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Author Topic: Menagerie Bonus Previews  (Read 66677 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #375 on: March 17, 2020, 11:29:21 am »
+3

Oh boy: Seize the Day!

That's going to set up a fascinating game of chicken as the Provinces run low.

How is one supposed to track it, though? Time to break out the Project cubes from Renaissance?

In practice, there will never be a question.... everyone will remember if it was bought by you. But in theory, you're right. The only other "once per game" event we've had, Inheritance, caused you to set aside a card which serves as a physical reminder.
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Willvon

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #376 on: March 17, 2020, 11:39:00 am »
+1

And now we know the last 2 teased cards.

"5 or fewer" - Stampede
"$1 less per" - Destrier
"a different thing" - Scrap
"an unused Action" - Way of the Mouse
"either now or" - Barge
"hand three times" - Mastermind
"instead, and vice-versa" - Way of the Chameleon
"instead of paying" - Animal Fair
"province, a duchy" - Alliance
"they discard their" - Coven

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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #377 on: March 17, 2020, 12:10:16 pm »
0

Hmm. Goatherd: "+1 Card per card the player to your right trashed on their last turn"

What if they trash the same card twice? What if you can't tell?

I take it that it's not counting the physical copies of cards that were trashed but instead the number of times some card is trashed, so trashing one fortress four times would count as four cards trashed, even though it is only one physical copy of fortress that is being trashed. This is the only way that this makes sense to me; like you said, based on the fact that you couldn't know for sure if the player trashed four different fortresses one time each or one fortress four times, it must be counting the number of times some card was trashed.
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #378 on: March 17, 2020, 12:12:01 pm »
+3

Way of the (Royal) Seal made me laugh a little.

In addition, seals balance stuff on top of their snouts so it kinda fits with the mechanic.

Wizard_Amul

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #379 on: March 17, 2020, 12:13:22 pm »
+2

Oh boy: Seize the Day!

That's going to set up a fascinating game of chicken as the Provinces run low.

How is one supposed to track it, though? Time to break out the Project cubes from Renaissance?

It changes the endgame a ton. Assuming you've only bought provinces so far and your opponent hasn't bought any, if there are 6 provinces left and your opponent has 20 coins and 3 buys, you can't safely double province since your opponent could double province + seize the day and then double province + estate.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 12:14:32 pm by Wizard_Amul »
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Willvon

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #380 on: March 17, 2020, 12:51:24 pm »
0

Can someone help me understand this statement better?  The rulebook says in regard to Ways: “The choice to use a Way or not happens after "first" abilities on cards like Moat and Kiln.”

Moat says “When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand”. Since this use of Moat is not playing the card, how would the “first” ability ever come before using Moat as a Way? The revealing and the playing of the card happen at completely different times, the “first” on someone else’s turn, the other on your turn. So why would it be necessary to make that distinction in the rules? Or is it referring to the idea that since an Attack card was put in play, even though you are playing it as a Way, other players can still “first” reveal their Moats if they want to do so? But if that is the case, why bother to reveal it?

I think I understand what it is referring to in regard to Kiln. You play Kiln, then you play the next card as a Way, but before resolving whatever the Way requires, you first gain a copy of that card since it is now in play. However, if you play Kiln as a Way, you don’t get to gain a copy of the card you play after it.
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #381 on: March 17, 2020, 12:55:31 pm »
+4

Can someone help me understand this statement better?  The rulebook says in regard to Ways: “The choice to use a Way or not happens after "first" abilities on cards like Moat and Kiln.”

Moat says “When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand”. Since this use of Moat is not playing the card, how would the “first” ability ever come before using Moat as a Way? The revealing and the playing of the card happen at completely different times, the “first” on someone else’s turn, the other on your turn. So why would it be necessary to make that distinction in the rules? Or is it referring to the idea that since an Attack card was put in play, even though you are playing it as a Way, other players can still “first” reveal their Moats if they want to do so? But if that is the case, why bother to reveal it?

I think I understand what it is referring to in regard to Kiln. You play Kiln, then you play the next card as a Way, but before resolving whatever the Way requires, you first gain a copy of that card since it is now in play. However, if you play Kiln as a Way, you don’t get to gain a copy of the card you play after it.

When you play an Attack card, other players use Reactions before you decide to use it as a Way. This matters; you can see if everybody Moats your Attack before you decide.

