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Author Topic: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards  (Read 8235 times)

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Donald X.

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Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« on: March 02, 2020, 02:59:44 am »
+35

So, it's come to this. Previews. I suppose I have myself to blame.

Menagerie - hey isn't that the name of a card? - has 400 cards, like Adventures. That includes 30 Kingdom cards. There are two major themes: Exile and Horses. There are also two kinds of landscapes: Ways and Events, with 20 of each. I'll do the math for you: 30 kingdom cards is 300 cards, plus 30 randomizers is 330, plus 40 landscapes is 370, and I'll just tell you now that there are 30 Horses. That means no Victory cards, and no other surprise extra piles.

Day 2 of previews will cover Horses, and day 3 Exile; day 4 will have landscapes, and day 5 will have... some more cards. Here on day 1 we have 5 miscellaneous cards, to get you started with a bunch, because as before the cards are immediately try-out-able at dominion.games.



Snowy Village gives you a bunch of actions and a buy, but closes the door on even more actions that turn. Some of you may remember this from the holiday joke cards that were on dominionstrategy a few years ago. I wouldn't be expecting those other cards, but this one was worth doing.

Sheepdog gives Dominion another blue dog. You can play it anytime you gain a card. It may not even be your turn. Playing it means you put it into play and get your +2 Cards; it will be discarded in that turn's Clean-up, even if it's not yours. Using the Reaction part doesn't use up an Action; it just leaps into play and draws you cards. If it draws you another Sheepdog, you can use that one right away too; you can keep playing Sheepdogs until you run out of them.

Animal Fair gives you a weird way to pay for it. The card costs $7; the alternate payment just applies when you're buying one. At the point at which you'd pay your $7, you can trash an Action from your hand instead (and can do this when you don't have $7). And then what do you get, you get +$4 and some number of Buys.

Kiln is another in the long line of Explorers. It most easily gains Treasures, but if you can play an Action after it, you can gain a copy of that, and it can even gain Night cards.

And finally Barge is a Duration card with an effect you can have now or later. Handy if you don't want to draw dead cards, or have drawn your deck already. If you take it now, it's just discarded that turn. All the sets seem to squeeze in a few Duration cards these days, and this set has four of them.

Again, those of you on dominion.games, you can probably try the cards right about now.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2020, 03:20:33 am »
+1

Does Animal Fair still cost a Buy if you trash an Action card?
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2020, 03:28:24 am »
+2

Does Animal Fair still cost a Buy if you trash an Action card?
Yes.
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Chappy7

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2020, 03:47:40 am »
+1

I'm impressed by the simplicity and elegance of these cards! They are simple to understand and read for the most part, yet they create very interesting decisions within the game.  I love them!
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2020, 03:59:28 am »
0

So, it's come to this. Previews. I suppose I have myself to blame.

Menagerie - hey isn't that the name of a card? - has 400 cards, like Adventures. That includes 30 Kingdom cards. There are two major themes: Exile and Horses. There are also two kinds of landscapes: Ways and Events, with 20 of each. I'll do the math for you: 30 kingdom cards is 300 cards, plus 30 randomizers is 330, plus 40 landscapes is 370, and I'll just tell you now that there are 30 Horses. That means no Victory cards, and no other surprise extra piles.

Hunh, so Horses are a kind of card, but not a kingdom card?  So, a non-supply card?  30 Horses ... three different types of Horses with ten cards each?
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2020, 04:09:48 am »
0

I like the +1 buy per empty supply pile on Animal Fair.  Very creative idea!

Sheepdog's reaction is interesting.  I suppose the most practical use of its reaction would be in response to a junking/cursing attack.  It would be pretty useless to use it when you buy a card, unless perhaps Villa and/or night cards are in the kingdom.  As a reaction to a gainer card it might be useful too, basically +2 cards without spending an action

I also really like Snowy Village .... would that also trump Champion from Adventures?  And what about Villagers from Renaissance?  Are they nullified also?
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faust

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2020, 04:11:49 am »
+2

I feel like Animal Fair/Necropolis is a bit too powerful? Then again I guess Necro/Advance didn't break the game either.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2020, 04:12:37 am »
0

So, it's come to this. Previews. I suppose I have myself to blame.

