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Author Topic: Menagerie Bonus Previews  (Read 66154 times)

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Donald X.

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Menagerie Bonus Previews
« on: March 07, 2020, 03:03:09 am »
+15

1. Way of the Chameleon: scroll down!
2. Way of the Rat: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg825937#msg825937
3. Village Green: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826022#msg826022
4. Alliance: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826128#msg826128
5. Gamble: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826331#msg826331
6. Camel Train: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826449#msg826449
7. Way of the Horse: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826562#msg826562
8. Way of the Pig / Way of the Sheep: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826668#msg826668
9. Stampede: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826734#msg826734
10. Cardinal: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826816#msg826816
11. Desperation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20150.msg826945#msg826945

* * *

Bonus Preview 1: Way of the Chameleon

People asked for various things, but the big one was Ways, everyone wants to see more. Someone wanted the "vice-versa" card and someone wanted the most rule-bending things, so here's all three of those, and the most exotic thing in the set.



Durations are tricky. It only applies to this turn; if you play Merchant Ship using Way of the Chameleon, you get +2 Cards this turn and +$2 next turn. Also some things get you cards but aren't "+Cards"; Way of the Chameleon doesn't apply to them. There will be a rulebook eventually!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 03:00:56 am by Donald X. »
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Sparafucile

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2020, 03:06:48 am »
0

 Very interesting card!   If I chameleon a second time in a turn - does it undo the first one - putting all the cards back to normal? 
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kieranmillar

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2020, 03:08:32 am »
+2

Very interesting card!   If I chameleon a second time in a turn - does it undo the first one - putting all the cards back to normal?
You choose to apply Ways on a card by card basis, so its either active or not for an individual card play, you can't apply it twice.
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Sparafucile

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2020, 03:12:21 am »
0

It says each time ... this turn.

Also. - ways are instead of the card text.... so....
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kieranmillar

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2020, 03:19:29 am »
+5

The key word is "that", meaning it only applies to the one card you applied the Way to. The "this turn" clause is there I imagine to prevent tracking issues with durations.
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2020, 03:46:47 am »
+4

The key word is "that", meaning it only applies to the one card you applied the Way to. The "this turn" clause is there I imagine to prevent tracking issues with durations.
Correct.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2020, 03:48:31 am »
0

Bonus Preview 1:

People asked for various things, but the big one was Ways, everyone wants to see more. Someone wanted the "vice-versa" card and someone wanted the most rule-bending things, so here's all three of those, and the most exotic thing in the set.



Durations are tricky. It only applies to this turn; if you play Merchant Ship using Way of the Chameleon, you get +2 Cards this turn and +$2 next turn. Also some things get you cards but aren't "+Cards"; Way of the Chameleon doesn't apply to them. There will be a rulebook eventually!

So, a Smithy could be turned into a terminal Gold and a Goon turns into +2 Cards +1 Buy

How does it interact with Capitalism?  Does Capitalism only look at the "original" text, so that you still wouldn't be able to play a Smithy during Buy phase (even though you could use it for +$3 during your Action phase), but you could play, say, a Livery for +3 Cards instead of +$3?
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Violet CLM

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2020, 03:52:42 am »
+9

So Poor House is +4 Cards and costs $1? I'll take it.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2020, 03:55:21 am »
+2

So Poor House is +4 Cards and costs $1? I'll take it.

But only if you have no Treasure cards in your hand.  It's now "+4 Cards.  Reveal your hand, -1 Card per Treasure card in your hand (you can't go below 0 cards)"  No, wait, it specifically says "+Cards" and "+coins" on the Way, so I guess it wouldn't matter how many Treasure cards you had.  It would basically become "+4 Cards.  Reveal your hand, -$1 per Treasure card in your hand (you can't go below $0)" making that clause meaningless ... except that you'd still have to reveal your hand, but who cares?  Dang, that does make Poor House awesome!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 04:08:49 am by mxdata »
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J Reggie

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2020, 03:59:36 am »
0

I can't wait to use this on cards like Peddler! I always wondered if there would be a way to directly switch +bonuses, and here it is.

So Poor House is +4 Cards and costs $1? I'll take it.

But only if you have no Treasure cards in your hand.  It's now "+4 Cards.  Reveal your hand, -1 Card per Treasure card in your hand (you can't go below 0 cards)"

Would it be -1 card? I'd think the only thing that changes would be the plusses, not the minuses.

mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2020, 04:02:05 am »
0

I can't wait to use this on cards like Peddler! I always wondered if there would be a way to directly switch +bonuses, and here it is.

So Poor House is +4 Cards and costs $1? I'll take it.

But only if you have no Treasure cards in your hand.  It's now "+4 Cards.  Reveal your hand, -1 Card per Treasure card in your hand (you can't go below 0 cards)"

Would it be -1 card? I'd think the only thing that changes would be the plusses, not the minuses.

