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[faust]

It's a new thread! I'm going to randomize teams. I'd also suggest opening it up for ~24 hours in case others want to join.

New teams are going to be:

faust & bitwise & DatSwan // ghostofmars & scolapasta & jotheonah

For easy reference, here is the word list generator.

[jotheonah]

can I join?

[faust]

Sure. Unless we get another player we'll have uneven teams though. I'm fine with that, not sure how you guys feel?

[bitwise]

I don't mind. Letting in everyone who wants to play is good, and having more people on a team is not clearly an advantage to me anyway.

[Swowl]

I am in. this looks fun. or not whatever works with the flow, but if you need a +1 I'm in.

[scolapasta]

Yay! These were my two recruits.

[faust]

Gonna roll for how to add them to the existing teams.

Result is... DatSwan goes to bitwise/me, joth goes to ghost/scola

[faust]

I've got our QT sent out!

[Swowl]

who are the first code masters or whatever?

[Swowl]

I just re read the rando player order bit - it is me first on our team correct? is there a team that goes first? or do we just post?

[faust]

I just re read the rando player order bit - it is me first on our team correct? is there a team that goes first? or do we just post?

Teams play simultaneously. The rounds play out in the following order:

1) Cluegivers generate a code using the same site, make clues and post them to the game thread.
2) Guessers guess their own teams code. Starting round 2, teams simultaneously discuss about the opponent's clue and try to guess their code.
3a) If you guess the clue of your own team, you post it in the team quicktopic.
3b) If you guess the clue of the opposing team, you post it in spoilers in the game thread.
4) Once all guesses are ready, the cluegivers state their partner's guess, reveal the correct codes and tokens are assigned.
5) Start new round with switched cluegivers.

[Swowl]

k. so I appear to be up yeah?
So I go to site. Generate new code. Take that sequence of 3 numbers, and publicly post the three word clue in this thread yes?

[jotheonah]

Ghost/scola send me a QT link plz!

[faust]

k. so I appear to be up yeah?
So I go to site. Generate new code. Take that sequence of 3 numbers, and publicly post the three word clue in this thread yes?

Correct

[scolapasta]

Sent. Am I still first for my team or do we need to randomize?

[Swowl]

OK then, clue for my team is...

CHECKOUT - BEACH - FIRE

[faust]

Sent. Am I still first for my team or do we need to randomize?

That's really up to you guys.

[scolapasta]

OK, I'll start. Give me until tonight so I can think some outside of work and post a clue.

[jotheonah]

you guys may have to bear with me as I figure out how this works. I usually can't wrap my head around new games until I'm actually playing them.

What happens next?

[scolapasta]

Short answer:

Wait until I post a clue here, then discuss your guess in QT with ghost

Longer Answer:

I'll post a clue here publicly. You will then discuss your guess with ghost on the QT. Once ready we'll post the guess here and confirm correct or not.

The other team is doing the same.

That is Round 1.

In Rounds 2+, we also try to intercept the other teams clues but making a guess.

[jotheonah]

Thanks scola, that was well-articulated.

So basically we're each playing our own minigame of codenames except there's only 4 words and you can only do one at a time, and the two teams can't see each other's boards at all but have to try to deduce them.

[scolapasta]

Right, and since we will have to give multiple clues per word, we can't be too specific (unlike in codenames when you you want your 1 clues to be super specific) because that would make it easier for the other team to deduce.

The part I left out was scoring, basically there are two ways to mess up: your team gets it wrong (miscommunication) or the other team gets yours right (intercept). You are allowed one of each; if you get two of either, game over. With lots of tie breaking aspects, if both team lose in the same turn, or if not one loses after 8 rounds.

[scolapasta]

SKYDIVE - TINY - BLUE

[Swowl]

My team correctly guessed 4-1-2.

[scolapasta]

Our team correctly guessed 3-2-4.

On to round two.

[jotheonah]

How do we know who goes next?

[faust]

How do we know who goes next?

You should determine some kind of order within your team.

