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[Swowl]

Welcome to RMM54: Hunger Games Mafia

Setup:
This game is built for 16 players and will use a Semi-Open RMM Pick-Your-Poison Set Up. The game will consist of a few Pre-Game Phases, the important one's being the Ranking Phase followed by the Drafting Phase.
For the time being we are opening the sign ups and providing the important set up information. There will be more information publicly posted prior to game start... but we just want to get the ball rolling.

Mods:
Swan and Galz

Player List:
1. LaLight
2. Mail-Mi - Died Night 1; Mafia, 1 Shot Poisoner
3. Jimmmm
4. Cayvie - Died Night 2; Town Master of Disguise
5. WCD
6. MiX - Lynched Day 3; Career Tribute, 1 Shot Inventor
7. Lekkit
8. Shraeye - Died Night 2; Town 2 Shot RD
9. ADK
10. Raptor - Lynched Day 1; Mafia 3 Shot Reloader
11. E! - Died Night 4; Town 1 Shot Anytime Vig
12. EFHW - Day Vig Day 4; Mafia 1 Shot Lightning Rod
13. Glooble - Died Night 3; Town JOAT
14. Scolapasta - Lynched Day 2; Town 2 Shot RB
15. faust - Died Night 3; Town Hider
16. Ashersky - Lynched Day 4; Town Tracker

Tagged: Joth, Eevee, Rae, Awaclus, Skip

Sub list:

Navigation:
Day 1 Start - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20103.msg827119#msg827119
Day 2 Start - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20103.msg829265#msg829265
Day 3 Start - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20103.msg830773#msg830773
Day 4 Start - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20103.msg831325#msg831325
Day 5 Start - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20103.msg832895#msg832895



The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.


The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay. The exception is anything the MOD posts in the openly public Game Thread.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved based on the order they were received. 
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post at least once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.



The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable if they are already in common use. Your vote may not be counted if it cannot be picked up by an automated vote counter.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. While I will do my best to count all votes the first time through, the best way to ensure your vote is not missed is by giving it a separate line of text in the post.
   Example Post:
      Jimmy is skummy.
      Vote: Jimmy
      Others should vote Jimmy.



The Rest:
1. The Brown text color is reserved for the MOD [and whatever color Galz wants add in here]. Players may not use it, or anything that looks similar. To avoid confusion, please remove mod color if quoting the mod's posts.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM or in your Role QT. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. A prod may be requested in the game thread by any player, after a player has gone 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or Mod Killed after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Please use your best judgment when phrasing from your personal QT. If you are unsure whether it is allowed, please ask the MOD in your QT. 
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or night kill, town wins.



Deadlines:
1. Days will last 7 IRL days.
2. Nights will last 2 IRL days… or as close to that as possible
3. Pre-Game Phases will last 48 Hours. If wrapped up before that, we could move the timeline up as needed though.

[Swowl]

Flavor:
1. Flavor will be based on the Hunger Games series. It spans over all three of the books.
2. The game has been set up to openly remove flavor as a factor in game solving, decisions, etc. Though, if you know the story, you'll get some kicks out of the flavor


Additional Information:
1. Everyone in this game will receive a PR via the Drafting Process.
2. It will not be disclosed how many faction, or how many players within any faction, exist.


Game Phases:
Phase 1 - Ranking Phase
1. Districts - All players will be randomly assigned one partner. Each pairing will have a shared, private, QT. These 8 shared QT's will be assigned as a District. The District information, and which players are in which District, will be made public at the start of Day 1.
2. Role Information - At this point in the game, all players will only know their alignment. They will not have any information what-so-ever outside of which faction to which they belong.
3. Ranking - Players will be allowed to talk in their District WT for 48 hours. By the end of this 48-hour window, each player will submit a list in their Private QTs ranking all players in the game from Towniest to Skummiest (most town = #1, and most skummy = #16).

***UP UNTIL THIS POINT, THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS WHATSOEVER. AT THE END OF PHASE 1, FOR THE REST OF THE GAME, NO ONE MAY STATE OR HINT IN ANY WAY WHAT THE ORDER WAS THAT THEY SUBMITTED FOR RANKINGS. OR REALLY, TALK ABOUT IT AT ALL. You can talk about the draft, and any and/or all other aspects of the game. If there is any confusion, please consult a MOD in your Private QT prior to posting.***

Phase 2 - Drafting Phase
1. Each player will be privately informed where they fall in the Draft Order (1-16).
2. All District Threads will re-open, along with any other threads that may exist in the game that were not previously open during the Ranking Phase.
3. Players will have 48 hours to talk in their threads and submit a bid for the draft.



When the Drafting Phase is completed and all players have confirmed, the game will begin. That will be roughly 5-6 IRL days of Pre-Game.

[Swowl]

                                                                     RANKING ORDER RULES AND PROCEDURES



1. Each player will rank all players in the game from #1-#16, from Towniest to Skummiest (So, #1 is the most towny, and #16 is the most skummy).
2. You need to include yourself in this list.
3. This is a point based ranking system.

4. Scoring - This is be a point based system. Once all lists are submitted we will tally up the points that players have. You dish out points equal to the rank at which you put the player. So, the player you put as #1 will get 1 point from you, the player you put as #2 will get 2 points from you... and so on and so forth.
The ranking order will be determined following "Golf Rules" (i.e. the lowest score wins). So, after we have added everything up, the player with the least amount of points will get the first pick in the draft, and the player with the most point will pick last.

5. Ties - In the case of a Tie, the player with the most votes for the #1 rank spot will get the more favorable position. If both players are tied in number of #1 spot votes, or if neither of them have a #1 spot vote, then we will move to #2 spot votes... and so on and so forth until we have a decision. If somehow, we move all the way down the list with no decision and there is still a tie... there will be a FaceTime beer chugging competition to decide the winner. (or it will be randomized)

6. Example -
Player A is given the following ranks from all players in the game [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16]. Added up, that is 136 points.
Player B is given the following ranks from all players in the game [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,10,10,11,11,12,12]. Added up, that is 121 points.
----In this situation, Player B would receive the more favorable position for the Draft----
Tie Example....
Player A is given 136 points.
Player B is given 121 points.
Player C is given 121 points.
--- Mods then check the #1 spot vote counts.
Player B had 4 votes for the #1 spot
Player C had 2 votes for the #1 spot
---Final Order Would Be:
Player B
Player C
Player A



Hope that helps clarify everything. Check back tomorrow night for clarification on the Drafting process.

May the odds be ever in your favor.

[Swowl]

NOTE - AT THIS POINT, THERE IS A POSTING RESTRICTION. YOU MAY NO LONGER, IN ANY THREAD, SPEAK AT ALL OF ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO THE ORDER YOU SUBMITTED FOR RANKING PLAYERS. If you are unsure, err on the side of caution. Do not talk about it before consulting the mods is your private QT. Violations of this rule will be dealt with by means of "Capitol" punishment.

Drafting Phase

Here are the rules of the Draft:

Primary Drafting Phase:
1. Players are grouped into sets of 2, numerically pulled from the Ranking order, from 1-16. So, 1/2 are a pair, 3/4 are a pair, and so on to 15/16 being a pair.
2. Regardless of where you fall in the Ranking Order, if you and your drafting pair (#1 and #2 for example) both bid for the same item, neither of you will receive that item.
3. In the instance where any pair of players bid on the same item, it can still be obtained by someone lower in the Ranking order, as long as that players pair does not also bid for it. However, if multiple pairs of players all bid for the same item, none of those players will receive it. Said item, will always be obtainable by someone that bids for it without their pair also bidding for it. (Example - if 1 and 2 bid for Item A, along with 3 and 4, and also number 11 bids for it. 1, 2, 3 and 4 will get nothing at this point, and instead the item would go to #11).

After all items have been awarded, they will be removed from the list of available items. All players without any items at this point will be given a chance to draft again.

Secondary Drafting Phase:
1. An updated list will be provided which will be the original list of items, with the taken items removed from it.
2. Players without an item will be given another chance to draft their item.
3. This Drafting cycle will consist of all players submitting a list of all of the items ranked from "most desired" to "least desired".
4. Each player's original order in the Ranking Order will be retained for this cycle.
5. There are no pairing rules, it will just be straight up. So the player with the highest placement in the draft will get their top pick no matter what. If player 1 and player 2 in the draft both pick the same item as their top pick, that item will go to player 1, and instead player 2 will get whatever item they ranked second on their list. And so on and so forth.

At the end of the secondary phase (or possibly the primary phase if the secondary is not needed), everyone will receive a PM with the relevant information regarding the item you got from the draft.
This information will not be confirmed by the MODs in the Game Thread.

After the Drafting Phase(s) are complete, there will be a short 12-24 hour break, to put the finishing touches of the Game Arena... and then the Games will commence.

May the odds be ever in your favor.

*Please remember this thread is still locked. Please post any questions in your personal QTs, but not here.*

[Swowl]

Camera
Bandages
Utility Bag
Nightlock
Jewelry
Trident
Jabberjay
Spotlight
Fox Ears
Wig
Rose
Bow and Arrow
Camouflage
Hair Bow
Mockingjay Pin
Microphone
Engineering Kit
Flask
Binoculars
Make Up Kit

[Galzria]

/in as MOD with color reserved.

[LaLight]

/in!

[mail-mi]

Why not. /in

[Jimmmmm]

/in

[cayvie]

cmon folks get with it

/volunteer as tribute

(/in)

[faust]

/tag

I'm not in love with posting restrictions, so I might sit this one out.

[WestCoastDidds]

/in!

[MiX]

I almost forgot to /in this.

[Lekkit]

/in

[shraeye]

\in, and I reserve this color

[WestCoastDidds]

\in, and I reserve this color

Weirdo

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[Xxraptorslayer96]

/in

[LaLight]

/in

oh hey!

[2.71828.....]

/in

[ashersky]

Tag

[ashersky]

/tag

I'm not in love with posting restrictions, so I might sit this one out.

I think the mods need to ban talk about that portion of the setup pre-game as well if the goal is to keep the draft order itself unknown.

[Lekkit]

/in

oh hey!

Hey, you!

[MiX]

Ashersky has a point.

***UP UNTIL THIS POINT, THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS WHATSOEVER. AT THE END OF PHASE 1, FOR THE REST OF THE GAME, NO ONE MAY STATE OR HINT IN ANY WAY WHAT THE ORDER WAS THAT THEY SUBMITTED FOR RANKINGS. Players can talk about what draft # they got, they can claim what they got from the draft, they can claim anything at all... just not anything whatsoever to do with the Ranking Order they submitted. This includes any skum thread and the District Threads. We will of course elaborate on the do's and don'ts more prior to game start for clarity.***

Can you discuss the ranking to your neighbor in phase 1, and can you talk about the ranking of your neighbor after phase 1?

[Galzria]

Ashersky has a point.

***UP UNTIL THIS POINT, THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS WHATSOEVER. AT THE END OF PHASE 1, FOR THE REST OF THE GAME, NO ONE MAY STATE OR HINT IN ANY WAY WHAT THE ORDER WAS THAT THEY SUBMITTED FOR RANKINGS. Players can talk about what draft # they got, they can claim what they got from the draft, they can claim anything at all... just not anything whatsoever to do with the Ranking Order they submitted. This includes any skum thread and the District Threads. We will of course elaborate on the do's and don'ts more prior to game start for clarity.***

Can you discuss the ranking to your neighbor in phase 1, and can you talk about the ranking of your neighbor after phase 1?

You can say absolutely anything to your District thread partner in phase 1. This includes example orders that you intend to rank every player in the game. Once phase 1 ends, and you’ve privately submitted your official ranking order, all players will be forbidden from discussing what their submitted ranking order was - In the main thread or any existing QT’s.

[MiX]

Can you talk about your district neighbor's ranking order? Because it feels like you should just tell your partner about your ranking before submitting it (you can lie if you're scum, but you have no idea how lying helps you) and then everyone outs their neighbor's ranking when it's a good time to claim ranking order...and that feels against the spirit of the rules.

[Galzria]

Can you talk about your district neighbor's ranking order? Because it feels like you should just tell your partner about your ranking before submitting it (you can lie if you're scum, but you have no idea how lying helps you) and then everyone outs their neighbor's ranking when it's a good time to claim ranking order...and that feels against the spirit of the rules.

Sorry, no - all discussion on ranking order is disallowed. You will know only what you submitted and what your partner (if they share) says they plan on submitting, and that’s it. You will however be more than welcome to talk about the draft itself, draft order, item choices, etc and so on.

[faust]

Is it allowed to claim that your partner claimed their order to you?

[cayvie]

Is it allowed to claim that your partner claimed their order to you?

is it allowed to claim that your partner didn't claim their order to you?

yeah i can definitely see how this could be tough to police

[GlinkertsTricksy]

hi i love mafia and would like to play mafia

[GlinkertsTricksy]

/in

[WestCoastDidds]

hi i love mafia and would like to play mafia

Well, hello!  It's nice to have you. If you go make a post here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=24.0 then you wont have to keep doing the captcha thing.

Then go here to say that you'll play nicely with us http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0

Welcome!!

[ashersky]

And what's the punishment?  At some point, it may be worth it to break the rule if it helps win the game.

(I assume that the mods don't want the discussion to happen because it could break/solve the setup.  Solving the setup could win the game for town, and then one town member doing that and then being punished -- even by modkill -- becomes worth it and probably MVP-worthy.)

Posting restrictions are hard.

[faust]

And what's the punishment?  At some point, it may be worth it to break the rule if it helps win the game.

(I assume that the mods don't want the discussion to happen because it could break/solve the setup.  Solving the setup could win the game for town, and then one town member doing that and then being punished -- even by modkill -- becomes worth it and probably MVP-worthy.)

Posting restrictions are hard.

To be fair though, the setup is probably only solvable if everyone claims, I don't think a single player intentionally breaking the rule would be worth it.

Plus, you can always make the punishment harder if you really don't wan't the rules broken. Didn't you modkill two people in Gravity Falls for what was essentially a violation of a posting restriction?

[GlinkertsTricksy]

Wait, no,

/out

I won't be able to maintain the posting minimum. Have fun y'all!

[EFHW]

i/n

Half in because I only play one at a time and I /inned for ash's game too. Whichever one starts first.

[cayvie]

i/n

Half in because I only play one at a time and I /inned for ash's game too. Whichever one starts first.

My impression was that this one is first in the queue

[Galzria]

And what's the punishment?  At some point, it may be worth it to break the rule if it helps win the game.

(I assume that the mods don't want the discussion to happen because it could break/solve the setup.  Solving the setup could win the game for town, and then one town member doing that and then being punished -- even by modkill -- becomes worth it and probably MVP-worthy.)

Posting restrictions are hard.

To be fair though, the setup is probably only solvable if everyone claims, I don't think a single player intentionally breaking the rule would be worth it.

Plus, you can always make the punishment harder if you really don't wan't the rules broken. Didn't you modkill two people in Gravity Falls for what was essentially a violation of a posting restriction?

Our thoughts on this subject are as follows:

- Anybody intentionally breaking the stated rules, as they’re clearly understood, is violating the spirit of the Civility Pledge. MODs take a not insignificant amount of time to craft their games and INTENTIONALLY breaking their stated rules should be considered as a disrespect and insult to their effort. The purpose of the rules, as they’re stated, is clear. If there are any questions, Private messages to the MOD’s are perfectly acceptable.
- Ashersky is right. Any one, two, or even three players (possibly more) breaking the clearly stated rules would not break the game. It would be unfortunate, and a singular (per player) ModKill would suffice as punishment.
- The REASON this role exists is not actually to prevent Town from isolating scum, it’s to to prevent scum from identifying high roll PR’s without any real claiming. To this end, it significantly hurts scum more to break these rules than it does Town.

@ General questions regarding can you claim “if” your partner told you anything:

Yes, the rule is simply based on the specific discussion ordering itself. With that said, we wish to add an additional rule that I would’ve hoped didn’t need to be said:

THERE IS TO BE NO PREGAME PLANNING OF STRATEGIES BASED ON PUBLICLY AVAILABLE INFORMATION.

If there are any other questions, we highly encourage PM’s to MODs, and not public discussion.

[Swowl]

Gotta agree with Galz here all.
We didn’t just you know like toss it together last minute. We have reasons for the game choices we made.

What we hope to be kind of the 2 most fun elements of the game are unfortunately tied to the posting restriction. So it is not changing. All for healthy game building talk, but just in case anyone is thinking they actually have a chance of getting the rule removed - you do not

[popsofctown]

Here's what I think about the post restriction

Katniss x Peeta is the One True Pairing and nothing else matters

[ashersky]

And what's the punishment?  At some point, it may be worth it to break the rule if it helps win the game.

(I assume that the mods don't want the discussion to happen because it could break/solve the setup.  Solving the setup could win the game for town, and then one town member doing that and then being punished -- even by modkill -- becomes worth it and probably MVP-worthy.)

Posting restrictions are hard.

To be fair though, the setup is probably only solvable if everyone claims, I don't think a single player intentionally breaking the rule would be worth it.

Plus, you can always make the punishment harder if you really don't wan't the rules broken. Didn't you modkill two people in Gravity Falls for what was essentially a violation of a posting restriction?

I didn't mod Gravity Falls.

I modkilled an entire faction and ended the game in Falling Skies 1 for basically a posting restriction.  I learned my lesson.

(To be fair, it was a specific rule to that faction and was a QT thing.)

[ashersky]

Also, I mean, what Galz said.

Although...this brings back the Suarez handball argument I had with Voltaire so many years ago.

[ashersky]

i/n

Half in because I only play one at a time and I /inned for ash's game too. Whichever one starts first.

My impression was that this one is first in the queue

That is correct.  EFHW is full-in here and half-in there, I would say.

[faust]

I didn't mod Gravity Falls.

I modkilled an entire faction and ended the game in Falling Skies 1 for basically a posting restriction.  I learned my lesson.

(To be fair, it was a specific rule to that faction and was a QT thing.)

Yeah fine something something show with "Fall" in it that I didn't watch.

[Glooble]

/in

[2.71828.....]

So....3 more players?

[WestCoastDidds]

Joth?
Raerae?
Pubby?
Arishipshape?
Space?

Jimmmm....would Wings play with us here?

[Glooble]

Joth told me he was taking a break. But I can talk to him...

[arishipshape]

Arishipshape?

Sorry, I'm not participating in this mafia. Too crazy complicated for my tastes. Just bastard levels of mafia made me not able to compute like, anything.

[cayvie]

Arishipshape?

Sorry, I'm not participating in this mafia. Too crazy complicated for my tastes. Just bastard levels of mafia made me not able to compute like, anything.

aw ari

sending hugs

at least think about it, you seem fun

[shraeye]

Arishipshape?

Sorry, I'm not participating in this mafia. Too crazy complicated for my tastes. Just bastard levels of mafia made me not able to compute like, anything.

The trick is, usually nobody knows what's going on in RMM.  So just lean into the chaos

[scolapasta]

Ok, I've not done the online mafia thing, but am willing to try (having now played other games with some of you). I'm sure I'll have lots of questions!

/Volunteer for tribute

[cayvie]

Ok, I've not done the online mafia thing, but am willing to try (having now played other games with some of you). I'm sure I'll have lots of questions!

/Volunteer for tribute

awesome

check out the civility pledge if you haven't already, it's p cool http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0

[MiX]

Ok, I've not done the online mafia thing, but am willing to try (having now played other games with some of you). I'm sure I'll have lots of questions!

/Volunteer for tribute

One of us, one of us, one of us.

Good job Didds!

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok, I've not done the online mafia thing, but am willing to try (having now played other games with some of you). I'm sure I'll have lots of questions!

/Volunteer for tribute

One of us, one of us, one of us.

Good job Didds!

I told him we’d be kind! :

[scolapasta]

Ok, I've not done the online mafia thing, but am willing to try (having now played other games with some of you). I'm sure I'll have lots of questions!

/Volunteer for tribute

One of us, one of us, one of us.

Good job Didds!

I told him we’d be kind! :

What am I getting myself into?? 

[shraeye]

Wait, so I can't play anymore?

[WestCoastDidds]

Wait, so I can't play anymore?

You can be kind. (Insert video of you winking with your kid). Can you talk Raerae into playing??

[shraeye]

Wait, so I can't play anymore?

You can be kind. (Insert video of you winking with your kid). Can you talk Raerae into playing??

Maybe, maybe not.  Life is getting more hectic.

[WestCoastDidds]

Come on, people! 

[faust]

Oh well.

/in

I expect that I will ask lots more questions about what I'm allowed to post. Feel free to fill this spot with a less annoying player if you prefer.

[MiX]

Oh well.

/in

I expect that I will ask lots more questions about what I'm allowed to post. Feel free to fill this spot with a less annoying player if you prefer.

Wait. The entire point of this RMM isn't asking questions about the fine line of post restrictions?

You'll be fine, I'm sure your questions will help everyone.

[2.71828.....]

Oh well.

/in

I expect that I will ask lots more questions about what I'm allowed to post. Feel free to fill this spot with a less annoying player if you prefer.

I will answer all your questions. Just ask them very specifically and in the thread.

For example: "can I post the following quote from my personal qt: 'why is being scum so hard?'"

And I will answer: "no, you cannot post quotes from your personal qt"

Then I will vote for you

[scolapasta]

Oh well.

/in

I expect that I will ask lots more questions about what I'm allowed to post. Feel free to fill this spot with a less annoying player if you prefer.

Well, they seem to have accepted* me, and as I'm sure you've seen from the Decrypto thread, I also tend to ask a lot of annoying questions.

* though I'm still wary this is all a trick

[cayvie]

does ashersky autohammer anymore or has he sailed off into the west

[scolapasta]

does ashersky autohammer anymore or has he sailed off into the west

Annoying question #1: autohammer?

[faust]

does ashersky autohammer anymore or has he sailed off into the west

Annoying question #1: autohammer?

In mafia terminology, when you place the final vote on a player to seal their lynch, that vote is called a hammer. ashersky is known for frequently placing a final vote on someone as soon as the opportunity arises.

In broader terms, people also refer to the person filling the final slot for a game as the hammer, and ashersky is also prone to doing that.

To answer cayvie's question - ashersky still hangs out around here occasionally, but mostly for modding.

[ashersky]

In the interest of getting the game going, if a casually non-invested, phone-posting only vet is okay with the masses, feel free to see the first word in this post.

[cayvie]

may the odds be ever in your favor!!!

let's eat some games

[WestCoastDidds]

In the interest of getting the game going, if a casually non-invested, phone-posting only vet is okay with the masses, feel free to see the first word in this post.

Hooray for Ashersky!!  We are blessed by the blue-eyed avatar!

[Swowl]

If you can't beat em... Join em!


THREAD LOCKED (except for tags)

In order to fade the disconnect of the weekend, we will be starting the game on Monday afternoon.

[Swowl]

All PMs have been sent out!

Please check your inbox and confirm your roles ASAP so we can get this underway.

Also, please check back shorty for clarification on how the Ranking Order will be determined.

[raerae]

Tag

[Eevee]

Tag

[jotheonah]

tag?

[scolapasta]

tag?

Are you in this game?

tag (I think)

[Swowl]

All of the District QT have been sent out and are now open.

Please feel free to use them as you wish.

Deadline to submit Ranking Orders in your PERSONAL QTs is Thursday, March 12th at 8pm Forum Time.

Once the Ranking Orders are submitted we will close all QTs for a brief period (24 hours or less). During that time we will post elaborations on the Draft and the Drafting Process. When the QTs open back up, we will begin the Drafting Phase.


You are doing a great service to the Capitol. May the odds be ever in your favor.

[Swowl]

The first reserved posting slot (post number 3) has been updated with clarifications regarding the Ranking Order and rules about scoring it.

[Swowl]

Post #4 has been updated with the Drafting Phase rules and procedures.

Post #5has been updated with the list of choices for the Draft.

Your shared QTs are now unlocked again.


Please submit your draft selection in your personal QT before 10pm forum time on Sunday, March 15th.

[Swowl]

Shared QTs have been locked. Understanding that it is the weekend, we are going to allow a short period of time for any players that have not yet submitted a bid to do so. After that, we will continue.

[Swowl]

All bids are in. We will send out the needed information shortly. Please confirm you got it in your personal QTs.

If you are going to the secondary Drafting Phase, the deadline for your bid is 8pm FT tomorrow (Tuesday, March 17th at 8pm FT).


Game is set to start Wednesday afternoon.

[Swowl]

Congratulations Tributes... after a... long Training Phase, we are now ready to open the arena.

The Arena will be opening tomorrow evening as planned.



Please be sure to remember that any talk of the Ranking Order will be punished with removal from the arena (or anything that the mods find necessary). If you have questions regarding the posting restriction, you are urged to ask in your private QT first before saying anything in the public game thread.
This rule will be strictly enforced.


If you have not done so already, please confirm the receipt of your draft picks in your personal QTs ASAP


and of course... May the odds be ever in your favor.

[Swowl]

Welcome Tributes... to the first annual FDS Mafia Hunger Games!

Shortly you will be raised into the Arena that has been prepared for this year's Games. You will be... contending... against your fellow Tributes to earn honor for your faction. There will assuredly be fun, adventure, grief... and surprises, as the games continue.

Make no mistake however - this is of course a battle of survival... and only the most worthy will leave this Arena.

That being said, you should know who you are competing against. So without further adieu, allow us to present the players and the districts they represent!


**Please keep in mind that if there is any uncertainty regarding the posting restriction, to please ask in your personal QT prior to posting anything.

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 1...






District 1 is represented by Shraeye and Scolapasta!
Their District is known luxurious goods that it creates for the Capitol. District 1 is known to have trained it canidates from the very beginning of their lives, so they will surely be forces to be reckoned with.

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 2...




image hosting


District 2 is represented by faust and Glooble!
Their District is known for their advancments in building, repairing, and creating for the Capitol. These stone workers may be entering the Arena with only the ability to break rocks with hammers... but they are very very adept at using those hammers.

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 3...






District 3 is represented by Jimmmmm and E!
Their District is known for the great advancements in technology they have made for the Capitol. Do not underestimate these tributes by assuming them desk workers

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 4...






District 4 is represented by LaLight and Ashersky!
Their District is known for their advanced skills surrounding supplying, preparing, and caring for marine life... of course at the expense of the Capitol. While District 4 is not known for its excellence in combat, these tributes have more than proven to be something to be considered a threat in their training so far.

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 5...




image hosting


District 5 is represented by WestCoastDidds and A Drowned Kernal!
Their District is known for their amazing ability to create a source of power for everything you love to use here in the Capitol - All the way from your cars to your television. Be warned though... these are not just mere electrical workers in front of you, but potentially adept killers just like each and every other person in this Arena.

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 6...




image hosting


District 6 is represented by Lekkit and MiX!
Their District is known for the creation of all cars, trains, boats, planes... and every other form of transportation you can think of... of course at the expense of the Capitol. While there are no vehicles here in the Arena, I would not write these two Tributes off... They have more than proven their worth and should be feared adversaries.

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 7...




image hosting


District 7 is represented by xxRaptorSlayer96 and Mail-Mi!
Their District is responsible for gathering, creating, and processing all of the paper, wood, and building materials required to build and maintain this amazing Capitol... and of course your Districts. These Tributes can use an ax better than any you have ever seen - so watch out for them! 

[Swowl]

Please... Welcome to the Arena, the Tributes from District 8...




image hosting


District 8 is represented by EFHW and Cayvie!
Do you like sleeping warm at night under your blanket. Do you enjoy a hammock swing from time to time? Do you use rope, string, patches? Of course you do! We all do! Even us here in the Capitol! And we have no one to thank for that other than the residents of District 8! They have more than proven their ability to move quickly with a needle though, so I would be wary of our Tributes from this District.   

[Swowl]

                                                             Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (16): Scolapasta, Shraeye, faust, Glooble, Jimmmm, E!, LaLight, Ashersky, WCD, ADK, Lekkit, MiX, Raptor, Mail-Mi, EFHW, Cayvie

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.


DAY 1 STARTS NOW! GOOD LUCK!

THREAD UNLOCKED

[mail-mi]

First!

vote: jimmmm

[mail-mi]

Hm, I was thinking it might be a good idea to district claim, but that point is moot now.

[MiX]

Hm, I was thinking it might be a good idea to district claim, but that point is moot now.

Vote: mail-mi, not reading the setup

Feels good to be back.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

[Glooble]

Vote: lekkit

I’m mildly townreading faust based on our QT, but he’s a player I’ve been wrong about a lot of times.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi hi hi hi! Oh, I’ve missed y’all! Especially some of the fold for whom it’s been awhile...you’ve been missed.

Swan, Galzy...the flavor is awesome. The tribute roll out was super cool.

As far as reads in my district-mate. Y’all know ADK is cagey as all get out. I don’t have read on them at all. Now, admittedly, the QT time was when crazy crazy covid things were happening to my job and my life with dramatic swings every day or do, so I was kind of distracted. Now that we’ve settled into quarantine for safety mode, things will calm down. (I am already stir crazy and it’s only been 5 days! And this is supposed to last weeks?!) anyway, I usually read them better once I can see them play, so I should have a better opinion later.

Lekkit is new to me. Any insights?

[cayvie]

heyyy everybody! god im so excited to be playing a big mafia game with a hunger games theme!

i'm glad i checked the thread; i wanted to make this statement early:

I did not get my item in the first round of drafting.

I don't think it's a good idea for anyone else to claim whether they got an item in the first round of drafting.

[cayvie]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

not really. i've never played with her before.

[mail-mi]

heyyy everybody! god im so excited to be playing a big mafia game with a hunger games theme!

i'm glad i checked the thread; i wanted to make this statement early:

I did not get my item in the first round of drafting.

I don't think it's a good idea for anyone else to claim whether they got an item in the first round of drafting.

Then why did you claim?

[cayvie]

heyyy everybody! god im so excited to be playing a big mafia game with a hunger games theme!

i'm glad i checked the thread; i wanted to make this statement early:

I did not get my item in the first round of drafting.

I don't think it's a good idea for anyone else to claim whether they got an item in the first round of drafting.

Then why did you claim?

kind of a complicated train of thought, tbh! basically i figured that, by itself, my claim was a small enough piece of information that it wouldn't give anything dangerous to scum. but i think that if more people followed suit then it might.

[A Drowned Kernel]

heyyy everybody! god im so excited to be playing a big mafia game with a hunger games theme!

i'm glad i checked the thread; i wanted to make this statement early:

I did not get my item in the first round of drafting.

I don't think it's a good idea for anyone else to claim whether they got an item in the first round of drafting.

Then why did you claim?

kind of a complicated train of thought, tbh! basically i figured that, by itself, my claim was a small enough piece of information that it wouldn't give anything dangerous to scum. but i think that if more people followed suit then it might.

What benefit do we gain from knowing that you didn't get your first pick of item?

[cayvie]

What benefit do we gain from knowing that you didn't get your first pick of item?

credibility to my request, hopefully.

[ashersky]

Hi.

Boo to all of you. Dead last?  Really?

vote: all of you

Boo.

[cayvie]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

vote: ADK

1) asking this question
2) asking this question without answering it themself
3) other stuff

[ashersky]

I can’t believe that I am the aggregate scummiest player out of this sixteen (or any sixteen).  I haven’t even played in months.

Boo.

Obligatory vote: faust to see if he’s town or scum.

[cayvie]

Hi.

Boo to all of you. Dead last?  Really?

vote: all of you

Boo.

Hey, I--

wait a minute! nice try 

(also that's really funny)

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

vote: ADK

1) asking this question
2) asking this question without answering it themself
3) other stuff

1) what's scummy about that question?
2) I'm mildly townreading didds at this point

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hi.

Boo to all of you. Dead last?  Really?

vote: all of you

Boo.

Real question to ash: how good or bad do you think people claiming their position is?

[A Drowned Kernel]

What benefit do we gain from knowing that you didn't get your first pick of item?

credibility to my request, hopefully.

It seems to me like the request would be more credible if you hadn't made that claim

[cayvie]

1) what's scummy about that question?
2) I'm mildly townreading didds at this point

1) it's weaksauce! it sounds like "which townies who are neighbors with my scumbuddies do we need to worry about, and which ones are we foolin'?"
2) neat

[A Drowned Kernel]

1) what's scummy about that question?
2) I'm mildly townreading didds at this point

1) it's weaksauce! it sounds like "which townies who are neighbors with my scumbuddies do we need to worry about, and which ones are we foolin'?"
2) neat

I was more hoping we could use the fact that people have had the chance to form some sort of read on at least one person to skip the RVS shenanigans and get the game going

[cayvie]

that's reasonable

i think we're well out of rvs now, so hi 5

[scolapasta]

newbie question #1: RVS?

[cayvie]

newbie question #1: RVS?

RaNdOm VoTe StAgE

a semi-mythical time at the start of each game where people just place votes on each other randomly

[scolapasta]

newbie question #1: RVS?

RaNdOm VoTe StAgE

a semi-mythical time at the start of each game where people just place votes on each other randomly

Got it. Was trying to figure out how people already had ideas on whom to vote for.

[ashersky]

Hi.

Boo to all of you. Dead last?  Really?

vote: all of you

Boo.

Real question to ash: how good or bad do you think people claiming their position is?

No issue with it at all.  As there is no discussion on how the results occurred, it only serves for item claiming stuff anyway.  Like, I see value in people ranking the items by value (understanding scum probably lies) and keeping that as a data point for future claims. 

Knowing draft order in advance of claims helps sort likelihood of lies, but there is an ancillary benefit to scum guessing what is/isn’t safe to claim.  Then again, with the swing/miss mechanic, who knows?

Knowing your pair partner could help with some determinations, too. At the very least, claims should include draft number and round.

[cayvie]

No issue with it at all.  As there is no discussion on how the results occurred, it only serves for item claiming stuff anyway.  Like, I see value in people ranking the items by value (understanding scum probably lies) and keeping that as a data point for future claims. 

Knowing draft order in advance of claims helps sort likelihood of lies, but there is an ancillary benefit to scum guessing what is/isn’t safe to claim.  Then again, with the swing/miss mechanic, who knows?

Knowing your pair partner could help with some determinations, too. At the very least, claims should include draft number and round.

why would scum lie about what item they got/bid on? do you think certain items are scummy/towny just based on their names?

[faust]

Vote: lekkit

I’m mildly townreading faust based on our QT, but he’s a player I’ve been wrong about a lot of times.

Our District is Masonry - I mean, what more do you need to determine my alignment?

[faust]

I can’t believe that I am the aggregate scummiest player out of this sixteen (or any sixteen).  I haven’t even played in months.

Boo.

Obligatory vote: faust to see if he’s town or scum.

Lynching me will accomplish that, yes.

[faust]

1) what's scummy about that question?
2) I'm mildly townreading didds at this point

1) it's weaksauce! it sounds like "which townies who are neighbors with my scumbuddies do we need to worry about, and which ones are we foolin'?"
2) neat

Meh. The scums in those QTs will be able to tell themselves whether they are suspected most of the time. I don't believe they need ADK to ask this question for them.

[faust]

Also cayvie's town.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Hey all! Way to much drinking on the day already to put much thought behind this post, but hello and welcome!

super random unrelated thought but my district deals with processing paper and im currently watching the american office for the Nth time rn so I feel like it all ties in some how.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Also this

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

I didn't get a good read on my district partner because we didn't say all to much to each other, bit of that being my fault and a little busy during that time 

[2.71828.....]

Hi everyone!

This game felt like it took forever to get here.

We are already talking about claiming I guess? My stance is that we go all out and claim everything or claim nothing and let the chips fall where they may for D1

Which practically speaking means no claiming because no way everyone will agree on claiming d1

[2.71828.....]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

My district partner is town

Vote: ADK

[cayvie]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

My district partner is town

Vote: ADK

this doesn't feel like a random vote, what's your thinking?

[LaLight]

hi everyone!

self-isolation started 2 days ago so i may be more active than usual (unless I am watching od the series I fell behind on)

i didn't get the read on ash, of course, not really able to read him

[faust]

self-isolation started 2 days ago so i may be more active than usual (unless I am watching od the series I fell behind on)

This is going to be the most active game in a long time, that's for sure.

[faust]

This game felt like it took forever to get here.

Indeed it did, and I'm not even sure what for. The whole drafting was for a bunch of things that we didn't know what they did and everyone ended up getting one anyway.

[ashersky]

No issue with it at all.  As there is no discussion on how the results occurred, it only serves for item claiming stuff anyway.  Like, I see value in people ranking the items by value (understanding scum probably lies) and keeping that as a data point for future claims. 

Knowing draft order in advance of claims helps sort likelihood of lies, but there is an ancillary benefit to scum guessing what is/isn’t safe to claim.  Then again, with the swing/miss mechanic, who knows?

Knowing your pair partner could help with some determinations, too. At the very least, claims should include draft number and round.

why would scum lie about what item they got/bid on? do you think certain items are scummy/towny just based on their names?

Scum just lie, even if it doesn’t seem sensible.  I think.

Or they don’t want town knowing what item they got due to the name.  Or they want someone to counterclaim an item because they are an item cop or something.  Dunno.  They just lie.

[ashersky]

hi everyone!

self-isolation started 2 days ago so i may be more active than usual (unless I am watching od the series I fell behind on)

i didn't get the read on ash, of course, not really able to read him

My read on LL was towny scum. Or scummy town. Not sure which, but definitely one of those two.

[ashersky]

This game felt like it took forever to get here.

Indeed it did, and I'm not even sure what for. The whole drafting was for a bunch of things that we didn't know what they did and everyone ended up getting one anyway.

To justify the restriction, of course.

I think if we don’t talk about our draft order spots, won/lost items, etc., the long N0 will definitely feel like a waste.

[ashersky]

Hi everyone!

This game felt like it took forever to get here.

We are already talking about claiming I guess? My stance is that we go all out and claim everything or claim nothing and let the chips fall where they may for D1

Which practically speaking means no claiming because no way everyone will agree on claiming d1

Count me in on the full claim team.

[Lekkit]

Let's get going!

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

And just claiming draft spots will problably not give us too much to go on. I think.

[faust]

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

[2.71828.....]

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

Doubtful. We never end up actually doing it

[2.71828.....]

So it was interesting that we got flavor names after picking items

The good thing about that is flavor really doesn't matter for scum/town.

[faust]

There is something in between full claiming and no claiming that we can do in this setting, and that's for each of us to claim to our district partner. That creates accountability because scum has to choose what they want to claim. It might even allow some investigative roles to hide behind their District partners so as to not get killed.

Of course it will inevitably reveal some information to scum.

[2.71828.....]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

My district partner is town

Vote: ADK

this doesn't feel like a random vote, what's your thinking?

Basically same as you.

I think asking the question is fine, just answer it yourself

[2.71828.....]

There is something in between full claiming and no claiming that we can do in this setting, and that's for each of us to claim to our district partner. That creates accountability because scum has to choose what they want to claim. It might even allow some investigative roles to hide behind their District partners so as to not get killed.

Of course it will inevitably reveal some information to scum.

I like this. I will go do that now.

[Lekkit]

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

Nope. This is very much my own memory of the RMM games I've played in. Scum want people to claim. They have more information than town and town pretty much get confused.

[2.71828.....]

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

Nope. This is very much my own memory of the RMM games I've played in. Scum want people to claim. They have more information than town and town pretty much get confused.

Town gets confused because
1) there are no claims
2) people claim things incorrectly

[Lekkit]

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

Nope. This is very much my own memory of the RMM games I've played in. Scum want people to claim. They have more information than town and town pretty much get confused.

Town gets confused because
1) there are no claims
2) people claim things incorrectly

How do you prevent 2 from happening when scum also claims?

[2.71828.....]

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

Nope. This is very much my own memory of the RMM games I've played in. Scum want people to claim. They have more information than town and town pretty much get confused.

Town gets confused because
1) there are no claims
2) people claim things incorrectly

How do you prevent 2 from happening when scum also claims?

What I meant with 2 is that we have had town claim their roles inaccurately. Scum can always lie.

[2.71828.....]

Albeit most of the time when that happens it is an unintentional mistake

[Jimmmmm]

nth! Vote: mail-mi

[MiX]

heyyy everybody! god im so excited to be playing a big mafia game with a hunger games theme!

i'm glad i checked the thread; i wanted to make this statement early:

I did not get my item in the first round of drafting.

I don't think it's a good idea for anyone else to claim whether they got an item in the first round of drafting.

Vote: cayvie, this is either a lie or a misplay, and town!cayvie does neither.

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

vote: ADK

1) asking this question
2) asking this question without answering it themself
3) other stuff

More scummyness from cayvie, initial ADK shenanigans is null or towny, not scummy.

self-isolation started 2 days ago so i may be more active than usual (unless I am watching od the series I fell behind on)

This is going to be the most active game in a long time, that's for sure.

Unfortunate scenarios create the best mafia games! Apparently. I hope.

Hi everyone!

This game felt like it took forever to get here.

We are already talking about claiming I guess? My stance is that we go all out and claim everything or claim nothing and let the chips fall where they may for D1

Which practically speaking means no claiming because no way everyone will agree on claiming d1

Count me in on the full claim team.

This, but I also want to say that I really wanted to go against ash here. But I won't, I think a full claim is good here.


My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

My district partner is town

Vote: ADK

this doesn't feel like a random vote, what's your thinking?

Basically same as you.

I think asking the question is fine, just answer it yourself

I did

[A Drowned Kernel]

Regarding a mass claim: I don't think I've ever actually played a game where a D1 massclaim happened but I see how it could not be terrible here though. What is the main benefit town gets from it? Is it just that we hold people accountable and people get better information on who they should be targetting?

[MiX]

Regarding a mass claim: I don't think I've ever actually played a game where a D1 massclaim happened but I see how it could not be terrible here though. What is the main benefit town gets from it? Is it just that we hold people accountable and people get better information on who they should be targetting?

Yes, at least I can't see anything else.

[WestCoastDidds]

My district partner is town

Vote: ADK

That’s a whole heap of certainty. Why so sure?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: cayvie, this is either a lie or a misplay, and town!cayvie does neither.

I think both parts of this sentence are wrong

[2.71828.....]

vote: EFHW

Let's play this game: who feels like they were or weren't able able to get some sort of read on their district partner?

My district partner is town

Vote: ADK

this doesn't feel like a random vote, what's your thinking?

Basically same as you.

I think asking the question is fine, just answer it yourself

I did

That's what I get for not reading carefully enough.

Could you highlight the post for me?

[MiX]

2) I'm mildly townreading didds at this point

[WestCoastDidds]

What I meant with 2 is that we have had town claim their roles inaccurately. Scum can always lie.

This is usually me, and it is always unintentional, and a result of clever names for PRs and not really understanding shorthand, etc. I think if there is a mass claim, this problem might be attenuated by the larger conversation.

What information are we thinking about claiming? Draft order and if we got our item in round one or two? Or more than that?

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi.

Boo to all of you. Dead last?  Really?

vote: all of you

Boo.

This is hilarious and almost made me spew coffee. I’ve missed you, cranky pants!

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: cayvie, this is either a lie or a misplay, and town!cayvie does neither.

I think both parts of this sentence are wrong

I’m also not sure how MiX has this certain of a cayvie-o meter after one game when she was town and he was not.

[MiX]

Vote: cayvie, this is either a lie or a misplay, and town!cayvie does neither.

I think both parts of this sentence are wrong

I’m also not sure how MiX has this certain of a cayvie-o meter after one game when she was town and he was not.

I was reading people too (which was necessary to see who was what PR) and I noticed cayvie was unbelievably towny. Which is the opposite of this game, at least now.

[faust]

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

[MiX]

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

Accountability, mostly. Locks scum into a few fakeclaims instead of all of them. Probably a bad idea to do so publically now that I think about it...

[Lekkit]

I think it should either be PR or nothing.

[Lekkit]

If everyone is doing it.

[faust]

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

Accountability, mostly. Locks scum into a few fakeclaims instead of all of them. Probably a bad idea to do so publically now that I think about it...

How do you think scum could feasibly claim an item that they didn't get?

[MiX]

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

Accountability, mostly. Locks scum into a few fakeclaims instead of all of them. Probably a bad idea to do so publically now that I think about it...

How do you think scum could feasibly claim an item that they didn't get?

For example, an item their scumpartner got. Or they know what hasn't been picked, I don't know.

[faust]

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

Accountability, mostly. Locks scum into a few fakeclaims instead of all of them. Probably a bad idea to do so publically now that I think about it...

How do you think scum could feasibly claim an item that they didn't get?

For example, an item their scumpartner got. Or they know what hasn't been picked, I don't know.

So if one scum flips we know who the other is? That's a risk I'm willing to take.

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

[faust]

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

Hold on... I just kinda figured the number of items equals the number of players, apparently not. Well, there's a point to this then. If scum knows what hasn't been picked for some reason.

[A Drowned Kernel]

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

Hold on... I just kinda figured the number of items equals the number of players, apparently not. Well, there's a point to this then. If scum knows what hasn't been picked for some reason.

Townread on faust for this

[LaLight]

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

Hold on... I just kinda figured the number of items equals the number of players, apparently not. Well, there's a point to this then. If scum knows what hasn't been picked for some reason.

wait what

[LaLight]

ooooh it's 20 items

[LaLight]

I am open to claiming my item and role

[cayvie]

i am not going to participate in a massclaim today.

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

Hold on... I just kinda figured the number of items equals the number of players, apparently not. Well, there's a point to this then. If scum knows what hasn't been picked for some reason.

do you get why i don't want people to claim whether they got something in the second run, now?

people who didn't get their first pick of item know for certain two things.

1) some subset of items that are in the game

and

2) the number of players who drafted in the first/secound rounds (based on how many items are missing from the list we had to choose from).

i think, based on my info, that the answer to 2 makes it plausible that scum don't have the answer to either question. i.e., that some subset of town has setting information that scum does not. and i think it makes no sense to potentially give up that information day 1 for negligible benefit.

[Glooble]

Cayvie's making a lot of sense to me. MiX, can you explain your scumread on her?

[MiX]

If at least one scum didn't get first pick, then they know what the missing items are. This seems very likely, but not guaranteed, as you said. Are you willing to gamble that scum doesn't have this information?

Wait, how many items are there?

Cayvie's making a lot of sense to me. MiX, can you explain your scumread on her?

Hmm, I already did? It's not more than what I said before. Her approach to things seems different, not sure I can explain it better.

[MiX]

Wait, how many items are there?

20 items? Something is afoot.

A massclaim of items (and probably PRs) is most likely incredibly useful, at least if I read the setup correctly, I'll triple check.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If at least one scum didn't get first pick, then they know what the missing items are. This seems very likely, but not guaranteed, as you said. Are you willing to gamble that scum doesn't have this information?

Wait, how many items are there?

Cayvie's making a lot of sense to me. MiX, can you explain your scumread on her?

Hmm, I already did? It's not more than what I said before. Her approach to things seems different, not sure I can explain it better.

I think what cayvie's saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that based on how few items were available in the second round, there weren't many people in the second round, so it's unlikely that scum were in round

[Glooble]

It all comes down to how we set the claim order, doesn't it?

[MiX]

Wait, how many items are there?

20 items? Something is afoot.

A massclaim of items (and probably PRs) is most likely incredibly useful, at least if I read the setup correctly, I'll triple check.

But also dangerous...we shouldn't massclaim, the downsides are worse than the benefits. I think...?

If at least one scum didn't get first pick, then they know what the missing items are. This seems very likely, but not guaranteed, as you said. Are you willing to gamble that scum doesn't have this information?

Wait, how many items are there?

Cayvie's making a lot of sense to me. MiX, can you explain your scumread on her?

Hmm, I already did? It's not more than what I said before. Her approach to things seems different, not sure I can explain it better.

I think what cayvie's saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that based on how few items were available in the second round, there weren't many people in the second round, so it's unlikely that scum were in round

That is also what I thought.

It all comes down to how we set the claim order, doesn't it?

Doesn't it always?

[MiX]

I suppose cayvie's town.

Unvote

[ashersky]

So, second rounders have some subset of information that first rounders don't have.  Depending on what district partners have discussed already, that information may have been shared.

If all scum got their items in the first round, they would not know what items were available in the second, and therefore what went in the first, unless they are told.

I think the most useful piece of information we can get right now is a round claim.

[cayvie]

Vote: cayvie, this is either a lie or a misplay, and town!cayvie does neither.

I think both parts of this sentence are wrong

well, the second part of the sentence is definitely wrong. it might have been a misplay. that's to be determined.

i don't even see how it could possibly be a lie, tbh. unless MiX thinks i actually did get my first pick of item.

i'm also touched that MiX was that impressed by my losing play in that one bastard game

If at least one scum didn't get first pick, then they know what the missing items are. This seems very likely, but not guaranteed, as you said. Are you willing to gamble that scum doesn't have this information?

Wait, how many items are there?

Cayvie's making a lot of sense to me. MiX, can you explain your scumread on her?

Hmm, I already did? It's not more than what I said before. Her approach to things seems different, not sure I can explain it better.

my approach is different, you're right. if you'll remember, town lost that game really miserably. i partially blame my play. i would like to win this one, so i'm not playing it the same way

oh, also unvote

[ashersky]

Actually, I'm very much convinced of the utility of a round claim.

[cayvie]

So, second rounders have some subset of information that first rounders don't have.  Depending on what district partners have discussed already, that information may have been shared.

If all scum got their items in the first round, they would not know what items were available in the second, and therefore what went in the first, unless they are told.

how do you get from here to

I think the most useful piece of information we can get right now is a round claim.

?

[faust]

I suppose cayvie's town.

Unvote

I am now town as well for agreeing with you?

[ashersky]

So, second rounders have some subset of information that first rounders don't have.  Depending on what district partners have discussed already, that information may have been shared.

If all scum got their items in the first round, they would not know what items were available in the second, and therefore what went in the first, unless they are told.

how do you get from here to

I think the most useful piece of information we can get right now is a round claim.

?

Not exactly related.  I am not suggesting we claim any items.  So round claiming doesn't provide that set of unknown information to first rounders.

[ashersky]

Put another way:

1st Round Winners know what item they got.
2nd Rounders know what item they got and what items no one got in the 1st round.

That is all item information, or ItIn.  That is valuable, and not something I am saying we should claim (right now).

I am more interested in determining those two groups, the round information, or RdIn.  I see value in that with no downside.

[MiX]

I suppose cayvie's town.

Unvote

I am now town as well for agreeing with you?

No. I mean, probably town, but just null. That question is towny, however.

Put another way:

1st Round Winners know what item they got.
2nd Rounders know what item they got and what items no one got in the 1st round.

That is all item information, or ItIn.  That is valuable, and not something I am saying we should claim (right now).

I am more interested in determining those two groups, the round information, or RdIn.  I see value in that with no downside.

I think I agree with this plan.

[cayvie]

Put another way:

1st Round Winners know what item they got.
2nd Rounders know what item they got and what items no one got in the 1st round.

That is all item information, or ItIn.  That is valuable, and not something I am saying we should claim (right now).

I am more interested in determining those two groups, the round information, or RdIn.  I see value in that with no downside.

possible downside: if scum do have the info, and they're trying to eliminate the holder of a particular item, then group claiming will help them narrow the search.

but i mean i've already claimed my round, so i can't exactly stop y'all if you're dead set on a round claim.

[faust]

I'm inclined to side with cayvie on this one.

[MiX]

Put another way:

1st Round Winners know what item they got.
2nd Rounders know what item they got and what items no one got in the 1st round.

That is all item information, or ItIn.  That is valuable, and not something I am saying we should claim (right now).

I am more interested in determining those two groups, the round information, or RdIn.  I see value in that with no downside.

possible downside: if scum do have the info, and they're trying to eliminate the holder of a particular item, then group claiming will help them narrow the search.

but i mean i've already claimed my round, so i can't exactly stop y'all if you're dead set on a round claim.

Narrow to about half of the players sounds meh for scum. Besides they have (post restriction)

Why did you claim to be second round?

[faust]

Vote: MiX

[A Drowned Kernel]

Put another way:

1st Round Winners know what item they got.
2nd Rounders know what item they got and what items no one got in the 1st round.

That is all item information, or ItIn.  That is valuable, and not something I am saying we should claim (right now).

I am more interested in determining those two groups, the round information, or RdIn.  I see value in that with no downside.

possible downside: if scum do have the info, and they're trying to eliminate the holder of a particular item, then group claiming will help them narrow the search.

but i mean i've already claimed my round, so i can't exactly stop y'all if you're dead set on a round claim.

Narrow to about half of the players sounds meh for scum. Besides they have (post restriction)

Why did you claim to be second round?

The implication I'm getting is that the "second rounders" group is actually much less than half the players

[cayvie]

possible downside: if scum do have the info, and they're trying to eliminate the holder of a particular item, then group claiming will help them narrow the search.

but i mean i've already claimed my round, so i can't exactly stop y'all if you're dead set on a round claim.

Narrow to about half of the players sounds meh for scum. Besides they have (post restriction)

Why did you claim to be second round?

i wanted to give some weight to my request that we not round claim, and i didn't want to just come out and state everything i'd been thinking about.

[MiX]

The implication I'm getting is that the "second rounders" group is actually much less than half the players

Which makes it better to do this claim, yes.

possible downside: if scum do have the info, and they're trying to eliminate the holder of a particular item, then group claiming will help them narrow the search.

but i mean i've already claimed my round, so i can't exactly stop y'all if you're dead set on a round claim.

Narrow to about half of the players sounds meh for scum. Besides they have (post restriction)

Why did you claim to be second round?

i wanted to give some weight to my request that we not round claim, and i didn't want to just come out and state everything i'd been thinking about.

Do you have information that makes round claiming bad? It feels like you instead had information that made second round item availability claim bad, which is different.

[A Drowned Kernel]

The implication I'm getting is that the "second rounders" group is actually much less than half the players

Which makes it better to do this claim, yes.

How do?

[shraeye]

Vote: cayvie, this is either a lie or a misplay, and town!cayvie does neither.

I think both parts of this sentence are wrong

I’m also not sure how MiX has this certain of a cayvie-o meter after one game when she was town and he was not.

I was reading people too (which was necessary to see who was what PR) and I noticed cayvie was unbelievably towny. Which is the opposite of this game, at least now.

Who is unbelievably towny?

[MiX]

The implication I'm getting is that the "second rounders" group is actually much less than half the players

Which makes it better to do this claim, yes.

How do?

Well if there's a lot of first rounders, then splitting players in these groups doesn't harm as much.

Who is unbelievably towny?

Here? No one.

[A Drowned Kernel]

The implication I'm getting is that the "second rounders" group is actually much less than half the players

Which makes it better to do this claim, yes.

How do?

Well if there's a lot of first rounders, then splitting players in these groups doesn't harm as much.

I can see ways in which that's harmful, and I gotta say I don't see much benefit from the claim

[shraeye]

So, assuming all of scum went in round 1 and don't know what's left...

can ANYBODY explain to me why it's so important that we don't let scum know which items (of totally unverified functionality) are not claimed??

That seems like a super absurd premise that everybody is completely fine accepting.

[shraeye]

That being said, items really aren't what's important here, I'll have more on this in a bit...stay tuned!!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Who is unbelievably towny?

Here? No one.

Is this you admitting that you're not an IC?

[cayvie]

I want to get away from this line of conversation, lol.

Does scum!faust buddy up to townies? He's definitely the player i'm getting the strongest emotional response from and I'm wondering how calculated that's likely to be, having never played with the guy before.

[MiX]

Who is unbelievably towny?

Here? No one.

Is this you admitting that you're not an IC?

Yes.

[scolapasta]

It's interesting watching this mix of players who have all played before (and thus, have ideas on how others players play).

Is this anyone else's first game? My tendency would be to reveal as little as possible. I di think revealing to District partners is not a good idea - in that case scum learn everything, townies limited.

[mail-mi]

I don't think we should PR claim right off the bat, when has that ever worked out for us? It just gives scum info on which townies got the best PRs to kill first.

I think I'm with Ash on round claiming though, it is good information and may help us narrow down to a lynch.

[mail-mi]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

[mail-mi]

also unvote hi jimmmm

[Lekkit]

I'm willing to round claim. Unwilling to role claim.

[cayvie]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

[mail-mi]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

[2.71828.....]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

I mean, maybe not team scum teams, but mafia+SK could add up to 5 scum.

But I don't like to speculate about such things, and neither should you.

Vote: mail-mi

(I say as I add to the speculation)

[MiX]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

For those who know the setup, what could scum be?

[mail-mi]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

I mean, maybe not team scum teams, but mafia+SK could add up to 5 scum.

But I don't like to speculate about such things, and neither should you.

Vote: mail-mi

(I say as I add to the speculation)

hypocrite

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

For those who know the setup, what could scum be?

This question confuses me. Aren't scum and the mods the only ones who know the setup?

[MiX]

Dammit.

For those that know the flavor, what could scum be?

[WestCoastDidds]

Dammit.

For those that know the flavor, what could scum be?

So, in the books, the kids (tributes) are nominated from each district and then they have to fight to the death. So, in all kinds of ways literally anyone is a killer.  There are districts that have better training than others (the rich ones) so they are more lethal, but not more "scummy" really because they all have to kill one another.

In that later books and movies, there are forces in the government that seek to maintain their power through awful means but those aren't the tributes.

[faust]

I don't think we should PR claim right off the bat, when has that ever worked out for us?

When has it ever not worked for us?

[faust]

I'm willing to round claim. Unwilling to role claim.

I don't want to round claim. I'm edgy.

[faust]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

For those who know the setup, what could scum be?

We're all Serial Killers.

[mail-mi]

I don't think we should PR claim right off the bat, when has that ever worked out for us?

When has it ever not worked for us?

i guess that's a fair point. Are there any games where we've done a day 1 massclaim?

i'm still against it though on the basis that it gives scum directions on where to shoot.

[Swowl]

 Vote Count 1.1:


Mail-Mi (2): Jimmm, E!
faust (1): Ashersky
EFHW (1): ADK
MiX (1): faust
Lekkit (1): Glooble

Not Voting (10): Scolapasta, Shraeye, LaLight, WCD, Lekkit, MiX, Raptor, Mail-Mi, EFHW, Cayvie


Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.

[cayvie]

i'd wager that character is 100% linked to item and not at all to alignment. we could have a town snow or a scum katniss.

to me it's not looking like the mechanics (outside how individual roles work) have anything particularly to do with the hunger games, just the flavor.

e.g. we don't have to kill each other until there's only one of us left.

[cayvie]

here's a thing i've been wondering:

how likely do people think it is that there's a scum/scum district out there?

[mail-mi]

here's a thing i've been wondering:

how likely do people think it is that there's a scum/scum district out there?

depends on how much scum there is, I suppose. I don't think we should base scum reads off of district.

[cayvie]

here's a thing i've been wondering:

how likely do people think it is that there's a scum/scum district out there?

by which i mean 2 scumbuddies. not a mafia/sk team or something, that's not what i'm asking about.

[MiX]

here's a thing i've been wondering:

how likely do people think it is that there's a scum/scum district out there?

I can math it, but assuming 4 scum I'd say around...25%. Totally baseless, of course. Want me to call Space and make that calculation?

[cayvie]

here's a thing i've been wondering:

how likely do people think it is that there's a scum/scum district out there?

depends on how much scum there is, I suppose. I don't think we should base scum reads off of district.

sure. i am asking because if there's 2 scum in a district, that would mean that 2 scum have daychat. (making the assumption that the mafia QT isn't open during the day)

and daychat is powerful for scum to have! so my inclination is to think, no, galz/swan made sure to separate scumbuddies when assigning districts.

[cayvie]

people seem to be assuming that alignments and districts were randomly assigned; is there a basis for that assumption?

[faust]

here's a thing i've been wondering:

how likely do people think it is that there's a scum/scum district out there?

depends on how much scum there is, I suppose. I don't think we should base scum reads off of district.

sure. i am asking because if there's 2 scum in a district, that would mean that 2 scum have daychat. (making the assumption that the mafia QT isn't open during the day)

and daychat is powerful for scum to have! so my inclination is to think, no, galz/swan made sure to separate scumbuddies when assigning districts.

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

[MiX]

people seem to be assuming that alignments and districts were randomly assigned; is there a basis for that assumption?

Phase 1 - Ranking Phase
1. Districts - All players will be randomly assigned one partner. Each pairing will have an shared, private, QT. These 8 shared QT's will be assigned as a District. The District information, and which players are in which District, will be made public at Day 1 Start.

I presume this is why?

PPE 1

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm against round claiming unless someone can provide a concrete reason why it helps us

[MiX]

I'm against round claiming unless someone can provide a concrete reason why it helps us

It helps me determine something about the setup.

I can't really be more specific, but I'll try if you really need it.

[cayvie]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm against round claiming unless someone can provide a concrete reason why it helps us

It helps me determine something about the setup.

I can't really be more specific, but I'll try if you really need it.

Will that determination help you form a read on any particular player(s)?

[A Drowned Kernel]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

I assume the intention of the setup post is that districts are irrespective of alignment and scum/scum districts are possible. Otherwise we could IC someone every time a scum player dies

[MiX]

I'm against round claiming unless someone can provide a concrete reason why it helps us

It helps me determine something about the setup.

I can't really be more specific, but I'll try if you really need it.

Will that determination help you form a read on any particular player(s)?

Doubt it, but the claim process might. This would mostly be for setup information than catching scum lying.

[cayvie]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

I assume the intention of the setup post is that districts are irrespective of alignment and scum/scum districts are possible. Otherwise we could IC someone every time a scum player dies

that's kind of what i'm hoping, yes. not quite ICing, but evidence.

i mean what with Less Pressure being popular now for some reason, maybe daychat scum aren't as scary-sounding as i'm used to them being. but man i have some memories of daychat-coordinated quickhammers and stuff and that's a powerful tool in the scum arsenal for us to be aware of.

[scolapasta]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

I assume the intention of the setup post is that districts are irrespective of alignment and scum/scum districts are possible. Otherwise we could IC someone every time a scum player dies

that's kind of what i'm hoping, yes. not quite ICing, but evidence.

i mean what with Less Pressure being popular now for some reason, maybe daychat scum aren't as scary-sounding as i'm used to them being. but man i have some memories of daychat-coordinated quickhammers and stuff and that's a powerful tool in the scum arsenal for us to be aware of.

OK, 4th time seeing it, so newbie question #2: IC?

[Glooble]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

I assume the intention of the setup post is that districts are irrespective of alignment and scum/scum districts are possible. Otherwise we could IC someone every time a scum player dies

that's kind of what i'm hoping, yes. not quite ICing, but evidence.

i mean what with Less Pressure being popular now for some reason, maybe daychat scum aren't as scary-sounding as i'm used to them being. but man i have some memories of daychat-coordinated quickhammers and stuff and that's a powerful tool in the scum arsenal for us to be aware of.

OK, 4th time seeing it, so newbie question #2: IC?

Innocent Child. A player mod-confirmed to be town.

[faust]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

While this is true, I would think that phrasing is in the above way it that is the case is borderline bastard modding and I don't think it's useful to go there.

[cayvie]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

I assume the intention of the setup post is that districts are irrespective of alignment and scum/scum districts are possible. Otherwise we could IC someone every time a scum player dies

that's kind of what i'm hoping, yes. not quite ICing, but evidence.

i mean what with Less Pressure being popular now for some reason, maybe daychat scum aren't as scary-sounding as i'm used to them being. but man i have some memories of daychat-coordinated quickhammers and stuff and that's a powerful tool in the scum arsenal for us to be aware of.

OK, 4th time seeing it, so newbie question #2: IC?

Innocent Child. A player mod-confirmed to be town.

Also used colloquially to refer to a player that everyone agrees is town based on whatever.

(Sometimes the actual innocent child role is activated by the player, or doesn't show up until a certain day as well)

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm against round claiming unless someone can provide a concrete reason why it helps us

It helps me determine something about the setup.

I can't really be more specific, but I'll try if you really need it.

Will that determination help you form a read on any particular player(s)?

Doubt it, but the claim process might. This would mostly be for setup information than catching scum lying.

I'm going to call that "not concrete enough of a reason"

[cayvie]

The setup post says "All players will be randomly assigned one partner." If they made sure scumbuddies don't share a district, then it's no longer random.

they could randomly assign partners before deciding player alignments, though

While this is true, I would think that phrasing is in the above way it that is the case is borderline bastard modding and I don't think it's useful to go there.

Yeah all right, I buy that.

Suffice it to say, I've got no evidence beyond my own considerable paranoia for my concerns, so I'm going to disregard then for now.

[ashersky]

In response to ADK: I also believe round claiming will provide me/royal us info for narrowing down possible scum claimants.  It’s one of those “if I explain further it no longer works” things, though.

We have some knowledge already: cayvie was a 2r.  If it wasn’t clear to you by now, so am I.

I think if we get full participation, we get useful info that far outweighs whatever bonus you might think scum gets from knowing who went in which round.  If we don’t claim draft number, they can’t even piece together the order in which we went, and if one of the scum is a 2r, they know what the other 2rs know anyway.

To be clear: claim 1r or 2r only.  No item names, no draft order number.

[ashersky]

Also to clarify, my idea on info is revealable immediately after all round claims are completed, so you can hold me to that if so desired.

[EFHW]

I missed the start of the games! Sorry, will catch up post haste.

[WestCoastDidds]

I was R1

[mail-mi]

R1 here.

[EFHW]

I don't feel great about the claims that getting information will lead a player to useful conclusions. It never works out that way. What's the rush? We'll have a much clearer sense of what info we need as the game progresses.

[EFHW]

cayvie is relentlessly towny! She had a number of good ideas in our qt.

[cayvie]

Also to clarify, my idea on info is revealable immediately after all round claims are completed, so you can hold me to that if so desired.

Dammit Ash why you gotta be my strongest townread while arguing the exact opposite of what I want

I mean, if you've got info, you've got info.

[shraeye]

In other news, my district partner is not town.

Vote: scolapasta

[Xxraptorslayer96]

So I guess that we are calming rounds? I was never huge on D1 claims but have to start somewhere right? 
I was Rd 1

I do think that we only claim everything if everyone is on bored with it.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Im also getting a town read on Cayvie!

[cayvie]

In other news, my district partner is not town.

Vote: scolapasta

What happened to make you so confident?

[scolapasta]

In other news, my district partner is not town.

Vote: scolapasta

In other, other news, huh??

[scolapasta]

In other news, my district partner is not town.

Vote: scolapasta

What happened to make you so confident?

Yeah, that's basically, my question!

[faust]

Im also getting a town read on Cayvie!

Yet you do what she's advising against...

[faust]

In other news, my district partner is not town.

Vote: scolapasta

Well, that's good to know.

Vote: scolapasta

[LaLight]

i am first rounder

vote: scolapasta i guess

[EFHW]

What happened to the day 1 pass for newbies? Let him get his feet wet! And with no case whatsoever.

[MiX]

Also to clarify, my idea on info is revealable immediately after all round claims are completed, so you can hold me to that if so desired.

Dammit Ash why you gotta be my strongest townread while arguing the exact opposite of what I want

I mean, if you've got info, you've got info.

I'll just stop arguing about anything publically, apparently you just have to say "if I say anything more then it stops being a good plan" and bam people follow it. I should start doing this as scum...

i am first rounder

vote: scolapasta i guess

Vote: LaLight

I'm Second Rounder

[Glooble]

I’m a first rounder.

Shraeye, I’m gonna need a little more.

[MiX]

Scola is so active in the forum elsewhere it's going to be a mess to reread him. Who would you vote for, if you had to right now?

[EFHW]

Scola is so active in the forum elsewhere it's going to be a mess to reread him. Who would you vote for, if you had to right now?

Use ctrl-F. That only searches the info currently displayed.  Clicking on all pages before that lets you search the whole thread.

[2.71828.....]

First round, best round.

[Lekkit]

First round for me as well.

[Lekkit]

Also. I want to know why people are jumping on the Scola wagon.

[Jimmmmm]

Scum just lie, even if it doesn’t seem sensible.  I think.

Or they don’t want town knowing what item they got due to the name.  Or they want someone to counterclaim an item because they are an item cop or something.  Dunno.  They just lie.

ash, I often found disagreeing with you in the past and I think this statement provides some of the reason why. I think scum try to tell the truth as much as they can. I think most people when playing as scum try to create this alternate reality in their heads in which they are Town, and tell the truth based on that reality, except for when doing so is likely to be bad for their team (such as avoiding lynching teammates).

[WestCoastDidds]

The scola wagon is based on nothing other than Shraye’s completely unsubstantiated assertion. That is typically Shraeye, but the follow along looks scummy to me

Vote: LaLight

[faust]

Scum just lie, even if it doesn’t seem sensible.  I think.

Or they don’t want town knowing what item they got due to the name.  Or they want someone to counterclaim an item because they are an item cop or something.  Dunno.  They just lie.

ash, I often found disagreeing with you in the past and I think this statement provides some of the reason why. I think scum try to tell the truth as much as they can. I think most people when playing as scum try to create this alternate reality in their heads in which they are Town, and tell the truth based on that reality, except for when doing so is likely to be bad for their team (such as avoiding lynching teammates).

I think ashersky is just projecting the way he plays scum, but yeah you're right, most people try to lie as little as possible as scum.

[shraeye]

It's based on our QT, if you want to give a pass, then whatever.

[Jimmmmm]

First round.


Assuming there are 4 scum and the districts are totally random, if I'm correct there is a 14/15 * 12/14 *10/13 ~ 61.5% chance that they are in 4 separate districts, and a 3/15 * 2/14 * 1/13 ~ 0.2% chance they're in 2 pairs, leaving a 38.3% chance they're in one pair and two separately.

4 districts: 61.5%
3 districts: 38.3%
2 districts: 0.2%


With regards to mass-claiming, overall we have no way of knowing if it's helpful or not (although each player obviously has some piece of the puzzle). I believe closed setups are generally designed with the intent that claiming too early is bad for Town. I think it's usually better to give those with useful roles a couple of Nights to use them before we guide scum in killing them off.

About claiming to our partners... I don't know. I'll think more on it. About claiming our items, I don't think it's too hard to guess at what a bunch of them are, and which ones scum want to get rid of.

[WestCoastDidds]

It's based on our QT, if you want to give a pass, then whatever.

You can tell us more? What was scummy about his convo?

[ashersky]

We have some knowledge already: cayvie was a 2r.  If it wasn’t clear to you by now, so am I.

1r: WCD, mail-mi, raptor, LL, Glooble, 2.7, Lekkit, Jimmmmmm
2r: cayvie, ash, MiX

11 of 16 claimed so far.

[ashersky]

Scum just lie, even if it doesn’t seem sensible.  I think.

Or they don’t want town knowing what item they got due to the name.  Or they want someone to counterclaim an item because they are an item cop or something.  Dunno.  They just lie.

ash, I often found disagreeing with you in the past and I think this statement provides some of the reason why. I think scum try to tell the truth as much as they can. I think most people when playing as scum try to create this alternate reality in their heads in which they are Town, and tell the truth based on that reality, except for when doing so is likely to be bad for their team (such as avoiding lynching teammates).

I think ashersky is just projecting the way he plays scum, but yeah you're right, most people try to lie as little as possible as scum.

I think you are both wrong.  Or at least, talking about different things.

"Tell the truth as much as they can" and "lie as little as possible" to me read as if you are talking about game behavior in general.  Re-reading my line, maybe you thought I meant the same, as it isn't clear.  But I was responding (I think) to someone within a discussion about claiming and benefits of the info we get.

I mean that scum lie when specifically put in a position where it is advantageous, such as in claims.

I mean, there's the obvious "I'm not scum" lie that they have to tell.  Then there's the "my role is X" or "my result was X" or "some info I have implies X" lies that they tell.  These types of lies are almost always in response to a request OR as part of an effort to lynch someone.

If the truth serves their purpose, of course they tell the truth.  But if it doesn't, they lie.  And I believe that is the more correct assertion.

[faust]

I mean that scum lie when specifically put in a position where it is advantageous, such as in claims.

I mean, there's the obvious "I'm not scum" lie that they have to tell.  Then there's the "my role is X" or "my result was X" or "some info I have implies X" lies that they tell.  These types of lies are almost always in response to a request OR as part of an effort to lynch someone.

If the truth serves their purpose, of course they tell the truth.  But if it doesn't, they lie.  And I believe that is the more correct assertion.

And I maintain that most people here lie less frequently as scum than they should. They are uncomfortable with lying about their role and thus claim something close to the truth.

[Glooble]

Shraeye, what's the downside of telling us what Scola actually said in the QT to make you so suspicious?

[cayvie]

well right now my gut says that there's a next-to-zero chance that shraeye and scola are scumbuddies, because damn that would be a cold move by shraeye

i do want to hear the gist of what happened, though.

[Jimmmmm]

I mean that scum lie when specifically put in a position where it is advantageous, such as in claims.

I mean, there's the obvious "I'm not scum" lie that they have to tell.  Then there's the "my role is X" or "my result was X" or "some info I have implies X" lies that they tell.  These types of lies are almost always in response to a request OR as part of an effort to lynch someone.

If the truth serves their purpose, of course they tell the truth.  But if it doesn't, they lie.  And I believe that is the more correct assertion.

And I maintain that most people here lie less frequently as scum than they should. They are uncomfortable with lying about their role and thus claim something close to the truth.

I think that's particularly true in a closed game in which you don't know what powers are out there that could catch you in a lie.

[ashersky]

I mean that scum lie when specifically put in a position where it is advantageous, such as in claims.

I mean, there's the obvious "I'm not scum" lie that they have to tell.  Then there's the "my role is X" or "my result was X" or "some info I have implies X" lies that they tell.  These types of lies are almost always in response to a request OR as part of an effort to lynch someone.

If the truth serves their purpose, of course they tell the truth.  But if it doesn't, they lie.  And I believe that is the more correct assertion.

And I maintain that most people here lie less frequently as scum than they should. They are uncomfortable with lying about their role and thus claim something close to the truth.

I think that's particularly true in a closed game in which you don't know what powers are out there that could catch you in a lie.

Well, faust's critical take is at least something I can buy into.

And the fear of being caught out in a lie in a closed game shouldn't have so much power over players -- it's just as likely the power catching you  is the lie (from an unknowing third party perspective) and the scum player should be ready to defend that.

Anyway, why is this a topic, other than it is interesting?  I suspect more lying, you two suspect less lying.  Let's see how it goes.

[ashersky]

well right now my gut says that there's a next-to-zero chance that shraeye and scola are scumbuddies, because damn that would be a cold move by shraeye

i do want to hear the gist of what happened, though.

shraeye can be pretty cold.

[cayvie]

The scola wagon is based on nothing other than Shraye’s completely unsubstantiated assertion. That is typically Shraeye, but the follow along looks scummy to me

Vote: LaLight

vote: WCD

She feels more like she's trying to blend in than in the last couple of games I've played with her. And this LaLight vote feels like a very easy vote to place on someone if you want to pretend to be scumhunting.

[cayvie]

well right now my gut says that there's a next-to-zero chance that shraeye and scola are scumbuddies, because damn that would be a cold move by shraeye

i do want to hear the gist of what happened, though.

shraeye can be pretty cold.

but, like, a d1 bus of an unsuspected scumbuddy? who is a total noob? and that you are potentially giving up daychat to do?

there's cold and then there's psychopathy lol

[MiX]

well right now my gut says that there's a next-to-zero chance that shraeye and scola are scumbuddies, because damn that would be a cold move by shraeye

i do want to hear the gist of what happened, though.

shraeye can be pretty cold.

but, like, a d1 bus of an unsuspected scumbuddy? who is a total noob? and that you are potentially giving up daychat to do?

there's cold and then there's psychopathy lol

Are you really expecting scola to be lynched? They got a day pass because of this.

I don't think shraeye is cold to his teammates, I felt more warmth when I was scum with him.

[cayvie]

Are you really expecting scola to be lynched? They got a day pass because of this.

I don't think shraeye is cold to his teammates, I felt more warmth when I was scum with him.

honestly? yes, i do think there's a realistic chance that scola gets lynched.

if scola wasn't a total noob and i wasn't a lil sentimental, i'd probably be on the wagon right now.

weird to say that he got a day pass because of this tbh. it's not like a voice boomed from the heavens saying "THOU SHALT NOT LYNCH SCOLAPASTA D1" or anything, just some people expressed cold feet.

[MiX]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

[cayvie]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

whoa, okay.

[MiX]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

whoa, okay.

I've been the newbie that was lynched day 1, it ruins the current game and the next as there's nothing to read them over. It's a waste and new people are easier to read anyway, especially if they're scum.

And yeah that was a little over the top, that's how I roll.

[cayvie]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

whoa, okay.

I've been the newbie that was lynched day 1, it ruins the current game and the next as there's nothing to read them over. It's a waste and new people are easier to read anyway, especially if they're scum.

And yeah that was a little over the top, that's how I roll.

well, you've moved from null to townie in my reads now.

[scolapasta]

well right now my gut says that there's a next-to-zero chance that shraeye and scola are scumbuddies, because damn that would be a cold move by shraeye

i do want to hear the gist of what happened, though.

I must've been when I said "I'm scum. You?" /s

I honestly am not sure what it could've been. The only thing is that I haven't been willing to share much in the QT, just like I haven't here (I'm in the don't round claim camp, though if everyone else does, then it's a moot point).

