, since that would just clog up your hand and lower the chance of getting your Smithy or whatever.  Maybe you'd need multiples if you don't have any other villages.
Glad you liked it :) Aerial Crank and Mastermind are intended to be the main representatives for this expansion; lots of enabling and set up options, and whole lots of analysis paralysis to go with it.

Saloon is pretty interesting too.  I think I'd like it more if it had +1 card instead of +$1.
Hmm, an interesting idea. I guess drawing an Action dead wouldn't be a big deal since you can discard it anyway, but Saloon will then draw comparisons with Vault I think.

Reassemble seems extremely weak, or maybe just extremely situational.  If you only have one, it is terrible.  With just the one, there aren't any others to reveal from your hand so you could only get a card of the same cost.  With two, you then rely on them colliding.  Without helpers, this is still really bad (think Treasure Map), and even then it requires two cards to be worse than Remake or Remodel.  With even more copies, you still rely on all these cards coming together in the same hand and then you need luck to have the card you want to reassemble in hand as well.  You'd need quite an engine to make it worthwhile, and in that case there are probably faster, more effective ways to do what you want to do.  I don't think the mechanic works very well, but it might be better if it was $2 more per Reassemble revealed (though that might be too strong), or if it cost $2 instead of $3.  In the latter case, you could then Reassemble a starting Estate into a second Reassemble instead of having to waste a second buy on it.
Was thinking about increasing the factor to $2 after Tejayes' post. The thing about Reassmble is that, unlike Treasure Map, you can still use them by themselves; you can choose to get back something of equal cost, or nothing at all, so at least you can thin out your deck as you work on getting the Reassembles to collide.

Mastermind just seems really annoying to play.  One person having to reorder 10 cards for every player in the game? :\
Yikes. Strike two for Mastermind =\ The first version was even more obtuse, and it's unfortunate that I still can't seem to get the concept working acceptably.

Blue Blood gives +1 Action when it isn't even your turn?
Yeah, but you don't get to use it since it isn't your turn to play cards. Leftover Actions don't stay with you going from turn to turn, so I don't know how big a deal this would be.
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Tejayes

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 06:21:49 pm »
0

More thoughts:

I agree with NoMoreFun that Drilling Machine sounds ridiculous at first, and it might still be if you can put together a strong deck consisting of nothing more than cards costing no more than $4 (apart from Drilling Machine itself). Could be quite useful in Gardens/Silk Road games or games with strong $4 terminals like Monument or Bishop.

Another agreement that Mastermind is just far too labor-intensive to be fun. A 4P game would take hours with this card available. I know you must have your heart set on this attack, but perhaps it would be best to keep it to the player's deck alone. Still a very powerful ability.

Opening 5/2 with Blood Money in play would be awesome. A Gold that trashes early junk? As if Ill-Gotten Gains and Mountebank didn't make the 5/2 advantage ridiculous enough. With the Attack card bonus, maybe this should be a $6.

A warning for Buried Ore -- do not require something (like revealing all Buried Ore cards in the discard pile) without allowing all players to see that no shenanigans are being played. Even if everyone sees what goes into the discard, it's still possible to bluff and not reveal all Buried Ore cards. Thus, you should reveal all cards in the discard pile when you are about to reshuffle. Or, better yet, how about this:

"$3
--
If this card is in play during your Cleanup phase, set it aside. After your next reshuffle, set aside the top two cards of your deck for each Buried Ore set aside, then return all set aside cards to the bottom of your deck in any order."

Honestly, Tenant Housing doesn't sound like it's going to be useful in non-Cursing games, except maybe for Silk Road games. Maybe if you have a lot of extra buys to soak at the end of the game, but otherwise, I don't know about this one.

eHalcyon covered my question about Blue Blood, so moving on...

Frontier would be quite good with Silk Road in play. Otherwise, meh.

I was thinking about adding something like L.L. Bean Land's End to that ill-conceived Urban Planner idea I submitted to that one contest not too long ago. This card would be at least a Duchy in any game, and with cards like Caravan or Peddler or Fishing Village in play, it would be easy to turn Land's End into an almost-Province or more. I think the static 1 VP could be removed and this would still be a good card to consider.

In general, it looks like one of the mechanical themes of this set is returning cards to the supply, as well as a crapton of reactions. So far, it seems pretty cohesive. I hope you have the opportunity to playtest these, as I want to see this set improve. Good work so far.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 09:05:04 am »
0

Replace would generally be useless I think. You'd usually use it to swap out cards that you should have bought in the first place. In Swindler and Highway games, it could be used to some effect, but otherwise, it's almost entirely worthless.

Reassemble is a terrible card. In order to get the affect of a terminal Upgrade you have to already have 2 in your hand. If you made the upgrade of it based on some sort of token system I think it could work.

Saloon might be overpowered. I'd have to see it in a game.

Gas Geyser, when played from a standard 5-card hand, leaves the player with a 2 Card hand in order to give each other player a Curse and 3 card hands. It seems like it would hurt you more than, or at least as much as, everyone else.

Femme Fatale discourages strategies that hinge upon Actions by targeting them. I don't like this card since it pushes players towards Big Money.

Demolition Team is a better trasher than Chapel. In addition, it can unavoidably force other players to trash cards. Even without that second ability, it is a better trasher than Chapel. I don't think it needs to do anything else.

I love Drilling Machine, but it needs some kind of check-- namely because if you get enough Highways and Bridges into play, you will draw your entire deck.

Mastermind would be really boring to wait through.

I'd suggest wording Buried Ore similarly to Stash: Before you shuffle, look through your discard pile and set aside 2 cards. When you shuffle, place the set aside cards and this on the bottom of your deck in any order.
The mention of "per Buried Ore" is unnecessary, because it is implied that you have to set aside 2 cards for each Buried Ore. Any more explicit and it reads more like the description from the booklet than the card.

I like the idea of Tenant Housing, but because it's only worth 1VP and only returns 1 card, it is mostly useless. I might make it cost more and allow it to return more than one card.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 10:56:29 am »
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Replace would generally be useless I think. You'd usually use it to swap out cards that you should have bought in the first place. In Swindler and Highway games, it could be used to some effect, but otherwise, it's almost entirely worthless.
There are also Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains games, where it gets used to send a card with an on-gain benefit back and forth.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 04:53:21 pm »
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Demolition Team is a better trasher than Chapel. In addition, it can unavoidably force other players to trash cards. Even without that second ability, it is a better trasher than Chapel. I don't think it needs to do anything else.

Demolition Team is quite a bit stronger in three ways:
- it cycles the deck
- it can trash up to 5 cards, rather than just 4
- it doesn't trash your current hand, so you can still buy something that turn

It would be very rarely that you would buy more than one of these, so the second ability wouldn't come into play often anyway.  When it does, it may actually help the opponent rather than hurt them.  If it's really an issue, maybe it could be changed to an optional trash for opponents (like Bishop), but I think the forced trash isn't a big deal.  In the cases where it does hurt the opponent, I think it's justified as an attack.  The opponent still gets a choice of what to drop...
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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 11:22:42 pm »
+1

My overall advice to you: Quality over quantity. Look for the unique essence of each card that you create, and do any revisions necessary to bring it out, instead of trying to give a name and a cost to every gimmick that you can think of.