Menagerie - hey isn't that the name of a card? - has 400 cards, like Adventures. That includes 30 Kingdom cards. There are two major themes: Exile and Horses. There are also two kinds of landscapes: Ways and Events, with 20 of each. I'll do the math for you: 30 kingdom cards is 300 cards, plus 30 randomizers is 330, plus 40 landscapes is 370, and I'll just tell you now that there are 30 Horses. That means no Victory cards, and no other surprise extra piles.

Hunh, so Horses are a kind of card, but not a kingdom card?  So, a non-supply card?  30 Horses ... three different types of Horses with ten cards each?

It's kinda funny that we were all assuming it was a token, like coffers or villagers.  Although, I guess there could still be some kind of +card token that the Horses give you, but that seems a bit overly complicated if so ...
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2020, 04:15:15 am »
+6

I also really like Snowy Village .... would that also trump Champion from Adventures?  And what about Villagers from Renaissance?  Are they nullified also?
It does stop both Champion's ability and further Villager-conversion that turn.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2020, 04:16:25 am »
0

I feel like Animal Fair/Necropolis is a bit too powerful? Then again I guess Necro/Advance didn't break the game either.

There's only a single Necropolis, though, so that would limit the effect.  Presumably in games with both shelters and Animal Fair, most people would trash their Necropolis early on for an Animal Fair, so you'd end up with everyone having at least one Animal Fair very early in the game
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2020, 04:16:46 am »
+1

I feel like Animal Fair/Necropolis is a bit too powerful? Then again I guess Necro/Advance didn't break the game either.

It will sometimes feel pretty bad to open Animal Fair/$3-4 when your opponent opens Animal Fair/$4-5.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2020, 04:20:38 am »
+5

I like the icon used for this set :-)
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2020, 04:27:02 am »
0

Snowy Village does seem kind of overpowered for its price point.  But then again, the "ignore any further +Actions" does limit its usefulness, since it basically limits what you can play after it, and the +Actions can't stack at all, so playing two or more Snowy Villages in a turn is of very limited use
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2020, 07:01:09 am »
0

Things that are now possible but weren't before:

playing cards during other player's turns
being out of actions after having played champion

Snowy village might never become bad for you if you draw your entire deck and have some terminal payoff. As long as you have just one of them, you can arrange to play it as the last non-terminal. But buying it super early also won't be that great; it'll just be a worker's village.

Kiln is interesting. Mostly, it feels like buying it early is a trap. It requires at least +2 actions and having it plus another action card in hand to be good. Ideally, you might even want +3 actions to copy a non-terminal and not have it be the end of your turn. So you can't buy it early like haggler; you need to have something going on before that. In a strong deck it might be better than haggler because you get to play the new card the same turn.

Barge is super elegant.

Sheepdog is like horse traders vs junking attacks, but scaleable. Your opponent plays witch, you get a curse, you play sheepdog, you draw more sheepdogs, you play them, too. Then curses run out and you have a deck full of moats and lose the game.
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faust

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2020, 07:24:33 am »
+11

Things that are now possible but weren't before:

playing cards during other player's turns
Caravan Guard already exists.
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MrFrog

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2020, 07:44:27 am »
+2

How about discarding cards during another player's Clean up phase?
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trivialknot

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2020, 07:46:31 am »
+1

Wow, 40 landscapes?  I'm excited for that.  I'm also super pleased in anticipation of the inevitable release of Socks.

Some of you may remember this from the holiday joke cards that were on dominionstrategy a few years ago. I wouldn't be expecting those other cards
Oh...

Well, I love Snowy Village.  It reminds me of Tragic Hero, another favorite card.
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tyr10n

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2020, 08:10:35 am »
+1

If you gain a Sheepdog to your hand, can you play it right away, using the reaction?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 08:12:12 am by tyr10n »
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2020, 08:23:03 am »
0

How about discarding cards during another player's Clean up phase?
At one time there was a scenario in which Outpost could be discarded in another player's clean-up phase, but I think that went away with the second edition.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2020, 08:58:54 am »
+1

If you gain a Sheepdog to your hand, can you play it right away, using the reaction?

