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Author Topic: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards  (Read 48957 times)

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AJD

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2020, 03:54:22 pm »
+7

Whenever you're instructed to gain a card, the instruction means "gain from the supply" unless otherwise specified, or unless it tells you to gain a specific card that's never in the supply.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2020, 04:24:22 pm »
+3

So kiln does not interact with wish...is that because it is not in the supply or (the lose track rule)?

it's because wishes are not in the supply

I am trying to understand why Wish won't work. Kiln says you gain a copy of the next card that you play that turn. It doesn't say anything about that card having to be from the supply or having to remain in the play area. So if you play Wish, even though it leaves the play area to go back to its pile, doesn't it still count as having been played after Kiln, and therefore you would be able to gain a new Wish?

Any time a card tells you to gain a card, it automatically means from the supply, unless it is telling you to gain it from a specific place (like "from the Wish pile", or if it is telling you to gain a specifically named card (as of the recent errata, simply "Gain a Wish" would work because it names "Wish" specifically". But for any other instruction to gain a card, the card you gain must be in the supply.
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2020, 04:43:25 pm »
+6

So kiln does not interact with wish...is that because it is not in the supply or (the lose track rule)?

it's because wishes are not in the supply

I am trying to understand why Wish won't work. Kiln says you gain a copy of the next card that you play that turn. It doesn't say anything about that card having to be from the supply or having to remain in the play area. So if you play Wish, even though it leaves the play area to go back to its pile, doesn't it still count as having been played after Kiln, and therefore you would be able to gain a new Wish?

Any time a card tells you to gain a card, it automatically means from the supply, unless it is telling you to gain it from a specific place (like "from the Wish pile", or if it is telling you to gain a specifically named card (as of the recent errata, simply "Gain a Wish" would work because it names "Wish" specifically". But for any other instruction to gain a card, the card you gain must be in the supply.
It's actually slightly trickier; "gain a Duchy" on Count won't gain a Duchy you left in the box because you only had 2 players. But yes. By default you only gain from the Supply, for Workshop etc.; cards that specifically gain non-supply cards can gain them, even by just saying "gain a Wish."
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2020, 05:30:02 pm »
+4

So kiln does not interact with wish...is that because it is not in the supply or (the lose track rule)?

it's because wishes are not in the supply

I am trying to understand why Wish won't work. Kiln says you gain a copy of the next card that you play that turn. It doesn't say anything about that card having to be from the supply or having to remain in the play area. So if you play Wish, even though it leaves the play area to go back to its pile, doesn't it still count as having been played after Kiln, and therefore you would be able to gain a new Wish?

Any time a card tells you to gain a card, it automatically means from the supply, unless it is telling you to gain it from a specific place (like "from the Wish pile", or if it is telling you to gain a specifically named card (as of the recent errata, simply "Gain a Wish" would work because it names "Wish" specifically". But for any other instruction to gain a card, the card you gain must be in the supply.
It's actually slightly trickier; "gain a Duchy" on Count won't gain a Duchy you left in the box because you only had 2 players. But yes. By default you only gain from the Supply, for Workshop etc.; cards that specifically gain non-supply cards can gain them, even by just saying "gain a Wish."

"Gain a card from the box" should appear on a card somewhere
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2020, 05:43:15 pm »
+3

So kiln does not interact with wish...is that because it is not in the supply or (the lose track rule)?

it's because wishes are not in the supply

I am trying to understand why Wish won't work. Kiln says you gain a copy of the next card that you play that turn. It doesn't say anything about that card having to be from the supply or having to remain in the play area. So if you play Wish, even though it leaves the play area to go back to its pile, doesn't it still count as having been played after Kiln, and therefore you would be able to gain a new Wish?

Any time a card tells you to gain a card, it automatically means from the supply, unless it is telling you to gain it from a specific place (like "from the Wish pile", or if it is telling you to gain a specifically named card (as of the recent errata, simply "Gain a Wish" would work because it names "Wish" specifically". But for any other instruction to gain a card, the card you gain must be in the supply.
It's actually slightly trickier; "gain a Duchy" on Count won't gain a Duchy you left in the box because you only had 2 players. But yes. By default you only gain from the Supply, for Workshop etc.; cards that specifically gain non-supply cards can gain them, even by just saying "gain a Wish."