Quote
Telescope $2
Action - Reaction

+1 Action

Look at the top 5 cards of your deck, then put them back in any order.
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, draw until you have 8 cards in hand, then put cards from your hand on top of your deck until you have 5 cards in hand.

A majority of the time, this won't make any net effect, even though sometimes one might use it to avoid dead draws of actions. At least Navigator gives coin and the option to discard all the revealed cards. The reaction is also problematic. Giving the player 8 cards to choose from instead of 7, this reaction is strictly better than Secret Chamber's in the vast majority of cases (barring previous plays of Governor or Council Room). What's more, it heavily penalizes any non-hand reducing attacks. Especially terrible for the attacker would be playing a non-hand reducing attack when the attackee has less than 5 cards, giving them a free restoration of their hand, picked out of 8 cards (which is almost like a free play of Warehouse, minus the discarding aspect). It would definitely skew the game too much.

Quote
Drunkard $2
Action - Attack

Each player (including you) reveals the bottom card of his deck and either discards it or puts it on top, your choice.

This is only negligibly different from Spy, barring the lack of +1 card, +1 action. Spy itself is a very underwhelming card with a weak attack and a low chance of being beneficial. It's not a card that needs a copy, much less a cheaper, terminal imitation that becomes more of a liability to your deck than anything else. Even if it costed $0 I would ignore it.

Quote
Luxury Tax $2
Action

+$2

Trash this. Put a Tax token on top of a Supply pile.

Each card cost $1 more per Tax token on its pile.

This would have interesting interactions with trash-for-benefit cards, but overall, I think this card is fundamentally flawed. It's liable to make games become unbearably drawn out, and can very easily make them almost unfinishable. Just three plays of this could make Provinces cost the same as Colonies, permanently, which wouldn't be very fun in a game without Platinum or other Prosperity cards. At least with Embargo, you're running out the Curses, which pushes the game closer to finishing. And with trashers on the board, people won't terribly mind buying something with 1 or 2 Embargo tokens on them. Plus there are workarounds when you gain without buying.

Quote
Aerial Crank $3
Action - Reaction

Choose one: +3 Actions; or +1 Action and +2 Buys.

When you discard this from play, you may put it anywhere in your deck.
______________________________

When you discard this other than during a Clean-Up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, set this aside, then at the start of your next turn, put it in your hand.

You probably have reasoned that, since this card is only giving actions or buys, it's a harmless enough card to make so sticky, able to play multiple times per reshuffle. I would agree if this were an alternative Prize, since we'd only be dealing with one copy, but things could get very screwy very quickly when there are multiples in a deck. This is just too easily abused by discard-for-benefit and discarding-as-the-mitigator cards. Also, this would need a differently-colored back like Stash has, since its location is a publicly-available datum that shouldn't be obscured by bad memory. You might be able to salvage the reaction for something else, however.

Quote
Saloon $3
Action

+$1

Discard any number of Action cards from your hand. +$2 per Action card discarded.

Overpowered without a doubt. And it essentially turns actions into silvers, which makes for a boring strategy not much different from Big Money.

Quote
Gate Watcher $3
Action - Reaction

+1 Action

You may reveal a card from your hand. If you do, return it to the Supply.

Each other player reveals his hand. For each Attack card revealed, +1 Card.
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this. If you do, you may reveal a card from your hand. Return the revealed card to the Supply or put it on the top or bottom of your deck.

This shouldn't be so dependent on Attacks for its main effect. Plus, the two components of the main text are just too disjointed and may as well be separate cards, since together they don't create any overall effect. And returning the the supply is a bad idea that will only slow the game down. Ambassador gets away with it because it distributes those very same returned cards to everyone else.

Quote
Runaway Train $3
Action - Attack

Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. For each card he discarded from hand, he discards that many cards from the top of his deck.

You shouldn't be able to open with the equivalent of two Militias. That would ruin any game from the start. And since it gives no benefit to the attacker, it will only make games long, drawn-out, and not very fun. (eg: You've been Runaway Trained so your hand is RT, copper, copper. You play RT on your opponent so their hand is RT, copper, copper. Rinse and repeat). Sea Hag costs $4 so it can't be opened double, and it eventually loses firepower when curses run out. The free deck-cycling that this gives to opponents doesn't have any purpose, either.

Quote
Scoundrels $3
Action - Attack

Reveal a card from your hand. Each other player discards a copy of that card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no copy of that card).

You shouldn't be able to cockblock powerful cards so easily. Cutpurse only targets coppers, and handsize-reducing attacks let players choose to keep their best cards. And even if you Masquerade someone's 3-card hand, they still get to choose what they give you, and you have to give them something in return. Also, this card would make the last player in multiplayer stand no chance.

Quote
Prospector $4
Action - Attack

Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck. If they revealed any any Treasure cards, you play one of them of your choice. They discard the other revealed cards. Any treasure cards you play this way are set aside and returned to their owners’ discard piles at end of turn.

I would tighten up the wording here. And this is definitely not an attack (see Tribute). And unless you're playing multiplayer, or everyone's flush with Gold and/or Platinum, I don't think this is good enough to be a terminal $4, as the best you'd hope for is a silver.

Quote
Outlaw $4
Action - Reaction

While this is in play, when you would gain a card, you may immediately discard this. If you do, each other player gains a copy of that card instead.
______________________________

When another player uses a Reaction card, you may discard this. If you do, that Reaction card is immediately discarded and has no effect.

First of all, I would say "activates a reaction", for when someone uses the reaction mechanic of a Reaction card. Second of all, this is a terrible idea. Punishing a player for activating a reaction by first nullifying it and then (figuratively) slapping it out of their hand won't make the game any funner, it will only make people refuse to buy even interesting reactions like Tunnel, Fool's Gold, or Trader. Reactions which nullify the harm of Attacks will not completely disincentivize the use of attacks since the Attack usually has some benefit for the attacker. Even if there's a strong attack on the board, Moat is not always a wise choice, especially since you harm your deck if you load up such a weak action. Trying to cockblock it with something like this is overkill. And the ability to take someone's Watchtower away when they use it to top-deck a card would be awfully.

Well, analyzing those 10 cards have left me a bit drained; I'll come back to the rest if I feel like it.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 11:36:22 pm by Diving Pikachu »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 01:23:47 pm »
0

There are also Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains games, where it gets used to send a card with an on-gain benefit back and forth.

It wouldn't really be that useful with BV.  Why would you send BV back just to buy it again?  You have $6 in hand.  Keep the BV you have and buy whatever you want outright (or a second BV if they are still in supply).

It also wouldn't be useful with IGG.  If IGG remain in supply, you can buy outright without returning one.  If IGG are all gone, curses probably are too -- why return it to re-buy it when the on-gain won't do anything?  Although there may be those cases when IGG runs out before Curse due to reactions or Ambassador.
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Diving Pikachu

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 02:47:03 pm »
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There are also Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains games, where it gets used to send a card with an on-gain benefit back and forth.

It wouldn't really be that useful with BV.  Why would you send BV back just to buy it again?  You have $6 in hand.  Keep the BV you have and buy whatever you want outright (or a second BV if they are still in supply).