Tozar

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #382 on: March 17, 2020, 01:07:31 pm »
+2

Interesting.  Some of the Ways are not in the rule book.  Don't think we've ever seen that before.  "Some of the Ways are very simple. Here are notes for the others."
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crj

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #383 on: March 17, 2020, 01:13:17 pm »
0

When you play an Attack card, other players use Reactions before you decide to use it as a Way. This matters; you can see if everybody Moats your Attack before you decide.
Concur.

I did figure it out, but I had to pause and think, mainly beause at first I read it as talking about using a Way on a play of Moat or Kiln. Possibly, that could have been worded better.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 01:14:47 pm by crj »
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #384 on: March 17, 2020, 02:23:37 pm »
+1

Does this mean it is releasing tomorrow?
Jay expects the physical copies in his warehouse around Monday (that's in Chicago).

However the online version will go up tomorrow.
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #385 on: March 17, 2020, 02:24:41 pm »
+1

Typo in the rulebook; under the Way of the Mouse FAQ:

Quote
Text below a dividing line
(other that setup) will not do anything.
Damn.
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #386 on: March 17, 2020, 02:25:14 pm »
+1

I take it that it's not counting the physical copies of cards that were trashed but instead the number of times some card is trashed, so trashing one fortress four times would count as four cards trashed, even though it is only one physical copy of fortress that is being trashed. This is the only way that this makes sense to me; like you said, based on the fact that you couldn't know for sure if the player trashed four different fortresses one time each or one fortress four times, it must be counting the number of times some card was trashed.
Yes, it's the number of times trashing a card occurred.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #387 on: March 17, 2020, 02:45:31 pm »
0

Typo in the rulebook; under the Way of the Mouse FAQ:

Quote
Text below a dividing line
(other that setup) will not do anything.
Damn.
There's also an error in the recommended sets for Hinterlands.  The set "Intersection" says "Way of the Mouse-Crossroads"

EDIT: No, wait, never mind.  That means "the set aside card is Crossroads"
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 02:51:47 pm by mxdata »
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scolapasta

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #388 on: March 17, 2020, 02:50:41 pm »
+1

Typo in the rulebook; under the Way of the Mouse FAQ:

Quote
Text below a dividing line
(other that setup) will not do anything.
Damn.
There's also an error in the recommended sets for Hinterlands.  The set "Intersection" says "Way of the Mouse-Crossroads"

I assume that's meant to be the $2-$3 card Way Of the Mouse sets aside.
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J Reggie

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #389 on: March 17, 2020, 02:51:51 pm »
0

Typo in the rulebook; under the Way of the Mouse FAQ:

Quote
Text below a dividing line
(other that setup) will not do anything.
Damn.
There's also an error in the recommended sets for Hinterlands.  The set "Intersection" says "Way of the Mouse-Crossroads"

How is that a typo? Crossroads is the card for Way of the Mouse.

Edit, I guess I was ninja'd and didn't get a PPE.

Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #390 on: March 17, 2020, 02:58:03 pm »
+15

The rulebook leaves out the simplest Ways, which means there are 7 you haven't seen yet. So here they are in text form.

Way of the Camel: Way
Exile a Gold from the Supply.

Way of the Frog: Way
+1 Action
When you discard this from play
this turn, put it onto your deck.

Way of the Goat: Way
Trash a card from your hand.

Way of the Monkey: Way
+1 Buy
+$1

Way of the Mule: Way
+1 Action
+$1

Way of the Otter: Way
+2 Cards

Way of the Worm: Way
Exile an Estate from the Supply.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #391 on: March 17, 2020, 03:05:17 pm »
0

The rulebook leaves out the simplest Ways, which means there are 7 you haven't seen yet. So here they are in text form.

Way of the Camel: Way
Exile a Gold from the Supply.

Way of the Frog: Way
+1 Action
When you discard this from play
this turn, put it onto your deck.

Way of the Goat: Way
Trash a card from your hand.

Way of the Monkey: Way
+1 Buy
+$1

Way of the Mule: Way
+1 Action
+$1

Way of the Otter: Way
+2 Cards

Way of the Worm: Way
Exile an Estate from the Supply.

