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Author Topic: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Game over)  (Read 123476 times)

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Calamitas

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #475 on: May 28, 2020, 07:08:57 am »

That being said one last thing - What do you make of the fact that they never like... did anything? This is to say they went out of their way to try to assumedly set someone up (for being online or whatever), but then never used that set up. Not even as a last ditch effort.
I think that is probably getting too far into tbh... but since you seem to of looked at it to the extent I have looked at it - does that ping you as like just crazy weird?
I don't understand what you mean by that
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Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

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Calamitas

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #476 on: May 28, 2020, 07:11:07 am »

because we were partners in a long game
If would appreciate you summarizing his playing style as scum (vs. town if possible) :)
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Calamitas

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #477 on: May 28, 2020, 07:13:26 am »


I am not convinced at all by this analysis. This is just some talk about wagons instead of doing a real analysis on the scummy people. He says Dylan or Swowl is scum but neither analyses them nor votes for either.

I stand by my vote for now.

Perhaps you didn't read my caveat at the beginning of the analysis? Here, let me quote it for you:

This analysis will be based on simply the vote count and what I remember from yesterday, with more details (hopefully) to come.

And as you can see in the post, I analyzed both the people on wagon and off wagon. I thought that e ended up being the scummiest, followed by swowl and dylan. I found myself agreeing with dylan's points on e, and so I decided to vote there. I mean, what more do you want?
Didn't see the caveat, sorry
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

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Calamitas

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #478 on: May 28, 2020, 07:18:35 am »


The reasoning I based my thoughts around was exactly that I think he was expecting an off-wagon scumbuddy to come in and hammer, especially because he hinted at having been looking at who was watching the thread. Isn't that something that might be really quite plausible? I think Joseph is aware that scum likes coordinated quickhammers (albeit ignoring the fact that that's mostly at mylo etc!) and was trying to set something up so that one of his buddies could swoop in and hammer before any townies got cold feet. Yes, it's definitely sub-optimal play, as others have already pointed out, but it feels very much like the sort of scheme Joseph woudl try.
I mean, the theory sounds good but I am not sure you aren't overly cynical here. I mean, it would not be suboptimal but downright lunatic to pull something like that off with no need on D1.

But I mean, he refused to say who was online which has a pretty good reason in that theory...(in hindsight, we should have pressed him hard then and there)

@LaLight: Do you remember any game where Joseph did something on this order of craziness
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #479 on: May 28, 2020, 08:59:33 am »

because we were partners in a long game
If would appreciate you summarizing his playing style as scum (vs. town if possible) :)

Hmmmm..... I am not sure I have the insight to do that. Swan has rolled not-town a lot lately, but it’s mostly been third party. And as third-party, he generally has a town preference so he mostly just seems like town. If he has a partner, he is mindful of it. He doesn’t bus them or engage them much, but also doesn’t immediately follow them.

When he’s town, he will (once he has the time) do the work to figure ish out, but when he explains it, only some people will be able to follow it (I am one of them) because he will write it up quickly. (Reading out loud helps if it doesn’t make sense....I think he writes like he talks, although I’ve never actually talked to him. That’s just my teacher-experience about writing). He is at the end of the game in lots of games. He doesn’t get lynched because he’s not scummy. He tends not to get Nked because he’s not super towny, either. I don’t think I’ve been in a game where we lynched him.

Unless Galz is in the game, and then everything changes because they have a hard time fooling each other.
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yuma

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #480 on: May 28, 2020, 10:16:17 am »

I am back!
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #481 on: May 28, 2020, 10:30:21 am »

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #482 on: May 28, 2020, 12:38:44 pm »

I am back!