I do think it's best to lay low* right now even with my district partner until I learn more. I'm not sure why that would be suspicious, but I'm especially surprised by the definitiveness of the accusation. (is that just shraeye's style?)

* feel free to convince me otherwise why it's worth trusting my randomly selected district partner over anyone else

So, either, shraeye feels very strongly that not trusting your district partner makes you scum, or shraeye is scum themselves.

vote: shraeye

[mail-mi]

I feel like shraeye is being shraeye, which is loud, mysterious, and overconfident. I'd like a little more substantial case from him before I vote for the newbie day 1.

In other words, vote: Faust

[mail-mi]

I feel like shraeye is being shraeye, which is loud, mysterious, and overconfident. I'd like a little more substantial case from him before I vote for the newbie day 1.

In other words, vote: Faust

That should say, in other news.

[MiX]

Bleh, I hate shraeye's move now.

Scola, if you had to vote for anyone else, who would it be?

[scolapasta]

Bleh, I hate shraeye's move now.

Scola, if you had to vote for anyone else, who would it be?

Anyone other than shraeye?

[MiX]

Bleh, I hate shraeye's move now.

Scola, if you had to vote for anyone else, who would it be?

Anyone other than shraeye?

Yes.

[cayvie]

I feel like shraeye is being shraeye, which is loud, mysterious, and overconfident. I'd like a little more substantial case from him before I vote for the newbie day 1.

In other words, vote: Faust

faust feels a lil bit townie to me. whatcha got?

[faust]

So, either, shraeye feels very strongly that not trusting your district partner makes you scum, or shraeye is scum themselves.

These are not the only options here.

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

whoa, okay.

I've been the newbie that was lynched day 1, it ruins the current game and the next as there's nothing to read them over. It's a waste and new people are easier to read anyway, especially if they're scum.

And yeah that was a little over the top, that's how I roll.

Not often that I straight up agree with MiX, but I do here. There is no time that I get lynched that it doesn’t hurt my feelings. (But I’m tender like that and so that feeling isn’t new to me because, you know, life.) Anyway, I have been playing codenames with Scola, I think he’d like mafia and suggested that he play with us, so I’m not going to participate in getting him lynched on D1 before he gets to figure out how awesome this game and our community are.

[WestCoastDidds]

The scola wagon is based on nothing other than Shraye’s completely unsubstantiated assertion. That is typically Shraeye, but the follow along looks scummy to me

Vote: LaLight

vote: WCD

She feels more like she's trying to blend in than in the last couple of games I've played with her. And this LaLight vote feels like a very easy vote to place on someone if you want to pretend to be scumhunting.

LaLight’s move was also a very easy way to pretend to be scumhunting, especially since it was based on nothing but Shraeye’s pronouncement.

[WestCoastDidds]

We have some knowledge already: cayvie was a 2r.  If it wasn’t clear to you by now, so am I.

1r: WCD, mail-mi, raptor, LL, Glooble, 2.7, Lekkit, Jimmmmmm
2r: cayvie, ash, MiX

11 of 16 claimed so far.

2r people...did you get a list of items still available before your redraft? Can you determine how many people who haven’t claimed are part of 1r? (In truth, I’m not super sure about why it matters, but I like it when problems get solved)

[shraeye]

Also, Ash is totally totally town.

[shraeye]

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

[cayvie]

We have some knowledge already: cayvie was a 2r.  If it wasn’t clear to you by now, so am I.

1r: WCD, mail-mi, raptor, LL, Glooble, 2.7, Lekkit, Jimmmmmm
2r: cayvie, ash, MiX

11 of 16 claimed so far.

2r people...did you get a list of items still available before your redraft? Can you determine how many people who haven’t claimed are part of 1r? (In truth, I’m not super sure about why it matters, but I like it when problems get solved)

yes we did and yes we can (assuming people are telling the truth about their round claims)

The scola wagon is based on nothing other than Shraye’s completely unsubstantiated assertion. That is typically Shraeye, but the follow along looks scummy to me

Vote: LaLight

vote: WCD

She feels more like she's trying to blend in than in the last couple of games I've played with her. And this LaLight vote feels like a very easy vote to place on someone if you want to pretend to be scumhunting.

LaLight’s move was also a very easy way to pretend to be scumhunting, especially since it was based on nothing but Shraeye’s pronouncement.

nah that wasn't scumhunting by lalight at all, that was just sheeping. rereading lalight, i get the same impression i got in the last game, of a player just sort of floating on top of the game. i guess he was scum last game, so that's something.

[MiX]

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

No, we don't.

[cayvie]

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

grrrrrrrrrrrr y'all are some claim-happy jerks

why do we need to know this? how does this help the town?

[WestCoastDidds]

Off topic: They just closed our university for the rest of the semester and I need to make it so that I can teach all of my classes online for the next 6 weeks. So, that’s fun.

I hope you are all weathering this scary and uncertain time. I appreciate all of you for showing up to hang out here.

[shraeye]

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

No, we don't.

Yes yes we do

[faust]

Off topic: They just closed our university for the rest of the semester and I need to make it so that I can teach all of my classes online for the next 6 weeks. So, that’s fun.

I hope you are all weathering this scary and uncertain time. I appreciate all of you for showing up to hang out here.

Same here. We've been doing online lectures and stuff for two weeks now. It's a change. I wonder if this is going to change how university teaching is done in the future.

[shraeye]

Off topic: They just closed our university for the rest of the semester and I need to make it so that I can teach all of my classes online for the next 6 weeks. So, that’s fun.

I hope you are all weathering this scary and uncertain time. I appreciate all of you for showing up to hang out here.

Same here. We've been doing online lectures and stuff for two weeks now. It's a change. I wonder if this is going to change how university teaching is done in the future.

I think so

[MiX]

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

No, we don't.

Yes yes we do

Absolutely never, this helps scum target our probably best PRs in ways a round claim does not.

Why do you even want it anyway?

Off topic: They just closed our university for the rest of the semester and I need to make it so that I can teach all of my classes online for the next 6 weeks. So, that’s fun.

I hope you are all weathering this scary and uncertain time. I appreciate all of you for showing up to hang out here.

Same here. We've been doing online lectures and stuff for two weeks now. It's a change. I wonder if this is going to change how university teaching is done in the future.

My uni's also doing this, but luckily I'm on the learning end.

[cayvie]

Off topic: They just closed our university for the rest of the semester and I need to make it so that I can teach all of my classes online for the next 6 weeks. So, that’s fun.

I hope you are all weathering this scary and uncertain time. I appreciate all of you for showing up to hang out here.

of course <3

i suspect this may be a boom time for forums mafia

[WestCoastDidds]

yes we did and yes we can (assuming people are telling the truth about their round claims)

nah that wasn't scumhunting by lalight at all, that was just sheeping. rereading lalight, i get the same impression i got in the last game, of a player just sort of floating on top of the game. i guess he was scum last game, so that's something.

1. Cool

2. So, same data set as you but I was characterizing that as his LaL scum behavior based on that game. Faust was the first follow, but that’s faust so it didn’t read s scummy. But LaLi at #3, different story

[shraeye]

why do we need to know this? how does this help the town?

It's much more helpful than hoping that all scum were somehow in r1, AND hoping that scum not knowing which items exist will somehow prevent their masterful planning

[WestCoastDidds]

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

No, we don't.

Yes yes we do

Convince me, then

[MiX]

why do we need to know this? how does this help the town?

It's much more helpful than hoping that all scum were somehow in r1, AND hoping that scum not knowing which items exist will somehow prevent their masterful planning

What's the upside of this? I can't see it.

[scolapasta]

Bleh, I hate shraeye's move now.

Scola, if you had to vote for anyone else, who would it be?

Anyone other than shraeye?

Yes.

I'm not really a fan of voting for people just because they voted for me, but in light of other reasons, maybe faust or LaLight.

Or possibly, ashersky as I'm not convinced of the "I also believe round claiming will provide me/royal us info for narrowing down possible scum claimants. It’s one of those “if I explain further it no longer works” things, though." argument.

None of these are strong reasons, though.

[WestCoastDidds]

Off topic: They just closed our university for the rest of the semester and I need to make it so that I can teach all of my classes online for the next 6 weeks. So, that’s fun.

I hope you are all weathering this scary and uncertain time. I appreciate all of you for showing up to hang out here.

Same here. We've been doing online lectures and stuff for two weeks now. It's a change. I wonder if this is going to change how university teaching is done in the future.

I think it has to. I’m at a small liberal arts school and too many of the faculty have been staunchly against distance learning for forever, but now they are being dragged into the 21st century whether they like it or not. That genie isn’t going back in the bottle.

[LaLight]

The scola wagon is based on nothing other than Shraye’s completely unsubstantiated assertion. That is typically Shraeye, but the follow along looks scummy to me

Vote: LaLight

vote: WCD

She feels more like she's trying to blend in than in the last couple of games I've played with her. And this LaLight vote feels like a very easy vote to place on someone if you want to pretend to be scumhunting.

LaLight’s move was also a very easy way to pretend to be scumhunting, especially since it was based on nothing but Shraeye’s pronouncement.

well, it's good to put pressure on people

I don't have reads now, like, at all. shraeye's statement feels like something that can move a game for me

[cayvie]

why do we need to know this? how does this help the town?

It's much more helpful than hoping that all scum were somehow in r1, AND hoping that scum not knowing which items exist will somehow prevent their masterful planning

that wasn't the only thing i was hedging against with discouraging roundclaims, you know. cat's pretty much out of the bag on that front, however.

as i've mentioned, roundclaims also divide people into "those who selected from these X items" and "those who selected from these Y items (four of which do not exist)". and that also can help scum target PRs.

and most importantly, i see little to no town benefit to roundclaim (beyond Ash's hinted-at information)

so, a minor detriment vs an even smaller benefit means don't do it, in my book.

[MiX]

cayvie's town.

This plan has so far been better than any upside I can see to shraeye's plan, to be honest.

[MiX]

cayvie's town.

This plan has so far been better than any upside I can see to shraeye's plan, to be honest.

Er, withdrawn, but town points. Lots of them.

Curious to see the remaining claims.

[LaLight]

I am kind of floating on top of the game, especially D1, because I don't really know what to do, to be honest. There was a game when I was town and lynched D1 because of that, so it's not AI

[LaLight]

I usually know what to do when I have any kind of result, or anyone else does, so shraeye statement was kind of enough for me to cast a vote

[scolapasta]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

whoa, okay.

I've been the newbie that was lynched day 1, it ruins the current game and the next as there's nothing to read them over. It's a waste and new people are easier to read anyway, especially if they're scum.

And yeah that was a little over the top, that's how I roll.

Not often that I straight up agree with MiX, but I do here. There is no time that I get lynched that it doesn’t hurt my feelings. (But I’m tender like that and so that feeling isn’t new to me because, you know, life.) Anyway, I have been playing codenames with Scola, I think he’d like mafia and suggested that he play with us, so I’m not going to participate in getting him lynched on D1 before he gets to figure out how awesome this game and our community are.

I appreciate the sentiment. But I'd say don't "not lynch" me just for this reason, I can handle it. That said don't just lynch me because shraeye's upset that I wouldn't tell them my draft order.

[cayvie]

I am kind of floating on top of the game, especially D1, because I don't really know what to do, to be honest. There was a game when I was town and lynched D1 because of that, so it's not AI

well, if you insist

vote: LaLight

i mean heck this is a real juicy d1 from my perspective, i'm gettin alignment pings left and right. i don't buy that you're picking up absolutely nothing. or rather, i don't buy that you're town and picking up absolutely nothing.

[scolapasta]

So, either, shraeye feels very strongly that not trusting your district partner makes you scum, or shraeye is scum themselves.

These are not the only options here.

Well, this was based on the "certainty" of his assertion. What other options do you see?

[faust]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

whoa, okay.

I've been the newbie that was lynched day 1, it ruins the current game and the next as there's nothing to read them over. It's a waste and new people are easier to read anyway, especially if they're scum.

And yeah that was a little over the top, that's how I roll.

Not often that I straight up agree with MiX, but I do here. There is no time that I get lynched that it doesn’t hurt my feelings. (But I’m tender like that and so that feeling isn’t new to me because, you know, life.) Anyway, I have been playing codenames with Scola, I think he’d like mafia and suggested that he play with us, so I’m not going to participate in getting him lynched on D1 before he gets to figure out how awesome this game and our community are.

I appreciate the sentiment. But I'd say don't "not lynch" me just for this reason, I can handle it. That said don't just lynch me because shraeye's upset that I wouldn't tell them my draft order.

Can we lynch you because you're scum though?

[scolapasta]

Also, man this goes fast - every time I try to post, a new message or two gets posted before I can hit "Post".

Update: even happened with this post!

[faust]

So, either, shraeye feels very strongly that not trusting your district partner makes you scum, or shraeye is scum themselves.

These are not the only options here.

Well, this was based on the "certainty" of his assertion. What other options do you see?

Options that I don't think it's beneficial to discuss right now.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, man this goes fast - every time I try to post, a new message or two gets posted before I can hit "Post".

Update: even happened with this post!

One of the things you’ll see, sometime is “PPE: 4” or something like that. It refers to the number of posts that appeared prior to posting.

[LaLight]

I am kind of floating on top of the game, especially D1, because I don't really know what to do, to be honest. There was a game when I was town and lynched D1 because of that, so it's not AI

well, if you insist

vote: LaLight

i mean heck this is a real juicy d1 from my perspective, i'm gettin alignment pings left and right. i don't buy that you're picking up absolutely nothing. or rather, i don't buy that you're town and picking up absolutely nothing.

as far as I see here, people have 3 or 4 levels of claiming in mind and discuss every one of them as to how better to do it, some people randomly claim some of them based on their opinion at how everyone should claim and I don't think anything of this particularly townie or scummy, tbh. Scum, especially clever scum can participate in all this setup speculation liikng completely townie here. So yeah

[cayvie]

Also, man this goes fast - every time I try to post, a new message or two gets posted before I can hit "Post".

Update: even happened with this post!

yeah this is day 1 of a biggish game during a global pandemic, it's gonna be wild

[LaLight]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

[cayvie]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

unvote

[scolapasta]

I'm giving him a day pass because of this, was what I meant.

And he's being lynched today over my dead body. Dayvig me, I'm ready now.

whoa, okay.

I've been the newbie that was lynched day 1, it ruins the current game and the next as there's nothing to read them over. It's a waste and new people are easier to read anyway, especially if they're scum.

And yeah that was a little over the top, that's how I roll.

Not often that I straight up agree with MiX, but I do here. There is no time that I get lynched that it doesn’t hurt my feelings. (But I’m tender like that and so that feeling isn’t new to me because, you know, life.) Anyway, I have been playing codenames with Scola, I think he’d like mafia and suggested that he play with us, so I’m not going to participate in getting him lynched on D1 before he gets to figure out how awesome this game and our community are.

I appreciate the sentiment. But I'd say don't "not lynch" me just for this reason, I can handle it. That said don't just lynch me because shraeye's upset that I wouldn't tell them my draft order.

Can we lynch you because you're scum though?

If I were, sure. But other than shraeye's* unsupported claim ("It's based on our QT, if you want to give a pass, then whatever."),  why do you think I'm scum?

* and no specific reason to trust the source, is there? In fact, shraeye's the one who just suggested claiming draft order, no? Wouldn't knowing draft order (especially of there's a 2nd rounder among scum) really help the scum narrow do who has what item?

I will say this: shraeye's claim of 13 here is the same they claimed to be in the QT. So at least they are consistent.

[faust]

why do you think I'm scum?

Why do you want to know?

[LaLight]

vote: raptor

[cayvie]

If I were, sure. But other than shraeye's* unsupported claim ("It's based on our QT, if you want to give a pass, then whatever."),  why do you think I'm scum?

* and no specific reason to trust the source, is there? In fact, shraeye's the one who just suggested claiming draft order, no? Wouldn't knowing draft order (especially of there's a 2nd rounder among scum) really help the scum narrow do who has what item?

I will say this: shraeye's claim of 13 here is the same they claimed to be in the QT. So at least they are consistent.

the reason to trust the source is that it's a bold move that would put a lot of heat on shraeye if you flip town. and in general, 1-1 trades aren't in scum's favor early. so the very fact that he made a confident statement against you is a point in shraeye's favor.

regarding draft order and roundclaim, i mean, theoretically it would help, but it's a pretty tricky puzzle, i think.

[MiX]

vote: raptor

Who?

Vote: raptor

[LaLight]

why do you think I'm scum?

Why do you want to know?

I always tend to forget how Awaclusian faust can be

[faust]

vote: raptor

You disappoint me.

[LaLight]

vote: raptor

You disappoint me.

I am sorry.

[scolapasta]

why do you think I'm scum?

Why do you want to know?

Is this part of the "reading" people. The more I talk...

Anyway, this one seems fairly obvious. shraeye and you are the ones who voted for me (and LaLight, though at least they hedged with an "I guess"). If you have good reason, sure, let us know, and others can vote for me too. Without good reason? Why should anyone follow your lead, then?

[MiX]

why do you think I'm scum?

Why do you want to know?

Is this part of the "reading" people. The more I talk...

Anyway, this one seems fairly obvious. shraeye and you are the ones who voted for me (and LaLight, though at least they hedged with an "I guess"). If you have good reason, sure, let us know, and others can vote for me too. Without good reason? Why should anyone follow your lead, then?

Why do you, specifically, want to know the reasons behind votes on yourself? They don't help you in your decision to jump onto your own wagon.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Man, a lot's going down here.

I'm starting to become skeptical that claiming anything is in any way beneficial but I also tend to trust ash's plans. So I was first round

[scolapasta]

If I were, sure. But other than shraeye's* unsupported claim ("It's based on our QT, if you want to give a pass, then whatever."),  why do you think I'm scum?

* and no specific reason to trust the source, is there? In fact, shraeye's the one who just suggested claiming draft order, no? Wouldn't knowing draft order (especially of there's a 2nd rounder among scum) really help the scum narrow do who has what item?

I will say this: shraeye's claim of 13 here is the same they claimed to be in the QT. So at least they are consistent.

the reason to trust the source is that it's a bold move that would put a lot of heat on shraeye if you flip town. and in general, 1-1 trades aren't in scum's favor early. so the very fact that he made a confident statement against you is a point in shraeye's favor.

regarding draft order and roundclaim, i mean, theoretically it would help, but it's a pretty tricky puzzle, i think.

It is a bold move, sure, but I maintain based on what? I'd love to see the reasoning. Again, outside of I wouldn't share my draft order.

I'm definitely willing to consider shraeye as not scum and just being overly aggressive. Especially considering if they were scum, it wouldn't seem prudent to lynch the newbie. (i.e. shraeye is town or just not very good at being scum)

[scolapasta]

why do you think I'm scum?

Why do you want to know?

Is this part of the "reading" people. The more I talk...

Anyway, this one seems fairly obvious. shraeye and you are the ones who voted for me (and LaLight, though at least they hedged with an "I guess"). If you have good reason, sure, let us know, and others can vote for me too. Without good reason? Why should anyone follow your lead, then?

Why do you, specifically, want to know the reasons behind votes on yourself? They don't help you in your decision to jump onto your own wagon.

Still seems obvious, I'd rather still be alive after D1, no? So I'm defending myself. No reason = fewer votes for me. (or at least I'd like to think it should)

Do people not usually try to defend themselves?

[MiX]

Did I miss scola or faust round claiming or did they not claim? There's also EFHW missing.

Still seems obvious, I'd rather still be alive after D1, no? So I'm defending myself. No reason = fewer votes for me. (or at least I'd like to think it should)

Do people not usually try to defend themselves?

Then if they don't give their reason others won't vote, which helps your survival.

Will you round claim?

[scolapasta]

Did I miss scola or faust round claiming or did they not claim? There's also EFHW missing.

Still seems obvious, I'd rather still be alive after D1, no? So I'm defending myself. No reason = fewer votes for me. (or at least I'd like to think it should)

Do people not usually try to defend themselves?

Then if they don't give their reason others won't vote, which helps your survival.

Will you round claim?

Well, two people quickly jumped on the bandwagon without any reasons. I guess that surprised me.

I'm still not sure how round claiming right now helps (vs hinders). I'm sure the reasoning why was explained, but I think I missed it.

(Note neither of my two main accusers (shraeye, faust) have round claimed yet either.)

[scolapasta]

So, I've been trying to think of why shraeye would accuse me and not provide any reasoning, and I now have a hypothesis: as I'm new here, it has been an effective way to get me to post more and maybe reveal more about my style of play (since I was especially terse on the QT).

Mission accomplished, shraeye?

If so, then I'd actually lean towards shraeye being town, as that would reconcile with cayvie's "the reason to trust the source is that it's a bold move that would put a lot of heat on shraeye if you flip town. and in general, 1-1 Trades aren't in scum's favor early. so the very fact that he made a confident statement against you is a point in shraeye's favor."

[2.71828.....]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

And we care why? Because you were guaranteed to get that flashlight?

Vote: LaLight

[2.71828.....]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

And we care why? Because you were guaranteed to get that flashlight?

Vote: LaLight

Oh, it's a spotlight, not flashlight. But the point remains. Just because you are high doesn't mean you have this magical PR that makes you super special.

You guessed at what the items did just like the rest of us. You probably put more thought into it than most of us, true. But still

[faust]

why do you think I'm scum?

Why do you want to know?

Is this part of the "reading" people. The more I talk...

Anyway, this one seems fairly obvious. shraeye and you are the ones who voted for me (and LaLight, though at least they hedged with an "I guess"). If you have good reason, sure, let us know, and others can vote for me too. Without good reason? Why should anyone follow your lead, then?

Are you suggesting that if I give you a good enough reason, you will vote for yourself? Or do you want me to convince others to vote for you?

[faust]

Just because you are high doesn't mean you have this magical

I beg to differ.

[cayvie]

can i interest anyone in a vote: mail-mi?

his content consists so far of idle setup chatter and then this post

I feel like shraeye is being shraeye, which is loud, mysterious, and overconfident. I'd like a little more substantial case from him before I vote for the newbie day 1.

In other words, vote: Faust

which is kind of baffling to me. i know he clarified "words" to "news", that's not the issue. i just don't see what mail-mi hoped to accomplish by dropping a non sequitur vote on faust and then not backing it up with anything.

[mail-mi]

can i interest anyone in a vote: mail-mi?

his content consists so far of idle setup chatter and then this post

I feel like shraeye is being shraeye, which is loud, mysterious, and overconfident. I'd like a little more substantial case from him before I vote for the newbie day 1.

In other words, vote: Faust

which is kind of baffling to me. i know he clarified "words" to "news", that's not the issue. i just don't see what mail-mi hoped to accomplish by dropping a non sequitur vote on faust and then not backing it up with anything.

hi, I'm here. Also working right now and doing homework.

I don't like him jumping on shraeye's vote and continuing to insist scola is scum. Scola just seems newbie to me, not alignment indicative yet.

[mail-mi]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

I think draft order is a little too much info that's helpful to scum, not town.

[cayvie]

hi, I'm here. Also working right now and doing homework.

I don't like him jumping on shraeye's vote and continuing to insist scola is scum. Scola just seems newbie to me, not alignment indicative yet.

hi! why'd you vote faust?

[faust]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

How does it help with PoE?

[mail-mi]

hi, I'm here. Also working right now and doing homework.

I don't like him jumping on shraeye's vote and continuing to insist scola is scum. Scola just seems newbie to me, not alignment indicative yet.

hi! why'd you vote faust?

Did you not read my explanation that's in the very post you quoted?

[mail-mi]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

How does it help with PoE?

In narrowing down lunch choices by deciding to lunch out of round 1 or round 2 claimants.

[cayvie]

hi, I'm here. Also working right now and doing homework.

I don't like him jumping on shraeye's vote and continuing to insist scola is scum. Scola just seems newbie to me, not alignment indicative yet.

hi! why'd you vote faust?

Did you not read my explanation that's in the very post you quoted?

oh sorry i misunderstood it

[MiX]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

How does it help with PoE?

In narrowing down lunch choices by deciding to lunch out of round 1 or round 2 claimants.

This just gives scum confort if there's on the living side of the split. No reason to scumhunt based on it, it's based on draft order, and that's based on nothing.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

I think draft order is a little too much info that's helpful to scum, not town.

How does dividing town into two essentially arbitrary groups help us?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I guess that kind of got answered, but also not really

I'm feeling vote: mail-mi

[EFHW]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

If you are scum, now we want to lynch you even more.

[EFHW]

why do we need to know this? how does this help the town?

It's much more helpful than hoping that all scum were somehow in r1, AND hoping that scum not knowing which items exist will somehow prevent their masterful planning

that wasn't the only thing i was hedging against with discouraging roundclaims, you know. cat's pretty much out of the bag on that front, however.

as i've mentioned, roundclaims also divide people into "those who selected from these X items" and "those who selected from these Y items (four of which do not exist)". and that also can help scum target PRs.

and most importantly, i see little to no town benefit to roundclaim (beyond Ash's hinted-at information)

so, a minor detriment vs an even smaller benefit means don't do it, in my book.

But wait, why did you round claim?

[EFHW]

I'm not seeing the point to the round claiming. It definitely narrows down who has what items, at least for those who were in round 2. Why does town need that info? Is it really worth scum having the same info in addition to their pooled knowledge?

[cayvie]

But wait, why did you round claim?

it was a clearly miscalculated gambit

i hoped that round claiming would lend weight to the idea that i knew what i was talking about when i said that round claiming in general was a bad idea. but uh that clearly was no match for ashersky going "no actually let's round claim"

[shraeye]

(Note neither of my two main accusers (shraeye, faust) have round claimed yet either.)

I did

[MiX]

But wait, why did you round claim?

it was a clearly miscalculated gambit

i hoped that round claiming would lend weight to the idea that i knew what i was talking about when i said that round claiming in general was a bad idea. but uh that clearly was no match for ashersky going "no actually let's round claim"

Round claiming sounds like a good idea in general to be honest. We just have to complete it, otherwise it's pointless.

[scolapasta]

(Note neither of my two main accusers (shraeye, faust) have round claimed yet either.)

I did

Did you? I didn't see it on the summary someone had put up of all round claims.

[shraeye]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

And we care why? Because you were guaranteed to get that flashlight?

Vote: LaLight

Oh, it's a spotlight, not flashlight. But the point remains. Just because you are high doesn't mean you have this magical PR that makes you super special.

You guessed at what the items did just like the rest of us. You probably put more thought into it than most of us, true. But still

How are more people not understanding this?? 

I keep seeing peopel be nervous of round claiming putting us into categories.  Uhhhh, categories are not scary.  Is there ANY reason to believe that scum is concerned with who is in what category?  No.

I keep seeing nervousness over draft order telling scum who drafted better PRs.  No no no.  People are not thinking clearly. 

PUBLIC POLL:
Which is more powerful "Mockingjay pin" or "Trident"?   Which one would go earlier in the draft order? Does your answer change now that we know LaLight is high up? Which one is scum most scared of?  If you can answer ANY of these questions then congrats, you're clairvoyant and it probably isn't fair for you to play this game in the first place.

[mail-mi]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

I think draft order is a little too much info that's helpful to scum, not town.

How does dividing town into two essentially arbitrary groups help us?

Honestly, I'm not sure. However, it is information, and more information is almost always better, and I don't see how it can help scum.

[cayvie]

PUBLIC POLL:
Which is more powerful "Mockingjay pin" or "Trident"?   Which one would go earlier in the draft order? Does your answer change now that we know LaLight is high up? Which one is scum most scared of?  If you can answer ANY of these questions then congrats, you're clairvoyant and it probably isn't fair for you to play this game in the first place.

Not *those specific* items, no.

But what about, say, the Rose and the Bow & Arrow? The symbols of the primary antagonist and protagonist of the series in general? Since items appear to be connected to characters that they represent, I think it's reasonable to think that *some* of the items clearly stick out as high picks.

To put it bluntly, shraeye: Don't you think scum would try to kill Katniss if she is town?

[faust]

PUBLIC POLL:
Which is more powerful "Mockingjay pin" or "Trident"?   Which one would go earlier in the draft order? Does your answer change now that we know LaLight is high up? Which one is scum most scared of?  If you can answer ANY of these questions then congrats, you're clairvoyant and it probably isn't fair for you to play this game in the first place.

Well, I'm pretty sure that the Bandages are some kind of Doctor variant and scum want to kill whoever has them.

[scolapasta]

The issue I see with round claiming is that it narrows down who has what. And some of the items seem pretty obvious what they are or at least what type of role it is, i.e. bandages -> doctor.

2nd round people know which items (and how many) were available to first rounders. So knowing who was what round does categorize which X people got which X Items. The smaller X is the more you can determine who had what (and some subset of those X people are possible scum).

That to me seems information that is useful to for the mafia to want to know.

[faust]

And if you're working with the assumption that the items are inherently unknowable, then I also don't see how all this claiming business is supposed to help us.

[faust]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

[scolapasta]

Question: let's assume bandages is in fact Doctor? Could a Mafia person have picked this and if so, what does it mean for them to be Doctor?

[cayvie]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

wait, what

[cayvie]

Question: let's assume bandages is in fact Doctor? Could a Mafia person have picked this and if so, what does it mean for them to be Doctor?

i mean there's a lot of weapons out there, reasonable to assume that there's nightkills aplenty to be protected from

[faust]

Question: let's assume bandages is in fact Doctor? Could a Mafia person have picked this and if so, what does it mean for them to be Doctor?

It means that they can target one player at night and that player is protected from a nightkill.

[MiX]

PUBLIC POLL:
Which is more powerful "Mockingjay pin" or "Trident"?   Which one would go earlier in the draft order? Does your answer change now that we know LaLight is high up? Which one is scum most scared of?  If you can answer ANY of these questions then congrats, you're clairvoyant and it probably isn't fair for you to play this game in the first place.

Not *those specific* items, no.

But what about, say, the Rose and the Bow & Arrow? The symbols of the primary antagonist and protagonist of the series in general? Since items appear to be connected to characters that they represent, I think it's reasonable to think that *some* of the items clearly stick out as high picks.

To put it bluntly, shraeye: Don't you think scum would try to kill Katniss if she is town?

Hmm, I think that there's a high chance scum doesn't know the flavor, because I had no idea items were characters untill, well, I did, and I don't think this is a conclusion that is instantaneous.

The issue I see with round claiming is that it narrows down who has what. And some of the items seem pretty obvious what they are or at least what type of role it is, i.e. bandages -> doctor.

2nd round people know which items (and how many) were available to first rounders. So knowing who was what round does categorize which X people got which X Items. The smaller X is the more you can determine who had what (and some subset of those X people are possible scum).

That to me seems information that is useful to for the mafia to want to know.

1st round usually has the best items...but also not really. People lower in the draft order will naturally pick things that sound worse, and overall scum has no idea what's the most threatning item anyway, so they can only guess at things.

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

Scumslip? Being right about 2 in 13 isn't really enough to be this confident.

PPE ?, that's a lot of posts

[faust]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

Scumslip? Being right about 2 in 13 isn't really enough to be this confident.

It's enough to counter the argument that we don't have to care about the items at all because only a "clairvoyant" could figure out what they do.

Unless, you know, shraeye believes that I am clairvoyant.

[MiX]

PUBLIC POLL:
Which is more powerful "Mockingjay pin" or "Trident"?   Which one would go earlier in the draft order? Does your answer change now that we know LaLight is high up? Which one is scum most scared of?  If you can answer ANY of these questions then congrats, you're clairvoyant and it probably isn't fair for you to play this game in the first place.

Not *those specific* items, no.

But what about, say, the Rose and the Bow & Arrow? The symbols of the primary antagonist and protagonist of the series in general? Since items appear to be connected to characters that they represent, I think it's reasonable to think that *some* of the items clearly stick out as high picks.

To put it bluntly, shraeye: Don't you think scum would try to kill Katniss if she is town?

Hmm, I think that there's a high chance scum doesn't know the flavor, because I had no idea items were characters untill, well, I did, and I don't think this is a conclusion that is instantaneous.

Let's rephrase that in a way that actually gets my point across...

It's likely (no idea how likely) that scum doesn't know the symbolism of each item, which makes that statement help scum. Although they would probably make more research than me.

Also, scum could be Katniss. And Rose doesn't appear to be a powerful item unless you already knew items related to characters, which means the round has nothing to do with it.

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

Scumslip? Being right about 2 in 13 isn't really enough to be this confident.

It's enough to counter the argument that we don't have to care about the items at all because only a "clairvoyant" could figure out what they do.

Unless, you know, shraeye believes that I am clairvoyant.

Correct, I suppose. Also shraeye believes everyone is clairvoyant, I'm sure everyone can answer if the answers to the other questions change knowing LaLight's high in the draft order (and the answer's no). Nitpicking aside, faust's right, there's a way to induce what the items could be, and scum even have better odds of doing so by having more examples.

[shraeye]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

Scumslip? Being right about 2 in 13 isn't really enough to be this confident.

It's enough to counter the argument that we don't have to care about the items at all because only a "clairvoyant" could figure out what they do.

Unless, you know, shraeye believes that I am clairvoyant.

for you faust, nothing is impossible. 

[shraeye]

Correct, I suppose. Also shraeye believes everyone is clairvoyant, I'm sure everyone can answer if the answers to the other questions change knowing LaLight's high in the draft order (and the answer's no). Nitpicking aside, faust's right, there's a way to induce what the items could be, and scum even have better odds of doing so by having more examples.

But there is not a way for them to guess who picked what.  Like, bandages might mean Doctor.  But would draft order #1 person want Doctor?  Be confident enough that Bandages=Doctor to go for it?  Be confident enough that drafter #2 wouldn't also go for it?

[scolapasta]

Question: let's assume bandages is in fact Doctor? Could a Mafia person have picked this and if so, what does it mean for them to be Doctor?

i mean there's a lot of weapons out there, reasonable to assume that there's nightkills aplenty to be protected from

OK. I've never played a game where anyone but town can be killed at night.

So if any item can be town or scum, I guess I don't see how having the knowledge of who has what really helps the town.
i.e.
Town wants to know who is Mafia. Knowing who the doctor or sheriff is, while useful, doesn't help us much, does it? (I mean if you have a protecting role, you don't even know if you'd want to protect someone based on just role alone)
Meanwhile. mafia do get useful info (albeit obfuscated) about which town person is which role.

So round claiming, to me, definitely seems to help mafia more.

[scolapasta]

Question: let's assume bandages is in fact Doctor? Could a Mafia person have picked this and if so, what does it mean for them to be Doctor?

It means that they can target one player at night and that player is protected from a nightkill.

Yes, that's the definition of doctor. I'm not *that* new. I just have never played with a mafia doctor.

[scolapasta]

SO in the mafia that you guys play are there any roles that are always Mafia or always town? Is it safe, then, for us to assume (or at least it's likely) that none of the items represent those roles? Because, how would that work?

(i.e same question as before, just that Doctior apparently was not a good example)

[MiX]

Correct, I suppose. Also shraeye believes everyone is clairvoyant, I'm sure everyone can answer if the answers to the other questions change knowing LaLight's high in the draft order (and the answer's no). Nitpicking aside, faust's right, there's a way to induce what the items could be, and scum even have better odds of doing so by having more examples.

But there is not a way for them to guess who picked what.  Like, bandages might mean Doctor.  But would draft order #1 person want Doctor?  Be confident enough that Bandages=Doctor to go for it?  Be confident enough that drafter #2 wouldn't also go for it?

Wait, are you arguing to reveal draft order? I know exactly what every #1 would pick, and thus #2 wouldn't. Yes, I'm wrong, but you can induce this based on your own thought process when you were drafting.

Question: let's assume bandages is in fact Doctor? Could a Mafia person have picked this and if so, what does it mean for them to be Doctor?

i mean there's a lot of weapons out there, reasonable to assume that there's nightkills aplenty to be protected from

OK. I've never played a game where anyone but town can be killed at night.

So if any item can be town or scum, I guess I don't see how having the knowledge of who has what really helps the town.
i.e.
Town wants to know who is Mafia. Knowing who the doctor or sheriff is, while useful, doesn't help us much, does it? (I mean if you have a protecting role, you don't even know if you'd want to protect someone based on just role alone)
Meanwhile. mafia do get useful info (albeit obfuscated) about which town person is which role.

So round claiming, to me, definitely seems to help mafia more.

Round claiming just means if you got what you first drafted for. Given how random getting the first draft is, it seems more noise than useful information for scum.

SO in the mafia that you guys play are there any roles that are always Mafia or always town? Is it safe, then, for us to assume (or at least it's likely) that none of the items represent those roles? Because, how would that work?

(i.e same question as before, just that Doctior apparently was not a good example)

Godfather would be really weird here, but could have a different effect if whoever got it was town.

[mail-mi]

All of this stuff about item powers are also contingent on the individual choosing the item. For example, I would figure that Shraeye would value an item related to killing more than others would value said item.

All this being said, I think I'm starting to go back on my "round claiming is useful" idea because I'm being convinced, and as I thought about good reasons for it, I couldn't come up with much.

However, we've already started. Would it be more useful for us or for scum to finish it out? I feel like half-information gives us less benefit while giving scum the same amount of benefit of a full claim.

[mail-mi]

Also, pretty sure shraeye is town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Correct, I suppose. Also shraeye believes everyone is clairvoyant, I'm sure everyone can answer if the answers to the other questions change knowing LaLight's high in the draft order (and the answer's no). Nitpicking aside, faust's right, there's a way to induce what the items could be, and scum even have better odds of doing so by having more examples.

But there is not a way for them to guess who picked what.  Like, bandages might mean Doctor.  But would draft order #1 person want Doctor?  Be confident enough that Bandages=Doctor to go for it?  Be confident enough that drafter #2 wouldn't also go for it?

I think this is a really important point. We can't assume that someone drafting early would draft the "best" things, especially knowing that if their paired person also picks it, then neither get it. 

[scolapasta]

Correct, I suppose. Also shraeye believes everyone is clairvoyant, I'm sure everyone can answer if the answers to the other questions change knowing LaLight's high in the draft order (and the answer's no). Nitpicking aside, faust's right, there's a way to induce what the items could be, and scum even have better odds of doing so by having more examples.

But there is not a way for them to guess who picked what.  Like, bandages might mean Doctor.  But would draft order #1 person want Doctor?  Be confident enough that Bandages=Doctor to go for it?  Be confident enough that drafter #2 wouldn't also go for it?

Wait, are you arguing to reveal draft order? I know exactly what every #1 would pick, and thus #2 wouldn't. Yes, I'm wrong, but you can induce this based on your own thought process when you were drafting.

He did earlier (I was surprised at this):

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

Question: let's assume bandages is in fact Doctor? Could a Mafia person have picked this and if so, what does it mean for them to be Doctor?

i mean there's a lot of weapons out there, reasonable to assume that there's nightkills aplenty to be protected from

OK. I've never played a game where anyone but town can be killed at night.

So if any item can be town or scum, I guess I don't see how having the knowledge of who has what really helps the town.
i.e.
Town wants to know who is Mafia. Knowing who the doctor or sheriff is, while useful, doesn't help us much, does it? (I mean if you have a protecting role, you don't even know if you'd want to protect someone based on just role alone)
Meanwhile. mafia do get useful info (albeit obfuscated) about which town person is which role.

So round claiming, to me, definitely seems to help mafia more.

Round claiming just means if you got what you first drafted for. Given how random getting the first draft is, it seems more noise than useful information for scum.

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

[MiX]

Correct, I suppose. Also shraeye believes everyone is clairvoyant, I'm sure everyone can answer if the answers to the other questions change knowing LaLight's high in the draft order (and the answer's no). Nitpicking aside, faust's right, there's a way to induce what the items could be, and scum even have better odds of doing so by having more examples.

But there is not a way for them to guess who picked what.  Like, bandages might mean Doctor.  But would draft order #1 person want Doctor?  Be confident enough that Bandages=Doctor to go for it?  Be confident enough that drafter #2 wouldn't also go for it?

I think this is a really important point. We can't assume that someone drafting early would draft the "best" things, especially knowing that if their paired person also picks it, then neither get it.

Why would you deliberately pick someone you think #1 would? It helps no one.

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

[faust]

Correct, I suppose. Also shraeye believes everyone is clairvoyant, I'm sure everyone can answer if the answers to the other questions change knowing LaLight's high in the draft order (and the answer's no). Nitpicking aside, faust's right, there's a way to induce what the items could be, and scum even have better odds of doing so by having more examples.

But there is not a way for them to guess who picked what.  Like, bandages might mean Doctor.  But would draft order #1 person want Doctor?  Be confident enough that Bandages=Doctor to go for it?  Be confident enough that drafter #2 wouldn't also go for it?

I think this is a really important point. We can't assume that someone drafting early would draft the "best" things, especially knowing that if their paired person also picks it, then neither get it.

I don't think that comes into play at all. If i have a high draft, I go for the item I want the most. If I don't get it, well then there's another round where I can definitely get the best thing that remains. But why should I settle for a suboptimal choice from the start?

[scolapasta]

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

I agree the more first rounders, the more noise. But there's some info in there (that eventually could become even more useful), while I continue to see no tangible benefit to town.

[MiX]

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

I agree the more first rounders, the more noise. But there's some info in there (that eventually could become even more useful), while I continue to see no tangible benefit to town.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

[A Drowned Kernel]

SO in the mafia that you guys play are there any roles that are always Mafia or always town? Is it safe, then, for us to assume (or at least it's likely) that none of the items represent those roles? Because, how would that work?

(i.e same question as before, just that Doctior apparently was not a good example)

Are you asking this for curiosity's sake, or would you actually benefit from knowing the answer?

[scolapasta]

SO in the mafia that you guys play are there any roles that are always Mafia or always town? Is it safe, then, for us to assume (or at least it's likely) that none of the items represent those roles? Because, how would that work?

(i.e same question as before, just that Doctior apparently was not a good example)

Are you asking this for curiosity's sake, or would you actually benefit from knowing the answer?

Curiosity. I mean, I'm trying to figure out what I think each item / role combo is, so it would help me theoretically eliminate some possibilities.

[A Drowned Kernel]

SO in the mafia that you guys play are there any roles that are always Mafia or always town? Is it safe, then, for us to assume (or at least it's likely) that none of the items represent those roles? Because, how would that work?

(i.e same question as before, just that Doctior apparently was not a good example)

Are you asking this for curiosity's sake, or would you actually benefit from knowing the answer?

Curiosity. I mean, I'm trying to figure out what I think each item / role combo is, so it would help me theoretically eliminate some possibilities.

Ok

[Xxraptorslayer96]

wow this thread is moving fast! im trying to keep up lol

[faust]

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

I agree the more first rounders, the more noise. But there's some info in there (that eventually could become even more useful), while I continue to see no tangible benefit to town.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

Just because ash is going to explain something doesn't mean we're going to see the benefit.

[A Drowned Kernel]

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

I agree the more first rounders, the more noise. But there's some info in there (that eventually could become even more useful), while I continue to see no tangible benefit to town.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

Just because ash is going to explain something doesn't mean we're going to see the benefit.

I mean if ash's explanation sucks then we can just lynch him

[faust]

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

I agree the more first rounders, the more noise. But there's some info in there (that eventually could become even more useful), while I continue to see no tangible benefit to town.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

Just because ash is going to explain something doesn't mean we're going to see the benefit.

I mean if ash's explanation sucks then we can just lynch him

I don't want to lynch ash if his explanation sucks.

[mail-mi]

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

I agree the more first rounders, the more noise. But there's some info in there (that eventually could become even more useful), while I continue to see no tangible benefit to town.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

Just because ash is going to explain something doesn't mean we're going to see the benefit.

I mean if ash's explanation sucks then we can just lynch him

bad plan/explanation/reads != scum.

[cayvie]

Why would you deliberately pick someone you think #1 would? It helps no one.

it helps you if you want to pick in the 2nd round

[scolapasta]

But you also know the subset of items those people got.

Hypothetical: 6 first rounders, 2 are scum. SO Mafia know nows 4 people are 4 items they got. If bandages was a 1st round item, then you've narrowed the doctor down to one of 4 people.

There's 9 first round claims. The low amount of second round claims is why this is a good idea, there's just way too many people that could have "the best item".

I agree the more first rounders, the more noise. But there's some info in there (that eventually could become even more useful), while I continue to see no tangible benefit to town.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

Just because ash is going to explain something doesn't mean we're going to see the benefit.

Right, he did state it would provide me/royal us info. Unless he's miss using the term, royal we, that just means him.

Though I am curious to hear what he would reveal.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't think that comes into play at all. If i have a high draft, I go for the item I want the most. If I don't get it, well then there's another round where I can definitely get the best thing that remains. But why should I settle for a suboptimal choice from the start?

Believe it or not, not everyone has the same idea of what suboptimal or best are.  I have no doubt that there are choices that will seem bizarre to some and make sense to others. 

[cayvie]

Right, he did state it would provide me/royal us info. Unless he's miss using the term, royal we, that just means him.

Though I am curious to hear what he would reveal.

well, ash claimed that he picked last, in the 2nd round. i'm guessing he ordered the items available in the second round, and didn't get his first pick.

therefore, if he knows the entire list of people who picked in the 2nd round, he can drastically narrow down which of those players (us) chose the items that were before his on his ordered list.

e.g., if Ash submitted the 2nd round list of "cigarette, fireplace, pokeball, wednesday" and got the pokeball, he knows that the cigarette and fireplace were taken by 2nd rounders ahead of him.

if we want Ash to have that knowledge, then by all means claim your round.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Has everyone released there round order yet? Did I just miss Faust?

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

Vote: Shraeye for just throwing out draft order

[cayvie]

Has everyone released there round order yet? Did I just miss Faust?

no, and there's no guarantee that everyone will, so stop saying "yet".

[scolapasta]

Right, he did state it would provide me/royal us info. Unless he's miss using the term, royal we, that just means him.

Though I am curious to hear what he would reveal.

well, ash claimed that he picked last, in the 2nd round. i'm guessing he ordered the items available in the second round, and didn't get his first pick.

therefore, if he knows the entire list of people who picked in the 2nd round, he can drastically narrow down which of those players (us) chose the items that were before his on his ordered list.

e.g., if Ash submitted the 2nd round list of "cigarette, fireplace, pokeball, wednesday" and got the pokeball, he knows that the cigarette and fireplace were taken by 2nd rounders ahead of him.

if we want Ash to have that knowledge, then by all means claim your round.

Good point. But why then add " It’s one of those “if I explain further it no longer works” things, though"? Is it jus because he thinks people would then make false claims to hurt this strategy?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Has everyone released there round order yet? Did I just miss Faust?

no, and there's no guarantee that everyone will, so stop saying "yet".

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

[shraeye]

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.2:


faust (2): Ashersky, Mail-Mi
Scolapasta (2): faust, Shraeye
LaLight (2): E!, WCD
RaptorSlayer (2): LaLight, MiX
Shraeye (2): Scolapasta, RaptorSlayer
Mail-Mi (1): Jimmm
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble


Not Voting (3):  Lekkit, EFHW, Cayvie


Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.

[cayvie]

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

[cayvie]

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

[MiX]

Why would you deliberately pick someone you think #1 would? It helps no one.

it helps you if you want to pick in the 2nd round

And why would you want that?

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

cayvie's towny, ash's towny, shraeye is towny...at this point I think everyone in the second round is town, and not by coincidence.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

I can't tell how that helps other than scum's going to kill whoever was #1. Can you come up with a way to claim in "groups", like top 4, bottom 4, etc. that still helps "actual scumhunting"?

[MiX]

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

If all of the town jumped off a bridge, I would also jump off a bridge, because otherwise I'm endgamed.

[scolapasta]

Why would you deliberately pick someone you think #1 would? It helps no one.

it helps you if you want to pick in the 2nd round

And why would you want that?

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

cayvie's towny, ash's towny, shraeye is towny...at this point I think everyone in the second round is town, and not by coincidence.

How would it not be at least somewhat coincidental?

[MiX]

How would it not be at least somewhat coincidental?

The information second rounders have look towny, and their plans and reactions to plans match only having this information. It helps that I have the same information.

[faust]

Did I just miss Faust?

Probably. It's been so long!

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

If it kept me from looking scummy, sure.

[faust]

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

If it kept me from looking scummy, sure.

I'm glad to hear you've got your priorities straight.

[EFHW]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Isn't that the opposite of what raptor is saying?

[MiX]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Vote: EFHW, "scum must've done that thing I didn't"

[mail-mi]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

ashersky isn't that blunt with his plans. This sounds like good old town!ash.

[Lekkit]

I think mass claiming draft order is bad. Especially for round twoers.

[cayvie]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Isn't that the opposite of what raptor is saying?

Raptor just said he'd go along with round claiming avoid "looking scummy"

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

If it kept me from looking scummy, sure.

[EFHW]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Isn't that the opposite of what raptor is saying?

I don't think so.

[EFHW]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Vote: EFHW, "scum must've done that thing I didn't"

Yeah, but I'm trying to explain to myself why it took until now for people to be discussing the item poe from round claiming.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Has everyone released there round order yet? Did I just miss Faust?

no, and there's no guarantee that everyone will, so stop saying "yet".

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

raptor is saying that people who haven't claimed are scummy. You're saying that the people who claimed quickly are scummy

[Glooble]

I've been trying to keep up, but it's moving fast. Anyway, not happy with my vote being still in RVS.

vote: Ashersky

let's see where this goes.

I also think raptor is a bit scummy for his "trying not to look scummy" comment.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hey Glooble, how are you? Why Ashersky?

[cayvie]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Vote: EFHW, "scum must've done that thing I didn't"

Why vote for EFHW here and not raptor? Your paraphrase would seem to fit raptor's comment about how "it's scummy not to round claim because a bunch of people have done it" much better than anything I see that EFHW has said.

[Glooble]

Hey Glooble, how are you? Why Ashersky?

I've actually been quite busy. Apparently a disaster that forces people to stay indoors is extremely profitable for the jigsaw puzzle industry. Working from home four days a week, going in tomorrow (so I won't be on much.)

Initially I thought "ash wouldn't be this obvious about rolefishing" but then I thought about it some more. I don't doubt he's got something convincing sounding to tell us about why he wanted this info as town. But the arguments for why he'd rather get it out as scum are compelling to me.

[MiX]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Vote: EFHW, "scum must've done that thing I didn't"

Why vote for EFHW here and not raptor? Your paraphrase would seem to fit raptor's comment about how "it's scummy not to round claim because a bunch of people have done it" much better than anything I see that EFHW has said.

But EFHW voted someone that did roundclaim using this logic, which makes no sense. She basically applied it reversed, because she hasn't claimed round order. I don't see what's scummy of raptor to be pointing fingers at the non-round claims?

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Vote: EFHW, "scum must've done that thing I didn't"

Yeah, but I'm trying to explain to myself why it took until now for people to be discussing the item poe from round claiming.

What does that have to do with your vote on ash?

[ashersky]

We have some knowledge already: cayvie was a 2r.  If it wasn’t clear to you by now, so am I.

1r: WCD, mail-mi, raptor, LL, Glooble, 2.7, Lekkit, Jimmmmmm
2r: cayvie, ash, MiX

11 of 16 claimed so far.

2r people...did you get a list of items still available before your redraft? Can you determine how many people who haven’t claimed are part of 1r? (In truth, I’m not super sure about why it matters, but I like it when problems get solved)

Replying as I go. 

I did see this was answered.  I’m sad you asked, as this “hidden” info was key.  Theoretically if anyone lied (hence my earlier overt scum lie argument), 2r players could figure out quickly if any claimed 1r or 2r players were lying (within the group, not specifically).  It was a long shot and only really had a chance of working if all scum were r1, but I thought was worth a shot.

Knowing someone got a randomly named item r1 vs. r2 doesn’t help scum in my opinion, especially since an r1 winner might have chosen a silly sounding item and ended up as a fruit vendor of something.

[ashersky]

And I'm 2r.  But honestly, round STILL isn't the most important piece of info.

What we REALLY need to know is everybody's draft order.  I was #13.

I don’t mind it, clearly; I claimed mine way back in my first post.

I don’t see a benefit, yet.  But mixed with r info, could help. 

[ashersky]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

And we care why? Because you were guaranteed to get that flashlight?

Vote: LaLight

Oh, it's a spotlight, not flashlight. But the point remains. Just because you are high doesn't mean you have this magical PR that makes you super special.

You guessed at what the items did just like the rest of us. You probably put more thought into it than most of us, true. But still

How are more people not understanding this?? 

I keep seeing peopel be nervous of round claiming putting us into categories.  Uhhhh, categories are not scary.  Is there ANY reason to believe that scum is concerned with who is in what category?  No.

I keep seeing nervousness over draft order telling scum who drafted better PRs.  No no no.  People are not thinking clearly. 

PUBLIC POLL:
Which is more powerful "Mockingjay pin" or "Trident"?   Which one would go earlier in the draft order? Does your answer change now that we know LaLight is high up? Which one is scum most scared of?  If you can answer ANY of these questions then congrats, you're clairvoyant and it probably isn't fair for you to play this game in the first place.

Yep.  This.

[ashersky]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

vote: faust

The only reason you should know more than one item’s meaning is your scum partners telling you what they got.

[MiX]

Because the #1 pick is probably the best PR. For them, no one should draft order claim.

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

vote: faust

The only reason you should know more than one item’s meaning is your scum partners telling you what they got.

No but yes.

[ashersky]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Are your vote and your comment related?

I was not meek in round claiming.

[ashersky]

Caught up.  WCD asking an astute question ruined my idea.  Banking on a lie by scum based on not thinking things through doesn’t usually work out when someone thinks things through publicly.

If anyone had lied about round, we could have caught them, immediately shrinking the D1 lynchpool, which would have been useful.

[ashersky]

Has there been a vote count this game?

Is that a mechanic?  Do votes count?

[EFHW]

Has everyone released there round order yet? Did I just miss Faust?

no, and there's no guarantee that everyone will, so stop saying "yet".

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

raptor is saying that people who haven't claimed are scummy. You're saying that the people who claimed quickly are scummy

Different thing that he said. He said he claimed round so he wouldn't look scummy.

[EFHW]

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Are your vote and your comment related?

I was not meek in round claiming.

No, they are not connected. I voted you for rolefishing. Then I thought about the people who claimed and why they did that when it seems so counterproductive to me.

I read raptor as saying that he claimed so as not to look scummy, which echoed the thought I was already playing with. There seem to be some other readings of him floating around, but that was the one I was going with.

I'm intending this post as answer to several questions raised recently with regard to my comments.

[shraeye]

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

I can't tell how that helps other than scum's going to kill whoever was #1. Can you come up with a way to claim in "groups", like top 4, bottom 4, etc. that still helps "actual scumhunting"?

Nope.  But I CAN promise that scum won't kill #1.

[shraeye]

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

If all of the town jumped off a bridge, I would also jump off a bridge, because otherwise I'm endgamed.

See team, THIS is the joke we all need.  I love it.  That's forum-signature level stuff right there

[shraeye]

Hey Glooble, how are you? Why Ashersky?

Also why not scolapasta?

[shraeye]

And to give more reasoning to my "case", the reason scolapasta is scum based on QT is the words/reasons I was seeing.  They did not sound organic.  They did not sound like they came from a new-to-forum player.  They sounded like words passed on from another source.

[cayvie]

And to give more reasoning to my "case", the reason scolapasta is scum based on QT is the words/reasons I was seeing.  They did not sound organic.  They did not sound like they came from a new-to-forum player.  They sounded like words passed on from another source.

Oh interesting. At what point in the game did you suspect you were neighbors with scum? While discussing player rankings? After you found out rankings? During day chat today?

[cayvie]

Also I'm thinking shraeye is town now.

Shraeye, faust, EFHW, these are my top town reads ATM

[scolapasta]

And to give more reasoning to my "case", the reason scolapasta is scum based on QT is the words/reasons I was seeing.  They did not sound organic.  They did not sound like they came from a new-to-forum player.  They sounded like words passed on from another source.

Man, I'm not sure if you're just trying to mess with me - I just went back and reread the QT to see what I might have said that was not "organic". Anyway, I give you permission to reveal anything specific I've said there rather than these hand-wavy generalizations.

I guess I should take it as a compliment that I don't seem like a new-to-forum player?

[scolapasta]

Also I'm thinking shraeye is town now.

Shraeye, faust, EFHW, these are my top town reads ATM

It's weird being at odds with my district mate. Oh well.

I do read you (cayvie) as town, but I think you're all wrong here. Well, except for EFHW - she seems town, so far.

[WestCoastDidds]

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

I can't tell how that helps other than scum's going to kill whoever was #1. Can you come up with a way to claim in "groups", like top 4, bottom 4, etc. that still helps "actual scumhunting"?

Nope.  But I CAN promise that scum won't kill #1.

Again, big loaded sentences with no explanation. How can you make that promise?

[WestCoastDidds]

My townsfolk right now are Ash, MiX, cayvie, and ADK. Maybe Shraeye.

Not Glooble, LL, or EFHW

[MiX]

And to give more reasoning to my "case", the reason scolapasta is scum based on QT is the words/reasons I was seeing.  They did not sound organic.  They did not sound like they came from a new-to-forum player.  They sounded like words passed on from another source.

Man, I'm not sure if you're just trying to mess with me - I just went back and reread the QT to see what I might have said that was not "organic". Anyway, I give you permission to reveal anything specific I've said there rather than these hand-wavy generalizations.

I guess I should take it as a compliment that I don't seem like a new-to-forum player?

I'm not sure it's allowed to quote from a neighbor QT. But most importantly, I think the drive to call your neighbor scum is...weird. But I expect scum!shraeye to be more relaxed than this.

vote: ashersky

Raptor has just echoed a thought I was having a moment ago (clairvoyant? which one of us?), which was that scum are likely to have meekly given their round rather than drawing attention to themselves and in hopes of getting the info.

Are your vote and your comment related?

I was not meek in round claiming.

No, they are not connected. I voted you for rolefishing. Then I thought about the people who claimed and why they did that when it seems so counterproductive to me.

I read raptor as saying that he claimed so as not to look scummy, which echoed the thought I was already playing with. There seem to be some other readings of him floating around, but that was the one I was going with.

I'm intending this post as answer to several questions raised recently with regard to my comments.

Thinking more about your thought, I think this has to do with players more than alignment. Scum does things to not look scummy...so does town. Except in their eyes it's a towny thing to do, which also happens to be the same in scum's eyes, but for different reasons. Besides, leaving this unfinished gives scum the same information except nothing useful for town.

[A Drowned Kernel]

And to give more reasoning to my "case", the reason scolapasta is scum based on QT is the words/reasons I was seeing.  They did not sound organic.  They did not sound like they came from a new-to-forum player.  They sounded like words passed on from another source.

I was under the impression that scum didn't have communication during the whole ranking phase

[ashersky]

Has there been a vote count this game?

Is that a mechanic?  Do votes count?

Just raising this, since no one answered.  Am I the only person not in the know?  We're at almost 20 pages -- if I just missed it, let me know.

[ashersky]

And to give more reasoning to my "case", the reason scolapasta is scum based on QT is the words/reasons I was seeing.  They did not sound organic.  They did not sound like they came from a new-to-forum player.  They sounded like words passed on from another source.

I was under the impression that scum didn't have communication during the whole ranking phase

That seems counterintuitive.  If they couldn't talk, when did they talk at all?  My assumption has to be that they got their alignment and scum QT, and then got to talk.  They could have done all their ranking and planning at that point together (the same as was possible in district QTs) as well as share district partner info.  They would also have preset their selections as much as possible with whatever info was known at each step. 

That's how I would have tried to plan it, anyway.

If scum didn't have a QT until after all drafting was done, there really was no time for N0 talk/planning at all, right?  I haven't gone back to check time stamps or anything, though.

[ashersky]

Yeah, just looking at the district QT open and close dates and times, the scum QT had to have existed and been open for talk, so I think ADK is wrong.

That's a towntell, or a scum-planned fake towntell.

[cayvie]

Has there been a vote count this game?

Is that a mechanic?  Do votes count?

Just raising this, since no one answered.  Am I the only person not in the know?  We're at almost 20 pages -- if I just missed it, let me know.

Yeah there have been a couple vote counts

[cayvie]

Yeah, just looking at the district QT open and close dates and times, the scum QT had to have existed and been open for talk, so I think ADK is wrong.

That's a towntell, or a scum-planned fake towntell.

From the second setup post:

"2. Role Information - At this point, all players will ONLY KNOW THEIR ALIGNMENT. They will not have any information what-so-ever outside of which Faction to which they belong."

[cayvie]

My read was that scum did not know each other during player ranking, but did know each other during bidding on items.

[ashersky]

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

Let me explain the multitude of ways that doesn't work.

So, first let's make an assumption and see how it sorts out.  "ashersky made an appeal to get players to claim their round in an effort to find who has the bandages, because ashersky believes the bandages are a doctor."

The assumptions within the assumption:
1) ash believes bandages = doctor
2) scum!ash cares about the doctor
3) scum!ash thinks knowing the rounds of players tells him the doctor

Based on my item, I think #1 is rubbish.  But hey, not everyone does, as I'm sure some players might have made such a connection.  And some items may make more thematic sense than mine, but who knows.  Scum cares about investigative roles much more than protective roles, so #2 is weak.  But both of these are subjective opinions anyway.  Let's look at #3.

In an effort to help cayvie's argument, let's create the most perfect scum scenario for this.  I went r2.  Let's say there are 4 scum and we all went r2.

There were 10 items available in round 2.  For this bandage fishing to be a thing, all four of us scum got something else.
We started with 20 items, so there should be 10 first rounders (this was what my actual plan was trying to confirm).  That leaves 6 2rs.  If 4 scum were in those six, I want to know the other two.  At that point, I have a 50/50 chance at the player who MIGHT have taken bandages.

Is that your basic argument for my rolefishing?  If you reduce the number of scum partners I have in r2 with me, that only decreases my odds.

But we can add my draft place into the mix -- so if I tried to choose bandages (from last place) but didn't get them, that at least confirms they were taken.  So now scum!ash knows bandages are in the game, doesn't know what they are, and wants to find out who has them by narrowing the pool of possible players through a round claim.

Is that about right?

Man, that seems like a ton of work/risk for a small reward, where in the best case scenario I have a 50/50 chance of knowing who has the bandages (where if there are four scum AND I put bandages in my draft list).

Yeah, that seems worth it.

[ashersky]

Yeah, just looking at the district QT open and close dates and times, the scum QT had to have existed and been open for talk, so I think ADK is wrong.

That's a towntell, or a scum-planned fake towntell.

From the second setup post:

"2. Role Information - At this point, all players will ONLY KNOW THEIR ALIGNMENT. They will not have any information what-so-ever outside of which Faction to which they belong."

So they knew alignment, but not partners (even if they shared a district), and had zero talk on N0?  Sucks to be scum in this setup.

[ashersky]

Yeah, just looking at the district QT open and close dates and times, the scum QT had to have existed and been open for talk, so I think ADK is wrong.

That's a towntell, or a scum-planned fake towntell.

From the second setup post:

"2. Role Information - At this point, all players will ONLY KNOW THEIR ALIGNMENT. They will not have any information what-so-ever outside of which Faction to which they belong."

So they knew alignment, but not partners (even if they shared a district), and had zero talk on N0?  Sucks to be scum in this setup.

If that's true, actually, that's really bad.  I wonder if mods would confirm.

Mods, setup question: if a non-town faction were to normally share a QT in the setup, would they have had normal access to it at some time during N0 before the game started per SOPs of other normal and RMM games?

I guess a mitigating factor would be if scum just have daychat.

[ashersky]

At this point:

1r: WCD, mail-mi, raptor, LL, Glooble, 2.7, Lekkit, Jimmmmmm, ADK
2r: cayvie, ash, MiX, shraeye

13 of 16 claimed so far.  scola, faust, EFHW have not.  If the numbers match the items, one of those three is 1r, the other two are 2r.

Draft order, since it is out there:
Lalight - high up
shraeye - 13
ash - 16

[ashersky]

Also, on re-read, I found a vote count!

So that's all good.

[ashersky]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

vote: faust

The only reason you should know more than one item’s meaning is your scum partners telling you what they got.

Again, this seems like the biggest deal and no one is focused on it.

faust guessed 13/20 items.  He now knows he wasn't very far off on those.  How can that be? 

1) he somehow got mod information (hacking, etc.) -- seems unlikely
2) he got a role power that let him do multiple item+role cop actions on N1/D1 -- seems unbalanced
3) his scum partners (and district partner?) told him what their items are, providing him with up to 5 data points -- checks out

vote: faust

[ashersky]

Also, for what is supposedly supposed to be a busy game with everyone quarantined, etc., no one is posting.

[cayvie]

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

Let me explain the multitude of ways that doesn't work.

So, first let's make an assumption and see how it sorts out.  "ashersky made an appeal to get players to claim their round in an effort to find who has the bandages, because ashersky believes the bandages are a doctor."

The assumptions within the assumption:
1) ash believes bandages = doctor
2) scum!ash cares about the doctor
3) scum!ash thinks knowing the rounds of players tells him the doctor

Based on my item, I think #1 is rubbish.  But hey, not everyone does, as I'm sure some players might have made such a connection.  And some items may make more thematic sense than mine, but who knows.  Scum cares about investigative roles much more than protective roles, so #2 is weak.  But both of these are subjective opinions anyway.  Let's look at #3.

In an effort to help cayvie's argument, let's create the most perfect scum scenario for this.  I went r2.  Let's say there are 4 scum and we all went r2.

There were 10 items available in round 2.  For this bandage fishing to be a thing, all four of us scum got something else.
We started with 20 items, so there should be 10 first rounders (this was what my actual plan was trying to confirm).  That leaves 6 2rs.  If 4 scum were in those six, I want to know the other two.  At that point, I have a 50/50 chance at the player who MIGHT have taken bandages.

Is that your basic argument for my rolefishing?  If you reduce the number of scum partners I have in r2 with me, that only decreases my odds.

But we can add my draft place into the mix -- so if I tried to choose bandages (from last place) but didn't get them, that at least confirms they were taken.  So now scum!ash knows bandages are in the game, doesn't know what they are, and wants to find out who has them by narrowing the pool of possible players through a round claim.

Is that about right?

Man, that seems like a ton of work/risk for a small reward, where in the best case scenario I have a 50/50 chance of knowing who has the bandages (where if there are four scum AND I put bandages in my draft list).

Yeah, that seems worth it.

Well frankly I'm just relieved that I've successfully communicated my suspicions and reasons to someone else. Because, yeah, that was my argument.

[cayvie]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

vote: faust

The only reason you should know more than one item’s meaning is your scum partners telling you what they got.

Again, this seems like the biggest deal and no one is focused on it.

faust guessed 13/20 items.  He now knows he wasn't very far off on those.  How can that be? 

1) he somehow got mod information (hacking, etc.) -- seems unlikely
2) he got a role power that let him do multiple item+role cop actions on N1/D1 -- seems unbalanced
3) his scum partners (and district partner?) told him what their items are, providing him with up to 5 data points -- checks out

vote: faust

Faust clarified. He says he knows two items/roles, implying to me at least that he and his district mate have claimed to each other.

[ashersky]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

vote: faust

The only reason you should know more than one item’s meaning is your scum partners telling you what they got.

Again, this seems like the biggest deal and no one is focused on it.

faust guessed 13/20 items.  He now knows he wasn't very far off on those.  How can that be? 

1) he somehow got mod information (hacking, etc.) -- seems unlikely
2) he got a role power that let him do multiple item+role cop actions on N1/D1 -- seems unbalanced
3) his scum partners (and district partner?) told him what their items are, providing him with up to 5 data points -- checks out

vote: faust

Faust clarified. He says he knows two items/roles, implying to me at least that he and his district mate have claimed to each other.

Seems suspect, though, doesn't it?  District partner could confirm, I guess.  District partner could be a scum partner, too.

[ashersky]

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

Let me explain the multitude of ways that doesn't work.

So, first let's make an assumption and see how it sorts out.  "ashersky made an appeal to get players to claim their round in an effort to find who has the bandages, because ashersky believes the bandages are a doctor."

The assumptions within the assumption:
1) ash believes bandages = doctor
2) scum!ash cares about the doctor
3) scum!ash thinks knowing the rounds of players tells him the doctor

Based on my item, I think #1 is rubbish.  But hey, not everyone does, as I'm sure some players might have made such a connection.  And some items may make more thematic sense than mine, but who knows.  Scum cares about investigative roles much more than protective roles, so #2 is weak.  But both of these are subjective opinions anyway.  Let's look at #3.

In an effort to help cayvie's argument, let's create the most perfect scum scenario for this.  I went r2.  Let's say there are 4 scum and we all went r2.

There were 10 items available in round 2.  For this bandage fishing to be a thing, all four of us scum got something else.
We started with 20 items, so there should be 10 first rounders (this was what my actual plan was trying to confirm).  That leaves 6 2rs.  If 4 scum were in those six, I want to know the other two.  At that point, I have a 50/50 chance at the player who MIGHT have taken bandages.

Is that your basic argument for my rolefishing?  If you reduce the number of scum partners I have in r2 with me, that only decreases my odds.

But we can add my draft place into the mix -- so if I tried to choose bandages (from last place) but didn't get them, that at least confirms they were taken.  So now scum!ash knows bandages are in the game, doesn't know what they are, and wants to find out who has them by narrowing the pool of possible players through a round claim.

Is that about right?

Man, that seems like a ton of work/risk for a small reward, where in the best case scenario I have a 50/50 chance of knowing who has the bandages (where if there are four scum AND I put bandages in my draft list).

Yeah, that seems worth it.

Well frankly I'm just relieved that I've successfully communicated my suspicions and reasons to someone else. Because, yeah, that was my argument.

Do you feel it was, or still is, a good argument?

[Galzria]

Please refer to Phase 1: Point 2, and Phase 2: Point 2 of the setup posts.

[ashersky]

Phase 1 - Ranking Phase
2. Role Information - At this point, all players will ONLY KNOW THEIR ALIGNMENT. They will not have any information what-so-ever outside of which Faction to which they belong.

Phase 2 - Drafting Phase
2. All District Threads will re-open, along with any other threads that may exist in the game that were not previously open during the Ranking Phase.

For reference.

So yes, scum did get to talk during N0.

I figured out my own confusion -- I scanned my district QT multiple times and saw that my QT only locked once during N0, then unlocked when the game started.  That seemed really odd to me, and is why I figured scum HAD to have a shared QT from the beginning, since there was no time after QT lock.

Upon a fourth scan, I found that there was a second QT lock/unlock, but the mods didn't bold the orders, so I didn't seem them on scan.

[ashersky]

Not only did they get to talk, they got to fully scheme with draft order set.  And they were able to do it knowing the rules of drafting, from what I can tell from date stamps.

On March 13, at 10:54 p.m., the mods added the drafting rules to this game thread.  After that time, QTs were unlocked.  So scum knew the game and were able to strategize for it.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.3:


Ashersky (3): Cayvie, EFHW, Glooble
faust (2): Ashersky, Mail-Mi
Scolapasta (2): faust, Shraeye
LaLight (2): E!, WCD
EFHW (2): ADK, MiX
Shraeye (2): Scolapasta, RaptorSlayer
RaptorSlayer (1): LaLight
Mail-Mi (1): Jimmm


Not Voting (1):  Lekkit,


Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.

[2.71828.....]

Ashersky is getting some predictable votes because of his play style, but it is all just a big ashersky-tell, not a scum-tell.

[cayvie]

Do you feel it was, or still is, a good argument?

I don't think it's laughably bad.

I think you're overstating the risk that such a move would pose to yourself. I mean everyone expects Ashersky to have a plan, right? That's still a thing?

[cayvie]

Do you feel it was, or still is, a good argument?

I don't think it's laughably bad.

I think you're overstating the risk that such a move would pose to yourself. I mean everyone expects Ashersky to have a plan, right? That's still a thing?

and i certainly think it's a better argument than the idea that scum!faust forgot that townies wouldn't know a bunch of roles and decided to post about it.

[2.71828.....]

Do you feel it was, or still is, a good argument?

I don't think it's laughably bad.

I think you're overstating the risk that such a move would pose to yourself. I mean everyone expects Ashersky to have a plan, right? That's still a thing?

It is a meme more than a thing

[2.71828.....]

I feel like we, as town, get overprotective of our PRs.

We must keep the doctor a secret, or school will kill then.
We must keep the cop a secret, or they will be killed
Etc.

But there is really no need to. The cop and the doc are both targeting blindly (based on their reads, yes). Their only utility is if they get lucky.

If the cop and the doc and the tracker, etc are all revealed, now scum have to make choices. Is the doc the role we kill first? What about if we get tracked? What about a cop?

Those are questions scum have to answer. And we as town are faced with the same questions. Our watcher needs to decide if they want to watch the doctor or the cop. Our cop has to decide what PR they want to validate as town (given the current setup).

These questions, and more importantly their answers, will lead us to catching scum

We should full claim. D1

I got draft choice 2

I took the bow and arrow. I am a vigilante

I am katniss everdeen, and I volunteer as tribute

[cayvie]

ok then

vote: LaLight

[cayvie]

ok then

vote: LaLight

to explain: the reason i unvoted lalight earlier was because i thought he was softclaiming katniss, who i assumed would be some badass town PR

[2.71828.....]

*1-shot vigilante, that is

[cayvie]

i mean, i'm not claiming.

i was having fun back at this site, but if fullclaim d1s is how games on this forum go, this'll likely be my last one.

[2.71828.....]

i mean, i'm not claiming.

i was having fun back at this site, but if fullclaim d1s is how games on this forum go, this'll likely be my last one.

This would be a first

[faust]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

vote: faust

The only reason you should know more than one item’s meaning is your scum partners telling you what they got.

Again, this seems like the biggest deal and no one is focused on it.

faust guessed 13/20 items.  He now knows he wasn't very far off on those.  How can that be? 

1) he somehow got mod information (hacking, etc.) -- seems unlikely
2) he got a role power that let him do multiple item+role cop actions on N1/D1 -- seems unbalanced
3) his scum partners (and district partner?) told him what their items are, providing him with up to 5 data points -- checks out

vote: faust

Maybe it's because someone else already raised this point and I explained myself:

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

Scumslip? Being right about 2 in 13 isn't really enough to be this confident.

It's enough to counter the argument that we don't have to care about the items at all because only a "clairvoyant" could figure out what they do.

Unless, you know, shraeye believes that I am clairvoyant.

[2.71828.....]

And it's not going to happen, trust me

[faust]

Seems suspect, though, doesn't it?  District partner could confirm, I guess.  District partner could be a scum partner, too.

What seems suspect? You believe I lied about knowing Glooble's role? That is some solid scum play right there.

In fact, I was the person to suggest that we should claim to our District partners when the game started.

[faust]

Not only did they get to talk, they got to fully scheme with draft order set.  And they were able to do it knowing the rules of drafting, from what I can tell from date stamps.

On March 13, at 10:54 p.m., the mods added the drafting rules to this game thread.  After that time, QTs were unlocked.  So scum knew the game and were able to strategize for it.

The scum QT was locked for the secondary round of drafting, I got confirmation for that.

[cayvie]

And it's not going to happen, trust me

hey, i'm sorry. i got frustrated at the way this game seems to be going, with all sorts of claims happening willy-nilly. but i shouldn't have resorted to threatening to leave the site. because while i might not find d1 massclaims particularly fun, i'm pretty sure nobody finds emotional manipulation fun. so my bad.

[Lekkit]

13 of 16 claimed so far.  scola, faust, EFHW have not.  If the numbers match the items, one of those three is 1r, the other two are 2r.

Isn't this one of those things you SHOULDN'T have told before everyone claimed?

[Glooble]

Can confirm faust and I shared our items in the district QT.  We decided the utility for town was greater than the risk of one of us being scum.

[Glooble]

Can also confirm that Faust’s guesses about our items were very close to correct.

[LaLight]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

vote: faust

The only reason you should know more than one item’s meaning is your scum partners telling you what they got.

Again, this seems like the biggest deal and no one is focused on it.

faust guessed 13/20 items.  He now knows he wasn't very far off on those.  How can that be? 

1) he somehow got mod information (hacking, etc.) -- seems unlikely
2) he got a role power that let him do multiple item+role cop actions on N1/D1 -- seems unbalanced
3) his scum partners (and district partner?) told him what their items are, providing him with up to 5 data points -- checks out

vote: faust

I think you're very much overreacting here.

[Glooble]

BTW, I won't be able to check in until this evening. Extremely busy at work.

[MiX]

There were 10 items available in round 2.  For this bandage fishing to be a thing, all four of us scum got something else.

We started with 20 items, so there should be 10 first rounders (this was what my actual plan was trying to confirm).

Why did you out this intel?

Vote: ashersky, did you forget about the whole reason behind round claim?

[MiX]

Yeah, just looking at the district QT open and close dates and times, the scum QT had to have existed and been open for talk, so I think ADK is wrong.

That's a towntell, or a scum-planned fake towntell.

From the second setup post:

"2. Role Information - At this point, all players will ONLY KNOW THEIR ALIGNMENT. They will not have any information what-so-ever outside of which Faction to which they belong."

