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Author Topic: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 94349 times)

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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #400 on: June 30, 2020, 09:58:06 pm »

PPE: Uh remember that post that Robz said you looked like scola's partner? Yeah, that.
I don't follow.
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #401 on: June 30, 2020, 10:00:17 pm »

Also, readlists are pro-town. We want to help scum scumhunt, they're vigs.

This is a good point. Yeah, scum-to-chum lists are better in this setup, actually. That I will concede.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #402 on: June 30, 2020, 10:01:19 pm »

This is a very different yuma from the hyper logical scum finder I remember, though admittedly it's been several years. Feels like he's trying out a new personae, which might be different than being scum.

I think I most want to exile scolapasta.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #403 on: June 30, 2020, 10:06:33 pm »

This is a very different yuma from the hyper logical scum finder I remember, though admittedly it's been several years. Feels like he's trying out a new personae, which might be different than being scum.

I think I most want to exile scolapasta.

I am coming into this game with the goal of just having fun. I stopped having fun and got too... I don't know caught up in the concept of the game. So yeah. I am quite a bit different.

My first game back I was pretty horrible at scum hunting though. I... in this order.

Argued against a scum exile Day2 (Day1 was a no-exile)
Argued against a scum exile Day3 while pushing for an exile of someone who was town
Argued against a scum exile Day4
Was misexiled Day5 for my terrible reads

It was bad. But we won! And I had fun!
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #404 on: June 30, 2020, 10:09:28 pm »

But more importantly:
I’m also very comfortable with both the ADK and scola lynches. I feel adk’s early posts felt like scum trying to misrepresent and push players in a scummy way, scola felt like newbie scum with as joth said pretty sheepish behavior.

Since then ADK has leveled off in scummy behavior and some the reactions both positively and negatively toward the scola wagon have enhanced my scum read (other townreads of mine feel similarly+Yuma’s strange partnery defense)
the points about ADK and scola. Like take a stand. Or just float along and go with it without actually landing somewhere.

OK. Break it down for me. What is "strange" "partnery" and "defense" about what I have said about scola?

vote: mcmc

Its this post
If anyone is getting misrepresented here it is Scola. No vote from me there.

and
Yuma, I can actually see the case, however mistaken, against me.

Why are you so sure I'm town?
I am not. But I will speak up against cases that originate from deceit or falsehood.

You defended scola saying he was being misrepresented and that you would't vote for him. It was strange because it's not like anyone was specifically asking you about scola and you werent directly responding to someone's point, it came as a bit of a suprise. It was partnery because you didn't explaining why he was being misrepresented and when asked by scola himself you were clear you aren't sure hes town just that you had to speak up. It came across less like "hey lets be careful I think scola is town for X and Y" and more "I must stop this, back off and don't call scola scummy".
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

scolapasta

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #405 on: June 30, 2020, 10:12:30 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.

This is a fundamentally different setup than normal mafia.

Note to self: don't talk about setup.

Why not talk about setup?

(ongoing game)

Just because I'm slow, you mean because there's a different ongoing game with two scum teams? I mean, its setup is different, but I guess generally the same, so if that's it I understand your point.

But I guess it feels weird to me, because talking about setup can be useful, maybe? So in that way, that game is affecting this game.

But maybe I'm just misunderstanding it all.

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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #406 on: June 30, 2020, 10:18:35 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.

This is a fundamentally different setup than normal mafia.

Note to self: don't talk about setup.

Why not talk about setup?

(ongoing game)

Just because I'm slow, you mean because there's a different ongoing game with two scum teams? I mean, its setup is different, but I guess generally the same, so if that's it I understand your point.

But I guess it feels weird to me, because talking about setup can be useful, maybe? So in that way, that game is affecting this game.

But maybe I'm just misunderstanding it all.

I don't know the specifics of whats going on so its safe to say typically if people say ongoing game it has to do with the fact that a player could be modding or dead or a scum partner or a power role, or a different alignment in another game that is currently ongoing and so they may have some thoughts or knowledge that they learned in that game that they cannot share in this game as it indirectly would be talking about things going on in an ongoing game.