Yeah, I corrected that.  You're right, as written it doesn't change the minuses, so it's a card costing $1 that draws an unconditional 4 cards!  I'd predict that in a game with Poor House and Chameleon, the Poor House would get bought up very quickly
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2020, 04:06:40 am »
+4

How does it interact with Capitalism?  Does Capitalism only look at the "original" text, so that you still wouldn't be able to play a Smithy during Buy phase (even though you could use it for +$3 during your Action phase), but you could play, say, a Livery for +3 Cards instead of +$3?
Livery has +$3 so Capitalism makes it a Treasure. In my buy phase I play it, which I can do because it's a Treasure. It's still an Action so I can use Way of the Chameleon on it, which I do. This causes me to get +3 Cards and the other thing Livery does.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2020, 04:10:32 am »
0

What's the reason for making it so it can't be used for the Duration effect?
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2020, 04:15:06 am »
+4

What's the reason for making it so it can't be used for the Duration effect?
Tracking! Nothing tracks that you did that, so you wouldn't remember (irl).
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2020, 04:22:31 am »
0

What's the reason for making it so it can't be used for the Duration effect?
Tracking! Nothing tracks that you did that, so you wouldn't remember (irl).
Ah, of course!  It would be too easy to forget what choice you'd made, and you can't apply the Way to only part of the card.  Makes perfect sense now
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2020, 04:31:37 am »
+1

I can't wait to play that Chameleon + Poor House combo!
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2020, 04:44:37 am »
0

Minion would be interesting with Chameleon.  You'd have the option of using it as a Lab or of discarding your hand for $4 if you applied Chameleon to it.  So, Minion now has a total of four ways to play it, and Count now has twelve total ways to play it (since the +$3 option becomes +3 cards if you use Chameleon, so 3*4)
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2020, 04:50:15 am »
+1

Minion would be interesting with Chameleon.  You'd have the option of using it as a Lab or of discarding your hand for $4 if you applied Chameleon to it.  So, Minion now has a total of four ways to play it, and Count now has twelve total ways to play it (since the +$3 option becomes +3 cards if you use Chameleon, so 3*4)

And it becomes a lot easier to get the +2 Actions on Diplomat if you use Chameleon.  Unless you played it from a hand of 7 or more cards, it would effectively be +$2 +2 Actions
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2020, 04:55:49 am »
+1

At first I thought Chameleon would have no effect on cards like Peddler or Merchant, but then I realized that Chameleon would allow it to override Enchantress, as mentioned in the first post about Ways "Enchantress is a lot like a Way. The main thing is that you can beat Enchantress by doing the Way instead."  So, normally there'd be no effect, since there's no practical difference between +1 Card +1 Action +$1 and +$1 +1 Action +1 Card, but if it's your first card with an Enchantress attack in play, it overrides Enchantress!
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silverspawn

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2020, 05:38:40 am »
+2

Squire strictly stronger than village confirmed. City Quarter will also be fun.

I imagine the most consequential change will just be to up the powerlevel of various cards. +1$ is definitely weaker than +1 card in general, so we will have lots of cards that are blatantly overpowered for their price point. Think of Diplomat. Or Festival.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2020, 05:42:09 am »
0

Squire strictly stronger than village confirmed. City Quarter will also be fun.

I imagine the most consequential change will just be to up the powerlevel of various cards. +1$ is definitely weaker than +1 card in general, so we will have lots of cards that are blatantly overpowered for their price point. Think of Diplomat. Or Festival.

Some trash-for-benefit cards have an interesting effect.  Forager becomes a non-terminal draw, with a variable number of cards drawn for example.  Death Cart lets you draw *five cards*!  And Poor House is basically Hunting Grounds without the on-trash effect
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silverspawn

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2020, 05:46:40 am »
+3

I was going to bring storyteller up as a joke, but actually it now allows you to play treasures during your turn for +$, which is legitimately useful. Unless the effect doesn't trigger because it says "draw cards" instead of "+X Cards" ...?
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pubby

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2020, 05:58:41 am »
+3

Scholar is funny with this. +$7.
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J Reggie

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2020, 08:59:05 am »
0

I can't wait to use this on cards like Peddler! I always wondered if there would be a way to directly switch +bonuses, and here it is.

So Poor House is +4 Cards and costs $1? I'll take it.

But only if you have no Treasure cards in your hand.  It's now "+4 Cards.  Reveal your hand, -1 Card per Treasure card in your hand (you can't go below 0 cards)"

Would it be -1 card? I'd think the only thing that changes would be the plusses, not the minuses.

Yeah, I corrected that.  You're right, as written it doesn't change the minuses, so it's a card costing $1 that draws an unconditional 4 cards!  I'd predict that in a game with Poor House and Chameleon, the Poor House would get bought up very quickly

Yeah, I guess PPE doesn't apply to edits.

crj

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Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2020, 09:02:09 am »
+1

Scholar is funny with this. +$7.
Woah! Epic if throned with some spare +Buy.
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