So they knew alignment, but not partners (even if they shared a district), and had zero talk on N0?  Sucks to be scum in this setup.

I presume they got to know their partners and QT after ranking order, otherwise scum is higher up on the draft than random. Not sure what's intended for the ranking order, however, maybe this was planned and encouraged, but I thought it was just a fun way to randomize.

Do you feel it was, or still is, a good argument?

I don't think it's laughably bad.

I think you're overstating the risk that such a move would pose to yourself. I mean everyone expects Ashersky to have a plan, right? That's still a thing?

Not a thing that he encourages anymore, but I suspect it's still in him to do plans.

I got draft choice 2

I took the bow and arrow. I am a vigilante

I am katniss everdeen, and I volunteer as tribute

Lucky! How does this help town?

i mean, i'm not claiming.

i was having fun back at this site, but if fullclaim d1s is how games on this forum go, this'll likely be my last one.

This would be a first

It would be funny if it happened this game, but having played another "PRs are independent of alignment" game, PR claiming helps scum and no one else. I'm heavily against this because of my previous experience.

And it's not going to happen, trust me

hey, i'm sorry. i got frustrated at the way this game seems to be going, with all sorts of claims happening willy-nilly. but i shouldn't have resorted to threatening to leave the site. because while i might not find d1 massclaims particularly fun, i'm pretty sure nobody finds emotional manipulation fun. so my bad.

If there's something about this meta, is that the discussion about claiming is more important than claiming and then solving the mechanical puzzle. Don't worry, once people see the deadline they'll get right back to voting for nonsense like always.


Can we please end the round claim? I'm going to just

Vote: EFHW for voting-and-giving-an-explanation-unrelated-to-voting reasons while FoSing everyone who hasn't round claimed yet. Not that it matters since ash spilled the beans...

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning!

Good luck with work, Glooble. I’ve done two puzzles in the last week, which is about the same number I did the last two years combined, so I can see how business is ramping up.

E is Katniss! That is cool and I trust him to be an awesome vig. I’m not sure that I think LL is the #1 pick, though

MiX, how does e getting the bow and arrow with the #2 pick jibe with your theories about what #1 would do and why they would be targeted to die first?

I like everything that Ashersky is laying down (I’m sorry my question ruined the gambit. Thinking aloud is definitely a habit that is not always advantageous) and I don’t think it is scummy at all. Rather, he seems to be doing some of the heavy scum hunting lifting.

[MiX]

Good morning!

Good luck with work, Glooble. I’ve done two puzzles in the last week, which is about the same number I did the last two years combined, so I can see how business is ramping up.

E is Katniss! That is cool and I trust him to be an awesome vig. I’m not sure that I think LL is the #1 pick, though

MiX, how does e getting the bow and arrow with the #2 pick jibe with your theories about what #1 would do and why they would be targeted to die first?

I like everything that Ashersky is laying down (I’m sorry my question ruined the gambit. Thinking aloud is definitely a habit that is not always advantageous) and I don’t think it is scummy at all. Rather, he seems to be doing some of the heavy scum hunting lifting.

Ash ruined the gambit by himself...

I thought #1 would've chosen bow and arrow. I mean, that makes sense, right? And I thought bow and arrow could be a full shot vig, which is why it would be very valuable.

[cayvie]

Good morning!

Good luck with work, Glooble. I’ve done two puzzles in the last week, which is about the same number I did the last two years combined, so I can see how business is ramping up.

E is Katniss! That is cool and I trust him to be an awesome vig. I’m not sure that I think LL is the #1 pick, though

judging by shraeye's statements (about how he can guarantee #1 won't be killed by scum), i'm pretty sure that scolapasta was the #1 pick.

MiX, how does e getting the bow and arrow with the #2 pick jibe with your theories about what #1 would do and why they would be targeted to die first?

I like everything that Ashersky is laying down (I’m sorry my question ruined the gambit. Thinking aloud is definitely a habit that is not always advantageous) and I don’t think it is scummy at all. Rather, he seems to be doing some of the heavy scum hunting lifting.

agreed.

[MiX]

Good morning!

Good luck with work, Glooble. I’ve done two puzzles in the last week, which is about the same number I did the last two years combined, so I can see how business is ramping up.

E is Katniss! That is cool and I trust him to be an awesome vig. I’m not sure that I think LL is the #1 pick, though

judging by shraeye's statements (about how he can guarantee #1 won't be killed by scum), i'm pretty sure that scolapasta was the #1 pick.

And saying this publically is good because...?

[cayvie]

Can we please end the round claim?

Why should we? Ash has admitted at this point that his gambit isn't going to work. We never agreed to round claim in the first place. So what's the point in pressuring the final few to claim?

[MiX]

Can we please end the round claim?

Why should we? Ash has admitted at this point that his gambit isn't going to work. We never agreed to round claim in the first place. So what's the point in pressuring the final few to claim?

Otherwise this has 0 benefit for town, as opposed to a minimal one.

[cayvie]

Good morning!

Good luck with work, Glooble. I’ve done two puzzles in the last week, which is about the same number I did the last two years combined, so I can see how business is ramping up.

E is Katniss! That is cool and I trust him to be an awesome vig. I’m not sure that I think LL is the #1 pick, though

judging by shraeye's statements (about how he can guarantee #1 won't be killed by scum), i'm pretty sure that scolapasta was the #1 pick.

And saying this publically is good because...?

Gee, MiX, sharing information is bad; not sharing information is scummy; sounds like there's no way to win with you.

[MiX]

Good morning!

Good luck with work, Glooble. I’ve done two puzzles in the last week, which is about the same number I did the last two years combined, so I can see how business is ramping up.

E is Katniss! That is cool and I trust him to be an awesome vig. I’m not sure that I think LL is the #1 pick, though

judging by shraeye's statements (about how he can guarantee #1 won't be killed by scum), i'm pretty sure that scolapasta was the #1 pick.

And saying this publically is good because...?

Gee, MiX, sharing information is bad; not sharing information is scummy; sounds like there's no way to win with you.

Not all information is created equally. Can you answer the question or did you just say that because you realized it and had to say it somewhere?

[cayvie]

Not all information is created equally. Can you answer the question or did you just say that because you realized it and had to say it somewhere?

because i think scum certainly noticed what shraeye implied. either because scolapasta is actually scum, or because they're looking out for stuff like that.

so the likely scenario is that sharing the information only helped town.

please don't insult my intelligence.

[MiX]

Not all information is created equally. Can you answer the question or did you just say that because you realized it and had to say it somewhere?

because i think scum certainly noticed what shraeye implied. either because scolapasta is actually scum, or because they're looking out for stuff like that.

so the likely scenario is that sharing the information only helped town.

please don't insult my intelligence.

Alright, thank you. That makes sense, but why would shraeye push scola if he knows he got first draft pick?

[faust]

Can we please end the round claim?

Why should we? Ash has admitted at this point that his gambit isn't going to work. We never agreed to round claim in the first place. So what's the point in pressuring the final few to claim?

Otherwise this has 0 benefit for town, as opposed to a minimal one.

What's the minimal benefit?

[MiX]

Can we please end the round claim?

Why should we? Ash has admitted at this point that his gambit isn't going to work. We never agreed to round claim in the first place. So what's the point in pressuring the final few to claim?

Otherwise this has 0 benefit for town, as opposed to a minimal one.

What's the minimal benefit?

Well, knowing if there's 10 1st round people, for starters.

[cayvie]

Not all information is created equally. Can you answer the question or did you just say that because you realized it and had to say it somewhere?

because i think scum certainly noticed what shraeye implied. either because scolapasta is actually scum, or because they're looking out for stuff like that.

so the likely scenario is that sharing the information only helped town.

please don't insult my intelligence.

Alright, thank you. That makes sense, but why would shraeye push scola if he knows he got first draft pick?

this question confuses me, MiX. if you have a scumread on someone, why does it matter what their draft pick is?

[faust]

An idea I wanted to float is that since we did not get to see the powers that are linked to the items, it is very much possible that an item would grant a different power to a town player than it would to a scum player. I've thought about this with MiX talking how he expected Bow and Arrow to be a full vig - obviously a full vig is way too powerful to be in scum's hands, but a mod could easily make it full vig for town, 1-shot vig for scum.

I'm not by any means sure that this is the case, and it might very well not be, but it's something to keep in mind.

[2.71828.....]

I got draft choice 2

I took the bow and arrow. I am a vigilante

I am katniss everdeen, and I volunteer as tribute

Lucky! How does this help town?

Which part? Having the vig shot with town is supremely better than having it with scum

As far as the claim goes, my role as vig (especially 1 shot) is not really great to keep quiet about. Towns greatest power to kill scum is (and always will be) it's vote. Not some random vig shot. I count as a random vig shot (because I admit my reads are anything but perfect).

So you can anticipate that I will continue to use my best power (my vote) for a while before I use my shot. Who knows? Maybe I draw a scum NK that allows our cop to live another day.

Bottom line, I think a mass claim is great and all, but I think my role specifically was good to claim. In the end I have always been a big believer in trusting town to use their PRs to towns best interest. That doesn't always happen, but we try our best

[faust]

Can we please end the round claim?

Why should we? Ash has admitted at this point that his gambit isn't going to work. We never agreed to round claim in the first place. So what's the point in pressuring the final few to claim?

Otherwise this has 0 benefit for town, as opposed to a minimal one.

What's the minimal benefit?

Well, knowing if there's 10 1st round people, for starters.

Since scum will only lie about this if they think it is advantageous for them, I fail to see how the information benefits town.

[cayvie]

An idea I wanted to float is that since we did not get to see the powers that are linked to the items, it is very much possible that an item would grant a different power to a town player than it would to a scum player. I've thought about this with MiX talking how he expected Bow and Arrow to be a full vig - obviously a full vig is way too powerful to be in scum's hands, but a mod could easily make it full vig for town, 1-shot vig for scum.

I'm not by any means sure that this is the case, and it might very well not be, but it's something to keep in mind.

I asked the mods whether items had the same power for town and scum and they said they couldn't answer my question. So I think you're potentially onto something here.

[faust]

Vote: e

[cayvie]

Vote: e

good point. vote: e

[2.71828.....]

Vote: e

good point. vote: e

Bad point.

[2.71828.....]

Are the votes based on the speculation that I would have a full vig as town?

[cayvie]

Are the votes based on the speculation that I would have a full vig as town?

not entirely.

my vote is also based on your assertions that

1) a mass-claim is good for town and
2) your role is good to claim because it's weak

[faust]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

[2.71828.....]

Are the votes based on the speculation that I would have a full vig as town?

not entirely.

my vote is also based on your assertions that

1) a mass-claim is good for town and
2) your role is good to claim because it's weak

It's not a weak role, it is not one that does a lot of good unclaimed.

[MiX]

Not all information is created equally. Can you answer the question or did you just say that because you realized it and had to say it somewhere?

because i think scum certainly noticed what shraeye implied. either because scolapasta is actually scum, or because they're looking out for stuff like that.

so the likely scenario is that sharing the information only helped town.

please don't insult my intelligence.

Alright, thank you. That makes sense, but why would shraeye push scola if he knows he got first draft pick?

this question confuses me, MiX. if you have a scumread on someone, why does it matter what their draft pick is?

It sounds incredibly hard to push for a lynch of a newbie that had a high draft order. And a bit...foolish? At least I wouldn't trust my reads based solely on the neighborhood chat for a new person that can backfire if they got something good. I guess shraeye would, huh.

An idea I wanted to float is that since we did not get to see the powers that are linked to the items, it is very much possible that an item would grant a different power to a town player than it would to a scum player. I've thought about this with MiX talking how he expected Bow and Arrow to be a full vig - obviously a full vig is way too powerful to be in scum's hands, but a mod could easily make it full vig for town, 1-shot vig for scum.

I'm not by any means sure that this is the case, and it might very well not be, but it's something to keep in mind.

I agree with this. I mentioned previously that the only way to put a godfather-type role in this game is like this, because town doesn't need it.

I got draft choice 2

I took the bow and arrow. I am a vigilante

I am katniss everdeen, and I volunteer as tribute

Lucky! How does this help town?

Which part? Having the vig shot with town is supremely better than having it with scum

As far as the claim goes, my role as vig (especially 1 shot) is not really great to keep quiet about. Towns greatest power to kill scum is (and always will be) it's vote. Not some random vig shot. I count as a random vig shot (because I admit my reads are anything but perfect).

So you can anticipate that I will continue to use my best power (my vote) for a while before I use my shot. Who knows? Maybe I draw a scum NK that allows our cop to live another day.

Bottom line, I think a mass claim is great and all, but I think my role specifically was good to claim. In the end I have always been a big believer in trusting town to use their PRs to towns best interest. That doesn't always happen, but we try our best

Scum could have other ways to stop you specifically. And how does it help town? Help PRs target? I guess that's not the worst.

Since scum will only lie about this if they think it is advantageous for them, I fail to see how the information benefits town.

When you learn, you'd wish you had lied then. I don't know how advantageous it is, but neither does scum, which means we'll get the truth out.

Vote: e

Lol, even I know that a full vig would be too much power compared to the other existing roles. Or at all. My own speculation on what bow and arrow should be remains secret, as should most speculation about items.

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

So would it if he had claimed it after a tracker, except then a tracker would be outed.

[MiX]

PPE a bunch because I can't keep up! The quote wall post scheme might be for a slower game...

E's not scum for claiming. But I do think it was unecessary. Time will tell.

[2.71828.....]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

That is always the question you are going to have with any vig.

Just wait for our poisoner (rose?) or other vig (Trident?) kill someone and then make the town vig claim

[MiX]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

That is always the question you are going to have with any vig.

Just wait for our poisoner (rose?) or other vig (Trident?) kill someone and then make the town vig claim

How much do you know of the flavor?

[2.71828.....]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

That is always the question you are going to have with any vig.

Just wait for our poisoner (rose?) or other vig (Trident?) kill someone and then make the town vig claim

How much do you know of the flavor?

I have read the books, but not for a while

[mail-mi]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

An idea I wanted to float is that since we did not get to see the powers that are linked to the items, it is very much possible that an item would grant a different power to a town player than it would to a scum player. I've thought about this with MiX talking how he expected Bow and Arrow to be a full vig - obviously a full vig is way too powerful to be in scum's hands, but a mod could easily make it full vig for town, 1-shot vig for scum.

I'm not by any means sure that this is the case, and it might very well not be, but it's something to keep in mind.

I hate to keep revealing information, but if this is going to be the basis for people's votes then I will say that I as town got a role that is only conceivably useful for scum, so it's unlikely that items have different powers for different alignments

[2.71828.....]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

It would. Which is why I took that option away from them

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

It would be a great move for town, too

[cayvie]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

It would be a great move for town, too

it sure would! wouldn't that make a more natural explanation of why you bid on the Bow and Arrow than this:

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

It would. Which is why I took that option away from them

?

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

For anyone who knows anything about the flavor at all, the bow and arrow were obviously one of the most valuable items, and once we found out our role went with our item, we knew it would be Katniss.

I think it would be a too choice, or at least a consideration, for everyone in the top half of the draft.

[cayvie]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

For anyone who knows anything about the flavor at all, the bow and arrow were obviously one of the most valuable items, and once we found out our role went with our item, we knew it would be Katniss.

I think it would be a too choice, or at least a consideration, for everyone in the top half of the draft.

yeah me too! that's why e's explanation of "i took it to keep it out of the hands of scum" rings false to me. you don't bid on the bow and arrow because you're taking one for the team; you do it because it's probably awesome and you wanna be katniss! pew pew!

[MiX]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

For anyone who knows anything about the flavor at all, the bow and arrow were obviously one of the most valuable items, and once we found out our role went with our item, we knew it would be Katniss.

I think it would be a too choice, or at least a consideration, for everyone in the top half of the draft.

yeah me too! that's why e's explanation of "i took it to keep it out of the hands of scum" rings false to me. you don't bid on the bow and arrow because you're taking one for the team; you do it because it's probably awesome and you wanna be katniss! pew pew!

I'm sure everyone wanted to be Katniss in this setup. I literally knew nothing more than her existence when drafting, surely others are like me, and even if not, who doesn't want to be the protagonist? Not to mention "bow and arrow" sounds like a pretty good PR.

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

It would. Which is why I took that option away from them

Did you...not want it just for the sake of it?

In other news E is most likely town.

[Lekkit]

Am I the only player in this game who wouldn't absolutely for sure pick the bow and arrow if I were #1?

[MiX]

Am I the only player in this game who wouldn't absolutely for sure pick the bow and arrow if I were #1?

No.

[cayvie]

Am I the only player in this game who wouldn't absolutely for sure pick the bow and arrow if I were #1?

i mean clearly not. #1 didn't pick it, if e's claim is true.

[ashersky]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

[MiX]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

Is it anti-town to, in this way, reveal that he has shared his PR with Glooble and vice-versa? Because that's effectively what he did.

[ashersky]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

Also please, enlighten us now so we can see just how great you are after the game is done and we can see the mod info.  Otherwise and until then, we can just ignore your statement as your ego talking.

[ashersky]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

Is it anti-town to, in this way, reveal that he has shared his PR with Glooble and vice-versa? Because that's effectively what he did.

No, that reveal, nor the share with Glooble, we in and of themselves anti-town.

Authoritarian edicts that his beliefs about the meanings behind made-up flavor items possibly pushing players in bad directions is.

And my made up item and the role it connects runs directly contrary to his statement.

The actual truth is that two mods just made stuff up for the fun of this game.  There is no clairvoyance, no higher intelligence, nor no method to the madness to codebreak.

[cayvie]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

but his argument wasn't that he was amazing. he was countering shraeye's argument that anyone who claimed to have a good idea what any items did was "clairvoyant"

[ashersky]

Also, no way we waste a lynch on 2.7.  So many possibilities at night with a claimed vig, which messes with mafia minds. If the faust-bandages-doctor-magic exists, they can cast doubt on a scum shot in that direction.  A few NKs can lead to confusion and fun, too.

2.7, definitely shoot.

If 2.7 ends up as the likely lynch, I offer up myself in his place.

[cayvie]

Also, no way we waste a lynch on 2.7.  So many possibilities at night with a claimed vig, which messes with mafia minds. If the faust-bandages-doctor-magic exists, they can cast doubt on a scum shot in that direction.  A few NKs can lead to confusion and fun, too.

2.7, definitely shoot.

If 2.7 ends up as the likely lynch, I offer up myself in his place.

but i think you're town?

[ashersky]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

but his argument wasn't that he was amazing. he was countering shraeye's argument that anyone who claimed to have a good idea what any items did was "clairvoyant"

He was countering that by saying he had a good idea without being clairvoyant. But then his evidence was guessing 13 and knowing two items and then just assuming all of his guesses were correct?   And that is a sensible conclusion to draw?

Hey, I can name two states (regions?) of Germany correctly.  That means all the guesses I make for the other ones are definitely correct.

[ashersky]

Also, no way we waste a lynch on 2.7.  So many possibilities at night with a claimed vig, which messes with mafia minds. If the faust-bandages-doctor-magic exists, they can cast doubt on a scum shot in that direction.  A few NKs can lead to confusion and fun, too.

2.7, definitely shoot.

If 2.7 ends up as the likely lynch, I offer up myself in his place.

but i think you're town?

No you don’t?  Like, you literally started my wagon, didn’t you?  You definitely were the only player to make a case (which I explained and you were happy I understood).

[cayvie]

Also, no way we waste a lynch on 2.7.  So many possibilities at night with a claimed vig, which messes with mafia minds. If the faust-bandages-doctor-magic exists, they can cast doubt on a scum shot in that direction.  A few NKs can lead to confusion and fun, too.

2.7, definitely shoot.

If 2.7 ends up as the likely lynch, I offer up myself in his place.

but i think you're town?

No you don’t?  Like, you literally started my wagon, didn’t you?  You definitely were the only player to make a case (which I explained and you were happy I understood).

yeah i got frustrated and voted you but push comes to shove i don't really think you're scum. i just disagree with you.

[scolapasta]

So, while I am still against the thought that round claim was a positive, since 13/16 already have, I'm no longer convinced that it's beneficial to hold on to it. So I'm willing to reveal - I was a 2nd rounder.

[cayvie]

So, while I am still against the thought that round claim was a positive, since 13/16 already have, I'm no longer convinced that it's beneficial to hold on to it. So I'm willing to reveal - I was a 2nd rounder.

well that's interesting.

so either scola is lying, e is lying, or i read shraeye's implications wrong.

because there's no way scola is #1 and a 2nd rounder AND e is #2 and a first rounder, that's just impossible by the rules.

[scolapasta]

So, while I am still against the thought that round claim was a positive, since 13/16 already have, I'm no longer convinced that it's beneficial to hold on to it. So I'm willing to reveal - I was a 2nd rounder.

well that's interesting.

so either scola is lying, e is lying, or i read shraeye's implications wrong.

because there's no way scola is #1 and a 2nd rounder AND e is #2 and a first rounder, that's just impossible by the rules.

Yeah, I was about to also say that I wasn't #1, but thought it was more fun to leave that implied.

(I hope doing that is not in itself seen as scummy)

[cayvie]

So, while I am still against the thought that round claim was a positive, since 13/16 already have, I'm no longer convinced that it's beneficial to hold on to it. So I'm willing to reveal - I was a 2nd rounder.

well that's interesting.

so either scola is lying, e is lying, or i read shraeye's implications wrong.

because there's no way scola is #1 and a 2nd rounder AND e is #2 and a first rounder, that's just impossible by the rules.

Yeah, I was about to also say that I wasn't #1, but thought it was more fun to leave that implied.

(I hope doing that is not in itself seen as scummy)

all right, cool

now i'm wondering what shraeye's cryptic comment could mean. i'mma go search it out to remind myself.

[cayvie]

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

I can't tell how that helps other than scum's going to kill whoever was #1. Can you come up with a way to claim in "groups", like top 4, bottom 4, etc. that still helps "actual scumhunting"?

Nope.  But I CAN promise that scum won't kill #1.

yeah it's this

idk how shraeye can promise that unless he's #1, scum with #1, or bulletproof

[MiX]

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

I can't tell how that helps other than scum's going to kill whoever was #1. Can you come up with a way to claim in "groups", like top 4, bottom 4, etc. that still helps "actual scumhunting"?

Nope.  But I CAN promise that scum won't kill #1.

yeah it's this

idk how shraeye can promise that unless he's #1, scum with #1, or bulletproof

Scum won't kill #1 because scum IS #1. Uuuuuuh, how would he know this, no idea. You'd think it would be about the scola scumread, but I guess not.

I don't think it's pro-town to discuss this any further, but I don't know.

[cayvie]

Scum won't kill #1 because scum IS #1. Uuuuuuh, how would he know this, no idea. You'd think it would be about the scola scumread, but I guess not.

I don't think it's pro-town to discuss this any further, but I don't know.

if shraeye knows #1 is scum, how could it not be pro-town to discuss this?

[MiX]

Scum won't kill #1 because scum IS #1. Uuuuuuh, how would he know this, no idea. You'd think it would be about the scola scumread, but I guess not.

I don't think it's pro-town to discuss this any further, but I don't know.

if shraeye knows #1 is scum, how could it not be pro-town to discuss this?

Discussing how he knows isn't pro-town. Or something...I also think doing a draft order claim first is better than this. Which I am now fine with.

[cayvie]

Scum won't kill #1 because scum IS #1. Uuuuuuh, how would he know this, no idea. You'd think it would be about the scola scumread, but I guess not.

I don't think it's pro-town to discuss this any further, but I don't know.

if shraeye knows #1 is scum, how could it not be pro-town to discuss this?

Discussing how he knows isn't pro-town. Or something...I also think doing a draft order claim first is better than this. Which I am now fine with.

you know what, I might agree with you.

[MiX]

Discussing how he knows isn't pro-town. Or something...I also think doing a draft order claim first is better than this. Which I am now fine with.

If we're doing this I also have a way to organize: 1st round claims first, then 2nd round. This seems correct, who's with me?

[cayvie]

if we do claim, i propose claiming in reverse draft order. starting with #15, since Ashersky has already claimed #16.

[faust]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

Also please, enlighten us now so we can see just how great you are after the game is done and we can see the mod info.  Otherwise and until then, we can just ignore your statement as your ego talking.

I was not intending any of this as an indicator for my awesomeness, but rather as a rebuttal to shraeye's position that we can't know what the items do. It's enough to guess a single item right in order to that position to be disproven.

[2.71828.....]

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

It would. Which is why I took that option away from them

Did you...not want it just for the sake of it?

I mean, yeah. Of course. But that wasn't my only thought going for it

[faust]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

but his argument wasn't that he was amazing. he was countering shraeye's argument that anyone who claimed to have a good idea what any items did was "clairvoyant"

He was countering that by saying he had a good idea without being clairvoyant. But then his evidence was guessing 13 and knowing two items and then just assuming all of his guesses were correct?   And that is a sensible conclusion to draw?

Hey, I can name two states (regions?) of Germany correctly.  That means all the guesses I make for the other ones are definitely correct.

I wasn't assuming that I got all of them right, I am not suggesting that every item is guessable, I have never said what you put in my mouth.

[MiX]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

Also please, enlighten us now so we can see just how great you are after the game is done and we can see the mod info.  Otherwise and until then, we can just ignore your statement as your ego talking.

I was not intending any of this as an indicator for my awesomeness, but rather as a rebuttal to shraeye's position that we can't know what the items do. It's enough to guess a single item right in order to that position to be disproven.

Not really, because you probably picked the item that you were most confident in its ability. So there's some bias there.

[faust]

So, while I am still against the thought that round claim was a positive, since 13/16 already have, I'm no longer convinced that it's beneficial to hold on to it. So I'm willing to reveal - I was a 2nd rounder.

What changed your mind?

[faust]

Back to phone posting.

How is 2/13 in anyway indicative of your amazing powers of deduction regarding the mods’ flavor item definitions?  If 2/13 was really the basis for your statement, you were exaggerating at best and misleading at worst.  Either way, anti-town.

Also please, enlighten us now so we can see just how great you are after the game is done and we can see the mod info.  Otherwise and until then, we can just ignore your statement as your ego talking.

I was not intending any of this as an indicator for my awesomeness, but rather as a rebuttal to shraeye's position that we can't know what the items do. It's enough to guess a single item right in order to that position to be disproven.

Not really, because you probably picked the item that you were most confident in its ability. So there's some bias there.

Generally speaking it helps me more to go for an item that I'm not so sure what it does, because if I get it and get to know it then I have more information.

[cayvie]

i think this game in particular is proving to be a fascinating personality test.

[MiX]

i think this game in particular is proving to be a fascinating personality test.

Aren't they all?

[scolapasta]

So, while I am still against the thought that round claim was a positive, since 13/16 already have, I'm no longer convinced that it's beneficial to hold on to it. So I'm willing to reveal - I was a 2nd rounder.

What changed your mind?

Well, again not quite changed mind. I still maintain that round claim was more positive for scum than town, so would have preferred no claim at all. However, after 13 of 16 claimed (and knowing only one of the three left was 1st round), I do think the calculus changed and that it makes more sense for town to also get the info.

I also wanted people to know I wasn't #1. Knowing I'm a 2nd rounder is supporting evidence for that.

[2.71828.....]

We have heard a lot from a relatively few people it seems. Where is everyone else?

[WestCoastDidds]

I am #1.

That will be clear if you go back and read me asking MiX and Shraeye why they keep making assumptions about what #1 would do, when they would die, why they won't be killed N1. It is also clear because you know me and I am always town, so it makes sense that I'd be the towniest mctownerson to ever town.

Despite MiX's incredulity, I did not want to be Katniss, which is the best proof that I am town (although my guess is that he can toatlly see ME making that decision). A vig shot doesn't play to my skill set, so I was really pleased that e got it. Totally plays to his skill set.

[MiX]

I am #1.

That will be clear if you go back and read me asking MiX and Shraeye why they keep making assumptions about what #1 would do, when they would die, why they won't be killed N1. It is also clear because you know me and I am always town, so it makes sense that I'd be the towniest mctownerson to ever town.

Despite MiX's incredulity, I did not want to be Katniss, which is the best proof that I am town (although my guess is that he can toatlly see ME making that decision). A vig shot doesn't play to my skill set, so I was really pleased that e got it. Totally plays to his skill set.

I don't know why we were opposed to draft order, I'm sure we could've guessed this if (post restriction)

How much do you know about the flavor...actually don't answer. This is indeed good proof you're town.

[scolapasta]

I am #1.

That will be clear if you go back and read me asking MiX and Shraeye why they keep making assumptions about what #1 would do, when they would die, why they won't be killed N1. It is also clear because you know me and I am always town, so it makes sense that I'd be the towniest mctownerson to ever town.

Despite MiX's incredulity, I did not want to be Katniss, which is the best proof that I am town (although my guess is that he can toatlly see ME making that decision). A vig shot doesn't play to my skill set, so I was really pleased that e got it. Totally plays to his skill set.

I don't know why we were opposed to draft order, I'm sure we could've guessed this if (post restriction)

How much do you know about the flavor...actually don't answer. This is indeed good proof you're town.

Can someone explain why not wanting to be Katniss is proof of being town?

[MiX]

I am #1.

That will be clear if you go back and read me asking MiX and Shraeye why they keep making assumptions about what #1 would do, when they would die, why they won't be killed N1. It is also clear because you know me and I am always town, so it makes sense that I'd be the towniest mctownerson to ever town.

Despite MiX's incredulity, I did not want to be Katniss, which is the best proof that I am town (although my guess is that he can toatlly see ME making that decision). A vig shot doesn't play to my skill set, so I was really pleased that e got it. Totally plays to his skill set.

I don't know why we were opposed to draft order, I'm sure we could've guessed this if (post restriction)

How much do you know about the flavor...actually don't answer. This is indeed good proof you're town.

Can someone explain why not wanting to be Katniss is proof of being town?

Scum really likes vig. Other than that, no, it's not proof she's town. But it helps, I think.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't know why we were opposed to draft order, I'm sure we could've guessed this if (post restriction)

How much do you know about the flavor...actually don't answer. This is indeed good proof you're town.

Can someone explain why not wanting to be Katniss is proof of being town?
[/quote]

If I was scum, I wouldn't pass up a weapon like a bow and arrow.

[WestCoastDidds]

Now, why Shraye is so sure that #1 would not be nightkilled right off the bat is still something we need to sort out.

[scolapasta]

Can someone explain why not wanting to be Katniss is proof of being town?

If I was scum, I wouldn't pass up a weapon like a bow and arrow.

OK, that makes sense. Though if you thought #2 would also try for bow and arrow - which in fact is what happened (or at least what e is claiming) - you might have chosen something else so as to not get shut out.

OR you wanted to be able to say that you didn't pick bow and arrow so that we would think you less likely to be scum.

(all this feels very "princess bride")

All that said, you're still on my current shortlist for being town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Can someone explain why not wanting to be Katniss is proof of being town?

If I was scum, I wouldn't pass up a weapon like a bow and arrow.

OK, that makes sense. Though if you thought #2 would also try for bow and arrow - which in fact is what happened (or at least what e is claiming) - you might have chosen something else so as to not get shut out.

OR you wanted to be able to say that you didn't pick bow and arrow so that we would think you less likely to be scum.

(all this feels very "princess bride")

All that said, you're still on my current shortlist for being town.

We have a name for the princess bride feeling...WIFOM which stands for Wine In Front Of Me. 

[shraeye]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

I fully believe e.  100%

[faust]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

I fully believe e.  100%

You believe that he's a vig or that he's town?

[cayvie]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

I fully believe e.  100%

is it, in your opinion, a good idea to continue claiming?

are you still certain that #1 won't be nightkilled?

[cayvie]

If I was scum, I wouldn't pass up a weapon like a bow and arrow.

i mean maybe you picked a weapon like trident or nightlock berries instead. there wasn't a shortage of weapons to choose from

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.4:


E! (3): faust, Cayvie, Mail-Mi
Ashersky (2): EFHW, Glooble
LaLight (2): E!, WCD
EFHW (2): ADK, MiX
Shraeye (2): Scolapasta, RaptorSlayer
faust (1): Ashersky
Scolapasta (1): Shraeye
RaptorSlayer (1): LaLight
Mail-Mi (1): Jimmm


Not Voting (1):  Lekkit,


Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.

[cayvie]

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

[mail-mi]

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

why wcd?

[LaLight]

vote: ash until he comes to our QT

[A Drowned Kernel]

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

why wcd?

I'm actually curious about this as well; I have the benefit of seeing how she's been posting in our district QT but she's pretty much my top townread right now

[cayvie]

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

why wcd?

I'm actually curious about this as well; I have the benefit of seeing how she's been posting in our district QT but she's pretty much my top townread right now

This actually makes me feel better about her actually.

Because I'm used to (after two games) wcd just filling the thread with townie stuff. And she's not doing that here.

But if she's filling her qt with townie stuff instead, that could explain the difference

[mail-mi]

i currently have many townreads but not very many scumreads. I need to do a reread, which I hope I can get to tonight or tomorrow.

[scolapasta]

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

So... my list is almost opposite of yours!

Preferred lynches: faust, shraeye,, ash, lalight, mail-mi, mix
Neutral-ish: lekkit, glooble, e, adk, raptor
Would rather not lynch:, wcd, EFHW, cayvie, jimmm
Will not lynch: scolapasta

I don't specifically remember what made me put lalight, mail-mi, mix in the first group, so they might be more neutral.

Also interesting to note that my Would rather not lynch is all people I've played codenames with. Hmm....

[ashersky]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

The post in question.  You said you made guesses and 13 items. You said you weren’t very far off based on what you knew at the time of posting.

I am not putting words in your mouth.  You are saying in the post above that you made guesses and then you were not “very far off” on those 13 guesses. That is what your sentences say.  Another way of saying not very far off would be “pretty close” right?

So then your explanation for how you were able to be pretty close on 13 guesses was saying you knew two items.

I am saying that is weaksauce.  How does knowing two items tell you that you were not “very far off” on 13? 

I did not put words in your mouth.  And how does this counter shraeye?  It makes his point — you can’t know for sure what any items are before getting them.  To counter that point, you need to show that players did or do know what all the items are without gaining them. I thought you were doing that by claiming to know 13 items somehow based on guesses.  The only way that works is clairvoyance, hyper intelligence, hacking, or cheating.  Or you have a greater number of data points due to your alignment or role.

So, as I’ve established not putting words in your mouth, please explain how you were so close on exactly 13, items, why only 13 and not 20, and who your scum partners are.

And no, my district mate told me his item is not an explanation for anything.  Nor is your own item, as that only confirms one out of the 13 that you clearly claim you were very close on. Please tell us how you know all 13 are very close.

[WestCoastDidds]

This actually makes me feel better about her actually.

Because I'm used to (after two games) wcd just filling the thread with townie stuff. And she's not doing that here.

But if she's filling her qt with townie stuff instead, that could explain the difference

I’m trying not to spam the thread since the game is so big and I don’t want to be annoying! Well, and there is a whole lot of nothing going on in my world right now. ADK I gets way more of the random musing in the QT. Left to my own devices, I have all kinds of questions for everyone about how they are holding up, but I don’t want to make life harder for anyone who is struggling right now. Also, funny Ashersky is awesome. I had no idea he had it in him.

[Glooble]

I think faust's post wasn't worded very well. In our QT, after the item list was posted, he guessed at 13 out of the 20. Then, when we both got our items, two of his guesses were proven more or less right.

I can see the case for this being a scumslip, but I don't think faust makes that scumslip. I think this is a case of unfortunate wording.

[scolapasta]

Vote: Ashersky

I'm not taking Shraeye completely off the hook, but my main suspicion of them is trying to not understanding why they would accuse me and seemingly misrepresent our QT conversations.

But I don't buy Ashersky's conflict with faust - the argument that from the name of an item you can make an educated guess on what it does is reasonable. Having just one item confirmed is solid evidence for that argument. Besides, no one seemed to have any issue with people suggesting that Bow and Arrow was likely vig.

[Jimmmmm]

This game feels like such a mess to me. The problem with Day 1 claiming is that inevitably not everyone trusts or believes those that say "Let's massclaim", and we get pages and pages of non-alignment-indicative discussions on plans and subplans and setup speculation. If everyone agreed and we just got whatever done then that would be one thing, but that just doesn't happen.

I am inclined to trust e. I think it's pretty likely that items which give roles such as Vig and Doctor would give something else if picked up by scum. So while it's possible that e is scum and will try to use his Vig claim to cover a scum kill, such a move will definitely draw suspicion and it's highly possible that his role will be semi-confirmed.

[MiX]

This game feels like such a mess to me. The problem with Day 1 claiming is that inevitably not everyone trusts or believes those that say "Let's massclaim", and we get pages and pages of non-alignment-indicative discussions on plans and subplans and setup speculation. If everyone agreed and we just got whatever done then that would be one thing, but that just doesn't happen.

I am inclined to trust e. I think it's pretty likely that items which give roles such as Vig and Doctor would give something else if picked up by scum. So while it's possible that e is scum and will try to use his Vig claim to cover a scum kill, such a move will definitely draw suspicion and it's highly possible that his role will be semi-confirmed.

Hmm what? 1-shot Vig isn't too good for scum to have, it's their just reward for being high on the draft order.

[Jimmmmm]

1-shot Vig isn't too good for scum to have

I'm not sure that I agree with that and I think it's very likely that at least some items have different effects for Town and scum.

[MiX]

1-shot Vig isn't too good for scum to have

I'm not sure that I agree with that and I think it's very likely that at least some items have different effects for Town and scum.

Yes, but I don't think vig is one of them.

[ashersky]

But I don't buy Ashersky's conflict with faust - the argument that from the name of an item you can make an educated guess on what it does is reasonable. Having just one item confirmed is solid evidence for that argument. Besides, no one seemed to have any issue with people suggesting that Bow and Arrow was likely vig.

What do you mean by not "buying" my conflict?  Do you mean that I am faking the fight with faust (which would make us partners)?  Are you saying you don't agree with my side of the argument?  Please clarify.

You say "having just one item confirmed is solid evidence for that argument."  Is that your honest belief in how the world work?  Here:

"Slamming my head on a keyboard is an efficient way to write out genetic code."

cfklxzklcx.cx,/l;ssdl;kkl;dlskr;eior5opK4['wrIOWEF'a;u/kls;aior'q'.lcx,cxkdxlop.vg;lp.cjmjxkkdkslo;.pxl;.jkchjcxvhjkvjucfjsdlo.zsl.djumdweidiofp/womjm fiuexol.;wik,dkuedxku,edxlfcku,ifggciufxudki,fcj,fcxhmdzjmufxku,fckfdxjdxzj,dxkifxck,udryehdxzk,fclifc,kfdxdj

Hey look, there's at least one instance of consecutive letters that correspond to the way we write out genetic code in there.  Looks like we have "one item confirmed" that "is solid evidence for that argument."

[cayvie]

This game feels like such a mess to me. The problem with Day 1 claiming is that inevitably not everyone trusts or believes those that say "Let's massclaim", and we get pages and pages of non-alignment-indicative discussions on plans and subplans and setup speculation. If everyone agreed and we just got whatever done then that would be one thing, but that just doesn't happen.

I am inclined to trust e. I think it's pretty likely that items which give roles such as Vig and Doctor would give something else if picked up by scum. So while it's possible that e is scum and will try to use his Vig claim to cover a scum kill, such a move will definitely draw suspicion and it's highly possible that his role will be semi-confirmed.

Do you buy ADK's claim of being town and getting a role that's only useful for scum?

[ashersky]

1-shot Vig isn't too good for scum to have

I'm not sure that I agree with that and I think it's very likely that at least some items have different effects for Town and scum.

1-Shot Vig is awesome for scum to have.  Any extra kills are awesome for a faction that literally wants to kill.  They can't accidentally kill their own faction, either.  Jimmmmm is correct here, MiX is incorrect, on that point.

I disagree that items change depending on the alignment of the player who gets it.  That just seems to go against the whole idea of a draft, doesn't it?  In other drafting setups, isn't the whole thing centered around providing powers based on the draft?  If they are tailored to alignment, that removes the point of a draft.

I think instead, the powers are weakened overall to ensure that as little imbalance as possible based on powers drafted.  One way they did that was by using flavor items instead of the powers themselves.  Other ways include weak versions (1-shot vs full, psychologist vs. cop, etc.).  Obviously we can't know what they did, but that's my guess on how to try to balance the draft system.

[ashersky]

This game feels like such a mess to me. The problem with Day 1 claiming is that inevitably not everyone trusts or believes those that say "Let's massclaim", and we get pages and pages of non-alignment-indicative discussions on plans and subplans and setup speculation. If everyone agreed and we just got whatever done then that would be one thing, but that just doesn't happen.

I am inclined to trust e. I think it's pretty likely that items which give roles such as Vig and Doctor would give something else if picked up by scum. So while it's possible that e is scum and will try to use his Vig claim to cover a scum kill, such a move will definitely draw suspicion and it's highly possible that his role will be semi-confirmed.

Do you buy ADK's claim of being town and getting a role that's only useful for scum?

You aren't asking me, but I have an opinion.

I do buy it -- it doesn't serve much purpose except to help town, right?  Scum doesn't like to make that claim as it 1) draws attention to themselves and 2) gives town info they might not have had.

Yes, the flipside is trying to cover for a scummy action -- but it seems early to try to cover for a scummy action that he hasn't taken yet and would still need to be caught taking, which would necessitate a power that could catch him and target him.  So overall, it seems it being an honest claim is the most likely situation.

Plus I usually just trust ADK for meta-reasons.

[cayvie]

But I don't buy Ashersky's conflict with faust - the argument that from the name of an item you can make an educated guess on what it does is reasonable. Having just one item confirmed is solid evidence for that argument. Besides, no one seemed to have any issue with people suggesting that Bow and Arrow was likely vig.

What do you mean by not "buying" my conflict?  Do you mean that I am faking the fight with faust (which would make us partners)?  Are you saying you don't agree with my side of the argument?  Please clarify.

You say "having just one item confirmed is solid evidence for that argument."  Is that your honest belief in how the world work?  Here:

"Slamming my head on a keyboard is an efficient way to write out genetic code."

cfklxzklcx.cx,/l;ssdl;kkl;dlskr;eior5opK4['wrIOWEF'a;u/kls;aior'q'.lcx,cxkdxlop.vg;lp.cjmjxkkdkslo;.pxl;.jkchjcxvhjkvjucfjsdlo.zsl.djumdweidiofp/womjm fiuexol.;wik,dkuedxku,edxlfcku,ifggciufxudki,fcj,fcxhmdzjmufxku,fckfdxjdxzj,dxkifxck,udryehdxzk,fclifc,kfdxdj

Hey look, there's at least one instance of consecutive letters that correspond to the way we write out genetic code in there.  Looks like we have "one item confirmed" that "is solid evidence for that argument."

It's a lot closer to shraeye saying "this deck of cards isn't marked"

And then Faust making predictions as to what 13 of the cards are, face down

Then flipping two over and being right on both of them

[ashersky]

It's a lot closer to shraeye saying "this deck of cards isn't marked"

And then Faust making predictions as to what 13 of the cards are, face down

Then flipping two over and being right on both of them

Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11?  Or that the deck is marked?  Or could faust have just been lucky?  I am continually waiting for some explanation or proof how faust knows his 13 guesses are all very nearly perfect.

I mean, as he refuses to confirm his clairvoyance in thread, I hope there's a time-stamped QT post we can check after the game to see.  I wonder if bow/arrow was on his guess list and he said "1-Shot Vigilante" in it.  I wonder if he guessed my item, and how in the world he could have gotten it right given what I know about it.

Does he also know the character that go with each one?  What you had for breakfast today?  Whether Disney will make Frozen 3?

[Jimmmmm]

This game feels like such a mess to me. The problem with Day 1 claiming is that inevitably not everyone trusts or believes those that say "Let's massclaim", and we get pages and pages of non-alignment-indicative discussions on plans and subplans and setup speculation. If everyone agreed and we just got whatever done then that would be one thing, but that just doesn't happen.

I am inclined to trust e. I think it's pretty likely that items which give roles such as Vig and Doctor would give something else if picked up by scum. So while it's possible that e is scum and will try to use his Vig claim to cover a scum kill, such a move will definitely draw suspicion and it's highly possible that his role will be semi-confirmed.

Do you buy ADK's claim of being town and getting a role that's only useful for scum?

Hmm, I missed that. Maybe they are alignment-independent (if ADK is Town).

I will make the point that if I was #1 I would not have taken the Bow and Arrow because it wouldn't've occurred to me that it could give scum an extra kill.

[ashersky]

Magicians know what card an audience member picked all the time.  That's not magic, that's a trick.  Some might call it cheating.

faust is claiming to know the unknowable, but refuses to share his trick.  Do we accept he's the only real magician in the world, or decide that he's cheating somehow, or perhaps he's just lying?

[ashersky]

I will make the point that if I was #1 I would not have taken the Bow and Arrow because it wouldn't've occurred to me that it could give scum an extra kill.

Regardless of your draft position, did you know that the bow and arrow was a 1-Shot Vigilante?

[cayvie]

Magicians know what card an audience member picked all the time.  That's not magic, that's a trick.  Some might call it cheating.

faust is claiming to know the unknowable, but refuses to share his trick.  Do we accept he's the only real magician in the world, or decide that he's cheating somehow, or perhaps he's just lying?

I feel like this is some personal thing between you and Faust at this point tbh, and I'm gonna step back

[ashersky]

Magicians know what card an audience member picked all the time.  That's not magic, that's a trick.  Some might call it cheating.

faust is claiming to know the unknowable, but refuses to share his trick.  Do we accept he's the only real magician in the world, or decide that he's cheating somehow, or perhaps he's just lying?

I feel like this is some personal thing between you and Faust at this point tbh, and I'm gonna step back

It's not.  It's mafia.

If I say I wrote down guesses for every player's alignment, and on D2, we have two flips and they match what I wrote down.  Can I then claim to be the authority on all player alignments?

That's another analogy to faust's unknowable knowledge of all-knowing power.  Here's the formula: take any set of unknown data, write down guesses for most or all of said data, reveal only TWO of the original data set that matches any two of the guesses, gain Thanos-level power over the universe.

I'm just calling it out, even if it is seems like I a futile effort.

[Jimmmmm]

Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11?  Or that the deck is marked?  Or could faust have just been lucky?  I am continually waiting for some explanation or proof how faust knows his 13 guesses are all very nearly perfect.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that "Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11".
Hypothesis: The mods generally tried to align the flavour and mechanics of the items.
Result: 2 items have mechanics in line with their flavour.
Conclusion: The hypothesis is very likely correct.

Obviously any two people could have different ideas how of what an item should do, but given that 2/2 items match, it's very likely that the mods in fact did try to do this.

[ashersky]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

For the apologists who claim I'm just misunderstanding his wording...the statement in full, explained with color-coding:

"I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now."

In all cases, the "I" in that sentence refers to faust.
Per the statement:
--faust made 13 guesses
--faust made those guesses prior to drafting
--his qualitative statement regarding those guesses is based off of the cumulative knowledge he has gain up to the point of posting that statement
--his guesses were not very far off, where I posit "very far off" would mean "very inaccurate"

If faust wants to retcon an "ash just can't understand" explanation into this, his only real leg to stand on is to argue that "not very far off" meant "not very inaccurate" which can technically be taken to mean just "inaccurate" as oppose to "very inaccurate."  However, given he was using this statement to counter the argument that the items cannot be known in advance, that would seem disingenuous to me.

[ashersky]

Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11?  Or that the deck is marked?  Or could faust have just been lucky?  I am continually waiting for some explanation or proof how faust knows his 13 guesses are all very nearly perfect.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that "Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11".
Hypothesis: The mods generally tried to align the flavour and mechanics of the items.
Result: 2 items have mechanics in line with their flavour.
Conclusion: The hypothesis is very likely correct.

Obviously any two people could have different ideas how of what an item should do, but given that 2/2 items match, it's very likely that the mods in fact did try to do this.

Is 2 out of 13 of a set of 20 a generally accepted scientific standard to prove a hypothesis?  Like, "hey, this medicine worked on 2 out of 13 people, must work for all!"?

I really don't know, as I'm no scientist.  But seems suspect.

Also, as I have said multiple times, my item directly contradicts faust's hypothesis.

[Jimmmmm]

Regardless of your draft position, did you know that the bow and arrow was a 1-Shot Vigilante?

Of course not, but it seemed very likely to be a Vig of some sort, and what do you know it is (subject to trusting e's claim of course).

[EFHW]

The faust issue is much ado about nothing, I think. Tomorrow I'm going to look for some new angles.

[Jimmmmm]

Is 2 out of 13 of a set of 20 a generally accepted scientific standard to prove a hypothesis?  Like, "hey, this medicine worked on 2 out of 13 people, must work for all!"?

I really don't know, as I'm no scientist.  But seems suspect.

Also, as I have said multiple times, my item directly contradicts faust's hypothesis.

This isn't science. This is game. Designed by a person/people who have somewhat similar experiences with Mafia to the people playing. The items were very likely created with ideas of how they would be interpreted in mind (because you should keep these things in mind when designing a game). Maybe they deliberately made some items with unexpected effects. Maybe some items have unexpected effects because they couldn't think of what else to use or because people have different expectations. But the fact remains that we seem to have evidence to suggest that the mods generally tried to create items whose effects match their flavour.

[ashersky]

Flavor:
1. Flavor will be based on the Hunger Games series. It spans over all three of the books.
2. The game has been set up to openly remove flavor as a factor in game solving, decisions, etc. Though, if you know the story, you'll get some kicks out of the flavor

Per the mods themselves, flavor cannot be used in game solving and is not a factor in decisions.  We made a decision when we chose items, therefore the flavor could not have been a factor.  And now we are trying to solve the game in part by using the flavor of items, which again, is not important.

I would think that means that either faust is lying or the mods lied.

(In actually, I don't think that's particularly required to be true.  The mods did not lie, but I believe as a mod it is impossible to design a game around a flavor without that flavor impacting the game itself.  I assume our mods really like the flavor, so of course the set-up, the items, etc. will be infused with the flavor.  Consciously or unconsciously, the mods did allow flavor to impact game decisions and possible solving.  That is not a fault or a complaint, just my opinion.  It just makes for difficult reconciliations.

Mockingjay was something that was in the item list.  That means something specific to people who know the flavor, but not to others.  If whatever the Mockingjay thing is relates in anyway to flavor, the people choosing with knowledge were advantaged over those who didn't.

And faust's claim that he was able to figure out the items is just confirmation of that.)

Hey mods -- I'm really sorry, but it appears I hit the modify button instead of the quote button on Post #2.  I hope you have it saved somewhere?  Or someone happens to have that page open somewhere?  I don't know if it is reversible.

[ashersky]

Just to make it stand out -- I accidentally modified the second post of the game (the one with rules in it) by clicking the wrong option on the post when I went to quote it.

Do you have those rules saved somewhere?  I hope you do, and you can just re-copy over my mistake.

Sincerest apologies.

[ashersky]

I realize I also inadvertently broke Standard Rule #7.  I apologize for that, and accept any punishment that comes my way.

[ashersky]

And here's how that post was supposed to post.

Flavor:
1. Flavor will be based on the Hunger Games series. It spans over all three of the books.
2. The game has been set up to openly remove flavor as a factor in game solving, decisions, etc. Though, if you know the story, you'll get some kicks out of the flavor

Per the mods themselves, flavor cannot be used in game solving and is not a factor in decisions.  We made a decision when we chose items, therefore the flavor could not have been a factor.  And now we are trying to solve the game in part by using the flavor of items, which again, is not important.

I would think that means that either faust is lying or the mods lied.

(In actually, I don't think that's particularly required to be true.  The mods did not lie, but I believe as a mod it is impossible to design a game around a flavor without that flavor impacting the game itself.  I assume our mods really like the flavor, so of course the set-up, the items, etc. will be infused with the flavor.  Consciously or unconsciously, the mods did allow flavor to impact game decisions and possible solving.  That is not a fault or a complaint, just my opinion.  It just makes for difficult reconciliations.

Mockingjay was something that was in the item list.  That means something specific to people who know the flavor, but not to others.  If whatever the Mockingjay thing is relates in anyway to flavor, the people choosing with knowledge were advantaged over those who didn't.

And faust's claim that he was able to figure out the items is just confirmation of that.)

[Jimmmmm]

Just to make it stand out -- I accidentally modified the second post of the game (the one with rules in it) by clicking the wrong option on the post when I went to quote it.

Do you have those rules saved somewhere?  I hope you do, and you can just re-copy over my mistake.

Sincerest apologies.

Bahahaha!

[scolapasta]

Just to make it stand out -- I accidentally modified the second post of the game (the one with rules in it) by clicking the wrong option on the post when I went to quote it.

Do you have those rules saved somewhere?  I hope you do, and you can just re-copy over my mistake.

Sincerest apologies.

I have a copy, if needed, but as an image, not text. (I had it in a browser tab and have an extension that "hibernates" the page and takes a screen shot. If you need it, let me know)

[ashersky]

Is 2 out of 13 of a set of 20 a generally accepted scientific standard to prove a hypothesis?  Like, "hey, this medicine worked on 2 out of 13 people, must work for all!"?

I really don't know, as I'm no scientist.  But seems suspect.

Also, as I have said multiple times, my item directly contradicts faust's hypothesis.

This isn't science. This is game. Designed by a person/people who have somewhat similar experiences with Mafia to the people playing. The items were very likely created with ideas of how they would be interpreted in mind (because you should keep these things in mind when designing a game). Maybe they deliberately made some items with unexpected effects. Maybe some items have unexpected effects because they couldn't think of what else to use or because people have different expectations. But the fact remains that we seem to have evidence to suggest that the mods generally tried to create items whose effects match their flavour.

Well, see my epic posting fail for why I see that as an issue.

My main point, though, which no one seems to focus on, is that faust is scummy for trying to get the entire population to believe one thing based on what I think is flimsy evidence, and his only expansion on his reasoning up to this point has been to say his and his district partner's items matched his guesses.

All he had to do was walk back his confidence level on his assumption, or admit that maybe his post was a bit exaggerated, or say stuff like "we seem to have evidence to suggest that the mods generally tried to create items who effect match their flavour" instead.

[ashersky]

Just to make it stand out -- I accidentally modified the second post of the game (the one with rules in it) by clicking the wrong option on the post when I went to quote it.

Do you have those rules saved somewhere?  I hope you do, and you can just re-copy over my mistake.

Sincerest apologies.

I have a copy, if needed, but as an image, not text. (I had it in a browser tab and have an extension that "hibernates" the page and takes a screen shot. If you need it, let me know)

Nice!  Definitely save that until the mods respond.

[Jimmmmm]

I think you have a really good point actually. Unless the mods completely randomised the items and Bow and Arrow just happened to land on Vig, and the other ones that faust knows just happened to land on the ones that made sense to him, it's not true that knowing the flavour is completely unhelpful. Obviously basically everyone knows what a bow and arrow is, but those that don't know the flavour surely have less idea what jewelry or a rose might do because they don't know how these things were used in the story.

I suspect that by flavour they were referring to flavour texts and the point is you shouldn't feel obligated to read that text.

I think we can conclude that there is a (likely quite substantial) subset of the items for which the flavour helps inform the function, but that doesn't necessarily hold true for every single item.

[scolapasta]

Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11?  Or that the deck is marked?  Or could faust have just been lucky?  I am continually waiting for some explanation or proof how faust knows his 13 guesses are all very nearly perfect.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that "Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11".
Hypothesis: The mods generally tried to align the flavour and mechanics of the items.
Result: 2 items have mechanics in line with their flavour.
Conclusion: The hypothesis is very likely correct.

Obviously any two people could have different ideas how of what an item should do, but given that 2/2 items match, it's very likely that the mods in fact did try to do this.

And now back to the debate!

When you've quoted faust, you've left out a key part of what he said:"As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye"

I don't think faust was claiming that all 13 objects he guessed where correct (even if her were scum, how would he be able to confirm 13?), just that, as Jimmmmm captures above, it is possible to have a guess based on item name. i.e. that knowing someone's item can give you some idea of their role.

And my "not buying it" is that it feels like you are deliberately taking faust out of that context, in order to create chaos and suspicion.

[Jimmmmm]

My main point, though, which no one seems to focus on, is that faust is scummy for trying to get the entire population to believe one thing based on what I think is flimsy evidence, and his only expansion on his reasoning up to this point has been to say his and his district partner's items matched his guesses.

This is what faust said:

PUBLIC POLL:
Which is more powerful "Mockingjay pin" or "Trident"?   Which one would go earlier in the draft order? Does your answer change now that we know LaLight is high up? Which one is scum most scared of?  If you can answer ANY of these questions then congrats, you're clairvoyant and it probably isn't fair for you to play this game in the first place.

Well, I'm pretty sure that the Bandages are some kind of Doctor variant and scum want to kill whoever has them.

And if you're working with the assumption that the items are inherently unknowable, then I also don't see how all this claiming business is supposed to help us.

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

Okay so the base question was: Do people higher in the draft order likely have generally better items? shraeye seemed to make the point that there are some items which seem really ambiguous (I have no idea what a mockingjay pin might do). But this does not imply that none of the items are guessable (at least the general idea of them). faust made the point that items that seem guessable probably are. Bow and Arrow seems to have to do with killing. Bandages seems to have to do with protecting. There are a number that seem to have to do with investigating. If faust was right about some, then it's highly likely that he was right about others, and also that those high in the draft order guessed correctly (albeit roughly) what some of the items do and also highly likely that scum is able to guess what some of the items do.

[ashersky]

I mean, is the argument between “inherently unknowable” (shraeye) and “inherently knowable” (faust)?

Seems to me a more nuanced answer in the middle is likely.  It’s not like Trident awarded someone with Congrats, you are Tridely, the Trident-Wielder; at night you may stab someone with your trident.

Maybe trident is a lightning rod, maybe it is of decorative use, maybe it is huge and you can hide behind it. 

Was one of my guesses right?  Possible.  Does that make the items “inherently knowable”?  No. That just makes me lucky. (Or familiar with flavor.)

The Jimmmmm explanations are much more believable to me than the faust one, and is closer to correct in my opinion than the shraeye one. 

[shraeye]

I think we can conclude that there is a (likely quite substantial) subset of the items for which the flavour helps inform the function, but that doesn't necessarily hold true for every single item.

It's insane to think that it was totally randomized.  And it's insane to think that any player can 100% guess everything at this point.  My contention is that WE DO NOT KNOW what #1 drafted.  Mix apparently thinks he does.  I get the impression that other people think so as well.  Or at least think that "earlier drafting = more powerful item". 

The subset of "early drafters" might very well have overall more powerful items, but I don't understand how in the face of so much uncertainty (item-meaning, possibly getting blocked from your first choice, and what powers each player ranks as "best") people are still worried that revealing the draft order will give scum an advantage.

That's the point I was trying to make, and apparently it's turned into a totally irrelevant philosophical crisis.

[shraeye]

What I do not know, despite the mod's answers and looking at people interpreting those posts is:

Exactly when would the badguy QT have opened?

Unless I'm reading wrong (likely), I have seen multiple answers to this so wanted to know what page I should be operating from.

[shraeye]

I mean, is the argument between “inherently unknowable” (shraeye) and “inherently knowable” (faust)?

Seems to me a more nuanced answer in the middle is likely.  It’s not like Trident awarded someone with Congrats, you are Tridely, the Trident-Wielder; at night you may stab someone with your trident.

Maybe trident is a lightning rod, maybe it is of decorative use, maybe it is huge and you can hide behind it. 

Was one of my guesses right?  Possible.  Does that make the items “inherently knowable”?  No. That just makes me lucky. (Or familiar with flavor.)

The Jimmmmm explanations are much more believable to me than the faust one, and is closer to correct in my opinion than the shraeye one.

All of the who's right / who's wrong aside....

who is scummy, ash?

[shraeye]

i currently have many townreads but not very many scumreads. I need to do a reread, which I hope I can get to tonight or tomorrow.

Give me your gut reaction on the scum-radar.  I don't care if you can't back itup.

[shraeye]

We have heard a lot from a relatively few people it seems. Where is everyone else?

Can you give me a breakdown on who's said "a lot" and who's said "a little"?

Does content matter in your assessment, or does ash get points for each and every "talk with faust about knowability" post?

[shraeye]

And the role conveniently provides a cover for when you're caught killing someone.

I fully believe e.  100%

You believe that he's a vig or that he's town?

All the above.

[shraeye]

Also. I want to know why people are jumping on the Scola wagon.

You think they shouldn't have?

[shraeye]

I guess that kind of got answered, but also not really

I'm feeling vote: mail-mi

Compared to how much you were feeling mail-mi then, how much are you feeling mail-mi now? 

[shraeye]

wow this thread is moving fast! im trying to keep up lol

Still lost?  What sticks out?

[ashersky]

I mean, is the argument between “inherently unknowable” (shraeye) and “inherently knowable” (faust)?

Seems to me a more nuanced answer in the middle is likely.  It’s not like Trident awarded someone with Congrats, you are Tridely, the Trident-Wielder; at night you may stab someone with your trident.

Maybe trident is a lightning rod, maybe it is of decorative use, maybe it is huge and you can hide behind it. 

Was one of my guesses right?  Possible.  Does that make the items “inherently knowable”?  No. That just makes me lucky. (Or familiar with flavor.)

The Jimmmmm explanations are much more believable to me than the faust one, and is closer to correct in my opinion than the shraeye one.

All of the who's right / who's wrong aside....

who is scummy, ash?

Between you guys, faust is scummy.

[Swowl]

What I do not know, despite the mod's answers and looking at people interpreting those posts is:

Exactly when would the badguy QT have opened?

Unless I'm reading wrong (likely), I have seen multiple answers to this so wanted to know what page I should be operating from.

Every QT that was not district QTs, were opened for the first time at the beginning of Drafting Phase 1. This was included in the OP.

[Swowl]

Just to make it stand out -- I accidentally modified the second post of the game (the one with rules in it) by clicking the wrong option on the post when I went to quote it.

Do you have those rules saved somewhere?  I hope you do, and you can just re-copy over my mistake.

Sincerest apologies.

Shit happens. We will re-do the post. Thanks for the heads up.

[Swowl]

I realize I also inadvertently broke Standard Rule #7.  I apologize for that, and accept any punishment that comes my way.

There will be no punitive action for this. We accept it as an accident.

[ashersky]

Thank you all for your understanding.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.5:


Ashersky (4): EFHW, Glooble, LaLight, scolapasta
E! (3): faust, Cayvie, Mail-Mi
LaLight (2): E!, WCD
EFHW (2): ADK, MiX
Shraeye (1): RaptorSlayer
faust (1): Ashersky
Scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Mail-Mi (1): Jimmm


Not Voting (1):  Lekkit,


Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.

[ashersky]

Time for a popsquiz!

Ordered as DS (Definitely Scum) to OMDB (Over My Dead Body):

faust
mail-mi
Raptor
Glooble
EFHW
MiX
Lekkit
scola
Lalight
WCD
cayvie
shraeye
No Lynch
ADK
ash
Jimmmmm
2.7

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.5:


Ashersky (4): EFHW, Glooble, LaLight, scolapasta
E! (3): faust, Cayvie, Mail-Mi
LaLight (2): E!, WCD
EFHW (2): ADK, MiX
Shraeye (1): RaptorSlayer
faust (1): Ashersky
Scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Mail-Mi (1): Jimmm


Not Voting (1):  Lekkit,


Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.

Assuming 9 to lynch?

[cayvie]

vote: scolapasta

Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11?  Or that the deck is marked?  Or could faust have just been lucky?  I am continually waiting for some explanation or proof how faust knows his 13 guesses are all very nearly perfect.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that "Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11".
Hypothesis: The mods generally tried to align the flavour and mechanics of the items.
Result: 2 items have mechanics in line with their flavour.
Conclusion: The hypothesis is very likely correct.

Obviously any two people could have different ideas how of what an item should do, but given that 2/2 items match, it's very likely that the mods in fact did try to do this.

And now back to the debate!

When you've quoted faust, you've left out a key part of what he said:"As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye"

I don't think faust was claiming that all 13 objects he guessed where correct (even if her were scum, how would he be able to confirm 13?), just that, as Jimmmmm captures above, it is possible to have a guess based on item name. i.e. that knowing someone's item can give you some idea of their role.

And my "not buying it" is that it feels like you are deliberately taking faust out of that context, in order to create chaos and suspicion.

to me, in the context of his other posts, this post reads as full of relief that he gets to weigh in on the correct (sorry Ash) side of an argument with gusto. it's stressful pretending to scumhunt! what a blessing to see a townie being logically wrong and to be able to argue against him!

[LaLight]

unvote, ash came to our qt

this whole clairvoyance argument is super weird, i feel like it some meta argument, or overly sarcastic, and i don't know what is going on

I don't want to lynch e, his move is very pro-town

I don't want to lynch ash as of now

vote: mail-mi

[faust]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

The post in question.  You said you made guesses and 13 items. You said you weren’t very far off based on what you knew at the time of posting.

I am not putting words in your mouth.  You are saying in the post above that you made guesses and then you were not “very far off” on those 13 guesses. That is what your sentences say.  Another way of saying not very far off would be “pretty close” right?

So then your explanation for how you were able to be pretty close on 13 guesses was saying you knew two items.

I am saying that is weaksauce.  How does knowing two items tell you that you were not “very far off” on 13? 

I did not put words in your mouth.  And how does this counter shraeye?  It makes his point — you can’t know for sure what any items are before getting them.  To counter that point, you need to show that players did or do know what all the items are without gaining them. I thought you were doing that by claiming to know 13 items somehow based on guesses.  The only way that works is clairvoyance, hyper intelligence, hacking, or cheating.  Or you have a greater number of data points due to your alignment or role.

So, as I’ve established not putting words in your mouth, please explain how you were so close on exactly 13, items, why only 13 and not 20, and who your scum partners are.

And no, my district mate told me his item is not an explanation for anything.  Nor is your own item, as that only confirms one out of the 13 that you clearly claim you were very close on. Please tell us how you know all 13 are very close.

I know that there is always a disconnect when I try to talk to you about probability so I won't try to argue how being right about two randomly chosen things is evidence that the rest are correct. You seem to be making the argument that I am scum and thus I actually knew the more items were correct, and I scumslipped. But by your own logic, knowing 5 also wouldn't tell me anything about the others, so I still couldn't know that all 13 were correct.

[faust]

What you had for breakfast today?  Whether Disney will make Frozen 3?

Scrambled eggs with toast. Yes, but it will be a live action remake.

[faust]

I mean, as he refuses to confirm his clairvoyance in thread, I hope there's a time-stamped QT post we can check after the game to see.  I wonder if bow/arrow was on his guess list and he said "1-Shot Vigilante" in it.  I wonder if he guessed my item, and how in the world he could have gotten it right given what I know about it.

If this isn't proof that our disagreement has nothing to do with my alignment, I don't know what is. You are looking to resolve this conflict after the game; if this were about my alignment, it would no longer be relevant after the game.

[faust]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

For the apologists who claim I'm just misunderstanding his wording...the statement in full, explained with color-coding:

"I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now."

In all cases, the "I" in that sentence refers to faust.
Per the statement:
--faust made 13 guesses
--faust made those guesses prior to drafting
--his qualitative statement regarding those guesses is based off of the cumulative knowledge he has gain up to the point of posting that statement
--his guesses were not very far off, where I posit "very far off" would mean "very inaccurate"

If faust wants to retcon an "ash just can't understand" explanation into this, his only real leg to stand on is to argue that "not very far off" meant "not very inaccurate" which can technically be taken to mean just "inaccurate" as oppose to "very inaccurate."  However, given he was using this statement to counter the argument that the items cannot be known in advance, that would seem disingenuous to me.

I wrote "based on what I know now". I knew what 2 of the items of the items did. They roughly matched what I imagined. Based on this being all information available to you, if you had to make a guess whether another item was also close to what I predicted, what would it be?

[faust]

Is 2 out of 13 of a set of 20 a generally accepted scientific standard to prove a hypothesis?  Like, "hey, this medicine worked on 2 out of 13 people, must work for all!"?

I really don't know, as I'm no scientist.  But seems suspect.

No, clearly every medicine is tested on all 8 billion people living on the planet before it is released.

[faust]

I mean, is the argument between “inherently unknowable” (shraeye) and “inherently knowable” (faust)?

Seems to me a more nuanced answer in the middle is likely.  It’s not like Trident awarded someone with Congrats, you are Tridely, the Trident-Wielder; at night you may stab someone with your trident.

Maybe trident is a lightning rod, maybe it is of decorative use, maybe it is huge and you can hide behind it. 

Was one of my guesses right?  Possible.  Does that make the items “inherently knowable”?  No. That just makes me lucky. (Or familiar with flavor.)

The Jimmmmm explanations are much more believable to me than the faust one, and is closer to correct in my opinion than the shraeye one.

I agree with all that is said here.

[faust]

Sorry for spamming the thread with more of this, I had a bad case of "someone is wrong on the internet", I know this stuff doesn't help anybody for the actual purposes of the game.

[faust]

I think we can conclude that there is a (likely quite substantial) subset of the items for which the flavour helps inform the function, but that doesn't necessarily hold true for every single item.

It's insane to think that it was totally randomized.  And it's insane to think that any player can 100% guess everything at this point.  My contention is that WE DO NOT KNOW what #1 drafted.  Mix apparently thinks he does.  I get the impression that other people think so as well.  Or at least think that "earlier drafting = more powerful item". 

The subset of "early drafters" might very well have overall more powerful items, but I don't understand how in the face of so much uncertainty (item-meaning, possibly getting blocked from your first choice, and what powers each player ranks as "best") people are still worried that revealing the draft order will give scum an advantage.

That's the point I was trying to make, and apparently it's turned into a totally irrelevant philosophical crisis.

I would agree that it's hard to know the power level of things - like, you could probably guess that Bow and Arrow does some sort of killing, but there's a long dstance to go there from "1-shot Weak Vigilante" to "Strongman Full Vigilante".

So it doesn't matter too much right now. But having claimed stuff like first round/second round definitely helps scum later down the line, when they might already know certain powers are in the game (for example because they were roleblocked), to pinpoint which items could give that sort of power and thus PoE which remaining player has which power based on which pool the item was in.

[faust]

vote: scolapasta

Alright then.

b]Vote: scolapasta[/b]

[faust]

Whoops.

Vote: scolapasta

[ashersky]

Is 2 out of 13 of a set of 20 a generally accepted scientific standard to prove a hypothesis?  Like, "hey, this medicine worked on 2 out of 13 people, must work for all!"?

I really don't know, as I'm no scientist.  But seems suspect.

No, clearly every medicine is tested on all 8 billion people living on the planet before it is released.

Nice straw man.  I am not arguing about approval for release — only that a positive result for two does not prove a positive result will occur for the rest. 

Some medicine works for people and not for others.  They still release it.  I assume it is tested on more than two people, but I’m not in that industry.  However, the failure of some medicines to work on some people proves my point that you cannot possibly know the nature of every single item that the mods created without cheating.

[ashersky]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

For the apologists who claim I'm just misunderstanding his wording...the statement in full, explained with color-coding:

"I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now."

In all cases, the "I" in that sentence refers to faust.
Per the statement:
--faust made 13 guesses
--faust made those guesses prior to drafting
--his qualitative statement regarding those guesses is based off of the cumulative knowledge he has gain up to the point of posting that statement
--his guesses were not very far off, where I posit "very far off" would mean "very inaccurate"

If faust wants to retcon an "ash just can't understand" explanation into this, his only real leg to stand on is to argue that "not very far off" meant "not very inaccurate" which can technically be taken to mean just "inaccurate" as oppose to "very inaccurate."  However, given he was using this statement to counter the argument that the items cannot be known in advance, that would seem disingenuous to me.

I wrote "based on what I know now". I knew what 2 of the items of the items did. They roughly matched what I imagined. Based on this being all information available to you, if you had to make a guess whether another item was also close to what I predicted, what would it be?

I would guess that you would be wrong.  Chance of flipping heads that many times in a row is tiny, no?  And given you have two outcomes — right or wrong — and each time is a random guess...

Do you really not see the arrogance in your statement? 

I’m not a doctor nor do I have any medical training.  20 people I have never met before come up to me, all suffering from unknown illnesses.  I make guesses for how to cure them.  The first two work!  I declare myself a superhuman god with amazing powers none has ever seen before and now all of humanity (well, those 20 at least) are saved.

That’s what you did, just with different subjects.  That of you are mafia, which would excuse everything.

Just lynch me if you are going to maintain this charade.

[ashersky]

I mean, as he refuses to confirm his clairvoyance in thread, I hope there's a time-stamped QT post we can check after the game to see.  I wonder if bow/arrow was on his guess list and he said "1-Shot Vigilante" in it.  I wonder if he guessed my item, and how in the world he could have gotten it right given what I know about it.

If this isn't proof that our disagreement has nothing to do with my alignment, I don't know what is. You are looking to resolve this conflict after the game; if this were about my alignment, it would no longer be relevant after the game.

I know you don’t have it.  This proves me right when the inevitable occurs (me lynched before you) and you get your flawless scum won. My “hope” statement there is sarcastic.

[ashersky]

As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye: I made guesses prior to drafting on what powers 13 of the 20 items give, and I wasn't very far off based on what I know now.

The post in question.  You said you made guesses and 13 items. You said you weren’t very far off based on what you knew at the time of posting.

I am not putting words in your mouth.  You are saying in the post above that you made guesses and then you were not “very far off” on those 13 guesses. That is what your sentences say.  Another way of saying not very far off would be “pretty close” right?

So then your explanation for how you were able to be pretty close on 13 guesses was saying you knew two items.

I am saying that is weaksauce.  How does knowing two items tell you that you were not “very far off” on 13? 

I did not put words in your mouth.  And how does this counter shraeye?  It makes his point — you can’t know for sure what any items are before getting them.  To counter that point, you need to show that players did or do know what all the items are without gaining them. I thought you were doing that by claiming to know 13 items somehow based on guesses.  The only way that works is clairvoyance, hyper intelligence, hacking, or cheating.  Or you have a greater number of data points due to your alignment or role.

So, as I’ve established not putting words in your mouth, please explain how you were so close on exactly 13, items, why only 13 and not 20, and who your scum partners are.

And no, my district mate told me his item is not an explanation for anything.  Nor is your own item, as that only confirms one out of the 13 that you clearly claim you were very close on. Please tell us how you know all 13 are very close.

I know that there is always a disconnect when I try to talk to you about probability so I won't try to argue how being right about two randomly chosen things is evidence that the rest are correct. You seem to be making the argument that I am scum and thus I actually knew the more items were correct, and I scumslipped. But by your own logic, knowing 5 also wouldn't tell me anything about the others, so I still couldn't know that all 13 were correct.

Probability has nothing to do with it since your statement expresses certainty, not probability.

[ashersky]

I mean, is the argument between “inherently unknowable” (shraeye) and “inherently knowable” (faust)?

Seems to me a more nuanced answer in the middle is likely.  It’s not like Trident awarded someone with Congrats, you are Tridely, the Trident-Wielder; at night you may stab someone with your trident.

Maybe trident is a lightning rod, maybe it is of decorative use, maybe it is huge and you can hide behind it. 

Was one of my guesses right?  Possible.  Does that make the items “inherently knowable”?  No. That just makes me lucky. (Or familiar with flavor.)

The Jimmmmm explanations are much more believable to me than the faust one, and is closer to correct in my opinion than the shraeye one.

I agree with all that is said here.

I suggest you take that back.  I literally argued against your statement.  So you agree you are wrong?  Or admit that you are lying?

[ashersky]

I wish I had gotten the gladiator item.  Faust, which one was that?

[ashersky]

Actually, just thought of a way that faust is both telling the truth and correct.

His list of twenty guesses is just "some role that can be used in a mafia game."

[ashersky]

I leave you all with this.

I've provided some reasoning for why I think faust is scum and lying -- you may not agree with it, or feel it is compelling, or sensible, but at least I've provided it.

faust has done nothing to explain why my scum motivations for this.  Wouldn't town!faust, or at least pro-town!faust, want to do so?  He's not even voting for me right now -- scum not wanting to look like he's taking advantage?  Yet another suspicious action on his part.

[faust]

faust has done nothing to explain why my scum motivations for this.  Wouldn't town!faust, or at least pro-town!faust, want to do so?  He's not even voting for me right now -- scum not wanting to look like he's taking advantage?  Yet another suspicious action on his part.

Well I have no reason to think you're scum. Is not OMGUSing now a scumtell?

[faust]

I agree with all that is said here.

I suggest you take that back.  I literally argued against your statement.  So you agree you are wrong?  Or admit that you are lying?
[/quote]
I maintain that none of my statements are in contradiction to that post. For one, you will note that I only made guesses on 13 of 20 items - because I couldn't come up with good guesses for the rest.

[faust]

Dammit, misquoted, sorry.

[ashersky]

But your 13 guesses weren’t good, they were perfect (or very nearly).

Did you have a bow/arrow guess?  Was it 1-shot vig?  (Yes, I know you could just lie here.)

