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Author Topic: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 94341 times)

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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #375 on: June 30, 2020, 09:09:40 pm »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #376 on: June 30, 2020, 09:17:07 pm »

This game is strange, because there are the two small teams, I feel like the patterns we are looking for are different.  I'm really not interested in the standard "A said something weird so they're scum".  ADK and scola both seem to be on the line for fake scumhunting, well nobody's incentivized to do that, so it's hardly a scumtepl here.  Neither exile feels wrong or awesome though.

I feel like our best bet is to pivot (PIVOT!!) to a totally different exile.  Rather than looking for who's defending who (which is gonna be so much more fruitful in standard 3-scum setup), we should look for who's playing it safest. 

Off the top of my head that's Galz, e, mail-mi.

Vote: Galz

I know some of that is not-aroundedness. But playing it safe isn't just a synonym for low post count.  Once I'm at a compy imma check my instincts

Scola isn’t on the line for fake scum hunting it’s more specifically voting with out a strong reason, explaining the vote later when pressed with an explaination that doesn’t hold up logically with what happened at the time. (Check my prior post about the setup discussion and mail-mi, ADK, myself, joth and robz reactions with scola picking robz our of that). He’s is also being accused of acting like newbie overly sheepish, overly qualifying scum, many of his posts have had unnecessary jokey tone or greetings and he has bent quietly to the votes and cases against him.

I get that scum has more insentive to truly scumhunt and so “poor reasoning” and fake scum hunting” are less than ideal cases in this setup but they are much better than a total lurker exile which is essentially what a galz vote is for.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #377 on: June 30, 2020, 09:18:53 pm »

This game is strange, because there are the two small teams, I feel like the patterns we are looking for are different.  I'm really not interested in the standard "A said something weird so they're scum".  ADK and scola both seem to be on the line for fake scumhunting, well nobody's incentivized to do that, so it's hardly a scumtepl here.  Neither exile feels wrong or awesome though.

I feel like our best bet is to pivot (PIVOT!!) to a totally different exile.  Rather than looking for who's defending who (which is gonna be so much more fruitful in standard 3-scum setup), we should look for who's playing it safest. 

Off the top of my head that's Galz, e, mail-mi.

Vote: Galz

I know some of that is not-aroundedness. But playing it safe isn't just a synonym for low post count.  Once I'm at a compy imma check my instincts

Scola isn’t on the line for fake scum hunting it’s more specifically voting with out a strong reason, explaining the vote later when pressed with an explaination that doesn’t hold up logically with what happened at the time. (Check my prior post about the setup discussion and mail-mi, ADK, myself, joth and robz reactions with scola picking robz our of that). He’s is also being accused of acting like newbie overly sheepish, overly qualifying scum, many of his posts have had unnecessary jokey tone or greetings and he has bent quietly to the votes and cases against him.

I get that scum has more insentive to truly scumhunt and so “poor reasoning” and fake scum hunting” are less than ideal cases in this setup but they are much better than a total lurker exile which is essentially what a galz vote is for.

Shraeye's pivot to Galz is weid because, Galz hasn't done ANYTHING, and while that's frustrating, I can't imagine we end up lynching lurker Galz on Day 1.
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #378 on: June 30, 2020, 09:18:59 pm »

weird*
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #379 on: June 30, 2020, 09:19:09 pm »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Which one of those do you think is my partner?
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #380 on: June 30, 2020, 09:20:30 pm »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Which one of those do you think is my partner?

Not sure yet. Give me a break, I found all four scum already...
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #381 on: June 30, 2020, 09:22:55 pm »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Which one of those do you think is my partner?

Not sure yet. Give me a break, I found all four scum already...

Two of those people I built cases on and are at the top of my want to lunch list, the other one had multiple people including you and me call out a potential partner reaction so while I’m super glad we agree on who is scum I’m curious where you think I fit in.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #382 on: June 30, 2020, 09:24:47 pm »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Which one of those do you think is my partner?

Not sure yet. Give me a break, I found all four scum already...

Two of those people I built cases on and are at the top of my want to lunch list, the other one had multiple people including you and me call out a potential partner reaction so while I’m super glad we agree on who is scum I’m curious where you think I fit in.

Yes, I'm sure as mafia you would never even think to put a partner at the top of your "want to lunch" list.
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #383 on: June 30, 2020, 09:26:50 pm »

I would never put my partner at a top of my "want to lunch" list in this setup.
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #384 on: June 30, 2020, 09:27:54 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #385 on: June 30, 2020, 09:29:07 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.

This is a fundamentally different setup than normal mafia.

Note to self: don't talk about setup.
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #386 on: June 30, 2020, 09:29:49 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.

This is a fundamentally different setup than normal mafia.

Note to self: don't talk about setup.

I realize it's different setup, but I don't see how this general principle is different here.
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scolapasta

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #387 on: June 30, 2020, 09:34:19 pm »

This game is strange, because there are the two small teams, I feel like the patterns we are looking for are different.  I'm really not interested in the standard "A said something weird so they're scum".  ADK and scola both seem to be on the line for fake scumhunting, well nobody's incentivized to do that, so it's hardly a scumtepl here.  Neither exile feels wrong or awesome though.

I feel like our best bet is to pivot (PIVOT!!) to a totally different exile.  Rather than looking for who's defending who (which is gonna be so much more fruitful in standard 3-scum setup), we should look for who's playing it safest. 

Off the top of my head that's Galz, e, mail-mi.

