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Author Topic: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 76696 times)

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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #525 on: July 04, 2020, 06:43:18 pm »

Can't tell if you're joking or you forgot about OMGUS.

I FORGOT! Thanks. I knew it was some sort of obscure abbreviation.

Damn! Really?? I absolutely read it as sarcasm. And it was glorious.
My memory is horrible lately⁴

I looked for the footnote and didn't find it.
I forgot to add it.
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #526 on: July 04, 2020, 07:21:34 pm »

Vote Count 1.final

scolapasta (7): WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, jotheonah, 2.71828....., Robz888, mail-mi, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (5): Swowl, MiX, yuma, shraeye, scolapasta
Not Voting (1): Galzria

With 13 alive it takes 7 to exile.

Happy 4th everyone!

Iíll get into this tomorrow.

But two separate scum teams made two separate choices and both chose on wagon players.
Iíll do the work tomorrow, but [Swowl, MiX, Yuma, Shraeye, Galz] will probably be a good jumping off point.

I think scum probably was focusing on two things:

- not targeting the same team as each other
- trying to hit the doctor

Neither of those considerations is particularly related to wagon position.
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #527 on: July 04, 2020, 07:33:05 pm »

Day2 joth is suddenly saying much of what I am 5hinking. Wagon analysis for that purpose is rarely useful and certainly misses how I think about NKs as scum, but especially in this game.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #528 on: July 04, 2020, 09:00:35 pm »

Can't tell if you're joking or you forgot about OMGUS.

I FORGOT! Thanks. I knew it was some sort of obscure abbreviation.

Damn! Really?? I absolutely read it as sarcasm. And it was glorious.
My memory is horrible lately⁴

Day2 joth is suddenly saying much of what I am 5hinking. Wagon analysis for that purpose is rarely useful and certainly misses how I think about NKs as scum, but especially in this game.

What exactly are you going for here?
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #529 on: July 04, 2020, 09:07:42 pm »

Can't tell if you're joking or you forgot about OMGUS.

I FORGOT! Thanks. I knew it was some sort of obscure abbreviation.

Damn! Really?? I absolutely read it as sarcasm. And it was glorious.
My memory is horrible lately⁴

Day2 joth is suddenly saying much of what I am 5hinking. Wagon analysis for that purpose is rarely useful and certainly misses how I think about NKs as scum, but especially in this game.

What exactly are you going for here?
Who knows...

I am basically saying I have opinions, but they are based on metas and ideas of yesteryear and my memory of them are questionable...

But! I do know that when I am mafia the choice of killing on or off wagon is basically never a main reason for a NK. Here in this game there are multiple higher priorities for the NK: Doctor hunting, other team hunting, making sure NK isn't doctored or duplicated, making sure not take out likely misexiles.

So basically saying I agree with joth a disagree with Swowl that using wagon analysis for a vote justification seems insufficient. I think that is something Swowl relies on but doesn't work as much here.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #530 on: July 04, 2020, 09:15:08 pm »

I meant why are you putting random numbers in your posts
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #531 on: July 04, 2020, 10:37:59 pm »

I meant why are you putting random numbers in your posts
Typos
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #532 on: July 04, 2020, 11:09:16 pm »

Good morning!

Itís a holiday weekend so Iím likely to be scarce. But then again, I live in a small tourist town where people are freaking crazy so we may be bored and locked inside because the folks on the Outside cannot be trusted. Weíll see....  I hope you all have something fun going on!

The ADK votes donít seem bad or lazy, although that response is.

Iím still town. So, it would be better if we lunched one of the baddies.

MiXís ease with the idea of scum me is not characteristic. But scum Yuma, I remember. Plus, at least one of my three guesses was probably correct.

Vote: Yuma

Your fluff has been normal fluff from you - but whatís off is that your game-related opinions and thoughts are a little more cutting than usual.

I did not appreciate being accused of being inauthentic. I know it is the game and itís not personal, but my feelings were hurt. That was the reference in my comment about being on tilt. Tilt is my word for feeling wounded. So Iím having trouble developing a sense of fun and mutual appreciation in this game. Iím not still hurt,  but I got sort of depleted in the process.

I wonít be sad if I get exiled because Iím not sure this dynamic is my jam. But if I donít defend myself, and get mis-xed we have a way harder time winning. So, Iím trying to suck it up.

So, if Iím reading as terse of cutting, yeah, I guess. Itís not my preferred way of being in the world.
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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #533 on: July 05, 2020, 06:39:06 pm »

The things west has consistently responded to are things that deal with how others are perceiving and are more on the personal side. As a result the defense, naturally and appropriately, on those points are more appeals to emotion.

