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Author Topic: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction  (Read 1547 times)

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Optimal_Inefficiency

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Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« on: March 22, 2020, 12:28:52 pm »
0

My apologies. Haven’t figure out how to put the image in the link.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m5QrTtVJt3SLXJ1CWiMrVS-KYbvkyTHH/view?usp=drivesdk

Man-at-Arms
$4 cost
(Action - Duration - Reaction)
Now and at the start of your next turn, gain 2 Horses.
-
When another player plays an Attack, you may immediately reveal and trash this card from your hand. If you do, gain 2 Horses and the Attack is exiled before being played.

No offense to Donald X., but I felt like there was a big missed opportunity with the new expansion. The ability to exile an attack card, a counter attack if you will, followers the natural progression of cards based on the newly available functions.

Edit: for grammar and added “...immediately reveal and...”
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 12:58:18 pm by Optimal_Inefficiency »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2020, 12:31:56 pm »
+2

I too like my cards to time-travel.

(You are reacting to the card's being played. You cannot make your reaction effect happen before the card is played.)
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D782802859

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2020, 12:37:26 pm »
+1

The phrasing should be "Gain two Horses", not +2 Horses.
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mxdata

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2020, 12:55:00 pm »
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Also, what is the reason for it being a Duration?  You're getting a total of 4 Horses, why split them between turns?  Why not just a straight up "Gain 4 Horses"?  Which honestly seems a bit excessive

But all of that seems way overpowered for $4, plus, as Jack Rudd pointed out, the timing is really weird.  Also, in multiplayer, only one player has to use the reaction to benefit everyone (well, everyone except the attacker, e.g., player A in a 3-player game plays an Attack, player B uses this reaction, B and C both benefit, but only B has to trash a card), and since the reaction is a self-trashing, that means that there's a cost to the person who benefited the other players
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 01:20:06 pm by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2020, 01:12:38 pm »
+1

It might be workable if you didn't put in the time-traveling effect.  So, the attack still goes through, but it gets Exiled, preventing it from being used again until it gets discard from the mat.  Which would be really strong against a Knight, since a Knight can never be discarded from the Exile mat, with the exception of using the Transport event.  Still feels a bit iffy in multiplayer though, since everyone other than the attacker themself benefits from the card being Exiled
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mxdata

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 01:18:17 pm »
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If you want a counter-attack that uses the Exile mat, why not do something like Coven?  So, "When another player plays an attack card, you may play this.  If you do, that person Exiles a Curse from the Supply.  If they can't, they discard their Exiled Curses"

This avoids the "time-travelling" issue, and also ensures that you're not benefiting the other players, only hurting the attacker.  And in multiplayer, multiple people could use that same reaction, and the Attacker would end up receiving multiple Curses, so it's not just one person who would react.  I'd get rid of the Duration effect, make it just "Gain 2 Horses".  4 Horses total seems a bit too strong
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mxdata

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2020, 01:24:34 pm »
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If you want a counter-attack that uses the Exile mat, why not do something like Coven?  So, "When another player plays an attack card, you may play this.  If you do, that person Exiles a Curse from the Supply.  If they can't, they discard their Exiled Curses"

This avoids the "time-travelling" issue, and also ensures that you're not benefiting the other players, only hurting the attacker.  And in multiplayer, multiple people could use that same reaction, and the Attacker would end up receiving multiple Curses, so it's not just one person who would react.  I'd get rid of the Duration effect, make it just "Gain 2 Horses".  4 Horses total seems a bit too strong

Although, the fact that the attacker can potentially get hurt worse in multiplayer than in 2 player is a problem as well.  If that card existed, I might be willing to play an attack in a 2-player game and take the risk of receiving a Curse (especially if the attack was something like a Coven - in that case both I and my opponent end up getting a Curse, so it cancels out), but in a 4-player game, the risk of getting up to 3 Curses would make me very hesitant to play any attacks at all.  Which is probably why there are no "counter-attacks" in Dominion (unless you count reacting with a Black Cat after a player Ambassadors Estates).  They don't scale very well to multiplayer
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Optimal_Inefficiency

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2020, 01:55:45 pm »
+2

With all replies noted, this would be my revised card:

Man-at-Arms
$3 cost
(Action - Reaction)
Gain 2 Horses.
-
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal and trash this from your hand, to be unaffected by it. If you do, gain 2 Horses, and the Attack card is exiled.

Issues fixed:
- Time travel
- Large Horse payout
- Potentially unnecessary duration
- Helping other opponent(s) being attacked
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pubby

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Re: Man-at-Arms: the exiling reaction
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 01:28:11 am »
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It's better but there's still the issue that it harms one specific player - the attacker. The existing "official" cards have been designed to hurt every player equally, otherwise things get political where you decide which player you want to hurt and only use the reaction against them. Either that, or you use the effect way more often on the player to your left than right because of turn order.

You could try a duration version, like Lighthouse:

Duration
At the start of your next turn, Gain two horses and trash this.
While this is in play, when another player plays an attack card it is exiled.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 01:30:14 am by pubby »
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