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[mail-mi]

Speak again the ancient Oaths:

Life before Death
Strength before Weakness
Journey before Destination

and return to men the Shards they once bore. The Knights Radiant must stand again.

RMM56: Stormlight Archive Mafia

This is a semi-open, invented set-up for 18 players.

Comod: 2.71828....

Player List:
1. Dylan32
2. LaLight Town Skybreaker, killed N3
3. faust
4. MiX
5. hypercube Mafia Windrunner Traitor, lynched D3
6. scolapasta
7. WestCoastDidds Town Lightweaver, killed N2
8. Swowl Mafia Edgedancer, killed N4
9. Rhand
10. cayvie Town Skybreaker, killed N1
11. jotheonah Mafia Lightweaver, lynched D2
12. EFHW Mafia Willshaper, lynched D1
13. Uncleeurope
14. Galzria
15. GreatHallScout Town Stoneware, killed N4
16. chairs
17. Glooble
18. Jimmmmm

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.


The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay. The exception is anything the MOD posts in the openly public Game Thread.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved based on the order they were received. 
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post at least once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.



The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable if they are already in common use. Your vote may not be counted if it cannot be picked up by an automated vote counter.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. While I will do my best to count all votes the first time through, the best way to ensure your vote is not missed is by giving it a separate line of text in the post.
   Example Post:
      Jimmy is skummy.
      Vote: Jimmy
      Others should vote Jimmy.



The Rest:
1. The lime green text color and the purple text color are reserved for the Mods. Players may not use it, or anything that looks similar. To avoid confusion, please remove mod color if quoting the mod's posts.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM or in your Role QT. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. A prod may be requested in the game thread by any player, after a player has gone 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or Mod Killed after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Please use your best judgment when phrasing from your personal QT. If you are unsure whether it is allowed, please ask the MOD in your QT. 
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or night kill, town wins.



Deadlines:
1. Days will last 7 IRL days, though this will be adjusted for weekends and holidays.
2. Nights will last sometime between 36 and 48 hours. Night actions are due 35 hours after game end.
3. Twilight will last 6 hours or until all players have checked in, whichever comes first. Any post in the main game thread or a qt constitutes a check-in. If you have an action that can occur during twilight, you may provisionally post your action in your personal qt during the day by posting Twilight Action: action command. If the action is invalid for whatever reason, it will automatically fail and not count against you. Otherwise, it will occur immediately at the start of twilight.


Day starts/ends:
Day 1 Start

[mail-mi]

Setup Information

1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Knights_Radiant). There will be no flavor names for town or mafia players, though powers will be associated with which Order each Knight belongs to (see the third section of the above wiki page)

2. Spheres: Most players' powers will involve the use of spheres (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Spheres) Each player will be allotted a number of spheres at the beginning of the game. Spheres can either be infused with Stormlight or dun. Most role powers involve the use of Stormlight. Once used, infused spheres become dun. Spheres are also a form of currency and may be used to purchase different things throughout the game.

For example, a role power may say:

Cop: Each night, you may use 5 infused spheres' worth of Stormlight to target a player. You will learn that player's alignment.

If the player chooses to use this ability, 5 of their infused spheres would become dun, and they would get to Cop another player. After using an infused sphere, it is still in your possession. You must have the correct number of infused spheres before choosing to use a role power. If you choose to purchase something with a sphere, it is spent and no longer in your possession. You may not use an infused sphere and then attempt to purchase something with that sphere in the same night.

3. Houses: Each player will be a member of a House. House membership has no effect on alignment and vice versa. Each House will have a QT that is accessible to each member of the House. This House QT is closed at all times except during highstorms (see 4).

4. Highstorms: The continent of Roshar is constantly barraged by a hurricane-level storm called a highstorm (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Highstorm) which sweeps across the land every few days. Highstorms will come during this game. When they come during the day, the main thread will be locked for a period of 48 hours. When they come during night, players will not be able to perform any night actions save for factional kills. Either way, players will seek shelter with other House members, and House QTs will be open for the duration of the highstorm.

Additionally, highstorms also carry Stormlight. Players may choose to leave dun spheres out in the highstorm, and at the end of the highstorm, those spheres will be reinfused. They do this by posting Leave out X Spheres during the highstorm in their personal QT.

5. Thieving: Each player has the chance to steal other players' spheres that they left out during a highstorm. Players can only steal from members of their same House. To attempt to steal, a player posts Steal from PlayerY in their personal QT during a highstorm. If only 1 person steals from PlayerX, they will receive half of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm. If two players steal from PlayerX, each player will receive one third of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm, and etc.

If you'd like to protect your spheres, you can pay 15 infused spheres or 20 dun spheres that you aren't setting out in the highstorm for the Sphere Protection Program. Any thieving action targeting a player who has paid for the Sphere Protection Program will fail. The Sphere Protection Program lasts the duration of 1 highstorm.

6. Alignment Changing: Alignment changing is possible in this game for certain players. You will be notified if your alignment is capable of changing.

7. Each alignment has a flavor blurb at the beginning of their QT. Here is Town's:

Odium has brought the Voidbringers, and now he has infiltrated even the honorable Knights Radiant with his minions. You must cleanse yourselves before you can have hope to overcome the True Desolation.

8. Night Action Resolution: This simple process will be followed in order to resolve night actions:
1. Find an action (or a passive modifier, such as Bulletproof) such that its effect cannot possibly be modified by any other action.
2. Resolve it.
3. Repeat from step 1 until all actions are resolved.

In cases of conflicting actions, night actions will be resolved in the following order:
1. Hide
2. Bus Drive/Redirect
3. Block
4. Protect
5. Miscellaneous
6. Kill
7. Recruit
8. Inspect
9. Stormlight Draining

[mail-mi]

As a reminder, both town and mafia will have Knights Radiant. Each Knight Radiant is a member of an Order, and each Order has access to 2 Surges. As an example, the Windrunners are an Order of the Knights Radiant, and they have access to the Surges of Adhesion and Gravitation. Each Surge gives a player access to 2 role powers that they can use at night or during the day, depending on the power. A player may only use a maximum of 1 power from each Surge each night (or day).

Surge: Adhesion
Orders that can access this Surge: Bondsmiths and Windrunners
Role Powers:
Roleblocker: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to bind another player to the ground. Any actions they take that night will be blocked.

Rolestopper: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to coat the ground around a player with Stormlight. Any non-killing actions that target that player will be blocked.


Surge: Gravitation
Orders that can access this Surge: Windrunners and Skybreakers
Role Powers:
Lightning Rod: Each night, you may spend 50 spheres of Stormlight to make yourself the center of gravity. Every action taken that night will be redirected to you.

Watcher: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to take to the skies and watch a player. You will be told who targeted that player that night, but not what actions they targeted them with.


Surge: Division
Orders that can access this Surge: Skybreakers and Dustbringers
Role Powers:
Vigilante: Each night, you may spend 50 spheres of Stormlight to divide another player. That player will be killed.

Stormlight Drainer: Each night, you may spend any number of spheres of Stormlight to drain another player. That player will lose stormlight from the same number of spheres you used, plus 5. This will happen after they take any actions that night.


Surge: Abrasion
Orders that can access this Surge: Dustbringers and Edgedancers
Role Powers:
Ascetic-izer: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to make any player (including yourself) frictionless. During that night and the next, that player will gain the Ascetic modifier (Any non-killing actions that target them will fail).

Ninja: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to make yourself move swiftly and quietly. Any other actions you take that night will not be able to be detected by Trackers, Watchers, Followers, or Voyeurs.


Surge: Progression
Orders that can access this Surge: Edgedancers and Truthwatchers
Role Powers:
Doctor: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to heal another player. That player will be immune to any night kills.

Lynchproof-izer: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to give another player new growth. During the next day, that player will be Lynchproof.


Surge: Illumination
Orders that can access this Surge: Truthwatchers and Lightweavers
Role Powers:
Alignment Inverter: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to give someone else a disguise. To Cops and other similar roles, that player will appear as non-Town aligned if they are Town aligned and Town aligned if they are non-Town aligned.

Cop: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to see the truth about another player. You will be told if they are Town or non-Town aligned.


Surge: Transformation
Orders that can access this Surge: Lightweavers and Elsecallers
Role Powers:
Inventor: Each night, you may spend 10 spheres of Stormlight to create one of the following inventions and give it to another player (You may only give away 1 invention per night):

• Spanreeds
• Diminishing Painrial
• Augmenting Painrial
• Alerter

Surge: Transportation
Orders that can access this Surge: Elsecallers and Willshapers
Role Powers:
Commuter: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to go into Shadesmar. Any actions that target you that night will fail.

Tracker: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to follow another player. You will be told which players that player targeted, but not what actions they took.


Surge: Cohesion
Orders that can access this Surge: Willshapers and Stonewards
Role Powers:
Bus Driver: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to temporarily switch the molecular structure of 2 players. Any actions that would target the first player will instead target the second, and vice versa.

Modified Cop: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to investigate 2 players. You will be told if they have the same alignment or not.


Surge: Tension
Orders that can access this Surge: Stonewards and Bondsmiths
Role Powers:
Non-protective Strengthener: Each night, you may spend 5 spheres of Stormlight to strengthen the powers of another player. Each non-protective action they take that night will gain the Strong modifier (it can’t be blocked).

Governor: Each day during twilight, you may spend 50 spheres of Stormlight to take leadership and change decisions. The player that was going to be lynched will not be lynched, and the day will end with no death.


In addition, each Order has access to 1 role power that is unique to their Order. They can use this power each night if they have the Stormlight for it. (This means that a Knight Radiant can take up to 3 actions each night: 1 from each Surge and their Order-specific action).

As a last note, not every Order is guaranteed to be in the game. There may be 1 Edgedancer and 1 Skybreaker, or 4 Edgedancers and no Skybreakers.

The Last Desolation comes, the Everstorm, the Night of Sorrows. We must prepare for its coming.

ODIUM REIGNS.

[shraeye]

Very \in

[LaLight]

/in, i guess

what's with the Mafia Games I don't know flavor of lately

[cayvie]

hoooooly crap 18 players!

i mean maybe if i die in one of these games before it fills up. this is a biggun!

[mail-mi]

hoooooly crap 18 players!

i mean maybe if i die in one of these games before it fills up. this is a biggun!

There is also a 15 player version if we aren't able to get enough people.

[faust]

I've just started the first book... to what extent will I be spoilered if I play?

[mail-mi]

I've just started the first book... to what extent will I be spoilered if I play?

This is only set in the world of Roshar, I am not using any characters from the series. So there should only be minor spoilers about what kind of magic/powers exist.

[EFHW]

I love this series! I'll sign up when I'm not in a game.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’ll play, as long as we start after these other two games are winding down : )

[faust]

I've just started the first book... to what extent will I be spoilered if I play?

This is only set in the world of Roshar, I am not using any characters from the series. So there should only be minor spoilers about what kind of magic/powers exist.

Neat . /in

[mail-mi]

I love this series! I'll sign up when I'm not in a game.

I’ll play, as long as we start after these other two games are winding down : )

The plan is not to start until the other games are over or well on their way to it. The setup isn't completely finalized yet either.

[MiX]

/in then.

[hypercube]

/in

[mail-mi]

/in

Hi! 

[scolapasta]

The plan is not to start until the other games are over or well on their way to it. The setup isn't completely finalized yet either.

Sure, I'll try a 2nd game. /in

[hypercube]

/in

Hi! 

Hi! I finally got around to reading the Imperial Radch trilogy recently, reminded me I should play some forum Mafia again  .

[WestCoastDidds]

/in

Hyper! I’ve missed you!

[WestCoastDidds]

I love this series! I'll sign up when I'm not in a game.

I’ll play, as long as we start after these other two games are winding down : )

The plan is not to start until the other games are over or well on their way to it. The setup isn't completely finalized yet either.

Then /in

[ashersky]

Didn't I run a game with this theme?  I think I did.  I feel like it was a pain with metals and such.

Glad to see it come back!

[ashersky]

RMM26 was Mistborn -- I think that's what I'm thinking of. Stormlight is the same author but different world, right?

[cayvie]

/in

[2.71828.....]

RMM26 was Mistborn -- I think that's what I'm thinking of. Stormlight is the same author but different world, right?

Mistborn and the stormlight archives are the same author and the same universe, just set on different worlds.

All part of Brandon Sanderson's cosmere

[mail-mi]

Setup information updated.

[SpaceAnemone]

/tag

[Swowl]

watch paint dry... play another game... watch paint dry... play another game...

/CoronaIn

[cayvie]

/out for now while i'm practicing for champs

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[cayvie]

Well I'm dead in all my games now so /in

[mail-mi]

Setup info updated!

[shraeye]

/out, hope to /in again eventually

[mail-mi]

setup info updated!

[WestCoastDidds]

setup info updated!

This looks cool! I’m excited to play one of your game small-mi! Thanks for modding!

[ashersky]

Is small-mi a name I missed at some point?

[WestCoastDidds]

Is small-mi a name I missed at some point?

Ha! No...just a typo I didn’t catch

[WestCoastDidds]

But if mail-mi has a kid, they could be small-mi

[ashersky]

Is small-mi a name I missed at some point?

Ha! No...just a typo I didn’t catch

Or was it?

It's now officially his official nickname, and joins mom salon in the league of legendary f.ds nicknames.

[MiX]

Is small-mi a name I missed at some point?

Ha! No...just a typo I didn’t catch

Or was it?

It's now officially his official nickname, and joins mom salon in the league of legendary f.ds nicknames.

It's just officially his nickname. His official nickname is liam, obviously.

I like this idea though. small-mi's a much easier name to write anyway.

[faust]

We could always just start calling him Llams.

[WestCoastDidds]

Is small-mi a name I missed at some point?

Ha! No...just a typo I didn’t catch

Or was it?

It's now officially his official nickname, and joins mom salon in the league of legendary f.ds nicknames.

Yaaaaaaassssssssss

[mail-mi]

But if mail-mi has a kid, they could be small-mi

My wife is pregnant with our first. I'll suggest this name to her, I'm sure shel'l like it

[WestCoastDidds]

But if mail-mi has a kid, they could be small-mi

My wife is pregnant with our first. I'll suggest this name to her, I'm sure shel'l like it

Oh, it just gets better! And congratulations!!

[shraeye]

We could always just start calling him Llams.

This is the post I was looking for.  Double Ll making the 'y' sound of course.

[WestCoastDidds]

We could always just start calling him Llams.

This is the post I was looking for.  Double Ll making the 'y' sound of course.

Yams!

[ashersky]

But if mail-mi has a kid, they could be small-mi

My wife is pregnant with our first. I'll suggest this name to her, I'm sure shel'l like it

Weren't you like 15 years old when f.ds started playing mafia?  How far we've come!

Congrats to you and shraeye!

[ashersky]

We could always just start calling him Llams.

This is the post I was looking for.  Double Ll making the 'y' sound of course.

Yams!

llam-mi (yam me!).

[mail-mi]

But if mail-mi has a kid, they could be small-mi

My wife is pregnant with our first. I'll suggest this name to her, I'm sure shel'l like it

Weren't you like 15 years old when f.ds started playing mafia?  How far we've come!

Congrats to you and shraeye!

Indeed! Thanks!!

[Dylan32]

/in

[WestCoastDidds]

/in

hooray!!

[WestCoastDidds]

yams, you could message Galzria, 2.7, yuma, EFHW, Joseph, raptor, Joth, Glooble, popsofctown, PPS, Skip, and Eevee and probably get some traction....

[WestCoastDidds]

Alright people, I am about to be in no games. Let’s make this happen!

[mail-mi]

yams, you could message Galzria, 2.7, yuma, EFHW, Joseph, raptor, Joth, Glooble, popsofctown, PPS, Skip, and Eevee and probably get some traction....

The setup is about 95% done, and should be 100% very soon, so once it's fully done I'll do some recruiting

[WestCoastDidds]

yams, you could message Galzria, 2.7, yuma, EFHW, Joseph, raptor, Joth, Glooble, popsofctown, PPS, Skip, and Eevee and probably get some traction....

The setup is about 95% done, and should be 100% very soon, so once it's fully done I'll do some recruiting

❤️

[Calamitas]

I am actually considering to play this one! Not quite confident enough about my time constraints to in but definitely interested!

Hey everyone who still remembers me :-)

[mail-mi]

I am actually considering to play this one! Not quite confident enough about my time constraints to in but definitely interested!

Hey everyone who still remembers me :-)

CALAMITAS!

[Calamitas]

I am actually considering to play this one! Not quite confident enough about my time constraints to in but definitely interested!

Hey everyone who still remembers me :-)

CALAMITAS!

Hi mail-mi, congratulations to becoming a father!

Yeah, it has been a while, I think 3 years now :-D

I still remember us being always a good scum team! :-)

[Calamitas]

To those that don’t know me, LaLight, Space and me all started in literally the same game — M85. We then proceeded to play basically every game for the next year or so until I dropped out in April 2017 :-) The three of us also did a pretty good job in the 2016 forum awards, winning most fun to play with, newbie and best scum award respectively ;-)

So this is the era of f.ds that still lingers in my head

Also, there was an amazing f.ds mafia meetup in Berlin in 08/2017 with Space, LaLight, Gkrieg, joseph, silver and me :-) I also visited LaLight in Moscow in 01/2019 so if I choose to play this one, be warned that there will be some kind ot undertone with me and LaLight talking

[LaLight]

I am actually considering to play this one! Not quite confident enough about my time constraints to in but definitely interested!

Hey everyone who still remembers me :-)

You considered my advice! Hi, friend

[WestCoastDidds]

To those that don’t know me, LaLight, Space and me all started in literally the same game — M85. We then proceeded to play basically every game for the next year or so until I dropped out in April 2017 :-) The three of us also did a pretty good job in the 2016 forum awards, winning most fun to play with, newbie and best scum award respectively ;-)

So this is the era of f.ds that still lingers in my head

Also, there was an amazing f.ds mafia meetup in Berlin in 08/2017 with Space, LaLight, Gkrieg, joseph, silver and me :-) I also visited LaLight in Moscow in 01/2019 so if I choose to play this one, be warned that there will be some kind ot undertone with me and LaLight talking

It would be lovely to meet you...and lots of the 2016 folks have been circling back.  So, come play!!

[mail-mi]

Set up post updated, and the setup has been finalized! This game will be ready to start very soon.

[mail-mi]

yams, you could message Galzria, 2.7, yuma, EFHW, Joseph, raptor, Joth, Glooble, popsofctown, PPS, Skip, and Eevee and probably get some traction....

Invitations sent!

[Swowl]

yams, you could message Galzria, 2.7, yuma, EFHW, Joseph, raptor, Joth, Glooble, popsofctown, PPS, Skip, and Eevee and probably get some traction....

Invitations sent!

idk how many of those lot are in school still, but if it is a bit of them it will probably take them a week - finals week for a lot of unis

[skip wooznum]

Tbh my main concern is the number of players. I'm worried the thread will just be huge and impossible to re-read, and I'll have too hard a time keeping track of everybody.

[skip wooznum]

Tbh my main concern is the number of players. I'm worried the thread will just be huge and impossible to re-read, and I'll have too hard a time keeping track of everybody.

Also, I sort of wanna play an open/semi-open setup for a change. One with lots of maths and stuff.

[mail-mi]

Tbh my main concern is the number of players. I'm worried the thread will just be huge and impossible to re-read, and I'll have too hard a time keeping track of everybody.

Also, I sort of wanna play an open/semi-open setup for a change. One with lots of maths and stuff.

Fun fact: this setup will be semi open.

[Swowl]

Tbh my main concern is the number of players. I'm worried the thread will just be huge and impossible to re-read, and I'll have too hard a time keeping track of everybody.

Also, I sort of wanna play an open/semi-open setup for a change. One with lots of maths and stuff.

also whenever I get up in the queue I gots the maths game coming for you

[Archetype]

Tbh my main concern is the number of players. I'm worried the thread will just be huge and impossible to re-read, and I'll have too hard a time keeping track of everybody.

This is my hesitancy as well, though the setup does look very cool.

[mail-mi]

Tbh my main concern is the number of players. I'm worried the thread will just be huge and impossible to re-read, and I'll have too hard a time keeping track of everybody.

This is my hesitancy as well, though the setup does look very cool.

That is a real concern, though I can promise the setup is going to be lots of fun. Just remember that one BM game where we had 23 players, and then think "oh this won't be that bad" lol

[jotheonah]

this looks really fun /in

[Calamitas]

To those that don’t know me, LaLight, Space and me all started in literally the same game — M85. We then proceeded to play basically every game for the next year or so until I dropped out in April 2017 :-) The three of us also did a pretty good job in the 2016 forum awards, winning most fun to play with, newbie and best scum award respectively ;-)

So this is the era of f.ds that still lingers in my head

Also, there was an amazing f.ds mafia meetup in Berlin in 08/2017 with Space, LaLight, Gkrieg, joseph, silver and me :-) I also visited LaLight in Moscow in 01/2019 so if I choose to play this one, be warned that there will be some kind ot undertone with me and LaLight talking

It would be lovely to meet you...and lots of the 2016 folks have been circling back.  So, come play!!

Sorry, have inned to Faust's game! 9 people seems more manageable

[EFHW]

/in

[Uncleeurope]

F/ine.

[WestCoastDidds]

c'mon, c'mon, c'mon!

[Galzria]

c'mon, c'mon, c'mon!

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft

[Galzria]

/in

[Greathallscout]

I LOVE THIS SERIES!!! /in

[mail-mi]

I LOVE THIS SERIES!!! /in

Welcome!

[Greathallscout]

I LOVE THIS SERIES!!! /in

Welcome!

Thank you so much! Long time lurker on these threads. Excited to get some mafia action.

[Dylan32]

I LOVE THIS SERIES!!! /in

Welcome!

Thank you so much! Long time lurker on these threads. Excited to get some mafia action.

Welcome to our little community! Hope you enjoy your stay

[skip wooznum]

What is that in the bottom-right-hand corner of your avatar??

[Awaclus]

What is that in the bottom-right-hand corner of your avatar??

I don't know, I've never seen it. Probably a fan card or something.

[skip wooznum]

What is that in the bottom-right-hand corner of your avatar??

I don't know, I've never seen it. Probably a fan card or something.

Hmmmm

Judging based solely on the art, it looks pretty weak, I think.

[Greathallscout]

What is that in the bottom-right-hand corner of your avatar??

I don't know, I've never seen it. Probably a fan card or something.

Hmmmm

Judging based solely on the art, it looks pretty weak, I think.

It's a draw combo...too overpowered they had to take them out of the game.

[mail-mi]

The second set-up post has been updated (and 6. has been added to the first). I strongly recommend that each player carefully read the second set-up post before the game begins.

[A Drowned Kernel]

/out

[Rhand]

Cayvie told me to come and play, so here I am
/in

[cayvie]

Hahaha rhaaaaaand welcome

[skip wooznum]

What happens if 2 people activate lightning rod on the same night?

[mail-mi]

What happens if 2 people activate lightning rod on the same night?

I need to discuss this with 2.7, but I'm thinking that the actions will be split evenly between the two (or three, four, etc.) Players.

[skip wooznum]

How does roleblocking interact with lightning rodding?

[mail-mi]

How does roleblocking interact with lightning rodding?

Lightning rod happens before roleblocking, so it wouldn't do anything.

I kinda think of roleblocking as stopping you from doing things to other people, while lightning rod is something you do to yourself (like you couldn't roleblock someone from activating their bulletproof, right?)

You get one more question, then you have to join the game before I answer any more. [/sarcasm]

[skip wooznum]

You get one more question

Scenario: Ashersky and Yuma are bus drivers. At night, ashersky bus drives mail-mi and scott pilgrim, and Yuma bus drives scott pilgrim and e. Mcmcsalot doctors mail-mi, and robz888 cops scott pilgrim.

Who gets doctored and who gets copped?

[mail-mi]

You get one more question

Scenario: Ashersky and Yuma are bus drivers. At night, ashersky bus drives mail-mi and scott pilgrim, and Yuma bus drives scott pilgrim and e. Mcmcsalot doctors mail-mi, and robz888 cops scott pilgrim.

Who gets doctored and who gets copped?

Well, here are the rules being imposed on the game because of the bus drivers:
Anything that would target Scott pilgrim instead targets mail-mi
Anything that would target mail-mi instead targets Scott pilgrim
Anything that would target Scott pilgrim instead targets e
Anything that would target e instead targets Scott pilgrim.

These rules can be combined to create:
Anything that would target mail-mi instead targets Scott pilgrim
Anything that would target e instead targets Scott pilgrim
Anything that would target Scott pilgrim instead targets mail-mi and e.

So in this scenario, Scott pilgrim gets doctored and Robz gets 2 results, one on mail-mi and one on e.

[mail-mi]

(also, ask whatever you want, I was joking .)

[faust]

How long does twilight last?

[faust]

Also, are all sphere costs in the game divisible by 5?

[mail-mi]

How long does twilight last?

Approximately 24 hours, to allow everyone the chance ro access the forums.

Also, are all sphere costs in the game divisible by 5?

All role power sphere costs are divisible by 5.

[cayvie]

gd stonewards are scum

[faust]

Are the spheres that we start the game with guaranteed to be infused?

[mail-mi]

Are the spheres that we start the game with guaranteed to be infused?

No, you will start with a certain number of infused and dun spheres. Each player will start with a different amount of both.

[Rhand]

gd stonewards are scum

Bondsmiths are even worse
(inb4 I roll town bondsmith)

[cayvie]

if you thieve, do you receive infused spheres or dun spheres?

[mail-mi]

if you thieve, do you receive infused spheres or dun spheres?

Those spheres would have been left out in the highstorm, so they will be infused.

[chairs]

/in

[mail-mi]

/in

Chairs! Holy crap, everyone's coming back.

Now we just need Robz and mcmc to take the last two spots...

[Swowl]

/in

Chairs! Holy crap, everyone's coming back.

Now we just need Robz and mcmc to take the last two spots...

Chairs!

[mail-mi]

The PMs/QTs are all written up, just need 2 more people and this can start right away!

[skip wooznum]

Which is faster, rolestopper or bus driver?

[skip wooznum]

gd stonewards are scum

Bondsmiths are even worse
(inb4 I roll town bondsmith)

Don't forget those dustbringers. There isn't anything much scummier than a ninja vig.

[skip wooznum]

gd stonewards are scum

Bondsmiths are even worse
(inb4 I roll town bondsmith)

Don't forget those dustbringers. There isn't anything much scummier than a ninja vig.

Well, but I guess a governor strongman-izer roleblocker might be one of the things that is.

[mail-mi]

Which is faster, rolestopper or bus driver?

Redirection happens before roleblocking.

[skip wooznum]

Which is faster, rolestopper or bus driver?

Redirection happens before roleblocking.

Wait, redirection is always first, or only when there is a conflict?

If a blocks b, and b bus drives c and d, a is successful and b is unsuccessful, correct?

[mail-mi]

Which is faster, rolestopper or bus driver?

Redirection happens before roleblocking.

Wait, redirection is always first, or only when there is a conflict?

If a blocks b, and b bus drives c and d, a is successful and b is unsuccessful, correct?

Yes, that's true. So redirection happens first iff there is a conflict.

[mail-mi]

Also, 7. added to the setup post.

[Glooble]

Zero familiarity with the source material, but I’ll /in so we can get started.

[Glooble]

Ok I just read the setup and this looks insane, in a good way.

[mail-mi]

Paging ashersky for a hammer...

[WestCoastDidds]

Skip has asked all these questions....but isn’t in??

[chairs]

Skip, what are you DOIN

[skip wooznum]

I might have a thing coming up in the near future that would make it impossible for me to play, so I don't want to commit until I get that sorted out.

It should be noted that in general, I have very little internet availability, so I can almost never play mafia here. That's why I've been away for so long. It's only due to the quarantine that I was able to play the last couple of games.

[Jimmmmm]

/in if Less Pressure on LynchPool fills without me.

[mail-mi]

/in if Less Pressure on LynchPool fills without me.

I'll plan on starting tomorrow morning (12 hours from now), if that's alright with you?

[Jimmmmm]

Any time is fine by me as long as LP fills.

[Swowl]

signed up for LP, lfg lol

[cayvie]

oh hell yeah gimme them orbs time for a mana tornado or w/e

[cayvie]

also, Rhand, scolapasta, might be a good time to sign the /pledge if you haven't already (sorry if you have already scola, i know you've played a few games w/ no issues, just didn't see your name there)

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0

[Galzria]

Guess it’s time for me to read the setup 😁

[WestCoastDidds]

Guess it’s time for me to read the setup 😁

Oh good, because then I’ll need you to explain it to me.

[faust]

Which is faster, rolestopper or bus driver?

Redirection happens before roleblocking.

Wait, redirection is always first, or only when there is a conflict?

If a blocks b, and b bus drives c and d, a is successful and b is unsuccessful, correct?

Yes, that's true. So redirection happens first iff there is a conflict.

Following up on this, do you maybe want to give a complete resolution order for all the known role powers?

[mail-mi]

Which is faster, rolestopper or bus driver?

Redirection happens before roleblocking.

Wait, redirection is always first, or only when there is a conflict?

If a blocks b, and b bus drives c and d, a is successful and b is unsuccessful, correct?

Yes, that's true. So redirection happens first iff there is a conflict.

Following up on this, do you maybe want to give a complete resolution order for all the known role powers?

I posted one in the first Setup post.

PMs will be sent out momentarily.

[mail-mi]

PMs are going out now! Each player will have a role QT. Once you have read your role, please /confirm in your role QT. Night 0 will start after the last player has confirmed and will last 24 hours.

Thread locked except for tags.

[mail-mi]

All PMs have been sent.

[mail-mi]

Awaiting 4 more confirmations.

[mail-mi]

Just awaiting 1 more confirmation

[mail-mi]

All confirmations received. Night 0 starts now and ends at 3:00pm FT June 5, 2020.

[mail-mi]

In an outpost near the Shattered Plains, somewhere in the Unclaimed hills, Highprince Mail, of House Mi, awoke to a scream. Until they could find Urithiru, this decrepit place was the headquarters for the budding Knights Radiant. Mail-mi was still searching the continent for people beginning to show signs of Radiance, sending messengers out to Herdaz, Jah Keved, and even far-off Shinovar, but so far only a few men and women from Alethkar had shown the signs. This place, which had been a dueling ground before mail-mi appropriated it, was now the training grounds for humanity’s only hope.

Hair disheveled and not bothering to change from his nightclothes, mail-mi stumbled out of his much-too-small stone shelter into the morning sunlight. Mishim, the third moon, had set only a half hour ago. A small crowd of Knights had gathered in the middle of the shelters. “What is going--” mail-mi started, but then he saw the body.

2.71828..... lay in on the stony ground, blood spurting from the gash in his throat. He was still spasming, somehow still alive.

“Storms!” mail-mi shouted. “That’s my brother! Is anyone here an Edgedancer or Truthwatcher? Get some Stormlight, we need to heal--”

2.71828..... spasmed again, then his eyes opened wide, and he spoke in a harsh but clear voice. “Traitors, among us! The Shard of Passion and Hate touches the Knights Radiant! Oh, let him have mercy! Let him have mercy!” Then, after a final twitch of limbs, his head rolled to the side, his light violet eyes glazed over.

None said a word. Everyone knew that Death Rattles always spoke truth. The Shard of Passion and Hate... mail-mi thought, Odium.

Mail-mi summoned his Shardblade, bringing the attention of everyone in the crowd. “You heard what the man said,” mail-mi said in a deep, cold voice. “There are traitors among us. No one leaves until they are found and killed. No one.”

Day 1 starts now!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (18): Dylan32, LaLight, faust, MiX, hypercube, scolapasta, WestCoastDidds, Swowl, Rhand, cayvie,  jotheonah, EFHW, Uncleeurope, Galzria, GreatHallScout, chairs, Glooble, Jimmmmm

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 lasts until 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

Thread unlocked!

[Glooble]

First?

[Glooble]

18 person game ya'll. This is going to be wild.

Also, I feel like the setup post heavily implies at least one third party without actually saying it. Did anyone else get that sense?

[Greathallscout]

18 person game ya'll. This is going to be wild.

Also, I feel like the setup post heavily implies at least one third party without actually saying it. Did anyone else get that sense?

 Second? Totally agree with you with the third party implications

[Dylan32]

Man, I thought I had a shot at being first, and now I'm not even 2nd...  I think my assumption with a game this big is that there is probably 3rd party regardless of setup posts, I mean come on 18 people is massive!

[Glooble]

SO many new people!

New to me anyway.

[Dylan32]

Almost forgot to continue my new habit of opening with Vote: LaLight.

[MiX]

18 person game ya'll. This is going to be wild.

Also, I feel like the setup post heavily implies at least one third party without actually saying it. Did anyone else get that sense?

Setup Information

1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Knights_Radiant).

As a reminder, both town and mafia will have Knights Radiant.

This heavily implies there's at least 1 non-Knight third-party.

SO many new people!

New to me anyway.

So true. Hey hypercube! Hey GreatHallScout! Welcome back chairs! Hey

Vote: Rhand

[Glooble]

I'm gonna start with vote: Jimmmmmm

No reason.

[MiX]

This is actually one heck of a line up. 18 player games take me back...

Let's start with solving

Vote: scolapasta, I think this is the best vote.

[Galzria]

MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?

[MiX]

MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?

It's not drunk blitz and you're not the IC.

[Uncleeurope]

A wiry looking individual made his way to the center of the crowd. He wore a rather colorful ensemble and carried a lyre in one hand.

Upon reach a location the man deemed to be worthy, he raised his instrument and began to play.

"I have a secret that I must tell thee:
I know nothing of this story,
So I’ll make it up, as I go along,
And I’ll do it in glorious song!"

A string snapped with an unsettling “TWANG.” And with hardly a falter, the man reached behind him and pulled a lute out of his satchel and began to play anew.

"I’ll speak my humble name, if it please ye,
(Or the name that my mother doth gave me)
Is one and the same as Grand Duke Nuvall,
Because his name (that is my name) is Paul.

"Oh, My trade is that of a lowly knave,
And this path of mine seeks not to be brave,
While poverty I am naught to savor,
Worry I not, I have the King’s favor."

And with these final lines still echoing in the air, the little man gave a bow so deep his colorful hat greeted the ground.

He then drew himself up and returned to the outskirts of the group.

[Dylan32]

I'm gonna start with vote: Jimmmmmm

No reason.

There's never "no" reason. Maybe no rational reason or game related reason, but there was a reason haha. So how did you select Jimmmmm out of the 17 options available? Die roll, random number, thought that many trailing 'm's was annoying?

[MiX]

Vote: Eddie

[MiX]

Almost forgot to continue my new habit of opening with Vote: LaLight.

Can I ask why? I forgot.

[Dylan32]

Almost forgot to continue my new habit of opening with Vote: LaLight.

Can I ask why? I forgot.

I've just done it all 3 games since I came back from my pretty long break. First game was a win, 2nd is still pending, so I still haven't lost when starting this way (unless I did in my old games that I've forgotten). Superstition is fun, if ultimately pointless.

[MiX]

I see. That's a good reason I guess.

[Dylan32]

I see. That's a good reason I guess.

He's also the only person that I met on f.ds with whom I've communicated through non-dominion related channels, as I tried DMing a game of Pathfinder for him back in the day, although timezones and college kind of kept that from happening beyond the first session or two for schedule reasons. So that's probably why I picked him in that first game.

[Glooble]

I'm gonna start with vote: Jimmmmmm

No reason.

There's never "no" reason. Maybe no rational reason or game related reason, but there was a reason haha. So how did you select Jimmmmm out of the 17 options available? Die roll, random number, thought that many trailing 'm's was annoying?

Good question. Wish I had an answer. I just looked at the list, thought "who should I vote for?" and some little voice at the back of my head said "Jimmmmmm".

[Dylan32]

I'm gonna start with vote: Jimmmmmm

No reason.

There's never "no" reason. Maybe no rational reason or game related reason, but there was a reason haha. So how did you select Jimmmmm out of the 17 options available? Die roll, random number, thought that many trailing 'm's was annoying?

Good question. Wish I had an answer. I just looked at the list, thought "who should I vote for?" and some little voice at the back of my head said "Jimmmmmm".

Well, I guess this tells me one thing. It probably wasn't Jimmmmm's voice in the back of your head.

[Greathallscout]

I'm gonna start with vote: Jimmmmmm

No reason.

There's never "no" reason. Maybe no rational reason or game related reason, but there was a reason haha. So how did you select Jimmmmm out of the 17 options available? Die roll, random number, thought that many trailing 'm's was annoying?

Are you a determinist? I think people who believe in libertarian free will might diasagree with this...

[scolapasta]

Hi all.

So the one gave that I did RVS, I was accused of being scum, and then NKed as a VT.

scolapasta chooses not to engage in this behavior again.

(also, I still need to reread the setup and understand all that is going on - this is definitely the most complex of the games I've been in)

[Greathallscout]

18 person game ya'll. This is going to be wild.

Also, I feel like the setup post heavily implies at least one third party without actually saying it. Did anyone else get that sense?

Also, knowing the theme, I have some ideas as to the flavor of the third party but not sure if it is relevant to their win conditions or abilities.

[Greathallscout]

So true. Hey hypercube! Hey GreatHallScout! Welcome back chairs! Hey

Hey! thanks for the warmth! Really excited to play. i feel like I know some of you from reading other games even though I have never played on f.ds.

[Glooble]

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

[MiX]

Hi all.

So the one gave that I did RVS, I was accused of being scum, and then NKed as a VT.

scolapasta chooses not to engage in this behavior again.

(also, I still need to reread the setup and understand all that is going on - this is definitely the most complex of the games I've been in)

Don't talk about ongoing games.

Besides, have you ever caught scum D1? You'll never know the thrill until you do, it's amazing. And it all starts with RVS!

18 person game ya'll. This is going to be wild.

Also, I feel like the setup post heavily implies at least one third party without actually saying it. Did anyone else get that sense?

Also, knowing the theme, I have some ideas as to the flavor of the third party but not sure if it is relevant to their win conditions or abilities.

This feels anti-town, but knowing who knows the setup is pro-town I think. I read a lot of the wiki; it's pretty confusing, but I think I have a better understanding of the flavor because of it.

So true. Hey hypercube! Hey GreatHallScout! Welcome back chairs! Hey

Hey! thanks for the warmth! Really excited to play. i feel like I know some of you from reading other games even though I have never played on f.ds.

Hehe I felt that way too when I first played. Fun, isn't it, to think you know people and they don't know you? It's also weird that they also look very differently when talking to you in real time. At least that's how I think I felt.

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

Nah. Although I like the claim.

[cayvie]

Hi all.

So the one gave that I did RVS, I was accused of being scum, and then NKed as a VT.

scolapasta chooses not to engage in this behavior again.

(also, I still need to reread the setup and understand all that is going on - this is definitely the most complex of the games I've been in)

sounds like scum to me!

vote: scolapasta

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

wait, also sounds like scum to me!

unvote, vote: Glooble

[MiX]

Vote: cayvie, not moving.

[cayvie]

Vote: cayvie, not moving.

MiX, consider moving.

[MiX]

Vote: cayvie, not moving.

MiX, consider moving.

I will.

[cayvie]

Vote: cayvie, not moving.

MiX, consider moving.

I will.

nice!

did Glooble's post not ping you at all?

[MiX]

None of them moved me at all.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi hi hi hi!!!

It’s been too long since I’ve seen some you!

Hypercube!! How are you? Chairs! You’ve been missed!

Scout, Rhand...nice to meet you!

[Greathallscout]

Should we all claim our houses before the first highstorm comes? I think we should have the information out there.

[Rhand]

Nice to meet you too
I hope you’re all as fun to play with as

vote Cayvie

[Rhand]

Oh forgot to get an avatar. I will get one tomorrow, we have company tonight.

[Greathallscout]

Same! you doorknobthian, you!

[Glooble]

Should we all claim our houses before the first highstorm comes? I think we should have the information out there.

I'm not immediately seeing the benefit of this.

[Greathallscout]

Same! you doorknobthian, you!

I hope to get the quoting thing down

[Uncleeurope]

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

Nah. Although I like the claim.

Instrumentation seemed to envelop the room, and a voice rang out once more.

"Although Jester I may be,
'Tis Living that pleases me.
And though I would scarce say truth,
Were I, myself, as you sleuth,
I'm sure you can learn to trust,
That all that I will say is just."

The little man coughed once, then proceeded to speak.

"I will answer to 'Eddie' as it pleases you all, there is hardly a need to call me Paul.
I go by many names, and am known by many faces, but in none of my forms am I tall."

[cayvie]

None of them moved me at all.

i don't like Glooble's perspective of "hey, what does everyone think about this?" instead of expressing his own opinion.

[Greathallscout]

Should we all claim our houses before the first highstorm comes? I think we should have the information out there.

I'm not immediately seeing the benefit of this.

Well is there a down-side to not have the info? Also, I'm guessing mafia is dispersed somewhat equally among the houses. Even to know how many houses there are might help finding out how many mafia there are.

[cayvie]

Should we all claim our houses before the first highstorm comes? I think we should have the information out there.

I'm not immediately seeing the benefit of this.

Well is there a down-side to not have the info? Also, I'm guessing mafia is dispersed somewhat equally among the houses. Even to know how many houses there are might help finding out how many mafia there are.

have you read Mafia IX? check Voltgloss in that game

[cayvie]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

[Glooble]

None of them moved me at all.

i don't like Glooble's perspective of "hey, what does everyone think about this?" instead of expressing his own opinion.

Curious if you think that's scummy behavior in general or scummy behavior coming from me specifically.

[cayvie]

None of them moved me at all.

i don't like Glooble's perspective of "hey, what does everyone think about this?" instead of expressing his own opinion.

Curious if you think that's scummy behavior in general or scummy behavior coming from me specifically.

in general. honestly possible that it is less scummy from you specifically, but gotta start somewhere.

[MiX]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

Look at M125 for a poker-themed game that, although town didn't know, they wanted to hit the same suit as themselves to get more shots. It goes both ways.

Although I think houses are different in that people don't know who's in which house when it opens (that's what it looks like) and thus people can hide and not talk in there...?

Is it revealed at the start of a highstorm to each individual player who else is in their House?

[MiX]

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

Nah. Although I like the claim.

Instrumentation seemed to envelop the room, and a voice rang out once more.

"Although Jester I may be,
'Tis Living that pleases me.
And though I would scarce say truth,
Were I, myself, as you sleuth,
I'm sure you can learn to trust,
That all that I will say is just."

The little man coughed once, then proceeded to speak.

"I will answer to 'Eddie' as it pleases you all, there is hardly a need to call me Paul.
I go by many names, and am known by many faces, but in none of my forms am I tall."

Oh I don't think you claimed Jester, if that's what you mean here. I think you just claimed not-town.

[mail-mi]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

Look at M125 for a poker-themed game that, although town didn't know, they wanted to hit the same suit as themselves to get more shots. It goes both ways.

Although I think houses are different in that people don't know who's in which house when it opens (that's what it looks like) and thus people can hide and not talk in there...?

Is it revealed at the start of a highstorm to each individual player who else is in their House?

No.

[Greathallscout]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

I see benefits in claiming as i have stated and i think there are more. Is the possibility of that type of setup worth the loss of other information?

[Glooble]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

I see benefits in claiming as i have stated and i think there are more. Is the possibility of that type of setup worth the loss of other information?

I'm not sure I agree with your premise. I doubt the scum are evenly distributed among all houses.

[Greathallscout]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

Look at M125 for a poker-themed game that, although town didn't know, they wanted to hit the same suit as themselves to get more shots. It goes both ways.

Although I think houses are different in that people don't know who's in which house when it opens (that's what it looks like) and thus people can hide and not talk in there...?

Is it revealed at the start of a highstorm to each individual player who else is in their House?

No.

hmmm. I don't think mafia would be quiet if the town players tell the other members to talk because then we can catch mafia easily...I would guess each house has the same amount of people.

[MiX]

Thanks mail-mi!

Ok then we should House claim. Sebarial. Scum will know houses eventually anyway so it can't harm us that much.

PPE 2: Where in Greathall (I'm not calling you scout)'s post does it suggest he (is it he?) thinks scum are evenly distributed among houses?

[MiX]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

Look at M125 for a poker-themed game that, although town didn't know, they wanted to hit the same suit as themselves to get more shots. It goes both ways.

Although I think houses are different in that people don't know who's in which house when it opens (that's what it looks like) and thus people can hide and not talk in there...?

Is it revealed at the start of a highstorm to each individual player who else is in their House?

No.

hmmm. I don't think mafia would be quiet if the town players tell the other members to talk because then we can catch mafia easily...I would guess each house has the same amount of people.

You made the first sentence while knowing the second one...? If the houses aren't evenly distributed with people, scum can easily hide.

[Greathallscout]

the tldr version: in a Tarot-themed game, he encouraged players to claim Suits, and it turned out he was a serial killer who got stronger by killing members of one particular Suit.

Look at M125 for a poker-themed game that, although town didn't know, they wanted to hit the same suit as themselves to get more shots. It goes both ways.

Although I think houses are different in that people don't know who's in which house when it opens (that's what it looks like) and thus people can hide and not talk in there...?

Is it revealed at the start of a highstorm to each individual player who else is in their House?

No.

hmmm. I don't think mafia would be quiet if the town players tell the other members to talk because then we can catch mafia easily...I would guess each house has the same amount of people.

You made the first sentence while knowing the second one...? If the houses aren't evenly distributed with people, scum can easily hide.

yes

[WestCoastDidds]

Same! you doorknobthian, you!

I hope to get the quoting thing down

You’ll get it!

And I have to say “doorknobthians” is one of the funniest things I ever read. Eddie is straight up hilarious. Good choice of a charming anecdote. And wow...hell of a game to have read. It was crazy town.

[MiX]

I think houses of 3 or 6 people are pretty meh with the thieving system, and thus I think there's more of 4 and 5s, which leads me to believe they aren't all the same.

Besides, how could we know?

[mail-mi]

"The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather... we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes."

—Collected on Shashahes 1171, 31 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed pregnant woman of middle years. The child did not survive.

Vote Count 1.1

LaLight (1): Dylan32
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble
Glooble (1): cayvie
cayvie (2): MiX, Rhand

Not Voting (13): LaLight, faust, hypercube, scolapasta, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,  jotheonah, EFHW, Uncleeurope, Galzria, GreatHallScout, chairs, Jimmmmm

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 lasts until 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

[MiX]

Actually not talking in houses is incredibly difficult and thus claiming them is meh. Sometimes it's useful, but usually I think it's not.

So...I think we shouldn't do it as it would just clutter. Mine's out there I don't think a single one matters that much.

[Dylan32]

It wouldn't be that easy to hide, because we just have everyone claim who talked in their house, and the people who aren't backed up were hiding. If scum tries to back each other up, then they would have to fake being in a house on their own, thereby linking them all together.

[Greathallscout]

Actually not talking in houses is incredibly difficult and thus claiming them is meh. Sometimes it's useful, but usually I think it's not.

So...I think we shouldn't do it as it would just clutter. Mine's out there I don't think a single one matters that much.

It will clutter in the future regardless?

[Glooble]

Should we all claim our houses before the first highstorm comes? I think we should have the information out there.

I'm not immediately seeing the benefit of this.

Well is there a down-side to not have the info? Also, I'm guessing mafia is dispersed somewhat equally among the houses. Even to know how many houses there are might help finding out how many mafia there are.

[Glooble]

Sorry, that was meant to be in response to MiX's question.

[Dylan32]

It wouldn't be that easy to hide, because we just have everyone claim who talked in their house, and the people who aren't backed up were hiding. If scum tries to back each other up, then they would have to fake being in a house on their own, thereby linking them all together.

I don't know if that was clear. Say there are 4 people in a house, 1 of them is scum and tries to hide by not talking. The other 3 would back up each other's claims to be in that house, but if the person hiding tries to claim the house, they will out them as either just missing the chance to post, or lying or hiding. If that person tries to fake claim a non-existent house, either A) flavor will reveal the lie  (i.e. "My Hogwarts house is Braveheart.") or B) Other scum would have to also claim that made up house in order to cover the lie.

So I don't think that's something we should claim yet, although we should all plan on at least posting once during the highstorm so that no one can claim that they just didn't want to post there and it can be verified who is in what house later.

ppe 3

[jotheonah]

18 people is way too many people and I never know how to play these Day 1s. Also HI.

Bold suggestion you are all going to hate, but I have to put it out there anyway: We No Lynch Day 1.

Why? Two reasons.

1) There's an even number of us so we're going to have to do it eventually.
2) Everybody has approximately 1 million powers so we're likely to learn a lot in the night.

[MiX]

Actually not talking in houses is incredibly difficult and thus claiming them is meh. Sometimes it's useful, but usually I think it's not.

So...I think we shouldn't do it as it would just clutter. Mine's out there I don't think a single one matters that much.

It will clutter in the future regardless?

I mean clutter D1. Yes things that are useful for scumhunting will clutter when they're not immediately useful.

18 people is way too many people and I never know how to play these Day 1s. Also HI.

Bold suggestion you are all going to hate, but I have to put it out there anyway: We No Lynch Day 1.

Why? Two reasons.

1) There's an even number of us so we're going to have to do it eventually.
2) Everybody has approximately 1 million powers so we're likely to learn a lot in the night.

Which is why lynching is safe because we can't kill That One PR. Lynching means we have way better targets anyway, and scum get to feel pressured which is always fun.

[WestCoastDidds]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

[MiX]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

He's making the game excellent while claiming. I think his claim's scummy.

[Dylan32]

18 people is way too many people and I never know how to play these Day 1s. Also HI.

Bold suggestion you are all going to hate, but I have to put it out there anyway: We No Lynch Day 1.

Why? Two reasons.

1) There's an even number of us so we're going to have to do it eventually.
2) Everybody has approximately 1 million powers so we're likely to learn a lot in the night.

Reason 2) not terrible.
Reason 1) This assumes only one killing role exists, which in a game this big has a decent likelihood of not being true.

[hypercube]

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

[jotheonah]

18 people is way too many people and I never know how to play these Day 1s. Also HI.

Bold suggestion you are all going to hate, but I have to put it out there anyway: We No Lynch Day 1.

Why? Two reasons.

1) There's an even number of us so we're going to have to do it eventually.
2) Everybody has approximately 1 million powers so we're likely to learn a lot in the night.

Reason 2) not terrible.
Reason 1) This assumes only one killing role exists, which in a game this big has a decent likelihood of not being true.

Fair point.

[Dylan32]

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

In what way am I PR hunting? I literally was saying the same thing you did in that last line.

[WestCoastDidds]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

He's making the game excellent while claiming. I think his claim's scummy.

The claim is that he’s third party?

[WestCoastDidds]

Another question, Mix, would you trust him?

[hypercube]

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

In what way am I PR hunting? I literally was saying the same thing you did in that last line.

If someone decides it's important to preserve their spheres from theft, not talking in the house QT is one way to do that.

[Dylan32]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

He's making the game excellent while claiming. I think his claim's scummy.

The claim is that he’s third party?

Which most of the time is anti-town (or could at least flip that direction later), and so is inherently more lynchable than null.

[MiX]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

He's making the game excellent while claiming. I think his claim's scummy.

The claim is that he’s third party?

That wasn't exactly what I picked up from him, but could be, sure.

PPE: Why did you answer?

[Uncleeurope]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

He's making the game excellent while claiming. I think his claim's scummy.

"My curiosity piqued, I must press further. What doest thou believe me to have claimed?

"As a general statement to all that are present in this game, in a crowd of this size it can be easy to forget to take some Quiet Time for yourself. I urge you all to regularly take such Quiet Times, in the event that information could be gleaned while in them."

[Dylan32]

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

In what way am I PR hunting? I literally was saying the same thing you did in that last line.

If someone decides it's important to preserve their spheres from theft, not talking in the house QT is one way to do that.

I mean, if someone chooses to recharge their sphere's during a highstorm, they could be stolen regardless of whether or not they talk in the house just by being in that house.

[MiX]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

He's making the game excellent while claiming. I think his claim's scummy.

"My curiosity piqued, I must press further. What doest thou believe me to have claimed?

"As a general statement to all that are present in this game, in a crowd of this size it can be easy to forget to take some Quiet Time for yourself. I urge you all to regularly take such Quiet Times, in the event that information could be gleaned while in them."

I won't answer, in case I'm right.

[hypercube]

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

In what way am I PR hunting? I literally was saying the same thing you did in that last line.

If someone decides it's important to preserve their spheres from theft, not talking in the house QT is one way to do that.

I mean, if someone chooses to recharge their sphere's during a highstorm, they could be stolen regardless of whether or not they talk in the house just by being in that house.

If they don't talk in the house, you don't know you can steal from them.

[MiX]

Nevermind, my theory's wrong.

Uncle's fun null, which means he's null.

[WestCoastDidds]

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

He's making the game excellent while claiming. I think his claim's scummy.

"My curiosity piqued, I must press further. What doest thou believe me to have claimed?

"As a general statement to all that are present in this game, in a crowd of this size it can be easy to forget to take some Quiet Time for yourself. I urge you all to regularly take such Quiet Times, in the event that information could be gleaned while in them."

How many naps are you having?

[Dylan32]

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

[Dylan32]

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

In what way am I PR hunting? I literally was saying the same thing you did in that last line.

If someone decides it's important to preserve their spheres from theft, not talking in the house QT is one way to do that.

I mean, if someone chooses to recharge their sphere's during a highstorm, they could be stolen regardless of whether or not they talk in the house just by being in that house.

If they don't talk in the house, you don't know you can steal from them.

It wasn't my understanding that you have to target a specific person. I think it's just if anyone left some out and you decide to steal, you take whatever was out (or a portion of it, I don't remember).

[MiX]

5. Thieving: Each player has the chance to steal other players' spheres that they left out during a highstorm. Players can only steal from members of their same House. To attempt to steal, a player posts Steal from PlayerY in their personal QT during a highstorm. If only 1 person steals from PlayerX, they will receive half of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm. If two players steal from PlayerX, each player will receive one third of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm, and etc.

Someone didn't read the setup.

Vote: Dylan

[MiX]

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

[Dylan32]

5. Thieving: Each player has the chance to steal other players' spheres that they left out during a highstorm. Players can only steal from members of their same House. To attempt to steal, a player posts Steal from PlayerY in their personal QT during a highstorm. If only 1 person steals from PlayerX, they will receive half of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm. If two players steal from PlayerX, each player will receive one third of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm, and etc.

Someone didn't read the setup.

Vote: Dylan

That's NAI from me, and also I did, but it was back when I first /in'd to the game. Good luck remembering every detail of the setup for that long.

ppe 1

[MiX]

5. Thieving: Each player has the chance to steal other players' spheres that they left out during a highstorm. Players can only steal from members of their same House. To attempt to steal, a player posts Steal from PlayerY in their personal QT during a highstorm. If only 1 person steals from PlayerX, they will receive half of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm. If two players steal from PlayerX, each player will receive one third of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm, and etc.

Someone didn't read the setup.

Vote: Dylan

That's NAI from me, and also I did, but it was back when I first /in'd to the game. Good luck remembering every detail of the setup for that long.

ppe 1

Not reading the setup when the last person /ins

[Dylan32]

5. Thieving: Each player has the chance to steal other players' spheres that they left out during a highstorm. Players can only steal from members of their same House. To attempt to steal, a player posts Steal from PlayerY in their personal QT during a highstorm. If only 1 person steals from PlayerX, they will receive half of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm. If two players steal from PlayerX, each player will receive one third of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm, and etc.

Someone didn't read the setup.

Vote: Dylan

That's NAI from me, and also I did, but it was back when I first /in'd to the game. Good luck remembering every detail of the setup for that long.

ppe 1

Not reading the setup when the last person /ins

I never said I was good at this lol.

[jotheonah]

Seems like a design flaw, since the optimal play now is for none of us to ever talk in the House Qts, which is super boring.

[WestCoastDidds]

Seems like a design flaw, since the optimal play now is for none of us to ever talk in the House Qts, which is super boring.

Ha! You know you can count on me to talk....I’d literally be incapable of not finding out how everyone is doing.

[Uncleeurope]

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

[mail-mi]

Seems like a design flaw, since the optimal play now is for none of us to ever talk in the House Qts, which is super boring.

I realized this as well, and to amend that, at the start of the first highstorm, a list of each player in the House will be posted in each House QT.

I apologize for the design error and hope this will correct it.

[hypercube]

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

[Uncleeurope]

Seems like a design flaw, since the optimal play now is for none of us to ever talk in the House Qts, which is super boring.

“I have found myself in a similar situation to our Lady Didds. A man of my trade has little patience for a silent room.”

[Uncleeurope]

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

The small man who called himself Paul stared quizzically at the overly active polyhedral.

"I must say, this leap in logic is one that I find most comical, and in many ways warrants action on my part."

He strummed his lute once and let the tone fade to nothingness before saying in a clear voice: Vote: Hypercube

[WestCoastDidds]

Seems like a design flaw, since the optimal play now is for none of us to ever talk in the House Qts, which is super boring.

“I have found myself in a similar situation to our Lady Didds. A man of my trade has little patience for a silent room.”

So impatient!

[hypercube]

"I must say, this leap in logic is one that I find most comical, and in many ways warrants action on my part."

Which ways are those?

[Uncleeurope]

"I must say, this leap in logic is one that I find most comical, and in many ways warrants action on my part."

Which ways are those?

The man's lute sprang to action, followed closely by his voice. (To the tune of "Oh Christmas Tree")

"Oh, Hypercube, Oh Hypercube,
How faulty is thy logic
'Tis not like me, to be obscene,
To speak in ways, which you could glean,
Oh, Hypercube, Oh Hypercube,
Why would a CL do this?"

[MiX]

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Uuuuh, smooth? I don't think anyone would've made that connection lol.

Also, I must insert the name shraeye in this post, not sure how I'll do it but I think I found a good way.

[EFHW]

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

[MiX]

Seems like a design flaw, since the optimal play now is for none of us to ever talk in the House Qts, which is super boring.

I realized this as well, and to amend that, at the start of the first highstorm, a list of each player in the House will be posted in each House QT.

I apologize for the design error and hope this will correct it.

Joth IC, got it.

So joth, who are your mason buddies?

PPE: EFHW's in this game??

[hypercube]

"I must say, this leap in logic is one that I find most comical, and in many ways warrants action on my part."

Which ways are those?

The man's lute sprang to action, followed closely by his voice. (To the tune of "Oh Christmas Tree")

"Oh, Hypercube, Oh Hypercube,
How faulty is thy logic
'Tis not like me, to be obscene,
To speak in ways, which you could glean,
Oh, Hypercube, Oh Hypercube,
Why would a CL do this?"

Possibly because their wincon depends on people reading their QTs?

[EFHW]

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

[MiX]

That's a reach hyper. If Uncle desperately needed to say that he was doing stuff with people's QTs, he wouldn't had made it super clear to everyone.

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

The part where he thinks the only way to stop thieving is to kill everyone is towny.

[EFHW]

What is a CL?

[MiX]

What is a CL?

Cult Leader, from context.

[Dylan32]

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

What is a CL?

[Greathallscout]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

[EFHW]

That's a reach hyper. If Uncle desperately needed to say that he was doing stuff with people's QTs, he wouldn't had made it super clear to everyone.

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

The part where he thinks the only way to stop thieving is to kill everyone is towny.

It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.

PPE thanks

[MiX]

That's a reach hyper. If Uncle desperately needed to say that he was doing stuff with people's QTs, he wouldn't had made it super clear to everyone.

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

The part where he thinks the only way to stop thieving is to kill everyone is towny.

It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.

PPE thanks

Who would follow it? It's incredibly towny to steal and be stolen as long as everyone does it.

[Uncleeurope]

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

The little man gave an exaggerated act of embarrassment.

"It seems that my reputation hath extended its way into your mind. Although, I must say, many of those writings approach legend more-so than fact. Primarily because I have not read them, and am making no attempt to recreate the character depicted in them."

[EFHW]

I don't know if we are still in RVS, but I have to

vote: Eddie

for getting a  Christmas carol stuck in my head.

[Dylan32]

That's a reach hyper. If Uncle desperately needed to say that he was doing stuff with people's QTs, he wouldn't had made it super clear to everyone.

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

The part where he thinks the only way to stop thieving is to kill everyone is towny.

It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.

PPE thanks

Scum would have no problem breaking that pact, and town (in my mind) would be suspicious of the others in their house since there's no reason for there not to be at least 1 scum or non-town person in your house. The trust here could be scummy, rather, it's scummy enough for a D1 Vote: EFHW.

ppe 3

[Swowl]

jesus there is gonna be a lot of posts in this game.
hey all.

So rule change, what is the verdict now? Null on the House claiming as it will be published to the houses I assume?

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

Only reason I can think of is if skum has an ability that only works on certain houses. Although same logic would dictate that town could have abilities that only works on certain houses. But we don't know which, or if either... but I guess if it was one it would also be the other... so yeah. IDK - leaning against claiming anything Day 1 is my go to, but if someone has some other thoughts I am not hard set on it I guess.

[Swowl]

oh and obviously - Vote: Galz

[EFHW]

Not following you here.  I don't know how many people will be in each house, but if it's 2 or 3, I think my idea could work quite well. Or maybe you are thinking that keeping scum from infusing spheres is worth not infusing your own. I hadn't considered that because we all like using our prs so much.

[EFHW]

I don't see a reason to claim houses.

[EFHW]

My longer post was addressed at Dylan.  Trying to avoid wall posts.

[MiX]

It's best to know how many dun spheres someone's charging than not, and if everyone steals then you know who decided to break the pact.

[EFHW]

It's best to know how many dun spheres someone's charging than not, and if everyone steals then you know who decided to break the pact.

So you are suggesting stealing as a way to get info? You still won't know who else stole spheres that night, so you won't be able to calculate how many dun spheres someone has.

Oh, I know -- a stealing pact! Everyone agrees to steal.

[Dylan32]

Not following you here.  I don't know how many people will be in each house, but if it's 2 or 3, I think my idea could work quite well. Or maybe you are thinking that keeping scum from infusing spheres is worth not infusing your own. I hadn't considered that because we all like using our prs so much.

I just double checked, and unless I'm mistaken, the setup post is ambiguous as to whether stolen spheres are received infused or dun. There are obvious strategic implications depending on which it is.

[MiX]

It's best to know how many dun spheres someone's charging than not, and if everyone steals then you know who decided to break the pact.

So you are suggesting stealing as a way to get info? You still won't know who else stole spheres that night, so you won't be able to calculate how many dun spheres someone has.

Oh, I know -- a stealing pact! Everyone agrees to steal.

Yeah, that. That seems more pro-town than not stealing, although forced balancing's in theory bad I think it makes it harder for scum to steal.

Not following you here.  I don't know how many people will be in each house, but if it's 2 or 3, I think my idea could work quite well. Or maybe you are thinking that keeping scum from infusing spheres is worth not infusing your own. I hadn't considered that because we all like using our prs so much.

I just double checked, and unless I'm mistaken, the setup post is ambiguous as to whether stolen spheres are received infused or dun. There are obvious strategic implications depending on which it is.

They're recieved infused, as the flavor makes no sense otherwise.

[jotheonah]

After some consideration, I’ll support no lynch over a bad lynch day 1 but I think it’s very possible we’ll find a good lynch.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

[hypercube]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

[Dylan32]

It's best to know how many dun spheres someone's charging than not, and if everyone steals then you know who decided to break the pact.

So you are suggesting stealing as a way to get info? You still won't know who else stole spheres that night, so you won't be able to calculate how many dun spheres someone has.

Oh, I know -- a stealing pact! Everyone agrees to steal.

This is interesting, but possibly not ideal. If everyone in the house agrees to set out X dun spheres and steals from a target, then everyone in the house gets equal benefit, but it's far from ideal for most players. I suppose it would prevent scum from lying, because say the plan is to steal in a circle like A>B>C>...>A. If you gain more than the expected number, you know your target set out more than agreed. If you lose more, you know more than 1 person targeted you, and if you didn't lose any, you know the person targeting you didn't. Combine those different things and it would be easy enough to figure out exactly who didn't follow the plan.

ppe 3

[chairs]

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

[Dylan32]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

And MiX, I was thinking with flavor, if someone steals your spheres when you set them out, they are taking the spheres away before they are infused, because you would want to grab them asap after they are infused, and so it would depend on the timing of the steal. Also, I have no idea what the flavor is, never even heard of these books before this game, so any flavor related arguments beyond those spelled out in setup and QT will go over my head.

[MiX]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

And MiX, I was thinking with flavor, if someone steals your spheres when you set them out, they are taking the spheres away before they are infused, because you would want to grab them asap after they are infused, and so it would depend on the timing of the steal. Also, I have no idea what the flavor is, never even heard of these books before this game, so any flavor related arguments beyond those spelled out in setup and QT will go over my head.

You see, they're charged in the highstorm, so first you wait for them to be charged, and then you steal them.

Now we will go on a tangent on how and when to steal magical spheres during a magical storm when stored in a fictional location.

[jotheonah]

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

There it is. Took long enough. Vote: chairs

[MiX]

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

There it is. Took long enough. Vote: chairs

Vote: chairs

[cayvie]

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

EFHW are you scum again?

[cayvie]

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

There it is. Took long enough. Vote: chairs

Why chairs and not EFHW?

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

[cayvie]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

What's the benefit?

[Dylan32]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

And MiX, I was thinking with flavor, if someone steals your spheres when you set them out, they are taking the spheres away before they are infused, because you would want to grab them asap after they are infused, and so it would depend on the timing of the steal. Also, I have no idea what the flavor is, never even heard of these books before this game, so any flavor related arguments beyond those spelled out in setup and QT will go over my head.

You see, they're charged in the highstorm, so first you wait for them to be charged, and then you steal them.

Now we will go on a tangent on how and when to steal magical spheres during a magical storm when stored in a fictional location.

If this is an actual (fictional) thing that happens is the books, then you're probably right.

[cayvie]

Vote: EFHW

Mix are you 3p again?

[cayvie]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

What's the benefit?

To clarify my stance

In general, I am against mass claiming, as it reduces the agency of each individual, and most individuals are town.

[Greathallscout]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

What's the benefit?

To clarify my stance

In general, I am against mass claiming, as it reduces the agency of each individual, and most individuals are town.

I think it is likely the scum are equally distributed among the houses so it might help for scumhunting.

[cayvie]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

What's the benefit?

To clarify my stance

In general, I am against mass claiming, as it reduces the agency of each individual, and most individuals are town.

I think it is likely the scum are equally distributed among the houses so it might help for scumhunting.

Can you give me a concrete scenario in which this information would help, and in which it would be important to claim now instead of later?

[Greathallscout]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

Mix are you 3p again?

What do you mean again? Oh, wait, you were in the SK game.

No, I'm town this time around, why do you ask?

[cayvie]

Vote: EFHW

Mix are you 3p again?

What do you mean again? Oh, wait, you were in the SK game.

No, I'm town this time around, why do you ask?

Seems like you're playing to survive

[Greathallscout]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

What's the benefit?

To clarify my stance

In general, I am against mass claiming, as it reduces the agency of each individual, and most individuals are town.

I think it is likely the scum are equally distributed among the houses so it might help for scumhunting.

Can you give me a concrete scenario in which this information would help, and in which it would be important to claim now instead of later?

I guess simply that if i think 3 people in a house are towny and the 4th seems scummy it will make me more confident on a lynch.

[cayvie]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

What's the benefit?

To clarify my stance

In general, I am against mass claiming, as it reduces the agency of each individual, and most individuals are town.

I think it is likely the scum are equally distributed among the houses so it might help for scumhunting.

Can you give me a concrete scenario in which this information would help, and in which it would be important to claim now instead of later?

I guess simply that if i think 3 people in a house are towny and the 4th seems scummy it will make me more confident on a lynch.

I can see that coming up if there are two wagons you're split between joining

[Greathallscout]

So with the change in setup? is there a reason not get house info on the table now?

What's the benefit?

To clarify my stance

In general, I am against mass claiming, as it reduces the agency of each individual, and most individuals are town.

This "house" type of claiming doesn't seems to take away much.

[Glooble]

vote: chairs

Wagons are good. This joth-gambit feels townie.

[Glooble]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

[LaLight]

what the hell three pages. i will read tomorrow.

[Glooble]

what the hell three pages. i will read tomorrow.

By which time it will be 12 pages.

[LaLight]

what the hell three pages. i will read tomorrow.

By which time it will be 12 pages.

i will have 2 hours more or less

[Rhand]

vote MiX

Serious vote. Will explain tomorrow when I’m sober.
1:20 am now and preeettty drunk

[Jimmmmm]

Checking in. After all these years I finally changed my page size from 25 to 50. The game seems much more manageable now!

[Rhand]

The nested quotes on this forum are hard to digest

[WestCoastDidds]

vote MiX

Serious vote. Will explain tomorrow when I’m sober.
1:20 am now and preeettty drunk

Oh, Rhand! You’re our kind of people

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

Vote: chairs in honor of Shraeye

[MiX]

I think that means he's town.

[Greathallscout]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

[EFHW]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

Just to be clear, I wasn't serious!

[cayvie]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

I'll put it this way. I am not making any promises beforehand about any action I may take on a given night slash during a given Mana tornado.

[EFHW]

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

EFHW are you scum again?

No! Can't you tell?

[MiX]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

I'll put it this way. I am not making any promises beforehand about any action I may take on a given night slash during a given Mana tornado.

I also think each individual House should deal with that problem.

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

EFHW are you scum again?

No! Can't you tell?

How would we be able to tell before this post?

Who was I voting for? Cayvie? Hmm...

Vote: chairs

[EFHW]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

That is what I was thinking.

[EFHW]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

I don't see how joth has been towny. And I was thinking the same as MiX, that individual houses would sort out their own plans.

unvote b/c definitely not in RVS now.

[MiX]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

That is what I was thinking.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

[cayvie]

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

EFHW are you scum again?

No! Can't you tell?

I don't think I've ever played with town EFHW. What's the difference?

[MiX]

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

EFHW are you scum again?

No! Can't you tell?

I don't think I've ever played with town EFHW. What's the difference?

Being annoyed and wanting town to win.

But like, really annoyed. Really, REALLY annoyed. And emotions that are more than superficial.

I might be making some of these up, it has been a long time.

[cayvie]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

That is what I was thinking.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

I feel like mix is trolling me

Like he knows I got in him for a nightkill TMI in Ash's game

And now he's out here making TMI statements about how many powers the different factions have, and how much Mana they cost

[cayvie]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

That is what I was thinking.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

I feel like mix is trolling me

Like he knows I got in him for a nightkill TMI in Ash's game

And now he's out here making TMI statements about how many powers the different factions have, and how much Mana they cost

*Got on him

[cayvie]

And now he's answering for other players...

Mix I feel like you're planning to get wagoned today, survive the wagon, and then not get nightkilled because you feel you've been the right amount of obvscum.

But I don't know what alignment that makes you

[Galzria]

I want to vote MiX, but I’m not going to.

Instead, vote: Joth.

Chairs votes are bad votes.

[cayvie]

I want to vote MiX, but I’m not going to.

Instead, vote: Joth.

Chairs votes are bad votes.

Just the chairs vote? Or did you see something else?

[Galzria]

I want to vote MiX, but I’m not going to.

Instead, vote: Joth.

Chairs votes are bad votes.

Just the chairs vote? Or did you see something else?

Oh, I meant chairs votes in general.

Regarding Joth, the chairs vote is bad, yes, but so was the suggestion regarding no-lynch D1 in an 18 player game because “we’ll need to eventually anyway”. Even in a world where that’s true (which bars from existence any worlds where there are multiple kills at night, or even NO kills at night), it’s still best done in MyLo rather than D1.

Beyond those things though, there isn’t much. But that’s more than I have for almost anybody else right now.

[cayvie]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

[Dylan32]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

That is what I was thinking.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

What makes you think the factional abilities scum has would cost stormlight the same way the knight radiant powers do? And what "scum things" (emphasis on the plural "things") can scum do in addition to the factional kill and surge powers? Scumslip? Vote: MiX

[Dylan32]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

That is what I was thinking.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

What makes you think the factional abilities scum has would cost stormlight the same way the knight radiant powers do? And what "scum things" (emphasis on the plural "things") can scum do in addition to the factional kill and surge powers? Scumslip? Vote: MiX

[Dylan32]

Reread setup, answered the first question there.

[Swowl]

Reread setup, answered the first question there.

I am confused at your confusion? What am I missing here? Where did MiX suggest that skum can use kill + surge + something else?

[Dylan32]

Reread setup, answered the first question there.

I am confused at your confusion? What am I missing here? Where did MiX suggest that skum can use kill + surge + something else?

He said scum would use more stormlight because they can do town and scum things, plural. Outside of the factional kill, what other things would scum be able to do? Some of the surges certainly have powers which would be of benefit to scum, and so I don't know that it's a given that scum has additional "scum things" beyond the factional kill. If MiX knows something of these extra powers, he must be scum.

[Swowl]

Reread setup, answered the first question there.

I am confused at your confusion? What am I missing here? Where did MiX suggest that skum can use kill + surge + something else?

He said scum would use more stormlight because they can do town and scum things, plural. Outside of the factional kill, what other things would scum be able to do? Some of the surges certainly have powers which would be of benefit to scum, and so I don't know that it's a given that scum has additional "scum things" beyond the factional kill. If MiX knows something of these extra powers, he must be scum.

Well I mean it says in OP we can take 3 actions per night. I dunno if it is you or me that is missing something at this point. I actually agree with mix here.

Skum can take surge pool actions and whatever special power action shit like everyone else in the Knights Radiant... Town would try to only use towny actions. As you stated not all the powers are towny. Skum will use Skummy and Towny actions... therefore skum uses more than Town. Yeah?

[Galzria]

I don’t see why there’s an assumption that scum would do particularly townie things at night.

I agree with Dylan. MiX’s statement made assumptions. It’s why I have an itch to vote MiX. But town!MiX makes bad assumptions and statements often. So I’m restraining myself.

[Dylan32]

Reread setup, answered the first question there.

I am confused at your confusion? What am I missing here? Where did MiX suggest that skum can use kill + surge + something else?

He said scum would use more stormlight because they can do town and scum things, plural. Outside of the factional kill, what other things would scum be able to do? Some of the surges certainly have powers which would be of benefit to scum, and so I don't know that it's a given that scum has additional "scum things" beyond the factional kill. If MiX knows something of these extra powers, he must be scum.

Well I mean it says in OP we can take 3 actions per night. I dunno if it is you or me that is missing something at this point. I actually agree with mix here.

Skum can take surge pool actions and whatever special power action shit like everyone else in the Knights Radiant... Town would try to only use towny actions. As you stated not all the powers are towny. Skum will use Skummy and Towny actions... therefore skum uses more than Town. Yeah?

In the surges, it seems that the pairs of powers in each surge tend to have either one that's more town and one more scum, or both are neutral utility. You can choose one or the other, so both scum and town can use up to 3 abilities per night from their order. So I don't think scum is necessarily more likely to use more actions that town on average, unless of course the factional kill uses stormlight or something, which feels like an unlikely handicap on scum. It seems like both town and scum knights radiant have access to the two surges and their role power. I could be wrong, but I didn't get the impression from the setup post that the orders would be alignment indicative, and so I don't think the special order powers are inherently more likely to be used by scum or town.

[Swowl]

I don’t see why there’s an assumption that scum would do particularly townie things at night.

I agree with Dylan. MiX’s statement made assumptions. It’s why I have an itch to vote MiX. But town!MiX makes bad assumptions and statements often. So I’m restraining myself.

that's not what I said.. actually let me double check... nope I am right, not what I said.
I said "Town would try to only use towny actions. As you stated not all the powers are towny. Skum will use Skummy and Towny actions... therefore skum uses more than Town."

To be super clear...

One one end of it we have a class like this:
Surge: Gravitation
Orders that can access this Surge: Windrunners and Skybreakers
Role Powers:
Lightning Rod: Each night, you may spend 50 spheres of Stormlight to make yourself the center of gravity. Every action taken that night will be redirected to you.
Watcher: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to take to the skies and watch a player. You will be told who targeted that player that night, but not what actions they targeted them with.
--- As skum, you obviously will only use the "towny action" of watcher (unless I guess *insert crazy shit here*). Just cuz they use the towny action, doesn't make it towny. It just appears so. which is why they would do it.

In the middle you have something like this:
Surge: Transformation
Orders that can access this Surge: Lightweavers and Elsecallers
Role Powers:
Inventor: Each night, you may spend 10 spheres of Stormlight to create one of the following inventions and give it to another player (You may only give away 1 invention per night):
Spanreeds
Diminishing Painrial
Augmenting Painrial
Alerter
--- Only one choice yeah, but as skum if you rolled it, as we have seem a bazillion times before... it can be used to try to gain credit by being the one that gives someone something. Towny? Actually depending on what those things do, yeah it could even be classified as towny... even though again.. it is not intended to be that way.


On the other end we have something like:
Surge: Transportation
Orders that can access this Surge: Elsecallers and Willshapers
Role Powers:
Commuter: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to go into Shadesmar. Any actions that target you that night will fail.
Tracker: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to follow another player. You will be told which players that player targeted, but not what actions they took.

---- While commuter is null, it is for sure not skummy. And tracker is Towny. Same concept as watcher from above, they would use it even without needing to use it just to have the results for claim down the road.

To dylan's point - Mix's statement did in fact make assumptions. But they are correct. On top of everything above listed... skum also will have the ability to coordinate steals. So IDK, let;s just assume there is a standard team of skum 3 out there... as an example. Without them getting crazy unlucky, it would be really hard for them not to be able to come out positive on a recharge/steal situation right? So they have more to burn because their EV on recharging and stealing is way the hell higher than any given town player's is.


Summary - Skum will use both skummy powers, as well as any town powers they have access to that grant them town points, because they have a higher BP than any given isolated town player has, so their upside will be substantially increased.

actually another thought...

[Swowl]

I don’t see why there’s an assumption that scum would do particularly townie things at night.

I agree with Dylan. MiX’s statement made assumptions. It’s why I have an itch to vote MiX. But town!MiX makes bad assumptions and statements often. So I’m restraining myself.

that's not what I said.. actually let me double check... nope I am right, not what I said.
I said "Town would try to only use towny actions. As you stated not all the powers are towny. Skum will use Skummy and Towny actions... therefore skum uses more than Town."

To be super clear...

One one end of it we have a class like this:
Surge: Gravitation
Orders that can access this Surge: Windrunners and Skybreakers
Role Powers:
Lightning Rod: Each night, you may spend 50 spheres of Stormlight to make yourself the center of gravity. Every action taken that night will be redirected to you.
Watcher: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to take to the skies and watch a player. You will be told who targeted that player that night, but not what actions they targeted them with.
--- As skum, you obviously will only use the "towny action" of watcher (unless I guess *insert crazy shit here*). Just cuz they use the towny action, doesn't make it towny. It just appears so. which is why they would do it.

In the middle you have something like this:
Surge: Transformation
Orders that can access this Surge: Lightweavers and Elsecallers
Role Powers:
Inventor: Each night, you may spend 10 spheres of Stormlight to create one of the following inventions and give it to another player (You may only give away 1 invention per night):
Spanreeds
Diminishing Painrial
Augmenting Painrial
Alerter
--- Only one choice yeah, but as skum if you rolled it, as we have seem a bazillion times before... it can be used to try to gain credit by being the one that gives someone something. Towny? Actually depending on what those things do, yeah it could even be classified as towny... even though again.. it is not intended to be that way.


On the other end we have something like:
Surge: Transportation
Orders that can access this Surge: Elsecallers and Willshapers
Role Powers:
Commuter: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to go into Shadesmar. Any actions that target you that night will fail.
Tracker: Each night, you may spend 15 spheres of Stormlight to follow another player. You will be told which players that player targeted, but not what actions they took.

---- While commuter is null, it is for sure not skummy. And tracker is Towny. Same concept as watcher from above, they would use it even without needing to use it just to have the results for claim down the road.

To dylan's point - Mix's statement did in fact make assumptions. But they are correct. On top of everything above listed... skum also will have the ability to coordinate steals. So IDK, let;s just assume there is a standard team of skum 3 out there... as an example. Without them getting crazy unlucky, it would be really hard for them not to be able to come out positive on a recharge/steal situation right? So they have more to burn because their EV on recharging and stealing is way the hell higher than any given town player's is.


Summary - Skum will use both skummy powers, as well as any town powers they have access to that grant them town points, because they have a higher BP than any given isolated town player has, so their upside will be substantially increased.

actually another thought...

so if houses are assigned independent of alignment, but you can only steal from players within your own house... like if 2 skum ever were assigned to the same house that would be kind of broken right? They could just have it coordinated to leave out x amount of orbs or whatever and swap them out back and forth. right?

This has nothing to do with previous post to be clear - just something thought of while I was typing.

[faust]

Quite the start of of Day you've been having!

I'll do some catching up.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 1.2

Glooble (1): cayvie
Uncleeurope (1): hypercube
hypercube (1): Uncleeurope
jotheonah (2): chairs, Galzria
Galzria (1): Swowl
chairs (4): jotheonah, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, MiX
MiX (2): Rhand, Dylan32

Not Voting (6): LaLight, faust, scolapasta, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, EFHW

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 lasts until 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

vote MiX

Serious vote. Will explain tomorrow when I’m sober.
1:20 am now and preeettty drunk

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable if they are already in common use. Your vote may not be counted if it cannot be picked up by an automated vote counter.

Please be aware votes in the wrong format may not be counted if they are not noticed/clear

[hypercube]

Why are people voting for chairs?

vote: joth seems better.

[faust]

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

Pfft. Scumpoints. cayvie's cool for agreeing with this.

Should we all claim our houses before the first highstorm comes? I think we should have the information out there.

Also scumpoints. But not as many.

MiX is making some sense. Good for him.

18 people is way too many people and I never know how to play these Day 1s. Also HI.

Bold suggestion you are all going to hate, but I have to put it out there anyway: We No Lynch Day 1.

Why? Two reasons.

1) There's an even number of us so we're going to have to do it eventually.
2) Everybody has approximately 1 million powers so we're likely to learn a lot in the night.

So many interesting things to talk about and joth chooses a stale old no lynch discussion. Boo.

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

This is pretty ridiculous. We're no longer in RVS my friend.

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

joth lynch seems bad for town and EFHW's reasons are strange.

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

Not the most exciting entrance ever.

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

EFHW are you scum again?

Oh cayvie, you're stealing all my thunder. Well not all of it, but still.

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

Glooble continues to be scummy.

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

These are not all that great.

[faust]

Vote: EFHW

[faust]

Also, since noone brought this up yet and it's more interesting than House-claiming:

All Dustbringers should claim.

[faust]

I've also learned that Rhand is in my timezone. Where are you from, Rhand?

[cayvie]

Also, since noone brought this up yet and it's more interesting than House-claiming:

All Dustbringers should claim.

was this a thing that you expected someone to bring up?

[cayvie]

It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.

PPE thanks

Scum would have no problem breaking that pact, and town (in my mind) would be suspicious of the others in their house since there's no reason for there not to be at least 1 scum or non-town person in your house. The trust here could be scummy, rather, it's scummy enough for a D1 Vote: EFHW.

ppe 3

What about EFHW's plan here is scummy? I don't get what you mean when you say "the trust here could be scummy".

[Rhand]

I've also learned that Rhand is in my timezone. Where are you from, Rhand?

I’m a hungover Belgian.

I’ll catch up when the painkiller kicks in

[faust]

Also, since noone brought this up yet and it's more interesting than House-claiming:

All Dustbringers should claim.

was this a thing that you expected someone to bring up?

I expected some talk about the orders at least. It's weird to me that this was completely glossed over.

[cayvie]

hey GreatHallScout and Rhand: if you want to be kind, put something ctrl+f-able in your sig or profile comment so i can isolate your posts

i think that EFHW/Dylan32 exchange i quoted a bit up the page sounds like partners distancing early. or maybe Dylan just stretching for reads. i was gonna wait for his answer to my question to decide whether to vote but patience has never been my strength

vote: Dylan32

[faust]

Are you a Dustbringer, cayvie?

[cayvie]

Are you a Dustbringer, cayvie?

no

[cayvie]

Are you a Dustbringer, cayvie?

are you?

[hypercube]

I agree that it's a good idea to make any Dustbringers claim. I'm not a Dustbringer.

[faust]

Are you a Dustbringer, cayvie?

are you?

No.

[cayvie]

Are you a Dustbringer, cayvie?

are you?

No.

huh, okay. thought you legit might be.

[Glooble]

Vote: Faust

Until someone can explain what’s pro-town about pushing for our freaking vigilante to claim day one.

[Glooble]

Am I missing something? Hypercube, why do you agree?

[MiX]

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

That is what I was thinking.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

I feel like mix is trolling me

Like he knows I got in him for a nightkill TMI in Ash's game

And now he's out here making TMI statements about how many powers the different factions have, and how much Mana they cost

I'm confused. What are you referring to? There's some surge powers that only scum use (ninja lmao) so clearly they'll spend more stormlight than town.

And now he's answering for other players...

Mix I feel like you're planning to get wagoned today, survive the wagon, and then not get nightkilled because you feel you've been the right amount of obvscum.

But I don't know what alignment that makes you

Yes, yes I am, that's literally my town game, get voted on D1 and then get cleared. Getting the D1 wagon's optional though.

Reread setup, answered the first question there.

I am confused at your confusion? What am I missing here? Where did MiX suggest that skum can use kill + surge + something else?

He said scum would use more stormlight because they can do town and scum things, plural. Outside of the factional kill, what other things would scum be able to do? Some of the surges certainly have powers which would be of benefit to scum, and so I don't know that it's a given that scum has additional "scum things" beyond the factional kill. If MiX knows something of these extra powers, he must be scum.

Well I mean it says in OP we can take 3 actions per night. I dunno if it is you or me that is missing something at this point. I actually agree with mix here.

Skum can take surge pool actions and whatever special power action shit like everyone else in the Knights Radiant... Town would try to only use towny actions. As you stated not all the powers are towny. Skum will use Skummy and Towny actions... therefore skum uses more than Town. Yeah?

Rare case of Swan understanding what I'm saying and me understanding what Swan's saying.

[MiX]

Also, since noone brought this up yet and it's more interesting than House-claiming:

All Dustbringers should claim.

How is this going to help town catch scum?

[Glooble]

I'm confused. What are you referring to? There's some surge powers that only scum use (ninja lmao) so clearly they'll spend more stormlight than town.

If scum has watchers and trackers and can easily see a reason for a town player to use the ninja ability.

[Glooble]

*I can easily see*

[MiX]

I'm confused. What are you referring to? There's some surge powers that only scum use (ninja lmao) so clearly they'll spend more stormlight than town.

If scum has watchers and trackers and can easily see a reason for a town player to use the ninja ability.

I don't. I'm quite confused as why you would want to hide that you're doing stuff to scum. It's also a waste of stormlight.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, since noone brought this up yet and it's more interesting than House-claiming:

All Dustbringers should claim.

Hi faust! Happy weekend!

Why should the Dustbringers claim?  (I am not a Dustbringer, but I want to understand)

[faust]

Vote: Faust

Until someone can explain what’s pro-town about pushing for our freaking vigilante to claim day one.

What's not pro-town about it?

[Glooble]

I'm confused. What are you referring to? There's some surge powers that only scum use (ninja lmao) so clearly they'll spend more stormlight than town.

If scum has watchers and trackers and can easily see a reason for a town player to use the ninja ability.

I don't. I'm quite confused as why you would want to hide that you're doing stuff to scum. It's also a waste of stormlight.

Scum could watch the person they kill. If they survive, now scum has found the doctor. If I’m an edgebringer I could totally see myself ninja doctoring to prevent that scenario.

[faust]

I've also learned that Rhand is in my timezone. Where are you from, Rhand?

I’m a hungover Belgian.

I’ll catch up when the painkiller kicks in

You might want to look into better painkillers

[Glooble]

Vote: Faust

Until someone can explain what’s pro-town about pushing for our freaking vigilante to claim day one.

What's not pro-town about it?

The part where we tell scum who to kill if the want to kill our vig.

What is pro-town about it?

[faust]

I'm confused. What are you referring to? There's some surge powers that only scum use (ninja lmao) so clearly they'll spend more stormlight than town.

If scum has watchers and trackers and can easily see a reason for a town player to use the ninja ability.

I don't. I'm quite confused as why you would want to hide that you're doing stuff to scum. It's also a waste of stormlight.

Scum could watch the person they kill. If they survive, now scum has found the doctor. If I’m an edgebringer I could totally see myself ninja doctoring to prevent that scenario.

And you're willing to give up a Doctor shot for that?

[MiX]

I'm confused. What are you referring to? There's some surge powers that only scum use (ninja lmao) so clearly they'll spend more stormlight than town.

If scum has watchers and trackers and can easily see a reason for a town player to use the ninja ability.

I don't. I'm quite confused as why you would want to hide that you're doing stuff to scum. It's also a waste of stormlight.

Scum could watch the person they kill. If they survive, now scum has found the doctor. If I’m an edgebringer I could totally see myself ninja doctoring to prevent that scenario.

Oh no, not the doctor that already protected someone and might claim anyway to let everyone know they doctored if no one dies in the night. Definitely the worst thing possible is for the Doctor to be NKd after doing their job and therefore protecting all the investigative roles one more night.

I remain of the opinion that Ninja is anti-town. Besides this all started with an example, I'm sure you can't question that godfather/framer is strictly scummy, right?

[faust]

Also, since noone brought this up yet and it's more interesting than House-claiming:

All Dustbringers should claim.

Hi faust! Happy weekend!

Why should the Dustbringers claim?  (I am not a Dustbringer, but I want to understand)

It's good for Tracking roles to know who not to target because they can Ninja a scum. Plus Dustbringer is a fakeclaim that provides plenty of cover for scum against incriminating results, so we want to lock them out of using that as a fakeclaim early on.

[faust]

Vote: Faust

Until someone can explain what’s pro-town about pushing for our freaking vigilante to claim day one.

What's not pro-town about it?

The part where we tell scum who to kill if the want to kill our vig.

What is pro-town about it?

You're acting like vigs are some sort of super weapon for town. They're not. They're especially not if take use up resources for more than 3 investigative actions.

[faust]

It's good for Tracking roles to know who not to target because they can Ninja a scum. Plus Dustbringer is a fakeclaim that provides plenty of cover for scum against incriminating results, so we want to lock them out of using that as a fakeclaim early on.

Addendum: By forcing scum Dustbringers to claim, we ensure that they cannot without being incriminated drain Stormlight from townie players.

[MiX]

I'm not a Dustbringer.

It's good for Tracking roles to know who not to target because they can Ninja a scum. Plus Dustbringer is a fakeclaim that provides plenty of cover for scum against incriminating results, so we want to lock them out of using that as a fakeclaim early on.

Addendum: By forcing scum Dustbringers to claim, we ensure that they cannot without being incriminated drain Stormlight from townie players.

Oh I thought town could drain Stormlight from scumreads, I like fruit vendor.

[MiX]

I'm not a Dustbringer.

It's good for Tracking roles to know who not to target because they can Ninja a scum. Plus Dustbringer is a fakeclaim that provides plenty of cover for scum against incriminating results, so we want to lock them out of using that as a fakeclaim early on.

Addendum: By forcing scum Dustbringers to claim, we ensure that they cannot without being incriminated drain Stormlight from townie players.

Oh I thought town could drain Stormlight from scumreads, I like fruit vendor.

Wait oh OH I get it I see it now okay yes I like the claim plan more now.

[Glooble]

Vote: Faust

Until someone can explain what’s pro-town about pushing for our freaking vigilante to claim day one.

What's not pro-town about it?

The part where we tell scum who to kill if the want to kill our vig.

What is pro-town about it?

You're acting like vigs are some sort of super weapon for town. They're not. They're especially not if take use up resources for more than 3 investigative actions.

Getting an extra shot at killing scum is quite powerful. Certainly powerful enough to make it a bad trade-off to out them just to... limit scum’s fakeclaim options?

I guess I can see your logic now. I don’t agree with it, but I can see it.

Anyhow, I ain’t claiming shit.

It's good for Tracking roles to know who not to target because they can Ninja a scum. Plus Dustbringer is a fakeclaim that provides plenty of cover for scum against incriminating results, so we want to lock them out of using that as a fakeclaim early on.

Addendum: By forcing scum Dustbringers to claim, we ensure that they cannot without being incriminated drain Stormlight from townie players.

How? They’ll just say “I thought that player was scum, oops my bad”. Or, the scum dusterbringers just won’t claim.

[faust]

Or, the scum dusterbringers just won’t claim.

Well, locking scum into lying early on is generally a positive as the more they have to lie, the easier it gets to catch them.

[Rhand]

Not a dustbringer.

On the house claiming thing: I wouldn’t assume all houses are well populated. I played a GoT flavored game once with everyone in factions with Nightchats, and I was in the Frey faction all by myself.
I would also not be surprised if Greathallscout is a hitman that needs to kill people from certain houses.

@Glooble / Greathallscout / Dylan32 / MiX: Is it normal on this site to muse about third parties early on?

MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?

Why single out MiX for this question? Is that because of history between you two?

@MiX: Why so many random votes?

After some consideration, I’ll support no lynch over a bad lynch day 1 but I think it’s very possible we’ll find a good lynch.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

Expand on those townreads please? Both Glooble and Didds are on my possible scum list.
And why the chairs vote?

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

Why Greathallscout and Didds?

vote Greathallscout

On a sidenote: I have no idea why my drunken ass thought MiX was scum yesterday.

[MiX]

Damn Rhand is good. Love it. To answer your questions:

It's not really normal, no.

D1's the best day, so I strive to be voting for my top scumread all the time.

You voted me because everyone new to me scumreads me. That's kinda my thing. It tells me you're scumhunting, so townpoints.

[MiX]

Vote: GreathallScout

[Uncleeurope]

The man, who had had been sitting in the corner for an eerie amount of time, stared out over the crowd while plucking mindlessly at his lyre in an attempt to tune it.

He decided to take this moment to redirect his (arguably incorrect) suspicion away from the overly active polyhedral.

“Vote: Glooble”

[Glooble]

The man, who had had been sitting in the corner for an eerie amount of time, stared out over the crowd while plucking mindlessly at his lyre in an attempt to tune it.

He decided to take this moment to redirect his (arguably incorrect) suspicion away from the overly active polyhedral.

“Vote: Glooble”

There we go.

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

[Glooble]

Vote: Greathallscout

Wagons!

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, I can dandelion for a minute

[Glooble]

Also Faust’s explanation was sufficient.

[MiX]

The man, who had had been sitting in the corner for an eerie amount of time, stared out over the crowd while plucking mindlessly at his lyre in an attempt to tune it.

He decided to take this moment to redirect his (arguably incorrect) suspicion away from the overly active polyhedral.

“Vote: Glooble”

There we go.

I don't understand this reaction.

[Glooble]

The man, who had had been sitting in the corner for an eerie amount of time, stared out over the crowd while plucking mindlessly at his lyre in an attempt to tune it.

He decided to take this moment to redirect his (arguably incorrect) suspicion away from the overly active polyhedral.

“Vote: Glooble”

There we go.

I don't understand this reaction.

Was just wondering when people were going to start voting for me and... there we go.

[faust]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

[MiX]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

Not D1.

Actually this is an interesting topic which is sadly anti-town.

[Uncleeurope]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

“I may be a fool, but I have to agree with our resident antihero over here. I find my default read on thou to settle on having a touch of evil more often than not, which is sometimes hard for my intrinsic stubbornness to overcome.”

[Glooble]

I’m trying that stream-of-consciousness, not overthinking too much style this game. Gonna see how it works out for me.

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

True enough....but mine has been proven to be town way more times. Like over and over and over again.

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

“I may be a fool, but I have to agree with our resident antihero over here. I find my default read on thou to settle on having a touch of evil more often than not, which is sometimes hard for my intrinsic stubbornness to overcome.”

But at some point the being wrong over and over and over again should theoretically reset your intrinsic sense, yeah? Or is the stubbornness about my style too powerful?

[Rhand]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

MiX is in my probably town pile.

This is the post that pinged me:

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

1)   Joth’s idea is bad
2)   That question to MiX won’t help you figure out MiX’s or Eddie’s alignment.

And then when I look at all your other posts, there’s nothing in there that will help you figure out anything.

[faust]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

True enough....but mine has been proven to be town way more times. Like over and over and over again.

Is your argument "I'm townier than MiX because I have been town more often in the past"? Because I sure hope it's not, I have to policy lynch everyone who commits to that fallacy.

[Glooble]

Didds town meta is so distinctive that it’s very easy for her to mimic it as scum. It’s completely NAI.

[chairs]

Not a Dustrbringer, sadly, and although my first instinct was (much like other folks) to decry this plan, the more I think about it the more I see the value. Scum basically has to consider the tradeoff of allowing a Dustbringer to live to try to get our investigative roles versus killing off a potentially huge danger of allowing the Vigis to shoot their shot.

As Vig is my favorite role, I know well how with a little luck a Vig can absolutely dominate a game, so... yeah. I think this puts scum in an awkward place.

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

True enough....but mine has been proven to be town way more times. Like over and over and over again.

Is your argument "I'm townier than MiX because I have been town more often in the past"? Because I sure hope it's not, I have to policy lynch everyone who commits to that fallacy.

No, it doesn’t have anything to do with MiX. My my argument is that what someone might consider scummy in terms of style, in my case, has been proven to be authentic to me and not scummy. As evidence, the vast majority of games I’ve played on f.ds in the last year where someone was convinced I was scum, and then flipped town. So, whatever it was that pinged the scum radars of whomever thought that, was wrong.

[faust]

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

True enough....but mine has been proven to be town way more times. Like over and over and over again.

Is your argument "I'm townier than MiX because I have been town more often in the past"? Because I sure hope it's not, I have to policy lynch everyone who commits to that fallacy.

No, it doesn’t have anything to do with MiX. My my argument is that what someone might consider scummy in terms of style, in my case, has been proven to be authentic to me and not scummy. As evidence, the vast majority of games I’ve played on f.ds in the last year where someone was convinced I was scum, and then flipped town. So, whatever it was that pinged the scum radars of whomever thought that, was wrong.

Well yes. That is the case for everyone's meta. When I talk about someone's meta, I generally mean their town selves.

[WestCoastDidds]

This is the post that pinged me:

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

1)   Joth’s idea is bad
2)   That question to MiX won’t help you figure out MiX’s or Eddie’s alignment.

And then when I look at all your other posts, there’s nothing in there that will help you figure out anything.

Cool....

For 1) I don’t think it’s a bad idea in and of itself. Joth is right that the nights of this game are going to be far more interesting and informative than the days. Also, it’s kind of irrelevant....this group is not gonna no lynch. Our biggest no lynch advocate is not playing, and most of the rest of us think a flip, even if it’s green, is worth the loss of the person.

2. It might not help you figure out anything about MiX or Eddie, but it helps me. They are both quirky, and I think that they read each other better than anyone else. Eddie has never done in this role-acting before so I was legit interested in what MiX thought. Finding that out isn’t scummy. At worst, it’s irrelevant information to you, but I can’t see how it helps scum.

3. As to my other posts that you won’t think won’t help me figure out anything. Maybe my posts don’t help you figure out anything, but they help me. I don’t like the idea that there is only one way to play because that assumes that everyone has the same motives, ideas, and assumptions. That isn’t true. So, if there is one way to play, I’m for sure doing it wrong.

[Rhand]

This is the post that pinged me:

I do not hate Joth’s idea.

MiX, what do you think of Eddie’s posts? Is he making the game more awesome? Or is this a requirement?

1)   Joth’s idea is bad
2)   That question to MiX won’t help you figure out MiX’s or Eddie’s alignment.

And then when I look at all your other posts, there’s nothing in there that will help you figure out anything.

Cool....

For 1) I don’t think it’s a bad idea in and of itself. Joth is right that the nights of this game are going to be far more interesting and informative than the days. Also, it’s kind of irrelevant....this group is not gonna no lynch. Our biggest no lynch advocate is not playing, and most of the rest of us think a flip, even if it’s green, is worth the loss of the person.

2. It might not help you figure out anything about MiX or Eddie, but it helps me. They are both quirky, and I think that they read each other better than anyone else. Eddie has never done in this role-acting before so I was legit interested in what MiX thought. Finding that out isn’t scummy. At worst, it’s irrelevant information to you, but I can’t see how it helps scum.

3. As to my other posts that you won’t think won’t help me figure out anything. Maybe my posts don’t help you figure out anything, but they help me. I don’t like the idea that there is only one way to play because that assumes that everyone has the same motives, ideas, and assumptions. That isn’t true. So, if there is one way to play, I’m for sure doing it wrong.

Fair enough. Then walk me through what you have figured out please?

[hypercube]

I’m trying that stream-of-consciousness, not overthinking too much style this game. Gonna see how it works out for me.

Trying not to overthink is something scum does.

[LaLight]

18 person game ya'll. This is going to be wild.

Also, I feel like the setup post heavily implies at least one third party without actually saying it. Did anyone else get that sense?

I am 99% sure, there are some

[LaLight]

I see. That's a good reason I guess.

He's also the only person that I met on f.ds with whom I've communicated through non-dominion related channels, as I tried DMing a game of Pathfinder for him back in the day, although timezones and college kind of kept that from happening beyond the first session or two for schedule reasons. So that's probably why I picked him in that first game.

That was a lot of fun back then! Brings back memories

[LaLight]

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

vote: Glooble

[LaLight]

None of them moved me at all.

i don't like Glooble's perspective of "hey, what does everyone think about this?" instead of expressing his own opinion.

yup.

[LaLight]

Actually not talking in houses is incredibly difficult and thus claiming them is meh. Sometimes it's useful, but usually I think it's not.

So...I think we shouldn't do it as it would just clutter. Mine's out there I don't think a single one matters that much.

hey, you're town which mans you're scum, which means you're town.

[LaLight]

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

agreed.

[MiX]

Glooble's going to be our first mislynch. Count me out.

Greathallscout is acting like scola, so he's scum.

[LaLight]

It's best to know how many dun spheres someone's charging than not, and if everyone steals then you know who decided to break the pact.

So you are suggesting stealing as a way to get info? You still won't know who else stole spheres that night, so you won't be able to calculate how many dun spheres someone has.

Oh, I know -- a stealing pact! Everyone agrees to steal.

I love this. Also stealing is bad for everyone involved, until we know every person-role pairing in the game.

[LaLight]

After some consideration, I’ll support no lynch over a bad lynch day 1 but I think it’s very possible we’ll find a good lynch.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

why are you townreading Glooble?

[MiX]

It's best to know how many dun spheres someone's charging than not, and if everyone steals then you know who decided to break the pact.

So you are suggesting stealing as a way to get info? You still won't know who else stole spheres that night, so you won't be able to calculate how many dun spheres someone has.

Oh, I know -- a stealing pact! Everyone agrees to steal.

I love this. Also stealing is bad for everyone involved, until we know every person-role pairing in the game.

Stealing is necessary. It's pro-self so you can't stop it, everyone wants to steal.

[EFHW]

I’m trying that stream-of-consciousness, not overthinking too much style this game. Gonna see how it works out for me.

Trying not to overthink is something scum does.

I also found this post scummy at first. It reminds me of scum!Awaclus saying he had changed his meta, isn't that great? So no one suspected him for being different. But now I remember Glooble saying another time that he had decided to try being helpful as his approach to posting and he was town then. So NAI.

[LaLight]

Vote: Greathallscout

Wagons!

it's the second time you mention wagons, this is a card not played twice.

[LaLight]

vote: MiX.

MiX is doing this thing when he dominates the thread and tells his opinions as something that is very obvious, although it's not. I think this is NAI, but it's a good lynch regardless of his alignment.

Sorry.

[LaLight]

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

[LaLight]

and I am not a dustbringer

[MiX]

vote: MiX.

MiX is doing this thing when he dominates the thread and tells his opinions as something that is very obvious, although it's not. I think this is NAI, but it's a good lynch regardless of his alignment.

Sorry.

This is a dumb post.

Sorry.

[EFHW]

I see the logic behind the dustbringer claim plan, but it seems to me that the vig has to shoot the night after they are identified. N1 vig shots are often ill-advised.

It seems like we are interested more in finding out who isn't a dustbringer so they can't lie later. There usually isn't much claiming in the first few days. Maybe wait a bit? Anyone claiming Dustbringer at L-1 is not going to get a pass, so is there harm in waiting?

Might be too late at this point.

[MiX]

I see the logic behind the dustbringer claim plan, but it seems to me that the vig has to shoot the night after they are identified. N1 vig shots are often ill-advised.

It seems like we are interested more in finding out who isn't a dustbringer so they can't lie later. There usually isn't much claiming in the first few days. Maybe wait a bit? Anyone claiming Dustbringer at L-1 is not going to get a pass, so is there harm in waiting?

Might be too late at this point.

I think what we want is for scum!Dustbringer to make a decision now. That seems to be the only pro-town thing about this.


Also, LL, these are just my opinions, fight them if you think I'm wrong. I expect people to ignore me anyway which is why I don't try to convince people that I'm right. I've tried that before.

[Glooble]

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

If you think I'm scum you should vote for me.

Glooble's going to be our first mislynch. Count me out.

Nah. I'll run up a big wagon and then people will switch to someone else halfway through the day.

[EFHW]

Re: scum doing towny things, I think spheres and the pairing of powers will be strongly limiting factors that will constrain players, town and scum, to using the powers that most advance their wincons. So unless someone's powers are really inappropriate for their wincon and they choose to just do nothing, I'd expect everyone to be using about the same number of spheres (barring variation in the costs of things, which I don't have information about beyond my own powers).

[MiX]

Re: scum doing towny things, I think spheres and the pairing of powers will be strongly limiting factors that will constrain players, town and scum, to using the powers that most advance their wincons. So unless someone's powers are really inappropriate for their wincon and they choose to just do nothing, I'd expect everyone to be using about the same number of spheres (barring variation in the costs of things, which I don't have information about beyond my own powers).

Scum could have more infused spheres.

I can say much more about this but eventually it's just meaninglesss setup talk that each house should discuss.

[Uncleeurope]

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

"I sing the song of a lad, LaLight,
Who makes his case known, a tad Ta-Trite
'Glooble is an evil, bad, Ba-Blight?'
Yet votes MiX because of sad Sa-Spite?"

"Surely the one that you most suspect,
Should earn your vote out of mere respect?
Voting for MiX, while easy and fun,
Doth not help us find the true scum."

[Glooble]

I’m trying that stream-of-consciousness, not overthinking too much style this game. Gonna see how it works out for me.

Trying not to overthink is something scum does.

I personally find that overthinking gets me in more trouble when I'm town than it does when I'm scum. Typically I find, as town, I'll avoid saying something because I think it makes me look scummy, and people pick up on that and scumread me for it.

[cayvie]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

Why Greathallscout and Didds?

GHS: it's his first game on the forum (maybe first game ever?). i get the impression that he's trying to show that he can hang, so he's pushing his strategic calls a bit. he doesn't feel like he's trying to blend in. it's a newbie archetype thing.

WCD: this is pure town!Didds to me. when i saw non-town!Didds recently it felt just a little more self-conscious day 1.

Howdy Rhand....your drunk ass, and most other versions will inevitably think MiX is scum because he plays a scummy game. It pays off when he’s scum, though, because we have all gotten so used to it that we think his scumminess is null. That’s a long con, for sure.

I, on the other hand, am freaking always town. What is it that your finding scummy?

Actually, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your meta is way scummier than MiX's.

[innocent]what were the results of that hunger games poll again?[/innocent]

I see the logic behind the dustbringer claim plan, but it seems to me that the vig has to shoot the night after they are identified. N1 vig shots are often ill-advised.

It seems like we are interested more in finding out who isn't a dustbringer so they can't lie later. There usually isn't much claiming in the first few days. Maybe wait a bit? Anyone claiming Dustbringer at L-1 is not going to get a pass, so is there harm in waiting?

Might be too late at this point.

I personally do not have currently enough infused stones to perform a N1 vig shot, were I a Dustbringer.

[cayvie]

And now he's answering for other players...

Mix I feel like you're planning to get wagoned today, survive the wagon, and then not get nightkilled because you feel you've been the right amount of obvscum.

But I don't know what alignment that makes you

Yes, yes I am, that's literally my town game, get voted on D1 and then get cleared. Getting the D1 wagon's optional though.

Mmmm... doing it intentionally is literally your serial killer game from what I've seen.

[MiX]

And now he's answering for other players...

Mix I feel like you're planning to get wagoned today, survive the wagon, and then not get nightkilled because you feel you've been the right amount of obvscum.

But I don't know what alignment that makes you

Yes, yes I am, that's literally my town game, get voted on D1 and then get cleared. Getting the D1 wagon's optional though.

Mmmm... doing it intentionally is literally your serial killer game from what I've seen.

Actually my SK game is not to be a wagon because I can't handle it. At least the good SK game was, lol.

[cayvie]

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

"I sing the song of a lad, LaLight,
Who makes his case known, a tad Ta-Trite
'Glooble is an evil, bad, Ba-Blight?'
Yet votes MiX because of sad Sa-Spite?"

"Surely the one that you most suspect,
Should earn your vote out of mere respect?
Voting for MiX, while easy and fun,
Doth not help us find the true scum."

don't like that.

vote: eddie

[cayvie]

Any chance of a votecount, mods?

[Uncleeurope]

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

"I sing the song of a lad, LaLight,
Who makes his case known, a tad Ta-Trite
'Glooble is an evil, bad, Ba-Blight?'
Yet votes MiX because of sad Sa-Spite?"

"Surely the one that you most suspect,
Should earn your vote out of mere respect?
Voting for MiX, while easy and fun,
Doth not help us find the true scum."

don't like that.

vote: eddie

“Where doth lies thy case? Trouble comes from my attempts to locate it. My opinions are as clear as the night sky, I believe MIX to be truthful in this moment.”

[cayvie]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

So let's cut Eddie from that list and add a couple:

Galz
GHS
WCD
Rhand
LaLight
Faust
Glooble

[cayvie]

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

"I sing the song of a lad, LaLight,
Who makes his case known, a tad Ta-Trite
'Glooble is an evil, bad, Ba-Blight?'
Yet votes MiX because of sad Sa-Spite?"

