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Author Topic: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 94410 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #350 on: June 30, 2020, 04:48:54 pm »

Starting a 3rd wagon is never anti-town if you find the existing ones dissatisfying.
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #351 on: June 30, 2020, 04:49:08 pm »

I don’t vote for you, or encourage other people to vote for you. I said this was how it seemed to me. Up until this point you had two rather terse one or two line posts.

I’m getting a bit tilted by this discussion so I’m going to stop now. If sharing my impressions is scummy, exile me. I’m over it.

Not to resurrect dead wagons, but this Didds post jumped out to me on re-read. I am just much much more likely to be tilted by a day 1 wagon as scum than as town. Is that just me? It really does feel like Didds reacted disproportionately to a small amount of early-game heat, and I think that's a scumtell for a particular kind of person -- a person who plays emotionally and wears her heart on her sleeve, like WCD.

If this were another player I might be accusing them of doing a fake AtE to get their wagon off them, but I don't really think that's Didds's style. Scum or town, I tend to assume her emotions are genuine.

Didds doesn't like wagons on them as either alignment.

You tilt more as an early wagon as town than scum, that's why you're good at being scum in the first place.
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #352 on: June 30, 2020, 04:54:00 pm »

I'll have to go back and reread and see why specifically I preferred Robz back then. I know there was something. But again, it was vague, just enough to convince me enough for the initial vote.

I'll try to do that sometime tonight.

Went back and reread - I also didn't like his post about wagons being protown - I'm really not sure why exactly, but that made me suspect him.

Rereading now, I do see that this is not really a good reason to stay on thus.

So I'll go ahead and

unvote

While I'm guessing this will garner more votes for me, you're looking in the wrong place. I just overcommitted early to Robz and that was a mistake (likely).

So about scola. There's some appeasement happening in his playstyle -- when he gets challenged on a vote he does this sort of sheepish backpedal thing. That feels scummy because it seems like he's just trying to get people to like him and trying to avoid doing anything that will make people scumread him.

The thing about picking Robz instead of someone else is NAA to me, just because in this game fake scumhunting is not a tell-- we should be expecting earnest scumhunting from scum as they look for the other team.
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #353 on: June 30, 2020, 05:00:19 pm »

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #354 on: June 30, 2020, 05:07:47 pm »

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye

I don’t think scum!joth fails to put me anywhere on this list. He even has a spot for people he forgot and fails to put me there which of scum is formulating this list they almost certainly check the op to see if they got everyone and throw “missed” reads there. This was made sloppily but with though which heavily suggests town.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #355 on: June 30, 2020, 05:09:34 pm »

Well, I know I've been wrong before...but joth's town.

He's not scared of anything. That readlist is pure parroting what has been said publicly.

PPE: And I also forgot you were in the game! Are you scum mcmc?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #356 on: June 30, 2020, 05:12:37 pm »

I’m also very comfortable with both the ADK and scola lynches. I feel adk’s early posts felt like scum trying to misrepresent and push players in a scummy way, scola felt like newbie scum with as joth said pretty sheepish behavior.

Since then ADK has leveled off in scummy behavior and some the reactions both positively and negatively toward the scola wagon have enhanced my scum read (other townreads of mine feel similarly+Yuma’s strange partnery defense)

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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #357 on: June 30, 2020, 05:14:13 pm »

Well, I know I've been wrong before...but joth's town.

He's not scared of anything. That readlist is pure parroting what has been said publicly.

PPE: And I also forgot you were in the game! Are you scum mcmc?

I think joths readlist is more summary than parroting but agree with the townread and no I am not scum.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #358 on: June 30, 2020, 05:19:18 pm »

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye

I don’t think scum!joth fails to put me anywhere on this list. He even has a spot for people he forgot and fails to put me there which of scum is formulating this list they almost certainly check the op to see if they got everyone and throw “missed” reads there. This was made sloppily but with though which heavily suggests town.

