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AJD

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Mouse as other Ways
« on: March 21, 2020, 02:29:50 pm »
+2

Okay so Way of the Mouse / Watchtower is the same as Way of the Owl
Way of the Mouse / Herbalist (or Peasant) is the same as Way of the Monkey
Way of the Mouse / Page (or Great Hall) is the same as Way of the Pig
Way of the Mouse / Embargo is the same as Way of the Sheep?
Way of the Mouse / Moat (or a bunch of other small draw cards) is the same as Way of the Otter

But Way of the Mouse / Experiment isn't the same as Way of the Horse.

Did I miss any?
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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2020, 02:41:26 pm »
0

Way of the mouse/embargo would still have you trash your card and put an embargo token somewhere, right?

EDIT: Wait, NVM, it's not shapeshifting, it's a "leaving it there" so nevermind.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2020, 03:03:16 pm »
0

Oh man Mouse is crazy with Experiment.
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2020, 04:09:22 pm »
+2

Way Of the Mouse: Encampment. Truly beast.
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2020, 04:11:44 pm »
+1

The game should go crazy very soon with WoM Lurker as well...
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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2020, 04:12:41 pm »
0

Way of the Mouse: Pawn is a bunch of Ways and then some, sounds fun.
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2020, 04:31:27 pm »
0

Other than that, WoM: Pixie is nice to always get double boon. WoM: Ambassador - Dominion Grand Slam edition:)
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2020, 04:32:23 pm »
+1

Maybe its better to name Way of the Mouse: Card as Way of the Card? Like Way of the Ambassador.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2020, 04:39:05 pm »
0

Can't have Ambassador for Way of the Mouse though. Only does or cards.

As for Pixie, that doesn't work because of the lose track/stop moving rule. Pixie expects itself to be in play, so it can't trash itself to get the Boon. You'll just continue to cycle through the stack without actually receiving any of them.

Edit: Was thinking of Advisor. Silly me.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 04:41:41 pm by Doom_Shark »
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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2020, 04:40:53 pm »
+1

Can't have Ambassador for Way of the Mouse though. Only does or cards.

As for Pixie, that doesn't work because of the lose track/stop moving rule. Pixie expects itself to be in play, so it can't trash itself to get the Boon. You'll just continue to cycle through the stack without actually receiving any of them.

Ambassador costs $3

LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2020, 05:09:09 pm »
0

As for Pixie, that doesn't work because of the lose track/stop moving rule. Pixie expects itself to be in play, so it can't trash itself to get the Boon. You'll just continue to cycle through the stack without actually receiving any of them.
Oops, yeah, that does rule Pixie out of being too powerful, simply Pig  :)
That leaves me with Encampment, Experiment, Lurker and Ambassador as best Ways of the Mouse cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2020, 05:16:49 pm »
+3

Why Lurker? I mean, sure Lurker's good, but it's not better as a Way of the Mouse than it is as a regular pile. Whereas Encampment and Experiment are far more powerful when they're Way of the Mouse. And any cost card becomes more powerful because you could play it using cost cards.

I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2020, 05:22:09 pm »
0

Way of the Lurker makes any pair of actions into "Gain any Action". Seems to me too easily escalatable (Buy and gain any actions, and then they start multiply like rabbits). You need a little bit of luck to have at least a decent actions in the kingdom, but it's still sounds bonkers to me.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 05:25:41 pm by LordClockworks »
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2020, 05:23:27 pm »
0

I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
Way of the Turtle sounds to me as decent contender. It also makes some actions super OP.
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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2020, 05:32:39 pm »
0

I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
Way of the Turtle sounds to me as decent contender. It also makes some actions super OP.
In many boards, Chameleon is incredibly powerful to the point of being occasionally broken.
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2020, 05:49:53 pm »
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I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
Way of the Turtle sounds to me as decent contender. It also makes some actions super OP.
In many boards, Chameleon is incredibly powerful to the point of being occasionally broken.
I looked a couple examples and didn't find anything "broken" in the Chameleon. Sure it is a nice Way, but mostly it is like cool to have this, when there is a lack of draw/virtual money with abundance of the other or adds a flexibilty, when you're working with your engine.
Way of the Turtle at least gives you a Bridge combo. Simply buy Bridge(silver if not enough) and play it as turtle till you have enough Turtle'd Bridges too wipe a Province pile. And I thought about a couple other actions, which become great with a "start of turn" play.
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D782802859

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2020, 06:02:53 pm »
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I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
Way of the Turtle sounds to me as decent contender. It also makes some actions super OP.
In many boards, Chameleon is incredibly powerful to the point of being occasionally broken.
I looked a couple examples and didn't find anything "broken" in the Chameleon. Sure it is a nice Way, but mostly it is like cool to have this, when there is a lack of draw/virtual money with abundance of the other or adds a flexibilty, when you're working with your engine.
Way of the Turtle at least gives you a Bridge combo. Simply buy Bridge(silver if not enough) and play it as turtle till you have enough Turtle'd Bridges too wipe a Province pile. And I thought about a couple other actions, which become great with a "start of turn" play.
While not always gamebreaking, there are several cards, such as Courtier that can function as superlabs or labs with upside, like Coven. Festival gets to be a better Lost City, Scholar gives you +$7, and Animal Fair can be a Council Room without the penalty.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2020, 06:20:08 pm »
0

I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
Way of the Turtle sounds to me as decent contender. It also makes some actions super OP.
In many boards, Chameleon is incredibly powerful to the point of being occasionally broken.
I looked a couple examples and didn't find anything "broken" in the Chameleon. Sure it is a nice Way, but mostly it is like cool to have this, when there is a lack of draw/virtual money with abundance of the other or adds a flexibilty, when you're working with your engine.
Way of the Turtle at least gives you a Bridge combo. Simply buy Bridge(silver if not enough) and play it as turtle till you have enough Turtle'd Bridges too wipe a Province pile. And I thought about a couple other actions, which become great with a "start of turn" play.
While not always gamebreaking, there are several cards, such as Courtier that can function as superlabs or labs with upside, like Coven. Festival gets to be a better Lost City, Scholar gives you +$7, and Animal Fair can be a Council Room without the penalty.