"Surely the one that you most suspect,
Should earn your vote out of mere respect?
Voting for MiX, while easy and fun,
Doth not help us find the true scum."

don't like that.

vote: eddie

“Where doth lies thy case? Trouble comes from my attempts to locate it. My opinions are as clear as the night sky, I believe MIX to be truthful in this moment.”

the way you phrased it sounded like more than a belief; it sounded like you knew MiX's alignment.

[MiX]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

So let's cut Eddie from that list and add a couple:

Galz
GHS
WCD
Rhand
LaLight
Faust
Glooble

Last time I've seen a list like this you were scum.

That reminds me I need to setup my reads.

[Rhand]

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

"I sing the song of a lad, LaLight,
Who makes his case known, a tad Ta-Trite
'Glooble is an evil, bad, Ba-Blight?'
Yet votes MiX because of sad Sa-Spite?"

"Surely the one that you most suspect,
Should earn your vote out of mere respect?
Voting for MiX, while easy and fun,
Doth not help us find the true scum."

don't like that.

vote: eddie

That’s funny. I was going to say I agree with eddie.

[Uncleeurope]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

So let's cut Eddie from that list and add a couple:

Galz
GHS
WCD
Rhand
LaLight
Faust
Glooble

”Truly, we woulds’t not have thou contradicting thyself be recorded on the permanent record. Better to rectify such discrepancies lest they sink into the backs of our good people’s minds.”

“Of course, I Jest...” He winks at his audience, ”I just find it odd that a an opinion on me swiveled so drastically based in such an innocuous and flimsy case.”

[cayvie]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

So let's cut Eddie from that list and add a couple:

Galz
GHS
WCD
Rhand
LaLight
Faust
Glooble

”Truly, we woulds’t not have thou contradicting thyself be recorded on the permanent record. Better to rectify such discrepancies lest they sink into the backs of our good people’s minds.”

“Of course, I Jest...” He winks at his audience, ”I just find it odd that a an opinion on me swiveled so drastically based in such an innocuous and flimsy case.”

this is bad too.

playing to the crowd, minimizing the case, implying basic townie actions are TOO townie thus attempting to stoke self-consciousness

all with no vote

no thx

[cayvie]

and here's what i mean by minimizing: i think town!eddie would have found it trivially easy to say something like "yeah, i see how my defense of MiX sounded more confident than I meant; I was trying to make it rhyme and scan for pete's sake"

instead his first instinct is to just insult the case and throw shade at his accuser.

[Uncleeurope]

It was at this point that even the narrator was incredulois as to what was happening. The tiny man who called himself Paul had only suggested that the strange looking bird should further explain their case, and suggested further that it seemed to be weak in nature.

The suggestion that a vote should follow such lines of thinking seemed inaccurate to the narrator.

And if the bird had a problem with the confidence level of the knave’s reads, then thy should know that the silly little man always has confidence beyond what seems logical to others.

[Uncleeurope]

(Hi, Uncleeurope speaking, I am having a bit of fun playing this character, and I obviously mean no disrespect towards anyone here that I take shots at.)

(I can calm down a bit if people think I am going too far at any point.)

[cayvie]

(Hi, Uncleeurope speaking, I am having a bit of fun playing this character, and I obviously mean no disrespect towards anyone here that I take shots at.)

(I can calm down a bit if people think I am going too far at any point.)

(we're good)

Hey, I got a real, readable response out of you, nice

[MiX]

Hey Eddie, who's scum?

[Uncleeurope]

Hey Eddie, who's scum?

"Unfortunately I am unable to talk at the moment, hopefully thy patience will extend to me while I deal with other matters."

[MiX]

Hey Eddie, who's scum?

"Unfortunately I am unable to talk at the moment, hopefully thy patience will extend to me while I deal with other matters."

You didn't answer my question...do you not have time to give your scumreads?

[cayvie]

Hey Eddie, who's scum?

"Unfortunately I am unable to talk at the moment, hopefully thy patience will extend to me while I deal with other matters."

You didn't answer my question...do you not have time to give your scumreads?

whoa mix is hella townie for this, i think scum!mix would back off here.

[Uncleeurope]

Hey Eddie, who's scum?

"Unfortunately I am unable to talk at the moment, hopefully thy patience will extend to me while I deal with other matters."

You didn't answer my question...do you not have time to give your scumreads?

whoa mix is hella townie for this, i think scum!mix would back off here.

"Careful, lass, you wouldn't want to sound too confident there."

"And I can safely say Glooble for now, further insight will have to wait, MiX."

[MiX]

Thank you. I disagree, but I'm most likely wrong.

Did hall show up since I voted for him? I don't think so.

[hypercube]

Scum could have more infused spheres.

I can say much more about this but eventually it's just meaninglesss setup talk that each house should discuss.

Why is it better to discuss this in the houses?

[MiX]

Scum could have more infused spheres.

I can say much more about this but eventually it's just meaninglesss setup talk that each house should discuss.

Why is it better to discuss this in the houses?

Because you kinda have to there, whereas here you don't.

[jotheonah]

I’m trying that stream-of-consciousness, not overthinking too much style this game. Gonna see how it works out for me.

Trying not to overthink is something scum does.

Hard disagree.

[jotheonah]

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

[Rhand]

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

Can you answer my question in #361 please?

[Uncleeurope]

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

"A fair point, my good man, and one that I shall happily cede to thou for the time being, as well as taking this time to talk to MiX as requested."

I believe Glooble and EFHW are the only people who have said more than twelve times that I have a care to be suspicious of, which makes me more wary of other names overall.

I feel like poking at some of the more quiet folk and testing their reactions. Hypercube is my first instinct, but I typically find mixed merit in poking at people that provide questionable cases. Either they are searching for a logical scum tell as scum, or not thinking things through as town, so the accusation of Cult Leader baffled me a bit.

I think pointing towards a Vote: Pasta holds the most promise? Although my certainty is nonexistent."

[Uncleeurope]

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

"A fair point, my good man, and one that I shall happily cede to thou for the time being, as well as taking this time to talk to MiX as requested."

I believe Glooble and EFHW are the only people who have said something more than twelve times that I have a care to be suspicious of, which makes me more wary of other names overall.

I feel like poking at some of the more quiet folk and testing their reactions. Hypercube is my first instinct, but I typically find mixed merit in poking at people that provide questionable cases. Either they are searching for a logical scum tell as scum, or not thinking things through as town, so the accusation of Cult Leader baffled me a bit.

I think pointing towards a Vote: Pasta holds the most promise? Although my certainty is nonexistent."

"How silly of me, I have tripped over my words and must amend my previous statement."


The narrator also had to mention that there was some amount of regret in committing to this style of writing when often a phone is the only available means with which to write.

[Dylan32]

It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.

PPE thanks

Scum would have no problem breaking that pact, and town (in my mind) would be suspicious of the others in their house since there's no reason for there not to be at least 1 scum or non-town person in your house. The trust here could be scummy, rather, it's scummy enough for a D1 Vote: EFHW.

ppe 3

What about EFHW's plan here is scummy? I don't get what you mean when you say "the trust here could be scummy".

Town generally would be suspicious of other people in their house, since it seems fairly likely that at least one person in a house will be not town.  Not-town is generally more willing to lie for selfish gain, such as breaking such a non-stealing pact. That EFHW's plan was to trust the other people in their house suggests that they weren't coming from a towny mindset, because they would have been less likely to trust people. It isn't equivalent to a true scumslip, hence the "could be," but it was enough to warrant a vote at that point.

[Dylan32]

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

"A fair point, my good man, and one that I shall happily cede to thou for the time being, as well as taking this time to talk to MiX as requested."

I believe Glooble and EFHW are the only people who have said something more than twelve times that I have a care to be suspicious of, which makes me more wary of other names overall.

I feel like poking at some of the more quiet folk and testing their reactions. Hypercube is my first instinct, but I typically find mixed merit in poking at people that provide questionable cases. Either they are searching for a logical scum tell as scum, or not thinking things through as town, so the accusation of Cult Leader baffled me a bit.

I think pointing towards a Vote: Pasta holds the most promise? Although my certainty is nonexistent."

"How silly of me, I have tripped over my words and must amend my previous statement."


The narrator also had to mention that there was some amount of regret in committing to this style of writing when often a phone is the only available means with which to write.

I'm going to be honest, as entertaining as your rhyming abilities are, it's miserable trying to get a read on you, so I would suggest finishing out D1 and coming back to normal after that, because eventually it starts to feel like you're hiding behind it. Just my 2 cents, do whatever you want though.

[2.71828.....]

"What's this?" mail-mi said as something carved itself into the ground. It seemed like a message...

Dylan32 claims Dustbringer using the Dustbringer's reporter ability.


Vote Count 1.3

Uncleeurope (1): cayvie
jotheonah (3): chairs, Galzria, hypercube
Galzria (1): Swowl
chairs (2): jotheonah, WestCoastDidds
MiX (2): Dylan32, LaLight
EFHW (1): faust
GreatHallScout (3): Rhand, MiX, Glooble
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope

Not Voting (4): scolapasta, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, EFHW

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 lasts until 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

[cayvie]

Dylan32 claims Dustbringer using the Dustbringer's reporter ability.

hey Dylan, what's this?

[Rhand]

Eh hm... who was it that said that dustbringers should claim? Faust? Totally feels like tmi now :/

[cayvie]

Eh hm... who was it that said that dustbringers should claim? Faust? Totally feels like tmi now :/

mindmeld on that one

[WestCoastDidds]

And what is a reporter ability?

[Dylan32]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

[Dylan32]

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

[cayvie]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

i dont think skydancers should claim bc we dont want to out our watchers. i dont think edgedancers should claim bc we don't want to out our doctors.

[cayvie]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

i dont think skydancers should claim bc we dont want to out our watchers. i dont think edgedancers should claim bc we don't want to out our doctors.

fear my unpredictable apostrophe placement

also *skybreakers

[Uncleeurope]

"Take Quiet Times (QT's) often, and consistently, guys. It's good for your health."

[Galzria]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

[MiX]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I have been in that scum position more times than I have been scum.

So, do you think faust knew the Dustbringer's ability?

[cayvie]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

why is pushing back on this impossible?

this isn't like a forced claim in an open setup; since we don't have a guaranteed # of dusties there's no process of elimination here. why couldn't someone just say "i'm not going to claim"?

[Galzria]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

why is pushing back on this impossible?

this isn't like a forced claim in an open setup; since we don't have a guaranteed # of dusties there's no process of elimination here. why couldn't someone just say "i'm not going to claim"?

It’s not if done early - but given the number of people already claimed it essentially was.

[Galzria]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I have been in that scum position more times than I have been scum.

So, do you think faust knew the Dustbringer's ability?

Then you’re bad at playing scum.

[Dylan32]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I have been in that scum position more times than I have been scum.

So, do you think faust knew the Dustbringer's ability?

No idea, because if he did, then either A) He's a Dustbringer or B) he got said knowledge from a scum/3rd party buddy.  With A, I don't think this plays out the way it did unless he's scum dustbringer, because he wouldn't push for the claim as town!dustbringer I don't think. Actually I don't think he would as either alignment if he was that order. With B, it's faust, he's good enough to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, and so I just don't think we can tell from this.

[Dylan32]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I have been in that scum position more times than I have been scum.

So, do you think faust knew the Dustbringer's ability?

No idea, because if he did, then either A) He's a Dustbringer or B) he got said knowledge from a scum/3rd party buddy.  With A, I don't think this plays out the way it did unless he's scum dustbringer, because he wouldn't push for the claim as town!dustbringer I don't think. Actually I don't think he would as either alignment if he was that order. With B, it's faust, he's good enough to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, and so I just don't think we can tell from this.

edit: knights radiant are town or scum, so the 3rd party clause there is dumb.

[cayvie]

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

Dylan, was "Dylan32 claims Dustbringer using the Dustbringer's reporter ability." the message you had the mods post?

That is, could you have made the mods post "cayvie claims Dusbringer..." instead, had you wanted to, and none would be the wiser (well, other than me)?

[scolapasta]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I have been in that scum position more times than I have been scum.

So, do you think faust knew the Dustbringer's ability?

No idea, because if he did, then either A) He's a Dustbringer or B) he got said knowledge from a scum/3rd party buddy.  With A, I don't think this plays out the way it did unless he's scum dustbringer, because he wouldn't push for the claim as town!dustbringer I don't think. Actually I don't think he would as either alignment if he was that order. With B, it's faust, he's good enough to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, and so I just don't think we can tell from this.

edit: knights radiant are town or scum, so the 3rd party clause there is dumb.

Logically, it's the other way, no? all town/scum are kinghts, not all knights are town/scum.

"1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant"

[cayvie]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I have been in that scum position more times than I have been scum.

So, do you think faust knew the Dustbringer's ability?

No idea, because if he did, then either A) He's a Dustbringer or B) he got said knowledge from a scum/3rd party buddy.  With A, I don't think this plays out the way it did unless he's scum dustbringer, because he wouldn't push for the claim as town!dustbringer I don't think. Actually I don't think he would as either alignment if he was that order. With B, it's faust, he's good enough to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, and so I just don't think we can tell from this.

edit: knights radiant are town or scum, so the 3rd party clause there is dumb.

Logically, it's the other way, no? all town/scum are kinghts, not all knights are town/scum.

"1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant"

oh shit so THAT'S why people are saying eddie claimed 3p, got it

[scolapasta]

I have been quiet, like I usually am D1s. i.e. my D1 reads are usually not very good, if they even really happen.

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

Another thing to consider revealing is how many orbs we each started with and / or percentage of which that are infused.

I don't necessarily think that's a good idea, not sure what it would even get us, but putting it other there for others to opine if there's any value.

[Dylan32]

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

Dylan, was "Dylan32 claims Dustbringer using the Dustbringer's reporter ability." the message you had the mods post?

That is, could you have made the mods post "cayvie claims Dusbringer..." instead, had you wanted to, and none would be the wiser (well, other than me)?

Very tempted to submit the message "cayvie claims Dusbringer..." for the lolz, but I'm not going to use the stormlight on it. In order to not quote anything exactly, my understanding is that I put a message in my QT, it shows up precisely in the next mod post.

[Dylan32]

I have been quiet, like I usually am D1s. i.e. my D1 reads are usually not very good, if they even really happen.

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

Another thing to consider revealing is how many orbs we each started with and / or percentage of which that are infused.

I don't necessarily think that's a good idea, not sure what it would even get us, but putting it other there for others to opine if there's any value.

That's probably not worth talking about outside of the houses, and I'm definitely not even if everyone disagrees and does. Inside the houses it might have some value depending on how much you want to coordinate with them.

[cayvie]

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

Dylan, was "Dylan32 claims Dustbringer using the Dustbringer's reporter ability." the message you had the mods post?

That is, could you have made the mods post "cayvie claims Dusbringer..." instead, had you wanted to, and none would be the wiser (well, other than me)?

Very tempted to submit the message "cayvie claims Dusbringer..." for the lolz, but I'm not going to use the stormlight on it. In order to not quote anything exactly, my understanding is that I put a message in my QT, it shows up precisely in the next mod post.

ok what this says to me is maybe important:

as long as there is a scum dustbringer alive, then any scum on that team can claim dustbringer, and have the real scum dustbringer "report" for them.

[Dylan32]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I have been in that scum position more times than I have been scum.

So, do you think faust knew the Dustbringer's ability?

No idea, because if he did, then either A) He's a Dustbringer or B) he got said knowledge from a scum/3rd party buddy.  With A, I don't think this plays out the way it did unless he's scum dustbringer, because he wouldn't push for the claim as town!dustbringer I don't think. Actually I don't think he would as either alignment if he was that order. With B, it's faust, he's good enough to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, and so I just don't think we can tell from this.

edit: knights radiant are town or scum, so the 3rd party clause there is dumb.

Logically, it's the other way, no? all town/scum are kinghts, not all knights are town/scum.

"1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant"

oh shit so THAT'S why people are saying eddie claimed 3p, got it

I mean, I thought he claimed survivor because in post 176 the line, "'Tis Living that pleases me." Also the profession is that of a lowly knave in his first post would also suggest not a knight.

[Dylan32]

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

Dylan, was "Dylan32 claims Dustbringer using the Dustbringer's reporter ability." the message you had the mods post?

That is, could you have made the mods post "cayvie claims Dusbringer..." instead, had you wanted to, and none would be the wiser (well, other than me)?

Very tempted to submit the message "cayvie claims Dusbringer..." for the lolz, but I'm not going to use the stormlight on it. In order to not quote anything exactly, my understanding is that I put a message in my QT, it shows up precisely in the next mod post.

ok what this says to me is maybe important:

as long as there is a scum dustbringer alive, then any scum on that team can claim dustbringer, and have the real scum dustbringer "report" for them.

Ooh, good point. Yeah, I think it would work that way. However, this is assuming that scum could roll this order. A scum with extra vig power does seem maybe unbalanced. And looking back, I don't see anything that says whether the alignment of individuals in a given order is random or assigned or random in limited fashion, only that the numbers in each are random.

[Dylan32]

I have been quiet, like I usually am D1s. i.e. my D1 reads are usually not very good, if they even really happen.

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

Another thing to consider revealing is how many orbs we each started with and / or percentage of which that are infused.

I don't necessarily think that's a good idea, not sure what it would even get us, but putting it other there for others to opine if there's any value.

Also, unlike most D1s, you already have nearly 20 pages of content to go through, so while you might not have strong reads (like I don't, too many people to keep straight), you surely have opinions on things that have been said that you could share.

[Galzria]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

[scolapasta]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

Really? I guess my point is it seems that if it is a non town move, that gets discovered quickly and gets lots of suspicion. I also probably didn't say it right - I'm not saying I don't think that faust isn't scum, just that calling this claim is not yet enough reason for me to vote him.

I will admit 18 people is tough to keep track of. And lots to read. I mean I was caught up last night and when I checked today, there were like 5 pages of posts!

[Dylan32]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

Really? I guess my point is it seems that if it is a non town move, that gets discovered quickly and gets lots of suspicion. I also probably didn't say it right - I'm not saying I don't think that faust isn't scum, just that calling this claim is not yet enough reason for me to vote him.

I will admit 18 people is tough to keep track of. And lots to read. I mean I was caught up last night and when I checked today, there were like 5 pages of posts!

I think he means the "he's too good to..." part of that. No matter how good someone is, they can still make less than ideal plays and be caught because of it.

[scolapasta]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

Really? I guess my point is it seems that if it is a non town move, that gets discovered quickly and gets lots of suspicion. I also probably didn't say it right - I'm not saying I don't think that faust isn't scum, just that calling this claim is not yet enough reason for me to vote him.

I will admit 18 people is tough to keep track of. And lots to read. I mean I was caught up last night and when I checked today, there were like 5 pages of posts!

I think he means the "he's too good to..." part of that. No matter how good someone is, they can still make less than ideal plays and be caught because of it.

Fair enough.

Oh, and you're right that there are a lot of posts to start making sense of. But still D1 they are not based on much (IMO).

I'm curious what people make of Mix's claiming his house. Trying to figure out if I should think that's indicative of anything.

[Galzria]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

Really? I guess my point is it seems that if it is a non town move, that gets discovered quickly and gets lots of suspicion. I also probably didn't say it right - I'm not saying I don't think that faust isn't scum, just that calling this claim is not yet enough reason for me to vote him.

I will admit 18 people is tough to keep track of. And lots to read. I mean I was caught up last night and when I checked today, there were like 5 pages of posts!

Where it gets lazy (and bad - to the point of being anti-town), is that to say of anyone “Nah, they’re too good to do ‘X’ as scum” is to give them carte blanche to do exactly ‘X’ as scum. Worse, it actively encourages it AND aims to assign them town!points for doing it. Even worse - in this case, as in most cases where this argument is a thing, ‘X’ happens to be an anti-town action.

If any player is “as good” as that argument would suggest, they are easily just “as good” as to abuse the end results of the argument itself.

[faust]

Well good. People in Dylan's House, you know who to steal from. I won't have much more time for this tonight unfortunately.

[Uncleeurope]

“People should have some Quiet Times... Specifically Dylan...”

[MiX]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

Really? I guess my point is it seems that if it is a non town move, that gets discovered quickly and gets lots of suspicion. I also probably didn't say it right - I'm not saying I don't think that faust isn't scum, just that calling this claim is not yet enough reason for me to vote him.

I will admit 18 people is tough to keep track of. And lots to read. I mean I was caught up last night and when I checked today, there were like 5 pages of posts!

It wasn't a town move and people aren't scumreading him for that.

[LaLight]

"Take Quiet Times (QT's) often, and consistently, guys. It's good for your health."

why? you said it twice and nothing happened there

[LaLight]

vote: Glooble

and joth, you said twice, that you hard townread him and never said why.

[jotheonah]

After some consideration, I’ll support no lynch over a bad lynch day 1 but I think it’s very possible we’ll find a good lynch.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

Expand on those townreads please? Both Glooble and Didds are on my possible scum list.
And why the chairs vote?

I know Glooble very well (we’re IRL twins) and I’m usually pretty good at reading him. I also know Didds well but only from the site. Both are playing their town games and I usually can tell when they’re not.

I voted for chairs because his reaction to my no lynch suggestion was exactly the reaction scum would have.

[jotheonah]

vote: Glooble

and joth, you said twice, that you hard townread him and never said why.

Because it’s totally obvious!

[cayvie]

vote: Glooble

and joth, you said twice, that you hard townread him and never said why.

Because it’s totally obvious!

Are there any distinctive differences between his town and scum games

[Dylan32]

"Take Quiet Times (QT's) often, and consistently, guys. It's good for your health."

why? you said it twice and nothing happened there

Perhaps it's not something that involves everyone at once.

[Uncleeurope]

"Take Quiet Times (QT's) often, and consistently, guys. It's good for your health."

why? you said it twice and nothing happened there

Perhaps it's not something that involves everyone at once.

Do Houses and Orders flip?

[Uncleeurope]

Didn’t mean to quote... Whoops...

[jotheonah]

vote: Glooble

and joth, you said twice, that you hard townread him and never said why.

Glooble is one of those players who plays more cautiously as scum and more recklessly as town.

[mail-mi]

Do Houses and Orders flip?

A player will flip with their alignment, House, and Order.

[Jimmmmm]

Thought so far...

-I'm not sure that I'm capable of forming Day 1 reads in a game this big. It's very difficult to keep track of who's who, especially when most posts happen overnight for me.
-I'm hella confused about the flavour and bringers and breakers and runners and dancers (although to be fair I seem to have somehow missed the details provided in #2 until now).
- I have no opinion about Eddie.
- I expect that the distribution of scum in houses is completely random.
- I expect that scum kills do not cost spheres.
- EFHW's stealing pact suggestion seems reasonable, and I'm inclined to give her a small amount of Town points for it. I think generally speaking (assuming scum kills don't cost spheres), having more spheres around is good for Town. If scum get their kills for free, then whatever they can get from the spheres is probably worth less than the opportunity of Townies to get results and stop kills. So while it doesn't cost spheres to steal, it costs spheres to prevent stealing. However I agree that each house should come to consensus among themselves, as it will be a heck of a lot easier to do with so many fewer voices.
- joth's suggestion of a no-lynch sounds reasonable in theory, but in practice early no-lynches just make the game more difficult. I don't think it was a scummy suggestion.

[Greathallscout]

On the house claiming thing: I wouldn’t assume all houses are well populated. I played a GoT flavored game once with everyone in factions with Nightchats, and I was in the Frey faction all by myself.
I would also not be surprised if Greathallscout is a hitman that needs to kill people from certain houses.

@Glooble / Greathallscout / Dylan32 / MiX: Is it normal on this site to muse about third parties early on?

A lot to read...sorry been busy a skimmed a lot and will do a full read when i wake up.

 I reallly think hitman is unlikely here especially with the moderator's game change of making it clearer whos in which house.

I don't really know what is normal as I haven't read so many games.

[faust]

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I like how you vaguely point to some mysterious hidden agenda without giving any specifics of how outing Dylan could actually help scum.

[faust]

Then you’re bad at playing scum.

Lol I guess I must also be bad at playing scum.

[faust]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

It's good that we estiblished that I'm actually bad at playing scum!

[cayvie]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

It's good that we estiblished that I'm actually bad at playing scum!

faust where's the prickliness comin from? i ask because it feels a little like you're trying to force it, but i don't want to be like "oo faust is scum, he's faking an emotional response" if there's somethin actually bugging you in game.

[cayvie]

I voted for chairs because his reaction to my no lynch suggestion was exactly the reaction scum would have.

so EFHW's reaction was such:

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

your response here was that "Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote." (261)

chairs's reaction:

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

im wondering what the key difference between EFHW's and chairs's reactions is here? why is one "exactly the reaction scum would have" and the other doesn't ping your radar?

[faust]

I think scum!faust is likely too good to try such a thing about the dustbringers.

For the record, that is the laziest and worst possible reason to dismiss something against anyone.

It's good that we estiblished that I'm actually bad at playing scum!

faust where's the prickliness comin from? i ask because it feels a little like you're trying to force it, but i don't want to be like "oo faust is scum, he's faking an emotional response" if there's somethin actually bugging you in game.

It was just intending to make fun of Galzria's position, I'm not offended or anything. I guess that sort of tone doesn't always translate well into written posts.

[faust]

I voted for chairs because his reaction to my no lynch suggestion was exactly the reaction scum would have.

so EFHW's reaction was such:

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

your response here was that "Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote." (261)

chairs's reaction:

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

im wondering what the key difference between EFHW's and chairs's reactions is here? why is one "exactly the reaction scum would have" and the other doesn't ping your radar?

I wholehartedly support your call for people to vote for EFHW.

[Rhand]

@Dibbs please answer #385?

Well good. People in Dylan's House, you know who to steal from. I won't have much more time for this tonight unfortunately.

You don’t want the vig to vig?

[faust]

@Dibbs please answer #385?

Well good. People in Dylan's House, you know who to steal from. I won't have much more time for this tonight unfortunately.

You don’t want the vig to vig?

Not at the cost of 50 spheres.

[MiX]

@Dibbs please answer #385?

Well good. People in Dylan's House, you know who to steal from. I won't have much more time for this tonight unfortunately.

You don’t want the vig to vig?

Not at the cost of 50 spheres.

What else are Dustbringers going to do?

[faust]

@Dibbs please answer #385?

Well good. People in Dylan's House, you know who to steal from. I won't have much more time for this tonight unfortunately.

You don’t want the vig to vig?

Not at the cost of 50 spheres.

What else are Dustbringers going to do?

Nothing, hopefully. Let their spheres get taken by people who have better uses for them.

[faust]

It's good that Dylan clarified that Dustbringers have no useful special ability either. I think that warrants some townpoints.

[Rhand]

True. And mafia would have not used stormlight on that.

I do think the draining of a scumread is useful though?

[MiX]

True. And mafia would have not used stormlight on that.

I do think the draining of a scumread is useful though?

Draining's free, so that's not a problem.

[hypercube]

I think the way Dylan claimed is towny; with that said I think making people claim Dustbringer or not was (and still is) a good plan given that the threat a scum Dustbringer poses is pretty large. If a scum Dustbringer exists we should make them either start lying now or be accountable for their actions.

[MiX]

I think the way Dylan claimed is towny; with that said I think making people claim Dustbringer or not was (and still is) a good plan given that the threat a scum Dustbringer poses is pretty large. If a scum Dustbringer exists we should make them either start lying now or be accountable for their actions.

It was a terrible plan because town just spent a bunch of stormlight. Although I highly doubt Dylan gave away the opportunity to vig shot just to confirm himself as Dustbringer so I suppose it didn't matter.

As far as faust plans go, however, it was pretty townie to suggest. I don't think scum!faust would think of that, actually.

[Greathallscout]

Scum could have more infused spheres.

I can say much more about this but eventually it's just meaninglesss setup talk that each house should discuss.

Why is it better to discuss this in the houses?

Because you kinda have to there, whereas here you don't.

Isn't it better while we have more town in the pool to come to a consensus on the best town way to deal with stealing?

[MiX]

Scum could have more infused spheres.

I can say much more about this but eventually it's just meaninglesss setup talk that each house should discuss.

Why is it better to discuss this in the houses?

Because you kinda have to there, whereas here you don't.

Isn't it better while we have more town in the pool to come to a consensus on the best town way to deal with stealing?

We're not going to come to a consensus on the best town way to deal with stealing. We're going to compromise, and that's much easier in each house.

[EFHW]

vote: hypercube

[Dylan32]

True. And mafia would have not used stormlight on that.

I do think the draining of a scumread is useful though?

Draining's free, so that's not a problem.

Stealing is free. Draining is a separate thing that is not.

[Greathallscout]

@mix Rereading you- in post#260 you were giving your opinion about the stealing pact and then at post #299 you seemed to dismiss that we should discuss this. What changed?

[WestCoastDidds]

-Snip-
Fair enough. Then walk me through what you have figured out please?

I figured out that Eddie is goofing and there is likely no harm in trusting him for the moment and not to get too prickly about his calls for quiet time.

I also think that Mix is towny for being helpful in some of the specific ways that he is being helpful. Cayvie is being similarly helpful. Jimmmmm, more recently, has moved way up my town ladder.

Dylan is being towny and his claim is towny and useful.

Glooble, EFHW, LaLight, and faust are where I’d expect them to be. I don’t see them as scummy. Swowl and Joth start with my trust, and haven’t had an off note for me so far.

Chairs is decidedly not helpful. A hard no, with no other kind of engagement is scummy to me.  Galz is being aggressive and tussling with faust....NIA but worth watching. Hypercube’s Cult Leader assumption was very strange to me, and since then he has agreed with things that don’t really put him on a radar. This seems scummy to me..So, he’s worth watching, too.

Holy cow this game is big.....who am I missing? GHS....I don’t have an opinion of yet since he’s new to me. Who else? Oh! scolapasta. Hhmmm.....I’d expect him to be more in this. But weekends are weird, so we’ll see. I’d move him up to my watch carefully list.

Then there is you. I won’t vote for you today (or GHS) because I just don’t know well enough to know what is scummy for either of you yet. And I want you to like us and keep playing so bouncing you early is counterproductive to that goal.

That is probably more than you asked for in some regards, but not enough in others. C’est la vie.

PPE: 3

[Greathallscout]

@dylan Was there a reason you decided to use your ability and not just wait until others claimed or just claim regularly yourself?

[Greathallscout]

@Rhand was your vote on me because of your hitman proposal?

[jotheonah]

I voted for chairs because his reaction to my no lynch suggestion was exactly the reaction scum would have.

so EFHW's reaction was such:

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

your response here was that "Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote." (261)

chairs's reaction:

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

im wondering what the key difference between EFHW's and chairs's reactions is here? why is one "exactly the reaction scum would have" and the other doesn't ping your radar?

There's a big difference between those two responses. EFHW says "I disagree with joth and his reasons were strange (i.e. the suggestion seems inauthentic)" That's not scummy. chairs response was "No lynch is bad therefore the suggestor of no lynch must be scum." It's just an easy knee-jerk jump at the chance for a consensus mislynch. It's the exact response I was fishing for with the NL suggestion.

[hypercube]

vote: hypercube

Are you a scum Dustbringer?

[Rhand]

-Snip-
Fair enough. Then walk me through what you have figured out please?

I figured out that Eddie is goofing and there is likely no harm in trusting him for the moment and not to get too prickly about his calls for quiet time.

I also think that Mix is towny for being helpful in some of the specific ways that he is being helpful. Cayvie is being similarly helpful. Jimmmmm, more recently, has moved way up my town ladder.

Dylan is being towny and his claim is towny and useful.

Glooble, EFHW, LaLight, and faust are where I’d expect them to be. I don’t see them as scummy. Swowl and Joth start with my trust, and haven’t had an off note for me so far.

Chairs is decidedly not helpful. A hard no, with no other kind of engagement is scummy to me.  Galz is being aggressive and tussling with faust....NIA but worth watching. Hypercube’s Cult Leader assumption was very strange to me, and since then he has agreed with things that don’t really put him on a radar. This seems scummy to me..So, he’s worth watching, too.

Holy cow this game is big.....who am I missing? GHS....I don’t have an opinion of yet since he’s new to me. Who else? Oh! scolapasta. Hhmmm.....I’d expect him to be more in this. But weekends are weird, so we’ll see. I’d move him up to my watch carefully list.

Then there is you. I won’t vote for you today (or GHS) because I just don’t know well enough to know what is scummy for either of you yet. And I want you to like us and keep playing so bouncing you early is counterproductive to that goal.

That is probably more than you asked for in some regards, but not enough in others. C’est la vie.

PPE: 3

I like this answer a lot. Way deeper than what I asked for. I have no idea if creating thought out reads with little info is in your scum range or not, but it’s a good look.
It also seems to be written stream of consciously, which is hard to fake.

Meta-wise I only have played with Cayvie. And only saw her as mafia. But I can tell you that being helpful is definitely in her scum range. Especially in her Day 1 play.
Do you have examples of specific ways of help for her that make her town?

[Rhand]

@Rhand was your vote on me because of your hitman proposal?

No, but I did add the vote in that post to gauge your reaction to it.
I’m not convinced you’re town, but I’m sure you aren’t a hitman.

I’m going to give you a reread though. I keep forgetting it’s your first time here too, maybe reading your posts with that in mind will give me a more solid read.

[Greathallscout]

These are my current thoughts as a reread people. not all at once since theres so many. so i will update. And it helps me get clarity with so many people.

Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me.

Rhand(despite voting me) and WCD, seems helpfully towny to me as well.

I need to take a closer look at EFHW and faust. i feel like there might be scum between them.

Glooble and chairs seem the most scum. I am definitely going to through them more.

Scola- as they said themselves is being quiet and doesnt want to say much so leaning towards higher on my scum ladder just because of that lurckerish feel

Jimmmmm- unless i missed something has only one post so i dunno why WCD would think they have much on them.

Dylan- Ive has mixed thoughts about dylan throughout. and am interested in hearing their reason as to why they used ability.

lalight- Not so much except the slight glooble read in the beginning then switch to mix and then back to glooble. I did like their interest in the stealing-pact

hypercube- was he the first to point out that not talking in the house is optimal? seems towny. It feels like his agreement to the dustbringer claiming plan was jumping on the idea to seem towny and didnt feel genuine.

Galzria- I think i have negative vibes from them because of their "all chairs votes are bad" gambit a thought chairs seemed scummy.

Swowl- seems like they are trying to be helpful

And Eddie is too much fun to not like. I do think they are being helpful (if i understand what they mean)

I think that is everyone.

[MiX]

True. And mafia would have not used stormlight on that.

I do think the draining of a scumread is useful though?

Draining's free, so that's not a problem.

Stealing is free. Draining is a separate thing that is not.

Draining is free, you can pay 0 stormlight to drain 5 stormlight. Don't say whether I'm right or wrong, this is what I assumed and thus what scum assumed, let's leave it at that.

@mix Rereading you- in post#260 you were giving your opinion about the stealing pact and then at post #299 you seemed to dismiss that we should discuss this. What changed?

I gave my thoughts on the subject, discussing which method is best should be left for each house, but saying what methods are available is fine.

vote: hypercube

Are you a scum Dustbringer?

Are you town?

PPE: This post is sheeping Didds and I think it's scummy, although it has reads that look real. Weird.

[Rhand]

@Rhand was your vote on me because of your hitman proposal?

No, but I did add the vote in that post to gauge your reaction to it.
I’m not convinced you’re town, but I’m sure you aren’t a hitman.

I’m going to give you a reread though. I keep forgetting it’s your first time here too, maybe reading your posts with that in mind will give me a more solid read.

Hm. 3rd party, house claiming and making a stealing pact is really all you talked about so far. With assumptions that can be wrong, possibly putting us on a defect mechanical path. You can't assume that scum is spread nicely over the houses for example. It is well possible to have 2 scum in one house or a small house having scum. Making decisions based on things we don't know is anti-town.
I'm going to need to see you play the interaction game rather than just the mechanical one, but with what you've given so far you seem not town.

About the stealing: if we make a global pact, then it can become hard to persuade each other to change that decision later down the line. At some point it might be good to force a scummy player not to recharge and use a stealing action to confirm whether they indeed did not put any out.
Or maybe a useful role that is low on charges can be fed by others.
I agree completely that for now the stealing should be discussed within the houses.

EDIT after refresh: just saw you posted a readslist now. I'm not too impressed with that. Lots of iioa.
But it's a start.
Can you give reasonings for your top town reads (Mix, Joth, Cayvie) and your to scum reads (Glooble, chairs)?

[cayvie]

These are my current thoughts as a reread people. not all at once since theres so many. so i will update. And it helps me get clarity with so many people.

Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me.

Rhand(despite voting me) and WCD, seems helpfully towny to me as well.

I need to take a closer look at EFHW and faust. i feel like there might be scum between them.

Glooble and chairs seem the most scum. I am definitely going to through them more.

Scola- as they said themselves is being quiet and doesnt want to say much so leaning towards higher on my scum ladder just because of that lurckerish feel

Jimmmmm- unless i missed something has only one post so i dunno why WCD would think they have much on them.

Dylan- Ive has mixed thoughts about dylan throughout. and am interested in hearing their reason as to why they used ability.

lalight- Not so much except the slight glooble read in the beginning then switch to mix and then back to glooble. I did like their interest in the stealing-pact

hypercube- was he the first to point out that not talking in the house is optimal? seems towny. It feels like his agreement to the dustbringer claiming plan was jumping on the idea to seem towny and didnt feel genuine.

Galzria- I think i have negative vibes from them because of their "all chairs votes are bad" gambit a thought chairs seemed scummy.

Swowl- seems like they are trying to be helpful

And Eddie is too much fun to not like. I do think they are being helpful (if i understand what they mean)

I think that is everyone.

mmm vote: GreatHallScout

this feels like a faked readlist

1) the sincerity of joth's no lynch suggestion is a poor reason to townread him. after all, he has stated that he posted it to fish for reactions.

2) implying that there's probably scum between EFHW and faust feels artificial (why would that be the case? because faust wants to lynch EFHW?) and the sort of thing one might include if one was hypothetically thinking "hmm gotta say something bout these players, and gotta include some scum on my list"

3) Glooble and chairs are very safe people to say you suspect. this whole list is very safe.

4) how in particular do you see Swowl being helpful? he's stuck to setup talk and hasn't said diddly about his thoughts on other players.

[MiX]

cayvie seems town. Not only did I get the same reaction as her (which I then said so that's NAI) she said what I wanted to say, which I haven't said yet, so that says she's town.

I think the Jimmmmm read says that Didds is town and he knows that. He's not even hiding that he did this post after seeing Didds'.

If he's scum, joth, cayvie, Rhand, Didds, scola, Galzria are town, one of EFHW/faust is town (and the other one's scum), Glooble, chairs, Jimmmmm and Dylan are unknown, and LL, hyper, Swowl and Eddie are most likely his partners. I'm assuming a 4 player scumteam here because those are the games I've lost.

[EFHW]

vote: hypercube

Are you a scum Dustbringer?

If I am, I'd better be working on a killer (haha) fakeclaim!

Where does this question come from? OMGUS or something more?

[Greathallscout]

These are my current thoughts as a reread people. not all at once since theres so many. so i will update. And it helps me get clarity with so many people.

Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me.

Rhand(despite voting me) and WCD, seems helpfully towny to me as well.

I need to take a closer look at EFHW and faust. i feel like there might be scum between them.

Glooble and chairs seem the most scum. I am definitely going to through them more.

Scola- as they said themselves is being quiet and doesnt want to say much so leaning towards higher on my scum ladder just because of that lurckerish feel

Jimmmmm- unless i missed something has only one post so i dunno why WCD would think they have much on them.

Dylan- Ive has mixed thoughts about dylan throughout. and am interested in hearing their reason as to why they used ability.

lalight- Not so much except the slight glooble read in the beginning then switch to mix and then back to glooble. I did like their interest in the stealing-pact

hypercube- was he the first to point out that not talking in the house is optimal? seems towny. It feels like his agreement to the dustbringer claiming plan was jumping on the idea to seem towny and didnt feel genuine.

Galzria- I think i have negative vibes from them because of their "all chairs votes are bad" gambit a thought chairs seemed scummy.

Swowl- seems like they are trying to be helpful

And Eddie is too much fun to not like. I do think they are being helpful (if i understand what they mean)

I think that is everyone.

mmm vote: GreatHallScout

this feels like a faked readlist

1) the sincerity of joth's no lynch suggestion is a poor reason to townread him. after all, he has stated that he posted it to fish for reactions.

2) implying that there's probably scum between EFHW and faust feels artificial (why would that be the case? because faust wants to lynch EFHW?) and the sort of thing one might include if one was hypothetically thinking "hmm gotta say something bout these players, and gotta include some scum on my list"

3) Glooble and chairs are very safe people to say you suspect. this whole list is very safe.

4) how in particular do you see Swowl being helpful? he's stuck to setup talk and hasn't said diddly about his thoughts on other players.

1) I must've missed where joth said they did it for reactions. I wasn't saying that's why i think they are town just that i didn't think it was scummy. i think he is town mostly because he directly pointed out the "game design flaw"

2) I was really intending on making a list and i based it vaguely on the order of WCDs post I'm not sure why you might think this isnt sincere? if you think it's just pointless- well I'm making a list.

4) i said swowl seems to be TRYING to be helpful. basically meant i don't have much on him.

[faust]

Making decisions based on things we don't know is anti-town.

Are you arguing for a no lynch?

[cayvie]

mmm vote: GreatHallScout

this feels like a faked readlist

1) the sincerity of joth's no lynch suggestion is a poor reason to townread him. after all, he has stated that he posted it to fish for reactions.

2) implying that there's probably scum between EFHW and faust feels artificial (why would that be the case? because faust wants to lynch EFHW?) and the sort of thing one might include if one was hypothetically thinking "hmm gotta say something bout these players, and gotta include some scum on my list"

3) Glooble and chairs are very safe people to say you suspect. this whole list is very safe.

4) how in particular do you see Swowl being helpful? he's stuck to setup talk and hasn't said diddly about his thoughts on other players.

1) I must've missed where joth said they did it for reactions. I wasn't saying that's why i think they are town just that i didn't think it was scummy. i think he is town mostly because he directly pointed out the "game design flaw"

2) I was really intending on making a list and i based it vaguely on the order of WCDs post I'm not sure why you might think this isnt sincere? if you think it's just pointless- well I'm making a list.

4) i said swowl seems to be TRYING to be helpful. basically meant i don't have much on him.

Hey thanks for responding!

1) If joth's sincerity wasn't why you thought he was town, why did you include it as a parenthetical in a statement where you stated you thought he was town? And why not include the actual reasoning behind your townread if you had it?

"Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me." implies pretty hard that the no-lynch suggestion is the reason you think joth is town. If you actually think he's town for pointing out game design flaws, why not say that in your read list where you state your read on him? That would be the logical thing to do, no?

2) Why were you intent on making a reads list?

3) error file not found

4) Why state that Swowl is trying to be helpful if you don't actually have a read on him?

[cayvie]

Here's the place where joth stated he posted his NL suggestion to fish for reactions, GHS.

There's a big difference between those two responses. EFHW says "I disagree with joth and his reasons were strange (i.e. the suggestion seems inauthentic)" That's not scummy. chairs response was "No lynch is bad therefore the suggestor of no lynch must be scum." It's just an easy knee-jerk jump at the chance for a consensus mislynch. It's the exact response I was fishing for with the NL suggestion.

[faust]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

So let's cut Eddie from that list and add a couple:

Galz
GHS
WCD
Rhand
LaLight
Faust
Glooble

cayvie, it seems you have a bad habit of voting for your townreads. Should I be worried?

[cayvie]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

So let's cut Eddie from that list and add a couple:

Galz
GHS
WCD
Rhand
LaLight
Faust
Glooble

cayvie, it seems you have a bad habit of voting for your townreads. Should I be worried?

Yes.

[WestCoastDidds]

@Rhand- helpful cayvie provides I formation that helps clarify. Not helpful cayvie says things that muddy the water, but seem true.  So, I think she is being helpful right now....the post above is an example. That’s work she did t have to do.

@GHS (which in my mind has become Great Caesar’s Ghost!)- your are correct that Jimmmmm only has one post (that I can recall) but it is a more substantial one that usual from him, and it reminds me that he is smart and good. ScumJim doesn’t bother trying to be helpful.

PPE 2

[Rhand]

Making decisions based on things we don't know is anti-town.

Are you arguing for a no lynch?

No lol

[mail-mi]

"They are aflame. They burn. They bring the darkness when they come, and so all you can see is that their skin is aflame. Burn, burn, burn..."

—Collected on Palahishev 1172, 21 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a baker's apprentice.

Vote Count 1.4

jotheonah (2): chairs, hypercube
Galzria (1): Swowl
chairs (2): jotheonah, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): faust
GreatHallScout (4): Rhand, MiX, Glooble, cayvie
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
Glooble (1): LaLight
hypercube (1): EFHW

Not Voting (3): scolapasta, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

[Greathallscout]

mmm vote: GreatHallScout

this feels like a faked readlist

1) the sincerity of joth's no lynch suggestion is a poor reason to townread him. after all, he has stated that he posted it to fish for reactions.

2) implying that there's probably scum between EFHW and faust feels artificial (why would that be the case? because faust wants to lynch EFHW?) and the sort of thing one might include if one was hypothetically thinking "hmm gotta say something bout these players, and gotta include some scum on my list"

3) Glooble and chairs are very safe people to say you suspect. this whole list is very safe.

4) how in particular do you see Swowl being helpful? he's stuck to setup talk and hasn't said diddly about his thoughts on other players.

1) I must've missed where joth said they did it for reactions. I wasn't saying that's why i think they are town just that i didn't think it was scummy. i think he is town mostly because he directly pointed out the "game design flaw"

2) I was really intending on making a list and i based it vaguely on the order of WCDs post I'm not sure why you might think this isnt sincere? if you think it's just pointless- well I'm making a list.

4) i said swowl seems to be TRYING to be helpful. basically meant i don't have much on him.

Hey thanks for responding!

1) If joth's sincerity wasn't why you thought he was town, why did you include it as a parenthetical in a statement where you stated you thought he was town? And why not include the actual reasoning behind your townread if you had it?

"Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me." implies pretty hard that the no-lynch suggestion is the reason you think joth is town. If you actually think he's town for pointing out game design flaws, why not say that in your read list where you state your read on him? That would be the logical thing to do, no?

2) Why were you intent on making a reads list?

3) error file not found

4) Why state that Swowl is trying to be helpful if you don't actually have a read on him?

Your Welcome!

1)I probably could have phrased it better- i guess i thought it was obvious why I thought joth was town since other people responded that they were town after the house-issue. I felt the need to explain why i thought i didnt care too much for the No lynch since some players seemed it was bad enough to think he is scum(that was the parentheses part).

2) I like getting information out there in general. i think its generally good to see where people are holding.

3) rofl! There wasn't much to say to this. I think they seem scummy. If it's "safe".... well what should i do? not post it?

4) I wanted to have all of the players down and i didnt have much on them and was tired at the end of my reading people

[MiX]

Vote: Glooble, I remember him wanting to be a wagon that then dissipates, let's do step 1 now.

[Glooble]

Sorry I haven’t had much time this weekend. I’m happy with my vote where it is. I’m townreading cayvie pretty hard right now and her logic makes sense to me. Feel a little bad about stringing up a newbie day one, if I see a solid case on a more veteran player I’ll swap.

Vote: Glooble, I remember him wanting to be a wagon that then dissipates, let's do step 1 now.

Yeah earlier in the day is definitely better if it’s going to happen but tbh I don’t think it will have any traction.

[Dylan32]

Vote: glooble. Last post felt less than town.

[Dylan32]

Rhand, I don't know if you've said previously here or not, but do you have much mafia experience either here or on other sites?

[Dylan32]

Huh, just noticed MiX left the only semi-real wagon (on GHS) to join LL on Glooble. I tend to think Glooble is a good person to wagon right now, but just noting it now for future memory.

[WestCoastDidds]

Rhand, I don't know if you've said previously here or not, but do you have much mafia experience either here or on other sites?

I can help a little....He was in the mafia championships game with cayvie. She recruited him.

[Rhand]

Rhand, I don't know if you've said previously here or not, but do you have much mafia experience either here or on other sites?

I play since 2012, almost exclusively on mtgsalvation

[Glooble]

Vote: glooble. Last post felt less than town.

Your FACE feels less than town.

[cayvie]

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

[mail-mi]

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

It would be the same as if 1 alignment inverter had targeted the player.

[chairs]

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

[LaLight]

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

[MiX]

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

Ok chairs is scum.

Vote: chairs

[Dylan32]

Rhand, I don't know if you've said previously here or not, but do you have much mafia experience either here or on other sites?

I play since 2012, almost exclusively on mtgsalvation

Between Didd's and your answer, that makes sense. You've been asking some pretty good questions/picking up on things that seemed well beyond new player territory, so I thought that might be the case. Softens the town read a little bit, because if you were new and playing this game I was leaning strong town. As it is you may have the chops to fake it, so now it's just a mild town read.

[Dylan32]

Vote: glooble. Last post felt less than town.

Your FACE feels less than town.

*runs away from computer crying*

[Dylan32]

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

Not sure that's been a full convo yet. What would you like to say about them?

[LaLight]

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

Not sure that's been a full convo yet. What would you like to say about them?

that it's the first time i hear about them and that they can't exist  in this game

[MiX]

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

Not sure that's been a full convo yet. What would you like to say about them?

that it's the first time i hear about them and that they can't exist  in this game

I trust this claim. I had the same thought when looking at the setup.

I'm probably reading too much into this. chairs/Glooble/greathall are good scummies that should be pushed today, then we drop Glooble and pickup hypercube or something. I don't even know every player in this game lol.

[Dylan32]

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

Not sure that's been a full convo yet. What would you like to say about them?

that it's the first time i hear about them and that they can't exist  in this game

Did you mean "that they can exist" or do you think they can't?

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

Not sure that's been a full convo yet. What would you like to say about them?

that it's the first time i hear about them and that they can't exist  in this game

I trust this claim. I had the same thought when looking at the setup.

snip

So yeah, did you also think they can't exist or were you assuming LL meant they can and you didn't see it in the setup?

[Glooble]

I’m having trouble seeing how the scenario cayvie suggested would happen. Unless there’s two scum teams, which we don’t have any evidence for.

[cayvie]

I’m having trouble seeing how the scenario cayvie suggested would happen. Unless there’s two scum teams, which we don’t have any evidence for.

Yeah it was just a random thought I had while perusing the setup.

[cayvie]

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

Ok chairs is scum.

Vote: chairs

Explain please

[Jimmmmm]

Okay new plan. Trying to follow along isn't really working, so I'm going to try to get through a re-read of each player before deadline. We have about 5 days, so that means 3-4 re-reads per day. Starting with Dylan.

Man, I thought I had a shot at being first, and now I'm not even 2nd...  I think my assumption with a game this big is that there is probably 3rd party regardless of setup posts, I mean come on 18 people is massive!

This would be a ballsy post if he's 3rd party. So I'd say he's less likely than average to be.

It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.

Scum would have no problem breaking that pact, and town (in my mind) would be suspicious of the others in their house since there's no reason for there not to be at least 1 scum or non-town person in your house. The trust here could be scummy, rather, it's scummy enough for a D1 Vote: EFHW.

This is a stretchy vote at best. EFHW didn't say, "We should all have a no stealing pact". She was thinking of suggesting it. It seems a reasonable thing to discuss within a house, even if it ends up being a bad idea. I'm mostly willing to chalk this vote up to it being early Day 1 in which it's okay to vote for someone just for disagreeing with them about something.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

What makes you think the factional abilities scum has would cost stormlight the same way the knight radiant powers do? And what "scum things" (emphasis on the plural "things") can scum do in addition to the factional kill and surge powers? Scumslip? Vote: MiX

Ehh. I don't have a problem with this vote, but I don't agree that it was a scumslip, just an assumption about the setup. If MiX had a wrong assumption and had it corrected by being scum, he would be more careful about giving that information away.


Most of the rest of Dylan's early posts are setup-related, discussing possible house plans etc, which I don't think is interesting or alignment-indicative.


As for the whole Dustbringer thing, I don't have a strong opinion on that either way, but I think Dylan comes out of it looking mildy Towny, and mildly Towny is where I would put him.

[Greathallscout]

@dylan i might have missed you explain this- why did you use your power and not just wait or regular claim?

[Jimmmmm]

LaLight

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

vote: Glooble
...

i don't like Glooble's perspective of "hey, what does everyone think about this?" instead of expressing his own opinion.

yup.

Maybe this argument holds weight in some situations, but in this case? Why would scum be worried about providing an opinion on the strangeness that is Eddie this game? I think "What's going on with Eddie?" is a very reasonable question to ask.

...And I’m strongly townreading Glooble...

why are you townreading Glooble?

Vote: Greathallscout

Wagons!

it's the second time you mention wagons, this is a card not played twice.

I also think Glooble is scum as well.

vote: Glooble

and joth, you said twice, that you hard townread him and never said why.

So, the gist of these posts is that LL thinks Glooble is scum for that one question about Eddie (and possibly because each player should only join a wagon for the sake of it once per game?), and wants to know why joth doesn't. So, not much there, and I think this makes LL mildly scummy. I should re-read Glooble.

LL, how certain are you of your scumread on Glooble? Is there more than just the Eddie question and the wagons thing?

vote: MiX.

MiX is doing this thing when he dominates the thread and tells his opinions as something that is very obvious, although it's not. I think this is NAI, but it's a good lynch regardless of his alignment.

Sorry.

What even is this? There's plenty of time left in the Day to find something better than a good lynch regardless of alignment.

[cayvie]

well jimmmmm is towning it right the heck up here.

[faust]

Vote: chairs

[Dylan32]

@dylan i might have missed you explain this- why did you use your power and not just wait or regular claim?

A few mediocre reasons all combined together, not any really a single good reason, although some are better than others.

I tend to come out of claiming looking scummy, even when I'm a totally honest town cop with a guilty result on scum that flips red that day (see M126), and this was a unique way to do it that I thought would avoid whatever it is I usually do wrong.

It was more interesting than a regular claim.

It's more fun to use the ability than not.

I figured my claim would increase the odds I'm an early NK, so might as well use some stormlight while I'm alive.

Any future DB claims would have to do it in order to prove it, thus reducing scum's ability to fake claim it by saying they just refused to follow Faust earlier.

If why not wait was a separate question, I felt like enough people went along with Faust that not claiming now would be anti-town, although I stand by the whole exercise actually being anti-town to begin with.

Not proofreading and phone posting, so good luck

[Swowl]

I have been out of town for two days. I am going to need the night to get my thoughts in order, sorry. Tomorrow afternoon = start of contribution.

Unvote (it was on Galz, and RVS) want to get that off the table.

[MiX]

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

Ok chairs is scum.

Vote: chairs

Explain please

It's a terrible question and it's NAI, chairs getting anything out of that is forcing himself to have a read on you. The fact that the answer influenced his read is also a big question mark.



Unrelated, Jimmmmm wants to be town so he's null. I'd love to see where he ends up voting.

[Jimmmmm]

Unrelated, Jimmmmm wants to be town so he's null. I'd love to see where he ends up voting.

Why are you particularly interested in where I vote?

[MiX]

Unrelated, Jimmmmm wants to be town so he's null. I'd love to see where he ends up voting.

Why are you particularly interested in where I vote?

I'm interested in knowing who you're pushing and where that ends up going. I think that'll help me determine if you're town or scum.

[Jimmmmm]

Do we think Eddie has a posting restriction? Or is he just being weird for the sake of being weird?

As I said, I think this is a reasonable question.

vote: chairs

Wagons are good. This joth-gambit feels townie.

The joth-gambit was fine and this vote is fine.

Vote: Faust

Until someone can explain what’s pro-town about pushing for our freaking vigilante to claim day one.

I tend to agree about pushing for claims, but I'm not sure it's alignment-indicative.

If scum has watchers and trackers and can easily see a reason for a town player to use the ninja ability.

I don't think I agree with this. In general I think Town wants their actions to be seen so they can be confirmed, unless somehow they think they have the most powerful role and scum tracking them will let to a Nightkill? Not loving Glooble's vote on faust.

Scum could watch the person they kill. If they survive, now scum has found the doctor. If I’m an edgebringer I could totally see myself ninja doctoring to prevent that scenario.

Yeah okay, maybe a Ninja Doctor makes sense. Back to null.

Vote: Greathallscout

Wagons!

I see LL's point about this vote. Not necessarily because he'd already made a wagons vote, but it felt a bit jarring after some more analytical content. I guess it concluded with "I see your logic now, but I disagree", so he was looking to place his vote elsewhere, so maybe it's null.

Was just wondering when people were going to start voting for me and... there we go.

Why did you think people were going to start voting for you?

I’m happy with my vote where it is.

Why?


Hmm. I find myself wavering back and forth between slight scum and slight Town. I can see why people are getting bad vibes, but on the other hand some of his posts seem quite genuine. I guess I land on null for now.

[hypercube]

vote: hypercube

Are you a scum Dustbringer?

If I am, I'd better be working on a killer (haha) fakeclaim!

Where does this question come from? OMGUS or something more?

I wanted to know if that's why you're voting for me.

Are you town?

Yes.

[MiX]

Vote: hypercube

[LaLight]

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

Not sure that's been a full convo yet. What would you like to say about them?

that it's the first time i hear about them and that they can't exist  in this game

Did you mean "that they can exist" or do you think they can't?

i missed when we got to talk about alignment inverters?

Not sure that's been a full convo yet. What would you like to say about them?

that it's the first time i hear about them and that they can't exist  in this game

I trust this claim. I had the same thought when looking at the setup.

snip

So yeah, did you also think they can't exist or were you assuming LL meant they can and you didn't see it in the setup?

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

[Jimmmmm]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

They're not alignment changes, they just change Cop (etc) results.

[LaLight]

LaLight

i scumread Glooble, because his posts feel like posts for the sake of posts, not really doing anything

[LaLight]

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

ok, I read this as "people who can change alignments of other players", sorry

[LaLight]

that's why i was surprised about the topic

[Jimmmmm]

LaLight

i scumread Glooble, because his posts feel like posts for the sake of posts, not really doing anything

To what extent do you think that's a scumtell on Day 1? There seems to always be a lot of setup discussion in these kinds of games.

[LaLight]

LaLight

i scumread Glooble, because his posts feel like posts for the sake of posts, not really doing anything

To what extent do you think that's a scumtell on Day 1? There seems to always be a lot of setup discussion in these kinds of games.

he wasn't discussing setup

[LaLight]

hos first posts were like too serious for rvs, but without meaningful content. that's what i usually do when I am scum, I feel the urge to just not post, when it's 18 people in a game, but oh well, I need to post at least something. so, what's the biggest deal? oh, Eddie's weirdness

[MiX]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

So you're claiming not-town?

[LaLight]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

So you're claiming not-town?

what? No, I am town, and I wasn't notified my alignment can change.

How do you read?

[MiX]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

So you're claiming not-town?

what? No, I am town, and I wasn't notified my alignment can change.

How do you read?

Oh okay. I assumed something and then you corrected it so I had to ask.

How do I read what?

[hypercube]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

So you're claiming not-town?

what? No, I am town, and I wasn't notified my alignment can change.

How do you read?

LL's confusion about this seems towny, but I really don't think people should claim whether their alignment can change or not.

[Glooble]

Mail-mi, will there be any warning that a highstorm is coming?

[LaLight]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

So you're claiming not-town?

what? No, I am town, and I wasn't notified my alignment can change.

How do you read?

LL's confusion about this seems towny, but I really don't think people should claim whether their alignment can change or not.

they wouldn't i guess

[LaLight]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

So you're claiming not-town?

what? No, I am town, and I wasn't notified my alignment can change.

How do you read?

Oh okay. I assumed something and then you corrected it so I had to ask.

How do I read what?

It was a question of how did you read my posts in a way where I claim non-town

[faust]

cayvie, I would suggest you keep those kinds of questions in your QT in the future. This discussion has not helped anyone but scum, who now know that LaLight is not a Cop.

[MiX]

they can't. because mail-mi said, that everyone will be notified if their alignment is capable of changing, in the case of people who can offer alignment changes, everyone should be notified, and I wasn't

So you're claiming not-town?

what? No, I am town, and I wasn't notified my alignment can change.

How do you read?

Oh okay. I assumed something and then you corrected it so I had to ask.

How do I read what?

It was a question of how did you read my posts in a way where I claim non-town

I thought it was obvious that town wouldn't be able to change alignments unless by their own role, and even then I highly doubt such a role exists.

So to me the only people that could think about changing win conditions are third-parties and weird scum.

cayvie, I would suggest you keep those kinds of questions in your QT in the future. This discussion has not helped anyone but scum, who now know that LaLight is not a Cop.

Do you want to tell us what you think of cayvie based solely on her question?

Ah, questioning faust's fun.

[faust]

cayvie, I would suggest you keep those kinds of questions in your QT in the future. This discussion has not helped anyone but scum, who now know that LaLight is not a Cop.

Do you want to tell us what you think of cayvie based solely on her question?

Ah, questioning faust's fun.

Based solely on her question, she is scum.

[hypercube]

I thought it was obvious that town wouldn't be able to change alignments unless by their own role, and even then I highly doubt such a role exists.

So to me the only people that could think about changing win conditions are third-parties and weird scum.

Maybe RMM51 (where mail-mi was a cult leader who recruit/killed me) is shaping my thoughts too much, but I don't think that's obvious.

[MiX]

6. Alignment Changing: Alignment changing is possible in this game for certain players. You will be notified if your alignment is capable of changing.

So am I the only person that reads the setup or what.

[hypercube]

6. Alignment Changing: Alignment changing is possible in this game for certain players. You will be notified if your alignment is capable of changing.

So am I the only person that reads the setup or what.

Yes, I read that; it's why I said people shouldn't claim whether they can change alignment or not.

[MiX]

6. Alignment Changing: Alignment changing is possible in this game for certain players. You will be notified if your alignment is capable of changing.

So am I the only person that reads the setup or what.

Yes, I read that; it's why I said people shouldn't claim whether they can change alignment or not.

What I think you're thinking of is bad game design. Or...something. I'm trying to read your mind and I'm just getting confused.

Why can't everyone have the same logic as me, that would help.

[hypercube]

6. Alignment Changing: Alignment changing is possible in this game for certain players. You will be notified if your alignment is capable of changing.

So am I the only person that reads the setup or what.

Yes, I read that; it's why I said people shouldn't claim whether they can change alignment or not.

What I think you're thinking of is bad game design. Or...something. I'm trying to read your mind and I'm just getting confused.

Why can't everyone have the same logic as me, that would help.

I can definitely imagine mail-mi making another setup which includes a cult after having been a frustrated cult leader in RMM51. The setup includes the possibility of both non-Knight Radiant factions and alignment changes, so I don't think we can rule it out. That's why the idea of Eddie being a cult leader came to mind when he claimed "knave" and wanted us to read our QTs.

[Rhand]

There’s just no way a cult leader would claim.
GHS would be a way more logical leader with his push for house claims.
I can’t help but think he did that for a reason.

[mail-mi]

Mail-mi, will there be any warning that a highstorm is coming?

Yes. The stormwardens are accurate. Usually.

[hypercube]

There’s just no way a cult leader would claim.
GHS would be a way more logical leader with his push for house claims.
I can’t help but think he did that for a reason.

I didn't really think Eddie was a cult leader, but I figured it would be good to see his reaction and I wanted to get the idea that there could be a cult out there.

[Glooble]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

[MiX]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

It outs hypercube as scum so I think it's very useful.

Do you think he's town that forgot that he can't change his win condition? I'd say he's scum that can betray people, or other scum shenanigans.

[Glooble]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

It outs hypercube as scum so I think it's very useful.

Do you think he's town that forgot that he can't change his win condition? I'd say he's scum that can betray people, or other scum shenanigans.

Just so we're clear, you're saying if cube was town, he wouldn't have brought up the cult thing, because he would know that his own alignment couldn't change, and infer from that that no town member has an alignment that can change, and therefore there's no cult? Or was there a more direct admission of alignment fungibility that I missed?

[MiX]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

It outs hypercube as scum so I think it's very useful.

Do you think he's town that forgot that he can't change his win condition? I'd say he's scum that can betray people, or other scum shenanigans.

Just so we're clear, you're saying if cube was town, he wouldn't have brought up the cult thing, because he would know that his own alignment couldn't change, and infer from that that no town member has an alignment that can change, and therefore there's no cult? Or was there a more direct admission of alignment fungibility that I missed?

I am, but that's not really the main reason I'm scumreading him. That would make him a weird third-party by itself.

[faust]

I think there may be some confusion about what it means to change your alignment.

Some would consider a role like this alignment changing: You win when you are the only player left alive. When you hammer 3 people, you will instead win when you are alive at the end of the game.

I don't think that's alignment changing; all your paths to victory are clearly laid out to you at the start of the game, and you can play towards them.

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

[Glooble]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

It outs hypercube as scum so I think it's very useful.

Do you think he's town that forgot that he can't change his win condition? I'd say he's scum that can betray people, or other scum shenanigans.

Just so we're clear, you're saying if cube was town, he wouldn't have brought up the cult thing, because he would know that his own alignment couldn't change, and infer from that that no town member has an alignment that can change, and therefore there's no cult? Or was there a more direct admission of alignment fungibility that I missed?

I am, but that's not really the main reason I'm scumreading him. That would make him a weird third-party by itself.

I have thoughts about this, but I'd like to hear cube's response before I share them.

[MiX]

I think there may be some confusion about what it means to change your alignment.

Some would consider a role like this alignment changing: You win when you are the only player left alive. When you hammer 3 people, you will instead win when you are alive at the end of the game.

I don't think that's alignment changing; all your paths to victory are clearly laid out to you at the start of the game, and you can play towards them.

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

Oh, but the latter breaks the rules of the game. It would have to be made like "your win condition might change" and not say anything about how and to what, but at least open that possibility. I thought that's what the setup said.

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

It outs hypercube as scum so I think it's very useful.

Do you think he's town that forgot that he can't change his win condition? I'd say he's scum that can betray people, or other scum shenanigans.

Just so we're clear, you're saying if cube was town, he wouldn't have brought up the cult thing, because he would know that his own alignment couldn't change, and infer from that that no town member has an alignment that can change, and therefore there's no cult? Or was there a more direct admission of alignment fungibility that I missed?

I am, but that's not really the main reason I'm scumreading him. That would make him a weird third-party by itself.

I have thoughts about this, but I'd like to hear cube's response before I share them.

He shouldn't answer this implied question. I'm scumreading him for other reasons too.

[hypercube]

Oh, but the latter breaks the rules of the game. It would have to be made like "your win condition might change" and not say anything about how and to what, but at least open that possibility. I thought that's what the setup said.

To me, "Alignment changing is possible in this game" is equivalent to "win condition changing is possible in this game." What does it mean to you?

I have re-read the rules and still see several ways that a cult could exist within them. "You will be notified if your alignment is capable of changing" could mean that only some players are capable of changing alignment, and/or that alignment changing is optional.

[hypercube]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

What do you think "7. Recruit" in the night action resolution order is referring to?

[faust]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

What do you think "7. Recruit" in the night action resolution order is referring to?

The night action resolution was copy/pasted from mafiascum or a similar source I believe, and is not specific to this game.

[faust]

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

Oh, but the latter breaks the rules of the game. It would have to be made like "your win condition might change" and not say anything about how and to what, but at least open that possibility. I thought that's what the setup said.

Yes, I would consider that alignment change, if you only know that your alignment can change, but not the conditions for making that change happen, or knowing what your alignment changes into.

[MiX]

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

Oh, but the latter breaks the rules of the game. It would have to be made like "your win condition might change" and not say anything about how and to what, but at least open that possibility. I thought that's what the setup said.

Yes, I would consider that alignment change, if you only know that your alignment can change, but not the conditions for making that change happen, or knowing what your alignment changes into.

So would I. So where are we disagreeing?

[jotheonah]

About 3 pages behind RN and sort of busy today. May not be able to check in.

[hypercube]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

What do you think "7. Recruit" in the night action resolution order is referring to?

The night action resolution was copy/pasted from mafiascum or a similar source I believe, and is not specific to this game.

OK, good to know. I'd still like to know what Glooble sees in the rules, because I don't see it.

[MiX]

Oh, but the latter breaks the rules of the game. It would have to be made like "your win condition might change" and not say anything about how and to what, but at least open that possibility. I thought that's what the setup said.

To me, "Alignment changing is possible in this game" is equivalent to "win condition changing is possible in this game." What does it mean to you?

I have re-read the rules and still see several ways that a cult could exist within them. "You will be notified if your alignment is capable of changing" could mean that only some players are capable of changing alignment, and/or that alignment changing is optional.

It says "If", not "when" or something. If it's not possible for your alignment to change, then a cult leader cannot change your win condition. But I see how you can think otherwise.

[Glooble]

I don't think there can be a cult in this game given the rules post and I don't think this line of conversation is particularly useful.

What do you think "7. Recruit" in the night action resolution order is referring to?

The night action resolution was copy/pasted from mafiascum or a similar source I believe, and is not specific to this game.

OK, good to know. I'd still like to know what Glooble sees in the rules, because I don't see it.

Basically just what MiX is saying - hard to have a cult that's in any meaningful way a cult if most players alignments can't change. But I didn't see the "recruit". Even if it is boilerplate, its totally understandable for hypercube to see that and think cult.

[MiX]

I guess this was useless afterall.

[faust]

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

Oh, but the latter breaks the rules of the game. It would have to be made like "your win condition might change" and not say anything about how and to what, but at least open that possibility. I thought that's what the setup said.

Yes, I would consider that alignment change, if you only know that your alignment can change, but not the conditions for making that change happen, or knowing what your alignment changes into.

So would I. So where are we disagreeing?

I guess with this:

So to me the only people that could think about changing win conditions are third-parties and weird scum.

Though I may have read it wrong. It seemed to me that you imply that there can be no town with the option of changing their alignment.

[MiX]

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

Oh, but the latter breaks the rules of the game. It would have to be made like "your win condition might change" and not say anything about how and to what, but at least open that possibility. I thought that's what the setup said.

Yes, I would consider that alignment change, if you only know that your alignment can change, but not the conditions for making that change happen, or knowing what your alignment changes into.

So would I. So where are we disagreeing?

I guess with this:

So to me the only people that could think about changing win conditions are third-parties and weird scum.

Though I may have read it wrong. It seemed to me that you imply that there can be no town with the option of changing their alignment.

No, I'm implying that the only people that can change alignments due to someone else's role are third-parties and weird scum. Which I suppose can be the same.

[faust]

Well, I don't see how that would follow.

[faust]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

[Glooble]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

What's a less lame wagon though? chairs?

I could go back to chairs.

[faust]

I could go back to chairs.

And yet you don't.

[Uncleeurope]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

“Our antihero doth speak truth, I cannot fathom this case, perchance I am missing a key element to the argument regarding his behavior?”

[MiX]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

“Our antihero doth speak truth, I cannot fathom this case, perchance I am missing a key element to the argument regarding his behavior?”

Eddie! There is much to be done. Who are you voting for?

[Uncleeurope]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

“Our antihero doth speak truth, I cannot fathom this case, perchance I am missing a key element to the argument regarding his behavior?”

Eddie! There is much to be done. Who are you voting for?

”I remember not, it has been so long... Pasta, methinks?”

[Glooble]

Ok, fine but I'm doing this because I want to, not because faust told me to.

vote: chairs

[Rhand]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

why?

[cayvie]

Players are ordered within tiers.

It's me!
cayvie: Obvtown.

Town tier.
WestCoastDidds: Town. Her interactions with Rhand (#384, #509) are so frickin townie.
Jimmmmm: Town. Hell yeah nice iso reads. He comes across as overwhelmed town who decided, no, I’m gonna make it work.
Rhand: Lean strongly town. His interactions with WCD also make him look good. Like it was a genuine town/town discussion that they both considered sincerely. Read not as strong simply because I’ve never seen his town game.

"Hi, I'm MiX, I'm wacky" tier
MiX: Town or 3p. MiX, as previously discussed (#342)  is playing his town game. Unfortunately that looks exactly like his SK game in my experience. But town is more likely, simply due to numbers.

Don't wanna lynch today
Dylan32: Lean town. He spent stones on his claim when he didn’t have to. I suspect scum would have the urge to be more frugal with their expenditures.
jotheonah: Lean town. I buy his explanation of the reason he voted chairs and not EFHW (#512)
Galzria: Lean town. I think this is town Galz. He hasn’t posted much, but he’s full of stances that feel genuine.
Swowl: Lean town. The very slightest of leans. Post more.

Mixed signals tier; I could be persuaded to lynch these people
Eddie: Null. I get a bunch of mixed signals, probably due to the role-playing. I think he responded well to my pressure.
LaLight: Null. His tone is less floaty than previous scum D1’s I’ve seen from LaLight. His vote on MiX is kind of terrible, but I’m not sure it’s scummy.
Glooble: Lean slight scum. I was going into this reread expecting to townread Glooble, but man his posts just feel awkward. #340 for example, the “our freaking vigilante” bit sounds like he wrote a post, then was like “hmm, how can I make this sound townier, I know” and then edited it. He claims to be posting footloose and fancy free, but that’s not how his posts read to me.

Yes YES the tiger is out!
EFHW: Lean scum. Mostly gut at this point. I’ve never seen town EFHW, but she feels the same as she did in Ashersky’s game.
faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.
GreatHallScout: Scum. That readlist, man.

Extra-special "I don't have a read on you at all" tier
scolapasta: Null. Not enough posts to judge.
chairs: Null. Not enough posts to judge.
hypercube: Null. I don’t see anything alignment-indicative in his posts yet.

[Glooble]

Actually, I'm going back to vote: GreatHallScout

Sorry, mail-mi.

[Glooble]

(It's cause I trust cayvie more than I trust faust.)

[LaLight]

cayvie's tead in Glooble is exactly how I feel about him

[faust]

(It's cause I trust cayvie more than I trust faust.)

Here's a reason to vote for me instead of cayvie, but it's a pretty awful reason for voting GHS instead of chairs.

[Glooble]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Also I have 45 minutes left of "work" and I've finished all the tasks I'd planned on doing today, so I might as well try and "contribute" to the "game".

After that I'll reread chairs.

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

"Before we hammer" when chairs is at... 4 votes? Out of 10 needed for a lynch. Someone's jumpy. Is chairs his scum partner? Or does he smell an easy D1 mislynch? Either way, seems like he's intentionally misrepresenting the chairs wagon as larger than it is. Scumpoints.

These are my current thoughts as a reread people. not all at once since theres so many. so i will update. And it helps me get clarity with so many people.

Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me.

Rhand(despite voting me) and WCD, seems helpfully towny to me as well.

I need to take a closer look at EFHW and faust. i feel like there might be scum between them.

Glooble and chairs seem the most scum. I am definitely going to through them more.

Scola- as they said themselves is being quiet and doesnt want to say much so leaning towards higher on my scum ladder just because of that lurckerish feel

Jimmmmm- unless i missed something has only one post so i dunno why WCD would think they have much on them.

Dylan- Ive has mixed thoughts about dylan throughout. and am interested in hearing their reason as to why they used ability.

lalight- Not so much except the slight glooble read in the beginning then switch to mix and then back to glooble. I did like their interest in the stealing-pact

hypercube- was he the first to point out that not talking in the house is optimal? seems towny. It feels like his agreement to the dustbringer claiming plan was jumping on the idea to seem towny and didnt feel genuine.

Galzria- I think i have negative vibes from them because of their "all chairs votes are bad" gambit a thought chairs seemed scummy.

Swowl- seems like they are trying to be helpful

And Eddie is too much fun to not like. I do think they are being helpful (if i understand what they mean)

I think that is everyone.

That reads list. Agree with cayvie it's very safe. It feels like a reads list of a person who is trying to get as many people on their side by agreeing with them as possible, look like he's contributing, but also not really scumhunt. And it just feels so... padded. Like the goal was more to be long than to be substantive. It's a scummy post. And his subsequent defenses of it do nothing to sway me.

PPE: Okay here are better reasons.

[MiX]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Immediate reaction: "Oh, really? I didn't think Glooble was being that townread by anyone."

Are there only 2 GHS posts? The wall post's intentionally padded, yes, but town does that too.

[Glooble]

lol chairs has literally made three posts since the game started.

Two of them are kinda scummy.

chairs is a great person to lynch if we were panicking and close to deadline and couldn't settle on anyone. He's a terrible person to lynch when we still have four days left.

GHS is much better for now.

PPE: No, he has like 30 posts, but those were the two I thought were scummy.

[faust]

faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.

Wow this is quite harsh. I certainly don't intend to to create acidic atmospheres. I like to make pointed remarks because those tend to garner more reactions.

I think I usually townread you and now I don't and you take from that that I am scum. I cannot see anything else in here, the argument about the tactic I'm supposedly using reads like literal confirmation bias to me - you scumread those people and me and you construct a narrative to explain my actions towards them. But the fact is that no matter who your other scumreads were you would find a reason for scum!me to behave towards them the way I did.

[faust]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Immediate reaction: "Oh, really? I didn't think Glooble was being that townread by anyone."

Are there only 2 GHS posts? The wall post's intentionally padded, yes, but town does that too.

Really? joth was pretty adamant about his read on Glooble.

[MiX]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Immediate reaction: "Oh, really? I didn't think Glooble was being that townread by anyone."

Are there only 2 GHS posts? The wall post's intentionally padded, yes, but town does that too.

Really? joth was pretty adamant about his read on Glooble.

Fair enough, I was also thinking maybe joth was the one making this post, but before I could think more I saw who it was.

[faust]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

why?

All the scumreads I've seen on him are for doing standard newb!town stuff. See also Glooble's recent case; reading an early wagon as more important than it is, and not having original reads.

[Glooble]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

why?

All the scumreads I've seen on him are for doing standard newb!town stuff. See also Glooble's recent case; reading an early wagon as more important than it is, and not having original reads.

I'm usually willing to give day one newb passes, but I need a better counterwagon than chairs.

[Glooble]

Here's the thing about GHS, though. I don't think his "let's claim houses" plan makes very much sense if he's scum. Like, yes maybe there are scum abilities that would benefit from that knowledge, and I guess he didn't know at the time that house members would be announced at the beginning of the great storm, but still, scum is going to know a lot more than town about who is in what house just due to having access to multiple QTs, and I don't see them wanting to even that playing field with a claim plan.

So that actually makes me lean a little more town on GHS.

[MiX]

Here's the thing about GHS, though. I don't think his "let's claim houses" plan makes very much sense if he's scum. Like, yes maybe there are scum abilities that would benefit from that knowledge, and I guess he didn't know at the time that house members would be announced at the beginning of the great storm, but still, scum is going to know a lot more than town about who is in what house just due to having access to multiple QTs, and I don't see them wanting to even that playing field with a claim plan.

So that actually makes me lean a little more town on GHS.

He doesn't need a way to exploit who's in what house to suggest that plan, regardless of his alignment. It can just be generic setup talk that everyone does.

This is a pretty lazy way to townlean GHS.

[Glooble]

Here's the thing about GHS, though. I don't think his "let's claim houses" plan makes very much sense if he's scum. Like, yes maybe there are scum abilities that would benefit from that knowledge, and I guess he didn't know at the time that house members would be announced at the beginning of the great storm, but still, scum is going to know a lot more than town about who is in what house just due to having access to multiple QTs, and I don't see them wanting to even that playing field with a claim plan.

So that actually makes me lean a little more town on GHS.

He doesn't need a way to exploit who's in what house to suggest that plan, regardless of his alignment. It can just be generic setup talk that everyone does.

This is a pretty lazy way to townlean GHS.

Notice I haven't moved my vote.

[Glooble]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

[MiX]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

[Glooble]

Rereading hypercube!

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

Dylan wasn't really PR hunting at all when hypercube made this post. Dylan calls cube out, cube just backs off immediately, doesn't respond to the call-out.

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

We've been over this. But this post is two minutes after Eddie's Quiet times post, so to me it looks like a gut reaction. Two minutes is not really enough time for cube to reread the setup and form an opinion about the likelyhood of a cult mechanic. On the other hand, is that the first place your mind goes when you think about QTs? A neighborizer is a thing, at least as common as a cult. I don't know I legit don't know what to make of this.

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

I'm not sure how true this is. We don't know how many dun spheres every one starts with, I assume it varies. Plus people who don't use powers might have powerful PRs they're saving for the right moment so redistributing spheres to them would be good for town.

On the other hand, shutting down the pact discussion seems to benefit scum.

I got through the rest of his posts and honestly else nothing felt worth pulling out and quoting. The joth vote is null to me. Cube is really fixated on this cult thing. Like, to the point that it seems like possible distraction tactic if a partner were under fire but... what partner? No one really has any heat on them.

There's just generally a lot of short posts which seem to further setupy discussions but there isn't much scumhunting. Which is a scummy place to be.

Plus he votes Dylan for PR hunting right off the bad but then is the first one to join faust's call for a dustbringer claim? That's a little sketch.

So, given all that, I feel okay about

vote:hypercube

Be the alternative wagon you want to see in the thread, and all that.

[Glooble]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

It's not though! There's towny setup talk and there's scummy setup talk. It's not NAI at all.

[Glooble]

vote: hypercube

Left out the space.

[MiX]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

It's not though! There's towny setup talk and there's scummy setup talk. It's not NAI at all.

I fail to see how scum wouldn't do that post or how town would do it more than scum. Or vice-versa, to be honest. It's just an opinion on stealing that is completely personal and not at all alignment indicative.

[MiX]

vote: hypercube

Left out the space.

Welcome to the correct wagon I hope you enjoy your stay I'm still voting for cube right?

[Glooble]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

It's not though! There's towny setup talk and there's scummy setup talk. It's not NAI at all.

I fail to see how scum wouldn't do that post or how town would do it more than scum. Or vice-versa, to be honest. It's just an opinion on stealing that is completely personal and not at all alignment indicative.

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

[cayvie]

faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.

Wow this is quite harsh. I certainly don't intend to to create acidic atmospheres. I like to make pointed remarks because those tend to garner more reactions.

I think I usually townread you and now I don't and you take from that that I am scum. I cannot see anything else in here, the argument about the tactic I'm supposedly using reads like literal confirmation bias to me - you scumread those people and me and you construct a narrative to explain my actions towards them. But the fact is that no matter who your other scumreads were you would find a reason for scum!me to behave towards them the way I did.

Hey I hope you don't think my time read was over the line of decency. I really like you, Faust, and I don't mean to insult you.

Is it true that you usually town read me? I think town!Faust usually accurately reads me. You read me as town in hunger games, and scum in ADK's game, and you were right both times. I don't know how you read me in Ash's falling skies game but that hardly counts.

Since I'm town, and you're throwing shade in my direction, that does mark a difference from my experience with town!Faust, so maybe that is another reason I don't trust you this game.

Either way, I don't think associative reads are the same thing as confirmation bias. After all, I'm out here changing my reads on people, which you've already called me out for!

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

[MiX]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I disagree with the logic behind this post. Scum wouldn't push a no stealing pact if it's pro-scum, scum doesn't need to push a no stealing pact openly, and no one looked at that post to read GHS other than yourself so how can he get any towncred?

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

[MiX]

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Nevermind I misinterpreted what you said, withdrawn.

But you were scummmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyy, no idea what faust thought.

[Swowl]

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

ok, I read this as "people who can change alignments of other players", sorry

fwiw I also read it this way

[Glooble]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I disagree with the logic behind this post. Scum wouldn't push a no stealing pact if it's pro-scum, scum doesn't need to push a no stealing pact openly, and no one looked at that post to read GHS other than yourself so how can he get any towncred?

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Just because you do something for towncred doesn’t mean you get towncred. Outcome vs. intent.

[Swowl]

I think there may be some confusion about what it means to change your alignment.

Some would consider a role like this alignment changing: You win when you are the only player left alive. When you hammer 3 people, you will instead win when you are alive at the end of the game.

I don't think that's alignment changing; all your paths to victory are clearly laid out to you at the start of the game, and you can play towards them.

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

I do not believe this is as arguable as you are making it? I could be wrong, but like "alignment change" means you... change your alignment yeah? If your alignment changes, so much your win con. right?

[MiX]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I disagree with the logic behind this post. Scum wouldn't push a no stealing pact if it's pro-scum, scum doesn't need to push a no stealing pact openly, and no one looked at that post to read GHS other than yourself so how can he get any towncred?

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Just because you do something for towncred doesn’t mean you get towncred. Outcome vs. intent.

If I was scum looking for towncred, I wouldn't post original ideas about the setup. I don't know, maybe that's just me. Well, at least not after everyone's done with that topic.

I don't think GHS was thinking of pushing for a no stealing pact, but then thought that not doing so was townier, so he did the opposite. I think that clarifies my thoughts on the subject.

[MiX]

I think there may be some confusion about what it means to change your alignment.

Some would consider a role like this alignment changing: You win when you are the only player left alive. When you hammer 3 people, you will instead win when you are alive at the end of the game.

I don't think that's alignment changing; all your paths to victory are clearly laid out to you at the start of the game, and you can play towards them.

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

I do not believe this is as arguable as you are making it? I could be wrong, but like "alignment change" means you... change your alignment yeah? If your alignment changes, so much your win con. right?

I have literally no idea what you are trying to say here.

[Glooble]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I disagree with the logic behind this post. Scum wouldn't push a no stealing pact if it's pro-scum, scum doesn't need to push a no stealing pact openly, and no one looked at that post to read GHS other than yourself so how can he get any towncred?

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Just because you do something for towncred doesn’t mean you get towncred. Outcome vs. intent.

If I was scum looking for towncred, I wouldn't post original ideas about the setup. I don't know, maybe that's just me. Well, at least not after everyone's done with that topic.

I don't think GHS was thinking of pushing for a no stealing pact, but then thought that not doing so was townier, so he did the opposite. I think that clarifies my thoughts on the subject.

Agree to disagree. Seeing as neither of us are now voting for GHS, this conversation has outlived it’s usefulness.

[Swowl]

I think there may be some confusion about what it means to change your alignment.

Some would consider a role like this alignment changing: You win when you are the only player left alive. When you hammer 3 people, you will instead win when you are alive at the end of the game.

I don't think that's alignment changing; all your paths to victory are clearly laid out to you at the start of the game, and you can play towards them.

A true alignment change for me would be to get a win condition that you previously did not have, and were not aware that you could get.

I know some mods would disagree on that definition. It seems that MiX believes alignment changes can only be roles of the former category. Which is a notion that I also disagree with.

I do not believe this is as arguable as you are making it? I could be wrong, but like "alignment change" means you... change your alignment yeah? If your alignment changes, so much your win con. right?

I have literally no idea what you are trying to say here.

Not trying to say anything - legit clarifying that I have the defn of Alignment Changing correct in my head.

[Swowl]

Either way, I don't think associative reads are the same thing as confirmation bias. After all, I'm out here changing my reads on people, which you've already called me out for!

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

I mean "associative reads" = Town and conf!bias = skum

If you are town in the situation of linking players together it is an associative read, if you are skum there is is nothing "associative" about it. You know who is town and who is skum, so you are choosing to link town players together - i.e. conf!bias.

[Swowl]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I mean even before people ruled it out it is what most skum would do. Especially in a game like this, with so many players. To have a pact to this extent there would have to be essentially 100% agreement, which skum (or anyone) can assume just isn't gonna happen on Day 1. So, taking the towny approach to the situation is def how I would assume skum to approach it... since it probably ain't gonna happen anyway.

[MiX]

Either way, I don't think associative reads are the same thing as confirmation bias. After all, I'm out here changing my reads on people, which you've already called me out for!

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

I mean "associative reads" = Town and conf!bias = skum

If you are town in the situation of linking players together it is an associative read, if you are skum there is is nothing "associative" about it. You know who is town and who is skum, so you are choosing to link town players together - i.e. conf!bias.

Town can confirmation bias as well, it's called tunneling and then getting associative reads out of that. It's confirmation bias when you go for the person you're tunneling BECAUSE of the associative reads, which is usually a bad play unless it's LyLo or something.

[Swowl]

Either way, I don't think associative reads are the same thing as confirmation bias. After all, I'm out here changing my reads on people, which you've already called me out for!

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

I mean "associative reads" = Town and conf!bias = skum

If you are town in the situation of linking players together it is an associative read, if you are skum there is is nothing "associative" about it. You know who is town and who is skum, so you are choosing to link town players together - i.e. conf!bias.

Town can confirmation bias as well, it's called tunneling and then getting associative reads out of that. It's confirmation bias when you go for the person you're tunneling BECAUSE of the associative reads, which is usually a bad play unless it's LyLo or something.

maybe different defn of the terms here - conf!bias to me literally means "Player X knows Player Y is Town, because Player Y is not their skum buddy"

[cayvie]

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Nevermind I misinterpreted what you said, withdrawn.

But you were scummmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyy, no idea what faust thought.

Mix it's well established that you beat me 1-1 pretty much every time lol

[MiX]

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Nevermind I misinterpreted what you said, withdrawn.

But you were scummmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyy, no idea what faust thought.

Mix it's well established that you beat me 1-1 pretty much every time lol

No idea what that means but cool!

[hypercube]

Rereading hypercube!

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

Dylan wasn't really PR hunting at all when hypercube made this post. Dylan calls cube out, cube just backs off immediately, doesn't respond to the call-out.

I didn't think it was incredibly likely Dylan was PR hunting (it was the start of the game); but it was something to go off of. Dylan's explanation of his reasoning seemed towny to me, so I didn't see a need to press it.

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

We've been over this. But this post is two minutes after Eddie's Quiet times post, so to me it looks like a gut reaction. Two minutes is not really enough time for cube to reread the setup and form an opinion about the likelyhood of a cult mechanic. On the other hand, is that the first place your mind goes when you think about QTs? A neighborizer is a thing, at least as common as a cult. I don't know I legit don't know what to make of this.

The cult came to mind since my last game was dominated by them; I had noticed the way the setup was worded seems to allow them before the game had started. I was pretty convinced by the aftermath of that interaction with Eddie that he's town, so that turned out well as well.

You're right that I haven't done as much scumhunting as I'd like - the cult discussion was distracting today, that's mostly my fault. I should have time tomorrow to do a reread and get into it more.

[chairs]

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.


In any case, I thought I ought to produce a quick scum to chum:

Scum
13. Uncleeurope
3. faust
8. Swowl
18. Jimmmmm
17. Glooble
7. WestCoastDidds
6. scolapasta
12. EFHW
14. Galzria
5. hypercube
9. Rhand
1. Dylan32
4. MiX
2. LaLight
15. GreatHallScout
10. cayvie
11. jotheonah
Chum

Note that it's D1 so a lot of these are neutral and I don't have any particularly -strong- scum/town reads.

That said, vote: uncleeurope

[Dylan32]

--snip--
I was pretty convinced by the aftermath of that interaction with Eddie that he's town, so that turned out well as well.
--snip--

He's not.

--snip--
In any case, I thought I ought to produce a quick scum to chum:

Scum
13. Uncleeurope
--snip--

That said, vote: uncleeurope

He's not that either.

Not yet anyway.

[Dylan32]

I debated talking about this yet with myself, but I'm going to. Eddie's some sort of 3rd party with a neighborizer ability. He said in so many words that upon receiving a full claim from a player, their wincon would then be his wincon. I did not full claim to him, largely because the strange old man character he's playing reminded me of every story ever where a stranger offers you a deal does give what was offered but comes with unforeseen negative consequences, and I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity. That's the vibe I got.

[Dylan32]

His description of his wincon becoming that of someone who fullclaims to him was in response to me asking if his wincon aligned completely with town's, since I personally still thought he was probably 3rd party after all the earlier conversations.

[Dylan32]

I mean, to me, that role seems to have pretty high potential to end up anti-town, but I'm not sure if it's worth a lynch as long as there are other potential avenues for dealing with it or figuring out where he stands later.

[MiX]

I debated talking about this yet with myself, but I'm going to. Eddie's some sort of 3rd party with a neighborizer ability. He said in so many words that upon receiving a full claim from a player, their wincon would then be his wincon. I did not full claim to him, largely because the strange old man character he's playing reminded me of every story ever where a stranger offers you a deal does give what was offered but comes with unforeseen negative consequences, and I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity. That's the vibe I got.

Why didn't you make him town? Seems like an odd thing to not do. Someone has to, right?

Anyway, this seems to make sense.

I mean, to me, that role seems to have pretty high potential to end up anti-town, but I'm not sure if it's worth a lynch as long as there are other potential avenues for dealing with it or figuring out where he stands later.

We should lynch scum first, and Uncle's reads are good enough that I'd rather keep him alive for now.

[Dylan32]

I debated talking about this yet with myself, but I'm going to. Eddie's some sort of 3rd party with a neighborizer ability. He said in so many words that upon receiving a full claim from a player, their wincon would then be his wincon. I did not full claim to him, largely because the strange old man character he's playing reminded me of every story ever where a stranger offers you a deal does give what was offered but comes with unforeseen negative consequences, and I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity. That's the vibe I got.

Why didn't you make him town? Seems like an odd thing to not do. Someone has to, right?

Anyway, this seems to make sense.

I mean, to me, that role seems to have pretty high potential to end up anti-town, but I'm not sure if it's worth a lynch as long as there are other potential avenues for dealing with it or figuring out where he stands later.

We should lynch scum first, and Uncle's reads are good enough that I'd rather keep him alive for now.

Re your question: Did you miss the, "I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity."

[MiX]

I debated talking about this yet with myself, but I'm going to. Eddie's some sort of 3rd party with a neighborizer ability. He said in so many words that upon receiving a full claim from a player, their wincon would then be his wincon. I did not full claim to him, largely because the strange old man character he's playing reminded me of every story ever where a stranger offers you a deal does give what was offered but comes with unforeseen negative consequences, and I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity. That's the vibe I got.

Why didn't you make him town? Seems like an odd thing to not do. Someone has to, right?

Anyway, this seems to make sense.

I mean, to me, that role seems to have pretty high potential to end up anti-town, but I'm not sure if it's worth a lynch as long as there are other potential avenues for dealing with it or figuring out where he stands later.

We should lynch scum first, and Uncle's reads are good enough that I'd rather keep him alive for now.

Re your question: Did you miss the, "I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity."

Yeah even then it's pro-town to do it. Net effect is 1 third-party is dayvigged. You spent stormlight anyway. Of course no one wants to make that decision but still...

Also if they die, wouldn't everyone know what alignment he is? That seems like a meh ability. I think Uncle's making it look weirder and shadier than it is.

[Jimmmmm]

Yes YES the tiger is out!
EFHW: Lean scum. Mostly gut at this point. I’ve never seen town EFHW, but she feels the same as she did in Ashersky’s game.
faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.
GreatHallScout: Scum. That readlist, man.

How seriously are you calling out a 3-man team here?

[Swowl]

I debated talking about this yet with myself, but I'm going to. Eddie's some sort of 3rd party with a neighborizer ability. He said in so many words that upon receiving a full claim from a player, their wincon would then be his wincon. I did not full claim to him, largely because the strange old man character he's playing reminded me of every story ever where a stranger offers you a deal does give what was offered but comes with unforeseen negative consequences, and I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity. That's the vibe I got.

Why didn't you make him town? Seems like an odd thing to not do. Someone has to, right?

Anyway, this seems to make sense.

I mean, to me, that role seems to have pretty high potential to end up anti-town, but I'm not sure if it's worth a lynch as long as there are other potential avenues for dealing with it or figuring out where he stands later.

We should lynch scum first, and Uncle's reads are good enough that I'd rather keep him alive for now.

Re your question: Did you miss the, "I wondered if it would involve him killing the person who full-claimed and assuming their identity."

Yeah even then it's pro-town to do it. Net effect is 1 third-party is dayvigged. You spent stormlight anyway. Of course no one wants to make that decision but still...

Also if they die, wouldn't everyone know what alignment he is? That seems like a meh ability. I think Uncle's making it look weirder and shadier than it is.

I mean Eddie doesn't normally interact in all that many sentences early days... or even when they get into they still paraphrase. I don't think they are over doing it here. I think they have a posting restriction forcing them into it.

[Jimmmmm]

PPE: No, he has like 30 posts, but those were the two I thought were scummy.

Did you find any you thought were Towny and decided to leave them out?

[Dylan32]

There was also nothing that indicated his alignment wouldn't change again if someone else claimed to him afterwards. I've never heard of a role like this, so I have no idea what to expect or what "normal" limitations or rules that role would have.

ppe 2

[MiX]

There was also nothing that indicated his alignment wouldn't change again if someone else claimed to him afterwards. I've never heard of a role like this, so I have no idea what to expect or what "normal" limitations or rules that role would have.

ppe 2

I still don't know why you wouldn't just...do it. I mean, do you need to keep your role a secret? You already claimed everything! What are you losing with this?

From what I've seen, Uncle offered to be part of your team, and you refused out of fear. That seems anti-town, although somewhat null. Scum would be more afraid, whereas town is just irrational.

[Dylan32]

There was also nothing that indicated his alignment wouldn't change again if someone else claimed to him afterwards. I've never heard of a role like this, so I have no idea what to expect or what "normal" limitations or rules that role would have.

ppe 2

I still don't know why you wouldn't just...do it. I mean, do you need to keep your role a secret? You already claimed everything! What are you losing with this?

From what I've seen, Uncle offered to be part of your team, and you refused out of fear. That seems anti-town, although somewhat null. Scum would be more afraid, whereas town is just irrational.

Town would be less trusting, scum has more to gain by adding a person compared to town.

[MiX]

There was also nothing that indicated his alignment wouldn't change again if someone else claimed to him afterwards. I've never heard of a role like this, so I have no idea what to expect or what "normal" limitations or rules that role would have.

ppe 2

I still don't know why you wouldn't just...do it. I mean, do you need to keep your role a secret? You already claimed everything! What are you losing with this?

From what I've seen, Uncle offered to be part of your team, and you refused out of fear. That seems anti-town, although somewhat null. Scum would be more afraid, whereas town is just irrational.

Town would be less trusting, scum has more to gain by adding a person compared to town.

Town has nothing to lose, scum might just be outed D1 by a gambit.

[Glooble]

PPE: No, he has like 30 posts, but those were the two I thought were scummy.

Did you find any you thought were Towny and decided to leave them out?

Yeah I pointed those out a few posts later. MiX and I have been pointlessly arguing about them.

[chairs]

There was also nothing that indicated his alignment wouldn't change again if someone else claimed to him afterwards. I've never heard of a role like this, so I have no idea what to expect or what "normal" limitations or rules that role would have.

ppe 2

I still don't know why you wouldn't just...do it. I mean, do you need to keep your role a secret? You already claimed everything! What are you losing with this?

From what I've seen, Uncle offered to be part of your team, and you refused out of fear. That seems anti-town, although somewhat null. Scum would be more afraid, whereas town is just irrational.

Town would be less trusting, scum has more to gain by adding a person compared to town.

Town has nothing to lose, scum might just be outed D1 by a gambit.

Definitely with MiX on this one.

[WestCoastDidds]

There was also nothing that indicated his alignment wouldn't change again if someone else claimed to him afterwards. I've never heard of a role like this, so I have no idea what to expect or what "normal" limitations or rules that role would have.

ppe 2

I still don't know why you wouldn't just...do it. I mean, do you need to keep your role a secret? You already claimed everything! What are you losing with this?

From what I've seen, Uncle offered to be part of your team, and you refused out of fear. That seems anti-town, although somewhat null. Scum would be more afraid, whereas town is just irrational.

Would you full claim to him MiX?

[EFHW]

Sorry, busy day today. I will have time to catch up tomorrow.

[cayvie]

Yes YES the tiger is out!
EFHW: Lean scum. Mostly gut at this point. I’ve never seen town EFHW, but she feels the same as she did in Ashersky’s game.
faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.
GreatHallScout: Scum. That readlist, man.

How seriously are you calling out a 3-man team here?

I mean I believe everything I'm saying.

I would think a team of 3 would be pretty small for a game this size. But I wouldn't be shocked if those three were buds together.

How confident am I? Not that confident in the whole team. Most confident in GHS, which is why my vote is on him. Let's say I'd bet that GHS is scum if I got 2:1 odds or better.

[cayvie]

But right now, I think we should just Lynch Eddie. Don't want a traitor joining scum. Feels like we'll have to lunch him eventually anyway so why not now?

vote: eddie

[cayvie]

I feel I should clarify, since there's been confusion.

Confirmation bias is basically a synonym for tunneling, to me. It's when you latch onto a belief and only see the evidence that supports it, and ignore anything against it.

So that's how I use the phrase. If that's not what faust meant, then I misinterpreted him.

[Galzria]

Been busy most of today. Will catch up tomorrow.

[Swowl]

But right now, I think we should just Lynch Eddie. Don't want a traitor joining scum. Feels like we'll have to lunch him eventually anyway so why not now?

vote: eddie

Restriction could go away? In terms of "why not to lynch them".
Also, and this is just speaking to the rational belief of Eddie and their restriction:
1) They don't have a restriction, they are effing around. if so, clap clap, keep it up good job.
2) They are Town, and they have a RESTRICTION... this would kind of dictate that their potential utility is large... considering no one else has a posting restriction we have seen. A little bit of a stretch on that one... but the logic is not like... awful.
3) Other way around, if they are skum... doesn't a posting restriction just seem like a super unfair thing to give to a skum aligned player? It will by defn make them stand out.

[Jimmmmm]

I find it highly unlikely that posting restrictions exist. I think there are certain players who would refuse to play a game (at least a non-Bastard game) with them. I know that if my PM said "You have to talk like a bard the whole game" I would immediately lose interest.

[Jimmmmm]

Next is either faust or chairs... let's go with chairs.

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

There was one or more votes on chairs for this post, but I think it's null. It's his first post of the game and I think disagreeing with someone's plan is a good enough reason for a vote in your first post.

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

This one I do find a bit sus though. Good question sure, by why does that result in Townpoints? Is there some reason why scum don't ask good questions? It's not like no Townie would think of it if it became relevant.

I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

This isn't really saying anything. Generally everyone thinks what they say is relatively Towny, otherwise they wouldn't say it.

In any case, I thought I ought to produce a quick scum to chum:

Scum
13. Uncleeurope
3. faust
8. Swowl
18. Jimmmmm
17. Glooble
7. WestCoastDidds
6. scolapasta
12. EFHW
14. Galzria
5. hypercube
9. Rhand
1. Dylan32
4. MiX
2. LaLight
15. GreatHallScout
10. cayvie
11. jotheonah
Chum

Note that it's D1 so a lot of these are neutral and I don't have any particularly -strong- scum/town reads.

That said, vote: uncleeurope

I don't really see the value in this list. Given that you've expressed an opinion on one player in the game prior to this (I'm not counting your vote on joth since he's now the chummiest), this just seems to be an arbitrary list with no indication of how you actually feel about anyone here. Why Eddie? Why is anyone where they are?


Overall I think I agree with Glooble: chairs wouldn't be bad lynch but there's just not enough there to say that he would be a good one. Hopefully we can do better.

[Swowl]

I find it highly unlikely that posting restrictions exist. I think there are certain players who would refuse to play a game (at least a non-Bastard game) with them. I know that if my PM said "You have to talk like a bard the whole game" I would immediately lose interest.

so you think Eddie is just putting us on then?

[Swowl]

I find it highly unlikely that posting restrictions exist. I think there are certain players who would refuse to play a game (at least a non-Bastard game) with them. I know that if my PM said "You have to talk like a bard the whole game" I would immediately lose interest.

so you think Eddie is just putting us on then?

what if your restriction was "you can have access to power x as long as you talk like a bard"?

[Jimmmmm]

so you think Eddie is just putting us on then?

I don't know what Eddie is doing. Has he said he has a posting restriction? My eyes kind of glaze over when I try to read his posts.

what if your restriction was "you can have access to power x as long as you talk like a bard"?

I don't really see a difference. In either case I would wish it had been announced beforehand so I could decide if I wanted to play in that kind of game or not.

[faust]

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

1. The question was not excellent.
2. Town doesn't need an answer for it. The chances of there being 2 alignment inverters on opposing scum teams are already pretty low. The chances of both of these targeting the same player the same Night a Cop also targets the player are astronomicallly low to the point where such a scenario should never be considered in actual gameplay.
3. The question lead to an anti-town outcome in LaLight kind of derpclaiming.

[faust]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

[faust]

Yes YES the tiger is out!
EFHW: Lean scum. Mostly gut at this point. I’ve never seen town EFHW, but she feels the same as she did in Ashersky’s game.
faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.
GreatHallScout: Scum. That readlist, man.

How seriously are you calling out a 3-man team here?

Certainly not seriously at all, since EFHW is not a man.

[faust]

I feel I should clarify, since there's been confusion.

Confirmation bias is basically a synonym for tunneling, to me. It's when you latch onto a belief and only see the evidence that supports it, and ignore anything against it.

So that's how I use the phrase. If that's not what faust meant, then I misinterpreted him.

Why I say it's confirmation bias is not so much that you're ignoring things, and more that you interpret any piece of information as some indicator to support your read, even if by any metric it's pretty NAI (like in this case that fact that you scumread GHS and EFHW).

[faust]

I find it highly unlikely that posting restrictions exist. I think there are certain players who would refuse to play a game (at least a non-Bastard game) with them. I know that if my PM said "You have to talk like a bard the whole game" I would immediately lose interest.

so you think Eddie is just putting us on then?

what if your restriction was "you can have access to power x as long as you talk like a bard"?

There are no posting restrictions. First of all it would be bastard, second of all Eddie already said that he's just doing it for fun.

[Jimmmmm]

Certainly not seriously at all, since EFHW is not a man.

I believe she's part of mankind though.

[faust]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

[cayvie]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

[faust]

Certainly not seriously at all, since EFHW is not a man.

I believe she's part of mankind though.

I believe that post is part of RSP though.

[faust]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

[Jimmmmm]

I believe that post is part of RSP though.

I'm not really sure what you're saying; you brought this up. ("Believe" in that sentence was meant to be tongue-in-cheek - maybe she's a very convincing android?) There are plenty of situations in which "man" is used in a non-gender-specific way, however you're right that it's probably better form to say 3-person team.

[Rhand]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

Because he didn’t believe Eddie was telling the full truth. Which is what you also don’t necessarily believe, so you’ve answered your own question.
And mafia!Dylan would’ve taken the recruit.

vote Faust

[faust]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

Because he didn’t believe Eddie was telling the full truth. Which is what you also don’t necessarily believe, so you’ve answered your own question.
And mafia!Dylan would’ve taken the recruit.

vote Faust

He doesn't need to believe that Eddie is telling the full truth. Only mafia!Dylan needs to worry about Eddie lying, as that would mean he's outed as scum. Town!Dylan is already outed.

[Rhand]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

Because he didn’t believe Eddie was telling the full truth. Which is what you also don’t necessarily believe, so you’ve answered your own question.
And mafia!Dylan would’ve taken the recruit.

vote Faust

He doesn't need to believe that Eddie is telling the full truth. Only mafia!Dylan needs to worry about Eddie lying, as that would mean he's outed as scum. Town!Dylan is already outed.

Eh hm I overlooked a scenario.
Let’s see what Eddie has to say.

Vote GHS

[faust]

Reminder that colons are necessary if you want your vote to count.

[Rhand]

Oh thanks. Bad homesite habits

I guess that means my vote is still where I want it to be.
Are abbreviations for names ok?

[2.71828.....]

Oh thanks. Bad homesite habits

I guess that means my vote is still where I want it to be.
Are abbreviations for names ok?

Abbreviations are good unless it is not discernable to the mods who you are referring to.

But yes, please vote again utilizing a colon

Also, I only caught this because it was the last post, please utilize bold font or your personal qt for questions directed at the mods

[Jimmmmm]

GHS

I think people jumped on this as being too generic? On the one hand I think it's an improvement on setup talk. On the other hand,  I don't think with a group this size these big lists with one or fewer lines per person are really doing much. The most helpful sentence is "Glooble and chairs seem the most scum", but that does nothing to make me think they are, and it's hardly a commitment to a scumread. Perhaps there's an argument that it's forming fake reads for the sake of having them, but really everyone's trying to form reads. If the purpose of this post is to help him keep people straight then that's great, but it's not really any better here than in his personal notes. So, I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I think this is null and hopefully it's expanded on.


And... that's it in for GHS. I think he's null, but am keeping an eye out for some more useful content from him.

[Jimmmmm]

Darn it, messed that post up.

[Jimmmmm]

GHS (Take 2)

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

Everything before this was setup discussion, house discussion, which I'm not super interested in. Someone pointed out that it was very early in the Day and very far from the hammer to be worried about getting things done before the hammer. I agree it's a little strange, but I'm not sure it's scummy. To me it just seems like someone who's not aware of how quickly lynches do or don't happen here.

I think people jumped on this as being too generic? On the one hand I think it's an improvement on setup talk. On the other hand,  I don't think with a group this size these big lists with one or fewer lines per person are really doing much. The most helpful sentence is "Glooble and chairs seem the most scum", but that does nothing to make me think they are, and it's hardly a commitment to a scumread. Perhaps there's an argument that it's forming fake reads for the sake of having them, but really everyone's trying to form reads. If the purpose of this post is to help him keep people straight then that's great, but it's not really any better here than in his personal notes. So, I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I think this is null and hopefully it's expanded on.


And... that's it in for GHS. I think he's null, but am keeping an eye out for some more useful content from him.

[faust]

GHS

I thought I was next. So sad.

[Jimmmmm]

GHS

I thought I was next. So sad.

I'm attacking both ends, and it's easier to get player's done who have fewer posts. I might get Galz done tonight and then you first tomorrow.

[Jimmmmm]

players* ew

[Jimmmmm]

Galz.

In summary, Galz voted joth for the suggestion to no-lynch and for voting chairs for coming out against it (and said that votes on chairs were bad). He wanted to vote for MiX for making assumptions about scum using spheres, but conceded Town MiX also makes assumptions.

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I don't really buy arguments about scum coming out and making big plays early in the game. I think almost always the grand total of what scum wants from a Day is to come out of it intact and looking Towny, especially early on when there's so much uncertainty.

