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[Swowl]

E! - you still hung up on MM? Is it just the doc claim bit?

[A Drowned Kernel]

also why did you pick shraeye? what did they do?

I couldn't remember anything he had said this game, which seemed telling

[jotheonah]

vote: scolapasta

Time to get on a wagon and the ADK one is growing too fast for my tastes.

[yuma]

vote: scolapasta

Time to get on a wagon and the ADK one is growing too fast for my tastes.

Wut?

Scummy scummy post

[jotheonah]

vote: scolapasta

Time to get on a wagon and the ADK one is growing too fast for my tastes.

Wut?

Scummy scummy post

How so?

[yuma]

vote: scolapasta

Time to get on a wagon and the ADK one is growing too fast for my tastes.

Wut?

Scummy scummy post

How so?

Picking between two wagons but providing a preference based on flimsy rationale. Why is quick growing bad here?

[jotheonah]

vote: scolapasta

Time to get on a wagon and the ADK one is growing too fast for my tastes.

Wut?

Scummy scummy post

How so?

Picking between two wagons but providing a preference based on flimsy rationale. Why is quick growing bad here?

Because nearly a third of the town is scum, and scum consists of two uncoordinated sets of two.

Normally, scum is careful not to pile on, but here they can pile on without knowing they're doing it.

[jotheonah]

Generally if a wagon just seems to come together quickly and easily, and it's not because it's based on a compelling case, it means the wagon's on town. When a wagon seems to stall out and can't seem to gain traction, that's on scum. Although the latter effect is weakened by the fact that each partner only has one partner who knows who they are, the former is strengthened by the fact that scum can pile on without knowing it.

[jotheonah]

Incidentally, I don't think scum are bussing their one partner today unless they're backed into it. 1, because they're vote is actually a useful weapon to knock out the rival team and a bus wastes it in that regard, and 2, because their team is too small to risk it.

[MiX]

Generally if a wagon just seems to come together quickly and easily, and it's not because it's based on a compelling case, it means the wagon's on town. When a wagon seems to stall out and can't seem to gain traction, that's on scum. Although the latter effect is weakened by the fact that each partner only has one partner who knows who they are, the former is strengthened by the fact that scum can pile on without knowing it.

How do you know ADK's wagon won't be stalled? If I move to scola right now, which is tempting, suddenly the roles are swapped. Does ADK become scummy then?

[jotheonah]

Generally if a wagon just seems to come together quickly and easily, and it's not because it's based on a compelling case, it means the wagon's on town. When a wagon seems to stall out and can't seem to gain traction, that's on scum. Although the latter effect is weakened by the fact that each partner only has one partner who knows who they are, the former is strengthened by the fact that scum can pile on without knowing it.

How do you know ADK's wagon won't be stalled? If I move to scola right now, which is tempting, suddenly the roles are swapped. Does ADK become scummy then?

I tend to weight things that are actually happening quite a bit higher than hypotheticals that MiX made up.

[MiX]

Generally if a wagon just seems to come together quickly and easily, and it's not because it's based on a compelling case, it means the wagon's on town. When a wagon seems to stall out and can't seem to gain traction, that's on scum. Although the latter effect is weakened by the fact that each partner only has one partner who knows who they are, the former is strengthened by the fact that scum can pile on without knowing it.

How do you know ADK's wagon won't be stalled? If I move to scola right now, which is tempting, suddenly the roles are swapped. Does ADK become scummy then?

I tend to weight things that are actually happening quite a bit higher than hypotheticals that MiX made up.

This response is pretty shitty, you know. I can't answer without going into AtE because you specifically call me out.

What I was trying to say is it hasn't been enough time to see if the ADK wagon picks up, so why assume they're town and that the other wagon's on scum?

[Robz888]

I'm also fine with scola. Vote: Scola

[jotheonah]

Generally if a wagon just seems to come together quickly and easily, and it's not because it's based on a compelling case, it means the wagon's on town. When a wagon seems to stall out and can't seem to gain traction, that's on scum. Although the latter effect is weakened by the fact that each partner only has one partner who knows who they are, the former is strengthened by the fact that scum can pile on without knowing it.

How do you know ADK's wagon won't be stalled? If I move to scola right now, which is tempting, suddenly the roles are swapped. Does ADK become scummy then?

I tend to weight things that are actually happening quite a bit higher than hypotheticals that MiX made up.

This response is pretty shitty, you know. I can't answer without going into AtE because you specifically call me out.

What I was trying to say is it hasn't been enough time to see if the ADK wagon picks up, so why assume they're town and that the other wagon's on scum?

Sorry -- not trying to be shitty. I'm not assuming ADK is town or that scola's scum. I am hesitant to pile onto the wagon that feels like it's building too fast. I do want to get on a wagon because we're getting pretty far into the game.