But, west hasn't responded to the points about actual game play. And those are the points I most want a response on, but haven't received. Al though to be fair I haven't specifically asked. Am I the only one that seems those points as significant?
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #534 on: July 05, 2020, 06:41:15 pm »

The things west has consistently responded to are things that deal with how others are perceiving and are more on the personal side. As a result the defense, naturally and appropriately, on those points are more appeals to emotion.

But, west hasn't responded to the points about actual game play. And those are the points I most want a response on, but haven't received. Al though to be fair I haven't specifically asked. Am I the only one that seems those points as significant?

No.

There, that's my post for today.

Pushing Didds is anti-town. We can exile her, but pushing is terrible, which only makes me want to get rid of her as fast as possible.

yuma broke the ice, you can all come out of hiding now.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #535 on: July 05, 2020, 06:43:13 pm »

The things west has consistently responded to are things that deal with how others are perceiving and are more on the personal side. As a result the defense, naturally and appropriately, on those points are more appeals to emotion.

But, west hasn't responded to the points about actual game play. And those are the points I most want a response on, but haven't received. Al though to be fair I haven't specifically asked. Am I the only one that seems those points as significant?

If I understand your position correctly, you're saying that didds had a lack of strong reads and a passive playstyle D1, which I feel like describes a lot of players' D1 playstyle, and certainly describes how didds usually plays
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Swowl

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #536 on: July 05, 2020, 06:49:16 pm »

Vote Count 1.final

scolapasta (7): WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, jotheonah, 2.71828....., Robz888, mail-mi, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (5): Swowl, MiX, yuma, shraeye, scolapasta
Not Voting (1): Galzria

With 13 alive it takes 7 to exile.

Happy 4th everyone!

Iíll get into this tomorrow.

But two separate scum teams made two separate choices and both chose on wagon players.
Iíll do the work tomorrow, but [Swowl, MiX, Yuma, Shraeye, Galz] will probably be a good jumping off point.

I think scum probably was focusing on two things:

- not targeting the same team as each other
- trying to hit the doctor

Neither of those considerations is particularly related to wagon position.

right, yeah that is fair enough in theory. However, we have to remember that Skum Team A does not know who Skum team B is. So, in reality what i would assume to be actually true is simply; shoot other skum >  shoot the doctor > shoot VT.

Now all that being said I actually do not think that they would even care all that much about the doctor at this point in the set up. Doctor shots are based on reads, reads could be wrong. I mean yeah they will put their kill above VT in  terms of value, but it would just be happenstance, I don't think they plan for it.

Pretty much - I think that the only thing in terms of what Skum was thinking about at night that actually played into their kill selection is trying to shoot other skum.

(So yeah - all of the above is me kind of agreeing with you I guess). But wait there's more!

PPE 3
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #537 on: July 05, 2020, 07:01:53 pm »

The things west has consistently responded to are things that deal with how others are perceiving and are more on the personal side. As a result the defense, naturally and appropriately, on those points are more appeals to emotion.

But, west hasn't responded to the points about actual game play. And those are the points I most want a response on, but haven't received. Al though to be fair I haven't specifically asked. Am I the only one that seems those points as significant?

No.

There, that's my post for today.

Pushing Didds is anti-town. We can exile her, but pushing is terrible, which only makes me want to get rid of her as fast as possible.

yuma broke the ice, you can all come out of hiding now.
vote: mix

Least useful post ever
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #538 on: July 05, 2020, 07:03:33 pm »

What's the vote for?
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #539 on: July 05, 2020, 07:03:53 pm »

Someone else can take a turn.

And FYI my work recently became hellish again. Two employees are out on quarantine protocol for at least a week.... maybe 2. So my availability is maybe a few minutes during breaks and late evenings.
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #540 on: July 05, 2020, 07:04:13 pm »

What's the vote for?
For not being helpful
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #541 on: July 05, 2020, 07:05:49 pm »

What's the vote for?
For not being helpful

Here's help: don't make Didds freeze the thread by pushing her based on nothing.

What do you want me to do? I could've stayed silent, is that what you wanted?
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Swowl

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #542 on: July 05, 2020, 07:12:35 pm »

...more....

We had several large-ish wagons yesterday. However, the main ones (bc RVS, size, timing) would be; Pasta and ADK.

It is kind of hard to do this without a skum flip, but let's start here...

If ADK is skum, then...
1) I agree that it is very unlikely that their partner would not be on Pasta.
2) I also do not think they would be one of the players that ended on Pasta, but were on ADK.