And something bugs me about this post. It's so... matter-of-fact. I guess it's the way he progresses from talking about his opinion on what happened, to his opinion about scum gains and Town gains, to his belief that faust is scum and made a scum move. "Scum gains more from outing PRs" and "faust is scum" are very different types of belief, but here they're presented in much the same way and read to me in much the same tone. Maybe it's just me and my aversion to stating any kind of certainty when it's not completely there, but I have a hard time seeing someone truly believing they've caught scum for something like this so early in the game.

So... I don't know. But I'm putting Galz down as a moderate scum read.

[MiX]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

Towncoring is establishing a bunch of townreads, around 1/3th of the game, publicly, and never considering they're scum for the rest of D1 in hopes that a lot of people do this so you find a group of players that everyone, including themselves, are townreading. That group becomes "town core", and now they can talk about other players among themselves and vote as a group, etc without risking being the lynch. It's a way to sort players by towniest instead of scummiest. It also seperates scum into "powerwolves", which is trying and being in the town core, and the rest, which can be useful.

It's not very useful, as starting from scumreads is better than from townreads. Overall it makes it pretty clear which scum are being lynched in order: you lynch low effort first. Our system's much better.

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

[Rhand]

The best system is a mix really. Figuring out who is not scum is just as important as figuring out who is.

[Rhand]

vote: GHS

[faust]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

Towncoring is establishing a bunch of townreads, around 1/3th of the game, publicly, and never considering they're scum for the rest of D1 in hopes that a lot of people do this so you find a group of players that everyone, including themselves, are townreading. That group becomes "town core", and now they can talk about other players among themselves and vote as a group, etc without risking being the lynch. It's a way to sort players by towniest instead of scummiest. It also seperates scum into "powerwolves", which is trying and being in the town core, and the rest, which can be useful.

It's not very useful, as starting from scumreads is better than from townreads. Overall it makes it pretty clear which scum are being lynched in order: you lynch low effort first. Our system's much better.

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

I disagree that starting from scumreads is better. It's much easier to find a bunch of people who are town for sure then it is to find scum. I'm not sure how it correlates to effort, I don't see a reason why low effort people cannot be in the "town core".

The main problem with this is you give scum all the data to find the most effective nightkill. It's better to talk about who you think is scummy, but it's still very good to think about who's towny.

[faust]

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

I like to think that Rhand's post is a reply to this:

vote: GHS

[MiX]

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

I like to think that Rhand's post is a reply to this:

vote: GHS

Not bad. I thought it was chairs, but he might be scum.

[faust]

Request prod on scolapasta

Request vote count

[2.71828.....]

Request prod on scolapasta

Request vote count

Prod sent

On mobile, will do one when I get home unless mail-mi does it first.

[mail-mi]

"I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?"

—Collected on Vevanev 1173, 107 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an out-of-work Veden sailor

Vote Count 1.5

jotheonah (1): hypercube
chairs (2): jotheonah, WestCoastDidds
GreatHallScout (1): Rhand
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
Glooble (2): LaLight, Dylan32
hypercube (3): EFHW, MiX, Glooble
Uncleeurope (2): chairs, cayvie
Dylan32 (1): faust

Not Voting (4): scolapasta, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, Swowl

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

[Glooble]

This is a mess. We need to consolidate.

[faust]

This is a mess. We need to consolidate.

Agreed. Let's lynch Dylan.

[scolapasta]

Hi all, sorry things got busy in the last couple of days - let me try to catch up tonight.

[hypercube]

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

Why does Town really need an answer to this question?

[hypercube]

I don't want to comment on things related to Eddie before Eddie does, but rereading the part of the game where Dylan claimed made him look a lot worse than I remembered.

He seems uninterested in the benefits of identifying a potential scum Dustbringer or inhibiting their ability to use their powers, like here:

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

I think that if a town!Dustbringer claimed here they would be more likely to want to force a claim from any other Dustbringers. They'd understand that the Dustbringer powers are pretty scum-sided and that since they're town an other Dustbringer is more likely to be scum.

Here he says he didn't considered the possibility of a scum Dustbringer at all:

Ooh, good point. Yeah, I think it would work that way. However, this is assuming that scum could roll this order. A scum with extra vig power does seem maybe unbalanced. And looking back, I don't see anything that says whether the alignment of individuals in a given order is random or assigned or random in limited fashion, only that the numbers in each are random.

He explains this oversight with a misunderstanding of the setup, which doesn't say that the numbers are random, just that they aren't uniform across the orders. It's certainly possible for someone to misread the setup, but less likely that they'd misread it again after going back to correct themself.

I also don't think that there was a pressing force for him to claim when he did; less than half of everyone had claimed at that point. If he had serious objections to claiming he had time to bring them up and be convinced that a scum Dustbringer could exist. I think it's more likely that he's scum and claimed in hopes that that would make him look towny.

vote: Dylan

Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.

[WestCoastDidds]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

Towncoring is establishing a bunch of townreads, around 1/3th of the game, publicly, and never considering they're scum for the rest of D1 in hopes that a lot of people do this so you find a group of players that everyone, including themselves, are townreading. That group becomes "town core", and now they can talk about other players among themselves and vote as a group, etc without risking being the lynch. It's a way to sort players by towniest instead of scummiest. It also seperates scum into "powerwolves", which is trying and being in the town core, and the rest, which can be useful.

It's not very useful, as starting from scumreads is better than from townreads. Overall it makes it pretty clear which scum are being lynched in order: you lynch low effort first. Our system's much better.

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

I think that is an interesting concept, if for no other reason than my town reads are stronger and more correct than my scum reads. In ADK's recent game, having a town core totally won us the day.

Sure seems like GHS or Dylan is the new Awa, although neither are Awaclusian. (also, Awa, come back. I miss you!)

[WestCoastDidds]

This is a mess. We need to consolidate.

We have three days, yeah?

[cayvie]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

MiX said it wrong.

Towncoring is a game-long strategy and outlook. It involves searching for mutual strong townreads, and using those to find a towncore of people who all mutually townread each other. Once you have that, everyone outside the core is considered the "Process of Elimination" or POE group and you lynch inside the POE.

The towncore's goal is to expand (by forming consensus that more and more players are town). There is a point at which the towncore reaches a certain size that, if it is accurate, victory becomes inevitable: the entire POE can be lynched one day at a time, and wolves are among it.

The issue is that so-called "deep wolves" can sneak into the towncore and stay there. So the issue can be, at some point, the towncore may start to doubt itself. And the decision becomes whether to stick to their guns and continue lynching the POE, or to reconsider the validity of the existing towncore.

[cayvie]

Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.

What's strange about my reaction?

I identified that future use of the Dustbringer Reporter ability could be used amongst a scumteam to fakeclaim Dustbringer if they wanted to for some reason. But I find it exceedingly unlikely that this is what happened with Dylan, today. That would take some intense scum planning for dubious benefit.

[WestCoastDidds]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

MiX said it wrong.

Towncoring is a game-long strategy and outlook. It involves searching for mutual strong townreads, and using those to find a towncore of people who all mutually townread each other. Once you have that, everyone outside the core is considered the "Process of Elimination" or POE group and you lynch inside the POE.

The towncore's goal is to expand (by forming consensus that more and more players are town). There is a point at which the towncore reaches a certain size that, if it is accurate, victory becomes inevitable: the entire POE can be lynched one day at a time, and wolves are among it.

The issue is that so-called "deep wolves" can sneak into the towncore and stay there. So the issue can be, at some point, the towncore may start to doubt itself. And the decision becomes whether to stick to their guns and continue lynching the POE, or to reconsider the validity of the existing towncore.

I can see this as a strategy that is particularly effective among certain players who tend to need trust to work collabroatively. Coolio!

[MiX]

Hypercube is scum, Dylan is town, faust has been wanting to kill Dustbringers for a while now, let's not forget about that. No idea what that makes him, but voting Dylan there is not a coincidence.

Also I was wrong about towncoring, I was worried I got everything correctly there.

I still hate the distinction between town core and PoE, we already do that organically, no reason to tell scum exactly who can be lynched in any given day.

[MiX]

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

Why does Town really need an answer to this question?

Why did you say this now, there's been at least 3 other people questioning this post.

[Rhand]

@Cayvie: I’m a bit surprised that you see that as a good tactic after our champs game where our abusing of the public town core gave us a sweep.

Have you seen it in effect at MU working out for town as well?

[hypercube]

Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.

What's strange about my reaction?

I identified that future use of the Dustbringer Reporter ability could be used amongst a scumteam to fakeclaim Dustbringer if they wanted to for some reason. But I find it exceedingly unlikely that this is what happened with Dylan, today. That would take some intense scum planning for dubious benefit.

You also pointed out that Dylan wasn't really in a position where he had to claim and that there were good reasons to treat Dustbringers differently from Skybreakers and Edgedancers. Those things seemed to throw significant shade on his claim, so I was a bit surprised you trusted it anyways.

[hypercube]

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

Why does Town really need an answer to this question?

Why did you say this now, there's been at least 3 other people questioning this post.

I just couldn't think of any possible reasoning why someone would think that question to be super important, so I wanted to ask directly for an explanation.

[MiX]

Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.

What's strange about my reaction?

I identified that future use of the Dustbringer Reporter ability could be used amongst a scumteam to fakeclaim Dustbringer if they wanted to for some reason. But I find it exceedingly unlikely that this is what happened with Dylan, today. That would take some intense scum planning for dubious benefit.

You also pointed out that Dylan wasn't really in a position where he had to claim and that there were good reasons to treat Dustbringers differently from Skybreakers and Edgedancers. Those things seemed to throw significant shade on his claim, so I was a bit surprised you trusted it anyways.

Do you think he's not a Dustbringer?

[hypercube]

Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.

What's strange about my reaction?

I identified that future use of the Dustbringer Reporter ability could be used amongst a scumteam to fakeclaim Dustbringer if they wanted to for some reason. But I find it exceedingly unlikely that this is what happened with Dylan, today. That would take some intense scum planning for dubious benefit.

You also pointed out that Dylan wasn't really in a position where he had to claim and that there were good reasons to treat Dustbringers differently from Skybreakers and Edgedancers. Those things seemed to throw significant shade on his claim, so I was a bit surprised you trusted it anyways.

Do you think he's not a Dustbringer?

If he's scum it's possible he's not a Dustbringer and someone else on the scum team is. That's less likely than him just being a scum Dustbringer though.

[MiX]

I don't see why cayvie can't throw shade and not scumread Dylan at the same time. I'm also fairly confident Dylan didn't have 50 infused spheres so he couldn't do anything useful anyway. I don't understand why people are scumreading Dylan besides not fullclaiming to Uncle (because that I would understand). He claimed, he spent stormlight, scum does it too...it feels like it's obfuscating anyone from having a real read on him.

[faust]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

MiX said it wrong.

Towncoring is a game-long strategy and outlook. It involves searching for mutual strong townreads, and using those to find a towncore of people who all mutually townread each other. Once you have that, everyone outside the core is considered the "Process of Elimination" or POE group and you lynch inside the POE.

The towncore's goal is to expand (by forming consensus that more and more players are town). There is a point at which the towncore reaches a certain size that, if it is accurate, victory becomes inevitable: the entire POE can be lynched one day at a time, and wolves are among it.

The issue is that so-called "deep wolves" can sneak into the towncore and stay there. So the issue can be, at some point, the towncore may start to doubt itself. And the decision becomes whether to stick to their guns and continue lynching the POE, or to reconsider the validity of the existing towncore.

Oh okay. Well it doesn't seem particularly useful still.

[faust]

I don't see why cayvie can't throw shade and not scumread Dylan at the same time. I'm also fairly confident Dylan didn't have 50 infused spheres so he couldn't do anything useful anyway. I don't understand why people are scumreading Dylan besides not fullclaiming to Uncle (because that I would understand). He claimed, he spent stormlight, scum does it too...it feels like it's obfuscating anyone from having a real read on him.

Not claiming to Eddie is by miles the bestest alignment indicating thing that happened all game.

Plus cayvie was suspecting me for throwing shade at her and not scumreading her, would be a little disingenuous if she did the same thing.

[MiX]

I don't see why cayvie can't throw shade and not scumread Dylan at the same time. I'm also fairly confident Dylan didn't have 50 infused spheres so he couldn't do anything useful anyway. I don't understand why people are scumreading Dylan besides not fullclaiming to Uncle (because that I would understand). He claimed, he spent stormlight, scum does it too...it feels like it's obfuscating anyone from having a real read on him.

Not claiming to Eddie is by miles the bestest alignment indicating thing that happened all game.

Plus cayvie was suspecting me for throwing shade at her and not scumreading her, would be a little disingenuous if she did the same thing.

I think town's as scared as scum when it comes to third-parties. Which I guess would mean that he's 50/50 scum, which are good odds...hmm.

I might have to reread him.

[faust]

I think town's as scared as scum when it comes to third-parties. Which I guess would mean that he's 50/50 scum, which are good odds...hmm.

I think town's as likely as scum to post at 21:53:49. Which I guess would mean that you're 50/50 scum, which are good odds... hmm.

[faust]

I think town's as scared as scum when it comes to third-parties. Which I guess would mean that he's 50/50 scum, which are good odds...hmm.

I think town's as likely as scum to post at 21:53:49. Which I guess would mean that you're 50/50 scum, which are good odds... hmm.

Sorry, I used my timestamp, should have used the time tag.

[faust]

But more importantly, what do you think town!Dylan was scared of?

[MiX]

But more importantly, what do you think town!Dylan was scared of?

Death.

[MiX]

I think town's as scared as scum when it comes to third-parties. Which I guess would mean that he's 50/50 scum, which are good odds...hmm.

I think town's as likely as scum to post at 21:53:49. Which I guess would mean that you're 50/50 scum, which are good odds... hmm.

Town's more likely than scum to post at (insert time here).

[Glooble]

But more importantly, what do you think town!Dylan was scared of?

Death.

Death is scarier if you’re scum than if you’re town. Obviously. But also can’t fault a player for wanting to continue playing past day one. And also to not have town lose access to his vig shot.

[MiX]

But more importantly, what do you think town!Dylan was scared of?

Death.

Death is scarier if you’re scum than if you’re town. Obviously. But also can’t fault a player for wanting to continue playing past day one. And also to not have town lose access to his vig shot.

He doesn't have a vig shot.

[cayvie]

I don't see why cayvie can't throw shade and not scumread Dylan at the same time. I'm also fairly confident Dylan didn't have 50 infused spheres so he couldn't do anything useful anyway. I don't understand why people are scumreading Dylan besides not fullclaiming to Uncle (because that I would understand). He claimed, he spent stormlight, scum does it too...it feels like it's obfuscating anyone from having a real read on him.

Not claiming to Eddie is by miles the bestest alignment indicating thing that happened all game.

Plus cayvie was suspecting me for throwing shade at her and not scumreading her, would be a little disingenuous if she did the same thing.

What? I was suspecting you for throwing shade at me in response to my case on GHS.

Felt like you were defending GHS by discrediting the attacker, instead of engaging with the case on GHS.

[MiX]

I've argued against him enough.

Vote: Dylan, why did you tell scum you don't have a vig shot?

[cayvie]

@Cayvie: I’m a bit surprised that you see that as a good tactic after our champs game where our abusing of the public town core gave us a sweep.

Have you seen it in effect at MU working out for town as well?

Rhand, I think it is a strategy that will likely work much better with a higher level of overall quality of participation.

I have seen it work, though not in champs qualifiers. I suspect it will be the dominant strategy in semis.

[Glooble]

But more importantly, what do you think town!Dylan was scared of?

Death.

Death is scarier if you’re scum than if you’re town. Obviously. But also can’t fault a player for wanting to continue playing past day one. And also to not have town lose access to his vig shot.

He doesn't have a vig shot.

How do you know that?

[MiX]

But more importantly, what do you think town!Dylan was scared of?

Death.

Death is scarier if you’re scum than if you’re town. Obviously. But also can’t fault a player for wanting to continue playing past day one. And also to not have town lose access to his vig shot.

He doesn't have a vig shot.

How do you know that?

If you started with at least 65 infused spheres, would you spend 15 stormlight telling everyone you're a vig? Me neither.

[Glooble]

But more importantly, what do you think town!Dylan was scared of?

Death.

Death is scarier if you’re scum than if you’re town. Obviously. But also can’t fault a player for wanting to continue playing past day one. And also to not have town lose access to his vig shot.

He doesn't have a vig shot.

How do you know that?

If you started with at least 65 infused spheres, would you spend 15 stormlight telling everyone you're a vig? Me neither.

Based on my own stormlight allocation it doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility that Dylan would have enough for both powers. But even if he didn’t, stormlight can be recharged.

[MiX]

Based on my own stormlight allocation it doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility that Dylan would have enough for both powers. But even if he didn’t, stormlight can be recharged.

If you were a vig with at least 65 infused spheres, you use your vig shot N1 and then pay the thievery service to get a second vig. There's no world you do anything other than that.

Let's face it: what did Dylan gain by spending 15 spheres? He could've just said he had that ability, and then he would be counterclaimed if he was lying. Instead he spent 15 stormlight for nothing.

Maybe this makes no sense as any alignment.

[Glooble]

Based on my own stormlight allocation it doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility that Dylan would have enough for both powers. But even if he didn’t, stormlight can be recharged.

If you were a vig with at least 65 infused spheres, you use your vig shot N1 and then pay the thievery service to get a second vig. There's no world you do anything other than that.

Let's face it: what did Dylan gain by spending 15 spheres? He could've just said he had that ability, and then he would be counterclaimed if he was lying. Instead he spent 15 stormlight for nothing.

Maybe this makes no sense as any alignment.

Yeah, you make a fair point. Like, you have a tendency to say "A player in this position would always do this" When what you really mean is "I would do this in this position" but in this case you're right, Dylan's logic is weird.

vote: Dylan

[Glooble]

I was townreading him early day but the combination of his story of his conversation with Eddie and his mod post doesn't add up to a town narrative I can figure out. Like, to me, the only reason not to take Eddie's deal as town is thinking your role is more valuable, but if you think your role is valuable, why claim and why claim in a way that uses up stormlight?

[MiX]

Based on my own stormlight allocation it doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility that Dylan would have enough for both powers. But even if he didn’t, stormlight can be recharged.

If you were a vig with at least 65 infused spheres, you use your vig shot N1 and then pay the thievery service to get a second vig. There's no world you do anything other than that.

Let's face it: what did Dylan gain by spending 15 spheres? He could've just said he had that ability, and then he would be counterclaimed if he was lying. Instead he spent 15 stormlight for nothing.

Maybe this makes no sense as any alignment.

Yeah, you make a fair point. Like, you have a tendency to say "A player in this position would always do this" When what you really mean is "I would do this in this position" but in this case you're right, Dylan's logic is weird.

vote: Dylan

For this game and the future: I'm incredibly bad at knowing what people would do in a given situation, so I just give my perspective on the situation and wait for people to say why they wouldn't do the same.

PPE: My problem with all of this is it doesn't make sense regardless of his alignment. Why would he choose to do what he has done if he wants to win? WIFOM?

[Dylan32]

I didn't spend 15 on the reporter ability, it was 5. I'll be back with more thoughts later

[Rhand]

@Cayvie: ok. It is a tactic that works.

Based on my own stormlight allocation it doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility that Dylan would have enough for both powers. But even if he didn’t, stormlight can be recharged.

If you were a vig with at least 65 infused spheres, you use your vig shot N1 and then pay the thievery service to get a second vig. There's no world you do anything other than that.

Let's face it: what did Dylan gain by spending 15 spheres? He could've just said he had that ability, and then he would be counterclaimed if he was lying. Instead he spent 15 stormlight for nothing.

Maybe this makes no sense as any alignment.

Did he say the cost for that message is 15? That’s expensive for just a message.
It’s weird. If I had a role that can be proven publicly, I would not have used it in the claim. He lost the shot of counterclaiming now.
But I fail to see why it makes him scum. Using it is not optimal as either alignment.

[Rhand]

I didn't spend 15 on the reporter ability, it was 5. I'll be back with more thoughts later

Oh. Makes more sense.

[MiX]

Vote: hypercube

[MiX]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

This was a contradiction when I saw it and it's a contradiction now.

Dylan what's your win condition?

Vote: Dylan

[Dylan32]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

This was a contradiction when I saw it and it's a contradiction now.

Dylan what's your win condition?

Vote: Dylan

I don't see what you see as a contradiction. I did say surge when I meant order, but if I had used the right word, then there was no contradiction there.

[MiX]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

This was a contradiction when I saw it and it's a contradiction now.

Dylan what's your win condition?

Vote: Dylan

I don't see what you see as a contradiction. I did say surge when I meant order, but if I had used the right word, then there was no contradiction there.

But there's no "ninja/drain" surge. There's a vig/drain surge, and a ninja surge. And a Dustbringer would know that.

[Dylan32]

2 orders that give access to the vig surge and 2 orders that give access to the ninja surge, which is true.

And as for my wincon, I'm town, and since quoting is forbidden, I win when all threats to town are gone.

ppe 1

[Dylan32]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

This was a contradiction when I saw it and it's a contradiction now.

Dylan what's your win condition?

Vote: Dylan

I don't see what you see as a contradiction. I did say surge when I meant order, but if I had used the right word, then there was no contradiction there.

But there's no "ninja/drain" surge. There's a vig/drain surge, and a ninja surge. And a Dustbringer would know that.

Obviously I'm biased since I know what I'm about to say is what happened. But don't you think that a real dustbringer (who has access to all the abilities) would be more likely to confuse which surge his possible powers come from as opposed to someone who had to look closely at the surges to in order to plan a fakeclaim?

[Dylan32]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

This was a contradiction when I saw it and it's a contradiction now.

Dylan what's your win condition?

Vote: Dylan

I don't see what you see as a contradiction. I did say surge when I meant order, but if I had used the right word, then there was no contradiction there.

But there's no "ninja/drain" surge. There's a vig/drain surge, and a ninja surge. And a Dustbringer would know that.

Obviously I'm biased since I know what I'm about to say is what happened. But don't you think that a real dustbringer (who has access to all the abilities) would be more likely to confuse which surge his possible powers come from as opposed to someone who had to look closely at the surges to in order to plan a fakeclaim?

After all, the surge info is all public info, so that's something that someone is more likely to mess up after reading the two surges at the same time in their QT at the beginning of the game than someone who is deciding "is this something I want to fake, so what do I need to know here."

[Dylan32]

Based on my own stormlight allocation it doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility that Dylan would have enough for both powers. But even if he didn’t, stormlight can be recharged.

If you were a vig with at least 65 infused spheres, you use your vig shot N1 and then pay the thievery service to get a second vig. There's no world you do anything other than that.

Let's face it: what did Dylan gain by spending 15 spheres? He could've just said he had that ability, and then he would be counterclaimed if he was lying. Instead he spent 15 stormlight for nothing.

Maybe this makes no sense as any alignment.

There are so many assumptions in this post, it's not even funny. Let's run them down:
1) at least 65 infused spheres
2) able to afford vig shot N1
-----
tangent: What do you mean pay the thievery service? Stealing is a free action, and unless you have a special power that I don't know about, you almost certainly wouldn't get enough from stealing from 1 person to afford a 2nd vig shot. A role power to pay to steal that much from other people sounds like an almost certainly anti-town ability.
-----
3) No world you do anything else (people do less than ideal actions all the time, especially me as I have established many times over).
4) I spent 15 spheres (wrong)
5) I already said all the reasons I chose to do it in a previous post, so saying I had nothing to gain is just wrong.

[Dylan32]

Actually, with the thieving service (which is a phrase that doesn't appear in any public descriptions or flavor), I think that's actually a scum slip and Vote: MiX

[Glooble]

Actually, with the thieving service (which is a phrase that doesn't appear in any public descriptions or flavor), I think that's actually a scum slip and Vote: MiX

He was pretty clearly talking about the protection service.

[Glooble]

The sphere protection program.

[cayvie]

Dustbringers can compose a message up to 500 characters that the mod will include in bold in their next post. If I had been on and seen Faust's post before more people had already went along with the plan, I'd have pushed back against it. As it is, I would have been able to tell if people lied once they fake claimed it once they couldn't actually use this ability. I guess it would have been hard to communicate that without claiming anyway, so I don't know. I'm pretty salty and don't think people would have gone along with that if anyone other than Faust proposed it... Also, there are 2 surges that give access to the vig surge and to the ninja/drain surge. Why not just have all 3 surges claim. I get that ninja vig would be really bad, but it takes quite a few spheres to do each, and it would likely take long enough to have both available the same night (including having to steal) that it wasn't likely to happen, at the very least not for a few days.

This was a contradiction when I saw it and it's a contradiction now.

Dylan what's your win condition?

Vote: Dylan

I don't see what you see as a contradiction. I did say surge when I meant order, but if I had used the right word, then there was no contradiction there.

But there's no "ninja/drain" surge. There's a vig/drain surge, and a ninja surge. And a Dustbringer would know that.

Wait, you think Dylan is lying about being a dust bringer?

[Dylan32]

The sphere protection program.

Well if that's the case, he was still assuming the number of spheres that I have and implying based on that (incorrect) assumption, that I didn't do the only reasonable thing. Well, so many of his assumptions that I laid out were wrong that his conclusions are also very wrong. I won't say more because doing so gives scum too much info about me.

[MiX]

What I called a contradiction is actually proof Dylan's town. I rest my case.

Vote: hypercube

[MiX]

The sphere protection program.

Well if that's the case, he was still assuming the number of spheres that I have and implying based on that (incorrect) assumption, that I didn't do the only reasonable thing. Well, so many of his assumptions that I laid out were wrong that his conclusions are also very wrong. I won't say more because doing so gives scum too much info about me.

I just assumed the reporter ability cost 15 for...some reason. That muddied my conclusions. Using the Reporter ability is now NAI instead of just a bad play regardless of alignment.

What I was saying is that by spending 15 spheres you would be signaling you couldn't vig, because if you could vig then you wouldn't spent 15 spheres. Obviously this is wrong if it costs less.

[Dylan32]

To circle back to a different topic, people (maybe faust) made comments like there's no pro-town reason to not claim to Eddie, even if it's a claim, die, replaced scenario. There is.

Eddie said he gets the wincon of the claimer, he didn't say anything about the abilities. In fact I think it's unlikely that he would start the game as not a knight radiant and then become one later, even if he does kill the person who claims to take their spot. So taking a town-controlled kill out of the game would not be pro-town, and thus is a good reason for me NOT to be the person that recruits Eddie.

ppe 2

[Dylan32]

The sphere protection program.

Well if that's the case, he was still assuming the number of spheres that I have and implying based on that (incorrect) assumption, that I didn't do the only reasonable thing. Well, so many of his assumptions that I laid out were wrong that his conclusions are also very wrong. I won't say more because doing so gives scum too much info about me.

I just assumed the reporter ability cost 15 for...some reason. That muddied my conclusions. Using the Reporter ability is now NAI instead of just a bad play regardless of alignment.

What I was saying is that by spending 15 spheres you would be signaling you couldn't vig, because if you could vig then you wouldn't spent 15 spheres. Obviously this is wrong if it costs less.

Understatement of the game haha

[Dylan32]

Actually, with the thieving service (which is a phrase that doesn't appear in any public descriptions or flavor), I think that's actually a scum slip and Vote: MiX

He was pretty clearly talking about the protection service.

I was busy replying to content a second ago and just realized, this is some nice white knighting you're doing here.

[MiX]

To circle back to a different topic, people (maybe faust) made comments like there's no pro-town reason to not claim to Eddie, even if it's a claim, die, replaced scenario. There is.

Eddie said he gets the wincon of the claimer, he didn't say anything about the abilities. In fact I think it's unlikely that he would start the game as not a knight radiant and then become one later, even if he does kill the person who claims to take their spot. So taking a town-controlled kill out of the game would not be pro-town, and thus is a good reason for me NOT to be the person that recruits Eddie.

ppe 2

Really? My first assumption was that he was a Squire.

Actually, with the thieving service (which is a phrase that doesn't appear in any public descriptions or flavor), I think that's actually a scum slip and Vote: MiX

He was pretty clearly talking about the protection service.

I was busy replying to content a second ago and just realized, this is some nice white knighting you're doing here.

Gimme a break, people trying to understand what I mean is NAI. I'm pretty confusing.

[Jimmmmm]

faust

There are a lot more note-worthy posts here than for other re-reads. I have them saved if I need to use them down the track, but I'm not going to use them now; I'll just give my overall thoughts.


I'd like to know why faust is scumreading and calling for votes on EFHW. Is that still a thing?

I'm not convinced that the Dustbringer thing was pro-Town, but I don't think it makes faust scummy.

faust's feeling on Galz, cayvie and the GHS wagon are somewhat similar to mine.

I need to better understand the whole Eddie/Dylan thing.


Overall I would put faust as moderately Towny. I'm not sure I would ever fully trust him because I think he's more than capable of seeming very Towny as scum, but I'm not interesting in lynching him Today.

[Glooble]

MiX, I don’t follow your sudden change of heart on Dylan.

[Glooble]

To circle back to a different topic, people (maybe faust) made comments like there's no pro-town reason to not claim to Eddie, even if it's a claim, die, replaced scenario. There is.

Eddie said he gets the wincon of the claimer, he didn't say anything about the abilities. In fact I think it's unlikely that he would start the game as not a knight radiant and then become one later, even if he does kill the person who claims to take their spot. So taking a town-controlled kill out of the game would not be pro-town, and thus is a good reason for me NOT to be the person that recruits Eddie.

ppe 2

This is what I was trying to say earlier.

[MiX]

MiX, I don’t follow your sudden change of heart on Dylan.

Without a mechanical result on Dylan, which I tried to find and failed, I think he's townie for using 5 stormlight to do nothing. As town he has no use for it, as scum he might.

[Dylan32]

MiX, I don’t follow your sudden change of heart on Dylan.

My guess is that he realized I was right that a real dustbringer is more likely to make the specific mistake he saw than someone who was lying about it.

[Dylan32]

MiX, I don’t follow your sudden change of heart on Dylan.

My guess is that he realized I was right that a real dustbringer is more likely to make the specific mistake he saw than someone who was lying about it.

Or not. I wonder how your last post showed up without me seeing a ppe

[MiX]

MiX, I don’t follow your sudden change of heart on Dylan.

My guess is that he realized I was right that a real dustbringer is more likely to make the specific mistake he saw than someone who was lying about it.

I mean, yes, and then I realized there can be scum dustbringers...then I came up with the reasoning I gave Glooble. I was townreading you before, so after my accusations are proven to be baseless I still think you're town. Overall the way you defended yourself was NAI, sadly.

[Glooble]

Ok I’m also going back to

Vote: hypercube

[EFHW]

Have we heard from Eddie about Dylan's report on their QT? I'd like to hear what he has to say about it.

I'm very confused about Dylan saying he didn't full claim to Eddie. What is left to claim? Was there more Eddie wanted included?

Someone just suggested Eddie could be a squire. That's a good idea, but I think it's pretty clear he is Wit. I said as much and Eddie confirmed it. Wit is the king's insulter in chief. In the books he is pretty clearly aligned with good and I wouldn't expect him to have nefarious powers. Maybe Wit is his fake-claim and that's the reason for all the rhyming?

[EFHW]

Eddie did the QT thing two times. Who did he contact the first time around?

[MiX]

Have we heard from Eddie about Dylan's report on their QT? I'd like to hear what he has to say about it.

I'm very confused about Dylan saying he didn't full claim to Eddie. What is left to claim? Was there more Eddie wanted included?

Someone just suggested Eddie could be a squire. That's a good idea, but I think it's pretty clear he is Wit. I said as much and Eddie confirmed it. Wit is the king's insulter in chief. In the books he is pretty clearly aligned with good and I wouldn't expect him to have nefarious powers. Maybe Wit is his fake-claim and that's the reason for all the rhyming?

I'm fairly certain he denied it...although I would have to go back and check. We don't actually know much about his powers, so he could be faking that he's a bard.

Eddie did the QT thing two times. Who did he contact the first time around?

Me.

[MiX]

Nice details mail-mi!

Sounds like Eddie is claiming Wit, a mysterious fellow who also goes by Hoid and appears in all the cosmere books, not just this series.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

The little man gave an exaggerated act of embarrassment.

"It seems that my reputation hath extended its way into your mind. Although, I must say, many of those writings approach legend more-so than fact. Primarily because I have not read them, and am making no attempt to recreate the character depicted in them."

He can still be Wit, but it seems he's denying knowing what that is.

[EFHW]

oh! Did he ask you to full claim so he could join your alignment?

PPE: I read that as a confirmation. I guess it could be interpreted either way.

[MiX]

oh! Did he ask you to full claim so he could join your alignment?

PPE: I read that as a confirmation. I guess it could be interpreted either way.

Sadly no.

Interesting. In any other circumstance I would argue endlessly how that cannot be seen as a confirmation, and yet the response is weird for someone that knows nothing.

[WestCoastDidds]

Eddie did the QT thing two times. Who did he contact the first time around?

Me. In the first 24 hours of the game day.

He asked questions, but said nothing about the information allowing him to do anything. I did not answer all of his questions because I wasn’t sure I could trust him. He said he can talk to anyone, but only one at a time.

I think there have been more targets than just me and Dylan. When he told people to check their QTs the first time,  I had already spoken with him.

[EFHW]

What did he want to know?

[WestCoastDidds]

What did he want to know?

House and order, so a full claim, I guess

[MiX]

To give a better understandment of when things happened, I had a QT when he specifically said QT for the first time. So definitely after Didds.

[MiX]

What did he want to know?

Information in exchange of services. The rest is private.

[WestCoastDidds]

I figured you were next!

[MiX]

I figured you were next!

To be fair I should've known he'd contact you first.

[WestCoastDidds]

I figured you were next!

To be fair I should've known he'd contact you first.

I’m not known for being tight lipped...

[Dylan32]

What did he want to know?

Information in exchange of services. The rest is private.

This is also how it was originally framed when my QT started with him. If he started the same way, he might have offered you a very specific piece of information.  I'm not asking either of you to share the info, but did he tell you that info?

Knowing what I guess the 3 of us know, you know you could get him back and claim. So if you think that it's truly in town's best interest, you could still do so unless whoever he visited after leaving me (which happened before I brought it up in the game thread) already has. I'm still not sure (pending the risks I mentioned earlier, whether they're likely or not) that I should be the one to do it.

[faust]

What did he want to know?

Information in exchange of services. The rest is private.

This is also how it was originally framed when my QT started with him. If he started the same way, he might have offered you a very specific piece of information.  I'm not asking either of you to share the info, but did he tell you that info?

Knowing what I guess the 3 of us know, you know you could get him back and claim. So if you think that it's truly in town's best interest, you could still do so unless whoever he visited after leaving me (which happened before I brought it up in the game thread) already has. I'm still not sure (pending the risks I mentioned earlier, whether they're likely or not) that I should be the one to do it.

You are vastly overestimating the importance of your role. For town, your order is the weakest in the game.

[scolapasta]

Wow, that took me a while to finally catch up. And now I'll go to bed and wake up to several more.

So we know Eddie can contact people through QTs during the day. Does this cost him stormlight? (my assumption is yes)
So far he's contacted at least 3: mix, didds, dylan. which means, if assumption correct, that he has chosen to spend stormlight for at least three of these on day 1.

And he seems to be actively seeking a claim from each.

What would his win condition be before hearing a full claim? It just seems like he very much wants to get someone to claim asap.

And apparently those he's contacted can call him back up.

[Swowl]

I didn't spend 15 on the reporter ability, it was 5. I'll be back with more thoughts later

Oh. Makes more sense.

How does it make more sense? It could be 15, 5, or 0... they told the town they were a vig. The town does not know if they are skum or not. They, if they are town, told skum they are vig, so now skum knows they are vig. It isn't like being a vig makes you town.
Forget what skum would gain of it by doing it... what is the positive scenario in your head for Town!Dylan doing it?

[Swowl]

The main problem with this is you give scum all the data to find the most effective nightkill. It's better to talk about who you think is scummy, but it's still very good to think about who's towny.

How is your vig claim idea not the exact middle ground of what you are saying is bad here?

[cayvie]

What did he want to know?

Information in exchange of services. The rest is private.

This is also how it was originally framed when my QT started with him. If he started the same way, he might have offered you a very specific piece of information.  I'm not asking either of you to share the info, but did he tell you that info?

Knowing what I guess the 3 of us know, you know you could get him back and claim. So if you think that it's truly in town's best interest, you could still do so unless whoever he visited after leaving me (which happened before I brought it up in the game thread) already has. I'm still not sure (pending the risks I mentioned earlier, whether they're likely or not) that I should be the one to do it.

You are vastly overestimating the importance of your role. For town, your order is the weakest in the game.

Here we agree.

[Swowl]

The main problem with this is you give scum all the data to find the most effective nightkill. It's better to talk about who you think is scummy, but it's still very good to think about who's towny.

How is your vig claim idea not the exact middle ground of what you are saying is bad here?

Also, I just don't get the utility of your claim-vig idea here. I get the part where skum is boxed out because they claim not vig... but then why not just make it a "claim not vig" plan? why out the vig?

[Swowl]

What did he want to know?

Information in exchange of services. The rest is private.

This is also how it was originally framed when my QT started with him. If he started the same way, he might have offered you a very specific piece of information.  I'm not asking either of you to share the info, but did he tell you that info?

Knowing what I guess the 3 of us know, you know you could get him back and claim. So if you think that it's truly in town's best interest, you could still do so unless whoever he visited after leaving me (which happened before I brought it up in the game thread) already has. I'm still not sure (pending the risks I mentioned earlier, whether they're likely or not) that I should be the one to do it.

You are vastly overestimating the importance of your role. For town, your order is the weakest in the game.

Here we agree.

weakest for town. scariest for skum. and potentially the extremely useful. But NOT if skum knows who you are from day 1

[cayvie]

Swowl I think we just fundamentally disagree on night action tactics; I think the vig is priced too high to be particularly useful to town here.

I'm unsure why you think it particularly matters if scum knows who the vig is.

[faust]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

[Swowl]

Swowl I think we just fundamentally disagree on night action tactics; I think the vig is priced too high to be particularly useful to town here.

I'm unsure why you think it particularly matters if scum knows who the vig is.

That is fair, we could disagree. I fudementally believe that Town Vig is almost always a negative utility role to town in the hands of someone who does not know how to use it. By that, to be frank, I mean to be smart enough to accept that holding the shot is almost always the correct play for late game since the potential of it not being used early is almost always going to be worse for town than the chance of never getting to use it at all.

I always think of vig as a sort of snapdragon flower in a sense. It exists, and it can be awesome... but when you pick at it, or hold it... it dies. Kind of like the value of a Town Vig early in the game. Actually especially in this game, as their ability is based not on X-amount of shots, but on the stormwind they spend.

So like for an example, Vig stays quiet, does whatever else they can do instead until the role become "viable" then, at that point, they claim.
It can be neg utility, or too expensive, or whatever you want to call it in this game. But fact of the matter is, if Dylan is town, it would be better if skum did NOT know they were the vig.

PPE 1

[cayvie]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

[faust]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

[cayvie]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

I think I see what you see, but I'm not convinced it's a slip? At least, if we see the same thing, that's gonna change some assumptions.

[Rhand]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

How is that a scumslip? I’m not seeing it.

[faust]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

How is that a scumslip? I’m not seeing it.

If I were to claim House and order, it would not be a fullclaim, and I expect the same to be true for other townies.

[Rhand]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

How is that a scumslip? I’m not seeing it.

If I were to claim House and order, it would not be a fullclaim, and I expect the same to be true for other townies.

I figured that’s what you meant. Don’t you think that’s true for mafia too though?

[faust]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

How is that a scumslip? I’m not seeing it.

If I were to claim House and order, it would not be a fullclaim, and I expect the same to be true for other townies.

I figured that’s what you meant. Don’t you think that’s true for mafia too though?

Yes but mafia wouldn't think it's true for town, so when fakeclaiming they would act like their only powers were from their order.

[Rhand]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

How is that a scumslip? I’m not seeing it.

If I were to claim House and order, it would not be a fullclaim, and I expect the same to be true for other townies.

I figured that’s what you meant. Don’t you think that’s true for mafia too though?

Yes but mafia wouldn't think it's true for town, so when fakeclaiming they would act like their only powers were from their order.

Hm we already have the dustbringer power proven and it’s very clear in the role pm that the extra power belongs to the order. I think his post is NAI.

But you’re town, that’s at least something.

[faust]

Vote: Didds

She scumslipped.

post 800?

Indeed.

How is that a scumslip? I’m not seeing it.

If I were to claim House and order, it would not be a fullclaim, and I expect the same to be true for other townies.

I figured that’s what you meant. Don’t you think that’s true for mafia too though?

Yes but mafia wouldn't think it's true for town, so when fakeclaiming they would act like their only powers were from their order.

Hm we already have the dustbringer power proven and it’s very clear in the role pm that the extra power belongs to the order. I think his post is NAI.

But you’re town, that’s at least something.

... are you talking about Dylan? Because I'm not.

[Rhand]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

[Jimmmmm]

Alright... time to try to interpret our friend the Bard.

Oh, My trade is that of a lowly knave,
And this path of mine seeks not to be brave,
While poverty I am naught to savor,
Worry I not, I have the King’s favor.

I think someone said this was a 3rd party claim? Seems unlikely. I guess if anything it's some kind of breadcrumb to be referred to later, but I'm not really interested in trying to interpret it.

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

The small man who called himself Paul stared quizzically at the overly active polyhedral.

"I must say, this leap in logic is one that I find most comical, and in many ways warrants action on my part."

He strummed his lute once and let the tone fade to nothingness before saying in a clear voice: Vote: Hypercube

Even if hypercube's vote isn't a joke (Cults aren't a thing in non-Bastard games),  I don't think it's scummy.

Vote: Glooble

Presumably this is for Glooble's response to faust's Dustbringer plan?

"Glooble is likely scum, MiX is not."

I just find it odd that a an opinion on me swiveled so drastically based in such an innocuous and flimsy case.

I get the sense that this interaction is a symptom of Eddie's style of posting.

And I can safely say Glooble for now

I guess the confidence here is a joke? Would like to hear why.

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

A fair point, my good man, and one that I shall happily cede to thou for the time being, as well as taking this time to talk to MiX as requested.

What's a fair point? "He's being hella towny" is an unsubstantiated opinion, not a point, and you made zero points about why he was scummy.

I believe Glooble and EFHW are the only people who have said (something) more than twelve times that I have a care to be suspicious of, which makes me more wary of other names overall.

Even with the amendment, I don't understand this sentence.

I feel like poking at some of the more quiet folk and testing their reactions. Hypercube is my first instinct, but I typically find mixed merit in poking at people that provide questionable cases. Either they are searching for a logical scum tell as scum, or not thinking things through as town, so the accusation of Cult Leader baffled me a bit.

I thought the accusation was a joke, and taking it seriously is somewhat baffling.

I think pointing towards a Vote: Pasta holds the most promise?

Why?

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

Our antihero doth speak truth, I cannot fathom this case, perchance I am missing a key element to the argument regarding his behavior?

This seems a pointless post when you haven't provided reasons for most of your reads.


So... I need to go over Dylan again to understand that interaction.  But otherwise there really isn't much to be said about Eddie. Voting without giving reasons is mildly scummy, but otherwise his style to me makes him impossible to read. As much as he might be enjoying it, if it's not already anti-Town it will be soon. Unless he starts being clearer, I would gladly join a lynch on him if for no other reason than to make the game easier to figure out.

[faust]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

[Rhand]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

[faust]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

I'm not arguing that the special order power is what Didds ignored as being part of a fullclaim, I'm arguing that she forgot that you can have powers completely unrelated to your order.

You're not looking too good here either.

[faust]

Actually,

Vote: Rhand

[Rhand]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

I'm not arguing that the special order power is what Didds ignored as being part of a fullclaim, I'm arguing that she forgot that you can have powers completely unrelated to your order.

You're not looking too good here either.

You can have powers unrelated to your order? What even are you talking about?

[LaLight]

I don't see this as a scumslip per se.

if Glooble isn't happening, I'd vote: Eddie then.

[LaLight]

we can afford 3rd party lynch, given that this night we will have a bit of results

[Glooble]

I also don’t have any powers unrelated to my order. I don’t think this is alignment indicative. I would have made the same assumption as Didds.

[MiX]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

I'm not arguing that the special order power is what Didds ignored as being part of a fullclaim, I'm arguing that she forgot that you can have powers completely unrelated to your order.

You're not looking too good here either.

...does anyone else have powers outside the Order?

PPE: I completely agree.

[Glooble]

Faust, if you are town I think you’re making an assumption that something in your QT applies to all town when it doesn’t.

[EFHW]

Didds didn't say she was describing what a full claim is, she gave two questions that Eddie asked.

All three of Eddie's neighbors are being oddly coy with information about what happened. 

[EFHW]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

Scumslip here? Or 3rd party slip? Knowing someone's order does not tell you the special power that goes with it.

[MiX]

Didds didn't say she was describing what a full claim is, she gave two questions that Eddie asked.

All three of Eddie's neighbors are being oddly coy with information about what happened.

So are the others that probably exist that haven't claimed as such. The Eddie business is a tricky one.

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

Scumslip here? Or 3rd party slip? Knowing someone's order does not tell you the special power that goes with it.

That's a nothing-slip. I'll let Rhand explain.

[EFHW]

Didds didn't say she was describing what a full claim is, she gave two questions that Eddie asked.

All three of Eddie's neighbors are being oddly coy with information about what happened.

Scratch that first part. I think faust is right that something slipped in her post. It seems like a mistake a non-knight would make.

I do want us to pursue the second part. Why wouldn't a town!neighbor tell us the whole story of what Eddie wanted?

vote: MiX.

Ppe: Still want to vote MiX.

[MiX]

I don't want to lynch him, and thus I don't think it helps town to know everything Uncle wants.

We're not going to catch scum D2 if we spend D1 lynching him, and he's a good scumhunter, I'd rather keep him around.

[EFHW]

I'm not saying lynch Eddie,  I'm asking why the three of you are holding information back.

[MiX]

I'm not saying lynch Eddie,  I'm asking why the three of you are holding information back.

The information's much less useful if said publicly. It's only useful as a trick, something scum doesn't expect.

I also don't want to tell them how much I've shared with Uncle and vice-versa.

For what it's worth, he only asked for my Order in his opening posts, not my House.

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm not saying lynch Eddie,  I'm asking why the three of you are holding information back.

The information's much less useful if said publicly. It's only useful as a trick, something scum doesn't expect.

I also don't want to tell them how much I've shared with Uncle and vice-versa.

For what it's worth, he only asked for my Order in his opening posts, not my House.

You had already told everyone your house....

[Rhand]

I'm not saying lynch Eddie,  I'm asking why the three of you are holding information back.

The information's much less useful if said publicly. It's only useful as a trick, something scum doesn't expect.

I also don't want to tell them how much I've shared with Uncle and vice-versa.

For what it's worth, he only asked for my Order in his opening posts, not my House.

You claimed your house when GHS was pushing for a house claim

[WestCoastDidds]

@Dylan I do not have the information that he said he has.

[MiX]

Oops. Right. Nevermind then.

@Dylan I do not have the information that he said he has.

So did you not cooperate?

[WestCoastDidds]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

I'm not arguing that the special order power is what Didds ignored as being part of a fullclaim, I'm arguing that she forgot that you can have powers completely unrelated to your order.

You're not looking too good here either.

I don’t have powers outside of my order...everything is explained in terms of order.  O, house and order for me would be everything I’ve got, knowledge wise, except my number of spheres.

But maybe I understand what information I have differently? I for sure didn’t understand why folks were saying that if they were town, they should have told Eddie everything he wanted to know.  Now, I wasn’t informed about his potential shift, but still, it seems antithetical to how we normally play to just share everything with someone because they ask.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oops. Right. Nevermind then.

@Dylan I do not have the information that he said he has.

So did you not cooperate?

No, I did not tell him order. I did tell him my house, though.

[Glooble]

People keep saying “Eddie’s third party, not scum”.

Do we have any evidence of that beyond Eddie’s word?

Now that we know people can have additional powers beyond their order I’m inclined to think Eddie is just scum fishing for as many town claims as possible.

Vote: Eddie

[hypercube]

Oops. Right. Nevermind then.

@Dylan I do not have the information that he said he has.

So did you not cooperate?

No, I did not tell him order. I did tell him my house, though.

Why did you summon him again after the first conversation?

[MiX]

People keep saying “Eddie’s third party, not scum”.

Do we have any evidence of that beyond Eddie’s word?

Now that we know people can have additional powers beyond their order I’m inclined to think Eddie is just scum fishing for as many town claims as possible.

Vote: Eddie

There is absolutely zero way Uncle would try to claim a third-party as a way to survive in f.ds. You have my word. That is completely impossible.

I have other reasons to trust Uncle as well, but as evidence of the above statement, the only word I need to say is RMM55. The rest's just trusting that I've gotten to know Uncle over time.

[jotheonah]

The main problem with this is you give scum all the data to find the most effective nightkill. It's better to talk about who you think is scummy, but it's still very good to think about who's towny.

How is your vig claim idea not the exact middle ground of what you are saying is bad here?

Also, I just don't get the utility of your claim-vig idea here. I get the part where skum is boxed out because they claim not vig... but then why not just make it a "claim not vig" plan? why out the vig?

There's really no difference between these two other than efficiency.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oops. Right. Nevermind then.

@Dylan I do not have the information that he said he has.

So did you not cooperate?

No, I did not tell him order. I did tell him my house, though.

Why did you summon him again after the first conversation?

Our conversation got cut short the first time because I assumed it was an ongoing qt (it’s not) and it got locked before I had responded to him. So, I asked some questions in the thread about if people thought he was being silly or scummy with the knave-talk, then decided that I’d go ahead and chat with him.

PPE: 2

[faust]

But maybe I understand what information I have differently? I for sure didn’t understand why folks were saying that if they were town, they should have told Eddie everything he wanted to know.  Now, I wasn’t informed about his potential shift, but still, it seems antithetical to how we normally play to just share everything with someone because they ask.

The point is that Dylan was only asked for information he already shared in here.

[hypercube]

vote: Didds

[Rhand]

But maybe I understand what information I have differently? I for sure didn’t understand why folks were saying that if they were town, they should have told Eddie everything he wanted to know.  Now, I wasn’t informed about his potential shift, but still, it seems antithetical to how we normally play to just share everything with someone because they ask.

The point is that Dylan was only asked for information he already shared in here.

Apart from his alignment if he’s mafia.

[jotheonah]

vote: MiX

too many almost kinda pseudo scumslips. In a setup this complicated, scum has a lot of info, presumably, just based on sharing power info with each other. Town also has a lot of info just based on that huge setup post. So I can really see a scum player getting MiXed up (pun intended) and saying things that they thought were common knowledge but aren't.

If you reread MiX you see him making weird assumptions about how much stuff costs, alluding to a stealing service that we don't know exists, the thing about scum having extra powers Dylan pointed out in #312, etc.

And MiX has a town OR scum meta (not to mention a human nature) that doesn't exactly allow him to lie low.

[MiX]

Thieving service is obviously the protection program. It's a Service, and it stops Thieving. So it's a Thieving Service. Not my fault that sounds reversed, I mean what else could I be talking about?

(Almost) Everything costs at least 15...so I just assumed the Reporter thing did.

What's #312, phone posting.

What's that last line about?

[Rhand]

vote: MiX

too many almost kinda pseudo scumslips. In a setup this complicated, scum has a lot of info, presumably, just based on sharing power info with each other. Town also has a lot of info just based on that huge setup post. So I can really see a scum player getting MiXed up (pun intended) and saying things that they thought were common knowledge but aren't.

If you reread MiX you see him making weird assumptions about how much stuff costs, alluding to a stealing service that we don't know exists, the thing about scum having extra powers Dylan pointed out in #312, etc.

And MiX has a town OR scum meta (not to mention a human nature) that doesn't exactly allow him to lie low.

I was worried when he claimed that 15 cost for the reporting too, but then Dylan stepped in and said that 15 was wrong, so it’s not tmi.

[faust]

But maybe I understand what information I have differently? I for sure didn’t understand why folks were saying that if they were town, they should have told Eddie everything he wanted to know.  Now, I wasn’t informed about his potential shift, but still, it seems antithetical to how we normally play to just share everything with someone because they ask.

The point is that Dylan was only asked for information he already shared in here.

Apart from his alignment if he’s mafia.

I mean, according to Didds Eddie did not ask about alignment.

[MiX]

Oh is #312 about how there's surges with powers that are anti-town and thus scum are the only ones that use them? Yeah no one could've seen that except scum. I love alignment inverting as town, cops should ba insane, waymore fun.

How the hell is this not NAI.

PPE: Productive question I'm sure.

[Glooble]

The 15 assumption is the scummy part. I didn't point it out because I assumed Dylan had said it cost 15 and I'd just missed it. But there's powers in the setup point that only cost 5, so it is a weird assumption to make.

I'm okay with vote: MiX

[WestCoastDidds]

But maybe I understand what information I have differently? I for sure didn’t understand why folks were saying that if they were town, they should have told Eddie everything he wanted to know.  Now, I wasn’t informed about his potential shift, but still, it seems antithetical to how we normally play to just share everything with someone because they ask.

The point is that Dylan was only asked for information he already shared in here.

He clearly had something different going on in his conversation than he did with me, or maybe with MiX. He didn't say anything about his alignment changing to mine if I told him or anything even close to that. So, I can just tell you what he told me.  But based on his repeated attempts to get Dylan to check his qt, he was fairly impatient to talk to Dylan so perhaps knowing his order was more than he got from me or MiX. 

Also, this was all happening in knave-speak so its not exactly straightforward.

[faust]

The 15 assumption is the scummy part. I didn't point it out because I assumed Dylan had said it cost 15 and I'd just missed it. But there's powers in the setup point that only cost 5, so it is a weird assumption to make.

I'm okay with vote: MiX

You said why it's a weird assumption to make, but why is it a scummy one?

[Glooble]

The 15 assumption is the scummy part. I didn't point it out because I assumed Dylan had said it cost 15 and I'd just missed it. But there's powers in the setup point that only cost 5, so it is a weird assumption to make.

I'm okay with vote: MiX

You said why it's a weird assumption to make, but why is it a scummy one?

Because if there's a scum dustbringer, and MiX is scum, MiX would be likely to know exactly what that ability costs.

But then I guess he would have gotten it right, not wrong.

Okay, back to

vote: Eddie

[cayvie]

request prod on Greathallscout, it's been 3 days

[jotheonah]

vote: MiX

too many almost kinda pseudo scumslips. In a setup this complicated, scum has a lot of info, presumably, just based on sharing power info with each other. Town also has a lot of info just based on that huge setup post. So I can really see a scum player getting MiXed up (pun intended) and saying things that they thought were common knowledge but aren't.

If you reread MiX you see him making weird assumptions about how much stuff costs, alluding to a stealing service that we don't know exists, the thing about scum having extra powers Dylan pointed out in #312, etc.

And MiX has a town OR scum meta (not to mention a human nature) that doesn't exactly allow him to lie low.

I was worried when he claimed that 15 cost for the reporting too, but then Dylan stepped in and said that 15 was wrong, so it’s not tmi.

Doesn't matter if he's right or not. It's about how much info he has access to that caused him to draw the wrong conclusion. Like he just said "(Almost) Everything costs at least 15" ... where does that come from? His PM? Or his PM + his partners'? I don't really feel like my PM has enough costs in it for me to draw a conclusion like that...

[jotheonah]

Oh wait, there are sphere costs in the setup post. I did forget that. So Surge powers are public, including costs, Order powers are secret, including costs, and starting Stormlight allocations are secret.

[jotheonah]

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

[mail-mi]

request prod on Greathallscout, it's been 3 days

Prod sent.

[faust]

MiX is a terrible lynch. Eddie I get and I'm usually all for lynching the third parties, but this D1 hasn't been very successful in terms of generating wagons and interactions and I'd like at least one wagon to get close to lynch that isn't NAI.

[MiX]

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

What did I do that is scummy?

[Glooble]

I still think Eddie could be scum trying to get into the "town core" with this third party gambit. Neighborize a bunch of folks, get a ton of claims, and then claim his alignment changed and now he's town.

[MiX]

I still think Eddie could be scum trying to get into the "town core" with this third party gambit. Neighborize a bunch of folks, get a ton of claims, and then claim his alignment changed and now he's town.

That's just bad play. Like, really bad. I wouldn't wonder if he's vigged just in case.

[Uncleeurope]

The little man comes into the room grinning like mad and plucking at his lute in a similar fashion. Upon seeing so many people turn and stare at him, he froze mid-strut, balancing on one leg for what feels like an eternity.

...

"Uhhhh, does anyone want to talk, perchance?

Another alternative, for you fine folk, Is to choose a representative for me, To thusly relieve all my secrets in bulk, And therefor avoid them going to the family (Mafia).

I need that they only full claim to me,
Relieve themselves of their identity,
Win-Con and House followed by their Order,
Then thou needest they not be a hoarder.

So choose who you think, is town above town, that is trusted by all, and worthy to hold my secrets, then they can decide, if I am best to die. (I'm not, by the way, tho, 'tis a spoiler for me to say)

Even if you don't take me up on my offer, I must talk with someone, anyone interested in such a task?"

[Uncleeurope]

I still think Eddie could be scum trying to get into the "town core" with this third party gambit. Neighborize a bunch of folks, get a ton of claims, and then claim his alignment changed and now he's town.

"Bahahahaha, aren't you a glorious wit, I should retire and allow you to take up my position!"

[Uncleeurope]

"Seriously, though, anyone wanna talk?"

[WestCoastDidds]

The little man comes into the room grinning like mad and plucking at his lute in a similar fashion. Upon seeing so many people turn and stare at him, he froze mid-strut, balancing on one leg for what feels like an eternity.

...

"Uhhhh, does anyone want to talk, perchance?

Another alternative, for you fine folk, Is to choose a representative for me, To thusly relieve all my secrets in bulk, And therefor avoid them going to the family (Mafia).

I need that they only full claim to me,
Relieve themselves of their identity,
Win-Con and House followed by their Order,
Then thou needest they not be a hoarder.

So choose who you think, is town above town, that is trusted by all, and worthy to hold my secrets, then they can decide, if I am best to die. (I'm not, by the way, tho, 'tis a spoiler for me to say)

Even if you don't take me up on my offer, I must talk with someone, anyone interested in such a task?"

Eddie, what does the full claim do to the person who shares it with you?

[Uncleeurope]

"Nothing, and if anything does, you can lynch me. I will say, that you all will learn more about me after a Highstorm, primarily the reason I chose not to hide, and evidence I am not mafia inside."

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, I will talk to you

[Uncleeurope]

"Might want to have more people weigh in about this first, lest they have a better person in mind to bear my secrets. It should go to one that they can all trust."

[MiX]

I trust myself. But it seems that others don't.

I trust LaLight as well.

[Glooble]

Ok, you know what? I was going to wait until I had a big wagon on me, but that's apparently not happening, so why not?

I'm a triggered IC. If we want someone everyone can trust is town, I can trigger my ability now and then talk to Eddie.

[Uncleeurope]

Ok, you know what? I was going to wait until I had a big wagon on me, but that's apparently not happening, so why not?

I'm a triggered IC. If we want someone everyone can trust is town, I can trigger my ability now and then talk to Eddie.

"I can think of no better person to converse with."

[Uncleeurope]

(I mean, except that your default position here is wanting to kill me, that definitely makes this awkward... But it does help town, so...)

[Glooble]

(I mean, except that your default position here is wanting to kill me, that definitely makes this awkward... But it does help town, so...)

Yeah, but hopefully once I've heard you out my mind will change about that.

[MiX]

Ok, you know what? I was going to wait until I had a big wagon on me, but that's apparently not happening, so why not?

I'm a triggered IC. If we want someone everyone can trust is town, I can trigger my ability now and then talk to Eddie.

Ah. I thought you had some voting based ability. Well, I'm glad I didn't vote you a lot then.

[Rhand]

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

If MiX would work from tmi, then that would mean all mafia extra order abilities cost 15 or more. The dustbringer one is 5. Mine is 5. I can’t believe mafia doesn’t have a cheap one.

@faust: Why exactly are you still voting me at this point?

[Glooble]

Unvote

I can definitively say he's not scum.

[MiX]

Unvote

I can definitively say he's not scum.

What else do you want to say?

[Glooble]

Unvote

I can definitively say he's not scum.

What else do you want to say?

Still trying to suss out what info is better if everyone has it and what info is better if only some people have it.

[faust]

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

If MiX would work from tmi, then that would mean all mafia extra order abilities cost 15 or more. The dustbringer one is 5. Mine is 5. I can’t believe mafia doesn’t have a cheap one.

@faust: Why exactly are you still voting me at this point?

It's because I think you're scum. Why shouldn't I be voting for you?

[faust]

Unvote

I can definitively say he's not scum.

So, you will become an IC any minute now, right?

[Glooble]

Unvote

I can definitively say he's not scum.

So, you will become an IC any minute now, right?

I asked to use the ability in my QT. So yes.

[Glooble]

Also, when I say "definitively", what I mean is "He has told me something about his ability which can be easily confirmed, and I don't see a universe in which mail-mi gives said ability to scum." Obviously I'm not infallible. Maybe mail-mi did. But it seems extremely unlikely.

[scolapasta]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

[faust]

People who voted for Glooble: cayvie, LaLight, MiX, Dylan

I kinda hoped to find some more.

[faust]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

[mail-mi]

A strong voice booms from the sky. It seems like the voice of the Almighty himself.

Glooble is a Child of Honor. I cannot help you more. I am sorry.

mail-mi looks toward Glooble. "Well," he said, "looks like he's one I can trust."

Vote Count 1.6

chairs (1): WestCoastDidds
GreatHallScout (1): Rhand
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
hypercube (1): MiX,
Uncleeurope (3): chairs, cayvie, LaLight
MiX (4): Dylan32, EFHW, jotheonah, scolapasta
Rhand (1): faust
WestCoastDidds (1): hypercube

Not Voting (4): GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, Swowl, Glooble

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

[faust]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

[Glooble]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

[scolapasta]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

How would MiX know what the powers in his own order cost?

[scolapasta]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

This. ^ If we decide we can trust Eddie, then these QTs of his are now very useful. Unless there's a catch (what if they're only D1, for example, which could be why he's been trying to ping so many).

[MiX]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

Does he claim to be town-aligned now?

[faust]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

How would MiX know what the powers in his own order cost?

...by reading his role PM?

[faust]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

So we should all claim to Eddie, who then gives these claims to you, and we can solve the game?

[faust]

Either this game is fundamentally broken, or there is something we're missing about Eddie's role.

[Glooble]

Never mind, I don't think the mods can help me here.

Ok, so the setup post says all town and mafia aligned players are Knights Radiant, right? Only faust and cayvie have confirmed the Knights Radiant can have additional powers beyond what their order gives them. Which means the fact that Eddie's powers are not connected to an order doesn't automatically make him not mafia.

His QT power obviously is confirmed. He has mentioned another power which can be confirmed after the first highstorm. It doesn't necessarily seem unbalanced for scum to have a player with this power suite, it just seems like really weird game design.

I'm inclined to say we can trust him to deliver messages. I'm just scared of tanking the whole town if I'm wrong.

PPE:

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

So we should all claim to Eddie, who then gives these claims to you, and we can solve the game?

How does that solve us the game? From the setup post:

As a last note, not every Order is guaranteed to be in the game. There may be 1 Edgedancer and 1 Skybreaker, or 4 Edgedancers and no Skybreakers.

So what does my knowing everyone's order tell us?

[scolapasta]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

How would MiX know what the powers in his own order cost?

...by reading his role PM?

Sorry, confused house and order here and thought you meant that he would lnow powers from others in his house.

But I still don't get your point. Each order has access to 1 RP. So not sure what you mean by "all order powers".

[faust]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

How would MiX know what the powers in his own order cost?

...by reading his role PM?

Sorry, confused house and order here and thought you meant that he would lnow powers from others in his house.

But I still don't get your point. Each order has access to 1 RP. So not sure what you mean by "all order powers".

Each order has access to 2 Surges, with 2 powers each, plus a special power, equaling 5 powers.

[faust]

As a last note, not every Order is guaranteed to be in the game. There may be 1 Edgedancer and 1 Skybreaker, or 4 Edgedancers and no Skybreakers.

So what does my knowing everyone's order tell us?

I mean, you can send back Night action orders for everyone, and whoever is noticed working against those will be lynched. We also nail down scum's fakeclaims early on. It seems extremely powerful.

[faust]

Ok, so the setup post says all town and mafia aligned players are Knights Radiant, right? Only faust and cayvie have confirmed the Knights Radiant can have additional powers beyond what their order gives them. Which means the fact that Eddie's powers are not connected to an order doesn't automatically make him not mafia.

I've only read the first book so far, but from a flavor perspective it seems fairly unlikely that Eddie would be a Knight Radiant.

[scolapasta]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

How would MiX know what the powers in his own order cost?

...by reading his role PM?

Sorry, confused house and order here and thought you meant that he would lnow powers from others in his house.

But I still don't get your point. Each order has access to 1 RP. So not sure what you mean by "all order powers".

Each order has access to 2 Surges, with 2 powers each, plus a special power, equaling 5 powers.

OK, I have been referring to the order special (non surge) powers.

Particularly, because there is no order for which all 5 powers cost 15.  So one can't make the assumption that all powers cost 15 based on just one's own powers.

[Rhand]

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

If MiX would work from tmi, then that would mean all mafia extra order abilities cost 15 or more. The dustbringer one is 5. Mine is 5. I can’t believe mafia doesn’t have a cheap one.

@faust: Why exactly are you still voting me at this point?

It's because I think you're scum. Why shouldn't I be voting for you?

Because you were voting me over a misunderstanding and now you’re parroting me. I have no clue why you would think I am scum.

[faust]

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

If MiX would work from tmi, then that would mean all mafia extra order abilities cost 15 or more. The dustbringer one is 5. Mine is 5. I can’t believe mafia doesn’t have a cheap one.

@faust: Why exactly are you still voting me at this point?

It's because I think you're scum. Why shouldn't I be voting for you?

Because you were voting me over a misunderstanding and now you’re parroting me. I have no clue why you would think I am scum.

Your case for being town seems to rest entirely on actions I took. Not a particularly strong defense.

[Rhand]

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

If MiX would work from tmi, then that would mean all mafia extra order abilities cost 15 or more. The dustbringer one is 5. Mine is 5. I can’t believe mafia doesn’t have a cheap one.

@faust: Why exactly are you still voting me at this point?

It's because I think you're scum. Why shouldn't I be voting for you?

Because you were voting me over a misunderstanding and now you’re parroting me. I have no clue why you would think I am scum.

Your case for being town seems to rest entirely on actions I took. Not a particularly strong defense.

I can’t defend myself vs nothing :shrug:

[Greathallscout]

Sorry about my inactivity- mixture of moving to a new house and bad internet. I think i will focus now on eddie's qt ability and faust's extra powers versus other's claims. I feel like I missed something as I just skimmed regarding both of those.

[cayvie]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

So we should all claim to Eddie, who then gives these claims to you, and we can solve the game?

How is this different from us just all agreeing to full claim in the thread?

[jotheonah]

Toldya Glooble was town.

[Glooble]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

So we should all claim to Eddie, who then gives these claims to you, and we can solve the game?

How is this different from us just all agreeing to full claim in the thread?

Im confirmed town and Eddie is at least confirmed not mafia. There’s a lot I could do knowing everyone’s roles and being able to dm any of them. But there’s a lot scum could do to screw it up.

[scolapasta]

Are there any restrictions to eddie's neighborhood creation? do they cost stormlight?

[faust]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

So we should all claim to Eddie, who then gives these claims to you, and we can solve the game?

How is this different from us just all agreeing to full claim in the thread?

Scum does not have any information.

[MiX]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

So we should all claim to Eddie, who then gives these claims to you, and we can solve the game?

How is this different from us just all agreeing to full claim in the thread?

That the only people that would know everyone's roles is Uncle and Glooble.

But faust's right. This is a broken setup if this is the case. I'm sure Uncle can disrupt this. He may be third-party, but we know nothing about how he wins.

[cayvie]

So, Glooble: Do you think we can use Eddie to relay information to you? Or is that too dangerous?

I'm pretty sure we can trust him to do that. I need to ask the mods a question in my QT which might make me more sure.

So we should all claim to Eddie, who then gives these claims to you, and we can solve the game?

How is this different from us just all agreeing to full claim in the thread?

That the only people that would know everyone's roles is Uncle and Glooble.

But faust's right. This is a broken setup if this is the case. I'm sure Uncle can disrupt this. He may be third-party, but we know nothing about how he wins.

Okay, that makes sense.

I think I'm in for trying it, though.

[Glooble]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

[cayvie]

If it ain't Eddie, vote: Greathallscout

I want to bring up a key point that I think may have been lost.

Read this progression. Here, GHS clearly implies that his townread on joth has something to do with joth's sincerity regarding no-lynching.

These are my current thoughts as a reread people. not all at once since theres so many. so i will update. And it helps me get clarity with so many people.

Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me.

Then, when I bring up that this is not a good reason to townread joth, he pivots:

mmm vote: GreatHallScout

this feels like a faked readlist

1) the sincerity of joth's no lynch suggestion is a poor reason to townread him. after all, he has stated that he posted it to fish for reactions.

1) I must've missed where joth said they did it for reactions. I wasn't saying that's why i think they are town just that i didn't think it was scummy. i think he is town mostly because he directly pointed out the "game design flaw"

Why this pivot? It doesn't make sense to me from a town standpoint. faust has dismissed this concern as standard noobishness, but I disagree. Why would town give one reason for townreading someone, then switch to a different one, and, crucially, deny that they were ever townreading joth for the first reason in the first place?

This thought process, to me, reeks of scum deciding "Yes, this is my fake read on someone" and then changing the reasons for the read when challenged, because he has already decided on a read that he wishes to present.

His explanation for why he did this doesn't clear things up for me:

1)I probably could have phrased it better- i guess i thought it was obvious why I thought joth was town since other people responded that they were town after the house-issue. I felt the need to explain why i thought i didnt care too much for the No lynch since some players seemed it was bad enough to think he is scum(that was the parentheses part).

It just sounds like more made-up justification. "I thought it was obvious why I thought joth was town" is just a wild thing to say, in particular. in context. Think about what this means.

He's saying he thought it was so obvious that he was townreading joth for pointing out the game design flaw, that he didn't need to state that in his readlist. Not only that, he thought his reasons were so obvious, that he could put something else in parentheses, after joth's name, and that the reader would somehow know that the stuff in parentheses was not evidence for his townread.

This is just too much. I don't believe this explanation. He just pivoted and got confused because his townread wasn't genuine. He's scum.

[Greathallscout]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

How would MiX know what the powers in his own order cost?

...by reading his role PM?

Sorry, confused house and order here and thought you meant that he would lnow powers from others in his house.

But I still don't get your point. Each order has access to 1 RP. So not sure what you mean by "all order powers".

Each order has access to 2 Surges, with 2 powers each, plus a special power, equaling 5 powers.

i dont want you to give more information about it. im just confused- didnt you say you have another power in post 830?

[Greathallscout]

1)I probably could have phrased it better- i guess i thought it was obvious why I thought joth was town since other people responded that they were town after the house-issue. I felt the need to explain why i thought i didnt care too much for the No lynch since some players seemed it was bad enough to think he is scum(that was the parentheses part).

It just sounds like more made-up justification. "I thought it was obvious why I thought joth was town" is just a wild thing to say, in particular. in context. Think about what this means.

He's saying he thought it was so obvious that he was townreading joth for pointing out the game design flaw, that he didn't need to state that in his readlist. Not only that, he thought his reasons were so obvious, that he could put something else in parentheses, after joth's name, and that the reader would somehow know that the stuff in parentheses was not evidence for his townread.

This is just too much. I don't believe this explanation. He just pivoted and got confused because his townread wasn't genuine. He's scum.

right after joth pointed it out. someone called them an IC. In joth!scum position I think they wouldnt have pointed it out and hoped that no one would have because if someone did then town is at a huge advantage.

[Greathallscout]

I didnt explain most of my reads very well. and If you don't believe that my use of parentheses indicates a paranthetical point that i was making, I'm not sure what I can say more to convince you. If you think the whole list is lame, doesnt it make sense that I'm just not good at making lists?

[MiX]

Each order has access to 2 Surges, with 2 powers each, plus a special power, equaling 5 powers.

i dont want you to give more information about it. im just confused- didnt you say you have another power in post 830?

faust has powers outside his order.

1)I probably could have phrased it better- i guess i thought it was obvious why I thought joth was town since other people responded that they were town after the house-issue. I felt the need to explain why i thought i didnt care too much for the No lynch since some players seemed it was bad enough to think he is scum(that was the parentheses part).

It just sounds like more made-up justification. "I thought it was obvious why I thought joth was town" is just a wild thing to say, in particular. in context. Think about what this means.

He's saying he thought it was so obvious that he was townreading joth for pointing out the game design flaw, that he didn't need to state that in his readlist. Not only that, he thought his reasons were so obvious, that he could put something else in parentheses, after joth's name, and that the reader would somehow know that the stuff in parentheses was not evidence for his townread.

This is just too much. I don't believe this explanation. He just pivoted and got confused because his townread wasn't genuine. He's scum.

right after joth pointed it out. someone called them an IC. In joth!scum position I think they wouldnt have pointed it out and hoped that no one would have because if someone did then town is at a huge advantage.

Was that me, was that meeee, see calling people ICs creates reactions!

Pointing it out first's free town points, why wouldn't scum!joth do that?

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, that makes sense.

I think I'm in for trying it, though.

At the very least having some coordination of the investigative roles would be huge, plus some folks keeping he and Glooble safe.

Eddie will be hampered somewhat by the speed that he can open and shut qts (the mod locks and unlocks). He will need to people to be around to respond, and then leave them for the next one.  There are a lot of us in different time zones, so this will be logistically difficult. 

But mostly I think...this is so exciting!!!

[MiX]

There's also a bunch of lurkers (did you know Swan AND Galzria are playing this game?) which makes this plan likely to not work D1. But we should pretend it's working to completion so scum has no idea how far into it Glooble and Uncle got.

[Greathallscout]

@mix are you saying that its free points because scum!joth wouldve assumed SOMEONE would have pointed it out?

[MiX]

@mix are you saying that its free points because scum!joth wouldve assumed SOMEONE would have pointed it out?

Yes.

[Greathallscout]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

Maybe this is a theme of mine that i dont trust that people would figure things out and you guys trust eachothers intellect more. It crossed my mind that eddie might be trying to out scum and i wouldn't have posted it because i would hope scum might fall for it.

[Uncleeurope]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

[MiX]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Vote: Uncle

[WestCoastDidds]

There's also a bunch of lurkers (did you know Swan AND Galzria are playing this game?) which makes this plan likely to not work D1. But we should pretend it's working to completion so scum has no idea how far into it Glooble and Uncle got.

Swowl was here yesterday, but Galz and chairs both haven't posted since 6/8.

Request prods on Galz and chairs, please

[Glooble]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Vote: Uncle

I would still much rather lynch scum today.

[MiX]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Vote: Uncle

I have refused your plan. I have never liked "trust the third-party" games, so I will not be taking part in an anti-town third-party being alive. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for at least myself, as I believe playing to win is one of the most important things for everyone to have fun.

PPE: Are you absolutely sure you don't want to lynch Eddie?

[Uncleeurope]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Vote: Uncle

”You wish the game to be boring, do you?”

[WestCoastDidds]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Dude, seriously?
vote: Eddie

[mail-mi]

There's also a bunch of lurkers (did you know Swan AND Galzria are playing this game?) which makes this plan likely to not work D1. But we should pretend it's working to completion so scum has no idea how far into it Glooble and Uncle got.

Swowl was here yesterday, but Galz and chairs both haven't posted since 6/8.

Request prods on Galz and chairs, please

Prods sent.

[Greathallscout]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I mean even before people ruled it out it is what most skum would do. Especially in a game like this, with so many players. To have a pact to this extent there would have to be essentially 100% agreement, which skum (or anyone) can assume just isn't gonna happen on Day 1. So, taking the towny approach to the situation is def how I would assume skum to approach it... since it probably ain't gonna happen anyway.

Well before the rule change, we came up with a broken plan for town. why cant there be some consensus with math and logic to the towniest plan?

[MiX]

There's also a bunch of lurkers (did you know Swan AND Galzria are playing this game?) which makes this plan likely to not work D1. But we should pretend it's working to completion so scum has no idea how far into it Glooble and Uncle got.

Swowl was here yesterday, but Galz and chairs both haven't posted since 6/8.

Request prods on Galz and chairs, please

I'm used to chairs not being here, to be fair.

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Vote: Uncle

”You wish the game to be boring, do you?”

I wish to play to win, and you clearly are not playing to win nor for me to win. So, why keep you around?

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I mean even before people ruled it out it is what most skum would do. Especially in a game like this, with so many players. To have a pact to this extent there would have to be essentially 100% agreement, which skum (or anyone) can assume just isn't gonna happen on Day 1. So, taking the towny approach to the situation is def how I would assume skum to approach it... since it probably ain't gonna happen anyway.

Well before the rule change, we came up with a broken plan for town. why cant there be some consensus with math and logic to the towniest plan?

It's not broken for town for no one to be able to steal.

[Greathallscout]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Vote: Uncle

”You wish the game to be boring, do you?”

you'll be the star of the show!

[Uncleeurope]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

Vote: Uncle

”You wish the game to be boring, do you?”

you'll be the star of the show!

”It’s not a show I would watch, though.”

[cayvie]

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

[Greathallscout]

@mix okay so maybe broken was too strong-but i think my point is valid that we can come up with a really towny plan.

[Uncleeurope]

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

”‘Kill him!’ is thy cry? Is this what thy plea?
To have me die in front of all of thee?
I bid’st that thou wait, ’til the next Highstorm
Where more will be known, while bunk’d in thy dorm.”

[MiX]

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

My guess is that he cannot do it, or simply that he doesn't want to do it. Why would you NK him when you can just cooperate with him as scum?

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

”‘Kill him!’ is thy cry? Is this what thy plea?
To have me die in front of all of thee?
I bid’st that thou wait, ’til the next Highstorm
Where more will be known, while bunk’d in thy dorm.”

...tsk! I have no doubt you're not scum. Why would we wait?

[WestCoastDidds]

I wish to play to win, and you clearly are not playing to win nor for me to win. So, why keep you around?

It's sooooo anti-town. I am feeling the same frustration I have with you when you say "everyone would do it this way"...Eddie decides what he thinks is fun and applies to everyone despite the fact that we helped him get what he needed.

I don't understand why Glooble is just like "eh, cool". He burned his IC status today to help Eddie and Eddie is now opting out of helping town.

[MiX]

I wish to play to win, and you clearly are not playing to win nor for me to win. So, why keep you around?

It's sooooo anti-town. I am feeling the same frustration I have with you when you say "everyone would do it this way"...Eddie decides what he thinks is fun and applies to everyone despite the fact that we helped him get what he needed.

I don't understand why Glooble is just like "eh, cool". He burned his IC status today to help Eddie and Eddie is now opting out of helping town.

I presume they talked it out, and this was the compromise. I kinda wanna hear what Glooble's saying about this.

[Greathallscout]

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

Can't he only agree to a plan where he is doctored or something? his plan seems more dangerous

ppe  @mix then scum loses the strength to their abilities? Isnt that the point of this whole glooble-eddie plan?

[Rhand]

I proposed a plan to Eddie.

“I have refused his plan. I have never liked “tell the IC everything” games, so I will not be taking part in delivering anyone’s role info to Glooble. I do this in order to keep the game engaging and fun for all parties.”

So you have actively been trying to get (at least) 3 people to claim to you in private, but a plan with helping an IC organise the Night is too much?
If it’s about the fun of the mafia team, we can only do this until our first storm Night because that Night mafia can kill anyone without interference.

[MiX]

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

Can't he only agree to a plan where he is doctored or something? his plan seems more dangerous

ppe  @mix then scum loses the strength to their abilities? Isnt that the point of this whole glooble-eddie plan?

No, because Eddie can lie to Glooble as scum wants him to, or something. He could also tell scum everyone's roles and stuff.

[Glooble]

If we lynch Eddie tonight then I burned my IC for nothing.

We need him to live through the first highstorm.

[scolapasta]

Yeah, Eddie, I don't get the not going with the plan because it would make the game less fun. I mean if that's true, we just finish this game and move on to Memento (or whatever's next).

I mean, you've got to play to win. So there's clearly something else you're not telling us, some other reason you don't want to help town.

[MiX]

Vote: hypercube

I'm gonna assume there was a plan between him and Glooble, and he can't risk going with his plan before a Highstorm. I trust Glooble in this as he's the one that knows the most about Uncle.

[Uncleeurope]

”I am playing to win.”

[WestCoastDidds]

If we lynch Eddie tonight then I burned my IC for nothing.

We need him to live through the first highstorm.

Can you say more Glooble (its okay if you can't). It just seems like we are (collectively) getting played.

[WestCoastDidds]

I trust Glooble, but I am not sure that Eddie is playing to win is the same as town't playing to win.

vote: chairs who hasn't done anything remotely helpful to town.

[cayvie]

If we lynch Eddie tonight then I burned my IC for nothing.

We need him to live through the first highstorm.

we also need you to live that long too, correct?

[Glooble]

If we lynch Eddie tonight then I burned my IC for nothing.

We need him to live through the first highstorm.

Can you say more Glooble (its okay if you can't). It just seems like we are (collectively) getting played.

Saying more would give scum too much.

[MiX]

”I am playing to win.”

I stepped out of line when I said you weren't. I'm sorry.

If we lynch Eddie tonight then I burned my IC for nothing.

We need him to live through the first highstorm.

Can you say more Glooble (its okay if you can't). It just seems like we are (collectively) getting played.

I think we need to trust Glooble on this...a public consensus seems worse than him deciding by himself, and there's probably some hidden information that should remain hidden.

This better change after the highstorm.

PPE 2: Just get some other IC, hopefully that was an order power.

[cayvie]

If we lynch Eddie tonight then I burned my IC for nothing.

We need him to live through the first highstorm.

Also, this first sentence is what marks say when they're being scammed.

"If I back out of this sure plan to make $2000 now, I'll be down the $10 I've already invested!"

[Greathallscout]

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

My guess is that he cannot do it, or simply that he doesn't want to do it. Why would you NK him when you can just cooperate with him as scum?

sorry im confused.

What did you mean by cooperate with him as scum? i thought you meant follow the glooble-eddie plan.

No, because Eddie can lie to Glooble as scum wants him to, or something. He could also tell scum everyone's roles and stuff.

why would scum trust glooble? I think I'm missing something.

[Uncleeurope]

”There is no guerentee that all Knights with the same order have the same extra power, yes?”

[Rhand]

I think Eddie should tell someone he trusts of his choosing the plan too. If the first Highstorm comes at Night, we lose Glooble and will never know what they agreed.

[Uncleeurope]

I think Eddie should tell someone he trusts of his choosing the plan too. If the first Highstorm comes at Night, we lose Glooble and will never know what they agreed.

“I was thinks it about this, too...”

[Greathallscout]

In addition, each Order has access to 1 role power that is unique to their Order. They can use this power each night if they have the Stormlight for it. (This means that a Knight Radiant can take up to 3 actions each night: 1 from each Surge and their Order-specific action).

sounds like each order has the same extra power

[MiX]

vote: Eddie

My guess: Eddie doesn't want this plan because it makes him a prime nightkill target. Understandable, if he does not win with the town. I am so fine with lynching a survivor-esque role.

My guess is that he cannot do it, or simply that he doesn't want to do it. Why would you NK him when you can just cooperate with him as scum?

sorry im confused.

What did you mean by cooperate with him as scum? i thought you meant follow the glooble-eddie plan.

No, because Eddie can lie to Glooble as scum wants him to, or something. He could also tell scum everyone's roles and stuff.

why would scum trust glooble? I think I'm missing something.

I mean that when Eddie's collecting claims from people, scum can just claim they're scum and cooperate with Eddie.

”There is no guerentee that all Knights with the same order have the same extra power, yes?”

Each order has a specific power, but given faust's claim, there can be Knights that have an unique power unrelated to their order.

I think Eddie should tell someone he trusts of his choosing the plan too. If the first Highstorm comes at Night, we lose Glooble and will never know what they agreed.

“I was thinks it about this, too...”

Would the second IC please stand up. I pick LL (and myself, wow).

[Rhand]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

[Swowl]

The little man comes into the room grinning like mad and plucking at his lute in a similar fashion. Upon seeing so many people turn and stare at him, he froze mid-strut, balancing on one leg for what feels like an eternity.

...

"Uhhhh, does anyone want to talk, perchance?

Another alternative, for you fine folk, Is to choose a representative for me, To thusly relieve all my secrets in bulk, And therefor avoid them going to the family (Mafia).

I need that they only full claim to me,
Relieve themselves of their identity,
Win-Con and House followed by their Order,
Then thou needest they not be a hoarder.

So choose who you think, is town above town, that is trusted by all, and worthy to hold my secrets, then they can decide, if I am best to die. (I'm not, by the way, tho, 'tis a spoiler for me to say)

Even if you don't take me up on my offer, I must talk with someone, anyone interested in such a task?"

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

[MiX]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

He's been my top townread for as long as I can remember. My heart tells me he's town. There's also joth and Dylan, although Dylan's a bit...weird.

PPE: No, he only refused the plan to gather claims from everyone (at least publicly).

[jotheonah]

Request vote count

[Uncleeurope]

The little man comes into the room grinning like mad and plucking at his lute in a similar fashion. Upon seeing so many people turn and stare at him, he froze mid-strut, balancing on one leg for what feels like an eternity.

...

"Uhhhh, does anyone want to talk, perchance?

Another alternative, for you fine folk, Is to choose a representative for me, To thusly relieve all my secrets in bulk, And therefor avoid them going to the family (Mafia).

I need that they only full claim to me,
Relieve themselves of their identity,
Win-Con and House followed by their Order,
Then thou needest they not be a hoarder.

So choose who you think, is town above town, that is trusted by all, and worthy to hold my secrets, then they can decide, if I am best to die. (I'm not, by the way, tho, 'tis a spoiler for me to say)

Even if you don't take me up on my offer, I must talk with someone, anyone interested in such a task?"

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

”Info already exchanged hands. I was speaking of my current secrets, not the secrets of future moons.

Also, why the heck haven’t you responded to my whisper? You actually had zero questions regarding anything at all I posted to you? That’s not only suspicious, it’s downright un-you.”

[MiX]

Whisper! Ignore me.

I presume Swowl missed it lol.

[Glooble]

The problem with secrets is once someone broadcasts them in the thread they're not secret anymore.

[mail-mi]

"Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn."

—Collected on Ishashan 1172, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed spinster of the eighth dahn.

Vote Count 1.7

chairs (1): WestCoastDidds
GreatHallScout (1): Rhand
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
hypercube (1): MiX
Uncleeurope (3): chairs, LaLight, cayvie
MiX (4): Dylan32, EFHW, jotheonah, scolapasta
Rhand (1): faust
WestCoastDidds (1): hypercube

Not Voting (4): GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, Swowl, Glooble

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

[faust]

If we lynch Eddie tonight then I burned my IC for nothing.

We need him to live through the first highstorm.

Sunk cost fallacy.

[faust]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

[Swowl]

People who voted for Glooble: cayvie, LaLight, MiX, Dylan

I kinda hoped to find some more.

unclear on the intentions behind this list. its day 1 in an 18 player game - completely NAI.

[MiX]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Ooooh I wish I was partners with Rhand! That would be sooooo coooool! I would be so nervous haha.

[Rhand]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

[faust]

People who voted for Glooble: cayvie, LaLight, MiX, Dylan

I kinda hoped to find some more.

unclear on the intentions behind this list. its day 1 in an 18 player game - completely NAI.

Glooble is the only known town we have, so those votes are more indicative of alignment than other votes. Would be more telling if the wagon was bigger, but hey - cayvie, LaLight, Dylan would all make better wagons than we have right now. And I guess MiX already is a wagon.

[WestCoastDidds]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

[faust]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

[Swowl]

There's also a bunch of lurkers (did you know Swan AND Galzria are playing this game?) which makes this plan likely to not work D1. But we should pretend it's working to completion so scum has no idea how far into it Glooble and Uncle got.

Burn?
Had posts up within the previous 10 hours of you posting this though... Of which 8 of them i was asleep for.
That being said, def spending more time comprehending this game so far then participating.

Also, i will not be the one to burn the plan. If everyone is in agreement i will be as well.

[Swowl]

There's also a bunch of lurkers (did you know Swan AND Galzria are playing this game?) which makes this plan likely to not work D1. But we should pretend it's working to completion so scum has no idea how far into it Glooble and Uncle got.

Burn?
Had posts up within the previous 10 hours of you posting this though... Of which 8 of them i was asleep for.
That being said, def spending more time comprehending this game so far then participating.

Also, i will not be the one to burn the plan. If everyone is in agreement i will be as well.

although, posting while I finish reading it appears the plan is not an option since eddie doesn't wanna do it?

[MiX]

There's also a bunch of lurkers (did you know Swan AND Galzria are playing this game?) which makes this plan likely to not work D1. But we should pretend it's working to completion so scum has no idea how far into it Glooble and Uncle got.

Burn?
Had posts up within the previous 10 hours of you posting this though... Of which 8 of them i was asleep for.
That being said, def spending more time comprehending this game so far then participating.

Also, i will not be the one to burn the plan. If everyone is in agreement i will be as well.

although, posting while I finish reading it appears the plan is not an option since eddie doesn't wanna do it?

Yes.

[Swowl]

Whisper! Ignore me.

I presume Swowl missed it lol.

yeah I did. Eddie you can time stamp it almost exactly. I went to my qt to ask the mod a querstion and saw the link. I used the key word you told me to use here (which pretty much exactly when I realized I had the thread):

[Swowl]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

thanks.

Yeah I got all that in between stuff... I was just clarifying that the "boring" part was real.

I mean how much faith do we have in the plan that was established?
If Eddie is playing to win we could force him into cooperation if we think there is a chance he is being stubborn "not-mafia" more than we think he is mafia - though that would be pretty much just based off of Glooble's read at this point.

[Uncleeurope]

Whisper! Ignore me.

I presume Swowl missed it lol.

yeah I did. Eddie you can time stamp it almost exactly. I went to my qt to ask the mod a querstion and saw the link. I used the key word you told me to use here (which pretty much exactly when I realized I had the thread):

”Oof, my bad, sorry about that, I was searching your posts for it, no idea how I missed it. Well, I was scum reading you for not responding, but that’s a wasted scum read now. Haha”

[cayvie]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

What about Jimmmmm?

[cayvie]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

Does it matter what you think, if you don't let us into your thought process?

[faust]

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

Does it matter what you think, if you don't let us into your thought process?

Yes.

[Glooble]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

thanks.

Yeah I got all that in between stuff... I was just clarifying that the "boring" part was real.

I mean how much faith do we have in the plan that was established?
If Eddie is playing to win we could force him into cooperation if we think there is a chance he is being stubborn "not-mafia" more than we think he is mafia - though that would be pretty much just based off of Glooble's read at this point.

I have faith that a positive outcome for town will occur, though exactly what that outcome is relies on a certain amount of chance.

[EFHW]

vote: Didds. Possible third party slip and over-emphasis on being pro-town. Why should Eddie be pro-town if he is a third party? We haven't heard any confirmation that he changed alignment.

I'm also not getting the value of the plan. Could someone spell it out, please? Thank you.

[Swowl]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

thanks.

Yeah I got all that in between stuff... I was just clarifying that the "boring" part was real.

I mean how much faith do we have in the plan that was established?
If Eddie is playing to win we could force him into cooperation if we think there is a chance he is being stubborn "not-mafia" more than we think he is mafia - though that would be pretty much just based off of Glooble's read at this point.

I have faith that a positive outcome for town will occur, though exactly what that outcome is relies on a certain amount of chance.

ok... so cool... but like eddie is not on board right? so where did we land on the plan? Assuming everyone agrees we spill to eddie and then... what? I mean tbh I am already not super comfy with the whole town giving info to eddie to begin with, but with your "endorsement" it makes it at least possible.
But what happens after they have all the info if they are not going to feed it to you?

[Rhand]

I’m gonna take a step back from this game. Faust refusing to answer is getting under my skin.
Cya all tomorrow.

[Glooble]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

thanks.

Yeah I got all that in between stuff... I was just clarifying that the "boring" part was real.

I mean how much faith do we have in the plan that was established?
If Eddie is playing to win we could force him into cooperation if we think there is a chance he is being stubborn "not-mafia" more than we think he is mafia - though that would be pretty much just based off of Glooble's read at this point.

I have faith that a positive outcome for town will occur, though exactly what that outcome is relies on a certain amount of chance.

ok... so cool... but like eddie is not on board right? so where did we land on the plan? Assuming everyone agrees we spill to eddie and then... what? I mean tbh I am already not super comfy with the whole town giving info to eddie to begin with, but with your "endorsement" it makes it at least possible.
But what happens after they have all the info if they are not going to feed it to you?

We are not mass claiming via Eddie, but there is still a plan. It’s best not to discuss this plan openly. If it involves you, Eddie will contact you. In the meantime, we should all focus on finding scum because we have less than two days to deadline.

[chairs]

Just finished reading page 32 of 41ish.

Vote: hypercube

[scolapasta]

vote: MiX

I do think the 15/5 mixup is enough for me to vote.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

There is an alternative, that he correctly made this assumption and that those claiming there's are 5 are both lying, in order to frame MiX, but that seems significantly less likely.

No this is bad. You say "all scum order powers cost 15" but it could be the same if all order powers for MiX's own order cost 15, and the latter is signficantly more likely than the former, and NAI.

How would MiX know what the powers in his own order cost?

...by reading his role PM?

Sorry, confused house and order here and thought you meant that he would lnow powers from others in his house.

But I still don't get your point. Each order has access to 1 RP. So not sure what you mean by "all order powers".

Each order has access to 2 Surges, with 2 powers each, plus a special power, equaling 5 powers.

OK, I have been referring to the order special (non surge) powers.

Particularly, because there is no order for which all 5 powers cost 15.  So one can't make the assumption that all powers cost 15 based on just one's own powers.

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

[MiX]

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

@scola, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

[chairs]

Still feel good about my cube vote now that I’m caught up.

Eddie, if your window opens I should be able to respond for another 6 hours to any whisper or whatever your temporary neighbor thing is. I do have about a half hour drive first though.

Not happy you didn’t go with the “boring” plan that sounds like an easy win though. I don’t care if a game of Mafia is “fun” if I win, and if the full claim was as strong as folks suggest it’s objectively the right play.

[MiX]

Still feel good about my cube vote now that I’m caught up.

Eddie, if your window opens I should be able to respond for another 6 hours to any whisper or whatever your temporary neighbor thing is. I do have about a half hour drive first though.

Not happy you didn’t go with the “boring” plan that sounds like an easy win though. I don’t care if a game of Mafia is “fun” if I win, and if the full claim was as strong as folks suggest it’s objectively the right play.

There's a massive hole in the plan, which is Uncle can just tell scum everything and then it's no different from a D1 massclaim.

That alone means that if Uncle is willing, he can destroy it completely, so ending it here is not that anti-town.

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: Didds. Possible third party slip and over-emphasis on being pro-town. Why should Eddie be pro-town if he is a third party? We haven't heard any confirmation that he changed alignment.

I'm also not getting the value of the plan. Could someone spell it out, please? Thank you.

Because he supposedly became aligned with Glooble when Glooble full claimed to him. The fact that he is being anti-town now would suggest that he wasn’t forthcoming about what the full claim would do.

But we’re putting a pin in this because Glooble says there is a plan, we just don’t know what that plan entails.

Since you are the one who began and drove this discussion yesterday, I’m not sure how you’d miss this

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: EFHW

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

I don't see how EFHW's vote is scummy. Wrong, yes, but scummy? I don't get it.

[hypercube]

Just finished reading page 32 of 41ish.

Vote: hypercube

So this vote is here to indicate that you couldn't think of a reason why town had to know what happens if two alignment inverters target the same person?

vote: chairs

It seems more likely to me that Eddie is town or a town-friendly third party than that he's scum, so I'm OK with going along with whatever plan he and Glooble have.

[Swowl]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

thanks.

Yeah I got all that in between stuff... I was just clarifying that the "boring" part was real.

I mean how much faith do we have in the plan that was established?
If Eddie is playing to win we could force him into cooperation if we think there is a chance he is being stubborn "not-mafia" more than we think he is mafia - though that would be pretty much just based off of Glooble's read at this point.

I have faith that a positive outcome for town will occur, though exactly what that outcome is relies on a certain amount of chance.

ok... so cool... but like eddie is not on board right? so where did we land on the plan? Assuming everyone agrees we spill to eddie and then... what? I mean tbh I am already not super comfy with the whole town giving info to eddie to begin with, but with your "endorsement" it makes it at least possible.
But what happens after they have all the info if they are not going to feed it to you?

We are not mass claiming via Eddie, but there is still a plan. It’s best not to discuss this plan openly. If it involves you, Eddie will contact you. In the meantime, we should all focus on finding scum because we have less than two days to deadline.

ok cool, making sure I didn't miss something. there is kind of a lot to comb through.

[MiX]

Just finished reading page 32 of 41ish.

Vote: hypercube

So this vote is here to indicate that you couldn't think of a reason why town had to know what happens if two alignment inverters target the same person?

vote: chairs

It seems more likely to me that Eddie is town or a town-friendly third party than that he's scum, so I'm OK with going along with whatever plan he and Glooble have.

I can't think of a reason why town had to know what happens if two alignment inverters target the same person. I mean, given the answer, I do now, but I don't see town ever thinking about that beforehand.

Why are you voting for chairs?

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: EFHW

I don't see how EFHW's vote is scummy. Wrong, yes, but scummy? I don't get it.

What is it about her that you’ve found towny?

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

I don't see how EFHW's vote is scummy. Wrong, yes, but scummy? I don't get it.

What is it about her that you’ve found towny?

To be honest, I don't remember. I don't see anything that's ringing off my EFHW-is-scum bells, and thus she's town as I'm usually good at seeing scum!EFHW.

[scolapasta]

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

@scola, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

I get this is part of your schtick, but I explained it in my initial post where I voted for you. Was hoping others would opine too, but only got faust based on what seems faulty reasoning.

[Uncleeurope]

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

@scola, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

I get this is part of your schtick, but I explained it in my initial post where I voted for you. Was hoping others would opine too, but only got faust based on what seems faulty reasoning.

”Faust reasoning...”

[Uncleeurope]

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

@scola, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

I get this is part of your schtick, but I explained it in my initial post where I voted for you. Was hoping others would opine too, but only got faust based on what seems faulty reasoning.

”Faust reasoning...”

Autocorrect didn’t like that joke...

“Fausty Reasoning”

There, I did it...

[chairs]

Just finished reading page 32 of 41ish.

Vote: hypercube

So this vote is here to indicate that you couldn't think of a reason why town had to know what happens if two alignment inverters target the same person?

vote: chairs

It seems more likely to me that Eddie is town or a town-friendly third party than that he's scum, so I'm OK with going along with whatever plan he and Glooble have.

I’m not sure I understand the question. I can absolutely picture an admittedly weird scenario wherein a cop and an inverter could now combine forces to virtually guarantee inversion is neutered - invert the target and cop the target and boom you now know that what you got is accurate (albeit it is the exact opposite of the truth, it is reliably such and thus you can divine the true alignment this way)

[EFHW]

vote: Didds. Possible third party slip and over-emphasis on being pro-town. Why should Eddie be pro-town if he is a third party? We haven't heard any confirmation that he changed alignment.

I'm also not getting the value of the plan. Could someone spell it out, please? Thank you.

Because he supposedly became aligned with Glooble when Glooble full claimed to him. The fact that he is being anti-town now would suggest that he wasn’t forthcoming about what the full claim would do.

But we’re putting a pin in this because Glooble says there is a plan, we just don’t know what that plan entails.

Since you are the one who began and drove this discussion yesterday, I’m not sure how you’d miss this

I didn't miss it, I don't understand it.

[hypercube]

To summarize:

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

[Greathallscout]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

Did Glooble admit to full claiming to Eddie? I cant find where he did.

[chairs]

To summarize:

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

I was speaking with the wisdom of hindsight - given I had assumed double inverter canceled out, the answer was 1000 percent useful to Town, assuming we have the requisite style of Knights

[MiX]

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

[scolapasta]

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Why did you assume Dylan's posting power cost 15?

[MiX]

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Why did you assume Dylan's posting power cost 15?

A true answer to this is a soft claim.

[scolapasta]

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Why did you assume Dylan's posting power cost 15?

A true answer to this is a soft claim.

Hmm... anyway, at least you didn't ignore my question. SO here's my answer to yours - when I refer to "order powers" I'm not including surge. (because I agree 100% if you look at surge powers, there's no way that you would assume 15, which is what it sounded to me like faust was saying).

However, if you just look at the special order power and have access to multiple, and they all cost 15... well, I could see the erroneous assumption there. Which is why my vote is on you.

[Dylan32]

So one thing that is bothering me a little is that it seemed like MiX and Didds talked to Eddie before he talked to me, but there was a window where someone else could have been talking to him before I brought up his neighborhoods in the thread. If there was a 4th person that talked and if said 4th person was scum that claimed, Eddie could already have been recruited and be faking cooperation with Glooble.  For those who had them, can we check the timestamps of when they opened and closed to know how possible that is?

[WestCoastDidds]

So, I’ve talked to him twice:

Open 6/5 at 1:31 PM....I didn’t see it until 4:00
Locked 4:35 PM

Unlocked 6/6 9:57 AM
He left me 10:37 AM, but it didn’t lock again 12:21

[WestCoastDidds]

So, I’ve talked to him twice:

Open 6/5 at 1:31 PM....I didn’t see it until 4:00
Locked 4:35 PM

Unlocked 6/6 9:57 AM
He left me 10:37 AM, but it didn’t lock again 12:21

Sorry that last line of garbled. He left me at 10:37 AM, but the mod didn’t lock the QT until 12:21

[MiX]

Assuming this is legal, and that QT timestamps are forum time, the first QT opened at around 4:30 pm and closed at 7:00 pm in 5/6, the second one opened at 1:00 pm at closed at 1:55 pm in 6/6.

[Dylan32]

Ok. Mine opened right when MiX's locked and closed and locked the next morning (6/7). I brought it up in the thread at post #663, 6:11 pm June 8th.

So there's a couple gaps, and assuming the mod would close one neighborhood and open the next one at roughly the same time. 7pm June 5 to 9:57am June 6, and for at least > 24 hours after mine closed.

[Dylan32]

Ok. Mine opened right when MiX's locked, and it closed and locked the next morning (6/7). I brought it up in the thread at post #663, 6:11 pm June 8th.

So there's a couple gaps, and assuming the mod would close one neighborhood and open the next one at roughly the same time. 7pm June 5 to 9:57am June 6, and for at least > 24 hours after mine closed.

italics edited for clarity

[Dylan32]

I think if anyone else had a neighborhood with Eddie in those time slots, you should say so now. You don't even have to say what was talked about, but we should know who all Eddie talked to prior to the IC claiming to him.

[MiX]

From 7pm to 10am...I presume Uncle was sleeping, waiting for Swowl to appear.

[Dylan32]

Oh wait, yeah, I guess I glossed over them trying and missing each other. Makes sense. But then where'd he go after me? He definitely at least tried to go somewhere, and the other person (not Eddie) should claim it with at least the timestamp of when it opened.

[MiX]

Oh wait, yeah, I guess I glossed over them trying and missing each other. Makes sense. But then where'd he go after me? He definitely at least tried to go somewhere, and the other person (not Eddie) should claim it with at least the timestamp of when it opened.

When did yours close?

[Dylan32]

For the record, I know it's pretty unlikely that this will catch scum in some sort of lie or mistake by messing up the timestamp, but if someone does mess it up, I'd know they were lying. But more importantly, on the off chance scum had the chance to recruit him in this gap, knowing who had that chance before anything happens would be great.

ps: Also, Eddie shouldn't leave his current neighborhood until someone answers this in order to avoid possible coordination.

ppe 1

[Dylan32]

Oh wait, yeah, I guess I glossed over them trying and missing each other. Makes sense. But then where'd he go after me? He definitely at least tried to go somewhere, and the other person (not Eddie) should claim it with at least the timestamp of when it opened.

When did yours close?

See the first sentence of my last post for the gist of why I'm not answering that. I guess I'd even be willing to say the time first after I know who was next if that person is more trusted by everyone else than I am, but I'm not saying the time until we at least know who it was.

[MiX]

Oh wait, yeah, I guess I glossed over them trying and missing each other. Makes sense. But then where'd he go after me? He definitely at least tried to go somewhere, and the other person (not Eddie) should claim it with at least the timestamp of when it opened.

When did yours close?

See the first sentence of my last post for the gist of why I'm not answering that. I guess I'd even be willing to say the time first after I know who was next if that person is more trusted by everyone else than I am, but I'm not saying the time until we at least know who it was.

I don't get it. Do you want to make it hard to...claim to have talked to Uncle after you? If someone did talk to him, and they wanted to lie...they wouldn't say anything, right?

[Dylan32]

Oh wait, yeah, I guess I glossed over them trying and missing each other. Makes sense. But then where'd he go after me? He definitely at least tried to go somewhere, and the other person (not Eddie) should claim it with at least the timestamp of when it opened.

When did yours close?

See the first sentence of my last post for the gist of why I'm not answering that. I guess I'd even be willing to say the time first after I know who was next if that person is more trusted by everyone else than I am, but I'm not saying the time until we at least know who it was.

I don't get it. Do you want to make it hard to...claim to have talked to Uncle after you? If someone did talk to him, and they wanted to lie...they wouldn't say anything, right?

Sure. But in that case it tells us that they're likely scum, because there's no reason for town not to at least say "I talked to Eddie." I mean, none of the rest of us shared everything that was said, so that's not the expectation. The only reason not to be honest would be because you are scum AND tried to recruit him. I mean, scum wouldn't have any reason to lie if they didn't claim to Eddie. So by not being willing to claim now, it basically would tell us that Eddie had gotten what he wanted before the IC claimed to him and is actually at least anti-town already.

[Dylan32]

Maybe the whole timestamp thing is irrelevant, because I the only scenario I can think of off the top of my head in which someone could really want to lie about that is a convoluted scenario where two scum talked to Eddie back to back and both claimed, and the 2nd one could lie to cover up the fact the first person is the one who actually recruited him. Other scenarios leave no motivation to lie about the time or where the person claiming wouldn't know the correct timestamp. And if this hypothetical player is scum and recruited Eddie first, there's no reason Eddie wouldn't back up the lie.

[Dylan32]

Maybe the whole timestamp thing is irrelevant, because I the only scenario I can think of off the top of my head in which someone could really want to lie about that is a convoluted scenario where two scum talked to Eddie back to back and both claimed, and the 2nd one could lie to cover up the fact the first person is the one who actually recruited him. Other scenarios leave no motivation to lie about the time or where the person claiming wouldn't know the correct timestamp. And if this hypothetical player is scum and recruited Eddie first, there's no reason Eddie wouldn't back up the lie.

By "the whole timestamp thing," I am referring specifically to keeping my neighborhood closing time secret, not to the other info that has been gleaned from this conversation.

[MiX]

Maybe the whole timestamp thing is irrelevant, because I the only scenario I can think of off the top of my head in which someone could really want to lie about that is a convoluted scenario where two scum talked to Eddie back to back and both claimed, and the 2nd one could lie to cover up the fact the first person is the one who actually recruited him. Other scenarios leave no motivation to lie about the time or where the person claiming wouldn't know the correct timestamp. And if this hypothetical player is scum and recruited Eddie first, there's no reason Eddie wouldn't back up the lie.

And I think it's pretty insane for scum to do this. Even if you allow them to, it's...it's really worth nothing. It just lets scum have some other scummate claim to have been talking with Uncle instead of the real one...except without daychat they wouldn't know anything anyway, and with daychat they can get the timestamp. So, I don't get it.

It would be useful if it's possible Uncle just didn't talk to anyone because he was sleeping or something.

[Dylan32]

Maybe the whole timestamp thing is irrelevant, because I the only scenario I can think of off the top of my head in which someone could really want to lie about that is a convoluted scenario where two scum talked to Eddie back to back and both claimed, and the 2nd one could lie to cover up the fact the first person is the one who actually recruited him. Other scenarios leave no motivation to lie about the time or where the person claiming wouldn't know the correct timestamp. And if this hypothetical player is scum and recruited Eddie first, there's no reason Eddie wouldn't back up the lie.

And I think it's pretty insane for scum to do this. Even if you allow them to, it's...it's really worth nothing. It just lets scum have some other scummate claim to have been talking with Uncle instead of the real one...except without daychat they wouldn't know anything anyway, and with daychat they can get the timestamp. So, I don't get it.

It would be useful if it's possible Uncle just didn't talk to anyone because he was sleeping or something.

Scum could know, because the 2nd scum would literally be talking to newly recruited scum!Eddie after the 1st one, so Eddie would just say oh hey, just talked to your buddy, I'm one of you now.

He might have just slept, but probably would have told the mod in his personal QT something along the lines of "I want to leave Dylan's neighborhood and talk to X." That way the mod gets to it and both closes the old one and opens the next one so that when Eddie wakes up or comes back around the next one is open instead of having to wait until both he and the mod are online the next day to start the next one, so I don't think a total gap like that is likely. 

[MiX]

Maybe the whole timestamp thing is irrelevant, because I the only scenario I can think of off the top of my head in which someone could really want to lie about that is a convoluted scenario where two scum talked to Eddie back to back and both claimed, and the 2nd one could lie to cover up the fact the first person is the one who actually recruited him. Other scenarios leave no motivation to lie about the time or where the person claiming wouldn't know the correct timestamp. And if this hypothetical player is scum and recruited Eddie first, there's no reason Eddie wouldn't back up the lie.

And I think it's pretty insane for scum to do this. Even if you allow them to, it's...it's really worth nothing. It just lets scum have some other scummate claim to have been talking with Uncle instead of the real one...except without daychat they wouldn't know anything anyway, and with daychat they can get the timestamp. So, I don't get it.