[jotheonah]

SMART - BRAVE - STRONG

[bitwise]

Brush - Leaves - Duck

[Swowl]

how does one receive an interception token?

[Galzria]

Alright. I think if there’s room/demand, I would like to join in on the next game. Pretty sure I have the hang of it.

[Swowl]

your cost of entry is to explain to me how the tokens work

[bitwise]

My attempt at explaining the rules:

There are up to 8 rounds in the game. In each round, both teams do the following:

- One player from the team generates a random code with three different numbers from 1 to 4, and makes a clue to clue those three numbers
- The other team guesses the three number code (except in round 1)
- The same team's other members, besides the cluegiver, guess the three number code.
- Reveal the code and see who was right.

It is bad for your team if the other team guesses your code correctly, or if your team fails to guess their own code correctly. If the other team guesses your code correctly, they take an interception token. Also, if your team fails to guess its own code, then you take a miscommunication token.

At the end of the round: if your opponents have two interception tokens, you lose. If you have two miscommunication tokens, you lose. If both teams would lose at the same time, then there are some tiebreaking rules instead. Also, if at the end of 8 rounds, neither team has lost, there are some tiebreaking rules.

[Galzria]

Pretty much what I got, so yeah, I *think* I’m good.

[scolapasta]

And for those who are new, once you've decided on guesses in the QT, the protocol is to first post your guess of the other team, with spoiler tags.

Then once the other team has posted their guess of yours, you can post your teams guess of your own. It then gets confirmed or denied (or in same post, if poster was clue giver).

[faust]

Our guess for your clue is 1-3-2.

[jotheonah]

Our guess for your clue is  3-4-1.

Your guess is incorrect. The code was 1-3-4, which my team guessed correctly.

[bitwise]

Our code was 4-2-1, so both guesses are incorrect and we take a miscommunication token. Sorry team!

[ghostofmars]

What did your team guess?

[bitwise]

Oops, they guessed 4-1-3 for our clue.

[faust]

Summary

team ghostofmars/jotheonah/scolapasta
0 Interception tokens
0 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Skydive - Tiny - Blue (code: 3-2-4, guess: 3-2-4, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Smart - Brave - Strong (code: 1-3-4, guess: 1-3-4, interception: 1-3-2)
Clues for 1 Smart
Clues for 2 Tiny
Clues for 3 Skydive, Brave
Clues for 4 Blue, Strong

team bitwise/DatSwan/faust
0 Interception tokens
1 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Checkout - Beach - Fire (code: 4-1-2, guess: 4-1-2, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Brush - Leaves - Duck (code: 4-2-1, guess: 4-1-3, interception: 3-4-1)
Clues for 1 Beach, Duck
Clues for 2 Fire, Leaves
Clues for 3
Clues for 4 Checkout, Brush

[faust]

Fame - Mod - Die

[ghostofmars]

Summary

team ghostofmars/jotheonah/scolapasta
0 Interception tokens
0 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Skydive - Tiny - Blue (code: 3-2-4, guess: 3-2-4, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Smart - Brave - Strong (code: 1-3-4, guess: 1-3-4, interception: 1-3-2)
Clues for 1 Smart
Clues for 2 Tiny
Clues for 3 Skydive, Brave
Clues for 4 Blue, Strong

team bitwise/DatSwan/faust
0 Interception tokens
1 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Checkout - Beach - Fire (code: 4-1-2, guess: 4-1-2, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Brush - Leaves - Duck (code: 4-2-1, guess: 4-1-3, interception: 3-4-1)
Clues for 1 Beach, Duck
Clues for 2 Checkout, Brush
Clues for 3
Clues for 4 Fire, Leaves

I think you swapped brush and leaves

[faust]

I think you swapped brush and leaves

Yeah, swapped 2 and 4 completely. Now fixed.

[ghostofmars]

Apple - Car - Crow

[ghostofmars]

We guess 3 - 2 - 4 for your clue.

[faust]

We guess 1 -3 - 2 for your clue.