Oops! I'm scumreading you, so it's an especially galling omission. I knew I had more scumreads!
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #359 on: June 30, 2020, 05:20:37 pm »

In a normal game I would be like "oh no mcmc is a scumread but I also agree with his reads" but this is multiball so I feel fine about it.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #360 on: June 30, 2020, 05:24:11 pm »

In a normal game I would be like "oh no mcmc is a scumread but I also agree with his reads" but this is multiball so I feel fine about it.

What are you scumreading me for?
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #361 on: June 30, 2020, 06:07:16 pm »

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye

I don’t think scum!joth fails to put me anywhere on this list. He even has a spot for people he forgot and fails to put me there which of scum is formulating this list they almost certainly check the op to see if they got everyone and throw “missed” reads there. This was made sloppily but with though which heavily suggests town.

Man if I'm scum and I'm making a list like this I definitely deliberately leave someone off
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #362 on: June 30, 2020, 06:08:39 pm »

Oh, did joth steal your play?
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mail-mi

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #363 on: June 30, 2020, 06:25:30 pm »

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye

I don’t think scum!joth fails to put me anywhere on this list. He even has a spot for people he forgot and fails to put me there which of scum is formulating this list they almost certainly check the op to see if they got everyone and throw “missed” reads there. This was made sloppily but with though which heavily suggests town.

Man if I'm scum and I'm making a list like this I definitely deliberately leave someone off

Nah. As scum, I'd scan over my posts much more and make sure not to miss anyone.
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #364 on: June 30, 2020, 06:26:44 pm »

vote: mcmc
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yuma

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #365 on: June 30, 2020, 06:27:57 pm »

Also vote: joth

10 points to Gryfindor if anyone can tell me why for both. I'll share eventually when I can quote like a person that can use their phone.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #366 on: June 30, 2020, 06:34:00 pm »

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye

I don’t think scum!joth fails to put me anywhere on this list. He even has a spot for people he forgot and fails to put me there which of scum is formulating this list they almost certainly check the op to see if they got everyone and throw “missed” reads there. This was made sloppily but with though which heavily suggests town.

Man if I'm scum and I'm making a list like this I definitely deliberately leave someone off

Nah. As scum, I'd scan over my posts much more and make sure not to miss anyone.

Yes, and then I would deliberately leave someone off so I looked like forgetful town
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mail-mi

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #367 on: June 30, 2020, 06:34:31 pm »

Also vote: joth

10 points to Gryfindor if anyone can tell me why for both. I'll share eventually when I can quote like a person that can use their phone.

what if I'm in ravenclaw?

I could see myself voting for mcmc, but I'm reading townie on joth.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

scolapasta

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #368 on: June 30, 2020, 07:08:06 pm »

\So about scola. There's some appeasement happening in his playstyle -- when he gets challenged on a vote he does this sort of sheepish backpedal thing. That feels scummy because it seems like he's just trying to get people to like him and trying to avoid doing anything that will make people scumread him.

The thing about picking Robz instead of someone else is NAA to me, just because in this game fake scumhunting is not a tell-- we should be expecting earnest scumhunting from scum as they look for the other team.

I've voted once and unvoted. Not sure if 1 qualifies as a pattern.

Tell me the next number in the sequence: 6, ...

Your next statement about avoiding doing things to scumread me is true. I know that people are already considering me, so If I do something scummy, I am more likely get exiled. I would read not wanting to be exiled as scummy, just self preserving (which at least, on D1, is NAI)
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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #369 on: June 30, 2020, 07:15:10 pm »

Also vote: joth

10 points to Gryfindor if anyone can tell me why for both. I'll share eventually when I can quote like a person that can use their phone.

what if I'm in ravenclaw?

I could see myself voting for mcmc, but I'm reading townie on joth.

mcmc had a good opportunity to jump on my mislynch and didn't, so I'm starting to lean town on him
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #370 on: June 30, 2020, 07:15:41 pm »

My guesses are, in order of confidence: 6, 12, 8, 0, 1, 60, 600, 3.

What pattern do you expect people to catch on D1?