It would be useful if it's possible Uncle just didn't talk to anyone because he was sleeping or something.

Scum could know, because the 2nd scum would literally be talking to newly recruited scum!Eddie after the 1st one, so Eddie would just say oh hey, just talked to your buddy, I'm one of you now.

He might have just slept, but probably would have told the mod in his personal QT something along the lines of "I want to leave Dylan's neighborhood and talk to X." That way the mod gets to it and both closes the old one and opens the next one so that when Eddie wakes up or comes back around the next one is open instead of having to wait until both he and the mod are online the next day to start the next one, so I don't think a total gap like that is likely.

Right, since yours started when mine closed, that makes sense. I guess it doesn't matter then.

[Dylan32]

But this is why to keep it secret. If that scenario is playing out where they knows it happened but doesn't have daychat, this is why I said Eddie shouldn't leave his current neighborhood until after the person claims, so that the 2nd can't get the timestamp to cover for the real one. Why would they do that? I don't know. Most wouldn't. But say the 2nd is an average player that's under a lot of suspicion and the second is a really good player who is widely being townread. There's at least a case where they would want to, so I'm basically just trying to shut any remote loopholes scum could remotely have so we can get the truth, even though the majority (possibly the overwhelming majority) of the time, it doesn't matter.

ppe 1

[Dylan32]

Holy verb tense and subject agreement Batman, that second sentence of my last post was awful. Here it is rewritten for clarity...

If the scenario [where two scum talked to Eddie after I did] is playing out such that the 2nd one knows what happened, but they don't have daychat [to get the timestamp from the first], Eddie shouldn't leave his current neighborhood until after the other person claims, so that the 2nd scum can't get the timestamp to hide the 1st one.

[Swowl]

So Eddie brought up the idea of electing someone we all "trust" to have him give the info to in bulk. Then glooble volunteers, and uses IC trigger, and now Eddie is saying no?
Do I have that summarized correctly?

Not quite... Glooble triggered IC, full claimed to Eddie, Eddie presumably told him stuff, Glooble has some belief that Eddie is town and then hatched a plan to help town win by funneling information through Eddie's qt power. That is what Eddie said "no" to...using jis qt to help us win because they would be boring to him.

Also, it looks like you need to check your qt to talk to Eddie!

Did Glooble admit to full claiming to Eddie? I cant find where he did.

I don't know what the post is, but he did say he claimed out to him somewhere yes.

[Swowl]

I think if anyone else had a neighborhood with Eddie in those time slots, you should say so now. You don't even have to say what was talked about, but we should know who all Eddie talked to prior to the IC claiming to him.

mine opened 6/6 at 12:20pm and closed 6/6 at 1pm.

[Swowl]

To clarify - I  did not realize I had a thread, so literally zero words were said to eddie from me. I am just sharing the time stamp part because I cannot possibly imagine how that info could be used against us.

[chairs]

Also beneficial: Eddie could verify there was another person talked to but not give time or name

[Dylan32]

I think if anyone else had a neighborhood with Eddie in those time slots, you should say so now. You don't even have to say what was talked about, but we should know who all Eddie talked to prior to the IC claiming to him.

mine opened 6/6 at 12:20pm and closed 6/6 at 1pm.

Those times line up perfectly between a couple of MiX and Didds' slots, which adds evidence to one opening right when the previous one closes (within the minute or two it would take the mod to create/post in the new one).

[cayvie]

How did you choose which players to neighbors, Eddie?

[Uncleeurope]

I talked with Hypercube at some point, and I talked to zero people after Dylan’s closed for a pretty long time.

It was Sunday, I believe that I closed it? I remember being busy, and I find it impolite to Open a QT with someone and then wait a day to actually talk in it. Some IRL stuff has been happening on my end, so I kinda wasn’t present for a good chunk of time.

~ Talking as Uncleeurope because I am talking about Uncleeurope things.

[Uncleeurope]

How did you choose which players to neighbors, Eddie?

Didds is fun, and good to get a read on early,

MiX is obligatory.

Hypercube presses me on Cult Leader for the QT thing so I had to prove him wrong.

Swowl is fun.

Dylan was legit me just choosing someone I had never talked to much who was online when I went to make a new QT.

Glooble is an IC.

I almost threw a Faust in there somewhere, but he gets suspicious of third parties...

[scolapasta]

How did you choose which players to neighbors, Eddie?

Didds is fun, and good to get a read on early,

MiX is obligatory.

Hypercube presses me on Cult Leader for the QT thing so I had to prove him wrong.

Swowl is fun.

Dylan was legit me just choosing someone I had never talked to much who was online when I went to make a new QT.

Glooble is an IC.

I almost threw a Faust in there somewhere, but he gets suspicious of third parties...

What, I'm not fun??  /kidding

So are you now town?

[faust]

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

He made a wrong assumption and ran with it. Seems very MiX.

[faust]

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Again, I don't know. I thought this might be a reasonable way to get there, but I didn't check. I think it's equally unlikely that somehow all the scum stuff costs 15. I think you just were confused and mixed up some numbers, there doesn't need to be a huge reasoning behind it.

[faust]

I think quoting timestamps from a QT is quoting and thus illegal, by the way. PLease refrain from doing it more until we have a ruling on it.

[faust]

I think quoting timestamps from a QT is quoting and thus illegal, by the way. PLease refrain from doing it more until we have a ruling on it.

Nevermind I guess, this game doesn't even prevent QT quoting. Though the opening and closing of thread could still be classified as "mod-provided information", which is illegal to quote.

[Galzria]

Well, that was a lot to catch up on. There’s a lot going on and it’s tough to keep pace.

Still strongly prefer faust. Not planning to move my vote. If I do, it will NOT be to any of these people:

Glooble, Eddie, Didds, Rhand, Dylan, Cayvie or Swowl.

Right now, preference is faust, followed by EFHW, then joth, then... eh.

[hypercube]

Ok. Mine opened right when MiX's locked and closed and locked the next morning (6/7). I brought it up in the thread at post #663, 6:11 pm June 8th.

So there's a couple gaps, and assuming the mod would close one neighborhood and open the next one at roughly the same time. 7pm June 5 to 9:57am June 6, and for at least > 24 hours after mine closed.

I had a neighborhood with Eddie from 7 pm June 5 to 9:57 am June 6. I didn't claim anything to him since he only offered to send a message in return.

[hypercube]

Oh, I can dandelion for a minute

Note that the time surrounding this attempt by Didds to talk to Eddie (after my QT closed) is still unclaimed I think.

[hypercube]

To summarize:

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

Truth be told, I've been watching these posts with interest but not had a lot of time to post. I find it laughable that I have even a nugget of suspicion laid upon me for congratulating cayvie on an excellent question and for assigning cayvie townpoints for it. I'm not expecting townpoints myself, but to call me scum based on "Oh man, I hadn't thought to ask that question that Town REALLY NEEDS AN ANSWER TO" being a reason (that is, in my mind, entirely logical) for townpoints is kind of silly.

I was speaking with the wisdom of hindsight - given I had assumed double inverter canceled out, the answer was 1000 percent useful to Town, assuming we have the requisite style of Knights

It's only useful if town has two people with access to Illumination, and scum also has at least one, and the two town people know each other's order, have some way of coordinating, and decide they'd rather do that than just both use the cop power. I think those probabilities add up to a lot less than 1000 %.

[Jimmmmm]

EFHW

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

Fine and null early vote.

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

Are you saying that Dylan is scummy for this, or just that it's not a Townslip?

vote: hypercube

Was this just for agreeing with faust's Dustbringer plan?

Have we heard from Eddie about Dylan's report on their QT? I'd like to hear what he has to say about it.

I'm very confused about Dylan saying he didn't full claim to Eddie. What is left to claim? Was there more Eddie wanted included?

I'm still trying to understand the whole Eddie thing. Did either one of them say that Dylan part-claimed? Did Dylan house-claim at some point? I don't think Dylan saying he didn't full-claim implies that he part-claimed; I take it to mean that he didn't claim. My understanding is that full-claiming to Eddie is in official action one must choose to take, whether or not Eddie already knows the details of that player's claim?

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

Scumslip here? Or 3rd party slip? Knowing someone's order does not tell you the special power that goes with it.

Regarding this and Didds' post, is the suggestion that House and Order is not a full-claim unless it also includes what that Order's unique power is, or that because some player/s claim to have one or more extra abilities as Town therefore all Town must? I'm not sure the first is much more than semantics, and the second seems to be a huge assumption and requires something close to a massclaim to verify. I guess the second is moot now since the IC has provided a counter-example.

Why wouldn't a town!neighbor tell us the whole story of what Eddie wanted?

What are you trying to gain from this? Surely if Town neighbours are keeping quiet it's because they have a reason to. Do you think any scum among them would be caught out if they had to open up about it (genuine question)? I doubt that any scum not aligned with Eddie (whether or not he's 3rd party) have given anything away to him they didn't want to.

vote: MiX.

Ppe: Still want to vote MiX.

Why? For disagreeing that Rhand scumslipped? For not revealing more about the Eddie business?

vote: Didds. Possible third party slip and over-emphasis on being pro-town. Why should Eddie be pro-town if he is a third party? We haven't heard any confirmation that he changed alignment.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the Didds scumslip was disproved by Glooble (#835). Did you miss that or was the scumslip about something else?

With the pro-Town thing, are you talking about #954? Is there a reason why it's scummy, or is this just a vote to express your disagreement? Why in particular would scum complain about a 3rd party not being pro-Town?


So... some scummy things here. Scumpoints for votes on hypercube and MiX without explanation. More for seemingly being fixed on scumslips and in particular 3rd party slips (with Eddie already being 3rd party, both Didds and Rhand have been accused of 3rd party slipping - that's a lot of parties!), and for using it as a reason to vote for Didds even after it was disproved by the IC. Overall I'm inclined to put her down as mild-moderate scum.

[LaLight]

i guess faust is town. the last two times i correctly read him as scum, so there's something. I think I maybe would be willing to vote for oh man

pretty much everyone, except couple of people. I feel strongly only about Eddie, chairs or MiX.

[Jimmmmm]

joth

18 people is way too many people and I never know how to play these Day 1s. Also HI.

Bold suggestion you are all going to hate, but I have to put it out there anyway: We No Lynch Day 1.

Why? Two reasons.

1) There's an even number of us so we're going to have to do it eventually.
2) Everybody has approximately 1 million powers so we're likely to learn a lot in the night.

After some consideration, I’ll support no lynch over a bad lynch day 1 but I think it’s very possible we’ll find a good lynch.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

There it is. Took long enough. Vote: chairs

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

After some consideration, I’ll support no lynch over a bad lynch day 1 but I think it’s very possible we’ll find a good lynch.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

Expand on those townreads please? Both Glooble and Didds are on my possible scum list.
And why the chairs vote?

I know Glooble very well (we’re IRL twins) and I’m usually pretty good at reading him. I also know Didds well but only from the site. Both are playing their town games and I usually can tell when they’re not.

I voted for chairs because his reaction to my no lynch suggestion was exactly the reaction scum would have.

vote: Glooble

and joth, you said twice, that you hard townread him and never said why.

Glooble is one of those players who plays more cautiously as scum and more recklessly as town.

chairs response was "No lynch is bad therefore the suggestor of no lynch must be scum." It's just an easy knee-jerk jump at the chance for a consensus mislynch. It's the exact response I was fishing for with the NL suggestion.

I don't really buy this as a reason why chairs' response was scummy. Is the suggestion that scum is worried about no-lynch actually happening? My understanding is that it's pretty universally agreed that no-lynch is bad for Town (aside from late in the game when parity is a real issue), and therefore good for scum. I think scum seeing that suggestion would be more than happy for it to happen, but highly doubt that it would have enough support.

vote: MiX

too many almost kinda pseudo scumslips. In a setup this complicated, scum has a lot of info, presumably, just based on sharing power info with each other. Town also has a lot of info just based on that huge setup post. So I can really see a scum player getting MiXed up (pun intended) and saying things that they thought were common knowledge but aren't.

If you reread MiX you see him making weird assumptions about how much stuff costs, alluding to a stealing service that we don't know exists, the thing about scum having extra powers Dylan pointed out in #312, etc.

And MiX has a town OR scum meta (not to mention a human nature) that doesn't exactly allow him to lie low.

Mmm... I don't know. It's a big complicated setup with a lot going on and 5 or more powers each. I don't know that getting parts of it wrong is particular to scum. In fact you could argue that scum would be more careful to not get things wrong.

Even so, I think I'm onto something here. Sometimes if it walks and talks and smells like a duck, it's a duck. MiX is posting like a person who's working with a different info set than the rest of us.

Is it though? You just talked yourself out of one of the ways it's like a duck. So you're left with the stealing service thing and the thing about scum spending extra spheres. Except he didn't actually say "stealing service" or "thieving service", he said "thievery service", which while it's probably a bit confusing at first glance, I totally buy that it means "service to prevent thievery". So there's just the "town and scum things" thing, which is no more convincing now than when the first scumslip argument was made.


Overall, minor Townpoints for Townreading the IC, and scumpoints for the reasons for voting chairs and MiX, landing on mild scum.

[Jimmmmm]

9/16 rereads (not counting Glooble). Here's my summary so far:

Moderate Town
faust

Mild Town
Dylan

Null
GHS

Mild scum
LaLight
joth
Eddie
chairs

Mild-Moderate scum
EFHW

Moderate scum
Galz


It occurs to me that this is weighted towards mild scum.

It's becoming apparent that I'm not going to finish before deadline without it becoming a major case of going through the motions. I'll check the votecount tomorrow and prioritise whoever seems viable. For now, Vote: Galz.

[WestCoastDidds]

Jimmmmm- I really appreciate all of the heavy lifting you’re doing in the rereads. It’s really helpful.

[faust]

9/16 rereads (not counting Glooble). Here's my summary so far:

Moderate Town
faust

Mild Town
Dylan

Null
GHS

Mild scum
LaLight
joth
Eddie
chairs

Mild-Moderate scum
EFHW

Moderate scum
Galz


It occurs to me that this is weighted towards mild scum.

It's becoming apparent that I'm not going to finish before deadline without it becoming a major case of going through the motions. I'll check the votecount tomorrow and prioritise whoever seems viable. For now, Vote: Galz.

Wow, that's not a lot of townreads. Did you focus on your scumreads for rereading?

[faust]

i guess faust is town. the last two times i correctly read him as scum, so there's something. I think I maybe would be willing to vote for oh man

pretty much everyone, except couple of people. I feel strongly only about Eddie, chairs or MiX.

That linebreak threw me off. The only thing I could think for a while was "but O isn't even in this game!"

[faust]

Jimmmmm- I really appreciate all of the heavy lifting you’re doing in the rereads. It’s really helpful.

How has it helped you?

[chairs]

Few thoughts:

First, full disclosure I townslipped and I’m sorry since I’m probably dying N1 for it.

Second, vote count please. I know I’m frustrated with cube and I think there’s scum there but I would rather lynch anybody than nobody and we’ve been incredibly diffuse today.

[MiX]

I like Jimmmmm's case on EFHW, but I can't help but think scum!EFHW would do different things...it all looks so bad of her to push what she's pushing and vote where she's voting, surely as scum she would know this, right? I think it's town not trying to look townie while pursuing their reads.

I absolutely need to reread hypercube and Galzria to see which one's scum. I've been putting off rereads for too long.

Few thoughts:

First, full disclosure I townslipped and I’m sorry since I’m probably dying N1 for it.

Second, vote count please. I know I’m frustrated with cube and I think there’s scum there but I would rather lynch anybody than nobody and we’ve been incredibly diffuse today.

Lol where?

[faust]

Vote: Galzria

[chairs]

I like Jimmmmm's case on EFHW, but I can't help but think scum!EFHW would do different things...it all looks so bad of her to push what she's pushing and vote where she's voting, surely as scum she would know this, right? I think it's town not trying to look townie while pursuing their reads.

I absolutely need to reread hypercube and Galzria to see which one's scum. I've been putting off rereads for too long.

Few thoughts:

First, full disclosure I townslipped and I’m sorry since I’m probably dying N1 for it.

Second, vote count please. I know I’m frustrated with cube and I think there’s scum there but I would rather lynch anybody than nobody and we’ve been incredibly diffuse today.

Lol where?

Basically have to full claim for an explanation

[MiX]

Where, not why.

[faust]

Where, not why.

Why do you want to help scum?

[LaLight]

i guess faust is town. the last two times i correctly read him as scum, so there's something. I think I maybe would be willing to vote for oh man

pretty much everyone, except couple of people. I feel strongly only about Eddie, chairs or MiX.

That linebreak threw me off. The only thing I could think for a while was "but O isn't even in this game!"

that's weird that I wrote it like that, not gonna lie. had a brainfart in the middle

[MiX]

Where, not why.

Why do you want to help scum?

You're right, sorry, forgot about something.

[jotheonah]

vote: chairs

apparently he's going to die anyway so may as well /s

[mail-mi]

QT time stamp sharing is sharing mod-provided information. Please do not share it anymore or you will be punished as determined by the mods.

Vote count coming soonish. 

[faust]

vote: chairs

apparently he's going to die anyway so may as well /s

You may as well vote Glooble then!

[MiX]

QT time stamp sharing is sharing mod-provided information. Please do not share it anymore or you will be punished as determined by the mods.

Vote count coming soonish. 

Aww. I was having fun with it.

vote: chairs

apparently he's going to die anyway so may as well /s

You can claim your VTness now, it's okay, no one will blame you. You can also pretend to be town and vote for scum instead of town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Jimmmmm- I really appreciate all of the heavy lifting you’re doing in the rereads. It’s really helpful.

How has it helped you?

Because everything is there together in a handy dandy wall post...especially helpful for mobile when control-f rereads are impossible.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Galzria

Why's that?

[mail-mi]

"The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me."

—Observed on Palaheses 1173, collected secondhand and later reported to the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a wealthy lighteyes.

Vote Count 1.8

chairs (2): hypercube, jotheonah
GreatHallScout (1): Rhand
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
hypercube (2): MiX, chairs
Uncleeurope (2): LaLight, cayvie
MiX (2): Dylan32, scolapasta
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Galzria (2): Jimmmmm, faust

Not Voting (3): GreatHallScout, Swowl, Glooble

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020. That's in just over 24 hours.

[Greathallscout]

@the-eddie-comunicators It seems eddie is asking for a full claim to be made towards them. Dylan is already a claimed dustbringer- did they ask you to claim that to them or not? When Mix was going over what eddie asked for - I think they said eddie didnt ask them for their house and others pointed out that eddie already knew that from Mix's claim. is this accurate.

Basically trying to figure out if eddie is trying for a claim directly at them or not. What are your thoughts based on what eddie asked you guys?

[hypercube]

@the-eddie-comunicators It seems eddie is asking for a full claim to be made towards them. Dylan is already a claimed dustbringer- did they ask you to claim that to them or not? When Mix was going over what eddie asked for - I think they said eddie didnt ask them for their house and others pointed out that eddie already knew that from Mix's claim. is this accurate.

Basically trying to figure out if eddie is trying for a claim directly at them or not. What are your thoughts based on what eddie asked you guys?

He specifically mentioned he wanted me to claim my order, but didn't mention my house.

[scolapasta]

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

He made a wrong assumption and ran with it. Seems very MiX.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Again, I don't know. I thought this might be a reasonable way to get there, but I didn't check. I think it's equally unlikely that somehow all the scum stuff costs 15. I think you just were confused and mixed up some numbers, there doesn't need to be a huge reasoning behind it.

While I agree that the style of the claim seems very MiXish, I still think there should still be a valid reason for an assumption. In this case, I fail to see it:

Assuming he has access to 5 powers, then it can't be that since there's no combo of 5 that are all 15. So then next, it's the one extra order power - who makes an assumption off 1 example??

But if I say to you this story: "scum talk N1, learn that all their order special powers cost 15. One of them observes, hmmm, looks like all order special power could cost 15 (or something like that), and then for one of them to scumslip" - I mean that should at least sound plausible no?

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

[Rhand]

Will catch up later today and then do a reread today/tomorrow.

[cayvie]

@faust, reading this, can you explain how you thought MiX could assume 15 cost for an order power?

He made a wrong assumption and ran with it. Seems very MiX.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Again, I don't know. I thought this might be a reasonable way to get there, but I didn't check. I think it's equally unlikely that somehow all the scum stuff costs 15. I think you just were confused and mixed up some numbers, there doesn't need to be a huge reasoning behind it.

While I agree that the style of the claim seems very MiXish, I still think there should still be a valid reason for an assumption. In this case, I fail to see it:

Assuming he has access to 5 powers, then it can't be that since there's no combo of 5 that are all 15. So then next, it's the one extra order power - who makes an assumption off 1 example??

But if I say to you this story: "scum talk N1, learn that all their order special powers cost 15. One of them observes, hmmm, looks like all order special power could cost 15 (or something like that), and then for one of them to scumslip" - I mean that should at least sound plausible no?

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

this is good. i like this from scolapasta.

[cayvie]

talk to me, scola: gun to head, who are your top ~4 picks for mafia?

[MiX]

While I agree that the style of the claim seems very MiXish, I still think there should still be a valid reason for an assumption. In this case, I fail to see it:

Assuming he has access to 5 powers, then it can't be that since there's no combo of 5 that are all 15. So then next, it's the one extra order power - who makes an assumption off 1 example??

But if I say to you this story: "scum talk N1, learn that all their order special powers cost 15. One of them observes, hmmm, looks like all order special power could cost 15 (or something like that), and then for one of them to scumslip" - I mean that should at least sound plausible no?

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

this is good. i like this from scolapasta.

Why? It's a stretch at best and it's occupying all of his attention. If I was scum I would know a bit more what a Reporter ability would cost by comparing with other order powers. But I just have mine, and that doesn't let me extrapolate much.

[faust]

Vote: Galzria

Why's that?

We need wagons, I like this one best of the people with at least one vote.

[cayvie]

While I agree that the style of the claim seems very MiXish, I still think there should still be a valid reason for an assumption. In this case, I fail to see it:

Assuming he has access to 5 powers, then it can't be that since there's no combo of 5 that are all 15. So then next, it's the one extra order power - who makes an assumption off 1 example??

But if I say to you this story: "scum talk N1, learn that all their order special powers cost 15. One of them observes, hmmm, looks like all order special power could cost 15 (or something like that), and then for one of them to scumslip" - I mean that should at least sound plausible no?

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

this is good. i like this from scolapasta.

Why? It's a stretch at best and it's occupying all of his attention. If I was scum I would know a bit more what a Reporter ability would cost by comparing with other order powers. But I just have mine, and that doesn't let me extrapolate much.

i already think you're not mafia, MiX. but scola's post makes me think he is also not mafia, whereas previously i didn't have much of a read on scola at all. i.e., i think scola is genuinely trying to scumhunt.

if looking for a case on you is "occupying all his attention", that means he's town, right?

[cayvie]

Vote: Galzria

Why's that?

We need wagons, I like this one best of the people with at least one vote.

better than vote: EFHW?

[faust]

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

I mean, you may be right, after all MiX himself seemed to suggest that there was something more going on. To me it just looked like the thing where people scumread someone because they accidentally wrote "scum" when they meant "town". Also MiX has done a lot more this game. I always find that zeroing in on perceived "scumslips" and not judging the whole performance of a player leads to bad results.

[faust]

Vote: Galzria

Why's that?

We need wagons, I like this one best of the people with at least one vote.

better than vote: EFHW?

I think so, at least for now.

[MiX]

Why? It's a stretch at best and it's occupying all of his attention. If I was scum I would know a bit more what a Reporter ability would cost by comparing with other order powers. But I just have mine, and that doesn't let me extrapolate much.

i already think you're not mafia, MiX. but scola's post makes me think he is also not mafia, whereas previously i didn't have much of a read on scola at all. i.e., i think scola is genuinely trying to scumhunt.

if looking for a case on you is "occupying all his attention", that means he's town, right?

I agree with "I like (...) scolapasta" but not "this is good".

PPE: Also faust's town. Good job!

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Galzria

Why's that?

We need wagons, I like this one best of the people with at least one vote.

Hmmm...I hadn't realized the deadline was so close. He's at the top of Jimmm's list too. And since no one else is feeling EFHW ,vote: Galz is okay in the interest of consolidation.

[cayvie]

huh, interesting.

it feels like wagons have had a tough-ish time forming today. but EFHW in particular has seemed to be almost allergic to wagons, despite widespread suspicion upon her from many players (myself, WCD, faust, jimmmmm, GHS off the top of my head)

[WestCoastDidds]

huh, interesting.

it feels like wagons have had a tough-ish time forming today. but EFHW in particular has seemed to be almost allergic to wagons, despite widespread suspicion upon her from many players (myself, WCD, faust, jimmmmm, GHS off the top of my head)

I had this thought as well.  It definitely makes my spidey-senses tingle

[WestCoastDidds]

But I also recognize that there are still some battle scars from thinking she was scummy almost all of Ashe's game but never being able to get a wagon to build.

[faust]

huh, interesting.

it feels like wagons have had a tough-ish time forming today. but EFHW in particular has seemed to be almost allergic to wagons, despite widespread suspicion upon her from many players (myself, WCD, faust, jimmmmm, GHS off the top of my head)

So why weren't you voting for her earlier?

[cayvie]

huh, interesting.

it feels like wagons have had a tough-ish time forming today. but EFHW in particular has seemed to be almost allergic to wagons, despite widespread suspicion upon her from many players (myself, WCD, faust, jimmmmm, GHS off the top of my head)

So why weren't you voting for her earlier?

i wanted to push GHS, iirc. also no real case on her, just gut.

[cayvie]

what about you, Rhand, what's your top 4 scums looking like?

[scolapasta]

talk to me, scola: gun to head, who are your top ~4 picks for mafia?

Well, clearly MiX. Possibly also faust and GHS? I don't know, even with all the chatter, I have yet to feel super strong on D1.

(I am concerned about misreading both MiX and faust, as I know their styles of play do lead to misreads)

[Swowl]

What is the reasoning behind Galz wagon here?

The only thing I can find at all surrounding him is his back and forth with faust. Are ya'll reading that as skummy?

[scolapasta]

While I agree that the style of the claim seems very MiXish, I still think there should still be a valid reason for an assumption. In this case, I fail to see it:

Assuming he has access to 5 powers, then it can't be that since there's no combo of 5 that are all 15. So then next, it's the one extra order power - who makes an assumption off 1 example??

But if I say to you this story: "scum talk N1, learn that all their order special powers cost 15. One of them observes, hmmm, looks like all order special power could cost 15 (or something like that), and then for one of them to scumslip" - I mean that should at least sound plausible no?

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

this is good. i like this from scolapasta.

Why? It's a stretch at best and it's occupying all of his attention. If I was scum I would know a bit more what a Reporter ability would cost by comparing with other order powers. But I just have mine, and that doesn't let me extrapolate much.

Um... isn't "If I was scum I would know a bit more what a Reporter ability would cost by comparing with other order powers" exactly what I'm saying?

And while it's occupying all my posting, it's not occupying all my attention. A lot of it really has been faust's pushback on this not being a reasonable lead.

[MiX]

Why? It's a stretch at best and it's occupying all of his attention. If I was scum I would know a bit more what a Reporter ability would cost by comparing with other order powers. But I just have mine, and that doesn't let me extrapolate much.

Um... isn't "If I was scum I would know a bit more what a Reporter ability would cost by comparing with other order powers" exactly what I'm saying?

And while it's occupying all my posting, it's not occupying all my attention. A lot of it really has been faust's pushback on this not being a reasonable lead.

Yes, but I would be more right than wrong. You know, bigger sample and all that.

[scolapasta]

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

I mean, you may be right, after all MiX himself seemed to suggest that there was something more going on. To me it just looked like the thing where people scumread someone because they accidentally wrote "scum" when they meant "town". Also MiX has done a lot more this game. I always find that zeroing in on perceived "scumslips" and not judging the whole performance of a player leads to bad results.

Sure, but this wasn't accidental. He repeated several times about spending 15 for reporter. Again, I may completely be going down the wrong path here, but this wasn't a type: MiX made an assumption that it costs 15 in his words "for some reason".

[WestCoastDidds]

What is the reasoning behind Galz wagon here?

The only thing I can find at all surrounding him is his back and forth with faust. Are ya'll reading that as skummy?

That, Jimmmmms reread, his general of disengagement, lack of helpfulness to town, that EFHW isn’t happening.

[scolapasta]

What is the reasoning behind Galz wagon here?

The only thing I can find at all surrounding him is his back and forth with faust. Are ya'll reading that as skummy?

That, Jimmmmms reread, his general of disengagement, lack of helpfulness to town, that EFHW isn’t happening.

Later tonight, I'll try to reread some of galz and efhw, see if anything jumps out at me.

[Swowl]

People who voted for Glooble: cayvie, LaLight, MiX, Dylan

I kinda hoped to find some more.

unclear on the intentions behind this list. its day 1 in an 18 player game - completely NAI.

Glooble is the only known town we have, so those votes are more indicative of alignment than other votes. Would be more telling if the wagon was bigger, but hey - cayvie, LaLight, Dylan would all make better wagons than we have right now. And I guess MiX already is a wagon.

Sir faust - would you please explain to me why galz is a better vote than anyone you placed on this list?

[Dylan32]

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

I mean, you may be right, after all MiX himself seemed to suggest that there was something more going on. To me it just looked like the thing where people scumread someone because they accidentally wrote "scum" when they meant "town". Also MiX has done a lot more this game. I always find that zeroing in on perceived "scumslips" and not judging the whole performance of a player leads to bad results.

Sure, but this wasn't accidental. He repeated several times about spending 15 for reporter. Again, I may completely be going down the wrong path here, but this wasn't a type: MiX made an assumption that it costs 15 in his words "for some reason".

He admitted as much about making an assumption, and I don't think anyone has suggested it was a typo. He got a couple votes early particularly because of how many assumptions he made in that conversation. You're saying he would be more likely to project out from the scums' powers all costing 15. MiX is saying it's more likely that scum would have different cost abilities and so that's an unlikely assumption for scum to make.  Honestly, until we have more info, I don't think there's any point going down this path because there is a plausible narrative both ways.

I didn't realize I was still on MiX. Unvote.

[scolapasta]

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

I mean, you may be right, after all MiX himself seemed to suggest that there was something more going on. To me it just looked like the thing where people scumread someone because they accidentally wrote "scum" when they meant "town". Also MiX has done a lot more this game. I always find that zeroing in on perceived "scumslips" and not judging the whole performance of a player leads to bad results.

Sure, but this wasn't accidental. He repeated several times about spending 15 for reporter. Again, I may completely be going down the wrong path here, but this wasn't a type: MiX made an assumption that it costs 15 in his words "for some reason".

He admitted as much about making an assumption, and I don't think anyone has suggested it was a typo.

Faust did, in the msg I was responding to:

To me it just looked like the thing where people scumread someone because they accidentally wrote "scum" when they meant "town".

He got a couple votes early particularly because of how many assumptions he made in that conversation. You're saying he would be more likely to project out from the scums' powers all costing 15. MiX is saying it's more likely that scum would have different cost abilities and so that's an unlikely assumption for scum to make.  Honestly, until we have more info, I don't think there's any point going down this path because there is a plausible narrative both ways.

I didn't realize I was still on MiX. Unvote.

Well, I'm also saying (and this is just as important) that there should be some reason he would project that and I'm trying to hunt that down. "For some reason" is not good enough.

I mean yes it's true that if scum had different cost order special powers, scum!Mix would not make that assumption, but we don't need to consider that case, since MiX did make that assumption. That's not a logical counter argument.

[Rhand]

what about you, Rhand, what's your top 4 scums looking like?

I don’t know at this point. Faust’s handling of me has gotten me to a point where I keep procrastinating catching up in this game.
I’ll come back to it tomorrow, I promise.

Part of me is hoping faust is just cocky scum and that’s why he is like that.

[Dylan32]

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

joth (who imo is town) said this was the scum reaction he was looking for with that suggestion. I buy that.

Not a Dustrbringer, sadly, and although my first instinct was (much like other folks) to decry this plan, the more I think about it the more I see the value. Scum basically has to consider the tradeoff of allowing a Dustbringer to live to try to get our investigative roles versus killing off a potentially huge danger of allowing the Vigis to shoot their shot.

As Vig is my favorite role, I know well how with a little luck a Vig can absolutely dominate a game, so... yeah. I think this puts scum in an awkward place.

All of chair's logic hear flows from scum's perspective. His first thought was to decry this plan (much like he did the D1 no lynch), but as he thought about it from scum's perspective he came around and went with it. Sounds like he knew the towny thing to do was try to stop the plan, but after thinking about it realized there was enough of a justification that town might be ok with it and so went along with it in order to out potential dustbringers.

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

Good question, cayvie. Townpoints, since I would've expected it to be the same as if 0 inverters targeted.

Giving townpoints for this question feels like they knew they needed a reason to give a townread on someone, and they saw this question as a good enough reason rather than something town would actually give townpoints for.

If I see what chairs was talking about, I don't think the townslip is actually town-idicative. It gives info, but not alignment.

Vote: chairs

ppe 2

[Dylan32]

The fact that you don't agree that this is at least a reason to be suspicious of MiX is weird. The fact that you didn't check if it was actually reasonable with any combo of 5 before suggesting that is weird.

I get that I could be following a red herring. But to be so dismissive of this - including "this is bad" seems itself suspicious.

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

I mean, you may be right, after all MiX himself seemed to suggest that there was something more going on. To me it just looked like the thing where people scumread someone because they accidentally wrote "scum" when they meant "town". Also MiX has done a lot more this game. I always find that zeroing in on perceived "scumslips" and not judging the whole performance of a player leads to bad results.

Sure, but this wasn't accidental. He repeated several times about spending 15 for reporter. Again, I may completely be going down the wrong path here, but this wasn't a type: MiX made an assumption that it costs 15 in his words "for some reason".

He admitted as much about making an assumption, and I don't think anyone has suggested it was a typo.

Faust did, in the msg I was responding to:

To me it just looked like the thing where people scumread someone because they accidentally wrote "scum" when they meant "town".

He got a couple votes early particularly because of how many assumptions he made in that conversation. You're saying he would be more likely to project out from the scums' powers all costing 15. MiX is saying it's more likely that scum would have different cost abilities and so that's an unlikely assumption for scum to make.  Honestly, until we have more info, I don't think there's any point going down this path because there is a plausible narrative both ways.

I didn't realize I was still on MiX. Unvote.

Well, I'm also saying (and this is just as important) that there should be some reason he would project that and I'm trying to hunt that down. "For some reason" is not good enough.

I mean yes it's true that if scum had different cost order special powers, scum!Mix would not make that assumption, but we don't need to consider that case, since MiX did make that assumption. That's not a logical counter argument.

1) I don't think that's what faust is saying there. His point is that it looked like the times where someone makes an easily explainable, almost trivial mistake and other people latch onto it as a "scumslip" and get tunnel vision on that one thing in spite of the body of work the suspect has done through the rest of the game.

2) Yeah, we do. Say there are two theories to explain a certain event. Theory A requires something, let's call it P, to be true. P only has a slim chance of being true. It is not irrelevant to consider how likely the case that not P is true, as if it is determined that not P is true, then Theory A cannot be true.  Theory A is that MiX saw the scumteam's abilities and projected out that all special role powers cost 15.  This would only be true if, P, the whole scum team has nothing but 15 cost special powers.  The likelihood that Theory A is true is affected by how likely you think P is.  I have seen 1 special ability, and it does not cost 15. I guess I can trust that Mix is telling the truth that at least his is 15.  So for the abilities I "know," it's 50/50 on if a given person's ability costs 15. Obviously there is a huge amount of uncertainty there, but from my perspective, choosing 3 or more people is going to be fairly likely to pick at least 1 person with a not 15 cost ability. Thus, I don't think theory A is the best explanation for the assumption.

[Swowl]

what about you, Rhand, what's your top 4 scums looking like?

I don’t know at this point. Faust’s handling of me has gotten me to a point where I keep procrastinating catching up in this game.
I’ll come back to it tomorrow, I promise.

Part of me is hoping faust is just cocky scum and that’s why he is like that.

there is no tomorrow. DL is in like 18 hours or something.

[Rhand]

what about you, Rhand, what's your top 4 scums looking like?

I don’t know at this point. Faust’s handling of me has gotten me to a point where I keep procrastinating catching up in this game.
I’ll come back to it tomorrow, I promise.

Part of me is hoping faust is just cocky scum and that’s why he is like that.

there is no tomorrow. DL is in like 18 hours or something.

10 pm here. Still have half a day tomorrow

[chairs]

Time to consolidate wagons. Past time really, I suppose, but we haven’t gotten anywhere wagony that I can see on anyone except maybe on me 

[scolapasta]

what about you, Rhand, what's your top 4 scums looking like?

I don’t know at this point. Faust’s handling of me has gotten me to a point where I keep procrastinating catching up in this game.
I’ll come back to it tomorrow, I promise.

Part of me is hoping faust is just cocky scum and that’s why he is like that.

there is no tomorrow. DL is in like 18 hours or something.

I think that's tomorrow for the Euro folks.

[Swowl]

what about you, Rhand, what's your top 4 scums looking like?

I don’t know at this point. Faust’s handling of me has gotten me to a point where I keep procrastinating catching up in this game.
I’ll come back to it tomorrow, I promise.

Part of me is hoping faust is just cocky scum and that’s why he is like that.

there is no tomorrow. DL is in like 18 hours or something.

10 pm here. Still have half a day tomorrow

ok cool, wasn't trying to push, just wanted to make sure you knew!

[EFHW]

Responses to Jimmmmm:

I was always ready to explain why I voted Hypercube, but no one really asked.  Basically, it was because he was absent and then because this post felt off to me because all of these points had been made. So it felt like he was looking for things to say without having much to say himself, which would be scum's situation.

I think the way Dylan claimed is towny; with that said I think making people claim Dustbringer or not was (and still is) a good plan given that the threat a scum Dustbringer poses is pretty large. If a scum Dustbringer exists we should make them either start lying now or be accountable for their actions.

The MiX vote was a gut reaction which didn't recur later when I came back to it, so I abandoned that wagon.

The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.

With the pro-Town thing, are you talking about #954? Is there a reason why it's scummy, or is this just a vote to express your disagreement? Why in particular would scum complain about a 3rd party not being pro-Town?

Non-town could try to look towny by protesting anti-town behavior vigorously. I don't know if Eddie's behavior is anti-town because I haven't managed to understand the benefit of the plan, but methinks she doth protest too much.

Quote from: EFHW on June 10, 2020, 07:52:48 am
Why wouldn't a town!neighbor tell us the whole story of what Eddie wanted?

What are you trying to gain from this? Surely if Town neighbours are keeping quiet it's because they have a reason to. Do you think any scum among them would be caught out if they had to open up about it (genuine question)? I doubt that any scum not aligned with Eddie (whether or not he's 3rd party) have given anything away to him they didn't want to.

I realize it's better to let town players make their own decisions about what to reveal, but all the coyness made me think that these aren't all town players. Or maybe I felt left out. I don't think I expected a particular outcome. But I wanted to create some pressure. Town players can take it. Scum players and Eddie might get antsy. I was also concerned because with the exception of scolapasta at 964, people seemed to be taking Eddie and his neighbors all at face value.

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

Are you saying that Dylan is scummy for this, or just that it's not a Townslip?

Both

[EFHW]

Jimmmmm- I really appreciate all of the heavy lifting you’re doing in the rereads. It’s really helpful.

How has it helped you?

Because everything is there together in a handy dandy wall post...especially helpful for mobile when control-f rereads are impossible.

Yes, they are helpful. But why is he doing them? I don't remember this level of Day 1 effort from Jimmmmm, like ever.

[EFHW]

huh, interesting.

it feels like wagons have had a tough-ish time forming today. but EFHW in particular has seemed to be almost allergic to wagons, despite widespread suspicion upon her from many players (myself, WCD, faust, jimmmmm, GHS off the top of my head)

I had this thought as well.  It definitely makes my spidey-senses tingle

This is not a meaningful observation. So the same people expressing suspicion are my scum partners? Or other people should be voting for me based on their cases even though the people having the suspicions aren't themselves voting for me (with the exception of Didds)? Furthermore, this is an 18 player game. How many scum partners do you think I would have to have to make reluctance to vote for me be so widespread?

[scolapasta]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

I'm not arguing that the special order power is what Didds ignored as being part of a fullclaim, I'm arguing that she forgot that you can have powers completely unrelated to your order.

You're not looking too good here either.

Care to explain this more? It reads like you're claiming town has more powers than surge powers + order special power. Is that what you're saying?

[EFHW]

huh, interesting.

it feels like wagons have had a tough-ish time forming today. but EFHW in particular has seemed to be almost allergic to wagons, despite widespread suspicion upon her from many players (myself, WCD, faust, jimmmmm, GHS off the top of my head)

I had this thought as well.  It definitely makes my spidey-senses tingle

I don't like how opportunistic this response feels.

[Glooble]

I've had an incredibly busy day at work, but its probably just as well since now that I'm IC scum can hide behind my vote, so just as well not to have one currently.

Anyhow I will catch up and be around at deadline.

[scolapasta]

1) I don't think that's what faust is saying there. His point is that it looked like the times where someone makes an easily explainable, almost trivial mistake and other people latch onto it as a "scumslip" and get tunnel vision on that one thing in spite of the body of work the suspect has done through the rest of the game.

2) Yeah, we do. Say there are two theories to explain a certain event. Theory A requires something, let's call it P, to be true. P only has a slim chance of being true. It is not irrelevant to consider how likely the case that not P is true, as if it is determined that not P is true, then Theory A cannot be true.  Theory A is that MiX saw the scumteam's abilities and projected out that all special role powers cost 15.  This would only be true if, P, the whole scum team has nothing but 15 cost special powers.  The likelihood that Theory A is true is affected by how likely you think P is.  I have seen 1 special ability, and it does not cost 15. I guess I can trust that Mix is telling the truth that at least his is 15.  So for the abilities I "know," it's 50/50 on if a given person's ability costs 15. Obviously there is a huge amount of uncertainty there, but from my perspective, choosing 3 or more people is going to be fairly likely to pick at least 1 person with a not 15 cost ability. Thus, I don't think theory A is the best explanation for the assumption.

OK I see your point about what he was trying to say. I don't agree with it and I don't think my continued effort to understand MiX's assumptions here is trivial.

I definitely don't agree with your number 2, in that I don't think you're saying the same thing MiX is saying.

That said, I do think knowing the probability of P (that scum order special powers are all 15) would be useful. While scum may now lie, I'm thinking that we all claim the cost of our special power. I don't think that gives away anything particularly useful?

(I'm, also aware that we probably won't get enough info here in order to build the MiX wagon until at least D2)

[WestCoastDidds]

Jimmmmm- I really appreciate all of the heavy lifting you’re doing in the rereads. It’s really helpful.

How has it helped you?

Because everything is there together in a handy dandy wall post...especially helpful for mobile when control-f rereads are impossible.

Yes, they are helpful. But why is he doing them? I don't remember this level of Day 1 effort from Jimmmmm, like ever.

He said earlier (I’m on my phone so I can’t go find it) that since he is on the complete opposite time zone of the rest of the game that he can’t keep up with the pages of content we generate while he’s asleep, and we’re not on when he’s on, so asking/answering questions isn’t all that helpful, so he’s doing ISOs instead.

I think from an information management perspective, it’s an innovative solution to the size of the game, 

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

[WestCoastDidds]

huh, interesting.

it feels like wagons have had a tough-ish time forming today. but EFHW in particular has seemed to be almost allergic to wagons, despite widespread suspicion upon her from many players (myself, WCD, faust, jimmmmm, GHS off the top of my head)

I had this thought as well.  It definitely makes my spidey-senses tingle

I don't like how opportunistic this response feels.

Whelp, that makes us even, I guess.

[scolapasta]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

[MiX]

I confirm what Didds said.

Do you want me to show where I claimed that? It was something like I was questioning faust if he was actually saying that, in a way that claimed that I didn't have any.

[Swowl]

1) I don't think that's what faust is saying there. His point is that it looked like the times where someone makes an easily explainable, almost trivial mistake and other people latch onto it as a "scumslip" and get tunnel vision on that one thing in spite of the body of work the suspect has done through the rest of the game.

2) Yeah, we do. Say there are two theories to explain a certain event. Theory A requires something, let's call it P, to be true. P only has a slim chance of being true. It is not irrelevant to consider how likely the case that not P is true, as if it is determined that not P is true, then Theory A cannot be true.  Theory A is that MiX saw the scumteam's abilities and projected out that all special role powers cost 15.  This would only be true if, P, the whole scum team has nothing but 15 cost special powers.  The likelihood that Theory A is true is affected by how likely you think P is.  I have seen 1 special ability, and it does not cost 15. I guess I can trust that Mix is telling the truth that at least his is 15.  So for the abilities I "know," it's 50/50 on if a given person's ability costs 15. Obviously there is a huge amount of uncertainty there, but from my perspective, choosing 3 or more people is going to be fairly likely to pick at least 1 person with a not 15 cost ability. Thus, I don't think theory A is the best explanation for the assumption.

OK I see your point about what he was trying to say. I don't agree with it and I don't think my continued effort to understand MiX's assumptions here is trivial.

I definitely don't agree with your number 2, in that I don't think you're saying the same thing MiX is saying.

That said, I do think knowing the probability of P (that scum order special powers are all 15) would be useful. While scum may now lie, I'm thinking that we all claim the cost of our special power. I don't think that gives away anything particularly useful?

(I'm, also aware that we probably won't get enough info here in order to build the MiX wagon until at least D2)

I believe I agree with the part about SP cost claiming... minus the fact that it would tell skum who has the SPs. Maybe we could work this into the claim to Eddie bit?

but what are we basing the concept of "all skum has special powers on?" I could be missing something, but is this just like an assumption or has someone actually claimed to have this info?

[scolapasta]

1) I don't think that's what faust is saying there. His point is that it looked like the times where someone makes an easily explainable, almost trivial mistake and other people latch onto it as a "scumslip" and get tunnel vision on that one thing in spite of the body of work the suspect has done through the rest of the game.

2) Yeah, we do. Say there are two theories to explain a certain event. Theory A requires something, let's call it P, to be true. P only has a slim chance of being true. It is not irrelevant to consider how likely the case that not P is true, as if it is determined that not P is true, then Theory A cannot be true.  Theory A is that MiX saw the scumteam's abilities and projected out that all special role powers cost 15.  This would only be true if, P, the whole scum team has nothing but 15 cost special powers.  The likelihood that Theory A is true is affected by how likely you think P is.  I have seen 1 special ability, and it does not cost 15. I guess I can trust that Mix is telling the truth that at least his is 15.  So for the abilities I "know," it's 50/50 on if a given person's ability costs 15. Obviously there is a huge amount of uncertainty there, but from my perspective, choosing 3 or more people is going to be fairly likely to pick at least 1 person with a not 15 cost ability. Thus, I don't think theory A is the best explanation for the assumption.

OK I see your point about what he was trying to say. I don't agree with it and I don't think my continued effort to understand MiX's assumptions here is trivial.

I definitely don't agree with your number 2, in that I don't think you're saying the same thing MiX is saying.

That said, I do think knowing the probability of P (that scum order special powers are all 15) would be useful. While scum may now lie, I'm thinking that we all claim the cost of our special power. I don't think that gives away anything particularly useful?

(I'm, also aware that we probably won't get enough info here in order to build the MiX wagon until at least D2)

I believe I agree with the part about SP cost claiming... minus the fact that it would tell skum who has the SPs. Maybe we could work this into the claim to Eddie bit?

but what are we basing the concept of "all skum has special powers on?" I could be missing something, but is this just like an assumption or has someone actually claimed to have this info?

I did forget about 3rd party, who would also likely choose to lie. But I don't think it reveals anything at all about town:
(from setup)

"1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant"

"In addition, each Order has access to 1 role power that is unique to their Order."

[Swowl]

1) I don't think that's what faust is saying there. His point is that it looked like the times where someone makes an easily explainable, almost trivial mistake and other people latch onto it as a "scumslip" and get tunnel vision on that one thing in spite of the body of work the suspect has done through the rest of the game.

2) Yeah, we do. Say there are two theories to explain a certain event. Theory A requires something, let's call it P, to be true. P only has a slim chance of being true. It is not irrelevant to consider how likely the case that not P is true, as if it is determined that not P is true, then Theory A cannot be true.  Theory A is that MiX saw the scumteam's abilities and projected out that all special role powers cost 15.  This would only be true if, P, the whole scum team has nothing but 15 cost special powers.  The likelihood that Theory A is true is affected by how likely you think P is.  I have seen 1 special ability, and it does not cost 15. I guess I can trust that Mix is telling the truth that at least his is 15.  So for the abilities I "know," it's 50/50 on if a given person's ability costs 15. Obviously there is a huge amount of uncertainty there, but from my perspective, choosing 3 or more people is going to be fairly likely to pick at least 1 person with a not 15 cost ability. Thus, I don't think theory A is the best explanation for the assumption.

OK I see your point about what he was trying to say. I don't agree with it and I don't think my continued effort to understand MiX's assumptions here is trivial.

I definitely don't agree with your number 2, in that I don't think you're saying the same thing MiX is saying.

That said, I do think knowing the probability of P (that scum order special powers are all 15) would be useful. While scum may now lie, I'm thinking that we all claim the cost of our special power. I don't think that gives away anything particularly useful?

(I'm, also aware that we probably won't get enough info here in order to build the MiX wagon until at least D2)

I believe I agree with the part about SP cost claiming... minus the fact that it would tell skum who has the SPs. Maybe we could work this into the claim to Eddie bit?

but what are we basing the concept of "all skum has special powers on?" I could be missing something, but is this just like an assumption or has someone actually claimed to have this info?

I did forget about 3rd party, who would also likely choose to lie. But I don't think it reveals anything at all about town:
(from setup)

"1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant"

"In addition, each Order has access to 1 role power that is unique to their Order."

yeah I mean I was talking about 3rd party. which as much as some people have argued against... as it is a 18 player RMM... I assume there are some of those.

Thought I guess claiming the cost doesn't hurt? But like what does it gain?

[MiX]

Cost claiming is bad, it outs Orders to scum.

[Swowl]

Like in the end how does it pan out?

Skum lies, or tell the truth... whatever no way of telling.
Town tells the truth.
Now skum knows all and town has to guess who is lying about costs?

I actually change my mind, I don't really see the point in a public claim here.

PPE - yeah, what mix said

[chairs]

Heh. I hit reply to say cost claiming is bad and y’all beat me to it

[Jimmmmm]

Yes, they are helpful. But why is he doing them? I don't remember this level of Day 1 effort from Jimmmmm, like ever.

Not much time this morning, but I'll quickly respond to this.

This is an obvious point that was always going to be made sooner or later. I'm very aware that I have a reputation as a lurker (particularly early), and I don't like that reputation one bit (I also care more about my Mafia reputation since trying to make LynchPool a thing). Every game I start I think, "Let's not lurk this game" but I still fall behind and have trouble catching up. Reading 100 posts at a time just doesn't do it for me. This game I came up with a pretty good plan and have somewhat followed through with it, although I still feel like I'm generally 1-2 days behind.

While I'm definitely trying to win, my biggest motivation is to justify my existence in the game. I believe I'm more than capable of replicating my meta, even posting just enough to avoid a lurker lynch, if avoiding being lynched was my top priority.

[scolapasta]

I confirm what Didds said.

Do you want me to show where I claimed that? It was something like I was questioning faust if he was actually saying that, in a way that claimed that I didn't have any.

OK, found it #836. I did wonder if that's what you were claiming there, since it was phrased as a question "..does anyone else have powers outside the Order?"

So you're confirming now that your only powers are the surge powers plus the special order power?

[scolapasta]

Cost claiming is bad, it outs Orders to scum.

How so?

We already know that all town are in Orders (and scum too). So the only people who do not have orders are 3rd party. They'd probably lie anyway, so all scum would know is people saying costs. The costs by themselves do not out any particular order.

Like in the end how does it pan out?

Skum lies, or tell the truth... whatever no way of telling.
Town tells the truth.
Now skum knows all and town has to guess who is lying about costs?

I actually change my mind, I don't really see the point in a public claim here.

PPE - yeah, what mix said

This maybe a little more. i.e town won't know which costs are real and which are not. But we can assume out of 18 that X are town, so that means X are real. And I do think that could be useful (mostly in trying to prove my case against MiX).

What does scum learn? Well, some of the answers will still be lies (3rd party). But they will know that X (out of Y, where Y is 18 - # of scum) are true. But what will that really tell them? Does it really help them if they know my power costs 5, 10, 30, or 50?

i.e. I don't see what we really risk revealing, while I think we either find evidence for or against MiX).

[MiX]

Cost claiming is bad, it outs Orders to scum.

How so?

We already know that all town are in Orders (and scum too). So the only people who do not have orders are 3rd party. They'd probably lie anyway, so all scum would know is people saying costs. The costs by themselves do not out any particular order.

Like in the end how does it pan out?

Skum lies, or tell the truth... whatever no way of telling.
Town tells the truth.
Now skum knows all and town has to guess who is lying about costs?

I actually change my mind, I don't really see the point in a public claim here.

PPE - yeah, what mix said

This maybe a little more. i.e town won't know which costs are real and which are not. But we can assume out of 18 that X are town, so that means X are real. And I do think that could be useful (mostly in trying to prove my case against MiX).

What does scum learn? Well, some of the answers will still be lies (3rd party). But they will know that X (out of Y, where Y is 18 - # of scum) are true. But what will that really tell them? Does it really help them if they know my power costs 5, 10, 30, or 50?

i.e. I don't see what we really risk revealing, while I think we either find evidence for or against MiX).

It tells scum who can be in what order.

Also we should be scumhunting, not third-party hunting. If we want a third-party dead, there's always Eddie out there.

[scolapasta]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

[MiX]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

Anyone with a cost different from 5 isn't a Dustbringer. Anyone with a cost different from mine isn't my order. Anyone with a cost different from a specific order scum knows of isn't of that order.

[EFHW]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

[EFHW]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

He didn’t ask about powers. He asked for house and order. According to Dylan, he needed house and order to fulfill the task, and become a real boy. There was no discussion about powers, so injecting that into what he asked us to claim, and then saying I should have done it, or known about it..... it just seems like you are looking reasons to oppose me instead of trying to understand what went down, and I was sharing the information to help other people try to understand what went down.

[Swowl]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

Anyone with a cost different from 5 isn't a Dustbringer. Anyone with a cost different from mine isn't my order. Anyone with a cost different from a specific order scum knows of isn't of that order.

Have you claimed how much your SP costs?

[scolapasta]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

Anyone with a cost different from 5 isn't a Dustbringer. Anyone with a cost different from mine isn't my order. Anyone with a cost different from a specific order scum knows of isn't of that order.

OK, that's fair. I don't think that is actually much of a reveal as I think there are probably at most 2-3 of any order anyway. I have no evidence - just that there are 10 orders and at most 18 knights. And while some orders may not be in the game, more orders do allow for more special powers, so setup wise I imagine there's more of a mix (no pun intended) than less.

[Dylan32]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

He didn’t ask about powers. He asked for house and order. According to Dylan, he needed house and order to fulfill the task, and become a real boy. There was no discussion about powers, so injecting that into what he asked us to claim, and then saying I should have done it, or known about it..... it just seems like you are looking reasons to oppose me instead of trying to understand what went down, and I was sharing the information to help other people try to understand what went down.

That's the things he asked me about, but when I asked about his wincon, he did not specify that claiming those two things would flip him. From our convo, I'm not sure what degree of detail is involved in whatever full claim he needed.

[scolapasta]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

[Swowl]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

I mailed all the hats to ash last game, you gotta come up with something else.

[scolapasta]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

He didn’t ask about powers. He asked for house and order. According to Dylan, he needed house and order to fulfill the task, and become a real boy. There was no discussion about powers, so injecting that into what he asked us to claim, and then saying I should have done it, or known about it..... it just seems like you are looking reasons to oppose me instead of trying to understand what went down, and I was sharing the information to help other people try to understand what went down.

That's the things he asked me about, but when I asked about his wincon, he did not specify that claiming those two things would flip him. From our convo, I'm not sure what degree of detail is involved in whatever full claim he needed.

Let's ask him: Eddie what do you need to flip your alignment? (also, once flipped, can it be changed again?)

[WestCoastDidds]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

I mailed all the hats to ash last game, you gotta come up with something else.

Hahahahahahahahahahah

[MiX]

Oh did he eat them anything I thought...

...I thought about a lot of things that game. The ones that mattered were correct. The others were wrong.

[Dylan32]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

I mailed all the hats to ash last game, you gotta come up with something else.

Hahahahahahahahahahah

Ditto

[EFHW]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

Reporter is not particularly powerful and 15 was the lowest cost across all the orders.

[MiX]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

Reporter is not particularly powerful and 15 was the lowest cost across all the orders.

Is this a "MiX is scum" narrative? Because it's a good one.

[EFHW]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

[cayvie]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

What is your position? Is this about mix's alignment?

[EFHW]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

What is your position? Is this about mix's alignment?

I still think the 5 vs 15 issue is NAI.

[cayvie]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

What is your position? Is this about mix's alignment?

I still think the 5 vs 15 issue is NAI.

So do you have an opinion on mix's alignment, 5 vs 15 or otherwise?

[Greathallscout]

(Almost) Everything costs at least 15...so I just assumed the Reporter thing did.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Why did you assume Dylan's posting power cost 15?

A true answer to this is a soft claim.

contradiction?

[faust]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

I'm not arguing that the special order power is what Didds ignored as being part of a fullclaim, I'm arguing that she forgot that you can have powers completely unrelated to your order.

You're not looking too good here either.

Care to explain this more? It reads like you're claiming town has more powers than surge powers + order special power. Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

[faust]

I see we've not gotten any closer to finding a lynch. Great.

Instead we're talking about claiming, which is absolutely pointless less than 24 hours before the deadline. And beating the dead horse MiX and his cost assumption.

[faust]

I believe that scolapasta is genuine, even if his content is anti-town at the moment.

EFHW, however, has been the biggest detractor from consolidation here. Her vote remains on Didds, who noone else is voting for, and she continues to participate in all this pointless talk rather than trying to find a good lynch.

I am now ready to

Vote: EFHW

[MiX]

(Almost) Everything costs at least 15...so I just assumed the Reporter thing did.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Why did you assume Dylan's posting power cost 15?

A true answer to this is a soft claim.

contradiction?

The difference between the above answer and the true answer exists.

[faust]

faust's makeshift vote count

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32
GreatHallScout (1): Rhand
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
hypercube (2): MiX, chairs
Uncleeurope (1): LaLight
MiX (1): scolapasta
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (3): WestCoastDidds, cayvie, faust
Galzria (1): Jimmmmm

Not Voting (3): GreatHallScout, Swowl, Glooble

[Jimmmmm]

Alright, let's see what the viable wagons are!

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32 (L-7)
GreatHallScout (1): Rhand
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
hypercube (2): MiX, chairs
Uncleeurope (1): LaLight
MiX (1): scolapasta
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (2): cayvie, faust
Galzria (2): Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (3): GreatHallScout, Swowl, Glooble


...Well that's a mess.

I haven't caught up on today's posts yet, but at this stage I'd join the EFHW wagon, and also the chairs one in order to get a lynch. Haven't re-read hypercube yet. Unfortunately deadline is at 5am Saturday morning for me, so I'm not likely to be around for any kind of last minute shuffling; I'll need to park my vote before bed.


PPE Didds voted Galz in #1104.

[Jimmmmm]

Wow, that's not a lot of townreads. Did you focus on your scumreads for rereading?

No, I think I'm just naturally hesitant to give Townpoints. I didn't notice until I collected them here.

[Jimmmmm]

I like Jimmmmm's case on EFHW, but I can't help but think scum!EFHW would do different things...it all looks so bad of her to push what she's pushing and vote where she's voting, surely as scum she would know this, right? I think it's town not trying to look townie while pursuing their reads.

I absolutely need to reread hypercube and Galzria to see which one's scum. I've been putting off rereads for too long.

Few thoughts:

First, full disclosure I townslipped and I’m sorry since I’m probably dying N1 for it.

Second, vote count please. I know I’m frustrated with cube and I think there’s scum there but I would rather lynch anybody than nobody and we’ve been incredibly diffuse today.

Lol where?

Basically have to full claim for an explanation

I'm pretty sure that's not how Townslips work...

[Jimmmmm]

I'm actually very much looking forward to Jim's read of MiX, to see if he (or frankly anyone) has opinions on this.

I was kind of hoping to avoid this, and seeing as he's not one of the big 2- or 3-person wagons, I might leave it until Day 2 (if we're both still alive of course).

[Jimmmmm]

Although having said that, I have said that I don't really buy any of the scumslip arguments. I don't really buy scumslips in general.

[faust]

So thoughts:

Rhand, Eddie, Galzria, LaLight, scolapasta, EFHW: Consider yourselves publicly shamed. Jimmmmm gets a pass because I only recently moved away from Galzria.

Greathallscout, Swowl: You're worse than the above. Get your asses in here and vote.

What is the last activity of these people? Maybe we can issue some prods.

Rhand needs to catch up. Fine, but please do it soon. I am sorry if my way of playing the game irritated you, that was not the intention.
Eddie has legit not done any scumhunting since all the Glooble shenanigans. I would still consider him as a fallback lynch, but I guess the IC says no. But still we require some evidence that you're actually working with town, so do something.
Galzria has done nothing this game except throw shade at me. At least his next best option is EFHW. So now's the time to get in here and switch, since you are obviously not interested in convincing other people to vote for me.
LaLight, your vote is on an IC-disapproved "wagon". Switch. Being stubborn doesn't help us right now.
scolapasta: Your need to drop your MiX obsession or argue a broader case, since clearly your "15 v 5" argument doesn't stick.
EFHW, as said, should starting doing something instead of actilurking.
GHS, now is not the time to figure out what's going on with Eddie. Eddie is not going to be lynched, and you need to show us some scumreads of yours, rather than hedging on scola's MiX argument.
Swowl has spent some time arguing against he only thing resembling a wagon we had at the time (Galzria)... like fine if you townread him, whatever, but the best way to not get him lynched is to start another wagon.

Rant over. PPE:5

[faust]

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32 (L-7)

lol

[MiX]

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32 (L-7)

lol

The townslip man is the plurality lynch, got it.

By the way, what do you think of chairs? Saying that you townslipped is townie, but it could also be a way to lose a wagon.

[faust]

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32 (L-7)

lol

The townslip man is the plurality lynch, got it.

By the way, what do you think of chairs? Saying that you townslipped is townie, but it could also be a way to lose a wagon.

chairs is town. Like, that may be a scum play, but it's not a scum!chairs play.

[Jimmmmm]

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32 (L-7)

lol

Gotta make sure we don't derphammer.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm gets a pass because I only recently moved away from Galzria.

Also I'm here with Didds.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, sorry about that, some pretty huge IRL stuff happened on Tuesday, which has left my life a bit hectic.

I will happily hammer the leading wagon come deadline.

Until then I will Vote: EFHW

Haven’t had time to read anything other than Faust losing his mind.

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

[Jimmmmm]

Sure, looks like this is far more likely than Galz. Vote: EFHW (L-5)

[hypercube]

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32 (L-7)

lol

The townslip man is the plurality lynch, got it.

By the way, what do you think of chairs? Saying that you townslipped is townie, but it could also be a way to lose a wagon.

chairs is town. Like, that may be a scum play, but it's not a scum!chairs play.

I guess I'll trust you on this for now.

I'd like to vote for Dylan, but since that doesn't seem to be happening I'm fine with vote: EFHW.

[MiX]

Vote: Galzria

Competing wagons!

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: Galzria

Competing wagons!

Not really, I'm off it now so it's you and Didds. Would move back if it got more support though.

[faust]

inb4 random person coming in like "I'm worried how quickly the EFHW wagon grew...."

[MiX]

Vote: Galzria

Competing wagons!

Not really, I'm off it now so it's you and Didds. Would move back if it got more support though.

Dang. No good wagon goes to 3 people now, does it...

Yep, just chairs. Damn EoD.

Vote: EFHW

inb4 random person coming in like "I'm worried how quickly the EFHW wagon grew...."

"I'm worried how quickly EFHW got lynched" is going to be my first D2 post.

[faust]

chairs (3): hypercube, jotheonah, Dylan32 (L-7)

lol

Gotta make sure we don't derphammer.

Yep, sorry, didn't see Didds's vote.

[LaLight]

vote: EFHW

[LaLight]

don't publicly shame me

[Greathallscout]

GHS, now is not the time to figure out what's going on with Eddie. Eddie is not going to be lynched, and you need to show us some scumreads of yours, rather than hedging on scola's MiX argument.

The eddie question was 24 hours before the deadline.
I do want to lynch Eddie because cant get a good read on anyone D1. That being said i kowtow to glooble and the wagons.
I wasn't hedging- I actually think the 15-5 is a bad argument. I saw a contradiction.

Vote: Galzria

[LaLight]

Galzria lynch is a bad lynch, that's what I think. Same with chairs. EFHW is fine though

[Greathallscout]

@lallight What did EFHW do that you think is scummy? I see nothing.

[faust]

don't publicly shame me

Sorry. The way this day is going has me grumpier than usual, which is not a good state to be in given my baseline grumpiness.

[Rhand]

I'm here and catching up. How long until deadline?

[MiX]

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020. That's in just over 24 hours.

In about 8 hours.

[Rhand]

So. Faust. Is it normal for him to refuse to answer? Is that part of his town!meta?
His read on me made no progression but he sticks to it like a fly to gum.

Everything I read from him gives me town vibes, but this is decidedly anti-town and I don't know what to think about it.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

[MiX]

So. Faust. Is it normal for him to refuse to answer? Is that part of his town!meta?
His read on me made no progression but he sticks to it like a fly to gum.

Everything I read from him gives me town vibes, but this is decidedly anti-town and I don't know what to think about it.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

Yes, it is. faust is tight-lipped as any alignment.

faust is only pro-town when he feels like it.

[Rhand]

Just finished reading page 32 of 41ish.

Vote: hypercube

So this vote is here to indicate that you couldn't think of a reason why town had to know what happens if two alignment inverters target the same person?

vote: chairs

It seems more likely to me that Eddie is town or a town-friendly third party than that he's scum, so I'm OK with going along with whatever plan he and Glooble have.

We know Eddie is 3P that can change alignment, right?
This post is weird. Reads to me like hypercube knows Eddie isn't mafia and forgot he's 3P.

[Jimmmmm]

So. Faust. Is it normal for him to refuse to answer? Is that part of his town!meta?
His read on me made no progression but he sticks to it like a fly to gum.

Everything I read from him gives me town vibes, but this is decidedly anti-town and I don't know what to think about it.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

I'd just leave it alone. I'm pretty sure faust isn't on the menu Today and I haven't seen any indication that you are, so I'd suggest putting your focus on those who might be.

[MiX]

Just finished reading page 32 of 41ish.

Vote: hypercube

So this vote is here to indicate that you couldn't think of a reason why town had to know what happens if two alignment inverters target the same person?

vote: chairs

It seems more likely to me that Eddie is town or a town-friendly third party than that he's scum, so I'm OK with going along with whatever plan he and Glooble have.

We know Eddie is 3P that can change alignment, right?
This post is weird. Reads to me like hypercube knows Eddie isn't mafia and forgot he's 3P.

Indeed. Want to vote hypercube? I can ditch this EFHW mislynch.

In fact, I will.

Vote: hypercube

[Rhand]

vote: hypercube

[Rhand]

So. Faust. Is it normal for him to refuse to answer? Is that part of his town!meta?
His read on me made no progression but he sticks to it like a fly to gum.

Everything I read from him gives me town vibes, but this is decidedly anti-town and I don't know what to think about it.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

I'd just leave it alone. I'm pretty sure faust isn't on the menu Today and I haven't seen any indication that you are, so I'd suggest putting your focus on those who might be.

I don't want faust to be on the menu. He's probably just town. But I want him to be productive and share why he thinks what he thinks.

[faust]

faust is only pro-town when he feels like it.

And I always feel like it

[MiX]

faust is only pro-town when he feels like it.

And I always feel like it

Most of the time, yes.

I presume you wanted Rhand to answer your question, but he took it as a rhetorical one, so now we're here.

Is hypercube scum?

[hypercube]

Just finished reading page 32 of 41ish.

Vote: hypercube

So this vote is here to indicate that you couldn't think of a reason why town had to know what happens if two alignment inverters target the same person?

vote: chairs

It seems more likely to me that Eddie is town or a town-friendly third party than that he's scum, so I'm OK with going along with whatever plan he and Glooble have.

We know Eddie is 3P that can change alignment, right?
This post is weird. Reads to me like hypercube knows Eddie isn't mafia and forgot he's 3P.

We don't know that Eddie can change alignment; unless I've missed something he's been avoiding that question. If he can change alignment then possibly he could be mafia-aligned.

I lumped "Eddie has always been mafia" together with "Eddie has changed alignment to mafia" and "Eddie is a third party which can't win with town" together as "Eddie is scum" because they're all the same with respect to if we should trust him.

[faust]

So. Faust. Is it normal for him to refuse to answer? Is that part of his town!meta?
His read on me made no progression but he sticks to it like a fly to gum.

Everything I read from him gives me town vibes, but this is decidedly anti-town and I don't know what to think about it.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

I'd just leave it alone. I'm pretty sure faust isn't on the menu Today and I haven't seen any indication that you are, so I'd suggest putting your focus on those who might be.

I don't want faust to be on the menu. He's probably just town. But I want him to be productive and share why he thinks what he thinks.

Why do you think it is productive for me to share my reasons for suspecting you? How does it help town?

[MiX]

We don't know that Eddie can change alignment; unless I've missed something he's been avoiding that question. If he can change alignment then possibly he could be mafia-aligned.

I lumped "Eddie has always been mafia" together with "Eddie has changed alignment to mafia" and "Eddie is a third party which can't win with town" together as "Eddie is scum" because they're all the same with respect to if we should trust him.

You also lumped "Eddie is a third-party that can win with town" with "Eddie is town" which is questionable.

[faust]

Is hypercube scum?

Nah. I mean, he might be, but it's not a good lynch today.

[Rhand]

So. Faust. Is it normal for him to refuse to answer? Is that part of his town!meta?
His read on me made no progression but he sticks to it like a fly to gum.

Everything I read from him gives me town vibes, but this is decidedly anti-town and I don't know what to think about it.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

Are you ever going to explain why exactly you think I’m scum?

Are you ever going to explain why exactly I should think you're town?

I'd just leave it alone. I'm pretty sure faust isn't on the menu Today and I haven't seen any indication that you are, so I'd suggest putting your focus on those who might be.

I don't want faust to be on the menu. He's probably just town. But I want him to be productive and share why he thinks what he thinks.

Why do you think it is productive for me to share my reasons for suspecting you? How does it help town?

* I'm town and you're demotivating me by taking potshots at me rather than engaging with me.
* If you think I am mafia, then not explaining why is not going to convince anyone else that I am.
* Town needs to get as much alignment-showing info in thread as possible because that's how we find mafia.
* If you don't explain me why you think i am mafia, you're not giving yourself the chance to re-evaluate me.

[hypercube]

We don't know that Eddie can change alignment; unless I've missed something he's been avoiding that question. If he can change alignment then possibly he could be mafia-aligned.

I lumped "Eddie has always been mafia" together with "Eddie has changed alignment to mafia" and "Eddie is a third party which can't win with town" together as "Eddie is scum" because they're all the same with respect to if we should trust him.

You also lumped "Eddie is a third-party that can win with town" with "Eddie is town" which is questionable.

True, I didn't consider then that he could be a survivor and win with either. That doesn't seem very likely at all though.

[MiX]

Rhand is the new Galzria. Give this man a D1, D2, D3, D4 and D5 pass, he is my IC and I shall sheep anything but his vote.

For evidence, well, he's butting heads with faust, what more do you want?

We don't know that Eddie can change alignment; unless I've missed something he's been avoiding that question. If he can change alignment then possibly he could be mafia-aligned.

I lumped "Eddie has always been mafia" together with "Eddie has changed alignment to mafia" and "Eddie is a third party which can't win with town" together as "Eddie is scum" because they're all the same with respect to if we should trust him.

You also lumped "Eddie is a third-party that can win with town" with "Eddie is town" which is questionable.

True, I didn't consider then that he could be a survivor and win with either. That doesn't seem very likely at all though.

Why wouldn't it be likely? He can just pretend to work with town.

[hypercube]

Rhand is the new Galzria. Give this man a D1, D2, D3, D4 and D5 pass, he is my IC and I shall sheep anything but his vote.

For evidence, well, he's butting heads with faust, what more do you want?

We don't know that Eddie can change alignment; unless I've missed something he's been avoiding that question. If he can change alignment then possibly he could be mafia-aligned.

I lumped "Eddie has always been mafia" together with "Eddie has changed alignment to mafia" and "Eddie is a third party which can't win with town" together as "Eddie is scum" because they're all the same with respect to if we should trust him.

You also lumped "Eddie is a third-party that can win with town" with "Eddie is town" which is questionable.

True, I didn't consider then that he could be a survivor and win with either. That doesn't seem very likely at all though.

Why wouldn't it be likely? He can just pretend to work with town.

Because his actions seem totally incompatible with survival being his only goal.

[faust]

* I'm town and you're demotivating me by taking potshots at me rather than engaging with me.

I may like to be a bit confrontational, but I don't see where I "took potshots at you". Being confrontational garners more reactions, and having reactions is pro-town.

* If you think I am mafia, then not explaining why is not going to convince anyone else that I am.

If you are town, then me convincing people that you're mafia would not exactly be pro-town, would it?

* Town needs to get as much alignment-showing info in thread as possible because that's how we find mafia.

I think I do a good amount of that in here without making a case on you. You are also refusing to explain to me why you're town, which would be more directly alignment-showing info.

* If you don't explain me why you think i am mafia, you're not giving yourself the chance to re-evaluate me.

I am giving myself plenty of chances at re-evaluation. If you want me to re-evaluate, you are free to make a case for why you are town.

[Rhand]

Rhand is the new Galzria. Give this man a D1, D2, D3, D4 and D5 pass, he is my IC and I shall sheep anything but his vote.

For evidence, well, he's butting heads with faust, what more do you want?

We don't know that Eddie can change alignment; unless I've missed something he's been avoiding that question. If he can change alignment then possibly he could be mafia-aligned.

I lumped "Eddie has always been mafia" together with "Eddie has changed alignment to mafia" and "Eddie is a third party which can't win with town" together as "Eddie is scum" because they're all the same with respect to if we should trust him.

You also lumped "Eddie is a third-party that can win with town" with "Eddie is town" which is questionable.

True, I didn't consider then that he could be a survivor and win with either. That doesn't seem very likely at all though.

Why wouldn't it be likely? He can just pretend to work with town.

Because his actions seem totally incompatible with survival being his only goal.

Being in a plan that helps town / convincing the IC that you're helping town while possibly aligning publicly with mafia in another QT makes sure neither side will kill you.

[MiX]

True, I didn't consider then that he could be a survivor and win with either. That doesn't seem very likely at all though.

Why wouldn't it be likely? He can just pretend to work with town.

Because his actions seem totally incompatible with survival being his only goal.

I guess that's...somewhat true. Okay.

PPE: Yes but in this meta sometimes you die by claiming third-party.

[Jimmmmm]

hypercube

None of his really early game particularly interest me; talk about cults and alignment changes and houses. Gives a few stances on people which is fine and good.

I don't want to comment on things related to Eddie before Eddie does, but rereading the part of the game where Dylan claimed made him look a lot worse than I remembered.

He seems uninterested in the benefits of identifying a potential scum Dustbringer or inhibiting their ability to use their powers, like here:

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

I don't think this point is saying anything other than finding someone scummy for disagreeing about something.

I think that if a town!Dustbringer claimed here they would be more likely to want to force a claim from any other Dustbringers. They'd understand that the Dustbringer powers are pretty scum-sided and that since they're town an other Dustbringer is more likely to be scum.

People have very different ideas about what claiming plans should happen; this is far more of an individual thing than it is an alignment tell. And the second part is either a probability fallacy or an unfounded assumption about how roles/alignments were distributed.

Here he says he didn't considered the possibility of a scum Dustbringer at all:

Ooh, good point. Yeah, I think it would work that way. However, this is assuming that scum could roll this order. A scum with extra vig power does seem maybe unbalanced. And looking back, I don't see anything that says whether the alignment of individuals in a given order is random or assigned or random in limited fashion, only that the numbers in each are random.

He explains this oversight with a misunderstanding of the setup, which doesn't say that the numbers are random, just that they aren't uniform across the orders. It's certainly possible for someone to misread the setup, but less likely that they'd misread it again after going back to correct themself.

I don't think this was an oversight or a misreading. I think "Can scum be Vigs?" is a very reasonable question to ponder, and he checked the setup to see if there was anything to indicate they couldn't and found nothing.

I also don't think that there was a pressing force for him to claim when he did; less than half of everyone had claimed at that point. If he had serious objections to claiming he had time to bring them up and be convinced that a scum Dustbringer could exist. I think it's more likely that he's scum and claimed in hopes that that would make him look towny.

vote: Dylan

Well sure, there was no one saying "Dylan it's your turn to claim", but if the number of claimers was approaching half of the players, then the claiming is well and truly happening.

Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.

Questions != scumread. cayvie's questions (that I found): "hey Dylan, what's this?", "why is pushing back on this impossible?" (etc, to Galz), "was [message] the message you had the mods post... could you have made the mods post [anything you wanted]?". She also mentioned that scum can work together to claim Dustbringer. The only question I'm seeing that could be more than just information-seeking is the one to Galz, and well at least two people agreed that it was too late to prevent the claiming. So I'm not sure what would lead you to believe that cayvie should have scumread Dylan for this.

So... I don't really agree with any of this post.

Do you think he's not a Dustbringer?

If he's scum it's possible he's not a Dustbringer and someone else on the scum team is. That's less likely than him just being a scum Dustbringer though.

The first sentence seems to be a hugely unlikely conspiracy theory. If Dylan flips scum non-Dustbringer then we know one of his teammates is one. If someone else flips scum Dustbringer then we can ask Dylan to re-prove his reporter ability. Scum don't tell lies that can easily be found out just for the sake of it. Of course scum Dustbringer is more likely, but that just makes the claim NAI.


So, I disagree with a lot of hypercube's reasons for voting, but how much that correlates to scumminess I'm still trying to figure out. Seems like a fine lynch.

[Rhand]

* I'm town and you're demotivating me by taking potshots at me rather than engaging with me.

I may like to be a bit confrontational, but I don't see where I "took potshots at you". Being confrontational garners more reactions, and having reactions is pro-town.

* If you think I am mafia, then not explaining why is not going to convince anyone else that I am.

If you are town, then me convincing people that you're mafia would not exactly be pro-town, would it?

* Town needs to get as much alignment-showing info in thread as possible because that's how we find mafia.

I think I do a good amount of that in here without making a case on you. You are also refusing to explain to me why you're town, which would be more directly alignment-showing info.

* If you don't explain me why you think i am mafia, you're not giving yourself the chance to re-evaluate me.

I am giving myself plenty of chances at re-evaluation. If you want me to re-evaluate, you are free to make a case for why you are town.

Asking town why they're town is creating useless busywork. What do you want me to do? Iso my own posts and quote them for you?
If you would explain why you think I'm mafia you give me the chance to argue why I am not AND others the chance to look into your reasons and decide if you're right. It ticks both boxes.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

This post was a potshot.

[Jimmmmm]

That's all I'm putting into this game for Today. I'll still be around for about another hour, so I can change my vote to support whichever acceptable wagon seems most likely, but then I'll probably be gone until after deadline.

[hypercube]

Rhand is the new Galzria. Give this man a D1, D2, D3, D4 and D5 pass, he is my IC and I shall sheep anything but his vote.

For evidence, well, he's butting heads with faust, what more do you want?

We don't know that Eddie can change alignment; unless I've missed something he's been avoiding that question. If he can change alignment then possibly he could be mafia-aligned.

I lumped "Eddie has always been mafia" together with "Eddie has changed alignment to mafia" and "Eddie is a third party which can't win with town" together as "Eddie is scum" because they're all the same with respect to if we should trust him.

You also lumped "Eddie is a third-party that can win with town" with "Eddie is town" which is questionable.

True, I didn't consider then that he could be a survivor and win with either. That doesn't seem very likely at all though.

Why wouldn't it be likely? He can just pretend to work with town.

Because his actions seem totally incompatible with survival being his only goal.

Being in a plan that helps town / convincing the IC that you're helping town while possibly aligning publicly with mafia in another QT makes sure neither side will kill you.

I don't see how that's a sustainable plan, neither town nor mafia would trust him unless he's consistently doing something concrete to help them. For example if the IC uses him to coordinate night actions, mafia will expect him to give them that information.

PPE 2

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah, that does not sound like the way to survive long term.

[EFHW]

I believe that scolapasta is genuine, even if his content is anti-town at the moment.

EFHW, however, has been the biggest detractor from consolidation here. Her vote remains on Didds, who noone else is voting for, and she continues to participate in all this pointless talk rather than trying to find a good lynch.

I am now ready to

Vote: EFHW

I stayed on Didds awhile longer than initially planned because she was adding new scumminess to the case. I recognize that she won't be the lynch today. Arguing against the MiX lynch is not wasting time, since arguments were still being made in favor of it. Your assessment is unfair.

PPE 5

[hypercube]

Re: Jimmmmm's reread of me, those are fair disagreements to have with my reasoning, although they don't convince me that Dylan is town. My comment about cayvie came from being surprised that she found Dylan's answers to her questions to be towny, while I found them to be pretty scummy.

[faust]

Asking town why they're town is creating useless busywork. What do you want me to do? Iso my own posts and quote them for you?
If you would explain why you think I'm mafia you give me the chance to argue why I am not AND others the chance to look into your reasons and decide if you're right. It ticks both boxes.

I do not think it's useless busywork. You have the most awareness of your own play, surely you can tell me what actions you took that you wouldn't as scum? Knowing what you think is townie for you also establishes a frame of reference for your meta, which is useful particularly as you are new to the site.

With the second part your true motivation shines through: You want me to post a case so you can argue against it. Which helps noone because it's trivially easy for scum to argue against any case on them, especially D1. That is useless busywork. Also right now I am more interested in how others read you when they don't have something to sheep or disagree with. It's easy to say "yes, that's a good case" or "no, it's weak", it is much more insightful if they are forced to come up with a read on their own.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

This post was a potshot.

Fair enough. I apologize.

[EFHW]

It was actually PPE 55. Busy night.

vote count please

[faust]

It was actually PPE 55. Busy night.

vote count please

You're the leading wagon, hypercube is the opposing one, and you're both quite a long shot from being lynched.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning friends!

I’ll move my vote when we get a vote count

[EFHW]

It was actually PPE 55. Busy night.

vote count please

You're the leading wagon, hypercube is the opposing one, and you're both quite a long shot from being lynched.

Yes, thank you. I was aware of these things. Are you scumreading my asking for a vote count now?

[faust]

It was actually PPE 55. Busy night.

vote count please

You're the leading wagon, hypercube is the opposing one, and you're both quite a long shot from being lynched.

Yes, thank you. I was aware of these things. Are you scumreading my asking for a vote count now?

I will be scumreading you if you use not having a vote count as an excuse for not doing anything (hi Didds!).

[MiX]

Good morning friends!

I’ll move my vote when we get a vote count

Vote Count 1.-1:

Not voting (18): Dylan32, LaLight, faust, MiX, hypercube, scolapasta, WestCoastDidds, Swowl, Rhand, cayvie,  jotheonah, EFHW, Uncleeurope, Galzria, GreatHallScout, chairs, Glooble, Jimmmmm

Disclaimer: it might be outdated.

[EFHW]

It was actually PPE 55. Busy night.

vote count please

You're the leading wagon, hypercube is the opposing one, and you're both quite a long shot from being lynched.

Yes, thank you. I was aware of these things. Are you scumreading my asking for a vote count now?

I will be scumreading you if you use not having a vote count as an excuse for not doing anything (hi Didds!).

Give me a break. Look at your own rant post. You mention a number of people less active and taking fewer stances than I have. When have I ever left town in the lurch at eod? I  wouldn't do that even as scum! I don't see you chiding Didds for waiting for a vote count ("Hi Didds!"). Oh, and you are cluttering the thread with your back and forth with Rhand.

[MiX]

It was actually PPE 55. Busy night.

vote count please

You're the leading wagon, hypercube is the opposing one, and you're both quite a long shot from being lynched.

Yes, thank you. I was aware of these things. Are you scumreading my asking for a vote count now?

I will be scumreading you if you use not having a vote count as an excuse for not doing anything (hi Didds!).

Give me a break. Look at your own rant post. You mention a number of people less active and taking fewer stances than I have. When have I ever left town in the lurch at eod? I  wouldn't do that even as scum! I don't see you chiding Didds for waiting for a vote count ("Hi Didds!"). Oh, and you are cluttering the thread with your back and forth with Rhand.

It gave me a strong townread on Rhand and deepens mine with faust, I see no waste of thread space, no more than my many many posts about nothing, including this one.

By the way, I'm taking a math exam as we speak, so my jokes will be nerdier as time goes on.

[faust]

It was actually PPE 55. Busy night.

vote count please

You're the leading wagon, hypercube is the opposing one, and you're both quite a long shot from being lynched.

Yes, thank you. I was aware of these things. Are you scumreading my asking for a vote count now?

I will be scumreading you if you use not having a vote count as an excuse for not doing anything (hi Didds!).

Give me a break. Look at your own rant post. You mention a number of people less active and taking fewer stances than I have. When have I ever left town in the lurch at eod? I  wouldn't do that even as scum! I don't see you chiding Didds for waiting for a vote count ("Hi Didds!"). Oh, and you are cluttering the thread with your back and forth with Rhand.

My "hi Didds" was calling her out for exactly that, you know. And I'm not keeping you from doing something productive now.

I thought addressing Rhand was important as his frustration of me lead him to be less active and thus negatively impacted the game. I thought me clarifying my position could remedy that.

[EFHW]

I mentioned the thread cluttering only because I was accused of doing that in scumhunting Didds and defending you.

[EFHW]

That was addressed to MiX,  btw.

[MiX]

I mentioned the thread cluttering only because I was accused of doing that in scumhunting Didds and defending you.

Yeah, well, okay.

Hey faust is this towny enough to drop EFHW and join the merry hyper wagon?

[chairs]

Huh. I swapped my vote because I thought the cube wagon wasn’t going to be a thing. Now it’s a thing.

Vote: hypercube

[Glooble]

Vote: hypercube

[faust]

I mentioned the thread cluttering only because I was accused of doing that in scumhunting Didds and defending you.

Yeah, well, okay.

Hey faust is this towny enough to drop EFHW and join the merry hyper wagon?

No.

[MiX]

Vote: hypercube

IC approved wagon here we go boysssss.

If he flips scum I'm taking the towncred, no questions asked. If he flips town and EFHW flips scum I'm taking the scumcred.

[WestCoastDidds]

I mentioned the thread cluttering only because I was accused of doing that in scumhunting Didds and defending you.

Yeah, well, okay.

Hey faust is this towny enough to drop EFHW and join the merry hyper wagon?

Can you summarize your hyper case? I was feeling it when the Cult Leader stuff was going down, but since then?

I see EFHW tunneling me over and over again by holding onto things that have been discussed and laid to rest (the full claim “slip”). To me, it feels aggressive in a way that goes beyond confirmation bias. But since I am the target, I know It’s not scumhunting, so then I wonder if it’s really scummy.

[MiX]

I mentioned the thread cluttering only because I was accused of doing that in scumhunting Didds and defending you.

Yeah, well, okay.

Hey faust is this towny enough to drop EFHW and join the merry hyper wagon?

Can you summarize your hyper case? I was feeling it when the Cult Leader stuff was going down, but since then?

I see EFHW tunneling me over and over again by holding onto things that have been discussed and laid to rest (the full claim “slip”). To me, it feels aggressive in a way that goes beyond confirmation bias. But since I am the target, I know It’s not scumhunting, so then I wonder if it’s really scummy.

I can ISO him and point out scummy posts, but if I had to say why I'm scumreading him it would be a lot of gut. He doesn't seem to be developing, doesn't seem to try to be better (he has returned from a long hiatus, right? why don't I see that?), I don't see pushes on people he thinks are scum, just low hanging fruit like scumslips and third-party hunting, I can't remember a single read that wasn't based on a single post nor any gut read, he's trying to "solve" Uncle in a way scum would, by determining if he's town or third-party, instead of scum or third-party. And overall I've had a gut scumread on him early on that never died out.

[WestCoastDidds]

Cool, thanks.

I really like hyper. He started playing around when I did, but he’s been gone for a while and I’d like him to come back. But the only game where I played really well, I think, was one where I found hyper early and then we won. And that was all on gut.

[Galzria]

* I'm town and you're demotivating me by taking potshots at me rather than engaging with me.

I may like to be a bit confrontational, but I don't see where I "took potshots at you". Being confrontational garners more reactions, and having reactions is pro-town.

* If you think I am mafia, then not explaining why is not going to convince anyone else that I am.

If you are town, then me convincing people that you're mafia would not exactly be pro-town, would it?

* Town needs to get as much alignment-showing info in thread as possible because that's how we find mafia.

I think I do a good amount of that in here without making a case on you. You are also refusing to explain to me why you're town, which would be more directly alignment-showing info.

* If you don't explain me why you think i am mafia, you're not giving yourself the chance to re-evaluate me.

I am giving myself plenty of chances at re-evaluation. If you want me to re-evaluate, you are free to make a case for why you are town.

Asking town why they're town is creating useless busywork. What do you want me to do? Iso my own posts and quote them for you?
If you would explain why you think I'm mafia you give me the chance to argue why I am not AND others the chance to look into your reasons and decide if you're right. It ticks both boxes.

LL? Really?

I would be ok with MiX.

Of course you would.

This post was a potshot.

I wouldn’t bother arguing with him. He thinks he’s above everyone else. What he’s doing to you is literally exactly what he’s attempted to shame me for doing to him (see: “Galzria has done nothing this game except throw shade at me. At least his next best option is EFHW. So now's the time to get in here and switch, since you are obviously not interested in convincing other people to vote for me.”).

This is why faust is scum this game. He’s actively engaging in discrediting players and not arguments. His response to me earlier was derision and dismissal, rather than debating points made. Cayvie even called him on it at the time.

[faust]

I wouldn’t bother arguing with him. He thinks he’s above everyone else. What he’s doing to you is literally exactly what he’s attempted to shame me for doing to him (see: “Galzria has done nothing this game except throw shade at me. At least his next best option is EFHW. So now's the time to get in here and switch, since you are obviously not interested in convincing other people to vote for me.”).

This is why faust is scum this game. He’s actively engaging in discrediting players and not arguments. His response to me earlier was derision and dismissal, rather than debating points made. Cayvie even called him on it at the time.

I don't know where you've got this terrible image of me.

I'm not judging you for not making a case on me; I'm just saying, you didn't make an effort to convince people, I'm not getting lynched, so your vote is not in a useful place. I was not trying to convince people on Rhand, and so when noone else joined there I moved my vote. I am merely asking you to do the same.

[jotheonah]

I'm in for a vote: faust actually. Galzria articulated it better than I could, but he is definitely pinging my "scum!faust" radar a bit.

[MiX]

I'm in for a vote: faust actually. Galzria articulated it better than I could, but he is definitely pinging my "scum!faust" radar a bit.

Oh you're hyper's partner! Awesome, I thought I had to do a whole D2 after this.

[jotheonah]

ok, that was a kneejerk before having caught up on the thread. now that I am caught up I am seeing that an EFHW vote would be more useful from me. I have to admit I'm not super-feeling that case. Anyone want to try and convince me real quick?

[jotheonah]

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

[EFHW]

ok, that was a kneejerk before having caught up on the thread. now that I am caught up I am seeing that an EFHW vote would be more useful from me. I have to admit I'm not super-feeling that case. Anyone want to try and convince me real quick?

You're voting faust and considering switching to me?

[Galzria]

vote: EFHW. Will do Cube if needed.

[EFHW]

Didn't get a PPE, sorry.

I'm good with voting hyper. Would really like to see the count. I'll try to estimate it.

PPE 1

[EFHW]

Looks like Hypercube and I are both at 6 votes.

Vote: Hyper

[hypercube]

I mentioned the thread cluttering only because I was accused of doing that in scumhunting Didds and defending you.

Yeah, well, okay.

Hey faust is this towny enough to drop EFHW and join the merry hyper wagon?

Can you summarize your hyper case? I was feeling it when the Cult Leader stuff was going down, but since then?

I see EFHW tunneling me over and over again by holding onto things that have been discussed and laid to rest (the full claim “slip”). To me, it feels aggressive in a way that goes beyond confirmation bias. But since I am the target, I know It’s not scumhunting, so then I wonder if it’s really scummy.

I can ISO him and point out scummy posts, but if I had to say why I'm scumreading him it would be a lot of gut. He doesn't seem to be developing, doesn't seem to try to be better (he has returned from a long hiatus, right? why don't I see that?), I don't see pushes on people he thinks are scum, just low hanging fruit like scumslips and third-party hunting, I can't remember a single read that wasn't based on a single post nor any gut read, he's trying to "solve" Uncle in a way scum would, by determining if he's town or third-party, instead of scum or third-party. And overall I've had a gut scumread on him early on that never died out.

Eh, people read me as low-effort all the time since I'm terse, that's NAI. I'm never going to be the person who writes extended treatises on stuff.

Anyways with Glooble voting for me I may as well claim now. I'm a Windrunner and House Kholin. I'll claim the Windrunner special ability if there's some need to. I have a squire who is also a Windrunner, they'll lose their role powers upon my death.

[Rhand]

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This vote... if hypercube flips town, jotheonah needs to be looked at toMorrow.

[Rhand]

I mentioned the thread cluttering only because I was accused of doing that in scumhunting Didds and defending you.

Yeah, well, okay.

Hey faust is this towny enough to drop EFHW and join the merry hyper wagon?

Can you summarize your hyper case? I was feeling it when the Cult Leader stuff was going down, but since then?

I see EFHW tunneling me over and over again by holding onto things that have been discussed and laid to rest (the full claim “slip”). To me, it feels aggressive in a way that goes beyond confirmation bias. But since I am the target, I know It’s not scumhunting, so then I wonder if it’s really scummy.

I can ISO him and point out scummy posts, but if I had to say why I'm scumreading him it would be a lot of gut. He doesn't seem to be developing, doesn't seem to try to be better (he has returned from a long hiatus, right? why don't I see that?), I don't see pushes on people he thinks are scum, just low hanging fruit like scumslips and third-party hunting, I can't remember a single read that wasn't based on a single post nor any gut read, he's trying to "solve" Uncle in a way scum would, by determining if he's town or third-party, instead of scum or third-party. And overall I've had a gut scumread on him early on that never died out.

Eh, people read me as low-effort all the time since I'm terse, that's NAI. I'm never going to be the person who writes extended treatises on stuff.

Anyways with Glooble voting for me I may as well claim now. I'm a Windrunner and House Kholin. I'll claim the Windrunner special ability if there's some need to. I have a squire who is also a Windrunner, they'll lose their role powers upon my death.

Do you know who the squire is? (Not asking who it is, just if you know)

[hypercube]

I do know who it is.

[Rhand]

I do know who it is.

Do they know who you are? Do you have a chat?

[Glooble]

What's a squire? I don't remember reading that part.

Also pls don't sheep me I literally just voted cause work continued to be busy and I wasn't sure I'd be on for deadline and cube looked most likely to go through.

Also cause I remembered scumreading hyper earlier in the day.

[hypercube]

I do know who it is.

Do they know who you are? Do you have a chat?

Yes, we have a QT.

[hypercube]

Squires aren't in the setup so don't waste your time looking for that.

[Rhand]

Squires aren't in the setup so don't waste your time looking for that.

Do you think your squire is town?

[jotheonah]

Unofficial vote count

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (6): chairs, MiX, Rhand, Glooble, jotheonah, EFHW
MiX (1): scolapasta
EFHW (7): cayvie, faust, UncleEurope, Jimmmmm, hypercube, LaLight, Galzria
Galzria (1): WCD

Not Voting (2): GreatHallScout, Swowl

[jotheonah]

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This vote... if hypercube flips town, jotheonah needs to be looked at toMorrow.

settin up them mislynches?

[hypercube]

Squires aren't in the setup so don't waste your time looking for that.

Do you think your squire is town?

Yes, they seem towny to me.

[jotheonah]

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

[Rhand]

Squires aren't in the setup so don't waste your time looking for that.

Do you think your squire is town?

Yes, they seem towny to me.

What about this then?

Setup Information

1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant

[Rhand]

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This vote... if hypercube flips town, jotheonah needs to be looked at toMorrow.

settin up them mislynches?

If that’s what you think, shouldn’t you be very uncomfortable staying on this wagon?

[hypercube]

Squires aren't in the setup so don't waste your time looking for that.

Do you think your squire is town?

Yes, they seem towny to me.

What about this then?

Setup Information

1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant

Without quoting my QT I have to say it describes them as a partial Knight Radiant.

[hypercube]

"Junior Knight Radiant" would be a better paraphrase.

[jotheonah]

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This vote... if hypercube flips town, jotheonah needs to be looked at toMorrow.

settin up them mislynches?

If that’s what you think, shouldn’t you be very uncomfortable staying on this wagon?

TBH not the most comfortable with either wagon, but what you gonna do? The fact is that if we lynch hypercube there will be 10 people responsible, including you, and it really rubs me the wrong way that you're already trying to single me out as scummy. I don't see that as a thing a town player does in this moment. But hey, I don't know you.

[jotheonah]

Now that cube has claimed, I kind of want to hear a claim from EFHW. So we can judge their merits against each other.

[Rhand]

"Junior Knight Radiant" would be a better paraphrase.

Ok so possible scenario’s:

Hypercube and his squire are both town. If cube gets killed, town loses 2 PR’s. That’s big punishment. Basically a “win more” situation for mafia.

Hypercube is town, his squire is mafia. Killing Hypercube costs mafia a PR. That’s strange design.

Hypercube is mafia, his squire is town. Killing the mafia makes town a bit weaker by costing a PR. This scenario makes most sense.

The Squire is third party. A 3P possibly losing its powers makes for a very unpleasant role to play.

@Everyone: looking at the powers (roleblock, rolestop, lightning rod, watcher), how many windrunners can town have within balance?

[Rhand]

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This vote... if hypercube flips town, jotheonah needs to be looked at toMorrow.

settin up them mislynches?

If that’s what you think, shouldn’t you be very uncomfortable staying on this wagon?

TBH not the most comfortable with either wagon, but what you gonna do? The fact is that if we lynch hypercube there will be 10 people responsible, including you, and it really rubs me the wrong way that you're already trying to single me out as scummy. I don't see that as a thing a town player does in this moment. But hey, I don't know you.

The vote is scummy if he is town. I don’t think he is though.
I’m not saying I want you lynched for it, just that you deserve to be looked into if he’s town.

[Glooble]

"Junior Knight Radiant" would be a better paraphrase.

Ok so possible scenario’s:

Hypercube and his squire are both town. If cube gets killed, town loses 2 PR’s. That’s big punishment. Basically a “win more” situation for mafia.

Hypercube is town, his squire is mafia. Killing Hypercube costs mafia a PR. That’s strange design.

Hypercube is mafia, his squire is town. Killing the mafia makes town a bit weaker by costing a PR. This scenario makes most sense.

The Squire is third party. A 3P possibly losing its powers makes for a very unpleasant role to play.

@Everyone: looking at the powers (roleblock, rolestop, lightning rod, watcher), how many windrunners can town have within balance?

I don't know their special power, but based on what we do know it looks like its on the weaker side.

[hypercube]

"Junior Knight Radiant" would be a better paraphrase.

Ok so possible scenario’s:

Hypercube and his squire are both town. If cube gets killed, town loses 2 PR’s. That’s big punishment. Basically a “win more” situation for mafia.

Hypercube is town, his squire is mafia. Killing Hypercube costs mafia a PR. That’s strange design.

Hypercube is mafia, his squire is town. Killing the mafia makes town a bit weaker by costing a PR. This scenario makes most sense.

The Squire is third party. A 3P possibly losing its powers makes for a very unpleasant role to play.

@Everyone: looking at the powers (roleblock, rolestop, lightning rod, watcher), how many windrunners can town have within balance?

For this analysis to be accurate I suppose I do need to claim that the special Windrunner power is Bodyguard, so my squire has a way to protect me.

[Greathallscout]

Unofficial vote count

Galzria (1): WCD

Not Voting (2): GreatHallScout, Swowl

I'm on Galz.

[Rhand]

"Junior Knight Radiant" would be a better paraphrase.

Ok so possible scenario’s:

Hypercube and his squire are both town. If cube gets killed, town loses 2 PR’s. That’s big punishment. Basically a “win more” situation for mafia.

Hypercube is town, his squire is mafia. Killing Hypercube costs mafia a PR. That’s strange design.

Hypercube is mafia, his squire is town. Killing the mafia makes town a bit weaker by costing a PR. This scenario makes most sense.

The Squire is third party. A 3P possibly losing its powers makes for a very unpleasant role to play.

@Everyone: looking at the powers (roleblock, rolestop, lightning rod, watcher), how many windrunners can town have within balance?

I don't know their special power, but based on what we do know it looks like its on the weaker side.

I see roleblock and watcher as strong roles though?
There is ninja and strengthener as counters, but using those helps us look for the right people.

[hypercube]

I'm having a friend over to barbeque shortly, so I'll only be phone-available until deadline.

[chairs]

Unofficial vote count

Galzria (1): WCD

Not Voting (2): GreatHallScout, Swowl

I'm on Galz.

Was that unofficial vote count anything but a joke? Or did you edit the quote to not include the other 15 people?

[Greathallscout]

@chairs trying to refrain from wallpost

[Greathallscout]

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

my kneejerk is that it is sincere. i feel like there are other ways of claiming to get a wagon to cool especially if there is another one going on. And this claim can be proven.

[Rhand]

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

my kneejerk is that it is sincere. i feel like there are other ways of claiming to get a wagon to cool especially if there is another one going on. And this claim can be proven.

I’m pretty sure he has a squire. But that doesn’t make him town.

The bodyguard interaction is cute though, that raises the t/t chances a bit.
Still, how many watchers and roleblockers can 1 town have to remain balanced?

[faust]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

[Greathallscout]

Squires aren't in the setup so don't waste your time looking for that.

Do you think your squire is town?

Yes, they seem towny to me.

What about this then?

Setup Information

1. All players that start out as Town- and Mafia-aligned are Knights Radiant

Without quoting my QT I have to say it describes them as a partial Knight Radiant.

based on the book i think it would be a stretch to call a squire a Knight-radiant at all. That being said i agree that the squire as a third party seems weak. And as i said in my last post- it seems sincere so I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm leaning on swallowing the theme.

[faust]

Still, how many watchers and roleblockers can 1 town have to remain balanced?

I don't think that's a good argument. Most of the Surges are pretty powerful, and yet we know that all townies have access to 2 of them. Having 2 Watcher/Roleblockers is not more or less balanced than having a Watcher/Roleblocker and a Cop/Doctor.

[Rhand]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

What is your guess on max. number of windrunners in town?

[faust]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

What is your guess on max. number of windrunners in town?

13.

[Rhand]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

What is your guess on max. number of windrunners in town?

13.

Sigh. I don’t know why I even bother.

[faust]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

What is your guess on max. number of windrunners in town?

13.

Sigh. I don’t know why I even bother.

I just don't think outguessing the mod is useful here. We do not have nearly enough information on the setup, we don't even know how many scum there are. How can we make meaningful estimates for how many of a particular role there are?

[Glooble]

How long do we have until deadline?

[chairs]

How long do we have until deadline?

Not long. Vote for EFHW or cube.

[Rhand]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

What is your guess on max. number of windrunners in town?

13.

Sigh. I don’t know why I even bother.

I just don't think outguessing the mod is useful here. We do not have nearly enough information on the setup, we don't even know how many scum there are. How can we make meaningful estimates for how many of a particular role there are?

Ohh a real answer. Thanks
I see roleblocker / watcher / cop as the strongest available town abilities because they can net scum. So my expectation is that we’re not going to be overloaded on those in town power.

But ok, I respect your pov.

[WestCoastDidds]

Glooble, deadline is at 3 Forum Time

vote: EFHW should put her at L-2, according to Joth's unofficial VC. (Yams should be getting up and around soon for the official one)

Hyper's claim has some towniness to it, and there is a squire that can vouch for him. although they could both be scum, but that would sucks for scum to lose both in a single lynch, so not likely.

I am really trying to be fair in my read of EFHW. A claim would help, but she's the boss of her, so we'll see...

PPE 1

[faust]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

What is your guess on max. number of windrunners in town?

13.

Sigh. I don’t know why I even bother.

I just don't think outguessing the mod is useful here. We do not have nearly enough information on the setup, we don't even know how many scum there are. How can we make meaningful estimates for how many of a particular role there are?

Ohh a real answer. Thanks
I see roleblocker / watcher / cop as the strongest available town abilities because they can net scum. So my expectation is that we’re not going to be overloaded on those in town power.

But ok, I respect your pov.

Which orders do you expect that we have a lot of to make up for that?

[Glooble]

3 pm forum time is 5 hours? That doesn't track with estimates in earlier vote counts.

[mail-mi]

"Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us."

—Collected on Palahakev 1173, 16 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a Thaylen sailor

Vote Count 1.9

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (6): chairs, MiX, Rhand, Glooble, jotheonah, EFHW
MiX (1): scolapasta
EFHW ( 8 ): cayvie, faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, hypercube, LaLight, Galzria, WestCoastDidds {L-2}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout

Not Voting (1): Swowl,

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020. That's in about 4 hours.

[MiX]

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

I thought Windrunners would have a squire. Read the wiki, it's there. He's read the source material, I'll give him that. And by source material I mean the wiki.

I could've made this exact fakeclaim. Any reason not to claim who the squire is? They can Bodyguard you after all.

[hypercube]

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

I thought Windrunners would have a squire. Read the wiki, it's there. He's read the source material, I'll give him that. And by source material I mean the wiki.

I could've made this exact fakeclaim. Any reason not to claim who the squire is? They can Bodyguard you after all.

Why would I make them claim?

vote: Mix

[MiX]

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

I thought Windrunners would have a squire. Read the wiki, it's there. He's read the source material, I'll give him that. And by source material I mean the wiki.

I could've made this exact fakeclaim. Any reason not to claim who the squire is? They can Bodyguard you after all.

Why would I make them claim?

vote: Mix

Why are you voting me? You're right, I didn't think it through.

Why are you town? Why should we believe you're town?

[hypercube]

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

I thought Windrunners would have a squire. Read the wiki, it's there. He's read the source material, I'll give him that. And by source material I mean the wiki.

I could've made this exact fakeclaim. Any reason not to claim who the squire is? They can Bodyguard you after all.

Why would I make them claim?

vote: Mix

Why are you voting me? You're right, I didn't think it through.

Why are you town? Why should we believe you're town?

I'm voting for you because I know I'm town, and your efforts to get me lynched have progressed past scumhunting into reaching.

Why am I town? Because I know a cult is a much bigger threat to town than scum, for one. I wouldn't have bothered risking all those claims of third party hunting against me as scum.

[MiX]

I'm voting for you because I know I'm town, and your efforts to get me lynched have progressed past scumhunting into reaching.

Why am I town? Because I know a cult is a much bigger threat to town than scum, for one. I wouldn't have bothered risking all those claims of third party hunting against me as scum.

Uh...no. Just...the opposite of yes.

Lemme ISO you and be right back.

[Rhand]

I think the claim looks good. It seems like a difficult thing to lie about. He could still be scum with that role, I guess, but there are better lynches.

What is your guess on max. number of windrunners in town?

13.

Sigh. I don’t know why I even bother.

I just don't think outguessing the mod is useful here. We do not have nearly enough information on the setup, we don't even know how many scum there are. How can we make meaningful estimates for how many of a particular role there are?

Ohh a real answer. Thanks
I see roleblocker / watcher / cop as the strongest available town abilities because they can net scum. So my expectation is that we’re not going to be overloaded on those in town power.

But ok, I respect your pov.

Which orders do you expect that we have a lot of to make up for that?

Edgedancers and Elsecallers maybe.

[hypercube]

Other points against MiX:

The only defence against voting for EFHW and insisting it's a mislynch is "too scummy to be scum."

Chairs didn't townslip, and insisting he did was possibly out of fear of missing a real township.

[MiX]

Other points against MiX:

The only defence against voting for EFHW and insisting it's a mislynch is "too scummy to be scum."

Chairs didn't townslip, and insisting he did was possibly out of fear of missing a real township.

Oh my, I can't have gut townreads anymore, how dare I.

What does chairs have to do with me.

The (incomplete) reread tells me you're town. So please start acting like it. Your D1 is terrible and you know it. Can you vote scum now? And no, that won't be EFHW. You think you're the scum counterwagon?

Oh, I guess you do since you think I'm scum.

[jotheonah]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

[MiX]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

The claim is good because it's the truth. This is exactly what Windrunners would do. Do you think he's lying? He would be caught eventually. In fact, any other Windrunner could counterclaim right now!

[LaLight]

@lallight What did EFHW do that you think is scummy? I see nothing.

she's just not townie enough unlike the alternatives

[Rhand]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

The claim is good because it's the truth. This is exactly what Windrunners would do. Do you think he's lying? He would be caught eventually. In fact, any other Windrunner could counterclaim right now!

What would another Windrunner be counterclaiming then?

[MiX]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

The claim is good because it's the truth. This is exactly what Windrunners would do. Do you think he's lying? He would be caught eventually. In fact, any other Windrunner could counterclaim right now!

What would another Windrunner be counterclaiming then?

If it's a lie, they can...you know...call him out on a lie.

[Rhand]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

The claim is good because it's the truth. This is exactly what Windrunners would do. Do you think he's lying? He would be caught eventually. In fact, any other Windrunner could counterclaim right now!

What would another Windrunner be counterclaiming then?

If it's a lie, they can...you know...call him out on a lie.