On the other hand the general reason talking about the setup is dangerous is the innate fact that town has less information than scum and town is more likely to tip off scum when discussing the setup. In this game taking hard stances on being pro claim or anti claim could tip scum off to which players are and are not likely the doctor.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #407 on: June 30, 2020, 10:52:16 pm »

This game is strange, because there are the two small teams, I feel like the patterns we are looking for are different.  I'm really not interested in the standard "A said something weird so they're scum".  ADK and scola both seem to be on the line for fake scumhunting, well nobody's incentivized to do that, so it's hardly a scumtepl here.  Neither exile feels wrong or awesome though.

I feel like our best bet is to pivot (PIVOT!!) to a totally different exile.  Rather than looking for who's defending who (which is gonna be so much more fruitful in standard 3-scum setup), we should look for who's playing it safest. 

Off the top of my head that's Galz, e, mail-mi.

Vote: Galz

I know some of that is not-aroundedness. But playing it safe isn't just a synonym for low post count.  Once I'm at a compy imma check my instincts

Scola isn’t on the line for fake scum hunting it’s more specifically voting with out a strong reason, explaining the vote later when pressed with an explaination that doesn’t hold up logically with what happened at the time. (Check my prior post about the setup discussion and mail-mi, ADK, myself, joth and robz reactions with scola picking robz our of that). He’s is also being accused of acting like newbie overly sheepish, overly qualifying scum, many of his posts have had unnecessary jokey tone or greetings and he has bent quietly to the votes and cases against him.

I get that scum has more insentive to truly scumhunt and so “poor reasoning” and fake scum hunting” are less than ideal cases in this setup but they are much better than a total lurker exile which is essentially what a galz vote is for.

And yet this is your first game with me. That jokey tome or greeting is very normal for me D1. Look at any of my past, ended games.

my vote did have a reason. Not strong, because, well, D1. I don't agree with my explanation not holding up with any logic, though I think people wondering why I picked Robz over the other doctor reveal early suggesters is sensible. But I also din't think it was illogical.

I'm not sure what you mean by overly sheepish and overly qualifying scum. I also think it's interesting that I could in theory be all these scum newbie things, but there's no allowance there for just general town newbie. (I have only played a handful of games on here, two of which I was gone by D2).

I don't agree with the ADK wagon (though of course pondered voting that way for self preservation). And I am worried about starting a new wagon, because I agree we don't want to wait until last minute to consolidate. So I haven't put a vote in.

But I've been told new wagons are not antitown (do you agree), so if that's the case, Ill throw a vote in, after all:

vote: mcmcsalot

I do agree with you that voting a lurker isn't very practical right now.

So it looks like we agree the vote was weak and your explanation was lacking the really solid logic of why specifically robz over others.

I do think it could be general newness as well but the fact that it is tied to you making a vote on someone leans new scum. New town is likely to hold on to their thought if its not strong or clear, new scum feels more compelled to contribute and thus might make a weaker less logically explainable vote.



Overly sheepish and qualifying behavior below. This could very well be how you talk, I have not played with you before but it think scum more often adds words that are unneeded because they sound better when reread:
Whew(qualifier), and my vote wasn't strictly rvs(sheepish, is it or isn't it and if its both maybe elaborate as more info comes about)

Ha, pretty sure(not strong opinion)

This is outside of game discussion and then tagged with the fact that you still like your robz vote but might consider didds or mix.(might consider indicates not a strong read on any of the players you have decided to talk about which is weird for town to do because if you only might consider why even mention it.)

Here you get voted for being one of the players who was saying you would vote for didds without actually voting for her and you give your reason then triple down on liking your robz vote which you have gone on to say is weak and was slightly rvs to start.

You then go back and reread at my pressure for a reason for your vote and it prompts you to unvote. So why during the three times were you still so confident that you needed to reitorate you still like the robz vote to then just go ah yea it's not a great vote. Obviously if you are town and just made a bad vote it sucks to then get more scumread for backing off but its that the pattern is not one of oh yea that vote was bad its an inbetween world where you think the vote was okay, its just day one, you reitorate a bunchm then you decide nevermind its bad. It seems like scum bending to pressure after having made a vote and read that didn't hold up.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #408 on: June 30, 2020, 10:58:30 pm »

I don't agree with the ADK wagon (though of course pondered voting that way for self preservation). And I am worried about starting a new wagon, because I agree we don't want to wait until last minute to consolidate. So I haven't put a vote in.