On the merits of the evidence, ADK and scola are both perfectly cromulent exiles, but neither one strikes me as especially more scummy than the other. So instead I looked to the dynamics of the wagon to make my decision. Those dynamics, because they're an emergent factor of everyone's activity, can be more telling sometimes than the behavior of individuals who are (if scum) being careful to regulate that very behavior.

[yuma]

I completely disagree with joth. But maybe that is more difference of opinion and not scummy now that I understand it. The post from him in isolation was though.

[mail-mi]

unvote WCD ain't happening.

I'll have to reread to see if I feel ADK or scola more, but I think I'm leaning toward ADK.

[jotheonah]

One problem with my approach is it's a variation on the "If X were scum, X's partner would be defending them. No one's defending X, therefore they must be town" argument.

And whenever one tries to make that argument, the inevitable response is "well, you're defending them by making that argument". So whoever points it out makes it cease to be true.

[MiX]

One problem with my approach is it's a variation on the "If X were scum, X's partner would be defending them. No one's defending X, therefore they must be town" argument.

And whenever one tries to make that argument, the inevitable response is "well, you're defending them by making that argument". So whoever points it out makes it cease to be true.

It's really not been enough time to see who defends ADK.

Besides that argument's pretty bad with small scumteams, as you're entirely depending on one person's reaction to a wagon.

[jotheonah]

So doctor should claim, yes? Creates an IC and some WIFOM cause if both scumteams kill them they don't actually die.

No, because we don't need an IC. We should definitely wait for claims at L-1, however.

I will also abstain from further setup talk.

MiX, what did you mean by "we don't need an IC"? We always need an IC.

[MiX]

(ongoing game)

Don't make me talk about setup.

[jotheonah]

Hi all.

vote: Robz888

I don't see nearly enough positive of Doctor revealing so early.

I actually do see scola's opening post as a bit scummy. I think this has all been covered but there's two things happening here.

1) Voting for someone because you disagree with their analysis of the setup is already kinda scummy just because it's easy and lazy.
2) It's weird that he picked Robz out of all the people who had come out in  favor of the claim plan, including mail-mi who suggested it in the first place.

But I'm not sure why 2 is scummy. If anything, it suggests scola was not reading the thread particularly closely, which is a town tell.

[jotheonah]

I had an interesting theory-crafting thought about this setup that it's not actually pro-town to discuss, but someone remind me when the game's over.

[jotheonah]

I don’t vote for you, or encourage other people to vote for you. I said this was how it seemed to me. Up until this point you had two rather terse one or two line posts.

I’m getting a bit tilted by this discussion so I’m going to stop now. If sharing my impressions is scummy, exile me. I’m over it.

Not to resurrect dead wagons, but this Didds post jumped out to me on re-read. I am just much much more likely to be tilted by a day 1 wagon as scum than as town. Is that just me? It really does feel like Didds reacted disproportionately to a small amount of early-game heat, and I think that's a scumtell for a particular kind of person -- a person who plays emotionally and wears her heart on her sleeve, like WCD.

If this were another player I might be accusing them of doing a fake AtE to get their wagon off them, but I don't really think that's Didds's style. Scum or town, I tend to assume her emotions are genuine.

[jotheonah]

Perhaps my message to ADK about the animals is because I care about the freaking animals and about ADK, and I want to be friends with y’all and this is how I do it.

I have no idea why this game is so duderific, but I’m definitely having a hard time navigating it.

This post, though, reads more like towny frustration.  Like Didds was frustrated not by the votes but by having her authenticity as a friendly person challenged. Which is just really on-brand. (And also I'm sorry Didds! Feel a little bad drudging this up and scrutinizing you this much. I love your friendly ways. Never change.)

[scolapasta]

I don’t vote for you, or encourage other people to vote for you. I said this was how it seemed to me. Up until this point you had two rather terse one or two line posts.

I’m getting a bit tilted by this discussion so I’m going to stop now. If sharing my impressions is scummy, exile me. I’m over it.

Not to resurrect dead wagons, but this Didds post jumped out to me on re-read. I am just much much more likely to be tilted by a day 1 wagon as scum than as town. Is that just me? It really does feel like Didds reacted disproportionately to a small amount of early-game heat, and I think that's a scumtell for a particular kind of person -- a person who plays emotionally and wears her heart on her sleeve, like WCD.

If this were another player I might be accusing them of doing a fake AtE to get their wagon off them, but I don't really think that's Didds's style. Scum or town, I tend to assume her emotions are genuine.

When I first read I was more focused on the first part and disagreeing with it. Not that I've reread my earlier, and can see where that's coming from, yeah, even so, the response seems disproportional.

Enough to start a didds wagon? Not sure. I can't i imagine I won't stay a wagon, starting a 3rd one seems antitown to me.