You think him having a squire means all Windrunners have one?

[Galzria]

vote: Cube

It’s not impossible that his dying cost Town 2 PR’s, but it feels more balanced that he and his squire would be of opposing alignment. Sadly I think it makes more sense for him to be Town & his Squire to be scum (disincentivizing scum from killing him at night), but as we don’t know the identity of his Squire... And it certainly works with him as scum and his squire as Town too - as a way to balance a potential scum death, although there would be nothing to hurt scum in killing his Squire in this situation. I very, very much doubt they’re both scum.

[Rhand]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

Hm this confirms joth isn’t mafia with cube or his squire.

[LaLight]

is it me or a lot of people behave toxic? I don't know, feeling unfriendly atmosphere in thread.

[faust]

vote: Cube

It’s not impossible that his dying cost Town 2 PR’s, but it feels more balanced that he and his squire would be of opposing alignment. Sadly I think it makes more sense for him to be Town & his Squire to be scum (disincentivizing scum from killing him at night), but as we don’t know the identity of his Squire... And it certainly works with him as scum and his squire as Town too - as a way to balance a potential scum death, although there would be nothing to hurt scum in killing his Squire in this situation. I very, very much doubt they’re both scum.

I'm confused. Most of this post looks like arguments against lynching hypercube?

- possibility of losing 2 town PRs
- we know that he's part of a pairing who are not both scum
- the other part of that pairing is more likely scum

[faust]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

Hm this confirms joth isn’t mafia with cube or his squire.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it confirms him as not mafia with cube. If scum want to bus someone, surely it would the player that also lets them disable a town PR by dying?

[MiX]

is it me or a lot of people behave toxic? I don't know, feeling unfriendly atmosphere in thread.

People are going at each other's throats. I know I'm fighting with hypercube. Don't worry, there's still 3 hours to this day, that's enough to mislynch Awaclus get the thread sane again and ready to lynch scum.

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

Hm this confirms joth isn’t mafia with cube or his squire.

Why?

[WestCoastDidds]

is it me or a lot of people behave toxic? I don't know, feeling unfriendly atmosphere in thread.

Its not you. I feel it, too

[Rhand]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

Hm this confirms joth isn’t mafia with cube or his squire.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it confirms him as not mafia with cube. If scum want to bus someone, surely it would the player that also lets them disable a town PR by dying?

He’s assuming the whole claim is fake or the squire is scum too.
He’s not entertaining the “claim is true but only cube (or only the squire) is scum” option.
If one of them is scum and joth is too, he would not have ignored that option.

[faust]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

Hm this confirms joth isn’t mafia with cube or his squire.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it confirms him as not mafia with cube. If scum want to bus someone, surely it would the player that also lets them disable a town PR by dying?

He’s assuming the whole claim is fake or the squire is scum too.
He’s not entertaining the “claim is true but only cube (or only the squire) is scum” option.
If one of them is scum and joth is too, he would not have ignored that option.

Hm yeah that makes some sense actually. Not sure I would call it slam dunk, but I can see where you're coming from.

[Rhand]

@MiX can we continue the conversation about Windrunners please? #1319

[Galzria]

vote: Cube

It’s not impossible that his dying cost Town 2 PR’s, but it feels more balanced that he and his squire would be of opposing alignment. Sadly I think it makes more sense for him to be Town & his Squire to be scum (disincentivizing scum from killing him at night), but as we don’t know the identity of his Squire... And it certainly works with him as scum and his squire as Town too - as a way to balance a potential scum death, although there would be nothing to hurt scum in killing his Squire in this situation. I very, very much doubt they’re both scum.

I'm confused. Most of this post looks like arguments against lynching hypercube?

- possibility of losing 2 town PRs
- we know that he's part of a pairing who are not both scum
- the other part of that pairing is more likely scum

- Possible, but so is them both being scum. Maybe slightly more likely, but I don’t necessarily think either is accurate.
- We don’t know that. I don’t anyway. Do you? I suspect it, sure. That’s different than knowing.
- Yes. I think the Squire is more likely to be scum than Cube. I have no way of forcing Cube to claim his Squire’s identity though.

{Scum!Squire, Town!Cube} > {Town!Squire, Scum!Cube} > {Town!Squire, Town!Cube} > {Scum!Squire, Scum!Cube}

[faust]

is it me or a lot of people behave toxic? I don't know, feeling unfriendly atmosphere in thread.

Its not you. I feel it, too

Ah I feel like I am partly to blame for this. I am sorry, I may have been a bit of a source of negative energy, I'll try to correct that.

I have had a blood test this week, and apparently my vitamin D values are "abysmal" (quoting the doctor). I'm on vitamin D pills now, may that will lift my modd in the future!

[faust]

I don’t anyway. Do you?

*sigh*

I do, actually. I'm the Squire.

[Rhand]

is it me or a lot of people behave toxic? I don't know, feeling unfriendly atmosphere in thread.

Its not you. I feel it, too

I might be part of that. I can be very direct when playing mafia.
Just tell me if I become too blunt or something, I’m actually a very sensitive person.

[MiX]

Yeah scummy claim is still scummy.

People are saying that it's towny because the squire can confirm it ... but (1) they haven't and (2) even if they did, they could just be his partner.

People are saying it's towny because it matches the flavor but that just means cube did his homework.

Why do people like this claim? Classic FDS back off after any claim.

The claim is good because it's the truth. This is exactly what Windrunners would do. Do you think he's lying? He would be caught eventually. In fact, any other Windrunner could counterclaim right now!

What would another Windrunner be counterclaiming then?

If it's a lie, they can...you know...call him out on a lie.

You think him having a squire means all Windrunners have one?

I wouldn't know, but I would assume yes.

[faust]

Look I even did a breadcrumb in my second post!

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

This is pretty ridiculous. We're no longer in RVS my friend.

[MiX]

Look I even did a breadcrumb in my second post!

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

This is pretty ridiculous. We're no longer in RVS my friend.

Does...does that count?

[MiX]

I don’t anyway. Do you?

*sigh*

I do, actually. I'm the Squire.

Ok so I presume you claimed so we can all lynch EFHW. But why is hypercube town? Because you need him alive?

[WestCoastDidds]

is it me or a lot of people behave toxic? I don't know, feeling unfriendly atmosphere in thread.

Its not you. I feel it, too

Ah I feel like I am partly to blame for this. I am sorry, I may have been a bit of a source of negative energy, I'll try to correct that.

I have had a blood test this week, and apparently my vitamin D values are "abysmal" (quoting the doctor). I'm on vitamin D pills now, may that will lift my modd in the future!

Unwelcome news from the doctor is the worst!  I hope you are feeling awesome soon. xoxo

[hypercube]

I don’t anyway. Do you?

*sigh*

I do, actually. I'm the Squire.

Confirming

[faust]

I don’t anyway. Do you?

*sigh*

I do, actually. I'm the Squire.

Ok so I presume you claimed so we can all lynch EFHW. But why is hypercube town? Because you need him alive?

I don't know, but if he's scum I can force him to share Watcher results, which is still useful, and I lose my powers if he dies, and being a VT is no fun, so.

[Glooble]

I'm still confused about this squire business. So its like a neighborhood? You don't know each other's alignments? But if either of you dies the other one loses their powers?

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay...I am definitely not lynching cube if it means faust shredded as a result.

[MiX]

Unvote

What L is EFHW at?

[faust]

I'm still confused about this squire business. So its like a neighborhood? You don't know each other's alignments? But if either of you dies the other one loses their powers?

No, just if hyper dies I lose my powers, but it doesn't go the other way around.

[EFHW]

I'm at work, so only have a few seconds. I'm a willshaper.

[faust]

And we have a neighborhood, daychat and all. It's very neat.

[Glooble]

I'm still confused about this squire business. So its like a neighborhood? You don't know each other's alignments? But if either of you dies the other one loses their powers?

No, just if hyper dies I lose my powers, but it doesn't go the other way around.

Weird, but okay.

unvote

for now.

[MiX]

faust, is this your order-independent ability, or are there more?

Also, you probably shouldn't answer this, but I don't know.

[faust]

I'm at work, so only have a few seconds. I'm a willshaper.

What's your order's special power?

[Galzria]

Unvote

I don’t anyway. Do you?

*sigh*

I do, actually. I'm the Squire.

Man, of course you are. It would be the world’s way of mocking me. 18 player game and it couldn’t be anybody else? 😢

————————————————

So... yeah. I would *prefer* to lynch faust here. Independent of him being my biggest scum read prior to claiming to be the Squire, I think the Squire is just more likely to be scum than the Master here.

But I don’t think a faust lynch will happen. Not that 3 hours isn’t long enough to swing the lunch there, but there won’t be 10 people willing to make it happen.

The question for me then becomes: Vote Cube, hope he’s scum and lose town!faust as a PR? Or vote Cube and if he flips Town hope that at least scum!faust loses his PR? Or go back to EFHW who I was scum reading before... and ignore the whole Cube/Faust situation.

Bleh. Need to think. Need a Coffee first. It’s 9:00am and I’ve been up since 4:30.

[faust]

faust, is this your order-independent ability, or are there more?

Also, you probably shouldn't answer this, but I don't know.

I acknowledge this question and choose to ignore it for now.

[faust]

It is worth noting that keeping your Watchers around is a good way to assure the continued survival of everyone's favorite IC.

[2.71828.....]

"Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!"

—Collected on Tanatesach 1173, 28 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed female street juggler.

Vote Count 1.10

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (4): chairs, Rhand, jotheonah, EFHW
MiX (2): scolapasta, hypercube
EFHW (6): cayvie, faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds {L-4}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout

Not Voting (4): Swowl, MiX, Glooble, Galzria

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020. That's in about 3 hours.

[MiX]

Thanks E.

Welp. Don't blame if when EFHW flips town.

Vote: EFHW

faust, you better solve hypercube's alignment.

[faust]

faust, you better solve hypercube's alignment.

Working on it.

[Rhand]

It is worth noting that keeping your Watchers around is a good way to assure the continued survival of everyone's favorite IC.

Rolestopper, Ascetic-izer, Ninja, Bus Driver.

This is AtE.

[hypercube]

People who have played with MiX before, is he town?

[faust]

It is worth noting that keeping your Watchers around is a good way to assure the continued survival of everyone's favorite IC.

Rolestopper, Ascetic-izer, Ninja, Bus Driver.

This is AtE.

Okay, let me rephrase: It's a way to force scum to spend Stormlight if they want to kill the IC.

[Rhand]

It is worth noting that keeping your Watchers around is a good way to assure the continued survival of everyone's favorite IC.

Rolestopper, Ascetic-izer, Ninja, Bus Driver.

This is AtE.

Okay, let me rephrase: It's a way to force scum to spend Stormlight if they want to kill the IC.

I don’t think they were going to risk shooting there without using Stormlight.
Lynching cube eliminates two possible rolestoppers though.

[Galzria]

People who have played with MiX before, is he town?

He’s good at mirroring his Town meta as scum, and vice versa, so it’s difficult to say. He talks in absolutes and often states things as fact rather than opinion - and that opinion can change in a matter of back to back posts.

I think what you’re questioning regarding his playstyle is generally NAI for him. I have him on the scummier side of neutral this game, but don’t necessarily believe he’s scum as of yet.

[faust]

It is worth noting that keeping your Watchers around is a good way to assure the continued survival of everyone's favorite IC.

Rolestopper, Ascetic-izer, Ninja, Bus Driver.

This is AtE.

Okay, let me rephrase: It's a way to force scum to spend Stormlight if they want to kill the IC.

I don’t think they were going to risk shooting there without using Stormlight.
Lynching cube eliminates two possible rolestoppers though.

Lynching EFHW eliminates a possible Bus Driver!

[hypercube]

People who have played with MiX before, is he town?

He’s good at mirroring his Town meta as scum, and vice versa, so it’s difficult to say. He talks in absolutes and often states things as fact rather than opinion - and that opinion can change in a matter of back to back posts.

I think what you’re questioning regarding his playstyle is generally NAI for him. I have him on the scummier side of neutral this game, but don’t necessarily believe he’s scum as of yet.

Is engaging in a constant competition with himself to scumslip more AI?

[hypercube]

I'm serious, prior to the past few hours I had been trusting the people who know him better to police MiX

[Glooble]

I'm serious, prior to the past few hours I had been trusting the people who know him better to police MiX

My gut read on MiX says town, but a few specific interactions have said scum to me so I could honestly go either way.

[faust]

I'm going to be away now for the next ~2 hours, but I will be able to check in at least briefly before deadline.

[scolapasta]

OK, finally caught up on 7+ pages since last night.

Lots going on.

Re: my MiX "obsession" - I don't see it that way, mostly just I presented an argument, looking for good counter reasons, and all the counter reasons pointed out seemed not logically sound to me. So I wanted to point them out. That said, (and I have stated a few times) that the specific argument may itself be a red herring. I still think it, but I know it's not strong enough by itself for others.

OK, moving on, as we are 2+ hours from DL.

I had been leaning EFHW vs cube on the wagons (and may still get there), but I do like the idea of

vote: faust

So will second that one and see if others join in. If it doesn't build enough within the hour, will revisit my vote. I should be around for DL, assuming no work thing comes up.

[EFHW]

I'm at work, so only have a few seconds. I'm a willshaper.

What's your order's special power?

Redirector.

[chairs]

vote: efhw

[cayvie]

OK, finally caught up on 7+ pages since last night.

Lots going on.

Re: my MiX "obsession" - I don't see it that way, mostly just I presented an argument, looking for good counter reasons, and all the counter reasons pointed out seemed not logically sound to me. So I wanted to point them out. That said, (and I have stated a few times) that the specific argument may itself be a red herring. I still think it, but I know it's not strong enough by itself for others.

OK, moving on, as we are 2+ hours from DL.

I had been leaning EFHW vs cube on the wagons (and may still get there), but I do like the idea of

vote: faust

So will second that one and see if others join in. If it doesn't build enough within the hour, will revisit my vote. I should be around for DL, assuming no work thing comes up.

I would be willing to consider switching to faust. He's still in my scumreads, and it seems to me that lynching a Squire is not the worst, mechanically.

As, even in the situation where both hyper and faust are town, faust's powers are vulnerable to a kill on hypercube anyway.

Of course I still have bad memories of scum-EFHW combined with bus driving my vigshot on her from Falling Skies so I'm fine with that lynch as well. Lynching hypercube seems mechanically poor, since I don't have a scumread on him.

I would also not want to lynch: WCD, Rhand, Galzria, Jimmmmm, scolapasta. Or Glooble, obviously.

I would still want to lynch: GreatHallScout, but nobody wants to join me. Not opposed to a Dylan lynch if it comes down to that.

Others are meh lynches to me rn.

[hypercube]

OK, finally caught up on 7+ pages since last night.

Lots going on.

Re: my MiX "obsession" - I don't see it that way, mostly just I presented an argument, looking for good counter reasons, and all the counter reasons pointed out seemed not logically sound to me. So I wanted to point them out. That said, (and I have stated a few times) that the specific argument may itself be a red herring. I still think it, but I know it's not strong enough by itself for others.

OK, moving on, as we are 2+ hours from DL.

I had been leaning EFHW vs cube on the wagons (and may still get there), but I do like the idea of

vote: faust

So will second that one and see if others join in. If it doesn't build enough within the hour, will revisit my vote. I should be around for DL, assuming no work thing comes up.

Well, there goes the MiX wagon. vote: EFHW, L-1 I think

[EFHW]

vote: faust. Self-preservation, obviously.

[scolapasta]

I would be willing to consider switching to faust. He's still in my scumreads, and it seems to me that lynching a Squire is not the worst, mechanically.

As, even in the situation where both hyper and faust are town, faust's powers are vulnerable to a kill on hypercube anyway.

Of course I still have bad memories of scum-EFHW combined with bus driving my vigshot on her from Falling Skies so I'm fine with that lynch as well. Lynching hypercube seems mechanically poor, since I don't have a scumread on him.

I would also not want to lynch: WCD, Rhand, Galzria, Jimmmmm, scolapasta. Or Glooble, obviously.

I would still want to lynch: GreatHallScout, but nobody wants to join me. Not opposed to a Dylan lynch if it comes down to that.

Others are meh lynches to me rn.

Thanks for articulating this lynching squire thought - I wanted to get the vote out there ASAP, in case it can build, but yes, the fact that it was one of my scum reads and that lynching the squire is not so bad. i.e. if they're both town, what's to stop scum from NKing cube to get rid of two sets of powers.

I'll admit I'm not quite sure I accept the role of the squire as presented though, my guess is there's more to it.

Re: GHS - I could get on board, but I don't think that builds like faust could.

[cayvie]

I'm at work, so only have a few seconds. I'm a willshaper.

What's your order's special power?

Redirector.

Is your rolemame "cayvie's nightmare"

[Rhand]

I would join a GHS wagon.
I don’t think faust is mafia.

[MiX]

I'm at work, so only have a few seconds. I'm a willshaper.

What's your order's special power?

Redirector.

Is your rolemame "cayvie's nightmare"

More like "MiX killer".

Well no I was in that redirector only game and won.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 1.11

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (2): Rhand, jotheonah
EFHW (9): cayvie, faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, MiX, chairs, hypercube {L-1}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout
faust (2): scolapasta, EFHW

Not Voting (3): Swowl, Glooble, Galzria

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020. That's in about 2 hours.

[chairs]

i would vote faust if we had more tome but two hours simply isnt enough.

[Galzria]

vote: faust

[cayvie]

i would vote faust if we had more tome but two hours simply isnt enough.

sure it is.

vote: faust

i'll be on until deadline to switch back if needed.

[Rhand]

If it’s between faust and EFHW, I’m gonna reread both.
There’s no ISO function on this site, right? Can’t do ctrl-f on the phone :/

[cayvie]

If it’s between faust and EFHW, I’m gonna reread both.
There’s no ISO function on this site, right? Can’t do ctrl-f on the phone :/

yeahhhhh there's not unfortunately. as far as i know.

[Uncleeurope]

If it’s between faust and EFHW, I’m gonna reread both.
There’s no ISO function on this site, right? Can’t do ctrl-f on the phone :/

On my phone, at least, if I type something into the URL bar, I can scroll down to the bottom and there is a “find” option for the string you typed.

Just don’t accidentally hit return.

[WestCoastDidds]

And we have a neighborhood, daychat and all. It's very neat.

I am envious!  I LOVE a daychat QT!

[Uncleeurope]

And we have a neighborhood, daychat and all. It's very neat.

I am envious!  I LOVE a daychat QT!

Same.

[hypercube]

If it’s between faust and EFHW, I’m gonna reread both.
There’s no ISO function on this site, right? Can’t do ctrl-f on the phone :/

You can click to their profile and view posts, that's as good as it gets. Fortunately no-one posts about Dominion here anymore.

I'm not voting for faust today under any circumstances.

[cayvie]

If it’s between faust and EFHW, I’m gonna reread both.
There’s no ISO function on this site, right? Can’t do ctrl-f on the phone :/

You can click to their profile and view posts, that's as good as it gets. Fortunately no-one posts about Dominion here anymore.

I'm not voting for faust today under any circumstances.

huh, okay.

usually that certainty of phrasing would imply an alignment knowledge, but iirc you've already stated that you don't know each other's alignments.

[WestCoastDidds]

People who have played with MiX before, is he town?

Probably yes

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, I’m afraid all picks being suggested right now are rocks and hard places.

Jimmm
Swowl
Even Didds

Those are better places than this pool, probably.

[cayvie]

People who have played with MiX before, is he town?

Probably yes

well didds is the only player i trust to read MiX tbh

Yeah, I’m afraid all picks being suggested right now are rocks and hard places.

Jimmm
Swowl
Even Didds

Those are better places than this pool, probably.

what the heck is this

[hypercube]

Yeah, I’m afraid all picks being suggested right now are rocks and hard places.

Jimmm
Swowl
Even Didds

Those are better places than this pool, probably.

Was Didds completely honest about her communications with you?

[Uncleeurope]

Yup.

Just sharing my reads on people who most are overlooking.

I mean, if EFHW/Hyper/Faust are all town, who is bad?

My list, and maybe Scout, although I am not huge about that one at the moment.

I think Jimm is very shifty right now. Especially considering how much he seems to be trusted by everyone else for saying so little.

[WestCoastDidds]

People who have played with MiX before, is he town?

He’s good at mirroring his Town meta as scum, and vice versa, so it’s difficult to say. He talks in absolutes and often states things as fact rather than opinion - and that opinion can change in a matter of back to back posts.

I think what you’re questioning regarding his playstyle is generally NAI for him. I have him on the scummier side of neutral this game, but don’t necessarily believe he’s scum as of yet.

Is engaging in a constant competition with himself to scumslip more AI?

When Mix is scum, he is rather erratci and votes for different people alot. He also gets really aggressive.  So far, I have been pretty good at knowing when he is scum. He is not pinging that for me.  But a huge caveat...MiX is freaking good at this game.  And he is changing and adapting to our community at admirable speed. He could well be playing against type, but its doesn't seem that way to me.

[hypercube]

If it’s between faust and EFHW, I’m gonna reread both.
There’s no ISO function on this site, right? Can’t do ctrl-f on the phone :/

You can click to their profile and view posts, that's as good as it gets. Fortunately no-one posts about Dominion here anymore.

I'm not voting for faust today under any circumstances.

huh, okay.

usually that certainty of phrasing would imply an alignment knowledge, but iirc you've already stated that you don't know each other's alignments.

He's my #1 town read. I realize now we have maybe been keeping too much of our thinking in our QT, making us look scummier to everyone else.

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm at work, so only have a few seconds. I'm a willshaper.

What's your order's special power?

Redirector.

Is your rolemame "cayvie's nightmare"

hahhahahahahahahha

[Greathallscout]

it might be difficult to do this with faust away but can we use eddie to somewhat confirm the day chat between hypercube and faust? just to rule out a mafia team lying about it. Like have eddie tell faust a keyword to tell hypercube and have hypercube post it and eddie confirm?

[Uncleeurope]

it might be difficult to do this with faust away but can we use eddie to somewhat confirm the day chat between hypercube and faust? just to rule out a mafia team lying about it. Like have eddie tell faust a keyword to tell hypercube and have hypercube post it and eddie confirm?

*rolls eyes*

Fine, I’m bored anyway.

[MiX]

Vote: Jimmmmm

If Uncle says EFHW is town, EFHW is town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yeah, I’m afraid all picks being suggested right now are rocks and hard places.

Jimmm
Swowl
Even Didds

Those are better places than this pool, probably.

This feels so random to me.  Jimmm is super high on my townreads list.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, I’m afraid all picks being suggested right now are rocks and hard places.

Jimmm
Swowl
Even Didds

Those are better places than this pool, probably.

This feels so random to me.  Jimmm is super high on my townreads list.

IKR, isn’t it weird?

[WestCoastDidds]

GHS is on my scummy list, but he's new to us, so I'm taking that with a grain of salt

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Jimmmmm

If Uncle says EFHW is town, EFHW is town.

I will say that it doesn’t quite work like that.

[Swowl]

Vote: Faust

Waking up- I’ll be back.

[MiX]

Eh I guess I don't want faust to be lynched.

Vote: EFHW

[WestCoastDidds]

Yup.

Just sharing my reads on people who most are overlooking.

I mean, if EFHW/Hyper/Faust are all town, who is bad?

My list, and maybe Scout, although I am not huge about that one at the moment.

I think Jimm is very shifty right now. Especially considering how much he seems to be trusted by everyone else for saying so little.

You think EFHW is town? Why is that?

[mail-mi]

"They named it the Final Desolation, but they lied. Our gods lied. Oh, how they lied. The Everstorm comes. I hear its whispers, see its stormwall, know its heart."

—Collected on Tanatanes 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an Azish itinerant worker. Sample of particular note.

Vote Count 1.12

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (2): Rhand, jotheonah
EFHW (8): faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, chairs, hypercube, MiX {L-2}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout
faust (5): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl

Not Voting (1): Glooble

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020. That's in 1.5 hours.

[Rhand]

I can see EFHW scum, I have a hard time seeing faust scum.

That said, I still have a Windrunner problem. So if cube is off the table, mechanically faust is the better lynch :/

Don’t know what to do.

[jotheonah]

vote: faust I guess?

[scolapasta]

Can we get 5 more for faust? Is anyone currently on EFHW willing to consider faust? If not, we'd need all 5 others:

Dylan
Rhand
joth
GHS
Gloobie


PPE 4 others

[MiX]

Can we get 5 more for faust? Is anyone currently on EFHW willing to consider faust? If not, we'd need all 5 others:

Dylan
Rhand
joth
GHS
Gloobie


PPE 4 others

I'll hammer, but...

[WestCoastDidds]

Hyper- is faust currently a full Windrunner, too?

[scolapasta]

Can we get 5 more for faust? Is anyone currently on EFHW willing to consider faust? If not, we'd need all 5 others:

Dylan
Rhand
joth
GHS
Gloobie


PPE 4 others

I'll hammer, but...

So faust is at an effective L-3 (with Mix hammer)
EFHW at L-2, possibly effective L-1 if there's a hammer there, as well.

[hypercube]

Hyper- is faust currently a full Windrunner, too?

As far as I know he has the same powers as me.

[scolapasta]

Can we get 5 more for faust? Is anyone currently on EFHW willing to consider faust? If not, we'd need all 5 others:

Dylan
Rhand
joth
GHS
Gloobie


PPE 4 others

I'll hammer, but...

So faust is at an effective L-3 (with Mix hammer)
EFHW at L-2, possibly effective L-1 if there's a hammer there, as well.

And whether town or not, cube seems to have saved himself (though endangered his "squire") with his claim.

[Rhand]

I’m just gonna say it because I keep talking around it and for mafia it’s probably obvious by now.

I am a windrunner. I confirm the bodyguard.
That means 3 watcher / roleblock combo’s in town.
And rolestopper is a mafia ability.

[Glooble]

I am willing to hammer either EFHW or faust.

[WestCoastDidds]

Can we get 5 more for faust? Is anyone currently on EFHW willing to consider faust? If not, we'd need all 5 others:

Dylan
Rhand
joth
GHS
Gloobie


PPE 4 others

I feel a billion times better lynching a bus driver/rracker/commuter/modifed cop/redirector than role blocker/role stopper/lightening rod/ watcher.

[scolapasta]

I’m just gonna say it because I keep talking around it and for mafia it’s probably obvious by now.

I am a windrunner. I confirm the bodyguard.
That means 3 watcher / roleblock combo’s in town.
And rolestopper is a mafia ability.

If there are in fact 3 windrunners, at least one has to be scum, no?

Though one or more of the windrunners may be lying? I don't see that though, since if one of cube/faust is twon that doesn't work. This could be a confirmation lie, but also seems risky.

i.e. I'm believing there are 3 and feeling pretty good about my faust vote.

[Glooble]

People are treating watcher like its some super powerful investigative role in a game with at least four investigative roles, three of which are arguably more powerful, and honestly I don't get it.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m just gonna say it because I keep talking around it and for mafia it’s probably obvious by now.

I am a windrunner. I confirm the bodyguard.
That means 3 watcher / roleblock combo’s in town.
And rolestopper is a mafia ability.

If there are in fact 3 windrunners, at least one has to be scum, no?

Though one or more of the windrunners may be lying? I don't see that though, since if one of cube/faust is twon that doesn't work. This could be a confirmation lie, but also seems risky.

i.e. I'm believing there are 3 and feeling pretty good about my faust vote.

I don't know why that would be true, especially if it is randomized.

[Greathallscout]

is the faust wagon because people think 1 town and 1 scum is most likely in the squire situation? I think it's too hard to tell what the setup will be here.

Faust seemed null to me beforehand and I don't see how the claim made them more scummy.

[Rhand]

People are treating watcher like its some super powerful investigative role in a game with at least four investigative roles, three of which are arguably more powerful, and honestly I don't get it.

“people” is me.
I do come from a site where cops are frowned upon in setups.
Watcher is the next most powerful investigative role. Guessing the NK is easier than guessing who does it (tracker).

[WestCoastDidds]

People are treating watcher like its some super powerful investigative role in a game with at least four investigative roles, three of which are arguably more powerful, and honestly I don't get it.

EFHW can potentially track and faust can potentially watch, so I think that's pretty even. 

I am more concerned about her ability to bus drive and redirect, while he can lightening rod and role stop. The latter seems far better for town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Rhand, do you have a squire, too?

[MiX]

People are treating watcher like its some super powerful investigative role in a game with at least four investigative roles, three of which are arguably more powerful, and honestly I don't get it.

“people” is me.
I do come from a site where cops are frowned upon in setups.
Watcher is the next most powerful investigative role. Guessing the NK is easier than guessing who does it (tracker).

You, pops, and hopefully everyone else, Watcher is very strong and almost impossible to fake claim, which makes it pretty good in this setup. It can also catch scum with non-killing actions sometimes.

People are treating watcher like its some super powerful investigative role in a game with at least four investigative roles, three of which are arguably more powerful, and honestly I don't get it.

EFHW can potentially track and faust can potentially watch, so I think that's pretty even. 

I am more concerned about her ability to bus drive and redirect, while he can lightening rod and role stop. The latter seems far better for town.

I thought we were scumhunting, not lynching anti-town roles. Dylan's here if we want to do that instead.

[Rhand]

Rhand, do you have a squire, too?

No

[scolapasta]

I’m just gonna say it because I keep talking around it and for mafia it’s probably obvious by now.

I am a windrunner. I confirm the bodyguard.
That means 3 watcher / roleblock combo’s in town.
And rolestopper is a mafia ability.

If there are in fact 3 windrunners, at least one has to be scum, no?

Though one or more of the windrunners may be lying? I don't see that though, since if one of cube/faust is twon that doesn't work. This could be a confirmation lie, but also seems risky.

i.e. I'm believing there are 3 and feeling pretty good about my faust vote.

I don't know why that would be true, especially if it is randomized.

Sorry, I was channeling my inner MiX and stating my opinion as fact.

I meant, it feels as if Windrunner would be a good order for scum (specifically Adhesion surge). And so even 1 or 2 I would think scum, but with 3, I would be surprised if they were all town.

Do we have any reason to be alignment / order is randomized? For ensuring good design purposes, I assume it would not be.

[WestCoastDidds]

People are treating watcher like its some super powerful investigative role in a game with at least four investigative roles, three of which are arguably more powerful, and honestly I don't get it.

EFHW can potentially track and faust can potentially watch, so I think that's pretty even. 

I am more concerned about her ability to bus drive and redirect, while he can lightening rod and role stop. The latter seems far better for town.

I thought we were scumhunting, not lynching anti-town roles. Dylan's here if we want to do that instead.

Agree, I think EFHW is far scummier than faust. I actually don't see why anyone is voting for faust, but I do not that scum always wants him dead.  But if people think they are both town and weighing the roles, hers are worse for us that faust's by a significant margin.

[MiX]

Sorry, I was channeling my inner MiX and stating my opinion as fact.

Yessssssssssssssss.

I think having 3 town Windrunners would be incredibly lucky, but on the other hand there's no reason for that not to happen, right? Laws of probability dictate almost always something incredibly lucky happens anyway, why can't it be this?

People are treating watcher like its some super powerful investigative role in a game with at least four investigative roles, three of which are arguably more powerful, and honestly I don't get it.

EFHW can potentially track and faust can potentially watch, so I think that's pretty even. 

I am more concerned about her ability to bus drive and redirect, while he can lightening rod and role stop. The latter seems far better for town.

I thought we were scumhunting, not lynching anti-town roles. Dylan's here if we want to do that instead.

Agree, I think EFHW is far scummier than faust. I actually don't see why anyone is voting for faust, but I do not that scum always wants him dead.  But if people think they are both town and weighing the roles, hers are worse for us that faust's by a significant margin.

I think people want to kill hypercube, but can't, so now they have to settle for faust. By people I mean scum.

[Rhand]

Ehh where does that assumption that roles / alignment was randomised come from?
In this setup that could lead to extreme imbalance. I don’t think they were.

[Dylan32]

I would be willing to vote for faust. He was scum side of null for me, but I can admit that some of that gut scumread probably came from his dustbringer claiming plan and I was just salty about that, which is why I hadn't really pushed for this earlier. I would also join the EFHW wagon.

[MiX]

Ehh where does that assumption that roles / alignment was randomised come from?
In this setup that could lead to extreme imbalance. I don’t think they were.

I would do a setup like this by first randomizing, then tweaking if I deem it to be unbalanced. Not the other way around. I assume this method is the one all mods use because why wouldn't you?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m just gonna say it because I keep talking around it and for mafia it’s probably obvious by now.

I am a windrunner. I confirm the bodyguard.
That means 3 watcher / roleblock combo’s in town.
And rolestopper is a mafia ability.

If there are in fact 3 windrunners, at least one has to be scum, no?

Though one or more of the windrunners may be lying? I don't see that though, since if one of cube/faust is twon that doesn't work. This could be a confirmation lie, but also seems risky.

i.e. I'm believing there are 3 and feeling pretty good about my faust vote.

I don't know why that would be true, especially if it is randomized.

Sorry, I was channeling my inner MiX and stating my opinion as fact.

I meant, it feels as if Windrunner would be a good order for scum (specifically Adhesion surge). And so even 1 or 2 I would think scum, but with 3, I would be surprised if they were all town.

Do we have any reason to be alignment / order is randomized? For ensuring good design purposes, I assume it would not be.

I am not a designer, so these are just guesses...perhaps everyone was placed randomly.  Then they looked to see that scum were distributed in some equitable fashion. 

I'd be more likely to agree with you that there wouldn't be more than 2 scum in an order than x town in an order.  Especially when we don't know how many order we actually have playing.

[WestCoastDidds]

I would be willing to vote for faust. He was scum side of null for me, but I can admit that some of that gut scumread probably came from his dustbringer claiming plan and I was just salty about that, which is why I hadn't really pushed for this earlier. I would also join the EFHW wagon.

EFHW is better than faust

[MiX]

Me and Didds somewhat agreed on something setup related.

This is groundbreaking.

[Rhand]

Ehh where does that assumption that roles / alignment was randomised come from?
In this setup that could lead to extreme imbalance. I don’t think they were.

I would do a setup like this by first randomizing, then tweaking if I deem it to be unbalanced. Not the other way around. I assume this method is the one all mods use because why wouldn't you?

Oh I would at least for the scum team identify necessary powers and make sure they have those.

[Dylan32]

Ehh where does that assumption that roles / alignment was randomised come from?
In this setup that could lead to extreme imbalance. I don’t think they were.

I've been thinking about this too.  I think the whole "there might be 3 of one order and none of another" and house assignments being NAI sort of conflated to people assuming order+alignment is randomized too.

ppe several

[scolapasta]

Ehh where does that assumption that roles / alignment was randomised come from?
In this setup that could lead to extreme imbalance. I don’t think they were.

I would do a setup like this by first randomizing, then tweaking if I deem it to be unbalanced. Not the other way around. I assume this method is the one all mods use because why wouldn't you?

But if that were the case, wouldn't one of the tweaks be to make one of the 3 WindRunners scum?

[WestCoastDidds]

Me and Didds somewhat agreed on something setup related.

This is groundbreaking.

Right?  Although in fairness, we don't usually disagree....I just dont know enough to have an opinion. 

@Rhand...isn't their only necessary power the NK? Everything else is gravy.

[Rhand]

Me and Didds somewhat agreed on something setup related.

This is groundbreaking.

Right?  Although in fairness, we don't usually disagree....I just dont know enough to have an opinion. 

@Rhand...isn't their only necessary power the NK? Everything else is gravy.

There is loads of power and counter-power.
Giving town all that power and mafia not enough of the counters would create a salty mafia team if they lose to mechanics.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ehh where does that assumption that roles / alignment was randomised come from?
In this setup that could lead to extreme imbalance. I don’t think they were.

I would do a setup like this by first randomizing, then tweaking if I deem it to be unbalanced. Not the other way around. I assume this method is the one all mods use because why wouldn't you?

But if that were the case, wouldn't one of the tweaks be to make one of the 3 WindRunners scum?

I don't think they would tweak town.  I think that if scum were overrepresented, they re-roll the scum placement. 

[Rhand]

My phone is about to die. Might not be able to recharge before deadline.

[WestCoastDidds]

Me and Didds somewhat agreed on something setup related.

This is groundbreaking.

Right?  Although in fairness, we don't usually disagree....I just dont know enough to have an opinion. 

@Rhand...isn't their only necessary power the NK? Everything else is gravy.

There is loads of power and counter-power.
Giving town all that power and mafia not enough of the counters would create a salty mafia team if they lose to mechanics.

True...and if then scum redirectors go and mess all that power up....

[Uncleeurope]

I may be wrong here, but EFHW > Faust for today.

[Rhand]

Me and Didds somewhat agreed on something setup related.

This is groundbreaking.

Right?  Although in fairness, we don't usually disagree....I just dont know enough to have an opinion. 

@Rhand...isn't their only necessary power the NK? Everything else is gravy.

There is loads of power and counter-power.
Giving town all that power and mafia not enough of the counters would create a salty mafia team if they lose to mechanics.

True...and if then scum redirectors go and mess all that power up....

You make that plural. In randomness they might have only one. And that can die early.

[scolapasta]

scolacounta 1.1:

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (21): Rhand, jotheonah
EFHW ( 8 ): faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, chairs, hypercube, MiX {L-2}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout
faust (56): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl, joth

Not Voting (1): Glooble


Stated willingness:
faust (3): MiX, Gloobie, Dylan
EFHW (1): Dylan

so faust and EFHW both effectively al L-1

[Rhand]

Does that mean the decision is up to me and my almost dead phone? :/

[cayvie]

i would vote faust if we had more tome but two hours simply isnt enough.

well im mad at chairs for saying this and then ditching, but i think it's townie.

[scolapasta]

Does that mean the decision is up to me and my almost dead phone? :/

Assuming people stick with their intentions... you or GHS (or someone else switching)

[Rhand]

Darnit I can’t decide lol

[hypercube]

There are maybe 12 of us here, we could try vote: Rhand

[Rhand]

vote: faust

Gonna go against my gut here. The way he handled me and the “don’t kill the watchers” thing go against him, and meta-wise there’s lots of you that are voting him that actually know his scum range. I hope it’s right.

[Rhand]

There are maybe 12 of us here, we could try vote: Rhand

lol. Can we really not lynch this?

[MiX]

This EoD really makes me want to kill hypercube. He's basically killing faust with his claim and I hate that.

[mail-mi]

"All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds."

—Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed mother of four in her sixty-second year.

Vote Count 1.13

chairs (1): Dylan32
EFHW (7): faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, chairs, MiX {L-3}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout
faust (7): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl, jotheonah, Rhand {L-3}
Rhand (1): hypercube

Not Voting (1): Glooble

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020. That's in about 40 minutes.

[faust]

You should feel bad.

[faust]

Glooble, please, don't. I think there is a decent chance that all Windrunners are town, but if not then it should be clear that the scum is not me but hypercube. It should also be clear that at most one of us is scum, those are less than ideal chances.

[faust]

Bus Driver + redirector is also a more dangerous role to take out of the game.

[faust]

Not to mention that this wagon on me is riddled with scum.

[Rhand]

Glooble, please, don't. I think there is a decent chance that all Windrunners are town, but if not then it should be clear that the scum is not me but hypercube. It should also be clear that at most one of us is scum, those are less than ideal chances.

Did you just 180 on me?

[MiX]

Glooble, please, don't. I think there is a decent chance that all Windrunners are town, but if not then it should be clear that the scum is not me but hypercube. It should also be clear that at most one of us is scum, those are less than ideal chances.

Did you just 180 on me?

Do you want faust to scumread you?

[Rhand]

Glooble, please, don't. I think there is a decent chance that all Windrunners are town, but if not then it should be clear that the scum is not me but hypercube. It should also be clear that at most one of us is scum, those are less than ideal chances.

Did you just 180 on me?

Do you want faust to scumread you?

No I want to understand his mindset

[Uncleeurope]

I feel like scum Faust doesn’t claim Squire here in many worlds at all.

Unless the guy is just a mad lad.

[Rhand]

Meh I really think it’s cube, not faust.

vote: EFHW

[faust]

Glooble, please, don't. I think there is a decent chance that all Windrunners are town, but if not then it should be clear that the scum is not me but hypercube. It should also be clear that at most one of us is scum, those are less than ideal chances.

Did you just 180 on me?

It was more of a slow turn really. But the fact that you claimed right now makes you look much townier.

[scolapasta]

@faust, is what cube said accurate, that if he dies, you lose all your powers? (you become a VT)

[Greathallscout]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

[faust]

@faust, is what cube said accurate, that if he dies, you lose all your powers? (you become a VT)

Yes.

[hypercube]

There are maybe 12 of us here, we could try vote: Rhand

lol. Can we really not lynch this?

I guess we'll have Windrunner thunderdome tomorrow then.

Intent to hammer.

[Uncleeurope]

I did message Faust, by the way.

[hypercube]

I did message Faust, by the way.

I haven't heard anything from him.

[Uncleeurope]

I did message Faust, by the way.

I haven't heard anything from him.

Yeah, you’re good. I highly doubt you are lying about the neighborhood.

[hypercube]

Well, EFHW has claimed already so I don't know if there's anything else I'm supposed to wait for.

[Uncleeurope]

Well, EFHW has claimed already so I don't know if there's anything else I'm supposed to wait for.

Just Faust to talk to you, probably.

[faust]

I did message Faust, by the way.

Sorry, I don't exactly have much time at the moment.

[hypercube]

Well, EFHW has claimed already so I don't know if there's anything else I'm supposed to wait for.

Just Faust to talk to you, probably.

You're right, I shouldn't pass up a chance to pass along a cool coded message.

[jotheonah]

Also willing to hammer here.

[hypercube]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

[Rhand]

Just in case I die toNight: if EFHW flips scum, take a deep look into Cayvie please.
She was very eager to get a counter going.

[Galzria]

Sigh

[hypercube]

Now I get to find out that Eddie is a cult leader who recruits people by getting them to name flowers.

[Galzria]

I appreciate those who attempted to help though. Got further than I thought would happen.

[MiX]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

[Dylan32]

My code word to summon Eddie was a different flower interesting lol. Probably just an easy way to recognize if he's being called.

[mail-mi]

"Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above."

—Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an illiterate Herdazian.

Vote Count 1.FINAL

chairs (1): Dylan32
EFHW (10): faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, chairs, MiX, Rhand, GreatHallScout, hypercube
faust (6): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl, jotheonah

Not Voting (1): Glooble

With 18 alive it took 10 to lynch.

Twilight starts now.

[MiX]

So was mine, but I didn't recognize it as one.

Oh yeah there's a governor.

[Rhand]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

[scolapasta]

So I am hopeful EFHW is scum. She was on my radar, I just didn't think it was as strong a vote as faust, because I do thinkit's likely at least one of the Windrunnners is scum (I have not played enough games with this group to know how much this would or would not be randomized), because Windrunners have good scum powers. With that I thought the squire was a better choice than the others.

[MiX]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

Well I've been calling EFHW town all day so if I was scum I would do this yeah.

I just like WIFOM and cannot help myself.

[Glooble]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

Yeah the hammer is meaningless given that multiple people had expressed willingness to do it.

[Rhand]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

Well I've been calling EFHW town all day so if I was scum I would do this yeah.

I just like WIFOM and cannot help myself.

I am talking about cube, not you lol

[MiX]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

Well I've been calling EFHW town all day so if I was scum I would do this yeah.

I just like WIFOM and cannot help myself.

I am talking about cube, not you lol

Then as Glooble said you're reading too much into literally nothing.

Also, don't look at wagons after everyone knows who's getting flipped. The L-1 vote was the real hammer, ignore everything else afterwards. That's my philosophy.

[Rhand]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

Well I've been calling EFHW town all day so if I was scum I would do this yeah.

I just like WIFOM and cannot help myself.

I am talking about cube, not you lol

Then as Glooble said you're reading too much into literally nothing.

Also, don't look at wagons after everyone knows who's getting flipped. The L-1 vote was the real hammer, ignore everything else afterwards. That's my philosophy.

I hope we can continue this conversation toMorrow because it’s pointless without the flip, but I don’t agree grabbing the hammer is NAI.

[MiX]

I hope we can continue this conversation toMorrow because it’s pointless without the flip, but I don’t agree grabbing the hammer is NAI.

I do.

When does twilight end??

[scolapasta]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

Well I've been calling EFHW town all day so if I was scum I would do this yeah.

I just like WIFOM and cannot help myself.

I am talking about cube, not you lol

Then as Glooble said you're reading too much into literally nothing.

Also, don't look at wagons after everyone knows who's getting flipped. The L-1 vote was the real hammer, ignore everything else afterwards. That's my philosophy.

I hope we can continue this conversation toMorrow because it’s pointless without the flip, but I don’t agree grabbing the hammer is NAI.

... says the L-1 vote.

[Rhand]

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

My guess is we have a hit and this is a last-minute try to grab town points for it

Well I've been calling EFHW town all day so if I was scum I would do this yeah.

I just like WIFOM and cannot help myself.

I am talking about cube, not you lol

Then as Glooble said you're reading too much into literally nothing.

Also, don't look at wagons after everyone knows who's getting flipped. The L-1 vote was the real hammer, ignore everything else afterwards. That's my philosophy.

I hope we can continue this conversation toMorrow because it’s pointless without the flip, but I don’t agree grabbing the hammer is NAI.

... says the L-1 vote.

Eh no? I was L-2.

[hypercube]

Seems like Rhand and MiX are very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

[MiX]

Seems like Rhand and MiX are very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

Chrysanthemum! vote: EFHW

Lol. EFHW is town.

Good night everyone!

This is why I want to kill you aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Uncleeurope]

Seems like Rhand and MiX are very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

Uhhh, where?

[scolapasta]

Sure, technically. But cube had just moved off EFHW, so you could easily assume they'd go back.

And Dylan had said they would vote EFHW (and we got GHS) instead.

My point was you were the key vote that decided it. If you had stayed faust, Dylan and our IC had both said they'd vote faust, and MiX was ready to hammer.

[jotheonah]

Seems like Rhand and MiX are very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

Seems like hypercube is very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

[hypercube]

Seems like Rhand and MiX are very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

Uhhh, where?

Well, Rhand is guessing she's scum and then MiX agrees that if she was I was bussing.

[MiX]

Seems like Rhand and MiX are very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

Uhhh, where?

Well, Rhand is guessing she's scum and then MiX agrees that if she was I was bussing.

Seems like hypercube is very sure he's scum all of a sudden.

Where did I say that?

[hypercube]

The L-1 vote was the real hammer, ignore everything else afterwards. That's my philosophy.

Don't worry, I can tell how you're thinking.

[scolapasta]

Is there any benefit in using this time to coordinate night actions?

I mean we don't want to reveal orders but:
- we do know 3 WindRunners and 1 Dustbringer
- we can generically opine things like:
"Cop should investigate x"
"Doctor should save y"
"Inventor should invent z for w"

I get this may be a very bad idea - letting scum know intent? So it's an honest question - is there any value in this?

(especially since so many powers repeat or nerf other powers)

[MiX]

Is there any benefit in using this time to coordinate night actions?

I mean we don't want to reveal orders but:
- we do know 3 WindRunners and 1 Dustbringer
- we can generically opine things like:
"Cop should investigate x"
"Doctor should save y"
"Inventor should invent z for w"

I get this may be a very bad idea - letting scum know intent? So it's an honest question - is there any value in this?

(especially since so many powers repeat or nerf other powers)

No, that risks a lot of doubling up and scum knowing some stuff. It's also not necessary.

[Rhand]

Is there any benefit in using this time to coordinate night actions?

I mean we don't want to reveal orders but:
- we do know 3 WindRunners and 1 Dustbringer
- we can generically opine things like:
"Cop should investigate x"
"Doctor should save y"
"Inventor should invent z for w"

I get this may be a very bad idea - letting scum know intent? So it's an honest question - is there any value in this?

(especially since so many powers repeat or nerf other powers)

I have had many ideas, but I keep bumping into the counters that are many.
I think N1 we need pure randomness.

[Glooble]

Unless someone really needed to be strongmanned maybe?

[scolapasta]

Unless someone really needed to be strongmanned maybe?

strongmanned?

OK, makes sense. I guess I was fishing for ideas of what to do without revealing my Order.

[WestCoastDidds]

My code word to summon Eddie was a different flower interesting lol. Probably just an easy way to recognize if he's being called.

Yep...swowl's worked "snapdragon" into a sentence.  I just said "dandelion" straight up.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, how are you feeling about hypercube? faust?

[MiX]

MiX, how are you feeling about hypercube? faust?

Sadly town, town, respectively.

My code word to summon Eddie was a different flower interesting lol. Probably just an easy way to recognize if he's being called.

Yep...swowl's worked "snapdragon" into a sentence.  I just said "dandelion" straight up.

I never realized that those were connected. I knew snapdragon was an Eddie word, but not dandelion.

[mail-mi]

Twilight length added to Deadline portion of opening post.

[WestCoastDidds]

24 hours for those who don't wanna scroll

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, how are you feeling about hypercube? faust?

Sadly town, town, respectively.

Is there anyone higher on your town list?

[Galzria]

24 hours for those who don't wanna scroll

Uuuuuugggghhhhh

[WestCoastDidds]

24 hours for those who don't wanna scroll

Uuuuuugggghhhhh

Sooooooooooooooooooo long!

[hypercube]

I had marigold, and I am pretty sure MiX and Didds also had shraeye. Or, I've just realized shraeye could be code to communicate with someone else.

[MiX]

MiX, how are you feeling about hypercube? faust?

Sadly town, town, respectively.

Is there anyone higher on your town list?

Yes.

I had marigold, and I am pretty sure MiX and Didds also had shraeye. Or, I've just realized shraeye could be code to communicate with someone else.

"MiX and Didds also had shraeye" is saved and you can never unsay it.

I'll let Didds explain.

[cayvie]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

grrrrrrrrr GHS is scum

[WestCoastDidds]

I had marigold, and I am pretty sure MiX and Didds also had shraeye. Or, I've just realized shraeye could be code to communicate with someone else.

"MiX and Didds also had shraeye" is saved and you can never unsay it.

I'll let Didds explain.

We had shraeye?

As for why it can never be unsaid...Mix pronounces shraeye and raerae as "Shr-eye" and rye-rye". I freaking love it.

[MiX]

I had marigold, and I am pretty sure MiX and Didds also had shraeye. Or, I've just realized shraeye could be code to communicate with someone else.

"MiX and Didds also had shraeye" is saved and you can never unsay it.

I'll let Didds explain.

We had shraeye?

As for why it can never be unsaid...Mix pronounces shraeye and raerae as "Shr-eye" and rye-rye". I freaking love it.

I don't think he knows who shraeye is.

[hypercube]

I had marigold, and I am pretty sure MiX and Didds also had shraeye. Or, I've just realized shraeye could be code to communicate with someone else.

"MiX and Didds also had shraeye" is saved and you can never unsay it.

I'll let Didds explain.

We had shraeye?

As for why it can never be unsaid...Mix pronounces shraeye and raerae as "Shr-eye" and rye-rye". I freaking love it.

I don't think he knows who shraeye is.

I know they're a person whose name both of you forced into posts. On my phone or I'd ctl f

[MiX]

I had marigold, and I am pretty sure MiX and Didds also had shraeye. Or, I've just realized shraeye could be code to communicate with someone else.

"MiX and Didds also had shraeye" is saved and you can never unsay it.

I'll let Didds explain.

We had shraeye?

As for why it can never be unsaid...Mix pronounces shraeye and raerae as "Shr-eye" and rye-rye". I freaking love it.

I don't think he knows who shraeye is.

I know they're a person whose name both of you forced into posts. On my phone or I'd ctl f

Oh we just like him too much. I referenced him because in RMM55 he didn't check his QT, or at least he used that as a fakeclaim, so when I failed to check my QT I had to say it. Didds probably mentioned him because he's canonically pushing for no lynch on D1 seemingly all the time so when joth suggested it surely someone mentioned him.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh yeah...I totally mentioned him in the No Lynch discussion. 

We love Shr-eye!!  It would be an awesome code word, for sure.

[mail-mi]

Twilight has to be long enough for everyone to check in. If everyone checks in before 24 hours, we can shorten twilight.

[MiX]

Oh yeah...I totally mentioned him in the No Lynch discussion. 

We love Shr-eye!!  It would be an awesome code word, for sure.

Why are you omitting a? So it sounds like how I pronounce it?

For me it changes nothing lol.

[faust]

24 hours for those who don't wanna scroll

Uuuuuugggghhhhh

Sooooooooooooooooooo long!

Governors are the worst.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh yeah...I totally mentioned him in the No Lynch discussion. 

We love Shr-eye!!  It would be an awesome code word, for sure.

Why are you omitting a? So it sounds like how I pronounce it?

For me it changes nothing lol.

Yep...I pronounce it shray, so it has two extraneous letters with no function. I'm not sure you pronounce the a.
And for the record, still far, far better than any of my Portuguese pronunciation.

[chairs]

😩 i want the flip already

[WestCoastDidds]

😩 i want the flip already

You and 17 others....

[LaLight]

checking in

[mail-mi]

Twilight has to be long enough for everyone to check in. If everyone checks in before 24 hours, we can shorten twilight.

Waiting on 5 more people to post or confirm in QT so we can shorten twilight.

[hypercube]

Oh we just like him too much. I referenced him because in RMM55 he didn't check his QT, or at least he used that as a fakeclaim, so when I failed to check my QT I had to say it. Didds probably mentioned him because he's canonically pushing for no lynch on D1 seemingly all the time so when joth suggested it surely someone mentioned him.

Ah, thanks for the explanation!

[Jimmmmm]

checking in

[Greathallscout]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

grrrrrrrrr GHS is scum

please explain

[cayvie]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

grrrrrrrrr GHS is scum

please explain

Shading the counterwagon is gross at that moment. You and faust have now done mutual wagon deflection. No thanks.

[Greathallscout]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

grrrrrrrrr GHS is scum

please explain

Shading the counterwagon is gross at that moment. You and faust have now done mutual wagon deflection. No thanks.

i dont really understand this. Are you saying i shouldn't have explained why I liked one wagon over the other?

[cayvie]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

grrrrrrrrr GHS is scum

please explain

Shading the counterwagon is gross at that moment. You and faust have now done mutual wagon deflection. No thanks.

i dont really understand this. Are you saying i shouldn't have explained why I liked one wagon over the other?

I'm saying, looking at the whole of the day, your interactions with faust look scummy

[cayvie]

Specifically, despite neither of you giving a real reason, each of you has worked to deflect the other's wagon.

[Greathallscout]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

grrrrrrrrr GHS is scum

please explain

Shading the counterwagon is gross at that moment. You and faust have now done mutual wagon deflection. No thanks.

i dont really understand this. Are you saying i shouldn't have explained why I liked one wagon over the other?

I'm saying, looking at the whole of the day, your interactions with faust look scummy

okay I'd like for you to give concrete examples of this

[cayvie]

(and yes faust, now would be a reasonable time to accuse me of confirmation bias. As opposed to when you did so before.)

[Greathallscout]

Specifically, despite neither of you giving a real reason, each of you has worked to deflect the other's wagon.

faust gave his reasons and i was barely a wagon. You were actually the first person to mention that same reason of me being a newbie.

I gave my reason in the last post about why i voted EFHW over faust. Why is that a deflection? should i not have explained? I think i gave a pretty good reason why i was worried about that quick hammer

[cayvie]

I don't like this quick faust wagon. squire claim seems null if not towny i need to think it through more and dont have time. id rather Vote: EFHW

grrrrrrrrr GHS is scum

please explain

Shading the counterwagon is gross at that moment. You and faust have now done mutual wagon deflection. No thanks.

i dont really understand this. Are you saying i shouldn't have explained why I liked one wagon over the other?

I'm saying, looking at the whole of the day, your interactions with faust look scummy

okay I'd like for you to give concrete examples of this

I mean I just did? You said you didn't like faust's wagon and shaded it by calling it quick.

Hard to find quotes on phone, but faust also shaded my case on you by criticizing me instead of responding to what I said about you.

[cayvie]

My town pings/reads right now

Galz
Greathallscout
Didds
Eddie

So let's cut Eddie from that list and add a couple:

Galz
GHS
WCD
Rhand
LaLight
Faust
Glooble

cayvie, it seems you have a bad habit of voting for your townreads. Should I be worried?

And by my count, GHS, you had 4 votes on you at the time faust posted this.

Hardly fair to call that "barely a wagon", no?

[cayvie]

To put the above quote in context, I had just made my case and dropped vote # four on the GHS wagon when faust posted that. Soon thereafter, mix moved his vote and the wagon fizzled.

[cayvie]

And also, calling that faust "giving his reasons" is laughable.

[Greathallscout]

I mean I just did? You said you didn't like faust's wagon and shaded it by calling it quick.

Hard to find quotes on phone, but faust also shaded my case on you by criticizing me instead of responding to what I said about you.

oh I thought when you said "interactions" you meant interactions between me and faust. Not when faust commented about people voting me or me commenting about people voting him. We didn't have any "interaction" with eachother.

And when you said "the whole day" i guess you meant my single post at the end plus fausts few posts saying that voting me was lame because I'm a newbie.

[Dylan32]

I mean I just did? You said you didn't like faust's wagon and shaded it by calling it quick.

Hard to find quotes on phone, but faust also shaded my case on you by criticizing me instead of responding to what I said about you.

oh I thought when you said "interactions" you meant interactions between me and faust. Not when faust commented about people voting me or me commenting about people voting him. We didn't have any "interaction" with eachother.

And when you said "the whole day" i guess you meant my single post at the end plus fausts few posts saying that voting me was lame because I'm a newbie.

I mean, not interacting with your scum buddies, particularly D1 is a notable newb!scum trap.

[Greathallscout]

And by my count, GHS, you had 4 votes on you at the time faust posted this.

Hardly fair to call that "barely a wagon", no?

I didnt think it really had a chance to have traction at all because no one really has much reason. It seemed more like getting me to talk and not an actual "wagon"

[Dylan32]

And by my count, GHS, you had 4 votes on you at the time faust posted this.

Hardly fair to call that "barely a wagon", no?

I didnt think it really had a chance to have traction at all because no one really has much reason. It seemed more like getting me to talk and not an actual "wagon"

Sometimes you run up a wagon for exactly that reason, but it is still a wagon and can be evaluated as such.

[Greathallscout]

I mean I just did? You said you didn't like faust's wagon and shaded it by calling it quick.

Hard to find quotes on phone, but faust also shaded my case on you by criticizing me instead of responding to what I said about you.

oh I thought when you said "interactions" you meant interactions between me and faust. Not when faust commented about people voting me or me commenting about people voting him. We didn't have any "interaction" with eachother.

And when you said "the whole day" i guess you meant my single post at the end plus fausts few posts saying that voting me was lame because I'm a newbie.

I mean, not interacting with your scum buddies, particularly D1 is a notable newb!scum trap.

Well if thats what cavie meant then let her say that. She said something else.

[Greathallscout]

And by my count, GHS, you had 4 votes on you at the time faust posted this.

Hardly fair to call that "barely a wagon", no?

I didnt think it really had a chance to have traction at all because no one really has much reason. It seemed more like getting me to talk and not an actual "wagon"

Sometimes you run up a wagon for exactly that reason, but it is still a wagon and can be evaluated as such.

I'm not sure why you're speaking for cavie so much. I was was explaining why I said it was barely a wagon. if someone else wants to call it a wagon so be it. I wasnt upset at her calling it a wagon.

[Dylan32]

And by my count, GHS, you had 4 votes on you at the time faust posted this.

Hardly fair to call that "barely a wagon", no?

I didnt think it really had a chance to have traction at all because no one really has much reason. It seemed more like getting me to talk and not an actual "wagon"

Sometimes you run up a wagon for exactly that reason, but it is still a wagon and can be evaluated as such.

I'm not sure why you're speaking for cavie so much. I was was explaining why I said it was barely a wagon. if someone else wants to call it a wagon so be it. I wasnt upset at her calling it a wagon.

I'm not speaking for cayvie, I'm joining the conversation. Honestly, I more wanted to note your admission to not interacting with faust for later, and then since you're new I just explained that yes, sometimes wagons happen to get a person to talk, but we still consider it to be a real wagon around here.  Didn't mean to dispute your claim/explanation at all.

[faust]

(and yes faust, now would be a reasonable time to accuse me of confirmation bias. As opposed to when you did so before.)

I think you're suffering from confirmation bias.

But at least, if EFHW flips scum, I think you're town. No reason to go through an argument like this that you know will become invalidated.

[faust]

Also @EFHW, if you are town, it would be a decent idea to share any remaining information you might have - your House, how many spheres you started with.

[MiX]

The cayvie/hall conversation is so confusing and irrelevant.

Like, what is cayvie trying to do, shade hall so he gets copped or tracked or something?

Also @EFHW, if you are town, it would be a decent idea to share any remaining information you might have - your House, how many spheres you started with.

Huh, maybe she's not town then.

[scolapasta]

Yeah, I'm a little surprised we haven't heard anything from her since.

[WestCoastDidds]

Or even during the run up. There’s the claim and then poof!

[Rhand]

Yeh it’s most likely a hit.

[MiX]

Or even during the run up. There’s the claim and then poof!

You can do the dance now!

I guess. Maybe EFHW's just not here.

[mail-mi]

The gathered Knights rallied together, none taking much time to mourn over the fallen 2.7. Accusations flew wild, while some discussed how they could use the Surges to find the killers.

“It was hypercube!” MiX shouted, echoed by Galzria declaring “faust is the traitor!”

EFHW sat, watching the delightful chaos, until someone turned and noticed her. “Hey,” faust said, “why haven’t you been doing anything?”

EFHW shrugged. “I don’t see what the big deal is.”

The gathered knights gasped. “Traitor!” LaLight called, “Voidbringer!” Jimmmmm cried. Together, they tied her up and brought her to mail-mi.

“She’s the one?” mail-mi asked, and the crowd nodded. “Well, EFHW, what do you have to say for yourself?”

EFHW spat on mail-mi’s face, then smiled. “Odium reigns.”

With an animalistic roar, mail-mi summoned his Shardblade and sliced through EFHW’s spine, killing her soul.

EFHW has been lynched! She was a Mafia Willshaper and a member of House Sadeas.

Night 1 begins now. Actions are due by 2:00 AM FT on Monday, June 15. D2 will start sometime between 3:00AM FT and 3:00PM FT on Monday, June 15.

Thread locked!

[mail-mi]

As you take to your beds for the night, a Thaylen man with long white eyebrows comes into the camp. "Attention!" he calls. "Don't got to sleep yet! I come offering wares for trade!"

Tonight, you may spend any number of spheres to bid for a Larken. Whoever is the highest bidder will get this little lizard to use during the day. With the Larken, you may target any player during Day 2. The Larken will eat all of that player's stormlight, leaving them with only dun spheres.

Remember: These spheres will be spent and you will lose them (rather than just using the Stormlight within them). If you do not win the bid, you will still lose your spheres! And finally, remember that infused spheres are worth more than dun!

[mail-mi]

All players please note the following rule change:

Twilight will last 6 hours or until all players have checked in, whichever comes first. Any post in the main game thread or a qt constitutes a check-in. If you have an action that can occur during twilight, you may provisionally post your action in your personal qt during the day by posting Twilight Action: action command. If the action is invalid for whatever reason, it will automatically fail and not count against you. Otherwise, it will occur immediately at the start of twilight.

[mail-mi]

Once again, a scream awoke mail-mi in the night. Not again... he thought, stumbling out into the coutryard. This time, it was not a brother, but a beloved Knight, skin turned ashen grey, eyes burned out of her sockets.

"We did not win yesterday!" mail-mi roars. "There are still traitors among us!"

cayvie has died! She was a Town Skybreaker, of House Kholin.

Day 2 starts now!

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (16): Dylan32, LaLight, faust, MiX, hypercube, scolapasta, WestCoastDidds, Swowl, Rhand, jotheonah, Uncleeurope, Galzria, GreatHallScout, chairs, Glooble, Jimmmmm

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 lasts until 11:00AM FT on June 22, 2020.

Thread unlocked!

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, Cayvie!  Sadz

[Rhand]

Oh why Cayvie?

@MiX: did anything bad happen to you?

[MiX]

Oh why Cayvie?

@MiX: did anything bad happen to you?

No, why do you ask? Did you roleblock me?

[Glooble]

Surprised they killed cayvie. If I were scum I definitely would have wanted to keep her around for a mislynch.

Also, UncleEurope and myself are still alive, so that's cool.

[MiX]

For NAI things...man...I was wrong. I was so wrong. I should've spent time rereading EFHW and not just dismissing her as town. That was my mistake.

I guess hypercube's town, and most likely faust as well.

Surprised they killed cayvie. If I were scum I definitely would have wanted to keep her around for a mislynch.

Also, UncleEurope and myself are still alive, so that's cool.

cayvie was scumreading the hell out of EFHW to be fair. I reread half the game (63 pages of D1, lol I love everyone) and one of the townreads I got from it was her.

I presume scum was scared of doctors, as I can think of at least 4 people that were townier than her.

Don't forget there was most likely another NK.

[MiX]

Despite all the Dylan/EFHW fighting I didn't really get a townread on Dylan. I would like for him to claim who he vigged, and then if town got Larken they should pick Dylan. That seems to be the baseline decision.

[WestCoastDidds]

For NAI things...man...I was wrong. I was so wrong. I should've spent time rereading EFHW and not just dismissing her as town. That was my mistake.

But I was RIGHT!  And there was most definitely a dance of rightness, especially since it has been such a rare thing as of late.

[Glooble]

On the plus side, We got scum day 1 whooo! And, frankly, we eliminated a very *strong* scum player.

[WestCoastDidds]

Eddie- can I chat with you when you have a minute?

[WestCoastDidds]

On the plus side, We got scum day 1 whooo! And, frankly, we eliminated a very *strong* scum player.

100%. EFHW is the bomb.

[faust]

Well well well. I did not block you, MiX.

Also, I got the Larken. Fear my wrath!

[Glooble]

Eddie- can I chat with you when you have a minute?

What no flower?

[Rhand]

Oh why Cayvie?

@MiX: did anything bad happen to you?

No, why do you ask? Did you roleblock me?

No I watched you

[MiX]

For NAI things...man...I was wrong. I was so wrong. I should've spent time rereading EFHW and not just dismissing her as town. That was my mistake.

But I was RIGHT!  And there was most definitely a dance of rightness, especially since it has been such a rare thing as of late.

Can we have Didds as a D2 IC?

Eddie- can I chat with you when you have a minute?

What no flower?

Why flower when they're public knowledge now?

Oh why Cayvie?

@MiX: did anything bad happen to you?

No, why do you ask? Did you roleblock me?

No I watched you

Ooooh, that's not something you should claim. I guess there's 3 watchers, so it's fine.

Well well well. I did not block you, MiX.

Also, I got the Larken. Fear my wrath!

Did you bid 5? Just say yes, you bid at least 5 or it's incredibly humorous to claim as such.

[faust]

Oh why Cayvie?

@MiX: did anything bad happen to you?

No, why do you ask? Did you roleblock me?

No I watched you

Not sure that's the smartest thing to claim right of the gate... but then what were the results? Did you see anyone block MiX?

[faust]

Can we have Didds as a D2 IC?

I want that title though.

[WestCoastDidds]

Eddie- can I chat with you when you have a minute?

What no flower?

Dandelion!

[chairs]

Vote: mix

[MiX]

Can we have Didds as a D2 IC?

I want that title though.

I feel like giving it to hypercube...I think cayvie was right about you being scummy. Also it's way cooler when no one knows how to read you!

Vote: mix

Lol why.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: mix

Why's that chairs?

[LaLight]

hey guys, if no one redirected me, scola is town. not claiming anything else.

[faust]

Can we have Didds as a D2 IC?

I want that title though.

I feel like giving it to hypercube...I think cayvie was right about you being scummy. Also it's way cooler when no one knows how to read you!

I think I'm fine with establishing that being the last-minute counterwagon to a scum lynch is a town tell for me.

[LaLight]

also cayvie death is bad, but there are upsides. Not gonna tell what, again

[mail-mi]

Old friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.

Vote Count 2.1

MiX (1): chairs

Not Voting (15): Dylan32, LaLight, faust, MiX, hypercube, scolapasta, WestCoastDidds, Swowl, Rhand, jotheonah, Uncleeurope, Galzria, GreatHallScout, Glooble, Jimmmmm

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 lasts until 11:00AM FT on June 22, 2020.

[MiX]

hey guys, if no one redirected me, scola is town. not claiming anything else.

also cayvie death is bad, but there are upsides. Not gonna tell what, again

I knew LL was town!

Can we have Didds as a D2 IC?

I want that title though.

I feel like giving it to hypercube...I think cayvie was right about you being scummy. Also it's way cooler when no one knows how to read you!

I think I'm fine with establishing that being the last-minute counterwagon to a scum lynch is a town tell for me.

You can take townpoints, but never the IC hood. You can just make your own anyway right?

[MiX]

Vote: mix

Oh I get it.

chairs what was the townslip?

[WestCoastDidds]

@Rhand, did multiple people target MiX last night?

[jotheonah]

I had a mildly interesting night but nothing I feel the need to share just yet. But here I am.

Cayvie is a weird kill choice all told. Should make for an interesting re-read.

Really psyched about the D1 scum lynch, even if I was totally wrong about EFHW. I guess with a town this big scum has considerably less control over the D1 lynch, but I'll be doing a re-read to see if anyone stands out as trying to stop it. That is, if I ever find time to do a 50+ page re-read, have I mentioned that I hate huge games?

[scolapasta]

For NAI things...man...I was wrong. I was so wrong. I should've spent time rereading EFHW and not just dismissing her as town. That was my mistake.

I guess hypercube's town, and most likely faust as well.

How does this follow?

[MiX]

For NAI things...man...I was wrong. I was so wrong. I should've spent time rereading EFHW and not just dismissing her as town. That was my mistake.

I guess hypercube's town, and most likely faust as well.

How does this follow?

Counterwagons to the scum lynch.

[faust]

I'll be doing a re-read to see if anyone stands out as trying to stop it.

Some guy named joth comes to mind.

[scolapasta]

Well well well. I did not block you, MiX.

Why say this?

[chairs]

I'm a Truthwatcher. I breadcrumbed this D1 and then said a couple things that I felt turned it from breadcrumb into full on townslip.

Mix is non Town.

[faust]

Well well well. I did not block you, MiX.

Why say this?

Why not? He complained about being blocked, it's good to be on the record about that sort of stuff, especially since people know I have a roleblocker.

[jotheonah]

I'll be doing a re-read to see if anyone stands out as trying to stop it.

Some guy named joth comes to mind.

That feels like an unproductive focus for my reread, but I'll check it out.

[scolapasta]

hey guys, if no one redirected me, scola is town. not claiming anything else.

Can confirm, am town. Eddie if you want to convey anything from me to Gloobie, let me know.

[faust]

I'm a Truthwatcher. I breadcrumbed this D1 and then said a couple things that I felt turned it from breadcrumb into full on townslip.

Mix is non Town.

I think we're gonna need to know who targeted MiX.

[scolapasta]

Well well well. I did not block you, MiX.

Why say this?

Why not? He complained about being blocked, it's good to be on the record about that sort of stuff, especially since people know I have a roleblocker.

When? He said he was not blocked. (or am I missing some sarcasm or MiX-speak?)

[MiX]

chairs what was the townslip?

Vote: chairs

[scolapasta]

I'm a Truthwatcher. I breadcrumbed this D1 and then said a couple things that I felt turned it from breadcrumb into full on townslip.

Mix is non Town.

I did argue for this all day 1.

vote: MiX

[MiX]

Well well well. I did not block you, MiX.

Why say this?

Why not? He complained about being blocked, it's good to be on the record about that sort of stuff, especially since people know I have a roleblocker.

When? He said he was not blocked. (or am I missing some sarcasm or MiX-speak?)

I didn't say anything for real.

I'm a Truthwatcher. I breadcrumbed this D1 and then said a couple things that I felt turned it from breadcrumb into full on townslip.

Mix is non Town.

I did argue for this all day 1.

vote: MiX

Stop voting for a second. I need chairs to answer my question.

Rhand, do you confirm chairs' story? I mean obviously you do why am I asking.

[scolapasta]

It takes 9 to lynch - I'm not worried that my vote is as of yet actually dangerous to you.

[MiX]

It takes 9 to lynch - I'm not worried that my vote is as of yet actually dangerous to you.

I saw the Uncle wagon and I'm scared. There's a scum result on me that will obviously be corroborated by Rhand as otherwise chairs wouldn't say it.

I would like to see where chairs townslipped. I saw his cop claim, but that says nothing about his alignment.

[faust]

It takes 9 to lynch - I'm not worried that my vote is as of yet actually dangerous to you.

I saw the Uncle wagon and I'm scared. There's a scum result on me that will obviously be corroborated by Rhand as otherwise chairs wouldn't say it.

I would like to see where chairs townslipped. I saw his cop claim, but that says nothing about his alignment.

Ehh right.

Vote: MiX

But also unvote. If the Day ends too quickly, I won't have a chance to use my little reptile.

[LaLight]

vote: MiX

[MiX]

Vote: mix

vote: MiX

vote: MiX

3/9.

[jotheonah]

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where MiX is town.

chairs being scum seems totally crazy because we'll just lynch him tomorrow.

MiX being Alignment Inverted seems possible but not terribly likely.

chairs being scum who thinks he can get out of the lynch by appealing to the Alignment Inverters also seems far-fetched.

[jotheonah]

all in all pretty comfortable with vote: MiX

[jotheonah]

BUT I for one would like to have a high storm before the next night starts so I can recharge some spheres, so there might be merit to not rushing.

[faust]

MiX being Alignment Inverted seems possible but not terribly likely.

Why don't you wait and see how likely it is?

[MiX]

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where MiX is town.

chairs being scum seems totally crazy because we'll just lynch him tomorrow.

MiX being Alignment Inverted seems possible but not terribly likely.

chairs being scum who thinks he can get out of the lynch by appealing to the Alignment Inverters also seems far-fetched.

It's the real scenario.

That doesn't work like that and you know it.

Why would it be unlikely?

chairs could've known 2 people targeted me, and thus with Rhand's claim he can easily claim this happened.


I would love to see where chairs townslipped.

all in all pretty comfortable with vote: MiX

4/9.

[MiX]

BUT I for one would like to have a high storm before the next night starts so I can recharge some spheres, so there might be merit to not rushing.

We should definitely wait for deadline today, which is sad, since it means that if I'm scum I'll self-hammer.

[faust]

BUT I for one would like to have a high storm before the next night starts so I can recharge some spheres, so there might be merit to not rushing.

I hope that having to wait with the lynch for highstorms to come is not a thing.

mail-mi, can highstorms happen on a given Day if they were not announced at the start of that Day?

[mail-mi]

BUT I for one would like to have a high storm before the next night starts so I can recharge some spheres, so there might be merit to not rushing.

I hope that having to wait with the lynch for highstorms to come is not a thing.

mail-mi, can highstorms happen on a given Day if they were not announced at the start of that Day?

Highstorms will be announced in advance of when they will come. How far in advance is not public knowledge.

[MiX]

BUT I for one would like to have a high storm before the next night starts so I can recharge some spheres, so there might be merit to not rushing.

I hope that having to wait with the lynch for highstorms to come is not a thing.

mail-mi, can highstorms happen on a given Day if they were not announced at the start of that Day?

Highstorms will be announced in advance of when they will come. How far in advance is not public knowledge.

I suggest waiting 4 IRL days for a highstorm, faust.

[jotheonah]

That doesn't work like that and you know it.

Why would it be unlikely?

What doesn't work like what and I know what?

As for the second question, we know there were 17 people alive last night. So we're talking about the chances that out of all the people in town chairs happened to cop a scum. That's already prima facie unlikely -- he had a 3 in 17 chance (assuming 4 scum). But for the inverter theory to work, we now have to assume that Alignment-Inverting scum chose MiX out of all their choices to invert -- a 1 in 14 chance. And you're saying we live in the world where both of those things happened. It's totally possible, but 235 times out of 238 it just doesn't line up that way. And I know there are possibly multiples of everything, but whatever assumptions you make you're stuck with the fundamental truth that an Alignment Inverter and a cop happened to pick the same person. And MiX frankly isn't even in the top 3 of people I would have chosen to investigate.

[jotheonah]

wait, 3 in 16, and 1 in 15, I forgot to exclude people targeting themselves, but that's largely beside the point.

[faust]

BUT I for one would like to have a high storm before the next night starts so I can recharge some spheres, so there might be merit to not rushing.

I hope that having to wait with the lynch for highstorms to come is not a thing.

mail-mi, can highstorms happen on a given Day if they were not announced at the start of that Day?

Highstorms will be announced in advance of when they will come. How far in advance is not public knowledge.

I suggest waiting 4 IRL days for a highstorm, faust.

*sigh*

[jotheonah]

er 1 in 13

[scolapasta]

chairs could've known 2 people targeted me, and thus with Rhand's claim he can easily claim this happened.

How could he have known that?

(also why are cube and squire faust town?)

[MiX]

That doesn't work like that and you know it.

Why would it be unlikely?

What doesn't work like what and I know what?

As for the second question, we know there were 17 people alive last night. So we're talking about the chances that out of all the people in town chairs happened to cop a scum. That's already prima facie unlikely -- he had a 3 in 17 chance (assuming 4 scum). But for the inverter theory to work, we now have to assume that Alignment-Inverting scum chose MiX out of all their choices to invert -- a 1 in 14 chance. And you're saying we live in the world where both of those things happened. It's totally possible, but 235 times out of 238 it just doesn't line up that way. And I know there are possibly multiples of everything, but whatever assumptions you make you're stuck with the fundamental truth that an Alignment Inverter and a cop happened to pick the same person. And MiX frankly isn't even in the top 3 of people I would have chosen to investigate.

It doesn't work like that because of the alignment inverters.

chairs has made a claim of townslipping and hasn't actually came through. That for me says he's scum. The scum result's a bonus.

chairs could've known 2 people targeted me, and thus with Rhand's claim he can easily claim this happened.

How could he have known that?

(also why are cube and squire faust town?)

By 2 scum targeting me.

chairs could've known 2 people targeted me, and thus with Rhand's claim he can easily claim this happened.

How could he have known that?

(also why are cube and squire faust town?)

Because they were the counterwagons to EFHW's wagon.

[faust]

That doesn't work like that and you know it.

Why would it be unlikely?

What doesn't work like what and I know what?

As for the second question, we know there were 17 people alive last night. So we're talking about the chances that out of all the people in town chairs happened to cop a scum. That's already prima facie unlikely -- he had a 3 in 17 chance (assuming 4 scum). But for the inverter theory to work, we now have to assume that Alignment-Inverting scum chose MiX out of all their choices to invert -- a 1 in 14 chance. And you're saying we live in the world where both of those things happened. It's totally possible, but 235 times out of 238 it just doesn't line up that way. And I know there are possibly multiples of everything, but whatever assumptions you make you're stuck with the fundamental truth that an Alignment Inverter and a cop happened to pick the same person. And MiX frankly isn't even in the top 3 of people I would have chosen to investigate.

This is bad logic. We already know that we are in the world where chairs targeted MiX (unless you think he's lying in which case uh you probably shouldn't be voting for MiX). You also assume that there is only one scum Alignment-inverter.

[MiX]

wait, 3 in 16, and 1 in 15, I forgot to exclude people targeting themselves, but that's largely beside the point.

er 1 in 13

Did you...what...did you count scum!self twice when doing the 1 in 13 math?

[scolapasta]

Because they were the counterwagons to EFHW's wagon.

why can't counterwagons also be scum? I still think scum is MiX and at least one of {faust, cube, rhand}.

[chairs]

I'm phone posting so it is hard for me to go back to where I felt the breadcrumb turned into a slip but I don't feel that I "didn't come through" - I gave what information I can without spending more time than I have.

[hypercube]

It really won't be surprising to find a scum between MiX and chairs.

vote: MiX

[chairs]

Cube voting for mix makes me feel less good about it 

[MiX]

It really won't be surprising to find a scum between MiX and chairs.

vote: MiX

5/9.

I'm phone posting so it is hard for me to go back to where I felt the breadcrumb turned into a slip but I don't feel that I "didn't come through" - I gave what information I can without spending more time than I have.

Fine, I believe you are town.

I am a survivor and if I said anything more you wouldn't believe me.

I have claimed as such to Uncle when I got to him and made the hood QT into a makeshift third-party masonry.

We've killed scum, there's no reason to lynch me.

Unvote

[MiX]

I was the person that Uncle was in contact with which we couldn't account for: specifically I was in the hood when Dylan said whoever fullclaimed to him gave Uncle their win condition. So, I fullclaimed to Uncle. He knows absolutely everything I do. He has been lying about me to Glooble, as you can see you can't trust him. Uncle was unaccounted for at night, and is in the hood with me as we speak.

We need a highstorm.

Third-party AMA.

[hypercube]

Third-party AMA.

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

[MiX]

Third-party AMA.

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

I'm fairly certain town's win condition is to kill all threats to town. I'm not a threat to town.

[hypercube]

Third-party AMA.

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

I'm fairly certain town's win condition is to kill all threats to town. I'm not a threat to town.

Why should we believe your claim?

[scolapasta]

You're a survivor AND a knight?

[MiX]

Third-party AMA.

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

I'm fairly certain town's win condition is to kill all threats to town. I'm not a threat to town.

Why should we believe your claim?

Because it's pretty convoluted. Also I'm not in an order. Also Uncle can vouch for everything I claim here.

You're a survivor AND a knight?

No, I'm a Singer in slaveform.

[scolapasta]

Yet you claimed D1 to have Surge powers and an order specific power, yes?

[Glooble]

Ok, frustrating thing about being an IC in this game- everyone trusts you with their piece of the puzzle but you can’t trust anyone else to help you put them all together.

[MiX]

Yet you claimed D1 to have Surge powers and an order specific power, yes?

Yes. I was planning to fakeclaim Edgedancer if we did a massclaim. Every little slip I did was to this goal.

[hypercube]

Third-party AMA.

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

I'm fairly certain town's win condition is to kill all threats to town. I'm not a threat to town.

Why should we believe your claim?

Because it's pretty convoluted. Also I'm not in an order. Also Uncle can vouch for everything I claim here.

It doesn't seem that convoluted so far to me. I don't see why you didn't just full claim.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX-

Did you full claim to Eddie before Glooble? Does he share your wincon?

[MiX]

MiX-

Did you full claim to Eddie before Glooble? Does he share your wincon?

No, he's a survivor. This all originated with something he said in bard speak that Dylan misinterpreted. He's a survivor and has claimed as such to Glooble.

It doesn't seem that convoluted so far to me. I don't see why you didn't just full claim.

I'm getting around to that, I don't think it's pro-me to say everything immediately, I would rather have this questioning.

[MiX]

MiX-

Did you full claim to Eddie before Glooble? Does he share your wincon?

Well, yes, he does, but it's a mere coincidence, lol.

[hypercube]

MiX-

Did you full claim to Eddie before Glooble? Does he share your wincon?

No, he's a survivor. This all originated with something he said in bard speak that Dylan misinterpreted. He's a survivor and has claimed as such to Glooble.

It doesn't seem that convoluted so far to me. I don't see why you didn't just full claim.

I'm getting around to that, I don't think it's pro-me to say everything immediately, I would rather have this questioning.

Well, I don't think it's pro-town to give you more time to figure out your claim.

[MiX]

MiX-

Did you full claim to Eddie before Glooble? Does he share your wincon?

No, he's a survivor. This all originated with something he said in bard speak that Dylan misinterpreted. He's a survivor and has claimed as such to Glooble.

It doesn't seem that convoluted so far to me. I don't see why you didn't just full claim.

I'm getting around to that, I don't think it's pro-me to say everything immediately, I would rather have this questioning.

Well, I don't think it's pro-town to give you more time to figure out your claim.

I claimed everything to Uncle already. But fine.

As I said I'm a Singer in slaveform. During a highstorm, I can choose to change my form to nimbleform, warform or stormform. Given the flavor I read, nimbleform feels like survivor-y, warform some sort of SK maybe, and stormform traitor or SK. After this I will gain role powers.

I have 20 dun spheres.

There, that's my fullclaim.

[MiX]

Of course I forgot about the most meaningless thing about my fakeclaim: I'm a Parshman.

[Glooble]

MiX-

Did you full claim to Eddie before Glooble? Does he share your wincon?

Why would we want to keep this role alive?

No, he's a survivor. This all originated with something he said in bard speak that Dylan misinterpreted. He's a survivor and has claimed as such to Glooble.

It doesn't seem that convoluted so far to me. I don't see why you didn't just full claim.

I'm getting around to that, I don't think it's pro-me to say everything immediately, I would rather have this questioning.

Well, I don't think it's pro-town to give you more time to figure out your claim.

I claimed everything to Uncle already. But fine.

As I said I'm a Singer in slaveform. During a highstorm, I can choose to change my form to nimbleform, warform or stormform. Given the flavor I read, nimbleform feels like survivor-y, warform some sort of SK maybe, and stormform traitor or SK. After this I will gain role powers.

I have 20 dun spheres.

There, that's my fullclaim.

[scolapasta]

@MiX what actions did you perform last night? What powers do you have outside of this transformation?

Also, if I read this correctly, then you're NOT a survivor, but hypothesize that you can become one. Or a SK or traitor, both of which are anti-town.

What role power would you gain?

[Glooble]

Sorry messed up quoting. Meant to say “why would we keep this role alive?”.

[MiX]

Of course I forgot about the most meaningless thing about my fakeclaim: I'm a Parshman.

Lol.

Sorry messed up quoting. Meant to say “why would we keep this role alive?”.

I think you want to lynch scum. Why didn't we lynch Uncle? I presume the reason's the same.

@MiX what actions did you perform last night? What powers do you have outside of this transformation?

Also, if I read this correctly, then you're NOT a survivor, but hypothesize that you can become one. Or a SK or traitor, both of which are anti-town.

What role power would you gain?

I am a survivor now, although I doubt I will stay as such.

I have no other information than what I have said. I have no role powers.

[MiX]

To talk about what form I'm going to become: I wanted to side with Uncle, and I think siding with scum is easier from a D1 glance, so I wanted to be stormform, but now that EFHW flipped it's best for me to be nimbleform and hope I stay a survivor. Obviously I'm claiming that I'm going to side with town, but really, we lynched D1, why wouldn't I side with town?

[Glooble]

Eddie has useful powers to offer town, even if he didn’t want to use them too much for fear of drawing the nightkill. Eddie also doesn’t have the potential to add another nightkill. Very different situation.

[scolapasta]

Of course I forgot about the most meaningless thing about my fakeclaim: I'm a Parshman.

Confused here - Parshman is the fakeclaim?

[MiX]

Eddie has useful powers to offer town, even if he didn’t want to use them too much for fear of drawing the nightkill. Eddie also doesn’t have the potential to add another nightkill. Very different situation.

Lol @ trusting Uncle. I mean I could come up with powers too and then you make me live, right? Is that what town does? Believe third-party? Why does town believe third-party?

Look, there's no reason for me to pick a win condition where I'm the last threat to town. I'm going to be lynched eventually right? Why wouldn't I try to help town now? I want the game to end as fast as possible now.

And I'm getting probably useful powers too! I just don't know what they are yet!

It's incredibly dumb that you'd trust people that have lied (did Uncle tell you I was third-party?) and not people that are telling the truth because they don't know everything.

Of course I forgot about the most meaningless thing about my fakeclaim: I'm a Parshman.

Confused here - Parshman is the fakeclaim?

No, Parshman is my "name".

[Dylan32]

Mix, was uncle a survivor already, or did you claiming to him make him such?

[hypercube]

I think we should lynch MiX, the fact that we're in a good position after getting EFHW means we really have no need to keep a claimed potential scum alive.

We can deal with to what extent his claims change how much we should trust Eddie after we see his flip.

[Dylan32]

I think we should lynch MiX, the fact that we're in a good position after getting EFHW means we really have no need to keep a claimed potential scum alive.

We can deal with to what extent his claims change how much we should trust Eddie after we see his flip.

Or, we could scumhunt with our votes use town's other threat elimination resources deal with known 3rd party.

[Dylan32]

I think we should lynch MiX, the fact that we're in a good position after getting EFHW means we really have no need to keep a claimed potential scum alive.

We can deal with to what extent his claims change how much we should trust Eddie after we see his flip.

Or, we could scumhunt with our votes and use town's other threat elimination resources deal with known 3rd party.

edit

[MiX]

Mix, was uncle a survivor already, or did you claiming to him make him such?

He was already a survivor.

I think we should lynch MiX, the fact that we're in a good position after getting EFHW means we really have no need to keep a claimed potential scum alive.

We can deal with to what extent his claims change how much we should trust Eddie after we see his flip.

This is backwards, you press the advantage while you can. Scum's laughing right now because they had to rebound because of D1 but now I'm the D2 distraction.

Never get cocky. Scum can easily win if you don't pressure them now.

You can trust Uncle as much as you could before, which is not at all.

[scolapasta]

Of course I forgot about the most meaningless thing about my fakeclaim: I'm a Parshman.

Confused here - Parshman is the fakeclaim?

No, Parshman is my "name".

So "fakeclaim" was just a typo?

So back to my D1 "obsession", why would you think Reporter cost 15 to use? you had said "for some reasons". Now you can tell us those reasons in full.

I'm still OK with my vote. I may back off if we get close to 9 before Eddie has a chance to chime in.

[MiX]

Of course I forgot about the most meaningless thing about my fakeclaim: I'm a Parshman.

Confused here - Parshman is the fakeclaim?

No, Parshman is my "name".

So "fakeclaim" was just a typo?

So back to my D1 "obsession", why would you think Reporter cost 15 to use? you had said "for some reasons". Now you can tell us those reasons in full.

I'm still OK with my vote. I may back off if we get close to 9 before Eddie has a chance to chime in.

Yes.

I have 20 dun spheres, so when people would steal from me, they would see 10 spheres. I was thinking of claiming that I had 30 dun spheres to charge from using 2 15 cost powers. So I was thinking of 15 cost powers to fakeclaim. That's why I thought Dylan's was 15. It's a dumb mistake, but it must've been that.

I would rather lynch scum.

[Glooble]

I don’t think we should rush the day. We have a lot of investigations that happened, there might be a better lynch out there.

[hypercube]

I think we should lynch MiX, the fact that we're in a good position after getting EFHW means we really have no need to keep a claimed potential scum alive.

We can deal with to what extent his claims change how much we should trust Eddie after we see his flip.

Or, we could scumhunt with our votes use town's other threat elimination resources deal with known 3rd party.

Makes sense, although I think I'd still want to lynch him if we get warning of a higstorm coming. unvote

[WestCoastDidds]

This is backwards, you press the advantage while you can.

See, this is why we get along now.  This is literally one of the life lessons we try to impart to our kids.

[chairs]

unvote

I can see this claim making sense and I would rather try to lynch Mafia and let an Edgdancer handle MiX if it seems like this is going to be an issue.

Really need a dang high storm.

[MiX]

This is backwards, you press the advantage while you can.

See, this is why we get along now.  This is literally one of the life lessons we try to impart to our kids.

Lmao, mafia life lessons ftw.

I think we should lynch MiX, the fact that we're in a good position after getting EFHW means we really have no need to keep a claimed potential scum alive.

We can deal with to what extent his claims change how much we should trust Eddie after we see his flip.

Or, we could scumhunt with our votes use town's other threat elimination resources deal with known 3rd party.

Makes sense, although I think I'd still want to lynch him if we get warning of a higstorm coming. unvote

I mean, no, you'd rather know what powers I got, right? If you think I'm not picking nimbleform because I like to gamble, you're wrong. This is a terrible game to be SK after all.

unvote

I can see this claim making sense and I would rather try to lynch Mafia and let an Edgdancer handle MiX if it seems like this is going to be an issue.

Really need a dang high storm.

Good pick chairs. You got scum. Well done. Now, was this pro town? Technically not, as I was already going to pick nimbleform, but if there was a mislynch D1 then it would be.

[WestCoastDidds]

Eddie...whatcha doing and why are you being quiet?

[MiX]

Eddie...whatcha doing and why are you being quiet?

I betrayed him. Give him time to recollect.

I'm sorry Uncle. It had to be done.

[Glooble]

Eddie...whatcha doing and why are you being quiet?

He may not even have checked in.

[MiX]

Eddie...whatcha doing and why are you being quiet?

He may not even have checked in.

My hood QT with him that was open at the start of day has since closed.

[Uncleeurope]

"MiX doth speaketh truth, he claimeth to me,
Upon our first meet, Survivor he be,
Know not what he does, beyond what he said,
Though trust him, I do, his name is not Red.

Town doth share his goal, he’ll scumhunt for you,
Hunting scum is thy wish? ‘Tis his wish too,
But if killing me, is his strong’st desire,
Then let’s all throw him into the fire.

A withering glare shot out from the little man with the lyre.

Second point of truth, Survivor I be,
With Town-ish features, as you will soon see,
I wish that you all, would allow my life,
To let me Survive, in this time of strife.

Here I come, to address our Sir Dylan,
Whose words, misconstrued, paint me a villain,
He speaketh truth, I can speaketh to all,
Misheard me, he did, misheard through my drawl.

‘Full claim to me, and my win-con is yours’
Was the statement made, (to Dylan, of course),
Meaning an exchange would learn him my win,
He tellest me his, and mine goes to him.

My win-con is stable, solid and pure,
It cannot be shift’d, of this I am sure,
While I am no Knight, (I am but a fool),
I still can be used, and serve as a tool."

[scolapasta]

unvote

I can see this claim making sense and I would rather try to lynch Mafia and let an Edgdancer handle MiX if it seems like this is going to be an issue.

Really need a dang high storm.

Maybe a dumb question, but what would an Edgedancer do to handle MiX?

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie...whatcha doing and why are you being quiet?

I betrayed him. Give him time to recollect.

I'm sorry Uncle. It had to be done.

"Hmph, thou speakest lies. Wert thou under pressure of such greatness that thou coulds't not chance survival and waited for my defense of thine honour?

You chose what you chose out of panic and opportunism, and I will not soon forget thy choice."

[chairs]

unvote

I can see this claim making sense and I would rather try to lynch Mafia and let an Edgdancer handle MiX if it seems like this is going to be an issue.

Really need a dang high storm.

Maybe a dumb question, but what would an Edgedancer do to handle MiX?

Aren't they the vigs? Wait no that's duskwalker. Sorry for the confusion.

[MiX]

Eddie...whatcha doing and why are you being quiet?

I betrayed him. Give him time to recollect.

I'm sorry Uncle. It had to be done.

"Hmph, thou speakest lies. Wert thou under pressure of such greatness that thou coulds't not chance survival and waited for my defense of thine honour?

You chose what you chose out of panic and opportunism, and I will not soon forget thy choice."

You closed the hood. How could I rely on you?

[MiX]

Nevermind you did that after I...

...

Sorry Uncle but I don't think lying about your win condition is pro-town. And now I'm playing for town.

[Glooble]

I don't currently have any evidence that Uncle has misled me. He told me he was a survivor, but asked me not to tell the town, and based on what I knew I agreed to that.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie...whatcha doing and why are you being quiet?

I betrayed him. Give him time to recollect.

I'm sorry Uncle. It had to be done.

"Hmph, thou speakest lies. Wert thou under pressure of such greatness that thou coulds't not chance survival and waited for my defense of thine honour?

You chose what you chose out of panic and opportunism, and I will not soon forget thy choice."

You closed the hood. How could I rely on you?

"With trust, old friend, trust that bonded us together long ago.

Trust that I had in you, 'til thou snapp'd it in the same manner that someone woulds't brush away a cobweb."

[MiX]

Trust doesn't exist in my profession.

Vote: MiX

I believe this helps town.

[Uncleeurope]

Nevermind you did that after I...

...

Sorry Uncle but I don't think lying about your win condition is pro-town. And now I'm playing for town.

"Ah, but I did not lie, and I told thou as such, that Glooble knows the truth about my wish for life.

Silly t'would be, if a simple fool would care about the fight between this group enough to align myself to the first opportunistic voice that I hear."

[Galzria]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

[MiX]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

Yes.

Nevermind you did that after I...

...

Sorry Uncle but I don't think lying about your win condition is pro-town. And now I'm playing for town.

"Ah, but I did not lie, and I told thou as such, that Glooble knows the truth about my wish for life.

Silly t'would be, if a simple fool would care about the fight between this group enough to align myself to the first opportunistic voice that I hear."

I disagree with Glooble's decision.

[Uncleeurope]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

Yes.

Nevermind you did that after I...

...

Sorry Uncle but I don't think lying about your win condition is pro-town. And now I'm playing for town.

"Ah, but I did not lie, and I told thou as such, that Glooble knows the truth about my wish for life.

Silly t'would be, if a simple fool would care about the fight between this group enough to align myself to the first opportunistic voice that I hear."

I disagree with Glooble's decision.

"Ah, but thou knows not what he knows, old friend."

[MiX]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

Yes.

Nevermind you did that after I...

...

Sorry Uncle but I don't think lying about your win condition is pro-town. And now I'm playing for town.

"Ah, but I did not lie, and I told thou as such, that Glooble knows the truth about my wish for life.

Silly t'would be, if a simple fool would care about the fight between this group enough to align myself to the first opportunistic voice that I hear."

I disagree with Glooble's decision.

"Ah, but thou knows not what he knows, old friend."

Which is why I asked what he............................................................

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

You don't trust me! You never trusted me! I know nothing! You know everything! And you claim that I should've waited for you?

Vote: Galzria

[Uncleeurope]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

Yes.

Nevermind you did that after I...

...

Sorry Uncle but I don't think lying about your win condition is pro-town. And now I'm playing for town.

"Ah, but I did not lie, and I told thou as such, that Glooble knows the truth about my wish for life.

Silly t'would be, if a simple fool would care about the fight between this group enough to align myself to the first opportunistic voice that I hear."

I disagree with Glooble's decision.

"Ah, but thou knows not what he knows, old friend."

Which is why I asked what he............................................................

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

You don't trust me! You never trusted me! I know nothing! You know everything! And you claim that I should've waited for you?

Vote: Galzria

"I was going to tell thou more, as our relationship deepened, and now I am rewarded for my hesitance. We would be in dire shape, hads't thou leaked mine entire claim."

[WestCoastDidds]

Poor Mix. I hate it when his head explodes.

Glooble, Eddie...are you all still working on the plan that you said you were working on D1? Glooble, is Eddie holding up his end of the bargain?

[Uncleeurope]

"It is time, once more, for me to bids't that all members of our community make haste to have Quiet Times, so that I might be able to bump into you and make them unquiet."

[MiX]

"I was going to tell thou more, as our relationship deepened, and now I am rewarded for my hesitance. We would be in dire shape, hads't thou leaked mine entire claim."

I wouldn't do that! I didn't even...

I trusted you with everything! Yet you didn't. I didn't even reveal anything important. And you're blaming me? This will not end here.

Galzria is scum because he rationalized lynching third-party. I will not participate in this day phase anymore until I get my powers.

[Glooble]

Poor Mix. I hate it when his head explodes.

Glooble, Eddie...are you all still working on the plan that you said you were working on D1? Glooble, is Eddie holding up his end of the bargain?

Eddie has thus far given me no reason to stop trusting him.

[scolapasta]

Eddie, do you believe that I'm town? If so want to have a neighborhood with me and share any goodies?

[Uncleeurope]

Poor Mix. I hate it when his head explodes.

Glooble, Eddie...are you all still working on the plan that you said you were working on D1? Glooble, is Eddie holding up his end of the bargain?

Eddie has thus far given me no reason to stop trusting him.

Well, I have given you some reason, I am absolutely refusing to listen to this:

Eddie, do you believe that I'm town? If so want to have a neighborhood with me and share any goodies?

For example.

[Dylan32]

To be fair, if I were in your shoes, even if I was townreading scola, I don't think I'd trust that post and would instantly be suspicious of them...

[scolapasta]

Refusing to listen? I'm not sure I got that, I just wondered if you were yet convinced I was town, based on your reads, that LaLight's claim I am town.

I do think if we could figure out some other pseudo-ICs and connect them to Gloobie, so he can have a neighborhood (via eddie, e.g.) with them that would be good for town.

If you don't believe me yet, no worries.

[Dylan32]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

A watcher watches me, I shoot at MiX. Anyone RB, redirects, whatever, we have a caught scum.  I don't think scum would try to interfere with town shooting a 3rd party player, especially if they have a significant chance of being caught in the process.

ppe 1

[Rhand]

Can confirm Chairs targeted MiX. 2 others did too.
I only skimmed, will read more focused tomorrow morning.

[Uncleeurope]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

A watcher watches me, I shoot at MiX. Anyone RB, redirects, whatever, we have a caught scum.  I don't think scum would try to interfere with town shooting a 3rd party player, especially if they have a significant chance of being caught in the process.

ppe 1

"Watcher would need to watch MiX, which would be redirected."

[Dylan32]

So Uncle is a Survivor with Town PR related qualities, and MiX is a Survivor with anti-town PR related qualities.

Pretty sure I have that right?

There is no way to check what MiX would choose to become in a Highstorm, and relying on Dylan to handle him has plenty of flaws (RB, Redirection, etc)

A watcher watches me, I shoot at MiX. Anyone RB, redirects, whatever, we have a caught scum.  I don't think scum would try to interfere with town shooting a 3rd party player, especially if they have a significant chance of being caught in the process.

ppe 1

"Watcher would need to watch MiX, which would be redirected."

Ok, so yeah bus driver would be a problem there. But the rolestopper targeting MiX wouldn't stop a killing action. And if a watcher watches me they would see a roleblocker target me, and then assuming the kill failed, we know what that person did.  So the only real problem here would be bus driver, and then is that really something scum wants to spend stormlight on? Surely there are much better uses of bus-driving...

[MiX]

I'm glad we are now discussing how best to kill me.

I'm sure scum is getting spooked by this.

[scolapasta]

There still is a good chance you're scum and made up this fake claim based on flavor.

Others who have played with MiX, how creative is he in his fakeclaims?

[Glooble]

I'm glad we are now discussing how best to kill me.

I'm sure scum is getting spooked by this.

He's got a point. Might be better if people reread EFHW's day 1 interactions to try and look for potential partners.

There still is a good chance you're scum and made up this fake claim based on flavor.

Others who have played with MiX, how creative is he in his fakeclaims?

Would scum MiX have claimed third party to Uncle before he was outed?

[MiX]

There still is a good chance you're scum and made up this fake claim based on flavor.

Others who have played with MiX, how creative is he in his fakeclaims?

I studied the flavor carefully, but I don't know how to make fakeclaims. I've never made a real one that sticks.

[scolapasta]

I'm glad we are now discussing how best to kill me.

I'm sure scum is getting spooked by this.

He's got a point. Might be better if people reread EFHW's day 1 interactions to try and look for potential partners.

There still is a good chance you're scum and made up this fake claim based on flavor.

Others who have played with MiX, how creative is he in his fakeclaims?

Would scum MiX have claimed third party to Uncle before he was outed?

It's a good point. I do think it's possible, but even if he is, agree generally with the concept we should be trying to find other scum right now, as well.

In light of that:

unvote

but I'm probably one of the easier ones to convince to get back on board.

[faust]

We should be trying to find other scum.

Like, for instance, hypercube.

Vote: hypercube

[Uncleeurope]

We should be trying to find other scum.

Like, for instance, hypercube.

Vote: hypercube

Vote: Hypercube

[scolapasta]

So assuming one of the Windrunners is scum (which may be incorrect, but for assumption sake), why cube over faust? And what about Rhand?

For me currently it's faust > cube > rhand

[faust]

So assuming one of the Windrunners is scum (which may be incorrect, but for assumption sake), why cube over faust? And what about Rhand?

For me currently it's faust > cube > rhand

You thinkk the end of D1 goes as it did if I am scum?

[Rhand]

Hyper >>>>>>> faust.

I would like to know if anyone was roleblocked.

[faust]

Eddie - could you talk to me once you're free? I need to ask you something but I don't want it to be public.

[faust]

Eddie - could you talk to me once you're free? I need to ask you something but I don't want it to be public.

However I will be asleep soon, so it can probably wait a couple hours.

[scolapasta]

So assuming one of the Windrunners is scum (which may be incorrect, but for assumption sake), why cube over faust? And what about Rhand?

For me currently it's faust > cube > rhand

You thinkk the end of D1 goes as it did if I am scum?

In what way?

It seems to me that people (and experience people, so I do want to understand) seem to think if two wagons and one is lynched and found to be scum, the other is town. But why couldn't both be scum?

[faust]

So assuming one of the Windrunners is scum (which may be incorrect, but for assumption sake), why cube over faust? And what about Rhand?

For me currently it's faust > cube > rhand

You thinkk the end of D1 goes as it did if I am scum?

In what way?

It seems to me that people (and experience people, so I do want to understand) seem to think if two wagons and one is lynched and found to be scum, the other is town. But why couldn't both be scum?

If there's a wagon on scum, chances are it's made up of mostly townies. So the majority of town are already busy voting somewhere. To make an alternative wagon succeed, you need scum to push it too. And scum have no strong incentive to push one wagon on a partner over another.

[Glooble]

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

[scolapasta]

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

[Swowl]

Third-party AMA.

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

I'm fairly certain town's win condition is to kill all threats to town. I'm not a threat to town.

Why should we believe your claim?

Because it's pretty convoluted. Also I'm not in an order. Also Uncle can vouch for everything I claim here.

You're a survivor AND a knight?

No, I'm a Singer in slaveform.

I mean if you are telling us that Uncle was lying to glooble about you, so we cannot trust them... the he can vouch for you part doesn't really matter a whole hell of a lot.

[Glooble]

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

[Galzria]

Faust is, at a very minimum, not scum with EFHW. If we’re in multi-ball, that’s about all that can be said there. If we’re not in multi-ball, then unless he’s third party, he’s much more likely to be Town based on the end of day yesterday, as per his response here:

So assuming one of the Windrunners is scum (which may be incorrect, but for assumption sake), why cube over faust? And what about Rhand?

For me currently it's faust > cube > rhand

You thinkk the end of D1 goes as it did if I am scum?

In what way?

It seems to me that people (and experience people, so I do want to understand) seem to think if two wagons and one is lynched and found to be scum, the other is town. But why couldn't both be scum?

If there's a wagon on scum, chances are it's made up of mostly townies. So the majority of town are already busy voting somewhere. To make an alternative wagon succeed, you need scum to push it too. And scum have no strong incentive to push one wagon on a partner over another.

[Galzria]

Faust, how strong is your read on Cube? Am I wrong in believing you sacrificed your given power to acquire the power of the Larken, in part to free yourself from the restrictions placed on you based around Cube? Eh, maybe don’t answer that. Well, the second part. The first question holds though.

[Swowl]

Vote: Hypercube

[scolapasta]

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

Got it. This pleases me. I'm willing to accept that faust is town.

so cube > rhand > faust

[Jimmmmm]

Checking in. As mentioned elsewhere, my availability has just gone down significantly. If the game hadn't started I would drop out, but I do plan to see it through. I'll try to set aside a reasonable amount of time for this each day, but please be aware that I'll generally only be posting at specific times and that I'll have increased difficulty in keeping up.

[jotheonah]

So assuming we believe MiX's claim, what can we conclude about chairs's alignment, since we certainly can have scum cops in this setup and if a scum cop got a not town result a non-partner they might still share it with town.

Actually, I'm not sure they would. If I'm a scum cop and I find a  mysterious third party, what are the options:

1. They're a SK -- keep alive for a while to get those double kills
2. They're a traitor -- really don't want to out them
3. They're a survivor/other neutral -- some value in reporting for town cred, but still results in a suboptimal lynch

I've convinced myself that this development makes chairs pretty towny if MiX flips anything but town. So that means we have Glooble as IC, faust and scola as psuedo-ICs, chairs as a conditional pseudo-IC, Uncle and MiX as claimed 3rd parties. Our pool of possible scum is really just 10 players right now, 9 for those of us not on that list who know our own alignment.

[scolapasta]

So assuming we believe MiX's claim, what can we conclude about chairs's alignment, since we certainly can have scum cops in this setup and if a scum cop got a not town result a non-partner they might still share it with town.

Actually, I'm not sure they would. If I'm a scum cop and I find a  mysterious third party, what are the options:

1. They're a SK -- keep alive for a while to get those double kills
2. They're a traitor -- really don't want to out them
3. They're a survivor/other neutral -- some value in reporting for town cred, but still results in a suboptimal lynch

I've convinced myself that this development makes chairs pretty towny if MiX flips anything but town. So that means we have Glooble as IC, faust and scola as psuedo-ICs, chairs as a conditional pseudo-IC, Uncle and MiX as claimed 3rd parties. Our pool of possible scum is really just 10 players right now, 9 for those of us not on that list who know our own alignment.

My read on joth from this post but also other things is joth is town. So for me that leaves 9 suspects, if I accept MiX as 3rd party.

[MiX]

So assuming we believe MiX's claim, what can we conclude about chairs's alignment, since we certainly can have scum cops in this setup and if a scum cop got a not town result a non-partner they might still share it with town.

Actually, I'm not sure they would. If I'm a scum cop and I find a  mysterious third party, what are the options:

1. They're a SK -- keep alive for a while to get those double kills
2. They're a traitor -- really don't want to out them
3. They're a survivor/other neutral -- some value in reporting for town cred, but still results in a suboptimal lynch

I've convinced myself that this development makes chairs pretty towny if MiX flips anything but town. So that means we have Glooble as IC, faust and scola as psuedo-ICs, chairs as a conditional pseudo-IC, Uncle and MiX as claimed 3rd parties. Our pool of possible scum is really just 10 players right now, 9 for those of us not on that list who know our own alignment.

My read on joth from this post but also other things is joth is town. So for me that leaves 9 suspects, if I accept MiX as 3rd party.

I can't flip town so I have no idea what joth's talking about.

[Rhand]

So assuming we believe MiX's claim, what can we conclude about chairs's alignment, since we certainly can have scum cops in this setup and if a scum cop got a not town result a non-partner they might still share it with town.

