Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Collecting Ways  (Read 1275 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

segura

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 843
  • Respect: +378
    • View Profile
Collecting Ways
« on: April 07, 2020, 02:10:47 pm »
+3

I think it might be fun to collect some Way ideas.



Alligator, Beetle, Goose, Hippo and Tiger are based on ideas from here .
Gargoyle is Way of the Demon by grrgrrgrr.
Hare is based on the Kingdom card Rabbits by kru5h

Alligator is a terminal Cursed Gold, Bear and Goose are obvious, although not everybody will like a Bear which can teleport over Moats.
Bettle is a bit weak and Eagle is a this-turn Dungeon / smaller Warehouse. Meh, we already got a sifter with Mole. These two still need work.
Fox is kinda like a universal Coppersmith or a scaling sheep, Gargoyle by grgrgrgr is simple and good (there are only 6 Ghost so nothing too crazy can happen) and Hare is hopfully as fun as kru5h's Rabbits.
Hippo seems like the most thematic card (submerge and wait), Magpie is probably mainly good in money (in an engine, Mule is likely better), Manatee is just a delayed Throne (I though about playing it this turn and next, like the card that DXV tested for Seaside, but that seemed too strong), Octopus might be wacky with TfB, Panda tries to do stuff with Villagers while not being better than Ox and Parrot is again thematic, copying stuff (that could obviously be too good, increasing consistency like crazy: if you start your turn with a village in hand you can never dud).
Reindeer is based on a fan card called Deer (I somehow cannot find it though) which had the very same text, Tiger is BoM (but is that really good if you play Tiger on a $4 or $3?) and Zebra is hopefully not that much better than Otter.



UPDATE 1: Thanks for all the feedback, especially concerning Magpie. I tried all kind of stuff with drawing and digging but did not find anything that felt interesting or balanced. So into the bin she flies.
Parrot got a slight nerf. It is simple and avoids complicated wordings (emulators are already rule-wacky enough), but I am not sure whether it suffices.


This is a mock-up Aquila's self-Throning idea, slightly modified. Harsher with the self-trashing, softer and perhaps mega-turny due to the lack of a once per turn restricton.


Two further mock-up for Aqulia's card (his Fox is my Wolf).


This is a wild idea and I hope that the cost mechanism prevents this from becoming too crazy. But you never know. Hey, at least Prince never duds now. Unless Prince of Mammoths finds mere green.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 08:48:41 am by segura »
Logged

D782802859

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +217
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2020, 03:12:13 pm »
+1

Alligator is fine, but maybe too variable for a Way. Bear is probably a bad idea, attacking Ways don't seem like a good play experience. Beetle is just a good vanilla card. Eagle is the same as an outtake passed on for mole, the main problem is that it was used too much, but it isn't a bad idea. Fox is definitely too strong especially compared to Sheep, it's so often better. Gargoyle is fine. Goose is very weak since most of the boon options are the same or worse than other official Ways. Hare isn't something that's likely to play well on a way i think? Hippo is maybe a bit too harmful to attacks and on-demand moats aren't great play experiences. Magpie is worse than Pig, Magpie is sometimes a cantrip while pig always is. Maybe it could dig for a treasure, like Venture? Manatee works pretty well probably. Octopus, like any trash gainer needs some way to put things in the trash. Panda works pretty well. Parrot is very likely too strong. Perhaps a cost restriction, it only works on cards up to 4, or up to the cost of what you used the way on. Reindeer is definitely too good. Tiger is very good and Zebra works well.
Logged

spineflu

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 679
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • +1 Coffers, +1 Respect
  • Respect: +405
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 03:17:22 pm »
+1

you didn't grab the ones from the APCI thread?
Way of the Slime
You may return this and a card with the same name from your hand to the Supply to gain a card costing double this cards cost in $.

Audience
Way

(Once per turn) You may play an Action card from your hand twice.

I'm sure I have more.  I love whimsical concepts and workable mechanics, but this one was extremely straightlaced, aside from breaking a naming convention.

Not sure this one really adds enough to be worth including, but whatever:

Way of the Dove
Way

If this is an Attack, +1 VP.
Otherwise:
 +1 Card
 +1 Action

Play-as-cantrip ability alone makes it quite usable without Attacks on the board.

segura

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 843
  • Respect: +378
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2020, 04:14:20 pm »
+1

Sorry, I did not see them. A MiniForge or Throne Room are in my opinion too strong for Ways. Dove is also dubious as mixture between Pig and an unlimited Worm (of course one can do Ways which are superior to existing ones).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 04:16:16 pm by segura »
Logged

Gubump

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 783
  • Respect: +525
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2020, 04:50:27 pm »
0



As worded, this counts copies other players have in play. I'm not sure if that's intentional, but it probably shouldn't because it can easily become too overpowering in multiplayer.



