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Author Topic: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events  (Read 33246 times)

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Ingix

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2020, 06:55:58 am »
+7

But there isn't really a disctinction: If you eternally Turtle a card turn for turn, it is a much 'out of your deck' as the cards on the Exile mat.
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Titus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2020, 07:44:36 am »
+1

Stunning Way of doing Expansion like this, this adds so much to the game. Thanks a million Donald!!

What about Tokens from Adventures interacting with Ways? Do I get e.g. Lost Arts benefit for choosing Way at certain Action?
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J Reggie

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2020, 07:47:54 am »
+1

I just played a game that included Populate, Way of the Ox, and Prince.  I bought Populate, and so Prince was one of the cards I got.  I chose to set aside Catapult with the Prince (that was pretty much the only decent cheap Action in that kingdom).  Way of the Ox was very useful, because in turns where I wouldn't want to trash any of the cards in my starting hand, I could simply use Way of the Ox on the Catapult.  There's a lot of other combinations with Prince that would also benefit from Way of the Ox

That seems like it shouldn't work. Wouldn't Prince fail to set aside Catapult if Way of the Turtle already set it aside?

Is the expansion symbol in a different place for these landscapes? Is that so more of them can fit on two lines?

Also is the ironic toiling a reference to ironic tilling from Guilds? Yay for self-referential jokes!

pst

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2020, 08:07:40 am »
+1

Oh, now I'm waiting for the Dominion version of this!

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crj

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2020, 08:14:34 am »
+4

it can be Turtles all the way down.
Now I'm wondering how long you've been sitting on that one...
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theorel

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2020, 08:24:52 am »
+1

I just played a game that included Populate, Way of the Ox, and Prince.  I bought Populate, and so Prince was one of the cards I got.  I chose to set aside Catapult with the Prince (that was pretty much the only decent cheap Action in that kingdom).  Way of the Ox was very useful, because in turns where I wouldn't want to trash any of the cards in my starting hand, I could simply use Way of the Ox on the Catapult.  There's a lot of other combinations with Prince that would also benefit from Way of the Ox

That seems like it shouldn't work. Wouldn't Prince fail to set aside Catapult if Way of the Turtle already set it aside?

Is the expansion symbol in a different place for these landscapes? Is that so more of them can fit on two lines?

Also is the ironic toiling a reference to ironic tilling from Guilds? Yay for self-referential jokes!
He was using Way of the Ox not Way of the Turtle.
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markusin

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2020, 08:37:37 am »
+2

Also is the ironic toiling a reference to ironic tilling from Guilds? Yay for self-referential jokes!

I came here to say the same thing.

I like the new ways to play Dominion that these landscapes introduce.
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J Reggie

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2020, 08:38:08 am »
0

Oh oops, it's too early to read well.

Jimmmmm

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2020, 08:47:08 am »
+5

What about Tokens from Adventures interacting with Ways? Do I get e.g. Lost Arts benefit for choosing Way at certain Action?

I'd say yes. So you could put +1 Card onto Ruins and Turtle them into Hirelings.
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crj

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2020, 09:03:30 am »
0

I've just realised how awesome it would be to have a Watchtower in hand while Populating. (-8
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Ingix

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2020, 09:04:58 am »
+2

About tokens and Ways:

Formally, you get the effects of the tokens before you even decide if you want to use a Way or not.  If you draw a card from the +1 Card token, you might even reconsider if to (not) use a Way.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2020, 09:08:00 am »
0

Ways Predictions:

Way of the Moat Horse: +2 cards

Way of the Raptor: Trash a card from your hand

Way of the Silver: +2 Coins
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pst

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2020, 09:15:22 am »
+2

Ways work any time you play an Action card.

That is interesting! I've been thinking about Crown and the Ways (which maybe will be answered and exemplified in the rule book, making this very moot), but meanwhile I want to check that I got it right.

Since it works any time you play an Action card it should be possible to use the Way even when you play Crowns during your Buy phase.

If you Turtle a Crown it will be played at the start of your next turn. Then you don't have a chance to declare that you want your Action phase to end before you play it (which you might want). I don't know if there is an official ruling, but a rule clarification in the entry for Prince in the Wiki says that the "start of your turn is considered part of your Action phase".
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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2020, 09:16:33 am »
+1

when you play an Action-that-has-an-Adventures-Token-on-it as a Way, you still get the bonus first?
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octelium

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2020, 09:20:37 am »
0

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michaeljb

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2020, 09:23:33 am »
+5

It’s going to be challenging to not say “This is the way” when playing a Bounty Hunter.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2020, 09:44:05 am »
+2

Way of the Turtle would be quite convenient for cards whose usefulness depends on what's in your hand.  E.g., you could keep setting aside a chapel until you get something you want to trash, or you could just keep your Tournament set aside until you draw a Province

Worth noting that a Turtle'd Tournament is a terminal action, though.
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pubby

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2020, 09:46:18 am »
+6

Turtle seems like the ideal megaturn enabler. Just turtle your bridges until you have enough in play.