Actually, I'm not sure they would. If I'm a scum cop and I find a  mysterious third party, what are the options:

1. They're a SK -- keep alive for a while to get those double kills
2. They're a traitor -- really don't want to out them
3. They're a survivor/other neutral -- some value in reporting for town cred, but still results in a suboptimal lynch

I've convinced myself that this development makes chairs pretty towny if MiX flips anything but town. So that means we have Glooble as IC, faust and scola as psuedo-ICs, chairs as a conditional pseudo-IC, Uncle and MiX as claimed 3rd parties. Our pool of possible scum is really just 10 players right now, 9 for those of us not on that list who know our own alignment.

My read on joth from this post but also other things is joth is town. So for me that leaves 9 suspects, if I accept MiX as 3rd party.

I can't flip town so I have no idea what joth's talking about.

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

[MiX]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

[scolapasta]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

Why not? I know I'm not the only one who thinks joth is town.

[Galzria]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

If a Mafia team has only two people in a game this size, they would be almost certain it’s multi-ball, and would be looking for other scum.

If we’re not in a multi-ball setup, my suspicion of Swowl just went up greatly.

And yes, Chairs is Town.

[Galzria]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

If a Mafia team has only two people in a game this size, they would be almost certain it’s multi-ball, and would be looking for other scum.

If we’re not in a multi-ball setup, my suspicion of Swowl just went up greatly.

And yes, Chairs is Town.

Err, Rhand. Phone posting. Confused myself on who said what.

[Rhand]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

Oh that was to strengthen your argument that Joth’s post makes no sense.

PPE: do you have unannounced multiball games on this site? :/

[Galzria]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

Oh that was to strengthen your argument that Joth’s post makes no sense.

PPE: do you have unannounced multiball games on this site? :/

If it’s not an open setup, anything is possible. Generally, most games are not, however in a game this size it’s somewhat more likely.

[Rhand]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

Oh that was to strengthen your argument that Joth’s post makes no sense.

PPE: do you have unannounced multiball games on this site? :/

If it’s not an open setup, anything is possible. Generally, most games are not, however in a game this size it’s somewhat more likely.

That happened on mtgs once and will never be repeated because of town’s anger at the end lol.
I always saw multiball as bastard.

[MiX]

Why even would mafia ever spend stormlight on a cop shot?

To catch a third-party? I don't know why you wouldn't just invert.

I don't know why you quoted me I think chairs is 100% town. I don't think joth is.

Oh that was to strengthen your argument that Joth’s post makes no sense.

PPE: do you have unannounced multiball games on this site? :/

If it’s not an open setup, anything is possible. Generally, most games are not, however in a game this size it’s somewhat more likely.

That happened on mtgs once and will never be repeated because of town’s anger at the end lol.
I always saw multiball as bastard.

Given what I know, I doubt there's multiball. My warform most likely has some sort of killing ability, and so I wouldn't be surprised if I was the dedicated SK.

Multiball is allowed but frowned upon in RMMs around here.

[jotheonah]

When we say "multiball" are we only referring to 2 scum teams, or are we including scum + SK. I don't think there's a huge difference between the two in terms of bastardness.

I also don't understand why people are scumreading me for making a post that comes to the same conclusion as they have. It might be obvious to you that scum wouldn't cop, but it's not obvious to me. Especially in a setup this big.

Consider this. You're a Scum Truthseer. At some point, you have to assume, you're going to have to claim. If you do anything but cop, you will have to explain why you didn't cop. Sure you can pretend to cop, but there's so much happening in this game -- watchers, trackers, redirectors. Actually copping is the safest way to make sure you don't get caught not copping, and there are definitely players who would do that for that reason alone. So it's not crazy to talk these things out.

[MiX]

When we say "multiball" are we only referring to 2 scum teams, or are we including scum + SK. I don't think there's a huge difference between the two in terms of bastardness.

I also don't understand why people are scumreading me for making a post that comes to the same conclusion as they have. It might be obvious to you that scum wouldn't cop, but it's not obvious to me. Especially in a setup this big.

Consider this. You're a Scum Truthseer. At some point, you have to assume, you're going to have to claim. If you do anything but cop, you will have to explain why you didn't cop. Sure you can pretend to cop, but there's so much happening in this game -- watchers, trackers, redirectors. Actually copping is the safest way to make sure you don't get caught not copping, and there are definitely players who would do that for that reason alone. So it's not crazy to talk these things out.

The best way to cop is to alignment invert. That also makes you target a person.

[LaLight]

So assuming we believe MiX's claim, what can we conclude about chairs's alignment, since we certainly can have scum cops in this setup and if a scum cop got a not town result a non-partner they might still share it with town.

Actually, I'm not sure they would. If I'm a scum cop and I find a  mysterious third party, what are the options:

1. They're a SK -- keep alive for a while to get those double kills
2. They're a traitor -- really don't want to out them
3. They're a survivor/other neutral -- some value in reporting for town cred, but still results in a suboptimal lynch

I've convinced myself that this development makes chairs pretty towny if MiX flips anything but town. So that means we have Glooble as IC, faust and scola as psuedo-ICs, chairs as a conditional pseudo-IC, Uncle and MiX as claimed 3rd parties. Our pool of possible scum is really just 10 players right now, 9 for those of us not on that list who know our own alignment.

also scola and me are town

[scolapasta]

So assuming we believe MiX's claim, what can we conclude about chairs's alignment, since we certainly can have scum cops in this setup and if a scum cop got a not town result a non-partner they might still share it with town.

Actually, I'm not sure they would. If I'm a scum cop and I find a  mysterious third party, what are the options:

1. They're a SK -- keep alive for a while to get those double kills
2. They're a traitor -- really don't want to out them
3. They're a survivor/other neutral -- some value in reporting for town cred, but still results in a suboptimal lynch

I've convinced myself that this development makes chairs pretty towny if MiX flips anything but town. So that means we have Glooble as IC, faust and scola as psuedo-ICs, chairs as a conditional pseudo-IC, Uncle and MiX as claimed 3rd parties. Our pool of possible scum is really just 10 players right now, 9 for those of us not on that list who know our own alignment.

also scola and me are town

Why you as well?

[MiX]

My town list is scolapasta, faust, Didds, Rhand, chairs, LL, Glooble and Uncle (because why not). Surely we can lynch scum today without me trying, right?

[WestCoastDidds]

My town list is scolapasta, faust, Didds, Rhand, chairs, LL, Glooble and Uncle (because why not). Surely we can lynch scum today without me trying, right?

What do you think about GHS? More or less scummy than hypercube?

[MiX]

My town list is scolapasta, faust, Didds, Rhand, chairs, LL, Glooble and Uncle (because why not). Surely we can lynch scum today without me trying, right?

What do you think about GHS? More or less scummy than hypercube?

More.

[scolapasta]

Yeah, now that I have some of my own reads I do want to go back to 60+ pages of D1 to see others' reads. Like that one GHS post. Anyone remember the #?

[scolapasta]

Yeah, now that I have some of my own reads I do want to go back to 60+ pages of D1 to see others' reads. Like that one GHS post. Anyone remember the #?

Found it:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg841732#msg841732

[Greathallscout]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

[Glooble]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

[faust]

Well, that throws a wrench into my theories.

unvote

Even though hypercube would be a prime target for alignment inversion.

[faust]

Or me for that matter, I guess. It suffices if one of us was inverted to invalidate that result. Hm.

[mail-mi]

I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think.

Vote Count 2.2

MiX (2): LaLight, jotheonah
Galzria (1): MiX
hypercube (2): Uncleeurope, Swowl

Not Voting (10): Dylan32, faust, WestCoastDidds, Rhand, Galzria, GreatHallScout, Glooble, Jimmmmm, hypercube, chairs, scolapasta

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 lasts until 11:00AM FT on June 22, 2020.

[faust]

I still feel it's worth to share my thoughts on hyper.

The initial assumption is that - well, he was a counter-wagon to EFHW, right? So that's gotta a town tell.
Now let's look at that wagon:

hypercube (6): chairs, MiX, Rhand, Glooble, jotheonah, EFHW

Who do we have? chairs, who has been extremely towny. MiX, who is pretty certainly third-party. Rhand, who was instrumental in getting the EFHW lynch instead of mine. The IC Glooble. Then comes joth, who admittedly I don't have such good things to say about, but the first 4 votes on this wagon did not come from scum I believe.

Compare to the final D1 vote count:

chairs (1): Dylan32
EFHW (10): faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, chairs, MiX, Rhand, GreatHallScout, hypercube
faust (6): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl, jotheonah

All the people who started the hyper wagon are now on EFHW. The only overlap of my wagon with hyper's is {joth, EFHW}. Now EFHW is going to vote anywhere out of self-preservation, but it's notable that

vote: faust. Self-preservation, obviously.

she left the hyper wagon when it had 4 votes, to be the second vote on another wagon. True self-preservation would be to try and keep the main counter-wagon alive.

The only thing that's kind of a question mark in this is joth. I would not be opposed to lynching him first, as that will help us determine to what extent exactly the hyper wagon was town-driven.

There is also the fact that our QT conversations have me a little suspicious, hyper seemed very fine with sharing information about who he's targeting when town I think would have been more suspicious there. And the results he has are extremely convenient.

[faust]

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

Why anyone would pick me as an investigation target is beyond me.

[Uncleeurope]

”I’m here.”

[Dylan32]

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

Why anyone would pick me as an investigation target is beyond me.

Let's be honest, there probably aren't many people who are confident in their ability to read you, so you are kind of a default investigation target because of your rep, especially with how EoD went in this case. But of course, I wasn't the one who did it, so I don't know what they were thinking. You wouldn't have been my first choice to cop there due to my memory of town!you being a frequent N1 kill, but maybe people have been softening on that a bit the last couple years.

[faust]

Let's be honest, there probably aren't many people who are confident in their ability to read you, so you are kind of a default investigation target because of your rep, especially with how EoD went in this case. But of course, I wasn't the one who did it, so I don't know what they were thinking. You wouldn't have been my first choice to cop there due to my memory of town!you being a frequent N1 kill, but maybe people have been softening on that a bit the last couple years.

Exactly - I'm the default target. And there are alignment inverters. I understand people who still think I could be scum, but even if they do, investigating me is still terrible because the result is much less conclusive than if you investigate a low-profile player.

[Swowl]

Let's be honest, there probably aren't many people who are confident in their ability to read you, so you are kind of a default investigation target because of your rep, especially with how EoD went in this case. But of course, I wasn't the one who did it, so I don't know what they were thinking. You wouldn't have been my first choice to cop there due to my memory of town!you being a frequent N1 kill, but maybe people have been softening on that a bit the last couple years.

Exactly - I'm the default target. And there are alignment inverters. I understand people who still think I could be scum, but even if they do, investigating me is still terrible because the result is much less conclusive than if you investigate a low-profile player.

so as I imagine you are not arguing that your alignment was inverted and you are actually skum....
You think whoever is telling eddie is lying for cred?

[Rhand]

Trust doesn't exist in my profession.

Vote: MiX

I believe this helps town.

This doesn’t add up. If you are a survivor, your only wincon is to not die.
How can you be ok with your lynch / getting vigged?

[Galzria]

Let's be honest, there probably aren't many people who are confident in their ability to read you, so you are kind of a default investigation target because of your rep, especially with how EoD went in this case. But of course, I wasn't the one who did it, so I don't know what they were thinking. You wouldn't have been my first choice to cop there due to my memory of town!you being a frequent N1 kill, but maybe people have been softening on that a bit the last couple years.

Exactly - I'm the default target. And there are alignment inverters. I understand people who still think I could be scum, but even if they do, investigating me is still terrible because the result is much less conclusive than if you investigate a low-profile player.

so as I imagine you are not arguing that your alignment was inverted and you are actually skum....
You think whoever is telling eddie is lying for cred?

This has nothing to do with Eddie. GHS claimed to have modified-cop’ed Hyper/faust, getting the result that they are of the same alignment.

Faust’s comment is merely pointing out that choosing him as an investigation target in a game with alignment inversion as a possible mechanic doesn’t seem the best, as he may very well be a good target for such inversion.

[Swowl]

Let's be honest, there probably aren't many people who are confident in their ability to read you, so you are kind of a default investigation target because of your rep, especially with how EoD went in this case. But of course, I wasn't the one who did it, so I don't know what they were thinking. You wouldn't have been my first choice to cop there due to my memory of town!you being a frequent N1 kill, but maybe people have been softening on that a bit the last couple years.

Exactly - I'm the default target. And there are alignment inverters. I understand people who still think I could be scum, but even if they do, investigating me is still terrible because the result is much less conclusive than if you investigate a low-profile player.

so as I imagine you are not arguing that your alignment was inverted and you are actually skum....
You think whoever is telling eddie is lying for cred?

This has nothing to do with Eddie. GHS claimed to have modified-cop’ed Hyper/faust, getting the result that they are of the same alignment.

Faust’s comment is merely pointing out that choosing him as an investigation target in a game with alignment inversion as a possible mechanic doesn’t seem the best, as he may very well be a good target for such inversion.

ok fair. I thought eddie said someone else claimed to of copped faust and got town though? is that not right?

[Galzria]

Let's be honest, there probably aren't many people who are confident in their ability to read you, so you are kind of a default investigation target because of your rep, especially with how EoD went in this case. But of course, I wasn't the one who did it, so I don't know what they were thinking. You wouldn't have been my first choice to cop there due to my memory of town!you being a frequent N1 kill, but maybe people have been softening on that a bit the last couple years.

Exactly - I'm the default target. And there are alignment inverters. I understand people who still think I could be scum, but even if they do, investigating me is still terrible because the result is much less conclusive than if you investigate a low-profile player.

so as I imagine you are not arguing that your alignment was inverted and you are actually skum....
You think whoever is telling eddie is lying for cred?

This has nothing to do with Eddie. GHS claimed to have modified-cop’ed Hyper/faust, getting the result that they are of the same alignment.

Faust’s comment is merely pointing out that choosing him as an investigation target in a game with alignment inversion as a possible mechanic doesn’t seem the best, as he may very well be a good target for such inversion.

ok fair. I thought eddie said someone else claimed to of copped faust and got town though? is that not right?

Glooble said that he has reason to believe faust is Town.

[Swowl]

Let's be honest, there probably aren't many people who are confident in their ability to read you, so you are kind of a default investigation target because of your rep, especially with how EoD went in this case. But of course, I wasn't the one who did it, so I don't know what they were thinking. You wouldn't have been my first choice to cop there due to my memory of town!you being a frequent N1 kill, but maybe people have been softening on that a bit the last couple years.

Exactly - I'm the default target. And there are alignment inverters. I understand people who still think I could be scum, but even if they do, investigating me is still terrible because the result is much less conclusive than if you investigate a low-profile player.

so as I imagine you are not arguing that your alignment was inverted and you are actually skum....
You think whoever is telling eddie is lying for cred?

This has nothing to do with Eddie. GHS claimed to have modified-cop’ed Hyper/faust, getting the result that they are of the same alignment.

Faust’s comment is merely pointing out that choosing him as an investigation target in a game with alignment inversion as a possible mechanic doesn’t seem the best, as he may very well be a good target for such inversion.

ok fair. I thought eddie said someone else claimed to of copped faust and got town though? is that not right?

Glooble said that he has reason to believe faust is Town.

well then nvm. this is hard to keep track of.

[hypercube]

There is also the fact that our QT conversations have me a little suspicious, hyper seemed very fine with sharing information about who he's targeting when town I think would have been more suspicious there. And the results he has are extremely convenient.

If you think I could be lying about the results I may as well claim them, I watched Eddie last night and got no result.

Given that I didn't have any particular reason to think you were scum (especially after EFHW flipped), I don't think that telling you who I was going to target was particularly risky. The chances of you being scum and that the knowledge of who I'd target would change the NK target are pretty slim, I think we gain more by coordinating

[hypercube]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

vote: GHS "I know these two people's alignments are the same" seems like an easy thing for scum to claim, especially if they're trying to avoid claiming normal cop.

He also avoided voting for EFHW until Rhand moved his vote and it was clear she was going to be lynched.

[faust]

GHS - what is your order, and what is your order's special power?

[MiX]

vote: faust. Self-preservation, obviously.

she left the hyper wagon when it had 4 votes, to be the second vote on another wagon. True self-preservation would be to try and keep the main counter-wagon alive.

At this point the hyper wagon wasn't viable.

Trust doesn't exist in my profession.

Vote: MiX

I believe this helps town.

This doesn’t add up. If you are a survivor, your only wincon is to not die.
How can you be ok with your lynch / getting vigged?

Because town is discussing how best to vig me during the day. What can I do to stop that? Nothing. So why play at all?

There is also the fact that our QT conversations have me a little suspicious, hyper seemed very fine with sharing information about who he's targeting when town I think would have been more suspicious there. And the results he has are extremely convenient.

If you think I could be lying about the results I may as well claim them, I watched Eddie last night and got no result.

Given that I didn't have any particular reason to think you were scum (especially after EFHW flipped), I don't think that telling you who I was going to target was particularly risky. The chances of you being scum and that the knowledge of who I'd target would change the NK target are pretty slim, I think we gain more by coordinating

You could've picked someone that had an above zero chance of getting NK'd, you know.

[Jimmmmm]

Looks like the list of re-reads I need to do has been significantly reduced; it seems like I don't need to do one for Glooble, faust, MiX or Eddie. First one tomorrow!

[jotheonah]

Ok, so:

[Mysterious cop] investigated faust, got town
GHS mod. copped faust and hypercube, got same alignment

Possibilities:

-Both are town, no alignment inverters
-Both are scum, both got alignment inverted
-One is town and one is scum, one got alignment inverted
-GHS/Mysterious cop is scum, in which case we know nothing

[faust]

[Mysterious cop] investigated faust, got town

Not that I don't like to be ICed, but we don't know that the result on me here was a Cop result. Maybe I just did some amazingly townie-looking targeting tonight. (I did.)

[faust]

Possibilities:

-Both are town, no alignment inverters
-Both are scum, both got alignment inverted
-One is town and one is scum, one got alignment inverted
-GHS/Mysterious cop is scum, in which case we know nothing

I like how you list two options where one of 2 players is scum, but the latter qualifies as "we know nothing" and the former doesn't.

[jotheonah]

Possibilities:

-Both are town, no alignment inverters
-Both are scum, both got alignment inverted
-One is town and one is scum, one got alignment inverted
-GHS/Mysterious cop is scum, in which case we know nothing

I like how you list two options where one of 2 players is scum, but the latter qualifies as "we know nothing" and the former doesn't.

Bullet point four was just sort of a reminder/footnote that just because someone has claimed a result doesn't mean we can trust them. I suppose I could expand to include more options:

-GHS is lying but MC isn't, in which case faust is town but hyper could be either alignment
-MC is lying but GHS isn't, in which case faust is scum and so is hyper (barring inversions)
-Both are lying, in which case we really don't know anything (except that GHS and MC are probably not town-aligned)

[WestCoastDidds]

Who is MC?

[MiX]

Who is MC?

Mysterious Cop.

[chairs]

Main Character

[WestCoastDidds]

Who is MC?

Mysterious Cop.

ahhhhhhhh

[MiX]

Main Character

At this point, yeah.

Hey guys why is Galzria town?

[MiX]

Eddie.

Give me one reason to not tell me everything.

[Rhand]

Sorry for having a less active day. I had an important job interview today and all my energy went there. And now my brain needs to cool down

[WestCoastDidds]

Sorry for having a less active day. I had an important job interview today and all my energy went there. And now my brain needs to cool down

I hope it went well!!  Fingers crossed for you!!!

[Galzria]

Main Character

At this point, yeah.

Hey guys why is Galzria town?

Because my Personal QT says so.

[MiX]

Main Character

At this point, yeah.

Hey guys why is Galzria town?

Because my Personal QT says so.

Are you sure it didn't get Alignment Inverted?

[scolapasta]

Still waiting to find out why LaLight is town? (also, are you willing to reveal why I am town?)

Gloobie will you confirm if your source is a cop?

[Glooble]

Still waiting to find out why LaLight is town? (also, are you willing to reveal why I am town?)

Gloobie will you confirm if your source is a cop?

My source claimed to be a cop.

[faust]

Vote: joth

[scolapasta]

So if we assume lalight is a cop, then we have three claimed cops?

Chairs (copped MiX)
MC (copped faust)
LaLight (copped me)

Obviously everything can be random, we don't know, but doesn't leave much room for alignment inverters.

[MiX]

So if we assume lalight is a cop, then we have three claimed cops?

Chairs (copped MiX)
MC (copped faust)
LaLight (copped me)

Obviously everything can be random, we don't know, but doesn't leave much room for alignment inverters.

There can easily be 1 more cop.

[scolapasta]

Sure, I think 1 more is possible. just a) less likely two or more.

And if only 1, then at least 2 of our claimed cops (assuming they're telling the truth) got real results.

(then again, bus driver, redirector shenanigans)

[scolapasta]

[Mysterious cop] investigated faust, got town

Not that I don't like to be ICed, but we don't know that the result on me here was a Cop result. Maybe I just did some amazingly townie-looking targeting tonight. (I did.)

Are you willing to tell more about what you did? I would think we'd being hearing more from those who's orders are already claimed (i.e. not just you).

[Galzria]

vote: joth

[Greathallscout]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

i thought getting some info connecting 2 other players would be better and thought scum might alignment invert you more because they would think people would do your plan.

Also- Cop costs 15 and modified cop costs 30. not sure if that supports my idea that at least yams and e thinks getting info from 2 is better.

[Greathallscout]

GHS - what is your order, and what is your order's special power?

I don't think its a good idea for me to say yet.

[Greathallscout]

Or me for that matter, I guess. It suffices if one of us was inverted to invalidate that result. Hm.

Did you say this to help all of us? because you have a "town" result on you...

[faust]

Or me for that matter, I guess. It suffices if one of us was inverted to invalidate that result. Hm.

Did you say this to help all of us? because you have a "town" result on you...

Well at the time I thought it could also just be a Tracking result in my favor.

[Greathallscout]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

vote: GHS "I know these two people's alignments are the same" seems like an easy thing for scum to claim, especially if they're trying to avoid claiming normal cop.

He also avoided voting for EFHW until Rhand moved his vote and it was clear she was going to be lynched.

I dont understand how "easy" means I'm scum.  and why would i avoid a normal cop more than a mod cop?

I'm not sure why you think it was clear she would be lynched? who wouldve voted for her?

[faust]

Also- Cop costs 15 and modified cop costs 30. not sure if that supports my idea that at least yams and e thinks getting info from 2 is better.

The prices don't correlate to power level necessarily. Cop is better than Vig but Vig costs 50. Everything is better than Lightning Rod, and that also costs 50.

[faust]

GHS - what is your order, and what is your order's special power?

I don't think its a good idea for me to say yet.

I mean, I disagree. It would go a long way towards confirming your claim.

[faust]

[Mysterious cop] investigated faust, got town

Not that I don't like to be ICed, but we don't know that the result on me here was a Cop result. Maybe I just did some amazingly townie-looking targeting tonight. (I did.)

Are you willing to tell more about what you did? I would think we'd being hearing more from those who's orders are already claimed (i.e. not just you).

I don't want to share more at the moment. Eddie knows what I did.

[Dylan32]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

vote: GHS "I know these two people's alignments are the same" seems like an easy thing for scum to claim, especially if they're trying to avoid claiming normal cop.

He also avoided voting for EFHW until Rhand moved his vote and it was clear she was going to be lynched.

I dont understand how "easy" means I'm scum.  and why would i avoid a normal cop more than a mod cop?

I'm not sure why you think it was clear she would be lynched? who wouldve voted for her?

I had already expressed that I would be back to vote before the deadline and was willing to vote EFHW for one. Something makes me think there were at least a couple others too.

[Greathallscout]

@faust you thought this post could mean tracker?

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

[scolapasta]

GHS - what is your order, and what is your order's special power?

I don't think its a good idea for me to say yet.

I mean, I disagree. It would go a long way towards confirming your claim.

I agree.

vote: GreatHallScout

[scolapasta]

[Mysterious cop] investigated faust, got town

Not that I don't like to be ICed, but we don't know that the result on me here was a Cop result. Maybe I just did some amazingly townie-looking targeting tonight. (I did.)

Are you willing to tell more about what you did? I would think we'd being hearing more from those who's orders are already claimed (i.e. not just you).

I don't want to share more at the moment. Eddie knows what I did.

Why tell Eddie? To Tell Gloobie? Do you trust Eddie is working on our side?

[scolapasta]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

vote: GHS "I know these two people's alignments are the same" seems like an easy thing for scum to claim, especially if they're trying to avoid claiming normal cop.

He also avoided voting for EFHW until Rhand moved his vote and it was clear she was going to be lynched.

I dont understand how "easy" means I'm scum.  and why would i avoid a normal cop more than a mod cop?

I'm not sure why you think it was clear she would be lynched? who wouldve voted for her?

I had already expressed that I would be back to vote before the deadline and was willing to vote EFHW for one. Something makes me think there were at least a couple others too.

I was tracking this closely; if I recall correctly it was just you. (publicly; I was also considering it, but really wanted to lynch faust*, so didn't say anything)

* clearly, I've changed my thinking here, at least for now.

[scolapasta]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

i thought getting some info connecting 2 other players would be better and thought scum might alignment invert you more because they would think people would do your plan.

Also- Cop costs 15 and modified cop costs 30. not sure if that supports my idea that at least yams and e thinks getting info from 2 is better.

Wait, did I miss GHS saying he could Cop and chose Modified Cop instead? (modified Cop must be special order power no? Do any of the other claimed cops want to confirm.

[jotheonah]

It's a surge power:

Surge: Cohesion
Orders that can access this Surge: Willshapers and Stonewards
Role Powers:
Bus Driver: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to temporarily switch the molecular structure of 2 players. Any actions that would target the first player will instead target the second, and vice versa.

Modified Cop: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to investigate 2 players. You will be told if they have the same alignment or not.

[scolapasta]

Gloobie, do you have any other info from your source you can tell us? i.e. what is their order, special order power, house, etc? Feels probably safe (?), since we don't know the identity?

[MiX]

Wait, did I miss GHS saying he could Cop and chose Modified Cop instead? (modified Cop must be special order power no? Do any of the other claimed cops want to confirm.

He didn't say that.

It's a surge power:

Surge: Cohesion
Orders that can access this Surge: Willshapers and Stonewards
Role Powers:
Bus Driver: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to temporarily switch the molecular structure of 2 players. Any actions that would target the first player will instead target the second, and vice versa.

Modified Cop: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to investigate 2 players. You will be told if they have the same alignment or not.

You could at least pretend to need to have the effort to read the situation more than scola's specific words.

[jotheonah]

Gloobie, do you have any other info from your source you can tell us? i.e. what is their order, special order power, house, etc? Feels probably safe (?), since we don't know the identity?

How does that information help us?

[jotheonah]

Also it's super cool that faust and Galzria are just voting for me and not making any sort of a case or explaining why. That's just really awesome and I love it, so keep it up guys.

[MiX]

Also it's super cool that faust and Galzria are just voting for me and not making any sort of a case or explaining why. That's just really awesome and I love it, so keep it up guys.

Why shouldn't they be voting for you?

Yes this is a serious question I think you're being today's lynch.

[scolapasta]

It's a surge power:

Surge: Cohesion
Orders that can access this Surge: Willshapers and Stonewards
Role Powers:
Bus Driver: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to temporarily switch the molecular structure of 2 players. Any actions that would target the first player will instead target the second, and vice versa.

Modified Cop: Each night, you may spend 30 spheres of Stormlight to investigate 2 players. You will be told if they have the same alignment or not.

Yeah, missed that it was a surge power of some other order.

[jotheonah]

Also it's super cool that faust and Galzria are just voting for me and not making any sort of a case or explaining why. That's just really awesome and I love it, so keep it up guys.

Why shouldn't they be voting for you?

Yes this is a serious question I think you're being today's lynch.

This coming from the guy with the positive investigative result on him. They shouldn't be voting for me because (A) I'm town (B) I have useful powers and (C) I'm generally a pretty cool guy when you get to know me.

[scolapasta]

Gloobie, do you have any other info from your source you can tell us? i.e. what is their order, special order power, house, etc? Feels probably safe (?), since we don't know the identity?

How does that information help us?

maybe house isn't especially useful. But knowing what orders and powers are in the game are, no? I mean we don't reveal because we don't want anyone to know that we are specifically order X, but if we could let others anonymously know order X is out there. Feels useful to me.

[Glooble]

I'm strongly townreading joth and I don't know where this is coming from.

[scolapasta]

I'm strongly townreading joth and I don't know where this is coming from.

I'm on this boat.

I think we should be focusing on GHS and cube today.

Honorable mentions: Dylan, Swowl, Galz, and maybe Jimmmm

[Dylan32]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

vote: GHS "I know these two people's alignments are the same" seems like an easy thing for scum to claim, especially if they're trying to avoid claiming normal cop.

He also avoided voting for EFHW until Rhand moved his vote and it was clear she was going to be lynched.

I dont understand how "easy" means I'm scum.  and why would i avoid a normal cop more than a mod cop?

I'm not sure why you think it was clear she would be lynched? who wouldve voted for her?

I had already expressed that I would be back to vote before the deadline and was willing to vote EFHW for one. Something makes me think there were at least a couple others too.

I was tracking this closely; if I recall correctly it was just you. (publicly; I was also considering it, but really wanted to lynch faust*, so didn't say anything)

* clearly, I've changed my thinking here, at least for now.

Yeah, went back and looked and prior to GHS's vote you're right. Joth said intent to hammer a bit after GHS voted, which is why I thought there was more than just me willing to vote EFHW but not on wagon.

[faust]

Also it's super cool that faust and Galzria are just voting for me and not making any sort of a case or explaining why. That's just really awesome and I love it, so keep it up guys.

It feels good to be appreciated.

[faust]

@faust you thought this post could mean tracker?

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

Yes.

[faust]

Gloobie, do you have any other info from your source you can tell us? i.e. what is their order, special order power, house, etc? Feels probably safe (?), since we don't know the identity?

How does that information help us?

maybe house isn't especially useful. But knowing what orders and powers are in the game are, no? I mean we don't reveal because we don't want anyone to know that we are specifically order X, but if we could let others anonymously know order X is out there. Feels useful to me.

"I feel it does" is not a very good answer to "how does this help us?"

[faust]

I'm strongly townreading joth and I don't know where this is coming from.

I don't know where your townread is coming from either.

[faust]

I think we should be focusing on GHS and cube today.

The GHS/cube partner theory has a bit of a hole in it: I told hyper I was going to watch him (I lied). If they're partners, I doubt GHS would risk a fakeclaim.

[jotheonah]

I lied

[jotheonah]

We have a rule about all liars... something we're supposed to do to them ... I'm sure I'll think of it.

[MiX]

I lied

Your point?

We have a rule about all liars... something we're supposed to do to them ... I'm sure I'll think of it.

Lynch all fausts? Why do you want to lynch a cop result?

[jotheonah]

I don't. But I am disappointed when town players lie.

[Glooble]

I don't. But I am disappointed when town players lie.

Lying in a private QT with a player you suspect of being scum is a whole different kettle of fish than lying in the main thread.

[Glooble]

I'm strongly townreading joth and I don't know where this is coming from.

I don't know where your townread is coming from either.

Well then it appears we are at an impasse.

[Swowl]

We have a rule about all liars... something we're supposed to do to them ... I'm sure I'll think of it.

I mean, kind of different right?
If anything it is straight out of the Town!faust play book. He essentially role blocked Cube from doing anything bad, and if they were gonna take a town night action, then whatever, they would do it anyways.

[Dylan32]

Yeah I was mildly scumreading faust coming out of D1 pre-flip, but I can't help but believe this is town!faust right now.

[jotheonah]

Working on a re-read wall post.

[scolapasta]

I think we should be focusing on GHS and cube today.

The GHS/cube partner theory has a bit of a hole in it: I told hyper I was going to watch him (I lied). If they're partners, I doubt GHS would risk a fakeclaim.

Doesn't have to be fake, though. In fact, cube could have told GHS to actually mod cop you too, so you'd see GHS target cube, giving him some credence.

[jotheonah]

Ok, more to come,  but here's the most interesting coherent narrative I found in my re-read: Jimmm is very concerned that people are scumreading EFHW but at the same time is trying really hard to look nonchalant about it. Here's a bunch of evidence of that:

Thought so far...

-I'm not sure that I'm capable of forming Day 1 reads in a game this big. It's very difficult to keep track of who's who, especially when most posts happen overnight for me.
-I'm hella confused about the flavour and bringers and breakers and runners and dancers (although to be fair I seem to have somehow missed the details provided in #2 until now).
- I have no opinion about Eddie.
- I expect that the distribution of scum in houses is completely random.
- I expect that scum kills do not cost spheres.
- EFHW's stealing pact suggestion seems reasonable, and I'm inclined to give her a small amount of Town points for it. I think generally speaking (assuming scum kills don't cost spheres), having more spheres around is good for Town. If scum get their kills for free, then whatever they can get from the spheres is probably worth less than the opportunity of Townies to get results and stop kills. So while it doesn't cost spheres to steal, it costs spheres to prevent stealing. However I agree that each house should come to consensus among themselves, as it will be a heck of a lot easier to do with so many fewer voices.
- joth's suggestion of a no-lynch sounds reasonable in theory, but in practice early no-lynches just make the game more difficult. I don't think it was a scummy suggestion.

This post from Jimmmm seems worth surfacing, as it feels like it could be a partner defense -- heavily downplayed and couched in the middle of a post about other things, so as to keep it from being obvious.

Okay new plan. Trying to follow along isn't really working, so I'm going to try to get through a re-read of each player before deadline. We have about 5 days, so that means 3-4 re-reads per day. Starting with Dylan.

Man, I thought I had a shot at being first, and now I'm not even 2nd...  I think my assumption with a game this big is that there is probably 3rd party regardless of setup posts, I mean come on 18 people is massive!

This would be a ballsy post if he's 3rd party. So I'd say he's less likely than average to be.

It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.

Scum would have no problem breaking that pact, and town (in my mind) would be suspicious of the others in their house since there's no reason for there not to be at least 1 scum or non-town person in your house. The trust here could be scummy, rather, it's scummy enough for a D1 Vote: EFHW.

This is a stretchy vote at best. EFHW didn't say, "We should all have a no stealing pact". She was thinking of suggesting it. It seems a reasonable thing to discuss within a house, even if it ends up being a bad idea. I'm mostly willing to chalk this vote up to it being early Day 1 in which it's okay to vote for someone just for disagreeing with them about something.

I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.

What makes you think the factional abilities scum has would cost stormlight the same way the knight radiant powers do? And what "scum things" (emphasis on the plural "things") can scum do in addition to the factional kill and surge powers? Scumslip? Vote: MiX

Ehh. I don't have a problem with this vote, but I don't agree that it was a scumslip, just an assumption about the setup. If MiX had a wrong assumption and had it corrected by being scum, he would be more careful about giving that information away.


Most of the rest of Dylan's early posts are setup-related, discussing possible house plans etc, which I don't think is interesting or alignment-indicative.


As for the whole Dustbringer thing, I don't have a strong opinion on that either way, but I think Dylan comes out of it looking mildy Towny, and mildly Towny is where I would put him.

Wow, Jim's second post of the game -- same thing. Soft little defense of EFHW couched in the middle of a big post.

Yes YES the tiger is out!
EFHW: Lean scum. Mostly gut at this point. I’ve never seen town EFHW, but she feels the same as she did in Ashersky’s game.
faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.
GreatHallScout: Scum. That readlist, man.

How seriously are you calling out a 3-man team here?

Jimmm continues to be concerned with people scumreading EFHW.

faust

There are a lot more note-worthy posts here than for other re-reads. I have them saved if I need to use them down the track, but I'm not going to use them now; I'll just give my overall thoughts.


I'd like to know why faust is scumreading and calling for votes on EFHW. Is that still a thing?

I'm not convinced that the Dustbringer thing was pro-Town, but I don't think it makes faust scummy.

faust's feeling on Galz, cayvie and the GHS wagon are somewhat similar to mine.

I need to better understand the whole Eddie/Dylan thing.


Overall I would put faust as moderately Towny. I'm not sure I would ever fully trust him because I think he's more than capable of seeming very Towny as scum, but I'm not interesting in lynching him Today.

And again. Ok, maybe Jim defends EFHW too much to be her partner. BUT MAYBE NOT. After all those soft sly defenses, his dedicated re-read of EFHW is, surprisingly, expressing a scum read.

EFHW

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

Fine and null early vote.

And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea.  It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.

ppe several

On the other hand, this is a townslip.

Vote: cayvie

Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.

Are you saying that Dylan is scummy for this, or just that it's not a Townslip?

vote: hypercube

Was this just for agreeing with faust's Dustbringer plan?

Have we heard from Eddie about Dylan's report on their QT? I'd like to hear what he has to say about it.

I'm very confused about Dylan saying he didn't full claim to Eddie. What is left to claim? Was there more Eddie wanted included?

I'm still trying to understand the whole Eddie thing. Did either one of them say that Dylan part-claimed? Did Dylan house-claim at some point? I don't think Dylan saying he didn't full-claim implies that he part-claimed; I take it to mean that he didn't claim. My understanding is that full-claiming to Eddie is in official action one must choose to take, whether or not Eddie already knows the details of that player's claim?

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

Scumslip here? Or 3rd party slip? Knowing someone's order does not tell you the special power that goes with it.

Regarding this and Didds' post, is the suggestion that House and Order is not a full-claim unless it also includes what that Order's unique power is, or that because some player/s claim to have one or more extra abilities as Town therefore all Town must? I'm not sure the first is much more than semantics, and the second seems to be a huge assumption and requires something close to a massclaim to verify. I guess the second is moot now since the IC has provided a counter-example.

Why wouldn't a town!neighbor tell us the whole story of what Eddie wanted?

What are you trying to gain from this? Surely if Town neighbours are keeping quiet it's because they have a reason to. Do you think any scum among them would be caught out if they had to open up about it (genuine question)? I doubt that any scum not aligned with Eddie (whether or not he's 3rd party) have given anything away to him they didn't want to.

vote: MiX.

Ppe: Still want to vote MiX.

Why? For disagreeing that Rhand scumslipped? For not revealing more about the Eddie business?

vote: Didds. Possible third party slip and over-emphasis on being pro-town. Why should Eddie be pro-town if he is a third party? We haven't heard any confirmation that he changed alignment.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the Didds scumslip was disproved by Glooble (#835). Did you miss that or was the scumslip about something else?

With the pro-Town thing, are you talking about #954? Is there a reason why it's scummy, or is this just a vote to express your disagreement? Why in particular would scum complain about a 3rd party not being pro-Town?


So... some scummy things here. Scumpoints for votes on hypercube and MiX without explanation. More for seemingly being fixed on scumslips and in particular 3rd party slips (with Eddie already being 3rd party, both Didds and Rhand have been accused of 3rd party slipping - that's a lot of parties!), and for using it as a reason to vote for Didds even after it was disproved by the IC. Overall I'm inclined to put her down as mild-moderate scum.

I hope this doesn't invalidate all the work I've done on this. I will say at this point it seems like EFHW is relatively "safe". But still, seems weird to be so paranoid about her lynch and then suddenly bus. Although, worth noting, this scum read is not paired with a vote. The vote comes later and it's for Galz:

9/16 rereads (not counting Glooble). Here's my summary so far:

Moderate Town
faust

Mild Town
Dylan

Null
GHS

Mild scum
LaLight
joth
Eddie
chairs

Mild-Moderate scum
EFHW

Moderate scum
Galz


It occurs to me that this is weighted towards mild scum.

It's becoming apparent that I'm not going to finish before deadline without it becoming a major case of going through the motions. I'll check the votecount tomorrow and prioritise whoever seems viable. For now, Vote: Galz.

Here's his EFHW vote:

Sure, looks like this is far more likely than Galz. Vote: EFHW (L-5)

He is quick to express willingness to switch back:

Vote: Galzria

Competing wagons!

Not really, I'm off it now so it's you and Didds. Would move back if it got more support though.

Ok, now this is really interesting. Jimm has previously said he's probably done with his re-reads. But look, he found time to do a hypercube re-read just as a viable counterwagon on hypercube was forming. If only it ended with a vote.

hypercube

None of his really early game particularly interest me; talk about cults and alignment changes and houses. Gives a few stances on people which is fine and good.

I don't want to comment on things related to Eddie before Eddie does, but rereading the part of the game where Dylan claimed made him look a lot worse than I remembered.

He seems uninterested in the benefits of identifying a potential scum Dustbringer or inhibiting their ability to use their powers, like here:

As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.

I don't think this point is saying anything other than finding someone scummy for disagreeing about something.

I think that if a town!Dustbringer claimed here they would be more likely to want to force a claim from any other Dustbringers. They'd understand that the Dustbringer powers are pretty scum-sided and that since they're town an other Dustbringer is more likely to be scum.

People have very different ideas about what claiming plans should happen; this is far more of an individual thing than it is an alignment tell. And the second part is either a probability fallacy or an unfounded assumption about how roles/alignments were distributed.

Here he says he didn't considered the possibility of a scum Dustbringer at all:

Ooh, good point. Yeah, I think it would work that way. However, this is assuming that scum could roll this order. A scum with extra vig power does seem maybe unbalanced. And looking back, I don't see anything that says whether the alignment of individuals in a given order is random or assigned or random in limited fashion, only that the numbers in each are random.

He explains this oversight with a misunderstanding of the setup, which doesn't say that the numbers are random, just that they aren't uniform across the orders. It's certainly possible for someone to misread the setup, but less likely that they'd misread it again after going back to correct themself.

I don't think this was an oversight or a misreading. I think "Can scum be Vigs?" is a very reasonable question to ponder, and he checked the setup to see if there was anything to indicate they couldn't and found nothing.

I also don't think that there was a pressing force for him to claim when he did; less than half of everyone had claimed at that point. If he had serious objections to claiming he had time to bring them up and be convinced that a scum Dustbringer could exist. I think it's more likely that he's scum and claimed in hopes that that would make him look towny.

vote: Dylan

Well sure, there was no one saying "Dylan it's your turn to claim", but if the number of claimers was approaching half of the players, then the claiming is well and truly happening.

Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.

Questions != scumread. cayvie's questions (that I found): "hey Dylan, what's this?", "why is pushing back on this impossible?" (etc, to Galz), "was [message] the message you had the mods post... could you have made the mods post [anything you wanted]?". She also mentioned that scum can work together to claim Dustbringer. The only question I'm seeing that could be more than just information-seeking is the one to Galz, and well at least two people agreed that it was too late to prevent the claiming. So I'm not sure what would lead you to believe that cayvie should have scumread Dylan for this.

So... I don't really agree with any of this post.

Do you think he's not a Dustbringer?

If he's scum it's possible he's not a Dustbringer and someone else on the scum team is. That's less likely than him just being a scum Dustbringer though.

The first sentence seems to be a hugely unlikely conspiracy theory. If Dylan flips scum non-Dustbringer then we know one of his teammates is one. If someone else flips scum Dustbringer then we can ask Dylan to re-prove his reporter ability. Scum don't tell lies that can easily be found out just for the sake of it. Of course scum Dustbringer is more likely, but that just makes the claim NAI.


So, I disagree with a lot of hypercube's reasons for voting, but how much that correlates to scumminess I'm still trying to figure out. Seems like a fine lynch.

And then he sort of peaces out and doesn't come back before deadline. So, Jimmmm's play is very scummy but he ultimately ends up on the EFHW wagon and doesn't participate in either of the counterwagons (thought he seems to set himself up to). I think if Jim is scum, he might be scum that missed the deadline by accident, or showed up before deadline, saw that there was nothing he could do without coming off super scummy, and then left. I do think he's probably the scummiest person on the EFHW wagon by a mile.

[jotheonah]

The second scummiest person on the wagon is Rhand.

vote MiX

Serious vote. Will explain tomorrow when I’m sober.
1:20 am now and preeettty drunk

...much later...

On a sidenote: I have no idea why my drunken ass thought MiX was scum yesterday.

Promising to do something related to scumhunting and then not following up on that promise is a major scumtell for me, so it could be for Rhand too. The reason is that scumhunting when you're scum is really hard and sometimes you can get points just by saying you're gonna do it.

Will catch up later today and then do a reread today/tomorrow.

Shows up 8 hours before deadline, posts some stuff that isn't necessarily interesting, votes Hypercube. Never does the re-read.

Later on:

vote: faust

Gonna go against my gut here. The way he handled me and the “don’t kill the watchers” thing go against him, and meta-wise there’s lots of you that are voting him that actually know his scum range. I hope it’s right.

This really feels like how scum votes for town to try to save a partner. But then, not too long after:

Meh I really think it’s cube, not faust.

vote: EFHW

That vote just doesn't make sense to me coming from scum. I was already to build a Rhand case based on the rest of the day, the broken promises, and the general lack of meaningful content, but idk. I can't fathom this bus, mainly based on the timing of it. The faust wagon was like, almost there and he really derailed it. Unlike Jim's disappearance, which was a passive enablement of the EFHW lynch, this was a very active one.

[jotheonah]

Here's some observations about Dylan and Galz, scummiest people off the wagon (though Swowl doesn't look particulary great either. There's a miscellaneous MiX observation at the bottom.

Scum would have no problem breaking that pact, and town (in my mind) would be suspicious of the others in their house since there's no reason for there not to be at least 1 scum or non-town person in your house. The trust here could be scummy, rather, it's scummy enough for a D1 Vote: EFHW.

ppe 3

Dylan is the first one to vote EFHW, and does it in a way that feels to me like it could be a soft, early bus. "scummy enough for a D1" almost sets him up to move his vote later. Also his day 1 is very setup talk heavy.

I want to vote MiX, but I’m not going to.

Instead, vote: Joth.

Chairs votes are bad votes.

This is a pretty weak vote on me that happens at a time when the (first) EFHW wagon is just starting to get big enough to be scary. Some scum points.

hey GreatHallScout and Rhand: if you want to be kind, put something ctrl+f-able in your sig or profile comment so i can isolate your posts

i think that EFHW/Dylan32 exchange i quoted a bit up the page sounds like partners distancing early. or maybe Dylan just stretching for reads. i was gonna wait for his answer to my question to decide whether to vote but patience has never been my strength

vote: Dylan32

Back to Dylan, I will point out that conf!town cayvie read that post the same way I did.


Not super easy to do with quotes, but there's the whole thing with Dylan and Uncle where Dylan says Uncle tried to get him to full claim so Uncle could join Dylan's team and Dylan said no and several people including faust and MiX found Dylan scummy for that. Just worth mentioning to remind people that happened.


This post by Galz is scummy and scummy in its timing:

vote: Cube

It’s not impossible that his dying cost Town 2 PR’s, but it feels more balanced that he and his squire would be of opposing alignment. Sadly I think it makes more sense for him to be Town & his Squire to be scum (disincentivizing scum from killing him at night), but as we don’t know the identity of his Squire... And it certainly works with him as scum and his squire as Town too - as a way to balance a potential scum death, although there would be nothing to hurt scum in killing his Squire in this situation. I very, very much doubt they’re both scum.

Vote: EFHW

I don't see how EFHW's vote is scummy. Wrong, yes, but scummy? I don't get it.

What is it about her that you’ve found towny?

To be honest, I don't remember. I don't see anything that's ringing off my EFHW-is-scum bells, and thus she's town as I'm usually good at seeing scum!EFHW.

MiX also defends EFHW, worth noting.

[jotheonah]

I guess vote: Jimmmmm

[MiX]

I think Jimmmmm is town. Not only was he defending EFHW as much as me (being third-party means I can just townread people! What a mistake.) he's an extra person pushing for EFHW.

Rhand's vote was L-2, at a point where no one else could really be lynched, right? So I can't see how you're getting a read off that.

Dylan still looks scummy from distancing so much from EFHW, I would lynch but I wouldn't like to just based on his interactions with her.

I completely agree with Galzria, his votes and timing of votes are very scummy.

I was definitely trying to buddy EFHW, even if it was on accident. I didn't want to bother rereading people so I just got very safe reads. How would I know EFHW would be the D1 lynch lol.

I guess vote: Jimmmmm

I disagree with this vote.


This is me trying to help town by the way.

[Uncleeurope]

”I think Jimmm is scummy, too.”

[chairs]

vote: jimmmmm Makes sense to me

[Uncleeurope]

vote: jimmmmm Makes sense to me

Check your QT.

[LaLight]

Still waiting to find out why LaLight is town? (also, are you willing to reveal why I am town?)

Gloobie will you confirm if your source is a cop?

I won't reveal why you're town, you will have to believe me

[Greathallscout]

I think we should be focusing on GHS and cube today.

The GHS/cube partner theory has a bit of a hole in it: I told hyper I was going to watch him (I lied). If they're partners, I doubt GHS would risk a fakeclaim.

so why do you want me to tell everyone my orders power? If I'm town then great. If i'm scum, then hyper is town anyway....

[faust]

I think we should be focusing on GHS and cube today.

The GHS/cube partner theory has a bit of a hole in it: I told hyper I was going to watch him (I lied). If they're partners, I doubt GHS would risk a fakeclaim.

so why do you want me to tell everyone my orders power? If I'm town then great. If i'm scum, then hyper is town anyway....

If I tell you, it won't be effective.

[Rhand]

Caught up.
I disprove of a Jimmmm wagon. That case from Joth has loads of NAI stuff in there.
I think Joth is mafia. He is discrediting players that are out of the POE.
I also still think GHS is mafia.

Cube is not lying about their result by the way. I roleblocked him and the watch result he claimed matches with what the mod told me a roleblocked watcher would get.
@Hypercube: why watch Eddie? I don’t see the point in using a watch shot on a claimed 3P.

Vote: GHS
Because I think he’s mafia and for Cayvie’s legacy.

[faust]

Cube is not lying about their result by the way. I roleblocked him and the watch result he claimed matches with what the mod told me a roleblocked watcher would get.

Um why on earth would you do that

[Rhand]

Cube is not lying about their result by the way. I roleblocked him and the watch result he claimed matches with what the mod told me a roleblocked watcher would get.

Um why on earth would you do that

I thought he was mafia. And the rolestopper ability gives an un-watchable, un-docable kill.

[faust]

Cube is not lying about their result by the way. I roleblocked him and the watch result he claimed matches with what the mod told me a roleblocked watcher would get.

Um why on earth would you do that

I thought he was mafia. And the rolestopper ability gives an un-watchable, un-docable kill.

I suppose, but he was forced to share Watcher results with me which could have given us more info.

[Rhand]

Cube is not lying about their result by the way. I roleblocked him and the watch result he claimed matches with what the mod told me a roleblocked watcher would get.

Um why on earth would you do that

I thought he was mafia. And the rolestopper ability gives an un-watchable, un-docable kill.

I suppose, but he was forced to share Watcher results with me which could have given us more info.

True. But he could have lied. Who the hell watches eddie by the way? What is your take on that?

[faust]

I thought hyper was scum too, but the result from GHS threw me. Given that I don't think he's the best lynch today.

[Jimmmmm]

This post from Jimmmm seems worth surfacing, as it feels like it could be a partner defense -- heavily downplayed and couched in the middle of a post about other things, so as to keep it from being obvious.

Wow, Jim's second post of the game -- same thing. Soft little defense of EFHW couched in the middle of a big post.

Attacking a vote != defending a player. Both of these points are about the stealing/no-stealing plans, which read genuine to me. I only mentioned it a second time because I was re-reading Dylan and found his vote on EFHW to be noteworthy.

How seriously are you calling out a 3-man team here?

Jimmm continues to be concerned with people scumreading EFHW.

cayvie seemed to be calling out a 3-person scum team on Day 1. I wanted to know if she wanted this theory to be taken seriously. This was not a defense of any of the 3.

I'd like to know why faust is scumreading and calling for votes on EFHW. Is that still a thing?

And again. Ok, maybe Jim defends EFHW too much to be her partner. BUT MAYBE NOT. After all those soft sly defenses, his dedicated re-read of EFHW is, surprisingly, expressing a scum read.

Again, not a defense. I re-read faust and one of the things I noticed was an unexplained vote/scumread on EFHW. Finding out why may have helped me get a read on both players.

I hope this doesn't invalidate all the work I've done on this. I will say at this point it seems like EFHW is relatively "safe". But still, seems weird to be so paranoid about her lynch and then suddenly bus. Although, worth noting, this scum read is not paired with a vote. The vote comes later and it's for Galz:

I had/have very little idea of what votes or stances would be considered "safe". Also, none of my re-reads came with votes. When I posted my summary I had Galz as my top suspect and EFHW at second so naturally I voted for Galz, but was quite happy to vote for EFHW when her wagon seemed more viable.

He is quick to express willingness to switch back:

It shouldn't be surprising that I was willing to lynch either of my top two suspects.

Ok, now this is really interesting. Jimm has previously said he's probably done with his re-reads.

This is false; I never said that. If you're referring to "It's becoming apparent that I'm not going to finish before deadline without it becoming a major case of going through the motions.", I had 7 re-reads to go and this was stating that I was not going to do all 7. If you're referring to "I'll check the votecount tomorrow and prioritise whoever seems viable.", I was saying that I would try to do re-reads on the viable wagons so that I could help with the lynch. If you're referring to "I'll need to park my vote before bed.", I indicated in that post that I was going to re-read hyper before then.

But look, he found time to do a hypercube re-read just as a viable counterwagon on hypercube was forming. If only it ended with a vote.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Why would you wish I had moved off the EFHW wagon? If I wanted to try to save her by doing so I could have.

And then he sort of peaces out and doesn't come back before deadline.

Deadline was 5am for me. I very clearly said I was unlikely to be around. At 10pm I said that I would be around for about another hour if I was needed to change my vote. At 11:30ish I checked the game on my phone in bed and saw EFHW say that her and hyper both had 6 votes, and that did not seem like a reason to switch to hyper.

So, Jimmmm's play is very scummy but he ultimately ends up on the EFHW wagon and doesn't participate in either of the counterwagons (thought he seems to set himself up to). I think if Jim is scum, he might be scum that missed the deadline by accident, or showed up before deadline, saw that there was nothing he could do without coming off super scummy, and then left.

This is a huge misrepresentation. Either you completely missed the below paragraph, or you've realised that your narrative doesn't make sense and tried to make it work anyway.

I haven't caught up on today's posts yet, but at this stage I'd join the EFHW wagon, and also the chairs one in order to get a lynch. Haven't re-read hypercube yet. Unfortunately deadline is at 5am Saturday morning for me, so I'm not likely to be around for any kind of last minute shuffling; I'll need to park my vote before bed.

[hypercube]

@Hypercube: why watch Eddie? I don’t see the point in using a watch shot on a claimed 3P.

As long as Glooble trusts Eddie to communicate he seems like an important town asset to me. I don't think explaining my thought process in public beyond that is a good idea.

[hypercube]

Sorry my internet stinks right now because i just moved.

I'd really like these people who think that im scummy to say why.

AND- Faust and Hypercube have the same allignment. so if glooble's informant didnt lie- then I guess they are are both town without inverters and bus drivers.

Unsure why a person with the modified cop ability wouldn't have targeted me. You know, to turn it into a regular cop ability?

vote: GHS "I know these two people's alignments are the same" seems like an easy thing for scum to claim, especially if they're trying to avoid claiming normal cop.

He also avoided voting for EFHW until Rhand moved his vote and it was clear she was going to be lynched.

I dont understand how "easy" means I'm scum.  and why would i avoid a normal cop more than a mod cop?

I'm not sure why you think it was clear she would be lynched? who wouldve voted for her?

If you're scum and claim Cop, you either have to start reporting people's true alignments (giving town lots of information), or risk that your lies will be discovered when the first person you lied about flips. A Modified Cop can get away with lying for a lot longer.

Unless I missed it you didn't vote for EFHW until it after it was clear she was the only lynch that would go through, at which point basically anyone would vote for her.

[MiX]

Vote: joth

[hypercube]

joth's case on Jimmmmm isn't amazing, but being extra prickly about people accusing you of defending scum, and about people not reading your posts carefully enough are pretty significant scumtells to me.

[Glooble]

Could I please get a vote count?

Didds, would I be right if I guessed that you know who my mysterious informant is?

[Jimmmmm]

joth's case on Jimmmmm isn't amazing, but being extra prickly about people accusing you of defending scum, and about people not reading your posts carefully enough are pretty significant scumtells to me.

Where was I extra prickly?

[hypercube]

joth's case on Jimmmmm isn't amazing, but being extra prickly about people accusing you of defending scum, and about people not reading your posts carefully enough are pretty significant scumtells to me.

Where was I extra prickly?

You're insistent that most things that joth pointed out as defences aren't defences, which is the scum way to rationalize it (especially if they weren't intended as such). A town player would be able to admit that they were defending their townreads to some extent, and using those townreads to help figure out the game.

Then, you point out that joth missed your post where you explain you'd be asleep by deadline. Jumping to "this is a huge misrepresentation" instead of "this is a mistake you made" is certainly something I'd be more likely to do as scum (that's how Didds caught me in M119).

[MiX]

Could I please get a vote count?

Didds, would I be right if I guessed that you know who my mysterious informant is?

If I were scum, I would've known who the mysterious informant is based on this question.

[Jimmmmm]

joth's case on Jimmmmm isn't amazing, but being extra prickly about people accusing you of defending scum, and about people not reading your posts carefully enough are pretty significant scumtells to me.

Where was I extra prickly?

You're insistent that most things that joth pointed out as defences aren't defences, which is the scum way to rationalize it (especially if they weren't intended as such). A town player would be able to admit that they were defending their townreads to some extent, and using those townreads to help figure out the game.

A Town player would admit they were defending their Townreads if that's what they were doing. At which points do you believe it was my intent to defend her?

Then, you point out that joth missed your post where you explain you'd be asleep by deadline. Jumping to "this is a huge misrepresentation" instead of "this is a mistake you made" is certainly something I'd be more likely to do as scum (that's how Didds caught me in M119).

I maintain that I was misrepresented. Actually I think most or all of the points misrepresented me pretty badly, to an extent that I'm not sure scum would go, at least intentionally.

[hypercube]

Thoughts from rereading cayvie:

Seems like you're playing to survive

Mix I feel like you're planning to get wagoned today, survive the wagon, and then not get nightkilled because you feel you've been the right amount of obvscum.

She calls out MiX for self-preservation early.

i dont think skydancers should claim bc we dont want to out our watchers. i dont think edgedancers should claim bc we don't want to out our doctors.

Possibly this was a skybreaker slip that scum picked up on? I could see them being afraid of that role. As noted before she questions Dylan on his claim a fair amount.

im wondering what the key difference between EFHW's and chairs's reactions is here? why is one "exactly the reaction scum would have" and the other doesn't ping your radar?

Pushes joth a bit here.

mmm vote: GreatHallScout

this feels like a faked readlist

Gets the GHS wagon rolling here.

Players are ordered within tiers.

Strong scumreads on EFHW, faust, and GHS.

But right now, I think we should just Lynch Eddie. Don't want a traitor joining scum. Feels like we'll have to lunch him eventually anyway so why not now?

She doesn't trust Eddie and seems convinced he's a survivor at best or traitor at worst.

After that she works hard to push the GHS wagon and then switches to EFHW. I'm pretty happy with my GHS vote after all this, it certainly seems like a scumteam with him on it could have killed her over her reads.

PPE Jimmmmm, I need to go to lunch now, I'll get back to you after.

[MiX]

I would've definitely NKd cayvie if I could. Correctly calling me a survivor is a towntell, I'm sad my biggest townread died. I couldn't say I was reading her as town before the third-party claim, but well that doesn't matter anymore.

She was also really against EFHW to the point where I think that alone could've killed her. I don't think Hall is scum based on NK analysis.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didd's, would I be right if I guessed that you know who my mysterious informant is?

Alas, no

[Jimmmmm]

scolapasta

talk to me, scola: gun to head, who are your top ~4 picks for mafia?

Well, clearly MiX. Possibly also faust and GHS? I don't know, even with all the chatter, I have yet to feel super strong on D1.

(I am concerned about misreading both MiX and faust, as I know their styles of play do lead to misreads)

I'm not super interested in most of scola's early posts about MiX (especially after the 3rd-party claim), and related setup discussions. I do think it's noteworthy that despite admitting that these are not super strong reads, he sticks with them for a relatively long time, and through catching up and increasing his activity.

OK, moving on, as we are 2+ hours from DL.

I had been leaning EFHW vs cube on the wagons (and may still get there), but I do like the idea of

vote: faust

So will second that one and see if others join in. If it doesn't build enough within the hour, will revisit my vote. I should be around for DL, assuming no work thing comes up.

Indicates leaning EFHW over cube but votes faust.

Re: GHS - I could get on board, but I don't think that builds like faust could.

Can we get 5 more for faust? Is anyone currently on EFHW willing to consider faust? If not, we'd need all 5 others:

Dylan
Rhand
joth
GHS
Gloobie

Campaigning for lynching faust over EFHW.

I’m just gonna say it because I keep talking around it and for mafia it’s probably obvious by now.

I am a windrunner. I confirm the bodyguard.
That means 3 watcher / roleblock combo’s in town.
And rolestopper is a mafia ability.

If there are in fact 3 windrunners, at least one has to be scum, no?

Though one or more of the windrunners may be lying? I don't see that though, since if one of cube/faust is twon that doesn't work. This could be a confirmation lie, but also seems risky.

i.e. I'm believing there are 3 and feeling pretty good about my faust vote.

I don't like these kinds of assumptions. Town has no reason to make them but they can be handy for scum, say if they have no Windrunners.

scolacounta 1.1:

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (21): Rhand, jotheonah
EFHW ( 8 ): faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, chairs, hypercube, MiX {L-2}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout
faust (56): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl, joth

Not Voting (1): Glooble


Stated willingness:
faust (3): MiX, Gloobie, Dylan
EFHW (1): Dylan

so faust and EFHW both effectively al L-1

Despite claiming willingness to lynch EFHW both before and after this, does not add himself to the "willing to lynch EFHW" category. The purpose of this post seems to be simply to push the viability of a faust lynch.

So I am hopeful EFHW is scum. She was on my radar, I just didn't think it was as strong a vote as faust, because I do thinkit's likely at least one of the Windrunnners is scum (I have not played enough games with this group to know how much this would or would not be randomized), because Windrunners have good scum powers. With that I thought the squire was a better choice than the others.

Oh man, this post. Saying "I am hopeful EFHW is scum. She was on my radar" post-hammer sets off all kinds of alarm bells.

The anti-conspiracy-theory side of me suggests that this is too obvious, but if you're looking for someone who tried to stop the EFHW lynch while acting like they were okay with it, surely scola is the number one contender.

hey guys, if no one redirected me, scola is town. not claiming anything else.

Can confirm, am town. Eddie if you want to convey anything from me to Gloobie, let me know.

So obviously this is a spanner in the works for where this re-read is clearly heading. I'll re-read LL next to help figure out what I think of this.

Eddie, do you believe that I'm town? If so want to have a neighborhood with me and share any goodies?

Refusing to listen? I'm not sure I got that, I just wondered if you were yet convinced I was town, based on your reads, that LaLight's claim I am town.

I do think if we could figure out some other pseudo-ICs and connect them to Gloobie, so he can have a neighborhood (via eddie, e.g.) with them that would be good for town.

If you don't believe me yet, no worries.

Why so keen to be a pseudo-IC?

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

Got it. This pleases me. I'm willing to accept that faust is town.

so cube > rhand > faust

Still waiting to find out why LaLight is town? (also, are you willing to reveal why I am town?)

Gloobie will you confirm if your source is a cop?

I don't like the continued assumption of how alignments and roles are distributed, nor the pushing the IC for information.

GHS - what is your order, and what is your order's special power?

I don't think its a good idea for me to say yet.

I mean, I disagree. It would go a long way towards confirming your claim.

I agree.

vote: GreatHallScout

I'm strongly townreading joth and I don't know where this is coming from.

I'm on this boat.

I think we should be focusing on GHS and cube today.

Honorable mentions: Dylan, Swowl, Galz, and maybe Jimmmm

As mentioned earlier, scola has stuck with a scumread on GHS for a long time without any explanation of it that I've seen.


So, in conclusion. Solid scumpoints for trying to prevent the EFHW lynch while stating willingness to lynch her. Scumpoints for the Windrunner assumption, and for pushing for more information from the IC. Also for sticking with early reads for so long, particularly the GHS (the point being that it wasn't based on much initially because it was early in scola's posts, and the fact that it hasn't changed or developed makes it look like a token read).

Now this would lead to a moderate-high scum read, but as I said the claimed LL result is a pretty major consideration, so I'll hold off on a final conclusion here until I've re-read him.

[Glooble]

Vote: Didds

Time for me to claim some stuff I guess.

Someone gave me an Alterter, which tells me everyone who targeted me that night.

I had Uncle talk to those people. Didds claimed she didn’t target me.

Need Didds to explain this situation.

[faust]

Let's take a look at joth, shall we? Might as well join in on the wallposts.

First, look at the early interaction with EFHW.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

I don't know if we are still in RVS, but I have to

vote: Eddie

for getting a  Christmas carol stuck in my head.

EFHW places a non-RVS vote on joth and then moves away by pretending to RVS. I call that scummy.  Scum is more likely to vote for partners in the early game as well.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

I may be reaching here, but joth seems to feel a need to point out EFHW's vote on him without giving a read.

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

There it is. Took long enough. Vote: chairs

joth's "no lynch bait" post has a very "gotcha" kind of feel to it, and does not look like proper scumhunting.

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

It would be a town tell if jtoh were misreading Glooble, so I guess it's a slight scumtell for him to read him correctly.

ok, that was a kneejerk before having caught up on the thread. now that I am caught up I am seeing that an EFHW vote would be more useful from me. I have to admit I'm not super-feeling that case. Anyone want to try and convince me real quick?

This sounds like's he's trying to get someone to post a case that he can disagree with.

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This comes immediately afterwards. He says that he's not feeling the EFHW wagon, but at the same time does not have a preference? Doesn't quite seem genuine.

And of course he tries to push both the hypercube and the faust counterwagons to EFHW.

Finally, today he has committed his "starting to do wallposts when under pressure" scumtell.

[faust]

@Glooble: Would your alerter have worked if you were roleblocked?

[faust]

I'm trying hard to contain my other thoughts on the Didds situation until she shows up.

[Glooble]

@Glooble: Would your alerter have worked if you were roleblocked?

I don’t know, the pm about the Alerter contained very little information other than the names of the people who targeted me.

[Glooble]

I have more to claim about last night but I need Didds' answer first.

[WestCoastDidds]

I did not target you.

I targeted MiX with two actions. At least one of my actions went through because the result on him “non-town” couldn’t have been you. Presumably I’d be on Rhand’s list of people who targeted MiX?

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

[faust]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have.

I think you might want to give this another shot

[WestCoastDidds]

I was entirely forthcoming with Eddie and with you. I even asked to talk to Eddie first thing to share the MiX result with him. No way I target you and don’t say anything about it.

[faust]

What is the Lightweavers order's special power?

[Glooble]

Ok, sharing time.

The Alerter told me three people targeted me. The same night, a QT opened up with Mystery Cop. Mystery Cop claimed to have given me the alerter, but said they were not responsible for the QT. However, they did say one of the other items they could give would have that effect. They also told me about the cop result on faust.

I had Eddie ask the other two people who targeted me (according to the Alerter) who they targeted. One of them claimed to have targeted me with a beneficial effect (a specific one, but one which I have no way of verifying, but not the QT.) The other one was Didds.

So was I redirected? Is MC scum trying to frame Didds in collaboration with their redirector buddy? Did the other person who targeted me also open the QT but decide not to share that information for whatever reason? Should I reveal the names of the two people in question?

[Glooble]

And who the heck opened up that QT?

[jotheonah]

Finally, today he has committed his "starting to do wallposts when under pressure" scumtell.

I am too lazy to find it, but in a recent game MiX referred to this very thing as a towntell. I was scum that game, of course. It's actually just a joth tell. Turns out, no matter what your alignment, the best way to get out from under pressure is to focus more on presenting a compelling alternative and less on defensiveness. I would honestly encourage everyone to adopt that strtategy in every game as every alignment.

@Jim I didn't miss your going to bed post and I don't think I misrepresented it. I acknowledged that you ending the day with your vote on EFHW was points against you being her partner. But I felt that the rest of your posts fit my narrative well enough that it was still worth a vote. Then I explained that perhaps the reason for parking your vote is that you meant to come back and switch it but didn't, either because you were asleep (as you said deadline timing was bad for you) or because at the time you checked in you calculated that maintaining the bus was the better cost-benefit analysis.

SOrry if I didn't explain that well, I was trying to post coherent thoughts at the end of a long day and a 51-page re-read.

PPE 3

[jotheonah]

faust, what do you think of Rhand, Galz, and Dylan. I'm sorry you don't like my Jim case; I thought it was elegant.

[LaLight]

Possibilities:

-Both are town, no alignment inverters
-Both are scum, both got alignment inverted
-One is town and one is scum, one got alignment inverted
-GHS/Mysterious cop is scum, in which case we know nothing

I like how you list two options where one of 2 players is scum, but the latter qualifies as "we know nothing" and the former doesn't.

Bullet point four was just sort of a reminder/footnote that just because someone has claimed a result doesn't mean we can trust them. I suppose I could expand to include more options:

-GHS is lying but MC isn't, in which case faust is town but hyper could be either alignment
-MC is lying but GHS isn't, in which case faust is scum and so is hyper (barring inversions)
-Both are lying, in which case we really don't know anything (except that GHS and MC are probably not town-aligned)

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

[WestCoastDidds]

And who the heck opened up that QT?

One of the things inventors can give is a QT to two people, but they are not part of it.

[WestCoastDidds]

What is the Lightweavers order's special power?

Hiding

[jotheonah]

This game is just getting juicy but I have a really important presentation I have to prepare for at work today so I think I have to try to pry myself away. I'll check in at lunch and again at the end of the work day.

[WestCoastDidds]

The Alerter told me three people targeted me. The same night, a QT opened up with Mystery Cop. Mystery Cop claimed to have given me the alerter, but said they were not responsible for the QT. However, they did say one of the other items they could give would have that effect. They also told me about the cop result on faust.

I had Eddie ask the other two people who targeted me (according to the Alerter) who they targeted. One of them claimed to have targeted me with a beneficial effect (a specific one, but one which I have no way of verifying, but not the QT.) The other one was Didds.

So was I redirected? Is MC scum trying to frame Didds in collaboration with their redirector buddy? Did the other person who targeted me also open the QT but decide not to share that information for whatever reason? Should I reveal the names of the two people in question?

Inventors can't do more than one invention at a time.  So, whomever gave you the alerter did not open the QT.

I don't see how you being redirected would have created a result from me on you. I think it was that I was redirected.  Good news...if you were shot last night, you won't die until tomorrow.

I'm not sure that the MC would have to be trying to frame me in consultation with anyone, although that is possible.  After all, nothing bad happened to you. Seems more likely it would be a random redirection.

At this point, I am not sure why keep their names private is beneficial, but that could just be me feeling vulnerable that you needed to know my powers.

[Glooble]

The Alerter told me three people targeted me. The same night, a QT opened up with Mystery Cop. Mystery Cop claimed to have given me the alerter, but said they were not responsible for the QT. However, they did say one of the other items they could give would have that effect. They also told me about the cop result on faust.

I had Eddie ask the other two people who targeted me (according to the Alerter) who they targeted. One of them claimed to have targeted me with a beneficial effect (a specific one, but one which I have no way of verifying, but not the QT.) The other one was Didds.

So was I redirected? Is MC scum trying to frame Didds in collaboration with their redirector buddy? Did the other person who targeted me also open the QT but decide not to share that information for whatever reason? Should I reveal the names of the two people in question?

Inventors can't do more than one invention at a time.  So, whomever gave you the alerter did not open the QT.

I don't see how you being redirected would have created a result from me on you. I think it was that I was redirected.  Good news...if you were shot last night, you won't die until tomorrow.

I'm not sure that the MC would have to be trying to frame me in consultation with anyone, although that is possible.  After all, nothing bad happened to you. Seems more likely it would be a random redirection.

At this point, I am not sure why keep their names private is beneficial, but that could just be me feeling vulnerable that you needed to know my powers.

MC gives me alerter. Another scum redirects you to me. They are hoping I will interrogate you, find this discrepancy, and decide to convict you?

Seems like a really risky plan for scum to use a bunch of stormlight on, especially if they didn't know about the QT.

[faust]

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

Errm... I'm confused. Weren't you supposed to also have a result on scola?

[Glooble]

Faust, do you think I should publicly reveal the other two people?

[faust]

Faust, do you think I should publicly reveal the other two people?

Uh give me a second to wrap my head around this.

[faust]

Glooble: Did the Alerter give you the name of the Mystery Cop (as clearly they'd have targeted you)?

[Glooble]

Glooble: Did the Alerter give you the name of the Mystery Cop (as clearly they'd have targeted you)?

Yes.

[faust]

Let's gather everything up.

Copping
chairs targets MiX -> non-town.
GHS targets faust + hypercube -> same alignment
Mystery Cop targets faust -> town
Didds targets MiX -> non-town

Inventions
Didds gives painrial to MiX
Someone gives Alerter to Glooble

Inventions or Neighborizing?
Someone gives QT to Glooble/Mystery Cop

Watching and Alerter
faust targets someone, result does not help here.
Rhand targets MiX successfully (saw chairs + others)
hypercube targets Eddie and is blocked
LaLight targets hypercube successfully (saw Rhand, GHS + X)
Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Mystery Cop + 2X

Roleblocking
Rhand targets hypercube

[hypercube]

A Town player would admit they were defending their Townreads if that's what they were doing. At which points do you believe it was my intent to defend her?

These two particularly look like defenses:

This is a stretchy vote at best. EFHW didn't say, "We should all have a no stealing pact". She was thinking of suggesting it. It seems a reasonable thing to discuss within a house, even if it ends up being a bad idea. I'm mostly willing to chalk this vote up to it being early Day 1 in which it's okay to vote for someone just for disagreeing with them about something.

I'd like to know why faust is scumreading and calling for votes on EFHW. Is that still a thing?

[Glooble]

Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Mystery Cop + 2X

Sorry, it was three people total. Didds, Mystery Cop, and one other.

[hypercube]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

Why did you decide to give MiX the painrial? Especially in conjunction with investigating him I don't understand that decision.

[LaLight]

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

Errm... I'm confused. Weren't you supposed to also have a result on scola?

I also do have a result on scola.

[faust]

Didds being redirected/Bus Driven from MiX to Glooble only works if

a) A redirector/Bus Driver targeted MiX and Glooble
b) An alignment inverter targeted Glooble
[Note: Neither Redirectors nor Bus Drivers nor Alignment Inverters can be Ninja]

Bus Driver does not work if we believe Mystery Cop that they targeted Glooble, as the alerter would have gone somewhere else in that case.

What we'd need to know is whether Rhand and Glooble saw the same person. This means Rhand should claim what he saw first.

Another out-there option for how Didds could be telling the truth is if we think there is a role that randomly redirects all actions that one player takes, or something like that. It's also possible that MiX is a Nexus, I guess.

[faust]

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

Errm... I'm confused. Weren't you supposed to also have a result on scola?

I also do have a result on scola.

I think you're going to have to explain more, because I don't see how this is possible.

[LaLight]

Let's gather everything up.

Copping
chairs targets MiX -> non-town.
GHS targets faust + hypercube -> same alignment
Mystery Cop targets faust -> town
Didds targets MiX -> non-town

Inventions
Didds gives painrial to MiX
Someone gives Alerter to Glooble

Inventions or Neighborizing?
Someone gives QT to Glooble/Mystery Cop

Watching and Alerter
faust targets someone, result does not help here.
Rhand targets MiX successfully (saw chairs + others)
hypercube targets Eddie and is blocked
LaLight targets hypercube successfully (saw Rhand, GHS + X)
Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Mystery Cop + 2X

Roleblocking
Rhand targets hypercube

I also have a different result from my surge power, about scola being town. Although having seen the other results, it's not 100% surety.

[LaLight]

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

Errm... I'm confused. Weren't you supposed to also have a result on scola?

I also do have a result on scola.

I think you're going to have to explain more, because I don't see how this is possible.

I did 2 actions last night, is all. Watcher and surge action.

[LaLight]

Let's gather everything up.

Copping
chairs targets MiX -> non-town.
GHS targets faust + hypercube -> same alignment
Mystery Cop targets faust -> town
Didds targets MiX -> non-town

Inventions
Didds gives painrial to MiX
Someone gives Alerter to Glooble

Inventions or Neighborizing?
Someone gives QT to Glooble/Mystery Cop

Watching and Alerter
faust targets someone, result does not help here.
Rhand targets MiX successfully (saw chairs + others)
hypercube targets Eddie and is blocked
LaLight targets hypercube successfully (saw Rhand, GHS + X)
Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Mystery Cop + 2X

Roleblocking
Rhand targets hypercube

I also have a different result from my surge power, about scola being town. Although having seen the other results, it's not 100% surety.

it's not a cop, so no 100%. but more town than not town.

[faust]

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

Errm... I'm confused. Weren't you supposed to also have a result on scola?

I also do have a result on scola.

I think you're going to have to explain more, because I don't see how this is possible.

I did 2 actions last night, is all. Watcher and surge action.

Please state what your order's special power is.

[LaLight]

oh, sorry, order action.

[LaLight]

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

Errm... I'm confused. Weren't you supposed to also have a result on scola?

I also do have a result on scola.

I think you're going to have to explain more, because I don't see how this is possible.

I did 2 actions last night, is all. Watcher and surge action.

Please state what your order's special power is.

why?

[LaLight]

I missed the part where we claimed everything.

[faust]

Dylan32 - Dustbringer
LaLight - Skybreaker
faust - Windrunner
MiX - third party
hypercube - Windrunner
scolapasta - ?
WestCoastDidds - Lightweaver
Swowl - ?
Rhand - Windrunner
cayvie Town Skybreaker, killed N1
jotheonah - ?
EFHW Mafia Willshaper, lynched D1
Uncleeurope - third party
Galzria - ?
GreatHallScout - Willshaper or Stoneward
chairs - Truthwatcher
Glooble - IC
Jimmmmm - ?

At this point we might as well massclaim.

[faust]

why?

Why not?

[faust]

Your claiming an order that a dead townie belonged to, so I'm going to need some reassurance.

[faust]

Hot take: there are >=5 scum in this game.

[mail-mi]

There was a mod error last night. All players please check your QTs, the mod error has been resolved there.

[LaLight]

There was a mod error last night. All players please check your QTs, the mod error has been resolved there.

nothing for me

[LaLight]

Your claiming an order that a dead townie belonged to, so I'm going to need some reassurance.

well, ok

it's follower. I follow someone and see what actions they performed. I saw 2 actions by scola, both of them can be made by scum, but  make more sense for town. Also outing the actions is very antitown right now, I think.

[LaLight]

Your claiming an order that a dead townie belonged to, so I'm going to need some reassurance.

how did you know I'm a skybreaker though?

[LaLight]

also cayvie death is bad, but there are upsides. Not gonna tell what, again

I breadcrumbed being a skybreaker. Upsides are, that we still have skybreaker which is me.

[Glooble]

Ok, so the mod error was in my alerter results. Didds did not target me. Someone else did.

[Glooble]

I think this eliminates any inconsistencies.

[faust]

Your claiming an order that a dead townie belonged to, so I'm going to need some reassurance.

how did you know I'm a skybreaker though?

Well, you have a Watcher, and you are not a Windrunner since I know what the Windrunner order power is.

[scolapasta]

I have a work zoom conference these next 3 days, so will try to keep up to speed, but may not post much (at least not long posts). Though today and Friday are shorter (tomorrow is almost 10+ hours straight), so will hope to get some thoughts in, if I can.

(If there's anything that I feel I critically need to answer, I'll try to get to it during some break, here or there)

All that said, I am now understanding the 2nd M of RMM.

[MiX]

I wish I gave a damn.

This sounds fun, and I'm sure there's information in these claims.

Wake me up when you find out joth's scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

Why did you decide to give MiX the painrial? Especially in conjunction with investigating him I don't understand that decision.

Because I like MiX and didn't want him to die, but knew he was a likely target.  And I wanted to trust him.

This makes sense to me and probably anyone who knows me.

[MiX]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

Why did you decide to give MiX the painrial? Especially in conjunction with investigating him I don't understand that decision.

Because I like MiX and didn't want him to die, but knew he was a likely target.  And I wanted to trust him.

This makes sense to me and probably anyone who knows me.

I corroborate this.

I could also be dead and not know it. Imagine the fun in that.

[MiX]

I would like to point out that I was the target of two investigations.

So I guess the purpose of my role is to win despite town knowing they're third-party, whereas uncle's role is to win with town.

[MiX]

Oh crap scum should've alignment inverted me so that I could be insta-lynched due to 2 scum results but then I would invert due to not being town...

That would be epic.

Does anyone have any results on me moving anywhere? That would be fun.

People that like analyzing the web of intrigue we have, can you calculate who has to be scum? I'll sheep.

[faust]

faust, what do you think of Rhand, Galz, and Dylan. I'm sorry you don't like my Jim case; I thought it was elegant.

Oh yeah this question exists; I do not want to answer it.

[MiX]

faust, what do you think of Rhand, Galz, and Dylan. I'm sorry you don't like my Jim case; I thought it was elegant.

Oh yeah this question exists; I do not want to answer it.

What do you think of Galz?

[faust]

Could someone (Didds?) clarify how Spanreeds work exactly?

[faust]

faust, what do you think of Rhand, Galz, and Dylan. I'm sorry you don't like my Jim case; I thought it was elegant.

Oh yeah this question exists; I do not want to answer it.

What do you think of Galz?

Nice try but no.

[MiX]

Could someone (Didds?) clarify how Spanreeds work exactly?

You pick 2 people (not yourself) and it creates a neighborhood.

Proof:

And who the heck opened up that QT?

One of the things inventors can give is a QT to two people, but they are not part of it.

[Galzria]

Didds being redirected/Bus Driven from MiX to Glooble only works if

a) A redirector/Bus Driver targeted MiX and Glooble
b) An alignment inverter targeted Glooble
[Note: Neither Redirectors nor Bus Drivers nor Alignment Inverters can be Ninja]

Bus Driver does not work if we believe Mystery Cop that they targeted Glooble, as the alerter would have gone somewhere else in that case.

What we'd need to know is whether Rhand and Glooble saw the same person. This means Rhand should claim what he saw first.

Another out-there option for how Didds could be telling the truth is if we think there is a role that randomly redirects all actions that one player takes, or something like that. It's also possible that MiX is a Nexus, I guess.

Faust, what is Nexus?

[WestCoastDidds]

Could someone (Didds?) clarify how Spanreeds work exactly?

It gives 2 people a one-day neighborhood the next day, but I can't be one of those 2

[mail-mi]

Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.

Vote Count 2.3

MiX (1): LaLight,
hypercube (2): Uncleeurope, Swowl
GreatHallScout (3): hypercube, scolapasta, Rhand
jotheonah (3): faust, Galzria, MiX
Jimmmmm (2): jotheonah, chairs
WestCoastDidds (1): Glooble

Not Voting (4): Dylan32, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 lasts until 11:00AM FT on June 22, 2020.

[MiX]

Another out-there option for how Didds could be telling the truth is if we think there is a role that randomly redirects all actions that one player takes, or something like that. It's also possible that MiX is a Nexus, I guess.

Faust, what is Nexus?

Fairly certain Nexus redirects everything that targets it to someone else at random, but it's been a while.

[faust]

Could someone (Didds?) clarify how Spanreeds work exactly?

It gives 2 people a one-day neighborhood the next day, but I can't be one of those 2

So you target 2 players with it? Because the inventor role reads as though you'd only target one player.

[MiX]

Oh in case people thought I was playing in town's benefit today: I will hammer whenever I can. I need to know if nimbleform's a simple survivor or I need to do a side quest, both are possible given what I read.

[WestCoastDidds]

Could someone (Didds?) clarify how Spanreeds work exactly?

It gives 2 people a one-day neighborhood the next day, but I can't be one of those 2

So you target 2 players with it? Because the inventor role reads as though you'd only target one player.

Yes, I give it to 2 people

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh in case people thought I was playing in town's benefit today: I will hammer whenever I can. I need to know if nimbleform's a simple survivor or I need to do a side quest, both are possible given what I read.

How will hammering help you? Don't you need to make it to a storm?

[MiX]

Oh in case people thought I was playing in town's benefit today: I will hammer whenever I can. I need to know if nimbleform's a simple survivor or I need to do a side quest, both are possible given what I read.

How will hammering help you? Don't you need to make it to a storm?

I have to believe storms come quicker the more day/night cycles there are. Only way to play my role.

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm figuring one will come today because people are likely getting low on stormight.

[hypercube]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

Why did you decide to give MiX the painrial? Especially in conjunction with investigating him I don't understand that decision.

Because I like MiX and didn't want him to die, but knew he was a likely target.  And I wanted to trust him.

This makes sense to me and probably anyone who knows me.

Ok, I will file this as "anti-town but NAI" for now.

[MiX]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

Why did you decide to give MiX the painrial? Especially in conjunction with investigating him I don't understand that decision.

Because I like MiX and didn't want him to die, but knew he was a likely target.  And I wanted to trust him.

This makes sense to me and probably anyone who knows me.

Ok, I will file this as "anti-town but NAI" for now.

How is it anti-town? Most players are town, so it was likely for the cop result to turn up town, so she preemptively protected her cop result. Sounds fine to me.

Sure it didn't work this time but now she has a guilty result which is much better...were I not third-party. So in hindsight it was bad but how could she had known?

[hypercube]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

Why did you decide to give MiX the painrial? Especially in conjunction with investigating him I don't understand that decision.

Because I like MiX and didn't want him to die, but knew he was a likely target.  And I wanted to trust him.

This makes sense to me and probably anyone who knows me.

Ok, I will file this as "anti-town but NAI" for now.

How is it anti-town? Most players are town, so it was likely for the cop result to turn up town, so she preemptively protected her cop result. Sounds fine to me.

Sure it didn't work this time but now she has a guilty result which is much better...were I not third-party. So in hindsight it was bad but how could she had known?

I don't think there's a reason she had to give it to the same person she copped other than being worried about investigative roles, which town shouldn't do. I would assume my cop target to be more likely to be scum than a random person, so even just giving it to a random person would be better. Of course in this specific case she could have given it to Glooble, which would have been a lot better.

[MiX]

Do you think she's lying about giving the invention? If so, why? If not, what could she be scared of?

You can say that it's anti-town that she didn't give it to Glooble, sure, but that has nothing to do with giving it to the copped person.

[faust]

I'm figuring one will come today because people are likely getting low on stormight.

I am actually fairly certain that there will be no storm today because I doubt this game was designed so you could use your powers every night.

[MiX]

I'm figuring one will come today because people are likely getting low on stormight.

I am actually fairly certain that there will be no storm today because I doubt this game was designed so you could use your powers every night.

Agreed. But a man can dream...

[faust]

My current thought is that we need to know who targeted hypercube, as we need to figure out whether he had his alignment inverted. Feel free to discuss.

[MiX]

My current thought is that we need to know who targeted hypercube, as we need to figure out whether he had his alignment inverted. Feel free to discuss.

And how do we find out who targeted hypercube? If anyone knew, they would say so.

What we probably need is a massclaim, to hopefully get the last pieces of the puzzle down.

For the people in orders: do you think people have similar levels of stormlight? Because I have no idea what to expect, and thus I can't induce much based on the public reveals to how much people might be able to do N2.

[WestCoastDidds]

I gave my invention to someone I thought was town who I thought might be killed. Glooble needed a full doc shot to keep him safe, so that is someone else’s department. I used the cop to see if was right about the town read (alas). These are perfectly consistent to me. I was totally down for Eddie coordinating the coP shots, but he was opposed. So, I chose someone I wanted to know about.

PPE: 3

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm figuring one will come today because people are likely getting low on stormight.

I am actually fairly certain that there will be no storm today because I doubt this game was designed so you could use your powers every night.

Agreed. But a man can dream...

:/

[hypercube]

Do you think she's lying about giving the invention? If so, why? If not, what could she be scared of?

You can say that it's anti-town that she didn't give it to Glooble, sure, but that has nothing to do with giving it to the copped person.

I don't think she's lying about giving the invention, she could have had some reason to not want to claim who she gave it to at the time she gave it.

Personally, I would only cop people who I thought had a higher than average chance of being scum and so me protecting cop targets wouldn't make sense.

[MiX]

Personally

That's your mistake right there.

[hypercube]

My current thought is that we need to know who targeted hypercube, as we need to figure out whether he had his alignment inverted. Feel free to discuss.

And how do we find out who targeted hypercube? If anyone knew, they would say so.

LL says he watched me last night.

[MiX]

My current thought is that we need to know who targeted hypercube, as we need to figure out whether he had his alignment inverted. Feel free to discuss.

And how do we find out who targeted hypercube? If anyone knew, they would say so.

LL says he watched me last night.

Oh, that's easy.

[WestCoastDidds]

Personally

That's your mistake right there.

hahahahahaha! MiX, you have come so far in our months together!!! 

[Galzria]

Another out-there option for how Didds could be telling the truth is if we think there is a role that randomly redirects all actions that one player takes, or something like that. It's also possible that MiX is a Nexus, I guess.

Faust, what is Nexus?

Fairly certain Nexus redirects everything that targets it to someone else at random, but it's been a while.

Right... but why/how would you be a Nexus?

[faust]

Another out-there option for how Didds could be telling the truth is if we think there is a role that randomly redirects all actions that one player takes, or something like that. It's also possible that MiX is a Nexus, I guess.

Faust, what is Nexus?

Fairly certain Nexus redirects everything that targets it to someone else at random, but it's been a while.

Right... but why/how would you be a Nexus?

I tried to come up with a reason for why one action of Didds would be redirected from MiX to Glooble, but not the other, and that was the best I could come up with. It has since been clarified that we had a mod error, so this is no longer relevant.

[LaLight]

My current thought is that we need to know who targeted hypercube, as we need to figure out whether he had his alignment inverted. Feel free to discuss.

i know this.

[LaLight]

the third person to target cube was joth.

[MiX]

the third person to target cube was joth.

Lol.

[jotheonah]

I did not target cube last night, at least not on purpose. So we're either dealing with a liar or a redirector.

[scolapasta]

How does redirector work? You had multiple actions directed at multiple people. Does redirector just target you and then only some actions get redirected?

[jotheonah]

How does redirector work? You had multiple actions directed at multiple people. Does redirector just target you and then only some actions get redirected?

You're right, that doesn't ... wait how do you know I had multiple actions directed at multiple people?

[MiX]

faust, what do you think of Rhand, Galz, and Dylan. I'm sorry you don't like my Jim case; I thought it was elegant.

Did you target these 3 people?

[MiX]

faust, what do you think of Rhand, Galz, and Dylan. I'm sorry you don't like my Jim case; I thought it was elegant.

Did you target these 3 people?

Oh, whoops, forgot to mention that this question may or may not be in town's interest.

[scolapasta]

Sorry, fast typing due to virtual conference. Probably could have thrown an "if" in there.

(i.e. "if you had multiple actions directed at multiple people. Does redirector just target you and then only some actions get redirected?)

[chairs]

Am I voting joth yet? vote: joth.

If joth is town I think scola is scum.

[Greathallscout]

Looking over the quick faust wagon something about swowl came up on my radar.

"faust (7): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl, jotheonah, Rhand {L-3}"

scola-
 

OK, finally caught up on 7+ pages since last night.

Lots going on.

Re: my MiX "obsession" - I don't see it that way, mostly just I presented an argument, looking for good counter reasons, and all the counter reasons pointed out seemed not logically sound to me. So I wanted to point them out. That said, (and I have stated a few times) that the specific argument may itself be a red herring. I still think it, but I know it's not strong enough by itself for others.

OK, moving on, as we are 2+ hours from DL.

I had been leaning EFHW vs cube on the wagons (and may still get there), but I do like the idea of

vote: faust

So will second that one and see if others join in. If it doesn't build enough within the hour, will revisit my vote. I should be around for DL, assuming no work thing comes up.

this was one of the first mentions of voting faust i believe... except galz.

EFHW- voted to "self preseve"

Galz-

This is why faust is scum this game. He’s actively engaging in discrediting players and not arguments. His response to me earlier was derision and dismissal, rather than debating points made. Cayvie even called him on it at the time.

So... yeah. I would *prefer* to lynch faust here. Independent of him being my biggest scum read prior to claiming to be the Squire, I think the Squire is just more likely to be scum than the Master here.

But I don’t think a faust lynch will happen. Not that 3 hours isn’t long enough to swing the lunch there, but there won’t be 10 people willing to make it happen.

Cayvie-

Yes YES the tiger is out!
faust: Lean scum.

joth-

I'm in for a vote: faust actually. Galzria articulated it better than I could, but he is definitely pinging my "scum!faust" radar a bit.

This was before the faust train took off

Rhand-

Voted Faust earlier in the day and had those "intense" feeling towards him. Definitely wasn't a "surprising" vote.

Swowl-

Vote: Faust

Waking up- I’ll be back.

This was when they voted during the wagon. This was the only time I saw them mention faust as under their radar. They were the only one who hadn't mentioned earlier that they had interest in voting faust and then joins that new wagon without saying why and never explained. This seems to me like scum trying to save their partner last second and didn't have time to come up with a decent argument.

[jotheonah]

I keep forgetting Swowl is in this game. I wouldn't shed a tear to lynch there, but I think we can do better.

[MiX]

I keep forgetting Swowl is in this game. I wouldn't shed a tear to lynch there, but I think we can do better.

I would shed a tear. 

Don't make me pick the scum form guys, lynch joth or scum. Scola's probably scum, or Galzria. I'm sure we can't go wrong with joth/scola/Galzria today.

[jotheonah]

Can we revisit why we all believe MiX's third party story? I'd like to lynch him just to make sure. Also he's really annoying.

[MiX]

Can we revisit why we all believe MiX's third party story? I'd like to lynch him just to make sure. Also he's really annoying.

I claimed to Uncle very early D1. And now I get to be as annoying as I want!

Hey, if you wanted me to play for town you wouldn't talk about how best to vig me, I don't believe I'm living this night.

[Greathallscout]

Can we revisit why we all believe MiX's third party story? I'd like to lynch him just to make sure. Also he's really annoying.

I don't believe him yet and I would totally lynch him considering I don't like having 3rd party around anyway. We still have more night info to discuss and why not scumhunt?

[MiX]

why not scumhunt?

You answered your own question. I ain't scum, and I'll never be scum, no matter how much you want me to be. Lynching me is giving scum a mislynch, and that's pretty bad considering how we could get a perfect town sweep.

[Swowl]

I keep forgetting Swowl is in this game. I wouldn't shed a tear to lynch there, but I think we can do better.

I am here. Just trying to keep up with what is going on tbh. Sorry to admit it but the other one i was in that ended recently was just taking up a lot of time. I will get some thoughts out ASAP!

I cannot tell where we landed on the claiming bit. Should i be doing that?

[MiX]

Unrelated, Greathall is town and I will carry this read to the grave.

I keep forgetting Swowl is in this game. I wouldn't shed a tear to lynch there, but I think we can do better.

I am here. Just trying to keep up with what is going on tbh. Sorry to admit it but the other one i was in that ended recently was just taking up a lot of time. I will get some thoughts out ASAP!

I cannot tell where we landed on the claiming bit. Should i be doing that?

I forgot. We claimed so much that you most likely have useful information to claim, but other than that I don't think there's been a call for a massclaim.

[chairs]

Okay, well then.

CALLING FOR A MASSCLAIM.

We have so much claimed already. Might as well put the cards on the table, ladies and gents (and folks of any other persuasion, as well).

[MiX]

Okay, well then.

CALLING FOR A MASSCLAIM.

We have so much claimed already. Might as well put the cards on the table, ladies and gents (and folks of any other persuasion, as well).

You first! I forgot what else you did.

[Galzria]

Okay, well then.

CALLING FOR A MASSCLAIM.

We have so much claimed already. Might as well put the cards on the table, ladies and gents (and folks of any other persuasion, as well).

I’ll wait for Glooble, thanks.

[LaLight]

vote: joth

[LaLight]

yay i found scum!

[Glooble]

Ok, I think it's time.

Mystery Cop is joth.

[MiX]

Ok, I think it's time.

Mystery Cop is joth.

...

Do you want us to move?

I'm fairly certain scum made the QT. Did anyone claim to make it?

[Greathallscout]

Ok, I think it's time.

Mystery Cop is joth.

...

Do you want us to move?

I'm fairly certain scum made the QT. Did anyone claim to make it?

doesnt glooble know who did it?

[Glooble]

Ok, I think it's time.

Mystery Cop is joth.

...

Do you want us to move?

I'm fairly certain scum made the QT. Did anyone claim to make it?

doesnt glooble know who did it?

I do.

[MiX]

Aww.

So should we unvote joth or...? Do all cops need to be town?

[Greathallscout]

Anyone have any ideas how lalight and joth could both be telling the truth? Only thing I can think of is: a power that I am not aware of exists.

[Glooble]

Aww.

So should we unvote joth or...? Do all cops need to be town?

I'm not telling anyone how to vote, I just don't see why scum!joth gives me the alerter. Towncred, I guess. But if he didn't know he'd be getting the QT I don't see how that lines up.

[Greathallscout]

Aww.

So should we unvote joth or...? Do all cops need to be town?

I'm not telling anyone how to vote, I just don't see why scum!joth gives me the alerter. Towncred, I guess. But if he didn't know he'd be getting the QT I don't see how that lines up.

Why does the QT add anything? he could just claim it?

[Greathallscout]

Just going through some lying scenarios. These are just a few I was contemplating.

For these I am assuming joth DID give glooble the alerter since it pans out pretty well assuming glooble didn't tell joth about it before joth admited to it (I guess scum!joth could have known from his teamates but I am assuming not.)

If this is true then joth is very likely a lightweaver. Town!joth for sure is. Scum!joth lightweaver would lie about alignment inverter. I dont see him lying about elsecaller's known abilities. As I am writing this I realize I don't know elsecaller's order power that he could lie about...

Scenario 1- Scum!joth gives glooble the alerter, changes hypercube's alignment and lies about copping faust.
             
                (GHS's true!result would be faust and hyper are NOT the same alignment.)

Why would scum!joth target hyper and lie about it if there are so many watchers in the game and potentially more types of watchertype roles? Seems so risky. Also he could've told glooble that he copped hyper for the same money and protected himself.


Scenario 2- Scum!Lalight (probably not lying about skybreaker because he told us the order power) lied about watching hypercube or that joth targeted hyper.

Lalight confirmed GHS's and Rhand's targeting after those 2 claimed. Scum!skybreaker didn't drain stormlight because of tracker worries. There isn't much to do at this point if you aren't draining. So I guess the play is to get towncred for doing towny things? Why would they get into a fight so early? We might lynch him and a scum!vig is really strong. Maybe he feels confident at this point that joth looks scummier(which seems like a valid assumption). But then what? We lynch joth then we lynch lalight? I guess he could use his vig tonight then and call it a successful scum move to lynch joth and get a kill at night...

Gonna sleep on these and more options. curious as to others thoughts.

[faust]

Aww.

So should we unvote joth or...? Do all cops need to be town?

Obviously not, as scum needs alignment inverters.

[Rhand]

Can confirm that Dibbs targeted MiX.

Can someone list the inventions and what they actually do? My hungover brain doesn’t store information well.

[Rhand]

Let's gather everything up.

Copping
chairs targets MiX -> non-town.
GHS targets faust + hypercube -> same alignment
Mystery Cop targets faust -> town
Didds targets MiX -> non-town

Inventions
Didds gives painrial to MiX
Someone gives Alerter to Glooble

Inventions or Neighborizing?
Someone gives QT to Glooble/Mystery Cop

Watching and Alerter
faust targets someone, result does not help here.
Rhand targets MiX successfully (saw chairs + others)
hypercube targets Eddie and is blocked
LaLight targets hypercube successfully (saw Rhand, GHS + X)
Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Mystery Cop + 2X

Roleblocking
Rhand targets hypercube

Wasn’t scolapasta copped by someone?

[Jimmmmm]

@Jim I didn't miss your going to bed post and I don't think I misrepresented it. I acknowledged that you ending the day with your vote on EFHW was points against you being her partner. But I felt that the rest of your posts fit my narrative well enough that it was still worth a vote. Then I explained that perhaps the reason for parking your vote is that you meant to come back and switch it but didn't, either because you were asleep (as you said deadline timing was bad for you) or because at the time you checked in you calculated that maintaining the bus was the better cost-benefit analysis.

SOrry if I didn't explain that well, I was trying to post coherent thoughts at the end of a long day and a 51-page re-read.

Is your theory that I planned to change it before I went to bed (still several hours before deadline) or to get up at say 4:30am for it? I don't have anywhere near the commitment level to this game to do the latter.

[Swowl]

I said there would be input from me. There will be. I just finished an extremely long re read and it is like 130am here, so post will have to wait for the morning. sorry.

[faust]

Let's gather everything up.

Copping
chairs targets MiX -> non-town.
GHS targets faust + hypercube -> same alignment
Mystery Cop targets faust -> town
Didds targets MiX -> non-town

Inventions
Didds gives painrial to MiX
Someone gives Alerter to Glooble

Inventions or Neighborizing?
Someone gives QT to Glooble/Mystery Cop

Watching and Alerter
faust targets someone, result does not help here.
Rhand targets MiX successfully (saw chairs + others)
hypercube targets Eddie and is blocked
LaLight targets hypercube successfully (saw Rhand, GHS + X)
Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Mystery Cop + 2X

Roleblocking
Rhand targets hypercube

Wasn’t scolapasta copped by someone?

LaLight followed scolapasta. At the time I wrote this, it wasn't yet clear what exactly LaLight had done.

[LaLight]

Why would scum!joth target hyper and lie about it if there are so many watchers in the game and potentially more types of watchertype roles?

Target to alignment invert, so we lynch town and strip the other town of their abilities.

Lying about it, because he didn't know hyper was watched and already claimed to Glooble at that point. Would be weird to say after my claim "oh yeah, I targeted hyper too"

[LaLight]

if joth would be redirected, all of his actions would be redirected. I just don't believe him, Mystery Cop or not.

Actually, being Mystery Cop is an amazing opportunity for towncred.

[LaLight]

in other news I had a dream, that Voltaire was an IC in the game and he had two vengeful shots, we lynched him to kill MiX and Eddie, MiX was a normal survivor and Eddie was modified survivor, but I don't know how modified

[LaLight]

It might do something with the fact that I currently reread Toy Story (Voltaire was an IC there)

[hypercube]

So, potential scenarios:

1. joth and LL are both telling the truth, joth was redirected onto me.

I don't think we have any information that contradicts this, although we lack a motive. In this case I suppose joth's cop result would really be from me, instead of faust. joth should probably claim everything else he did last night to see if we can confirm it somehow.

2. joth is lying and targeted me.

In this case he has to be scum, since I don't see why town would lie. Things he could have targeted me with include roleblocker (makes sense), alignment inverter (makes less sense but it's possible scum tries to frame me), or some negative utility invention (does one of those exist?). I don't understand why scum!joth would lie about targeting me though, seems easy to claim that he targeted me with some towny action instead.

Also, as far as I knew faust was planning on watching me last night, so it doesn't make any sense for scum!joth to have targeted scum!me last night without having some claim ready for why he'd target me.

3. LL is lying and joth didn't target me.

This would straightforwardly be an attempt to get mislynches through. I don't think we have any confirmation that LL actually watched me, since Rhand and GHS already claimed to have targeted me when LL said he watched me.

[faust]

joth wasn't redirected, or otherwise LaLight would have seen the redirector target hypercube.

[Jimmmmm]

LaLight re-read #2. Last time I concluded he was mildly scummy for not having good reasons for his scumread on Glooble.

i scumread Glooble, because his posts feel like posts for the sake of posts, not really doing anything

hos first posts were like too serious for rvs, but without meaningful content. that's what i usually do when I am scum, I feel the urge to just not post, when it's 18 people in a game, but oh well, I need to post at least something. so, what's the biggest deal? oh, Eddie's weirdness

This is probably fine and enough to promote LL to null; Glooble not being an IC seems too long ago to really be relevant now anyway.

I don't see this as a scumslip per se.

if Glooble isn't happening, I'd vote: Eddie then.

i guess faust is town. the last two times i correctly read him as scum, so there's something. I think I maybe would be willing to vote for oh man

pretty much everyone, except couple of people. I feel strongly only about Eddie, chairs or MiX.

Nothing to say about these, but stances are always worth noting.

vote: EFHW

Galzria lynch is a bad lynch, that's what I think. Same with chairs. EFHW is fine though

@lallight What did EFHW do that you think is scummy? I see nothing.

she's just not townie enough unlike the alternatives

Non-Mafia points for contributing to the EFHW lynch.


And Today's posts are mostly about claims and Night Actions. I think participation in the EFHW lynch is enough for a mild-moderate Town read, and I don't see any reason to downgrade that.

My conclusion on scola is that I find him scummy, but the LL claim is a big enough asterisk that I would be hesitant to lynch him without more of a resolution to that.

It seems that the obvious next place to look is joth.

[Jimmmmm]

joth wasn't redirected, or otherwise LaLight would have seen the redirector target hypercube.

Unless they were a Ninja?

[MiX]

joth wasn't redirected, or otherwise LaLight would have seen the redirector target hypercube.

Unless they were a Ninja?

Which order has redirection?

[jotheonah]

The Lightweaver Order special power might be relavent here. It’s not just a hider, it’s a modified hider. We can disguise ourselves as another player and attempts to target us target the player we disguise ourselves instead.

So if hyper is a Lightweaver who lied about his order, that could explain the redirect. That seems really unlikely because of he and Faust’s QT though.

The other reason I mention that power is that I find it suspicious that when Didds was asked about our order’s special power she just said “Hider”. Why does town need to keep the rest of that role to themselves? I definitely understand why scum would.

Unfortunately I couldn’t point it out at the time without claiming.

[hypercube]

joth wasn't redirected, or otherwise LaLight would have seen the redirector target hypercube.

Unless they were a Ninja?

Which order has redirection?

EFHW claimed that Willshapers did.

[jotheonah]

You should definitely believe that I am a light caller regardless of my alignment. So I am a cop who has a QT with the IC for the rest of the day. I also have sufficient storm light to cop again, even without a high storm. And I’m perfectly willing to let Glooble direct my night actions. So there is a lot of extra downside to lynching me tonight, above and beyond the fact that I’m town.

Vote: LaLight

[hypercube]

The Lightweaver Order special power might be relavent here. It’s not just a hider, it’s a modified hider. We can disguise ourselves as another player and attempts to target us target the player we disguise ourselves instead.

You should know if it's relevant or not. Did you target Didds?

[jotheonah]

*lightweaver

[jotheonah]

The Lightweaver Order special power might be relavent here. It’s not just a hider, it’s a modified hider. We can disguise ourselves as another player and attempts to target us target the player we disguise ourselves instead.

You should know if it's relevant or not. Did you target Didds?

I didn’t use it. It costs a lot of stormlight that I wanted to save for investigations.

[jotheonah]

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

[MiX]

joth wasn't redirected, or otherwise LaLight would have seen the redirector target hypercube.

Unless they were a Ninja?

Which order has redirection?

EFHW claimed that Willshapers did.

Willshapers don't have Ninja.

The Lightweaver Order special power might be relavent here. It’s not just a hider, it’s a modified hider. We can disguise ourselves as another player and attempts to target us target the player we disguise ourselves instead.

So if hyper is a Lightweaver who lied about his order, that could explain the redirect. That seems really unlikely because of he and Faust’s QT though.

The other reason I mention that power is that I find it suspicious that when Didds was asked about our order’s special power she just said “Hider”. Why does town need to keep the rest of that role to themselves? I definitely understand why scum would.

Unfortunately I couldn’t point it out at the time without claiming.

Okay so let's see what happened:

You copped faust and gave Glooble the Alerter. Someone else independently neighborhooded the bros, which means Glooble knows who they are as he has the Alerter. Then you give Glooble your Cop info.

In a seperate world, LL watches hypercube, and sees you (and who else? I forgot). Is this everything that has been challenged?

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

How?

[hypercube]

OK, so there's no possible way joth was redirected on to me then.

[MiX]

Unvote

Let's play town for a bit.

Tell me more theories about how joth and LL could both be town. Otherwise I'm just gonna vote either of them, and I suspect so will town.

[jotheonah]

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

Obviously I mean to Glooble not to Didds. Sorry, very much pre-coffee!

[hypercube]

Unvote

Let's play town for a bit.

Tell me more theories about how joth and LL could both be town. Otherwise I'm just gonna vote either of them, and I suspect so will town.

I don't think there's any way, unless one of them is town and lying.

[MiX]

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

Obviously I mean to Glooble not to Didds. Sorry, very much pre-coffee!

Then this makes no sense. It's scummier to do things without the IC telling you to do them than not.

Unvote

Let's play town for a bit.

Tell me more theories about how joth and LL could both be town. Otherwise I'm just gonna vote either of them, and I suspect so will town.

I don't think there's any way, unless one of them is town and lying.

That's lazy, there has to be a way.

Do you remember every investigative action performed today? Who was watched? Who was tracked?

So far I have:

LaLight watches hypercube
faust watches
hypercube watches Eddie and is roleblocked
Glooble watches themselves

Feels incomplete.

[hypercube]

Or, I suppose EFHW could have been lying about being a redirector and a ninja redirector is possible, but that seems unlikely.

[hypercube]

Do you remember every investigative action performed today? Who was watched? Who was tracked?

So far I have:

LaLight watches hypercube
faust watches
hypercube watches Eddie and is roleblocked
Glooble watches themselves

Feels incomplete.

Rhand watches you, no-one has claimed tracker yet.

[Glooble]

 Joth did full claim to me at the start of the day, including order power.

[MiX]

Do inventors know what their things do?

[LaLight]

You should definitely believe that I am a light caller regardless of my alignment. So I am a cop who has a QT with the IC for the rest of the day. I also have sufficient storm light to cop again, even without a high storm. And I’m perfectly willing to let Glooble direct my night actions. So there is a lot of extra downside to lynching me tonight, above and beyond the fact that I’m town.

Vote: LaLight

so, what's the upside to lynch me?

also you can always lie about the results. or even tell the truth - you know the alignments.