"Gain a card from the box" should appear on a card somewhere

I know this isn't exactly what you mean, but Black Market is kind of close to that - you place random cards from all your boxes into a pile, which you can then gain cards from during the game.
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dpm

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2020, 06:03:41 pm »
+4

d plays a Throne Room.
  d plays a Kiln.
    d gets +$2.
  d plays a Kiln again.
    d gains a Kiln.
       d reacts with a Sheepdog.
       d plays a Sheepdog.
       d draws a Sentry and a Kiln.
    d gets +$2.


 I wasn't prompted as to whether I want to gain a Sheepdog.  Should I have been?
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Willvon

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2020, 06:14:44 pm »
0

So kiln does not interact with wish...is that because it is not in the supply or (the lose track rule)?

it's because wishes are not in the supply

I am trying to understand why Wish won't work. Kiln says you gain a copy of the next card that you play that turn. It doesn't say anything about that card having to be from the supply or having to remain in the play area. So if you play Wish, even though it leaves the play area to go back to its pile, doesn't it still count as having been played after Kiln, and therefore you would be able to gain a new Wish?

Any time a card tells you to gain a card, it automatically means from the supply, unless it is telling you to gain it from a specific place (like "from the Wish pile", or if it is telling you to gain a specifically named card (as of the recent errata, simply "Gain a Wish" would work because it names "Wish" specifically". But for any other instruction to gain a card, the card you gain must be in the supply.
It's actually slightly trickier; "gain a Duchy" on Count won't gain a Duchy you left in the box because you only had 2 players. But yes. By default you only gain from the Supply, for Workshop etc.; cards that specifically gain non-supply cards can gain them, even by just saying "gain a Wish."

Thank you for all of the responses.  I appreciate the clarification about gaining. 
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markus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2020, 06:15:59 pm »
+2

I wasn't prompted as to whether I want to gain a Sheepdog.  Should I have been?
That's a bug indeed - I have reported it.

Edit: of course that's the intended behavior because you haven't executed the instructions of the second Kiln play yet.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 01:36:46 am by markus »
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2020, 06:29:06 pm »
+10

d plays a Throne Room.
  d plays a Kiln.
    d gets +$2.
  d plays a Kiln again.
    d gains a Kiln.
       d reacts with a Sheepdog.
       d plays a Sheepdog.
       d draws a Sentry and a Kiln.
    d gets +$2.


 I wasn't prompted as to whether I want to gain a Sheepdog.  Should I have been?
The second play of Kiln hasn't done anything yet - it hasn't given you +$2, and hasn't set in motion "the next time you play a card..." Gaining Kiln was "first" and that's before any of the text. So, you should not have been asked if you wanted a Sheepdog.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2020, 08:35:40 pm »
+2

d plays a Throne Room.
  d plays a Kiln.
    d gets +$2.
  d plays a Kiln again.
    d gains a Kiln.
       d reacts with a Sheepdog.
       d plays a Sheepdog.
       d draws a Sentry and a Kiln.
    d gets +$2.


 I wasn't prompted as to whether I want to gain a Sheepdog.  Should I have been?
The second play of Kiln hasn't done anything yet - it hasn't given you +$2, and hasn't set in motion "the next time you play a card..." Gaining Kiln was "first" and that's before any of the text. So, you should not have been asked if you wanted a Sheepdog.


Yeah this is just like the Priest Sewers thing, right?
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2020, 08:55:20 pm »
+1

Yeah this is just like the Priest Sewers thing, right?
I hope not.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2020, 08:57:23 pm »
0

So, I'm trying out Snowy Village on Dominion Online, in a kingdom that uses villagers, and when I play it, it asks me if I want to "use Villagers while you can".  So, apparently you get the option of using villagers immediately after playing it.  I'm guessing that will be in the FAQ for the card?
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2020, 09:05:54 pm »
0

Yeah this is just like the Priest Sewers thing, right?
I hope not.

I think it was more of a rules comparison than a power comparison.
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crj

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2020, 09:39:09 pm »
0

"use Villagers while you can"
I would have expected that one could use Villagers after playing Snowy Village. To no effect.
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2020, 09:55:31 pm »
0

"use Villagers while you can"
I would have expected that one could use Villagers after playing Snowy Village. To no effect.
That's what I would've expected too, but it allowed me to convert villagers into actions right away

m plays a Snowy Village.
m draws a Copper.
m gets +4 Actions.
m gets +1 Buy.
m gets +3 Actions.