It also wouldn't be useful with IGG.  If IGG remain in supply, you can buy outright without returning one.  If IGG are all gone, curses probably are too -- why return it to re-buy it when the on-gain won't do anything?  Although there may be those cases when IGG runs out before Curse due to reactions or Ambassador.

Why do you talk of buying? This action lets you gain the new card. And with Border Village, you can replace the BV in your hand with a newly gained one, which gains you a free $5 card, just by playing a $2 cantrip. Having BV in your hand basically turns Replace into a nonterminal, reusable Feast, especially since you get the BV back into your hand. But even if it gained the replacement BV into your discard, I'd probably still use it. And if there were powerful $6's on the board, I'd consider swapping out a few BV's with them instead, as, in that specific situation, it's basically like playing a nonterminal Mine that only works on Villages. Replace would be brutal with IGG, as well. Play Replace, send off IGG, get it right back into your hand, and curse everyone for free, just playing a $2 cantrip. It would make whoever opens 2/5 unbeatable.

So, as already established by others, Replace would be incredibly strong in games with Highway, IGG, and BV, and could be a good asset in Swindler games, but otherwise, it is useless.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 05:32:52 pm »
0

There are also Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains games, where it gets used to send a card with an on-gain benefit back and forth.

It wouldn't really be that useful with BV.  Why would you send BV back just to buy it again?  You have $6 in hand.  Keep the BV you have and buy whatever you want outright (or a second BV if they are still in supply).

It also wouldn't be useful with IGG.  If IGG remain in supply, you can buy outright without returning one.  If IGG are all gone, curses probably are too -- why return it to re-buy it when the on-gain won't do anything?  Although there may be those cases when IGG runs out before Curse due to reactions or Ambassador.

Why do you talk of buying? This action lets you gain the new card. And with Border Village, you can replace the BV in your hand with a newly gained one, which gains you a free $5 card, just by playing a $2 cantrip. Having BV in your hand basically turns Replace into a nonterminal, reusable Feast, especially since you get the BV back into your hand. But even if it gained the replacement BV into your discard, I'd probably still use it. And if there were powerful $6's on the board, I'd consider swapping out a few BV's with them instead, as, in that specific situation, it's basically like playing a nonterminal Mine that only works on Villages. Replace would be brutal with IGG, as well. Play Replace, send off IGG, get it right back into your hand, and curse everyone for free, just playing a $2 cantrip. It would make whoever opens 2/5 unbeatable.

So, as already established by others, Replace would be incredibly strong in games with Highway, IGG, and BV, and could be a good asset in Swindler games, but otherwise, it is useless.

Ahh, I see now.
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jotheonah

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 06:01:48 pm »
0

Quote
Femme Fatale $5
Action - Attack

+1 Card, +1 Action

Discard a card. If you do, each other player discards an Action card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no Action cards).

I'm surprised no one has commented on this one. If your opponent is an engine player, this is a cantrip Torturer with no cursing option. Chain it with a handsize-increaser like Lab and you have a really not-fun pin.  Which will, of course, just encourage everyone to play big money when this is on the board.

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jotheonah

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 06:03:04 pm »
0


Reassemble is a terrible card. In order to get the affect of a terminal Upgrade you have to already have 2 in your hand. If you made the upgrade of it based on some sort of token system I think it could work.


I was thinking this too! Make it like a cross between Remodel and Pirate Ship, where you can increase its remodel value each play.
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FishingVillage

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 06:31:09 pm »
0

Wow :O Quite a lot of responses! Thanks for all the feedback :) I'll at least point out that yeah, I'm aware the power levels on some of these is out of whack, and I'll definitely get around to amending based on the replies here and when I experience some of these for myself. I'll try and give proper responses when I can put them together.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 07:46:49 pm »
0

Quote
Femme Fatale $5
Action - Attack

+1 Card, +1 Action

Discard a card. If you do, each other player discards an Action card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no Action cards).

I'm surprised no one has commented on this one. If your opponent is an engine player, this is a cantrip Torturer with no cursing option. Chain it with a handsize-increaser like Lab and you have a really not-fun pin.  Which will, of course, just encourage everyone to play big money when this is on the board.

Perhaps the card discarded to activate the attack should be an Action as well. It would encourage the Femme Fatale user to load up on $2 or $3 Actions to sacrifice if there are plenty of buys, while someone ignoring FF would be ahead on $5 or $6 actions. If there aren't that many buys, then a FF user could justify having a higher density of terminals so any excess could be sacrificed.
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FishingVillage

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2012, 09:08:48 pm »
0

@Tejayes:

I agree with NoMoreFun that Drilling Machine sounds ridiculous at first, and it might still be if you can put together a strong deck consisting of nothing more than cards costing no more than $4 (apart from Drilling Machine itself). Could be quite useful in Gardens/Silk Road games or games with strong $4 terminals like Monument or Bishop.
Well Drilling Machine itself is terminal, so fetching Monuments or Bishops won’t necessarily help you unless you have village types available. I agree that Drilling Machine can be helpful for Gardens and Silk Roads, but being able to draw your entire deck is overkill for those unless you have extra Buys to use.

Opening 5/2 with Blood Money in play would be awesome. A Gold that trashes early junk? As if Ill-Gotten Gains and Mountebank didn't make the 5/2 advantage ridiculous enough. With the Attack card bonus, maybe this should be a $6.
Hrrrm I don’t know if I want this to be competing with Gold. I probably should’ve thought this out better, but Attacks aren’t expected to be available on every kingdom, and Peddler can at least trigger its own cost reduction. The bonus for trashing is probably too good, so I think I’ll reduce that. It’ll basically be an expensive Silver early game, but I think it’s probably still a better choice than Royal Seal or Stash most of the time.

Frontier would be quite good with Silk Road in play. Otherwise, meh.
What about games with Garden, games with Land’s End, or games with trash for benefit? :P By itself yes I suppose it’s a liability, although most alternate Victory cards are of that nature.

@Fragasnap:

Gas Geyser, when played from a standard 5-card hand, leaves the player with a 2 Card hand in order to give each other player a Curse and 3 card hands. It seems like it would hurt you more than, or at least as much as, everyone else.
You don’t have to discard, you could also just leave everyone with 4 cards that they might not want. Being able to Curse and force discard is pretty strong I think. For one turn, yeah you’ll have a very bad hand. Everyone else will have a bad hand for one turn and deal with Curses until they get rid of them.

I love Drilling Machine, but it needs some kind of check-- namely because if you get enough Highways and Bridges into play, you will draw your entire deck.
Being able to draw your entire deck using Highways + Drilling Machine would be cute, but unless you have extra Buys on hand I wouldn’t be that worried. You’re likely to just end up shuffling Provinces faster into your deck, which is another obstacle for Drilling Machines to deal with :P Bridges + Drilling Machine + village type would be fun to see, though Bridges + village type tends to be pretty strong anyway.

@Diving Pikachu:

A majority of the time, this won't make any net effect, even though sometimes one might use it to avoid dead draws of actions. At least Navigator gives coin and the option to discard all the revealed cards. The reaction is also problematic. Giving the player 8 cards to choose from instead of 7, this reaction is strictly better than Secret Chamber's in the vast majority of cases (barring previous plays of Governor or Council Room). What's more, it heavily penalizes any non-hand reducing attacks. Especially terrible for the attacker would be playing a non-hand reducing attack when the attackee has less than 5 cards, giving them a free restoration of their hand, picked out of 8 cards (which is almost like a free play of Warehouse, minus the discarding aspect). It would definitely skew the game too much.
Well, I’ll agree that the Action part could use a little help. Inspecting the top 5 cards doesn’t do much on it’s own, maybe I’ll let the player inspect 8 to at least influence the next turn’s draw.