[MiX]

You should definitely believe that I am a light caller regardless of my alignment. So I am a cop who has a QT with the IC for the rest of the day. I also have sufficient storm light to cop again, even without a high storm. And I’m perfectly willing to let Glooble direct my night actions. So there is a lot of extra downside to lynching me tonight, above and beyond the fact that I’m town.

Vote: LaLight

so, what's the upside to lynch me?

also you can always lie about the results. or even tell the truth - you know the alignments.

If you flip town then we get to lynch joth.

Do you have enough stormlight to watch? Don't answer this, I'm not town, sometimes I forget.

[jotheonah]

You should definitely believe that I am a light caller regardless of my alignment. So I am a cop who has a QT with the IC for the rest of the day. I also have sufficient storm light to cop again, even without a high storm. And I’m perfectly willing to let Glooble direct my night actions. So there is a lot of extra downside to lynching me tonight, above and beyond the fact that I’m town.

Vote: LaLight

so, what's the upside to lynch me?

also you can always lie about the results. or even tell the truth - you know the alignments.

In fact I don’t. But fine, keep me alive for a night, lynch me tomorrow. If I’m scum, my investigations don’t tell you much (though it still forces me to give a result which is not great for scum). But if I flip town, which I will, you’ll have enough results to basically solve the game probably.

Uh and the upside to lynching you is you’re probably scum.

[LaLight]

You should definitely believe that I am a light caller regardless of my alignment. So I am a cop who has a QT with the IC for the rest of the day. I also have sufficient storm light to cop again, even without a high storm. And I’m perfectly willing to let Glooble direct my night actions. So there is a lot of extra downside to lynching me tonight, above and beyond the fact that I’m town.

Vote: LaLight

so, what's the upside to lynch me?

also you can always lie about the results. or even tell the truth - you know the alignments.

In fact I don’t. But fine, keep me alive for a night, lynch me tomorrow. If I’m scum, my investigations don’t tell you much (though it still forces me to give a result which is not great for scum). But if I flip town, which I will, you’ll have enough results to basically solve the game probably.

Uh and the upside to lynching you is you’re probably scum.

your investigation result will be the one you want us to know, so it is not helpful at all.

[faust]

It's joth. We get rid of him, we get rid of hypercube, we'lll be in a pretty decent position.

I feel sorry for the scum team.

[MiX]

It's joth. We get rid of him, we get rid of hypercube, we'lll be in a pretty decent position.

I feel sorry for the scum team.

I still don't understand why hypercube is scum.

Don't forget, I'm here to ash hammer. Just gotta give me an opportunity.

[WestCoastDidds]

The Lightweaver Order special power might be relavent here. It’s not just a hider, it’s a modified hider. We can disguise ourselves as another player and attempts to target us target the player we disguise ourselves instead.

So if hyper is a Lightweaver who lied about his order, that could explain the redirect. That seems really unlikely because of he and Faust’s QT though.

The other reason I mention that power is that I find it suspicious that when Didds was asked about our order’s special power she just said “Hider”. Why does town need to keep the rest of that role to themselves? I definitely understand why scum would.

Unfortunately I couldn’t point it out at the time without claiming.

Two reasons....when faust asked the question, I was being asked to reveal things about the Lightweavers that hadn’t previously been shared and I was wary of doing so, especially because I was being questioned about a result on me that wasn’t true (turns out it was an error). I wanted to provide enough information that it could be verified, but not so much that scum would know everything. I also didn’t realize that it could skew results as you’ve detailed....perhaps not surprisingly I have no experience with this kind of role and thought it too expensive to use so I didn’t think about it too carefully

Other reason was I was on my phone and just answered quickly

[WestCoastDidds]

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

Huh? Typo, maybe? Because no, you didn’t.

[WestCoastDidds]

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

Huh? Typo, maybe? Because no, you didn’t.

See it now, sorry for not reading first

[MiX]

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

Huh? Typo, maybe? Because no, you didn’t.

I fullclaimed to Didds at the start of the day in the QT. My suggestion, btw. All I did last night was cop faust and give Glooble the Alerter.

Obviously I mean to Glooble not to Didds. Sorry, very much pre-coffee!

PPE: Town!me would've deleted this post. Third-party me doesn't care at all!

I think this is the first time I've been non-SK third-party. I love/hate it.

[WestCoastDidds]

Do inventors know what their things do?

Yes....we have 4 choices, and we have 2 of each available but can only give one per night. It’s not as pricey as the cop action.
Give a qt to 2 people
Delay a kill by a day and night
Give someone a weak modifier...if they target someone non town they die
Tell someone who targeted them at night

[MiX]

Do inventors know what their things do?

Yes....we have 4 choices, and we have 2 of each available but can only give one per night. It’s not as pricey as the cop action.
Give a qt to 2 people
Delay a kill by a day and night
Give someone a weak modifier...if they target someone non town they die
Tell someone who targeted them at night

Gee, thanks past-me for not trying to fakeclaim this. That's fairly different from the surge power in the setup post.

Thanks for this information, I'm sure it was both pro-town and anti-town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Other you’s head would be exploding.

I truly don’t know what to share or not. When I hold something back, Joth says “how does that help town?” When I share it....could be non-town?

Good gravy.

[MiX]

Other you’s head would be exploding.

I truly don’t know what to share or not. When I hold something back, Joth says “how does that help town?” When I share it....could be non-town?

Good gravy.

The only solution is to know the setup fully, especially the parts no one knows. Then you can make informed decisions!

I kid, but in open setups you do kinda have to go down the rabbit hole on "what does my claim do to the game" before claiming, and that's not trivial.

In this game I don't think it matters. Joth just wants to sus everyone.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, why don’t you solve the game for us, then you can be the MVP even if you aren’t town!

[scolapasta]

Do inventors know what their things do?

Yes....we have 4 choices, and we have 2 of each available but can only give one per night. It’s not as pricey as the cop action.
Give a qt to 2 people
Delay a kill by a day and night
Give someone a weak modifier...if they target someone non town they die
Tell someone who targeted them at night

Gee, thanks past-me for not trying to fakeclaim this. That's fairly different from the surge power in the setup post.

Thanks for this information, I'm sure it was both pro-town and anti-town.

The power itself or the info?

[MiX]

MiX, why don’t you solve the game for us, then you can be the MVP even if you aren’t town!

I will, but only after I know my win condition.

Do inventors know what their things do?

Yes....we have 4 choices, and we have 2 of each available but can only give one per night. It’s not as pricey as the cop action.
Give a qt to 2 people
Delay a kill by a day and night
Give someone a weak modifier...if they target someone non town they die
Tell someone who targeted them at night

Gee, thanks past-me for not trying to fakeclaim this. That's fairly different from the surge power in the setup post.

Thanks for this information, I'm sure it was both pro-town and anti-town.

The power itself or the info?

The info. The power is obviously pro-town.

[scolapasta]

That's what I thought too, just confirming.

Also, where's Eddie?

[LaLight]

That's what I thought too, just confirming.

Also, where's Eddie?

did you claim anywhere what you did at night? knowing that I know what actions you did, can you say the names of people you targeted?

[LaLight]

WAIT

do we still not know who opened a QT between Glooble and joth?

[WestCoastDidds]

WAIT

do we still not know who opened a QT between Glooble and joth?

Glooble knows....but I don’t think he’s said yet

[Glooble]

Yeah there's no reason for me to say right now.

[jotheonah]

It's only relevant if it's someone who has previously claimed an order that would not give them access to that surge. And I assume if that was the case you would have called it out already.

[scolapasta]

Might as well reveal, then.

It was me. I tried breadcrumbing a few times, especially to Gloobie before I knew he also got alerter.

And I was confused when he didn't reach out to me (via Eddie), until we learned about the mod error.

D1 I got joth town vibes*, and wanted to connect our IC.

* mostly from the way he town identified Gloobie, which I don't think scum!joth would feel the need to do

(and yes joth, it was actually a slip when I said you had done multiple actions to multiple people - since I figured out you were Mystery Cop - then tried to play it off, because I wasn't ready to reveal my Inventor role yet)

[scolapasta]

I'd rather not reveal my other action yet, as I don't know if I want to fully reveal order yet.

(reminder in virtual conference, so can't process everything about this as much as I'd like - should be done by tomorrow afternoon EDT)

[LaLight]

Yeah there's no reason for me to say right now.

oh ok then. good.

[LaLight]

Might as well reveal, then.

It was me. I tried breadcrumbing a few times, especially to Gloobie before I knew he also got alerter.

And I was confused when he didn't reach out to me (via Eddie), until we learned about the mod error.

D1 I got joth town vibes*, and wanted to connect our IC.

* mostly from the way he town identified Gloobie, which I don't think scum!joth would feel the need to do

(and yes joth, it was actually a slip when I said you had done multiple actions to multiple people - since I figured out you were Mystery Cop - then tried to play it off, because I wasn't ready to reveal my Inventor role yet)

checks out

[MiX]

Which means that if joth's scum, then the QT opener is...town? That or Ll is wrong about the towny things that scola did and he's actually scum.

LL, do you still think scola's town?

[scolapasta]

Yeah there's no reason for me to say right now.

oh ok then. good.

Oops, I misread Gloobie as saying "no reason for me to not say right now." Oh well, I was considering this reveal anyway, so, there you have it.

[MiX]

Yeah there's no reason for me to say right now.

oh ok then. good.

Oops, I misread Gloobie as saying "no reason for me to not say right now." Oh well, I was considering this reveal anyway, so, there you have it.

I hope nimbleform craves for information as much as I do right now.

You did the right thing scola. I now scumread your partner less out of mechanics.

[scolapasta]

Yeah there's no reason for me to say right now.

oh ok then. good.

Oops, I misread Gloobie as saying "no reason for me to not say right now." Oh well, I was considering this reveal anyway, so, there you have it.

I hope nimbleform craves for information as much as I do right now.

You did the right thing scola. I now scumread your partner less out of mechanics.

I don't understand the 2nd sentence. Who is "my partner"?

[Uncleeurope]

"Quiet Times, folks.

Also, sorry for not conversing with you all here in the frequency that I should, I honestly keep forgetting that there even is a town square."

[chairs]

Huh.

Afraid I don't have much to say at the moment but I'm about to be semi VLA so I figured I'd throw out a warning on that front.

[scolapasta]

When is deadline?

(I also just noticed that our mod is VLA from tonight til Sunday)

[Galzria]

I’m hanging with Raptor & Swowl today so am generally not engaged.

I need to kind of look at and try to process most of the claims (I’m caught up and following, but not really processing or critically thinking about what’s been claimed). I doubt there’s any sort of “aha” moment to be had, or somebody would’ve caught it already, but I can try to balance the claims and my reads to see if there’s anything that leaves me feeling one way or another.

[scolapasta]

I’m hanging with Raptor & Swowl today so am generally not engaged.

I need to kind of look at and try to process most of the claims (I’m caught up and following, but not really processing or critically thinking about what’s been claimed). I doubt there’s any sort of “aha” moment to be had, or somebody would’ve caught it already, but I can try to balance the claims and my reads to see if there’s anything that leaves me feeling one way or another.

Yeah, that's where I am too, with this conference. Almost done today, and then half day tomorrow (including my presentation).

[Dylan32]

Vote Count 2.Dylan

hypercube (2): Uncleeurope, Swowl
GreatHallScout (3): hypercube, scolapasta, Rhand
jotheonah (4): faust, Galzria, chairs, LaLight
WestCoastDidds (1): Glooble
LaLight (1): Jotheonah

Not Voting (5): Dylan32, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, MiX

[Glooble]

unvote

Still voting from the mod error lol.

[Rhand]

Vote Count 2.Dylan

hypercube (2): Uncleeurope, Swowl
GreatHallScout (3): hypercube, scolapasta, Rhand
jotheonah (4): faust, Galzria, chairs, LaLight
WestCoastDidds (1): Glooble
LaLight (1): Jotheonah

Not Voting (5): Dylan32, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, MiX

I like 4 of these wagons. That can’t be right :/
I’m gonna read Day 2 again.

[Jimmmmm]

Checking in; I don't have the headspace for a re-read tonight, but will do some tomorrow.

[Greathallscout]

checking in as well. Had  a long day yesterday. caught up and going to do a slower read soon

[hypercube]

I have to apologize and just check in as well, don't have time to get into rereading stuff today.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hey ya'll....just a reminder siince we are going into the weekend:

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 lasts until 11:00AM FT on June 22, 2020.

That is Monday...

[Swowl]

Let's gather everything up.

Copping
chairs targets MiX -> non-town.
GHS targets faust + hypercube -> same alignment
Mystery Cop targets faust -> town
Didds targets MiX -> non-town

Inventions
Didds gives painrial to MiX
Someone gives Alerter to Glooble

Inventions or Neighborizing?
Someone gives QT to Glooble/Mystery Cop

Watching and Alerter
faust targets someone, result does not help here.
Rhand targets MiX successfully (saw chairs + others)
hypercube targets Eddie and is blocked
LaLight targets hypercube successfully (saw Rhand, GHS + X)
Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Mystery Cop + 2X

Roleblocking
Rhand targets hypercube

OK so, I am quoting the previous list in this format because I find it the best way to make it so far. I have updated it with what I believe to be to date information... which means either I have messed something up (most likely) or we have a few inconsistencies here. I have bolded the changes:

Copping
chairs targets MiX -> non-town.
GHS targets faust + hypercube -> same alignment
Joth targets faust -> town
Didds targets MiX -> non-town

Inventions
Didds gives painrial to MiX
Joth gives Alerter to Glooble
Pasta gives QT to Glooble/Joth

Watching and Alerter
faust targets someone, result does not help here.
Rhand targets MiX successfully (saw chairs + WCD + not clear on more or not)
hypercube targets Eddie and is blocked
LaLight targets hypercube successfully (saw Rhand, GHS + Joth)
Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Joth + 2X

Roleblocking
Rhand targets hypercube



So - assuming that is all correct, there are two fairly obvious WTF's that we are working with, given the information to this point:

1) Everyone has pointed this out - Joth claims to give alert to Glooble and to of Copped faust. However, LL claims to of seen Joth visit Cube, which Joth claims not to of done. So, either...

a) Someone is lying.
   - Kind of leaning against it being Joth here as the liar. That would be a bold move to target Cube, and then claim not to of. IMO faust/cube would of been prime targets to watch last night.
   - Again... kind of leaning not LL either, because that CC set up would be just so strange. Like what is the case there? LL pushes Joth, and if LL is lying then Joth flips town yeah? Then what... we just lynch LL tomorrow. I don't think that is super likely either.

b) Joth targeted faust, but ended up being on Cube due to a Bus Driver.
   - Actually no this doesn't make sense if faust actually has a result, as Rhand would of blocked faust.


2) OK then there is this. WCD is giving MiX the Invention thing, and then WCD is also copping MiX. But then Glooble's Alerter thing says that WCD visited Glooble. Has that been explained?


So, assuming I have the info gathered correctly.. I guess questions would be..
1) WCD did you target Glooble?
2) Faust, is your "irrelevant result" like actually a result of some sort?

[chairs]

Would the modified hider role impact watchers that saw the person disguised maybe?

[scolapasta]

2) OK then there is this. WCD is giving MiX the Invention thing, and then WCD is also copping MiX. But then Glooble's Alerter thing says that WCD visited Glooble. Has that been explained?

This was explained by mod error. (Gloobie should've alerted that I targeted them, not Didds).

[Greathallscout]

Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Joth + 2X

So now it is joth , pasta , and one other

Also LL claimed pasta did another thing that he "followed"

[Greathallscout]

@Rhand is it clear that hyper was blocked or could Eddie not have been targeted to get no result?

[Dylan32]

Unfortunately, like several other people, I'm just checking in. If I have time, I'll try to catch up and reread what's been going on before bed tonight, otherwise I'll be back tomorrow.

[MiX]

I haven't posted today.

[scolapasta]

Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Joth + 2X

So now it is joth , pasta , and one other

Also LL claimed pasta did another thing that he "followed"

The last person who targeted Gloobie could've been a doctor, no? and if so, it makes sense not to reveal.

[MiX]

Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Joth + 2X

So now it is joth , pasta , and one other

Also LL claimed pasta did another thing that he "followed"

The last person who targeted Gloobie could've been a doctor, no? and if so, it makes sense not to reveal.

Does it? Why?

We have like 4 cops claimed or something.

[Swowl]

2) OK then there is this. WCD is giving MiX the Invention thing, and then WCD is also copping MiX. But then Glooble's Alerter thing says that WCD visited Glooble. Has that been explained?

This was explained by mod error. (Gloobie should've alerted that I targeted them, not Didds).

Knew i was missing something thanks.

[Swowl]

Glooble's Alerter says Didds, Joth + 2X

So now it is joth , pasta , and one other

Also LL claimed pasta did another thing that he "followed"

The last person who targeted Gloobie could've been a doctor, no? and if so, it makes sense not to reveal.

Does it? Why?

We have like 4 cops claimed or something.

I mean... glooble knows who it is right? Probably leave that one up to them.

[Swowl]

Would the modified hider role impact watchers that saw the person disguised maybe?

Like player A is disguised as player b. Someone watches player c. Player a targets player C.... your saying maybe watcher sees player B?

The way i read Joths description was as a “hider”... so like someone would have to target exactly the person in disguise or the person they chose.

Actually we should get a clarification on that like for sure.

[WestCoastDidds]

The modified hider....So, for kind of a lot of storm light, light weavers can hide behind someone and then make themselves look like that player. Any actions that targets the hider will fail, but anything that happens to who we hide behind will happen to us, too.

[MiX]

The modified hider....So, for kind of a lot of storm light, light weavers can hide behind someone and then make themselves look like that player. Any actions that targets the hider will fail, but anything that happens to who we hide behind will happen to us, too.

And if you are watched, what does the watcher see?

[Rhand]

@Rhand is it clear that hyper was blocked or could Eddie not have been targeted to get no result?

Eddie could have not been targeted.

There is one more person that targeted MiX.

[faust]

I got sick and thus have been less active.

I also don't quite know why we still need all that talking back and forth. We have scum caught in a lie, let's exile them.

[faust]

I am however taking suggestions for who should lose their stormlight.

[LaLight]

The modified hider....So, for kind of a lot of storm light, light weavers can hide behind someone and then make themselves look like that player. Any actions that targets the hider will fail, but anything that happens to who we hide behind will happen to us, too.

what's the point of looking like another player, if any actions targeting you fail?

[LaLight]

wait. if a scum!lightweaver hid behind joth and alignment inverted hypercube, doesn't it explain how joth maybe town?

[faust]

wait. if a scum!lightweaver hid behind joth and alignment inverted hypercube, doesn't it explain how joth maybe town?

Depends on how exactly the power is worded... you weren't targeting joth after all.

It seems like a huge stretch compared to the obvious answer.

[Jimmmmm]

joth re-read #2. Last time I gave him mild scum points for his reasons for voting for chairs and MiX.

vote: chairs

apparently he's going to die anyway so may as well /s

I'm in for a vote: faust actually. Galzria articulated it better than I could, but he is definitely pinging my "scum!faust" radar a bit.

Presumably the articulation was "This is why faust is scum this game. He’s actively engaging in discrediting players and not arguments. His response to me earlier was derision and dismissal, rather than debating points made."

ok, that was a kneejerk before having caught up on the thread. now that I am caught up I am seeing that an EFHW vote would be more useful from me. I have to admit I'm not super-feeling that case. Anyone want to try and convince me real quick?

Possible Mafia-points for this. States potential willingness to lynch EFHW but puts the onus on others to tell him to.

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

Sure, being behind and therefore not having a strong preference is a thing, but sheeping the IC is as good a reason as any to avoid voting for a teammate.

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This vote... if hypercube flips town, jotheonah needs to be looked at toMorrow.

settin up them mislynches?

Maybe it's just me, but I think scum uses this argument more often than they actually try to set up mislynches.

OK, knee-jerk here is that the squire claim is fishy.

We're in a game where everyone is a PR. So what do you claim to make town say "oh wow we should keep this person around"? Well, claiming that you're not only a PR but also an enabler for another PR would be a way to go. And how convenient that it's something that's not in the (very extensive) setup.

Color me skeptical.

This post becomes interesting to me later.

TBH not the most comfortable with either wagon, but what you gonna do?

Possible hedging? Leaving himself the option of defending EFHW if it comes down to it and also not taking responsibility if cube is lynched.

Also willing to hammer here.

Stated willingness to hammer EFHW, but cube had already stated intent.

Cayvie is a weird kill choice all told. Should make for an interesting re-read.

Really psyched about the D1 scum lynch, even if I was totally wrong about EFHW.

I think scum tends to say both of these things more often than Town.

They shouldn't be voting for me because (A) I'm town (B) I have useful powers and (C) I'm generally a pretty cool guy when you get to know me.

The earlier post in which he said "We're in a game where everyone is a PR" seemed to be saying that there's generally no reason not to lynch someone based on their role, so cube had to invent a reason. Now asking not to be lynched because of his role strikes me as strange.

Given that he set out to "see if anyone stands out as trying to stop [the EFHW lynch]", it seems strange that he settled on me, who stated that I found EFHW scummy and was in the first half of the wagon, and based his argument on the theory that maybe I planned to move my vote; and neglected to mention someone like scola who was actively campaigning for the faust lynch. There's also the question of why is on the wagon the first place to look when looking for EFHW defenders?

I don't have all that much to say about this post. The earlier points seem pretty weak. The point on Galz' cube vote is maybe okay. The MiX point is fine but no longer relevant.

This was looking like a reasonable case, but as joth realised, the vote on EFHW kind of kills it (not that we're necessarily just looking for Mafia). (I still think it's unfair to describe going to bed because it's night time as "peacing out" and a "disappearance".)

You should definitely believe that I am a light caller regardless of my alignment. So I am a cop who has a QT with the IC for the rest of the day. I also have sufficient storm light to cop again, even without a high storm. And I’m perfectly willing to let Glooble direct my night actions. So there is a lot of extra downside to lynching me tonight, above and beyond the fact that I’m town.

Vote: LaLight

Again, asking to not be lynched because of his role, despite pointing out that everyone is a PR.


So, joth gets Mafia-points for stating willingness to lynch EFHW but ultimately being against the lynch. Scumpoints for the results of searching for EFHW defenders. Overall I'd put him down as moderate scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

The modified hider....So, for kind of a lot of storm light, light weavers can hide behind someone and then make themselves look like that player. Any actions that targets the hider will fail, but anything that happens to who we hide behind will happen to us, too.

And if you are watched, what does the watcher see?

I don’t know for sure, it sounds like it would fail, since any actions that target the hider fail?

[WestCoastDidds]

The modified hider....So, for kind of a lot of storm light, light weavers can hide behind someone and then make themselves look like that player. Any actions that targets the hider will fail, but anything that happens to who we hide behind will happen to us, too.

what's the point of looking like another player, if any actions targeting you fail?

I’m not the one who can answer this question

[Rhand]

All these Night action scenario's are nuts lol.
This whole game became purely mechanical.

[faust]

All these Night action scenario's are nuts lol.
This whole game became purely mechanical.

I am reserving judgment for when the game is over, but it kind of seems like the setup was not fully thought through.

[MiX]

All these Night action scenario's are nuts lol.
This whole game became purely mechanical.

I am reserving judgment for when the game is over, but it kind of seems like the setup was not fully thought through.

I think the third-parties are playing a huge role in the balance of the game, and since both of them are trying to be town, everything looks...mechanical.

This is really like any other RMM, except everyone's powers are supercharged so we all decided to massclaim. There's nothing that says scum can't take advantage of this.

[Rhand]

I’m not saying it’s townsided per se, it’s just that with the pure focus on mechanics I have no clue how to look for scum outside of them lying about their actions.

[faust]

I’m not saying it’s townsided per se, it’s just that with the pure focus on mechanics I have no clue how to look for scum outside of them lying about their actions.

We've had a scum flip, that is probably a good place to start.

But all in all, we've had a bunch of complicated flip, yet what it boils down to is we caught joth in a lie, so we should lynch him. The fact that he was scummy beforehand is just an added bonus.

[faust]

But all in all, we've had a bunch of complicated flipclaims, yet what it boils down to is we caught joth in a lie, so we should lynch him. The fact that he was scummy beforehand is just an added bonus.

That's what this was meant to say.

[Rhand]

I’m not saying it’s townsided per se, it’s just that with the pure focus on mechanics I have no clue how to look for scum outside of them lying about their actions.

We've had a scum flip, that is probably a good place to start.

But all in all, we've had a bunch of complicated flip, yet what it boils down to is we caught joth in a lie, so we should lynch him. The fact that he was scummy beforehand is just an added bonus.

Kind of tough to look for associations without a decent iso function.
I will see if I can spend some time at my laptop tomorrow.

Vote: Joth

[Dylan32]

Tried catching up, but still don't have a ton of time.  I'm going to trust faust that Joth was caught in a lie until someone explains how he's not.

Vote: Joth

ppe 1

[MiX]

L-?

[Rhand]

I think L-3

[hypercube]

vote: joth

I don't understand why scum!joth would lie, but I also don't understand why scum!LL would either, seems like too risky of a play this early in the game.

[jotheonah]

*sigh*

It doesn’t matter. I’m town and I’m a cop but town is so far ahead right now you can lynch me and still win. At least hem you’ll know I was telling the truth about everything.

[hypercube]

*sigh*

It doesn’t matter. I’m town and I’m a cop but town is so far ahead right now you can lynch me and still win. At least hem you’ll know I was telling the truth about everything.

Well that's a scumslip, cool. So what else should we do with the rest of our day?

[MiX]

*sigh*

It doesn’t matter. I’m town and I’m a cop but town is so far ahead right now you can lynch me and still win. At least hem you’ll know I was telling the truth about everything.

Well that's a scumslip, cool. So what else should we do with the rest of our day?

Where's the scumslip?

[Glooble]

Vote: LaLight

[Glooble]

Someone please explain what about joth’s actions is consistent with a scum narrative? If one of Joth and LaLight is lying, why are we so sure it’s Joth? I just don’t get why Scum!Joth gives me the Alerter.

[MiX]

Someone please explain what about joth’s actions is consistent with a scum narrative? If one of Joth and LaLight is lying, why are we so sure it’s Joth? I just don’t get why Scum!Joth gives me the Alerter.

Well, hmm, joth gives the Alerter to make you see scola target you...while he does something else with you as well. That's my on-the-spot theory anyway.

Why is it LL?

[faust]

Someone please explain what about joth’s actions is consistent with a scum narrative? If one of Joth and LaLight is lying, why are we so sure it’s Joth? I just don’t get why Scum!Joth gives me the Alerter.

Because joth was caught in a lie, and LaLight did not need to share what they did.

He gives it for towncred, clearly. If scum knows you have the Alerter, clearly they can play around that, so it's not like it hurt them.

[faust]

And for a scum narrative I agree with most of the points raised by Jimmmmm.

[faust]

Vote: LaLight

LaLight's play with scolapasta does not make a lot of sense from a scum perspective.

[scolapasta]

MiX's theory is a good one, that it could provide cover for me. It's wrong though.

My other action was to track MiX. (result: no result, which does corroborate his claim)

Both Rhand and LL can confirm this.

I am an Edgecaller.



Here's a question for joth that may have been asked, but I can't remember, why cop faust?

According to the theory, his wagon is good proof that he is town. So why not cop someone else?

I guess the case against joth is that he was trying to get towncred with Gloobie? Except that he would'nt have known he'd have that neighbhood today. So feels risky.

vote: LaLight

[faust]

I guess the case against joth is that he was trying to get towncred with Gloobie? Except that he would'nt have known he'd have that neighbhood today. So feels risky.

Glooble would have still seen joth targeting him if there was no neighborhood.

[hypercube]

*sigh*

It doesn’t matter. I’m town and I’m a cop but town is so far ahead right now you can lynch me and still win. At least hem you’ll know I was telling the truth about everything.

Well that's a scumslip, cool. So what else should we do with the rest of our day?

Where's the scumslip?

"you"

[MiX]

*sigh*

It doesn’t matter. I’m town and I’m a cop but town is so far ahead right now you can lynch me and still win. At least hem you’ll know I was telling the truth about everything.

Well that's a scumslip, cool. So what else should we do with the rest of our day?

Where's the scumslip?

"you"

Ha. Well, he's not voting himself.

MiX's theory is a good one, that it could provide cover for me. It's wrong though.

My other action was to track MiX. (result: no result, which does corroborate his claim)

Both Rhand and LL can confirm this.

I am an Edgecaller.



Here's a question for joth that may have been asked, but I can't remember, why cop faust?

According to the theory, his wagon is good proof that he is town. So why not cop someone else?

I guess the case against joth is that he was trying to get towncred with Gloobie? Except that he would'nt have known he'd have that neighbhood today. So feels risky.

vote: LaLight

Why does everyone make slips?

How do you know it's wrong? Because you're not scum?

It's definitely convenient that you saw me target no one and you said nothing about it. I'll reread D2, but such a result is a third-party slip instantly. The massclaim should be proof enough of this. In fact, I cannot withstand Trackers...I couldn't actually fakeclaim anything in this setup. There's way too many investigative results.

Cop faust as it's the safest thing to tell Glooble! Another reason is he alignment inverted him, so GHS would get "hyper and faust are of the same alignment". Cool, right?

The case against joth is that he's partners with EFHW. The fact that he's in a conflict with LL is just gravy.

[Rhand]

Claims keep trickling in. We should probably just massclaim toMorrow at this point.

I can confirm Scola targeted MiX.

[LaLight]

MiX's theory is a good one, that it could provide cover for me. It's wrong though.

My other action was to track MiX. (result: no result, which does corroborate his claim)

Both Rhand and LL can confirm this.

I am an Edgecaller.



Here's a question for joth that may have been asked, but I can't remember, why cop faust?

According to the theory, his wagon is good proof that he is town. So why not cop someone else?

I guess the case against joth is that he was trying to get towncred with Gloobie? Except that he would'nt have known he'd have that neighbhood today. So feels risky.

vote: LaLight

I confirm, that scola did Tracker and Inventor actions.

[Glooble]

If Joth is scum, hypercube’s probably also scum, right? Jonah’s not lying about being a lightweaver, since he knew their order power. So wombat could he have been targeting hyper with other than an alignment inverter?

[Dylan32]

If Joth is scum, hypercube’s probably also scum, right? Jonah’s not lying about being a lightweaver, since he knew their order power. So wombat could he have been targeting hyper with other than an alignment inverter?

I think it would be one of Faust and cube are scum instead, because the result was those two have the same alignment, but it could be either way, so if cube was flipped we know they are opposite. Wasn't Joth the one with the town result on Faust? On mobile or I'd go look before posting this.

[scolapasta]

yes, Joth claimed he copped faust and got a town result.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I think I understand most of what's going on with the claims.

My evidence supports LaLight's claim (that joth targeted cube) over joth's claim (that he targeted faust).

So either joth is lying or he was redirected. If he's Town then his Town result should be taken to be on cube.

[Glooble]

I might be ready to exile joth now.

[Glooble]

I think if he was town he would be trying harder to convince me in our QT.

[scolapasta]

So, joth, then cube tomorrow?

vote: joth

L-2(?)

[scolapasta]

It's definitely convenient that you saw me target no one and you said nothing about it. I'll reread D2, but such a result is a third-party slip instantly. The massclaim should be proof enough of this. In fact, I cannot withstand Trackers...I couldn't actually fakeclaim anything in this setup. There's way too many investigative results.

Cop faust as it's the safest thing to tell Glooble! Another reason is he alignment inverted him, so GHS would get "hyper and faust are of the same alignment". Cool, right?

The case against joth is that he's partners with EFHW. The fact that he's in a conflict with LL is just gravy.

I didn't say anything because I still wanted to keep my role still hidden at the time.

And yeah, that's my thinking on joth claiming copping faust. But I would like to hear his reason for why he did it.

[jotheonah]

I copped faust because (1) he’s a very good player who I have a hard time reading, (2) his info was going to tell us a lot because of the hyper connection and (3) knowing there were potentially a lot of investigative roles I was trying to avoid overlap by picking someone less obvious.

[MiX]

Vote: joth

Exiled!

Good night everyone!

[jotheonah]

I think if he was town he would be trying harder to convince me in our QT.

I thought you were the one person I didn’t have to convince.

[jotheonah]

Vote: joth

Exiled!

Good night everyone!

I think I’m still at L-1?

[WestCoastDidds]

Intent to hammer Joth in the morning.

[MiX]

Vote Count 2.Dylan

hypercube (2): Uncleeurope, Swowl
GreatHallScout (3): hypercube, scolapasta, Rhand
jotheonah (4): faust, Galzria, chairs, LaLight
WestCoastDidds (1): Glooble
LaLight (1): Jotheonah

Not Voting (5): Dylan32, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, MiX

Assuming this was correct...

Vote: Joth

Vote: Joth

vote: joth

vote: joth

Vote: joth

You're dead!

[Glooble]

I hope everyone else was right and I was wrong.  It if Joth does flip town, we probably go for LaLight tomorrow? And if Joth flips scum we should go for cube.

[jotheonah]

Welp, I was town. Good job guys. Exile LaLight tomorrow.

[Greathallscout]

@scolapasta why not give an alerter or the good painrail thing to glooble? why a qt? seems odd to me.

Also, I assume you meant elsecaller.

[Greathallscout]

MiX's theory is a good one, that it could provide cover for me. It's wrong though.

My other action was to track MiX. (result: no result, which does corroborate his claim)

Both Rhand and LL can confirm this.

I am an Edgecaller.



Here's a question for joth that may have been asked, but I can't remember, why cop faust?

According to the theory, his wagon is good proof that he is town. So why not cop someone else?

I guess the case against joth is that he was trying to get towncred with Gloobie? Except that he would'nt have known he'd have that neighbhood today. So feels risky.

vote: LaLight

I confirm, that scola did Tracker and Inventor actions.

Did you see who they targeted?

[scolapasta]

@scolapasta why not give an alerter or the good painrail thing to glooble? why a qt? seems odd to me.

Also, I assume you meant elsecaller.

Yes, I meant Elsecaller. I didn't do the good painrail because docsot is stronger and should have saved him.

Alerter also makes sense, but I thought having a QT to talk with someone who I thought was town for coordination was better.

[Greathallscout]

wait. if a scum!lightweaver hid behind joth and alignment inverted hypercube, doesn't it explain how joth maybe town?

From the way it sounds I would be surprised that someone would have enough starlight for that. 30 for inverting and "a lot" for the mod-hider.

[Greathallscout]

Okay, I think I understand most of what's going on with the claims.

My evidence supports LaLight's claim (that joth targeted cube) over joth's claim (that he targeted faust).

So either joth is lying or he was redirected. If he's Town then his Town result should be taken to be on cube.

can you explain why it should be on cube?

[Greathallscout]

Hot take: there are >=5 scum in this game.

are there?

[Jimmmmm]

can you explain why it should be on cube?

If joth is telling the truth it seems that his investigation was redirected from faust to cube.

[Greathallscout]

Okay, I think I understand most of what's going on with the claims.

My evidence supports LaLight's claim (that joth targeted cube) over joth's claim (that he targeted faust).

So either joth is lying or he was redirected. If he's Town then his Town result should be taken to be on cube.

can you explain why it should be on cube?

to clarify my question- how would redirecting make sense with glooble getting an alerter and with Lalight not seeing the redirector target cube?

ppe

[Jimmmmm]

to clarify my question- how would redirecting make sense with glooble getting an alerter and with Lalight not seeing the redirector target cube?

Okay, maybe it doesn't.

[Greathallscout]

to clarify my question- how would redirecting make sense with glooble getting an alerter and with Lalight not seeing the redirector target cube?

Okay, maybe it doesn't.

are you willing to state for the record that you watched cube?

[Jimmmmm]

to clarify my question- how would redirecting make sense with glooble getting an alerter and with Lalight not seeing the redirector target cube?

Okay, maybe it doesn't.

are you willing to state for the record that you watched cube?

No.

[Greathallscout]

I hope everyone else was right and I was wrong.  It if Joth does flip town, we probably go for LaLight tomorrow? And if Joth flips scum we should go for cube.

why cube over Faust?

[2.71828.....]

You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completely.

Final Vote Count

hypercube (2): Uncleeurope, Swowl
jotheonah (9): faust, Galzria, chairs, LaLight, Rhand, Dylan32, hypercube, scolapasta, MiX
LaLight (2): jotheonah, Glooble

Not Voting (3): GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Twilight starts now and will last 6 hours or until all players have checked in, whichever comes first. Any post in the main game thread or a qt constitutes a check-in.

[faust]

I hope everyone else was right and I was wrong.  It if Joth does flip town, we probably go for LaLight tomorrow? And if Joth flips scum we should go for cube.

why cube over Faust?

Because joth alignment inverting cube makes more sense if he's scum.

[chairs]

I understand but hate the intentional Twilight

Here's hoping we nailed it again.

[Rhand]

Okay, I think I understand most of what's going on with the claims.

My evidence supports LaLight's claim (that joth targeted cube) over joth's claim (that he targeted faust).

So either joth is lying or he was redirected. If he's Town then his Town result should be taken to be on cube.

can you explain why it should be on cube?

to clarify my question- how would redirecting make sense with glooble getting an alerter and with Lalight not seeing the redirector target cube?

ppe

Does a cube/faust busdrive work in the claims?

[faust]

Okay, I think I understand most of what's going on with the claims.

My evidence supports LaLight's claim (that joth targeted cube) over joth's claim (that he targeted faust).

So either joth is lying or he was redirected. If he's Town then his Town result should be taken to be on cube.

can you explain why it should be on cube?

to clarify my question- how would redirecting make sense with glooble getting an alerter and with Lalight not seeing the redirector target cube?

ppe

Does a cube/faust busdrive work in the claims?

Only if it was GHS. He's the only one to have targeted both of us.

[faust]

Only if it was GHS. He's the only one to have targeted both of us.

With more thinking, it doesn't really work. it would mean that joth would have been redirected to hypercube, sure, but also LaLight would have been redirected to me, so it would still not be possible for LaLight to see joth.

[faust]

It could work if someone also Strengthened either joth or LaLight. But that seems fairly unlikely.

[LaLight]

MiX's theory is a good one, that it could provide cover for me. It's wrong though.

My other action was to track MiX. (result: no result, which does corroborate his claim)

Both Rhand and LL can confirm this.

I am an Edgecaller.



Here's a question for joth that may have been asked, but I can't remember, why cop faust?

According to the theory, his wagon is good proof that he is town. So why not cop someone else?

I guess the case against joth is that he was trying to get towncred with Gloobie? Except that he would'nt have known he'd have that neighbhood today. So feels risky.

vote: LaLight

I confirm, that scola did Tracker and Inventor actions.

Did you see who they targeted?

no. Follower picks a person and just see what actions they performed

[MiX]

See I was right. I even asked for L-?, you could've seen that coming.

Joth, how many spheres of each type did you start with?

[Greathallscout]

I hope everyone else was right and I was wrong.  It if Joth does flip town, we probably go for LaLight tomorrow? And if Joth flips scum we should go for cube.

why cube over Faust?

Because joth alignment inverting cube makes more sense if he's scum.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that scum would invert a scum player over inverting a town player? I don't see why that would be true.

[Greathallscout]

It could work if someone also Strengthened either joth or LaLight. But that seems fairly unlikely.

What do you mean?

[MiX]

I hope everyone else was right and I was wrong.  It if Joth does flip town, we probably go for LaLight tomorrow? And if Joth flips scum we should go for cube.

why cube over Faust?

Because joth alignment inverting cube makes more sense if he's scum.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that scum would invert a scum player over inverting a town player? I don't see why that would be true.

Really? Godfather's much better than framer because it's really hard to know who's getting copped.

[faust]

I hope everyone else was right and I was wrong.  It if Joth does flip town, we probably go for LaLight tomorrow? And if Joth flips scum we should go for cube.

why cube over Faust?

Because joth alignment inverting cube makes more sense if he's scum.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that scum would invert a scum player over inverting a town player? I don't see why that would be true.

Because it's more important for scum to go undetected than it is for them to frame a town player.

[faust]

It could work if someone also Strengthened either joth or LaLight. But that seems fairly unlikely.

What do you mean?

I mean the power from the Tension surge.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning friends!

Twilight in the morning is a weird thing...and tonight is likely not nearly as interesting because we’re all broke! Ha! But happy Sunday! Happy Father’s Day! Happy summer solstice!

[Greathallscout]

It could work if someone also Strengthened either joth or LaLight. But that seems fairly unlikely.

What do you mean?

I mean the power from the Tension surge.

I don't see a scenario where that would explain what happened.

[faust]

It could work if someone also Strengthened either joth or LaLight. But that seems fairly unlikely.

What do you mean?

I mean the power from the Tension surge.

I don't see a scenario where that would explain what happened.

Ah, I assumed Strengthening also protects against redirection. Apparently it doesn't... so no, that wouldn't explain it.

[Greathallscout]

If Player A uses the mod-hider order power to hide behind Player B and then Player C cops Player B. What result would they get?

[Greathallscout]

The Lightweaver Order special power might be relavent here. It’s not just a hider, it’s a modified hider. We can disguise ourselves as another player and attempts to target us target the player we disguise ourselves instead.

The modified hider....So, for kind of a lot of storm light, light weavers can hide behind someone and then make themselves look like that player. Any actions that targets the hider will fail, but anything that happens to who we hide behind will happen to us, too.

which is correct?

[jotheonah]

See I was right. I even asked for L-?, you could've seen that coming.

Joth, how many spheres of each type did you start with?

I’ll tell you if you convince town to use their governor power to save me.

[jotheonah]

The Lightweaver Order special power might be relavent here. It’s not just a hider, it’s a modified hider. We can disguise ourselves as another player and attempts to target us target the player we disguise ourselves instead.

The modified hider....So, for kind of a lot of storm light, light weavers can hide behind someone and then make themselves look like that player. Any actions that targets the hider will fail, but anything that happens to who we hide behind will happen to us, too.

which is correct?

Didds. Sorry I screwed up trying to paraphrase.

[Greathallscout]

@joth

If Player A uses the mod-hider order power to hide behind Player B and then Player C cops Player B. What result would they get?

[faust]

Look, joth just claimed scum, it's pointless to ask him questions.

[Greathallscout]

Look, joth just claimed scum, it's pointless to ask him questions.

he answered my other question after he claimed scum

[Greathallscout]

I hope everyone else was right and I was wrong.  It if Joth does flip town, we probably go for LaLight tomorrow? And if Joth flips scum we should go for cube.

why cube over Faust?

Because joth alignment inverting cube makes more sense if he's scum.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that scum would invert a scum player over inverting a town player? I don't see why that would be true.

Because it's more important for scum to go undetected than it is for them to frame a town player.

Could be.

I do think with modified cop it also incentifies scum to want to make a town look scum. Mod cop could get a "non-aligned" result and then they could get 2 town lynches in a row.

[WestCoastDidds]

@joth

If Player A uses the mod-hider order power to hide behind Player B and then Player C cops Player B. What result would they get?

As I understand it, Player C would get the player B results. The hider doesn’t do anything to player B.

But if A was copped, they would return player B results to Player C.

[jotheonah]

Ok, we’ll if I’m doing this I’m doing this. Was going to hold out in case I could get governored, but I think it’s more important to share my info with my partners.

Here’s what I know beyond what’s already public knowledge: chairs is some kind of doctor and targeted Glooble.

Here’s what I suspect: we have an additional partner not in our QT and you have the evidence to figure out who they are, or at least narrow it down to two.

Here’s what else I strongly suspect: MiX is a serial killer and he’s lying about being whatever he says he is.

Being scum in a game with 5,000 cops is surprisingly not fun and I don’t recommend it. Good luck pals!

[scolapasta]

We got Joth. Nicely done, sorry for my original doubt, LL.

So chairs is either doctor or scum.

I asked last twilight and was told it was a bad idea, but I'll check again, now that we have a lot more info on powers.

Should we try to coordinate any night actions? I.e. inventors, cops, etc. Or is it better to still keep scum guessing?

[Greathallscout]

So chairs is either doctor or scum.

why?

[faust]

So chairs is either doctor or scum.

Well, chairs has already claimed, so this is not new info.

Should we try to coordinate any night actions? I.e. inventors, cops, etc. Or is it better to still keep scum guessing?

Coordinating night actions means we would need to reveal how much Stormlight we have left and who of us even can do actions... I don't think that's ideal.

[faust]

I should however point out that I drained Galzria. So he definitely won't have any Stormlight left.

[faust]

&hypercube just claimed scum in our QT. For anyone who was stuill doubting that.

[Greathallscout]

&hypercube just claimed scum in our QT. For anyone who was stuill doubting that.

Did he explain why he did that?

[Galzria]

I should however point out that I drained Galzria. So he definitely won't have any Stormlight left.

Knew you would. That’s cool though. Hurts Town in the least possible way.

Might as well claim though.

I’m an Edgedancer. Only PR I used last night was Doctor, and on faust.

It should be noted that I found it rather odd today that faust suggested MiX might’ve Nexus’ed N1 after MiX claimed earlier in the day that his intended fakeclaim was going to be Edgedancer: My special ability is Nexus.

[Galzria]

I should however point out that I drained Galzria. So he definitely won't have any Stormlight left.

Knew you would. That’s cool though. Hurts Town in the least possible way.

Might as well claim though.

I’m an Edgedancer. Only PR I used last night was Doctor, and on faust.

It should be noted that I found it rather odd today that faust suggested MiX might’ve Nexus’ed N1 after MiX claimed earlier in the day that his intended fakeclaim was going to be Edgedancer: My special ability is Nexus.

Odd does not necessarily mean scummy here. Just that the suggestion caught my attention.

[chairs]

So uh, are we just going to off Hypercube and call it a game?

[hypercube]

&hypercube just claimed scum in our QT. For anyone who was stuill doubting that.

Did he explain why he did that?

Kind of pointless not to now. If there's an argument that I'm not scum I don't know what it is.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind all third parties in this game that if you're not with us, you're against us.

Goodnight everyone, enjoy this pretty picture.

[faust]

So uh, are we just going to off Hypercube and call it a game?

I mean, if the scum team is only three people then uh I really feel sorry for them. I expect there are at least 4.

[Greathallscout]

why would hyper vote joth and then "give up" saying that there is no way he can be town once joth flips scum?

[Galzria]

Seems like Rhand and MiX are very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

Seems like hypercube is very certain EFHW is scum all of a sudden.

Lol

[faust]

why would hyper vote joth and then "give up" saying that there is no way he can be town once joth flips scum?

Are you trying to argue that hyper is lying about being scum?

[Galzria]

Past Cube - Didds & Swowl top my list for scum. Tier down is GHS, Jimmmmm & Chairs. After that maybe Rhand & Dylan. Everyone else strikes me as Town or what they’ve claimed (3rd party).

[scolapasta]

So chairs is either doctor or scum.

why?

I guess I assumed here that either joth is trying to give chairs towncred (or scum) or if not, legit tell partners some info.

[hypercube]

why would hyper vote joth and then "give up" saying that there is no way he can be town once joth flips scum?

I thought I could claim joth gave me the thing that makes me weak. By the time I remembered how the rules work, he was already lynched. Sorry both, and sorry EFHW, I've really botched this one.

[2.71828.....]

Apologize for the delay, had a post written up then father's day phone calls happened, my computer randomly restarted losing the post,  and now phone only because my 6-month old HAS to be held right now.

Jotheonah eyes went dark. Never to see the light of day again.

He was a mafia lightweaver.

N2 starts now and lasts 48 hours.

Night actions are due in 36 hours.

Thread locked

[2.71828.....]

forgot to include in the flip:


Jotheonah was house aladar

[2.71828.....]

Tonight, you may spend any number of spheres to bid for  a shardplate. Whoever is the highest bidder will receive one layer of protection from a kill at night.

Remember: These spheres will be spent and you will lose them (rather than just using the Stormlight within them). If you do not win the bid, you will still lose your spheres! And finally, remember that infused spheres are worth more than dun!

[mail-mi]

Reminder: Night Actions are due in approximately 2 hours.

[mail-mi]

The death this morning did not surprise mail-mi. Even after executing 2 traitors to the Knights Radiant, there were still followers of Odium among them.

WestCoastDidds has died! She was a Town Lightweaver, of House Aladar.

Day 3 starts now!

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (16): Dylan32, LaLight, faust, MiX, hypercube, scolapasta, Swowl, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Galzria, GreatHallScout, chairs, Glooble, Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 lasts until 10:00AM FT on June 30, 2020.

Thread unlocked!

[mail-mi]

The stormwardens warn of a highstorm coming today! Be prepared to shelter yourselves when you see the stormwall!

[faust]

Didds, huh? Weird.

So, we wait for the highstorm and then lynch hypercube?

Of course, we could keep him alive if we want me to keep my powers.

[MiX]

Dammit! Why Didds? Why cayvie? Do they wanna suck out the fun in this game?

Who roleblocked me this night?

As dumb as it is for me to say it, we should lynch hypercube as fast as possible so I can't change alignments.

Vote: hypercube

[Greathallscout]

why would hyper vote joth and then "give up" saying that there is no way he can be town once joth flips scum?

Are you trying to argue that hyper is lying about being scum?

I think it is weird that scum would "give up" in that way and am wondering if scum is planning something interesting.

[Greathallscout]

Dammit! Why Didds? Why cayvie? Do they wanna suck out the fun in this game?

Who roleblocked me this night?

As dumb as it is for me to say it, we should lynch hypercube as fast as possible so I can't change alignments.

Vote: hypercube

do you know you were roleBLOCKED? There are a lot of powers that can cause actions to fail.

[Glooble]

Gonna be a lonely highstorm for house Aladar.

[MiX]

At this point we should have a third-party massclaim: I don't believe there can be any third-party that can win with town that don't want to claim with 3 scum claimed (and 2 dead).

Dammit! Why Didds? Why cayvie? Do they wanna suck out the fun in this game?

Who roleblocked me this night?

As dumb as it is for me to say it, we should lynch hypercube as fast as possible so I can't change alignments.

Vote: hypercube

do you know you were roleBLOCKED? There are a lot of powers that can cause actions to fail.

No, but I highly suspect that's what happened.

Gonna be a lonely highstorm for house Aladar.

How many died of that house? 3?

[Greathallscout]

No, but I highly suspect that's what happened.

Why?

[scolapasta]

I'm pretty sure I was blocked. I got no results on my tracking (of a claimed Knight).

[MiX]

No, but I highly suspect that's what happened.

Why?

Because I could be lying...? Also because the scum kill wasn't blocked.

[scolapasta]

Agree (obv) to vote for cube, but think we should wait for the highstorm, so it reaches us during the day.

[Greathallscout]

I'm pretty sure I was blocked. I got no results on my tracking (of a claimed Knight).

Um...maybe they didn't take actions?

[MiX]

Agree (obv) to vote for cube, but think we should wait for the highstorm, so it reaches us during the day.

Oh, right, I forgot we can't skip them...

Unvote

[scolapasta]

It's possible.. but it would be surprising, unless they were out of stormlight.

[Greathallscout]

No, but I highly suspect that's what happened.

Why?

Because I could be lying...? Also because the scum kill wasn't blocked.

I don't understand what you meant by "Because I could be lying...?" And why would the scum kill change anything?

[MiX]

No, but I highly suspect that's what happened.

Why?

Because I could be lying...? Also because the scum kill wasn't blocked.

I don't understand what you meant by "Because I could be lying...?" And why would the scum kill change anything?

Good!

Don't expect to get meaningful things out of me. I'm just trying to cover for my future fakeclaim in case I need to.

[Greathallscout]

It's possible.. but it would be surprising, unless they were out of stormlight.

Do you think that is surprising? I don't. Some players I think it would be unlikely. But not all.

[Greathallscout]

I'm pretty sure I was blocked. I got no results on my tracking (of a claimed Knight).

Also, I'll ask you the same question I asked mix- Do you have reason to think you were roleBLOCKED. The word "block" is probably going to confuse me.

[scolapasta]

Not specifically. e.g.  I could have also been redirected to MiX, I think.

[Greathallscout]

Not specifically. e.g.  I could have also been redirected to MiX, I think.

He claims to have targeted someone...

[Greathallscout]

Not specifically. e.g.  I could have also been redirected to MiX, I think.

And what about the person you targeted being "stopped". There are a lot of scenarios and I feel it is anti town to state a conclusion of what happened if you don't have evidence for that specific scenario.

[scolapasta]

Not specifically. e.g.  I could have also been redirected to MiX, I think.

He claims to have targeted someone...

When did he claim that??

(but you are right there are lots of things that could have happened... I was too quick to jump on "I was roleblocked". I disagree that trying to figure out what happened is antitown)

[Greathallscout]

Not specifically. e.g.  I could have also been redirected to MiX, I think.

He claims to have targeted someone...

When did he claim that??

I guess "claim" was too strong. He said it was "highly likely"(meaning not sure) that he was blocked. Putting aside other powers that we don't know about. I couldn't think of an option where he didn't target someone. But to be honest I didn't think it through so much and it was an assumption of mine.

[MiX]

Not specifically. e.g.  I could have also been redirected to MiX, I think.

He claims to have targeted someone...

When did he claim that??

I guess "claim" was too strong. He said it was "highly likely"(meaning not sure) that he was blocked. Putting aside other powers that we don't know about. I couldn't think of an option where he didn't target someone. But to be honest I didn't think it through so much and it was an assumption of mine.

I'm not claiming to suddenly have powers, by the way. I'm just covering for my future fakeclaim.

[scolapasta]

Not specifically. e.g.  I could have also been redirected to MiX, I think.

He claims to have targeted someone...

When did he claim that??

I guess "claim" was too strong. He said it was "highly likely"(meaning not sure) that he was blocked. Putting aside other powers that we don't know about. I couldn't think of an option where he didn't target someone. But to be honest I didn't think it through so much and it was an assumption of mine.

Oh, duh. That makes sense.

Though I thought he had also claimed no powers until he changes form. (too many pages to track when now)

MiX, what gives?

[LaLight]

faust, did anything happen to you?

[faust]

faust, did anything happen to you?

No, nothing is happening here.

[faust]

We can pass the time we have by doing a massclaim. All actions, number of spheres, everything! All we need to do is weed out one or two more scum, and the best way to do that is to coordinate.

[LaLight]

I have my watcher and follower results, but I want to sit on them for the time being.

[LaLight]

I am in for massclaim, but I want to claim close to last.

[LaLight]

faust, did anything happen to you?

No, nothing is happening here.

oh I guess I know what happened there lol

[Glooble]

As IC, should I set the claim order?

[faust]

As IC, should I set the claim order?

Yes, I believe that's in your job description!

[Glooble]

As IC, should I set the claim order?

Yes, I believe that's in your job description!

K, I'll get on that.

[scolapasta]

I've claimed most things already, so I'm in for the mass claim, once I have my spot.

[Glooble]

Okay, before I set an order, is this accurate?

Already claimed order:
faust
hypercube
Dylan32
Rhand

Partially claimed (we know one surge they have access to:)
scolapasta
LaLight
chairs (outed)
GreatHallScout

Nothing:
Swowl
Galzria
Jimmmmm

Third Party:
MiX
Uncle

IC (order unknown, except to me):
Glooble

[scolapasta]

I claimed Order - Elsecaller. (but not special order power)

In my notes, I have order for Lalight and chairs*. Don't remember how I got info (probably from powers they claimed?)

* and this was before joth's confession post

[MiX]

chairs claimed Truthwatcher IIRC. LL claimed skybreaker??

[Greathallscout]

lalight claimed SB, chairs TW ,Galzria claimed ED .

ppe

[Glooble]

So this?:

Already claimed order:
faust
hypercube
Dylan32
Rhand
LaLight
chairs
Galzria

Partially claimed (we know one surge they have access to:)
scolapasta
GreatHallScout

Nothing:
Swowl
Jimmmmm

Third Party:
MiX
Uncle

IC (order unknown, except to me):
Glooble

[Glooble]

Not much of a massclaim is it?

I think the order should be:

Swowl
Jimmmm
GreatHallScout
scolapasta

Then I will claim if it seems useful for me to do so.

[MiX]

Well, don't we need an order to claim the N2 actions?

[Greathallscout]

Also order powers. And faust has an unknown power.

[scolapasta]

I claimed Order - Elsecaller. (but not special order power)

Also are we claiming orbs? If so, then everyone should go on the list?

And the 3rd parties - have they claimed any powers?

MiX, can you answer why you think you were roleblocked if you don't have any powers?

[MiX]

I claimed Order - Elsecaller. (but not special order power)

Also are we claiming orbs? If so, then everyone should go on the list?

And the 3rd parties - have they claimed any powers?

MiX, can you answer why you think you were roleblocked if you don't have any powers?

Because scum thinks I'm SK.

[Galzria]

Yeah, I claimed everything except for starting Orbs at the end of D2 during Twilight.

[scolapasta]

I claimed Order - Elsecaller. (but not special order power)

Also are we claiming orbs? If so, then everyone should go on the list?

And the 3rd parties - have they claimed any powers?

MiX, can you answer why you think you were roleblocked if you don't have any powers?

Because scum thinks I'm SK.

OK, now I get it. You have no evidence you were roleblocked, you just assumed they would, thinking your SK.

Seems off to me.

[MiX]

I am off. Chaos! Weeeeee!

I just wanted claims to get rolling. I thought Rhand was here too, that was sorta to him more than anything.

[Swowl]

Claim time? Or are we doing a N2 order?
Claim everything or just...?

[faust]

Not much of a massclaim is it?

I think the order should be:

Swowl
Jimmmm
GreatHallScout
scolapasta

Then I will claim if it seems useful for me to do so.

Yeah we need N2 actions, number of dun spheres, number of infused spheres, house.

[Glooble]

Okay, give me a sec and I'll set an order for everybody.

[Glooble]

hypercube
Swowl
Jimmmm
GreatHallScout
scolapasta
Rhand
Galzria
Dylan32
LaLight
chairs
faust
Glooble

[MiX]

hypercube won't claim.

Swowl, you're next!

[Glooble]

Wait, so he actually told faust he was scum in their QT?

I don't understand why he would do that...

[MiX]

Wait, so he actually told faust he was scum in their QT?

I don't understand why he would do that...

Did hypercube post today?

[MiX]

&hypercube just claimed scum in our QT. For anyone who was stuill doubting that.

Did he explain why he did that?

Kind of pointless not to now. If there's an argument that I'm not scum I don't know what it is.

[Swowl]

&hypercube just claimed scum in our QT. For anyone who was stuill doubting that.

Did he explain why he did that?

Kind of pointless not to now. If there's an argument that I'm not scum I don't know what it is.

right I think that is what is suspicious about it though... I mean that just wasn't true at the time. I mean it is now... but to just claim is weird.

[Swowl]

I will wait for Cube to check in or I guess until Glooble says go

[Galzria]

I’ll be interested to hear what Dylan did last night given MiX & Cube are both alive still.

[Glooble]

GO ahead, Swowl.

[Swowl]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

[scolapasta]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

Hmm...

[Swowl]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

Hmm...

pasta for your thoughts?

[MiX]

Can I dayvig Swowl for Ascetic-ing themselves?

[Galzria]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

Hmm...

Hmm...

[faust]

Yeah I'd like to hear a reasoning for that Asceticising.

[faust]

Also, I take it you did not not bid on anything?

[faust]

Also, I take it you did not not bid on anything?

Oh yeah you already said, sorry.

[Galzria]

Also, I take it you did not not bid on anything?

He said he didn't bid on either item

[scolapasta]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

Hmm...

pasta for your thoughts?

Trying to figure out which part of your claim is false and why you would lie?

[Swowl]

Yeah I'd like to hear a reasoning for that Asceticising.

honestly not sure why you wouldn't. I mean, I knew I would get shit for it when claiming comes. But reasoning is this:

All of my powers outside of Doctoring blow. The utility they hold for pro-town plays is like, non-existent.
I can Ninja... dumb.
I can make someone lynchproof... which I fail to see how, as I don't have the ability to cop anyone, that would ever come into play.
And my Nexus power, without giving anything away... let's just say I do not see it being pro town either.

On the other hand. Doctoring, super pro town. And Acetic protects me from being Drained, Blocked, Alignment Switched, with the kicker of if skum ever tried to tie me to a claim I could peg them on the spot if it was like anything but Watcher.

Ultimately though, it came down to cost efficiency and the simple fact that it meant nothing could mess with my Doctor shots. Cost efficiency is referring to the fact you get 2 for 1 when you use it.

Ya'll can think it was dumb, but I thought it was well worth the SL cost to use it.

PPE3

[Galzria]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

If you started with 75 infused spheres and have used 60, how is it that you have 30 now?

[Galzria]

Claim: I did not start the game with any Dun Spheres

[scolapasta]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

If you started with 75 infused spheres and have used 60, how is it that you have 30 now?

Ding, ding, ding!

I was hoping to wait to see what he'd say to my accusations before saying why, but there it is.

[MiX]

Oh my, I completely missed that.

Good question.

[Galzria]

It’s worth pointing out that a scum!Edgedancer could make Hyper lynch-proof today for 30 Spheres.

[hypercube]

Hey, I'm still alive, sweet. Did you know this is the first time I've made it to D3 without being dead or on the guillotine? I've decided to celebrate everyone's mercy by being as pro-town as I can be.

[MiX]

Hey, I'm still alive, sweet. Did you know this is the first time I've made it to D3 without being dead or on the guillotine? I've decided to celebrate everyone's mercy by being as pro-town as I can be.

Full claim.

[hypercube]

Hey, I'm still alive, sweet. Did you know this is the first time I've made it to D3 without being dead or on the guillotine? I've decided to celebrate everyone's mercy by being as pro-town as I can be.

Full claim.

I regret to inform you that "as pro-town as I can be" is not actually very pro-town.

[Swowl]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

If you started with 75 infused spheres and have used 60, how is it that you have 30 now?

Ding, ding, ding!

I was hoping to wait to see what he'd say to my accusations before saying why, but there it is.

mistake sorry. I was doing the math while I typed. The correct amount as reflected in my QT actually says 15 infused and 80 dun.

PPE

[MiX]

Hey, I'm still alive, sweet. Did you know this is the first time I've made it to D3 without being dead or on the guillotine? I've decided to celebrate everyone's mercy by being as pro-town as I can be.

Full claim.

I regret to inform you that "as pro-town as I can be" is not actually very pro-town.

Ah ok so you're in my group.

Hey, what do you think of me?

Also is it okay with town that I talk to hypercube? I think it's fun and may be helpful to me.

[Greathallscout]

Also is it okay with town that I talk to hypercube? I think it's fun and may be helpful to me.

Sure.

Vote: Mix

[MiX]

Also is it okay with town that I talk to hypercube? I think it's fun and may be helpful to me.

Sure.

Vote: Mix

You're giving me mixed signals!

[Swowl]

Also is it okay with town that I talk to hypercube? I think it's fun and may be helpful to me.

Sure.

Vote: Mix

You're giving me mixed signals!

pun intended I hope?

[hypercube]

Hey, I'm still alive, sweet. Did you know this is the first time I've made it to D3 without being dead or on the guillotine? I've decided to celebrate everyone's mercy by being as pro-town as I can be.

Full claim.

I regret to inform you that "as pro-town as I can be" is not actually very pro-town.

Ah ok so you're in my group.

Hey, what do you think of me?

Also is it okay with town that I talk to hypercube? I think it's fun and may be helpful to me.

You seem like a pretty cool guy.

[Swowl]

Hey, I'm still alive, sweet. Did you know this is the first time I've made it to D3 without being dead or on the guillotine? I've decided to celebrate everyone's mercy by being as pro-town as I can be.

Full claim.

I regret to inform you that "as pro-town as I can be" is not actually very pro-town.

Ah ok so you're in my group.

Hey, what do you think of me?

Also is it okay with town that I talk to hypercube? I think it's fun and may be helpful to me.

You seem like a pretty cool guy.

hows abouts you do the claimy claim first so we can keep the ball rolling then you can go back to mixing it up with mix. please

[scolapasta]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

If you started with 75 infused spheres and have used 60, how is it that you have 30 now?

Ding, ding, ding!

I was hoping to wait to see what he'd say to my accusations before saying why, but there it is.

mistake sorry. I was doing the math while I typed. The correct amount as reflected in my QT actually says 15 infused and 80 dun.

PPE

Well, that's what you would say either way, no? What's nexus and it's cost?

[MiX]

pun intended I hope?

Giving room for someone else to finish the joke, yes.

You seem like a pretty cool guy.

Aww, thanks, so do you.

Why did you surrender yesterday and not today?

[Swowl]

I am an Edgedancer. My house is Kholin.
I started with 75 Infused Spheres and 20 Dun Spheres.

Night 1 I used Acetic on self (30) and Doctored faust (15).
Night 2 I Doctored Chairs (15).
I have not bid for either of the 2 items/powers/whatever.

I currently have 30 Infused Spheres and 65 Dun Spheres.

I can confirm what Galz said yesterday that the SP of Edgedancer is called Nexus. Am i supposed to claim what it does at this point? or how much it costs?

If you started with 75 infused spheres and have used 60, how is it that you have 30 now?

Ding, ding, ding!

I was hoping to wait to see what he'd say to my accusations before saying why, but there it is.

mistake sorry. I was doing the math while I typed. The correct amount as reflected in my QT actually says 15 infused and 80 dun.

PPE

Well, that's what you would say either way, no? What's nexus and it's cost?

I mean... if your gonna use that logic i would say that if i were lying i would of been way more careful as to make sure i didn’t have an error in my claim...

Are we doing SP claims. I don’t see a reason why not i just want to verify before i do. I was thinking we would wait until everyone had claimed their order just to potentially limit random fake claims.

[hypercube]

Hey, I'm still alive, sweet. Did you know this is the first time I've made it to D3 without being dead or on the guillotine? I've decided to celebrate everyone's mercy by being as pro-town as I can be.

Full claim.

I regret to inform you that "as pro-town as I can be" is not actually very pro-town.

Ah ok so you're in my group.

Hey, what do you think of me?

Also is it okay with town that I talk to hypercube? I think it's fun and may be helpful to me.

You seem like a pretty cool guy.

hows abouts you do the claimy claim first so we can keep the ball rolling then you can go back to mixing it up with mix. please

What's the penalty for noncompliance, dayvigging?

[MiX]

What's the penalty for noncompliance, dayvigging?

A frowny face.

[hypercube]

pun intended I hope?

Giving room for someone else to finish the joke, yes.

You seem like a pretty cool guy.

Aww, thanks, so do you.

Why did you surrender yesterday and not today?

My alignment was pretty obvious once joth's was known.

What's the penalty for noncompliance, dayvigging?

A frowny face.

nooooooo

[MiX]

pun intended I hope?

Giving room for someone else to finish the joke, yes.

You seem like a pretty cool guy.

Aww, thanks, so do you.

Why did you surrender yesterday and not today?

My alignment was pretty obvious once joth's was known.

Maybe you think that, but I don't think it was obvious. Maaaaaaybe it was. But even so, why risk getting vigged?

[hypercube]

pun intended I hope?

Giving room for someone else to finish the joke, yes.

You seem like a pretty cool guy.

Aww, thanks, so do you.

Why did you surrender yesterday and not today?

My alignment was pretty obvious once joth's was known.

Maybe you think that, but I don't think it was obvious. Maaaaaaybe it was. But even so, why risk getting vigged?

I'm not going to say it was a good decision, but that's why I made it.

[Dylan32]

Just checking in and waiting for my turn to claim since we have an obvious next target for today's elimination.

[Swowl]

This is unorganized and for sure not 100% complete, but here is what I have for stuff in the claim order so far.
I am going to finish completing but if you wanna like shout out anything you have already claimed that I don't have in there yet:

Claim List:

1. hypercube

2. Swowl - Edgedancer, Kholin. N1 doctor faust, acetic self. N2 doctor Chairs. SP = Nexus.

3. Jimmmm

4. GreatHallScout - xxxx. N1 ModCopped Faust/Joth. N2?. SP =?

5. scolapasta - Elsecaller. N1 QT for Joth/Glooble, Track Mix to nobody. N2 ?. SP = ?

6. Rhand - Windrunner. N1 blocked Hypercube, watched MiX. N2 ?. SP?

7. Galzria - Edgedancer. N1 doctored faust. N2 ?. SP = Nexus.

8. Dylan32 - Dustbringer. N1?, N2?. SP = Special Message from MOD.

9. LaLight - Skybreaker. N1 followed Pasta, Watched Hypercube. N2?. SP = Follower.

10. chairs - Truthwatcher. N1 cops MiX. N2?. SP = ?

11. faust - Windrunner. N1 Watched someone?, Drained Galz. SP = ?

12. Glooble - IC

13. Eddie - 3rd Party Communicator?

14. MiX - 3rd Party Survivor?

EFHW - Lynched Day 1. Willshaper, Sadeas.

Cayvie - Died Night 1. Skybreaker, Kholin.

Joth - Lynched Day 2. Lightweaver, Aladar.

WCD - Died Night 2. Lightweaver, Aladar.

[Glooble]

Chairs also doctored me N1.

[chairs]

Why are we not just instant lynching cube again?

Vote: hypercube

[Dylan32]

Why are we not just instant lynching cube again?

Vote: hypercube

I think we were just waiting for the highstorm that is coming today. The massclaim is passing the time before that.

[scolapasta]

Cube claimed Windrunner, and the special order power is Bodyguard.

Also MiX claimed House Sebarial.

[scolapasta]

Why are we not just instant lynching cube again?

Vote: hypercube

I think we were just waiting for the highstorm that is coming today. The massclaim is passing the time before that.

Right. Plus I'm sure we can learn something useful from N2 action to find the last (?) mafia.

[Rhand]

Oh Day start.

My take on cube scumclaiming is that he wanted to make the best out of the bad spot he was in: I think he wanted to give the alignment-changer a Scum target.

[Jimmmmm]

Looks like I'm up.

Windrunner (Bodyguard, costs 5); Sebarial; Initial spheres 100/0; Current spheres 70/30; have not bid.

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

I have not participated in any kind of QT (aside from my own obviously) or been involved in anything else that has happened.

[faust]

Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

You didn't think to ask? Because none would be the result in both cases.

[faust]

Jimmmmm: Why did you not roleblock or rolestop hypercube N2?

[Jimmmmm]

Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

You didn't think to ask? Because none would be the result in both cases.

How do you know? My understanding is that being roleblocked gives a result of "No Result".

Jimmmmm: Why did you not roleblock or rolestop hypercube N2?

Because I missed that he claimed scum.

[faust]

Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

You didn't think to ask? Because none would be the result in both cases.

How do you know? My understanding is that being roleblocked gives a result of "No Result".

I know because I asked. You should try it.

Jimmmmm: Why did you not roleblock or rolestop hypercube N2?

Because I missed that he claimed scum.

So what was your read on him at the time?

[faust]

Actually the question I asked was a bit ambiguous. Let me get back on that.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm: Why did you not roleblock or rolestop hypercube N2?

Because I missed that he claimed scum.

So what was your read on him at the time?

In my re-read in #1225 I concluded that I disagreed with a lot of his reasons for voting but I wasn't sure if that meant he was scummy. I hadn't re-read him or come to strong opinions on him since then.

[Rhand]

I asked too yesterDay. The result for no one targeting and being roleblocked is the same.

[faust]

Jimmmmm: Why did you not roleblock or rolestop hypercube N2?

Because I missed that he claimed scum.

So what was your read on him at the time?

In my re-read in #1225 I concluded that I disagreed with a lot of his reasons for voting but I wasn't sure if that meant he was scummy. I hadn't re-read him or come to strong opinions on him since then.

So the fact that joth lied to hide his targeting of hypercube did nothing to influence your read?

[Jimmmmm]

So the fact that joth lied to hide his targeting of hypercube did nothing to influence your read?

If I had more time to sit down and think about the game it probably would have. My thought process was "The Day's over, don't need to worry about it for a couple of days. Who should I watch? How about Didds? I don't remember her getting much suspicion." Probably the next question should have been "Should I Roleblock/stop someone?"

[MiX]

Oh Jimmmmm could've solved yesterday. Well he did.

He also killed Didds, so I don't know how much I trust him...

[Greathallscout]

My turn!
Stoneward- sp bulletproof
Kholin
started 60/30 now 0/90
N1 Modcopd- faust/hyper(same)
N2 Modcopd swowl/jimmm and got no result (fits swowls claim and I'm so mad at town!swowl)

No other activities.

Unvote

[Greathallscout]

@swowl who is on your scum list?

[faust]

My turn!
Stoneward- sp bulletproof
Kholin
started 60/30 now 0/90
N1 Modcopd- faust/hyper(same)
N2 Modcopd swowl/jimmm and got no result (fits swowls claim and I'm so mad at town!swowl)

No other activities.

Unvote

How much does the bulletproof cost?

[Greathallscout]

bulletproof costs 30

[Rhand]

My turn!
Stoneward- sp bulletproof
Kholin
started 60/30 now 0/90
N1 Modcopd- faust/hyper(same)
N2 Modcopd swowl/jimmm and got no result (fits swowls claim and I'm so mad at town!swowl)

No other activities.

Unvote

Swowl used ascetic N1, not N2

[faust]

My turn!
Stoneward- sp bulletproof
Kholin
started 60/30 now 0/90
N1 Modcopd- faust/hyper(same)
N2 Modcopd swowl/jimmm and got no result (fits swowls claim and I'm so mad at town!swowl)

No other activities.

Unvote

Swowl used ascetic N1, not N2

It lasts 2 Nights.

[Rhand]

My turn!
Stoneward- sp bulletproof
Kholin
started 60/30 now 0/90
N1 Modcopd- faust/hyper(same)
N2 Modcopd swowl/jimmm and got no result (fits swowls claim and I'm so mad at town!swowl)

No other activities.

Unvote

Swowl used ascetic N1, not N2

It lasts 2 Nights.

Oh ok

[Galzria]

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

1. I Doctored faust N1. Claimed at end of day yesterday.
2. Watched Didds, the NK’d player, claims to have gotten “none” - seems unlikely at best. I believe Dylan, Swowl & I are the only 3 that have the Ninja power, and my sphere’s were drained by faust.
3. Picked a random person to watch (Didds), who just happened to be the NK, instead of Roleblocking known scum (Hyper).

Mhmm...

[faust]

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

1. I Doctored faust N1. Claimed at end of day yesterday.
2. Watched Didds, the NK’d player, claims to have gotten “none” - seems unlikely at best. I believe Dylan, Swowl & I are the only 3 that have the Ninja power, and my sphere’s were drained by faust.
3. Picked a random person to watch (Didds), who just happened to be the NK, instead of Roleblocking known scum (Hyper).

Mhmm...

None result could be explained by a Roleblocker/-stopper. But yeah... I think we caught another one.

[Galzria]

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

1. I Doctored faust N1. Claimed at end of day yesterday.
2. Watched Didds, the NK’d player, claims to have gotten “none” - seems unlikely at best. I believe Dylan, Swowl & I are the only 3 that have the Ninja power, and my sphere’s were drained by faust.
3. Picked a random person to watch (Didds), who just happened to be the NK, instead of Roleblocking known scum (Hyper).

Mhmm...

None result could be explained by a Roleblocker/-stopper. But yeah... I think we caught another one.

Ah, I missed the clarification on Roleblocker result. That makes point 2 a tinsy bit more plausible - as I imagine it would work the same as Rolestopping? Ie. If scum shot Didds & Rolestopped her then the kill would be the only action that could succeed against her.

[Rhand]

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

1. I Doctored faust N1. Claimed at end of day yesterday.
2. Watched Didds, the NK’d player, claims to have gotten “none” - seems unlikely at best. I believe Dylan, Swowl & I are the only 3 that have the Ninja power, and my sphere’s were drained by faust.
3. Picked a random person to watch (Didds), who just happened to be the NK, instead of Roleblocking known scum (Hyper).

Mhmm...

None result could be explained by a Roleblocker/-stopper. But yeah... I think we caught another one.

It makes Galzria and Jimmmm a dichotomy: if Jimmmm is town, Galzria probably activated ninja for the NK.

[MiX]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

[Rhand]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

I didn’t. I assumed Faust would.

[MiX]

Who's next to claim?

[faust]

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

1. I Doctored faust N1. Claimed at end of day yesterday.
2. Watched Didds, the NK’d player, claims to have gotten “none” - seems unlikely at best. I believe Dylan, Swowl & I are the only 3 that have the Ninja power, and my sphere’s were drained by faust.
3. Picked a random person to watch (Didds), who just happened to be the NK, instead of Roleblocking known scum (Hyper).

Mhmm...

None result could be explained by a Roleblocker/-stopper. But yeah... I think we caught another one.

It makes Galzria and Jimmmm a dichotomy: if Jimmmm is town, Galzria probably activated ninja for the NK.

Well, they can both be town if Galzria was blocked N1.

[faust]

Who's next to claim?

scolapasta.

[faust]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

I didn’t. I assumed Faust would.

Spoiler: I was out of spheres.

[MiX]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

I didn’t. I assumed Faust would.

Spoiler: I was out of spheres.

Welp. Didds was definitely rolestopped.

[Galzria]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

I didn’t. I assumed Faust would.

Seems to me that’s a bad assumption. Faust knew D1 his powers, and thus his Stormlight, were only as good as Hyper being alive. Then he had the opportunity to bid on the N1 item, which would give him a power independent of Hyper if he won - which he did. I think a reasonable assumption to make (and whether it’s true or not is irrelevant), is that faust used most of his spheres to make certain he got that item.

If it’s true, you should definitely have covered for him in RB’ing scum. And if it’s not true, you still should’ve RB’ed Hyper based on the thought that faust couldn’t.

[MiX]

Faust, who did you drain?

[Galzria]

Faust, who did you drain?

Me

[Galzria]

Faust, who did you drain?

Me

He claimed it during Twilight D2.

[MiX]

Faust, who did you drain?

Me

He claimed it during Twilight D2.

Dang.

[hypercube]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

Whose side are you on anyways here? 

[MiX]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

Whose side are you on anyways here? 

Given that I scumread you D1 and joth D2, apparently town's.

Whose side are you on?

[hypercube]

Hmm...we have a rolestopper scum. So it's not unlikely.

But did no one roleblock hyper?

Whose side are you on anyways here? 

Given that I scumread you D1 and joth D2, apparently town's.

Whose side are you on?

That's a silly question.

[Greathallscout]

Is it scum!jimmmm's type to be sloppy? it sounded like people had a lot of respect for him

[Dylan32]

Oh, just noticed Galz claimed. I think I'm next.
Dustbringer
House Sadeas
Started game with 35 infused/20 dun spheres (aka not enough to vig).
Used 5 to use the reporter ability in my claim (because I didn't think it would make a difference on my ability to vig after recharging 20 vs 25 spheres).
Did not bid on any item.
I have taken no night actions since I don't have enough stormlight to vig our known scum/non-town folks.

[Dylan32]

Is it scum!jimmmm's type to be sloppy? it sounded like people had a lot of respect for him

I mean, it's not normal for scum to straight up claim scum either, but that's the game that we're in right now, so I think some defeatism my be understandable today if that's what just happened.

[Dylan32]

@eddie. I have a question for you. QT?

[MiX]

Is it scum!jimmmm's type to be sloppy? it sounded like people had a lot of respect for him

I mean, it's not normal for scum to straight up claim scum either, but that's the game that we're in right now, so I think some defeatism my be understandable today if that's what just happened.

I don't think Jimmmmm would surrender. hypercube might surrender if joth encourages it, but not Jimmmmm I don't think.

@eddie. I have a question for you. QT?

Nooooo don't steal him away from me 

[hypercube]

That reminds me that Eddie exists. Hi Eddie!

[MiX]

That reminds me that Eddie exists. Hi Eddie!

Huh, you were one of the ones that talked to him early. What did you honestly think of him before the conversation?

And what about after, although I think that's not NAI so you won't answer.

[hypercube]

That reminds me that Eddie exists. Hi Eddie!

Huh, you were one of the ones that talked to him early. What did you honestly think of him before the conversation?

And what about after, although I think that's not NAI so you won't answer.

I thought he was the cult leader!

[MiX]

That reminds me that Eddie exists. Hi Eddie!

Huh, you were one of the ones that talked to him early. What did you honestly think of him before the conversation?

And what about after, although I think that's not NAI so you won't answer.

I thought he was the cult leader!

Hahahahahaha, really? Cause I'm certain you said D1 that thinking he was a cult leader was a reaction test. Was it for real?

Hey, can your win condition change?

[hypercube]

That reminds me that Eddie exists. Hi Eddie!

Huh, you were one of the ones that talked to him early. What did you honestly think of him before the conversation?

And what about after, although I think that's not NAI so you won't answer.

I thought he was the cult leader!

Hahahahahaha, really? Cause I'm certain you said D1 that thinking he was a cult leader was a reaction test. Was it for real?

Hey, can your win condition change?

I don't remember what my excuse was but I don't think that was it. Sure, I'm still not 100% convinced there can't be a cult in this game.

Can my win condition change? That's an interesting question. Can anyone truly know that?

[MiX]

I wouldn't know, as mine's a bit tricky. So...you think it's possible?

Regardless, I don't think anyone here is a cult leader, so there's probably not a cult in this game...

Any other useless thoughts? What do you think I am?

[faust]

Cool. Dylan: Please use your remaining infused spheres to spam random messages until they are depleted.

[MiX]

Cool. Dylan: Please use your remaining infused spheres to spam random messages until they are depleted.

I hate how I agree.

[Dylan32]

Cool. Dylan: Please use your remaining infused spheres to spam random messages until they are depleted.

I hate how I agree.

Says the 3rd party who has been discussed as a target of my potential vig shot lol

[MiX]

Cool. Dylan: Please use your remaining infused spheres to spam random messages until they are depleted.

I hate how I agree.

Says the 3rd party who has been discussed as a target of my potential vig shot lol

Well, I have nothing against you in particular. It's just weird that spending all spheres is objectively correct in all situations.

So, did you spend them?

[Dylan32]

Cool. Dylan: Please use your remaining infused spheres to spam random messages until they are depleted.

Insert Captain America "No I don't think I will" meme. Seriously, I'm not going to take my ability to end the game faster for town and waste it.  Even though I can see why you would think it's protown for me to do it, from my perspective it's not.

Shameless AtE and Fun: Besides that, ever since I started playing mafia, I thought it would be fun to be a vig. Those aren't super common on here, so the chances to play a game with it are rare, and then the odds of being the person that rolls it are slimmer. I'm going to keep it, if for no other reason than for the fun of it.  Fortunately for us, we have 1 claimed scum, 2 claimed 3rd party, and another player who's claim looks like they may be caught scum, so I'm not going to hit town when I finally get to shoot.

ppe 1

[faust]

Vote: Dylan

[faust]

You won't have the ability to end the game faster any more or less than you have now after you spent your spheres.

[chairs]

I think it's dumb to ask Dylan to spend his spheres.

[Dylan32]

Cool. Dylan: Please use your remaining infused spheres to spam random messages until they are depleted.

I hate how I agree.

Says the 3rd party who has been discussed as a target of my potential vig shot lol

Well, I have nothing against you in particular. It's just weird that spending all spheres is objectively correct in all situations.

So, did you spend them?

2nd sentence is a classic MiX hyperbole, as there are 100% situations for several different roles in which spending all the spheres on useless actions is not ideal.

ppe 3

[Galzria]

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

There's a Storm coming. Dylan can attempt to recharge then if he really wants to use his Vig shot. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask him to use his stormlight now to confirm his claim / value of what he still has left. According to him he started with 35, and messages cost 5. He should be able to send 6 more.

[faust]

I think it's dumb to ask Dylan to spend his spheres.

And why do you think that?

[MiX]

I'm not faust, so I can explain why it's pro-town to spend them.

You're a vig. ONLY a vig. You only need stormlight to vig. Thus having 45 infused spheres is the same as 0. Do you dispute this?

Okay, now you have 35 spheres. Do you need any of them? No.

You're going to charge at least 20 of them. If you get robbed, does it matter how many people rob you? Or how many spheres you were infusing? No, because since you will have at least 10 of them stole, which means you will have at most 45 spheres, which is not enough.

Thus we want to maximize infused spheres the thief gets when they steal from you, as that thief could easily be town. To do that, you need to spend all infused spheres, so you can charge more.

Thus it's pro-town for you to spend all spheres.

Any questions?

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

There's a Storm coming. Dylan can attempt to recharge then if he really wants to use his Vig shot. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask him to use his stormlight now to confirm his claim / value of what he still has left. According to him he started with 35, and messages cost 5. He should be able to send 6 more.

Lmao @ voting someone that isn't hypercube.

[Dylan32]

You won't have the ability to end the game faster any more or less than you have now after you spent your spheres.

Potentially, but potentially not, because the more spheres I have to put out to charge today, the more likely it is that I end up not getting enough charged back to have a shot.

another ppe 3

[MiX]

I think it's dumb to ask Dylan to spend his spheres.

And why do you think that?

chairs is also right. While typing my argument I found a reason to not spend stormlight, and I'm against it now. It's completely anti-town to spend them.

[Dylan32]

I'm not faust, so I can explain why it's pro-town to spend them.

You're a vig. ONLY a vig. You only need stormlight to vig. Thus having 45 infused spheres is the same as 0. Do you dispute this?

Okay, now you have 35 spheres. Do you need any of them? No.

You're going to charge at least 20 of them. If you get robbed, does it matter how many people rob you? Or how many spheres you were infusing? No, because since you will have at least 10 of them stole, which means you will have at most 45 spheres, which is not enough.

Thus we want to maximize infused spheres the thief gets when they steal from you, as that thief could easily be town. To do that, you need to spend all infused spheres, so you can charge more.

Thus it's pro-town for you to spend all spheres.

Any questions?

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

There's a Storm coming. Dylan can attempt to recharge then if he really wants to use his Vig shot. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask him to use his stormlight now to confirm his claim / value of what he still has left. According to him he started with 35, and messages cost 5. He should be able to send 6 more.

Lmao @ voting someone that isn't hypercube.

Fair enough on the math, but also the thief could also be scum, and so maximizing their return would not be pro-town.

[Galzria]

You won't have the ability to end the game faster any more or less than you have now after you spent your spheres.

Potentially, but potentially not, because the more spheres I have to put out to charge today, the more likely it is that I end up not getting enough charged back to have a shot.

another ppe 3

And you'll have the same chance to steal sphere's from others. Two way street.

[Dylan32]

You won't have the ability to end the game faster any more or less than you have now after you spent your spheres.

Potentially, but potentially not, because the more spheres I have to put out to charge today, the more likely it is that I end up not getting enough charged back to have a shot.

another ppe 3

And you'll have the same chance to steal sphere's from others. Two way street.

But if they are charging a low number while I'm suddenly having to charge 55, I'm coming out at a net loss. Unless someone wants to tell me exactly who is in House Sadeas with me with their sphere counts, then I might reconsider.

[Galzria]

You won't have the ability to end the game faster any more or less than you have now after you spent your spheres.

Potentially, but potentially not, because the more spheres I have to put out to charge today, the more likely it is that I end up not getting enough charged back to have a shot.

another ppe 3

And you'll have the same chance to steal sphere's from others. Two way street.

But if they are charging a low number while I'm suddenly having to charge 55, I'm coming out at a net loss. Unless someone wants to tell me exactly who is in House Sadeas with me with their sphere counts, then I might reconsider.

I am. All my Sphere's are drained.

[MiX]

If we want Dylan to get a vig shot, he shouldn't spend any stormlight. Now, do we want to do that? I do.

[faust]

Fair enough on the math, but also the thief could also be scum, and so maximizing their return would not be pro-town.

It doesn't matter in the slightest. You're worried about a very hypothetical scenario. We have strong control over who steals what, and there may not even be scum in your house.

On the flipside, here's a chance for us to confirm that you did not use your anti-town powers, which would go a long way towards clearing you, and you're refusing to take it.

[faust]

But if they are charging a low number while I'm suddenly having to charge 55, I'm coming out at a net loss. Unless someone wants to tell me exactly who is in House Sadeas with me with their sphere counts, then I might reconsider.

In case you forgot... we're doing a massclaim of these things right now.

[Galzria]

If we want Dylan to get a vig shot, he shouldn't spend any stormlight. Now, do we want to do that? I do.

He started with 55 total Spheres. Takes 50 to Vig. He claims to have 30 Infused, 25 Dun. If he places those 25 Dun out and even a single person steals from him, he won't hit 50 regardless.

[MiX]

If we want Dylan to get a vig shot, he shouldn't spend any stormlight. Now, do we want to do that? I do.

He started with 55 total Spheres. Takes 50 to Vig. He claims to have 30 Infused, 25 Dun. If he places those 25 Dun out and even a single person steals from him, he won't hit 50 regardless.

But he can steal as well. So we want him to be able to get at least 20 infused spheres from stealing is he's stolen from.

[MiX]

But if they are charging a low number while I'm suddenly having to charge 55, I'm coming out at a net loss. Unless someone wants to tell me exactly who is in House Sadeas with me with their sphere counts, then I might reconsider.

In case you forgot... we're doing a massclaim of these things right now.

We might not get to the end before highstorm.

[Dylan32]

Fair enough on the math, but also the thief could also be scum, and so maximizing their return would not be pro-town.

It doesn't matter in the slightest. You're worried about a very hypothetical scenario. We have strong control over who steals what, and there may not even be scum in your house.

On the flipside, here's a chance for us to confirm that you did not use your anti-town powers, which would go a long way towards clearing you, and you're refusing to take it.

But if they are charging a low number while I'm suddenly having to charge 55, I'm coming out at a net loss. Unless someone wants to tell me exactly who is in House Sadeas with me with their sphere counts, then I might reconsider.

In case you forgot... we're doing a massclaim of these things right now.

Right, and when galz just said he was in my house, I went back and realized his post where he mentioned one of his actions wasn't a fullclaim (I was skimming) and so I jumped the gun anyway. In a situation where we didn't have a LITERAL CLAIMED SCUM, I would be way more likely to take this chance to prove my claim. In the future, I might consider it as things develop. At this moment, I don't think it's in town's best interest to do so/there's no need to do it right this second, so I'm not going to let you force me to play a certain way like I felt happened with claiming D1.

ppe 3

[Greathallscout]

@dylan please give a specific scenario you are afraid of.

[MiX]

Fair enough on the math, but also the thief could also be scum, and so maximizing their return would not be pro-town.

It doesn't matter in the slightest. You're worried about a very hypothetical scenario. We have strong control over who steals what, and there may not even be scum in your house.

On the flipside, here's a chance for us to confirm that you did not use your anti-town powers, which would go a long way towards clearing you, and you're refusing to take it.

He could easily just start with 15 more infused spheres than what he claimed and use them to ninja. What are you gonna do about that? Nothing.

[faust]

Right, and when galz just said he was in my house, I went back and realized his post where he mentioned one of his actions wasn't a fullclaim (I was skimming) and so I jumped the gun anyway. In a situation where we didn't have a LITERAL CLAIMED SCUM, I would be way more likely to take this chance to prove my claim. In the future, I might consider it as things develop. At this moment, I don't think it's in town's best interest to do so/there's no need to do it right this second, so I'm not going to let you force me to play a certain way like I felt happened with claiming D1.

ppe 3

Yeah I should probably have mentioned this, hypercube claimed Kholin to me back during D1 or even N1, I don't think he lied about that.

[faust]

Right, and when galz just said he was in my house, I went back and realized his post where he mentioned one of his actions wasn't a fullclaim (I was skimming) and so I jumped the gun anyway. In a situation where we didn't have a LITERAL CLAIMED SCUM, I would be way more likely to take this chance to prove my claim. In the future, I might consider it as things develop. At this moment, I don't think it's in town's best interest to do so/there's no need to do it right this second, so I'm not going to let you force me to play a certain way like I felt happened with claiming D1.

ppe 3

Yeah I should probably have mentioned this, hypercube claimed Kholin to me back during D1 or even N1, I don't think he lied about that.

*or even N0

[faust]

Fair enough on the math, but also the thief could also be scum, and so maximizing their return would not be pro-town.

It doesn't matter in the slightest. You're worried about a very hypothetical scenario. We have strong control over who steals what, and there may not even be scum in your house.

On the flipside, here's a chance for us to confirm that you did not use your anti-town powers, which would go a long way towards clearing you, and you're refusing to take it.

He could easily just start with 15 more infused spheres than what he claimed and use them to ninja. What are you gonna do about that? Nothing.

Well yeah but if he started with enough spheres to vig then I think he would have kept them.

[Greathallscout]

Right, and when galz just said he was in my house, I went back and realized his post where he mentioned one of his actions wasn't a fullclaim (I was skimming) and so I jumped the gun anyway. In a situation where we didn't have a LITERAL CLAIMED SCUM, I would be way more likely to take this chance to prove my claim. In the future, I might consider it as things develop. At this moment, I don't think it's in town's best interest to do so/there's no need to do it right this second, so I'm not going to let you force me to play a certain way like I felt happened with claiming D1.

ppe 3

Yeah I should probably have mentioned this, hypercube claimed Kholin to me back during D1 or even N1, I don't think he lied about that.

It was in the regular thread also. post 1262

[MiX]

Fair enough on the math, but also the thief could also be scum, and so maximizing their return would not be pro-town.

It doesn't matter in the slightest. You're worried about a very hypothetical scenario. We have strong control over who steals what, and there may not even be scum in your house.

On the flipside, here's a chance for us to confirm that you did not use your anti-town powers, which would go a long way towards clearing you, and you're refusing to take it.

He could easily just start with 15 more infused spheres than what he claimed and use them to ninja. What are you gonna do about that? Nothing.

Well yeah but if he started with enough spheres to vig then I think he would have kept them.

Given what's happened D2, I would've kept the ninja. But I doubt that's a decision scum makes N1, so fair enough.

The Dylan-spends-everything plan only works if he doesn't steal and no one steals from him, which only works if there's no scum in the house. Do you think you can uphold that rule?

Are you in Dylan's house?

[Galzria]

Also, full details:

Class: Edgedancer
House: Sadeas
Spheres: 70 Infused, 0 Dun

N1: Doctor Faust (-15 Infused Spheres)
D2: Remaining Sphere's Drained
N2: Nothing

Current: 0 Infused Spheres, 70 Dun Spheres

[Galzria]

Fair enough on the math, but also the thief could also be scum, and so maximizing their return would not be pro-town.

It doesn't matter in the slightest. You're worried about a very hypothetical scenario. We have strong control over who steals what, and there may not even be scum in your house.

On the flipside, here's a chance for us to confirm that you did not use your anti-town powers, which would go a long way towards clearing you, and you're refusing to take it.

He could easily just start with 15 more infused spheres than what he claimed and use them to ninja. What are you gonna do about that? Nothing.

Well yeah but if he started with enough spheres to vig then I think he would have kept them.

Given what's happened D2, I would've kept the ninja. But I doubt that's a decision scum makes N1, so fair enough.

The Dylan-spends-everything plan only works if he doesn't steal and no one steals from him, which only works if there's no scum in the house. Do you think you can uphold that rule?

Are you in Dylan's house?

The plan works fine regardless of any stealing. The plan isn't to get him to spend it all now and then refill so he can Vig later. The plan is to have him spend at least 6 messages worth (30 Sphere's) to verify that he has that amount left - which is what he claimed. Whatever happens after that is irrelevant.

[MiX]

There's a bunch of uninformed things I can say about the setup, but I absolutely love the sphere distribution. It's completely random, and that's exactly what it needs to be.

The plan works fine regardless of any stealing. The plan isn't to get him to spend it all now and then refill so he can Vig later. The plan is to have him spend at least 6 messages worth (30 Sphere's) to verify that he has that amount left - which is what he claimed. Whatever happens after that is irrelevant.

Idk I kinda want to have a vig around so we can shoot the claimed SK, that seems pro town to me at least.

[Rhand]

I think we’re mixing up the claim order?
I was waiting for Scolapasta, but I see people after me have claimed.

I think Dylan is town. And I wouldn’t mind him shooting at a third party.

[Dylan32]

I think we’re mixing up the claim order?
I was waiting for Scolapasta, but I see people after me have claimed.

I think Dylan is town. And I wouldn’t mind him shooting at a third party.

Yeah, I goofed seeing galz post something that included something he did and jumped the gun. We should get back in order with the one exception that if you are in House Sadeas, say so before the highstorm comes and then wait for your turn to claim everything else.

[scolapasta]

Wow, lots going on, and good point, we don't know when the storm is coming, so let's get these claims in.

What I have already claimed:
Elsecaller
N1: tracked MiX (no result), invented neighborhood for Gloobie and joth
N2: tracked someone (no result)

New info:
N2 tracked chairs (in case joth was trying to "protect him" in his confessional;
invented the negative painial for cube (makes hime weak)

Special order power: jailkeeper (cost 15)

House sadea (with dylan and galz and efhw)

Started with 60/40; now at 10/90

[scolapasta]

Dylan I would like you to use your orbs, that way galz or I have something to steal.

If you are both town, this now meake sense, as one or both of you can steal a lot from me.

(I'm assuming, hopefully correctly, that 4 is the max in a house)

[Dylan32]

If it is just Galz and I left in Sadeas, I will burn the stormlight to prove my claim. That may change depending on who, if anyone else, is in it too. Luckily, we already got rid of scum!EFHW out of our house, so that's good.

ppe 2

[Dylan32]

well crap

[scolapasta]

(originally I did not think you should, but now with the new info of all our house members, it makes sense).

If you don't I can't risk putting all my orbs out.

Putting all my orbs out is protown if you are both town.

[scolapasta]

Also, probably not the case, but is there nay chance that cube us lying about being scum?

e.g. what if he is a jester who wins by getting exiled? then he could be using this "i give up" to induce us into exiling.

Would it be better to try and NK him (which I tried last night, to the only ability I have that could have maybe done that)?

[MiX]

Also, probably not the case, but is there nay chance that cube us lying about being scum?

e.g. what if he is a jester who wins by getting exiled? then he could be using this "i give up" to induce us into exiling.

Would it be better to try and NK him (which I tried last night, to the only ability I have that could have maybe done that)?

Why would hypercube save himself D1 if he wants to die? He was on a fast track to the guillotine, and he put the brakes on it. Only town and scum do that.

[scolapasta]

Good point. D1 feels ages ago.

Was just trying to brainstorm if there's any "non giving up" plausible explanation for his claiming.

[MiX]

Good point. D1 feels ages ago.

Was just trying to brainstorm if there's any "non giving up" plausible explanation for his claiming.

Well it made him not be roleblocked, so creating chaos among town is a viable plan that worked.

[MiX]

Oh yeah, unlike what the thread name suggests, we're in D3.

Can you change the day to D3?

[Rhand]

For some reason quicktopic doesn’t want to open on my phone here :/
Pretty sure I remember correctly though:

House Serabrial (same as MiX)
Started with 50 infused, 20 dunn
Windrunner (special power bodyguard for 5)
Watched MiX / roleblocked Cube N1
Watched Faust N2 (result: LaLight)
Now 5 infused, 65 dunn

I will doublecheck my dunn spheres when QT works again.

[MiX]

Inb4 LL "watched faust, result: rhand"

Yay I can steal from you Rhand! Or do you want your spheres?

[Rhand]

Inb4 LL "watched faust, result: rhand"

Yay I can steal from you Rhand! Or do you want your spheres?

Eh I was planning on taking yours lol mr third party

[MiX]

Inb4 LL "watched faust, result: rhand"

Yay I can steal from you Rhand! Or do you want your spheres?

Eh I was planning on taking yours lol mr third party

I don't have any

[scolapasta]

Dylan - 30 / 25
Galz - 0 / 70
scolapasta: 10 / 90

I'd like to only lost 45 and not 60 (if you both steal from me).
I can get back 35 if I steal from galz.

But for galz to steal from you and not me, he needs to be able to get 27/28.

So using them all works, and gives you towncred.

[MiX]

The pro-town-iest move of all is for dylan to spend all and scola and galz to steal from each other. This is assume there's only 3 people in that house anyway.

[scolapasta]

Sure that works too, similar #s. Overall point is the same, Dylan should spend.

[Galzria]

It shouldn’t be discounted that it’s possible that MiX/Eddie have the ability to steal from outside their houses.

[MiX]

It shouldn’t be discounted that it’s possible that MiX/Eddie have the ability to steal from outside their houses.

Eddie has no use for stealing as proven by his neighborhoods being free, and I have no idea if I do have a use for them, but I guess I'm stealing regardless so it doesn't matter.

I can promise that I'll only steal from Sebarial. Surely someone in that house will corroborate this once the highstorm goes away.

[Dylan32]

We should move on to other things. I'm willing to talk about plans for the storm with my house, and my reporter ability does not seem to be limited to certain times of day/storm conditions, so continuing to focus on this isn't helpful at the moment.

[mail-mi]

A mod error occured with someone else's results on N1. It has been rectified.

"The ones of ash and fire, who killed like a swarm, relentless before the Heralds …" Noted in Masly, page 337. Corroborated by Coldwin and Hasavah.

Vote Count 3.1

hypercube (1): chairs
Dylan32 (2): faust, Galzria

Not Voting (11): Dylan32, LaLight, hypercube, scolapasta, Swowl, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Glooble, Jimmmmm, MiX, GreatHallScout

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 lasts until 10:00AM FT on June 30, 2020.

[MiX]

Remaining claims:

LaLight
chairs
faust
Glooble

Also I'll claim now that I spent all 20 dun spheres on trying to get the shardplate.

[Galzria]

We should move on to other things. I'm willing to talk about plans for the storm with my house, and my reporter ability does not seem to be limited to certain times of day/storm conditions, so continuing to focus on this isn't helpful at the moment.

It’s still extremely helpful. You have the ability to prove your claim. You’re choosing not to do so.

[LaLight]

Skybreaker, Kholin. started with 65 infused, 5 dun. Skybreaker ability: Follower for 5 spheres.

N1 Followed Scola (Tracker, Inventor)
Watched hyper (Rhand, GHS, joth)

N2 followed GHS (Modified cop)
watched faust (Rhand)

25 spheres left.

[LaLight]

didn't bid on anything, obviously. nothing else interesting happened.

[Dylan32]

We should move on to other things. I'm willing to talk about plans for the storm with my house, and my reporter ability does not seem to be limited to certain times of day/storm conditions, so continuing to focus on this isn't helpful at the moment.

It’s still extremely helpful. You have the ability to prove your claim. You’re choosing not to do so.

Ok, I was waiting for mail-mi to answer some questions. Until I had those answers, it wasn't helpful for town to keep talking about it, because I wasn't going to say anything else about it.  I have those answers now, so here.

I can use the spheres to report during a highstorm, which is why I was interested in just waiting and discussing it with my house in private, but I confirmed I can't turn around and charge those same spheres in that same storm, which would have been great.  That would have let me both drain all the stormlight and verify my claim AFTER having a private convo with sadeas, and then be able to charge all of them back up. As it is, even if there's one more person in our house, regardless of how we cooperate, I'm pretty sure I would still end up getting back just enough stormlight to have 1 shot even if I drain all of what I currently have, so I'm planning on sending the messages.

[Uncleeurope]

A mod error occured with someone else's results on N1. It has been rectified.

"The ones of ash and fire, who killed like a swarm, relentless before the Heralds …" Noted in Masly, page 337. Corroborated by Coldwin and Hasavah.

Vote Count 3.1

hypercube (1): chairs
Dylan32 (2): faust, Galzria

Not Voting (11): Dylan32, LaLight, hypercube, scolapasta, Swowl, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Glooble, Jimmmmm, MiX, GreatHallScout

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 lasts until 10:00AM FT on June 30, 2020.

’Twould be humorous if our good Sir Dylan wrote this.

[MiX]

Oh, you're here, you can give Dylan good ideas to say publicly.

[mail-mi]

mail-mi jumped back as lines began to etch themselves in the dirt beneath him.

Never gonna give you up...

[mail-mi]

Never gonna let you down...

[mail-mi]

Never gonna run around and desert you...

[mail-mi]

Never gonna make you cry...

[mail-mi]

Never gonna say goodbye...

[mail-mi]

Never gonna say a lie and hurt you.

The message was cryptic and confusing. "Did someone..." mail-mi said hesitantly, "did someone just confess their love for me?"

[Galzria]

Unvote

[Swowl]

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

1. I Doctored faust N1. Claimed at end of day yesterday.
2. Watched Didds, the NK’d player, claims to have gotten “none” - seems unlikely at best. I believe Dylan, Swowl & I are the only 3 that have the Ninja power, and my sphere’s were drained by faust.
3. Picked a random person to watch (Didds), who just happened to be the NK, instead of Roleblocking known scum (Hyper).

Mhmm...

None result could be explained by a Roleblocker/-stopper. But yeah... I think we caught another one.

It makes Galzria and Jimmmm a dichotomy: if Jimmmm is town, Galzria probably activated ninja for the NK.

meh. The only way that works is if Galz and faust are skum together (because faust claimed to drain all of galz spheres)... which I do not think is a plausible option.

[Swowl]

@swowl who is on your scum list?

I'll get back to you in a bit on this. Catching up with the claims right now.

Why would you pick myself and Jimm?

[Greathallscout]

@swowl who is on your scum list?

I'll get back to you in a bit on this. Catching up with the claims right now.

Why would you pick myself and Jimm?

You both were on my scum watchlist. Also we barely had info on both of you. Also if you were town it was less likely you would be blocked because you didn't claim to cop or doctor anyone.

[faust]

unvote

[faust]

chairs is next on the list but I'm going to go to sleep soon and Idon't want everyone to have to wait.

I am a Windrunner Squire. As you know, I have a neighborhood with hyper, and lose my powers if he dies.

I started with 20/30 spheres.
N1 I watched chairs, result none.
I bid 10 dun spheres on the Larken
D2 I drained Galzria
N2 I used my last 5 spheres to bodyguard Rhand.

Now I have 40 dun spheres. My house is Sebarial.

[faust]

(did not bid N2)

[faust]

Why would everyone watch me? I'm a low-priority target, I'm basically a VT.

[MiX]

Why would everyone watch me? I'm a low-priority target, I'm basically a VT.

Precisely, which is why they can get away with NKing you.

[Jimmmmm]

A mod error occured with someone else's results on N1. It has been rectified.

Updated N1 results: Swowl, Galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie

Also, as faust mentioned, the roleblocked result is also none, so it might have been that I was roleblocked last Night.

[MiX]

A mod error occured with someone else's results on N1. It has been rectified.

Updated N1 results: Swowl, Galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie

Also, as faust mentioned, the roleblocked result is also none, so it might have been that I was roleblocked last Night.

What was it before?

[Greathallscout]

A mod error occured with someone else's results on N1. It has been rectified.

Updated N1 results: Swowl, Galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie

Also, as faust mentioned, the roleblocked result is also none, so it might have been that I was roleblocked last Night.

UGH I've been waiting at the edge of my seat for chairs' claim

[Dylan32]

A mod error occured with someone else's results on N1. It has been rectified.

Updated N1 results: Swowl, Galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie

Also, as faust mentioned, the roleblocked result is also none, so it might have been that I was roleblocked last Night.

Looks like I'm up.

Windrunner (Bodyguard, costs 5); Sebarial; Initial spheres 100/0; Current spheres 70/30; have not bid.

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

I have not participated in any kind of QT (aside from my own obviously) or been involved in anything else that has happened.

What was it before?

[MiX]

I see. What did Galz claim to do to faust?

[Dylan32]

quote fail.

A mod error occured with someone else's results on N1. It has been rectified.

Updated N1 results: Swowl, Galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie

Also, as faust mentioned, the roleblocked result is also none, so it might have been that I was roleblocked last Night.

What was it before?

Looks like I'm up.

Windrunner (Bodyguard, costs 5); Sebarial; Initial spheres 100/0; Current spheres 70/30; have not bid.

Night 1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Night 2 watched Didds; unfortunately my result was none. I interpret that to mean that I wasn't roleblocked, rather that it was a Ninja kill on Didds.

I have not participated in any kind of QT (aside from my own obviously) or been involved in anything else that has happened.

[Rhand]

Why would everyone watch me? I'm a low-priority target, I'm basically a VT.

Precisely, which is why they can get away with NKing you.

Yeh this.
And you’re the most vocal solver and almost certainly town with Cube’s confession.
I was doubting between watching you and blocking cube, and figured watching you might net me scum.
In hindsight the block would have been better if the watch on gibbs comes from town, but hindsight is 2020.

[MiX]

See I understand the Rhand mind. Always one step ahead from scum. And one step ahead from town as no one roleblocked hypercube, but oh well.

So is chairs next? And then Glooble? Oooooh I can't wait to see why Glooble's the only person in their order!

[Rhand]

chairs is next on the list but I'm going to go to sleep soon and Idon't want everyone to have to wait.

I am a Windrunner Squire. As you know, I have a neighborhood with hyper, and lose my powers if he dies.

I started with 20/30 spheres.
N1 I watched chairs, result none.
I bid 10 dun spheres on the Larken
D2 I drained Galzria
N2 I used my last 5 spheres to bodyguard Rhand.

Now I have 40 dun spheres. My house is Sebarial.

That’s funny. I didn’t bid on the bulletproof item because I wanted you to have it and you bodyguarded me.

[Swowl]

I see. What did Galz claim to do to faust?

doctored him N1

[Swowl]

@swowl who is on your scum list?

I'll get back to you in a bit on this. Catching up with the claims right now.

Why would you pick myself and Jimm?

You both were on my scum watchlist. Also we barely had info on both of you. Also if you were town it was less likely you would be blocked because you didn't claim to cop or doctor anyone.

Why would it matter if I was blocked or not for your result?

[MiX]

I'm reading D1 to see who else is scum and exactly how much I was scumreading scum (you can tell which one I'm prioritizing)

Are you town?

Yes.

Vote: hypercube

I caught a scumslip! Yay!


Also Swowl has a surprisingly good question.

[Swowl]

Also Swowl has a surprisingly good question.

I can't decide if I am supposed to be offended by this or not

[MiX]

Also Swowl has a surprisingly good question.

I can't decide if I am supposed to be offended by this or not

I didn't determine if it was offensive or not when I made that, so...take it as you will. I think it's a compliment now that I'm thinking about it. I didn't think much of what Hall said and I'm surprised there was something to be said of that significance.

[Swowl]

Also Swowl has a surprisingly good question.