My team guesses 1 - 2 - 3, which is correct.

[ghostofmars]

My team guesses 1 - 4 - 3, which is correct.

[ghostofmars]

Summary

team ghostofmars/jotheonah/scolapasta
0 Interception tokens
0 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Skydive - Tiny - Blue (code: 3-2-4, guess: 3-2-4, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Smart - Brave - Strong (code: 1-3-4, guess: 1-3-4, interception: 1-3-2)
Round 3 Apple - Car - Crow (code: 1-4-3, guess: 1-4-3, interception: 1-3-2)
Clues for 1 Smart, Apple
Clues for 2 Tiny
Clues for 3 Skydive, Brave, Crow
Clues for 4 Blue, Strong, Car

team bitwise/DatSwan/faust
0 Interception tokens
1 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Checkout - Beach - Fire (code: 4-1-2, guess: 4-1-2, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Brush - Leaves - Duck (code: 4-2-1, guess: 4-1-3, interception: 3-4-1)
Round 3 Fame - Mod - Die (code: 1-2-3, guess: 1-2-3, interception: 3-2-4)
Clues for 1 Beach, Duck, Fame
Clues for 2 Fire, Leaves, Mod
Clues for 3 Die
Clues for 4 Checkout, Brush

[Swowl]

OK I am up again for our team.
Clues are:

DESK - TUSK - LINE

[scolapasta]

Drum - Fossil - Target

[ghostofmars]

Our guess for your clue is 4 - 3 - 2

[jotheonah]

bump! what's up other team?

[Swowl]

Sorry!

My teams guess for your team's word is 4 - 3 - 1

My team's guess for my our own word was 4 - 3 - 1   Which is correct!

[scolapasta]

My team's guess for my clue was 4-2-1 and is correct.

[faust]

Summary

team ghostofmars/jotheonah/scolapasta
0 Interception tokens
0 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Skydive - Tiny - Blue (code: 3-2-4, guess: 3-2-4, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Smart - Brave - Strong (code: 1-3-4, guess: 1-3-4, interception: 1-3-2)
Round 3 Apple - Car - Crow (code: 1-4-3, guess: 1-4-3, interception: 1-3-2)
Round 4 Drum - Fossil - Target (code: 4-2-1, guess: 4-2-1, interception: 4-3-1)
Clues for 1 Smart, Apple, Target
Clues for 2 Tiny, Fossil
Clues for 3 Skydive, Brave, Crow
Clues for 4 Blue, Strong, Car, Drum

team bitwise/DatSwan/faust
0 Interception tokens
1 Miscommunication tokens
Round 1 Checkout - Beach - Fire (code: 4-1-2, guess: 4-1-2, interception: N/A)
Round 2 Brush - Leaves - Duck (code: 4-2-1, guess: 4-1-3, interception: 3-4-1)
Round 3 Fame - Mod - Die (code: 1-2-3, guess: 1-2-3, interception: 3-2-4)
Round 4 Desk - Tusk - Line (code: 4-3-1, guess: 4-3-1, interception: 4-3-2)
Clues for 1 Beach, Duck, Fame, Line
Clues for 2 Fire, Leaves, Mod
Clues for 3 Die, Tusk
Clues for 4 Checkout, Brush, Desk

[ghostofmars]

Both teams nearly intercepted.

jotheonah and bitwise, your turn.

[jotheonah]

Ok. Getting harder now!

King - Militia - Dough

[bitwise]

Trainer - Block - Space

[jotheonah]

Our team’s guess for your code is 1-4-3

[Swowl]

update: we were slacking. we are talking it out now. should be underway soon. sorry for delay all!

[Swowl]

Our team's guess for your code is 2-1-4

[Swowl]

whoops that was bitwise's job - sorry!

they gotta do the next part tho any ways

[jotheonah]

My team guessed 4-3-1, which is incorrect.

The correct code was 3-2-1

[ghostofmars]

@bitwise: What did your team guess for your clue?

[bitwise]

My team guessed 2-1-4, which was incorrect. My code was 2-4-1.

