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Author Topic: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 94338 times)

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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2020, 01:02:03 pm »

So doctor should claim, yes? Creates an IC and some WIFOM cause if both scumteams kill them they don't actually die.

No, because we don't need an IC. We should definitely wait for claims at L-1, however.

I will also abstain from further setup talk.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2020, 01:51:44 pm »

vote: joth
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2020, 01:52:25 pm »

So doctor should claim, yes? Creates an IC and some WIFOM cause if both scumteams kill them they don't actually die.

I don't think this is a good idea. They can always claim at a later date, and we don't really gain anything from knowing who they are ahead of time
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2020, 02:04:13 pm »

So doctor should claim, yes? Creates an IC and some WIFOM cause if both scumteams kill them they don't actually die.

I don't think this is a good idea. They can always claim at a later date, and we don't really gain anything from knowing who they are ahead of time

Ooh but if we find scum they 100% claim doctor and then we have to wait for a counter claim and then the doctor is outed anyway. So there is that to take into consideration. The doctor should be pretty safe claiming since the two scum teams absolutely want least to double up their nk.

Also we should be very very careful weighing in on if we believe the doctor should or should not claim, the last thing we want is to sort of Poe who could and could not be the doctor based on their thoughts on if the doctor should or should not claim.

I think part of it certainly depends on who the doctor is, if they are more or less likely to be nk’d and if they are more or less likely to be around to counter claim and some other things that depend on the player. Setup wise there are definitely reasons for and against.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2020, 02:04:29 pm »

Either way unvote
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2020, 02:07:41 pm »

Either way unvote

What changed your mind?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2020, 03:07:32 pm »

Either way unvote

What changed your mind?

I think mail-mi’s post about the doctor claim was at best towny and at lest pro-town. He gave also gave an explanation for why he voted no exile which was not that he actually wanted to not exile.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2020, 03:07:50 pm »

Why the joth vote ADK?
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2020, 03:26:28 pm »

I'm usually anti-claim for D1, but I can see the logic in this case. The setup almost seems made for it.

The risk is that the scum teams find some way to signal to each other about which one of them is going to take the shot. But even that's not a terrible scenario because then we can find scum by going back and finding the signal.

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2020, 03:45:08 pm »

Either way unvote

What changed your mind?

I think mail-mi’s post about the doctor claim was at best towny and at lest pro-town. He gave also gave an explanation for why he voted no exile which was not that he actually wanted to not exile.

I can see it being towny, though I don't think it's pro-town. Why is an insincere vote towny?

Why the joth vote ADK?

It's always joth

I'm usually anti-claim for D1, but I can see the logic in this case. The setup almost seems made for it.

The risk is that the scum teams find some way to signal to each other about which one of them is going to take the shot. But even that's not a terrible scenario because then we can find scum by going back and finding the signal.

We don't lose anything by waiting for the doctor to claim when they feel it's necessary, and don't gain anything by it happening early
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2020, 04:11:34 pm »

One interesting thing about this setup is our odds of hitting scum off a random exile are better than normal. If the doctor claims and isn't counterclaimed then we have an IC, who could be trusted to make a random selection, which would then have a 1/3 chance of hitting scum.

1/3 isn't great odds, but it's better than normal and it would completely remove scum's ability to manipulate the town's kill.

But misexiles are also pretty punishing in this setup. If we hit town nights 1 and 2, and fail to prevent the nightkills, we lose at the start of Day 3. Well I guess we don't lose, but we're outnumbered by scum.
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2020, 04:12:24 pm »

I'm not really suggesting a random exile. I'm just spitballing and thoerycrafting while I wait for people to show up and make a scumslip.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2020, 04:12:37 pm »

 @adk because I’m too old for fancy quoting on mobile.

There is nothing about mail-mi’s vote that is insincere. He said let’s see what happens and explained he wanted to see if no exile was included in vote counts and how. I didn’t realize that’s what he we doing initially but upon clarification it makes sense and isn’t scummy.

I think bringing up the potential of should the doctor claim or not is certainly pro town, it’s not necessarily towny because scum could do it as well. Sure it could be nefariously brought up to draw out reactions to find the doctor while looking towny but it doesn’t make the discussion itself anything other than pro-town.

It’s always joth is however a terrible reason for a vote especially if you find mail-mi’s vote insincere.

In fact vote: ADK
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2020, 04:18:17 pm »

Hello, all! Well my suggestion to use "fire" for our new word really, really does not work given the flavor in this setup, eh? Oh well.

I'm mildly in favor of the Doctor claiming, though I would like to see more discussion of it. And if I were the Doctor, I would not be claiming right now, until there was more discussion of it. If we manage to E-1 (?) scum, we are probably going to end up with dueling Doctor claims anyway, as has been noted. In the last few games I played it seems like we were doing, er, exiles, at the very last minute, not leaving a lot of time to adjudicate claims, which would be especially bad here. Just having the Doctor claim eliminates this possibility, and we get an IC. And scum have to be a little afraid about taking the shot, since it could duplicate. I realize I'm not saying anything novel but I had these thoughts as well and thus I am going to voice them! Trying to be helpful town!Robz, turning over a new leaf, watch me go.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2020, 04:22:52 pm »

@adk because I’m too old for fancy quoting on mobile.