[Jimmmmm]

Probability has nothing to do with it since your statement expresses certainty, not probability.

Where does faust express certainty?

[ashersky]

faust has done nothing to explain why my scum motivations for this.  Wouldn't town!faust, or at least pro-town!faust, want to do so?  He's not even voting for me right now -- scum not wanting to look like he's taking advantage?  Yet another suspicious action on his part.

Well I have no reason to think you're scum. Is not OMGUSing now a scumtell?

If I’m not scum, what’s my motivation?  Why stake my life on this?  We cannot be the same alignment given this, so either you are scum or I am.  (Or we are partner and staged this.)

[ashersky]

Probability has nothing to do with it since your statement expresses certainty, not probability.

Where does faust express certainty?

In his post.  I broke it down.  With color-coding.

[faust]

Did you have a bow/arrow guess?  Was it 1-shot vig?  (Yes, I know you could just lie here.)

Yes. No.

[ashersky]

“Not very far off” were his descriptive words.  No qualifying to it — no “I feel” or “it seems” or “probably” or even an “I think.”

Just “I wasn’t very far off” as a declarative statement of fact. Not opinion.

I was not eating a pineapple.  I was not very happy with the consistency of my soufflé. I was not very successful in making a career out of baseball.

Fact, certainty.  Not probability.

[faust]

faust has done nothing to explain why my scum motivations for this.  Wouldn't town!faust, or at least pro-town!faust, want to do so?  He's not even voting for me right now -- scum not wanting to look like he's taking advantage?  Yet another suspicious action on his part.

Well I have no reason to think you're scum. Is not OMGUSing now a scumtell?

If I’m not scum, what’s my motivation?  Why stake my life on this?  We cannot be the same alignment given this, so either you are scum or I am.  (Or we are partner and staged this.)

Because that's how you roll, you need some sort of crusade, and if it's against me, the player whose statements you tend to interpret in the least charitable light possible, all the better.

[faust]

“Not very far off” were his descriptive words.  No qualifying to it — no “I feel” or “it seems” or “probably” or even an “I think.”

There was a "based on what know now". In my books, that's a qualifier.

[ashersky]

Did you have a bow/arrow guess?  Was it 1-shot vig?  (Yes, I know you could just lie here.)

Yes. No.

And yet would you consider your guess “not very far off?”

[faust]

Did you have a bow/arrow guess?  Was it 1-shot vig?  (Yes, I know you could just lie here.)

Yes. No.

And yet would you consider your guess “not very far off?”

I mean I guessed that it would be some sort of vig, so yeah.

[ashersky]

faust has done nothing to explain why my scum motivations for this.  Wouldn't town!faust, or at least pro-town!faust, want to do so?  He's not even voting for me right now -- scum not wanting to look like he's taking advantage?  Yet another suspicious action on his part.

Well I have no reason to think you're scum. Is not OMGUSing now a scumtell?

If I’m not scum, what’s my motivation?  Why stake my life on this?  We cannot be the same alignment given this, so either you are scum or I am.  (Or we are partner and staged this.)

Because that's how you roll, you need some sort of crusade, and if it's against me, the player whose statements you tend to interpret in the least charitable light possible, all the better.

And what purpose does that supposed crusade serve, if not to move forward my scum agenda?

You can’t have it both ways.  Vote for me, get my inevitable day 1 mislynch over with.  You know you have the hammer vote in the bag.

My only request — don’t lynch me in my sleep.

[faust]

And what purpose does that supposed crusade serve, if not to move forward my scum agenda?

I makes you feel good about yourself.

[ashersky]

“Not very far off” were his descriptive words.  No qualifying to it — no “I feel” or “it seems” or “probably” or even an “I think.”

There was a "based on what know now". In my books, that's a qualifier.

I thought that knowledge was your proof.  Now it’s your out?

[ashersky]

And what purpose does that supposed crusade serve, if not to move forward my scum agenda?

I makes you feel good about yourself.

I’ve never met you. You are words on a forum behind an avatar.  Rich of you to think you make me feel good about myself.  If I need you for that, where have I been all these months?  How have I lived without you?

There was no reason to go there. You know nothing about my real life.

[ashersky]

I guess if your goal in making it personal was to drive me out of the game, I should just give you your wish.

[faust]

“Not very far off” were his descriptive words.  No qualifying to it — no “I feel” or “it seems” or “probably” or even an “I think.”

There was a "based on what know now". In my books, that's a qualifier.

I thought that knowledge was your proof.  Now it’s your out?

I never said it was proof.

[faust]

And what purpose does that supposed crusade serve, if not to move forward my scum agenda?

I makes you feel good about yourself.

I’ve never met you. You are words on a forum behind an avatar.  Rich of you to think you make me feel good about myself.  If I need you for that, where have I been all these months?  How have I lived without you?

There was no reason to go there. You know nothing about my real life.

I am sorry if that offended you, that was not my intention.

All I was trying to say is we all play mafia (presumably) because we take some sort of enjoyment out of it. There are various aspects of mafia that I enjoy, and different people enjoy different things. For example, someone like pingpongsam really enjoys making up claims. Someone like WestCoastDidds enjoys the sense of community that comes with our gaming group. Someone like me enjoys taking on a role of confidence that contrasts with how I interact with people in other parts of my life.

Based on our past shared experiences, I was under the impression that you kind of enjoy being the underdog arguing against a flawed group consensus. At least, that is often the position you seem to find yourself in, and it hasn't made you quit mafia yet, so I was led to assume that you don't absolutely hate it.

The situation we find ourselves in has happened in a similar way before, and it has happened in cases where we were both town. In trying to make sense of why it happens I formed a certain picture of your attitude towards me, and well - I get the feeling that you don't like me very much, or at the very least don't like my forum persona very much. Which is all in all a bit sad, but it serves as an explanation for why we clash.

Of course, I do not want to lay the blame for this squarely at your feet. I am well aware that I can be irritating and arrogant.

Again, I am sorry if I crossed any boundaries. I did not intend to and hope we can continue playing despite any differences between us.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

After rereading the 10 pages that were posted today it seems like a lot on nonsense arguing. lol

[Xxraptorslayer96]

@ Ash, what puts me so high on your scum list out of curiosity?

[cayvie]

this is a goddamn bizonkers day 1

[2.71828.....]

In other news I don't want to lynch pasta

[2.71828.....]

After rereading the 10 pages that were posted today it seems like a lot on nonsense arguing. lol

Oh hi raptor. Who do you think is scum?

[2.71828.....]

Faust and ashersky arguing is taking up a lot of space in the thread.

I do like ashersky reads post. I should comment on that

[2.71828.....]

Time for a popsquiz!

Ordered as DS (Definitely Scum) to OMDB (Over My Dead Body):

faust
mail-mi
Raptor
Glooble
EFHW
MiX
Lekkit
scola
Lalight
WCD
cayvie
shraeye
No Lynch
ADK
ash
Jimmmmm
2.7

I think I generally agree with this except for faust. I would be perfectly happy lynching in the mail-mi to EFHW range

[2.71828.....]

You know what, I just reread mail-mi and I am thinking

Vote: mail-mi

A lot of going with the flow.
The pseudo-useful post about quantity of scum

Not a perfect case, but there you have it

[MiX]

Is 2 out of 13 of a set of 20 a generally accepted scientific standard to prove a hypothesis?  Like, "hey, this medicine worked on 2 out of 13 people, must work for all!"?

I really don't know, as I'm no scientist.  But seems suspect.

Also, as I have said multiple times, my item directly contradicts faust's hypothesis.

This isn't science. This is game. Designed by a person/people who have somewhat similar experiences with Mafia to the people playing. The items were very likely created with ideas of how they would be interpreted in mind (because you should keep these things in mind when designing a game). Maybe they deliberately made some items with unexpected effects. Maybe some items have unexpected effects because they couldn't think of what else to use or because people have different expectations. But the fact remains that we seem to have evidence to suggest that the mods generally tried to create items whose effects match their flavour.

Well, see my epic posting fail for why I see that as an issue.

My main point, though, which no one seems to focus on, is that faust is scummy for trying to get the entire population to believe one thing based on what I think is flimsy evidence, and his only expansion on his reasoning up to this point has been to say his and his district partner's items matched his guesses.

All he had to do was walk back his confidence level on his assumption, or admit that maybe his post was a bit exaggerated, or say stuff like "we seem to have evidence to suggest that the mods generally tried to create items who effect match their flavour" instead.

This exaggeration feels like something I'd say, because who cares about the scientific method? It's clear that items are not random, people with intuition and knowledge of the flavor can hint at it, and faust proved that you can guess them correctly. Therefore so can scum.

About the flavor not mattering part, I believe that's just due to flavor names being independent of alignment. Knowing Katniss is probably a vig affects the game if you flavor claim, but you can never remove that if you're using flavor for any game. Not to mention "knowing" what each item does changes what they do: you can still only go for one of them, town and scum overall get the same power level of items, and you can't choose favourably as you don't know the relative strength of items: for example, we didn't know if bow and arrow was a full shot vig or a 1 shot vig.

What you had for breakfast today?  Whether Disney will make Frozen 3?

Scrambled eggs with toast. Yes, but it will be a live action remake.

If this is true, you are town this game, if this is false, you are scum this game. Let both of these prophecies endure time to see if they're correct!

Just lynch me if you are going to maintain this charade.

I know you don’t have it.  This proves me right when the inevitable occurs (me lynched before you) and you get your flawless scum won. My “hope” statement there is sarcastic.

Inevitable? Feels like you want it to happen. Also what's "it" in "I know you don't have it"?

PPE anything after the things I quoted so the wall's shorter

[MiX]

faust has done nothing to explain why my scum motivations for this.  Wouldn't town!faust, or at least pro-town!faust, want to do so?  He's not even voting for me right now -- scum not wanting to look like he's taking advantage?  Yet another suspicious action on his part.

Well I have no reason to think you're scum. Is not OMGUSing now a scumtell?

If I’m not scum, what’s my motivation?  Why stake my life on this?  We cannot be the same alignment given this, so either you are scum or I am.  (Or we are partner and staged this.)

You tell me ash, what is your motivation? Winning an argument with faust? If you know someone is scum, stop interacting with them. Let your case talk for you.

Heh, look at me teaching ash, as if I could.

“Not very far off” were his descriptive words.  No qualifying to it — no “I feel” or “it seems” or “probably” or even an “I think.”

Just “I wasn’t very far off” as a declarative statement of fact. Not opinion.

I was not eating a pineapple.  I was not very happy with the consistency of my soufflé. I was not very successful in making a career out of baseball.

Fact, certainty.  Not probability.

"Not very far off" is a lot of words for "correct" if you were being certain. All those extra words express uncertainty. At least from what I see. For example, if he was more certain, he could've said "not far off".


Man. That's a lot of talk for me to get "I guess ash thinks faust is scum for real, and is thus town".

Lynching mail-mi sounds wrong, but I should probably reread.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning, folks! I hope you are all feeling fine!

Ash is town. Let’s take another look at mail-mi and lalight...

[mail-mi]

I'm here, give me a moment to look at a few things

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: mail-mi I'm pretty sure I am already but I don't think the last vote count reflects it

[mail-mi]

i currently have many townreads but not very many scumreads. I need to do a reread, which I hope I can get to tonight or tomorrow.

Give me your gut reaction on the scum-radar.  I don't care if you can't back itup.

let me respond to this.

ash v. faust seems like town v town.
you're town.
I can see cayvie's reasoning for WCD right now, she isn't as townie as she usually is.
I still think e could be scum, though I don't know if that lynch is happening today
--side note on the e thing, do we want to try to direct the vig shot or let him use it? I'm not sure if I trust him.
where has EFHW been? I thought I remembered her usually being more active, would be willing to put a vote there.
*I'm looking at the player list now to remember who all is in the game*
Raptor has made like, what, 4 posts? i think that's a little too much lurking to be scum
Glooble said he's busy, so I'll give him a bit of a pass
MiX seems like MiX, can't tell if scum or town
I'm still not down on the scola lynch.

so let's do some scum-to-chum with my gut feels:

scummy: EFHW, WCD, Raptor, e,
neutral-to-scummy: glooble, Lalight, lekkit,
neutral: ADK, Jimmmmm, cayvie, MiX
neutral-to-town: scola, faust
town: ash, shraeye, mail-mi

[mail-mi]

You know what, I just reread mail-mi and I am thinking

Vote: mail-mi

A lot of going with the flow.
The pseudo-useful post about quantity of scum

Not a perfect case, but there you have it

do you even know me? i am an observer and I go with the flow. these are reasons I've been mislynched in several of my town games.

[mail-mi]

I'mma throw down a vote: efhw and see if that goes anywhere.

[mail-mi]

I'mma throw down a vote: efhw and see if that goes anywhere.

Sorry, let me make that more clear:

vote: EFHW

[mail-mi]

@ Ash, what puts me so high on your scum list out of curiosity?

raptor pops in for a few minutes, asks why someone thinks he's scum, and then disappears again. Scum pay more attention to who scumreads them than town does in my experience. Raptor has gone up my scum list, make that a
vote: raptor

[mail-mi]

unvote, ash came to our qt

this whole clairvoyance argument is super weird, i feel like it some meta argument, or overly sarcastic, and i don't know what is going on

I don't want to lynch e, his move is very pro-town

I don't want to lynch ash as of now

vote: mail-mi

watch out for this from Lalight, a vote on me with no explanation right as my wagon is forming. perfect place for scum

[mail-mi]

I'm liking Jimmmm's posts in the ash v Faust thing about roles. Not sure if it makes him town, but move him up the town spectrum.

[2.71828.....]

You know what, I just reread mail-mi and I am thinking

Vote: mail-mi

A lot of going with the flow.
The pseudo-useful post about quantity of scum

Not a perfect case, but there you have it

do you even know me? i am an observer and I go with the flow. these are reasons I've been mislynched in several of my town games.

Just because you any like yourself doesn't mean you aren't scum

[mail-mi]

ok, gotta get back to work.

would love to see other's scum-to-chum lists as well, maybe we can get a good lynch other than "let's lynch mail-mi for being mail-mi."

[mail-mi]

You know what, I just reread mail-mi and I am thinking

Vote: mail-mi

A lot of going with the flow.
The pseudo-useful post about quantity of scum

Not a perfect case, but there you have it

do you even know me? i am an observer and I go with the flow. these are reasons I've been mislynched in several of my town games.

Just because you any like yourself doesn't mean you aren't scum

doesn't mean I am.

ok now really back to work.

[WestCoastDidds]

ash v. faust seems like town v town.
you're town.
I can see cayvie's reasoning for WCD right now, she isn't as townie as she usually is.
I still think e could be scum, though I don't know if that lynch is happening today
--side note on the e thing, do we want to try to direct the vig shot or let him use it? I'm not sure if I trust him.
where has EFHW been? I thought I remembered her usually being more active, would be willing to put a vote there.
*I'm looking at the player list now to remember who all is in the game*
Raptor has made like, what, 4 posts? i think that's a little too much lurking to be scum
Glooble said he's busy, so I'll give him a bit of a pass
MiX seems like MiX, can't tell if scum or town
I'm still not down on the scola lynch.

so let's do some scum-to-chum with my gut feels:

scummy: EFHW, WCD, Raptor, e,
neutral-to-scummy: glooble, Lalight, lekkit,
neutral: ADK, Jimmmmm, cayvie, MiX
neutral-to-town: scola, faust
town: ash, shraeye, mail-mi

I agree with some of this....mostly that EFHW and raptor are playing under the radar. I think move Lekkt and LL to the scummy list instead of me, and drop e down a coup,e of notches, too, and we’re in business!

I disagree that I am not as townie as usual, although I will freely admit by being freaked the f out by all things covid and really struggling with this much isolation, so maybe that is changing the way I communicate.

[WestCoastDidds]

Mail-mi, what are you working on??

[WestCoastDidds]

E, what does your scum to chum list look like? Also, how is baby e and the Mrs? Has her arm healed?

[cayvie]

Surprise post count!

1. LaLight - 16
2. Mail-Mi - 35
3. Jimmmm - 15
4. Cayvie - 101
5. WCD - 33
6. MiX - 76
7. Lekkit - 11
8. Shraeye - 29
9. ADK - 32
10. Raptor - 10
11. E! - 35
12. EFHW - 14
13. Glooble - 12
14. Scolapasta - 41
15. faust - 76
16. Ash - 82

[mail-mi]

Mail-mi, what are you working on??

I'm doing my job, working at a call center for a home security place. Thanks for asking!

[2.71828.....]

Surprise post count!

1. LaLight - 16
2. Mail-Mi - 35
3. Jimmmm - 15
4. Cayvie - 101
5. WCD - 33
6. MiX - 76
7. Lekkit - 11
8. Shraeye - 29
9. ADK - 32
10. Raptor - 10
11. E! - 35
12. EFHW - 14
13. Glooble - 12
14. Scolapasta - 41
15. faust - 76
16. Ash - 82

Wow, you have posted a lot, cayvie.

Post count basically matches meta for all players, nothing stands out to me

[cayvie]

Wow, you have posted a lot, cayvie.

Post count basically matches meta for all players, nothing stands out to me

yeahhhh... my anxiety is thru the goddamn roof these days and i think this game is what i'm putting all that energy into. i'm sorry if i'm annoying lol

[MiX]

Wow, you have posted a lot, cayvie.

Post count basically matches meta for all players, nothing stands out to me

yeahhhh... my anxiety is thru the goddamn roof these days and i think this game is what i'm putting all that energy into. i'm sorry if i'm annoying lol

That's insane, I was getting used to hitting highest post count tied with faust by now.

[LaLight]

ash, when you get back, please read our qt

[LaLight]

ash v. faust seems like town v town.
you're town.
I can see cayvie's reasoning for WCD right now, she isn't as townie as she usually is.
I still think e could be scum, though I don't know if that lynch is happening today
--side note on the e thing, do we want to try to direct the vig shot or let him use it? I'm not sure if I trust him.
where has EFHW been? I thought I remembered her usually being more active, would be willing to put a vote there.
*I'm looking at the player list now to remember who all is in the game*
Raptor has made like, what, 4 posts? i think that's a little too much lurking to be scum
Glooble said he's busy, so I'll give him a bit of a pass
MiX seems like MiX, can't tell if scum or town
I'm still not down on the scola lynch.

so let's do some scum-to-chum with my gut feels:

scummy: EFHW, WCD, Raptor, e,
neutral-to-scummy: glooble, Lalight, lekkit,
neutral: ADK, Jimmmmm, cayvie, MiX
neutral-to-town: scola, faust
town: ash, shraeye, mail-mi

I agree with some of this....mostly that EFHW and raptor are playing under the radar. I think move Lekkt and LL to the scummy list instead of me, and drop e down a coup,e of notches, too, and we’re in business!

I disagree that I am not as townie as usual, although I will freely admit by being freaked the f out by all things covid and really struggling with this much isolation, so maybe that is changing the way I communicate.

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

[shraeye]

Between you guys, faust is scummy.

No no, I didn't want that narrow of an answer.  I mean, in this game, the full 16 player list we're thinking about, what opinions do you have other than a philosophical position against faust?

[shraeye]

Sorry for spamming the thread with more of this, I had a bad case of "someone is wrong on the internet", I know this stuff doesn't help anybody for the actual purposes of the game.

Yeah, but I blame ash more for the majority of the posts on this matter.  Is that blame falsely placed? Where do you think it should go?  The issue here is, everybody gets a case of "wrong on the internet" from time to time, but it is a legitimate scum-tactic to fill the thread with unimportant info.

[WestCoastDidds]

ash v. faust seems like town v town.
you're town.
I can see cayvie's reasoning for WCD right now, she isn't as townie as she usually is.
I still think e could be scum, though I don't know if that lynch is happening today
--side note on the e thing, do we want to try to direct the vig shot or let him use it? I'm not sure if I trust him.
where has EFHW been? I thought I remembered her usually being more active, would be willing to put a vote there.
*I'm looking at the player list now to remember who all is in the game*
Raptor has made like, what, 4 posts? i think that's a little too much lurking to be scum
Glooble said he's busy, so I'll give him a bit of a pass
MiX seems like MiX, can't tell if scum or town
I'm still not down on the scola lynch.

so let's do some scum-to-chum with my gut feels:

scummy: EFHW, WCD, Raptor, e,
neutral-to-scummy: glooble, Lalight, lekkit,
neutral: ADK, Jimmmmm, cayvie, MiX
neutral-to-town: scola, faust
town: ash, shraeye, mail-mi

I agree with some of this....mostly that EFHW and raptor are playing under the radar. I think move Lekkt and LL to the scummy list instead of me, and drop e down a coup,e of notches, too, and we’re in business!

I disagree that I am not as townie as usual, although I will freely admit by being freaked the f out by all things covid and really struggling with this much isolation, so maybe that is changing the way I communicate.

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

Sweet mean girls reference! I’m not fixed on you, I think you’re behaving as scum!LL does so when I was commenting on mail-mis list, I fleshed it out with my reads. This doesn’t seem any more different than others who are sharing their reads so for you to find it weird, is super weird with, perhaps, a side of defensive sauce.

[shraeye]

After rereading the 10 pages that were posted today it seems like a lot on nonsense arguing. lol

Try filtering out any post that talks about items? 

[shraeye]

You know what, I just reread mail-mi and I am thinking

Vote: mail-mi

A lot of going with the flow.
The pseudo-useful post about quantity of scum

Not a perfect case, but there you have it

I want to hear ADK talk about mail-mi first.  And not just the re-affirm vote he gave.

[shraeye]

I'm liking Jimmmm's posts in the ash v Faust thing about roles. Not sure if it makes him town, but move him up the town spectrum.

I think that's just Jimmm being Jimmm.

It's way too hard for me to read any posts surrounding that argument, because it's transcended in-game dimensions.  So nobody has a pro-town pro-scum agenda WHILE making those posts/arguments.

[shraeye]

Surprise post count!

1. LaLight - 16
2. Mail-Mi - 35
3. Jimmmm - 15
4. Cayvie - 101
5. WCD - 33
6. MiX - 76
7. Lekkit - 11
8. Shraeye - 29
9. ADK - 32
10. Raptor - 10
11. E! - 35
12. EFHW - 14
13. Glooble - 12
14. Scolapasta - 41
15. faust - 76
16. Ash - 82

Cayvie, you have 101!!!??

[shraeye]

unvote, ash came to our qt

this whole clairvoyance argument is super weird, i feel like it some meta argument, or overly sarcastic, and i don't know what is going on

I don't want to lynch e, his move is very pro-town

I don't want to lynch ash as of now

vote: mail-mi

watch out for this from Lalight, a vote on me with no explanation right as my wagon is forming. perfect place for scum

I feel like his actions are surprisingly close to your actions.  ("do you even know me? i am an observer and I go with the flow. these are reasons I've been mislynched in several of my town games.")

Can you clarify the difference?

[shraeye]

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

I haven't noticed Didds fixating on you.  Was this more of a joke post that went over my head?  Or am I missing the trend that you're seeing?

[scolapasta]

vote: scolapasta

Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11?  Or that the deck is marked?  Or could faust have just been lucky?  I am continually waiting for some explanation or proof how faust knows his 13 guesses are all very nearly perfect.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that "Flipping two correct is proof that faust knows the other 11".
Hypothesis: The mods generally tried to align the flavour and mechanics of the items.
Result: 2 items have mechanics in line with their flavour.
Conclusion: The hypothesis is very likely correct.

Obviously any two people could have different ideas how of what an item should do, but given that 2/2 items match, it's very likely that the mods in fact did try to do this.

And now back to the debate!

When you've quoted faust, you've left out a key part of what he said:"As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye"

I don't think faust was claiming that all 13 objects he guessed where correct (even if her were scum, how would he be able to confirm 13?), just that, as Jimmmmm captures above, it is possible to have a guess based on item name. i.e. that knowing someone's item can give you some idea of their role.

And my "not buying it" is that it feels like you are deliberately taking faust out of that context, in order to create chaos and suspicion.

to me, in the context of his other posts, this post reads as full of relief that he gets to weigh in on the correct (sorry Ash) side of an argument with gusto. it's stressful pretending to scumhunt! what a blessing to see a townie being logically wrong and to be able to argue against him!

Well, I was responding to ash, though forgot to quote his questioning, since I wanted to quote Jimmmm's response above. I'll add it here now for context:

But I don't buy Ashersky's conflict with faust - the argument that from the name of an item you can make an educated guess on what it does is reasonable. Having just one item confirmed is solid evidence for that argument. Besides, no one seemed to have any issue with people suggesting that Bow and Arrow was likely vig.

What do you mean by not "buying" my conflict?  Do you mean that I am faking the fight with faust (which would make us partners)?  Are you saying you don't agree with my side of the argument?  Please clarify.

You say "having just one item confirmed is solid evidence for that argument."  Is that your honest belief in how the world work?  Here:

"Slamming my head on a keyboard is an efficient way to write out genetic code."

cfklxzklcx.cx,/l;ssdl;kkl;dlskr;eior5opK4['wrIOWEF'a;u/kls;aior'q'.lcx,cxkdxlop.vg;lp.cjmjxkkdkslo;.pxl;.jkchjcxvhjkvjucfjsdlo.zsl.djumdweidiofp/womjm fiuexol.;wik,dkuedxku,edxlfcku,ifggciufxudki,fcj,fcxhmdzjmufxku,fckfdxjdxzj,dxkifxck,udryehdxzk,fclifc,kfdxdj

Hey look, there's at least one instance of consecutive letters that correspond to the way we write out genetic code in there.  Looks like we have "one item confirmed" that "is solid evidence for that argument."

i.e. I was asked why I didn't buy it and Jimmmm's response was a better formed explanation of what I had been trying to say.

Why do you think ash is town? I get I'm behind here and maybe his chaos inducing style (do people not agree that he seems to deliberately causing chaos) is his normal style, but it seems scummy to me.

[scolapasta]

I wish I had gotten the gladiator item.  Faust, which one was that?

Not faust, but why not trident?

[mail-mi]

unvote, ash came to our qt

this whole clairvoyance argument is super weird, i feel like it some meta argument, or overly sarcastic, and i don't know what is going on

I don't want to lynch e, his move is very pro-town

I don't want to lynch ash as of now

vote: mail-mi

watch out for this from Lalight, a vote on me with no explanation right as my wagon is forming. perfect place for scum

I feel like his actions are surprisingly close to your actions.  ("do you even know me? i am an observer and I go with the flow. these are reasons I've been mislynched in several of my town games.")

Can you clarify the difference?

I haven't placed my vote on an opportunistic wagon, LaLight has. (You may say I did that with e, but I woke up that morning with the intent to start a wagon on e, but overnight someone else had started the wagon)

[scolapasta]

Good morning, folks! I hope you are all feeling fine!

Ash is town. Let’s take another look at mail-mi and lalight...

Why do you say ash is town?

[scolapasta]

ok, gotta get back to work.

would love to see other's scum-to-chum lists as well, maybe we can get a good lynch other than "let's lynch mail-mi for being mail-mi."

So I found a good link for abbreviations, so hopefully no more questions on those, but newbie question #3: what's scum-to-chum?

[mail-mi]

ok, gotta get back to work.

would love to see other's scum-to-chum lists as well, maybe we can get a good lynch other than "let's lynch mail-mi for being mail-mi."

So I found a good link for abbreviations, so hopefully no more questions on those, but newbie question #3: what's scum-to-chum?

basically a list of who you think is scummy and townie (or "chummy")

[scolapasta]

So, I've been told my Shraeye* that direct quoting from QTs is not allowed, but paraphrasing is OK (note - this itself is a paraphrase). Is this true? What about if in the main thread I give explicit permission?

* I'm trying to get them to post in the main thread the specific non "organic" thing I said, as I find it completely sketchy to assert something without providing any actual evidence.

[scolapasta]

ok, gotta get back to work.

would love to see other's scum-to-chum lists as well, maybe we can get a good lynch other than "let's lynch mail-mi for being mail-mi."

So I found a good link for abbreviations, so hopefully no more questions on those, but newbie question #3: what's scum-to-chum?

basically a list of who you think is scummy and townie (or "chummy")

Ah, so what cayvie (and I mimicked earlier) posted on one of her 101 posts!

(I was thrown by the "to", as I thought maybe it was who you used to think was scummy, but no longer)

Thanks!

[shraeye]

I haven't placed my vote on an opportunistic wagon, LaLight has. (You may say I did that with e, but I woke up that morning with the intent to start a wagon on e, but overnight someone else had started the wagon)

I mean, votes need to go on wagons sometime, or we'll all just circle around with 2-3 votes max.

Fair enough though, my eye is on LaLight. All our eyes should be on everybody.  I do wish the distracting posts would diminish.

[faust]

So, I've been told my Shraeye* that direct quoting from QTs is not allowed, but paraphrasing is OK (note - this itself is a paraphrase). Is this true? What about if in the main thread I give explicit permission?

* I'm trying to get them to post in the main thread the specific non "organic" thing I said, as I find it completely sketchy to assert something without providing any actual evidence.

If you want an okay to quote something from another thread, you have to ask the mods' permission, and I'm inclined to think that they won't allow it. There's reasons for that, I don't want to go into it right now but I can tell the story some other time if you're interested.

[cayvie]

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

Sweet mean girls reference! I’m not fixed on you, I think you’re behaving as scum!LL does so when I was commenting on mail-mis list, I fleshed it out with my reads. This doesn’t seem any more different than others who are sharing their reads so for you to find it weird, is super weird with, perhaps, a side of defensive sauce.

you know, the last person i saw accuse didds of being obsessed with them turned out to be scum. i'm inclined to vote: lalight and see if this is a hilariously specific scumtell

[mail-mi]

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

Sweet mean girls reference! I’m not fixed on you, I think you’re behaving as scum!LL does so when I was commenting on mail-mis list, I fleshed it out with my reads. This doesn’t seem any more different than others who are sharing their reads so for you to find it weird, is super weird with, perhaps, a side of defensive sauce.

you know, the last person i saw accuse didds of being obsessed with them turned out to be scum. i'm inclined to vote: lalight and see if this is a hilariously specific scumtell

I'll join you here, vote: lalight but for the other reasons that have been mentioned. Still keeping my eye on Raptor (for as little as there is to keep my eye on).

[scolapasta]

So, I've been told my Shraeye* that direct quoting from QTs is not allowed, but paraphrasing is OK (note - this itself is a paraphrase). Is this true? What about if in the main thread I give explicit permission?

* I'm trying to get them to post in the main thread the specific non "organic" thing I said, as I find it completely sketchy to assert something without providing any actual evidence.

If you want an okay to quote something from another thread, you have to ask the mods' permission, and I'm inclined to think that they won't allow it. There's reasons for that, I don't want to go into it right now but I can tell the story some other time if you're interested.

It feels weird that if I were to say in this main thread, 'X can quote me" it wouldn't be allowed, but I guess it could be chaotic if the quote is then not true. Though I don't see how that would be that different from paraphrasing something false either.

Basically it allows Shraeye to accuse me of being inorganic but not able to provide any actual evidence to support that (according to them).

Am I allowed to quote myself from the QT?

(I would definitely be interested in the story some time)

[cayvie]

Am I allowed to quote myself from the QT?

(I would definitely be interested in the story some time)

nope! the no-quoting rule has less to do with consent than it does with potential game-breaking strategies

[scolapasta]

Am I allowed to quote myself from the QT?

(I would definitely be interested in the story some time)

nope! the no-quoting rule has less to do with consent than it does with potential game-breaking strategies

Huh. Ok. Someone will some day have to explain to me how it's different from paraphrasing (in the context of breaking strategies).

[cayvie]

unofficial votecount:

Mail-Mi (4): Jimmm, LaLight, e, ADK
Ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
LaLight (3): WCD, cayvie, mail-mi
Scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
EFHW (1): MiX
Shraeye (1): RaptorSlayer
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1):  Lekkit

of folks with votes on them, i'd be happy with a mail-mi, lalight, or scolapasta lynch today. i'd begrudgingly settle for an ashersky one.

[Glooble]

Pretty scummy for one or few people to withhold info, everyone else has shared, without good reason

if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

If it kept me from looking scummy, sure.

vote: raptor.

ash v. faust looks more than likely town v. town. LaLight is null for me atm but this statement from raptor is scummy. Town players should base decisions about whether to share information on if that information will help town more than it will help scum. Scum players are the ones making decisions based on how those decisions make them look to others.

[MiX]

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

Sweet mean girls reference! I’m not fixed on you, I think you’re behaving as scum!LL does so when I was commenting on mail-mis list, I fleshed it out with my reads. This doesn’t seem any more different than others who are sharing their reads so for you to find it weird, is super weird with, perhaps, a side of defensive sauce.

you know, the last person i saw accuse didds of being obsessed with them turned out to be scum. i'm inclined to vote: lalight and see if this is a hilariously specific scumtell

I would be surprised if you are wrong. However, I don't see LaLight doing things that remind me of when we were scum, so count me out of lynching him today. I like his votes too.

unofficial votecount:

Mail-Mi (4): Jimmm, LaLight, e, ADK
Ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
LaLight (3): WCD, cayvie, mail-mi
Scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
EFHW (1): MiX
Shraeye (1): RaptorSlayer
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1):  Lekkit

of folks with votes on them, i'd be happy with a mail-mi, lalight, or scolapasta lynch today. i'd begrudgingly settle for an ashersky one.

All low hanging fruit. Meh, I still like my vote, not getting the scum bells EFHW gives me when she's scum but still tickles my scummy bone.

[MiX]

All low hanging fruit. Meh, I still like my vote, not getting the scum bells EFHW usually gives me when she's scum but still tickles my scummy bone.

I yearn to see this be used as a scumslip.

[2.71828.....]

All low hanging fruit. Meh, I still like my vote, not getting the scum bells EFHW usually gives me when she's scum but still tickles my scummy bone.

I yearn to see this be used as a scumslip.

Are you calling a scum slip on yourself?

[MiX]

All low hanging fruit. Meh, I still like my vote, not getting the scum bells EFHW usually gives me when she's scum but still tickles my scummy bone.

I yearn to see this be used as a scumslip.

Are you calling a scum slip on yourself?

No, but it would be funny if someone else did.

[2.71828.....]

All low hanging fruit. Meh, I still like my vote, not getting the scum bells EFHW usually gives me when she's scum but still tickles my scummy bone.

I yearn to see this be used as a scumslip.

Are you calling a scum slip on yourself?

No, but it would be funny if someone else did.

I mean, you beat them to the punch. Lucky for you I think that is something town!MiX does.

It is also something that will get you lynched if your not careful

[MiX]

All low hanging fruit. Meh, I still like my vote, not getting the scum bells EFHW usually gives me when she's scum but still tickles my scummy bone.

I yearn to see this be used as a scumslip.

Are you calling a scum slip on yourself?

No, but it would be funny if someone else did.

I mean, you beat them to the punch. Lucky for you I think that is something town!MiX does.

It is also something that will get you lynched if your not careful

It's NAI to point it out, really. It was just a way to EBWOP and I hate empty posts so I said something.

You know me, I'm always careful about being lynched, don't worry about it.

[LaLight]

ash v. faust seems like town v town.
you're town.
I can see cayvie's reasoning for WCD right now, she isn't as townie as she usually is.
I still think e could be scum, though I don't know if that lynch is happening today
--side note on the e thing, do we want to try to direct the vig shot or let him use it? I'm not sure if I trust him.
where has EFHW been? I thought I remembered her usually being more active, would be willing to put a vote there.
*I'm looking at the player list now to remember who all is in the game*
Raptor has made like, what, 4 posts? i think that's a little too much lurking to be scum
Glooble said he's busy, so I'll give him a bit of a pass
MiX seems like MiX, can't tell if scum or town
I'm still not down on the scola lynch.

so let's do some scum-to-chum with my gut feels:

scummy: EFHW, WCD, Raptor, e,
neutral-to-scummy: glooble, Lalight, lekkit,
neutral: ADK, Jimmmmm, cayvie, MiX
neutral-to-town: scola, faust
town: ash, shraeye, mail-mi

I agree with some of this....mostly that EFHW and raptor are playing under the radar. I think move Lekkt and LL to the scummy list instead of me, and drop e down a coup,e of notches, too, and we’re in business!

I disagree that I am not as townie as usual, although I will freely admit by being freaked the f out by all things covid and really struggling with this much isolation, so maybe that is changing the way I communicate.

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

Sweet mean girls reference! I’m not fixed on you, I think you’re behaving as scum!LL does so when I was commenting on mail-mis list, I fleshed it out with my reads. This doesn’t seem any more different than others who are sharing their reads so for you to find it weird, is super weird with, perhaps, a side of defensive sauce.

ehm that was not a reference, just a choice of words

i maybe mixed some people in my headbut it felt like you said I am very scummy quite a lot of times. maybe i am wrong, it was an impression i got and it was weird, i don't expecttunneling from you

[shraeye]

of folks with votes on them, i'd be happy with a mail-mi, lalight, or scolapasta lynch today. i'd begrudgingly settle for an ashersky one.

I know my beef with scolapasta; what's yours?

[shraeye]

ash v. faust looks more than likely town v. town.

I would beware of that conclusion.  Loud fight with stubborn opinions gets categorized as town v. town too much.

raptor is scummy. Town players should base decisions about whether to share information on if that information will help town more than it will help scum.

Should =/= Do

[cayvie]

of folks with votes on them, i'd be happy with a mail-mi, lalight, or scolapasta lynch today. i'd begrudgingly settle for an ashersky one.

I know my beef with scolapasta; what's yours?

1) i trust your beef
2) i didn't like the way he joined in the faust v ash thing

[shraeye]

[regarding current votes] All low hanging fruit.

Does this make you want to lynch them less?  What high-hanging fruit is the most worth lynching?

[MiX]

[regarding current votes] All low hanging fruit.

Does this make you want to lynch them less?  What high-hanging fruit is the most worth lynching?

EFHW. Why else would I keep voting for her?

Notably it doesn't make me want to lynch them less, except ash because he's dragging himself under the mud unecessarily. I should get to rereading...

[shraeye]

I mean, like, WHY mention that a list of options is low-hanging fruit if that fact doesn't affect your decision making at all??

I know this is how you mafia, but if you could slow down the unnecessary commentary that would help me out a lot.  If it has no effect for you, it presumably should have no effect on how anybody else thinks.  So stating it is negative utility.

[MiX]

I mean, like, WHY mention that a list of options is low-hanging fruit if that fact doesn't affect your decision making at all??

I know this is how you mafia, but if you could slow down the unnecessary commentary that would help me out a lot.  If it has no effect for you, it presumably should have no effect on how anybody else thinks.  So stating it is negative utility.

I could be willing to lynch the people that have the most votes and overall are being more scumread, if I'm reading the thread correctly. I stated I was not. Feels fine idk.

[MiX]

I mean, like, WHY mention that a list of options is low-hanging fruit if that fact doesn't affect your decision making at all??

I know this is how you mafia, but if you could slow down the unnecessary commentary that would help me out a lot.  If it has no effect for you, it presumably should have no effect on how anybody else thinks.  So stating it is negative utility.

I could be more willing to lynch the people that have the most votes and overall are being more scumread, if I'm reading the thread correctly. I stated I was not. Feels fine idk.

Or even prioritize those, or townread them specifically, or have any other opinion about them. What I said is still information to read me.

[EFHW]

Ok, I spent the afternoon rereading. I'm sorry I've been a bit AWOL. liopoil is back from college (sad for him, but nice for us), and we've been doing impossible puzzles from an event at his school. I'm sticking with my ash vote. Creating chaos, doubling and tripling down on faust, and concocting a plan that would only benefit scum. There was no town reason to pursue that shaky a plan. Round claiming was a bad idea.

I do think it's too bad [post restriction], I'll tell you after the game.
 

[WestCoastDidds]

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

Sweet mean girls reference! I’m not fixed on you, I think you’re behaving as scum!LL does so when I was commenting on mail-mis list, I fleshed it out with my reads. This doesn’t seem any more different than others who are sharing their reads so for you to find it weird, is super weird with, perhaps, a side of defensive sauce.

you know, the last person i saw accuse didds of being obsessed with them turned out to be scum. i'm inclined to vote: lalight and see if this is a hilariously specific scumtell

Ah, that’s a good memory Cayvie!

[MiX]

Ok, I spent the afternoon rereading. I'm sorry I've been a bit AWOL. liopoil is back from college (sad for him, but nice for us), and we've been doing impossible puzzles from an event at his school. I'm sticking with my ash vote. Creating chaos, doubling and tripling down on faust, and concocting a plan that would only benefit scum. There was no town reason to pursue that shaky a plan. Round claiming was a bad idea.

I do think it's too bad [post restriction], I'll tell you after the game.

I don't think (post restriction) matters. Take that as you will.

As he's fought faust and you're you, I'd love to see what ash's original thoughts were when he called for the round claim. If he said them and I missed them, please quote them for me, thanks in advance.

[EFHW]

MiX, I think your case on me is based on some misunderstandings. It's a bit far back now, but basically I did clarify that I found Raptor scummy for giving his round and for why he did. You seemed under the impression that I found him scummy for finding me scummy for not giving my round. Also you said I voted without giving a reason. My post was confusing, but I have provided reasons then and just now as well.

[EFHW]

Ok, I spent the afternoon rereading. I'm sorry I've been a bit AWOL. liopoil is back from college (sad for him, but nice for us), and we've been doing impossible puzzles from an event at his school. I'm sticking with my ash vote. Creating chaos, doubling and tripling down on faust, and concocting a plan that would only benefit scum. There was no town reason to pursue that shaky a plan. Round claiming was a bad idea.

I do think it's too bad [post restriction], I'll tell you after the game.

I don't think (post restriction) matters. Take that as you will.

As he's fought faust and you're you, I'd love to see what ash's original thoughts were when he called for the round claim. If he said them and I missed them, please quote them for me, thanks in advance.

He said he was trying to catch scum in a lie. It would be pointless to lie as scum since the numbers have to add up. But he got almost everyone to follow him.

[MiX]

Ok, I spent the afternoon rereading. I'm sorry I've been a bit AWOL. liopoil is back from college (sad for him, but nice for us), and we've been doing impossible puzzles from an event at his school. I'm sticking with my ash vote. Creating chaos, doubling and tripling down on faust, and concocting a plan that would only benefit scum. There was no town reason to pursue that shaky a plan. Round claiming was a bad idea.

I do think it's too bad [post restriction], I'll tell you after the game.

I don't think (post restriction) matters. Take that as you will.

As he's fought faust and you're you, I'd love to see what ash's original thoughts were when he called for the round claim. If he said them and I missed them, please quote them for me, thanks in advance.

He said he was trying to catch scum in a lie. It would be pointless to lie as scum since the numbers have to add up. But he got almost everyone to follow him.

Wait. That was it?

Vote: ash while he answers. L-?, I remember a bunch of votes.

[cayvie]

Ok, I spent the afternoon rereading. I'm sorry I've been a bit AWOL. liopoil is back from college (sad for him, but nice for us), and we've been doing impossible puzzles from an event at his school. I'm sticking with my ash vote. Creating chaos, doubling and tripling down on faust, and concocting a plan that would only benefit scum. There was no town reason to pursue that shaky a plan. Round claiming was a bad idea.

I do think it's too bad [post restriction], I'll tell you after the game.

I don't think (post restriction) matters. Take that as you will.

As he's fought faust and you're you, I'd love to see what ash's original thoughts were when he called for the round claim. If he said them and I missed them, please quote them for me, thanks in advance.

He said he was trying to catch scum in a lie. It would be pointless to lie as scum since the numbers have to add up. But he got almost everyone to follow him.

Wait. That was it?

Vote: ash while he answers. L-?, I remember a bunch of votes.

that's L-6 for Ash (and LaLight). mail-mi is at L-5.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok, I spent the afternoon rereading. I'm sorry I've been a bit AWOL. liopoil is back from college (sad for him, but nice for us), and we've been doing impossible puzzles from an event at his school. I'm sticking with my ash vote. Creating chaos, doubling and tripling down on faust, and concocting a plan that would only benefit scum. There was no town reason to pursue that shaky a plan. Round claiming was a bad idea.

I do think it's too bad [post restriction], I'll tell you after the game.

I’m glad liopoil is back. It’s so much less stress to have everyone together, even if it does enhance the otherworldly stir-craziness.

[A Drowned Kernel]

You know what, I just reread mail-mi and I am thinking

Vote: mail-mi

A lot of going with the flow.
The pseudo-useful post about quantity of scum

Not a perfect case, but there you have it

I want to hear ADK talk about mail-mi first.  And not just the re-affirm vote he gave.

There was a post of his I didn't like, I'll try to find it

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

I think draft order is a little too much info that's helpful to scum, not town.

How does dividing town into two essentially arbitrary groups help us?

I guess it was this? It seems like a made up answer. I'm not super gung ho about a mail-mi lynch but I'm feeling pretty town on most of the louder people (ash, faust, cayvie) and am not sure why some people are opposed to lynching mail-mi

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.6:


Mail-Mi (4): Jimmm, LaLight, E!, ADK
Ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
LaLight (3):  WCD, Cayvie, MailMi
Scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
RaptorSlayer (1): Glooble
Shraeye (1): RaptorSlayer
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1):  Lekkit,

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.


*A note from the MODs - please remember this is a game to have fun in. Please keep everything in the game, game-related, and respect your fellow players.*

[WestCoastDidds]

Saturday night isolation style....

Baking sourdough bread, drinking beer, and watching Top Chef!

Party on, excellent!

[cayvie]

Saturday night isolation style....

Baking sourdough bread, drinking beer, and watching Top Chef!

Party on, excellent!

a cooking reality show themed mafia game sounds fun! like a bake-off game where you can have night actions to affect each others bakes or something

[faust]

I feel like the mail-mi and ashersky wagons have no substance, it's all being scumread for their playstyles.

There is a LaLight wagon but at the moment I cannot remember why. Which I guess is better than remembering why and finding the reason unconvincing.

It's not the worst to go for a lurker lynch today, but I think I'd prefer someone like Raptor or Lekkit if we go there. And of course we still have decent lynch choices in scolapasta and e.

[ashersky]

Ok, I spent the afternoon rereading. I'm sorry I've been a bit AWOL. liopoil is back from college (sad for him, but nice for us), and we've been doing impossible puzzles from an event at his school. I'm sticking with my ash vote. Creating chaos, doubling and tripling down on faust, and concocting a plan that would only benefit scum. There was no town reason to pursue that shaky a plan. Round claiming was a bad idea.

I do think it's too bad [post restriction], I'll tell you after the game.

I don't think (post restriction) matters. Take that as you will.

As he's fought faust and you're you, I'd love to see what ash's original thoughts were when he called for the round claim. If he said them and I missed them, please quote them for me, thanks in advance.

He said he was trying to catch scum in a lie. It would be pointless to lie as scum since the numbers have to add up. But he got almost everyone to follow him.

Wait. That was it?

Vote: ash while he answers. L-?, I remember a bunch of votes.

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

[ashersky]

[out of game voice]faust -- I read and acknowledge your reply.  I'm sorry you think I don't like you -- in actuality you are top tier for me as far as anyone I know on the Internet.  Wicked smart and funny, a fellow creative mod and game designer, and a worthy teammate or opponent.  If my in-game antics have led you to think I felt the opposite outside of the mafiaverse, I apologize.

I know I can be as grating as anyone, and I was needling you pretty consistently on something that I am sure frustrated you.  I didn't appreciate the way you chose to respond; I have a pretty thick skin, so I'm fine after a bit of time, but not everyone is as resilient, I don't think.  Issues of self-worth and self-confidence have become yet another all too real part of the bad side of the Internet (and the world, I guess). So again, thanks for the thoughtful response.[/out of game voice]

[ashersky]

Lurker lynch isn't the worst -- I like Lekkit for that.  That's NAI though.

I guess a side effect of a few players talking a lot on a few topics is that there aren't a lot of options for scummy players to do scummy things.

[ashersky]

Between you guys, faust is scummy.

No no, I didn't want that narrow of an answer.  I mean, in this game, the full 16 player list we're thinking about, what opinions do you have other than a philosophical position against faust?

I did a popsquiz between the post you quote and your clarification.  So that's my basic spectrum.

[ashersky]

Between you guys, faust is scummy.

No no, I didn't want that narrow of an answer.  I mean, in this game, the full 16 player list we're thinking about, what opinions do you have other than a philosophical position against faust?

I did a popsquiz between the post you quote and your clarification.  So that's my basic spectrum.

I mean, it's day 1.  I'm happy to have one strong scum read.  I'm also happy to "trim the fat," as it were, by removing a player that isn't contributing, or that sits in the neutral zone between pro- and anti-town.

[ashersky]

Also, LL is towny so far when taking into consideration his District QT posts.

[MiX]

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

I guess I always expect more of you.

Unvote

[2.71828.....]

Also, LL is towny so far when taking into consideration his District QT posts.

Yeah, I was curious about this. I feel like LaLight hasn't posted a ton in thread, or at least less than I would expect.

But I could also totally see them posting more of their thoughts in a shared qt rather than in thread

[shraeye]

Between you guys, faust is scummy.

No no, I didn't want that narrow of an answer.  I mean, in this game, the full 16 player list we're thinking about, what opinions do you have other than a philosophical position against faust?

I did a popsquiz between the post you quote and your clarification.  So that's my basic spectrum.

popsquizzes are lame; no substance

[shraeye]

I mean, it's day 1.  I'm happy to have one strong scum read.  I'm also happy to "trim the fat," as it were, by removing a player that isn't contributing, or that sits in the neutral zone between pro- and anti-town.

This is better

[LaLight]

Also, LL is towny so far when taking into consideration his District QT posts.

Yeah, I was curious about this. I feel like LaLight hasn't posted a ton in thread, or at least less than I would expect.

But I could also totally see them posting more of their thoughts in a shared qt rather than in thread

i actually have never been in a neighbourhood, after hundreds of games

i have been in masonry couple  of times, but this thing is different. although, at one point i have made a decision to trust ash completely, so here goes

[EFHW]

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

I guess I always expect more of you.

Unvote

It doesn't bother you that the claiming was hurtful to town?

[MiX]

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

I guess I always expect more of you.

Unvote

It doesn't bother you that the claiming was hurtful to town?

It could've helped town if certain people had followed through, and plans aren't scummy by themselves.

[faust]

Well, scolapasta is clearly going nowhere, might as well

Vote: MiX

[EFHW]

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

I guess I always expect more of you.

Unvote

It doesn't bother you that the claiming was hurtful to town?

It could've helped town if certain people had followed through, and plans aren't scummy by themselves.

Why not?

What benefit would you have now if I had followed through?

[MiX]

It could've helped town if certain people had followed through, and plans aren't scummy by themselves.

Why not?

What benefit would you have now if I had followed through?

I supported the round claim, so it can't inherently be scummy. Not to mention it seems perfectly in line with ash. NAI at best.

It would (and will) have some benefit down the line and right now is the best time to round claim because then people start dying and we lose information. Also scum has no reason to lie if we do it early, so we get truth.

[shraeye]

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

I guess I always expect more of you.

Unvote

It doesn't bother you that the claiming was hurtful to town?

Town is hurt?  I don't buy it.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, LL is towny so far when taking into consideration his District QT posts.

Hmmm....this is good to know. I believe Ash to be town (at least for now, he has fooled me before, so there is that) so I’m willing to trust his assessment for now.

I’ve been voting for LL for awhile now, but not for any reason of substance, just general feelings.

Vote: Lekkit

I have no reason not to find them scummy at this point... I have a slight preference for them over Raptor because there was that one game one time that raptor was awesome on D2.

PPE...a rather interesting discussion with MiX

[MiX]

So many people looking towny, and because of all the neighborhoods I have a strange feeling of not wanting to lynch anyone.

Vote: Lekkit

I have no reason not to find them scummy at this point... I have a slight preference for them over Raptor because there was that one game one time that raptor was awesome on D2.

Hey! You take that back if you're referring to what I believe you are referring to! How could I have known 

I'm having a strange third-party read off Didds here, actually. Feels like she knows much more than she's letting us know, but not necessarily in a scummy way. Not lynching anyway, hoods do this.

[shraeye]

I'm having a strange third-party read off Didds here, actually. Feels like she knows much more than she's letting us know, but not necessarily in a scummy way. Not lynching anyway, hoods do this.

How would a third-party know more than a town member?

[WestCoastDidds]

So many people looking towny, and because of all the neighborhoods I have a strange feeling of not wanting to lynch anyone.

Vote: Lekkit

I have no reason not to find them scummy at this point... I have a slight preference for them over Raptor because there was that one game one time that raptor was awesome on D2.

Hey! You take that back if you're referring to what I believe you are referring to! How could I have known 

I'm having a strange third-party read off Didds here, actually. Feels like she knows much more than she's letting us know, but not necessarily in a scummy way. Not lynching anyway, hoods do this.

But you have to admit, it does move Raptor up on the utility list over Lekkit, yeah?

No one seems scummy, everyone seems scummy. Trimming the fat, needs some sort of tie break, although I recognize that we have two more days to figure stuff out.

[EFHW]

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

I guess I always expect more of you.

Unvote

It doesn't bother you that the claiming was hurtful to town?

Town is hurt?  I don't buy it.

If there are any scum in r2, they are super pleased right now.

[ashersky]

Answer what?  I explained it all in detail, and someone even complained that I gave away too much information in my explanation.  But yes, the short of it is I wanted to catch someone in a lie.  (There was also the possibility that there could be shenanigans with the draft we didn't know, so that seemed like a useful thing to pick up on.)

I guess I always expect more of you.

Unvote

It doesn't bother you that the claiming was hurtful to town?

Town is hurt?  I don't buy it.

If there are any scum in r2, they are super pleased right now.

Super pleased?  Please explain.

At best, they know a subset of players with a possible subset of items. If you think that helps them so much that they are “super pleased,” you know more than the average player about something.

From my perspective, we gave scum very little.  Sure, r2 is smaller so the subset is smaller, but the items are still unknowns, as is who has what.

The absolute best case I can come up with is if I were scum, last to pick, and had exactly the right number of misses on my list to narrow the group’s items even more.  And then I still don’t know who got what.

[EFHW]

Ok, maybe some hyperbole there, but no one has explained to my satisfaction what benefit town received, or would receive if I claimed.

[MiX]

Ok, maybe some hyperbole there, but no one has explained to my satisfaction what benefit town received, or would receive if I claimed.

The end of the round claim, which is at least a minimal benefit to town as opposed to worth absolutely nothing for scum. No I'm not telling you what the benefit is, that would ruin the whole purpose of it.

At this point I'd love to see what the downside to ending it could ever be.

But you have to admit, it does move Raptor up on the utility list over Lekkit, yeah?

That would be true, if Lekkit wasn't my neighbor. I like what they're doing there, slight town points for it overall.

Vote: Jimmmmm for having fooled me before, not seeing anything especially towny from them, a few people who I need to reread are also ones I'm against lynching on a fundamental level, so Jimmmmm's a good lynch I believe, possibly the best.

[WestCoastDidds]

MIx, can you shed some more info about Lekkit? What are they doing that you like?

[MiX]

MIx, can you shed some more info about Lekkit? What are they doing that you like?

Sharing a lot of their thought process, asking for what I think about certain posts, being careful about their information and reads, cooperating...overall something that I really don't want to lose D1. I don't find them especially towny, but that's enough for a D1 pass for me.

[Lekkit]

I think Ash and e are most likely town. I would prefer not to lynch MiX, shraeye, Scolo or cayvie. Probably not faust either.

[cayvie]

...huh, I was going to ask WCD why Lekkit over raptor--my gut said that Lekkit was townier, between the two--and then I reread them.

I think if I was going to choose between those two, I would also vote Lekkit. Sure, raptor's said some scummy-sounding things (in particular that line of not wanting to look scummy) but at least raptor's shared opinions on things other than the setup.

It took until his most recent post for Lekkit to share an opinion about another player in this thread. I'm not exaggerating.

vote: Lekkit

[shraeye]

I think Ash and e are most likely town. I would prefer not to lynch MiX, shraeye, Scolo or cayvie. Probably not faust either.

I'm liking that whole list except Scolapasta.  What's the hesitation there?

[shraeye]

Also. I want to know why people are jumping on the Scola wagon.

You think they shouldn't have?

Which brings me back to this unanswered question.  Add to it "why?"

[Lekkit]

Also. I want to know why people are jumping on the Scola wagon.

You think they shouldn't have?

Which brings me back to this unanswered question.  Add to it "why?"

Actually not sure I want to elaborate that too much. But to answer the first question. I don't think people should've just joined in without much questioning. The case is... Very flimsy at best.

[Lekkit]

For the record, MiX now knows my role.

[MiX]

For the record, MiX now knows my role.

Lekkit is town, you can go ahead and move to other wagons now.

[mail-mi]

For the record, MiX now knows my role.

Lekkit is town, you can go ahead and move to other wagons now.

Uh, role power has nothing to do with towniness or scumminess. This is nonevidence.

[MiX]

For the record, MiX now knows my role.

Lekkit is town, you can go ahead and move to other wagons now.

Uh, role power has nothing to do with towniness or scumminess. This is nonevidence.

Who said it's evidence? I'm just saying Lekkit's town. The level of confidence and reasons behind it are private.

On the other hand, we could move on other wagons, that would be much more productive.

[Lekkit]

On the other hand, we could move on other wagons, that would be much more productive.

This is very true.

Vote: mail-mi

[cayvie]

Intra-district reads summary

District 1
shraeye thinks scola is scummy
scola thinks shraeye is towny

District 2
faust has not expressed a direct opinion on glooble as far as i can find, but has shared info with him and hasn't pushed a case, so i'm guessing faust thinks he's towny (lots of posts tho, mighta missed it)
glooble thinks faust is towny

District 3
jimmmmm thinks e is towny
e thinks jimmmmm is towny

District 4
LaLight has not expressed an opinion on Ash
Ash thinks LaLight is towny

District 5
WCD thinks ADK is towny
ADK thinks WCD is towny

District 6
Lekkit thinks MiX is towny (at least, he "prefer not to lynch" MiX today)
MiX thinks Lekkit is towny

District 7
raptor has not expressed an opinion on mail-mi
mail-mi thinks raptor is scummy

District 8
cayvie thinks EFHW is towny
EFHW thinks cayvie is towny

did i miss anyone? did i misrepresent anyone? has anyone changed their opinion since they last posted about their neighbor?

LaLight, raptor, faust: do you have a read on your neighbor?

[cayvie]

oh gfd i had to go and use MLA formatting there when quoting and make everything strikethrough of course

[cayvie]

in case you missed it because of the strikethru:

raptor, LaLight, faust: do you have a read on your neighbor?

[scolapasta]

I actually lean scummy on Shraeye. Not in a way where I'd definitively say "Shraeye is scum", but they are on my short list.

[cayvie]

I actually lean scummy on Shraeye. Not in a way where I'd definitively say "Shraeye is scum", but they are on my short list.

you're absolutely right, my bad.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.7:


Mail-Mi (5): Jimmm, LaLight, E!, ADK, Lekkit
Ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Lekkit (2): WCD, Cayvie
LaLight (1):  MailMi
Scolapasta (1): Shraeye
RaptorSlayer (1): Glooble
Shraeye (1): RaptorSlayer
faust (1): Ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): MiX
MiX (1): faust

Not Voting (0):   

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is in just under 3 days!

[mail-mi]

On the other hand, we could move on other wagons, that would be much more productive.

This is very true.

Vote: mail-mi

Not productive. No one else gonna join me on LaLight?

[shraeye]

On the other hand, we could move on other wagons, that would be much more productive.

This is very true.

Vote: mail-mi

Not productive. No one else gonna join me on LaLight?

I'm not; so far he's LaLight-y.

[shraeye]

Well, i take that back.  I might.  But not now

[cayvie]

Not productive. No one else gonna join me on LaLight?

I'm not; so far he's LaLight-y.

is scolapasta being scolapasta-y?

[WestCoastDidds]

Is LaLight being LaLight Lite, tho, like Diet Shraeye?

[WestCoastDidds]

Glooble is on this game?

Vote: Glooble

[faust]

raptor, LaLight, faust: do you have a read on your neighbor?

Not one that at would like to share at this point.

[faust]

On the other hand, we could move on other wagons, that would be much more productive.

This is very true.

Vote: mail-mi

Not productive. No one else gonna join me on LaLight?

You could join me on MiX instead.

[shraeye]

Sounds better.

Vote: Mix

[shraeye]

Not productive. No one else gonna join me on LaLight?

I'm not; so far he's LaLight-y.

is scolapasta being scolapasta-y?

Sure

[LaLight]

Well, i take that back.  I might.  But not now

what changed?

[LaLight]

Towny on ash

[cayvie]

Revised Intra-district reads summary

District 1
shraeye thinks scola is scummy
scola thinks shraeye is scummy

District 2
faust's thoughts are his own
glooble thinks faust is towny

District 3
jimmmmm thinks e is towny
e thinks jimmmmm is towny

District 4
LaLight thinks Ash is towny
Ash thinks LaLight is towny

District 5
WCD thinks ADK is towny
ADK thinks WCD is towny

District 6
Lekkit thinks MiX is towny
MiX thinks Lekkit is towny

District 7
raptor has not expressed an opinion on mail-mi
mail-mi thinks raptor is scummy

District 8
cayvie thinks EFHW is towny
EFHW thinks cayvie is towny

premise A: on average, a townperson's view on their neighbor is more informed and therefore more accurate than their view on another player.
premise B1: a scumster is more likely to express mistrust of their neighbor if they think their neighbor suspects them
premise B2: a scumster is more likely to express mistrust of their neighbor if they think their neighbor will be an easy lynch

with these premises in mind, i'd like to lynch someone in one of the neighborhoods where there's some friction. (also i got a pretty hard townread on MiX when he and I appeared to come to the same conclusion about draft order claiming at the same time. that felt genuine, even if i'm no longer so sure massclaiming draft order is necessary at this time.)

vote: mail-mi

[EFHW]

Premise C: Talking one to one increases trust.

[WestCoastDidds]

Raptor, do you have a read on mail-mi?

[mail-mi]

Raptor has said about 2 things in our district QT so far. There is nothing to read from him in there; my scum read comes from in-thread stuff.

[mail-mi]

What can I say to get people to not lynch me? I've responded to every "case" that's been given on me so far, and I think Faust put it best when he said you're "lynching mail-mi because he's mail-mi."

[cayvie]

Premise C: Talking one to one increases trust.

if true, that should be a blanket effect across the board, right?

[Jimmmmm]

Unvote

Catching up soon.

[mail-mi]

Premise C: Talking one to one increases trust.

if true, that should be a blanket effect across the board, right?

And you can see that it increases trust for most except district 1 and 7, which I would consider a pretty blanket effect.

[EFHW]

Premise C: Talking one to one increases trust.

if true, that should be a blanket effect across the board, right?

This is why I dislike all generalizations.

[EFHW]

What can I say to get people to not lynch me? I've responded to every "case" that's been given on me so far, and I think Faust put it best when he said you're "lynching mail-mi because he's mail-mi."

This isn't much of an argument. Didn't you say, when you came back, that you were a brand new mail-mi?

[EFHW]

Raptor has said about 2 things in our district QT so far. There is nothing to read from him in there; my scum read comes from in-thread stuff.

See? If you guys communicated more, you would have a stronger relationship!

[EFHW]

On the other hand, we could move on other wagons, that would be much more productive.

This is very true.

Vote: mail-mi

Not productive. No one else gonna join me on LaLight?

Are you sure you aren't voting Lalight for just being Lalight?

[EFHW]

I actually lean scummy on Shraeye. Not in a way where I'd definitively say "Shraeye is scum", but they are on my short list.

Is he participating in your qt?

[EFHW]

It would be good for those on 1 person wagons to start thinking about consolidating.

[WestCoastDidds]

Raptor has said about 2 things in our district QT so far. There is nothing to read from him in there; my scum read comes from in-thread stuff.

See? If you guys communicated more, you would have a stronger relationship!

See?!? This is why community matters! Strong, healthy relationships. also, the reason I have a job. All hail communication!

I will definitely consolidate on it before the 24th. Mail-mi is st L-3, I think.

[EFHW]

I feel like MiX is being a bit different this game. Usually he is scumhunting much more, skipping his vote around to feel people out, with usually helpful results.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think Cayvie’s chart is really interesting.

I agree that chattting generally build trust, but that does make it even more notable when it fails. I think it is somewhat scummy to avoid chatting because I can see someone not wanting to slip up or have to keep too many things straight. But it’s easy to fool one person, so not rock solid. I’ve had lots of neighborhoods in the past...and y’all know I am super chatty, but in my limited experience, folks who turned out to be scum communicated with me way less than town people did.

So, I also think the friction is interesting.

Faust, are you hearing more from Glooble in the cutie than on the game?

[EFHW]

I don't understand how MiX is backing up ash's plan.

[WestCoastDidds]

I feel like MiX is being a bit different this game. Usually he is scumhunting much more, skipping his vote around to feel people out, with usually helpful results.

This is a good point, and def in his scum persona. I should have some time to reread tomorrow.

[cayvie]

Premise C: Talking one to one increases trust.

if true, that should be a blanket effect across the board, right?

And you can see that it increases trust for most except district 1 and 7, which I would consider a pretty blanket effect.

does it?

isn't 4-ish scum reads about what you'd expect with random reads?

[mail-mi]

I feel like MiX is being a bit different this game. Usually he is scumhunting much more, skipping his vote around to feel people out, with usually helpful results.

Hmm, you have a point. I'll have to look him over.

[mail-mi]

On the other hand, we could move on other wagons, that would be much more productive.

This is very true.

Vote: mail-mi

Not productive. No one else gonna join me on LaLight?

Are you sure you aren't voting Lalight for just being Lalight?

I don't like his votes right now, as I pointed out before. I'll look him and MiX tomorrow.

[mail-mi]

Glooble is on this game?

Vote: Glooble

I know that Glooble said work is really busy right now, so I'm giving him a bit of a pass.

[faust]

Faust, are you hearing more from Glooble in the cutie than on the game?

No; he's also not around in the QT. He was somewhat more active there prior to game start.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Sorry that I have been MIA most of the day, I'm used to a much slower D1. I'm also admittedly not the best D1 scum hunter, And lean more to the observation portion, but I understand not getting involved isnt the play and will work on that for the remainder of the day.

I did a brief read through of what Ive missed.. will do an more extensive one in the morning

But for now my opinion on MailMi - We have not talked much, that could be the fact that he thinks i'm scummy and i'm a not a talkative person, based off what I've seen in the main thread I would lean toward him being town if i had to choose.

In addition, my scum short list would be MiX, Shraeye and LaLight. Cayvie and 2.7 would be town for me, for now, feeling pretty null on everyone else

[2.71828.....]

Raptor has said about 2 things in our district QT so far. There is nothing to read from him in there; my scum read comes from in-thread stuff.

What is the scum read based on?

[2.71828.....]

I would usually have cayvie 100% town at this point, I just don't trust them since they had me tricked in less pressure.

[Glooble]

sorry I disappeared. It’s been a combination of work, very poor sleep due to anxiety, and animal crossing. I’ll trying and reread some folks today.

[MiX]

It would be good for those on 1 person wagons to start thinking about consolidating.

What can we even consolidate towards? mail-mi? Raptor? Seems low effort, mail-mi is being himself and I forgot what raptor's been doing.

I feel like MiX is being a bit different this game. Usually he is scumhunting much more, skipping his vote around to feel people out, with usually helpful results.

It's hard to scumhunt when you've been scum a bunch of times in a row and the one town game I had I didn't even get to have reads. Seriously, I'm out of practice. I still think I struck gold on the Jimmmmm vote, and my vote hopping helped getting there, also helps that I put a bunch of people out of my lynch list for today due to mechanical reasons.

[Glooble]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

I think draft order is a little too much info that's helpful to scum, not town.

How does dividing town into two essentially arbitrary groups help us?

Honestly, I'm not sure. However, it is information, and more information is almost always better, and I don't see how it can help scum.

I just ISO’d mail-mi. I’m going to reread a few others before I vote, but I wanted to highlight this whole exchange cause it’s the scummiest thing I found. It feels like he’s hoping someone else will fill in the blanks on why round claiming is useful, but then when he’s called out on it he doesn’t really have an answer. The feel like town!mail-mi is more thoughtful about his actions than that.

[shraeye]

I actually lean scummy on Shraeye. Not in a way where I'd definitively say "Shraeye is scum", but they are on my short list.

Is he participating in your qt?

We're on post 66 there, we've probably both contributed around half, probably more like 60/40 with me posting more.

[shraeye]

Well, i take that back.  I might.  But not now

what changed?

I looked back at my notes, and was reminded of one thing you did one time that raised one eyebrow.

[mail-mi]

I think I find myself agreeing with e most here. Also I don't see the harm in round claiming, which is why I did it. There is a sort of benefit in dividing town into two groups, which can help with PoE.

I think draft order is a little too much info that's helpful to scum, not town.

How does dividing town into two essentially arbitrary groups help us?

Honestly, I'm not sure. However, it is information, and more information is almost always better, and I don't see how it can help scum.

I just ISO’d mail-mi. I’m going to reread a few others before I vote, but I wanted to highlight this whole exchange cause it’s the scummiest thing I found. It feels like he’s hoping someone else will fill in the blanks on why round claiming is useful, but then when he’s called out on it he doesn’t really have an answer. The feel like town!mail-mi is more thoughtful about his actions than that.

I can tell you exactly what happened there. People said "let's round claim!" And I thought "yeah that's a good idea." Then, ADK and others started asking me why it was a good idea, and I tried to think of reasons, and that's all I could come up with. So I thought a little bit more and, you can see later, I changed my mind. Unfortunately that change came too late, but it did come.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Vote: Mix

[mail-mi]

I have no reason not to find them scummy at this point... I have a slight preference for them over Raptor because there was that one game one time that raptor was awesome on D2.

Could you point this game out to me? I'd like to see it.

[mail-mi]

So I reread MiX, and I can see the general "doesn't feel like normal MiX" feeling. I would be willing to join, but both EFHW and Raptor are on the wagon and they're some of my other scum reads, so I'm wary.

In other news, I found some more stuff on LaLight while I was rereading MiX, so I'm gonna see if I can pull a case together and convince some people before deadline.

[mail-mi]

Okay, I've reread all 24 of LaLight's posts, and I'm still pretty confident with my vote on them.

Here's my D1-case:

- Voting history: LaLight jumped on the Scola wagon when it first formed and my wagon, with no real reasons. So there's opportunistic voting here.
- Most posts are short, and many of them are just fluff, with only a few content forming posts.
- This:

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

is not really a defense, scum could also be high-up in the draft order. Not necessarily alignment-indicative, but not a good defense.
- This:

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does. So this makes LaLight more scummy.

Here is my D1 LaLight case, maybe not the strongest thing, but good enough for D1. Let's lynch him.

[WestCoastDidds]

I have no reason not to find them scummy at this point... I have a slight preference for them over Raptor because there was that one game one time that raptor was awesome on D2.

Could you point this game out to me? I'd like to see it.

It's in the Poker Mafia (M125, I think) game that DatSwan ran a few months back, messages 829-849... This is how it began:

Alright, as good of time as any to say this at this point. I cop’d MIX last night and that are confirmed not numerically aligned. I am 1 shot cop. I didn’t want to come out with this right when the day opened to try and get Mix to share as much of there scum opinion as possible. I’m still catching up on reading from the past few hours but I decided to do it now so we have some time to discuss things before the day ends. Vote: Mix

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, I've reread all 24 of LaLight's posts, and I'm still pretty confident with my vote on them.

Here's my D1-case:

- Voting history: LaLight jumped on the Scola wagon when it first formed and my wagon, with no real reasons. So there's opportunistic voting here.
- Most posts are short, and many of them are just fluff, with only a few content forming posts.
- This:

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

is not really a defense, scum could also be high-up in the draft order. Not necessarily alignment-indicative, but not a good defense.
- This:

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does. So this makes LaLight more scummy.

Here is my D1 LaLight case, maybe not the strongest thing, but good enough for D1. Let's lynch him.

This was my thought about LaLight as well. I do not think we have reason to believe that is a bad lynch

I still need to go back and read MiX carefully, but I am knee deep in boring administrative work right now so I don't have time right now. In a Mail-mi v MiX world, I am more willing to vote for MiX, just on my sense that is playing with a deliberateness that seems uncharacteristic. But he has been scum a lot recently so maybe my meta-meter is off, I don't know. Still, in the interest of consolidation

vote: MiX

[MiX]

I have no reason not to find them scummy at this point... I have a slight preference for them over Raptor because there was that one game one time that raptor was awesome on D2.

Could you point this game out to me? I'd like to see it.

It's in the Poker Mafia (M125, I think) game that DatSwan ran a few months back, messages 829-849... This is how it began:

Alright, as good of time as any to say this at this point. I cop’d MIX last night and that are confirmed not numerically aligned. I am 1 shot cop. I didn’t want to come out with this right when the day opened to try and get Mix to share as much of there scum opinion as possible. I’m still catching up on reading from the past few hours but I decided to do it now so we have some time to discuss things before the day ends. Vote: Mix

I was a letter! Actually I wasn't, it's complicated...

Also, cool wagon on me, who's driving, faust? That means he's scum, but is there support for that lynch?

PPE: Really...

[MiX]

Can someone reread Jimmmmm and see that the few posts he made are basically solely about the setup/ash's thinking? Jimmmmmm would do much more than that as town.

[2.71828.....]

Can someone reread Jimmmmm and see that the few posts he made are basically solely about the setup/ash's thinking? Jimmmmmm would do much more than that as town.

I am also starting to doubt my initial qt town read on jimmmm.

This is somewhat of a stretch as well as calling partners way too early, but jimmmmm posted a list of all the items and thoughts on what several of them might be.

Crazy theory that has no evidence to back it up:

faust/jimmmm are both scum. Scum talk about what the items could be in their qt. Seeking some town cred from their qt-mates, both faust and jimmmm share these thoughts in their respective district qts.

Although, I forget, faust did share his thoughts in the district qt, right? I lost track/quit caring somewhere halfway between the faust/ashersky debate.

Anyway, I am not saying we compare lists from the respective qts, because that wouldn't be any sort of proof. I mean, if they are identical, yes. But that won't be the case. They will be individual takes on the items.

What I am saying is that scum could have discussed that doing something like that may give town cred to your qt-mate. And then jimmmm took that suggestion and decided to do it. And maybe faust did too.

Again, this is circumstancial at best, but it makes me wonder

[WestCoastDidds]

Interesting...I was definitely basing a bunch of my Jimmmm assurance on e's read.

I posted all of the items in our QT and then started making guesses because that is the way I process things.  But my guesses were really weak, broad categories with lots of questions marks (or example, flask is doctory??). faust's list sounded way more precise based on the exchange about it. How was Jimmmm's list?

[cayvie]

Sorry that I have been MIA most of the day, I'm used to a much slower D1. I'm also admittedly not the best D1 scum hunter, And lean more to the observation portion, but I understand not getting involved isnt the play and will work on that for the remainder of the day.

I did a brief read through of what Ive missed.. will do an more extensive one in the morning

But for now my opinion on MailMi - We have not talked much, that could be the fact that he thinks i'm scummy and i'm a not a talkative person, based off what I've seen in the main thread I would lean toward him being town if i had to choose.

In addition, my scum short list would be MiX, Shraeye and LaLight. Cayvie and 2.7 would be town for me, for now, feeling pretty null on everyone else

unvote

do you think shraeye is bussing MiX right now, then?

[cayvie]

Can someone reread Jimmmmm and see that the few posts he made are basically solely about the setup/ash's thinking? Jimmmmmm would do much more than that as town.

i can get on board with this. it might just be a timing/personal life matter, but it's fishy to me that he was quite involved in the ash/faust business but not so much in the rest of the game. similar to my thoughts about scolapasta, really, but jimmmmm is an even stronger example.

vote: jimmmmm

[2.71828.....]

Interesting...I was definitely basing a bunch of my Jimmmm assurance on e's read.

I posted all of the items in our QT and then started making guesses because that is the way I process things.  But my guesses were really weak, broad categories with lots of questions marks (or example, flask is doctory??). faust's list sounded way more precise based on the exchange about it. How was Jimmmm's list?

I mean, they seemed to be just guesses. The point isn't necessarily if the guesses were right, but is that something that scum discussed N0 as being something that could potentially give them town points.

Again, not a reason to vote for jimmmm (or faust), but if you add up all the non-reasons suddenly you get to a vote

[2.71828.....]

Which I am not there yet.

I like some of the defense mail-mi has given, but have not been convinced to jump wagon

[2.71828.....]

MiX is a bad D1 lynch.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Sorry that I have been MIA most of the day, I'm used to a much slower D1. I'm also admittedly not the best D1 scum hunter, And lean more to the observation portion, but I understand not getting involved isnt the play and will work on that for the remainder of the day.

I did a brief read through of what Ive missed.. will do an more extensive one in the morning

But for now my opinion on MailMi - We have not talked much, that could be the fact that he thinks i'm scummy and i'm a not a talkative person, based off what I've seen in the main thread I would lean toward him being town if i had to choose.