Cool

You should vote for Dylan
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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #483 on: May 28, 2020, 12:40:33 pm »

No, this case:

Let's compare the cases:


scum!e.case) e is basically absent D1 (4 posts prior to the day end burst of activity), has an RVS vote on mail-mi. When e does show up he doesn't like a Joseph lynch and creates an alternative wagon on WCD because he doesn't like the Joseph lynch. non-committal hammer on Joseph feels like a town-cred grab rather than actual townie vote.

scum!Dylan.case) Dylan is relatively active (25 posts on D1), and is consistently anti-Joseph lynch. RVS vote on LL (seems pretty townie) (and all votes do count, say what you want about RVS), creates a wagon on pasta (town), eventually unvotes and doesn't vote again until he jumps on the first pseudo-viable wagon (WCD)

Regarding the WCD wagon.  Scum does not typically create a random wagon at the end of the day on someone they know will likely not get lynched.  Rather, scum jumps on an alternative wagon that they think could be potentially viable when they get the chance.  Dylan had already unvoted pasta earlier in the day and may have felt that re-voting there would be too much of a flip-flop, so when WCD appeared as an option he jumped at the opportunity. Of course, Dylan does end up going back to scolapasta (because of this?). And I end up hammering scum.

E! ate their Wheaties this morning - don't think I have seen this many posts prior to late game from you like... ever.

Also, the third paragraph here is an interesting concept.
However, what I do not understand - is for this to make any sense, you have to like HARD town read didds right? Otherwise it is just kind of guess-spew.
But you just posted this list, in which WCD falls in the middle.

Current reads:

Scum tier
Dylan, mail-mi

Scummy(ish)
Calamitas

Merits a reread, I don't remember much about them
yuma, WCD, Swowl

Townie(ish)
Space, LaLight

Town
ADK, e

Separate concepts? Am I missing something here?

I don't understand why that would necessitate a WCD town read. It's more of a "if Dylan is scum, WCD is town" read.

And I would much prefer investigating the Dylan is scum part of the read first
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yuma

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #484 on: May 28, 2020, 01:43:55 pm »

Ok. Now I am back
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #485 on: May 28, 2020, 01:46:42 pm »

well, what do you think??
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yuma

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #486 on: May 28, 2020, 01:49:45 pm »

Those were some interesting end of day 1 things going on. Quick thoughts knowing the end result:

mail-mi is scummy all around...

space's frustration to the hammer before around seems equal parts scummy and authentic

I don't really see e doing what they did as scum, at least it isn't what I would do.
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yuma

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #487 on: May 28, 2020, 01:53:00 pm »

also, apparently e and I are the same person

These are all me:

Also, fantastic Lynch everyone. I take zero credit for the actual Lynch, but will gladly assume my position as pseudo-IC with the hammer

So yeah, ADK is totally IC here.

Interesting why scum didn't kill them, I guess just WIFOM

if anyone's getting to be a pseudo-IC, it should be ADK with the uncontested claimed UB status. Though I need to go back and check to what extent the scumteam could know if we're in a game situation where there isn't a UB at all


All games include a Universal Back-Up.

From the setup

Yes, but also from the setup, games with a single V roll, or a single W roll that converst to a V, turn our guaranteed UB into a restless spirit. Except if we have a single V and also a single W roll that converts to a V, in which case we get both a UB and a RS. It makes me happy that faust's setup text covers that odd little corner case.

Anyway, the actual chance of not having a UB in the game is higher than you might think.

Maybe I should actually read the setup.

At least until the Dylan stuff...
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yuma

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #488 on: May 28, 2020, 01:55:32 pm »

vote: joseph just so we actually get a lynch.
I am confused by this. I just re-read yuma, they (he?she?)
1) pointed out Joseph was scummy
2) forgot to vote for him
3) then said it should gain traction
4) moved (though not just out of not-traction if I see it correctly)
5)Voted Joseph "so we actually get a lynch"
Yuma scumread Joseph hard most of the day, this statement sounds too weak for me
I mean, I'll take credit for scumreading him hard, but I think you are overstating my read on him. Toward the end there I wasn't really reading him as scummy anymore, but was worth making sure we had a lynch. I thought he would probably flip town though.
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yuma

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #489 on: May 28, 2020, 01:57:02 pm »

ADK, Didds, Yuma and LL were the main people voting Joseph in the first half of D1, along with scola.

Calamitas L-2'd him at #304. Yuma moved off to Didds (e's brand new wagon) at #316, taking the wagon down to L-3, but came back to make it L-1 after Scola had re-joined.