That +3 Actions there was from villagers, so after that I had 7 Actions (I didn't need that many, I was just experimenting to see how it would work).  I can't imagine that's a glitch, since the option to use villagers would've had to be programmed in, so apparently you get to redeem villagers before the "ignore any more +Actions" takes effect
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 09:57:07 pm by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2020, 10:00:03 pm »
+1

Can't wait to play the Kiln/Rats combo!  Fill your deck up with rats even faster!
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2020, 10:20:31 pm »
+3

Just realized Villa would interact weirdly with Snowy Village.  If you bought it after having used up all your actions, it would still go into your hand, and you'd still return to your Action phase, but you'd enter that phase with 0 actions!
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pubby

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2020, 10:22:08 pm »
+2

Just realized Villa would interact weirdly with Snowy Village.  If you bought it after having used up all your actions, it would still go into your hand, and you'd still return to your Action phase, but you'd enter that phase with 0 actions!
So then you trash it to buy an animal fair.
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TheMathProf

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2020, 11:21:54 pm »
0

In a bot game, I tried to Throne a Barge.  I used the first to gain 3 cards and a Buy on this turn, and the second to gain 3 Cards and a Buy on the next turn.  Got the 3 cards and a Buy on the current turn, but not on the next turn.  Working as intended?  If so, how do you figure?
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2020, 11:37:21 pm »
0

In a bot game, I tried to Throne a Barge.  I used the first to gain 3 cards and a Buy on this turn, and the second to gain 3 Cards and a Buy on the next turn.  Got the 3 cards and a Buy on the current turn, but not on the next turn.  Working as intended?  If so, how do you figure?

Definitely sounds like a bug.  You should be able to make a different choice with each play, so a Throned Barge definitely should let you get +3 Cards +1 Buy on both your current turn and your next turn (or +6 Cards +2 Buys on the current turn or +6 Cards +2 Buys on the next turn for that matter, depending on your choices).  Did the server discard your Barge on the turn you played it on?
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TheMathProf

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2020, 11:42:56 pm »
0

In a bot game, I tried to Throne a Barge.  I used the first to gain 3 cards and a Buy on this turn, and the second to gain 3 Cards and a Buy on the next turn.  Got the 3 cards and a Buy on the current turn, but not on the next turn.  Working as intended?  If so, how do you figure?

Definitely sounds like a bug.  You should be able to make a different choice with each play, so a Throned Barge definitely should let you get +3 Cards +1 Buy on both your current turn and your next turn (or +6 Cards +2 Buys on the current turn or +6 Cards +2 Buys on the next turn for that matter, depending on your choices).  Did the server discard your Barge on the turn you played it on?

To be honest, I forgot to look.  I'll peek next time I try it.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2020, 12:07:37 am »
+3

Ways to play more than four actions after Snowy Village: Throne Room (and most variants), Conclave, Imp, Herald, Golem, Scepter, Innovation, gain a card with Sheepdog in hand...

PS: I also love the expansion symbol.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 12:09:30 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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markus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2020, 12:46:02 am »
0

In a bot game, I tried to Throne a Barge.  I used the first to gain 3 cards and a Buy on this turn, and the second to gain 3 Cards and a Buy on the next turn.  Got the 3 cards and a Buy on the current turn, but not on the next turn.  Working as intended?  If so, how do you figure?
This is something that works correctly in the client. (Throne Room stays out with Barge and you draw 3 cards at the start of next turn). The only thing kind of missing is the explanation (Barge) in the log at the start of your next turn. So you might have missed in the log that you drew 3 cards because of Barge.

PS: I should have trusted the client on the Throne Room+Kiln thing as well, or at least give it a bit more of a thought late at night  :-[
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2020, 02:19:46 am »
+6

So, I'm trying out Snowy Village on Dominion Online, in a kingdom that uses villagers, and when I play it, it asks me if I want to "use Villagers while you can".  So, apparently you get the option of using villagers immediately after playing it.  I'm guessing that will be in the FAQ for the card?
You can convert Villagers at any point in your Action phase, which includes between drawing the card for Snowy Village and then having +Actions turned off. This specific question isn't in the FAQ.
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2020, 02:20:14 am »
+1

Yeah this is just like the Priest Sewers thing, right?
I hope not.

I think it was more of a rules comparison than a power comparison.
I meant it as a "how many people ask about this during previews week" comparison.
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