PPE: So it's best to not upset him?
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shraeye

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #371 on: June 30, 2020, 07:18:32 pm »

Generally if a wagon just seems to come together quickly and easily, and it's not because it's based on a compelling case, it means the wagon's on town. When a wagon seems to stall out and can't seem to gain traction, that's on scum. Although the latter effect is weakened by the fact that each partner only has one partner who knows who they are, the former is strengthened by the fact that scum can pile on without knowing it.

How do you know ADK's wagon won't be stalled? If I move to scola right now, which is tempting, suddenly the roles are swapped. Does ADK become scummy then?

I tend to weight things that are actually happening quite a bit higher than hypotheticals that MiX made up.

This response is pretty shitty, you know. I can't answer without going into AtE because you specifically call me out.

What I was trying to say is it hasn't been enough time to see if the ADK wagon picks up, so why assume they're town and that the other wagon's on scum?
It doesn't seem like a bad response to me at all
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shraeye

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #372 on: June 30, 2020, 07:24:33 pm »

Generally if a wagon just seems to come together quickly and easily, and it's not because it's based on a compelling case, it means the wagon's on town. When a wagon seems to stall out and can't seem to gain traction, that's on scum. Although the latter effect is weakened by the fact that each partner only has one partner who knows who they are, the former is strengthened by the fact that scum can pile on without knowing it.

How do you know ADK's wagon won't be stalled? If I move to scola right now, which is tempting, suddenly the roles are swapped. Does ADK become scummy then?

I tend to weight things that are actually happening quite a bit higher than hypotheticals that MiX made up.

This response is pretty shitty, you know. I can't answer without going into AtE because you specifically call me out.

What I was trying to say is it hasn't been enough time to see if the ADK wagon picks up, so why assume they're town and that the other wagon's on scum?

Sorry -- not trying to be shitty. I'm not assuming ADK is town or that scola's scum. I am hesitant to pile onto the wagon that feels like it's building too fast. I do want to get on a wagon because we're getting pretty far into the game.

On the merits of the evidence, ADK and scola are both perfectly cromulent exiles, but neither one strikes me as especially more scummy than the other. So instead I looked to the dynamics of the wagon to make my decision. Those dynamics, because they're an emergent factor of everyone's activity, can be more telling sometimes than the behavior of individuals who are (if scum) being careful to regulate that very behavior.
After looking up cromukent, I agree with this.  But looking at scolas exile crew and ADKs, I find people on ADK townier
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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #373 on: June 30, 2020, 08:17:08 pm »

This game is strange, because there are the two small teams, I feel like the patterns we are looking for are different.  I'm really not interested in the standard "A said something weird so they're scum".  ADK and scola both seem to be on the line for fake scumhunting, well nobody's incentivized to do that, so it's hardly a scumtepl here.  Neither exile feels wrong or awesome though.

I feel like our best bet is to pivot (PIVOT!!) to a totally different exile.  Rather than looking for who's defending who (which is gonna be so much more fruitful in standard 3-scum setup), we should look for who's playing it safest. 

Off the top of my head that's Galz, e, mail-mi.

Vote: Galz

I know some of that is not-aroundedness. But playing it safe isn't just a synonym for low post count.  Once I'm at a compy imma check my instincts
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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #374 on: June 30, 2020, 09:08:38 pm »

Ok. I'm done rereading. It wasn't super-enlightening. But I guess I'll make a scum to chum list for the sake of having a useful deliverable.

People I'm townreading:
Robz
mail-mi
MiX
Swowl

People I'm scumreading:
scola
ADK

People I'm conflicted about:
Didds
yuma

People I'm neutral on:
e

People I forgot were playing this game:
Galzria
shraeye

I don’t think scum!joth fails to put me anywhere on this list. He even has a spot for people he forgot and fails to put me there which of scum is formulating this list they almost certainly check the op to see if they got everyone and throw “missed” reads there. This was made sloppily but with though which heavily suggests town.

Oops! I'm scumreading you, so it's an especially galling omission. I knew I had more scumreads!

I basically agree with all these reads, I agree with mcmc that joth is townie for forgetting to include mcmc, and I agree with joth's additional comment that mcmc is scummy!
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