If anyone looks scummy purely based on wagon motion in all that, it's Yuma.

rats
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #490 on: May 28, 2020, 02:38:57 pm »

ADK, what are you thinking about Dylan and mail-mi?
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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #491 on: May 28, 2020, 03:02:13 pm »


The reasoning I based my thoughts around was exactly that I think he was expecting an off-wagon scumbuddy to come in and hammer, especially because he hinted at having been looking at who was watching the thread. Isn't that something that might be really quite plausible? I think Joseph is aware that scum likes coordinated quickhammers (albeit ignoring the fact that that's mostly at mylo etc!) and was trying to set something up so that one of his buddies could swoop in and hammer before any townies got cold feet. Yes, it's definitely sub-optimal play, as others have already pointed out, but it feels very much like the sort of scheme Joseph woudl try.
I mean, the theory sounds good but I am not sure you aren't overly cynical here. I mean, it would not be suboptimal but downright lunatic to pull something like that off with no need on D1.

But I mean, he refused to say who was online which has a pretty good reason in that theory...(in hindsight, we should have pressed him hard then and there)

@LaLight: Do you remember any game where Joseph did something on this order of craziness

not really
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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #492 on: May 28, 2020, 04:06:53 pm »

because we were partners in a long game
If would appreciate you summarizing his playing style as scum (vs. town if possible) :)

Hmmmm..... I am not sure I have the insight to do that. Swan has rolled not-town a lot lately, but it’s mostly been third party. And as third-party, he generally has a town preference so he mostly just seems like town. If he has a partner, he is mindful of it. He doesn’t bus them or engage them much, but also doesn’t immediately follow them.

When he’s town, he will (once he has the time) do the work to figure ish out, but when he explains it, only some people will be able to follow it (I am one of them) because he will write it up quickly. (Reading out loud helps if it doesn’t make sense....I think he writes like he talks, although I’ve never actually talked to him. That’s just my teacher-experience about writing). He is at the end of the game in lots of games. He doesn’t get lynched because he’s not scummy. He tends not to get Nked because he’s not super towny, either. I don’t think I’ve been in a game where we lynched him.

Unless Galz is in the game, and then everything changes because they have a hard time fooling each other.

I love your walk through to comprehending my babbling haha
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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #493 on: May 28, 2020, 04:21:09 pm »

That being said one last thing - What do you make of the fact that they never like... did anything? This is to say they went out of their way to try to assumedly set someone up (for being online or whatever), but then never used that set up. Not even as a last ditch effort.
I think that is probably getting too far into tbh... but since you seem to of looked at it to the extent I have looked at it - does that ping you as like just crazy weird?
I don't understand what you mean by that

Allow me to elaborate!

1. Skum!Jo (making it a thing like ScarJo, just go with it) jumps to a wagon putting it at L-1.
2. My opinion is they were looking for a mistake hammer from Town, Space thinks the other end, but ultimately it does not matter... because it didn't happen.
3. K. So then he jumps off the wagon and starts the whole nonsense ish of "player was online that did not hammer".

So 1-3 is the set up. It is a set up, almost unarguably now that we have both their flips, that SkumJo intended to try to paint someone red for not hammering (or possibly paint Scola red at least for not being hammered).

I am not saying that that concept should make a whole hell of a lot of sense...

What I AM saying is... that pretty much has to be the reason. It is such a fishy thing to cling to (person online vs not online) right after they did such a fish thing... the play was to use it... but he never actually accused anyone of it - he just said "someone was online that didn't hammer".


As mentioned - not a case for anything - just a rabbit hole. But it is interesting imo. Hope that helps.

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mail-mi

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #494 on: May 28, 2020, 04:26:02 pm »

No, this case:

Let's compare the cases:


scum!e.case) e is basically absent D1 (4 posts prior to the day end burst of activity), has an RVS vote on mail-mi. When e does show up he doesn't like a Joseph lynch and creates an alternative wagon on WCD because he doesn't like the Joseph lynch. non-committal hammer on Joseph feels like a town-cred grab rather than actual townie vote.

scum!Dylan.case) Dylan is relatively active (25 posts on D1), and is consistently anti-Joseph lynch. RVS vote on LL (seems pretty townie) (and all votes do count, say what you want about RVS), creates a wagon on pasta (town), eventually unvotes and doesn't vote again until he jumps on the first pseudo-viable wagon (WCD)

Regarding the WCD wagon.  Scum does not typically create a random wagon at the end of the day on someone they know will likely not get lynched.  Rather, scum jumps on an alternative wagon that they think could be potentially viable when they get the chance.  Dylan had already unvoted pasta earlier in the day and may have felt that re-voting there would be too much of a flip-flop, so when WCD appeared as an option he jumped at the opportunity. Of course, Dylan does end up going back to scolapasta (because of this?). And I end up hammering scum.