Now we have no way of knowing if ADK is skum or not, so that really doesn't help us right? Except then I look at who was voting for ADK, or not voting for Pasta rather; [Swowl, MiX, Yuma, Shraeye, Galz].

So here is the Swowl "I am forcing VCA down your throat, I will find a way to at least make it make some sense" theory.... Here are the scenarios for the wagons for us to look at:

a) Town!Scola, Town!ADK - Skum A knows other Skum A, and Skum B knows other Skum B. All skum however, would be 100% ok with either of these wagons.

b) Town!Scola, SkumA!ADK - Skum Team A other is 100% on Pasta there. Unfortunately, no real way of pounding that one out. They could of either been sitting up in the front half and not moving because partner was only other option, or they could be an off wagoner that moved to Pasta in the later end.... both possible. OK - buttttt... skum Team B would be treating this scenario the same as Situation A above here. It might as well be town v town to them (bc in this case it is just 2 wagons that are NOT Skum B).
So they would be split - firmly believe that. I also firmly believe that talking about why I think that is def not the best right now, but like tomorrow probably, or after we flip a skum... if people need it I can give my reasons. But I think it is right.

c) Town!Scola, SkumB!ADK - Exact same thing as "b)", just reversed.


So that may be a little ramble-y, so here is the TLDR:

Either ADK is town or ADK is skum.
 - If ADK is town then there were two teams of 2 who would of been completely fine with being on EITHER wagon, as it is would be town v town.
 - If ADK is skum, then the skum team that does not consist of ADK would probably have one player on ADK and one player on Pasta. Additionally, ADK's partner would be on Pasta.

So really, there is a pretty decent chance that there are between 2-3 skum on Pasta there (3 if ADK is skum).

So yeah that is kind of the exact opposite logic as what I mini posted yesterday - but as I mentioned, after reconsidering, Joth and Yuma are correct, the VCA is way different and WAYYY less valuable this game in this set up.
So I guess it is just more of a jumping off point.... I guess I still am going with ADK for now because outside of VCA that is still who I find the most skummy.

Vote: ADK

PPE 5
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #543 on: July 05, 2020, 07:13:54 pm »

What's the vote for?
For not being helpful

Here's help: don't make Didds freeze the thread by pushing her based on nothing.

What do you want me to do? I could've stayed silent, is that what you wanted?
I dont think I pushed her on nothing.... Your first post didnt say that nor did it say why it was about nothing, but I guess I didnt specifically ask for that.... Thanks for clarifying but I am keeping my vote.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #544 on: July 05, 2020, 07:17:47 pm »

It feels like Yuma wants me to have some kind of big insight about the folks or the game. But his insight seems to comprised entirely of finding me scummy for assorted reasons that are all basically tied to me intrinsically.

What do I think? I didnít like that ADK ended the day early, especially since Galz had just shown up. Galz not showing up until then was not helpful, and would be scummy if it wasnít Galz. MiX is irritated right now (sorry, didnít mean to freeze the thread) so heís not fully engaged. But Yuma is trying to make his efforts to create some sort of case on me seem far more laudable than they are.

PPE : Deux
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #545 on: July 05, 2020, 07:20:02 pm »

I dont think I pushed her on nothing.... Your first post didnt say that nor did it say why it was about nothing, but I guess I didnt specifically ask for that.... Thanks for clarifying but I am keeping my vote.

I'm not talking about you alone, you know.


As for Swowl's wall post...is the conclusion that you can't take away conclusions? If so, why are you voting ADK?

PPE 1
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #546 on: July 05, 2020, 07:22:55 pm »

When you respond to my post I am always going to assume you are talking to me.

I won't be posting for a bit. I feel like I am detracting from content being generated and want to hear what others have to say before I get more set on anything.
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #547 on: July 05, 2020, 07:29:22 pm »

When you respond to my post I am always going to assume you are talking to me.

I won't be posting for a bit. I feel like I am detracting from content being generated and want to hear what others have to say before I get more set on anything.

Sorry, the part about your post ended after the "No", I guess that wasn't clear.
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Swowl

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #548 on: July 05, 2020, 08:46:42 pm »

I dont think I pushed her on nothing.... Your first post didnt say that nor did it say why it was about nothing, but I guess I didnt specifically ask for that.... Thanks for clarifying but I am keeping my vote.

I'm not talking about you alone, you know.


As for Swowl's wall post...is the conclusion that you can't take away conclusions? If so, why are you voting ADK?

PPE 1

pretty much. at least for now. ADK because I skum read them yesterday and that hasn't changed today.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #549 on: July 05, 2020, 11:31:00 pm »

Holiday weekend is over, will catch up during lunch break tomorrow.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)
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