This would have interesting interactions with trash-for-benefit cards, but overall, I think this card is fundamentally flawed. It's liable to make games become unbearably drawn out, and can very easily make them almost unfinishable. Just three plays of this could make Provinces cost the same as Colonies, permanently, which wouldn't be very fun in a game without Platinum or other Prosperity cards. At least with Embargo, you're running out the Curses, which pushes the game closer to finishing. And with trashers on the board, people won't terribly mind buying something with 1 or 2 Embargo tokens on them. Plus there are workarounds when you gain without buying.
Unless there were other strategies available for a kingdom, I find it hard to rationalize that a player interested in winning will continuously tax Provinces/Colonies. If they just wanted to piss off the other players, then I imagine there are other cards that do just about as good a job, and there are still other ways to end the game. I do agree that the permanence of the tokens can be a problem so I’ll think about how that can be dealt with.

You probably have reasoned that, since this card is only giving actions or buys, it's a harmless enough card to make so sticky, able to play multiple times per reshuffle. I would agree if this were an alternative Prize, since we'd only be dealing with one copy, but things could get very screwy very quickly when there are multiples in a deck. This is just too easily abused by discard-for-benefit and discarding-as-the-mitigator cards. Also, this would need a differently-colored back like Stash has, since its location is a publicly-available datum that shouldn't be obscured by bad memory. You might be able to salvage the reaction for something else, however.
Why would Aerial Crank need a differently colored back? The discard condition is no different from Tunnel's condition. The set aside effect is no different from Horse Traders' effect. Being able to put itself anywhere in your deck doesn’t seem like a big liability, as that occurs after being discarded from play so it is known what it is and what it does. If nobody tracks where the Aerial Crank is after it is placed, I don’t see how that could ruin the game. What examples come to mind in which Aerial Crank would get really screwy?

Overpowered without a doubt. And it essentially turns actions into silvers, which makes for a boring strategy not much different from Big Money.
I can imagine some kingdoms in which Saloon would be pretty strong, but they're kingdoms with village types and lots of draw power, which don't necessarily benefit from having Saloon around (but Saloon benefits from them). I think it'd be interesting to think about if it's worth cutting your engine short for more money instead (I’m thinking the answer is usually yes, go for the money). What examples do you have in mind in which Saloon is overpowered?

This shouldn't be so dependent on Attacks for its main effect. Plus, the two components of the main text are just too disjointed and may as well be separate cards, since together they don't create any overall effect. And returning the the supply is a bad idea that will only slow the game down. Ambassador gets away with it because it distributes those very same returned cards to everyone else.
For which cards does returning cards become problematic? I'm thinking... maybe Estates? Ending on piles using Estates seems normal, ending on piles using Coppers is fairly abnormal, and unless you can eke out extra points for prolonging the game, I don't know how often you'd want to return cards that you spent many turns to acquire. What examples do you have in mind?

You shouldn't be able to cockblock powerful cards so easily. Cutpurse only targets coppers, and handsize-reducing attacks let players choose to keep their best cards. And even if you Masquerade someone's 3-card hand, they still get to choose what they give you, and you have to give them something in return. Also, this card would make the last player in multiplayer stand no chance.
You have to get the powerful card to make others discard that though, it's not like you can force them to discard at will (that's covered by another card in this set at $7). Some powerful cards are not necessarily easy to come by, and there's the trouble of getting that powerful card into your hand with an attack that otherwise doesn't give benefits to the attacker.

I would tighten up the wording here. And this is definitely not an attack (see Tribute). And unless you're playing multiplayer, or everyone's flush with Gold and/or Platinum, I don't think this is good enough to be a terminal $4, as the best you'd hope for is a silver.
Eh? This is totally an attack. It works similarly to Thief, but instead of stealing a treasure from each player, you pick and immediately play one of the revealed treasures.

First of all, I would say "activates a reaction", for when someone uses the reaction mechanic of a Reaction card. Second of all, this is a terrible idea. Punishing a player for activating a reaction by first nullifying it and then (figuratively) slapping it out of their hand won't make the game any funner, it will only make people refuse to buy even interesting reactions like Tunnel or Trader. Reactions which react to Attacks will not completely disincentivize the use of attacks--even if they completely nullify their harm--since the Attack usually has some benefit for the attacker. Even if there's a strong attack on the board, Moat is not always a wise choice, especially since you harm your deck if you load up such a weak action.
Well, it is too strong if it can negate Reactions an infinite number of times, which is why discarding is part of activation. It is fairly pointless for it to be one use against Reactions that can be revealed and activated an infinite number of times, which is why forcing the discard is part of its effect. It’s just an extra investment to diffuse certain strategies, and not only is it one for one, it’s on the high end of costs for Reactions.
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Diving Pikachu

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2012, 12:53:48 am »
+1

Quote
I would tighten up the wording here. And this is definitely not an attack (see Tribute). And unless you're playing multiplayer, or everyone's flush with Gold and/or Platinum, I don't think this is good enough to be a terminal $4, as the best you'd hope for is a silver.
Eh? This is totally an attack. It works similarly to Thief, but instead of stealing a treasure from each player, you pick and immediately play one of the revealed treasures.

Each opponent ends up with two cards from the top of their deck placed into their discard pile. This is a blind and unbiased discard, so even if an oponent is prevented from using an important action or treasure, it is only accidental. Therefore, there is no intentional harm to your opponents, so it is not an attack. Look at Tribute, Smugglers, and Possession--but especially Possession. None of them are attacks. Tribute discards 2 cards and derives its benefits variably from whichever cards are revealed. This is essentially the same as your card, minus the fact that it is concerned only with the classification of the revealed cards instead of their specific power. Smugglers and Possession freeload off the power of an opposing player's deck and the presence of specific cards. But not even Possession, as intrusive and infuriating as it is, is a direct attack--you are given a fresh, full turn after your own, after you've been hijacked by the Possessor. Prospector is a treasure-targeted Possession. It is nothing like Thief, which can easilly cripple the buying power of a Chapel-trimmed deck.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2012, 12:14:21 pm »
0

First of all, apologies if this post repeats a lot of what's already been said. I wrote it over the course of several days. Specifically, I agree with pretty much everything Diving Pikachu has said.

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Orator $0
Action

+2 Actions

I'm not a big fan of $0 cards, since either you'd never buy them (because they're next to useless) or you can buy a whole bunch of them at once. I think this card falls into the 'never buy' catagory. If it's the only source of +2 Actions available, I'll try a Big Money strategy instead. In addition to that, it's pretty bland.

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Telescope $2
Action - Reaction

+1 Action

Look at the top 5 cards of your deck, then put them back in any order.
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, draw until you have 8 cards in hand, then put cards from your hand on top of your deck until you have 5 cards in hand.