I think that ends the game? Sorry team!

[scolapasta]

Should we still try to guess each other's words? I think we are fairly unsure of yours.

[ghostofmars]

Thanks everyone for playing.

Congrats to scolapasta and jotheonah.

What I found interesting is that over the course of three games this drifted from where you could have an idea what the other team is thinking to winning by screwing up less

I had already thought about my next clue, so if you want you can try to solve
Virus - Syringe - Pharmacy
before reading our thread to figure out what is correct.

The only code word I feel I have any idea about is 1 - Marine.

@jtotheonah: Can you reveal what you wanted to hint at with your last clue?

[jotheonah]

So for fear, I thought that if I could use a last name of a well-known horror author, my team would get it and the other team would not. So who's more well-known than Stephen King?

Militia for minute, of course, because of the Minute Men.

And of course Dough was an attempt at a veiled reference to business.

[jotheonah]

Virus - Syringe - Pharmacy

3-4-1?

[ghostofmars]

3-4-1?

Yes.

So for fear, I thought that if I could use a last name of a well-known horror author, my team would get it and the other team would not. So who's more well-known than Stephen King?

Militia for minute, of course, because of the Minute Men.

I should have seen the connection to Stephen King, but I did not know about the Minutemen before.

[jotheonah]

Out of curiosity, what's your nationality ghost?

[ghostofmars]

German.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, the Minutemen are something that I think probably every American learns in school, but I didn't think about the fact that much of this forum is not American. Shame on me.

[scolapasta]

I mean, I should have gotten Minutemen.

[jotheonah]

Other team, come post your QT, I wanna know what your words were.

[faust]

Here you go:

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/5xGADHAx9XSD

[jotheonah]

Do we want to play again? This game got a bit sluggish at the end...

[scolapasta]

It does seem to get a little sluggish, and last round, but I would play again.

[ghostofmars]

I would play again if we introduce some time limits. For guessing ~48h should be fine. I'm not sure what can be done about the clue giving. My feeling was that we started to over-engineer the clues, which takes a bit the fun out of guessing. Anyone has a clever idea?

[faust]

I think I'm going to take a bit of a break from this.

[Swowl]

I am in. I think Galz mentioned they would like to take a run at it too.

However, yes Time limits should be applied in some fashion.

Maybe like 48 hours, discluding weekends or something?

[jotheonah]

Let's have Galz replace faust and then maybe mix up the teams just for fun.

ghost, bitwise, you in?

[ghostofmars]

yes

[bitwise]

Count me in. I would like a time limit as well.

[Swowl]

ok well while we wait on captain slow poke... *throws a shoe at Galz*... what do we want to do about the time restrictions?

Like...
Round 1: Game starts -> 48 hours for clue giver to give clues -> 48 hours for guessers to guess

Round 2+: 48 hours for clue giver to give clues -> 48 hours for opponent guesses -> additional 24 hours for same team guesses?


- Clue giver's clues are due in thread within 48 hours.
- Interception guesses due  48 hours after clue post deadline.
- Miscommunication guesses due 24 hours after Interception deadline.

*The above is good for the clue giver because it always allows them 48 hours of isolated time to come up with their hints.
**We could just make Miscommunication and Interception DLs at the same time... would that be easier?


what yall think?

[Swowl]

In terms of timeline it would be easy to keep track I guess.

Like just say either every game we cycle an assigned "Time Keeper" or we can make it the job each round of the Clue Givers.... but essentially, whenever a phase starts we just come up with a template and it goes into the thread. Something like:

- Deadline for Clues to be posted in thread are due by someday at sometime FT.
- Deadline for Interception guesses to be posted in thread are due by someday at sometime FT.

or even just super generic: Next deadline is Someday at Sometime FT.


more just because I think it would be nice to have the handy reference point in the thread updated and all so no one accidentally misses.