Right, while not any more game-breaking than King's Court; it does make a lot of cards suddenly strictly better than various official cards.
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mxdata

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2020, 06:27:18 pm »
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I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
Way of the Turtle sounds to me as decent contender. It also makes some actions super OP.
In many boards, Chameleon is incredibly powerful to the point of being occasionally broken.
I looked a couple examples and didn't find anything "broken" in the Chameleon. Sure it is a nice Way, but mostly it is like cool to have this, when there is a lack of draw/virtual money with abundance of the other or adds a flexibilty, when you're working with your engine.
Way of the Turtle at least gives you a Bridge combo. Simply buy Bridge(silver if not enough) and play it as turtle till you have enough Turtle'd Bridges too wipe a Province pile. And I thought about a couple other actions, which become great with a "start of turn" play.
While not always gamebreaking, there are several cards, such as Courtier that can function as superlabs or labs with upside, like Coven. Festival gets to be a better Lost City, Scholar gives you +$7, and Animal Fair can be a Council Room without the penalty.

Right, while not any more game-breaking than King's Court; it does make a lot of cards suddenly strictly better than various official cards.

And if you combine it with King's Court/Mastermind, it can really get insane - Scholar in particular, if you choose Chameleon for the first two plays and the normal option for the third, you have +$14 and a 7-card hand!  If there's any +buy in the kingdom, you're almost guaranteed a double Province, and even triple Province isn't out of the question

And if you want to get absolutely absurd - Fortune with all that.  Assuming there's enough +buys available, you could easily get quadruple or more Province!
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crj

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2020, 08:26:07 pm »
+1

Way of the Lurker makes any pair of actions into "Gain any Action".
Agreed.

In particular, when building your engine you don't need any Lurkers; you just accumulate the cards you want and use them as Lurkers until your engine is complete.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2020, 08:27:24 pm »
+3

Way of the Lurker makes any pair of actions into "Gain any Action".
Agreed.

In particular, when building your engine you don't need any Lurkers; you just accumulate the cards you want and use them as Lurkers until your engine is complete.

Ah, I see... so it's because Lurker is a card you only want until you'd rather have something else. In the same way, Mouse-Chapel would be stronger than just regular Chapel, because you can buy the card that you actually want the whole game rather than a card you only want in the first couple of turns.

*Edit* AND because Lurker is a card you want to play more than 1 of per turn; which doesn't apply to Chapel.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 08:35:59 pm by GendoIkari »
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LordClockworks

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Re: Mouse as other Ways
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2020, 10:02:23 pm »
0

I think in general, Way of the Mouse sounds like the most Powerful Way. Sure there's plenty of weak and cards, but they're almost all strictly better than several of the other Ways.
Way of the Turtle sounds to me as decent contender. It also makes some actions super OP.
In many boards, Chameleon is incredibly powerful to the point of being occasionally broken.
I looked a couple examples and didn't find anything "broken" in the Chameleon. Sure it is a nice Way, but mostly it is like cool to have this, when there is a lack of draw/virtual money with abundance of the other or adds a flexibilty, when you're working with your engine.
Way of the Turtle at least gives you a Bridge combo. Simply buy Bridge(silver if not enough) and play it as turtle till you have enough Turtle'd Bridges too wipe a Province pile. And I thought about a couple other actions, which become great with a "start of turn" play.
While not always gamebreaking, there are several cards, such as Courtier that can function as superlabs or labs with upside, like Coven. Festival gets to be a better Lost City, Scholar gives you +$7, and Animal Fair can be a Council Room without the penalty.

Right, while not any more game-breaking than King's Court; it does make a lot of cards suddenly strictly better than various official cards.

And if you combine it with King's Court/Mastermind, it can really get insane - Scholar in particular, if you choose Chameleon for the first two plays and the normal option for the third, you have +$14 and a 7-card hand!  If there's any +buy in the kingdom, you're almost guaranteed a double Province, and even triple Province isn't out of the question

And if you want to get absolutely absurd - Fortune with all that.  Assuming there's enough +buys available, you could easily get quadruple or more Province!
Way of the Turtle with KC transforms your engine into something super-reliable: play and buy everything you need and then lay out your next turn any way you want to.
As I look at different actions it gives almost each and every one some new tricks.
It's downside that you'll need villages to play the cards reliably often, but it also turns the one that you would like to play at certain timings into much more deadlier ones - you can combine attacks into a brutal chain, set the trasher for when you'll hit the things you'll like to trash, wait out the Lighthouses, and simply "pseudo-trash" all unneeded action cards (like Cursed-out Witches, Trashed-Out Trashers and Ruins). You can make an interesting Turtle-Vineyard deck, with a little bit of support. And well it generally helps combine actions into some combos.
As for the Chameleon: I think you actually listed almost all more interesting cards. Courtier and Festival are very good. Scholar is not very interesting, it's too easy to hit province, which i think will make luck a dicisive factor (without KC/Throne combo). I looked through cards and Chameleon mostly makes better non-terminal silvers (as +1 Card>+1$ usually) and some attacks, that have normally given money become more brutal, as you can chain them like a Torturer.
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