The reaction effect is almost always far superior to Secret Chamber. If Scout is any indication, the action effect is quite weak. I don't really like the way the two components overlap. If you choose to keep a Telescope in hand after revealing it, you've already arranged 3 of the top 5 cards that you're about to look at. You could always use the Telescope to put itself on top of your deck, but depending on the mix of Attack cards available, you may not want to.

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Replace $2
Action

+1 Action

Reveal a card from your hand. Return it from your hand to the Supply. Gain a card with the same cost; put it in your hand.

I'd rework this. Something like:

+1 Action. You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a differently named card with the same cost, putting it into your hand.

There are two reasons for this change.

1) This way you're not obligated to remove a card from your hand only to gain it back.
2) It avoids returning the card to the Supply.

Returning cards to the Supply isn't a huge deal, but in general you should avoid it if possible. For one thing, not all cards can be returned to the Supply. Anything that comes out of the Black Market deck or Prize pile, for instance. It's much cleaner if the card gets trashed. The 'differently named card' clause prevents this version from being used to quickly run down piles.

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Drunkard $2
Action - Attack

Each player (including you) reveals the bottom card of his deck and either discards it or puts it on top, your choice.

Hmm, interesting. My worry is that when played in multiples, it could wipe out an entire turn. However, barring some sort of King's Court super engine, it'd probably never happen because I don't think people are likely to buy it. The fact that it does nothing for your current turn is a real strike against it. If you could figure out a way to boost what it does for you and nerf what it does to each other player, it might work better.

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Luxury Tax $2
Action

+$2

Trash this. Put a Tax token on top of a Supply pile.

Each card cost $1 more per Tax token on its pile.

So it's sort of like Embargo. I have concerns about this card, but I'd like to see how it plays as is. Maybe it's fine.

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Aerial Crank $3
Action - Reaction

Choose one: +3 Actions; or +1 Action and +2 Buys.

When you discard this from play, you may put it anywhere in your deck.
______________________________

When you discard this other than during a Clean-Up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, set this aside, then at the start of your next turn, put it in your hand.

This needs some rewording and reformatting, but the concept is interesting. It's the village that just won't die. I'd change the actual action effect of the card, though. +3 Actions and +1 Action/+2 Buys are both things I'd rarely want to have.

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Saloon $3
Action

+$1

Discard any number of Action cards from your hand. +$2 per Action card discarded.

Cool idea. Does it need the additional +$1? I'm not saying it doesn't, but it seems like $2 per Action card should be plenty.

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Gate Watcher $3
Action - Reaction

+1 Action

You may reveal a card from your hand. If you do, return it to the Supply.

Each other player reveals his hand. For each Attack card revealed, +1 Card.
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this. If you do, you may reveal a card from your hand. Return the revealed card to the Supply or put it on the top or bottom of your deck.

Why are these cards being returned to the Supply rather than trashed? Is there a specific reason, or is it just for the sake of being unusual?

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Philanthropist $3
Action

+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1

Each other player draws a card.

A cheap Market is nice, but not at the cost of everybody else drawing a card. I'd almost always rather have a Silver. Because they're so easy to acquire and chain, if it does get bought, all your opponents could end up with huge hands every turn. If I could top off the chain with Militia, Minion, or Goons, I'd buy these up as fast as I can. Otherwise, I wouldn't touch them.

(Also, this chains really well with Minion, which would be incredibly annoying to play. OK, everybody discard their hand and draw 4, then draw 1, then discard their hand and draw 4, etc.)

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Runaway Train $3
Action - Attack

Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. For each card he discarded from hand, he discards that many cards from the top of his deck.

I don't really understand how the deck discard is meant to hurt your opponents. Whatever they top-decked during their last turn is already in their hand when this gets played.

As others have said, this needs some sort of buff, be it a vanilla bonus or otherwise. A vanilla bonus brings it perilously close to Militia territory, though.

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Scoundrels $3
Action - Attack

Reveal a card from your hand. Each other player discards a copy of that card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no copy of that card).

Hmm, hard to see how this would play out. I think it needs some vanilla bonus to make it worthwhile, though. After that, it would require a lot of playtesting in mutli-player games. It could potentially wipe out entire turns.

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Reassemble $3
Action

Reveal any number of Reassemble cards from your hand, then trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more per revealed card than the trashed card.

This is a cool idea, but seems hard to make work. It should definitely be at least $2 per additional Reassemble. Also, maybe it could somehow be non-terminal? Otherwise you have to junk up your deck way too much to make it work.

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Assistant $4
Action

+1 Card, +1 Action

Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Copper card. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.

Play any number of Treasure cards from your hand.

Hm, why 'play any number of Treasure cards from your hand'? Black Market is awkward enough. No need to propagate that. Sure it combos well with Library and Watchtower as is, but if you keep your Treasure cards in hand, it combos well with Cellar and Warehouse! So you still get cool interactions without the messy rules piece.

The +1 Card/+1 Action/Dig for a Copper seems balanced and well-priced at $4, though. Cool card!

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Aerial Freighter $4
Action

Choose one: +2 Cards or +$2.

When you discard this from play, you may put it anywhere in your deck.

Here's the thing: this is an overpriced, underpowered Steward. The fact that I can play a card every turn isn't really a benefit if the card is weak. I'd rather be playing, and therefor buying, other cards. The effect(s) have got to be better than 'Weak Moat' and 'Terminal Silver'.

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Prospector $4
Action - Attack

Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck. If they revealed any any Treasure cards, you play one of them of your choice. They discard the other revealed cards. Any treasure cards you play this way are set aside and returned to their owners’ discard piles at end of turn.

I don't think this needs to be an Attack. Also, maybe it should have an additional vanilla bonus? It's going to hit Silver more often than gold, and $4 for a terminal Action that provides about $2 on average is pretty poor.

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Outlaw $4
Action - Reaction

While this is in play, when you would gain a card, you may immediately discard this. If you do, each other player gains a copy of that card instead.
______________________________

When another player uses a Reaction card, you may discard this. If you do, that Reaction card is immediately discarded and has no effect.

Ugh, Reactions that respond to other Reactions seems like a really problematic idea, and not just because of the 'uses' keyword (though that's a bit messy too). For one thing, it's political. I play an Attack and the other 3 players each reveal a Moat. Now I discard Outlaw and choose one Moat to invalidate? No thanks. Second, Reaction effects aren't that powerful as it is. If they were, people wouldn't ever buy Attacks or Reactions when they were available. A Reaction that stomps on other Reactions just seems unnecessary.

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Squatter $4
Action

+1 Buy, +$2

If you gain this, set aside another copy of this from the Supply. At the start of Clean-up this turn, put that copy into your discard pile.

Looks nice for the extremely rare instances where you'd want multiple Woodcutters. If everyone in a 6-player game goes for it, someone is going to get left out in the cold, but 6-player games suck anyhow, so no big deal.

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Demolition Team $4
Action - Reaction

Reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Trash any number of them, then discard the rest.
______________________________

When this is trashed, each player trashes a card from his hand.

This is stupid powerful. I actually made a card like this as well (although it cost 5 and worked a bit differently), before somebody pointed out that whoever bought it on a 5/2 split had a huge advantage. It's much, much more powerful than Chapel, and Chapel is already a powerhouse card. I don't think I would ever not open a game with this card. That's not even including the Reaction effect, which is cool, if potentially problematic.