Speaking of which we would have to decide how serious we want the rules to be:
- What happens if someone misses deadline? Do they just lose the opportunity to guess that round? Do they get a token? Should we implement a time token?
- Also, just my two cents, I think that at the start of any given round... if someone is the clue giver and they know they are VLA coming up or just super busy... I think extensions should kind of be given upon request, as long as they don't get carried away.

[Galzria]

Oh - didn’t realize it was over. Sure, in.

[jotheonah]

In terms of timeline it would be easy to keep track I guess.

Like just say either every game we cycle an assigned "Time Keeper" or we can make it the job each round of the Clue Givers.... but essentially, whenever a phase starts we just come up with a template and it goes into the thread. Something like:

- Deadline for Clues to be posted in thread are due by someday at sometime FT.
- Deadline for Interception guesses to be posted in thread are due by someday at sometime FT.

or even just super generic: Next deadline is Someday at Sometime FT.


more just because I think it would be nice to have the handy reference point in the thread updated and all so no one accidentally misses.

Speaking of which we would have to decide how serious we want the rules to be:
- What happens if someone misses deadline? Do they just lose the opportunity to guess that round? Do they get a token? Should we implement a time token?
- Also, just my two cents, I think that at the start of any given round... if someone is the clue giver and they know they are VLA coming up or just super busy... I think extensions should kind of be given upon request, as long as they don't get carried away.

Yeah it's tricky. I think for no-downside guesses (I.e. interception attempts) there's no penalty for failing to guess other than losing your chance to intercept. But for same-team guesses where a wrong guess would earn you a token, failing to guess should count as a wrong guess. I would love to give one warning, but the problem is then teams could start using their warning strategically to skip a guess when they aren't sure.

So I would suggest this: For guessing the other team's clue, no penalty for failing to guess. For guessing your own team's clue, the first time you get an automatic 24-hour extension with a warning. After that it counts as a wrong guess. That seems fair and generous.

I think for simplicity sake there should be one 48-hour deadline for both guesses. And I agree that extensions asked for IN ADVANCE should be honored on request.

[scolapasta]

In terms of timeline it would be easy to keep track I guess.

Like just say either every game we cycle an assigned "Time Keeper" or we can make it the job each round of the Clue Givers.... but essentially, whenever a phase starts we just come up with a template and it goes into the thread. Something like:

- Deadline for Clues to be posted in thread are due by someday at sometime FT.
- Deadline for Interception guesses to be posted in thread are due by someday at sometime FT.

or even just super generic: Next deadline is Someday at Sometime FT.


more just because I think it would be nice to have the handy reference point in the thread updated and all so no one accidentally misses.

Speaking of which we would have to decide how serious we want the rules to be:
- What happens if someone misses deadline? Do they just lose the opportunity to guess that round? Do they get a token? Should we implement a time token?
- Also, just my two cents, I think that at the start of any given round... if someone is the clue giver and they know they are VLA coming up or just super busy... I think extensions should kind of be given upon request, as long as they don't get carried away.

Yeah it's tricky. I think for no-downside guesses (I.e. interception attempts) there's no penalty for failing to guess other than losing your chance to intercept. But for same-team guesses where a wrong guess would earn you a token, failing to guess should count as a wrong guess. I would love to give one warning, but the problem is then teams could start using their warning strategically to skip a guess when they aren't sure.

So I would suggest this: For guessing the other team's clue, no penalty for failing to guess. For guessing your own team's clue, the first time you get an automatic 24-hour extension with a warning. After that it counts as a wrong guess. That seems fair and generous.

I think for simplicity sake there should be one 48-hour deadline for both guesses. And I agree that extensions asked for IN ADVANCE should be honored on request.

When exactly does the clock for submitting guesses start?

An example (assuming this is round 2)
Day 1: 00:01: Round starts, 48 hour timer for clue giving ends Day 3 00:01
Day 1: 12:30: Team 1gives their clue
Day 2: 11:30: Team 2 gives their clue

Option 1: 48 hour timer for clue guessing ends Day 5 00:01 (starts when clue giving timer ends)
Option 2: 48 hour timer for clue guessing ends Day 4 11:30 (starts when both clues are given)
Option 3: 48 hour timers for clue guessing ends Day 3 12:30 / Day 4: 11:30 (starts individually for when each clue is given)

I think we can rule out 3 as too complicated. But I could see arguments for both 1 and 2.