I can't decide if I am supposed to be offended by this or not

I didn't determine if it was offensive or not when I made that, so...take it as you will. I think it's a compliment now that I'm thinking about it. I didn't think much of what Hall said and I'm surprised there was something to be said of that significance.

my response was in a joking manner, all good.

[Swowl]

Alright. Updated list in a easier to read format. Includes houses and sphere counts now.

Updated Claim List:

1. hypercube
- Windrunner. SP = Bodyguard (5)
- House Kholin


2. Swowl
- Edgedancer. SP = Nexus (need to give cost and details)
- House Kholin
- Initial spheres 75/20; Current spheres 15/80
- N1 doctor faust + acetic self.
- N2 doctor Chairs.


3. Jimmmm
- Windrunner. SP = Bodyguard (5)
- House Sebarial
- Initial spheres 100/0; Current spheres 70/30
- N1 watched faust; saw Swowl, chairs, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
- N2 watched Didds; no result


4. GreatHallScout
- Stoneward. SP = Bulletproof (30)
- House Kholin
- Initial spheres 60/30; Current spheres 0/90
- N1 ModCopped Faust/Cube; same alignment
- N2 ModCopped Swowl/Jimmm; no result


5. scolapasta
- Elsecaller. SP = JK (15)
- House Sadea
- Initial spheres 60/40; Current spheres 10/90
- N1 QT for Joth/Glooble, Track Mix to nobody.
- N2 tracked Chairs to ?, Invented weak modifier for Cube.


6. Rhand
- Windrunner. SP = Bodyguard (5)
- House Seabrial
- Initial spheres 50/20; Current spheres UNK
- N1 blocked Hypercube, watched MiX; saw Chairs and WCD
- N2 watched faust; saw LL


7. Galzria
- Edgedancer. SP = Nexus
- House Sadeas
- Initial spheres 70/0; Current spheres 0/70
- N1 doctored faust.
- N2 no action.


8. Dylan32
- Dustbringer. SP Reporter (5)
- House Sadeas
- Initial spheres 35/20; Current spheres 30/15
- N1 no actions
- N2 no actions


9. LaLight
- Skybreaker. SP = Follower (5)
- House Kholin
- Initial spheres 65/5; Current spheres 25/45
- N1 followed Pasta; Tracker, Inventor. Watched Hypercube; saw Rhand, GHS, Joth
- N2 follwed GHS; ModCop. Watched faust; saw Rhand


10. chairs
- Truthwatcher.
- N1 cops MiX + Doctors Glooble
- N2

11. faust
- Windrunner Squire. Hood with Hyper. Loses abilities if Hyper dies. SP = BG (5)
-House Sebarial
- Initial spheres 20/30; Current spheres 0/40 (bid 10 dun on Larken)
- N1 Watched Chairs; nothing.
- D2 Drained Galz
- N2 BG Rhand

12. Glooble - IC

13. Eddie - 3rd Party Communicator?

14. MiX
- 3rd Party Survivor?
- House Sebarial

EFHW - Lynched Day 1. Willshaper, Sadeas.

Cayvie - Died Night 1. Skybreaker, Kholin.

Joth - Lynched Day 2. Lightweaver, Aladar.

WCD - Died Night 2. Lightweaver, Aladar.
[/quote]

[MiX]

Jimmmmm saw Galz, not chairs, N1.

[Swowl]

Jimmmmm saw Galz, not chairs, N1.

right, forgot the switch thanks!

I am not gonna update it just for that so everyone just make a note of it lol

[Swowl]

actually I guess everyone outside of third parties has claimed an order, so I can give info on Nexus ability at this point?

Galz - you see a problem with that?

[Dylan32]

Also, I have no stormlight thanks to Rick Astley.

[Swowl]

Also, I have no stormlight thanks to Rick Astley.

what does that mean? faust did not claim to drain you N2.

[Swowl]

where in the world is chairs san diego?

[MiX]

Also, I have no stormlight thanks to Rick Astley.

what does that mean? faust did not claim to drain you N2.

Did you miss the Dylan report of his unreciprocated love towards mail-mi?

[Swowl]

Also, I have no stormlight thanks to Rick Astley.

what does that mean? faust did not claim to drain you N2.

Did you miss the Dylan report of his unreciprocated love towards mail-mi?

oh the song right. yeah ok I will add that to the list.
After chairs checks in and glooble says what they wanna say I will update.

[Galzria]

Also, I have no stormlight thanks to Rick Astley.

what does that mean? faust did not claim to drain you N2.

Rick Astley drained him.

[Galzria]

Also Rhand has 5 Infused Sphere’s left based on his claim. 

[Swowl]

Also, I have no stormlight thanks to Rick Astley.

what does that mean? faust did not claim to drain you N2.

Rick Astley drained him.

yes yes I got it lol

[Rhand]

Also Rhand has 5 Infused Sphere’s left based on his claim.

Yeh my count was correct.

[Greathallscout]

@swowl who is on your scum list?

I'll get back to you in a bit on this. Catching up with the claims right now.

Why would you pick myself and Jimm?

You both were on my scum watchlist. Also we barely had info on both of you. Also if you were town it was less likely you would be blocked because you didn't claim to cop or doctor anyone.

Why would it matter if I was blocked or not for your result?

lol I said at the begininning of the day i would get confused with the word blocked. I meant something that would interfere with my result. "Stopped" or "acesticed" or any of the "confusers"

[Rhand]

I also saw Scolapasta on MiX N1.

[Galzria]

actually I guess everyone outside of third parties has claimed an order, so I can give info on Nexus ability at this point?

Galz - you see a problem with that?

Not like anybody is fakeclaiming it at this point so go for it.

[Swowl]

k.

Nexus is mass RD for 50 SL. Anything that targets you will be re directed onto other players at random.

[Galzria]

k.

Nexus is mass RD for 50 SL. Anything that targets you will be re directed onto other players at random.

Actually the wording is vague (and as I had no intention of using it (and I had seen nothing to suggest it had been used by somebody else), I didn’t clarify): It doesn’t specify that each action will redirect independently, rather it implies that one singular target will be the recipient of all actions that target you.

[Swowl]

I mean without quoting... because of the word each instead of all, I assumed it was individual. But I also have not double checked.

[Swowl]

I have now confirmed that the actions are individual and can potentially go to different players when re directed.

[faust]

chaaaaaa-aaaairs! Where aaaaaare you?

[MiX]

Here’s what I know beyond what’s already public knowledge: chairs is some kind of doctor and targeted Glooble.

Would joth spew chairs if chairs was town?

Would joth say chairs is town if chairs was town?

[Rhand]

Here’s what I know beyond what’s already public knowledge: chairs is some kind of doctor and targeted Glooble.

Would joth spew chairs if chairs was town?

Would joth say chairs is town if chairs was town?

That’s a grey area.
If Chairs is town, Joth would trueclaim what he did I think.
If Chairs is mafia, he probably still targeted Glooble but not necessarily with a doc.

[mail-mi]

"They take away the light, wherever they lurk. Skin that is burned." Cormshen, page 104.

Vote Count 3.2

hypercube (1): chairs

Not Voting (13): Dylan32, LaLight, hypercube, scolapasta, Swowl, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Glooble, Jimmmmm, MiX, GreatHallScout, Galzria, faust

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 lasts until 10:00AM FT on June 30, 2020.

Something rumbled in the distance. Mail-mi looked up to see the stormwall quickly approaching. Lightning flashed, and he could see a boulder blowing in the fierce winds. "To the shelters!" mail-mi called, then ducked into his own.

The highstorm has arrived! All House QTs are now unlocked. If you would like to infuse your spheres, please say so in your personal QT. Same goes for if you'd like to steal from another member of your house. This thread will reopen in 48 hours.

Thread locked!

[mail-mi]

Actions are due by the end of the highstorm.

[mail-mi]

Actions are due in 30 minutes!

[mail-mi]

The highstorm has passed.

Thread Unlocked!

Players will receive their updated sphere counts in a little bit, I'm super busy rn.

[MiX]

I'm town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I'm town aligned.

Eddie, hit me up!

[Dylan32]

I'm town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I'm town aligned.

Eddie, hit me up!

Is there any way you could verify that?

[MiX]

Nope!

[Glooble]

Vote: hypercube

Should I still claim my order?

UncleEurope, do you have any useful intel for me?

[Dylan32]

Vote: hypercube

[Rhand]

I'm town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I'm town aligned.

Eddie, hit me up!

Tell me more

Vote: Hypercube

[hypercube]

Hey, now I'm town too!

[MiX]

Hey, now I'm town too!

Vote: hypercube

[hypercube]

Hey, now I'm town too!

Vote: hypercube

I thought you'd be happy for me.

[MiX]

Hey, now I'm town too!

Vote: hypercube

I thought you'd be happy for me.

If you weren't trying to make fun of me, maybe.

I don't need stormlight for my stuff, so that's nice. I'll be telling Eddie my abilities in a bit.

But I'm also an Oracle, and so if there's any questions I should ask, you can brainstorm about them now.

[MiX]

I'm town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I'm town aligned.

Eddie, hit me up!

Tell me more

Vote: Hypercube

I became Nimbleform, which apparently gives me a bunch of powers, one of them being Oracle. I have town's win condition. I don't have any stormlight. I can't change forms anymore.

[scolapasta]

vote: hypercube

MiX, oracle means you can ask mod questions about setup?

Well, since we didn't complete the full claim yet, can you ask a question or two about something that was not yet revealed? (in order to confirm your claim)

So Gloobie, I'd suggest don't reveal order yet, for example. (unless you've told eddie, since he may have told MiX)

[Dylan32]

One useful type of question would be something along the lines of "would the setup have allowed order x to be scum aligned?" since I don't think we technically know yet if order and alignment were fully randomized or if there was some balancing in that regard, even though it's been brought up a few times.  Of course, that doesn't validate that you're telling the truth, so if there's a question that can do that first, ask it instead.

[MiX]

vote: hypercube

MiX, oracle means you can ask mod questions about setup?

Well, since we didn't complete the full claim yet, can you ask a question or two about something that was not yet revealed? (in order to confirm your claim)

So Gloobie, I'd suggest don't reveal order yet, for example. (unless you've told eddie, since he may have told MiX)

Yes, it does, but only things before the randomizer, so I can't ask what order Glooble is, at least not directly.

One useful type of question would be something along the lines of "would the setup have allowed order x to be scum aligned?" since I don't think we technically know yet if order and alignment were fully randomized or if there was some balancing in that regard, even though it's been brought up a few times.  Of course, that doesn't validate that you're telling the truth, so if there's a question that can do that first, ask it instead.

I will absolutely not ask questions about mod preferences to things.

[MiX]

Okay, I have devised a way to use this power as a cop ability. It requires creativity, however. And a target.

So, what do people want to know? I wasn't paying attention to who was scummy before.

[MiX]

Can anyone get me a summary of everyone's order and sphere claims, hopefully updated with post-highstorm stuff.

[Glooble]

I don’t think I actually told anyone my order.

[MiX]

I don’t think I actually told anyone my order.

I'm not using my power to confirm myself anyway. Obviously I have the oracle power, as otherwise I wouldn't claim it.

What should I do with it?

[chairs]

Ugh, I missed confirming my House's stealing plan for the highstorm. Sorry - fiancee came into town and threw me off.

[scolapasta]

I don’t think I actually told anyone my order.

I'm not using my power to confirm myself anyway. Obviously I have the oracle power, as otherwise I wouldn't claim it.

What should I do with it?

When can you use Oracle? How many questions can you ask?

What other powers did you get?

[Swowl]

Glooble - are you like one of the listed orders? If you are Mix, maybe you could ask MOs something like “which order has the IC activation power” (assuming that was the speacial power). Or how much it costs or something like that. That would of all been determined pre readomizor

[Swowl]

Eddie can you drop me a line when you get a chance plz

[MiX]

There's a much better way to use the oracle, and it's as a cop shot. I can do it during the day so I'd like for town to collectively decide on who needs to be copped as I wasn't really paying attention D2 and D3.

I didn't expect to be town.

[Swowl]

There's a much better way to use the oracle, and it's as a cop shot. I can do it during the day so I'd like for town to collectively decide on who needs to be copped as I wasn't really paying attention D2 and D3.

I didn't expect to be town.

How does oracle turn into a cop shot?
And i assume that means you only get one question?

[MiX]

There's a much better way to use the oracle, and it's as a cop shot. I can do it during the day so I'd like for town to collectively decide on who needs to be copped as I wasn't really paying attention D2 and D3.

I didn't expect to be town.

How does oracle turn into a cop shot?
And i assume that means you only get one question?

With the mystical power of asking the right questions.

It's a 1-shot, yes.

[LaLight]

someone stole half my spheres. I guess I will vote for them, vote: hypercube

[Dylan32]

Is the oracle question limited to stuff that mail-mi could answer before randomizing who is what? If so, I think you should run the question you are going to ask by us before trying to cop someone, because I'm don't know how you are thinking you can pull that off.

[MiX]

Is the oracle question limited to stuff that mail-mi could answer before randomizing who is what? If so, I think you should run the question you are going to ask by us before trying to cop someone, because I'm don't know how you are thinking you can pull that off.

Yes. The cop thing is I can ask if there's scum in an order, which is...really good.

[Rhand]

@Faust did you not put your spheres out?

[Dylan32]

Is the oracle question limited to stuff that mail-mi could answer before randomizing who is what? If so, I think you should run the question you are going to ask by us before trying to cop someone, because I'm don't know how you are thinking you can pull that off.

Yes. The cop thing is I can ask if there's scum in an order, which is...really good.

ok... that's basically the same thing I said to ask that you said absolutely not, except if order+alignment were randomized independently, your question would be unanswerable, where mine would get an answer.

[MiX]

Is the oracle question limited to stuff that mail-mi could answer before randomizing who is what? If so, I think you should run the question you are going to ask by us before trying to cop someone, because I'm don't know how you are thinking you can pull that off.

Yes. The cop thing is I can ask if there's scum in an order, which is...really good.

ok... that's basically the same thing I said to ask that you said absolutely not, except if order+alignment were randomized independently, your question would be unanswerable, where mine would get an answer.

But your question doesn't tell us anything about scum, just how the setup was randomized.

[hypercube]

Shouldn't you all be trying to use your votes to find scum or whatever? This is too easy.

[Dylan32]

Is the oracle question limited to stuff that mail-mi could answer before randomizing who is what? If so, I think you should run the question you are going to ask by us before trying to cop someone, because I'm don't know how you are thinking you can pull that off.

Yes. The cop thing is I can ask if there's scum in an order, which is...really good.

ok... that's basically the same thing I said to ask that you said absolutely not, except if order+alignment were randomized independently, your question would be unanswerable, where mine would get an answer.

But your question doesn't tell us anything about scum, just how the setup was randomized.

If you replace in a specific order where I said "order X", and that order couldn't have been scum aligned, you would know anyone who claimed (and was reasonably likely truthful) about being that order is probably town.

[MiX]

Is the oracle question limited to stuff that mail-mi could answer before randomizing who is what? If so, I think you should run the question you are going to ask by us before trying to cop someone, because I'm don't know how you are thinking you can pull that off.

Yes. The cop thing is I can ask if there's scum in an order, which is...really good.

ok... that's basically the same thing I said to ask that you said absolutely not, except if order+alignment were randomized independently, your question would be unanswerable, where mine would get an answer.

But your question doesn't tell us anything about scum, just how the setup was randomized.

If you replace in a specific order where I said "order X", and that order couldn't have been scum aligned, you would know anyone who claimed (and was reasonably likely truthful) about being that order is probably town.

Right, but if it could, we would've learned nothing.

[Rhand]

Good questions could be:
Does mafia have access to the abrasion surge?
Did mafia have multiple players from the same order?

[Dylan32]

Ok, let's look best/worst case with both of our wordings.

Yours
Best case: Get yes or no answer to whether scum is in a certain order.
Worst case: Not a valid question, waste your ability.

Mine
Best case: A "no" response almost ICs anyone who is that order if you believe their claim.
Worst case: A "yes" means scum had a chance of rolling the specified order, although it's not clear if they did.
No chance of being invalid.

ppe 2

Obviously, your best case is definitely the best, but it's a literal coin toss depending on how mail-mi rolled the setup, and your worst case is a complete waste.
My best case is pretty darn good, but my worst case at least provides useful info, namely that either A) order+alignment are linked somehow and there's scum in that order or B) order+alignment and completely independent and scum could be any order.

[Dylan32]

Ok, so my worst case is only marginally useful depending on if A or B is true, but it's still better than a totally invalid question.

[MiX]

"Not a valid question" doesn't waste my ability. Why would it?

[Dylan32]

"Not a valid question" doesn't waste my ability. Why would it?

An unanswerable question could be treated the same as a cop result that was blocked, no result.

[MiX]

Look, I'm addicted to being anti-town, okay? I forgot that I asked if it was fine to ask the type of question that I'm proposing to ask, and the mods said it was okay. So, there's no worst case.

Also I really think you're wrong, but that's personal.

Just accept that I'm having a hard time transitioning into being town right now, and I'm sorry for this and future misunderstandings.

PPE 1

[Dylan32]

Also, I've literally never been in a game with a oracle, so my info is entirely operating assuming it acts normally as described on mafiascum wiki.

ppe I mean, if you got permission from the mod to use that question, then yours is unquestionably better haha. But if it was unknown, I was worried it was risky.

[Greathallscout]

someone stole half my spheres. I guess I will vote for them, vote: hypercube

What do you mean by half your spheres?

[MiX]

Setup Information
5. Thieving: Each player has the chance to steal other players' spheres that they left out during a highstorm. Players can only steal from members of their same House. To attempt to steal, a player posts Steal from PlayerY in their personal QT during a highstorm. If only 1 person steals from PlayerX, they will receive half of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm. If two players steal from PlayerX, each player will receive one third of the spheres that PlayerX left out in the highstorm, and etc.

Read setups! I know it's been forever since the game started, but come on, we were just in a highstorm!

Sorry for not trying to be town. I'm still getting used to it.

[Greathallscout]

Any thoughts on the following?:N1 Faust got no result on chairs, while jimmmm says Swowl, galzria, GHS, Glooble, cayvie targeted faust? Cayvie probably watched. Glooble didnt do anything bad. I mod copped . swowl and galzria doctored him. Would scum roleSTOP chairs over roleBLOCKing? Assuming not, then one one of chairs/swowl/galzria/faust/jimmmm lied?

[MiX]

Any thoughts on the following?:N1 Faust got no result on chairs, while jimmmm says Swowl, galzria, GHS, Glooble, cayvie targeted faust? Cayvie probably watched. Glooble didnt do anything bad. I mod copped . swowl and galzria doctored him. Would scum roleSTOP chairs over roleBLOCKing? Assuming not, then one one of chairs/swowl/galzria/faust/jimmmm lied?

I don't understand what you're implying. Where is the lie?

[Greathallscout]

@mix lalight had 45 dun spheres I wanted to know what half would be

[MiX]

@mix lalight had 45 dun spheres I wanted to know what half would be

...why?

[Greathallscout]

@mix How could faust get no result on chairs if chairs claimed to do actions?

[MiX]

Okay, I'm going to bed, this talk's anti-town.

I'm really not used to this.

Don't hammer hypercube, I should do the oracle this day.

@mix How could faust get no result on chairs if chairs claimed to do actions?

He's a watcher, not a tracker. What did chairs claim anyway?

[Greathallscout]

Okay, I'm going to bed, this talk's anti-town.

I'm really not used to this.

Don't hammer hypercube, I should do the oracle this day.

@mix How could faust get no result on chairs if chairs claimed to do actions?

He's a watcher, not a tracker. What did chairs claim anyway?

yeah I'm tired and being stupid

[Glooble]

Chairs full claimed to me in House Aladar. I’m like 70- 80% sure he’s town.

Do we know if someone would still show up as targeting a person to investigators if they were roleblocked?

[Jimmmmm]

Checking in; I would vote hyper but happy to give MiX more time (it's L-2ish I think). I'm not looking at doing any more re-reads until Tomorrow.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie can you drop me a line when you get a chance plz

”I shall come to thee at once.

Glooble immediately following, Faust is a likely third visit? Sir Dylan in the time to come?

I am a popular fellow, and it seems that there is little time to accomplish all I need to say.”

[Swowl]

speaking to eddie

[MiX]

I'd really just like to know who needs a cop check.

[Greathallscout]

Did faust claim his special power?

[MiX]

Did faust claim his special power?

It's the squire thing, right?

[Greathallscout]

Chairs full claimed to me in House Aladar. I’m like 70- 80% sure he’s town.

Can we hear the claim or are you keeping it private for a reason?

[Rhand]

I'd really just like to know who needs a cop check.

Galz maybe?

[Greathallscout]

I'd really just like to know who needs a cop check.

Galz maybe?

yeah galz is on the top of my list

[MiX]

Okay, Glooble, what do you think?

Which order is Galz in and who else has it?

[scolapasta]

why not Jimmmmm?

[Glooble]

Chairs full claimed to me in House Aladar. I’m like 70- 80% sure he’s town.

Can we hear the claim or are you keeping it private for a reason?

I just figured I’d let chairs do it himself.

[scolapasta]

Are we finishing up the mass claim, then? Who's next - is it chairs?

[faust]

@Faust did you not put your spheres out?

Yeah err sorry I forgot to put in an order before the VLA.

[faust]

Chairs full claimed to me in House Aladar. I’m like 70- 80% sure he’s town.

Do we know if someone would still show up as targeting a person to investigators if they were roleblocked?

I have never seen it being handled that way. Every game I can remember, if someone is blocked then they don't do any targeting.

[faust]

Vote: hypercube

There was an argument to be made to keep him alive so I can use my powers but given that I forgot to infuse my spheres that's no longer relevant.

[faust]

But also unvote

because we should make a night action plan so we can catch the remaining scum.

[Greathallscout]

Which order is Galz in and who else has it?

Edgedancer and swowl

[chairs]

I am house aladar

N1 I used my cop and doc shot as discussed. N2 I had insufficient storm light to do anything.

Did not bid on anything.

Did not steal spheres during the high storm.

I'm a truthwatcher or whatever. Oracle is my order power but unlike mix I don't see it as viable for cop shots.

Phone posting.

If there's any data still needed that I didn't share Glooble should be able to claim what i gave him if I don't come back on - my fiancée is in town and I am focused on time with her

[Glooble]

I’m a bondsmith. N1 I strengthened Faust. N2 I strengthened chairs. My IC power cost all but 10 of my spheres, so I couldn’t use my roleblocker or rolestopper powers. Tonight I can.

[Greathallscout]

For glooble to arrange:

Cop

1. chairs
2.GHS(modcop and strengthener)

Doctor

1.chairs
2.swowl
3.galzria

Watcher

1.rhand(also bodyguard/blocker/stopper)
2.jimmm(also bodyguard/blocker/stopper)
3.lalight (also follows)
(4. faust- no stormlight)

Lightweaver(tracker and inventor)

1.scolapasta

Vig

1.dylan
2. Lalight

Bondsmith (strengthener/blocker/stopper)-

1. glooble

remaining: Mix ; Eddie : Hypercube

[faust]

It is highly likely that scum have access to the abrasion surge. We should focus our efforts on Galzria, Swowl, Dylan.

[Dylan32]

I didn't get enough spheres to vig. Galz pushed pretty hard to make sure I wouldn't.

[MiX]

Well chairs, you can ask something like "are there mafia-aligned Edgedancers" and I'll ask "are there mafia-aligned Duskbringers", this way we should be able to cover both things.

Although I'd like for one of us to do the question first, because if there are mafia-aligned Edgedancers then we should sort those out first, right.

I'm thinking I should ask the first question. What do you think Glooble?

[faust]

So, Mi, are you like a full-on Truthwatcher now or do you just happen to have the same power as chairs?

[faust]

So, Mi, are you like a full-on Truthwatcher now or do you just happen to have the same power as chairs?

Sorry, the X got swallowed.

[MiX]

I have other powers, this is one of them. I claimed the rest to Uncle.

[faust]

I'd like MiX to ask how much the bondsmith order power costs, or somethingelse that is not yet publicly known and wouldn't be known to scum either.

[Galzria]

I didn't get enough spheres to vig. Galz pushed pretty hard to make sure I wouldn't.

This is accurate. My original suggestion was that, as I had no huge use for spheres (15 for a Doctor shot which has a slim chance of hitting the correct target, and only matters if they aren’t Rolestopped or I’m not blocked):

Dylan could set out 55 spheres, and he needed 50 to Vig. If one of Scola or I stole from him we would receive 27, and Dylan would keep 28 (I assumed he gets the rounded up half). He would need 22 more spheres to reach 50. I suggested Scola & I only place out 42 so that the most Dylan could get from us was 21. I offered Scola to be the one to steal from Dylan because, as I said, I don’t need the spheres.

This would give me 42, Scola 42+27, and Dylan 28. Dylan could then gain an additional 21 from either Scola or me depending on who he stole from.

Scola rejected the plan though as he wanted to guarantee he ended with at least 60 or more, and if Dylan stole from him he wouldn’t reach that value.

In the end Scola & I both put out 20 Dun to protect our charge. I assume Scola stole from Dylan. I attempted to steal from Scola to keep him honest from charging all 90 of his spheres (which is how I know that he did in fact use the 20 Dun as we stated).

I have 50 now. I assume Dylan has 28 & Scola has 97.

[MiX]

I'd like MiX to ask how much the bondsmith order power costs, or somethingelse that is not yet publicly known and wouldn't be known to scum either.

Boring. I'd rather die and give you information than prove I'm an oracle.

I can die now! I don't need to do self-preservation anymore.

[faust]

I'd like MiX to ask how much the bondsmith order power costs, or somethingelse that is not yet publicly known and wouldn't be known to scum either.

Boring. I'd rather die and give you information than prove I'm an oracle.

I can die now! I don't need to do self-preservation anymore.

Or you could ask whether we can trust Eddie. I still don't know the guy's win condition and it bothers me.

[faust]

I just don't think we need more info on Galz/Dylan/Swowl, we have plenty of investigative powers.

[MiX]

I'd like MiX to ask how much the bondsmith order power costs, or somethingelse that is not yet publicly known and wouldn't be known to scum either.

Boring. I'd rather die and give you information than prove I'm an oracle.

I can die now! I don't need to do self-preservation anymore.

Or you could ask whether we can trust Eddie. I still don't know the guy's win condition and it bothers me.

We can just kill him when we're out of leads. And then me. We have enough time to test us.

I just don't think we need more info on Galz/Dylan/Swowl, we have plenty of investigative powers.

Hmm. That's understandable.

How would you make an oracle question that finds out whether uncle's a survivor or not?

[Uncleeurope]

I'd like MiX to ask how much the bondsmith order power costs, or somethingelse that is not yet publicly known and wouldn't be known to scum either.

Boring. I'd rather die and give you information than prove I'm an oracle.

I can die now! I don't need to do self-preservation anymore.

Or you could ask whether we can trust Eddie. I still don't know the guy's win condition and it bothers me.

We can just kill him when we're out of leads. And then me. We have enough time to test us.

I just don't think we need more info on Galz/Dylan/Swowl, we have plenty of investigative powers.

Hmm. That's understandable.

How would you make an oracle question that finds out whether uncle's a survivor or not?

”’‘Tis a simple matter, simply divine whether or not ‘The King’s Wit’ wins the game by surviving to the end of days, with no other terms to such a victory.”

[MiX]

Does that even work? I mean, what if there was no "The King's Wit" in the game? How could the mods answer?

Also, EFHW was right, dammit I feel like an idiot.

[Uncleeurope]

”I will also throw out another tidbit of useful information regarding Oracles. The term ‘Survivor’ is but a self-titled term that accurately represents my victory condition. It doth not appear in any document that I have received, despite its meaning ringing true.”

[Uncleeurope]

Does that even work? I mean, what if there was no "The King's Wit" in the game? How could the mods answer?

Also, EFHW was right, dammit I feel like an idiot.

”The answer would have to be ‘no’ which would paint me a liar regardless.”

[MiX]

”I will also throw out another tidbit of useful information regarding Oracles. The term ‘Survivor’ is but a self-titled term that accurately represents my victory condition. It doth not appear in any document that I have received, despite its meaning ringing true.”

I confirm this.

Does that even work? I mean, what if there was no "The King's Wit" in the game? How could the mods answer?

Also, EFHW was right, dammit I feel like an idiot.

”The answer would have to be ‘no’ which would paint me a liar regardless.”

Why would it have to be a no?

[faust]

How would you make an oracle question that finds out whether uncle's a survivor or not?

"Can all players who are not Knights Radiant win with town?"

[MiX]

How would you make an oracle question that finds out whether uncle's a survivor or not?

"Can all players who are not Knights Radiant win with town?"

Uh...maybe he can't win with town anymore? It's also weird with my own win condition...thing...

Not bad. But it doesn't tell us how he wins with town if he does.

[Greathallscout]

Putting it out there- Hyper could have been exile proofed so we shouldn't wait until deadline to exile him.

Also wouldn't it be useful to ask "how many scum are there?"

[MiX]

Putting it out there- Hyper could have been exile proofed so we shouldn't wait until deadline to exile him.

Also wouldn't it be useful to ask "how many scum are there?"

Yes, but there's better questions.

I suppose it is incredibly likely hyper's exileproof today. Huh.

[Glooble]

Oh shoot. That's definitely something we should have considered.

How likely is it scum has a second alignment inverter? Given that joth was one and is dead? Seems unlikely to me.

I'm not sure it makes sense for me to direct our cop shots. It definitely doesn't make sense for me to direct our watchers though.

[Greathallscout]

How likely is it scum has a second alignment inverter? Given that joth was one and is dead? Seems unlikely to me.

I wouldn't make that assumption

[Galzria]

It’s worth pointing out that a scum!Edgedancer could make Hyper lynch-proof today for 30 Spheres.

😢 It’s like nobody reads my posts.

[MiX]

It’s worth pointing out that a scum!Edgedancer could make Hyper lynch-proof today for 30 Spheres.

😢 It’s like nobody reads my posts.

Given you're 1 of 2 Edgedancer claims...something.

Yeah, I've been there, sorry.

[Galzria]

It’s worth pointing out that a scum!Edgedancer could make Hyper lynch-proof today for 30 Spheres.

😢 It’s like nobody reads my posts.

Given you're 1 of 2 Edgedancer claims...something.

Yeah, I've been there, sorry.

I had no spheres. Also I’m Town.

So if he’s lynchproof it’s done by Swowl or Chairs.

[Swowl]

@ mix - did you know the conditions which would switch you to town aligned prior to it happening? and did you know the role that you would get (assuming it changed) if that were to happen?

[Swowl]

OK here is the updated list. Stealing from GHS's idea of grouping people based on the access to which powers they have.
I think I have it all filled out. I think it would be beneficial to do claims of actions that happened during the Highstorm, with current sphere counts, but if not, then there will be some blank spaces...Lemme know if there are any errors.



BONDSMITHS [RB/RS, Strengthener/Gov; Activated IC (all but 10)]

1. Glooble
- House Aladar
- Starting Spheres = ?
- N1 Strengthened faust, IC power (bringing them to 10 total spheres)
- N2 Strengthened chairs
- Highstorm action = ?
- Current Spheres = ?


WINDRUNNERS [RB/RS, Lightning Rod/Watcher; SP = BG (5)]

1. Hypercube
- House Kholin

2. Jimmm
- House Sebarial
- Initial spheres 100/0; Current spheres 70/30
- N1 watched faust; saw Swowl, galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
- N2 watched Didds; no result
- Highstorm Action = None?
- Current Spheres = ?

3. Rhand
- House Seabrial
- Initial spheres 50/20; Current spheres 5/65
- N1 blocked Hypercube, watched MiX; saw Chairs, WCD, Pasta
- N2 watched faust; saw LL
- Highstorm actions = ?
- Current Spheres = ?

3. faust
- Windrunner Squire. Hood with Hyper. Loses abilities if Hyper dies.
- House Sebarial
- Initial spheres 20/30; Current spheres 0/40 (bid 10 dun on Larken)
- N1 Watched Chairs; nothing.
- D2 Drained Galz
- N2 BG Rhand
- Highstorm actions = None. Forgot to submit.
- Current Spheres = 0/40


SKYBREAKERS [Lightning Rod/Watcher, Vig/Drainer; Follower (5)]

1. LaLight
- House Kholin
- Initial spheres 65/5; Current spheres 25/45
- N1 followed Pasta; Tracker, Inventor. Watched Hypercube; saw Rhand, GHS, Joth
- N2 follwed GHS; ModCop. Watched faust; saw Rhand
- Highstorm actions =
- Current Spheres =


DUSTBRINGERS [Vig/Drainer, Acetic-izer/Ninja; Reporter (5)]

1. Dylan32
- House Sadeas
- Initial spheres 35/20; Current spheres 0/55
- N1 no actions
- N2 no actions
- Highstorm actions =
- Current Spheres =


EDGEDANCERS [Acetic-izer/Ninja, Doctor/Lynchproofer; Nexus (50)]

1. Swowl
- House Kholin
- Initial spheres 75/20; Current spheres 15/80
- N1 doctor faust + acetic self.
- N2 doctor Chairs.
- Highstorm actions = Pay 15 infused for Protection. No stealing. Left out 80 Dun.
- Current Spheres = 80/0

2. Galzria
- House Sadeas
- Initial spheres 70/0; Current spheres 0/70
- N1 doctored faust.
- N2 no action.
- Highstorm actions = Pay 20 dun for Protection. Attempt to steal from Pasta; failed. Left out 50 Dun.
- Current Spheres = 50/0


TRUTHWATCHERS [Doctor/Lynchproofer, Alignment Inverter/Cop; Oracle (?)]

1. Chairs
- House Aladar
- Starting Spheres
- N1 cops MiX + Doctors Glooble
- N2 no action
- Highstorm Actions = No stealing.
- Current Spheres =


ELSECALLERS [Inventor, Commuter/Tracker; Jail Keeper (15)]

1. scolapasta
- House Sadea
- Initial spheres 60/40; Current spheres 10/90
- N1 QT for Joth/Glooble, Track Mix to nobody.
- N2 tracked Chairs to ?, Invented weak modifier for Cube.
- Highstorm Actions = Left out Protection Spheres and
- Current Spheres =


STONEWARDENS [Bus Driver/ModCop, Strengthener/Gov; Bulletproof (30)]

1. GreatHallScout
- House Kholin
- Initial spheres 60/30; Current spheres 0/90
- N1 ModCopped Faust/Cube; same alignment
- N2 ModCopped Swowl/Jimmm; no result
- Highstorm Actions = ?
- Current Spheres = ?


THE REST

1. Eddie
- All Houses
- 3rd Party Communicator
- No known win con
- Does not use spheres?

2. MiX
- House Sebarial
- Started 3rd party, now turned to Town.
- Claiming to be Truthwatcher
- No infused spheres

[LaLight]

i currently have 48 spheres, all infused.

[Rhand]

I stole from Faust but he didn’t put anything out.
I paid protection because of MiX.
I have 50 infused now.

[Rhand]

@Chairs: how much does oracle cost?

[Rhand]

I hope this hasn’t bene asked before, but
@Jimmmmm: why did you not use your roleblock ability with all those spheres you had?

[faust]

It’s worth pointing out that a scum!Edgedancer could make Hyper lynch-proof today for 30 Spheres.

😢 It’s like nobody reads my posts.

Given you're 1 of 2 Edgedancer claims...something.

Yeah, I've been there, sorry.

I had no spheres. Also I’m Town.

So if he’s lynchproof it’s done by Swowl or Chairs.

That's a good point. So we lynch hyper, if he's lynchproof we move on to Swowl.

[faust]

Vote: hypercube

[Jimmmmm]

I hope this hasn’t bene asked before, but
@Jimmmmm: why did you not use your roleblock ability with all those spheres you had?

See #2286 - #2293.

[hypercube]

vote: hypercube

[MiX]

Fine I guess I need to think of a good oracle on the spot, right?

God dammit faust.

[MiX]

Also I'm not a truthwatcher. I just happen to have oracle and I think that's the best one to claim publicly.

What's best, "how many mafia-aligned players can there be besides my own role" or "If the King's Wit exists, can they only win if town loses?"

[MiX]

@ mix - did you know the conditions which would switch you to town aligned prior to it happening? and did you know the role that you would get (assuming it changed) if that were to happen?

No, no, all I knew is that I could change forms during a highstorm.

[faust]

Also I'm not a truthwatcher. I just happen to have oracle and I think that's the best one to claim publicly.

What's best, "how many mafia-aligned players can there be besides my own role" or "If the King's Wit exists, can they only win if town loses?"

I vote for the former.

[MiX]

Also I'm not a truthwatcher. I just happen to have oracle and I think that's the best one to claim publicly.

What's best, "how many mafia-aligned players can there be besides my own role" or "If the King's Wit exists, can they only win if town loses?"

I vote for the former.

I'm dumb, I need to do yes/no questions.

What's best, "can there be 5 mafia-aligned players at a time besides my own role" or "If the King's Wit exists, can they only win if town loses?"

[faust]

Also I'm not a truthwatcher. I just happen to have oracle and I think that's the best one to claim publicly.

What's best, "how many mafia-aligned players can there be besides my own role" or "If the King's Wit exists, can they only win if town loses?"

I vote for the former.

I'm dumb, I need to do yes/no questions.

What's best, "can there be 5 mafia-aligned players at a time besides my own role" or "If the King's Wit exists, can they only win if town loses?"

I prefer my previous suggestion over both of these.

[MiX]

What's your previous suggestion?

[faust]

What's your previous suggestion?

How would you make an oracle question that finds out whether uncle's a survivor or not?

"Can all players who are not Knights Radiant win with town?"

[faust]

You can exclude your own role if you want.

[MiX]

Okay. Here goes nothing then.

[Glooble]

Eddie I would love that piece of info you promised me before the day ends.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie I would love that piece of info you promised me before the day ends.

”I have been on my way to your presence for quite some time now, a much longer journey than I had anticipated.

Perhaps I will need the help from the gods to guide me to you.”

[MiX]

Eddie I would love that piece of info you promised me before the day ends.

I have it, don't worry.

[MiX]

Results are in from the Oracle...

All non-Knights can win with town.

Ok let's kill hyper.

Vote: hyper for good measure.

[mail-mi]

Innia, in her recordings of children's folktales, speaks of the Voidbringers as being "Like a highstorm, regular in their coming, yet always unexpected." The word Desolation is used twice in reference to their appearances. See pages 57, 59, and 64 of Tales by Hearthlight.

Vote Count 3.FINAL

hypercube (8): chairs, Glooble, Dylan32, Rhand, MiX, scolapasta, LaLight, faust

Not Voting (6): hypercube, Swowl, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, GreatHallScout, Galzria

With 14 alive it took 8 to lynch.

Twilight starts now and will last 6 hours or until each player has checked in.

[faust]

I guess he's lynchable after all.

[scolapasta]

I didn't get enough spheres to vig. Galz pushed pretty hard to make sure I wouldn't.

Hmm, so did you not put out enough spheres? I did not steal from you.

Galz is saying he stole from me and that's how he knows I used protection (which I did). If someone stole from you, he is bluffing. But that would be risky ish.

So I'm more likely to assume you didn't put enough out, thinking one if us would steal from you. (or you protected, as well).

There's not much time during twilight, but I think it might be smart to try to clear this up if we can before night.

In case I die, and/or there is a vig shot (only other known vig shot is LL, correct?)

[MiX]

Ah...scola...uh...

Don't scumread people based on "no one was supposed to steal from Dylan".

Hahaha... Ha.

I'm sorry...

[Galzria]

I didn't get enough spheres to vig. Galz pushed pretty hard to make sure I wouldn't.

Hmm, so did you not put out enough spheres? I did not steal from you.

Galz is saying he stole from me and that's how he knows I used protection (which I did). If someone stole from you, he is bluffing. But that would be risky ish.

So I'm more likely to assume you didn't put enough out, thinking one if us would steal from you. (or you protected, as well).

There's not much time during twilight, but I think it might be smart to try to clear this up if we can before night.

In case I die, and/or there is a vig shot (only other known vig shot is LL, correct?)

This is good info. Options become:

A) Dylan didn’t put out 50+ Sphere’s
B) Dylan DID put out 50+ and lied about having enough to Vig
C) You (or I) am lying and stole from Dylan
D) Eddie lied and stole Sphere’s from Dylan
E) MiX somehow did something.

The last two options as pretty ridiculous, but included them anyway. The reality is that either Dylan didn’t put out 50+, or one of us 3 is lying.

[MiX]

Option F) Forget about it, okay?

I'm sooooorryyyy...

[Galzria]

Ah...scola...uh...

Don't scumread people based on "no one was supposed to steal from Dylan".

Hahaha... Ha.

I'm sorry...

The plan was that Scola and I both steal from Dylan. But I didn’t (and don’t) trust that Scola’s night choices have made sense coming from town (creating the QT between Joth/Glooble on the night Joth gives Glooble the item feels awfully convenient - and making Hyper weak seems awfully impractical). So I stole from him to try and ensure he didn’t try and sneak a full charge of 90 spheres. He also, apparently, didn’t steal from Dylan.

[faust]

This is good info. Options become:

A) Dylan didn’t put out 50+ Sphere’s
B) Dylan DID put out 50+ and lied about having enough to Vig
C) You (or I) am lying and stole from Dylan
D) Eddie lied and stole Sphere’s from Dylan
E) MiX somehow did something.

The last two options as pretty ridiculous, but included them anyway. The reality is that either Dylan didn’t put out 50+, or one of us 3 is lying.

F) Thinking scola would steal, Dylan paid sphere protection

[Dylan32]

This is good info. Options become:

A) Dylan didn’t put out 50+ Sphere’s
B) Dylan DID put out 50+ and lied about having enough to Vig
C) You (or I) am lying and stole from Dylan
D) Eddie lied and stole Sphere’s from Dylan
E) MiX somehow did something.

The last two options as pretty ridiculous, but included them anyway. The reality is that either Dylan didn’t put out 50+, or one of us 3 is lying.

F) Thinking scola would steal, Dylan paid sphere protection

yes, out of spite

[faust]

This is good info. Options become:

A) Dylan didn’t put out 50+ Sphere’s
B) Dylan DID put out 50+ and lied about having enough to Vig
C) You (or I) am lying and stole from Dylan
D) Eddie lied and stole Sphere’s from Dylan
E) MiX somehow did something.

The last two options as pretty ridiculous, but included them anyway. The reality is that either Dylan didn’t put out 50+, or one of us 3 is lying.

F) Thinking scola would steal, Dylan paid sphere protection

yes, out of spite

As far as motivations for night actions go, spite is definitely in the top 5.

[Galzria]

This is good info. Options become:

A) Dylan didn’t put out 50+ Sphere’s
B) Dylan DID put out 50+ and lied about having enough to Vig
C) You (or I) am lying and stole from Dylan
D) Eddie lied and stole Sphere’s from Dylan
E) MiX somehow did something.

The last two options as pretty ridiculous, but included them anyway. The reality is that either Dylan didn’t put out 50+, or one of us 3 is lying.

F) Thinking scola would steal, Dylan paid sphere protection

Yes, sorry, also possible. That would save him 7 spheres and guarantee Scola (and I) didn’t get them. Actually, more - because had Scola and I both stolen from him we would’ve taken 36 combined.

[faust]

creating the QT between Joth/Glooble on the night Joth gives Glooble the item feels awfully convenient

Creating a QT between the IC and the person the IC knows best is obviously the best thing you can do with a Neighborizer.

[MiX]

creating the QT between Joth/Glooble on the night Joth gives Glooble the item feels awfully convenient

Creating a QT between the IC and the person the IC knows best is obviously the best thing you can do with a Neighborizer.

It also made scum have to claim first, which is what caught him. It's clear scola's townie with the QT.

What you said is null, as it's best regardless of scola's alignment. But it's still true 

[faust]

Hot take: Galzria is a scum.

I'm gonna stick to that until Galzria flips or I get motivated to do a reread. The former is more likely.

[MiX]

Hot take: Galzria is a scum.

I'm gonna stick to that until Galzria flips or I get motivated to do a reread. The former is more likely.

Can you expand on why? I have stuff to do at night and idk who to target.

[Galzria]

Hot take: Galzria is a scum.

I'm gonna stick to that until Galzria flips or I get motivated to do a reread. The former is more likely.

Hot take: Yawn.

[scolapasta]

Ah...scola...uh...

Don't scumread people based on "no one was supposed to steal from Dylan".

Hahaha... Ha.

I'm sorry...

Agreed. In the hypothetical, I wasn't scumereading Galz for stealing when we weren't supposed to (which I'm also not sure is whay we agreed to), but for lying about it after (saying he stole from me).

Anyway, I think it was useful to mention this before nightfall, since some piece of info was either false or missing. And it seems like we found what was missing (Dylan used protection plan) - or at least what could have been missing, as this could still be false, as well.

[scolapasta]

I still am curious why Galz would choose to steal from me and not Dylan.

He was the one who was most worried about Dylan having a vig shot. (I was not as much, any vig shot would immediately make Dylan a suspect). But he didn't steal from Dylan, assuming I would, even though I never said I would or agreed to it. And he tried to steal from me when I said I would protect.

Protecting still allowed me to infuse 70 spheres and I know have a total of 80, which allows me for at least 2 nights worth of actions, if I want.

Why not steal from Dylan? How does 20 more help me that much more (keeping me honest), instead of your stated goal of not having Dylan having the vig shot.

[Dylan32]

In our house, Galz straight up said he would rather me have a fuller set of spheres than you, and so I'm not surprised he would steal from you not me.

[Dylan32]

Although, I must say I'm extremely disappointed that I paid for protection and neither of you tried to steal...

[scolapasta]

In our house, Galz straight up said he would rather me have a fuller set of spheres than you, and so I'm not surprised he would steal from you not me.

True, I had forgotten about that.

Even still, if it had been me, I'd have used this logic (with arbitrary #s, of course):
I'd rather steal from scola 60-40, but there's an 80% chance scola protects. So stealing from Dylan is more likely to accomplish my "lesser" goal. Granted I'm not factoring in you protecting, but I think that chance was lower as you needed to not protect to get your 50 for a vig.

Again, not saying this is necessarily evidence for scum!galzria, just that it was a questionable decision. (sorry)

Anyway, this info's out there, and that is what was important before nightfall.

[Swowl]

Hot take: Galzria is a scum.

I'm gonna stick to that until Galzria flips or I get motivated to do a reread. The former is more likely.

What would be your hot take on WCD's death if Galz is skum (given he had 0 spheres)?

[Dylan32]

In our house, Galz straight up said he would rather me have a fuller set of spheres than you, and so I'm not surprised he would steal from you not me.

True, I had forgotten about that.

Even still, if it had been me, I'd have used this logic (with arbitrary #s, of course):
I'd rather steal from scola 60-40, but there's an 80% chance scola protects. So stealing from Dylan is more likely to accomplish my "lesser" goal. Granted I'm not factoring in you protecting, but I think that chance was lower as you needed to not protect to get your 50 for a vig.

Again, not saying this is necessarily evidence for scum!galzria, just that it was a questionable decision. (sorry)

Anyway, this info's out there, and that is what was important before nightfall.

Galz also very clearly stated their goal was not to accumulate spheres, as they believed their abilities are of marginal value. They thought all of us getting as few spheres as possible was best.

[hypercube]

twilightvig: Glooble

[MiX]

twilightvig: Glooble

twilightdoctor: Glooble

Lol I have a bunch of powers now. It's so weeeeird.

[MiX]

Wait, no, I just did an anti-town post, dammit.

Sorry. I don't have a twilight doctor. In case you were wondering.

Hey hypercube did you concede before or after you knew Galz had no stormlight? This is a question for everyone by the way.

[LaLight]

checking in

[Glooble]

I’m guessing this is a ploy by hyper to get me to say things in thread so my knowledge doesn’t die with me. It’s not going to work.

[Dylan32]

I’m guessing this is a ploy by hyper to get me to say things in thread so my knowledge doesn’t die with me. It’s not going to work.

You should tell Eddie maybe if you haven't already just in case if there is any chance hyper does have this ability.

[MiX]

I’m guessing this is a ploy by hyper to get me to say things in thread so my knowledge doesn’t die with me. It’s not going to work.

You want knowledge to die with you?

[Glooble]

I don’t think I know anything useful I haven’t told Eddie.

[faust]

Hot take: Galzria is a scum.

I'm gonna stick to that until Galzria flips or I get motivated to do a reread. The former is more likely.

What would be your hot take on WCD's death if Galz is skum (given he had 0 spheres)?

Like, hyper rolestoppered her?

[Uncleeurope]

Hot take: Galzria is a scum.

I'm gonna stick to that until Galzria flips or I get motivated to do a reread. The former is more likely.

What would be your hot take on WCD's death if Galz is skum (given he had 0 spheres)?

Like, hyper rolestoppered her?

”I would like to speak to thee.”

[Jimmmmm]

checking in

[Swowl]

Hot take: Galzria is a scum.

I'm gonna stick to that until Galzria flips or I get motivated to do a reread. The former is more likely.

What would be your hot take on WCD's death if Galz is skum (given he had 0 spheres)?

Like, hyper rolestoppered her?

Ok yeah that would check out. Nvm.

[LaLight]

checking in

love it

[Swowl]

Other doctors - should we try to coordinate or just kind of go for it blind to keep it off thread?

[scolapasta]

Is there still any time to user eddie to coordinate?

[mail-mi]

Once again, the forces of Honor triumph.

hypercube has been lynched! He was a Mafia Windrunner Traitor!

Night 3 starts now! Actions are due by 5:00am FT on Wednesday, July 1. Day 4 will start sometime between then and 5:00PM on that day.

Thread locked!

[mail-mi]

Tonight, you may bid any number of spheres on a new-and-improved Alerter Fabrial. If you win, you will be told who targeted you and what powers targeted you this night, but not who used which powers.

Remember, you will lose any spheres you bid, and infused spheres are worth more than dun!

[mail-mi]

LaLight has died! He was a Town Skybreaker, of House Kholin.

Day 4 starts now!

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (12): Dylan32, faust, MiX, scolapasta, Swowl, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Galzria, GreatHallScout, chairs, Glooble, Jimmmmm

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 4 lasts until 11:30AM FT on July 8, 2020

Thread unlocked!

[MiX]

Hey, my one townread that was legitimate was correct!

Glooble, claim order!

[Rhand]

I watched LaLight and got no result.
So there’s a rolestopper or Ninja still alive on the scum team.
I blocked Galzria. They’re probably town.

I think it must be Swowl.

[MiX]

Why are our watchers really good?

I did a useless thing that confirms what we already suspected.

[Galzria]

I can confirm Rhand blocked me. I attempted to Doctor Glooble, and I bid 20 on the item.

50 Spheres:
-15 Doctor
-20 Item
Remaining: 15 Spheres

Glooble & Rhand targeted me last night, both Roleblock actions.

[faust]

As will surprise noone, I did nothing.

[faust]

Given that hypercube flipped Traitor, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a second Windrunner scum.

[chairs]

I can haz claim tiem yet?

[Greathallscout]

What does traitor on this site mean?

[faust]

Why are our watchers really good?

I did a useless thing that confirms what we already suspected.

But what was the thing that you did?

[faust]

What does traitor on this site mean?

A member of the mafia that doesn't have access to the factional QT. Whether they know who their partners are varies, usually the rest of the mafia don't know who they are (which would fit with joth's dying words).

[Greathallscout]

What does traitor on this site mean?

A member of the mafia that doesn't have access to the factional QT. Whether they know who their partners are varies, usually the rest of the mafia don't know who they are (which would fit with joth's dying words).

Yeah I was wondering about that. Assuming Joth allignment inveterted cube (targeting a "town" in mafias eyes) and faust is town, mafia would expect the mod cop result to come back as "not-the-same". So by GHSs claim, they narrowed down really easily that either GHS, faust, or hyper is non-town. Why would joth let the whole town know this if it's so obvious to mafia? Maybe he was telling them not to think this "non-town" is a third-party? Also, unless there is other information narrowing it down further, it shoulve been narrowed to 3 not 2.

[MiX]

I followed chairs and well he did town things.

[faust]

I followed chairs and well he did town things.

Why would you follow chairs of all people?

[MiX]

I followed chairs and well he did town things.

Why would you follow chairs of all people?

I thought no one else would do something about him.

[faust]

I followed chairs and well he did town things.

Why would you follow chairs of all people?

I thought no one else would do something about him.

Yeah that's cause he's town.

[MiX]

Oh, when did we learn that?

[faust]

Oh, when did we learn that?

About when he claimed that he townslipped D1.

[MiX]

Oh, when did we learn that?

About when he claimed that he townslipped D1.

Oh yeah!

I knew there was a reason I had him in the town pile, but I have way too many people there.

[MiX]

Ok can I just admit that I don't care about this game?

I just feel like I got the best win condition and I don't need to work anymore.

Good luck town I'll vote for anything, I've done enough right? I scumread all 3 dead scum (eventually for EFHW) and pushed/voted them.

Look, maybe the townslip wasn't enough. I just wanted a result on some of the "well they have to be town because of reads" people.

Whatever.

[faust]

Anyone could do townie actions though. Would have been way more important to figure out whether our Ninjas did something that can be traced.

[MiX]

Anyone could do townie actions though. Would have been way more important to figure out whether our Ninjas did something that can be traced.

How many scum do you think are alive?

[Glooble]

Our options for potential scum are pretty limited. Hopefully chairs has a cop result for us to limit them further.

[MiX]

Our options for potential scum are pretty limited. Hopefully chairs has a cop result for us to limit them further.

He does.

[Greathallscout]

Our options for potential scum are pretty limited. Hopefully chairs has a cop result for us to limit them further.

Hey! I'm a cop too

[scolapasta]

Are we thinking swowl or Jimmmm here? Those are my leading candidates.

[Glooble]

Our options for potential scum are pretty limited. Hopefully chairs has a cop result for us to limit them further.

Hey! I'm a cop too

And what did you learn?

[chairs]

I do have a cop result and I'm holding off until we have more "what did everybody do" (basically pending Glooble deciding it's time for the reveal)

[Swowl]

Are we thinking swowl or Jimmmm here? Those are my leading candidates.

funny. my leading candidates are [Scola, Jimmm].

[faust]

Are we thinking swowl or Jimmmm here? Those are my leading candidates.

funny. my leading candidates are [Scola, Jimmm].

Hey uh wanna claim?

[scolapasta]

Well, if anyone tracked or followed me, they'll know I can be scum (or was blocked or stopped or whatever the term is).

Because I forgot to send in my night actions. Sorry team.

What did you do last night swowl?

[Glooble]

Yeah let's hear Swowl, Jimmm, GHS, and chairs in that order. Unless faust disagrees.

[Swowl]

assuming he does not disagree with at least the part on me, as he just asked for my claim. So I just gonna go.

I doctored Chairs again.
I did not bid on the item.

Started night with 80/0 spheres.
Currently have 65/15 spheres.

[Rhand]

assuming he does not disagree with at least the part on me, as he just asked for my claim. So I just gonna go.

I doctored Chairs again.
I did not bid on the item.

Started night with 80/0 spheres.
Currently have 65/15 spheres.

I sure hope someone tracked this

[Swowl]

assuming he does not disagree with at least the part on me, as he just asked for my claim. So I just gonna go.

I doctored Chairs again.
I did not bid on the item.

Started night with 80/0 spheres.
Currently have 65/15 spheres.

I sure hope someone tracked this

so do I.

[Dylan32]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

[Rhand]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

We know there’s a rolestopper or ninja. At this point I think you should start vigging that POE if you have the stormlight for it.

[Jimmmmm]

I watched chairs and saw LL, Glooble, MiX.
Didn't bid.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh and 70/30 -> 55/45 as expected.

[Galzria]

I watched chairs and saw LL, Glooble, MiX.
Didn't bid.

You watched Chairs, but didn't see Swowl?

assuming he does not disagree with at least the part on me, as he just asked for my claim. So I just gonna go.

I doctored Chairs again.
I did not bid on the item.

Started night with 80/0 spheres.
Currently have 65/15 spheres.

I sure hope someone tracked this

so do I.

[MiX]

Neat, we caught scum.

So, should we vote for them, or Jimmmmm?

[Galzria]

Neat, we caught scum.

So, should we vote for them, or Jimmmmm?

I prefer Jimmmmm over Swowl based off his actions yesterday.

vote: Jimmmmm

But I'm happy to go either way.

[Jimmmmm]

I watched chairs and saw LL, Glooble, MiX.
Didn't bid.

You watched Chairs, but didn't see Swowl?

Correct.

[Galzria]

GHS up to claim, then Chairs result.

[scolapasta]

Has Jimmmm claimed order yet? I may have missed it, but it's not in my notes.

[Galzria]

Actually, vote: Swowl for now. Changed my mind.

[Galzria]

Has Jimmmm claimed order yet? I may have missed it, but it's not in my notes.

Windrunner:

2. Jimmm
- House Sebarial
- Initial spheres 100/0; Current spheres 70/30
- N1 watched faust; saw Swowl, galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
- N2 watched Didds; no result
- Highstorm Action = None?
- Current Spheres = ?

[Jimmmmm]

- Windrunner
- House Sebarial
- Initial spheres 100/0; Current spheres 70/30
- N1 watched faust; saw Swowl, galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
- N2 watched Didds; no result
- Highstorm Action = Stole from MiX but didn't get anything.
- N3 watched chairs; saw LL, Glooble, MiX
- Current Spheres = 55/45

[mail-mi]

A message begins to inscribe itself upon the ground:

"I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating… and it gets everywhere."

[Rhand]

vote: Swowl

[Swowl]

well I def doctored chairs again.
order was confirmed, so it wasn't past deadline or anything.

I cannot come up with the answer upon looking at it, so I will take any help I can get here.

I do not see why skum Jimm would create a CC in a situation where there must be so few skum left.

So I guess I am most suspicious of GHS at this point?

But yeah IDK what to say. I did what I said I did.

[Glooble]

vote: Swowl

I really did target chairs, and I never said I did, which makes me think Jimmm is telling the truth.

[MiX]

Are you sure you didn't Ascetic yourself again Swowl?

Because that's what's looking most likely right now.

Vote: Swosl

[Swowl]

Are you sure you didn't Ascetic yourself again Swowl?

Because that's what's looking most likely right now.

Vote: Swosl

? I would still show to a watcher if acetic right?
And no i didn’t

[Swowl]

vote: Swowl

I really did target chairs, and I never said I did, which makes me think Jimmm is telling the truth.

I mean i am being set up for sure - but also agree now that jimm is unlikely as hell.

[MiX]

Are you sure you didn't Ascetic yourself again Swowl?

Because that's what's looking most likely right now.

Vote: Swosl

? I would still show to a watcher if acetic right?
And no i didn’t

Oh yeah.

Unvote, why wouldn't scum!Swowl doc chairs?

[Swowl]

Are you sure you didn't Ascetic yourself again Swowl?

Because that's what's looking most likely right now.

Vote: Swosl

? I would still show to a watcher if acetic right?
And no i didn’t

Oh yeah.

Unvote, why wouldn't scum!Swowl doc chairs?

I don't understand this. Could you spell it out for the slow kids?

[MiX]

Well, Jimmmmm says you didn't doc chairs. But why wouldn't you doc chairs as scum?

Oh cause you're a ninja, right.

Vote: Swowl.

[Dylan32]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

We know there’s a rolestopper or ninja. At this point I think you should start vigging that POE if you have the stormlight for it.

Yes. I am one of the ninjas, I don't have the stormlight to vig, so I can prove I'm not the ninja we are looking for.

[Swowl]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

We know there’s a rolestopper or ninja. At this point I think you should start vigging that POE if you have the stormlight for it.

Yes. I am one of the ninjas, I don't have the stormlight to vig, so I can prove I'm not the ninja we are looking for.

I mean unless you have a NK, then you do have points for just ninja.
but that still doesn't explain why the hell I did not show up on chairs.

[Swowl]

Well, Jimmmmm says you didn't doc chairs. But why wouldn't you doc chairs as scum?

Oh cause you're a ninja, right.

Vote: Swowl.

ok - I mean still don't have an explanation.... but why the hell would I not just claim to of doctored the person I targeted if I were skum? Even with the claim of no result on LL, I could try to play that off. It would be way less risky than picking someone like chairs - I doctored chairs because they have the oracle shot which is crazy valuable. That is it. IDK what else to say about that. I don't think any skum would of lied about targeting at this point.

Also, how are we explaining away night 1? I was seen doctoring faust!

[MiX]

Well, Jimmmmm says you didn't doc chairs. But why wouldn't you doc chairs as scum?

Oh cause you're a ninja, right.

Vote: Swowl.

ok - I mean still don't have an explanation.... but why the hell would I not just claim to of doctored the person I targeted if I were skum? Even with the claim of no result on LL, I could try to play that off. It would be way less risky than picking someone like chairs - I doctored chairs because they have the oracle shot which is crazy valuable. That is it. IDK what else to say about that. I don't think any skum would of lied about targeting at this point.

Also, how are we explaining away night 1? I was seen doctoring faust!

Well, this night you used Ninja, so the watcher can't see you. But that's terrible since there's a bunch of trackers...

Wait, are there any alive Trackers?

[Swowl]

Well, Jimmmmm says you didn't doc chairs. But why wouldn't you doc chairs as scum?

Oh cause you're a ninja, right.

Vote: Swowl.

ok - I mean still don't have an explanation.... but why the hell would I not just claim to of doctored the person I targeted if I were skum? Even with the claim of no result on LL, I could try to play that off. It would be way less risky than picking someone like chairs - I doctored chairs because they have the oracle shot which is crazy valuable. That is it. IDK what else to say about that. I don't think any skum would of lied about targeting at this point.

Also, how are we explaining away night 1? I was seen doctoring faust!

Well, this night you used Ninja, so the watcher can't see you. But that's terrible since there's a bunch of trackers...

Wait, are there any alive Trackers?

pasta and someone else I think. at least pasta

[Swowl]

checked.
just pasta. LL was "follower" which is what I was thinking of as the other.

[Dylan32]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

We know there’s a rolestopper or ninja. At this point I think you should start vigging that POE if you have the stormlight for it.

Yes. I am one of the ninjas, I don't have the stormlight to vig, so I can prove I'm not the ninja we are looking for.

I mean unless you have a NK, then you do have points for just ninja.
but that still doesn't explain why the hell I did not show up on chairs.

I mean I can drain enough stormlight today using reporter to prove I didn't use any last night, as long as you believe my claim yesterday that I didn't have enough to take a normal vig shot last night (50 needed, 35 after paying for protection during highstorm, 30 remaining).  But yeah, me proving this is separate from sorting out you and Jimmmmm.

ppe

[Swowl]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

We know there’s a rolestopper or ninja. At this point I think you should start vigging that POE if you have the stormlight for it.

Yes. I am one of the ninjas, I don't have the stormlight to vig, so I can prove I'm not the ninja we are looking for.

I mean unless you have a NK, then you do have points for just ninja.
but that still doesn't explain why the hell I did not show up on chairs.

I mean I can drain enough stormlight today using reporter to prove I didn't use any last night, as long as you believe my claim yesterday that I didn't have enough to take a normal vig shot last night (50 needed, 35 after paying for protection during highstorm, 30 remaining).  But yeah, me proving this is separate from sorting out you and Jimmmmm.

ppe

we are not sorting out me and jimm. Unless there was a 5 man freeking skum team jimm never takes the CC here.

[Dylan32]

I mean, the only thing that makes sense with both town that I can think of would be you getting roleblocked, Swowl.

[Swowl]

I mean, the only thing that makes sense with both town that I can think of would be you getting roleblocked, Swowl.

I agree. but Galz saw the blockers on him, and they both confirmed it

[scolapasta]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

We know there’s a rolestopper or ninja. At this point I think you should start vigging that POE if you have the stormlight for it.

Yes. I am one of the ninjas, I don't have the stormlight to vig, so I can prove I'm not the ninja we are looking for.

I mean unless you have a NK, then you do have points for just ninja.
but that still doesn't explain why the hell I did not show up on chairs.

I mean I can drain enough stormlight today using reporter to prove I didn't use any last night, as long as you believe my claim yesterday that I didn't have enough to take a normal vig shot last night (50 needed, 35 after paying for protection during highstorm, 30 remaining).  But yeah, me proving this is separate from sorting out you and Jimmmmm.

ppe

we are not sorting out me and jimm. Unless there was a 5 man freeking skum team jimm never takes the CC here.

CC?


And yeah, I'm a tracker. I just forgot to post my orders.

[MiX]

Dammit.

I should've just followed Swowl, I thought you guys were on him.

[Swowl]

Dammit.

I should've just followed Swowl, I thought you guys were on him.

I stand by my logic whole heartidely for Aceticing Night 1. I almost did it again to make sure I got the doc off on chairs last night. The literal only reason I did not was because I was so high up on the suspicion list I figured I could get a town confirmation today based of results.
so yeah... I wish you followed me too.

[Swowl]

I was going to drain someone. Forgot to submit anything. So I did nothing. At some point today I'll just dump a bunch of messages to prove I have the stormlight that I should have after that highstorm (aka proving I didn't ninja anything).

We know there’s a rolestopper or ninja. At this point I think you should start vigging that POE if you have the stormlight for it.

Yes. I am one of the ninjas, I don't have the stormlight to vig, so I can prove I'm not the ninja we are looking for.

I mean unless you have a NK, then you do have points for just ninja.
but that still doesn't explain why the hell I did not show up on chairs.

I mean I can drain enough stormlight today using reporter to prove I didn't use any last night, as long as you believe my claim yesterday that I didn't have enough to take a normal vig shot last night (50 needed, 35 after paying for protection during highstorm, 30 remaining).  But yeah, me proving this is separate from sorting out you and Jimmmmm.

ppe

we are not sorting out me and jimm. Unless there was a 5 man freeking skum team jimm never takes the CC here.

CC?


And yeah, I'm a tracker. I just forgot to post my orders.

CC = counter claim.
As in, unless jimm is the 3rd mafia, plus hypercube traitor, and then there is still another mafia... it makes no sense as skum for him to CC my claim here because when I flip town he will just be lynched tomorrow. On the assumption that 5 mafia is nuts, and 6 is literally impossible... he loses anyways, so he never does that as mafia.

[Dylan32]

And if a town roleblocker blocked you, they should 1000% claim it quickly.  If a scum roleblocker did it, they likely won't claim, but then it would have been way better to block an investigative role than you.  So who all were our claimed roleblock/stoppers? Jimmmmm just so happens to be one of them, so watching chairs and roleblocking you would be possible, but I agree I don't think he forces a 1v1 here as scum. Also, no reason to block you at that point anyway, even if he wanted to frame you like this. Scum Jimmmmm just doesn't really make sense, so by "sorting out you and Jimmmmm," I basically meant figuring out if you are scum.  Because honestly, faust was pretty likely to draw some sort of D1 watch since he's at least a somewhat common N1 kill, so actually using a doctor shot on him (knowing the kill was going elsewhere) would have been a good play as either alignment for different reasons.

ppe several

[Dylan32]

I mean, the only thing that makes sense with both town that I can think of would be you getting roleblocked, Swowl.

I agree. but Galz saw the blockers on him, and they both confirmed it

Right, which means you getting roleblocked (unless it's Jimmmmm, which we've already ruled out) is also ruled out (unless someone has been totally lying about their order).  So either you are caught scum, or someone's been pretty ballsy and has lied about everything they've done so far this game.  So if you are town, you should look through the claims and see if there's anyone who's claims are totally unverified/could also correspond to them using one of the adhesion powers.

[Swowl]

I mean, the only thing that makes sense with both town that I can think of would be you getting roleblocked, Swowl.

Rolestopping = no
Roleblocking = Rhand is lying, Glooble is lying (both no, confirmed by Galz)
Bus Drive = GHS... but like just makes no fucking sense.
Jim lying = makes no sense
Scola could of JKd me, but they are saying they did not submit orders. and as skummy as I find them, I just don't see that being in the playbook.

PPE

IDK what to say. I want to defend myself. I want to come up with at a minimum something to give for after my flip. but the only things that are even remotely possible are
1) Jimm lying
2) Scola Lying
3) GHS bus drove me?
4) faust is off the list because I belive they had no spheres left.

So yeah, I guess talk it out. but as crazy as it seems here I think there is actually a fake claim. Or it is eddie or mix. But given the one kill per night thing, I am leaning fake claim.

[Swowl]

I mean, the only thing that makes sense with both town that I can think of would be you getting roleblocked, Swowl.

I agree. but Galz saw the blockers on him, and they both confirmed it

Right, which means you getting roleblocked (unless it's Jimmmmm, which we've already ruled out) is also ruled out (unless someone has been totally lying about their order).  So either you are caught scum, or someone's been pretty ballsy and has lied about everything they've done so far this game.  So if you are town, you should look through the claims and see if there's anyone who's claims are totally unverified/could also correspond to them using one of the adhesion powers.

check the time stamp - I agree with the concept of it is crazy but I think there is a fake claim.

[Dylan32]

3) wouldn't work, because they would have taken all actions from chairs to someone else, so you still would have been seen by Jimmmmm

[Swowl]

which is annoying as shit because you are the person to look at for that as you haven't taken any actions... but I doubt you would bring that point up as skum.

[Swowl]

3) wouldn't work, because they would have taken all actions from chairs to someone else, so you still would have been seen by Jimmmmm

the reason I said it made no sense is that they bus drove me with someone else. Not chairs.

[Swowl]

3) wouldn't work, because they would have taken all actions from chairs to someone else, so you still would have been seen by Jimmmmm

the reason I said it made no sense is that they bus drove me with someone else. Not chairs.

Dumb. I am being dumb. I am getting messed up on RD vs Bus driver. nevermind. you are right.

[Dylan32]

3) wouldn't work, because they would have taken all actions from chairs to someone else, so you still would have been seen by Jimmmmm

the reason I said it made no sense is that they bus drove me with someone else. Not chairs.

Dumb. I am being dumb. I am getting messed up on RD vs Bus driver. nevermind. you are right.

I've legit gone back and read that power like 3 times this game because I keep 2nd guessing myself getting those two mixed up too.

[Dylan32]

which is annoying as shit because you are the person to look at for that as you haven't taken any actions... but I doubt you would bring that point up as skum.

We have other people with access to those orders that can verify that they don't have the same special ability I have demonstrated though. So unless reporter is a special scum factional ability (which would rank up there among the most useless abilities of any game ever), we know from that that I'm not of one of those orders.

[Dylan32]

But yeah, I realized as I typed that out that I would likely be one of the people that would ping on that search, but like I said, I am planning on draining my stormlight today, so even if I had enough to ninja last night, I wouldn't have enough to do it 2 nights in a row with how much I'm going to spend during the day, so if I'm scum it would be dead simple to catch me tonight instead of exiling tomorrow (as long as there is only 1 scum remaining), so I'm not town's best option to eliminate today, even if you think it's possibly me.

[Dylan32]

But yeah, I realized as I typed that out that I would likely be one of the people that would ping on that search, but like I said, I am planning on draining my stormlight today, so even if I had enough to ninja last night, I wouldn't have enough to do it 2 nights in a row with how much I'm going to spend during the day, so if I'm scum it would be dead simple to catch me tonight instead of exiling tomorrow [me today] (as long as there is only 1 scum remaining), so I'm not town's best option to eliminate today, even if you think it's possibly me.

edit

[scolapasta]

MiX, why would you follow chairs and not a more scummy suspect?

[MiX]

MiX, why would you follow chairs and not a more scummy suspect?

There's like a billion PRs, I thought I would just end up following someone that was roleblocked.

[Greathallscout]

Scolapasta said they could jaibreak.

[scolapasta]

I can, but haven't. Honestly, as town I struggle with jailkeep because if I guess wrong, I block someone useful. And using it to protect seems bad too, for same reason.

[Galzria]

GHS, you’re up to claim.

[Greathallscout]

Yes! My turn! This throws a fun wrench into the equation: My cop result was that jimmmm and scolapasta are NOT the same allignment.

[scolapasta]

that's enough for me to decide.

well vote: Jimmmm

[Swowl]

hell to the no

Vote: Scola

[MiX]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

[Swowl]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

[Swowl]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

but more likely. scola is just skum.

[MiX]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

but more likely. scola is just skum.

Uh, if scola's scum, how do you explain Jimmmmm's result?

[MiX]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

Well publicly there's only 1 third-party, so there's probably 1 hidden. I guess there's town-party (uncle), choose-your-own-party (me) and scum-party (the third person)

And then traitor, of course.

[Swowl]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

but more likely. scola is just skum.

Uh, if scola's scum, how do you explain Jimmmmm's result?

that would be the whole lying about your alignment thing normally... but no one else has flipped that alignment. so yeah... actually.

unvote

[Dylan32]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

but more likely. scola is just skum.

Uh, if scola's scum, how do you explain Jimmmmm's result?

scola JKd swowl. Is there anything to prove that's not what happened?

[MiX]

Well at least I'm not the only confusing person here.

What do you mean by "lying about your alignment thing"?

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

but more likely. scola is just skum.

Uh, if scola's scum, how do you explain Jimmmmm's result?

scola JKd swowl. Is there anything to prove that's not what happened?

Well, ok, fair enough.

Unvote

[Dylan32]

Yes! My turn! This throws a fun wrench into the equation: My cop result was that jimmmm and scolapasta are NOT the same allignment.

Amazing targeting lol

[Swowl]

Uh.

What.

Well I guess there's 1 more third-party, but...

well since you're town now (right?) that would mean only 2.

but more likely. scola is just skum.

Uh, if scola's scum, how do you explain Jimmmmm's result?

scola JKd swowl. Is there anything to prove that's not what happened?

thats what I was thinking I just didn't wanna be the one to bring it up.

[Swowl]

wait a sec MiX I was getting Jim and Chairs mixed up.
How does Jimm alleviate Scola?

[Swowl]

wait a sec MiX I was getting Jim and Chairs mixed up.
How does Jimm alleviate Scola?

you are talking about me missing from Jimms result list. I am slow. It is the JK. got it.

[MiX]

wait a sec MiX I was getting Jim and Chairs mixed up.
How does Jimm alleviate Scola?

Hmm...well Dylan answered my question.

So either scola JK'd you, or Jimmmmmm is scum. Mechanically, we kill Jimmmmmm, so I'm willing to do that.

Wait no joth was scumreading Jimmmmmm all day, let's just kill scola first.

Vote: scola

[Dylan32]

Vote: scolapasta

[Dylan32]

Galz also posted a description of scola's earlier night actions that had a compelling possibility for scum!scola in our house QT.  I'll let them describe it more in depth if they want, but for one thing, giving scum and the IC a QT, while totally possible for town to do mistakenly, also makes a lot of sense for scum.

[Dylan32]

Galz also posted a description of scola's earlier night actions that had a compelling possibility for scum!scola in our house QT.  I'll let them describe it more in depth if they want, but for one thing, giving scum and the IC a QT, while totally possible for town to do mistakenly, also makes a lot of sense for scum.

compelling possible narrative*

[MiX]

Galz also posted a description of scola's earlier night actions that had a compelling possibility for scum!scola in our house QT.  I'll let them describe it more in depth if they want, but for one thing, giving scum and the IC a QT, while totally possible for town to do mistakenly, also makes a lot of sense for scum.

It's null because pairing the twins together is really good, and I don't think joth was ready for it as he was caught mechanically. If he wasn't in the QT he might've not.

[Swowl]

Galz also posted a description of scola's earlier night actions that had a compelling possibility for scum!scola in our house QT.  I'll let them describe it more in depth if they want, but for one thing, giving scum and the IC a QT, while totally possible for town to do mistakenly, also makes a lot of sense for scum.

It's null because pairing the twins together is really good, and I don't think joth was ready for it as he was caught mechanically. If he wasn't in the QT he might've not.

I can pull game history with a skum thread of Joth insisting the best play was to open a thread with town glooble. like recently-ish.

[Swowl]

Galz also posted a description of scola's earlier night actions that had a compelling possibility for scum!scola in our house QT.  I'll let them describe it more in depth if they want, but for one thing, giving scum and the IC a QT, while totally possible for town to do mistakenly, also makes a lot of sense for scum.

It's null because pairing the twins together is really good, and I don't think joth was ready for it as he was caught mechanically. If he wasn't in the QT he might've not.

I can pull game history with a skum thread of Joth insisting the best play was to open a thread with town glooble. like recently-ish.

... actually I think I am wrong. Think it was glooble choosing Joth upon thinking it over.

[Swowl]

whatever. who is next? chairs?
We should prob have that come out before anything actual happens. just in case there is relevant info there.

[MiX]

Galz also posted a description of scola's earlier night actions that had a compelling possibility for scum!scola in our house QT.  I'll let them describe it more in depth if they want, but for one thing, giving scum and the IC a QT, while totally possible for town to do mistakenly, also makes a lot of sense for scum.

It's null because pairing the twins together is really good, and I don't think joth was ready for it as he was caught mechanically. If he wasn't in the QT he might've not.

I can pull game history with a skum thread of Joth insisting the best play was to open a thread with town glooble. like recently-ish.

Note how I only gave reasons for why town!scola would do it, and why it wasn't scum!scola, and none for why scum would and did. It's fairly likely that joth would make the plan of going into the QT by really liking to make weird plays as scum, as he does, so the scum!scola scenario makes sense. The rest is why I think it's null and not scummy.

PPE 2: When's Glooble scum? Must've been the other way around...I wouldn't know anyway.

[scolapasta]

So the logic here seems to be, one of me and Jimmmm due to mod cop).

So either Jimmmm is scum and lying about Swowl or
Jimmmm is telling the truth and I jailkept?

And less likely to be Jimmm because why would he CC.

All that make sense. I won't be mad if I get exiled.

But maybe chairs has some knowledge...

[Glooble]

So the logic here seems to be, one of me and Jimmmm due to mod cop).

So either Jimmmm is scum and lying about Swowl or
Jimmmm is telling the truth and I jailkept?

And less likely to be Jimmm because why would he CC.

All that make sense. I won't be mad if I get exiled.

But maybe chairs has some knowledge...

Provided GHS is telling the truth.

[scolapasta]

So the logic here seems to be, one of me and Jimmmm due to mod cop).

So either Jimmmm is scum and lying about Swowl or
Jimmmm is telling the truth and I jailkept?

And less likely to be Jimmm because why would he CC.

All that make sense. I won't be mad if I get exiled.

But maybe chairs has some knowledge...

Provided GHS is telling the truth.

Good point. I think it's likely he is though, no?

I mean earlier joth alignment inverted cube (we think) and GHS modcopped faust and cube.

That seems like a risky scum team move.

[chairs]

Okay, I think we've chatted enough it's time for my claim.

vote: jimmmmm

I copped Jimmmmm and got non-town.

[MiX]

Vote: Jimmmmmm

chairs oracle's, doc'd and cop'd.

What did you oracle? I was surprised.

[scolapasta]

Okay, I think we've chatted enough it's time for my claim.

vote: jimmmmm

I copped Jimmmmm and got non-town.

Yay!

The case against now seems pretty clear from like 5 different angles, no? Can you people stop voting for me now?

[scolapasta]

All that make sense. I won't be mad if I get exiled.

With new evidence, I take this back.

[Galzria]

vote: Jimmmmm

[Swowl]

I mean... I guess I was wrong on the assumption of the CC. Though it still seems weird.

Vote:Jimmm

[Swowl]

formatting

Vote: Jimmmm

[MiX]

Oh, sorry about that.

Vote: Jimmmmm

[chairs]

Vote: Jimmmmmm

chairs oracle's, doc'd and cop'd.

What did you oracle? I was surprised.

Kind of not a Towny move here bud to call out my Stormlight usage, but I Oracle asked the same question you did to make sure I got the same answer you did.

[Swowl]

hey sir mixa lot - how the hell are you doing all this with no spheres?

[MiX]

hey sir mixa lot - how the hell are you doing all this with no spheres?

I'm a singer, only humans need puny things like spheres to have stormlight.

Something like that, my powers are innate, but 1-shot.

[Swowl]

i accidentally just used mcmc's name in vain... that's on me.

and ok... I suppose I can accept that.

ppe

[Dylan32]

Vote: Jimmmmm

[Dylan32]

Ok, if the scum team was 4 people and there’s no explicitly anti-town 3rd party, is it seriously possible that we just won this monstrosity of a game flawlessly? *knock on wood*

[MiX]

Ok, if the scum team was 4 people and there’s no explicitly anti-town 3rd party, is it seriously possible that we just won this monstrosity of a game flawlessly? *knock on wood*

Maybe 1 third-party become scum by now...?

[Jimmmmm]

SK here. I stopped shooting after N1 because of all the investigations. There's a good chance you'll have to lynch me twice.

[Dylan32]

Ok, if the scum team was 4 people and there’s no explicitly anti-town 3rd party, is it seriously possible that we just won this monstrosity of a game flawlessly? *knock on wood*

Maybe 1 third-party become scum by now...?

SK here. I stopped shooting after N1 because of all the investigations. There's a good chance you'll have to lynch me twice.

There it is? Lol

[MiX]

SK here. I stopped shooting after N1 because of all the investigations. There's a good chance you'll have to lynch me twice.

Ok how do oracle questions work then??

[Jimmmmm]

Are you asking me? No idea.

[faust]

SK here. I stopped shooting after N1 because of all the investigations. There's a good chance you'll have to lynch me twice.

Haha. Is the Watcher result accurate?

[faust]

Also Jimmmm... are you like... a Knight Radiant?

[faust]

Scenarios:

Jimmmm is telling the truth about the watching, he is a Knight Radiant and Swowl is scum.

Jimmmm is lying about the watching, so he cannot watch (because else why lie), he is not a Knight Radiant, i.e. MiX's supposed Oracle result was false and he's scum.

[Swowl]

Scenarios:

Jimmmm is telling the truth about the watching, he is a Knight Radiant and Swowl is scum.

Jimmmm is lying about the watching, so he cannot watch (because else why lie), he is not a Knight Radiant, i.e. MiX's supposed Oracle result was false and he's scum.

I mean chairs confirmed MiX oracle result, so at the minimum MiX probably has the oracle ability. And Jim claimed Glooble prior to Glooble stating anything... so he probably did watch. Which is irritatingly strange - as I am not skum.

[Dylan32]

Scenarios:

Jimmmm is telling the truth about the watching, he is a Knight Radiant and Swowl is scum.

Jimmmm is lying about the watching, so he cannot watch (because else why lie), he is not a Knight Radiant, i.e. MiX's supposed Oracle result was false and he's scum.

3) Jimmmmm is lying about being an SK to throw doubt on MiX and whoever else confirmed his oracle result (chairs?) and he's just caught scum reaching deep into the bag of tricks.

[faust]

Yeah uh well, let's see it.

Vote: Jimmmmm

[faust]

(L-1 I think)

[faust]

Actually it should be the lynch I guess.

[faust]

Actually it should be the lynch exile I guess.

Old habits die hard.

[Jimmmmm]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

[Rhand]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

[Rhand]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

Hypercube was blocked but I think a traitor can’t make the NK.
That means Glooble or Faust were the kill as they were doctored.

[Rhand]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

Hypercube was blocked but I think a traitor can’t make the NK.
That means Glooble or Faust were the kill as they were doctored.

No one watched Glooble. If he was the NK, we don’t have info.

Seen on faust: Swowl, galz, GHS, Glooble, cayvie
Assuming 1 mafia left, it can’t be GHS since he doesn’t have the power to hide the LaLight kill.
It can’t be Galz since he was blocked last Night.
It has to be Swowl if Faust was the NK.
(With the off chance of Dylan ninja-killing faust)

[faust]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

Hypercube was blocked but I think a traitor can’t make the NK.
That means Glooble or Faust were the kill as they were doctored.

No one watched Glooble. If he was the NK, we don’t have info.

I thought Glooble had an alerter that Night?

And that was given to him by joth. I would make very little sense for scum to give an alerter to the person they're killing.

[Rhand]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

Hypercube was blocked but I think a traitor can’t make the NK.
That means Glooble or Faust were the kill as they were doctored.

No one watched Glooble. If he was the NK, we don’t have info.

I thought Glooble had an alerter that Night?

And that was given to him by joth. I would make very little sense for scum to give an alerter to the person they're killing.

Yeh no towncred to be gained from someone that is dead.
Which means the assumption that you were the NK is probably correct.

[Jimmmmm]

Of course it's possible that Mafia also shot cayvie.

[Rhand]

Of course it's possible that Mafia also shot cayvie.

Oh that’s a scenario I didn’t think of.
What were your reasons for shooting her?

[Greathallscout]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

Hypercube was blocked but I think a traitor can’t make the NK.
That means Glooble or Faust were the kill as they were doctored.

No one watched Glooble. If he was the NK, we don’t have info.

I thought Glooble had an alerter that Night?

And that was given to him by joth. I would make very little sense for scum to give an alerter to the person they're killing.

Giving the alerter is the perfect cover for a kill. Glooble was a prime target to be doctored. So in scum's eyes, If he was doctored then joth claims the truth about giving the alerter and it puts suspicion on the others who targeted glooble.

[Jimmmmm]

What were your reasons for shooting her?

I was looking for one of the more active players (eliminating the need to re-read them on Day 2) who was not an obvious kill and therefore less likely to be Watched or Doctored, and she is who I came up with.

[faust]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

Hypercube was blocked but I think a traitor can’t make the NK.
That means Glooble or Faust were the kill as they were doctored.

No one watched Glooble. If he was the NK, we don’t have info.

I thought Glooble had an alerter that Night?

And that was given to him by joth. I would make very little sense for scum to give an alerter to the person they're killing.

Giving the alerter is the perfect cover for a kill. Glooble was a prime target to be doctored. So in scum's eyes, If he was doctored then joth claims the truth about giving the alerter and it puts suspicion on the others who targeted glooble.

But if he's doctored, then there is no suspicion because he didn't die...

[Greathallscout]

I don't think I've lied about anything except by omission. I'm not a full Windrunner so I can only Watch and Roleblock. I haven't Roleblocked. I shot cayvie N1.

Heh that means the real NK was doctored or blocked.

Hypercube was blocked but I think a traitor can’t make the NK.
That means Glooble or Faust were the kill as they were doctored.

No one watched Glooble. If he was the NK, we don’t have info.

I thought Glooble had an alerter that Night?

And that was given to him by joth. I would make very little sense for scum to give an alerter to the person they're killing.

Giving the alerter is the perfect cover for a kill. Glooble was a prime target to be doctored. So in scum's eyes, If he was doctored then joth claims the truth about giving the alerter and it puts suspicion on the others who targeted glooble.

But if he's doctored, then there is no suspicion because he didn't die...

There is suspicion because there was no night kill

[MiX]

Jimmmmmm, your story stinks.

How could you possibly think you would win without killing every night once 3 scum were outed?

Any decent SK would shoot N2 as well.

[Jimmmmm]

How could you possibly think you would win without killing every night once 3 scum were outed?

I didn't think I would win either way. I thought I would last longer if I avoided being caught. I thought about killing last Night and would probably have started again Tonight.

It's not like it matters in the slightest whether you or anyone else believes me.

[MiX]

How could you possibly think you would win without killing every night once 3 scum were outed?

I didn't think I would win either way. I thought I would last longer if I avoided being caught. I thought about killing last Night and would probably have started again Tonight.

It's not like it matters in the slightest whether you or anyone else believes me.

Well, as a potential SK (before highstorm anyway) I'm here to say that you probably should've shot. Which is worth less than nothing, okay, point taken.

Why did you lie about your Watcher result?

[Jimmmmm]

Why did you lie about your Watcher result?

I didn't. What Watcher result are you talking about?

[Jimmmmm]

I maintain that I did not see Swowl target chairs, if that's what you're talking about.

[MiX]

I maintain that I did not see Swowl target chairs, if that's what you're talking about.

Oh okay I thought you just cleverly omitted that.

[mail-mi]

"Yelig-nar, called Blightwind, was one that could speak like a man, though often his voice was accompanied by the wails of those he consumed."   The Unmade were obviously fabrications of folklore. Curiously, most were not considered individuals, but instead personifications of kinds of destruction. This quote is from Traxil, line 33, considered a primary source, though I doubt its authenticity.

Vote Count 4.FINAL

Jimmmmm (7): scolapasta, chairs, MiX, Galzria, Swowl, Dylan32, faust
Swowl (2): Rhand, Glooble

Not Voting (4): Uncleeurope, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, Swowl

With 12 alive it took 7 to lynch.

Twilight starts now and lasts 6 hours. Night will begin after that. Due to the 4th of July (an american holiday) coming up, players may vote in their personal QT to shorten the night to 24 hours. If all players vote for it, the night will be shortened. Otherwise, I can't garuntee I'll be online on the 4th to open the thread.

The stormwardens have predicted a highstorm to come this evening!

[faust]

Blipb I'm here.

[chairs]

Checking in for short Twilight. I'm meh on short Night since Day will come on a weekend when I'll be as afk as ever

[MiX]

Short twilight!

[Glooble]

checking in. I am not going to use my governor power to save Jimmmm.

[scolapasta]

So much always happens during sleep hours.

Anyway, checking in for twilight.

And to confirm, storm at night means no night actions except NK?

[Greathallscout]

checking in for twilight as well

[mail-mi]

So much always happens during sleep hours.

Anyway, checking in for twilight.

And to confirm, storm at night means no night actions except NK?

Correct. There will also be no item for bid.

[Galzria]

Checking in

[Rhand]

Here.
Guess we’ll be losing Glooble.
Please if you can post your parting thoughts

[Glooble]

I'm not who I would kill.

[Rhand]

Really? You’re confirmed town.

[Glooble]

Really? You’re confirmed town.

So is half the town.

[Dylan32]

checking in

[Swowl]

Checking in also for twilight.

I am fairly confident based on the likelihood that Jimm is for some reason lying Still, that they have a partner. I’ll spend the night looking for other explanations but that is pretty much the best i got for now.

[Jimmmmm]

checking in

[mail-mi]

Jimmmmm has been lynched! However, he is still alive.

Night 4 starts now. Night actions (in this case, highstorm actions) are due by 5:00AM FT on July 4th, 2020. The night will end sometime between then and 5:00PM on the same day. Players may also vote to shorten the night to 24 hours. If that vote is unanimous, actions will be due at 5:00PM FT on July 3rd, 2020, and the night will end around then.

Remember: During a highstorm, you may not perform any night actions other than factional kills. However, you may perform all normal highstorm actions.

Thread Locked!

[mail-mi]

GreatHallScout has died! He was a Town Stoneward, of House Kholin.

Swowl has died! He was a Mafia Edgedancer, of House Kholin.

Day 5 starts now!

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting (10): Dylan32, faust, MiX, scolapasta, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Galzria, chairs, Glooble, Jimmmmm

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 5 lasts until 1:30PM FT on July 11, 2020

Thread unlocked!

[MiX]

Vote: Jimmmmm

[chairs]

Vote: jimmmmm

[Galzria]

vote: Jimmmmm

[Galzria]

This game has been really fun. And I really like the setup. But man oh man has scum gotten bad breaks at every single turn.

Also, looks like I successfully Doctored faust N1. /flex

[MiX]

This game has been really fun. And I really like the setup. But man oh man has scum gotten bad breaks at every single turn.

Also, looks like I successfully Doctored faust N1. /flex

How do you know that?

This setup is town-sided AND scum's getting destroyed.

Ooooh I wonder how I could've changed things!

[Galzria]

This game has been really fun. And I really like the setup. But man oh man has scum gotten bad breaks at every single turn.

Also, looks like I successfully Doctored faust N1. /flex

How do you know that?

This setup is town-sided AND scum's getting destroyed.

Ooooh I wonder how I could've changed things!

Two kills last night, during a Highstorm. Jimmmmm probably SK. Only possible claimed second shot that could go through (unless you’re SK).

Jimmmmm claimed to shoot Cayvie N1.

Mafia!Swan was seen targeting faust N1 and there was a missing N1 Kill assuming SK!Jimmmmm killed Cayvie. I Doctored faust N1.

[MiX]

Aren't there more doctors?

[Galzria]

Aren't there more doctors?

Only Chairs. He Doctored Glooble. Scum didn’t attempt to kill him and give him the invention in the same night. Also, Swan had no business targeting faust.

[MiX]

Aren't there more doctors?

Only Chairs. He Doctored Glooble. Scum didn’t attempt to kill him and give him the invention in the same night. Also, Swan had no business targeting faust.

Okay then, good job

[mail-mi]

"Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red."   
- Collected: Jesachev, 1173, 12 seconds pre-death. Subject: one of our own ardents, overheard during his last moments.

Vote Count 5.1\

Jimmmmm (3): MiX, chairs, Galzria

Not Voting (7): Dylan32, faust, scolapasta, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Glooble, Jimmmmm

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 5 lasts until 1:30PM FT on July 11, 2020

[scolapasta]

vote: Jimmmmm

[scolapasta]

vote: Jimmmmm

I do appreciate that he was willing to take our scum for us.

[Glooble]

Vote: Jimmmm

[Galzria]

vote: Jimmmmm

I do appreciate that he was willing to take our scum for us.

I’m still wary there’s one more scum, but at this point there’s at most one more, so they essentially act as an SK going forward (and thus Jimmmmm is clearly the correct choice here):

18 Players:

1 Survivor [Eddie]
1 Swing-Player (Town/SK/Traitor) [MiX]
1 SK [Jimmmmm]
1 Traitor [Hyper]
3-4 Scum [EFHW, Joth, Swowl, ??]
10-11 Town [Everyone else]

[faust]

Vote: Jimmmmm

[Galzria]

Vote: Jimmmmm

#hammertime

[MiX]

Short day!

Short twilight!

...not short night as we can do things, but probably as well.

[faust]

Vote: Jimmmmm

#hammertime

I like hammering Jimmmmm so much I'm doing it twice this game!

[faust]

Short day!

Short twilight!

...not short night as we can do things, but probably as well.

Ideally, no night at all.

[Dylan32]

vote:jimmmmm

Good for short everything.

[Dylan32]

vote:jimmmmm

Good for short everything.

vote: jimmmmm

Darn mobile

[Dylan32]

Oh, reading would have been good lol

[mail-mi]

I think I can safely assume Glooble won't use his governor power...

Vote Count 5.FINAL

Jimmmmm (6): MiX, chairs, Galzria, scolapasta, Glooble, faust

Not Voting (4): Dylan32, Rhand, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm

Jimmmmm has been lynched! He was the Assassin in White!

Town (and Uncleeurope) Wins Flawlessly!!

[mail-mi]

Mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/hd6HuYDhTamLC

Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/vvxpgKWZsEAe

Mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/WVTeQ4zPFgVE

Final thoughts on the game: Thanks for trying this out! About the setup, I think it was town-sided, especially because we had way too many watchers. If I were to run it again, I would replace that with a different, non-investigative power. However, I don't think it was unbalaced toward town; cause scum lost their strongest player on D1, and it was just down-hill from there.

I hope everyone had fun!

[mail-mi]

And here's a spreadsheet with all the role powers and night actions: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ieumtlrv_G7uKX7MS-ZUrTswg6SSLEZFbpQJtkQmkgI/edit?usp=sharing

[Galzria]

Yay!

[MiX]

I win!

I do not deserve to win this game.

Thoughts after reading the QTs.

[scolapasta]

Reading QTs:

quote from jothi n speccy: "But I had to full claim to Glooble at the beginning of the day because of that stupid QT"

Yay! That was my stupid QT I gave that he's referring to. At the time I really thought they were both town, and while I knew they were both friends (and local to me), I was unaware they were brothers / twins!

But as it turns out q QT between mafia and IC in this game ended up being effective too.

[scolapasta]

OK, here's another happy quote:

"scolapasta's really coming into his own this game!"

[MiX]

To answer speccy!cayvie:

I did mention that you correctly read me, and I would never shoot you because I would then be forced to point out that you said that about me, and if I was SK I would've said it in a really awkward way that makes everyone know I killed you.

Hey mods what were my other 2 forms? I presume stormform's traitor, and warform's SK, but knowing the setup I don't think it makes sense anymore.

[MiX]

How did Jimmmmm's killing work?

Overall, I think the setup's already pro-town, and the "randomization" made it more so. There's too many cheap investigations: I thought town would have like 30-45 infused spheres, but they had so many more that there was a lot of freedom in role usage.

However, outside of balance, the setup's very well made, I really liked the feigned randomness and all the unique quirks that are hidden behind a "semi-open game". In fact, I'd say every non-public ability (excluding orders) are incredibly unique and fun: half-knight, squires (with the traitor), choose-your-alignment and especially The True Survivor. These could be somewhat predicted by flavor, but by making a lot of things known information, it helps to hide the things that aren't.

The only problem I have is a biased one: I couldn't really bluff anything. There were too many tracking roles and I had no idea what a normal sphere count looked like. I suspect this is true for everyone else, but I think I'm the only player that has an incentive to bluff (the SK obviously bluffs being a full knight, but that's not the same).

Really fun, I wish it was possible for this to be an open setup, all I want is to go back in time and play this setup differently.

[Galzria]

Mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/hd6HuYDhTamLC

Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/vvxpgKWZsEAe

Mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/WVTeQ4zPFgVE

Final thoughts on the game: Thanks for trying this out! About the setup, I think it was town-sided, especially because we had way too many watchers. If I were to run it again, I would replace that with a different, non-investigative power. However, I don't think it was unbalaced toward town; cause scum lost their strongest player on D1, and it was just down-hill from there.

I hope everyone had fun!

Scum got lynched D1. 3 (4 with Traitor) of 18.
Scum lost their strongest PR to D1 lynch.
Scum got screwed by targeting their ONE traitor in 17 (15 if you discount Swowl/Joth) with alignment inversion N1.
Scum got hit by Watcher N1.
Scum kill got Doctored N1.
MiX had no incentive to swing towards Scum when the opportunity first came up.
Swowl was seen at the end - but by that point they already were backed up against the wall.

[Galzria]

I would’ve cut back on total number of spheres though. I think that’s really the only thing that tipped the scales. Other than that, things just fell heavy against scum when they largely didn’t have to.

[MiX]

I would’ve cut back on total number of spheres though. I think that’s really the only thing that tipped the scales. Other than that, things just fell heavy against scum when they largely didn’t have to.

Even then, I think more expensive town actions and less expensive scum actions would've helped, and been healthier for the setup. I didn't go check, but I presume scum didn't have much more stormlight than town.

[Swowl]

Mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/hd6HuYDhTamLC

Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/vvxpgKWZsEAe

Mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/WVTeQ4zPFgVE

Final thoughts on the game: Thanks for trying this out! About the setup, I think it was town-sided, especially because we had way too many watchers. If I were to run it again, I would replace that with a different, non-investigative power. However, I don't think it was unbalaced toward town; cause scum lost their strongest player on D1, and it was just down-hill from there.

I hope everyone had fun!

Scum got lynched D1. 3 (4 with Traitor) of 18.
Scum lost their strongest PR to D1 lynch.
Scum got screwed by targeting their ONE traitor in 17 (15 if you discount Swowl/Joth) with alignment inversion N1.
Scum got hit by Watcher N1.
Scum kill got Doctored N1.
MiX had no incentive to swing towards Scum when the opportunity first came up.
Swowl was seen at the end - but by that point they already were backed up against the wall.

so total number spheres I think was balancing for skum to be able to steal. but I could be wrong, and yeah we kind of had some bad luck on the targeting... but seriously I had a blast playing this game.

Thanks MM for the fun set up! Once I actually could understand what was going on I had a great time!

[Swowl]

oh and GG to town obv!

[MiX]

oh and GG to town obv!

Yeah, regardless of setup, town crushed all that opposed it.

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, it ended.

Well, gg folks.

I have to say that this was some of the most fun I have had in a long while.

I have to say, I saw the word “Wit” in my role, was like “am I a Jester?” And after that I just saw verse. Sorry for those that I was annoying with my antics, but I was having a blast.

Scum did seem to have it rough, and I kept wanting to try and work against town, but little things kept making that hard.

MiX outing me, for one. Haha.

I was also hoping swowl would just claim to me, so we could try for a play, but his conversation was much less eventful,

Also also, sorry my activity (And, this, song’s) died down near the end, I ended up going on a vacation that I didn’t think I was going to go on, and it threw a cog  in my plans for activity.

GG, regardless, and again:

This character was made for me, the powers and potential for backstabbing and deal making. I loved trying to dance around everyone’s wishes.

I would echo MiX’s thoughts on wanting to try an open version of this at some point... But I would want to play this guy again.

[Uncleeurope]

My first post in my QT:

To be clear, I am a survivor?

Will people think I am just part of their guild?

Also, did I get the coolest role in the game?

Can I open and close neighborhoods during the day?


Also, thematically I am essentially a Jester?

Again, I shall repeat, did I get the best role in the game?

My first post I made after the opening song:

I will probably die within 12 seconds of trying this, but it will be an enjoyable 12 seconds.

[Galzria]

I never had a QT with you. #UnLoved

[scolapasta]

I never had a QT with you. #UnLoved

Ditto. I even asked for one, and then everyone scum read that. (I wanted to communicate to Gloobie that I had given him the QT with joth)

[MiX]

I never had a QT with you. #UnLoved

Ditto. I even asked for one, and then everyone scum read that. (I wanted to communicate to Gloobie that I had given him the QT with joth)

Did we? Were people scumreading town that game?

I have so many mixed (sorry) feelings about reads that game. My scumreads were all accidentally on point.

All I know is that I was jealous of anyone that talked to Uncle I wanted to make that hood a masonry full time.

[hypercube]

Well played town!

[hypercube]

And, apologies again to my teammates for failing to do much of anything to further our wincon.

[Greathallscout]

Thank you so much everyone for a great first game for me on this site! Special thanks to the moderators! I would love to play more, get better, get to know you guys better, and show my personality more

[EFHW]

Good job Swowl, staying alive so long all alone. I'm sorry Day 1 was such a bust.

[Glooble]

I don’t think I’ve ever been an IC in a non-blitz game before. It’s a very different experience not having to worry about looking towny.

[WestCoastDidds]

That was so fun yams! Thank you for all of the hard work!

[Galzria]

I don’t think I’ve ever been an IC in a non-blitz game before. It’s a very different experience not having to worry about looking towny.

It’s funny - I can’t recall personally, but if you ask Swowl about “Glooble”, he’ll tell you that he has a permanent “IC” next to your name. He’s told me that he remembers you as being IC in almost every game you’ve ever played together.

[Galzria]

I don’t think I’ve ever been an IC in a non-blitz game before. It’s a very different experience not having to worry about looking towny.

It’s funny - I can’t recall personally, but if you ask Swowl about “Glooble”, he’ll tell you that he has a permanent “IC” next to your name. He’s told me that he remembers you as being IC in almost every game you’ve ever played together.

Maybe you’re just really, really townie to him.

[Jimmmmm]

Sorry Swowl for shooting you. After being lynched the first time, my kill would only work on Mafia (while any remained alive). I figured if you were the last one, a coup de grâce was best for everyone.

[WestCoastDidds]

Of course I copped you Swowl, totally the right kill choice.

Xoxo

[faust]

Okay, we made it through.

For me, unfortunately, it wasn't a particularly fun experience. Day 1 was great, what came after felt mostly mechanical. I'm trying to figure out what the problems were, and my thinking is.

- the number of spheres and frequency of highstorms was not what I expected. For most players, infused spheres were never really a scarce resource. So it ended up being mostly fluff, and it also led to too many night actions.
- every townie had like 2-3 PRs. That was just too much power. So much information trickled in each Night that finding scum with them was not a challenge.
- The "scummy" powers weren't all that helpful to scum. Ninja and Ascetizier clearly were meant for scum to avoid being caught, but that ended up not helping because not being seen doing an action is also bad in this setup. Alignment inversion is better, but scum had only one of those versus like 3ish Cops, so for the most part Cop results were still trustworthy. Not sure how much Bus Driving/Redirection would have changed things, but with the amount of Watching going around it probably would not have been too difficult to reconstruct what happened.
- Survivors are always problematic because they have a strong incentive to side with the winning team, leading to a boost to whoever's already ahead. Having 2 of them makes it even worse.
- scum had no space to maveuver, since fakeclaims of roles were all but impossible, especially with the hidden order powers. Those were arguably too much anyway and should have been cut.

[Rhand]

Thanks for a fun game everyone.
I’m still sad Cayvie died early, but you’re a fun bunch to play with.

I agree that we all had too many spheres to play around with. I ended the game with 70 infused spheres. That’s two more Nights worth of blocking and watching.
I think in a setup with so much power you have to either limit the amount of times those powers can be used drastically or dumb down those powers themselves (voyeur instead of watcher for example).

The design of Eddie’s role is amazing.

Jimmm should have probably not been a watcher. It’s forcing him to townside in a setup where town already has a lot of power.

Still I like the setup a lot. Thanks for the hard work.

[Dylan32]

Most might have had too many spheres, but I would argue I should have at least started with more infused, even if the total didn’t increase. Literally didn’t do anything at night the whole game in a game with that many abilities...

[mail-mi]

Most might have had too many spheres, but I would argue I should have at least started with more infused, even if the total didn’t increase. Literally didn’t do anything at night the whole game in a game with that many abilities...

Yeah, I realized after the game started that you should have been given enough spheres to vig, and the other skybreaker should have had fewer.

[jotheonah]

Yeah... this was not a fun game for me. I felt like town had an infinite number of cops. I told the truth about almost everything I did night 1 and still got caught on the one lie I told. (To be fair, I could have claimed to cop hupercube, but then I would have had to either confirm him town (which I thought he was at the time) and then have a conflict if anyone actually copped him, or finger him as scum which, if he had been town, would have just led to me being mislynched the next day.)

It was just very frustrating, because I felt like I was playing well but it didn’t matter. I agree with others’ assessments— too many powers, spheres were not sufficiently limiting, and too many investigative powers.

Town did choose targets very well, I’ll give them that. I can’t believe Galz doctored faust.

[Swowl]

Sorry Swowl for shooting you. After being lynched the first time, my kill would only work on Mafia (while any remained alive). I figured if you were the last one, a coup de grâce was best for everyone.

all good man!

[mail-mi]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

[MiX]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

Probably? I can see it be good in theory, but I didn't think about it too much.

While you're here, what were my other 2 forms?

[mail-mi]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

Probably? I can see it be good in theory, but I didn't think about it too much.

While you're here, what were my other 2 forms?

They all were JOATs, with 4 different 1-shot abilities. You can look at the spreadsheet to see exactly what the abilities were. Nimbleform was town-aligned, warform was a survivor, and stormform turned you into a Mafia Traitor.

[EFHW]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

I'd play again, since I only got to experience one day of it. But as scum with scummy powers, claiming was the death knell (I was going down anyway, but it didn't help!) and fakeclaiming wasn't possible. So randomizing would be helpful.

[MiX]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

I'd play again, since I only got to experience one day of it. But as scum with scummy powers, claiming was the death knell (I was going down anyway, but it didn't help!) and fakeclaiming wasn't possible. So randomizing would be helpful.

Are they that scummy? As a third-party I support being able to fakeclaim

Also, making my stuff a bunch of JOATs is cool, and I correctly guessed stormform's alignment, yay!

[Uncleeurope]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

I'd play again, since I only got to experience one day of it. But as scum with scummy powers, claiming was the death knell (I was going down anyway, but it didn't help!) and fakeclaiming wasn't possible. So randomizing would be helpful.

Are they that scummy? As a third-party I support being able to fakeclaim

Also, making my stuff a bunch of JOATs is cool, and I correctly guessed stormform's alignment, yay!

Pfft, why fakeclaim when you can just claim?

[2.71828.....]

Really enjoyed working with mail-mi working on the setup, first time attempting to do something like this and I think it showed.

Agree with the consensus that town was always winning here with all their powers.

With the stormlight we were trying to go with a type of trade-off as much as possible. Do this one powerful action and be out of juice, or do a bunch of not-as-powerful options. I know I definitely just undervalued the "not-as-powerful" options.

I think I got caught up thinking about the third parties rather than the main town/scum. The character I am happiest about is Wit, who Eddie played marvelously even for not having read the stormlight archives. I also liked the ideas behind the assassin in white and parshmen, they just didn't play out like the might have with everything else being unbalanced

If I were to build this again, I would probably try put some VTs who have potential to convert to PRs (the whole radiant squire concept). Or just have fewer radiant PRs where it would be closer to a standard M game. Or, now that we have done mistborn and stormlight, finish reading the other cosmere books, run RMMs based on those, then do a cosmere mafia...

But, I need to start with reading the other cosmere stuff.

In the end, thanks mail-mi for letting me co-mod/create!

[faust]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

I'd rather people focus their energy on other projects, but if this pops up I'd probably /in.

[cayvie]

Here's a question: If the powers were changed up a bit (fewer investigative powers, stronger powers for scum, adjusting costs, fewer spheres) would players enjoy playing this as an open setup? Removing the hidden order powers and all the 3rd parties, of course. Just regular old 12-13 player mafia game. You could randomize the orders too (they weren't randomized this game).

personally it's a liiiittle too mechanically solve-able for my tastes; i definitely had a great time d1, and i'm not sure i would have if i'd lived longer XD

[cayvie]

jimmmmmm killed me??? man rude

[cayvie]

Thanks for a fun game everyone.
I’m still sad Cayvie died early, but you’re a fun bunch to play with.

I agree that we all had too many spheres to play around with. I ended the game with 70 infused spheres. That’s two more Nights worth of blocking and watching.
I think in a setup with so much power you have to either limit the amount of times those powers can be used drastically or dumb down those powers themselves (voyeur instead of watcher for example).

The design of Eddie’s role is amazing.

Jimmm should have probably not been a watcher. It’s forcing him to townside in a setup where town already has a lot of power.

Still I like the setup a lot. Thanks for the hard work.

thank you so much for coming over! it was lovely to get to town with you after wolfing with you so intensely.

[cayvie]

this was just a beast of a town performance, in what looks like an already somewhat townsided setup.

[faust]

The main thing an open setup would have to do to make this work for me is disincentivize claiming in some form. Some ideas for that:

- give scum the factional power to, once per night, block all actions from a particular Surge.
- make it so that kills are automatically Strongman if they target a player form the same order
- change Lightning Rod so that it only redirects all powers from a given order/Surge to the user
- add a Redirecting power that somehow redirects all powers targeting a given order.