Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Combo: Stockpile/Gamble  (Read 3984 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rhodos

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
  • Shuffle iT Username: Card Master
  • Respect: +86
    • View Profile
Combo: Stockpile/Gamble
« on: April 18, 2020, 03:19:53 pm »
+15

Stockpile/Gamble

This is a combo, that, unlike other combos, you will trigger only once in a game. And only one player can pull it off.
So the keys here are: First that Gambling a Stockpile will net you $1 and a buy. And second, when you play a Stockpile it will not stay in the game, but go to your Exile Mat, from where you can get it back to your deck by gaining another copy of it and thus potentially using it multiple times during one turn.

 


So how does it work?
You first need to do some setup. You need to have drawn your entire deck, have at best 2 or 3 Stockpiles in Exile and have at least $5 and 2 buys. So say you got there and there are still like 5 Stockpiles in the Supply. Now you do the following:
You buy a Stockpile and discard your Stockpiles from Exile (say there were 2 of them). Now you have $2 money left and 3 Stockpiles in your discard pile. Then you buy Gamble and it will let you play a Stockpile, since there is nothing else left in your deck. This will leave you with $1 and 1 buy more then before buying the Gamble. You do this 2 more times and end up with $5 and 4 buys. Now you can buy another Stockpile and exile 3, to have 4 in your discard. If you start over again Gambling all of these, you will have $6 and 8 buys. If you keep repeating this until there is no Stockpile left in the Supply, you will have $15 and 26 buys (I hope, I got those numbers right).

This gives you a really good advantage in tempo, as you can put a lot of good stuff into your deck. Also, there might be the possibility of a 3-pile here, since Stockpiles are empty and you are already some turns into the game.
However you can even improve this by leaving Stockpiles after you bought the last one. For example one could Gamble once to ensure, the Stockpiles are on top of the deck. This will give you $9 this turn and on the next one 5 Stockpiles, in other words $15 and 5 buys, and even another one in the turn after that. Note that any extra money you had on top of the $5 you needed, will also be on top of what you end up with. If you were about equal with your opponent before that turn, you should have a big lead now and this should almost always guarantee you a win.

With Cost Reduction:
This combo will get an incredible boost with cost reduction (Bridge, Highway, Inventor, Canal). Even reducing the costs of cards by one (note that this will not affect the cost of Gamble) will almost certainly give you a win, the turn you pull off this combo. First, it makes Stockpiles cheaper, which in the above example, will give you an extra $5. But more important, it reduces the cost of the cards you are going to buy in the end. If points are about equal, which will be most likely at that point of the game, you can buy 8 Estates, 10 Curses and 1 Province, which will cost you $15. This will net you 4 VP and end the game, as Stockpiles, Estates and Curses are empty. In most cases you also be able to buy an additional Duchy. And often enough you won‘t need to touch Curses, because there is like a former $2 card, that costs $1 now, that you can empty or any other pile that has few cards left.

With Donate:
It is no suprise that this combo works well with Donate, but it so fast, that I want to mention it here. Take the following scenario, which is quite likely:
You open 3/4 and buy two Stockpiles. Your opponent does the same. Then turn 3 you have at least 3 Coppers and at most 1 Estate in hand, i.e. 1 Stockpile, 3 Coppers and 1 Estate. You buy Donate, trash everything but 1 Stockpile and 4 Coppers, and have 2 debt left over. Your opponent also trashes with Donate, which of course includes trashing the Estates. Now you can win turn 4! You will have 1 Stockpile and 4 Coppers in hand, which give you $7 and 2 buys. You pay the 2 debt and have $5 and 2 buys, to work with. And that is exactly what you need for Gamble/Stockpile. There are 6 Stockpiles left in the Supply and, when you are done with all of them, you have $21 and more than 30 buys (hopefully I did the maths right). This gives you the opportunity to buy 8 Estates, 10 Curses and 1 Duchy, ending the game on turn 4 with 1VP, while your opponent has 0VP.
This of course is only an example, to underline the potential of Gamble/Stockpile.

Counters:
Of course the easiest way to counter it is by buying enough Stockpiles, to take away its potential. Since each additional Stockpile makes the combo a lot better and it is quite weak with too few Stockpiles. This alone should be enough, to make it weak enough in most games, where both players know about.
Then also hurting your opponents ability to draw his deck is also a way to prevent your opponent to execute a Gamble/Stockpile turn. So junking attacks counter it. And also discard attacks will make it harder, while not impossible.
Unfortunatly, even if your opponent does not know about Gamble/Stockpile, he will likely use any of these counters anyway, because they are good on their own. So when Gamble and Stockpile are in the kingdom, the chances that you can pull it off is small. But nevertheless, watch out for it, as it can win the game for you (or your opponent).


This is my first article, so I am grateful for any feedback.
Logged

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1345
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Stockpile/Gamble
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2020, 03:44:51 pm »
+2

Hah! That turn-4 game-end with stockpile, gamble, and donate is hilarious.