Yes, definitely.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2020, 09:17:00 am »
0

I'm hoping that there is a Sheep card that lets you gain a card now.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2020, 09:24:15 am »
0

Not quite the same as previous teasers, but so far we've seen two of the quotes already ("either now or" and "instead of paying").

It's interesting to see how Snowy Village has changed, and also how similar the art is.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2020, 09:25:13 am »
+1

I remember the point in time when you said, Dark Ages would be the last full expansion. Afterwards Guilds would be released as a small bonus but that was supposed to be it. Now, almost eight years later, the expansions keep coming and they are of constantly high quality. It's great you're continuing!

Now let's look at the cards; they look cute and interesting so far, and not too strong (I guess we'll see the new Recruiters and Scepters later).

Snowy Village has a huge drawback that makes it not very suitable for long control-oriented games (2 players, engines) but that's less of a problem in games with 3 to 4 players because you don't want more than 3 or 4 copies of Snowy Village in your deck anyway (arguably you need only 1 but you'd get some more for consistency). I'll buy most other villages over Snowy Village, even regular Village seems better unless there is no other source of +buy.

Sheepdog is very elegant in its design but offers a lot of cute tricks and synergies. A lot of them probably aren't worth spending your $ on. There's an opportunity cost associated with buying multiple copies of a card that can easily turn into a brick, unless you can combine it consistently.

Animal Fair is the closest to busted among the five cards revealed so far. Gaining a source of +$4 early is so strong that I'd consider many cheap action cards as "ramps" into gaining an Animal Fair: Chapel, Stonemason, Lackeys, Pawn and other cheap cantrips seem great as alternative prices to pay. Necropolis was already mentioned. Looters are a bit weaker with Animal Fair around but you still want to go for Marauder or Cultist usually. Finally, you may want to consider gaining a couple of free Duchesses to trash them later for Animal Fairs.

Kiln looks strong in money based strategies as it's easy to duplicate your Golds while also producing money (unlike Mint). If you can incorporate Kiln in a gain-and-play style engine, your deck will quickly burst with value. Good card with a lot of build-around potential.

Barge is simple and elegant but only mediocre when compared to other $5-cost cards. Obviously this cost-slot is large and full of powerhouses and they can't all be the strongest... you get the gist. Looking at the latest Qvist ranking, I'd put this right next to Embassy (rank 90), so in the lowest third of the list. I might be underestimating it but I think Barge's flexibility is usually only relevant when you are over-building your deck, and you should have a compelling reason to do so in the first place. In most other cases it's a Smithy with +buy and in general, you want such a card. But sources of +3 cards and +1 buy are both pretty abundant nowadays and often you'll find a better deal in a kingdom.
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2020, 09:31:23 am »
0

Things that are now possible but weren't before:

playing cards during other player's turns
Caravan Guard already exists.
*playing cards that don't immediately disappear from play
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Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2020, 09:33:02 am »
+2

So, it's come to this. Previews. I suppose I have myself to blame.

Menagerie - hey isn't that the name of a card? - has 400 cards, like Adventures. That includes 30 Kingdom cards. There are two major themes: Exile and Horses. There are also two kinds of landscapes: Ways and Events, with 20 of each. I'll do the math for you: 30 kingdom cards is 300 cards, plus 30 randomizers is 330, plus 40 landscapes is 370, and I'll just tell you now that there are 30 Horses. That means no Victory cards, and no other surprise extra piles.

Hunh, so Horses are a kind of card, but not a kingdom card?  So, a non-supply card?  30 Horses ... three different types of Horses with ten cards each?

It's kinda funny that we were all assuming it was a token, like coffers or villagers.  Although, I guess there could still be some kind of +card token that the Horses give you, but that seems a bit overly complicated if so ...

We weren't all assuming that:)
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