In addition, my scum short list would be MiX, Shraeye and LaLight. Cayvie and 2.7 would be town for me, for now, feeling pretty null on everyone else

unvote

do you think shraeye is bussing MiX right now, then?

yup

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.8:


Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, E!, ADK, Lekkit
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, RaptorSlayer, WCD
Ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Jimmm (2): MiX, Cayvie
LaLight (1):  MailMi
RaptorSlayer (1): Glooble
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1): Jimmm


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is in just under 36 hours!

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I would still prefer Mix but would consider voting jimmmm if we need to consolidate come deadline. The last thing Jimmmm left us with was, 'catching up soon', yesterday. So I guess if we go back to the trimming fat concept he would be a decent candidate, but overall scum level.. not enough to judge. 

[MiX]

I would still prefer Mix but would consider voting jimmmm if we need to consolidate come deadline. The last thing Jimmmm left us with was, 'catching up soon', yesterday. So I guess if we go back to the trimming fat concept he would be a decent candidate, but overall scum level.. not enough to judge.

Not enough to judge is exactly why this is a good lynch. Scum Jimmmmm lurks, is what I remember last time I saw it and he slipped through the cracks.

[mail-mi]

Vote Count 1.8:


Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, E!, ADK, Lekkit
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, RaptorSlayer, WCD
Ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
LaLight (1):  MailMi
RaptorSlayer (1): Glooble
faust (1): Ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): MiX


Not Voting (2): Jimmm, Cayvie   

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is in just under 36 hours!

Cayvie is on Jimmmm.

I will stalwartly remain on LaLight for at least a couple more hours, maybe I can convince someone to join me. I could go either mix or jimmmm for a lunch if needed, preferably mix

[scolapasta]

Sorry, not much posting today; still figuring out WFH balance. My vote is still ash, but I asked a question and didn't notice anyone respond: is this his normal style of play?

(and my normal I mean, deliberately* and aggressively misunderstanding someone?)

* do people not agree that his disagreement seemed to be deliberate and not genuine?

That was and still is my reason my vote is on him, though if we need to consolidate I'll try to reevaluate some of the others.

[faust]

Sorry, not much posting today; still figuring out WFH balance. My vote is still ash, but I asked a question and didn't notice anyone respond: is this his normal style of play?

(and my normal I mean, deliberately* and aggressively misunderstanding someone?)

I think ash is very much within his normal meta. However, I don't think the misunderstanding is deliberate; I definitely had conversations with ash where it was hard for us to reach a mutual level of understanding out of games (specifically on probability stuff).

[faust]

I would still prefer Mix but would consider voting jimmmm if we need to consolidate come deadline. The last thing Jimmmm left us with was, 'catching up soon', yesterday. So I guess if we go back to the trimming fat concept he would be a decent candidate, but overall scum level.. not enough to judge.

Not enough to judge is exactly why this is a good lynch. Scum Jimmmmm lurks, is what I remember last time I saw it and he slipped through the cracks.

Town Jimmmmm also lurks. It's NAI. Not that I oppose lurker lynches, just thought I'd clear that up.

[faust]

PS: scolapasta, I we're waiting for you in Decrypto.

[faust]

Interesting...I was definitely basing a bunch of my Jimmmm assurance on e's read.

I posted all of the items in our QT and then started making guesses because that is the way I process things.  But my guesses were really weak, broad categories with lots of questions marks (or example, flask is doctory??). faust's list sounded way more precise based on the exchange about it. How was Jimmmm's list?

Not, my list was pretty much on par with your example. I don't even know flavor, so my ability to make smart guesses is limited.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX is a bad D1 lynch.

Why?!?

[Jimmmmm]

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does.

Scumslip? Surely scum has a harder time keeping track of which alignment they're meant to be talking about.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, top of my head thoughts before I do some more in-depth re-reads:

Lynch pool

LaLight
Mail-Mi
Lekkit
ADK
Raptor
EFHW
Glooble


Play style clashes with me but doesn't mean they're scum

MiX (although it's been stated that he's playing differently than normal so that warrants a re-read)
Ash


Lean Town

WCD
Shraeye


Do not want to lynch Today

Cayvie
e
Scolapasta
faust

[Lekkit]

MiX is a bad D1 lynch.

Why?!?

For me, it's mostly QT reasons.

[Lekkit]

For the rest of you, I'd like to know why.

[mail-mi]

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does.

Scumslip? Surely scum has a harder time keeping track of which alignment they're meant to be talking about.

Woops, second one should say town. also not a scum slip, just a mind slip

[LaLight]

something about mail-mi seems very off. As far as I remember his playstyle, he is playing less defensively and i would say a bit lighter? I mean it may be that mail-mi's style changed, because mine certainly did, but I would like to lynch him to see.

was I voting him? vote: mail-mi

[shraeye]

something about mail-mi seems very off. As far as I remember his playstyle, he is playing less defensively and i would say a bit lighter? I mean it may be that mail-mi's style changed, because mine certainly did, but I would like to lynch him to see.

was I voting him? vote: mail-mi

Is the fact that mail-mi's voting for you involved in this opinion at all?

[shraeye]

For the rest of you, I'd like to know why.

Why MiX? 

He's been ever present, but not in a memorable way.   

I'm having a strange third-party read off Didds here, actually. Feels like she knows much more than she's letting us know, but not necessarily in a scummy way.

There's this that I pointed out but it got lost in the noise.

All low hanging fruit.

mentions this about the ash/mailmi/laLight wagons, then proceeds to say that of all of them ash is the most towny because of how unnecessary his scumminess was seeming.  Only to vote for ash next (half an hour later)

Then goes for Jimmm, which is also low-hanging fruit.  (Well, used to be; not sure if Jimmm gets auto-lynched as much these years.  But he also plays less these years too)

[LaLight]

something about mail-mi seems very off. As far as I remember his playstyle, he is playing less defensively and i would say a bit lighter? I mean it may be that mail-mi's style changed, because mine certainly did, but I would like to lynch him to see.

was I voting him? vote: mail-mi

Is the fact that mail-mi's voting for you involved in this opinion at all?

what I think is that he just chose a pretty easy target, given that a lot of people already expressed a desire to lynch me, but that may be self-preservation of town, I guess

[shraeye]

Didds, thoughts on scolapasta?

scolapasta, thoughts on Didds?

[LaLight]

alright, it's not a long time until deadline, so I will partially claim.

I have fox ears which I guessed to be an investigative role which it actually is. That's it for now

[LaLight]

I guessed that Bow and Arrow is some kind of killing role, but I think I am bad at it, so I didn't try to take it.

[mail-mi]

alright, it's not a long time until deadline, so I will partially claim.

I have fox ears which I guessed to be an investigative role which it actually is. That's it for now

Hrmph. Might be worth keeping you alive for a night to see what your investigation shows.

vote: MiX

[Glooble]

I'm skeptical that Fox Ears would be an investigative role based on the flavor.

[LaLight]

I'm skeptical that Fox Ears would be an investigative role based on the flavor.

well

it is

[MiX]

alright, it's not a long time until deadline, so I will partially claim.

I have fox ears which I guessed to be an investigative role which it actually is. That's it for now

Hrmph. Might be worth keeping you alive for a night to see what your investigation shows.

vote: MiX

Yes, everyone vote MiX. Yaaaay.

What can I even say anymore, honestly I'm losing hope.

[Glooble]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

This is a scummy post given the amount of pressure on LaLight when it was made. I don't think town!LaLight soft claims in response to a single vote.

[Glooble]

Also, LaLight is acting like he's at L-1 when he has a single vote on him and it's not a good look.

vote: LaLight

Self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.

[mail-mi]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

This is a scummy post given the amount of pressure on LaLight when it was made. I don't think town!LaLight soft claims in response to a single vote.

I'd be happy to go back to lalight, I think he's still scummy. And an investigative role with scum could be bad for town

[mail-mi]

Also, LaLight is acting like he's at L-1 when he has a single vote on him and it's not a good look.

vote: LaLight

Self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.

Woop vote: lalight let's do this

[MiX]

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

This is a scummy post given the amount of pressure on LaLight when it was made. I don't think town!LaLight soft claims in response to a single vote.

Does he claim in response to...uh...still 1 I believe?

I remember a much more cool and collected LaLight when I was scum, but they might be fooling me. Not enough for me to move my vote there, but at this point I have to go anywhere for self-preservation.

PPE: Vote: LaLight. I really hate moving out of the Jimmmmmm. Don't forget about him!

[LaLight]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

[MiX]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

None. What's the reason to tell the truth?

[mail-mi]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

why did you claim at 1 vote?

[LaLight]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

why did you claim at 1 vote?

it was technically one vote, but more people wanted to lynch me then and I don't want to be lynched to be useful, so here goes.

[Jimmmmm]

Yes, everyone vote MiX. Yaaaay.

What can I even say anymore, honestly I'm losing hope.

What are you losing hope of?

[MiX]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

why did you claim at 1 vote?

it was technically one vote, but more people wanted to lynch me then and I don't want to be lynched to be useful, so here goes.

Being defensive isn't a good way to get people off your back, I should know.

Yes, everyone vote MiX. Yaaaay.

What can I even say anymore, honestly I'm losing hope.

What are you losing hope of?

Living today without claiming something. Honestly I don't really like any lynch other than yours that much.

[LaLight]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

why did you claim at 1 vote?

it was technically one vote, but more people wanted to lynch me then and I don't want to be lynched to be useful, so here goes.

Being defensive isn't a good way to get people off your back, I should know.

Yes, everyone vote MiX. Yaaaay.

What can I even say anymore, honestly I'm losing hope.

What are you losing hope of?

Living today without claiming something. Honestly I don't really like any lynch other than yours that much.

so why are you voting me? we have over 24 hours left.

[MiX]

The reaction was priceless.

Vote: Jimmmmm although I don't think it's happening today.

[Glooble]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

why did you claim at 1 vote?

it was technically one vote, but more people wanted to lynch me then and I don't want to be lynched to be useful, so here goes.

Being defensive isn't a good way to get people off your back, I should know.

Yes, everyone vote MiX. Yaaaay.

What can I even say anymore, honestly I'm losing hope.

What are you losing hope of?

Living today without claiming something. Honestly I don't really like any lynch other than yours that much.

so why are you voting me? we have over 24 hours left.

I thought the day ended tomorrow morning?

[LaLight]

                                                             Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (16): Scolapasta, Shraeye, faust, Glooble, Jimmmm, E!, LaLight, Ashersky, WCD, ADK, Lekkit, MiX, Raptor, Mail-Mi, EFHW, Cayvie

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th.


DAY 1 STARTS NOW! GOOD LUCK!

THREAD UNLOCKED

24 hours and 20 minutes

[A Drowned Kernel]

You guys

what if we no-lynched

[Jimmmmm]

what if we no-lynched

Explain.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I should be around for deadline, I still like my vote on mix, although the case on LL is looking not half bad. But I don't think that know if they could both be scum, with Mix voting LL at this point in time. Less then 24hrs but yet no clear lynch.

[cayvie]

For the rest of you, I'd like to know why.

I got a town read on him when talking about draft order claiming. His train of thought appeared to mirror mine so closely and so simultaneously that I would have a hard time believing he could be scum.

You guys

what if we no-lynched

I'm not 100 percent opposed. But there's like four people I'd be jazzed about lynching rn (raptor, jimmmmm, lalight, scolapasta) so I still have hope we can agree on someone

[EFHW]

You guys

what if we no-lynched

You mean on purpose? Cayvie had some data on that. Shraeye would like it. I'd have to be convinced.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, thoughts on scolapasta?

scolapasta, thoughts on Didds?

I find him somewhat scummy for finding you scummy after you made that assessment of him, but it’s hard to know for sure if it’s scummy or new to our game. So, I’m not going to vote for him.

[WestCoastDidds]

alright, it's not a long time until deadline, so I will partially claim.

I have fox ears which I guessed to be an investigative role which it actually is. That's it for now

Hrmph. Might be worth keeping you alive for a night to see what your investigation shows.

vote: MiX

Yes, everyone vote MiX. Yaaaay.

What can I even say anymore, honestly I'm losing hope.

I’m not sure about this response. Why so defeated?

[cayvie]

You guys

what if we no-lynched

You mean on purpose? Cayvie had some data on that. Shraeye would like it. I'd have to be convinced.

My data was specifically on M-series games, not RMM. I haven't analyzed those.

[scolapasta]

Didds, thoughts on scolapasta?

scolapasta, thoughts on Didds?

Currently more likely town than not.

I find him somewhat scummy for finding you scummy after you made that assessment of him, but it’s hard to know for sure if it’s scummy or new to our game. So, I’m not going to vote for him.

Is not appropriate to read someone who declares you are scum (with, in your opinion, fake evidence) as scum themselves? I mean why else would that happen?

[shraeye]

interesting

now everyone suddenly wants to lynch me asap. Pay attention to this trio of players who just voted me after claiming something which is potentially useful. Also what is the reason for me to lie?

If you vote MiX, we can learn what one third of that trio is all about.

[shraeye]

You guys

what if we no-lynched

Heeeyeyyyyyyyyy

but actually I don't like it in this context.

[A Drowned Kernel]

what if we no-lynched

Explain.

Not super serious, but there are quite a few players I would rather no-lynch than lynch right now

[mail-mi]

I will be around tomorrow before deadline so I'm gonna keep my vote on lalight for now, will move it later if need be.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.9:


Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, E!, ADK, Lekkit
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, RaptorSlayer, WCD
Ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Jimmm (2): Cayvie, MiX
LaLight (2):  Glooble, MailMi
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1): Jimmm


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is roughly 20 hours from now!

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read LaLight.

Overall I think he's pretty Towny. A couple of things mentioned against him I disagree with (such as that jumping on an early wagon is scummy - I agree with his sentiment that pressuring people is good.

A couple of things I noticed though:

scummy: EFHW, WCD, Raptor, e,
neutral-to-scummy: glooble, Lalight, lekkit,
neutral: ADK, Jimmmmm, cayvie, MiX
neutral-to-town: scola, faust
town: ash, shraeye, mail-mi

I agree with some of this....mostly that EFHW and raptor are playing under the radar. I think move Lekkt and LL to the scummy list instead of me, and drop e down a coup,e of notches, too, and we’re in business!

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

I disagree that WCD was "fixed on" LL.

These are her posts about him I found:

The scola wagon is based on nothing other than Shraye’s completely unsubstantiated assertion. That is typically Shraeye, but the follow along looks scummy to me

Vote: LaLight

LaLight’s move was also a very easy way to pretend to be scumhunting, especially since it was based on nothing but Shraeye’s pronouncement.

My townsfolk right now are Ash, MiX, cayvie, and ADK. Maybe Shraeye.

Not Glooble, LL, or EFHW

She had plenty of other posts after her specific comments on LL, and in the more recent ones she mentioned LL along with some others.

There's often the argument made that scum are more sensitive about being suspected than Town are, and that could apply in this case. But I'm also inclined to think that scum are quite aware of this sentiment and attempt to avoid acting that way. So for this particular point I give LL very minor scum points.

something about mail-mi seems very off. As far as I remember his playstyle, he is playing less defensively and i would say a bit lighter? I mean it may be that mail-mi's style changed, because mine certainly did, but I would like to lynch him to see.

was I voting him? vote: mail-mi

Two things on this: Unless it's specifically someone's meta, I don't see that playing lighter and less defensive than other times is an indication of scummyness. And proposing a lynch "to see" is a pretty poor reason I think. But it doesn't really feel like scum trying to find an excuse to vote for someone.

Also, while claiming at L-8 or whatever is a bit odd, it's probably best to give a claimed investigative role at least one Night to get some kind of result, so I am against lynching LL Today.

[2.71828.....]

Not going to be around at deadline unless I am up with the baby. Which he has been sleeping great so hopefully not.

I am really seeing 4 wagons here that in my mind could legitimately be d1 lynches:

Mail-mi- most preferred
Jimmmm- alternate

Big gap in between then....

LaLight- second least preferred
MiX- least preferred

I really don't see the people voting ashersky or faust being able to convince anyone to lynch there.

The other person I think could potentially be a late option is raptor. I need to do a few iso reads then come back with more thoughts

[2.71828.....]

Re-read LaLight.

-snip-

Also, while claiming at L-8 or whatever is a bit odd, it's probably best to give a claimed investigative role at least one Night to get some kind of result, so I am against lynching LL Today.

Basically sums up my thoughts on LaLight

[2.71828.....]

Actually, I am very against a LaLight lynch.

LaLight, why didn't you just claim in your qt with ashersky? I guess you may have already.

[2.71828.....]

Jimmmm, you feel like claiming your role in our lovely little qt? May influence me go to bat for you.

[Jimmmmm]

At this stage, probably not. If I legitimately look like being lynched I'll enter some kind of self-preservation mode, but not until.

[faust]

You guys

what if we no-lynched

Not terrible, but there's something to be said about trimming this game down to a more managable size.

[faust]

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does.

Scumslip? Surely scum has a harder time keeping track of which alignment they're meant to be talking about.

Weakest argument of the game award.

[Jimmmmm]

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does.

Scumslip? Surely scum has a harder time keeping track of which alignment they're meant to be talking about.

Weakest argument of the game award.

Any award's better than no award!

If I'm honest, when I started typing that post it was mostly a joke. But scum does have to type "I'm Town, hope we lynch scum" while thinking "I'm scum, hope we lynch Town"; I suspect that mistake is very slightly more likely to come from scum than scum.

[ashersky]

I can confirm LL claimed the same sort of claim in the QT awhile back.

I feel like claiming way too early is a NAI LL thing.

unvote

[Jimmmmm]

Also, I re-read mail-mi.

Nothing really jumped out at me except the scum/scum mistake, and his case on La-Light (#871).

I don't like his use of "pretty confident"; Town is not often pretty confident of any of their reads on Day 1; early confidence is a scumtell in my opinion.

I think using his vote on scola in case is pretty silly. It was early on Day 1, probably just outside RVS. Wagons are good at that point. Also, has faust received any scrutiny for his vote (not that he should), or just LL?

Short fluffy posts are common for Day 1, particularly for certain players.

So really the only part with any substance is the comment about WCD being "fixed on" him, and I don't think that's enough for any kind of confidence in the lynch.

But, similar to mail-mi's case on LL, it's not much.

So... slight scum on mail-mi.

[faust]

For what it's worth, I would still be very fine with an e lynch.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

For what it's worth, I would still be very fine with an e lynch.

What would be the reasoning behind it?

[faust]

For what it's worth, I would still be very fine with an e lynch.

What would be the reasoning behind it?

I think his claim makes more sense coming from scum, and his reads overall seem generic and uninspired. It's like he's doing everything to justify why he doesn't get nightkilled.

(e is, or at least was at some point, the player with the highest rate of being nightkilled)

[LaLight]

Actually, I am very against a LaLight lynch.

LaLight, why didn't you just claim in your qt with ashersky? I guess you may have already.

i did

[2.71828.....]

For what it's worth, I would still be very fine with an e lynch.

Let's wait for d2 for that kind of talk.

Just please, oh please, don't lynch me in my sleep. Lynch me all you want when I am awake and able to respond, just not in my sleep

[2.71828.....]

For what it's worth, I would still be very fine with an e lynch.

What would be the reasoning behind it?

I think his claim makes more sense coming from scum, and his reads overall seem generic and uninspired. It's like he's doing everything to justify why he doesn't get nightkilled.

(e is, or at least was at some point, the player with the highest rate of being nightkilled)

I mean, I shouldn't be nk'ed, I don't know how deeply I have detailed why that is the case

[ashersky]

For what it's worth, I would still be very fine with an e lynch.

What would be the reasoning behind it?

I think his claim makes more sense coming from scum, and his reads overall seem generic and uninspired. It's like he's doing everything to justify why he doesn't get nightkilled.

(e is, or at least was at some point, the player with the highest rate of being nightkilled)

I mean, I shouldn't be nk'ed, I don't know how deeply I have detailed why that is the case

I think the case for not being NK'ed is that if you are town, you are more likely to shoot town, which helps scum.
The other case for not being NK'ed is that you are scum.

In either case, not NK'ed.  And plenty of WIFOM now.  You are welcome.

[shraeye]

For what it's worth, I would still be very fine with an e lynch.

I'm still not.

[ashersky]

So deadline is tomorrow morning my time.  I will do my best to pop in for my duties.

[shraeye]

So deadline is tomorrow morning my time.  I will do my best to pop in for my duties.

Or you could do something now?

[mail-mi]

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does.

Scumslip? Surely scum has a harder time keeping track of which alignment they're meant to be talking about.

Weakest argument of the game award.

Any award's better than no award!

If I'm honest, when I started typing that post it was mostly a joke. But scum does have to type "I'm Town, hope we lynch scum" while thinking "I'm scum, hope we lynch Town"; I suspect that mistake is very slightly more likely to come from scum than scum.

Ah hah! Caught you, scum buddy!

[shraeye]

Vote: mail-mi

I like my new wagonmates more than my old wagonmates.

[shraeye]

Oh hey! Look who PPE'd that vote, I love coincidences!

[mail-mi]

Oh hey! Look who PPE'd that vote, I love coincidences!

Why hello there!

[shraeye]

So mailmi, in a world where LaLight's lynch isn't happening (this world), what other lynches would you want?

[ashersky]

So deadline is tomorrow morning my time.  I will do my best to pop in for my duties.

Or you could do something now?

No one is at L-1.

[mail-mi]

Jimmmmm makes some good points about LaLight, and with only a few hours til deadline, I don't think that lunch is gonna happen anyway. And it'll give LaLight a chance to prove his claim and maybe give us something useful. And there'll be time to look there tomorrow.

I think I prefer mix over jimmmmm.
vote: mix

[mail-mi]

So mailmi, in a world where LaLight's lynch isn't happening (this world), what other lynches would you want?

I just listed what I want out of the current viable ones. I'd also go for Raptor or EFHW, if those end up happening.

[MiX]

Jimmmmm makes some good points about LaLight, and with only a few hours til deadline, I don't think that lunch is gonna happen anyway. And it'll give LaLight a chance to prove his claim and maybe give us something useful. And there'll be time to look there tomorrow.

I think I prefer mix over jimmmmm.
vote: mix

L-what?

So mailmi, in a world where LaLight's lynch isn't happening (this world), what other lynches would you want?

I just listed what I want out of the current viable ones. I'd also go for Raptor or EFHW, if those end up happening.

Raptor's an okay lynch, EFHW not really, but what do I know.

[mail-mi]

Jimmmmm makes some good points about LaLight, and with only a few hours til deadline, I don't think that lunch is gonna happen anyway. And it'll give LaLight a chance to prove his claim and maybe give us something useful. And there'll be time to look there tomorrow.

I think I prefer mix over jimmmmm.
vote: mix

L-what?

So mailmi, in a world where LaLight's lynch isn't happening (this world), what other lynches would you want?

I just listed what I want out of the current viable ones. I'd also go for Raptor or EFHW, if those end up happening.

Raptor's an okay lynch, EFHW not really, but what do I know.

L-4 I think?

[shraeye]

So deadline is tomorrow morning my time.  I will do my best to pop in for my duties.

Or you could do something now?

No one is at L-1.

Can you get off that horse for one single moment, son??

[mail-mi]

So mailmi, in a world where LaLight's lynch isn't happening (this world), what other lynches would you want?

To be more specific, I think this is my preferred lunch order:

(LaLight)
MiX
Raptor

EFHW/jimmmm

[ashersky]

So deadline is tomorrow morning my time.  I will do my best to pop in for my duties.

Or you could do something now?

No one is at L-1.

Can you get off that horse for one single moment, son??

I was.  No one joined me on my preferred lynch.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

MailMi and Mix are both L-4

Ash, Glooble, Cayvie, Jim, EFHW, And Scola, I believe that you guys should probably start consolidating votes now.

[EFHW]

vote: MiX. I can't tell the difference between this mail-mi and typical mail-mi. I would be good with a Jimmmmm lynch, too.

[MiX]

Vote: mail-mi I guess.

I'll be around for deadline.

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy friends...

Ermmmmagahd....I just attended an hour long virtual workshop attended by too many people to learn about Google Meetings. I am so, so close to stabbing my eyes out.

I'm glad to see Jimmmmm and Raptor coming around! I haven't made up mind about Jimmmm, but I don't see myself moving my vote there in the next few hours. 

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: mail-mi

I like my new wagonmates more than my old wagonmates.

Yeah? Which old wagonmates were unsavory? Which new ones do you dig?

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote count 1.Didds

Mail-Mi (6): LaLight, e!, ADK, Lekkit, shraeye, MiX
MiX (5): faust, RaptorSlayer, WCD, Mail-mi, EFHW
Ashersky (1): scolapasta
Jimmm (1): Cayvie
LaLight (1):  Glooble


Not Voting (2): Jimmm, ashersky

Takes 9 to lynch, deadline is at 9:15PM FT, so 8 and halfish hours from now

[cayvie]

MailMi and Mix are both L-4

Ash, Glooble, Cayvie, Jim, EFHW, And Scola, I believe that you guys should probably start consolidating votes now.

sounds like an invitation to me!

vote: raptor

for srs im getting such bad vibes off this guy; he lurks his way thru the majority of day 1 and then comes around at the end to try to take a leadership role in the lynch.

[cayvie]

i'll be around. i'll hop to mail-mi if necessary (still don't wanna lynch MiX)

[Glooble]

I'm down for that.

vote: raptor

I probably choose mail-mi between MiX and mail-mi, but I need to reread MiX. But if we can make raptor happen that's my preference.

[scolapasta]

I should be around for some part of tonight. Leaning to Mix over Mail-mi (between those two).

[2.71828.....]

Vote: raptor

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, I can dig it, and I'll be around later, too

vote: Raptor

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote count 1.2Didds

Mail-Mi (5): LaLight, ADK, Lekkit, shraeye, MiX
MiX (4): faust, RaptorSlayer, Mail-mi, EFHW
Raptor (4): Cayvie, Glooble, e, WCD
Ashersky (1): scolapasta


Not Voting (2): Jimmm, ashersky

[scolapasta]

vote: MiX (for now)

I'll have to reevaluate my thoughts on Raptor.

[MiX]

I prefer a Raptor lynch over mail-mi.

Vote: Raptor

[mail-mi]

Cool, I'm in.

vote: Raptor

[faust]

The Raptor wagon has scum written all over it.

[mail-mi]

At this point, I'm happy to do Raptor or MiX. I'm still not sold on Jimmmmm.

[2.71828.....]

The Raptor wagon has scum written all over it.

3....2....oh, there it is.

Why are you voting MiX again? I say the MiX wagon has scum written all over it

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.9:


RaptorSlayer (6): Cayvie, Glooble, E!, WCD, MiX, Mail-Mi (L-3)
Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, RaptorSlayer, EFHW, scolapasta

Not Voting (1): Jimmm, Ashersky


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is TODAY, in just over 6 hours!!!

[mail-mi]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

[EFHW]

MailMi and Mix are both L-4

Ash, Glooble, Cayvie, Jim, EFHW, And Scola, I believe that you guys should probably start consolidating votes now.

sounds like an invitation to me!

vote: raptor

for srs im getting such bad vibes off this guy; he lurks his way thru the majority of day 1 and then comes around at the end to try to take a leadership role in the lynch.

Good point, I didn't think of that. It is pretty odd.

vote: raptor

[LaLight]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

this

I don't like this raptor wagon right now

[mail-mi]

MailMi and Mix are both L-4

Ash, Glooble, Cayvie, Jim, EFHW, And Scola, I believe that you guys should probably start consolidating votes now.

sounds like an invitation to me!

vote: raptor

for srs im getting such bad vibes off this guy; he lurks his way thru the majority of day 1 and then comes around at the end to try to take a leadership role in the lynch.

Good point, I didn't think of that. It is pretty odd.

vote: raptor

and that's from 0 to L-2 within one page. this just doesn't happen with scum wagons.

vote: MiX.

[EFHW]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

You were the latest vote when you posted this. You said "I'm in," showing you felt part of the quick run up process, and now you question your read? Sounds panicky.

Count me in for a mail-mi lynch as well.

This might be a very productive Day 1 after all.

[mail-mi]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

You were the latest vote when you posted this. You said "I'm in," showing you felt part of the quick run up process, and now you question your read? Sounds panicky.

Count me in for a mail-mi lynch as well.

This might be a very productive Day 1 after all.

I didn't pay attention to how quickly the wagon had formed. I saw people joining, I jumped on without thinking much about it, then realized just how many people had joined.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, I am good going back to

Vote: mail-mi

Raptor wagon was fun

[2.71828.....]

Mail-mi or raptor.

I will lynch either. 

[EFHW]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

You were the latest vote when you posted this. You said "I'm in," showing you felt part of the quick run up process, and now you question your read? Sounds panicky.

Count me in for a mail-mi lynch as well.

This might be a very productive Day 1 after all.

I didn't pay attention to how quickly the wagon had formed. I saw people joining, I jumped on without thinking much about it, then realized just how many people had joined.

Really? This close to deadline? I am skeptical.

[EFHW]

All three main wagons are at 5 votes.

[MiX]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

Why did you vote? Now go back and see why people voted. Is it that strange?

I...still prefer Raptor. This is mail-mi looking scummy because it's mail-mi. I've yet to see scummy because he's scum.

[mail-mi]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

You were the latest vote when you posted this. You said "I'm in," showing you felt part of the quick run up process, and now you question your read? Sounds panicky.

Count me in for a mail-mi lynch as well.

This might be a very productive Day 1 after all.

I didn't pay attention to how quickly the wagon had formed. I saw people joining, I jumped on without thinking much about it, then realized just how many people had joined.

Really? This close to deadline? I am skeptical.

if you were to read any game I've ever played in ever (town or scum) you will see that I post in a very stream-of-consciousness way. I don't want my posts to sound doctored so I go with what I'm feeling at the time. I saw a Raptor wagon start to form, I joined in because he is one of my scumreads, then I realized with the vote count that there were 6 votes on him. When was the last time a scum wagon formed that quickly, and near to end of D1?

[EFHW]

Posted without counting my own vote! raptor has 6.

[mail-mi]

wait, that jumped from 0 to 6 in one page?

does that ever happen to a scum wagon?

I'm starting to doubt my read.

Why did you vote? Now go back and see why people voted. Is it that strange?

I...still prefer Raptor. This is mail-mi looking scummy because it's mail-mi. I've yet to see scummy because he's scum.

I explained why I voted in my response to EFHW. I'll ask again: when has a D1 scum wagon formed this quickly? I mean there's always a first time, and I still don't think Raptor is towny by any means, but still.

I'm gonna take a step back and reread raptor and those who are voting for him.

[mail-mi]

hold on.

MiX has to be scum.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: raptor

[2.71828.....]

hold on.

MiX has to be scum.

Oh really?

[MiX]

hold on.

MiX has to be scum.

No. Also, ??????

[mail-mi]

Here's why I think MiX has to be scum.

Here's the vote count from before the Raptor wagon formed:

Vote Count 1.9:


Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, E!, ADK, Lekkit
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, RaptorSlayer, WCD
Ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Jimmm (2): Cayvie, MiX
LaLight (2):  Glooble, MailMi
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1): Jimmm


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is roughly 20 hours from now!

Here's the vote count after:

Vote Count 1.9:


RaptorSlayer (6): Cayvie, Glooble, E!, WCD, MiX, Mail-Mi (L-3)
Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, RaptorSlayer, EFHW, scolapasta

Not Voting (1): Jimmm, Ashersky


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is TODAY, in just over 6 hours!!!

The Raptor wagon formed out of everyone who was either on me or someone else (Excepting WCD and myself). I'm thinking this is MiX's scum partners trying to redirecting a lynch away from him.

[mail-mi]

wait, no, it's not quite that cut and dry. Only cayvie and glooble weren't on me or MiX prior to the Raptor wagon.

well, if MiX flips scum, I'm gonna take a closer look at both of them.

[mail-mi]

hold on.

MiX has to be scum.

Oh really?

I take it back, my idea wasn't as solid as I thought it was going to be. but I think it's most likely him out of MiX/Raptor.

[MiX]

Here's why I think MiX has to be scum.

Here's the vote count from before the Raptor wagon formed:

Vote Count 1.9:


Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, E!, ADK, Lekkit
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, RaptorSlayer, WCD
Ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Jimmm (2): Cayvie, MiX
LaLight (2):  Glooble, MailMi
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1): Jimmm


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is roughly 20 hours from now!

Here's the vote count after:

Vote Count 1.9:


RaptorSlayer (6): Cayvie, Glooble, E!, WCD, MiX, Mail-Mi (L-3)
Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, RaptorSlayer, EFHW, scolapasta

Not Voting (1): Jimmm, Ashersky


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is TODAY, in just over 6 hours!!!

The Raptor wagon formed out of everyone who was either on me or someone else (Excepting WCD and myself). I'm thinking this is MiX's scum partners trying to redirecting a lynch away from him.

The raptor wagon formed as a third option, out of some people not wanting to lynch either of us. Unless you're using this as proof you're scum as well? If so, uh, we should've talked about this in the scum QT...

[mail-mi]

The raptor wagon formed as a third option, out of some people not wanting to lynch either of us. Unless you're using this as proof you're scum as well? If so, uh, we should've talked about this in the scum QT...

yeah, like I said, not quite as cut and dry as I thought it was going to be.

[MiX]

wait, no, it's not quite that cut and dry. Only cayvie and glooble weren't on me or MiX prior to the Raptor wagon.

well, if MiX flips scum, I'm gonna take a closer look at both of them.

Well, if mail-mi flips scum, I'm gonna take a closer look at cayvie and glooble as well, but I still think raptor's the lynch here. If they flip town we can always go back to us two. And again, this is as incriminating to you as it is to me, and you're town. Unless you're saying scum HAS to be in a top wagon for that to happen?

[MiX]

The raptor wagon formed as a third option, out of some people not wanting to lynch either of us. Unless you're using this as proof you're scum as well? If so, uh, we should've talked about this in the scum QT...

yeah, like I said, not quite as cut and dry as I thought it was going to be.

My problem here is that, you being in the same position, know that this can happen if you're town, so your argument is moot, regardless of how strong it is.

Can we just...lynch raptor, seriously, if you don't want Jimmmmm raptor's good. Oh and faust, I saw him create my wagon, but who lynches faust anyway?

[mail-mi]

wait, no, it's not quite that cut and dry. Only cayvie and glooble weren't on me or MiX prior to the Raptor wagon.

well, if MiX flips scum, I'm gonna take a closer look at both of them.

Well, if mail-mi flips scum, I'm gonna take a closer look at cayvie and glooble as well, but I still think raptor's the lynch here. If they flip town we can always go back to us two. And again, this is as incriminating to you as it is to me, and you're town. Unless you're saying scum HAS to be in a top wagon for that to happen?

No, I'm not saying that. I'll have to take another look at Raptor and see if he's still scummy like I thought. I still don't like the quick-forming wagon though.

[2.71828.....]

I think mail-mi's little flapping back and forth is more town than scum here.

Let's Lynch raptor now

[LaLight]

vote: raptor

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Wow all of that escalated quickly. What am I at vote count wise? Just don’t hammer yet I guess? I guess that’s what I get for trying to be more involved? Lol

[2.71828.....]

Wow all of that escalated quickly. What am I at vote count wise? Just don’t hammer yet I guess? I guess that’s what I get for trying to be more involved? Lol

I am eagerly anticipating a follow-on post

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.10:

RaptorSlayer (7): Cayvie, Glooble, WCD, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight (L-2)
MiX (4): faust, RaptorSlayer, scolapasta, MailMi
Mail-Mi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye

Not Voting (2): Jimmm, Ashersky

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is TODAY, in roughly 6 hours!!!

[Lekkit]

The raptor wagon formed as a third option, out of some people not wanting to lynch either of us. Unless you're using this as proof you're scum as well? If so, uh, we should've talked about this in the scum QT...

Is this actually a scumslip?

[MiX]

The raptor wagon formed as a third option, out of some people not wanting to lynch either of us. Unless you're using this as proof you're scum as well? If so, uh, we should've talked about this in the scum QT...

Is this actually a scumslip?

No?

[Lekkit]

So you assume scum has daychat?

[MiX]

So you assume scum has daychat?

Do I need to explain my joke in detail here?

If me and mail-mi were scum, we should've said as much in the QT, because I didn't know that. You can also view it as, we should've discussed who busses who, or something else completely different depending on your mood.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Wow all of that escalated quickly. What am I at vote count wise? Just don’t hammer yet I guess? I guess that’s what I get for trying to be more involved? Lol

I am eagerly anticipating a follow-on post

I will claim when I get L-1 I rather not if not necessary

[MiX]

So you assume scum has daychat?

If we had daychat, I would've said this in the daychat, right? Is this a scumslip?

[2.71828.....]

Wow all of that escalated quickly. What am I at vote count wise? Just don’t hammer yet I guess? I guess that’s what I get for trying to be more involved? Lol

I am eagerly anticipating a follow-on post

I will claim when I get L-1 I rather not if not necessary

This is all we get?

"Just don't hammer me"

[2.71828.....]

Do you have any comments prior to getting to L-1 that might dissuade people from voting you?

[2.71828.....]

I feel like raptors response to the wagon has not been townie

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Do you have any comments prior to getting to L-1 that might dissuade people from voting you?

There must be scum on my wagon to pick up so quickly. Also I don’t know how the wagon started, because I was conscious of the deadline?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Do we know how many scum there are?

I still much rather Mix at this point ofc but willing to settle for MailMi

[faust]

Do we know how many scum there are?

No, why do you want to know?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Do we know how many scum there are?

No, why do you want to know?

Some sort of odds on how many scum would be on my wagon

[cayvie]

Wow all of that escalated quickly. What am I at vote count wise? Just don’t hammer yet I guess? I guess that’s what I get for trying to be more involved? Lol

I am eagerly anticipating a follow-on post

I will claim when I get L-1 I rather not if not necessary

Yeahhhh might wanna claim now or declare you won't claim. You're at L-2 with ashersky calling hammer.

[shraeye]

Here's why I think MiX has to be scum.

Here's the vote count from before the Raptor wagon formed:

Vote Count 1.9:


Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, E!, ADK, Lekkit
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, RaptorSlayer, WCD
Ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Jimmm (2): Cayvie, MiX
LaLight (2):  Glooble, MailMi
faust (1): Ashersky

Not Voting (1): Jimmm


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is roughly 20 hours from now!

Here's the vote count after:

Vote Count 1.9:


RaptorSlayer (6): Cayvie, Glooble, E!, WCD, MiX, Mail-Mi (L-3)
Mail-Mi (4): LaLight, ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, RaptorSlayer, EFHW, scolapasta

Not Voting (1): Jimmm, Ashersky


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is TODAY, in just over 6 hours!!!

The Raptor wagon formed out of everyone who was either on me or someone else (Excepting WCD and myself). I'm thinking this is MiX's scum partners trying to redirecting a lynch away from him.

Why wouldn't they just vote for you?  That's makes no sense to me

[shraeye]

I feel like raptors response to the wagon has not been townie

And what would town do?  I feel like this is such an empty argument.

[faust]

Wow all of that escalated quickly. What am I at vote count wise? Just don’t hammer yet I guess? I guess that’s what I get for trying to be more involved? Lol

I am eagerly anticipating a follow-on post

I will claim when I get L-1 I rather not if not necessary

Yeahhhh might wanna claim now or declare you won't claim. You're at L-2 with ashersky calling hammer.

I can make that easier.

Vote: Raptor

[mail-mi]

OK I just reread raptor. I'm remembering why I found him scummy in the first place. I'm still not sure how I feel about his wagon forming, but I'd like a claim from him. Intent to hammer.

[faust]

You got 30 minutes man, then I have to go and won't be back before deadline.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I got flask, it is a healing Role. I can heal those who have been poisoned. I’ll probably be the NK anyways now lol
 

[Xxraptorslayer96]

GG everyone, check my wagon For scum. Do me a favor and lynch Mix or MailMi tomorrow ty

[mail-mi]

I got flask, it is a healing Role. I can heal those who have been poisoned. I’ll probably be the NK anyways now lol

I don't think this is a lie, it seems too specific.

However, I'm not sure if this makes him town. Any person could go after a flask.

still have intent to hammer unless someone else objects.

[WestCoastDidds]

Flask as a healing role jibes with the flavor

[faust]

still have intent to hammer unless someone else objects.

Chicken.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

I got flask, it is a healing Role. I can heal those who have been poisoned. I’ll probably be the NK anyways now lol

I don't think this is a lie, it seems too specific.

However, I'm not sure if this makes him town. Any person could go after a flask.

still have intent to hammer unless someone else objects.

Anyone can have that item, regardless of alignment. The push to make Raptor claim seems useless and whoever's doing it gets scumpoints.

Seriously, why are we assuming items change based on alignment? How would that make sense flavorwise anyway?

PPE 2

[mail-mi]

Vote: MiX

why does having a flask make raptor town?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum? 

[mail-mi]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

[faust]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

Why aren't you voting already?

[MiX]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

Why aren't you voting already?

Lol faust's scum. Let's do this tomorrow.

[mail-mi]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

Why aren't you voting already?

because I wanted to get others opinions on the claim and everything else before ending the day.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

Seems like a lost hope, I think Everyone town read Cayvie this entire time, and so did I honestly until the case on me came out of thin air.  Glooble has been laying low on the radar this entire time.  D1 normally gets wasted for on a town kill anyways. It seems like the case everyone has on me is that I started playing more active in comparison to the first half of the day, which I did. I was trying to be helpful and ask questions.

[faust]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

Why aren't you voting already?

because I wanted to get others opinions on the claim and everything else before ending the day.

But now Raptor isn't at L-1 anymore since Didds moved.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Vote: Faust

[faust]

Lol faust's scum. Let's do this tomorrow.

Don't make me regret my choices here...

[faust]

Anyways I'm out, will be staying on Raptor. The clumsy attempt at fabricating a townslip sealed it for me. See you on the other side.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Anyways I'm out, will be staying on Raptor. The clumsy attempt at fabricating a townslip sealed it for me. See you on the other side.

Fabricate a town slip? Are you confusing me with someone else?

[mail-mi]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

Why aren't you voting already?

because I wanted to get others opinions on the claim and everything else before ending the day.

But now Raptor isn't at L-1 anymore since Didds moved.

and I don't think I've ever gotten a hammer on this site, I want a hammer.

[Galzria]

Vote Count 1.11:

RaptorSlayer (7): Cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, faust (L-2)
MiX (3): scolapasta, MailMi, WCD
Mail-Mi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
faust (1): RaptorSlayer

Not Voting (2): Jimmm, Ashersky

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is 9:15pm Forum Time on March 24th. That is TODAY, in roughly 6 hours!!!

[mail-mi]

I think at this point I'm willing to go either MiX or Raptor. both seem scummy to me, Raptor slightly moreso.

[Galzria]

Correction to time to deadline: It is in about 3 hours, 15 minutes.

[shraeye]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

why did you give a GG post then?

why not form a case on someone who drove your wagon? (like cayvie or glooble)

Seems like a lost hope, I think Everyone town read Cayvie this entire time, and so did I honestly until the case on me came out of thin air.  Glooble has been laying low on the radar this entire time.  D1 normally gets wasted for on a town kill anyways. It seems like the case everyone has on me is that I started playing more active in comparison to the first half of the day, which I did. I was trying to be helpful and ask questions.

You really think cayviebis scum?

[shraeye]

I think at this point I'm willing to go either MiX or Raptor. both seem scummy to me, Raptor slightly moreso.

What specifically is scummy about raptor?

[2.71828.....]

Do you guys really think a full wagon gets tossed on me in the last 12 hours and it’s not driven by scum?

Yes.

[2.71828.....]

Scum don't need to lynch here. They are happy with a no lynch.

Feigned desire to get a lunch done, lackadaisical responded to their wagon, raptor is scum

[2.71828.....]

Scum don't just all pile on at the end. Maybe one will. Or two depending on how many scum we have.

But scum also like to sit back comfortably in their reads so they can appear consistent and not wibbly wobbly

[mail-mi]

I think at this point I'm willing to go either MiX or Raptor. both seem scummy to me, Raptor slightly moreso.

What specifically is scummy about raptor?

- lurking
- posting that he's "trying not to appear scummy"
- appearing to ask why people think he's scummy, then disappearing again.

those are my reasons. He still isn't talking much in the district QT either so I've got nothing to go on there.

[2.71828.....]

I think at this point I'm willing to go either MiX or Raptor. both seem scummy to me, Raptor slightly moreso.

What specifically is scummy about raptor?

- lurking
- posting that he's "trying not to appear scummy"
- appearing to ask why people think he's scummy, then disappearing again.

those are my reasons. He still isn't talking much in the district QT either so I've got nothing to go on there.

You should go back to raptor. I don't think the votes are there for MiX even if I wanted to lynch him.

Which I don't

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I think at this point I'm willing to go either MiX or Raptor. both seem scummy to me, Raptor slightly moreso.

What specifically is scummy about raptor?

- lurking
- posting that he's "trying not to appear scummy"
- appearing to ask why people think he's scummy, then disappearing again.

those are my reasons. He still isn't talking much in the district QT either so I've got nothing to go on there.

Why would I say something in our qt when I could just say it on her. I can’t even share any opinions on you because you don’t trust me lol

[WestCoastDidds]

Alright, alright...

Vote: raptor

But faust is looking pretty scummy in the last hour

I think that is L-1

[2.71828.....]

I am out as well, maybe I will be up in a few hours with the baby, but I doubt my vote is changing

[mail-mi]

Alright, alright...

Vote: raptor

But faust is looking pretty scummy in the last hour

I think that is L-1

sweet vote: raptor

[Xxraptorslayer96]

You really think cayviebis scum?

I think that there is fairly high odds on it. They came off as townie in the beginning and then have just kinda been coasting since that. I feel like a lot of people have. The game slowed way down. Scum probably got placed high on the town lists so have just slowed down and coasted.

I sound like a conspiracy theorist now..

[WestCoastDidds]

Fingers crossed on the baby sleeping all the way through till tomorrow!

[Xxraptorslayer96]

GG.

- Note to self, play D1 more passive next time.

[MiX]

Well there's that. Let's hope he was scum.

[scolapasta]

Newbie question #547: So now that a 9th vote has been placed, it's done? Raptor is lynched? And can still post until it's confirmed by the mods?

[Galzria]

Twilight has begun. Find shelter, and stay safe, Tributes. May the odds be ever in your favor.

[mail-mi]

Twilight has begun. Find shelter, and stay safe, Tributes. May the odds be ever in your favor.

Interesting that there is a twilight phase.

[mail-mi]

Newbie question #547: So now that a 9th vote has been placed, it's done? Raptor is lynched? And can still post until it's confirmed by the mods?

yep.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Newbie question #547: So now that a 9th vote has been placed, it's done? Raptor is lynched? And can still post until it's confirmed by the mods?

We can talk till thread is locked but I am set to be killed

[mail-mi]

Newbie question #547: So now that a 9th vote has been placed, it's done? Raptor is lynched? And can still post until it's confirmed by the mods?

We can talk till thread is locked but I am set to be killed

any final words? if you're town i'd like your reads at least.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

[scolapasta]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

This answers my next question, I think. Which was going to be is there anything that could happen to reverse it.

[Jimmmmm]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

Huh. Well that's a pleasant surprise to wake up to.

[mail-mi]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

This answers my next question, I think. Which was going to be is there anything that could happen to reverse it.

well, there are governors that can prevent lynches, but I don't think anyone is going to prevent this lynch now.

[mail-mi]

also pretty happy my first hammer on this site (I think) is on scum.

100% record, I'll just stop now.

[scolapasta]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

SO, either Raptor is lying here about only have one mate or there are multiple mafia factions*? Is that the correct way to interpret this?

* Because 2 Mafia in a 16 player game seems way too low

[mail-mi]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

SO, either Raptor is lying here about only have one mate or there are multiple mafia factions*? Is that the correct way to interpret this?

* Because 2 Mafia in a 16 player game seems way too low

i find it more likely that he's lying, scum do that.

[scolapasta]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

This answers my next question, I think. Which was going to be is there anything that could happen to reverse it.

well, there are governors that can prevent lynches, but I don't think anyone is going to prevent this lynch now.

Right, that's part of why I wondered? i.e if there's any chance of salvation, why confess now? I guess he assumed that it wouldn't happen?

[MiX]

To my scum mate good luck. To everyone else, I don’t know how you did it but you got me lol

Gottem.

Wait, what, he's scum?

[MiX]

No town governor saves raptor here, this is a way of making sure his scum governor doesn't save him and drag themselves down with raptor.

Or a troll. Could be a troll. Would be epic.

[MiX]

He could be telling the truth. For those who know the flavor, what are the chances this is multiball?

[Swowl]

THREAD LOCKED!

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.FINAL:

RaptorSlayer (9): Cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, faust, WCD, Mail-Mi
MiX (1): scolapasta
Mail-Mi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
faust (1): RaptorSlayer

Not Voting (2): Jimmm, Ashersky

With 16 alive, it took 9 players to lynch.


Night 1 starts now, and ends March 26th 7:00pm Forum Time.
Please submit any Night Actions in your QTs within the next 36 hours.

[Swowl]

As the Tributes sit in worry and wait... wondering about the decision they have made... BANG! A crack from a cannon echos through the Arena and the sky lights up... And then a voice comes on the PA System:

"Attention Tributes - Please take a moment to observe The Fallen of Day 1..."



dodecahedron dice


XxRaptorSlayer96 has been lynched. They were Haymitch, the Mafia Aligned 3-Shot Re Loader.

Upon removing the body from the Arena, only one item of value was found on Haymitch... a Flask tucked away in one of his jacket pockets.

[Swowl]

Attention Tributes. There will be a small delay on the start of Day 2. Thank you for your patience.

[Swowl]

As the sun rises on the horizon there is yet another BOOM of a cannon...





Mail-Mi has died at night. They were Thresh, the Mafia Aligned 1-Shot Poisoner.

As their body was being lifted from the Arena, it was noticed that a handful of Nightlock fell from their hand.

[LaLight]

Do we just win now?

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.0:

Not Voting (14): Cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, faust, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, scolapasta, ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye

With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time.

[Swowl]

Do we just win now?

gonna let this one slide

[Swowl]

THREAD UNLOCKED!

[Jimmmmm]

Well... things are going well.

[LaLight]

So did I draw the nightkill? anyone protected me?

[MiX]

I presume someone was protected, and I presume E got the luckiest shot in the world. But let's see how this goes, we should just win now, yes.

Who scumreads Lekkit?

[LaLight]

I don't know if I was the nightkill, but anyway we had an arrangement with ash that I will come clean as soon as the day starts. Also turns out I understood my role wrong, but well

I am a Motion Detector, but I can see who targeted and whom targeted my target. Just a bunch of names, I don't really know whether my target targeted or they were.

I want to wait to claim the results, they are not really very meaningful.

[scolapasta]

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

[LaLight]

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

[LaLight]

I was RIGHT with my reads, did you see that, did you?

[Jimmmmm]

I am a Motion Detector, but I can see who targeted and whom targeted my target. Just a bunch of names, I don't really know whether my target targeted or they were.

What's your item?

My understanding of a Motion Detector is that you just get a binary result. According to the wiki: "The Motion Detector learns if any actions were performed by or on a player, but not what they were, or who else was involved."

Have we seen this role used differently to this before?

[LaLight]

so do we believe raptor had only one partner? although if it is multiball or something there should be more nightkills. UNLESS everyone tried to kill me and i was protected

[LaLight]

I am a Motion Detector, but I can see who targeted and whom targeted my target. Just a bunch of names, I don't really know whether my target targeted or they were.

What's your item?

My understanding of a Motion Detector is that you just get a binary result. According to the wiki: "The Motion Detector learns if any actions were performed by or on a player, but not what they were, or who else was involved."

Have we seen this role used differently to this before?

that's actually what i thought. Then i got the names and i was wtf, i reread and it turned out my role is what i just said.

I am, unsurprisingly, Foxears. With Fox Ears. I actually was sure that we get the names after items so this is a bit confusing

[scolapasta]

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

[MiX]

I don't know if I was the nightkill, but anyway we had an arrangement with ash that I will come clean as soon as the day starts. Also turns out I understood my role wrong, but well

I am a Motion Detector, but I can see who targeted and whom targeted my target. Just a bunch of names, I don't really know whether my target targeted or they were.

I want to wait to claim the results, they are not really very meaningful.

I had a similar arrangement with Lekkit and I will claim to them, this might lead to some public claims, we'll see.

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

They were also one of the districts that scumread each other.

I am a Motion Detector, but I can see who targeted and whom targeted my target. Just a bunch of names, I don't really know whether my target targeted or they were.

What's your item?

My understanding of a Motion Detector is that you just get a binary result. According to the wiki: "The Motion Detector learns if any actions were performed by or on a player, but not what they were, or who else was involved."

Have we seen this role used differently to this before?

We could have different versions of Motion Detector, although I believe a tracker/watcher is very powerful if they get to know who's doing what. Buuuut maybe not, hmm.

so do we believe raptor had only one partner? although if it is multiball or something there should be more nightkills. UNLESS everyone tried to kill me and i was protected

Raptor lied, and it's not multiball, or raptor lied and it is multiball, or raptor told the truth and it's multiball. My guess is he lied, there's no way he wouldn't take the neighbor opportunity to townread the crap out of his only partner.

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

They were in the same neighbor. And yes partners would do that for towncred and/or pressure from faust to hammer.

[LaLight]

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

they were in the same district. Me and ash had daychat, so i assume everyone has?

[LaLight]

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

They are not different factions, the color of their flip is the same. Unless something

[MiX]

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

they were in the same district. Me and ash had daychat, so i assume everyone has?

Yeah, it's part of the setup. What isn't part of the setup, from what I could tell, is that neighborhoods close at night, I didn't know that beforehand. Was it there?

PPE: It would be pretty bastard for mafia flips to be of different factions. Literally because I've played in a bastard that had that.

[LaLight]

Interestingly (?), both dead Mafia were in the same district (7).

7 is an unlucky number, we all knew that

what IS interesting is that they had daychat apparently

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

they were in the same district. Me and ash had daychat, so i assume everyone has?

Yeah, it's part of the setup. What isn't part of the setup, from what I could tell, is that neighborhoods close at night, I didn't know that beforehand. Was it there?

PPE: It would be pretty bastard for mafia flips to be of different factions. Literally because I've played in a bastard that had that.

I was surprised it was closed as well

[scolapasta]

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

They were in the same neighbor. And yes partners would do that for towncred and/or pressure from faust to hammer.

Oh, right, duh.

I'll have to go back and look but didn't the pressure from faust come *after* Mail-mi said he was going to hammer?

[Jimmmmm]

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

They're both Mafia-Aligned. If they were different factions probably one would be Werewolf-Aligned or something.

If it was (Town) e that killed mail-mi, then I'd say it's most likely that there are exactly 2 more Mafia members (out of a 4-person team). If it wasn't e (or he's not Town), then we probably have a second scum team or a Serial Killer.

[MiX]

How do we know they had daychat?

Also, and people already probably noticed that Mail-mi is the one who "hammered" Raptor. Would partners do that on D1? (i.e. does this mean they were different factions?)

They were in the same neighbor. And yes partners would do that for towncred and/or pressure from faust to hammer.

Oh, right, duh.

I'll have to go back and look but didn't the pressure from faust come *after* Mail-mi said he was going to hammer?

Yeah, it was probably a mistake to go after raptor and not me. Definitely backfired, so in hindsight of course it was, but there's not much you can do as mail-mi there, either push me or bus, and if I flip town both of them look bad.

[cayvie]

I am a Motion Detector, but I can see who targeted and whom targeted my target. Just a bunch of names, I don't really know whether my target targeted or they were.

What's your item?

My understanding of a Motion Detector is that you just get a binary result. According to the wiki: "The Motion Detector learns if any actions were performed by or on a player, but not what they were, or who else was involved."

Have we seen this role used differently to this before?

that's actually what i thought. Then i got the names and i was wtf, i reread and it turned out my role is what i just said.

I am, unsurprisingly, Foxears. With Fox Ears. I actually was sure that we get the names after items so this is a bit confusing

your name is Foxears? that's odd. there's a character, nicknamed Foxface, who wears her hair in 2 braids that are described as "fox ears" so i assumed that was her.

[LaLight]

I am a Motion Detector, but I can see who targeted and whom targeted my target. Just a bunch of names, I don't really know whether my target targeted or they were.

What's your item?

My understanding of a Motion Detector is that you just get a binary result. According to the wiki: "The Motion Detector learns if any actions were performed by or on a player, but not what they were, or who else was involved."

Have we seen this role used differently to this before?

that's actually what i thought. Then i got the names and i was wtf, i reread and it turned out my role is what i just said.

I am, unsurprisingly, Foxears. With Fox Ears. I actually was sure that we get the names after items so this is a bit confusing

your name is Foxears? that's odd. there's a character, nicknamed Foxface, who wears her hair in 2 braids that are described as "fox ears" so i assumed that was her.

I don't know the flavor

my name if Foxears, yeah

[cayvie]

Revised Intra-district reads summary

District 1
shraeye thinks scola is scummy
scola thinks shraeye is scummy

District 2
faust's thoughts are his own
glooble thinks faust is towny

District 3
jimmmmm thinks e is towny
e thinks jimmmmm is towny

District 4
LaLight thinks Ash is towny
Ash thinks LaLight is towny

District 5
WCD thinks ADK is towny
ADK thinks WCD is towny

District 6
Lekkit thinks MiX is towny
MiX thinks Lekkit is towny

District 7
raptor has not expressed an opinion on mail-mi
mail-mi thinks raptor is scummy

District 8
cayvie thinks EFHW is towny
EFHW thinks cayvie is towny

premise A: on average, a townperson's view on their neighbor is more informed and therefore more accurate than their view on another player.
premise B1: a scumster is more likely to express mistrust of their neighbor if they think their neighbor suspects them
premise B2: a scumster is more likely to express mistrust of their neighbor if they think their neighbor will be an easy lynch

with these premises in mind, i'd like to lynch someone in one of the neighborhoods where there's some friction. (also i got a pretty hard townread on MiX when he and I appeared to come to the same conclusion about draft order claiming at the same time. that felt genuine, even if i'm no longer so sure massclaiming draft order is necessary at this time.)

vote: mail-mi

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

[Jimmmmm]

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

To be clear, are you voting for shraeye because there was friction in his district and another district with friction had scum? Or because he's made unexplained statements?

[MiX]

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

I don't get it. You think scum's all doing the same thing?

PPE: Yeah that question's great.

[LaLight]

I presume someone was protected, and I presume E got the luckiest shot in the world. But let's see how this goes, we should just win now, yes.

Who scumreads Lekkit?

Do you?

[MiX]

I presume someone was protected, and I presume E got the luckiest shot in the world. But let's see how this goes, we should just win now, yes.

Who scumreads Lekkit?

Do you?

Slightly, although their claim is towny.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Revised Intra-district reads summary

District 1
shraeye thinks scola is scummy
scola thinks shraeye is scummy

District 2
faust's thoughts are his own
glooble thinks faust is towny

District 3
jimmmmm thinks e is towny
e thinks jimmmmm is towny

District 4
LaLight thinks Ash is towny
Ash thinks LaLight is towny

District 5
WCD thinks ADK is towny
ADK thinks WCD is towny

District 6
Lekkit thinks MiX is towny
MiX thinks Lekkit is towny

District 7
raptor has not expressed an opinion on mail-mi
mail-mi thinks raptor is scummy

District 8
cayvie thinks EFHW is towny
EFHW thinks cayvie is towny

premise A: on average, a townperson's view on their neighbor is more informed and therefore more accurate than their view on another player.
premise B1: a scumster is more likely to express mistrust of their neighbor if they think their neighbor suspects them
premise B2: a scumster is more likely to express mistrust of their neighbor if they think their neighbor will be an easy lynch

with these premises in mind, i'd like to lynch someone in one of the neighborhoods where there's some friction. (also i got a pretty hard townread on MiX when he and I appeared to come to the same conclusion about draft order claiming at the same time. that felt genuine, even if i'm no longer so sure massclaiming draft order is necessary at this time.)

vote: mail-mi

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

I feel this.

vote: shraeye

I wasn't around much at the end of D1 due to RL busyness but I will try to do some catch up in the coming days. But I'm feeling good about where things stand right now

[cayvie]

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

To be clear, are you voting for shraeye because there was friction in his district and another district with friction had scum? Or because he's made unexplained statements?

both reasons!

[cayvie]

oh, also, flavor-wise, Thresh is an odd character to have the Nightlock and be a Poisoner; he's a big strong dude who just beats people to death with rocks and such. I don't recall him having anything to do with nightlock berries in the books? (peeta, katniss, rue, foxface, snow, seneca, even cato probably had more to do with nightlock)

so this is an indication to me that I should take any flavor deductions i've made with a grain of salt.

[cayvie]

also holy crap, we could have been so screwed if we hadn't lynched right and gotten that nightkill right.

mafia with a 1-shot poisoner and a 3-shot reloader? brutal. (assuming they could use the poison kills in addition to the regular mafia nightkill)

actually, if they couldn't use both kills, that could explain why there's not a townie dead tonight; someone might be poisoned.

[scolapasta]

Can a poisoner succeed if killed at night? (let me know when questions get annoying. I can always look up online, but sometimes it's more fun to ask on here / might help get a read depending on how it's answered)

[cayvie]

Can a poisoner succeed if killed at night? (let me know when questions get annoying. I can always look up online, but sometimes it's more fun to ask on here / might help get a read depending on how it's answered)

almost certainly, yes. nightkills almost always resolve after other roles.

[WestCoastDidds]

Wow! Wow! Wow!

How exciting! Good work, team.

And yeah, my question for Shraeye for yesterday is even more present.....why was he convinced #1 wouldn’t be killed??

[EFHW]

Hi, checking in. Will try to type in votes for play by play tomorrow. I'm making masks in my free time.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Can a poisoner succeed if killed at night? (let me know when questions get annoying. I can always look up online, but sometimes it's more fun to ask on here / might help get a read depending on how it's answered)

almost certainly, yes. nightkills almost always resolve after other roles.

More specifically, a player dying generally doesn't stop their action from taking effect

[WestCoastDidds]

Cayvie, what does being poisoned mean? Delayed dying?

EFHW, that’s awesome. (You know, awesome because it’s helpful, but actually awful that we need to make masks). I have never before wanted or needed a sewing machine, but I sure wish I had one now.

[cayvie]

Cayvie, what does being poisoned mean? Delayed dying?

EFHW, that’s awesome. (You know, awesome because it’s helpful, but actually awful that we need to make masks). I have never before wanted or needed a sewing machine, but I sure wish I had one now.

yeah, that's usually what poisoners do. in my experience sometimes the victim knows they've been poisoned and sometimes they don't.

[scolapasta]

Cayvie, what does being poisoned mean? Delayed dying?

EFHW, that’s awesome. (You know, awesome because it’s helpful, but actually awful that we need to make masks). I have never before wanted or needed a sewing machine, but I sure wish I had one now.

yeah, that's usually what poisoners do. in my experience sometimes the victim knows they've been poisoned and sometimes they don't.

So one of is is likely poisoned, may or may not know it, and will die in the night?

[cayvie]

Cayvie, what does being poisoned mean? Delayed dying?

EFHW, that’s awesome. (You know, awesome because it’s helpful, but actually awful that we need to make masks). I have never before wanted or needed a sewing machine, but I sure wish I had one now.

yeah, that's usually what poisoners do. in my experience sometimes the victim knows they've been poisoned and sometimes they don't.

So one of is is likely poisoned, may or may not know it, and will die in the night?

those are my conclusions.

[2.71828.....]

Oh wow, that was an extremely successful D1/N1.

I agree with cayvie that a townie is likely poisoned.

anyway, I was just up for a bit with the baby, headed back to sleep, more when I officially wake up

[2.71828.....]

There is so much to look at with two scum flips where both were primary D1 wagons

- I think MiX is town as the third serious D1 wagon.
- I think faust is town the way he landed on his vote. I almost responded to MiX's reply #1054 calling faust scum with a "let's wait and see the flip"

Those are the two things that immediately popped in my mind after both flips.

Kind of want to iso every player's D1 and just see the mail-mi/raptor interactions. Maybe I will. I mean, what else to do in quarantine

[faust]

actually, if they couldn't use both kills, that could explain why there's not a townie dead tonight; someone might be poisoned.

I'd strongly doubt that they would use it instead of their NK, that would be more of a debuff rather than a power role.

[faust]

Oh wow, that was an extremely successful D1/N1.

Do you want to confirm or deny that the mail-mi kill was your doing?

[2.71828.....]

So did I draw the nightkill? anyone protected me?

I don't think anyone should claim any more at this point.

[2.71828.....]

Oh wow, that was an extremely successful D1/N1.

Do you want to confirm or deny that the mail-mi kill was your doing?

I did not kill mail-mi

[2.71828.....]

So very likely SK or other third party exists

[2.71828.....]

Or just your regular old multi-ball

[faust]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

[cayvie]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

i wonder. i saw 3 nightkill items in the list; we know where the nightlock ended up and the bow's been claimed, but the trident is still out there somewhere, potentially.

[2.71828.....]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

I mean, mail-mi had me fooled after the hammer. Looking at it I can see how he probably hoped raptor would never make it to L-1, but once he did hammer was inevitable so take it for town cred.

[Glooble]

I could actually see the trident being a protective item- 1-shot bp maybe? Doesn’t Finnick use it to like pull away other people’s weapons?

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

[2.71828.....]

I could actually see the trident being a protective item- 1-shot bp maybe? Doesn’t Finnick use it to like pull away other people’s weapons?

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

So you think LaLight just made it up without doing any research?

I think more likely LaLight is just sharing the role they got

[faust]

So did I draw the nightkill? anyone protected me?

I don't think anyone should claim any more at this point.

What changed? D1 you were all for mass claiming.

[faust]

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

I will say that Swan made a mistake in my role PM that might have gone unnoticed if I hadn't pointed it out.

[Glooble]

I could actually see the trident being a protective item- 1-shot bp maybe? Doesn’t Finnick use it to like pull away other people’s weapons?

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

So you think LaLight just made it up without doing any research?

I think more likely LaLight is just sharing the role they got

Just seems more likely to me that LaLight would look something up on a wiki and get it wrong than get their PM wrong.

Also, not sure Motion Detector actually makes any sense with LaLight’s softclaim in #333. It’s not a terribly powerful role, especially in RMM.

[Lekkit]

Would be really easy to just admit you got the name wrong, especially after being called out on it. I think LaLight is telling the truth about his role. Ash should be able to confirm his claims, right?

[shraeye]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

I'm not entirely convinced this is true.

[shraeye]

I could actually see the trident being a protective item- 1-shot bp maybe? Doesn’t Finnick use it to like pull away other people’s weapons?

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

No vote on LaLight, though....so how suspicious is highly suspicious?

[Glooble]

I could actually see the trident being a protective item- 1-shot bp maybe? Doesn’t Finnick use it to like pull away other people’s weapons?

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

No vote on LaLight, though....so how suspicious is highly suspicious?

Thought about it, but wanted to wait until I had time to read the thread in light of the flips. I’m hoping that will yield an even higher suspicion on someone.

[shraeye]

And yeah, my question for Shraeye for yesterday is even more present.....why was he convinced #1 wouldn’t be killed??

Because based on what I was thinking, #1 would very most likely be mafia.  So A) mafia don't kill themselves and B) we were going to lynch #1.  Hard to be the NK when you're already out.

I was under the impression that mafia knew their teammates before submitting their preference list.  I double-checked the rules during my initial setup thoughts, and came to that conclusion.  Then Galz's answer (here) was just to requote the rules that had initially confused me.

It seems everyone now believes that mafia got the names of their partners AFTER submitting these lists.  I...mostly believe this.  DatSwan kinda cleared things up (here) except still not 100%.  If the question is "when do badguys know who their partner is?", why isn't the clarifying rule/answer "for example, non-town aligned players will not know any of their teammates when ranking".

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, okay...

I was definitely operating under the assumption that scum didn’t know who was on their team until after we ordered.

[faust]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

[Lekkit]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

This can definately go wrong.

[faust]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

This can definately go wrong.

Any better suggestions?

[ashersky]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

[ashersky]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

[ashersky]

LL has been consistent in QT claims on all counts.  He has always claimed there before here, and it has always been the same.

He never mentioned his character name, though.

[Lekkit]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

This can definately go wrong.

Any better suggestions?

Talking things through.

[EFHW]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

You sound like you know there are scum other than mafia.

[faust]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

I doubt that the same power would exist in 2 different items, and I also doubt that one item would just be a stronger version of another. One of these would have to be the case in order for there to be another town vig.

I think a third party would be concerned about power balance, and with the lynch town did definitely have the momentum. Plus it serves a third party to have town going around looking for partners of Raptor, that takes pressure off of them, so they don't want to narrow that pool.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

[faust]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

This can definately go wrong.

Any better suggestions?

Talking things through.

I don't remember when I told everyone to shut up and start voting for scolapasta. I'm prefectly able to talk about things while also voting for someone who I think is scum.

Why do you object to my vote, but not to others that were also placed before things were talked through?

[faust]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

[faust]

Also note that there was a "probably" in my original statement. So, you know, I acknowledge the other options, I just think they're less likely.

[Lekkit]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

This can definately go wrong.

Any better suggestions?

Talking things through.

I don't remember when I told everyone to shut up and start voting for scolapasta. I'm prefectly able to talk about things while also voting for someone who I think is scum.

Why do you object to my vote, but not to others that were also placed before things were talked through?

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

[MiX]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

Given that raptor said "scummate" instead of "scummates", it's at least possible there's no more mafia.

PPE: You think all of scum was on the scum wagons? I'm sure at least one was on me, and that's where we should look. But not just at the final vote count, some before it are better. For example, mail-mi's hammer shouldn't matter at all.

[faust]

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

On what grounds though? I mean obvously "have to lynch" is a pretty strong wording that outright dismisses other options. It's also a wording I never used.

Do you think we are more likely to find scum on the wagon? Who do you think is scum?

[faust]

Given that raptor said "scummate" instead of "scummates", it's at least possible there's no more mafia.

PPE: You think all of scum was on the scum wagons? I'm sure at least one was on me, and that's where we should look. But not just at the final vote count, some before it are better. For example, mail-mi's hammer shouldn't matter at all.

I think we can chalk the "scummate" comment up to the fact that he actually had a single partner to talk to in his district for the duration of D1.

And yes, mail-mi's hammer shouldn't matter in our vote count analysis. Because mail-mi is dead.

[Lekkit]

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

On what grounds though? I mean obvously "have to lynch" is a pretty strong wording that outright dismisses other options. It's also a wording I never used.

Do you think we are more likely to find scum on the wagon? Who do you think is scum?

Sure, I worded it poorly. Regardless, I don't think it's good to just focus on the people who weren't on those two wagons.

[LaLight]

I could actually see the trident being a protective item- 1-shot bp maybe? Doesn’t Finnick use it to like pull away other people’s weapons?

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

So you think LaLight just made it up without doing any research?

I think more likely LaLight is just sharing the role they got

Just seems more likely to me that LaLight would look something up on a wiki and get it wrong than get their PM wrong.

Also, not sure Motion Detector actually makes any sense with LaLight’s softclaim in #333. It’s not a terribly powerful role, especially in RMM.

How exactly could I look something on Wiki? Try googling Fox Ears, I am not that dumb

Also I did claim to have a powerful role to draw the nightkill, this was the plan all along

[LaLight]

Talking about mistakes, Swan made a mistake in my original QT as well, until I, as well, pointed it out

[ashersky]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

I am saying that if you/your team killed mm last night, it was because you thought he was town and expected everyone else to think he was town.  Hammering scum generally does that, and one less lynch option on the table is generally bad for scum.  It's why scum likes to (in general) remove ICs and very towny players from the board in general.

That's all fine thinking for a scum team.  Right or wrong, it is definitely common.  You laid that out as the most likely reasoning behind the killing -- in thread.  I am saying that you did that because you also did it last night, in your scum QT.

That's why I said it was a scumslip.

[MiX]

Talking about mistakes, Swan made a mistake in my original QT as well, until I, as well, pointed it out

Same here. Also I was the cause for the "delay" this night.

[ashersky]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

You sound like you know there are scum other than mafia.

I think there are as of today.  Someone killed mm and it wasn't mm's faction.  It supposedly wasn't 2.7, who may or may not be town, but either way, someone shot.

So, the only options are town killing role, non-mafia scum, or own-team kill.  Remove the third option because it's ridiculous, and we are left with the only two that make sense.

If 2.7 is town vig and didn't shoot, other scum faction did.
If 2.7 is town vig and did shoot, he lied, which seems problematic.
If 2.7 is lying about being a vig, a hidden town vig or other scum faction did the kill.

The mafia kill was blocked/doctored/delayed.  Someone else killed mafia.  I'm assuming it wasn't town until town owns up to it, so yes, I am playing as if there is another scum faction out there.

(Note, in all cases, other scum faction can be 1 or 2 players -- SK is still a scum faction)

[ashersky]

I mean, someone posited 2.7 was lying from the get-go to cover his scum NK.  So that's still possible, and he wouldn't have been partners with mm.

Shooting your own partner with your NK at night is about the riskiest move possible and it is hard to see any positive reasoning -- you don't get the cred a hammer does, for one.

[MiX]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

I am saying that if you/your team killed mm last night, it was because you thought he was town and expected everyone else to think he was town.  Hammering scum generally does that, and one less lynch option on the table is generally bad for scum.  It's why scum likes to (in general) remove ICs and very towny players from the board in general.

That's all fine thinking for a scum team.  Right or wrong, it is definitely common.  You laid that out as the most likely reasoning behind the killing -- in thread.  I am saying that you did that because you also did it last night, in your scum QT.

That's why I said it was a scumslip.

Did you start the game knowing faust is part of the other scumteam, or what, I don't remember a time where you weren't scumreading faust.

I do agree with you, I think overall scum would be thinking like faust. But I don't think that implies the reverse.

I mean, someone posited 2.7 was lying from the get-go to cover his scum NK.  So that's still possible, and he wouldn't have been partners with mm.

Shooting your own partner with your NK at night is about the riskiest move possible and it is hard to see any positive reasoning -- you don't get the cred a hammer does, for one.

But he didn't shoot, right?

[ashersky]

Did you start the game knowing faust is part of the other scumteam, or what, I don't remember a time where you weren't scumreading faust.

I do agree with you, I think overall scum would be thinking like faust. But I don't think that implies the reverse.

I mean, someone posited 2.7 was lying from the get-go to cover his scum NK.  So that's still possible, and he wouldn't have been partners with mm.

Shooting your own partner with your NK at night is about the riskiest move possible and it is hard to see any positive reasoning -- you don't get the cred a hammer does, for one.

But he didn't shoot, right?

I did not.  I am just very sure now, more sure than I was on D1.

2.7 claims he didn't shoot.  That's a defensible option to take.  Or he tried to shoot, but his victim wasn't MM and isn't dead, so doesn't know what's up and doesn't want to give info away.  Or other options.

[ashersky]

To be clear: I think town can lie and not be bad.  There are times when town lying makes sense.  I don't know if 2.7 is in that position now or not.

[faust]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

You sound like you know there are scum other than mafia.

I think there are as of today.  Someone killed mm and it wasn't mm's faction.  It supposedly wasn't 2.7, who may or may not be town, but either way, someone shot.

So, the only options are town killing role, non-mafia scum, or own-team kill.  Remove the third option because it's ridiculous, and we are left with the only two that make sense.

If 2.7 is town vig and didn't shoot, other scum faction did.
If 2.7 is town vig and did shoot, he lied, which seems problematic.
If 2.7 is lying about being a vig, a hidden town vig or other scum faction did the kill.

The mafia kill was blocked/doctored/delayed.  Someone else killed mafia.  I'm assuming it wasn't town until town owns up to it, so yes, I am playing as if there is another scum faction out there.

(Note, in all cases, other scum faction can be 1 or 2 players -- SK is still a scum faction)

Another option by the way is a town redirector.

[faust]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

I am saying that if you/your team killed mm last night, it was because you thought he was town and expected everyone else to think he was town.  Hammering scum generally does that, and one less lynch option on the table is generally bad for scum.  It's why scum likes to (in general) remove ICs and very towny players from the board in general.

That's all fine thinking for a scum team.  Right or wrong, it is definitely common.  You laid that out as the most likely reasoning behind the killing -- in thread.  I am saying that you did that because you also did it last night, in your scum QT.

That's why I said it was a scumslip.

And if you agree that this is common reasoning, why do you think I would reason this way as scum, but not as town?

[faust]

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

On what grounds though? I mean obvously "have to lynch" is a pretty strong wording that outright dismisses other options. It's also a wording I never used.

Do you think we are more likely to find scum on the wagon? Who do you think is scum?

Sure, I worded it poorly. Regardless, I don't think it's good to just focus on the people who weren't on those two wagons.

Bolded for emphasis. I'm still hoping for an answer.

[faust]

ashersky: Since you operate under the assumption that there is a third party, do you think they would try to shoot mafia N1?

[cayvie]

I think there are as of today.  Someone killed mm and it wasn't mm's faction.  It supposedly wasn't 2.7, who may or may not be town, but either way, someone shot.