But I've been told new wagons are not antitown (do you agree), so if that's the case, Ill throw a vote in, after all:

vote: mcmcsalot

I do agree with you that voting a lurker isn't very practical right now.

Go back and reread the ADK wagon and bring why specifically you don't like it. Is it a weak reasoned wagon? Are the players pushing the wagon scummy? Does it look coordinated? Are there players ignoring the wagon entirely? If you feel a way about the wagon hit it from every angle to figure out why you feel that way and then see where that leads you.

New wagons are not anti town. Wagons that are extremely unlikely to go anywhere and serve only to distract from town discussing the main wagons are anti town. If you want to start a new wagon because you find something that you think is scummy and you think noone else has said anything about it that is pro town all the way.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #409 on: June 30, 2020, 11:14:26 pm »

Post Count 1.0, mid day 1


53 (55-2): MiX
42 (44-2): yuma

36 (37-1): mcmcsalot
36 (39-3): Robz888
32 (37-5): WestCoastDidds
30 (32-2): jotheonah
29 (31-3): mail-mi
29 (30-1): A Drowned Kernel

21 (22-1): scolapasta
19 (20-2): Swowl
18 (20-2): 2.71828.....
13 (14-1): shraeye

4 (7-3): Galzria
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #410 on: June 30, 2020, 11:22:46 pm »

Main take aways from the post count is that oh my galz is literally nonexsistant. He did say he was going to reread and content would follow but that should have been yesterday. Shraeye voting Galz is even scummier that it originally seemed because shraeye is also the next least posting player by a significant margin.

I will not vote for Mix or Yuma today.

other than that nothing huge, () are total count minus pre game start posts. Future vote counts can take total posts less the same number.

Also if everyone could put a shuffle it username it helps ctrl+f your post total, otherwise I have to use the number of posts you have made which I think can change if you go and make a thread.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #411 on: June 30, 2020, 11:52:22 pm »

Post Count 1.0, mid day 1
What work!
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Swowl

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #412 on: June 30, 2020, 11:59:49 pm »

holy crap - Robz has 36 posts on day 1?
... is what I take away from that
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real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #413 on: July 01, 2020, 12:03:39 am »

Also, readlists are pro-town. We want to help scum scumhunt, they're vigs.

This is a good point. Yeah, scum-to-chum lists are better in this setup, actually. That I will concede.

gonna chalk this one up into the "probably shouldn't talk about it" category.
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #414 on: July 01, 2020, 12:05:19 am »

Main take aways from the post count is that oh my galz is literally nonexsistant. He did say he was going to reread and content would follow but that should have been yesterday. Shraeye voting Galz is even scummier that it originally seemed because shraeye is also the next least posting player by a significant margin.

Come join me on shraeye!
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shraeye

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #415 on: July 01, 2020, 12:47:48 am »

Main take aways from the post count is that oh my galz is literally nonexsistant. He did say he was going to reread and content would follow but that should have been yesterday. Shraeye voting Galz is even scummier that it originally seemed because shraeye is also the next least posting player by a significant margin.

I will not vote for Mix or Yuma today.

other than that nothing huge, () are total count minus pre game start posts. Future vote counts can take total posts less the same number.

Also if everyone could put a shuffle it username it helps ctrl+f your post total, otherwise I have to use the number of posts you have made which I think can change if you go and make a thread.
So you're saying that if I post more, then I'll get off your radar?  How bout I just keep being me and you do more than this tedious yet lazy scumhunting
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shraeye

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #416 on: July 01, 2020, 12:55:53 am »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Which one of those do you think is my partner?

Not sure yet. Give me a break, I found all four scum already...

Two of those people I built cases on and are at the top of my want to lunch list, the other one had multiple people including you and me call out a potential partner reaction so while I’m super glad we agree on who is scum I’m curious where you think I fit in.