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Gas Geyser $4
Action - Attack

You may discard 2 cards. If you discard 2 or more cards this way, each other player gains a Curse card, putting it on top of his deck.

Each other player discards his hand, then draws 4 cards.

This will completely kill all of your opponent's next hands. They'll essentially have a random 3-card hand (which is much, much worse than the 5-pick-3 of Militia), plus a new Curse. Even with the 'discard 2 cards' bit that probably kills your hand too, this is almost strictly more powerful than Sea Hag, and Sea Hag can already slow the game down to a crawl.

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Wayward Wanderer $5
Action

+4 Cards
______________________________

In games using this, during your Action phase, you may discard four Victory cards from your hand. If you do, reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Wayward Wanderer card. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.

Hm, even without the added benefit, +4 cards for $5 seems really powerful. Maybe I'm wrong.

Quote
Steam Locomotive $5
Action

+1 Action

Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Put them back on top of your deck in any order.

Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

Clever. I like it.

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Femme Fatale $5
Action - Attack

+1 Card, +1 Action

Discard a card. If you do, each other player discards an Action card from his hand (or reveals a hand with no Action cards).

As other posters have said, targeted Action discards encourage an only-money strategy, which usually isn't much fun for anybody.

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Counterfeiters $5
Action - Attack

Draw until you have 5 cards in hand. For each card you draw, +$1 and each other player gains a Copper.

This is incredibly powerful. If you've been hit my Militia, this is +3 Cards/+$3/each other player gains 3 Coppers? No thanks. And there are many other ways to lower your own handsize as well. A lot of the time, I'd fully expect this to quickly empty the Copper pile and for everyone's deck to be at least 75% Copper for the duration of the game.

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Impulsive Inventor $5
Action

+1 Action

Trash an Action card from your hand. Gain an Action card costing up to $2 more; put it into your hand.

Hm, sort of like a Mine for Action cards, huh? This seems really powerful at first glance, but that's tempered by the fact that a more expensive Action card is not always strictly better than a cheaper one. I'd like to see how this plays as it is before suggesting any changes.

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Mad Mechanic $6
Action

Choose three: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. (Each choice can be picked more than once.)

I think I've seen a similar idea before. Seems cool. You should probably word it like this:

Do this 3 times: Choose one: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. (Each choice can be picked more than once.)

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Drilling Machine $6
Action

Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a card that costs $5 or more. Discard that card and put the other revealed cards into your hand.

Oh, man! This could be cool in Silver-based decks or in games with lots of Curses. It's an interesting effect for sure. I'd really like to see how it plays in some actual games, since I can't get a grasp of how good it is on theory alone.

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Diplomat $6
Action

+3 Cards

Reveal any number of cards from your hand. Return the revealed cards to the Supply.

Again, why the Supply instead of the trash?

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Mastermind $6
Action - Attack

+1 Action

Each player (including you) reveals the top 10 cards of his deck, then puts them back on top of his deck in any order you choose.

I agree with all the other posters. This card just takes way too long to play. I know it's a core card of the set, but I really think you should either scrap it or give it a complete overhaul. Also, does it really need the +1 Action?

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Aerial Legion $7
Action - Attack

Each other player reveals his hand and discards a card of your choice from his hand.

When you discard this from play, you may put it anywhere in your deck.

Nope! Just one play of this could completely wipe out everyone else's turn, and more than one play is almost sure to do so. It doesn't matter how you price this card. It shouldn't exist.

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Gracious Charity $0
Treasure

$2

When you discard this from play, return it to the Supply.

Hmm, this is the first $0 card I've seen that I'd acutally try. It could be interesting. From the Black Market, it's just a cheap Silver, but I don't think there's a problem with that.

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Blood Money $5*
Treasure

$1

When you play this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$2.
______________________________

During your Buy phase, this costs $2 less per Attack card you have in play, but no less than $0.

I shudder every time I see a card named Blood Money. There are so many, and most are Treasure/Curse hybrids. I give you points for not having a Treasure/Curse hybrid in this set, by the way.

This card is effectively a cheap Gold that allows you to thin your deck. Even without the cost-reduction piece, it's overpowered. Maybe if it were just:

+$2. Trash a card from your hand.

I could see that at $5.

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Buried Ore $5
Treasure

$3
______________________________

In games using this, before you shuffle, look through your discard pile, reveal all Buried Ore cards and 2 other cards per Buried Ore and set them aside. Shuffle your discard pile into your deck, then put the set aside cards at the bottom of your deck in any order.

This does have the problem of people forgetting to separate the cards out when they shuffle. Also, perhaps it should have another penalty instead of burying two other cards with it? That could have a whole lot of AP problems, like Mastermind.

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Tenant Housing $0
Victory

1VP

When you gain this, return a card from your hand to the Supply.

I don't think I understand what this card is for. In what situations to you picture it being used? What's the card concept?

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Blue Blood $4
Victory - Reaction

Worth 1VP for every 3 Reaction cards in your deck (rounded down).
______________________________

When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return that card to the Supply or put it anywhere in your deck.

When you discard this other than during a Clean-Up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, +1 Card and +1 Action.

This is a lot of different effects for a single card. I think you should probably remove one of the Reaction effects and maybe move it to a different card. Also, I think it'd be a lot more balanced and easier to track if it just gave you +1 Card when you discarded it, not +1 Card and +1 Action.

Although I'm not too jazzed about a Victory card that counts Reaction cards in general, I think it'd have to be worth 1 VP for every 2 Reaction cards.

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Frontier $5
Action

2VP

If you gain this, set aside another copy of this from the Supply. At the start of Clean-up this turn, put that copy into your discard pile.

I'm confused. Is this an Action or a Victory card? If it's an Action that gives +2 VP chips, that's a bad idea because you can just accumulate and play these, never approaching an endgame condition.

If it's a Victory card, it's basically worth more than a Duchy, but clogs up your deck more? I guess that's OK.

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Land’s End $6
Victory

1VP

Worth an additional 2VP for each empty Supply pile.

I like this card a lot. I don't think it needs the additional 1 VP, though. 2 VP per empty Supply pile is probably plenty.
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FishingVillage

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2012, 06:10:58 pm »
0

@Diving Pikachu:

Each opponent ends up with two cards from the top of their deck placed into their discard pile. This is a blind and unbiased discard, so even if an oponent is prevented from using an important action or treasure, it is only accidental. Therefore, there is no intentional harm to your opponents, so it is not an attack. Look at Tribute, Smugglers, and Possession--but especially Possession. None of them are attacks. Tribute discards 2 cards and derives its benefits variably from whichever cards are revealed. This is essentially the same as your card, minus the fact that it is concerned only with the classification of the revealed cards instead of their specific power. Smugglers and Possession freeload off the power of an opposing player's deck and the presence of specific cards. But not even Possession, as intrusive and infuriating as it is, is a direct attack--you are given a fresh, full turn after your own, after you've been hijacked by the Possessor. Prospector is a treasure-targeted Possession. It is nothing like Thief, which can easilly cripple the buying power of a Chapel-trimmed deck.
Would you be okay with it if the player were able to choose and play 1 Treasure per player? ;)

But anyway this explanation makes sense to me. It sounds like it’s too weak, even if it were not considered an Attack. I’ll probably take this out of the list here and rethink it.