This Dylan case. RVS votes do matter, but eh not enough to sway one way or the other. I can also feel for Dylan because I too was townreading Joseph. So I think the case isn't bad, and he's probably my second or third preferred lynch, but also not the strongest case in the world.
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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #495 on: May 28, 2020, 04:27:41 pm »

No, this case:

Let's compare the cases:


scum!e.case) e is basically absent D1 (4 posts prior to the day end burst of activity), has an RVS vote on mail-mi. When e does show up he doesn't like a Joseph lynch and creates an alternative wagon on WCD because he doesn't like the Joseph lynch. non-committal hammer on Joseph feels like a town-cred grab rather than actual townie vote.

scum!Dylan.case) Dylan is relatively active (25 posts on D1), and is consistently anti-Joseph lynch. RVS vote on LL (seems pretty townie) (and all votes do count, say what you want about RVS), creates a wagon on pasta (town), eventually unvotes and doesn't vote again until he jumps on the first pseudo-viable wagon (WCD)

Regarding the WCD wagon.  Scum does not typically create a random wagon at the end of the day on someone they know will likely not get lynched.  Rather, scum jumps on an alternative wagon that they think could be potentially viable when they get the chance.  Dylan had already unvoted pasta earlier in the day and may have felt that re-voting there would be too much of a flip-flop, so when WCD appeared as an option he jumped at the opportunity. Of course, Dylan does end up going back to scolapasta (because of this?). And I end up hammering scum.

E! ate their Wheaties this morning - don't think I have seen this many posts prior to late game from you like... ever.

Which is also part of the reason that makes me think he's scum, because his team is now in a losing position and so he has to work harder. (Not the strongest point against him because he could also be encouraged town at seeing a scum lynch, but still a point to make).
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #496 on: May 28, 2020, 04:29:40 pm »

Regarding Joseph's L-1 shenanigans, I don't think there's much we can get out of it. Both Joseph and scola have flipped, Joseph never told us who was online, and it was just Joseph shenanigans (fun word to say and type).
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #497 on: May 28, 2020, 04:30:33 pm »


I am not convinced at all by this analysis. This is just some talk about wagons instead of doing a real analysis on the scummy people. He says Dylan or Swowl is scum but neither analyses them nor votes for either.

I stand by my vote for now.

Perhaps you didn't read my caveat at the beginning of the analysis? Here, let me quote it for you:

This analysis will be based on simply the vote count and what I remember from yesterday, with more details (hopefully) to come.

And as you can see in the post, I analyzed both the people on wagon and off wagon. I thought that e ended up being the scummiest, followed by swowl and dylan. I found myself agreeing with dylan's points on e, and so I decided to vote there. I mean, what more do you want?
Didn't see the caveat, sorry

'Sall good, I intend to do a reread of e, yuma, Dylan, and Swowl for more in-depth stuff someday, but today is not that day (RL day). I've got work and a date tonight to keep me busy.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #498 on: May 28, 2020, 04:31:39 pm »

also, apparently e and I are the same person

you're both scum?
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: M127: Customer Service Hotline Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #499 on: May 28, 2020, 04:31:59 pm »

ADK, Didds, Yuma and LL were the main people voting Joseph in the first half of D1, along with scola.

Calamitas L-2'd him at #304. Yuma moved off to Didds (e's brand new wagon) at #316, taking the wagon down to L-3, but came back to make it L-1 after Scola had re-joined.

If anyone looks scummy purely based on wagon motion in all that, it's Yuma.

rats

Got any other comments than that?
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon
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