Yes, I'm sure as mafia you would never even think to put a partner at the top of your "want to lunch" list.
I would do this anytime.  Have done this anytime.  We won't find scum by seeing who's defending who.  Assuming it will play out that way (and publically doing it) will definitely backfire
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #417 on: July 01, 2020, 04:01:44 am »

Didds was not wrong when she said this game had a weird, duderiffic energy.

I think it’s because Yuma and Robz and mcmc are all back and they’re playing the game as we played it when they left but our meta as a community has evolved since then and so there’s a slight mismatch. That mismatch is making everyone see everyone else as plying the game wrong. Plus it’s an “everything you know is wrong” sort of a setup on top of that.

Anyway, y’all are silly about reads lists. They’re pro-town and here’s why: town have actual genuine reads. Scum have fake reads (less true than normal here, but still true). It’s pro-town to make scum commit to their fake reads and put them down on paper because it limits their options later or gives us the opportunity to catch them in a contradiction.

The number one way that scum gets exiled is they get caught in A lie. Promoting an atmosphere of “everybody play it close to the vest” just gives the scum team cover to avoid lying and therefore getting caught.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Between mcmc and Scola I’d rather exile Scola today because mcmc is being pretty helpful and I’d rather keep him around, even if he’s scum.
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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #418 on: July 01, 2020, 04:36:40 am »

Just have to say, that was a fun read catching up. You all are so funny
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #419 on: July 01, 2020, 07:12:56 am »

So is mcmc scumreading scola or what?

I feel like Robz has to be scum this game. Would he try this hard D1 as town? But I also feel like scum doesn't want to try hard in this setup anyway.
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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #420 on: July 01, 2020, 07:18:55 am »

So is mcmc scumreading scola or what?

I feel like Robz has to be scum this game. Would he try this hard D1 as town? But I also feel like scum doesn't want to try hard in this setup anyway.

"Try hard" arguments are bad arguments
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #421 on: July 01, 2020, 07:19:43 am »

So is mcmc scumreading scola or what?

I feel like Robz has to be scum this game. Would he try this hard D1 as town? But I also feel like scum doesn't want to try hard in this setup anyway.

Also, scum wants to scum hunt and find the other team. So if anything scum will try harder
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #422 on: July 01, 2020, 07:20:40 am »

Didds was not wrong when she said this game had a weird, duderiffic energy.

I think it’s because Yuma and Robz and mcmc are all back and they’re playing the game as we played it when they left but our meta as a community has evolved since then and so there’s a slight mismatch. That mismatch is making everyone see everyone else as plying the game wrong. Plus it’s an “everything you know is wrong” sort of a setup on top of that.

Anyway, y’all are silly about reads lists. They’re pro-town and here’s why: town have actual genuine reads. Scum have fake reads (less true than normal here, but still true). It’s pro-town to make scum commit to their fake reads and put them down on paper because it limits their options later or gives us the opportunity to catch them in a contradiction.

The number one way that scum gets exiled is they get caught in A lie. Promoting an atmosphere of “everybody play it close to the vest” just gives the scum team cover to avoid lying and therefore getting caught.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Between mcmc and Scola I’d rather exile Scola today because mcmc is being pretty helpful and I’d rather keep him around, even if he’s scum.

Joth being townie here
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #423 on: July 01, 2020, 08:09:51 am »

So is mcmc scumreading scola or what?

I feel like Robz has to be scum this game. Would he try this hard D1 as town? But I also feel like scum doesn't want to try hard in this setup anyway.

I am scum reading scola but I have recognized what I think to be newbie scum. He brought up that he’s new here and I haven’t played with him much so he could be newbie town and if that is the case I want to help him “show his work” so to speak so I can better understand if he is scummy or towny.

I would expect robz to be trying hard as either alignment this game, he has to have been excited for it he let me know he was playing and we haven’t gotten to do much together In the last few months. His higher post count actually makes me lean pretty towny on him for the day as scum robz would be “helping” in less words. Tone robz helps by getting his thoughts out in the open.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #424 on: July 01, 2020, 08:10:20 am »

Just have to say, that was a fun read catching up. You all are so funny

Anything more specific to say?
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)
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