This should probably be limited to non-Victory Supply piles, as it can lead to a stalemate if placed on the Province pile.



Isn't this strictly worse than Way of the Pig, since Pig is always a cantrip instead of a conditional one?



As worded, this allows infinite loops, since you can keep using Way of the Parrot on the card played with Way of the Parrot. Sure, that infinite loop is only useful with the tokens from Adventures, but it's still worth rephrasing to avoid that. I would recommend this wording: "Play a non-Command Action card that you have in play without using a Way, leaving it there."
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 04:52:39 pm by Gubump »
Logged
All of my fan card mockups are credited to Violet CLM and his Dominion Card Image Generator.

Aquila

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
  • Respect: +371
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2020, 06:19:45 pm »
+2

I like this, I've found designing Ways to be great fun. Find great mechanics and/or describe animal behaviour at the same time. I'll put my list of ideas here and comment on Segura's as I go.

My version of Way of the Eagle is Spy:
Quote
Way of the Eagle
+1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of their deck and discards or puts it back, your choice. Then draw a card.
For when you want to know your top card or your opponents. And unlike bears, eagles can fly over moats; hopefully the Attack is mild enough. Maybe this shouldn't draw a card either, to limit the temptation to play Spy chains that got the 1st edition card removed. But then is it strong enough?

I thought of a Way of the Wolf that has the same premise as Fox, counting copies in play, reflecting its being a pack animal and working nicely with Wolf Den. Not sure if + $1 per copy is a bit too strong? A 5/5 split on a Village or Lab is quite an easy + $5. I had:
Quote
Way of the Wolf
Gain a card costing exactly $1 per copy of this you have in play.
Could be too hard to pull off nicely most of the time, but maybe fine on a Way.

For Fox I had scavenging:
Quote
Way of the Fox
+1 Buy
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
A niche effect, but when you do want it it's useful, so being on a Way lets you access it at those times easily. +Buy helps usefulness more, and vaguely reflects the fox on Ranger.

Hippo is nice and can be strategic. Magpie is obvious if not weak in comparison to the Pig; 'Otherwise you may discard it' maybe, to move Victories along. Manatee would have the sideways card that played as it and the set aside card left out for next turn, wouldn't it? Quite a sacrifice.

Surely Octopus could be a Vulture. I have this on my ideas list:
Quote
Way of the Vulture
Gain a non-Victory card from the trash. If it costs $2 or less, + $2.
Limited to non-Victory to avoid Province tfb, and has the boost for $2-s for when tfb isn't available.

Speaking of Octopuses though, here's an idea I had that could fit:
Quote
Way of the Spider
If you have exactly 8 cards in play, gain a card costing up to $5.
Octopus might be the friendlier animal to choose for the general public. Gaining a $5 might be too nice a reward, it could tone down to + $3 or something.

Panda is also doing the counting cards in play premise, feels like it should be nice.

(Deleted Way of the Parrot)

Reindeer is nice, a limited Peddler. Saves a collision of two identical terminals.

Tiger is an outtake Donald mentioned in his Menagerie secret history. Option overload, analysis paralysis.

For the others, why not? Well I'm not too sure on gargoyle taking away all the limitations exorcist imposes (buying it, lining the two cards up). 


And here's a few more ideas:

Quote
Way of the Shark
Trash up to 2 cards from your discard pile.
Could be a hermit crab, after Hermit, but sharks eat stuff underwater i.e away from your hand. This follows the same idea as my fox, narrow windows of opportunity that are easily accessible as a Way. 2 cards might be too many, too swingy.

Quote
Way of the Rabbit
If this is the second time you've used Way of the Rabbit this turn, gain a copy of each card that followed the Way.
Another premise: count the number of times the Way is used. This could go bigger than 2 for something exciting. Don't know about balance here.

Quote
Way of the Tortoise
+ $2
Put a card from your hand onto your deck.
Go slow, retract into shell. Sometimes useful terminal clash solution.

Thrones could indeed be too strong for a Way, so how's this?
Quote
Way of the Crow
Once per turn: gain a Curse to play this twice.
Once per turn saves this endlessly throning itself. And did I see this posted somewhere else?