So, the only options are town killing role, non-mafia scum, or own-team kill.  Remove the third option because it's ridiculous, and we are left with the only two that make sense.

If 2.7 is town vig and didn't shoot, other scum faction did.
If 2.7 is town vig and did shoot, he lied, which seems problematic.
If 2.7 is lying about being a vig, a hidden town vig or other scum faction did the kill.

The mafia kill was blocked/doctored/delayed.  Someone else killed mafia.  I'm assuming it wasn't town until town owns up to it, so yes, I am playing as if there is another scum faction out there.

(Note, in all cases, other scum faction can be 1 or 2 players -- SK is still a scum faction)

There is also a re director possibility out there; that a lucky re director shot made the mafia kill each other.

Anyway, unvote, shraeye's story makes enough sense for me for now.

PPE: dang, faust came out swingin today

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

So I'm in the midst of a reread and wanted to point out this conversation. It made me think that mail-mi may have been trying to sound out if there's a traitor

Or maybe it's just scum trying to look busy by doing setup talk and NAI

[A Drowned Kernel]

here's a thing i've been wondering:

how likely do people think it is that there's a scum/scum district out there?

depends on how much scum there is, I suppose. I don't think we should base scum reads off of district.

Also, lol

[cayvie]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

So I'm in the midst of a reread and wanted to point out this conversation. It made me think that mail-mi may have been trying to sound out if there's a traitor

Or maybe it's just scum trying to look busy by doing setup talk and NAI

oh duh, a traitor getting recruited is another possible explanation for a lack of nightkill.

[Lekkit]

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

On what grounds though? I mean obvously "have to lynch" is a pretty strong wording that outright dismisses other options. It's also a wording I never used.

Do you think we are more likely to find scum on the wagon? Who do you think is scum?

Sure, I worded it poorly. Regardless, I don't think it's good to just focus on the people who weren't on those two wagons.

Bolded for emphasis. I'm still hoping for an answer.

I'll get back to you on that matter.

[A Drowned Kernel]

i currently have many townreads but not very many scumreads. I need to do a reread, which I hope I can get to tonight or tomorrow.

Give me your gut reaction on the scum-radar.  I don't care if you can't back itup.

let me respond to this.

ash v. faust seems like town v town.
you're town.
I can see cayvie's reasoning for WCD right now, she isn't as townie as she usually is.
I still think e could be scum, though I don't know if that lynch is happening today
--side note on the e thing, do we want to try to direct the vig shot or let him use it? I'm not sure if I trust him.
where has EFHW been? I thought I remembered her usually being more active, would be willing to put a vote there.
*I'm looking at the player list now to remember who all is in the game*
Raptor has made like, what, 4 posts? i think that's a little too much lurking to be scum
Glooble said he's busy, so I'll give him a bit of a pass
MiX seems like MiX, can't tell if scum or town
I'm still not down on the scola lynch.

so let's do some scum-to-chum with my gut feels:

scummy: EFHW, WCD, Raptor, e,
neutral-to-scummy: glooble, Lalight, lekkit,
neutral: ADK, Jimmmmm, cayvie, MiX
neutral-to-town: scola, faust
town: ash, shraeye, mail-mi

Here's a nice juicy post, I'll just quote it for ease of reference

[A Drowned Kernel]

Alright, after a reread:

Unlikely to be mail-mi and raptor's partner: cayvie, glooble, mix, EFHW, e, lalight, didds, faust, shraeye, jim, ash
Could still be other scum: glooble, EFHW, faust, jim

On a reread I realized that shraeye's whole "we should claim our rank" and "#1 isn't going to be killed by scum" was likely (he didn't say as much but it's what I gathered) based on believing that scum was able to collude during the ranking phase, so that's basically a townslip from him

Looking back at mail-mi's list, I think it's unlikely he put multiple partners on the scummier end of his list

So where I'm left right now is vote: scolapasta

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.1:

scolapasta (2): faust, ADK

Not Voting (12): Cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, scolapasta, Lekkit, Shraeye

With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time.

[shraeye]

PPE: dang, faust came out swingin today

But did he, really?

What are your thoughts on D2 faust?

[faust]

Unlikely to be mail-mi and raptor's partner: cayvie, glooble, mix, EFHW, e, lalight, didds, faust, shraeye, jim, ash
Could still be other scum: glooble, EFHW, faust, jim

Am I understanding correctly that you basically think everyone on the upper list that isn't on the lowe list is definitely town?

[2.71828.....]

Alright, after a reread:

Unlikely to be mail-mi and raptor's partner: cayvie, glooble, mix, EFHW, e, lalight, didds, faust, shraeye, jim, ash
Could still be other scum: glooble, EFHW, faust, jim

How is faust on the lower list?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Unlikely to be mail-mi and raptor's partner: cayvie, glooble, mix, EFHW, e, lalight, didds, faust, shraeye, jim, ash
Could still be other scum: glooble, EFHW, faust, jim

Am I understanding correctly that you basically think everyone on the upper list that isn't on the lowe list is definitely town?

Pretty much, that's where I'm at

[A Drowned Kernel]

Alright, after a reread:

Unlikely to be mail-mi and raptor's partner: cayvie, glooble, mix, EFHW, e, lalight, didds, faust, shraeye, jim, ash
Could still be other scum: glooble, EFHW, faust, jim

How is faust on the lower list?

I'm not 100% convinced he's town?

[cayvie]

PPE: dang, faust came out swingin today

But did he, really?

What are your thoughts on D2 faust?

well i certainly tried to submit that post 3 times and each time it was like "another 2 posts from faust!"

i'm not sure what my thoughts are! he feels different, certainly.

[WestCoastDidds]

Talking about mistakes, Swan made a mistake in my original QT as well, until I, as well, pointed it out

Same here. Also I was the cause for the "delay" this night.

This is a delicious little nugget. Would it be interesting for us to know to why?

[MiX]

Talking about mistakes, Swan made a mistake in my original QT as well, until I, as well, pointed it out

Same here. Also I was the cause for the "delay" this night.

This is a delicious little nugget. Would it be interesting for us to know to why?

Yes! But not useful.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, MiX...you are a tease!

[WestCoastDidds]

But useful matters, so okay :/

[ashersky]

ashersky: Since you operate under the assumption that there is a third party, do you think they would try to shoot mafia N1?

If there was a third party, I think they might.  I would.

[cayvie]

So Didds. She goes after LaLight for the first part of Day 1, then posts this:

Also, LL is towny so far when taking into consideration his District QT posts.

Hmmm....this is good to know. I believe Ash to be town (at least for now, he has fooled me before, so there is that) so I’m willing to trust his assessment for now.

I’ve been voting for LL for awhile now, but not for any reason of substance, just general feelings.

Vote: Lekkit

I have no reason not to find them scummy at this point... I have a slight preference for them over Raptor because there was that one game one time that raptor was awesome on D2.

PPE...a rather interesting discussion with MiX

"Lekkit and raptor are scummy, i'll vote Lekkit"

Okay, I've reread all 24 of LaLight's posts, and I'm still pretty confident with my vote on them.

Here's my D1-case:

- Voting history: LaLight jumped on the Scola wagon when it first formed and my wagon, with no real reasons. So there's opportunistic voting here.
- Most posts are short, and many of them are just fluff, with only a few content forming posts.
- This:

I was pretty high up top the draft order, so you might want not to lynch me here, guys

is not really a defense, scum could also be high-up in the draft order. Not necessarily alignment-indicative, but not a good defense.
- This:

why are you so fixed on me? this just feels weird

In my experience, scum tends to notice others reads on them more often than scum does. So this makes LaLight more scummy.

Here is my D1 LaLight case, maybe not the strongest thing, but good enough for D1. Let's lynch him.

This was my thought about LaLight as well. I do not think we have reason to believe that is a bad lynch

I still need to go back and read MiX carefully, but I am knee deep in boring administrative work right now so I don't have time right now. In a Mail-mi v MiX world, I am more willing to vote for MiX, just on my sense that is playing with a deliberateness that seems uncharacteristic. But he has been scum a lot recently so maybe my meta-meter is off, I don't know. Still, in the interest of consolidation

vote: MiX

"oh, we're consolidating on mail-mi v MiX? I vote MiX"

Then, as we're nearing the end of Day 1, I start the raptor wagon, there's three votes in rapid succession, and then WCD joins the wagon 4th

But then she switches back to MiX soon after mail-mi posts an intent to hammer, and raptor claims to have a "healing role".

it looks like e convinces her to reluctantly rejoin the raptor wagon (with a potshot at faust thrown in):

Alright, alright...

Vote: raptor

But faust is looking pretty scummy in the last hour

I think that is L-1

all in all, combined with my weird vibes i was getting off her day 1, i'm gonna vote: WestCoastDidds

that's two different times she put forth a pair of candidates, each one including a now-confirmed mafioso, and decided to vote for the other one. and then i think she was pretty clearly hesitant to lynch raptor at the end, but felt she had to go along or look scummy.

let's lynch her.

[cayvie]

A mistake. She did not think Lekkit and raptor were scummy at the time, she thought they were lurking. Replace the relevant sentence of mine above with

"Lekkit and raptor are lurking, I'll vote Lekkit"

[LaLight]

i actually like that case a lot

vote: wcd

[WestCoastDidds]

Couple of things.....

I won’t quote Cayve directly because it would be huge.

But the first point was that I didn’t want to vote for raptor because he was awesome on D2 in another game. He was awesome In a another game on D2. And I said that well before there was consolidation and more in the time we were talking about lurkers. Having some frame of reference for the lurking was better than no frame of reference.

I went back and looked at the list I made in the Qt for ADK, and my scummy/lurky folks were Glooble, Raptor, Lekkit, and Mail-mi. (EFHW and LL were my scummy, not lurky ones). I know I posted that in the main thread, too, but I’ll hav eye go find it when I’m at a computer.,

The next thing argument is that I preferred MiX to MM and that is scummy.  I haven’t played with MM enough to have a sense of his play, but MIX was/is playing more laid back than usual.

Then going back to raptor was scummy? That doesn’t make sense, but here is my thinking....I voted for raptor shortly after Cayvie because I would have rather lynched a lurker than MiX (this is a typical sentiment with me), but then the votes on him came in quick succession. It felt too fast and perhaps being driven by a heap of scum. I didn’t unvote because he had healing, I unvoted for him because of the speed. When faust called MM chicken for not hammering, I wanted to take a breath because that kind of baiting seems really weird to me. (It still does! Like maybe MM and faust are buddies) At that point, I it felt like the decision was between raptor and no lynch. So, I went back to raptor figuring that even if it was a mislynch, we weren’t losing much in terms of interaction.

I was stunned that he was scum. I haven’t been playing all that long, but I don’t think I’ve ever been part of lynching scum day one. Especially not in a last few hours zero-to-lynched move. I’m also stunned to be alive, figuring that revealing my draft order was a death knell, but that it wasn’t useful to speculate that scolapasta was #1 when he wasn’t. I guess I still might be poisoned, so we’ll see.

Anyway, being tentative and voting for lurkers isn’t a surprise from me. I appreciate that cavyie is trying to take a good look, but the LL follow is less impressive.

[faust]

The case on Didds is reasonable enough, but I'd still prefer to lynch scolapasta.

[shraeye]

PPE: dang, faust came out swingin today

But did he, really?

What are your thoughts on D2 faust?

well i certainly tried to submit that post 3 times and each time it was like "another 2 posts from faust!"

i'm not sure what my thoughts are! he feels different, certainly.

Different compared to D1 faust?  Or faust from other games?

[ashersky]

That's some unfortunate coincidence for WCD, to be sure.  Also seems like not great scum play to put forth two pairs, one each with confirmed scum.

Are we assuming 3 mafia + 1 SK?  Or 2 mafia + 2 werewolves?  Either are possible, I suppose, and mafia chose to use the delayed shot to confuse.  Then SK shot mafia on purpose or accident, and WCD is the third mafia?

I mean, possible.

[ashersky]

The case on Didds is reasonable enough, but I'd still prefer to lynch scolapasta.

Can you provide an overview of the case against scolapasta?  I assume it is reads-based.

[ashersky]

Also, if someone has a guilty result on someone, I think it is definitely worth claiming at this point.  Two down, one or two to go, put your knowledge to good use.

[cayvie]

PPE: dang, faust came out swingin today

But did he, really?

What are your thoughts on D2 faust?

well i certainly tried to submit that post 3 times and each time it was like "another 2 posts from faust!"

i'm not sure what my thoughts are! he feels different, certainly.

Different compared to D1 faust?  Or faust from other games?

this is my first game with faust. compared to d1.

[ashersky]

PPE: dang, faust came out swingin today

But did he, really?

What are your thoughts on D2 faust?

well i certainly tried to submit that post 3 times and each time it was like "another 2 posts from faust!"

i'm not sure what my thoughts are! he feels different, certainly.

Different compared to D1 faust?  Or faust from other games?

this is my first game with faust. compared to d1.

Differently good, or differently bad?

(Please say bad.)

[cayvie]

Differently good, or differently bad?

(Please say bad.)

lol i don't know!! i've never played with faust before so i've never watched him flip. just his intensity feels much higher today. idk what that means about him, if anything.

[2.71828.....]

The case on Didds is reasonable enough, but I'd still prefer to lynch scolapasta.

Meh. Not feeling the case on WCD.

The last two votes on a D1 scum lynch are busses?

That doesn't happen.  Even if it does I will give her a pass for today.

[2.71828.....]

I do get a scummy feel from scolapasta.

Need to read them

[shraeye]

Differently good, or differently bad?

(Please say bad.)

faust seems pretty regular to me; that's why I'm so curious how cayvie's takeaway is different

[WestCoastDidds]

Differently good, or differently bad?

(Please say bad.)

faust seems pretty regular to me; that's why I'm so curious how cayvie's takeaway is different

Same

[Lekkit]

The case on Didds is reasonable enough, but I'd still prefer to lynch scolapasta.

Meh. Not feeling the case on WCD.

The last two votes on a D1 scum lynch are busses?

That doesn't happen.  Even if it does I will give her a pass for today.

Very much this. I would be very surprised if they are teammates with Raptor and mail-mi.

[cayvie]

The case on Didds is reasonable enough, but I'd still prefer to lynch scolapasta.

Meh. Not feeling the case on WCD.

The last two votes on a D1 scum lynch are busses?

That doesn't happen.  Even if it does I will give her a pass for today.

i think it's important to remember that mail-mi's hammer came at a time when ashersky had already claimed hammer and had just not logged on yet.

[shraeye]

Explain why that's important.

Are you telling me I shouldn't give mail-mi any towncred for that hammer??!  I disagree; I'm townreading mail-mi so hard, and you can't change my mind.

[cayvie]

Explain why that's important.

Are you telling me I shouldn't give mail-mi any towncred for that hammer??!  I disagree; I'm townreading mail-mi so hard, and you can't change my mind.

i think it's important because it makes the scenario where scum!WCD and then scum!mail-mi put the final two votes on scum possible

[EFHW]

Day 1 voting record

Code: [Select]

Vote count at post #93
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
Not Voting (15): ADK, ashersky, Didds, e, faust, EFHW, Glooble, Jimmmmm, Raptor, Lalight, MiX, Lekkit, Shraeye, cayvie, scolapasta

Vote count at post #96
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Not Voting (14): ashersky, Didds, e, faust, EFHW, Glooble, Jimmmmm, Raptor, Lalight, MiX, Lekkit, Shraeye, cayvie, scolapasta

Vote count at post #97
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
Not Voting (13): ashersky, Didds, e, faust, EFHW, Jimmmmm, Raptor, Lalight, MiX, Lekkit, Shraeye, cayvie, scolapasta

Vote count at post #106
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (1): cayvie
Not Voting (12): ashersky, Didds, e, faust, EFHW, Jimmmmm, Raptor, Lalight, MiX, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta

Vote count at post #107
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (1): cayvie
faust (1): ashersky
Not Voting (11): Didds, e, faust, EFHW, Jimmmmm, Raptor, Lalight, MiX, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta

Vote count at post #127
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (2): cayvie, e
faust (1): ashersky
Not Voting (10): Didds, faust, EFHW, Jimmmmm, Raptor, Lalight, MiX, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta

Vote count at post #148
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (2): cayvie, e
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (9): Didds, faust, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, MiX, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta

Vote count at post #149
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (2): cayvie, e
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (1): Jimmmmm
cayvie (1): MiX
Not Voting (8): Didds, faust, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta

Vote count at post #180
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (2): cayvie, e
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (9): Didds, faust, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta, MiX

Vote count at post #182
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (1): e
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (10): Didds, faust, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta, MiX, cayvie

Vote count at post #192
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (1): e
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): faust
Not Voting (9): Didds, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta, MiX, cayvie

Vote count at post #208
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
ADK (1): e
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): faust
Not Voting (10): Didds, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta, MiX, cayvie, mailmi

Vote count at post #212
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
MiX (1): faust
Not Voting (10): Didds, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, scolapasta, MiX, cayvie, mailmi

Vote count at post #252
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
MiX (1): faust
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Not Voting (9): Didds, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, scolapasta, MiX, cayvie, mailmi

Vote count at post #259
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Not Voting (9): Didds, EFHW, Raptor, Lalight, Lekkit, scolapasta, MiX, cayvie, mailmi

Vote count at post #260
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, faust, Lalight
Not Voting (8): Didds, EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit, scolapasta, MiX, cayvie, mailmi

Vote count at post #262
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, faust, Lalight
Lalight (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): Didds, EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit, scolapasta, cayvie, mailmi

Vote count at post #270
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, faust, Lalight
Lalight (2): MiX, Didds
Not Voting (6): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit, scolapasta, cayvie, mailmi

Vote count at post #283
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, faust, Lalight
Lalight (2): MiX, Didds
Didds (1): cayvie
Not Voting (5): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit, scolapasta, mailmi

Vote count at post #291
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, faust, Lalight
Lalight (2): MiX, Didds
Didds (1): cayvie
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Not Voting (4): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit, mailmi

Vote count at post #292
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, faust, Lalight
Lalight (2): MiX, Didds
Didds (1): cayvie
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit

Vote count at post #326
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, faust, Lalight
Lalight (3): MiX, Didds, cayvie
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit

Vote count at post #338
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): MiX, Didds, cayvie
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Raptor (1): Lalight
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit

Vote count at post #340
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, cayvie
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Raptor (2): Lalight, MiX
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit

Vote count at post #352
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (1): Jimmmmm
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, cayvie, e
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Raptor (2): Lalight, MiX
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit

Vote count at post #356
EFHW (1): ADK
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, cayvie
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Raptor (2): Lalight, MiX
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit

Vote count at post #366
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (3): Jimmmmm, cayvie, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (1): scolapasta
Raptor (2): Lalight, MiX
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Raptor, Lekkit

Vote count at post #414
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (3): Jimmmmm, cayvie, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (2): Lalight, MiX
Not Voting (2): EFHW, Lekkit

Vote count at post #420
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (2): Lalight, MiX
ashersky (1): cayvie
Not Voting (2): EFHW, Lekkit

Vote count at post #422
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (2): Lalight, MiX
ashersky (2): cayvie, EFHW
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #431
Lekkit (1): Glooble
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (2): cayvie, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #438
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (3): cayvie, EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #491
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, e, cayvie
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (2): EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #506
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, e, cayvie
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, MiX
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #507
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, e, cayvie
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (2): EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #525
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (3): Didds, e, cayvie
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (2): EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
e (1): faust
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #526
faust (2): ashersky, mailmi
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (2): EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
e (2): faust, cayvie
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #537
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
Raptor (1): Lalight
ashersky (2): EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
e (3): faust, cayvie, mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #594
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (2): scolapasta, Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, Lalight
EFHW (1): MiX
e (3): faust, cayvie, mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #602
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (4): EFHW, Glooble, Lalight, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
e (3): faust, cayvie, mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #653
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (2): Jimmmmm, ADK
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, cayvie
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (4): EFHW, Glooble, Lalight, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
e (2): faust, mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #654
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (3): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, cayvie
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
e (2): faust, mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #664
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (3): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, cayvie, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, e
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
e (1): mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #700
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, cayvie, faust
Lalight (1): Didds
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
e (1): mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #708
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, cayvie, faust
Lalight (1): Didds
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
EFHW (2): MiX, mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #710
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (3): Shraeye, cayvie, faust
Lalight (1): Didds
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
Raptor (1): mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #745
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (2): Didds, cayvie
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
Raptor (1): mailmi
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #746
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, cayvie, mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, Glooble, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #751
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, cayvie, mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
EFHW (1): MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #772
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, cayvie, mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #787
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (2): Shraeye, faust
Lalight (3): Didds, cayvie, mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Raptor (1): Glooble
Not Voting (2): Lekkit, MiX

Vote count at post #794
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (3): Didds, cayvie, mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (1): faust
Not Voting (2): Lekkit, MiX

Vote count at post #798
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (2): cayvie, mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (1): faust
Lekkit (1): Didds
Not Voting (2): Lekkit, MiX

Vote count at post #805
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (2): cayvie, mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (1): faust
Lekkit (1): Didds
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #809
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (1): mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (1): faust
Lekkit (2): Didds, cayvie
Not Voting (1): Lekkit

Vote count at post #817
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (1): mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (1): faust
Lekkit (2): Didds, cayvie

Vote count at post #829
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit
scolapasta (1): Shraeye
Lalight (1): mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (1): faust
Lekkit (1): cayvie
Glooble (1): Didds

Vote count at post #832
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit
Lalight (1): mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (2): faust, Shraeye
Lekkit (1): cayvie
Glooble (1): Didds

Vote count at post #836
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (6): Jimmmmm, ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, cayvie
Lalight (1): mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (2): faust, Shraeye
Glooble (1): Didds

Vote count at post #842
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, cayvie
Lalight (1): mailmi
Shraeye (1): Raptor
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (2): faust, Shraeye
Glooble (1): Didds
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #869
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, cayvie
Lalight (1): mailmi
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (3): faust, Shraeye, Raptor
Glooble (1): Didds
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #874
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, cayvie
Lalight (1): mailmi
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, Raptor, Didds
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #880
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit
Lalight (1): mailmi
ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, MiX
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (1): cayvie
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #907
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, MiX
Lalight (1): mailmi
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
Raptor (1): Glooble
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (1): cayvie
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #912
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, MiX
Lalight (2): mailmi, Glooble
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (1): cayvie
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #915
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit
Lalight (3): mailmi, Glooble, MiX
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (1): cayvie
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #923
faust (1): ashersky
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit
Lalight (2): mailmi, Glooble
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (2): cayvie, MiX
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

Vote count at post #949
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit
Lalight (2): mailmi, Glooble
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Shraeye, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (2): cayvie, MiX
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #962
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, Shraeye
Lalight (2): mailmi, Glooble
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
MiX (3): faust, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (2): cayvie, MiX
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #967
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, Shraeye
Lalight (1): Glooble
ashersky (2): EFHW, scolapasta
MiX (3): faust, Raptor, Didds
Jimmmmm (3): cayvie, MiX, mailmi
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #975
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, Shraeye
Lalight (1): Glooble
ashersky (1): scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, Didds, EFHW
Jimmmmm (3): cayvie, MiX, mailmi
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #976
mailmi (6): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, Shraeye, MiX
Lalight (1): Glooble
ashersky (1): scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, Didds, EFHW
Jimmmmm (2): cayvie, mailmi
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #980
mailmi (6): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, Shraeye, MiX
Lalight (1): Glooble
ashersky (1): scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, Didds, EFHW
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
Raptor (1): cayvie
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #982
mailmi (6): ADK, Lalight, e, Lekkit, Shraeye, MiX
ashersky (1): scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, Didds, EFHW
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
Raptor (2): cayvie, Glooble
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #984
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, MiX
ashersky (1): scolapasta
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, Didds, EFHW
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
Raptor (3): cayvie, Glooble, e
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #985
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, MiX
ashersky (1): scolapasta
MiX (3): faust, Raptor, EFHW
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
Raptor (4): cayvie, Glooble, e, Didds
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #987
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, MiX
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, EFHW, scolapasta
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
Raptor (4): cayvie, Glooble, e, Didds
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #988
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, EFHW, scolapasta
Jimmmmm (1): mailmi
Raptor (5): cayvie, Glooble, e, Didds, MiX
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #989
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, EFHW, scolapasta
Raptor (6): cayvie, Glooble, e, Didds, MiX, mailmi
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #995
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (3): faust, Raptor, scolapasta
Raptor (7): cayvie, Glooble, e, Didds, MiX, mailmi, EFHW
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #997
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, scolapasta, mailmi
Raptor (6): cayvie, Glooble, e, Didds, MiX, EFHW
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1000
mailmi (5): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye, e
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, scolapasta, mailmi
Raptor (5): cayvie, Glooble, Didds, MiX, EFHW
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1009
mailmi (4): ADK, Lalight, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, scolapasta, mailmi
Raptor (6): cayvie, Glooble, Didds, MiX, EFHW, e
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1021
mailmi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): faust, Raptor, scolapasta, mailmi
Raptor (7): cayvie, Glooble, Didds, MiX, EFHW, e, Lalight
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1041
mailmi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (3): Raptor, scolapasta, mailmi
Raptor (8): cayvie, Glooble, Didds, MiX, EFHW, e, Lalight, faust
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1049
mailmi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (4): Raptor, scolapasta, mailmi, Didds
Raptor (7): cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, e, Lalight, faust
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1059
mailmi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (3): scolapasta, mailmi, Didds
Raptor (7): cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, e, Lalight, faust
faust (1): Raptor
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1075
mailmi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (2): scolapasta, mailmi
Raptor (8): cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, e, Lalight, faust, Didds
faust (1): Raptor
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky

Vote count at post #1077
mailmi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
MiX (1): scolapasta
Raptor (9): cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, e, Lalight, faust, Didds, mailmi
faust (1): Raptor
Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, ashersky


[EFHW]

Explain why that's important.

Are you telling me I shouldn't give mail-mi any towncred for that hammer??!  I disagree; I'm townreading mail-mi so hard, and you can't change my mind.

You know he's dead, right?

I'm behind - that vote counting took way too long. Hoping to glean some insights from it.

[cayvie]

Explain why that's important.

Are you telling me I shouldn't give mail-mi any towncred for that hammer??!  I disagree; I'm townreading mail-mi so hard, and you can't change my mind.

You know he's dead, right?

I'm behind - that vote counting took way too long. Hoping to glean some insights from it.

yeah he knows. he's trolling me.

incidentally check the district, if you haven't

[A Drowned Kernel]

Didds isn't someone I want to lynch today, probably not ever, partially based on district stuff

[faust]

The case on Didds is reasonable enough, but I'd still prefer to lynch scolapasta.

Can you provide an overview of the case against scolapasta?  I assume it is reads-based.

Part this, part PoE. I think there would have been mafia who wasn't on the Raptor or mail-mi wagons. Among these people, Jimmmm has pushed mail-mi early on, and you were gunning for both mail-mi and Raptor and were virtually voting for Raptor anyways, in that you would have hammered. I felt that scolapasta didn't react convincingly D1 when shraeye pushed him, he avoided voting for mail-mi and Raptor without ever going out of his way to defend them, which is the spot I expect newb!scum to be in with regrads to their partners.

[faust]

That's some unfortunate coincidence for WCD, to be sure.  Also seems like not great scum play to put forth two pairs, one each with confirmed scum.

Are we assuming 3 mafia + 1 SK?  Or 2 mafia + 2 werewolves?  Either are possible, I suppose, and mafia chose to use the delayed shot to confuse.  Then SK shot mafia on purpose or accident, and WCD is the third mafia?

I mean, possible.

This game has 16 players, and is RMM. Your numbers are too low. I think that more reasonable expectations would be 4+1, or 3+3.

[WestCoastDidds]

Explain why that's important.

Are you telling me I shouldn't give mail-mi any towncred for that hammer??!  I disagree; I'm townreading mail-mi so hard, and you can't change my mind.

i think it's important because it makes the scenario where scum!WCD and then scum!mail-mi put the final two votes on scum possible

It’s just doesn’t make any sense to me. If mail-mi and raptor are my partners, I’d just stay parked on MiX and not even bother coming around at deadline, or if I did come around, I wouldn’t switch from a safe vote to my partner, back to the safe vote, then back to my partner so that I help ensure he dies.

There is no version of me that plays like that.

[MiX]

That's some unfortunate coincidence for WCD, to be sure.  Also seems like not great scum play to put forth two pairs, one each with confirmed scum.

Are we assuming 3 mafia + 1 SK?  Or 2 mafia + 2 werewolves?  Either are possible, I suppose, and mafia chose to use the delayed shot to confuse.  Then SK shot mafia on purpose or accident, and WCD is the third mafia?

I mean, possible.

This game has 16 players, and is RMM. Your numbers are too low. I think that more reasonable expectations would be 4+1, or 3+3.

3+3 is too many, and 3+2 is unbalanced. I believe 2+2 is possible, with a weird third-party like survivor, or not even that. We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

PPE: If you weren't on either wagon, you would probably be getting more votes now, right? So in retrospect it's a pretty safe play, wouldn't you say?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’d say it’s a pretty town play, but that’s cause I know I’m town.

[faust]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

[MiX]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

A 3-shot reloader in town's hands is also extremely powerful, I don't think scum's powers are the same as town's with that flip. Think about how good a 3-shot reloader is with any killing role, there's no way they didn't balance around it.

[LaLight]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

A 3-shot reloader in town's hands is also extremely powerful, I don't think scum's powers are the same as town's with that flip. Think about how good a 3-shot reloader is with any killing role, there's no way they didn't balance around it.

raptor was reloader with a flask though

i think mail-mi was sort of a goon and raptor had his role

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.2:

scolapasta (2): faust, ADK
WCD (2): Cayvie, LaLight

Not Voting (10): Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, scolapasta, Lekkit, Shraeye

With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time.

[Lekkit]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

A 3-shot reloader in town's hands is also extremely powerful, I don't think scum's powers are the same as town's with that flip. Think about how good a 3-shot reloader is with any killing role, there's no way they didn't balance around it.

raptor was reloader with a flask though

i think mail-mi was sort of a goon and raptor had his role

That is an interesting way of seeing it. I thought the flask made the reloading and the berries the poisoning.

[LaLight]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

A 3-shot reloader in town's hands is also extremely powerful, I don't think scum's powers are the same as town's with that flip. Think about how good a 3-shot reloader is with any killing role, there's no way they didn't balance around it.

raptor was reloader with a flask though

i think mail-mi was sort of a goon and raptor had his role

That is an interesting way of seeing it. I thought the flask made the reloading and the berries the poisoning.

hmm
I sort of believed Raptor when he said Flask cures poison. I guess you're right, I never thought of that

[A Drowned Kernel]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

A 3-shot reloader in town's hands is also extremely powerful, I don't think scum's powers are the same as town's with that flip. Think about how good a 3-shot reloader is with any killing role, there's no way they didn't balance around it.

I've mentioned this before and I don't know how important it is, but my role seems completely unmodified for me being town

[MiX]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

A 3-shot reloader in town's hands is also extremely powerful, I don't think scum's powers are the same as town's with that flip. Think about how good a 3-shot reloader is with any killing role, there's no way they didn't balance around it.

I've mentioned this before and I don't know how important it is, but my role seems completely unmodified for me being town

Lekkit has just pointed that out in the neighborhood, but thanks.

I feel like that makes LaLight's theory correct, and Raptor probably got the reloader item while being a reloader already. That would be weird, but possible I suppose.

[Lekkit]

I think the reloader came from the flask.

[MiX]

I think the reloader came from the flask.

3 shots sounds like a lot. Imagine that with 1-shot vig! Could be different targets however.

[cayvie]

We did have a 3-shot reloader with a 1-shot poisoner, the sky's the limit.

You are aware that the mods did not distribute these powers to scum, yes?

A 3-shot reloader in town's hands is also extremely powerful, I don't think scum's powers are the same as town's with that flip. Think about how good a 3-shot reloader is with any killing role, there's no way they didn't balance around it.

a mafia reloader is so much nastier than a town reloader, because you know whom to target starting day 1. If i was a reloader RN i'd be targeting e and crossing my fingers, but so much more can go wrong there. we really dodged a berry with that one.

[cayvie]

Didds isn't someone I want to lynch today, probably not ever, partially based on district stuff

okaaaaaay

unvote

[ashersky]

Wait, are we assuming players had role powers other than whatever item they got?  That wasn’t my understanding at all.  We were all Vanilla and gained a power from our item. 

Is there something I missed?  Or only scum did that so we have slips in play?

[ashersky]

@faust

Thank for the pasta answer. Seems okay.

Also good point on my numbers — I still think 4 in possible, maybe 5.  So any permutations in that range.

[MiX]

Wait, are we assuming players had role powers other than whatever item they got?  That wasn’t my understanding at all.  We were all Vanilla and gained a power from our item. 

Is there something I missed?  Or only scum did that so we have slips in play?

We are playing around the idea that scum could have innate roles before item draft. But now I think that's pretty unlikely.

[LaLight]

Wait, are we assuming players had role powers other than whatever item they got?  That wasn’t my understanding at all.  We were all Vanilla and gained a power from our item. 

Is there something I missed?  Or only scum did that so we have slips in play?

well, I didn't think about that, but when raptor flipped, I just made a mental note that he was a reloader already with the item that can cure poison, because I believed his claim

then, right about Lekkit's post, I turned on my critical thinking and i think you're right

[LaLight]

Wait, are we assuming players had role powers other than whatever item they got?  That wasn’t my understanding at all.  We were all Vanilla and gained a power from our item. 

Is there something I missed?  Or only scum did that so we have slips in play?

We are playing around the idea that scum could have innate roles before item draft. But now I think that's pretty unlikely.

yeah, same

[shraeye]

Didds isn't someone I want to lynch today, probably not ever, partially based on district stuff

Then I also will not lynch Didds today, or probably ever.

[shraeye]

Didds, tell me how much to trust ADK.

[ashersky]

Mods, can you update the game thread title to say Day 2?  It's confusing.

[ashersky]

I have no feelings on Didds, one way or the other.  Cayvie's points made sense, I guess, as a case to be made, but they seem to point out pretty bad scum play, which I generally don't like to assume.

[Jimmmmm]

Weekend check in. I started re-reading pasta but haven't finished yet; will come back with the result.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, tell me how much to trust ADK.

I trust them and I’m not going to vote for them. They disclosed their role to me before I reciprocated. And like they said in 1252, their role has not been modified to account for faction, which I think is helpful information in light of the flips.

I’m trying to keep an open mind and reassess at regular intervals, because I get snowed by people I like (and vice versa) but there are a number of conversations where ADK = Town

[WestCoastDidds]

I have no feelings on Didds, one way or the other.  Cayvie's points made sense, I guess, as a case to be made, but they seem to point out pretty bad scum play, which I generally don't like to assume.

Thanks, Ashersky! I genuinely appreciate the assumption that I am somewhat better than pretty bad. : )

[shraeye]

I have no feelings on Didds, one way or the other.  Cayvie's points made sense, I guess, as a case to be made, but they seem to point out pretty bad scum play, which I generally don't like to assume.

Thanks, Ashersky! I genuinely appreciate the assumption that I am somewhat better than pretty bad. : )

you are, in fact, a sneaky sneaker of a scum.

[cayvie]

got around to rereading scolapasta, and basically everything i said about Didds applies to pasta too. Right down to the "mail-mi or MiX? I vote MiX"

I should be around for some part of tonight. Leaning to Mix over Mail-mi (between those two).

most damning may be this post

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

So... my list is almost opposite of yours!

Preferred lynches: faust, shraeye,, ash, lalight, mail-mi, mix
Neutral-ish: lekkit, glooble, e, adk, raptor
Would rather not lynch:, wcd, EFHW, cayvie, jimmm
Will not lynch: scolapasta

I don't specifically remember what made me put lalight, mail-mi, mix in the first group, so they might be more neutral.

Also interesting to note that my Would rather not lynch is all people I've played codenames with. Hmm....

where he includes mail-mi in the preferred lynches. and yet i believe he votes for and/or makes an argument against every other preferred lynch at some time in day 1, but never a specific one about mail-mi.

290: vote & reasons for shraeye
316: reasons for ash & mentions faust & LL
349: reasons for shraeye & faust
601: vote & reasons for Ashersky
986: vote MiX

yeahhhhhh, he includes mail-mi in his "preferred lynches" but never mentions him again except to say he's voting for someone else instead. thaaat's not a good sign. vote: scolapasta

[scolapasta]

got around to rereading scolapasta, and basically everything i said about Didds applies to pasta too. Right down to the "mail-mi or MiX? I vote MiX"

I should be around for some part of tonight. Leaning to Mix over Mail-mi (between those two).

most damning may be this post

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

So... my list is almost opposite of yours!

Preferred lynches: faust, shraeye,, ash, lalight, mail-mi, mix
Neutral-ish: lekkit, glooble, e, adk, raptor
Would rather not lynch:, wcd, EFHW, cayvie, jimmm
Will not lynch: scolapasta

I don't specifically remember what made me put lalight, mail-mi, mix in the first group, so they might be more neutral.

Also interesting to note that my Would rather not lynch is all people I've played codenames with. Hmm....

where he includes mail-mi in the preferred lynches. and yet i believe he votes for and/or makes an argument against every other preferred lynch at some time in day 1, but never a specific one about mail-mi.

290: vote & reasons for shraeye
316: reasons for ash & mentions faust & LL
349: reasons for shraeye & faust
601: vote & reasons for Ashersky
986: vote MiX

yeahhhhhh, he includes mail-mi in his "preferred lynches" but never mentions him again except to say he's voting for someone else instead. thaaat's not a good sign. vote: scolapasta

SO, every time I defend myself it has so far backfired on me... but I my style of play has always been to try to understand things logically and opine when I see something invalid - which is why I suspected Ash during the ash / faust debate of D1.

I don't see where I "[vote] for and/or [make] an argument against every other preferred lynch".

I did specifically say in my preferred lynches post that I didn't remember why I put lalight, mail-mi, mix in the first group, which is why I didn't mention them much later. Except when it became cllear that my preferred lynch, ash, was going nowhere. So, preferring a lynch over no lynch, I looked at the two that were likely, and made my choice.

I was (possibly) wrong in my mail-mi vs mix assessment. It's still very possible mix is also scum.

[Swowl]

Mods, can you update the game thread title to say Day 2?  It's confusing.

Sure thing.

[EFHW]

The case on Didds is reasonable enough, but I'd still prefer to lynch scolapasta.

Can you provide an overview of the case against scolapasta?  I assume it is reads-based.

Part this, part PoE. I think there would have been mafia who wasn't on the Raptor or mail-mi wagons. Among these people, Jimmmm has pushed mail-mi early on, and you were gunning for both mail-mi and Raptor and were virtually voting for Raptor anyways, in that you would have hammered. I felt that scolapasta didn't react convincingly D1 when shraeye pushed him, he avoided voting for mail-mi and Raptor without ever going out of his way to defend them, which is the spot I expect newb!scum to be in with regrads to their partners.

(Be aware that my post numbers may differ from yours by one)

This sounded interesting, and I did myself as well consider scolapasta as a raptor partner during N1 because I had a similar impression. So I looked into the vca. scolapasta OMGUS voted Shraeye, and then voted ashersky at #602 (4th on wagon with EFHW, Glooble and Lalight) and MiX at #987 (4th on wagon with faust, raptor and EFHW). The time he was on a wagon with mail-mi or raptor was when raptor voted Shraeye with him at #414. (Raptor then voted MiX at #869 and faust at #1059.) mail-mi and raptor never voted for him.

I was about to go look up what he said at eod, but I see cayvie just did.

I'm good with vote: scolapasta, but I'll keep looking for trends in the votes as well.

[WestCoastDidds]

I have no feelings on Didds, one way or the other.  Cayvie's points made sense, I guess, as a case to be made, but they seem to point out pretty bad scum play, which I generally don't like to assume.

Thanks, Ashersky! I genuinely appreciate the assumption that I am somewhat better than pretty bad. : )

you are, in fact, a sneaky sneaker of a scum.

#goals

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m down for vote: Scola

The D1 pass has expired, so now the scummy stuff from then is more actionable

[WestCoastDidds]

I think that put him at 5 (L-3)

[MiX]

I’m down for vote: Scola

The D1 pass has expired, so now the scummy stuff from then is more actionable

Checking in to say that I would also vote for scola.

I need to reread, setup my VCA and get conclusions before voting, however.

[scolapasta]

Sigh. It's interesting to me that my first game aspect has only been used to cite things to my detriment, i.e my not voting for either raptor or mail-mi is just because I haven't played any games with you to have a good ability to read. Especially D1, when there's so little to go, except making arguments based on strategy.

I get that I don't get a pass anymore for D1 newbie status, but I think it's still fair to consider that I am new enough to not be able to decide / assert things based on past game personalities.

I think I'm one of the few that argued strongly for not revealing either round claim or # claim, which I still think was a very bad idea as town. It seems reasonable to think that there was no scum nk on N1 because they, knowing she was #1, tried to kill WDD, but someone else saved them. Or who knows, maybe she's the poisoned one and is already dying.

I'm not going to claim my item or role just yet, but I will say it's a role that I think would've been better for scum to have and that I'm not sure how to use effectively.

[scolapasta]

Actually, now that I think about it, that last sentence is probably an argument for sacrificing me over someone who has a role they know how to use better. Double sigh.

[Lekkit]

scolapasta, out of ADK, Shraeye, Jimmm and Ashersky, who would you prefer to lynch today?

[scolapasta]

scolapasta, out of ADK, Shraeye, Jimmm and Ashersky, who would you prefer to lynch today?

Hmm, good question. I still don't follow why Shraeye came out against me D1, but I'm no longer as convinced that that's a reason to OMGUS. I actually have a new theory (that I'm not quite ready to share) that leads me to think they might be town.

I still like ash, because I still think his faust misunderstanding felt deliberate and I was not on board for his reveal plan.

I don't have much of any read on Jimmmm and ADK. Let me go review their posts and see if I come up with anything.

[ashersky]

Sigh. It's interesting to me that my first game aspect has only been used to cite things to my detriment, i.e my not voting for either raptor or mail-mi is just because I haven't played any games with you to have a good ability to read. Especially D1, when there's so little to go, except making arguments based on strategy.

I get that I don't get a pass anymore for D1 newbie status, but I think it's still fair to consider that I am new enough to not be able to decide / assert things based on past game personalities.

I think I'm one of the few that argued strongly for not revealing either round claim or # claim, which I still think was a very bad idea as town. It seems reasonable to think that there was no scum nk on N1 because they, knowing she was #1, tried to kill WDD, but someone else saved them. Or who knows, maybe she's the poisoned one and is already dying.

I'm not going to claim my item or role just yet, but I will say it's a role that I think would've been better for scum to have and that I'm not sure how to use effectively.

I feel you on being the newbie and feeling like there is constant pressure/attention on you.  It's normal.

My advice is to acknowledge this is just part of the game -- we don't know you just as much as you don't know us.  Flipping you is necessary in developing that meta-read on you that will help us in future games.  So, you know, it's all part of your growth as an f.ds mafioso!

All that is to say, sorry in advance when you are lynched.

(It's also why you won't be NK'ed -- you are either scum or scum won't waste a shot on a newbie that will be lynched for being too new to read.)

[scolapasta]

A little more on shraeye:

I don't follow this:

"But I CAN promise that scum won't kill #1."

"Because based on what I was thinking, #1 would very most likely be mafia.  So A) mafia don't kill themselves and B) we were going to lynch #1.  Hard to be the NK when you're already out."

The first is very definitive. And I really don't see how any D1 read (that #1 would most likely be mafia) can be so certain.

Again, that may just be style. Since they were also sure in the way they asserted I was scum.

This, of course, goes against my aforementioned theory, so :shrug:

[scolapasta]

Sigh. It's interesting to me that my first game aspect has only been used to cite things to my detriment, i.e my not voting for either raptor or mail-mi is just because I haven't played any games with you to have a good ability to read. Especially D1, when there's so little to go, except making arguments based on strategy.

I get that I don't get a pass anymore for D1 newbie status, but I think it's still fair to consider that I am new enough to not be able to decide / assert things based on past game personalities.

I think I'm one of the few that argued strongly for not revealing either round claim or # claim, which I still think was a very bad idea as town. It seems reasonable to think that there was no scum nk on N1 because they, knowing she was #1, tried to kill WDD, but someone else saved them. Or who knows, maybe she's the poisoned one and is already dying.

I'm not going to claim my item or role just yet, but I will say it's a role that I think would've been better for scum to have and that I'm not sure how to use effectively.

I feel you on being the newbie and feeling like there is constant pressure/attention on you.  It's normal.

My advice is to acknowledge this is just part of the game -- we don't know you just as much as you don't know us.  Flipping you is necessary in developing that meta-read on you that will help us in future games.  So, you know, it's all part of your growth as an f.ds mafioso!

All that is to say, sorry in advance when you are lynched.

(It's also why you won't be NK'ed -- you are either scum or scum won't waste a shot on a newbie that will be lynched for being too new to read.)

Yeah, sure. My point wasn't so much the attention - I get that. Just that it seems to be used mostly to justify that I could be scum, rather than either way.

i.e. I do think it's a fair argument to make that I didn't choose to lynch either raptor or mail-mil because I am scumm, didn't want to vote for my own team, and am too new to realize that's a newbie mistake*, BUT I think the equal and opposite argument is that because I'm new I am not reading the same type of things you guys are and that nothing they did seemed more scummy that the people i did vote for.

* I will also point out, while new to thus group, and these more complex rules, I'm not entirely new to the game. i.e. I've played enough to know that if you are scum, you should accuse your fellow scum some times.

Re: the NK part, I get that - it's actually related to my theory.

[scolapasta]

One thing I noticed rereading Jimmmm (I never know how many m's!) is that he pointed out mail-mi's possible "scumslip". Now I don't know how real these slips are, but it does seem to me that he wouldn't point this out if he were on the same team, especially since it could be seen as a mistake.

Of course he could still be on a 2nd scum team, but that has me leaning town for him. Now to ADK.

[scolapasta]

Lean town on ADK.

Question for the group:
There were several post from members about their thoughts on whether scum has chat / when. Obviously scum would know whether the did.

So do we think scum would a) stay silent on this topic, b) try to sound honest in saying something like "I was under the impression that...", or c) could be either so NAI?

I don't have an answer myself, maybe lean b, but probably c.

[MiX]

One thing I noticed rereading Jimmmm (I never know how many m's!) is that he pointed out mail-mi's possible "scumslip". Now I don't know how real these slips are, but it does seem to me that he wouldn't point this out if he were on the same team, especially since it could be seen as a mistake.

Of course he could still be on a 2nd scum team, but that has me leaning town for him. Now to ADK.

5 m's. He would most definitely point out the scumslip before anyone else could if they were buddies. What else about Jimmmmm pinged you?

[scolapasta]

One thing I noticed rereading Jimmmm (I never know how many m's!) is that he pointed out mail-mi's possible "scumslip". Now I don't know how real these slips are, but it does seem to me that he wouldn't point this out if he were on the same team, especially since it could be seen as a mistake.

Of course he could still be on a 2nd scum team, but that has me leaning town for him. Now to ADK.

5 m's. He would most definitely point out the scumslip before anyone else could if they were buddies. What else about Jimmmmm pinged you?

Why most definitely?

On Jimmmmm, mostly that I agreed with his logic, I guess. i.e. nothing jumped out at me as his doing anything different than he (as a generic player) would do if they weren't town. Which I know to some that is suspicious, but then you're in princess bride territory.

[Glooble]

Lean town on ADK.

Question for the group:
There were several post from members about their thoughts on whether scum has chat / when. Obviously scum would know whether the did.

So do we think scum would a) stay silent on this topic, b) try to sound honest in saying something like "I was under the impression that...", or c) could be either so NAI?

I don't have an answer myself, maybe lean b, but probably c.

That just completely depends on the player. I personally would probably pretend to speculate, maybe come down on the opposite of the truth if I could find good justification to do so.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.3:

scolapasta (5): faust, ADK, Cayvie, EFHW, WCD
WestCoastDidds (1): LaLight

Not Voting (8): Glooble, MiX, E!, Jimmm, Ashersky, scolapasta, Lekkit, Shraeye


With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time.

[WestCoastDidds]

Scola-

I appreciate that you are doing good work to try to piece together a scum narrative. I also echo Ashersky’s comment that it’s just hard to be new because you are unknown, but the good news is that really only lasts for a couple of games. It’s a small community so you can get up to speed quickly, if you’d like. I hope that you’ll keep playing with us....I swear it gets less frustrating!

[MiX]

Scola-

I appreciate that you are doing good work to try to piece together a scum narrative. I also echo Ashersky’s comment that it’s just hard to be new because you are unknown, but the good news is that really only lasts for a couple of games. It’s a small community so you can get up to speed quickly, if you’d like. I hope that you’ll keep playing with us....I swear it gets less frustrating!

Can confirm, every extra game here is another nail in my coffin...I mean uh it gets better and better!

Why are we treating scola as the obvious lynch here? Or are we just being friendly for the sake of it...

scolapasta, out of ADK, Shraeye, Jimmm and Ashersky, who would you prefer to lynch today?

Why these specific individuals?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not assuming he’s the lynch, just that I remember how frustrating this part was for me. And I really liked the way Ashersky phrases it.

But he’s doing heavy lifting in a way that some others haven’t.

Like, oh, hai! Glooble! How ya now? What do you think of Scola?

[ashersky]

I think my lynch pool is something like:

faust >>>>> Glooble/MiX/Jimmmmm/scola/Lekkit >>> WCD/EFHW/ADK/Cayvie/LaLight/2.7/shraeye

The order of names in the / groups are just as I read them from the vote count.  So three pools is the way to see it.  Want to lynch, good to lynch, not so good to lynch.

[faust]

I think my lynch pool is something like:

faust >>>>> Glooble/MiX/Jimmmmm/scola/Lekkit >>> WCD/EFHW/ADK/Cayvie/LaLight/2.7/shraeye

The order of names in the / groups are just as I read them from the vote count.  So three pools is the way to see it.  Want to lynch, good to lynch, not so good to lynch.

Of course it is.

Not that it will mean much coming from me, but I think it'd be worth putting in some work to figure out more of an order among your "good to lynch" pool. I mean, D1 you produced a complete chum-to-scum, this seems like a step back.

[faust]

scolapasta, out of ADK, Shraeye, Jimmm and Ashersky, who would you prefer to lynch today?

Back at you, mate. I know this is getting old, but I'm still waiting for you to share your scumreads.

[ashersky]

I think my lynch pool is something like:

faust >>>>> Glooble/MiX/Jimmmmm/scola/Lekkit >>> WCD/EFHW/ADK/Cayvie/LaLight/2.7/shraeye

The order of names in the / groups are just as I read them from the vote count.  So three pools is the way to see it.  Want to lynch, good to lynch, not so good to lynch.

Of course it is.

Not that it will mean much coming from me, but I think it'd be worth putting in some work to figure out more of an order among your "good to lynch" pool. I mean, D1 you produced a complete chum-to-scum, this seems like a step back.

It was actually less work to just list everyone in order, since my opinions were not formed as much as now.  I agree that there is value to what you suggest.

Glooble and Lekkit are in there for not being very active (in my recollection).
scola is there based on having a high vote count and my aforementioned newbie problem.
MiX is there because MiX.
Jimmmmm is there because...well, he's probably my strong scum read of the group, but it's hard to verbalize.  He's got the sclurk going, with the sort of leading posts that let others do the work for him.  Town!Jimmmmm is generally forceful and useful and insightful -- this Jimmmmm has not been. 

So faust >>>>> Jimmmmm > MiX > scola >> Lekkit > Glooble

[ashersky]

What will it take to get people to join the faust party?

I mean, is he immune to all but guilty results?  Do I need to produce one of those for you?

[faust]

What will it take to get people to join the faust party?

I mean, is he immune to all but guilty results?  Do I need to produce one of those for you?

Maybe it's not that I am immune to being scumread - because I am definitely not - but rather that you are not very convincing.

Also, I for one am glad that people don't seem interested in third party hunting when we have 2 mafia flips.

[ashersky]

What will it take to get people to join the faust party?

I mean, is he immune to all but guilty results?  Do I need to produce one of those for you?

Maybe it's not that I am immune to being scumread - because I am definitely not - but rather that you are not very convincing.

Also, I for one am glad that people don't seem interested in third party hunting when we have 2 mafia flips.

Why couldn't you be mafia?  I haven't argued that you aren't.

[ashersky]

I'll start a case, then.

Faust's first few posts:

Vote: lekkit

I’m mildly townreading faust based on our QT, but he’s a player I’ve been wrong about a lot of times.

Our District is Masonry - I mean, what more do you need to determine my alignment?

I can’t believe that I am the aggregate scummiest player out of this sixteen (or any sixteen).  I haven’t even played in months.

Boo.

Obligatory vote: faust to see if he’s town or scum.

Lynching me will accomplish that, yes.

1) what's scummy about that question?
2) I'm mildly townreading didds at this point

1) it's weaksauce! it sounds like "which townies who are neighbors with my scumbuddies do we need to worry about, and which ones are we foolin'?"
2) neat

Meh. The scums in those QTs will be able to tell themselves whether they are suspected most of the time. I don't believe they need ADK to ask this question for them.

Also cayvie's town.

These four are the first of the game for faust, and come in rapid succession.  They consist of exactly one useful statement, where he calls out ADK's question.  Note, faust specifically speaks to scum's thought process and abilities here.

There is also zero content created by faust -- only responses.

[ashersky]

Onward:

self-isolation started 2 days ago so i may be more active than usual (unless I am watching od the series I fell behind on)

This is going to be the most active game in a long time, that's for sure.

This game felt like it took forever to get here.

Indeed it did, and I'm not even sure what for. The whole drafting was for a bunch of things that we didn't know what they did and everyone ended up getting one anyway.

Two more throwaway posts with zero game value.  Nothing here to suggest a town!faust appearance.  There is a NAI mod gripe, but I don't see how that helped, EXCEPT to get people thinking/talking about what the items may be.

Why would he do that?  Role fishing, of course.  By generating conversation on the items themselves, he promotes an environment where information about what those items are could be revealed.  This is a scum move.

[ashersky]

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

There is something in between full claiming and no claiming that we can do in this setting, and that's for each of us to claim to our district partner. That creates accountability because scum has to choose what they want to claim. It might even allow some investigative roles to hide behind their District partners so as to not get killed.

Of course it will inevitably reveal some information to scum.

Shortly thereafter, we get some meatier seeming posts.  The first is just a question -- so not so meaty.

The second is to push for a district full claim.  There are varied reasons for this, from supposedly limiting scum lies to hiding good powers.  The latter may work (LL and I schemed a bit like that), but I doubt the first.  Scum can lie in the QT; scum can call their QT mate a liar; there are just so many ways to exploit this.

Classic case of presenting something as pro-town that actually isn't.  It's okay to do that if you are thinking things through, but this post presents it as ipso facto (did I use that correctly?).

[ashersky]

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

Accountability, mostly. Locks scum into a few fakeclaims instead of all of them. Probably a bad idea to do so publically now that I think about it...

How do you think scum could feasibly claim an item that they didn't get?

More questions, no content.

[ashersky]

And now something interesting.

My own original thoughts: faust's scummy for thinking cayvie's town, Lekkit is a great human being but why should I share my read on them specifically? And I think claiming to your district bud the item (but not the PR that comes with it) is good now. A fullclaim should come D2, I believe.

Yes, people who disagree with you are always the scumsters.

What does an item (but not PR) claim accomplish in your opinion?

Accountability, mostly. Locks scum into a few fakeclaims instead of all of them. Probably a bad idea to do so publically now that I think about it...

How do you think scum could feasibly claim an item that they didn't get?

For example, an item their scumpartner got. Or they know what hasn't been picked, I don't know.

So if one scum flips we know who the other is? That's a risk I'm willing to take.

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

Hold on... I just kinda figured the number of items equals the number of players, apparently not. Well, there's a point to this then. If scum knows what hasn't been picked for some reason.

This is a huge oversight.  I mean, HUGE.  Apparently the number of items doesn't match the number of players?  You supposedly only realize this now, at 9:44 a.m. on March 18?  After participating in a draft of items that is listed in the game thread?  This comes directly after he makes the statement that scum can't feasibly claim something no one has...

This really reads like a huge lightbulb moment for scum realizing they have more options than they realized.  The issue I have with that is that faust should have realized it much sooner, so the lightbulb moment doesn't fit.  If it doesn't fit, it stands to reason that it's a lie/act.  Who does that?  Scum.

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

(And no, there is no conceivable way that someone of faust's own self-declared and independently-verified intelligence misses this fairly simple math.)

[ashersky]

I suppose cayvie's town.

Unvote

I am now town as well for agreeing with you?

Useless question.

I'm inclined to side with cayvie on this one.

Unsubstantiated buddying.

Vote: MiX

Unsupported vote.

I don't think we should PR claim right off the bat, when has that ever worked out for us?

When has it ever not worked for us?

Facetious question.

I'm willing to round claim. Unwilling to role claim.

I don't want to round claim. I'm edgy.

Empty joke to cover up not wanting to claim (or explain why not).

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

For those who know the setup, what could scum be?

We're all Serial Killers.

Another throwaway joke post.

[ashersky]

All of that gets us to the first vote count of the day.  I'll need to let off here and come back to this.

But for anyone carrying the town!faust torch -- where's the towniness?  There's some true scum moves and a bunch of nothing to hide it in the first part of his Day 1 play.

(Realize that until there are enough players caring about the possibility of a scum!faust, there is no motivation for faust or his disciples to work at all in defense, or in providing utility in response.  That's the unfortunate biproduct of just accepting the default towniness of certain players -- they can just lead the town to ruin.)

[faust]

Well, ashersky has determined that my playstyle is asking lots of questions an making some jokes. I thought that was pretty well established at this point.

Maybe this whole thing is a byproduct of ash not playing that much recently and having old meta of me? I think I used to do more of what ash calls "meaty" posts.

[faust]

This really reads like a huge lightbulb moment for scum realizing they have more options than they realized.  The issue I have with that is that faust should have realized it much sooner, so the lightbulb moment doesn't fit.  If it doesn't fit, it stands to reason that it's a lie/act.  Who does that?  Scum.

Look, a paragraph showcasing confirmation bias. "This really reads like faust is scum for reason X. Expect ... it doesn't quite work. So I guess faust is scum for reason Y!" The read comes before the reason for it.

[faust]

What will it take to get people to join the faust party?

I mean, is he immune to all but guilty results?  Do I need to produce one of those for you?

Maybe it's not that I am immune to being scumread - because I am definitely not - but rather that you are not very convincing.

Also, I for one am glad that people don't seem interested in third party hunting when we have 2 mafia flips.

Why couldn't you be mafia?  I haven't argued that you aren't.

I thought you suggested earlier that I am scum because I supposedly thought mail-mi was town. That belief seems difficult to hold when I was actually his partner.

[MiX]

What will it take to get people to join the faust party?

I mean, is he immune to all but guilty results?  Do I need to produce one of those for you?

If you have it, yes...you did call for people to reveal guilty results, so I'm gonna assume you don't have any.

I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to claim. Mass claims early in RMM tends to very much favor scum if it's this early.

You make this seem like a factual statement; do you have any data to back it up?

There is something in between full claiming and no claiming that we can do in this setting, and that's for each of us to claim to our district partner. That creates accountability because scum has to choose what they want to claim. It might even allow some investigative roles to hide behind their District partners so as to not get killed.

Of course it will inevitably reveal some information to scum.

Shortly thereafter, we get some meatier seeming posts.  The first is just a question -- so not so meaty.

The second is to push for a district full claim.  There are varied reasons for this, from supposedly limiting scum lies to hiding good powers.  The latter may work (LL and I schemed a bit like that), but I doubt the first.  Scum can lie in the QT; scum can call their QT mate a liar; there are just so many ways to exploit this.

Classic case of presenting something as pro-town that actually isn't.  It's okay to do that if you are thinking things through, but this post presents it as ipso facto (did I use that correctly?).

I don't see it, isn't claiming to your neighbor good? Do you think it isn't?

And now something interesting.

So if one scum flips we know who the other is? That's a risk I'm willing to take.

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

And everything has been picked, there are no leftovers.

Hold on... I just kinda figured the number of items equals the number of players, apparently not. Well, there's a point to this then. If scum knows what hasn't been picked for some reason.

This is a huge oversight.  I mean, HUGE.  Apparently the number of items doesn't match the number of players?  You supposedly only realize this now, at 9:44 a.m. on March 18?  After participating in a draft of items that is listed in the game thread?  This comes directly after he makes the statement that scum can't feasibly claim something no one has...

This really reads like a huge lightbulb moment for scum realizing they have more options than they realized.  The issue I have with that is that faust should have realized it much sooner, so the lightbulb moment doesn't fit.  If it doesn't fit, it stands to reason that it's a lie/act.  Who does that?  Scum.

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

(And no, there is no conceivable way that someone of faust's own self-declared and independently-verified intelligence misses this fairly simple math.)

You only made this argument now, at (current time) in (current day)? After scumreading faust all of yesterday you only mention this now? Did you not even reread faust? If it's this huge why didn't you point it out earlier? Could it be that you are human and thus either didn't have time to reread specifically faust or you didn't see this with the importance that you did right now? I'll like to point out that as a second rounder I had a reason to count the item list multiple times and I failed to do so, why can't faust do the same?

And do you think it's a genuine lightbulb moment, or a faked one? Because you say both there, and honestly you can read it as both.

Well, ashersky has determined that my playstyle is asking lots of questions an making some jokes. I thought that was pretty well established at this point.

Maybe this whole thing is a byproduct of ash not playing that much recently and having old meta of me? I think I used to do more of what ash calls "meaty" posts.

Your meaty posts are also townier, but honestly I can't remember how many of them you make nowadays.

Something struck me in the post history ash quoted: why did you vote me when you did? I presumed it was about round claiming, but why me specifically?

[faust]

Something struck me in the post history ash quoted: why did you vote me when you did? I presumed it was about round claiming, but why me specifically?

I don't completely recall, but I think it was you just supporting the round claim stuff without much questioning plus your early push for cayvie.

[ashersky]

This really reads like a huge lightbulb moment for scum realizing they have more options than they realized.  The issue I have with that is that faust should have realized it much sooner, so the lightbulb moment doesn't fit.  If it doesn't fit, it stands to reason that it's a lie/act.  Who does that?  Scum.

Look, a paragraph showcasing confirmation bias. "This really reads like faust is scum for reason X. Expect ... it doesn't quite work. So I guess faust is scum for reason Y!" The read comes before the reason for it.

Obviously so.  I even stated as much.

I am going back to find things to show that you are scummy.  You said I haven't been convincing, so I'm trying to find things that might convince others.  I'm already convinced.  It isn't my job to convince myself you are town.  That's your job.

[ashersky]

@MiX

Never assume.

Claiming to your neighbor is good for the scum in your neighborhood.

I made multiple arguments in real time, but no one wanted to listen.  I'm re-pointing things out, as well as catching even more.  I think it is a faked lightbulb moment from faust, because faust is too good to not have already had the lightbulb moment N0 in the scum QT.  For a bad scum player, it could be a genuine lightbulb moment.  So yes, I say both, as I just explained.

[ashersky]

I'm in a tough spot, right?  I know faust is scum, but no one will trust me enough to follow through.  I can expend lots of energy trying to convince people, but it doesn't seem to have an effect.

So I can lurk, do something insane, or just wait it out.

You can all count on me for a hammer.  Not sure I have much else to contribute, I guess.

[MiX]

Vote: faust

[faust]

A more persuasive argument could have been made that I didn't much care for lynching either mail-mi or Raptor for most of D1, but for some reason ashersky seems hellbent on analysing this game while ignoring two scum flips.

[ashersky]

A more persuasive argument could have been made that I didn't much care for lynching either mail-mi or Raptor for most of D1, but for some reason ashersky seems hellbent on analysing this game while ignoring two scum flips.

I don’t find that to be alignment-indicative of veterans, so I don’t count that against you.

[faust]

Claiming to your neighbor is good for the scum in your neighborhood.

This is wrong, and plus if I was partnered with Raptor/mail-mi it would have actively been bad for my team because it would have gotten basically no extra info out of this.

[ashersky]

Claiming to your neighbor is good for the scum in your neighborhood.

This is wrong, and plus if I was partnered with Raptor/mail-mi it would have actively been bad for my team because it would have gotten basically no extra info out of this.

What?  I just meant in a town/scum neighborhood, claiming there benefits scum.

[ashersky]

Unrelated — does anyone regularly play from an iPhone?  Any protips?   Pinch to zoom doesn’t even work for me.  Maybe it’s my browser.

[faust]

Claiming to your neighbor is good for the scum in your neighborhood.

This is wrong, and plus if I was partnered with Raptor/mail-mi it would have actively been bad for my team because it would have gotten basically no extra info out of this.

What?  I just meant in a town/scum neighborhood, claiming there benefits scum.

Yeah, but if I was their partner, I would have known that there aren't a lot of such neighborhoods. Also Glooble had already claimed to me when I made that post, so no extra info on that front either. So what active benefit for my team was I seeking?

[ashersky]

I will admit that my single minded focus on faust is rendering me useless otherwise. 

I might be town’s best lynch to both remove the distraction and see my flip.

[faust]

I will admit that my single minded focus on faust is rendering me useless otherwise. 

I might be town’s best lynch to both remove the distraction and see my flip.

Or you could try being productive.

[ashersky]

Claiming to your neighbor is good for the scum in your neighborhood.

This is wrong, and plus if I was partnered with Raptor/mail-mi it would have actively been bad for my team because it would have gotten basically no extra info out of this.

What?  I just meant in a town/scum neighborhood, claiming there benefits scum.

Yeah, but if I was their partner, I would have known that there aren't a lot of such neighborhoods. Also Glooble had already claimed to me when I made that post, so no extra info on that front either. So what active benefit for my team was I seeking?

Got it.  I’ve been one of the few staying on the multiple factions tip.  So there is that. 

If your defense against my argument that your call for QT claiming was scummy is that you already knew two of your partners shared a QT, you are doing it wrong.

[ashersky]

I will admit that my single minded focus on faust is rendering me useless otherwise. 

I might be town’s best lynch to both remove the distraction and see my flip.

Or you could try being productive.

I am.  And my lynch could be the most productive.  We already got two scum, losing a townie isn’t that bad.

[ashersky]

I’m out for the night soon, so I’ll make it clear.

If we want to lynch me, take me to L-1.  I will claim and hammer to prove myself honest. 

[faust]

I will admit that my single minded focus on faust is rendering me useless otherwise. 

I might be town’s best lynch to both remove the distraction and see my flip.

Or you could try being productive.

I am.  And my lynch could be the most productive.  We already got two scum, losing a townie isn’t that bad.

And how would your lynch be productive? If you believe that a majority of town would agree to lynch you because of your obsession with me, just to turn around and conclude that you were right all along once they see your flip, then you're living in a fantasy world.

[MiX]

Claiming to your neighbor is good for the scum in your neighborhood.

This is wrong, and plus if I was partnered with Raptor/mail-mi it would have actively been bad for my team because it would have gotten basically no extra info out of this.

What?  I just meant in a town/scum neighborhood, claiming there benefits scum.

Yeah, but if I was their partner, I would have known that there aren't a lot of such neighborhoods. Also Glooble had already claimed to me when I made that post, so no extra info on that front either. So what active benefit for my team was I seeking?

Got it.  I’ve been one of the few staying on the multiple factions tip.  So there is that. 

If your defense against my argument that your call for QT claiming was scummy is that you already knew two of your partners shared a QT, you are doing it wrong.

I don't see the problem with the defense?

I’m out for the night soon, so I’ll make it clear.

If we want to lynch me, take me to L-1.  I will claim and hammer to prove myself honest. 

No one was going to lynch you before you said this. This is kinda scummy, but also incredibly risky as scum, so I don't know what to take of it.

[faust]

No one was going to lynch you before you said this. This is kinda scummy, but also incredibly risky as scum, so I don't know what to take of it.

It's ashersky being ashersky. Wouldn't be a normal game if he didn't call for his own lynch at least once.

[MiX]

No one was going to lynch you before you said this. This is kinda scummy, but also incredibly risky as scum, so I don't know what to take of it.

It's ashersky being ashersky. Wouldn't be a normal game if he didn't call for his own lynch at least once.

That's true.

[cayvie]

No one was going to lynch you before you said this. This is kinda scummy, but also incredibly risky as scum, so I don't know what to take of it.

It's ashersky being ashersky. Wouldn't be a normal game if he didn't call for his own lynch at least once.

man with this crap happening again, i'm half inclined to believe that this is an ash/faust scumplan.

and in reference to mix's quoted post, isn't now the time for scum to take incredible risks? they're losing.

[2.71828.....]

Well, we had a nice fun faust/Ash debate on D1 and ended up lynching scum and another died at night, so I guess.... Keep it up?

[LaLight]

i will reply a bit more a bit later (like 4-5 hours), but i want to vote: faust

[Swowl]

*BOOM*
a cracking static follows the sound of a cannon going off... the Tributes all look to the sky for a message of some kind...


ATTENTION TRIBUTES!

After much deliberation amongst the Sponsors -  Tribute LaLight has been chosen today to receive a special gift!

This is the only message. May the odds be ever in your favor!

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, how exciting!!

(I'm stuck in my house, cheap thrills, ya'll, cheap thrills)

[faust]

What's that, we're now giving out rewards for voting for me? I do not approve.

[scolapasta]

So what do we think triggered this?

Related to LaLight's item?
Related to the nth vote on Day 2?
Related to someone else's item?
Other ideas?

[shraeye]

Sigh. It's interesting to me that my first game aspect has only been used to cite things to my detriment, i.e my not voting for either raptor or mail-mi is just because I haven't played any games with you to have a good ability to read. Especially D1, when there's so little to go, except making arguments based on strategy.

How SHOULD we cite your first-game aspect?

I think I'm one of the few that argued strongly for not revealing either round claim or # claim, which I still think was a very bad idea as town. It seems reasonable to think that there was no scum nk on N1 because they, knowing she was #1, tried to kill WDD, but someone else saved them. Or who knows, maybe she's the poisoned one and is already dying.

"Claiming numbers is very bad for town...it's the only thing that save Didds who was the scum kill".
I don't see how you expect me to understand what you mean

[shraeye]

One thing I noticed rereading Jimmmm (I never know how many m's!) is that he pointed out mail-mi's possible "scumslip". Now I don't know how real these slips are, but it does seem to me that he wouldn't point this out if he were on the same team, especially since it could be seen as a mistake.

Of course he could still be on a 2nd scum team, but that has me leaning town for him. Now to ADK.

5 m's. He would most definitely point out the scumslip before anyone else could if they were buddies. What else about Jimmmmm pinged you?

So Jimmm is mafia, MiX?

[MiX]

One thing I noticed rereading Jimmmm (I never know how many m's!) is that he pointed out mail-mi's possible "scumslip". Now I don't know how real these slips are, but it does seem to me that he wouldn't point this out if he were on the same team, especially since it could be seen as a mistake.

Of course he could still be on a 2nd scum team, but that has me leaning town for him. Now to ADK.

5 m's. He would most definitely point out the scumslip before anyone else could if they were buddies. What else about Jimmmmm pinged you?

So Jimmm is mafia, MiX?

How am I supposed to know?

[shraeye]

What will it take to get people to join the faust party?

I mean, is he immune to all but guilty results?  Do I need to produce one of those for you?

I get on faust when I get on faust.

But it feels like you've been glued to him because...you disagreed about probability?  Because you chose to and won't back down? 

All I know is that if faust flips scum, I am insta-lynching you.

[cayvie]

So what do we think triggered this?

Related to LaLight's item?
Related to the nth vote on Day 2?
Related to someone else's item?
Other ideas?

i vote option C, someone else's item

[shraeye]

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

No, it's not.  Also, building post after post analysis of "faust could have said more here" falls 100% into the "utterly unconvincing realm".


I suppose we could lynch you, and I promise to be VERY interested in this faust case if you're scum.

[cayvie]

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

No, it's not.  Also, building post after post analysis of "faust could have said more here" falls 100% into the "utterly unconvincing realm".


I suppose we could lynch you, and I promise to be VERY interested in this faust case if you're scum.

i'm down. vote: Ashersky.

man i'm jelly of LaLight and this gift now. i hope it's a dayvig shot.

[shraeye]

One thing I noticed rereading Jimmmm (I never know how many m's!) is that he pointed out mail-mi's possible "scumslip". Now I don't know how real these slips are, but it does seem to me that he wouldn't point this out if he were on the same team, especially since it could be seen as a mistake.

Of course he could still be on a 2nd scum team, but that has me leaning town for him. Now to ADK.

5 m's. He would most definitely point out the scumslip before anyone else could if they were buddies. What else about Jimmmmm pinged you?

So Jimmm is mafia, MiX?

How am I supposed to know?

Nice, clever dodge.  But seriously, do you think Jimmm is scum?

[Glooble]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

[scolapasta]

Sigh. It's interesting to me that my first game aspect has only been used to cite things to my detriment, i.e my not voting for either raptor or mail-mi is just because I haven't played any games with you to have a good ability to read. Especially D1, when there's so little to go, except making arguments based on strategy.

How SHOULD we cite your first-game aspect?

um, like I said right there - reread the i.e.

I think I'm one of the few that argued strongly for not revealing either round claim or # claim, which I still think was a very bad idea as town. It seems reasonable to think that there was no scum nk on N1 because they, knowing she was #1, tried to kill WDD, but someone else saved them. Or who knows, maybe she's the poisoned one and is already dying.

"Claiming numbers is very bad for town...it's the only thing that save Didds who was the scum kill".
I don't see how you expect me to understand what you mean

There was no way (unless you have are town and have a saving role) to:
• know that anyone had a saving role - since we don't know for certain what item are (though, of course, we can make strong assumptions on some)
• know that if the items did exist, they were picked by town
• that the saving role person would try to save Didds

So, by claiming draft #, Didds just made herself a target

The fact that she wasn't killed N1 doesn't after the fact mean the idea to claim was a good idea.

And like I said, while she survived the NK, she might still be poisoned and not even know it.

[scolapasta]

Whoops, this sentence mistakenly ended in the quoted part, instead of as a new thing I said:

"um, like I said right there - reread the i.e."

[MiX]

One thing I noticed rereading Jimmmm (I never know how many m's!) is that he pointed out mail-mi's possible "scumslip". Now I don't know how real these slips are, but it does seem to me that he wouldn't point this out if he were on the same team, especially since it could be seen as a mistake.

Of course he could still be on a 2nd scum team, but that has me leaning town for him. Now to ADK.

5 m's. He would most definitely point out the scumslip before anyone else could if they were buddies. What else about Jimmmmm pinged you?

So Jimmm is mafia, MiX?

How am I supposed to know?

Nice, clever dodge.  But seriously, do you think Jimmm is scum?

Not really, but I haven't reread yet.

[shraeye]

There was no way (unless you have are town and have a saving role) to:
• know that anyone had a saving role - since we don't know for certain what item are (though, of course, we can make strong assumptions on some)
• know that if the items did exist, they were picked by town
• that the saving role person would try to save Didds

What are you saying?  Because it sounds like you're saying something at me.

[shraeye]

Not really, but I haven't reread yet.

So were you saying that, in general, a scumbuddie would point this out quick so nobody else does?  Or, Jimmmmm in particular would do this if Jimmmmm were scum?

[MiX]

Not really, but I haven't reread yet.

So were you saying that, in general, a scumbuddie would point this out quick so nobody else does?  Or, Jimmmmm in particular would do this if Jimmmmm were scum?

The first one.

Sigh. It's interesting to me that my first game aspect has only been used to cite things to my detriment, i.e my not voting for either raptor or mail-mi is just because I haven't played any games with you to have a good ability to read. Especially D1, when there's so little to go, except making arguments based on strategy.

How SHOULD we cite your first-game aspect?

um, like I said right there - reread the i.e.

I think I'm one of the few that argued strongly for not revealing either round claim or # claim, which I still think was a very bad idea as town. It seems reasonable to think that there was no scum nk on N1 because they, knowing she was #1, tried to kill WDD, but someone else saved them. Or who knows, maybe she's the poisoned one and is already dying.

"Claiming numbers is very bad for town...it's the only thing that save Didds who was the scum kill".
I don't see how you expect me to understand what you mean

There was no way (unless you have are town and have a saving role) to:
• know that anyone had a saving role - since we don't know for certain what item are (though, of course, we can make strong assumptions on some)
• know that if the items did exist, they were picked by town
• that the saving role person would try to save Didds

So, by claiming draft #, Didds just made herself a target

The fact that she wasn't killed N1 doesn't after the fact mean the idea to claim was a good idea.

And like I said, while she survived the NK, she might still be poisoned and not even know it.

What I don't understand is how you think a doctor saved Didds and then also think it was a bad idea for people to draft order claim. I mean, didn't we get the best case scenario out of the claim? Or are you saying that despite it working out that it still was a bad play, because right now I'm seeing no negative consequences out of it.