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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2020, 09:47:11 am »
+5

I think I have this right?

Example: +Card token on Moat pile, Way of the Ox on board.

I play a Moat as my last action for some reason.
    Token first gives me +1 Card, before I do anything. I draw a Smithy.
Now I choose whether to use Moat's effect or Way of the Ox's effect. I want to play the Smithy more than the Moat, and I'd like to not draw anything dead, so I can choose Way of the Ox, even though I already drew a card from the token.

So in this case, Moat can either be a vanilla Village (+1 Card, +2 Actions) or a Smithy (+1 Card, +2 Cards), but I get to choose which one I like best after I draw one card from the token. It seems like Pathfinding, while already very powerful, is even more powerful when combined with Ways.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2020, 09:48:14 am »
+4

Even if you don't want all cards from Populate, it has some extreme potential synergies (don't know how many of these will actually be good in a given game, though): gardens, vineyards, and philosopher's stone come to mind. Like mxdata said, watchtower in hand is actually really good, too.

Buy Populate, then buy Commerce. Enjoy your 10 Golds (that you probably don't want in a deck that can make and just got 10 new action cards).
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2020, 09:51:01 am »
+2

Even if you don't want all cards from Populate, it has some extreme potential synergies (don't know how many of these will actually be good in a given game, though): gardens, vineyards, and philosopher's stone come to mind. Like mxdata said, watchtower in hand is actually really good, too.

Buy Populate, then buy Commerce. Enjoy your 10 Golds (that you probably don't want in a deck that can make and just got 10 new action cards).

Twist: The game also has Tomb, and you have a Watchtower in hand. Good-bye 10 Gold! Hello 10 VP!
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Ingix

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2020, 10:11:53 am »
+2


That is interesting! I've been thinking about Crown and the Ways (which maybe will be answered and exemplified in the rule book, making this very moot), but meanwhile I want to check that I got it right.

Since it works any time you play an Action card it should be possible to use the Way even when you play Crowns during your Buy phase.

Right, same for Werewolf.

If you Turtle a Crown it will be played at the start of your next turn. Then you don't have a chance to declare that you want your Action phase to end before you play it (which you might want). I don't know if there is an official ruling, but a rule clarification in the entry for Prince in the Wiki says that the "start of your turn is considered part of your Action phase".

Also correct. Your turtled Crown will inevitably by played during an Action phase, so act like a Throne Room.
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Ingix

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2020, 10:16:17 am »
+2

I think I have this right?

Example: +Card token on Moat pile, Way of the Ox on board.

I play a Moat as my last action for some reason.
    Token first gives me +1 Card, before I do anything. I draw a Smithy.
Now I choose whether to use Moat's effect or Way of the Ox's effect. I want to play the Smithy more than the Moat, and I'd like to not draw anything dead, so I can choose Way of the Ox, even though I already drew a card from the token.

So in this case, Moat can either be a vanilla Village (+1 Card, +2 Actions) or a Smithy (+1 Card, +2 Cards), but I get to choose which one I like best after I draw one card from the token. It seems like Pathfinding, while already very powerful, is even more powerful when combined with Ways.

All correct. With Pathfinding you get even more info about your hand before you make the decision for a Way or not.

Note that opponnts reacting to your attacks with Moats or similar effects also happens before the Way decision. So if your Coven is Moated, Turtle it aways for next turn if you don't need the +1 Action and +$2 right now.
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2020, 10:41:02 am »
0

I was also wondering about timing and shape-shifting. So Ingix confirmed that the timing is after before-play abilities (Adventures tokens, Reactions, Urchin, Kiln). This makes it sound a lot like Enchantress, that you resolve the Way instead of the play ability, and it's not shape-shifting. This means:

* I play a card with a Way, then I play Scepter and choose to replay the card. I can now choose to resolve it normally or with a Way.

* With Capitalism, an Action card with +$ is still a Treasure even if played with a Way. And an Action card without +$ is not a Treasure even if played with a Way that has +$.

Is this correct?

Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2020, 10:51:36 am »
+1

Can you use a Way when playing a card affected by Enchantress?

Yes, Donald X. answered on Discord: "Enchantress is a lot like a Way. The main thing is that you can beat Enchantress by doing the Way instead."

So this means that it has the same timing as Enchantress? You can choose to resolve Enchantress first and then the Way, meaning that the Way "wins". Or you can choose to do it the other way around, but the result would be the same as not choosing the Way at all.
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