Interesting way of setting up a three-pile ending. Set up an deck-drawing engine, then buy/gain two stockpiles - then next turn you're threatening a three-pile no matter how far away you were from one before. Game probably ends next turn, I don't think you would usually want to use an "About $20 and $20 buys" turn to set up a "$9, single-province buy" next turn, you'd want to end the game immediately.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 03:48:22 pm by ftl »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Combo: Stockpile/Gamble
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2020, 07:31:38 pm »
+4

One thing that's potentially worth pointing out is that you shouldn't skip buying Stockpile in the early/mid game just because you're hoping to pull this off later.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Rhodos

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
  • Shuffle iT Username: Card Master
  • Respect: +86
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Stockpile/Gamble
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2020, 07:40:25 am »
0

One thing that's potentially worth pointing out is that you shouldn't skip buying Stockpile in the early/mid game just because you're hoping to pull this off later.

That's true. I mostly described how the combo itself works, not that much on how to play, when it is on the board. Which will depend on the Kingdom and what your opponent does, of course. I also have to admit I am not a great expert on Stockpile itself.

And well, you want to have 2 or 3 Stockpiles in Exile, when you go for it. And more are fine as well, so you don't hurt that combo too much, if you buy them beforehand.
Logged

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2210
  • Respect: +2854
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Stockpile/Gamble
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2020, 05:05:21 pm »
+4

Tried this a bit. It's the real deal, at least against the bot. I'm less sure how big it'll be against humans that contest Stockpiles, but it does enable 3-piles out of nowhere.

Some notes:
  • This needs fairly good trashing, since you need to draw your deck for this to work well. Gamble can help here, since you can Gamble into your trashers if you track things well.
  • The power grows quadratically: when you're set up with only Stockpiles in your discard pile, Gamble reads "+$1, +1 buy for every Stockpile in your deck". Each Stockpile becomes "-$3, bring back all your Stockpiles". If the pile isn't contested, you can reach about $30 pretty easily, because your first Stockpile Gambles into $4 - $3, the 2nd into $5 - $3, the 3rd into $6 - $3, and so on, up to $10 - $3 for the last Stockpile.
  • More importantly, the number of buys also grows quadratically. Since the stockpile will naturally be empty, if uncontested you'll have about $30 and 30 buys, which is easily enough to empty Estates and Curses, plus a Province or Duchy to make up the Curse VP.
  • When setting up, it is better to only take Stockpiles off the mat if you need them to afford more trashers. Taking them off too often slows down your trashing. You want to start with something like 2 Copper + Stockpile in hand, several Stockpiles in Exile on the final turn.
  • You do not literally need an empty discard pile to get started, but your extra cards need to be Treasures or Actions that don't draw any cards. Any junk card denies $2 every loop. Drawing any Stockpile from an Action denies $1 every loop. You're going to be looping 5-7 times, you're losing a lot of money if you have to Gamble past junk every cycle. However, clearing out 1-2 Coppers through Gamble before going off is entirely okay.
  • If you are contested, this doesn't work very well anymore. The first Stockpile your opponent buys denies you $7 on the final turn. The second one denies $6, and so on. Losing Stockpiles in the pile hurts a lot. But the math is such that I think you still have to watch out. If they contest 2 Stockpiles, you can still 3-pile on Estates and Curses and have money leftover for a Duchy. If they contest 3 Stockpiles, you can no longer 3-pile this way, but you can still empty the Stockpiles.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 06:34:17 pm by Titandrake »
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Rhodos

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
  • Shuffle iT Username: Card Master
  • Respect: +86
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Stockpile/Gamble
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2020, 08:08:32 am »
0

Thanks a lot for your comments and trying it out!

  • Yes, it does grow quadratically. I said that implicitly by saying that each additional Stockpile makes it a lot better. But stating it explicitly is good idea.
  • I also wanted to mention that, indeed, your discard pile and/or deck does not need to be completely empty. So yeah, Treasures and Action cards, that procide $2 or more, are fine you just Gamble through them. If they provide less, you loose money, but at least they are out off the way. Curses, Victory- and Night cards are really a pain, as you loose $2 by Gambling them every loop. Ruins (other than Ruined Library) are okay, the stay in play when you Gamble them. And yes Actions that draw, draw the Stockpiles to your hand, where you can't use them anymore. So they really annoying too. Though if you have the spare money, you can clear them with Gamble first, as they cannot hit your Stockpiles this way.
    This is not in the article, since I did not want it to be too long. Though it is relevant sometimes, so I might add it.

Thank you one more time, you got a lot of good points there!
Logged

estwdjhn

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +26
    • View Profile
Re: Combo: Stockpile/Gamble
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2020, 08:52:05 am »
+3

I tried this against the Bot, other cards chosen at random, and got a board with Goons, Advisors and no trashing. It took a few turns to get things rolling, but ended up buying and gambling the whole goons pile into play. Final scores were - Ratty 21, me 553, having emplied estates and then bought 42 copper...
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.046 seconds with 20 queries.