[scolapasta]

Not really, but I haven't reread yet.

So were you saying that, in general, a scumbuddie would point this out quick so nobody else does?  Or, Jimmmmm in particular would do this if Jimmmmm were scum?

The first one.

Sigh. It's interesting to me that my first game aspect has only been used to cite things to my detriment, i.e my not voting for either raptor or mail-mi is just because I haven't played any games with you to have a good ability to read. Especially D1, when there's so little to go, except making arguments based on strategy.

How SHOULD we cite your first-game aspect?

um, like I said right there - reread the i.e.

I think I'm one of the few that argued strongly for not revealing either round claim or # claim, which I still think was a very bad idea as town. It seems reasonable to think that there was no scum nk on N1 because they, knowing she was #1, tried to kill WDD, but someone else saved them. Or who knows, maybe she's the poisoned one and is already dying.

"Claiming numbers is very bad for town...it's the only thing that save Didds who was the scum kill".
I don't see how you expect me to understand what you mean

There was no way (unless you have are town and have a saving role) to:
• know that anyone had a saving role - since we don't know for certain what item are (though, of course, we can make strong assumptions on some)
• know that if the items did exist, they were picked by town
• that the saving role person would try to save Didds

So, by claiming draft #, Didds just made herself a target

The fact that she wasn't killed N1 doesn't after the fact mean the idea to claim was a good idea.

And like I said, while she survived the NK, she might still be poisoned and not even know it.

What I don't understand is how you think a doctor saved Didds and then also think it was a bad idea for people to draft order claim. I mean, didn't we get the best case scenario out of the claim? Or are you saying that despite it working out that it still was a bad play, because right now I'm seeing no negative consequences out of it.

All I am trying to say is that I believe claiming #s was a bad idea for town.

Thinking it was a bad choice is not incompatible with getting a good result. (and which may still end up not being a good result)

Also, I'm not saying definitively that doctor saved Didds, just that it's a possible scenario, that if true, shows that claiming # was risky, since there was no guarantee that there was a town doctor. Or that she was poisoned and will die N2.

[LaLight]

So what do we think triggered this?

Related to LaLight's item?
Related to the nth vote on Day 2?
Related to someone else's item?
Other ideas?

I have NO idea

[A Drowned Kernel]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

It moves the needle slightly to faust being townie for me

[A Drowned Kernel]

So what do we think triggered this?

Related to LaLight's item?
Related to the nth vote on Day 2?
Related to someone else's item?
Other ideas?

Is it worth speculating on?

[LaLight]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

I actually think this is more likely to come from scum!faust, to be honest

inbefore faust says that he is smarter than this, there are WIFOM levels

[shraeye]

faust is smarter than this, there are WIFOM levels.

But, no, that doesn't move my needle.

[LaLight]

faust is smarter than this, there are WIFOM levels.

But, no, that doesn't move my needle.

what about your vote?

[shraeye]

faust is smarter than this, there are WIFOM levels.

But, no, that doesn't move my needle.

what about your vote?

I don't see it going on faust right now.

[LaLight]

faust is smarter than this, there are WIFOM levels.

But, no, that doesn't move my needle.

what about your vote?

I don't see it going on faust right now.

fair enough

[cayvie]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

Well I certainly appreciate the info. And yeah, it does move the needle a little.

At which point was faust claiming that his predictions about two roles were correct?

[ashersky]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

This is very useful.  Obviously it changes nothing for me, but it may help inform other peoples' reads one way or the other, which is important.

If anyone wants me off of this train, I'm fairly certain the only reasonable piece of knowledge that can do that would be faust's actual role.  And seeing as how asking for that role will be called role fishing/scummy, I can't very well do that, can I?  I mean, I can, and basically I did, but you know what I mean.

I was thinking this for all of D2, but Glooble's explanation only strengthens my feelings.

[ashersky]

@faust

In your opinion, is lying as town okay, as a general rule?  Is lying as town to get what one sees as an advantage for town forgivable?  Should we lynch players caught in a lie 100% of the time?

Obviously these questions arise based on Glooble's information, but I do want to know what you think.

[Glooble]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

Well I certainly appreciate the info. And yeah, it does move the needle a little.

At which point was faust claiming that his predictions about two roles were correct?

Here's a thing. Neither the initial role he told me he had, nor the second role he told me he had, were his prediction for the item he got. Not even close.

So when he said he guessed two right, he actually meant he guessed... one right.

[Glooble]

Now I feel dumb for not catching this earlier.

[LaLight]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

Well I certainly appreciate the info. And yeah, it does move the needle a little.

At which point was faust claiming that his predictions about two roles were correct?

Here's a thing. Neither the initial role he told me he had, nor the second role he told me he had, were his prediction for the item he got. Not even close.

So when he said he guessed two right, he actually meant he guessed... one right.

this sounds really weird.

[MiX]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

Well I certainly appreciate the info. And yeah, it does move the needle a little.

At which point was faust claiming that his predictions about two roles were correct?

Here's a thing. Neither the initial role he told me he had, nor the second role he told me he had, were his prediction for the item he got. Not even close.

So when he said he guessed two right, he actually meant he guessed... one right.

LAL. I'm already voting for faust.

[scolapasta]

I've had faust on my radar since early on but I'll wait until I hear his response to the OK to lie as town questions...

[cayvie]

I've had faust on my radar since early on but I'll wait until I hear his response to the OK to lie as town questions...

What's the benefit of waiting on that information?

[cayvie]

I think a more useful piece of information would be whether Faust has a history of lying as town

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wait, so when did you find out that his initial claim was a lie?

[EFHW]

Supercbusy today. Will catch up tomorrow.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Like, I guess my questions would be:

Was faust's initial claim something confirmable? Was the later claim?
Did something prompt him to reveal the second claim, or did he just do it on his own?

[faust]

@faust

In your opinion, is lying as town okay, as a general rule?  Is lying as town to get what one sees as an advantage for town forgivable?  Should we lynch players caught in a lie 100% of the time?

Obviously these questions arise based on Glooble's information, but I do want to know what you think.

I think that in general, town should not lie. Most of the time, it backfires, and you're misleading all of town, potentially impeding their ability to find scum.

I also think that there are exceptions to this rule. In a 5-player scenario with 2 mafia and a Traitor, it is optimal for all of town to claim Traitor, for instance. And I think the metric is a bit different for QTs. I seem to remember a QT of two townies where one claimed Traitor to lure the other into giving up that they were scum, and the other townie pretending to be scum in order to mislead them. First of all, that is hilarious, but it can also be good play.

We shouldn't lynch players caught in a lie 100% of the time. Indeed, there is no single action a player can take that should lead us to lynch them 100% of the time.

[faust]

Here's a thing. Neither the initial role he told me he had, nor the second role he told me he had, were his prediction for the item he got. Not even close.

So when he said he guessed two right, he actually meant he guessed... one right.

I'm taking this to our QT.

[faust]

I've had faust on my radar since early on but I'll wait until I hear his response to the OK to lie as town questions...

Yeah, since about the time I started voting for you.

[faust]

Wait, so when did you find out that his initial claim was a lie?

I claimed the truth at the start of D2.

[Glooble]

Walking back something I said earlier... Faust’s guess was defensively similar to his initial claim. I don’t want to say more than that.

ADK I can’t answer those questions without giving scum too much info.

[Glooble]

*defensibly

[Glooble]

In other news, I just remembered that faust was scum who had a QT with a townie in War of the Spark mafia. Looking over that QT he also initially acts a little suspicious of UncleEurope before later “deciding he was town” and buddying up to him, and he even tells Uncle that he thought about lying to him about his role to try and influence the nightkill. This strategy paid off for scum in a big way in that game. Of course, faust knows I modded that game, so scum!faust would know I read that QT, which makes me skeptical he’d try the same plan. And back to wifom.

Anyone know of a neighborhood QT I could read where faust was *town*?

[faust]

Anyone know of a neighborhood QT I could read where faust was *town*?

I searched for neighborhoods in my QT list and all I could find was this one from M78, which is kind of abnormal because the neighbors had a common PR.

[faust]

There might still be others, but then they didn't have "Neighbor" in their title.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Walking back something I said earlier... Faust’s guess was defensively similar to his initial claim. I don’t want to say more than that.

ADK I can’t answer those questions without giving scum too much info.

It's hard for me to get a read on the situation, then

[A Drowned Kernel]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

Well I certainly appreciate the info. And yeah, it does move the needle a little.

At which point was faust claiming that his predictions about two roles were correct?

Here's a thing. Neither the initial role he told me he had, nor the second role he told me he had, were his prediction for the item he got. Not even close.

So when he said he guessed two right, he actually meant he guessed... one right.

How close were his guesses for raptor and mail-mi's items?

[Glooble]

I generally trust ashersky's reads and I have a hard time seeing scum!ash tunneling like this, which is causing to rethink my strong townread on faust, but it's not enough for me to actually want to lynch faust.

So, I want to share something that went down in our QT. Hopefully its still useful to people debating faust vs. ashersky even if I scrub the relevant details to avoid outing our roles.

faust's initial claim to me as far as what his item did was a lie. He claims he lied because he thought there was a decent chance I was scum and he wanted to misdirect the scum faction. Given what role he initially claimed and the role he later claimed, I see a stronger case for that behavior as town then as scum.

The other thing is I initially only partially claimed my role and faust pushed me to fully claim before he revealed his role. That part feels scummier to me. It didn't at the time, but in retrospect, there is a town narrative- he didn't want me to be able to weasel out of my claim later if I was scum- and a scum narrative- he needed to evaluate how powerful my role was to know if I was worth a nightkill.

Does this move the needle for anyone?

Well I certainly appreciate the info. And yeah, it does move the needle a little.

At which point was faust claiming that his predictions about two roles were correct?

Here's a thing. Neither the initial role he told me he had, nor the second role he told me he had, were his prediction for the item he got. Not even close.

So when he said he guessed two right, he actually meant he guessed... one right.

How close were his guesses for raptor and mail-mi's items?

Didn’t guess for flask and way off for Nightlock, but you kinda have to have read the books for that one.

[MiX]

Didn’t guess for flask and way off for Nightlock, but you kinda have to have read the books for that one.

A quick search for Nightlock in the wiki lead me to 1-shot poisoner, it sounds like one of the easiest ones to guess if you were trying to guess them.

LAL. 'Nuff said. But I should reread, hopefully today.

[shraeye]

LAL.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[MiX]

LAL.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Probably not.

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read scola. Nothing really jumped out at me. To me they mostly just read like a new player with above average assertiveness. I haven't found any of the arguments particularly compelling either. The only gut takeaway I got from this was that a couple of cayvie's arguments agains scola seem like a stretch; I'll look into her tomorrow.

[faust]

Didn’t guess for flask and way off for Nightlock, but you kinda have to have read the books for that one.

A quick search for Nightlock in the wiki lead me to 1-shot poisoner, it sounds like one of the easiest ones to guess if you were trying to guess them.

Probably easy to figure out you should google if you're a native speaker and know that that's not a real word.

[Jimmmmm]

LAL.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think on mafiascum they use it to mean Lynch All Liars. Here we use it to mean Lynch All Lurkers.

[MiX]

LAL.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think on mafiascum they use it to mean Lynch All Liars. Here we use it to mean Lynch All Lurkers.

Er, I might have forgotten that they have the same acronym. I could've swore Lynch All Lurkers had 4 letters, but I probably confused it with LyLo.

Didn’t guess for flask and way off for Nightlock, but you kinda have to have read the books for that one.

A quick search for Nightlock in the wiki lead me to 1-shot poisoner, it sounds like one of the easiest ones to guess if you were trying to guess them.

Probably easy to figure out you should google if you're a native speaker and know that that's not a real word.

I don't understand what you said here. Are you a native speaker? Because I'm not, and I thought you weren't, so I'm confused.

[Jimmmmm]

LAL.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think on mafiascum they use it to mean Lynch All Liars. Here we use it to mean Lynch All Lurkers.

Er, I might have forgotten that they have the same acronym. I could've swore Lynch All Lurkers had 4 letters, but I probably confused it with LyLo.

I believe I recall Robz announcing that we should Lynch All Lurkers, Literally; possibly LALL was used for a while after that.

[faust]

Didn’t guess for flask and way off for Nightlock, but you kinda have to have read the books for that one.

A quick search for Nightlock in the wiki lead me to 1-shot poisoner, it sounds like one of the easiest ones to guess if you were trying to guess them.

Probably easy to figure out you should google if you're a native speaker and know that that's not a real word.

I don't understand what you said here. Are you a native speaker? Because I'm not, and I thought you weren't, so I'm confused.

Yes that's true. What I'm saying is that I just figured it was a normal, if obscure, English word, a contraption to lock things at night.

I know my list of guesses has been hyped up by all the D1 discussion with ashersky, but it was just me taking 5 minutes to write the first thing that came to mind next to each item, if something did come to mind.

[faust]

LAL.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think on mafiascum they use it to mean Lynch All Liars. Here we use it to mean Lynch All Lurkers.

Er, I might have forgotten that they have the same acronym. I could've swore Lynch All Lurkers had 4 letters, but I probably confused it with LyLo.

I believe I recall Robz announcing that we should Lynch All Lurkers, Literally; possibly LALL was used for a while after that.

To add to the confusion, sometimes LALL was used to mean "Lynch All Lurkers and Liars".

[WestCoastDidds]

My guess on nightlock was that it would be some kind of jailkeeper. Literally night and lock.

And I read the books and saw the movies and am a native speaker. Guessing is hard.

[A Drowned Kernel]

The issue isn't that faust made a list of guesses, it's that he claimed that his list "wasn't far off" at a point when it had apparently been confirmed that he had only guessed right on one

[faust]

The issue isn't that faust made a list of guesses, it's that he claimed that his list "wasn't far off" at a point when it had apparently been confirmed that he had only guessed right on one

And why is that an issue?

[A Drowned Kernel]

The issue isn't that faust made a list of guesses, it's that he claimed that his list "wasn't far off" at a point when it had apparently been confirmed that he had only guessed right on one

And why is that an issue?

It's an odd thing to say, given the information you would have had at that point

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.4:

scolapasta (4): faust, ADK, EFHW, WCD
faust (2): MiX, LaLight
Ashersky (1): Cayvie

Not Voting (7): Glooble, E!, Jimmm, Ashersky, scolapasta, Lekkit, Shraeye


With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time. That is a little bit longer than 2 days from now!

[EFHW]

Ok, I'm caught up. The faust lying thing is not scummy, imo, EVEN THOUGH I am 100% against town lying.

[LaLight]

I want to claim a thing that may come up in the game later. The gift I received was a neighbourhood with a player of my choice for the rest of D2 and only D2. I don't want to claim anything else.

[LaLight]

Ok, I'm caught up. The faust lying thing is not scummy, imo, EVEN THOUGH I am 100% against town lying.

How are these two things work together?

[ashersky]

Ok, I'm caught up. The faust lying thing is not scummy, imo, EVEN THOUGH I am 100% against town lying.

How are these two things work together?

This.

100% against doing X.
faust does X is fine, nothing to see here, move along.

What?

[Jimmmmm]

There's a big difference between believing that Town shouldn't do something and believing they wouldn't.

For example I believe we shouldn't spend much if any time on Day 1 talking about different things we might claim, but that doesn't mean I think everyone who did that is scum.

[EFHW]

Ok, I'm caught up. The faust lying thing is not scummy, imo, EVEN THOUGH I am 100% against town lying.

How are these two things work together?

Lying by town is anti-town. By definition, it can't be scummy. In this case, I don't see scum!faust making obvious lies in hopes of misleading. He could be scum doing what he did, but knowing he did it doesn't help me decide.

[ashersky]

Ok, I'm caught up. The faust lying thing is not scummy, imo, EVEN THOUGH I am 100% against town lying.

How are these two things work together?

Lying by town is anti-town. By definition, it can't be scummy. In this case, I don't see scum!faust making obvious lies in hopes of misleading. He could be scum doing what he did, but knowing he did it doesn't help me decide.

How is it that something you think is "anti-town" also "can't be scummy" by definition?

I can see an argument that anti-town =/= scummy.  But to say it can't be scummy at all (that's what my understanding of "by definition" means here) seems flawed.  I feel like you should say "by definition, it can't NOT be scummy" instead.

[ashersky]

There's a big difference between believing that Town shouldn't do something and believing they wouldn't.

For example I believe we shouldn't spend much if any time on Day 1 talking about different things we might claim, but that doesn't mean I think everyone who did that is scum.

This is a strawman argument.  Neither EFHW nor I made either statement.

We are discussion whether it is scummy or not, not whether someone would do it or not.  We know people do it.  EFHW said:

It is scummy to do X.  Faust did X and it is not scummy.

That's an inconsistency.

[ashersky]

I mean, it isn't even a "I believe town shouldn't do X" statement.  It was a "I believe X is scummy" statement.  The first could be followed with "but I understand it happens."  The second could be followed up with "but it is possible for town to do it."

I get the feeling that that is where EFHW ends up, as it gives her an out to best explain her inconsistent statement.

Many player do many scummy things as town all the time.  That doesn't change the fact that the actions themselves were scummy.  That's my point -- if someone things X is scummy, then a player does X, they can't all of a sudden say X isn't scummy anymore.

[scolapasta]

Ok, I'm caught up. The faust lying thing is not scummy, imo, EVEN THOUGH I am 100% against town lying.

How are these two things work together?

Lying by town is anti-town. By definition, it can't be scummy. In this case, I don't see scum!faust making obvious lies in hopes of misleading. He could be scum doing what he did, but knowing he did it doesn't help me decide.

How is it that something you think is "anti-town" also "can't be scummy" by definition?

I can see an argument that anti-town =/= scummy.  But to say it can't be scummy at all (that's what my understanding of "by definition" means here) seems flawed.  I feel like you should say "by definition, it can't NOT be scummy" instead.

She's not saying ant-town can't be scummy, she's saying "Lying by town" can't be scummy.

[ashersky]

She's not saying ant-town can't be scummy, she's saying "Lying by town" can't be scummy.

Do you think that's better?

I guess there's an argument to be made that if a player is town, nothing they do is, "by definition," a scum action, because they are not scum.  But that's pedantic and irrelevant.

I generally use the adjective "scummy" (or fake adverb "scummily") to describe a noun or verb as something mafia-ish/suspicious/anti-town (I use mafia here as a stand-in for "alignment other than town").  I believe other players do the same thing.

As such, a town player may do a scummy thing, or scummily do something, even if they themselves are not mafia.  The action taker's alignment does not impact the adjective I place on the action itself, because I see the action as inherently having the characteristic.

As an illustration, I would say that dayvigging a mafia player is a pro-town move.  That action is towny.  If a mafia player were to take that action, it wouldn't change the towniness of the action itself -- the action is still towny.  Mafia do this all the time on a smaller scale to try to fool town players into believing they are town.

I doubt many would argue with that inverse example.  So why argue with my original statement?

[Jimmmmm]

There's a big difference between believing that Town shouldn't do something and believing they wouldn't.

For example I believe we shouldn't spend much if any time on Day 1 talking about different things we might claim, but that doesn't mean I think everyone who did that is scum.

This is a strawman argument.  Neither EFHW nor I made either statement.

We are discussion whether it is scummy or not, not whether someone would do it or not.  We know people do it.  EFHW said:

It is scummy to do X.  Faust did X and it is not scummy.

That's an inconsistency.

Where did she say it was scummy? Here she said she's "against [it]" and it "is not scummy"...

Ok, I'm caught up. The faust lying thing is not scummy, imo, EVEN THOUGH I am 100% against town lying.

and here she said it's "anti-town", which is different to scummy.

Lying by town is anti-town. By definition, it can't be scummy. In this case, I don't see scum!faust making obvious lies in hopes of misleading. He could be scum doing what he did, but knowing he did it doesn't help me decide.

Are you referring to some other post in which EFHW said lying was scummy?

She said she's against it (in other words she believes Town should not lie), but it's not scummy (as far as I'm concerned, scummy means "more likely to come from scum than Town"). It being scummy would imply that Town would not do it (or at least be less likely to do it than scum).

So yes, EFHW said Town shouldn't lie (ie she's against Town lying), and you implied that she meant Town wouldn't lie (ie it's scummy).

[EFHW]

^^ Thanks Jimmmmm. You saved me a lot of typing.

[ashersky]

You are just making things up, or misunderstanding me.

One -- we clearly work off of different definitions of scummy.  I guess we also need EFHW's.  And probably everyone else's, for the word to be useful.

In your quotes, I believe EFHW's use of "EVEN THOUGH" (in all caps, no less) equates scummy with 100% against.  Again, she can clear this up.  If there were no relation between the two, she wouldn't need it.  I am assuming that "being against" something "100%" means you think it is bad.  Outside of RSP issues, that would seem to make sense.  In a mafia game sense, can we feel something is 100% bad but also feel it is pro-town?  Contradictions exists throughout the world, so I guess so?

*****

Honestly, I don't know how to play this game anymore.  Perhaps I stayed away too long, and the vocabulary has changed so much that I am unable to play.  When did the meaning of words like scummy change?

Scum had always been used as a stand-in for "not town" players.  Hence, "scummy" is the adjectival version of that word, which we attach to nouns to describe them as being "of scum."  That appears to somewhat match Jimmmmm's definition -- more likely to come from scum than town.

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

So, if I am the only person who equated scummy with anti-town, who thought scummy meant bad, who thought scummy was something we wanted to catch, I apologize.   I missed that memo, or paradigm shift, or whatever.  If someone could point me to the correct words to be used to describe what I thought scummy meant, that would be much appreciated.

[ashersky]

^^ Thanks Jimmmmm. You saved me a lot of typing.

For me, who everyone finds dumber than anyone else, could you break it down like this?

Is lying as town a good thing or a bad thing?
Is doing a bad thing scummy?
Are scummy things anti-town or pro-town?

[ashersky]

So yes, EFHW said Town shouldn't lie (ie she's against Town lying), and you implied that she meant Town wouldn't lie (ie it's scummy).

The bolded portion is what is so insulting.

How does "town wouldn't lie" = "it's scummy"?

And when did I say/imply that?

Also, if EFHW did say town shouldn't do something, and then town did do that something, what adjective would she use to describe that?

[ashersky]

I really feel like if EFHW had just said something like

"You know, I really think lying as town is never a good thing to do, but the fact that faust lied in his QT doesn't really move me closer to knowing his alignment since I could see him doing that as any alignment"

and left it at that, this wouldn't be a discussion.  But she didn't say that, so I assume she didn't mean that.

[cayvie]

^^ Thanks Jimmmmm. You saved me a lot of typing.

For me, who everyone finds dumber than anyone else, could you break it down like this?

Is lying as town a good thing or a bad thing?
Is doing a bad thing scummy?
Are scummy things anti-town or pro-town?

It's pretty confusing to me too, tbh.

From what I gather, "scummy" means "evidence a person is scum" while "anti town" means "hurts the Town's chances of winning"

Two categories that often overlap but not always

[ashersky]

^^ Thanks Jimmmmm. You saved me a lot of typing.

For me, who everyone finds dumber than anyone else, could you break it down like this?

Is lying as town a good thing or a bad thing?
Is doing a bad thing scummy?
Are scummy things anti-town or pro-town?

It's pretty confusing to me too, tbh.

From what I gather, "scummy" means "evidence a person is scum" while "anti town" means "hurts the Town's chances of winning"

Two categories that often overlap but not always

Your take makes sense.  It is consistent. Is "pro-town" the opposite of "anti-town" in this formulation?  And is "towny" the opposite of "scummy" here?  So we have scummy/towny and anti-town/pro-town.

Action A can be evidence a person is scum and hurt town's chances of winning, so that action is scummy and anti-town.
Action B may not be evidence a person is scum but hurt town's chances of winning, so that action is towny and anti-town.
Action C can be evidence a person is scum but not hurt town's chances of winning, so that action is scummy and pro-town.
Action D may not be evidence a person is scum and does not hurt town's chances of winning, so that action is towny and pro-town.

Are those the four basic formulations possible here?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Here's what I would like to know: Glooble, why did you bring this up if you weren't going to vote for faust or major a case on him?

[scolapasta]

I really feel like if EFHW had just said something like

"You know, I really think lying as town is never a good thing to do, but the fact that faust lied in his QT doesn't really move me closer to knowing his alignment since I could see him doing that as any alignment"

and left it at that, this wouldn't be a discussion.  But she didn't say that, so I assume she didn't mean that.

That's how I interpreted what she said, just not in so many words. Please don't ask me to explain why I interpreted that way, I wasn't trying to parse exact semantic meaning.

FYI, my definition for scummy was doing something scum would do. You're right that that could be anti-town or deceptive pro-town.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Another fun question: faust, how has this affected your read of Glooble?

[Jimmmmm]

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

If you're looking for an example of a strawman, here it is.

So yes, EFHW said Town shouldn't lie (ie she's against Town lying), and you implied that she meant Town wouldn't lie (ie it's scummy).

The bolded portion is what is so insulting.

Insulting how? Even if I'm wrong and you didn't imply that, or didn't mean to, how is it insulting for me to simply state that you did a thing? Is it more insulting than saying something like, "In ash's world, this absurd conclusion is true"?

How does "town wouldn't lie" = "it's scummy"?

Because the game is all about trying to figure out what people would do as Town compared to what they would do as scum. If that's not what Towny/scummy means then we shouldn't use those words when deciding on a lynch.

And when did I say/imply that?

When you implied that EFHW's statement that lying is anti-Town but not scummy was contradictory, and then said "EFHW said: It is scummy to do X." That is literally you saying that EFHW said lying was scummy.

Also, if EFHW did say town shouldn't do something, and then town did do that something, what adjective would she use to describe that?

I'm guessing anti-Town.

[ashersky]

Because the game is all about trying to figure out what people would do as Town compared to what they would do as scum. If that's not what Towny/scummy means then we shouldn't use those words when deciding on a lynch.

As I point out, it appears that I am the only player that uses towny/scummy as descriptive adjectives for actions, players, etc. in the way that I do.  I disagree with your description of what this game is all about, and so I guess I disagree about the way those words should be used.  But again, I tried to address this, and cayvie weighed in there.

If everyone else uses the Jimmmmm's Dictionary of Mafia Terms version, there's nothing I can do about it.  I just don't have a copy, so I have no way to look up the words.

[ashersky]

Quotefail.

Because the game is all about trying to figure out what people would do as Town compared to what they would do as scum. If that's not what Towny/scummy means then we shouldn't use those words when deciding on a lynch.

As I point out, it appears that I am the only player that uses towny/scummy as descriptive adjectives for actions, players, etc. in the way that I do.  I disagree with your description of what this game is all about, and so I guess I disagree about the way those words should be used.  But again, I tried to address this, and cayvie weighed in there.

If everyone else uses the Jimmmmm's Dictionary of Mafia Terms version, there's nothing I can do about it.  I just don't have a copy, so I have no way to look up the words.

[Jimmmmm]

If everyone else uses the Jimmmmm's Dictionary of Mafia Terms version, there's nothing I can do about it.  I just don't have a copy, so I have no way to look up the words.

Try this.

Scummy: "To make actions that scum are more likely to make. This is similar to, but distinct from, Anti-Town (hinder[ing] the Town's ability to achieve their Win Condition)."

[faust]

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

Well, claiming scum is a scummy thing to do, but usually pro-town.

[faust]

Another fun question: faust, how has this affected your read of Glooble?

I'm not too happy with it, but it probably makes him townier.

[ashersky]

If everyone else uses the Jimmmmm's Dictionary of Mafia Terms version, there's nothing I can do about it.  I just don't have a copy, so I have no way to look up the words.

Try this.

Scummy: "To make actions that scum are more likely to make. This is similar to, but distinct from, Anti-Town (hinder[ing] the Town's ability to achieve their Win Condition)."

Order received, captain.

I will just have to train myself to not use the word.  I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.  (Obviously I am not referring to role powers/factional powers, etc.)  If the requirement for me to call something scummy is for it to be an action that "scum are more likely to make," I don't see how I can use the word.  Nor can I see how anyone can, given I find it very hard to believe anyone can prove that statement.

That definition provided also precludes one whole set of usage.  It's either "That action is scummy" (describing the action as one that scum are more likely to make" OR "ashersky is scummy" (describing that ashersky is making actions that scum are more likely to make).  (I am ignoring that "make action" does really "make sense" and should be take action.)

The way the definition reads to me, it appears to be saying "to be scummy" = "to make actions that scum are more likely to make" so in that sense, I think it described players, not actions.

Can we extrapolate, then, that actions taken by players who meet the above definition of scummy can also be called scummy?

Anyway, I will just have to look for another word to describe things that I find...reasontovoteable?

[ashersky]

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

Well, claiming scum is a scummy thing to do, but usually pro-town.

As town, or as scum?

I would content that scum claiming scum is both towny and pro-town (as an action in and of itself).

[Jimmmmm]

Order received, captain.

I really don't understand where this hostility is coming from.

[ashersky]

Order received, captain.

I really don't understand where this hostility is coming from.

It was just a response to your imperative sentence.

Captain is just a thing I say sometimes -- like hoss or cuz.  It's also pronounced captn.

[faust]

I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.

So what does this mean?

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

[Jimmmmm]

Anyway, I will just have to look for another word to describe things that I find...reasontovoteable?

You can vote for someone for any number of reasons. Typically you participate in lynching someone because you think they're more likely to be scum than other options. Anyway that's the pro-Town move.

[faust]

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

Well, claiming scum is a scummy thing to do, but usually pro-town.

As town, or as scum?

I would content that scum claiming scum is both towny and pro-town (as an action in and of itself).

If I needed to know whether a person was town or scum before deciding whether their action was scummy, then then term would be useless.

[ashersky]

I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.

So what does this mean?

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

It's me saying that you did something that I think scum would do.  Why?

[ashersky]

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

Well, claiming scum is a scummy thing to do, but usually pro-town.

As town, or as scum?

I would content that scum claiming scum is both towny and pro-town (as an action in and of itself).

If I needed to know whether a person was town or scum before deciding whether their action was scummy, then then term would be useless.

The term has been rendered useless, as far as I can tell.

[faust]

I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.

So what does this mean?

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

It's me saying that you did something that I think scum would do.  Why?

Doesn't that imply that you think the action is more likely to be made by scum?

[ashersky]

I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.

So what does this mean?

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

It's me saying that you did something that I think scum would do.  Why?

Doesn't that imply that you think the action is more likely to be made by scum?

No.  I don't know if it is MORE likely to be taken by scum than town.  I just think it is something scum would do.

[faust]

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

Well, claiming scum is a scummy thing to do, but usually pro-town.

As town, or as scum?

I would content that scum claiming scum is both towny and pro-town (as an action in and of itself).

If I needed to know whether a person was town or scum before deciding whether their action was scummy, then then term would be useless.

The term has been rendered useless, as far as I can tell.

I'm just trying to understand how you would use it in a (from your perspective) non-useless way.

[faust]

I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.

So what does this mean?

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

It's me saying that you did something that I think scum would do.  Why?

Doesn't that imply that you think the action is more likely to be made by scum?

No.  I don't know if it is MORE likely to be taken by scum than town.  I just think it is something scum would do.

So there are actions that scum would not do? Which are thus more likely to be made by town than by scum?

[ashersky]

I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.

So what does this mean?

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

It's me saying that you did something that I think scum would do.  Why?

Doesn't that imply that you think the action is more likely to be made by scum?

No.  I don't know if it is MORE likely to be taken by scum than town.  I just think it is something scum would do.

So there are actions that scum would not do? Which are thus more likely to be made by town than by scum?

I don't know.  We'd like to think that way, but I don't think it's true.  Hammering scum is an example of something we don't think scum would do, but they do, and it's become a thing to think about.

[faust]

I truly believe there is no way to determine if an action is more likely to be made by scum or town.

So what does this mean?

TLDR: faust fakes not knowing something he definitely should have known.  That's a scum move right there.

It's me saying that you did something that I think scum would do.  Why?

Doesn't that imply that you think the action is more likely to be made by scum?

No.  I don't know if it is MORE likely to be taken by scum than town.  I just think it is something scum would do.

So there are actions that scum would not do? Which are thus more likely to be made by town than by scum?

I don't know.  We'd like to think that way, but I don't think it's true.  Hammering scum is an example of something we don't think scum would do, but they do, and it's become a thing to think about.

So what made you pick that action to say "That's a scum move right there." when you could have said the same thing about literally any other of my (or anyone's) actions?

[ashersky]

So what made you pick that action to say "That's a scum move right there." when you could have said the same thing about literally any other of my (or anyone's) actions?

I was making a case on you in that post, not on anyone else.

You are correct -- any action by any player can be believe to be taken by a player of any alignment.  I happen to think your action was taken by you with a non-town alignment.  That doesn't preclude me being incorrect and you taking that action with a town alignment.  It also does not preclude the possibility that you would take that action much more often, or only, with a town alignment.

Hence, I am unable to fulfill the given definition of scummy.  Therefore, it must be a useless use of the word.

Instead, I can only endeavor to find another word to use.  Or another phrasing.  But I doubt I'll come up with anything, so I don't feel like trying.

As such, it seems opinions (at least mine) are worthless in this context.

[ashersky]

Maybe the best I can do is describe my feelings/opinions instead.

I feel that faust may not have the town alignment because when he did X, it caused me to think that way.  That way I'm not calling him or the action scummy, so I can't misuse the word.

Is that acceptable?

[Jimmmmm]

Are you trying to suggest that under the standard definition of scummy you can only apply it when you're certain someone is scum?

[ashersky]

Are you trying to suggest that under the standard definition of scummy you can only apply it when you're certain someone is scum?

I'm trying to suggest that under the standard definition of scummy that you provided, it can only be applied when you can be certain that the action you are applying it to is more likely to be taken by scum.

And I am also suggesting that it is impossible to be certain of that due to human nature, historical record, etc.

[faust]

I happen to think your action was taken by you with a non-town alignment.

I just wish to know why you think that, if you don't also think it's more likely that I would take that action as scum.

It seems to me that you are comfortable talking about who is scum or town in terms of opinions, but when it comes to the likelihood of of an action being taken from town or scum, opinions are bad and only hard, undisputable facts (which are of course impossible to come by) are relevant. I can't say I get that, but at least I feel I understood something about your approach.

[faust]

Like, it seems to me that from ashersky's perspective.

- "I think X is town" is a useful statement even though you cannot be certain of it.
- "I think X is more likely to do Y as scum" is not a useful statement becuase you cannot be certain of it.

[ashersky]

I happen to think your action was taken by you with a non-town alignment.

I just wish to know why you think that, if you don't also think it's more likely that I would take that action as scum.

It seems to me that you are comfortable talking about who is scum or town in terms of opinions, but when it comes to the likelihood of of an action being taken from town or scum, opinions are bad and only hard, undisputable facts (which are of course impossible to come by) are relevant. I can't say I get that, but at least I feel I understood something about your approach.

I guess.

Whether or not a player is "towny" or "scummy" is subjective; it is based on the observer's opinions and experiences.  Saying "X is town" is different than saying "X is towny."  One is a verifiable fact and the other is an opinion.

When it comes to taking an action, for example "lying as town," I think I tend to apply the adjectives "towny" or "scummy" in a less subjective manner.  That is, I feel like we should be able to objectively agree that it is one or the other.  People's opinions vary, though, and we end up not agreeing, which is fine.  Some will say it is towny, others will say scummy.  Opinions aren't bad, per se, but I'd like them to be consistent.

[ashersky]

Like, it seems to me that from ashersky's perspective.

- "I think X is town" is a useful statement even though you cannot be certain of it.
- "I think X is more likely to do Y as scum" is not a useful statement becuase you cannot be certain of it.

The second statement is not the same as "I think Y is more likely to be done by scum."  The second statement is about a player, which makes it useful.

Scola not voting for two flipped mafia players is scummy.
Not voting for two flipped mafia players is scummy.

Those two are not equal (to me).

[cayvie]

can we talk about the game please

[Jimmmmm]

Are you trying to suggest that under the standard definition of scummy you can only apply it when you're certain someone is scum?

I'm trying to suggest that under the standard definition of scummy that you provided, it can only be applied when you can be certain that the action you are applying it to is more likely to be taken by scum.

And I am also suggesting that it is impossible to be certain of that due to human nature, historical record, etc.

I mean, obviously it's subjective.

[Jimmmmm]

When it comes to taking an action, for example "lying as town," I think I tend to apply the adjectives "towny" or "scummy" in a less subjective manner.  That is, I feel like we should be able to objectively agree that it is one or the other.  People's opinions vary, though, and we end up not agreeing, which is fine.  Some will say it is towny, others will say scummy.  Opinions aren't bad, per se, but I'd like them to be consistent.

I don't think "Is lying as Town scummy?" is a question that makes any sense. Lying as Town may or may not be pro-Town and lying may or may not be scummy.

[Jimmmmm]

can we talk about the game please

Yeah. I think there's a fair bit of Someone Is Wrong On The Internet Syndrome going around. Not pro-Town but not necessarily scummy.

[ashersky]

can we talk about the game please

Sure!  Vote for faust.  I believe he was assigned a non-town alignment.

[faust]

Request prod on Lekkit

[Glooble]

Here's what I would like to know: Glooble, why did you bring this up if you weren't going to vote for faust or major a case on him?

Because it seems like information town should have.

Also, maybe when I made the post I was thinking I was going to vote for faust, but I haven’t been able to.

The district QTs engender a kind of manufactured solidarity and trust that makes voting for your neighbor feel like a betrayal. It’s something a scum player could manipulate easily and I think that has me on my guard. Basically I keep second guessing myself on whether faust feels townie to me because he is and my gut reads are good or whether faust feels townie because he’s manipulating me.

[Glooble]

That being said I’m aware that time is running out and I need to vote somewhere. Discussion about lynching faust dominating the conversation while no one actually voted for him isn’t helpful either.

[MiX]

I lost my reply to all the ash shenanigans...and I don't care. Ash, I had a bunch of things to say, but I'll shorten to this: calling something scummy, for me, is the same as saying I think that person is scum because they did that action. It's shorthand for "in my experience I've seen that X is something scum does more than town on average and thus indicates to me that they are scum". Whatever definition people want to use that is grounded on literal probabilities are foolish.

Now, the game.

Here's what I would like to know: Glooble, why did you bring this up if you weren't going to vote for faust or major a case on him?

Are you faust's buddy?

That being said I’m aware that time is running out and I need to vote somewhere. Discussion about lynching faust dominating the conversation while no one actually voted for him isn’t helpful either.

No one, you say, huh...last time I checked I was in this game.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning! Wow....I like thinking about words and that is a lot more content than I’d have ever expected. Words are slippery and ambiguous, but the only tools we have for playing this game in this medium.

At the end of it all, I feel like I know Ashersky somewhat better, and I also think that it would beyond awesome if we could all actually sit and talk sometime. I’m not sure anyone would feel insulted or misunderstood if we could do this with eye contact and gestures.

Anyway.... the game!

Remember when LaLight got that gift from the heavens? That was cool.

Or how about a vote count? The last one I see is on my page 52, and scolapasta was way out in front.

Deadline is tomorrow at 9pm-ish FT

[EFHW]

^^ Thanks Jimmmmm. You saved me a lot of typing.

For me, who everyone finds dumber than anyone else, could you break it down like this?

Is lying as town a good thing or a bad thing?
Is doing a bad thing scummy?
Are scummy things anti-town or pro-town?

Anti-town is different from scummy.

Lying as town is anti-town. 

I don't know faust's alignment, and the information here doesn't help me decide what it is.

[scolapasta]

Or how about a vote count? The last one I see is on my page 52, and scolapasta was way out in front.

I mean there's also one on 57 where I'm less in front.

So most games have all this debate about word meanings? Or is this just the quarantine making everyone a little extra stir crazy?

[EFHW]

vote: ashersky.

This is the second day in a row he has cluttered the thread with endless arguments after having already made his point the first time.

[faust]

vote: ashersky.

This is the second day in a row he has cluttered the thread with endless arguments after having already made his point the first time.

And this makes him scum why?

[WestCoastDidds]

Or how about a vote count? The last one I see is on my page 52, and scolapasta was way out in front.

I mean there's also one on 57 where I'm less in front.

So most games have all this debate about word meanings? Or is this just the quarantine making everyone a little extra stir crazy?

I find these particular debates unusual. There are often questions about why someone said something, but not often at a semantic level and to this extent. Thanks for the tip on a more recent vote count. I’m better once I’ve had coffee....

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote Count 2.WCD

scolapasta (3): faust, ADK, WCD
faust (2): MiX, LaLight
Ashersky (2): Cayvie, EFHW

Not Voting (7): Glooble, E!, Jimmm, Ashersky, scolapasta, Lekkit, Shraeye

With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time.

[EFHW]

vote: ashersky.

This is the second day in a row he has cluttered the thread with endless arguments after having already made his point the first time.

And this makes him scum why?

Tried and true scum method to impede scum hunting.

[scolapasta]

I'm going to go ahead and vote: ashersky

I'm willing to admit I'm not so sure, i.e. the impeding seems a little excessive and *too* obvious.

But I'll also admit, part of my reasoning is self-preservation.

[cayvie]

Here's what I would like to know: Glooble, why did you bring this up if you weren't going to vote for faust or major a case on him?

Because it seems like information town should have.

Also, maybe when I made the post I was thinking I was going to vote for faust, but I haven’t been able to.

The district QTs engender a kind of manufactured solidarity and trust that makes voting for your neighbor feel like a betrayal. It’s something a scum player could manipulate easily and I think that has me on my guard. Basically I keep second guessing myself on whether faust feels townie to me because he is and my gut reads are good or whether faust feels townie because he’s manipulating me.

i really like this post. i definitely find myself having similar thoughts about my district buddy; i get the gut feeling that she's town, and then i second guess whether that's genuine intuition or whether i just really want to have a neighbor i can trust.

[Lekkit]

scolapasta, out of ADK, Shraeye, Jimmm and Ashersky, who would you prefer to lynch today?

Back at you, mate. I know this is getting old, but I'm still waiting for you to share your scumreads.

The sad truth is that I don't have a strong scumread on anyone. There's been bickering going on but not much else. I do think we should look at the people who were not on the Raptor wagon. Maybe not people on the mail-mi wagon, but that leaves us with a very small lynch pool.

And that leaves scolapasta, Jimmm, and Ashersky. If we include the mail-mi people we also have ADK, me and Shraeye.

Out of the first pool, I'd rather not lynch Jimmm. I could go for both scola and Ash. Out of the second group I'd also be willing to go for Shraeye.

[Lekkit]

People I definately won't want to lynch is e, cayvie and MiX.

[Lekkit]

I was hoping we could've had some more talk about whether or not we're looking for another scum team or if we think there's only one scum team. But I think that'll have to wait. And in the meantime I'll stick to my theory about there only being one mafia faction. So no werewolves. Which leads me to believe we have to look closer at those who were not voting for Raptor (and to a certain extent mail-mi).

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ashersky.

This is the second day in a row he has cluttered the thread with endless arguments after having already made his point the first time.

And this makes him scum why?

Tried and true scum method to impede scum hunting.

[citation needed]

[scolapasta]

Here's what I would like to know: Glooble, why did you bring this up if you weren't going to vote for faust or major a case on him?

Because it seems like information town should have.

Also, maybe when I made the post I was thinking I was going to vote for faust, but I haven’t been able to.

The district QTs engender a kind of manufactured solidarity and trust that makes voting for your neighbor feel like a betrayal. It’s something a scum player could manipulate easily and I think that has me on my guard. Basically I keep second guessing myself on whether faust feels townie to me because he is and my gut reads are good or whether faust feels townie because he’s manipulating me.

i really like this post. i definitely find myself having similar thoughts about my district buddy; i get the gut feeling that she's town, and then i second guess whether that's genuine intuition or whether i just really want to have a neighbor i can trust.

It gets challenging when your neighbor claims your scum early day 1. Though, as I've started to say, my new theory is that maybe that actually points to them being town (and just wrong).

So I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there, which you all can tell me why it's very wrong:
Since I'm new, scum!Shraeye wouldn't accuse me of being scum. (I think the theory has diminishing returns for scum!faust and scum!LaLight, but does help me lean partially that way)

And yes, this is different from initial OMGUS that they were scum, and I'm still ambivalent towards shraeye and faust for other reasons, but that's where I'm at.

[cayvie]

Here's what I would like to know: Glooble, why did you bring this up if you weren't going to vote for faust or major a case on him?

Because it seems like information town should have.

Also, maybe when I made the post I was thinking I was going to vote for faust, but I haven’t been able to.

The district QTs engender a kind of manufactured solidarity and trust that makes voting for your neighbor feel like a betrayal. It’s something a scum player could manipulate easily and I think that has me on my guard. Basically I keep second guessing myself on whether faust feels townie to me because he is and my gut reads are good or whether faust feels townie because he’s manipulating me.

i really like this post. i definitely find myself having similar thoughts about my district buddy; i get the gut feeling that she's town, and then i second guess whether that's genuine intuition or whether i just really want to have a neighbor i can trust.

It gets challenging when your neighbor claims your scum early day 1. Though, as I've started to say, my new theory is that maybe that actually points to them being town (and just wrong).

So I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there, which you all can tell me why it's very wrong:
Since I'm new, scum!Shraeye wouldn't accuse me of being scum. (I think the theory has diminishing returns for scum!faust and scum!LaLight, but does help me lean partially that way)

And yes, this is different from initial OMGUS that they were scum, and I'm still ambivalent towards shraeye and faust for other reasons, but that's where I'm at.

what's the thinking behind your theory? why wouldn't scum!shraeye do that?

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, disappeared there for a while.

I need to reread, not sure where my vote is going to end up, but probably somewhere based on D1 wagons.

As much as I completely agree town should never lie (I didn't catch what it was- again, need to read), faust's voting record makes him at least not mafia (even if he is scum) and I think we should look for mafia not a different scum faction.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.5:

scolapasta (3): faust, ADK, WCD
Ashersky (3): Cayvie, EFHW, scolapasta
faust (2): MiX, LaLight


Not Voting (6): Glooble, E!, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit, Shraeye


With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time. That is a little bit longer than 1 day from now!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Sorry, disappeared there for a while.

I need to reread, not sure where my vote is going to end up, but probably somewhere based on D1 wagons.

As much as I completely agree town should never lie (I didn't catch what it was- again, need to read), faust's voting record makes him at least not mafia (even if he is scum) and I think we should look for mafia not a different scum faction.

We don't know exactly what it was, which is part of the problem

[scolapasta]

what's the thinking behind your theory? why wouldn't scum!shraeye do that?

As town, you're trying to find scum, so if you have a hunch (in this particular case, a misguided one) there's little reason not to go with it. As scum, not so much, any non your team is a good kill. So why not target someone more experienced? i.e. I'd want to keep the inexperienced person around longer, especially if they're in my neighborhood and maybe I can take advantage of that inexperience*.

* Especially since by targeting your neighbor, you create distrust and lose this potential opportunity

Of course with two factions, there's a chance you're both scum against each other, but even then, there's an argument to be made that keeping the inexperienced person alive is preferred.

[Glooble]

I would love to think that we can limit the lynchpool to three people. But I don't think that's reality. Scum died at night. No one has claimed the kill. Occams razor says we have a second scum team or a serial killer. And those people could be anywhere on or off the wagons.

[faust]

I would love to think that we can limit the lynchpool to three people. But I don't think that's reality. Scum died at night. No one has claimed the kill. Occams razor says we have a second scum team or a serial killer. And those people could be anywhere on or off the wagons.

It's still best to lynch someone who could be either mafia or third party.

[shraeye]

In Jimmmmm's world, scummy actions are not anti-town.  I don't recall players calling others out in this fashion:  "hey, that's a scummy thing to do, but definitely pro-town, so keep it up!"  Like, what's the use?

Well, claiming scum is a scummy thing to do, but usually pro-town.

Thanks for the spit-take faust.

[shraeye]

can we talk about the game please

yeah.  seriously.

I think ash knows what he's doing.

vote: ash

[shraeye]

vote: ashersky.

This is the second day in a row he has cluttered the thread with endless arguments after having already made his point the first time.

seconded.  I almost voted him over it day 1.

[shraeye]

I was hoping we could've had some more talk about whether or not we're looking for another scum team or if we think there's only one scum team. But I think that'll have to wait. And in the meantime I'll stick to my theory about there only being one mafia faction. So no werewolves. Which leads me to believe we have to look closer at those who were not voting for Raptor (and to a certain extent mail-mi).

Somehow people think this is a very scummy thing to talk about.  So that probably stops scum from engaging in this talk; and town who are worried about their optics.

I alternate between being very sure there is more than one team, and very sure there is only one team.  So I'd say 50/50, but I think a lot depends on (redacted), which I aim to know by tomorrow.

[Jimmmmm]

can we talk about the game please

yeah.  seriously.

I think ash knows what he's doing.

vote: ash

With ash I try to err on the side of not thinking he's scum for this sort of thing because I tend to disagree with so much that he says and get sucked into this kind of argument with him; I think that's likely to bias me against him. Is there more to this argument that you can make against him?

[ashersky]

25 hours or so until deadline.

We have three viable wagons currently (remember, always add 1 to any wagon when I'm not voting).  I assume no one is bringing up a new name at this time?

I think scola has been reasonable recently, enough to wait him out.

I believe the lynch should be faust or ashersky, given the options with votes.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ugh...I’m not sure I’m feeling any of those three.

E, shraeye, Glooble, Jimmm? Any new takes on things?

I agree the schola is seeming towny, but the Ashersky v faust dispute(s) don’t seem necessarily  scummy. Whose flying below the radar letting them duke it out?

[EFHW]

6 people not voting makes it hard to see which wagons are viable. Hopefully that will be remedied soon!

[ashersky]

scolapasta (3): faust, ADK, WCD
faust (2): MiX, LaLight
Ashersky (3): Cayvie, EFHW, shraeye

Not Voting (6): Glooble, E!, Jimmm, Ashersky, scolapasta, Lekkit

Well, we are at 4/3/4 with 5 to vote.  So we need opinions from

Glooble
2.7
Jimmmmm
scolapasta
Lekkit

I'm fairly certain scola scumreads ash and town reads faust (and themselves)
I'd guess 2.7 would favor faust over ash
Jimmmm will go ash over faust, but don't know where he sits on scola
Glooble and Lekkit...no idea

So my best guess is we are at something like this with two unknowns at this point:

Scola 4
faust 4
ash 6

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmm will go ash over faust

I'll probably regret asking this, but why do you think that?

[cayvie]

vote: scolapasta

The plight of the essential healthcare worker... I will try to explain in more depth why I'd rather have my vote here once I get home and am not phone posting.

Suffice it to say I didn't like his answer to my question earlier

[LaLight]

I don't want ash lynched. I don't have any hard evidence he is town, I just townread him a lot

[scolapasta]

I'm going to go ahead and vote: ashersky

I'm willing to admit I'm not so sure, i.e. the impeding seems a little excessive and *too* obvious.

But I'll also admit, part of my reasoning is self-preservation.

I had voted already ^^^^

Did I do it wrong?

[Swowl]

Edited. sorry.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.6:

scolapasta (4): faust, ADK, WCD, Cayvie
Ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, Shraeye
faust (2): MiX, LaLight


Not Voting (5): Glooble, E!, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit


With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time. That is less than 24 hours from now!

[ashersky]

Jimmmm will go ash over faust

I'll probably regret asking this, but why do you think that?

Just the read I get based on interactions so far.  You mentioned your possible bias (unconscious or otherwise), and I appreciate that you are congnizant of it (we all have them).  I think if it comes down to it, you'd lean that way.

I don't know that you think either of us are particularly likely to be scum, but if you needed to rank the two of us, I just think you'd rank me higher on that scale.

I guess it is possible that you use that feeling to vote scola, given that is faust's preferred choice today, over voting me, all things considered.

They were just my guesses.

[cayvie]

what's the thinking behind your theory? why wouldn't scum!shraeye do that?

As town, you're trying to find scum, so if you have a hunch (in this particular case, a misguided one) there's little reason not to go with it. As scum, not so much, any non your team is a good kill. So why not target someone more experienced? i.e. I'd want to keep the inexperienced person around longer, especially if they're in my neighborhood and maybe I can take advantage of that inexperience*.

* Especially since by targeting your neighbor, you create distrust and lose this potential opportunity

Of course with two factions, there's a chance you're both scum against each other, but even then, there's an argument to be made that keeping the inexperienced person alive is preferred.

i guess it's going to turn out that my typed up explanation is shorter and simpler than my phone posted one earlier.

i just get the constant nagging sense (especially here) that scolapasta is trying to say the "right thing", whatever that may be. as opposed to just being honest. and yeah, maybe this is due to never having played with him before, and it turns out that this is just what he sounds like. but combined with his voting record, it's a more concrete reason to vote someone than ash just being generally, well, ash.

also lalight is really confident on his ash townread, and i've decided to pay a lot of attention to what people say about their district mates this game.

[Jimmmmm]

As mentioned in my post about scola, I re-read cayvie. Immediately I noticed her post count and remembered that she's probably the Towniest person in the game, so the whole thing may just be an exercise in futility.

However I do find some of her reasons for voting a little suspcious.

You will when we're done, because ash has promised to explain.

And when we're done revealing everybody's draft number, I'll explain how that leads to actual scumhunting instead of just "now ash knows which items aren't used" or some other bizarrely specific, clairvoyance-dependent, unhelpful information

yeah you know what?

vote: Ashersky

the bandages were available in round 2. i think he's searching for the doctor.

Even if ash is scum, this is not what he was doing. Sure, a Doctor can save day come late game, but it is really not a role that scum is particularly worried about, especially in a game this big

vote: scolapasta

[...debate about item names...]

And now back to the debate!

When you've quoted faust, you've left out a key part of what he said:"As a more contrete (maybe) counter to shraeye"

I don't think faust was claiming that all 13 objects he guessed where correct (even if her were scum, how would he be able to confirm 13?), just that, as Jimmmmm captures above, it is possible to have a guess based on item name. i.e. that knowing someone's item can give you some idea of their role.

And my "not buying it" is that it feels like you are deliberately taking faust out of that context, in order to create chaos and suspicion.

to me, in the context of his other posts, this post reads as full of relief that he gets to weigh in on the correct (sorry Ash) side of an argument with gusto. it's stressful pretending to scumhunt! what a blessing to see a townie being logically wrong and to be able to argue against him!

This argument doesn't really make any sense to me. There has been plenty of debate this game; why was this post picked out as scummy? "In the context of his other posts" is a vague but clever-sounding justification. His recent posts from here were some discussion about claiming, and some reads on WCD, shraeye, ash and others. I suppose you could make the argument that it's convenient to find find someone scummy (he had just voted for ash) and also disagree with them about something, but really people will argue ad infinitum simply because they believe someone is wrong.

vote: e
Going for bow and arrow (almost certainly a vig) would be a great move as scum.

For anyone who knows anything about the flavor at all, the bow and arrow were obviously one of the most valuable items, and once we found out our role went with our item, we knew it would be Katniss.

I think it would be a too choice, or at least a consideration, for everyone in the top half of the draft.

yeah me too! that's why e's explanation of "i took it to keep it out of the hands of scum" rings false to me. you don't bid on the bow and arrow because you're taking one for the team; you do it because it's probably awesome and you wanna be katniss! pew pew!

"You don't bid on the bow and arrow because you're taking one for the team". Uh, yes you do. Sure this is a big RMM and people want to have fun and have cool roles, but it's also a team game. I think a lot of people here, once a game has started, will choose to do the pro-team move over the fun move. I'm not sure Vig is all that fun of a role anyway; even if you have a full Vig, a lot of players will choose to not shoot more often than shoot.

For the record (I probably should have mentioned this earlier), before taking the Bow and Arrow, e did mention he would probably take it, both for denying scum and because it was cool.

...huh, I was going to ask WCD why Lekkit over raptor--my gut said that Lekkit was townier, between the two--and then I reread them.

I think if I was going to choose between those two, I would also vote Lekkit. Sure, raptor's said some scummy-sounding things (in particular that line of not wanting to look scummy) but at least raptor's shared opinions on things other than the setup.

It took until his most recent post for Lekkit to share an opinion about another player in this thread. I'm not exaggerating.

vote: Lekkit

This post seems fine, although...

A mistake. She did not think Lekkit and raptor were scummy at the time, she thought they were lurking. Replace the relevant sentence of mine above with

"Lekkit and raptor are lurking, I'll vote Lekkit"

Later on she seems to accuse WCD of doing basically the same as she did (and in fact was basically agreeing with WCD when she did so).
Now obviously there's more to her case on WCD than this: she points out that she started the raptor wagon while WCD was the L-1 position. But basically her case on WCD is that she preferred Lekkit over mail-mi and MiX over raptor, as well as some "weird vibes". Never mind that we don't know the alignments of Lekkit or MiX and that there's a strong possibility that mail-mi and raptor don't have any more teammates.

If we are playing multi-ball, basing cases around interactions with the other scum seems likely to be something scum would go for.

MailMi and Mix are both L-4

Ash, Glooble, Cayvie, Jim, EFHW, And Scola, I believe that you guys should probably start consolidating votes now.

sounds like an invitation to me!

vote: raptor

for srs im getting such bad vibes off this guy; he lurks his way thru the majority of day 1 and then comes around at the end to try to take a leadership role in the lynch.

I don't know about this one. Sure, protocol might indicate that the more active players are the ones who get to tell people what to do, but is breaking this particularly scummy? The last thing she said about them specifically was that he said some scummy things (referencing what I assume was that joke about jumping off a bridge), but at least he has contributed. Not exactly bad vibes.

(Obviously raptor was in fact scum, but that's not necessarily relevant.)

[...district partners analysis...]

vote: mail-mi

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

Granted this was early in the Day so there wasn't that much behind the vote, but "this theory was correct in one case so it must be correct in another case" seems hardly a case in itself (and yes this is very different from the item guessing debate). What it does do is continue cayvie's narrative of her being a strong Townie who is catching all the Mafia.

got around to rereading scolapasta, and basically everything i said about Didds applies to pasta too. Right down to the "mail-mi or MiX? I vote MiX"

I should be around for some part of tonight. Leaning to Mix over Mail-mi (between those two).

most damning may be this post

Right now:

Preferred lynches: raptor, wcd, scolapasta, e, lalight, mail-mi
Neutral-ish: lekkit, jimmm, glooble, Ash, adk
Would rather not lynch: mix, faust, shraeye, EFHW
Will not lynch: cayvie

PPE, of course, the fact that 2 people I distrust are voting for lalight makes me less suspicious of him

So... my list is almost opposite of yours!

Preferred lynches: faust, shraeye,, ash, lalight, mail-mi, mix
Neutral-ish: lekkit, glooble, e, adk, raptor
Would rather not lynch:, wcd, EFHW, cayvie, jimmm
Will not lynch: scolapasta

I don't specifically remember what made me put lalight, mail-mi, mix in the first group, so they might be more neutral.

Also interesting to note that my Would rather not lynch is all people I've played codenames with. Hmm....

where he includes mail-mi in the preferred lynches. and yet i believe he votes for and/or makes an argument against every other preferred lynch at some time in day 1, but never a specific one about mail-mi.

290: vote & reasons for shraeye
316: reasons for ash & mentions faust & LL
349: reasons for shraeye & faust
601: vote & reasons for Ashersky
986: vote MiX

yeahhhhhh, he includes mail-mi in his "preferred lynches" but never mentions him again except to say he's voting for someone else instead. thaaat's not a good sign. vote: scolapasta

Again, basing her entire case around interactions with Mafia. I don't think scola's post is damning at all. If they were scum together, then putting mail-mi in his preferred lynch tier was a very deliberate choice. Is the argument that he then forgot that he was going to semi-bus his partner?
Also, his mentioning of faust and LaLight is not terribly substantial. In #316 he simply says "maybe faust or LaLight" but never follows up on it, and in #349 he references shraeye and faust as being his "main accusers" in the context of round claiming.


In summary, I find many of cayvie's cases and reasons to vote for people just don't hold water. Since the flip of two Mafia members, her scumhunting seems to be purely based around interactions with Mafia, which is a great way to mislead and come up with reads if she's a member of a different scum faction. And given that our claimed Vig has said he didn't kill mail-mi, it seems very likely that there is another faction.

Aside from what I've mentioned here, I think cayvie has played an excellent game (as Town or scum) and most people find her Towny, so I'm not expecting to get much agreement here. However in putting this together I've convinced myself that I may very well be onto something.

Vote: cayvie. If, as I expect, this doesn't go anywhere, I'll make sure to spend more time on more likely lynch candidates before deadline.

[cayvie]

whee! hi jimmmmmm

i would definitely agree that some of my votes have not been for the strongest reasons. especially my ash vote, he himself talked me out of that one, basically. i definitely fall victim to pattern recognition bias; i see a potential scum narrative for a behavior and then i decide THAT MUST BE WHAT IS GOING ON. for better or worse, i'm also pretty easy to talk out of that train of thought, i think!

re: scolapasta. i may not have made my case in a very compelling fashion, but i still hold to it. basically, most of scola's posts read to me like someone trying to say the right thing (presumably, to not get pegged as scum). and then his post i quoted reads differently, like someone who's found something he can argue genuinely and passionately without having to worry that he might say the wrong thing--because he's right and the other person is wrong, no matter who scum is. it's an exciting feeling, and one i've definitely experienced before as scum. does that make sense?

and well I bid on the bow and arrow because i wanted to be katniss, so there. didn't get it, obviously. nyah.

i think you're being a little unfair to my partner reads theory! i made it before i knew any alignments, and then 2 scum flips went along with it, surely that's at least a little bit of evidence that it's onto something.

idk what you want me to do regarding basing reads on voting record and known flips. all we have is mafia flips! that's the new info! how is that misleading? i feel like that's the best public info we've got to analyze with. maybe my analysis is bad (it almost certainly is!) but i'm not sure what else i'm supposed to be using.

[Jimmmmm]

idk what you want me to do regarding basing reads on voting record and known flips. all we have is mafia flips! that's the new info! how is that misleading? i feel like that's the best public info we've got to analyze with. maybe my analysis is bad (it almost certainly is!) but i'm not sure what else i'm supposed to be using.

Partner interactions is one part of scumhunting, but there's also everything else; everything you would use on Days when there are no flipped scum. The evidence seems to me to suggest that there's a good chance that there are no more Mafia, which would render partner interactions useless. Some of us know (or at least have enough information to guess) whether there are any more Mafia, and a separate scum team would do well to have the Town believe that there are.

[faust]

idk what you want me to do regarding basing reads on voting record and known flips. all we have is mafia flips! that's the new info! how is that misleading? i feel like that's the best public info we've got to analyze with. maybe my analysis is bad (it almost certainly is!) but i'm not sure what else i'm supposed to be using.

Partner interactions is one part of scumhunting, but there's also everything else; everything you would use on Days when there are no flipped scum. The evidence seems to me to suggest that there's a good chance that there are no more Mafia, which would render partner interactions useless. Some of us know (or at least have enough information to guess) whether there are any more Mafia, and a separate scum team would do well to have the Town believe that there are.

What evidence? That Raptor used a singular? Because I can tell you that it doesn't make any sense from a game design perspective.

[Jimmmmm]

What evidence? That Raptor used a singular? Because I can tell you that it doesn't make any sense from a game design perspective.

That's not evidence. I mean the fact that mail-mi died, and e says it wasn't him. As far as I can tell, that means there are three possibilities:

1) There are two killing items (or e is lying and doesn't have a killing item).
2) Some kind of busdriving shenanigans.
3) We have a third party (SK or second scum team).

1 and 2 don't seem all that likely to me, and while a Serial Killer is definitely possible (which still means there is non-Mafia scum to find), I don't know that we can say that it's particularly more likely than a second scum team. Am I missing something?

What doesn't make any sense from a game-design perspective?

[faust]

What evidence? That Raptor used a singular? Because I can tell you that it doesn't make any sense from a game design perspective.

That's not evidence. I mean the fact that mail-mi died, and e says it wasn't him. As far as I can tell, that means there are three possibilities:

1) There are two killing items (or e is lying and doesn't have a killing item).
2) Some kind of busdriving shenanigans.
3) We have a third party (SK or second scum team).

1 and 2 don't seem all that likely to me, and while a Serial Killer is definitely possible (which still means there is non-Mafia scum to find), I don't know that we can say that it's particularly more likely than a second scum team. Am I missing something?

What doesn't make any sense from a game-design perspective?

That's all fair, but none of it implies that there are no more mafia.

[Jimmmmm]

That's all fair, but none of it implies that there are no more mafia.

Sure, but it implies that it's probable there is non-Mafia scum and plausible that the majority of remaining scum are non-Mafia.

[faust]

That's all fair, but none of it implies that there are no more mafia.

Sure, but it implies that it's probable there is non-Mafia scum and plausible that the majority of remaining scum are non-Mafia.

True, but we have a lot of data to help us find those remaining Mafia, and not a lot to find other scum, so that's what we should focus on. Also, you specifcially said "there's a good chance that there are no more Mafia", are you retracting that statement?

[Jimmmmm]

That's all fair, but none of it implies that there are no more mafia.

Sure, but it implies that it's probable there is non-Mafia scum and plausible that the majority of remaining scum are non-Mafia.

True, but we have a lot of data to help us find those remaining Mafia, and not a lot to find other scum, so that's what we should focus on. Also, you specifcially said "there's a good chance that there are no more Mafia", are you retracting that statement?

Eh, after some more thought I realised 2-2 was probably too few scum for a multiball game this size. I think we may have seen 3-2 before, but it's probably not common.

Surely if there's any reasonable chance that there are 0-1 remaining Mafia, we cannot be basing cases purely on interactions (or lack thereof) with Mafia.

[faust]

That's all fair, but none of it implies that there are no more mafia.

Sure, but it implies that it's probable there is non-Mafia scum and plausible that the majority of remaining scum are non-Mafia.

True, but we have a lot of data to help us find those remaining Mafia, and not a lot to find other scum, so that's what we should focus on. Also, you specifcially said "there's a good chance that there are no more Mafia", are you retracting that statement?

Eh, after some more thought I realised 2-2 was probably too few scum for a multiball game this size. I think we may have seen 3-2 before, but it's probably not common.

Surely if there's any reasonable chance that there are 0-1 remaining Mafia, we cannot be basing cases purely on interactions (or lack thereof) with Mafia.

I think we can, and should.

I mean, sure there could be a third party, and there probably is. But not knowing what kind of third party it is makes it hard to look for them. Especially a Serial Killer is just extremely hard to find. Another scum team might have more incriminating interactions, but since we don't know it exists, we shouldn't base cases on their existence.

Also, completely eliminating a faction reduces the overall number of nightkills, giving us more time to find the other scum.

Third, if there is a SK I think it's reasonable to assume that there are 2 mafia left. I think this is the most likely scenario, since a SK seems to make a lot of sense in this setup, and mail-mi was a sort of SK-y kill.

[Glooble]

Vote: scolapasta

I don’t want to kill ash or faust today, I don’t see a new wagon having time to gain traction. Based on the votes he’s the most likely third mafia.

I agree with Jimmm that there’s a decent chance of 2/2 but faust is right that there’s still a not insignificant chance raptor and mail-mi have a partner out there, and we have a lot more to go on to find that person.

Especially given raptor’s going out of his way to imply he only had one partner. That makes me think it more likely he had more partners.

[ashersky]

I do think there's a good chance that the mafia kill is delayed via mail-mi's poison.  Maybe they had the option of one or the other (factional or poison).  Or maybe the factional kill was blocked/doc'ed, etc.

Just to say that going by number of kills, knowing a poisoner existed on N1, is not going to be conclusive.

[EFHW]

This doesn't follow.  The poison didn't increase the number of kills yet. It's not relevant to looking at why there was a non-mafia kill last night. Why is ash pretending to give advice?

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote Count 2.WCD

scolapasta (5): faust, ADK, WCD, Cayvie, Glooble
Ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, Shraeye
faust (2): MiX, LaLight
Cayvie (1): Jimmmmm


Not Voting (3):E!, Ashersky, Lekkit


With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time. (About 12 hours from now)

[shraeye]

I agree the schola is seeming towny

Agree with who?

[WestCoastDidds]

Hey Jimmmm, it’s good to see you! That’s some heavy lifting on cayvie. I appreciate the fresh eyes, but I’m not sure she’s getting enough credit for the raptor wagon. Her scumsensor was on point. Does t mean that she can’t be a third party, but I don’t think she’s Mafia after that.

Cayvie, good on you for the essential health care work. I hope you are taking good care, and that we’re providing some interesting distraction for you.

The raptor wagon went from 0 to lynched in 6 hours, so a new wagon isn’t impossible but would require some attentiveness than I think maybe we have today.

I feel like there are some folks playing under the radar right now. I just had to check to see if MiX was in this game. And I know Shraeye is busy, but still. E said he’d be back around, yeah?

[shraeye]

Jimmmm, can you summarize why you seem to fee unsure on cayvie, but still think it's worth a vote?  Or maybe I'm misinterpreting that you're feeling unsure on cayvie.  What gives?

[WestCoastDidds]

I agree the schola is seeming towny

Agree with who?

Sorry....it was Ash, the post right before mine.

[shraeye]

I feel like there are some folks playing under the radar right now. I just had to check to see if MiX was in this game. And I know Shraeye is busy, but still. E said he’d be back around, yeah?

Don't pretend you forgot me.


And cayvie driving a Raptor wagon from 0 to 6 WHEN another fairly viable alternative was Raptor's partner...does that change your calculus?

[WestCoastDidds]

I feel like there are some folks playing under the radar right now. I just had to check to see if MiX was in this game. And I know Shraeye is busy, but still. E said he’d be back around, yeah?

Don't pretend you forgot me.


And cayvie driving a Raptor wagon from 0 to 6 WHEN another fairly viable alternative was Raptor's partner...does that change your calculus?

No, no, you weren’t on the forgotten list. I was waiting for you to be unbusy!

So, cayvie would have had to have started the raptor wagon with the idea that it might pull some votes from mail-mi, and that we’d lynch MiX instead? Not that unlikely, I guess, but seems like a stretch.

[MiX]

I agree with faust that we should mafia hunt. The odds of there being no more mafia are low, whereas the PoE to find them is high. Unfortunately I haven't finished my VCA, and I doubt I will in time, so my vote will be...uninformed. Sorry in advance, distractions have multiplied and I no longer have 3 hours of my life where the only thing I can do is reread mafia games.

My vote on faust will stay but I do believe he was leading to be not-mafia due to yesterday's votes, when/if I find it I'll vote elsewhere. Don't expect my vote to be locked in!

Oh, and I don't see why cayvie's scum. Forgetting that you did the same thing you're accusing Didds of is a town trait, not a scum one. And those arguments sound about as wrong as town's: right for the wrong reasons.

[ashersky]

This doesn't follow.  The poison didn't increase the number of kills yet. It's not relevant to looking at why there was a non-mafia kill last night. Why is ash pretending to give advice?

What?

I am positing that the poison will increase the number of kills.  That is, that we had one kill on N1 does not preclude multi-ball.

I am not pretending to do anything.  Your post seems entirely too antagonistic, especially as literally no one else had such a negative reaction.

There was just a back-and-forth about the existence of more mafia, multiple scum teams, etc.  Some of those posts took into account that there was only one NK, that the claimed vig claimed not to be responsible, and that the target was mafia.  My reaction when reading was that no one seemed to be taking into account the poisoner role, which is not so common.  It could just have been forgotten, so I was reminding folks.

[MiX]

This doesn't follow.  The poison didn't increase the number of kills yet. It's not relevant to looking at why there was a non-mafia kill last night. Why is ash pretending to give advice?

What?

I am positing that the poison will increase the number of kills.  That is, that we had one kill on N1 does not preclude multi-ball.

I am not pretending to do anything.  Your post seems entirely too antagonistic, especially as literally no one else had such a negative reaction.

There was just a back-and-forth about the existence of more mafia, multiple scum teams, etc.  Some of those posts took into account that there was only one NK, that the claimed vig claimed not to be responsible, and that the target was mafia.  My reaction when reading was that no one seemed to be taking into account the poisoner role, which is not so common.  It could just have been forgotten, so I was reminding folks.

I don't get it. We don't need to know the number of kills to know if there's a third-party, just the fact that there's a NKd mafia tells us that, right? And that it wasn't claimed by anyone.

[cayvie]

This doesn't follow.  The poison didn't increase the number of kills yet. It's not relevant to looking at why there was a non-mafia kill last night. Why is ash pretending to give advice?

What?

I am positing that the poison will increase the number of kills.  That is, that we had one kill on N1 does not preclude multi-ball.

I am not pretending to do anything.  Your post seems entirely too antagonistic, especially as literally no one else had such a negative reaction.

There was just a back-and-forth about the existence of more mafia, multiple scum teams, etc.  Some of those posts took into account that there was only one NK, that the claimed vig claimed not to be responsible, and that the target was mafia.  My reaction when reading was that no one seemed to be taking into account the poisoner role, which is not so common.  It could just have been forgotten, so I was reminding folks.

I don't get it. We don't need to know the number of kills to know if there's a third-party, just the fact that there's a NKd mafia tells us that, right? And that it wasn't claimed by anyone.

i pretty much concur with MiX here; other explanations become vanishingly unlikely the longer we go with nobody claiming the kill.

[ashersky]

Thank you both for agreeing with me.

[Lekkit]

This doesn't follow.  The poison didn't increase the number of kills yet. It's not relevant to looking at why there was a non-mafia kill last night. Why is ash pretending to give advice?

What?

I am positing that the poison will increase the number of kills.  That is, that we had one kill on N1 does not preclude multi-ball.

I am not pretending to do anything.  Your post seems entirely too antagonistic, especially as literally no one else had such a negative reaction.

There was just a back-and-forth about the existence of more mafia, multiple scum teams, etc.  Some of those posts took into account that there was only one NK, that the claimed vig claimed not to be responsible, and that the target was mafia.  My reaction when reading was that no one seemed to be taking into account the poisoner role, which is not so common.  It could just have been forgotten, so I was reminding folks.

I don't get it. We don't need to know the number of kills to know if there's a third-party, just the fact that there's a NKd mafia tells us that, right? And that it wasn't claimed by anyone.

i pretty much concur with MiX here; other explanations become vanishingly unlikely the longer we go with nobody claiming the kill.

"Longer" meaning more in game days, right? Because I don't really see a reason why someone wouldn't claim it earlier today and change their mind. Other than perhaps being close to lynched.

[Lekkit]

I'm hoping to be somewhat around for the next couple of hours, but I'll put a vote down.

Vote: scolapasta

[ashersky]

I'll be back before deadline.

[WestCoastDidds]

This doesn't follow.  The poison didn't increase the number of kills yet. It's not relevant to looking at why there was a non-mafia kill last night. Why is ash pretending to give advice?

What?

I am positing that the poison will increase the number of kills.  That is, that we had one kill on N1 does not preclude multi-ball.

I am not pretending to do anything.  Your post seems entirely too antagonistic, especially as literally no one else had such a negative reaction.

There was just a back-and-forth about the existence of more mafia, multiple scum teams, etc.  Some of those posts took into account that there was only one NK, that the claimed vig claimed not to be responsible, and that the target was mafia.  My reaction when reading was that no one seemed to be taking into account the poisoner role, which is not so common.  It could just have been forgotten, so I was reminding folks.

This

[shraeye]

So what are your conclusions from the "this"ing, Didds?  What should my conclusions be?

[EFHW]

Other people's reactions are irrelevant.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.7:

scolapasta (6): faust, ADK, WCD, Cayvie, Glooble, Lekkit (L-2)
Ashersky (3): EFHW, scolapasta, Shraeye
faust (2): MiX, LaLight
Cayvie (1): Jimmm

Not Voting (2): E!, Ashersky


With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time. That is less than 6 hours from now!

[WestCoastDidds]

So what are your conclusions from the "this"ing, Didds?  What should my conclusions be?

EFHW seems to have a more aggressive posture than usual.  Both with ashersky and then here

Other people's reactions are irrelevant.

I am not sure I have any big conclusions, but I didn't want to lose it in the event that I don't die...or in the event that I do.

[scolapasta]

If I am to be lynched, please don't finish me off until I have a chance (after work hours, before deadline) to type a few things!

[2.71828.....]

If I am to be lynched, please don't finish me off until I have a chance (after work hours, before deadline) to type a few things!

It you can summarize it now?

[2.71828.....]

Went back and read d2.

Well, skimmed more like it. There were some interesting arguments and such.

In the end, I don't think anything D2 movers the needle from where I was leaning after the flips, which is on pasta.

I may fall asleep and not wake up until the day is over, so

Vote: scolapasta

L-1

Time to say what you have on your mind

[scolapasta]

If I am to be lynched, please don't finish me off until I have a chance (after work hours, before deadline) to type a few things!

It you can summarize it now?

Not so much, on work call.

[Glooble]

Other people's reactions are irrelevant.

I've been watching a lot of Voyager during this quarantine, and I definitely heard this in 7 of 9's voice.

[scolapasta]

OK, so I'm at L-1, pretty sure Ash is about to hammer me, unless someone unvotes first.