These are just ideas, no testing yet. I've only had a little go with the Shark, nothing conclusive. Again though, nice thread!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 03:01:18 am by Aquila »
Logged

scolapasta

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 393
  • Respect: +387
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2020, 06:35:27 pm »
+1

I've got a few that are "once per turn", so as to allow more powerful options, while limiting their use.

Here's one I had posted in the WDC:



Tiger is an outtake Donald mentioned in his Menagerie secret history. Option overload, analysis paralysis.

I have a "once per turn" version (Way of the Lyrebird) so as to limit the analysis paralysis:

"Once per turn, play a non-Command Action card from the Supply that costs less than this, leaving it there."

Thrones could indeed be too strong for a Way, so how's this?
Quote
Way of the Crow
Once per turn: gain a Curse to play this twice.
Once per turn saves this endlessly throning itself. And did I see this posted somewhere else?

And of course, Way of the Lion, "once per turn, play this twice". You've added the curse weaken, but I'm not sure it needs it.

I did post aN RBCI Way of the Scorbion, that gains a curse. Obviously as a joke, but I'm thinking of making it work by being similar to your Way of the Crow - gaining a curse to get something good.
Logged
Feel free to join us at scolapasta's cards for discussion on any of my custom cards.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8863
  • Respect: +9645
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2020, 06:37:28 pm »
+2

Not a fan of “attack” type ways because they avoid reactions.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Gubump

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 783
  • Respect: +525
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2020, 11:01:50 pm »
+1

My Parrot is a bit more limited:
Quote
Way of the Parrot
Follow the instructions of the earliest Action you played this turn that doesn't cost more than this and is still in play.
No replaying a starting Grand Market with a Chapel. 'Earliest Action' I hope makes sense?
Edited ('replay' to 'follow the instructions of') to avoid infinite loops, thanks Gubump.

This doesn't avoid infinite loops. I have my - Cost token on Captain. After playing Captain, I play a Laboratory, using Way of the Parrot. Parrot follows the instructions of Captain, playing a card costing from the Supply, using Way of the Parrot to follow the instructions of Captain, ad infinitum.

Easier infinite loop: I play Overlord, then play any other Action ( doesn't cost more than, say, ), and do the same thing as with Overlord).

That said, the second example also shows that costs other than in break Parrot. You could play King's Court as an Overlord or as a Possession. Of course, the second example isn't actually useful unless you have an Adventures token on Overlord, or some card costing up to in the Supply.
Logged
All of my fan card mockups are credited to Violet CLM and his Dominion Card Image Generator.

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1633
  • Respect: +1289
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2020, 11:34:20 pm »
+1

Way of the Spider
Set this aside. The next time you play an Action card, first play this.

Way of the Locust
Trash a card from the Supply which doesn't have any copies in the Trash

Way of the Basilisk
Discard any number of cards from your hand for +$1 each

Way of the Mare
Gain a Horse onto your deck
Logged

Aquila

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
  • Respect: +371
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2020, 03:21:42 am »
0

My Parrot is a bit more limited:
Quote
Way of the Parrot
Follow the instructions of the earliest Action you played this turn that doesn't cost more than this and is still in play.
No replaying a starting Grand Market with a Chapel. 'Earliest Action' I hope makes sense?
Edited ('replay' to 'follow the instructions of') to avoid infinite loops, thanks Gubump.

This doesn't avoid infinite loops. I have my - Cost token on Captain. After playing Captain, I play a Laboratory, using Way of the Parrot. Parrot follows the instructions of Captain, playing a card costing from the Supply, using Way of the Parrot to follow the instructions of Captain, ad infinitum.

Easier infinite loop: I play Overlord, then play any other Action ( doesn't cost more than, say, ), and do the same thing as with Overlord).

That said, the second example also shows that costs other than in break Parrot. You could play King's Court as an Overlord or as a Possession. Of course, the second example isn't actually useful unless you have an Adventures token on Overlord, or some card costing up to in the Supply.
Sure, thanks. So basically Parrot can't exist because of Captain. That's funny thematically.

Way of the Spider
Set this aside. The next time you play an Action card, first play this.
This seems awkward, in that it really wants to draw cards as well to find other Actions but if it does so it basically adds draw to every Action you play. Besides Adventures tokens are there many uses for this?
Logged

pst

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 575
  • Respect: +887
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2020, 05:04:44 am »
+2

Isn't this strictly worse than Way of the Pig, since Pig is always a cantrip instead of a conditional one?