@LastFootnote:

First of all, apologies if this post repeats a lot of what's already been said. I wrote it over the course of several days. Specifically, I agree with pretty much everything Diving Pikachu has said.
I’m fine with feedback of any kind :) If it’s something I don’t feel is interesting enough to respond to, I just won’t respond. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone, since sometimes the same concerns/objections pop up, sometimes there are concerns/objections that I have no way to contest, and sometimes... maybe my response won’t be very interesting :P After the next round of responses after this one I’ll probably push out an update.

I'm not a big fan of $0 cards, since either you'd never buy them (because they're next to useless) or you can buy a whole bunch of them at once. I think this card falls into the 'never buy' catagory. If it's the only source of +2 Actions available, I'll try a Big Money strategy instead. In addition to that, it's pretty bland.
This one I’ll admit is kind of in for jokes. I like the joke though! It’s also potentially good with Replace, but I’ll admit that’s not a particularly compelling reason.

I'd rework this. Something like:

+1 Action. You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a differently named card with the same cost, putting it into your hand.

There are two reasons for this change.

1) This way you're not obligated to remove a card from your hand only to gain it back.
2) It avoids returning the card to the Supply.

Returning cards to the Supply isn't a huge deal, but in general you should avoid it if possible. For one thing, not all cards can be returned to the Supply. Anything that comes out of the Black Market deck or Prize pile, for instance. It's much cleaner if the card gets trashed. The 'differently named card' clause prevents this version from being used to quickly run down piles.
Definitely. I think having it gain a differently named card is something I’m moving towards. I think I’ll probably allow it to work on cards up to that cost as well, so that players can exchange higher cost cards for lower cost cards if they find it necessary. Those changes should hopefully give Replace more flexibility, but also make it harder to do strategies like constant IGG gaining, and will still be useful for changing strategies on the fly or dealing with Swindler.

Returning to the Supply is consciously a design detail I made, though I’m pretty open to the idea of trashing instead of returning if it becomes too bothersome. The reasonings are thus:

1. You can return cards to the Supply to purposely prolong the game, if you feel like you got a good shot at winning if you only need 1 or 2 more turns.
2. You can return cards to the Supply if you think you got a good chance at gaining back the card you returned anyway.

Also... how does Ambassador handle returning a card that was gained from the Black Market? I’m assuming that card just goes into limbo.

Hmm, interesting. My worry is that when played in multiples, it could wipe out an entire turn. However, barring some sort of King's Court super engine, it'd probably never happen because I don't think people are likely to buy it. The fact that it does nothing for your current turn is a real strike against it. If you could figure out a way to boost what it does for you and nerf what it does to each other player, it might work better.
I might be open to it providing like +$1 coin. This was a challenge to myself to see if I could create a viable $2 Attack card, and I always thought an Attack Diver would be a neat concept to try. +$2 might be pushing it. I definitely can’t see this doing +1 Card +1 Action.

This needs some rewording and reformatting, but the concept is interesting. It's the village that just won't die. I'd change the actual action effect of the card, though. +3 Actions and +1 Action/+2 Buys are both things I'd rarely want to have.
Fair to say, though I played a game with this and Gardens earlier this week, and the +2 Buys part made the game pretty stupid :( I’ll probably change the decision to be “+3 Actions or +2 Buys” or just reduce that to “+3 Actions, +1 Buy”. I definitely would prefer that Aerial Crank doesn’t give cards and/or coin, otherwise it’ll be intruding on Aerial Freighter and Aerial Crank is meant to be an enabler.

Cool idea. Does it need the additional +$1? I'm not saying it doesn't, but it seems like $2 per Action card should be plenty.
Hmmm... I guess the +$1 isn’t very meaningful. It’s more of a consolation bonus in case you don’t have Actions in hand to discard.

As a side note, it’s very interesting to hear opinions that Saloon is good enough or potentially too strong when one can get a lot of Actions into hand, compared to opinions that Reassemble is too weak because you’d need to get too many Reassembles into hand at once (both seem to be arguments about having favorable draws). This is also considering that Reassemble can slim your deck down to increase the chances of them drawing together, but Saloon cannot (but Saloon can discard any Action so I guess that’s also a good difference).

Hmm, hard to see how this would play out. I think it needs some vanilla bonus to make it worthwhile, though. After that, it would require a lot of playtesting in mutli-player games. It could potentially wipe out entire turns.
You could pick up two Scoundrels to stop everyone else from using them :) The problem then would be whether you’d like to deal with a dead Action in hand or not (if there were no village types available). I think a vanilla bonus would be pretty fun. Something similar to Ironworks but reorganized.

This is a cool idea, but seems hard to make work. It should definitely be at least $2 per additional Reassemble. Also, maybe it could somehow be non-terminal? Otherwise you have to junk up your deck way too much to make it work.
I’m okay with increasing the factor per reassemble to $2, but making it non-terminal seems like a bad idea. You’d be able to reduce your deck way too fast, and unlike Chapel, Reassembles are still fairly useful (I would hope!) after clearing out the junk. Note that Reassemble lets you choose whether or not you gain a card after trashing, so you won’t necessarily have to fill your deck with junk (unless Reassembles count as junk!).

Hm, why 'play any number of Treasure cards from your hand'? Black Market is awkward enough. No need to propagate that. Sure it combos well with Library and Watchtower as is, but if you keep your Treasure cards in hand, it combos well with Cellar and Warehouse! So you still get cool interactions without the messy rules piece.

The +1 Card/+1 Action/Dig for a Copper seems balanced and well-priced at $4, though. Cool card!
Thanks :) After reviewing this set a couple times I got the feeling that this was the most “playable” of the cards that I had in the set. I think next time we do play testing I’ll definitely introduce this one first to acclimate testers.

And also 0 is a valid number for play any number of Treasure cards, so you could still do Cellar and Warehouse with this. Maybe I should add a “you may” to make it an explicit option. I was going to let players immediately buy something from the Supply too, but that would bump it up into Market territory (you get an extra card this turn), and would probably be stronger too.

Here's the thing: this is an overpriced, underpowered Steward. The fact that I can play a card every turn isn't really a benefit if the card is weak. I'd rather be playing, and therefor buying, other cards. The effect(s) have got to be better than 'Weak Moat' and 'Terminal Silver'.
I don’t think I can really buff the individual choices and keep the “flying” part of the card though. +3 Cards makes this better than Smithy and +$3 is insane. I’d like to keep the choices to just +Cards or +$ as well, to make it sort of complementary to Aerial Crank. I guess what I could do is reduce the cost to $3.

You can basically start every turn with 6 cards in hand though (one of which would’ve been what you’ve drawn), so as a consistent advantage that sounds pretty good to me. I’d definitely like to try and see if that advantage is worth it.

This is stupid powerful. I actually made a card like this as well (although it cost 5 and worked a bit differently), before somebody pointed out that whoever bought it on a 5/2 split had a huge advantage. It's much, much more powerful than Chapel, and Chapel is already a powerhouse card. I don't think I would ever not open a game with this card. That's not even including the Reaction effect, which is cool, if potentially problematic.
I’m probably going to add on an effect to let other players trash as well. The google doc already has some changes that I’ve planned, but not yet put on this thread because I’m not completely sure yet (and I want to minimize the amount of fiddling I do here).