One thing about the window the same for both clues is that you really shouldn't post your clue for your team until the other team guesses first. So we may actually need a separate timer after that posts. Not critical as I don't think of any of us are into shenanigans, but say you wait until the end of the 48 hours, that shouldn't make you default on your team's guess. (or feel you have to post it first.

So I would stick with the two separate. 48 hours timer for intercept clues, then 24 hours additional for your team's clues.

^^^ this would be an argument for windows starting ASAP, i.e. when both clues are given or when both intercepts are given, etc.

[jotheonah]

That sounds fine to me.

[Swowl]

OK Summarizing it up before we start then:

1) Timers
 - Round 1 will start when everyone checks in and we pick a day/time to start. From there, 48 hours for clues to be posted, followed by 48 hours for guesses to be posted.
 - Round 2 (and beyond) will start at the time that Round 1 ends. From there, 48 hours for Interception guesses to be posted, followed by an ADDITIONAL 24 hours for Team guesses.
 - Timers will be posted as a community effort. Let's all just work together on this one to try and make it happen.

2) Rules
 - If you miss posting your Interception guess, there is no penalty, you just do not get the chance to intercept.
 - The first time you mis your Same Team guess, your team will be given an extension of 24 hours. After that, it counts as a miscommunication token.
 - If you know you will need more time, please just state so at the beginning of the round (or before) and we will deal with it case-by-case.

Everyone in agreement?

If yes, and we want to scramble teams, lmk and I can rando.org it and we can get rolling

[Swowl]

oh and I guess important.

I agree with the others - Timers should reset when the last team to get that phases post in posts to thread. Alternative would be to run the timer our each time, but I don't really see the point in that.

[scolapasta]

Great! One other suggestion for community effort, we establish order for each team before game start (part of the randomization is fine by me) and then we cna help remind each other. I don't want either team to lose valuable time by not realize who's turn it is.

[Swowl]

Great! One other suggestion for community effort, we establish order for each team before game start (part of the randomization is fine by me) and then we cna help remind each other. I don't want either team to lose valuable time by not realize who's turn it is.

Word. Good idea.

[ghostofmars]

- Timers will be posted as a community effort. Let's all just work together on this one to try and make it happen.

Isn't it simpler that whenever an action is taken that updates a timer the person taking that action also post the updated timer? So:
- Post clue and set timer for 48h for opponent team to intercept.
- Post interception attempt and set timer for 24h for team to guess.
- First team reveals miscommunication/interception -> no new timer.
- Second team reveals miscommunication/interception and set timer 48h for next clue from both teams. State the name of the players that should give the next clue.

[Swowl]

- Timers will be posted as a community effort. Let's all just work together on this one to try and make it happen.

Isn't it simpler that whenever an action is taken that updates a timer the person taking that action also post the updated timer? So:
- Post clue and set timer for 48h for opponent team to intercept.
- Post interception attempt and set timer for 24h for team to guess.
- First team reveals miscommunication/interception -> no new timer.
- Second team reveals miscommunication/interception and set timer 48h for next clue from both teams. State the name of the players that should give the next clue.

word actually I like that. takes like almost no extra effort and keeps things streamlined.

Everyone good?

[scolapasta]

I'm ok with anything at this point.

But just to be clear, the way I read this last, was it would be separate timers for each set of clues. Did I read that correctly?

[Swowl]

separate as in refreshing... not as in separate for each team.

one universal timer that starts at the beginning of every new phase.

I think.

[ghostofmars]

I had indeed thought of a separate timer for each team to intercept. Just to avoid creating an incentive to delay posting your clue.

[ghostofmars]

But you could also just start the timer with the second clue.

[ghostofmars]

Thread for the next round is here.