I don't think that should matter, since they don't appear together (if you play the game according to recommendations).
Logged

Holger

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
  • Respect: +232
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2020, 04:03:27 pm »
0

My Parrot is a bit more limited:
Quote
Way of the Parrot
Follow the instructions of the earliest Action you played this turn that doesn't cost more than this and is still in play.
No replaying a starting Grand Market with a Chapel. 'Earliest Action' I hope makes sense?
Edited ('replay' to 'follow the instructions of') to avoid infinite loops, thanks Gubump.

This doesn't avoid infinite loops. I have my - Cost token on Captain. After playing Captain, I play a Laboratory, using Way of the Parrot. Parrot follows the instructions of Captain, playing a card costing from the Supply, using Way of the Parrot to follow the instructions of Captain, ad infinitum.

Easier infinite loop: I play Overlord, then play any other Action ( doesn't cost more than, say, ), and do the same thing as with Overlord).

That said, the second example also shows that costs other than in break Parrot. You could play King's Court as an Overlord or as a Possession. Of course, the second example isn't actually useful unless you have an Adventures token on Overlord, or some card costing up to in the Supply.
Sure, thanks. So basically Parrot can't exist because of Captain. That's funny thematically.


Why not restrict it a little more to  prevent that? I'd suggest:

Quote
Way of the Parrot
Follow the instructions of the earliest non-Command Action you played this turn that costs less than this and is still in play.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1633
  • Respect: +1289
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2020, 11:55:40 pm »
0


Way of the Spider
Set this aside. The next time you play an Action card, first play this.
This seems awkward, in that it really wants to draw cards as well to find other Actions but if it does so it basically adds draw to every Action you play. Besides Adventures tokens are there many uses for this?

It doesn't specify "this turn". It's a variant of Way of the Turtle/Frog, except instead of delaying it to be at the start of a turn of your choosing, you delay it to be before playing an action of your choosing (eg drawing cards before playing a discard for benefit). More explicitly aimed at combos.
Logged

segura

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 843
  • Respect: +378
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2020, 08:14:52 am »
0

I updated the first post, mainly with some mock-ups of Aquila's cards.
Logged

kru5h

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 307
  • Respect: +202
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2020, 08:26:37 pm »
+1

I feel honored that somebody would make a Way based on one of my fan cards, but, sadly, I don't think that Way of the Hare works right.

The original Rabbits card cost 0. So if you put it on top of another pile, it doesn't cost anything to remove it, only a buy. This can be annoying if there are no buys in the game, so Rabbits also provides +1 buy to ensure that it's in the kingdom. Way of the Hare has neither of these benefits, so it can really slow the game down, possibly locking somebody out by putting expensive cards on Copper and Silver so that they can never buy more money.

Rabbits


Way of the Hare:

Aquila

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
  • Respect: +371
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2020, 08:15:35 am »
0

...
Sure, thanks. So basically Parrot can't exist because of Captain. That's funny thematically.


Why not restrict it a little more to  prevent that? I'd suggest:

Quote
Way of the Parrot
Follow the instructions of the earliest non-Command Action you played this turn that costs less than this and is still in play.
That could work of course. Don't know why I tried to avoid 'non-Command'...


Way of the Spider
Set this aside. The next time you play an Action card, first play this.
This seems awkward, in that it really wants to draw cards as well to find other Actions but if it does so it basically adds draw to every Action you play. Besides Adventures tokens are there many uses for this?

It doesn't specify "this turn". It's a variant of Way of the Turtle/Frog, except instead of delaying it to be at the start of a turn of your choosing, you delay it to be before playing an action of your choosing (eg drawing cards before playing a discard for benefit). More explicitly aimed at combos.
OK sure, that's got its uses. The reason I read it wrong is because I had an idea that set aside just for the current turn.



With some more thought I've made that idea into this:
Quote
Way of the Cat
Choose one: put this on your Tavern mat; or discard this to play a non-Reserve Action card on your Tavern mat.
Use the Tavern mat as the set aside zone and you can truly wait until the opportune time. You could also remove your Actions from your deck like this, which apart from Ruins I don't think will be a problem?
Logged

Marcory

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 710
  • Respect: +1154
    • View Profile
Re: Collecting Ways
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2020, 11:41:58 am »
+6

Why is there not a Way of the Whey? Would it be too cheesy? Or would Donald X be accused of milking cards for all they're worth? Maybe he has an entry in his dairy about it? Or maybe it just never, uh, curd to him.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 09:05:55 pm by Marcory »
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.101 seconds with 20 queries.