Vote: Galz

I know some of that is not-aroundedness. But playing it safe isn't just a synonym for low post count.  Once I'm at a compy imma check my instincts

Scola isn’t on the line for fake scum hunting it’s more specifically voting with out a strong reason, explaining the vote later when pressed with an explaination that doesn’t hold up logically with what happened at the time. (Check my prior post about the setup discussion and mail-mi, ADK, myself, joth and robz reactions with scola picking robz our of that). He’s is also being accused of acting like newbie overly sheepish, overly qualifying scum, many of his posts have had unnecessary jokey tone or greetings and he has bent quietly to the votes and cases against him.

I get that scum has more insentive to truly scumhunt and so “poor reasoning” and fake scum hunting” are less than ideal cases in this setup but they are much better than a total lurker exile which is essentially what a galz vote is for.

And yet this is your first game with me. That jokey tome or greeting is very normal for me D1. Look at any of my past, ended games.

my vote did have a reason. Not strong, because, well, D1. I don't agree with my explanation not holding up with any logic, though I think people wondering why I picked Robz over the other doctor reveal early suggesters is sensible. But I also din't think it was illogical.

I'm not sure what you mean by overly sheepish and overly qualifying scum. I also think it's interesting that I could in theory be all these scum newbie things, but there's no allowance there for just general town newbie. (I have only played a handful of games on here, two of which I was gone by D2).

I don't agree with the ADK wagon (though of course pondered voting that way for self preservation). And I am worried about starting a new wagon, because I agree we don't want to wait until last minute to consolidate. So I haven't put a vote in.

But I've been told new wagons are not antitown (do you agree), so if that's the case, Ill throw a vote in, after all:

vote: mcmcsalot

I do agree with you that voting a lurker isn't very practical right now.
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scolapasta

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #388 on: June 30, 2020, 09:34:46 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.

This is a fundamentally different setup than normal mafia.

Note to self: don't talk about setup.

Why not talk about setup?
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #389 on: June 30, 2020, 09:37:20 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.

This is a fundamentally different setup than normal mafia.

Note to self: don't talk about setup.

Why not talk about setup?

(ongoing game)
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #390 on: June 30, 2020, 09:38:04 pm »

Fifty first rule of mafia don't talk about not talking about ongoing games
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #391 on: June 30, 2020, 09:38:32 pm »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Can I do an impression of you?
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #392 on: June 30, 2020, 09:39:47 pm »

Fifty first rule of mafia don't talk about not talking about ongoing games

Are you drunk again?

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Can I do an impression of you?

Yes.
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #393 on: June 30, 2020, 09:40:30 pm »

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Can I do an impression of you?

Be my guest!
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #394 on: June 30, 2020, 09:41:13 pm »

Putting a partner at the top of a "want to lunch" list is probably an important component of a scum strategy. Honestly, I think the best reason not to do it would be it's sort of expected from scum anyway.

This is a fundamentally different setup than normal mafia.

Note to self: don't talk about setup.

I realize it's different setup, but I don't see how this general principle is different here.

The idea is it's even riskier to lose a teammate because there are only 2 of you and you can die at night making it extremely important for partners not to bus eachother. Scum is much more likely to throw townreads their partner's way so as to increase the overall town view of them.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #395 on: June 30, 2020, 09:44:54 pm »

Zero points for Gryffindor. The house cup was always a joke anyways. Sorry.

Anyways, reason.

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye
Scum to chum lists are anti-town.

But more importantly:
I’m also very comfortable with both the ADK and scola lynches. I feel adk’s early posts felt like scum trying to misrepresent and push players in a scummy way, scola felt like newbie scum with as joth said pretty sheepish behavior.

Since then ADK has leveled off in scummy behavior and some the reactions both positively and negatively toward the scola wagon have enhanced my scum read (other townreads of mine feel similarly+Yuma’s strange partnery defense)
the points about ADK and scola. Like take a stand. Or just float along and go with it without actually landing somewhere.

OK. Break it down for me. What is "strange" "partnery" and "defense" about what I have said about scola?

vote: mcmc
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #396 on: June 30, 2020, 09:46:27 pm »

There's also another reason which is anti-town to say, but overall...

Okay why are we helping scum. Hey mcmc why did you tell scum a reason to not bus each other?

Just everyone stop talking about...dammit no I was the one that mentioned setup in the first place. I'm sorry.

PPE: Uh remember that post that Robz said you looked like scola's partner? Yeah, that.
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #397 on: June 30, 2020, 09:50:17 pm »

Also, readlists are pro-town. We want to help scum scumhunt, they're vigs.

Although I think that scumreading them is townie.
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #398 on: June 30, 2020, 09:54:29 pm »

Fifty first rule of mafia don't talk about not talking about ongoing games

Are you drunk again?

Scum are yuma, ADK, scola, and mcmc. What a quick, easy game!

Can I do an impression of you?

Yes.

I am rarely drunk. But not entirely sober, either.

My impression
Quote
Hi! I am town!Robz! Scum are whomever has the most votes and the guy being contrary! What a quick, easy game!

But mostly I am mildly annoyed by the weird partner thing going on and probably just shouldn't respond to it. But it is gallingly poor scum hunting. Or maybe you all aren't being serious? Sometimes it is hard to tell.
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #399 on: June 30, 2020, 09:57:39 pm »

Also, readlists are pro-town. We want to help scum scumhunt, they're vigs.

Although I think that scumreading them is townie.
I don't think scum will use those to scumhunt. I mean as scum I would rather trust my reads and my partners about that. But readlists are direct insights into what town is or isn't willing to do about EVERYONE. It gives a scum team with any initiative at all the opportunity to direct the exile in the direction they want.

Although to be completely clear I have no data backing this up and is my perception. At one point in my life I would have gone back and looked up games that used readlists. But my impression of that time was a lot of mafia wins.
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