Way of the Worm could lead to some interesting play.  While Estates remain, it's essentially equivalent to +1VP, but once Estates are out, it becomes useless.  I suspect it would tend to lead to the Estates pile running out fairly early
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #392 on: March 17, 2020, 03:11:08 pm »
0

Typo in the rulebook; under the Way of the Mouse FAQ:

Quote
Text below a dividing line
(other that setup) will not do anything.
Damn.
There's also an error in the recommended sets for Hinterlands.  The set "Intersection" says "Way of the Mouse-Crossroads"

I assume that's meant to be the $2-$3 card Way Of the Mouse sets aside.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted.  Probably should've read what Way of the Mouse actually does before assuming it was an error *facepalm*
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #393 on: March 17, 2020, 03:25:48 pm »
0

Wow, playing Actions in your Buy phase seems to be the new thing. Before we had Capitalism, Innovation and Scepter. Before that, getting +Actions in your Buy phase was some weird edge case scenario that people asked about and was only possible with +1 Action token on Crown or a split pile, or an Echanted Crown.

Now we have, so far, also Gamble and Toil. And with Ways, Crown can do Action-y things in your Buy phase.

I also think this is the first card that directly lets you play a Treasure in the second part of your Buy phase (when you're buying cards). Before, this was only possible with Innovation in combination with Crown, Black Market or Storyteller.

Add March to the list.

urza

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #394 on: March 17, 2020, 03:26:59 pm »
+5

We all thought "unused action" was going to be some kind of Diadem variant, but it's actually closer to Young Witch?  Very tricky!
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #395 on: March 17, 2020, 03:28:35 pm »
+1

The rulebook leaves out the simplest Ways, which means there are 7 you haven't seen yet. So here they are in text form.

Way of the Camel: Way
Exile a Gold from the Supply.

Way of the Frog: Way
+1 Action
When you discard this from play
this turn, put it onto your deck.

Way of the Goat: Way
Trash a card from your hand.

Way of the Monkey: Way
+1 Buy
+$1

Way of the Mule: Way
+1 Action
+$1

Way of the Otter: Way
+2 Cards

Way of the Worm: Way
Exile an Estate from the Supply.

Way of the Worm could lead to some interesting play.  While Estates remain, it's essentially equivalent to +1VP, but once Estates are out, it becomes useless.  I suspect it would tend to lead to the Estates pile running out fairly early

Inheritance could let you play an Estate to Exile more Estates!  And as long as you're able to gain an Estate before the pile runs out, you have a bunch of Estates now

Also, Shelters games would likely lead to a rush on Estates, especially if there are plenty of +Actions in the kingdom so that you don't need to use Necropolis' +2 Actions
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crj

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #396 on: March 17, 2020, 06:20:44 pm »
+4

Way of the Camel opens the possibility for an even more stupid version of the Donate pin: Donate everything except a single action that doesn't generate spending money. Now you have inescapable debt, despite a growing pile of exiled Gold you can never reach. (-8
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D782802859

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #397 on: March 17, 2020, 06:40:55 pm »
+4

Way of the Camel opens the possibility for an even more stupid version of the Donate pin: Donate everything except a single action that doesn't generate spending money. Now you have inescapable debt, despite a growing pile of exiled Gold you can never reach. (-8
This feels like it should be a metaphor but I can't for the life figure out what it is.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #398 on: March 17, 2020, 06:42:17 pm »
0

Does this mean it is releasing tomorrow?
Jay expects the physical copies in his warehouse around Monday (that's in Chicago).

However the online version will go up tomorrow.

So, it won't be available in stores until sometime next week?
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Willvon

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #399 on: March 17, 2020, 09:24:53 pm »
+1

Can someone help me understand this statement better?  The rulebook says in regard to Ways: “The choice to use a Way or not happens after "first" abilities on cards like Moat and Kiln.”

Moat says “When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand”. Since this use of Moat is not playing the card, how would the “first” ability ever come before using Moat as a Way? The revealing and the playing of the card happen at completely different times, the “first” on someone else’s turn, the other on your turn. So why would it be necessary to make that distinction in the rules? Or is it referring to the idea that since an Attack card was put in play, even though you are playing it as a Way, other players can still “first” reveal their Moats if they want to do so? But if that is the case, why bother to reveal it?

I think I understand what it is referring to in regard to Kiln. You play Kiln, then you play the next card as a Way, but before resolving whatever the Way requires, you first gain a copy of that card since it is now in play. However, if you play Kiln as a Way, you don’t get to gain a copy of the card you play after it.

When you play an Attack card, other players use Reactions before you decide to use it as a Way. This matters; you can see if everybody Moats your Attack before you decide.

Thank you Jeebus and CRJ. The wording just threw me off a little bit. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 09:42:21 pm by Willvon »
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