There is nothing about mail-mi’s vote that is insincere. He said let’s see what happens and explained he wanted to see if no exile was included in vote counts and how. I didn’t realize that’s what he we doing initially but upon clarification it makes sense and isn’t scummy.

I think bringing up the potential of should the doctor claim or not is certainly pro town, it’s not necessarily towny because scum could do it as well. Sure it could be nefariously brought up to draw out reactions to find the doctor while looking towny but it doesn’t make the discussion itself anything other than pro-town.

It’s always joth is however a terrible reason for a vote especially if you find mail-mi’s vote insincere.

In fact vote: ADK

Are you saying that mail-mi's suggestion is pro-town, or that starting the discussion at all is pro-town? (I would dispute both

I don't have a strong opinion about mail-mi's vote, what I'm concerned with is the sincerity of your vote and unvote, which to me looks like faked activity
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2020, 04:24:15 pm »

Either way I think we should be looking to get an exile early, or at least earlier than we were getting them in the games we were playing before my last absence.

Voting is good and wagons are pro-town.


Vote: Swowl
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jotheonah

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2020, 04:24:34 pm »

vote: mcmcsalot
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2020, 04:25:17 pm »

@adk because I’m too old for fancy quoting on mobile.

There is nothing about mail-mi’s vote that is insincere. He said let’s see what happens and explained he wanted to see if no exile was included in vote counts and how. I didn’t realize that’s what he we doing initially but upon clarification it makes sense and isn’t scummy.

I think bringing up the potential of should the doctor claim or not is certainly pro town, it’s not necessarily towny because scum could do it as well. Sure it could be nefariously brought up to draw out reactions to find the doctor while looking towny but it doesn’t make the discussion itself anything other than pro-town.

It’s always joth is however a terrible reason for a vote especially if you find mail-mi’s vote insincere.

In fact vote: ADK

Are you saying that mail-mi's suggestion is pro-town, or that starting the discussion at all is pro-town? (I would dispute both

I don't have a strong opinion about mail-mi's vote, what I'm concerned with is the sincerity of your vote and unvote, which to me looks like faked activity

I do think the "in fact" before the vote has the ring of false outrage.
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Robz888

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2020, 04:26:02 pm »

Other than that I guess I agree with mcmc, though.
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scolapasta

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2020, 04:42:10 pm »

Hi all.

vote: Robz888

I don't see nearly enough positive of Doctor revealing so early.
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2020, 04:43:16 pm »

Hi all.

vote: Robz888

I don't see nearly enough positive of Doctor revealing so early.

Vote: scolapasta, participating in RVS without saying anything about it.
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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2020, 04:46:08 pm »

Hi all.

vote: Robz888

I don't see nearly enough positive of Doctor revealing so early.

Vote: scolapasta, participating in RVS without saying anything about it.

Whew, everything is right in this world again, now that MiX has voted for me D1. Whew.

My vote wasn't strictly RVS.
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MiX

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2020, 04:47:09 pm »

Saying "whew" twice is a scumslip, haven't you heard?

What's the reasoning then?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2020, 04:52:03 pm »

@adk because I’m too old for fancy quoting on mobile.

There is nothing about mail-mi’s vote that is insincere. He said let’s see what happens and explained he wanted to see if no exile was included in vote counts and how. I didn’t realize that’s what he we doing initially but upon clarification it makes sense and isn’t scummy.

I think bringing up the potential of should the doctor claim or not is certainly pro town, it’s not necessarily towny because scum could do it as well. Sure it could be nefariously brought up to draw out reactions to find the doctor while looking towny but it doesn’t make the discussion itself anything other than pro-town.

It’s always joth is however a terrible reason for a vote especially if you find mail-mi’s vote insincere.

In fact vote: ADK

Are you saying that mail-mi's suggestion is pro-town, or that starting the discussion at all is pro-town? (I would dispute both

I am saying that at I think mail-mi’s suggestion is potentially pro-town and the suggestion which creates discussion is definitely pro-town.

I don't have a strong opinion about mail-mi's vote, what I'm concerned with is the sincerity of your vote and unvote, which to me looks like faked activity
You literally called mail-mi’s vote insincere...which I don’t think it was and I think you are painting mail-no in a scummy light by calling the vote insincere.

Either way unvote

What changed your mind?

I think mail-mi’s post about the doctor claim was at best towny and at lest pro-town. He gave also gave an explanation for why he voted no exile which was not that he actually wanted to not exile.

I can see it being towny, though I don't think it's pro-town. Why is an insincere vote towny?

This has to be in reference to mail-mi’s vote. Because this is after he explained he was seeing what voting no exile did and not seeing if voting no exile would get any traction.

Now you claim to not have a about mail-mi’s vote but it’s my vote and unvote that seems like faked activity. It sure makes my activity seem more fake when you blow off the fact that mail-mi votes something I thought was very bad then followed up with an explaination that made perfect sense.

You are just painting everyone you can as scummy for terrible reasons aren’t you.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Re: M128: Dragonborn Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2020, 04:53:26 pm »

Vote: robz

Was scum last time we played this setup.
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