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Author Topic: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile  (Read 17574 times)

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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2020, 05:16:40 pm »
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I wonder if there might be a sort of Exile version of Fortress, like a card with a clause "When you Exile this, put it into your hand".  Call it Escape Artist maybe
That would be really cool in my opinion.

The problem with this is that it there are only 8 cards (and 6 landscapes) that use the Exile mechanic. And we've already seen that at least 2 of those don't exile just any arbitrary card. So in most Kingdoms a card, you'd be paying extra for this a useless feature. One way to do this would be either as a spilt pile or with a non supply pile, but we already know that Menagerie doesn't have any of those (besides Horses).

Trashing, of course, is different in that it's a mechanic that is in every expansion, so most kingdoms have a way to trash something.

(This kind of card is better suited as a fan variant, since you can just establish any arbitrary set up rules you want)

It would work well with Bounty Hunter.  You'd always get the $3 bonus from Bounty Hunter, since there'll never be a copy of that card on the Exile mat, and we don't know if there's any other "exile-for-benefit" cards
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scolapasta

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Re: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2020, 05:22:10 pm »
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Sure, I wasn't saying that it wouldn't work with any of the official Exile cards*, just that the odds of getting one of these combinations in a Kingdom are, imho, too low for an official card to have that feature.

* like you said Bounty Hunter + Fortress is +2 Actions, +$3 every time.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile
« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2020, 05:35:16 pm »
+1

Sure, I wasn't saying that it wouldn't work with any of the official Exile cards*, just that the odds of getting one of these combinations in a Kingdom are, imho, too low for an official card to have that feature.

* like you said Bounty Hunter + Fortress is +2 Actions, +$3 every time.

Yeah, that's a valid point.  Unless, like you suggested, it's a split pile, it wouldn't be useful in most mixed sets.  But a split pile with the top half letting you Exile a card for X benefit and the bottom half being this Exile-Fortress could probably work
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2020, 09:58:57 pm »
+1

I wonder if there is any reason why the mat says "you may discard all other copies of it from here". Maybe there's a card that gains you a card to your Exile mat? Or, probably more likely, a Watchtower variant that says "when you gain a card, you may Exile it". In that case you could discard all existing copies from the mat, but not the new one.

And the answer was Gatekeeper! It triggers at the same time as Watchtower, just as I thought, but of course it's an Attack rather than a voluntary effect.

mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2020, 02:36:37 am »
+1

I wonder if there is any reason why the mat says "you may discard all other copies of it from here". Maybe there's a card that gains you a card to your Exile mat? Or, probably more likely, a Watchtower variant that says "when you gain a card, you may Exile it". In that case you could discard all existing copies from the mat, but not the new one.

And the answer was Gatekeeper! It triggers at the same time as Watchtower, just as I thought, but of course it's an Attack rather than a voluntary effect.

How would Gatekeeper be affected by that?  Gatekeeper only Exiles a card if there's no copies on the Exile mat, if there is one or more copies, it has no effect, and you can discard as usual
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Ingix

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Re: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile
« Reply #80 on: March 19, 2020, 05:14:06 am »
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How would Gatekeeper be affected by that?  Gatekeeper only Exiles a card if there's no copies on the Exile mat, if there is one or more copies, it has no effect, and you can discard as usual

The ability of the Exile mat always triggers when you gain a card. Then, on resolution, it checks if you have other copies of that card in Exile and discards them. One example where this is relevant is that you gain a Gold (none yet on the Exile mat) and react with Sheepdog, but play it using Way of the Camel (which Exiles a Gold from the Supply). So when the Exile mat ability resolves, there is now actually a Gold to discard!

Taking this into account, a mat ability that doesn't say "other" wouldn't make Gatekeeper work as intended. The attacked player that is gaining an Action or Treasure card would choose to resolve the Gatekeeper ability first (exiling the gained card), then the Exile mat ability second, which (without "other") would see no problem to the discard the just Exiled card.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 05:15:15 am by Ingix »
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 3: Exile
« Reply #81 on: March 19, 2020, 11:22:23 am »
+1

To put it another way: The thing to realize is that both Gatekeeper and the Exile mat have when-gain abilities, so they trigger at the same time. You can then choose which to resolve first: Exile the card for Gatekeeper, or discard copies of it from the Exile Mat. If you first Exile the card and then discard Exiled copies of it, you would discard that very card unless it said "other".

Note that there are several other cards with when-gain abilites, which you could choose to resolve before Gatekeeper: Cargo Ship, Changeling, Innovation, Royal Seal, Tracker, Travelling Fair, Villa, Watchtower and Inn. All of these would work as hard counters to Gatekeeper. (See the rules document in my sig, p. 31, for more on this stuff.)
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