This will completely kill all of your opponent's next hands. They'll essentially have a random 3-card hand (which is much, much worse than the 5-pick-3 of Militia), plus a new Curse. Even with the 'discard 2 cards' bit that probably kills your hand too, this is almost strictly more powerful than Sea Hag, and Sea Hag can already slow the game down to a crawl.
Is it worth nuking your own hand though and basically losing your turn? :) Immediately off your draw, Sea Hag at least leaves you with 4 other cards to do something with, Gas Geyser leaves you with 2 if you want to curse. Discarding to put the Curse on top is also optional.

(Very nice that I’ve had at least two divergent opinions on this!)

((And yes I am of the opinion that this is probably a little better than Sea Hag just due to versatility, but I hope the power trade is well done))

Hm, even without the added benefit, +4 cards for $5 seems really powerful. Maybe I'm wrong.
Yeah someone pointed out Council Room to me earlier, and Wayward Wanderer doesn’t even have any drawbacks on it. I have something planned, but it’ll be interesting to see if it is “better” or “worse” :)

This is incredibly powerful. If you've been hit my Militia, this is +3 Cards/+$3/each other player gains 3 Coppers? No thanks. And there are many other ways to lower your own handsize as well. A lot of the time, I'd fully expect this to quickly empty the Copper pile and for everyone's deck to be at least 75% Copper for the duration of the game.
Yay inflation ;) It’s the kind of thing counterfeiters would do, make as much money as they like.

I might just make this +$2 and each other player gains 2 Copper. I kind of like it this way though, it’ll be fun to try and maximize the amount of damage it’ll do!

I think I've seen a similar idea before. Seems cool. You should probably word it like this:

Do this 3 times: Choose one: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. (Each choice can be picked more than once.)
I’ll try that instead, thanks!

Oh, man! This could be cool in Silver-based decks or in games with lots of Curses. It's an interesting effect for sure. I'd really like to see how it plays in some actual games, since I can't get a grasp of how good it is on theory alone.
You and me both! :)

Again, why the Supply instead of the trash?
1. You can return cards to the Supply to purposely prolong the game, if you feel like you got a good shot at winning some other way if you only need 1 or 2 more turns.
2. You can return cards to the Supply if you think you got a good chance at gaining back the card you returned anyway.
3. In games with Cursers, you get the chance to Curse them back :)

I agree with all the other posters. This card just takes way too long to play. I know it's a core card of the set, but I really think you should either scrap it or give it a complete overhaul. Also, does it really need the +1 Action?
Yeah I’ll probably remove this from the list on the next update T_T

The +1 Action was necessary so you could set up each other player’s deck, then follow up with something else. Mastermind to Sea Hag, Saboteur, the Thieves or Tribute for example. Or you could at least set up your next draw in case you have a draw card left to play. By itself though it needs to do some kind of damage, and being able to screw up each other player’s next turn (or 2 turns) seems like a decent attack (without resorting to strong arming methods, which is below the means of a Mastermind ;P (though she wouldn’t mind letting her peons dirty their hands)).

Nope! Just one play of this could completely wipe out everyone else's turn, and more than one play is almost sure to do so. It doesn't matter how you price this card. It shouldn't exist.
Better than a Province? :D

Okay yeah I’ll definitely remove this from the set for now. I’ll admit, an Attack card that can be played each turn would be pretty insane (possibly unworkable). Maybe just making everyone discard down to 4 is enough.

I shudder every time I see a card named Blood Money. There are so many, and most are Treasure/Curse hybrids. I give you points for not having a Treasure/Curse hybrid in this set, by the way.

This card is effectively a cheap Gold that allows you to thin your deck. Even without the cost-reduction piece, it's overpowered. Maybe if it were just:

+$2. Trash a card from your hand.

I could see that at $5.
I’m going to nerf the bonus down to +$1. I originally had Money Lender in mind when initially designing this, but this doesn’t have the same restrictions so it doesn’t make sense to try to make their effects “equally” strong. As an overpriced Silver (and later an overpriced Copper), I think it’ll still do fine against the likes of Stash and Royal Seal.

This does have the problem of people forgetting to separate the cards out when they shuffle. Also, perhaps it should have another penalty instead of burying two other cards with it? That could have a whole lot of AP problems, like Mastermind.
It’s... not necessarily a penalty. You could put green cards at the bottom to leave them out of the way. Or fetch things with Drunkard or Pearl Diver.

D:

I’m probably trying too hard to make this work. This seems to be a consistent problem with some of the cards here, I like the strategies that they can engender but I don’t want to explain them, or they take too much work or too much chance to do right.

I don't think I understand what this card is for. In what situations to you picture it being used? What's the card concept?
A viable $0 Victory card that can also help you slim your deck :P In general it could be used to get Curses out of your deck, or to try and maintain a certain deck size while trying to gain VP.

I will likely change this a little.

This is a lot of different effects for a single card. I think you should probably remove one of the Reaction effects and maybe move it to a different card. Also, I think it'd be a lot more balanced and easier to track if it just gave you +1 Card when you discarded it, not +1 Card and +1 Action.

Although I'm not too jazzed about a Victory card that counts Reaction cards in general, I think it'd have to be worth 1 VP for every 2 Reaction cards.
Making it worth 1VP per 2 Reaction cards means that whoever gets all the Blue Bloods gets 5VP each. This isn’t even counting whether or not there are other Reaction cards in the kingdom. I think that might be too good for $4, even if it requires getting all the Blue Bloods :( I might increase the cost to $5 though, considering how versatile it is (and 5VP for $5 still seems like a potentially good deal).

I’ll reduce the discard bonus to +1 Card.

I'm confused. Is this an Action or a Victory card? If it's an Action that gives +2 VP chips, that's a bad idea because you can just accumulate and play these, never approaching an endgame condition.

If it's a Victory card, it's basically worth more than a Duchy, but clogs up your deck more? I guess that's OK.
It’s a pure Victory card. Basically what happens is that when you get a Frontier, you’ll get another Frontier. So yes, you’ll end up with more VP than with just a Duchy but you’ll clog up your deck faster (and run down piles faster) :P It's unexplored land that nobody wants, so here, have some more land!

I’m trying to avoid using “gains” explicitly here, otherwise it becomes recursive.

I like this card a lot. I don't think it needs the additional 1 VP, though. 2 VP per empty Supply pile is probably plenty.
I guess I’ll try that. I originally had it priced at $8 with the 1VP, which could potentially be a more interesting decision, but maybe not.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 06:25:45 pm by FishingVillage »
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Green Opal

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2012, 08:39:38 pm »
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For the cards like Frontier, why not use the wording, 'When you buy this, gain another copy of it'? It cuts out some of the effect, but not much, and avoids the really awkward gaining-but-not-gaining text.
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FishingVillage

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2012, 08:46:56 pm »
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For the cards like Frontier, why not use the wording, 'When you buy this, gain another copy of it'? It cuts out some of the effect, but not much, and avoids the really awkwoard gaining-but-not-gaining text.
That will only apply to buying then. It won't apply to gaining, such as remodeling a Silver to a Frontier.
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