Don't see what I can do to change anyone's mind - though I'll point out that Shraeye, my District mate, who seemed so sure I was scum, hasn't voted for me. Not sure if that means he no longer thinks I'm scum, but I suggest we ask him and wait to see what he says?

Without that the only "evidence" against me is:
• I didn't vote for either raptor or mail-mi on D1. Yes, they ended up both being mafia, but this was D1 folks. I mean, maybe it's just my being a rookie, but I think we just got lucky - I don't see a lot of info that supports are being able to "know" they were scum.

• my actual voting was for Shraeye, because OMGUS, and it made no sense to me (still doesn't), and ash, who has been suspect by many others. I don't think that's a bad track record.

• oh and apparently I sounded like I was trying to hard to sound like town. Or maybe, wild idea, I said those things, because I am town??

I will say my shraeye being town theory - that was purely to help the team. I don't think that thinking he is town for that reasoning adds any evidence to my not being town. i.e. there was not self serving in putting that theory out. I am not saying that now as a defense. Just for y'all to consider if/when I'm gone.

Last thing here: the one other thing I did say somewhere was that I had a role that was probably better for scum, and that I don't know how to sue effectively. In retrospect, I feel like that helped put a target on my back, as there's less reason to keep me around. Why would I do that?

So here's my role: 2-shot Role Blocker. Do you agree that better for scum? (i.e. I had on idea who to try to block N1, so did not)
. If I do live tonight, and we have two strong (other than me!) suspects, we could lynch one and I block the other.

[scolapasta]

Oh, and I'm about to step out for a quick walk. If I'm still around when I get back and you want me to answer some other questions, let me know. (I still may or may not, but it seems to me it's probably helpful to answer if it helps save me)

[shraeye]

Oh, when you got to L-1 I was very tempted to just hammer away.  But I thought I'd listen to your words (here or in the QT) first.  Just read them, haven't mentally processed yet.

[scolapasta]

OK, walking out the door now - it'll be fun to see if I'm still here when I get back!

@shraeye, if you have any QT questions, feel free to ask too.

[A Drowned Kernel]

OK, so I'm at L-1, pretty sure Ash is about to hammer me, unless someone unvotes first.

Don't see what I can do to change anyone's mind - though I'll point out that Shraeye, my District mate, who seemed so sure I was scum, hasn't voted for me. Not sure if that means he no longer thinks I'm scum, but I suggest we ask him and wait to see what he says?

Without that the only "evidence" against me is:
• I didn't vote for either raptor or mail-mi on D1. Yes, they ended up both being mafia, but this was D1 folks. I mean, maybe it's just my being a rookie, but I think we just got lucky - I don't see a lot of info that supports are being able to "know" they were scum.

• my actual voting was for Shraeye, because OMGUS, and it made no sense to me (still doesn't), and ash, who has been suspect by many others. I don't think that's a bad track record.

• oh and apparently I sounded like I was trying to hard to sound like town. Or maybe, wild idea, I said those things, because I am town??

I will say my shraeye being town theory - that was purely to help the team. I don't think that thinking he is town for that reasoning adds any evidence to my not being town. i.e. there was not self serving in putting that theory out. I am not saying that now as a defense. Just for y'all to consider if/when I'm gone.

Last thing here: the one other thing I did say somewhere was that I had a role that was probably better for scum, and that I don't know how to sue effectively. In retrospect, I feel like that helped put a target on my back, as there's less reason to keep me around. Why would I do that?

So here's my role: 2-shot Role Blocker. Do you agree that better for scum? (i.e. I had on idea who to try to block N1, so did not)
. If I do live tonight, and we have two strong (other than me!) suspects, we could lynch one and I block the other.

I would not want to lynch faust or ash over you. Who would be your top candidate after them?

[MiX]

Seems town.

Is there a point in rereading scola or is this like the only non-ash non-faust lynch we can do today?

[scolapasta]

OK, so I'm at L-1, pretty sure Ash is about to hammer me, unless someone unvotes first.

Don't see what I can do to change anyone's mind - though I'll point out that Shraeye, my District mate, who seemed so sure I was scum, hasn't voted for me. Not sure if that means he no longer thinks I'm scum, but I suggest we ask him and wait to see what he says?

Without that the only "evidence" against me is:
• I didn't vote for either raptor or mail-mi on D1. Yes, they ended up both being mafia, but this was D1 folks. I mean, maybe it's just my being a rookie, but I think we just got lucky - I don't see a lot of info that supports are being able to "know" they were scum.

• my actual voting was for Shraeye, because OMGUS, and it made no sense to me (still doesn't), and ash, who has been suspect by many others. I don't think that's a bad track record.

• oh and apparently I sounded like I was trying to hard to sound like town. Or maybe, wild idea, I said those things, because I am town??

I will say my shraeye being town theory - that was purely to help the team. I don't think that thinking he is town for that reasoning adds any evidence to my not being town. i.e. there was not self serving in putting that theory out. I am not saying that now as a defense. Just for y'all to consider if/when I'm gone.

Last thing here: the one other thing I did say somewhere was that I had a role that was probably better for scum, and that I don't know how to sue effectively. In retrospect, I feel like that helped put a target on my back, as there's less reason to keep me around. Why would I do that?

So here's my role: 2-shot Role Blocker. Do you agree that better for scum? (i.e. I had on idea who to try to block N1, so did not)
. If I do live tonight, and we have two strong (other than me!) suspects, we could lynch one and I block the other.

I would not want to lynch faust or ash over you. Who would be your top candidate after them?

After ash and faust?

My strongest town reads are Jimmmm, WCD, EFHW, so not them.

I still have my suspicions about MiX, and cayvie, and e. probably in that order. I might also through Lekkit in there, but that's mostly because I think I haven't had any read on them.

[scolapasta]

After ash and faust?

My strongest town reads are Jimmmm, WCD, EFHW, so not them.

I still have my suspicions about MiX, and cayvie, and e. probably in that order. I might also through Lekkit in there, but that's mostly because I think I haven't had any read on them.

OK, this is funny, I went back to see Lekkit's most recent post and found this:
"People I definately won't want to lynch is e, cayvie and MiX."

which is the exact opposite of what I just said!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Seems town.

Is there a point in rereading scola or is this like the only non-ash non-faust lynch we can do today?

Anything is possible if you believe in yourself

[EFHW]

Other people's reactions are irrelevant.

I've been watching a lot of Voyager during this quarantine, and I definitely heard this in 7 of 9's voice.

You have been assimilated.

I've been watching Deep Space Nine.

[ashersky]

I’m here until deadline.  Any reason to wait?

[WestCoastDidds]

Scola seems real town after the last page....

But I am pretty sure we can’t manage another lynch at this point

[Jimmmmm]

Scola seems real town after the last page....

But I am pretty sure we can’t manage another lynch at this point

Anyone in mind? I could probably be convinced of anyone except you, ADK or e.

[Jimmmmm]

ash was right; I'd prefer him over scola or faust at this point.

Vote: ash

[scolapasta]

Scola seems real town after the last page....

But I am pretty sure we can’t manage another lynch at this point

Thanks - I fear it may be too late.

Other than claiming my role, I'm not really sure what I said differently in this post than all my other posts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jimmmmm]

Hey Jimmmm, it’s good to see you! That’s some heavy lifting on cayvie. I appreciate the fresh eyes, but I’m not sure she’s getting enough credit for the raptor wagon. Her scumsensor was on point. Does t mean that she can’t be a third party, but I don’t think she’s Mafia after that.

I tend to agree; my argument is that she's non-Mafia scum pushing a "We're only looking for Mafia" narrative to help her team/self avoid detection.

[scolapasta]

Newbie question #1,047:

If I get lynched and town wins*, do I still notch a win? Or only if I'm still alive at the end.

* and I turn out to be town, like I claim

[WestCoastDidds]

Newbie question #1,047:

If I get lynched and town wins*, do I still notch a win? Or only if I'm still alive at the end.

* and I turn out to be town, like I claim

If you are part of the winning faction, you win

[Glooble]

Newbie question #1,047:

If I get lynched and town wins*, do I still notch a win? Or only if I'm still alive at the end.

* and I turn out to be town, like I claim

You still win.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmm, can you summarize why you seem to fee unsure on cayvie, but still think it's worth a vote?  Or maybe I'm misinterpreting that you're feeling unsure on cayvie.  What gives?

I thought cayvie was scummier when I finished the post than when I started it, so there's that. Otherwise, short of mod-confirmation I don't think I've ever been sure about anyone's alignment. I think she has a better chance of being scum than the current wagons, and I guess that's more or less the definition of being worth a vote.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.8:

scolapasta (7): faust, ADK, WCD, Cayvie, Glooble, Lekkit, E! (L-1)
Ashersky (4): EFHW, scolapasta, Shraeye, Jimmm
faust (2): MiX, LaLight

Not Voting (1): Ashersky


With 14 alive, takes 8 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is April 2nd at 9:12pm Forum Time. That is just 1 hour!

[WestCoastDidds]

Glooble, still feeling Scola?

[LaLight]

I am here

[LaLight]

I of course am willing to hammer scola. I don't want to shift to ash

[scolapasta]

Newbie question #1,047:

If I get lynched and town wins*, do I still notch a win? Or only if I'm still alive at the end.

* and I turn out to be town, like I claim

If you are part of the winning faction, you win

Well, at least there's that.

I'm curious of people voting for me, how many think I'm still scum vs. it'd still be better to take a chance a lynch someone than no lynch (which I generally agree - no lynch is usually bad).

[WestCoastDidds]

Well, Scola, I’ll say that if you turn out to be scum, I owe you a beer. I am fooled. You seem super town to me, just awfully late in the day.

[MiX]

Changing to ash is acceptable, but I would sooner hammer scola.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m looking at the wagon. I’m most itchy about Glooble and Lekkit

[scolapasta]

Well, Scola, I’ll say that if you turn out to be scum, I owe you a beer. I am fooled. You seem super town to me, just awfully late in the day.

Thanks. Just waiting out seemingly inevitable. Sad I never got to block anyone.

[ashersky]

30 minutes to go.  Will hammer.

[ashersky]

vote: scolapasta

[ashersky]

If you (anyone) are around, post reads lists -- helpful for all in case you aren't around tomorrow.

faust is not town-aligned.
Top suspects after that are EFHW, Jimmmm, and MiX.
Top town reads at LL, ADK, 2.7.

[scolapasta]

So, now, I'm gone, but can still post?

[scolapasta]

That is until, thread is locked or the flip happens?

[ashersky]

So, now, I'm gone, but can still post?

Until the game thread is locked, yes.

[ashersky]

So, now, I'm gone, but can still post?

Until the game thread is locked, yes.

If you are scum, you would typically use this time to troll as much as possible, throw out various things that are meant to confuse town, etc.

[ashersky]

As town, claim whatever knowledge you have that would help the rest of us win.  Give your best reads, etc.

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW, MiX, Jim, Lekkit  not so towny

Faust, Ash, Glooble, lalight hard for me to tell

E, ADK, cavyie, Shraeye are towny

[MiX]

Town: now why should I tell you

Town and Towny in no particular order: ADK, cayvie, E, EFHW, Glooble

Null: Jimmmmm, shraeye, Didds, LaLight

Scummy: Scola, ash, Lekkit

Scum: faust

Look out for Lekkit if I'm gone.

[scolapasta]

Pre lynch: I was town
Post lynch: am still town

I think I gave all my info in that last long post. Not sure what else to add.

I suspect ash and mix the most; and trust WCD and Jimmmm.

I'd also look at cayvie.

But none of this is knowledge, just speculations.

[WestCoastDidds]

Scola, keep playing with us, okay? It’s been a pleasure!

[scolapasta]

And good luck during these crazy times. I'll see hopefully most of you in Roshar!

[Galzria]

Twilight has begun. Find shelter, and stay safe, Tributes. May the odds be ever in your favor.

[ashersky]

Scola, keep playing with us, okay? It’s been a pleasure!

[ashersky]

Twilight announcement makes me feel like Twilight powers exist.  Did someone say this at the end of D1?

[MiX]

Twilight announcement makes me feel like Twilight powers exist.  Did someone say this at the end of D1?

I hope so. There's no way faust would miss this, and there's also other players in the game.

[WestCoastDidds]

Twilight announcement makes me feel like Twilight powers exist.  Did someone say this at the end of D1?

We chatted about it briefly....Mail-mi was the one who pointed it out and said something about the possibility of a governor(if I remember correctly)

[cayvie]

I'm suspicious of lekkit independent of flips. Lalight has gone a long way toward gaining my trust today. I trust shraeye more than I did at the start of day, and faust less.

I like a couple glooble posts. I can't read mix. I'm easily frustrated by Ash. EFHW, I feel slightly town.

I really liked jimmm's analysis of me. I got nothing on E.

[cayvie]

I still get weird vibes from didds but I trust adk for some reason.

[Swowl]

*BOOM*
a cannon shoots through the sky as yet another Tribute has been eliminated from the Arena...




scolapasta has been lynched. They were the Town Aligned 2-Shot Role Blocker.

As their brutalized deathless body was plucked into the sky by a giant crane of one of the Capitol ships... a Jabberjay flew free from one of their pockets.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.Final:

scolapasta (8): faust, ADK, WCD, Cayvie, Glooble, Lekkit, E!, Ashersky
Ashersky (4): EFHW, scolapasta, Shraeye, Jimmm
faust (2): MiX, LaLight

Not Voting (0):


With 14 alive, it took 8 players to lynch.
Night begins now and ends on Saturday, March 4th at 9:15pm Forum Time.




THREAD LOCKED!

[Swowl]

Cayvie has died at night. They were Cinna, the Town Aligned Master of Disguise.

As they were being hauled away, from their clenched hand, their prized possession.. a make up kit, was seen falling to the ground.

[Swowl]

Shraeye has died at night. They were Glimmer, the Town Aligned 2-Shot Re Director.

As they were being hauled away, from their clenched hand, their prized possession.. a piece of jewelry, was seen falling to the ground.

[Swowl]

DAY 3 STARTS NOW!

[Swowl]

Vote Count 3.0:

Not Voting (11): Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, faust, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, ADK, Lekkit

With 11 alive, takes 6 players to lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is April 11th at 10:50pm Forum Time.

[WestCoastDidds]

Swan, scholapasta is on the not voting list. Is he still dead?

[EFHW]

I'm so bummed! cayvie was a fun district partner.

[Swowl]

Swan, scholapasta is on the not voting list. Is he still dead?

Fixed

[ashersky]

There's MM's poison kill.

2.7, did you shoot?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 3.0:

Not Voting (11): Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, faust, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, ADK, Lekkit

With 11 alive, takes 6 players to lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is April 2nd at 10:50pm Forum Time.

Also, deadline was three days ago?  (I assume you meant to update it.)

[Swowl]

Vote Count 3.0:

Not Voting (11): Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, faust, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, ADK, Lekkit

With 11 alive, takes 6 players to lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is April 2nd at 10:50pm Forum Time.

Also, deadline was three days ago?  (I assume you meant to update it.)

Also fixed quarantine got me going bonkers

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm going to assume that shraeye would have claimed if he had redirected onto mail-mi

[faust]

I'm going to assume that shraeye would have claimed if he had redirected onto mail-mi

Maybe. It's worth looking for breadcrumbs though. So far, mail-mi's death is the only indication of multiple scum teams.

[2.71828.....]

There's MM's poison kill.

2.7, did you shoot?

Nope. Saving it for the opportune moment

[faust]

2.7, did you shoot?

What are you asking that for?

[faust]

Vote: Lekkit

[faust]

I'm going to assume that shraeye would have claimed if he had redirected onto mail-mi

Maybe. It's worth looking for breadcrumbs though. So far, mail-mi's death is the only indication of multiple scum teams.

Okay,I went back and looked at shraeye's first couple of D2 posts; he doesn't comment on the mail-mi death.

[faust]

If shraeye was poisoned N1 and targeted with a nightkill N2, would the death message still say "killed by poison"?

[Swowl]

If shraeye was poisoned N1 and targeted with a nightkill N2, would the death message still say "killed by poison"?

Yes

[Swowl]

edit history on Faust’s previous post was me. Phone posting and hit modify instead of quote.

[2.71828.....]

Can you change the title to Day 3?

[ashersky]

2.7, did you shoot?

What are you asking that for?

Seems important to figuring out what's up.

[Swowl]

Can you change the title to Day 3?

No it shall Remain day 2 for the rest of days!
fixed thanks.

[faust]

2.7, did you shoot?

What are you asking that for?

Seems important to figuring out what's up.

And how did the information help you figure it out?

[Jimmmmm]

It seems reasonable to want to know whether we're just looking for Mafia.

[Lekkit]

Activate Hair Bow

Have I got some news for you!

[Lekkit]

ADK, do you know WCD's role?

[Jimmmmm]

Activate Hair Bow

Have I got some news for you!

Whatever you're doing, is it too late to change your mind?

[Lekkit]

Don't think so.

[Lekkit]

It's all good, though.

[Jimmmmm]

Mind if I ask what you're doing, and how it relates to WCD and ADK? I might have reason to ask you to do something different if you can.

[Lekkit]

I'm activating the hair bow. The mods will confirm my alignment.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh, it's an IC thing? I thought it was related to your question. Never mind.

[Lekkit]

All will be revealed soon.

[LaLight]

I'm going to claim.

Firstly D2 present I got was an open neighbourhood with a person of my choice for the end of the Day and it was cayvie. Inbefore you say that this is a convenient claim, ash knows that and can confirm. Bummer she died, because I shared results with her (and ash) so if I am dead today they would come up and back each other up.

Well, I am alive.

N1 I targeted MiX and saw two names: mail-mi and Lekkit. Our collective thought was that MiX is some kind of cop who targeted Lekkit and got guilty result. MiX started the day with breadcrumb and ended as well. Also we thought that he was poisoned by mail-mi, so I was going to wait till toDay to see. Because the other opportunity is that MiX is a third party. he killed mail-mi and he has some kind of other power that he used on Lekkit, and he softclaims the second one. It's really not probable he is a vig, because I think there is only one vig and that the vig would confirm killing mail-mi. Also if Lekkit is activated IC, no way he could target MiX. So MiX has two powers, one of which should be factional kill. That said:

vote: MiX

Also N2 seems like I was roleblocked

[Jimmmmm]

Are you saying you're a Tracker?

[Lekkit]

Are you saying you're a Tracker?

Motion Detector.

[Lekkit]

Also. I'm pretty sure MiX targeted me n1.

[Jimmmmm]

Are you saying you're a Tracker?

Oh right. So your result was that mail-mi and Lekkit each targeted and/or was targeted by MiX?

[2.71828.....]

Are you saying you're a Tracker?

Oh right. So your result was that mail-mi and Lekkit each targeted and/or was targeted by MiX?

That is what it looks like to me.

Given what Lekkit is saying I am in a "wait and see" mode until the mods say something about Lekkit's little request.

But I get where the suspicion on MiX is coming from

[LaLight]

Are you saying you're a Tracker?

i already explained my role. I target a person and see the list of names who eithertargeted them or was targeted by them. i don't know who did who

[LaLight]

Are you saying you're a Tracker?

Oh right. So your result was that mail-mi and Lekkit each targeted and/or was targeted by MiX?

yes

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK does know my role

Last night I made cayvie lynchproof today. wasted shot, alas

[Lekkit]

ADK does know my role

Last night I made cayvie lynchproof today. wasted shot, alas

Why cayvie?

[EFHW]

ADK does know my role

Last night I made cayvie lynchproof today. wasted shot, alas

There's a scum role, for sure. Not saying you're scum, necessarily.  Just if you are town, we can be sure they didn't have different uses of the items for town and scum.

Kind of hard to see how town could use that. Very towny people are unlikely to get lynched, while you can't be certain enough of nontowny people to want to make them unlynchable.

[EFHW]

Also, sometimes it's better for the towny person to be lynched anyway,  since at least we can use the flip for information. Unplanned no lynches aren't great.

Didds, was cayvie going to find out she was unlynchable?

[MiX]

Hmm...hello everyone. I see there's a motion detector result on me?

I'll claim. I'm Beete, the 1-shot inventor 1-shot modified PGO and I have the Engineering kit.

So I can give someone 1 of the remaining 4 items, which I gave to Lekkit, and I can also trigger my electric trap, which kills anyone who tries to kill me instead of myself. I used it N1 because I had a scumread on Lekkit and I thought it would be very convenient of them to claim ICifier in the neighborhood, as they could just kill me. Apparently I killed mail-mi with it, good job me.

So, uh, sorry for lying to you Lekkit. Me mentioning PGO a bunch was a way to make you think I also had it so that I could survive this day as well. And it worked, but given you used your Hair Bow, I guess my read was wrong...

All of this implies LaLight's town, Lekkit is town, mail-mi shot me and poisoned, and there doesn't need to be third-party. In fact, we have all kills accounted for.

And now for the rest of the game!

[MiX]

EBWOP: Beetee, not Beete. Also should I claim the items that are left? Not sure if that's useful...

[MiX]

ADK does know my role

Last night I made cayvie lynchproof today. wasted shot, alas

(Obligatory "why did you claim Didds" remark)

I don't understand why you would ever use this on anyone other than yourself. As in, if you can't use it on yourself, why use it at all?

ADK does know my role

Last night I made cayvie lynchproof today. wasted shot, alas

There's a scum role, for sure. Not saying you're scum, necessarily.  Just if you are town, we can be sure they didn't have different uses of the items for town and scum.

Kind of hard to see how town could use that. Very towny people are unlikely to get lynched, while you can't be certain enough of nontowny people to want to make them unlynchable.

There's a bunch of scum roles, we can't say anything based on someone's PR.

What this is telling me is that Didds is...Didds! Very interesting, will keep note.

[Lekkit]

Allright. So now that's all out there. The thing I got from MiX nq1 is the Camera. So I also became a watcher. I watched cayvie last night. At least one of you who claimed today is lying.

[Lekkit]

MiX being one of them.

[EFHW]

The plot thickens!

[MiX]

Allright. So now that's all out there. The thing I got from MiX nq1 is the Camera. So I also became a watcher. I watched cayvie last night. At least one of you who claimed today is lying.

And you don't know who's lying? If they claimed, wouldn't you know?

MiX being one of them.

What?? How is that even possible? I didn't even target anyone...

[faust]

ADK does know my role

Last night I made cayvie lynchproof today. wasted shot, alas

There's a scum role, for sure. Not saying you're scum, necessarily.  Just if you are town, we can be sure they didn't have different uses of the items for town and scum.

Well, shraeye flipped Redirector, so that seems pretty clear already.

[faust]

Vote: MiX

[WestCoastDidds]

In reply to MiX, EFHW, and Lekkit-

I couldn’t use it on my self.

She would know she was unlynchable

I chose her, over not using it all, because I thought she was town, I know she is super smart, and that in learning she was unlynchable she would be more free to swing for the fences.

[Lekkit]

Allright. So now that's all out there. The thing I got from MiX nq1 is the Camera. So I also became a watcher. I watched cayvie last night. At least one of you who claimed today is lying.

And you don't know who's lying? If they claimed, wouldn't you know?

MiX being one of them.

What?? How is that even possible? I didn't even target anyone...

I know the claims don't add up.

[Lekkit]

Yours specifically.

[Lekkit]

Since you targeted cayvie last night.

[faust]

I chose her, over not using it all, because I thought she was town, I know she is super smart, and that in learning she was unlynchable she would be more free to swing for the fences.

So you wouldn't have been able to use it anymore if you didn't use it tonight? Or can you use it every night?

[faust]

Well, MiX killed two people, cool. Can we lynch him now?

[MiX]

Well, MiX killed two people, cool. Can we lynch him now?

If Lekkit is IC'd, I honestly have no idea how she could've gotten that result, so might as well. Otherwise lynch Lekkit.

I'm not really seeing a third option here...

Vote: Lekkit

[Lekkit]

Well, MiX killed two people, cool. Can we lynch him now?

There is a way in which MiX isn't guilty.

[Lekkit]

However that is VERY unlikely.

[MiX]

Well, MiX killed two people, cool. Can we lynch him now?

There is a way in which MiX isn't guilty.

Which? I'm not seeing it.

[Lekkit]

And the main reason fo why it isn't true is LaLight being alive after targeting the claimed PGO.

[Lekkit]

I'll explain when I'm on a computer

[WestCoastDidds]

I chose her, over not using it all, because I thought she was town, I know she is super smart, and that in learning she was unlynchable she would be more free to swing for the fences.

So you wouldn't have been able to use it anymore if you didn't use it tonight? Or can you use it every night?

I was responding to this part of MiX’s question:

ADK does know my role

Last night I made cayvie lynchproof today. wasted shot, alas

(Obligatory "why did you claim Didds" remark)

I don't understand why you would ever use this on anyone other than yourself. As in, if you can't use it on yourself, why use it at all?

I used it on her over not using it at all last night.  (I’m not going to answer the rest of your question for now)

[Lekkit]

Well, MiX killed two people, cool. Can we lynch him now?

There is a way in which MiX isn't guilty.

Which? I'm not seeing it.

Are you admitting to being scum?

[MiX]

Well, MiX killed two people, cool. Can we lynch him now?

There is a way in which MiX isn't guilty.

Which? I'm not seeing it.

Are you admitting to being scum?

From your perspective, I mean. You can be lying scum, but I don't think that's the way you saw, right?

[Lekkit]

Before we lynch anyone I kind of want to get this theory out.

[LaLight]

And the main reason fo why it isn't true is LaLight being alive after targeting the claimed PGO.

well, as MiX said his PGO kills everyone who tries to kill himwhich i obviously didn't do

[Lekkit]

Guess I didn't read it well enough.

[Lekkit]

Soon at my computer.

[Glooble]

vote: MiX

Don’t see much reason to wait. MiX’s claim is an excellent attempt at explaining the results, but “MiX is scum” just seems overwhelmingly more likely to me.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, do you know WCD's role?

I know what she claimed, why?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I plan on voting for mix but I do want the didds thing resolved

[A Drowned Kernel]

I reread and I missed didds claiming

Let me go check a timestamp

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh mix claimed he didn't target anyone

Well vote: mix

[Lekkit]

Allright, so here's the theory:

Everyone's claims are actually true. Theoretically, WCD's doesn't matter here.

mail-mi and LaLight targeted MiX n1. MiX targeted me LaLight got the results back. mail-mi died. I got the camera.

N2, however, things get interesting. I targeted cayvie with the camera, turns out WCD and MiX both targeted cayvie. What if someone is able to manipulate the name people see when they get your name back? I would assume this role is probably tied to the Wig item.

There's a couple of things that makes this theory don't seem super likely. For starters, the imposter role seems kinda weird. And it's also pretty much only good for scum or people who manage to get additional items. The second thing is that when I recieved the camera. I specifically got an instruction that I can only use one power/night. Which makes me believe the same would be true for MiX. Either the camera or the trap. And I got the camera, so...

[2.71828.....]

Let's wait until the mood confirms whatever it is that lekkit did in thread before we go lynching anyone.

[2.71828.....]

Let's wait until the mood confirms whatever it is that lekkit did in thread before we go lynching anyone.

Mod*

[Lekkit]

Let's wait until the mood confirms whatever it is that lekkit did in thread before we go lynching anyone.

I agree.

[Lekkit]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

[Lekkit]

I do think that it's kind of weird to give someone a watcher ability and then not kill them off if you intend to kill people.

[MiX]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

We should definitely wait to see if your thing actually does anything, and we should have a full day of discussion regardless.

[EFHW]

I do think that it's kind of weird to give someone a watcher ability and then not kill them off if you intend to kill people.

Were you told who gave it to you? Did you have the impression they knew what the camera did?

[EFHW]

I do think that it's kind of weird to give someone a watcher ability and then not kill them off if you intend to kill people.

Were you told who gave it to you? Did you have the impression they knew what the camera did?

But, yeah. It would have to be some kind of investigative role, even if he didn't know which.

MiX, was your gift compulsory?

[EFHW]

And the main reason fo why it isn't true is LaLight being alive after targeting the claimed PGO.

well, as MiX said his PGO kills everyone who tries to kill himwhich i obviously didn't do

Did Lalight try to kill MiX? His description said only attempted killers get killed instead. He also said it was 1-shot and he used it N1. (the Day 2 thing is really confusing)

[Lekkit]

I do think that it's kind of weird to give someone a watcher ability and then not kill them off if you intend to kill people.

Were you told who gave it to you? Did you have the impression they knew what the camera did?

I wasn't. However, MiX made me do a list with items I thought would be useful for me. The camera was the second from the top on that list. And at the start of day two MiX asked me if I liked the item. I assume MiX either gave it to me, or knows someone who did. LaLight's motion detection leads me to believe I got it from MiX.

[MiX]

I do think that it's kind of weird to give someone a watcher ability and then not kill them off if you intend to kill people.

Were you told who gave it to you? Did you have the impression they knew what the camera did?

I wasn't. However, MiX made me do a list with items I thought would be useful for me. The camera was the second from the top on that list. And at the start of day two MiX asked me if I liked the item. I assume MiX either gave it to me, or knows someone who did. LaLight's motion detection leads me to believe I got it from MiX.

I also said that I gave you the item...

[EFHW]

Wait, so MiX used his PGO N1 because he thought Lekkit would kill him AND he gave him the item of his choice?

[Lekkit]

Yup. That's the claim.

[faust]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

There's also no reason not to. Or do you want to wait to "talk things through" like last Day, where you ended up not talking about anything of note?

[faust]

It's pretty clear that the whole PGO thing is just a hastily patched on fakeclaim.

[MiX]

Wait, so MiX used his PGO N1 because he thought Lekkit would kill him AND he gave him the item of his choice?

Yes. It covered both cases. Besides, is there a better target for inventor than your IC neighbor?

[Lekkit]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

There's also no reason not to. Or do you want to wait to "talk things through" like last Day, where you ended up not talking about anything of note?

While not much came to light. It ended up being a day where people expressed thoughts. That is the thing we can go back and look at when trying to figure out who to lynch.

[MiX]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

There's also no reason not to. Or do you want to wait to "talk things through" like last Day, where you ended up not talking about anything of note?

While not much came to light. It ended up being a day where people expressed thoughts. That is the thing we can go back and look at when trying to figure out who to lynch.

It was an incredible day of ash smoke screening the entirety of the day so that scola was the only possible lynch. It was notably awful, but it does say that ash is probably scum, so it couldn't had been that bad.

It shouldn't influence today's lynch, however. So in that regard it was useless, but will be useful tomorrow.

[Lekkit]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

There's also no reason not to. Or do you want to wait to "talk things through" like last Day, where you ended up not talking about anything of note?

While not much came to light. It ended up being a day where people expressed thoughts. That is the thing we can go back and look at when trying to figure out who to lynch.

It was an incredible day of ash smoke screening the entirety of the day so that scola was the only possible lynch. It was notably awful, but it does say that ash is probably scum, so it couldn't had been that bad.

It shouldn't influence today's lynch, however. So in that regard it was useless, but will be useful tomorrow.

And if we would've just lynched Scola at the start of the day we wouldn't have that. At worst we get WIFOM or nothing if we play the day out. If we don't we know we get nothing.

[faust]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

There's also no reason not to. Or do you want to wait to "talk things through" like last Day, where you ended up not talking about anything of note?

While not much came to light. It ended up being a day where people expressed thoughts. That is the thing we can go back and look at when trying to figure out who to lynch.

Would be even less useful now. Giving opinions on players we won't lynch only helps mafia figure out the best targets for the nightkill/other actions, and kills overall activity in the game because we're treading water for a couple of days, and people won't simply return to their previous activity level after that.

[Lekkit]

I don't really think there's a reason to haste through the day.

There's also no reason not to. Or do you want to wait to "talk things through" like last Day, where you ended up not talking about anything of note?

While not much came to light. It ended up being a day where people expressed thoughts. That is the thing we can go back and look at when trying to figure out who to lynch.

Would be even less useful now. Giving opinions on players we won't lynch only helps mafia figure out the best targets for the nightkill/other actions, and kills overall activity in the game because we're treading water for a couple of days, and people won't simply return to their previous activity level after that.

I prefer not to be on day 1 information-wise all days. This is an exaggeration, sure. But I hope you see my point. I think this is just that we have different opinions on which information is more important.

The productivity, I can agree with. But at the same time, having a night end and then go into a new one also sucks.

[Swowl]

More flavorful text to follow (family day and on phone sorry).

Lekkit is MOD Confirmed as Town Aligned.

[MiX]

Vote: MiX

I'm open for questioning. It's L-1 by the way.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: MiX

I'm open for questioning. It's L-1 by the way.

What ‘cha doing MiX?

[MiX]

Vote: MiX

I'm open for questioning. It's L-1 by the way.

What ‘cha doing MiX?

This is a very open ended question, but I'll try to answer it as best as possible. Right now I'm typing a reply to a post in this mafia game. If you wanted to know what I was doing when I read that post, then the answer is I was looking at the Recent Posts part of this forum waiting to see if there were any new mafia posts.

[WestCoastDidds]

Goof ball.

Why are you voting for yourself?

[MiX]

Goof ball.

Why are you voting for yourself?

If there's town out there that explains how Lekkit got the result I'd expect them to say so right now, otherwise scum won't say it and honestly if I was on your side I would be voting for the one the IC has a watcher result on regardless of alignment of anyone. After I flip we can discuss how I flipped town, but before I don't think that's in the realm of possibilities. Knowing that we are, I still have no idea how it's even possible, and honestly I'd prefer to be lynched before an oddball idea is discussed, it would be filled with doubt because I could just be scum and we wouldn't get anywhere before I'm lynched anyway.

Of course, if there's town that can explain it, go ahead, don't waste time. But I do agree with faust when he said that if we're lynching someone there's no reason to talk anymore, and right now I believe we should lynch me, barring any claim that explains this situation.

[2.71828.....]

Since you targeted cayvie last night.

So MiX, this is what you are unable to explain, correct? How Lekkit got this result.

[MiX]

Since you targeted cayvie last night.

So MiX, this is what you are unable to explain, correct? How Lekkit got this result.

Yes. Specifically I didn't target anyone so even with a redirection it's not explained.

[MiX]

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

[MiX]

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

[2.71828.....]

Since you targeted cayvie last night.

So MiX, this is what you are unable to explain, correct? How Lekkit got this result.

Yes. Specifically I didn't target anyone so even with a redirection it's not explained.

I mean, the only explanation then is that lekkit was redirected and whoever they were redirected to targeted cayvie

[MiX]

Since you targeted cayvie last night.

So MiX, this is what you are unable to explain, correct? How Lekkit got this result.

Yes. Specifically I didn't target anyone so even with a redirection it's not explained.

I mean, the only explanation then is that lekkit was redirected and whoever they were redirected to targeted cayvie

Then she wouldn't get "MiX", right? She can't get my name if all there is is a simple redirection. She's a watcher, not a tracker.

[Lekkit]

Not that I really care. But usually people call me he/him.

[Lekkit]

Also. I got WCD who claimed to have targeted cayvie too.

[WestCoastDidds]

Since you targeted cayvie last night.

So MiX, this is what you are unable to explain, correct? How Lekkit got this result.

Yes. Specifically I didn't target anyone so even with a redirection it's not explained.

I mean, the only explanation then is that lekkit was redirected and whoever they were redirected to targeted cayvie

Then she wouldn't get "MiX", right? She can't get my name if all there is is a simple redirection. She's a watcher, not a tracker.

Is there a role that allows someone to masquerade as someone else? Is that a thing?

[Lekkit]

Since you targeted cayvie last night.

So MiX, this is what you are unable to explain, correct? How Lekkit got this result.

Yes. Specifically I didn't target anyone so even with a redirection it's not explained.

I mean, the only explanation then is that lekkit was redirected and whoever they were redirected to targeted cayvie

Then she wouldn't get "MiX", right? She can't get my name if all there is is a simple redirection. She's a watcher, not a tracker.

Is there a role that allows someone to masquerade as someone else? Is that a thing?

I mean that's the real question. It does sound kinda bastard, though.

[2.71828.....]

Also. I got WCD who claimed to have targeted cayvie too.

Can you claim all your stuff in one post for us?

[Lekkit]

I targeted cayvie with Watcher. WCD and MiX was the result I got back.

[EFHW]

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

All I know is she was a rolecop. She targeted Shraeye and learned he was a redirector.

[Glooble]

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

Well that doesn’t make any sense.
All I know is she was a rolecop. She targeted Shraeye and learned he was a redirector.

[Glooble]

Sorry quite fail. Here’s what I meant to post:

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

All I know is she was a rolecop. She targeted Shraeye and learned he was a redirector.

Well that doesn’t make any sense.

[MiX]

Sorry quite fail. Here’s what I meant to post:

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

All I know is she was a rolecop. She targeted Shraeye and learned he was a redirector.

Well that doesn’t make any sense.

What do you mean?

[Swowl]

Vote Count 3.1:
MiX (5): LaLight, faust, Glooble, ADK, MiX (L-1)

Not Voting (6):  EFHW, E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit



With 11 alive, takes 6 players to lynch.
Deadline for Day 3 is April 11th at 10:50pm Forum Time.

[Glooble]

Sorry quite fail. Here’s what I meant to post:

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

All I know is she was a rolecop. She targeted Shraeye and learned he was a redirector.

Well that doesn’t make any sense.

What do you mean?

Everyone else has flipped with a standard mafia role name. If cayvie was a rolecop, her flip should have said that. Plus "master of Disguise" has nothing to do with rolecop.

[MiX]

cayvie doesn't have a standard mafia role. Is it that impossible that part of it was rolecop?

[EFHW]

She said that she breadcrumbed that she was Cinna Day 1. I don't know what else to tell you. There could have been more she didn't say. Her exact words implied essentially a rolecop, so there could have been more. Since Shraeye did indeed flip redirector, it seems like she was telling me the truth.

[EFHW]

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

Do you have a plan to kill me tonight?

[MiX]

She said that she breadcrumbed that she was Cinna Day 1. I don't know what else to tell you. There could have been more she didn't say. Her exact words implied essentially a rolecop, so there could have been more. Since Shraeye did indeed flip redirector, it seems like she was telling me the truth.

I presume from that that part of cayvie's PR was being a rolecop, and knowing roles then allowed her to...do something flavorful.

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

Do you have a plan to kill me tonight?

No? Why do you think that? Wouldn't my question signal the exact opposite?

[ashersky]

vote: MiX

LaLight for MVP at this point (given what I know from how he's been playing in QT).

That MiX fakeclaim didn't even read like a real role, did it?  Just didn't match up.

Redirector and all that is fine and all, but the lie is that he didn't target anyone, not that he targeted someone else.

[MiX]

Finally.

A bunch of people are playing well, but the game needs to end for MVP to be decided. Sadly that ain't me, lol.

I actually fullclaimed to Lekkit btw, you can out your thing now, I won't do it in case you're not here in twilight.

[ashersky]

Latest reads, again:

Faust (stuff)
EFHW (similar stuff)
2.7 (no shot yet is scummy)
Jimmmmm
WCD
Glooble
ADK
LaLight
Lekkit (IC is IC)

[Swowl]

THREAD LOCKED

[Swowl]

Vote Count 3.Final:
MiX (6): LaLight, faust, Glooble, ADK, MiX, Ashersky

Not Voting (5):  EFHW, E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit



With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
Night 3 starts now and ends April 8th at 3:45am Forum Time.
Please submit night actions by April 7th at 10pm Forum Time.

[Swowl]

MiX has been lynched! They were Beetee, the Career Tribute Aligned 1-Shot Inventor.

Though the Capitol solgiers cleaning up the body tried, they could not seem to pry the Engineering Kit from MiX's cold dead hands...

[Swowl]

faust has died at night. They were Peeta, the Town Aligned Hider.
It was a rainy day the day the soldiers came to carry the body away. You could see the camouflage drip right off the skin...

[Swowl]

Glooble has died at night! They were Cato, the Town Aligned Jack of All Trades.
It was noted by the guards that there was a utility bag tied around their waste.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.0:

Not Voting (8): EFHW, E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit LaLight, ADK

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 4 ends on April 14th at 11:00pm Forum Time.



THREAD UNLOCKED

[A Drowned Kernel]

The SK's dead, so I'm guessing faust hid behind glooble

Who's left here? How about a vote: EFHW

[ashersky]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

[ashersky]

The SK's dead, so I'm guessing faust hid behind glooble

Who's left here? How about a vote: EFHW

I'm not convinced MiX was on his own -- EFHW could be his partner, given her reaction to the wagon/refusal to vote for him during D2.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I guess that there's precedent for purple being used for a faction instead of a SK but eh

[ashersky]

I guess that there's precedent for purple being used for a faction instead of a SK but eh

MiX was Career Tribute Aligned, which is ambiguous at best.

[EFHW]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Nice try, but my power doesn't have targets.

vote: ashersky

[Jimmmmm]

What's your power?

[2.71828.....]

Career tribute seems very much like it could be a scum faction with more than one person

[2.71828.....]

Just thinking about the flavor

[2.71828.....]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Nice try, but my power doesn't have targets.

vote: ashersky

Any other tracking actions Ash?

I feel like mass claiming today would be a good thing

[2.71828.....]

I at least want to hear LaLight's target last night, ashersky's full claim, and EFHW's full claim

[ashersky]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Nice try, but my power doesn't have targets.

vote: ashersky

You really don't have any other options to respond with anyway, so this is not surprising.  I would assume people will want a full claim from you if you want to have any chance at being believed.

To be frank, if anyone thinks I am lying at this point, feel free to lynch me, confirm my role, and then lynch EFHW.

As a scum gambit, this is a pretty stupid one, given whatever the scum numbers, we are nowhere close to a scum win, so a one-for-one trade at this time doesn't pay off.

We are at 8 alive.  WORST case scenario is something two scum remaining?  Probably not even on the same team.  That leaves 6 town in the way of a scum win.

So, I don't really care if you lynch me first, but it seems fairly silly to do it that way.

[ashersky]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Nice try, but my power doesn't have targets.

vote: ashersky

Any other tracking actions Ash?

I feel like mass claiming today would be a good thing

faust hid behind you on N1.
EFHW targeted MiX on N2.

I debated tracking someone new on N3, but EFHW's strange reaction to the MiX lynch really stuck out to me, so I tracked her again, assuming if MiX was her partner, she'd have to do the kill.

(I claimed these results to LL in the QT on previous days, btw.)

[ashersky]

I see two scenarios that make the most sense for EFHW's N2 MiX targeting:

1) In a 3/1 scenario, EFHW is the remaining red scum, tried to kill MiX, blocked by SK's usual BP (assuming mods went that route)
2) In a 2/2 scenario, EFHW is the remaining purple scum, protected/godfathered/redirected off of MiX while MiX shot on N2

What's fun is that EFHW can't even make up a lie about why she targeted MiX now, because her claim is that she doesn't target at all.

And no, I was NOT redirected, as my results include my target's name in them.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, one night might be funny stuff still happening, two nights is much more suspect.

I still don't want to quick lynch today, I feel like with who we have alive we can piece the puzzle together and solve any remaining scum and just win

[2.71828.....]

Because there is the 2/2/1 scenario. Because how do we account for the two deaths last night?

I didn't shoot

[2.71828.....]

I feel like 11/2/2/1 is not unbalanced for 16 players

[ashersky]

To expound on why I suspected EFHW enough to re-track on N3:

LL claims and incriminates MiX.  EFHW posted twice after that, neither of which mentions or acknowledges LL's post and does not touch on MiX at all.

Then Lekkit claims his results, incriminating MiX even more.  Here's EFHW's response:

The plot thickens!

To me, the towny response to a double whammy claim is to want to suspect/vote/etc.  Even level-headed town will be swayed somewhat.  EFHW was not -- she was jokey, she did not vote or seek clarification or ask anything of MiX.

After this post, she didn't post again for two pages (25/page), and then responds to Lekkit's item info:

I do think that it's kind of weird to give someone a watcher ability and then not kill them off if you intend to kill people.

Were you told who gave it to you? Did you have the impression they knew what the camera did?

I do think that it's kind of weird to give someone a watcher ability and then not kill them off if you intend to kill people.

Were you told who gave it to you? Did you have the impression they knew what the camera did?

But, yeah. It would have to be some kind of investigative role, even if he didn't know which.

MiX, was your gift compulsory?

And some confusion about LL's claim:

And the main reason fo why it isn't true is LaLight being alive after targeting the claimed PGO.

well, as MiX said his PGO kills everyone who tries to kill himwhich i obviously didn't do

Did Lalight try to kill MiX? His description said only attempted killers get killed instead. He also said it was 1-shot and he used it N1. (the Day 2 thing is really confusing)

Then a little bit of incredulity about MiX here:

Wait, so MiX used his PGO N1 because he thought Lekkit would kill him AND he gave him the item of his choice?

Awhile later, on cayvie:

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

All I know is she was a rolecop. She targeted Shraeye and learned he was a redirector.

She said that she breadcrumbed that she was Cinna Day 1. I don't know what else to tell you. There could have been more she didn't say. Her exact words implied essentially a rolecop, so there could have been more. Since Shraeye did indeed flip redirector, it seems like she was telling me the truth.

And her last post before the day ends, in direct response to MiX shading her:

Also something I've been wondering...should cayvie's role be public, in case EFHW

's name makes me quickpost this.

in case EFHW dies in the night? They're neighbors, right? She should know what cayvie did, because I have no idea what Master of Disguise does.

Do you have a plan to kill me tonight?

I noted there was never any suspicion, questioning, wondering, reads, or anything from EFHW about MiX here.  It was that sequence, along with my knowledge that she targeted MiX the previous night, that made me suspicious.  I wanted to see if she targeted the kill on N3, and she did.

[ashersky]

Because there is the 2/2/1 scenario. Because how do we account for the two deaths last night?

I didn't shoot

Fair.  Which would leave a partner for EFHW, in my opinion.

[2.71828.....]

Specifically, I am still suspicious of you, ashersky.

Not that your results don't make EFHW scum, but that you may also be scum.

Town: Lekkit, e
Very strong town read: LaLight, jimmmm, WCD, ADK
Still suspicious: ashersky, EFHW

[ashersky]

Because there is the 2/2/1 scenario. Because how do we account for the two deaths last night?

I didn't shoot

Wait, we do have an explanation that doesn't require another killer.

faust was hider.  If he hid behind Glooble, he died.  Or, if it was the variant, he hid behind scum and died.  So, maybe breadcrumb hunting is worthwhile.

[2.71828.....]

Because there is the 2/2/1 scenario. Because how do we account for the two deaths last night?

I didn't shoot

Wait, we do have an explanation that doesn't require another killer.

faust was hider.  If he hid behind Glooble, he died.  Or, if it was the variant, he hid behind scum and died.  So, maybe breadcrumb hunting is worthwhile.

Ah, you are right. Probably suspected that scum would kill the IC

[ashersky]

Specifically, I am still suspicious of you, ashersky.

Not that your results don't make EFHW scum, but that you may also be scum.

Town: Lekkit, e
Very strong town read: LaLight, jimmmm, WCD, ADK
Still suspicious: ashersky, EFHW

Again, as I have mentioned, just lynch me.  Today or tomorrow, I don't care.

I think you would agree that whatever my alignment, I am very unlikely to be lying.  There's no benefit.

[2.71828.....]

Specifically, I am still suspicious of you, ashersky.

Not that your results don't make EFHW scum, but that you may also be scum.

Town: Lekkit, e
Very strong town read: LaLight, jimmmm, WCD, ADK
Still suspicious: ashersky, EFHW

Again, as I have mentioned, just lynch me.  Today or tomorrow, I don't care.

I think you would agree that whatever my alignment, I am very unlikely to be lying.  There's no benefit.

True, EFHW lynch is the first order of business, that is pretty clear

[ashersky]

Still alive: EFHW, E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit, LaLight, ADK

We have scum left in EFHW, 2.7, WCD, Jimmmmmm, ash, LL, ADK (7).

We've flipped 3 scum so far.  In a game of 16, 4 is the minimum, 5 is fine, 6 seems like the absolute maximum.  So we have 1-3 scum in 7.

In my opinion, the most realistic worst case is 4 mafia + 1 SK.  That would leave 2 scum in 8 alive on the same team, looking to remove 4 town.  That's two mislynches.
If we have 3 mafia + 2 ww, we have 2 scum alive in 8 on separate teams, looking to remove each other and 5 town.

In either case, since we have a clear 1v1 here, we can simplify this, right?

Lynch EFHW today; no matter her alignment, you could lynch me tomorrow if the game is still going.  That covers your bases in case you think I'm terrible at this game and gave myself up in a 1v1 for no reason.  Assume one kill goes through each night, that leaves you going into Day 6 with 3v1 MYLO if one scum is left alive.  It's not optimal, but it's survivable.

[ashersky]

I would point out that for a player who was just called out in a claim, popping in for one post to say I'm lying and vote me isn't the most convincing of reactions.

[2.71828.....]

I would point out that for a player who was just called out in a claim, popping in for one post to say I'm lying and vote me isn't the most convincing of reactions.

She also lives in the US and is probably fast asleep right now

[2.71828.....]

Still alive: EFHW, E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit, LaLight, ADK

We have scum left in EFHW, 2.7, WCD, Jimmmmmm, ash, LL, ADK (7).

We've flipped 3 scum so far.  In a game of 16, 4 is the minimum, 5 is fine, 6 seems like the absolute maximum.  So we have 1-3 scum in 7.

In my opinion, the most realistic worst case is 4 mafia + 1 SK.  That would leave 2 scum in 8 alive on the same team, looking to remove 4 town.  That's two mislynches.
If we have 3 mafia + 2 ww, we have 2 scum alive in 8 on separate teams, looking to remove each other and 5 town.

In either case, since we have a clear 1v1 here, we can simplify this, right?

Lynch EFHW today; no matter her alignment, you could lynch me tomorrow if the game is still going.  That covers your bases in case you think I'm terrible at this game and gave myself up in a 1v1 for no reason.  Assume one kill goes through each night, that leaves you going into Day 6 with 3v1 MYLO if one scum is left alive.  It's not optimal, but it's survivable.

But yeah, the odds are, in fact, in our favor

[ashersky]

I would point out that for a player who was just called out in a claim, popping in for one post to say I'm lying and vote me isn't the most convincing of reactions.

She also lives in the US and is probably fast asleep right now

Now, yes.  At the time she posted her response, I would assume she was awake.

[Lekkit]

MiX did claim SK to me and wanted me to claim that for him after he was hammered during twilight. I wasn't around for that, though. I want to stress the part that they wanted me to do it instead of them.

They also claimed which items were left r2 and which items were left after that, because those were the items they said they could invent. I wouldn't trust that information entirely.

They also wanted me to guess "all of their powers". However the flip said 1-shot inventor. So I'm currently thinking that was a way to throw me off.

It does feel weird to be alive today. To be fair it feels weird to be alive at all since I claimed IC to MiX d1. This actually makes me believe that they were actually SK.

Two kills yesterday and a kill + possible collateral makes this still possible. We haven't had three kills any night either.

[Jimmmmm]

MiX did claim SK to me and wanted me to claim that for him after he was hammered during twilight. I wasn't around for that, though. I want to stress the part that they wanted me to do it instead of them.

Did he say why he wanted us to know/believe he was an SK?

[Lekkit]

Not really. I kind of asked him if he wanted to be a town controlled SK(vig), but I got a kind of hostile response.

[LaLight]

Lekkit, did you hammer anyone with anything tonight? just yes or no.

also I didn't read the thread, i fell asleep couple of hours ago, i'll be back soonish, go to sleep a bit more

[Lekkit]

I don't understand the question.

[LaLight]

I don't understand the question.

Sorry,sleepy mind. Did you target anyone?

[LaLight]

vote: EFHW

[LaLight]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Nice try, but my power doesn't have targets.

vote: ashersky

Any other tracking actions Ash?

I feel like mass claiming today would be a good thing

faust hid behind you on N1.
EFHW targeted MiX on N2.

I debated tracking someone new on N3, but EFHW's strange reaction to the MiX lynch really stuck out to me, so I tracked her again, assuming if MiX was her partner, she'd have to do the kill.

(I claimed these results to LL in the QT on previous days, btw.)

I confirm

[LaLight]

Because there is the 2/2/1 scenario. Because how do we account for the two deaths last night?

I didn't shoot

faust is a hider. He could die by hiding behind scum

[Lekkit]

I don't understand the question.

Sorry,sleepy mind. Did you target anyone?

Yes.

[LaLight]

I don't understand the question.

Sorry,sleepy mind. Did you target anyone?

Yes.

oh ok

well, I know who

[LaLight]

so yeah, i targeted Lekkit and I got only one name which is Lekkit's target. No one targeted Lekkit seems like

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning....I was sad about the two deaths, but am somewhat relieved that it could be from faust hiding. And I’m feeling optimistic about our chances based on some of these results.

I’m ready to vote for EFHW, but that would put her at L-1, so I’ll wait until we’re ready for the day to end. Or at least until e is ready for the day to end. It seems like he’s the one who needs the most info if we do still have 2 baddies left.

[EFHW]

I have the trident and I'm a lightning rod. 

Daybolt!

[LaLight]

so how does lightning rod work? did you activate it now?..

[ashersky]

so how does lightning rod work? did you activate it now?..

She's trolling...a day lightning rod (daybolt) would cause all day actions to target her.

[LaLight]

so how does lightning rod work? did you activate it now?..

She's trolling...a day lightning rod (daybolt) would cause all day actions to target her.

oh ok

[ashersky]

I also realized that 2.7 could just shoot me tonight if I'm lying.

Just another thing I wanted to point out that should help make it clear I have no incentive to lie here.

[2.71828.....]

I have the trident and I'm a lightning rod. 

Daybolt!

Well, that looks promising as far as EFHW being scum.

My vig shot is actually day or night, so....

Shoot EFHW

[2.71828.....]

Then we can lynch from there if we haven't won

[Lekkit]

Exciting!

[EFHW]

I have the trident and I'm a lightning rod. 

Daybolt!

Well, that looks promising as far as EFHW being scum.

My vig shot is actually day or night, so....

Shoot EFHW

Ouch!

That wasn't very nice ...

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh! that is exciting!  Being Katniss is cool.

[Swowl]

wooosh! thwack!
An arrow flies from no where and hits EFHW right in the face! They attempted to deflect it with their trident... but it was unsuccesful.


EFHW has been shot. They were the Mafia-Aligned 1-Shot Lightning Rod.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.1:

Not Voting (7): E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit LaLight, ADK

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 4 ends on April 15th at 11:00pm Forum Time.
*There was a 24 hour extension, due to the Day Vig Shot*

[WestCoastDidds]

Nice!

So there must be one more? Like Jimmmmm?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Jim, e... or didds

I'm going to do a reread tomorrow

[LaLight]

that is awesome!

[LaLight]

but i really don't think this makes 2.7 town

[LaLight]

i townread ash the most right now. obviously i wouldn't put past ash a gambit so intricate, but i choose to believe.

i would also vote: WCD

[ashersky]

Nice.

So, we should assume 1 more until proven otherwise.  At this point, I don't think it matters if that one is red or purple.  A few things to consider:

E!, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, LaLight, ADK

That is the remaining pool.  All non-Lekkit town are in the best position, looking for 1 baddie in 5.  I would suggest we all rank order that set.  As an example, an off-the-dome version for me:

Jimmmmm, WCD, 2.7, ADK, LL

None of that is substantiated with a case at this point, but that's just a gut list. 

Another thing -- it may be time for a mass claim.  Not much else to sort, and the only thing worth hiding are doctors, I guess.  But with multiple possible ways to be caught at night, I don't think that matters so much.

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah, we're in the endgame now.

I am a 1-Shot District Cop (Spotlight/Cesar Flickerman).

On Night 1 I Copped District 5 (WCD/ADK), and the result was No Non-Town. Obviously it's not impossible that some kind of Godfather was in play.

I told e my role (although not that I was 1-shot at that point) and result on Day 2.

At the end of Day 2 I breadcrumbed my result (stating I wouldn't lynch WCD or ADK), in case e was scum and I died.

While there is a possible element of WIFOM, I think the fact that e has known my result since Day 2 and WCD, ADK and I are all still alive indicates that it's very unlikely that he's scum.

So it seems highly likely that the remaining scum are in ash/LaLight.

[ashersky]

If someone has time, they can put together the direct actions players took against/for scum in thread.

Like:

2.7 shot EFHW (red), makes him less likely to be red
ash hammered MiX (purple), outed EFHW (red), makes him less likely to be either
LL claimed results that outed MiX (purple), makes him less likely to be purple

Stuff like that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah, we're in the endgame now.

I am a 1-Shot District Cop (Spotlight/Cesar Flickerman).

On Night 1 I Copped District 5 (WCD/ADK), and the result was No Non-Town. Obviously it's not impossible that some kind of Godfather was in play.

I told e my role (although not that I was 1-shot at that point) and result on Day 2.

At the end of Day 2 I breadcrumbed my result (stating I wouldn't lynch WCD or ADK), in case e was scum and I died.

While there is a possible element of WIFOM, I think the fact that e has known my result since Day 2 and WCD, ADK and I are all still alive indicates that it's very unlikely that he's scum.

So it seems highly likely that the remaining scum are in ash/LaLight.

Oh that's nice to know

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

[Jimmmmm]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

]

The rose

Also I think that leaves me with vote: e

[Jimmmmm]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

]

The rose

Also I think that leaves me with vote: e

Do you really think scum e leaves you, me and Didds alive for so long?

[2.71828.....]

e, WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit LaLight, ADK

So we are still on. Here are my thoughts right now

1) I know I am town
2) I know Lekkit is town
3) Jimmmm lying doesn't work. If they were scum trying to protect a scum buddy they could have given me a different result or at least had their faction kill off some of the people who were confirmed town, or killed me so jimmmm could claim whatever he wanted when the time came. Just doesn't add up.
3a) jimmmm and WCD are town.
3b) ADK is a godfather so that doesn't clear him
3c) you can bet if I were scum jimmmm wouldn't have been around to share his result. Factional kill, vig shot....yeah, jimmmm wouldn't have lasted for two nights after claiming to me on D2 in our qt
4) one of ashersky, LaLight, or ADK is scum

I was fairly confident EFHW was going to flip purple and that ashersky was red (or a third scum faction) given how D1 ended, but that is obviously not the case.

LaLight and ADK I need to reread some, my gut reaction is that the last scum is our godfather, ADK. But I want to look at our three remaining suspects again before voting

[2.71828.....]

And that reread will come.... Later

We have plenty of time

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

]

The rose

Also I think that leaves me with vote: e

Do you really think scum e leaves you, me and Didds alive for so long?

Why wouldn't he? I'm not sure I understand the question

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

]

The rose

Also I think that leaves me with vote: e

Do you really think scum e leaves you, me and Didds alive for so long?

Why wouldn't he? I'm not sure I understand the question

Oh because you claimed to him

Wellllll vote: ash

[Jimmmmm]

Again it's WIFOM, but how likely do we think it is that a scum Godfather would claim Godfather?

[ashersky]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

]

The rose

Also I think that leaves me with vote: e

Do you really think scum e leaves you, me and Didds alive for so long?

Why wouldn't he? I'm not sure I understand the question

Oh because you claimed to him

Wellllll vote: ash

Is the argument that confirming me as town helps us win?  If so, I'll support the lynch.  I just need a better understanding.

At this point, I see more value in keeping me alive.  The remaining scum have too many NK targets to choose from -- Lekkit, me, LL are the best.  If you believe others, Jimmmm and 2.7 are just VTs now.

If 2.7 has more shots, he should just keep shooting during the day.  Like, anyone he wants.  I have to assume that if he's town, his chances of hitting the last scum before giving the win to scum is high.

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

]

The rose

Also I think that leaves me with vote: e

Do you really think scum e leaves you, me and Didds alive for so long?

Why wouldn't he? I'm not sure I understand the question

Oh because you claimed to him

Wellllll vote: ash

Is the argument that confirming me as town helps us win?  If so, I'll support the lynch.  I just need a better understanding.

At this point, I see more value in keeping me alive.  The remaining scum have too many NK targets to choose from -- Lekkit, me, LL are the best.  If you believe others, Jimmmm and 2.7 are just VTs now.

If 2.7 has more shots, he should just keep shooting during the day.  Like, anyone he wants.  I have to assume that if he's town, his chances of hitting the last scum before giving the win to scum is high.

I'm a little drunk and need to reread jim but I can remember at least one game where you faked a result on your partner as a desperate scum gambit

[ashersky]

I'm a little drunk and need to reread jim but I can remember at least one game where you faked a result on your partner as a desperate scum gambit

I'm sure that's possible that I did that in the past, but I've laid out pretty clearly why it would have been a bad idea here.

I'm not immune to attempting bad plans, but generally not that bad.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I mean that literally just leaves jim and maybe lalight? But again I would have to reread

[Jimmmmm]

ash hammered MiX (purple)

Don't you auto-hammer?

[ashersky]

ash hammered MiX (purple)

Don't you auto-hammer?

Good point.  I feel like I was pushing for him though.

[Jimmmmm]

ash hammered MiX (purple)

Don't you auto-hammer?

Good point.  I feel like I was pushing for him though.

I'm looking for your interactions with him. MiX was caught and would have been lynched anyway. You may get points for other interactions, but not for the hammer.

[Jimmmmm]

I skimmed through your posts for about the second half of the game. Let me know if you think there's something important to not from the first half.

The only notable posts on MiX I found:

...
MiX is there because MiX.
...
So faust >>>>> Jimmmmm > MiX > scola >> Lekkit > Glooble

Note that (from my perspective) this list now reads Town >>>>> Town > scum > Town >> Town > Town

faust is not town-aligned.
Top suspects after that are EFHW, Jimmmm, and MiX.
Top town reads at LL, ADK, 2.7.

And that's it. I don't think mentioning him in a couple of reads lists is pushing, and it would hardly qualify as bussing if you are partners with him.


Also, do you have any hindsight thoughts on this?

I'm in a tough spot, right?  I know faust is scum, but no one will trust me enough to follow through.  I can expend lots of energy trying to convince people, but it doesn't seem to have an effect.

"I know faust is scum" seems almost mod-confirmed level confidence. How sure were you really? Did it occur to you that you might be wrong and you really should have looked elsewhere?

[Jimmmmm]

I normally think "Oh no! I was wrong" etc posts are scummy, but after being so sure that faust was scum that you couldn't otherwise participate in the game, failing to acknowledge it at all after his flip seems odd.

[ashersky]

I normally think "Oh no! I was wrong" etc posts are scummy, but after being so sure that faust was scum that you couldn't otherwise participate in the game, failing to acknowledge it at all after his flip seems odd.

"I normally think X is scummy."
"I think it is odd you didn't do X."

That's how that reads to me.  Like you want to find me scummy regardless of what you normally believe.

[ashersky]

Also, do you have any hindsight thoughts on this?

I'm in a tough spot, right?  I know faust is scum, but no one will trust me enough to follow through.  I can expend lots of energy trying to convince people, but it doesn't seem to have an effect.

"I know faust is scum" seems almost mod-confirmed level confidence. How sure were you really? Did it occur to you that you might be wrong and you really should have looked elsewhere?

I was 100% convinced that I was correct.  I am so convinced that I am not yet certain that the mods aren't trolling us with his green flip.

Okay, that's an exaggeration.  Until I saw that he was a Hider, I was 100% convinced based on my read + my result, which to me -- from my perspective -- was extremely damning.  It was so damning that I was considering lying about my role/result to incriminate him, because to me it was worth it to get a scum lynch.

So no, it never once occurred to me that I could have been wrong because my interpretation of my result supported my read.  Once he flipped Green Hider, I was able to go back and understand my results.  The fact that it doesn't appear that faust breadcrumbed anything (at least, I couldn't find anything when I did a quick ISO -- they could be there and I just missed them) doesn't help.  I had no inkling that he could have been a hider.

As far as I'm concerned, while I was incorrect, I was not wrong.  The only way I would have backed off my read was if he was IC'ed a la Lekkit.

Am I glad it worked out a different way?  Of course.  We're closer to winning than had I gotten him mislynched, followed by my mislynch.  But I am wistful that I didn't get to try out town lying -- which I got permission to do from faust in thread! (On purpose.)

[ashersky]

Also, for info, WCD is L-3 and I am at L-2.

[ashersky]

Also, for info, WCD is L-3 and I am at L-2.

(My auto-hammer has been turned off for non-ash players.)

[Jimmmmm]

Also, for info, WCD is L-3 and I am at L-2.

(My auto-hammer has been turned off for non-ash players.)

Are you saying that if I vote for you you'll hammer?

[LaLight]

unvote, i am going to sleep now, I'll figure it out in the morning

[Jimmmmm]

I normally think "Oh no! I was wrong" etc posts are scummy, but after being so sure that faust was scum that you couldn't otherwise participate in the game, failing to acknowledge it at all after his flip seems odd.

"I normally think X is scummy."
"I think it is odd you didn't do X."

That's how that reads to me.  Like you want to find me scummy regardless of what you normally believe.

Normally people don't tunnel as much or claim the level of certainty that you did. When you're scum and have committed to a strong read that you know is wrong, you need to be prepared to defend yourself when you're revealed to be wrong. I think often people feel like they need to act more shocked than they otherwise would (I don't think people are generally shocked to be wrong because they're never all that certain about their reads); I'm saying in this situation I think you went too far in the other direction: if you were truly close to 100% sure, you would have been totally shocked. But you thought acting shocked would come across as scummy, so you didn't.

[ashersky]

Also, for info, WCD is L-3 and I am at L-2.

(My auto-hammer has been turned off for non-ash players.)

Are you saying that if I vote for you you'll hammer?

Yes.  You (and anyone else not voting) hold the power.  You decide how to wield it (pro- or anti-town manner).

[ashersky]

I want to point out just how pro-scum it is to lynch me.

1. Remove an investigation from the night.
2. Remove QT confirmation for another.
3. Remove WIFOM choices for scum's NK (between Lekkit and LL, you just shoot LL and don't worry about results anymore because I'm not in the game).

Basically, only scum would put me to L-1.

[Jimmmmm]

2. Remove QT confirmation for another.

What do you mean by this?

3. Remove WIFOM choices for scum's NK (between Lekkit and LL, you just shoot LL and don't worry about results anymore because I'm not in the game).

So I'm clear on what you're saying; Are you saying that, assuming you and LL are both Town, scum will want to shoot LL but if you're around they might shoot Lekkit instead to avoid being tracked? Are you saying that LL is scum's highest priority because of his Motion Detector role?

[ashersky]

2. Remove QT confirmation for another.

What do you mean by this?

3. Remove WIFOM choices for scum's NK (between Lekkit and LL, you just shoot LL and don't worry about results anymore because I'm not in the game).

So I'm clear on what you're saying; Are you saying that, assuming you and LL are both Town, scum will want to shoot LL but if you're around they might shoot Lekkit instead to avoid being tracked? Are you saying that LL is scum's highest priority because of his Motion Detector role?

#2 refers to LL and I being able to confirm each other's actions by communicating during the day ahead of time.  If we are both alive, we can confirm each other's stories.

The second portion -- assuming we are both town -- scum will need to make a decision on whom to remove.  Ignoring possible blocking/doctoring, they have to worry about being tracked or being seen targeting.  I believe LL is the higher priority removal because I need to target the shooter, whereas LL needs to target the right target OR shooter.  He has two (three if he can self-target) good targets in the IC and the tracker.  That almost forces them to go for LL.

The fact that they didn't before now is slightly worrisome, but no more than Jimmmmm or 2.7 being left alive.

[Jimmmmm]

So if I'm understand correctly, you're arguing that if you're Town then you're more useful to keep around than other Town players, and you're making the same argument for keeping LL around.

On Day 1 or 2 I could totally get behind leaving claimed investigative PRs alive for another Day or 2 to let them get some results. But I think it's too late for that. The question isn't who is helpful if Town, it's who is Town.

Who are you proposing we lynch instead? I think we can agree that the lynch pool is:

LaLight
Jimmmmm
ADK
e
ash

(If you think WCD is scum then you should lynch me.)

[Jimmmmm]

The fact that they didn't before now is slightly worrisome, but no more than Jimmmmm or 2.7 being left alive.

Why is that worrisome? Do you think e and I are generally considered Towny and unlikely to be lynched?

[ashersky]

The fact that they didn't before now is slightly worrisome, but no more than Jimmmmm or 2.7 being left alive.

Why is that worrisome? Do you think e and I are generally considered Towny and unlikely to be lynched?

Because LL claimed his role at least to some extent in multiple ways, including in the game thread.
You claimed in your QT about your power.
2.7 claimed very early that he was a vig.

All three are still alive, even after all that information was known to many others.  None of it tells me who is town, honestly, but others seem to put weight on things like that.

[ashersky]

Who are you proposing we lynch instead? I think we can agree that the lynch pool is:

LaLight
Jimmmmm
ADK
e
ash

(If you think WCD is scum then you should lynch me.)

I think Jimmmm and ADK are the best lynch options today.

--2.7 confirmed his claimed and may be a VT at this point
--LL is an investigative role
--ash is an investigative role

Jimmmm was an investigative role, and he's given us an innocent result on WCD.  Technically his claim is not confirmed.  I agree that town or scum, that can't really be a lie.  Only if both of you are scum does this come into play, and that's tough.  So Jimmmm is town with a town result or scum with a town result.

ADK is...what?  Has ADK claimed? 

So ADK > Jimmmmm > 2.7 > ash > LL is the order for me for those five.

[Jimmmmm]

ADK claimed Godfather.

[Jimmmmm]

--2.7 confirmed his claimed and may be a VT at this point
--LL is an investigative role
--ash is an investigative role

None of these are reasons why that person is unlikely to be scum.

[Jimmmmm]

My order would currently be ash > LL > ADK > e

It's possible I'm giving ADK too much credit as I've been thinking of him as Town for some time.

[ashersky]

--2.7 confirmed his claimed and may be a VT at this point
--LL is an investigative role
--ash is an investigative role

None of these are reasons why that person is unlikely to be scum.

I agree.  My point was that some people felt strongly that some of these players still being alive meant something with regards to alignment.  I disagree with that.

ADK claimed Godfather.

Right, thanks.

[ashersky]

I also forgot, in my prior explanation on my strong read on faust, was that his whole "I guessed what the items were" thing was terribad.

[ashersky]

My order would currently be ash > LL > ADK > e

Almost the opposite of me. 

Would my green flip change your mind on the others?  Any impact at all?

[Jimmmmm]

My order would currently be ash > LL > ADK > e

Almost the opposite of me. 

Would my green flip change your mind on the others?  Any impact at all?

A very large part of it is PoE. I know WCD is Town. I'm pretty sure e is Town. As I indicated, I should reevaluate ADK.

[Jimmmmm]

So in answer to your question, my response to you flipping Town would be, "I guess it's LL (or maybe ADK) then".

[2.71828.....]

Why Ash and LaLight over ADK, Jimmmm?

Right now I am leaning

ADK >>>>>Ashersky=LaLight

[2.71828.....]

WCD, did ADK claim godfather to you in your qt?

I am just wondering if qt claiming forced ADK's hand a bit here

[2.71828.....]

Especially because Ash and LaLight both have claimed investigative roles, let them use them and try to catch scum.

Also, just to prove that I am out of shots.

Shoot ADK

[Jimmmmm]

I was like, "What! You had another shot??"

[2.71828.....]

I was like, "What! You had another shot??"

I wish

[Jimmmmm]

Why Ash and LaLight over ADK, Jimmmm?

Because I thought he was Town for quite a while, and then when I saw his claim I figured that scum probably doesn't claim Godfather. Which might not be true. As I said, I need to reevaluate him. I'll do some re-reading in the next couple of days.

[ashersky]

I was like, "What! You had another shot??"

I wish

The power would be OP, right?  Imagine an alignment-neutral item that gives unlimited dayvig shots.  Scum would just win.  I think town could win in this situation most of the time.

Maybe one shot per day would work.

[Lekkit]

ADK being godfather should not come as a shock, right? He badically claimed it d1.

[Lekkit]

ADK and Ash are the only r2ers left?

[Lekkit]

And Ash is the only one who haven't claimed? I think he said investigative role, but not lore than that.

[Lekkit]

LaLight, who did you target n2?

[Lekkit]

Saw now that Ash did indeed claim tracker.

[Lekkit]

I think everyone alive should also claim their items now.

[Lekkit]

LaLight - Fox Ears
Lekkit - Hair bow and Camera
E - Bow and arrow
ADK - Rose
WCD - ?
Jimmm -?
Ash - ?

[ashersky]

Binoculars

[Jimmmmm]

Spotlight

[Lekkit]

So, for the record. The list of r2 items I got from MiX does not correspond with items claimed people have. I would take this with a huge grain of salt, though.

[LaLight]

LaLight, who did you target n2?

I targeted shraeye and got no result. I asked mods if this means that I was rbed or no one was there, they spent 3 or 4 days answering me, which was surprising and in the end they said that it may be either.

[Jimmmmm]

LaLight, who did you target n2?

I targeted shraeye and got no result. I asked mods if this means that I was rbed or no one was there, they spent 3 or 4 days answering me, which was surprising and in the end they said that it may be either.

As in, you got a result which said "No Result"?

[Jimmmmm]

Also, speaking of the mods, it'd be great if the subject and the OP were updated.

[LaLight]

LaLight, who did you target n2?

I targeted shraeye and got no result. I asked mods if this means that I was rbed or no one was there, they spent 3 or 4 days answering me, which was surprising and in the end they said that it may be either.

As in, you got a result which said "No Result"?

I don't want to quote something from qt, sorry

but pretty much

[LaLight]

I find curious that scum left their district partner alive, we are three pairs and Lekkit.

My lynch priority would be Jimmmmm>ADK>e>ash>WCD

[Lekkit]

LaLight, who did you target n2?

I targeted shraeye and got no result. I asked mods if this means that I was rbed or no one was there, they spent 3 or 4 days answering me, which was surprising and in the end they said that it may be either.

Shraeye was probably poisoned the night or day before.

[Jimmmmm]

I find curious that scum left their district partner alive, we are three pairs and Lekkit.

Unless you and ash are scum together (or e and I are).

[LaLight]

I just posted a message in our qt with ash and i feel like i should tell it in thread. Actually having a neighbourhood did make me less active, oh well

So out of 7 present people, we have 2 investigative roles (me, ash) and two ICs (Lekkit and WCD (I assume Jimmmmm tells the truth no matter the alignment). Scum is in tight spot here, it's either leaving investigative roles alive or ICs alive. So the worst outcome of toDay is lynching any of these 4 people. And I think scum would try to push ash's lynch, because obviously no one really expressed an interest in lynching me or WCD.

There is still a possibility of ash being scum, never killing me and manipulating my targeting and keeping me alive for wifom, but I believe that less. And I think we should lynch out of e/Jimmmmm/ADK

[LaLight]

LaLight, who did you target n2?

I targeted shraeye and got no result. I asked mods if this means that I was rbed or no one was there, they spent 3 or 4 days answering me, which was surprising and in the end they said that it may be either.

Shraeye was probably poisoned the night or day before.

Yeah, obviously. I keep in mind that theremight be a roleblocker, but chances are slim, I guess no one just targeted there

[LaLight]

I find curious that scum left their district partner alive, we are three pairs and Lekkit.

Unless you and ash are scum together (or e and I are).

do you really think there's 5 scum?

[LaLight]

sounds improbable to me

[Lekkit]

5+1 sounds unlikely. 3+3 is more likely, I think. But even that is a stretch.

[2.71828.....]

sounds improbable to me

Well, 4 scum have flipped and the game is still on...so 5 scum seems very probable

[2.71828.....]

3v3v10

Seems stacked in favor of scum winning.

But again, this is the hunger games

[2.71828.....]

I think it is either 3v2v11 or 4v1v11

[2.71828.....]

I think there is also potential for a survivor here, something like 3v2v10+survivor.

But that is unlikely I think. I mean, if a survivor claims here at this point I wouldn't lynch them.

[Lekkit]

LaLight, who did you target n2?

I targeted shraeye and got no result. I asked mods if this means that I was rbed or no one was there, they spent 3 or 4 days answering me, which was surprising and in the end they said that it may be either.

Shraeye was probably poisoned the night or day before.

Yeah, obviously. I keep in mind that theremight be a roleblocker, but chances are slim, I guess no one just targeted there

Yeah. Scola was roleblocker.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 1.FINAL:

RaptorSlayer (9): Cayvie, Glooble, MiX, EFHW, E!, LaLight, faust, WCD, Mail-Mi
MiX (1): scolapasta
Mail-Mi (3): ADK, Lekkit, Shraeye
faust (1):RaptorSlayer

Not Voting (2): Jimmm, Ashersky

That took way too long on my phone, and I ran out of time to think about all those pretty colors. Oh well

[Lekkit]

I think that pretty much rules out the idea that WCD is mafia-aligned if it wasn't ruled out before.

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy, hi! Catching up...

Yes, ADK full claims early in D1. His object and his PR. So, I can confirm he claimed godfather early.

My item is the Mockingjay Pin

[Lekkit]

ADK, you were round 2, right? If so, could you please claim which items were in r2?

[WestCoastDidds]

So, if me, Lekkit (IC) Ash, and LL (investigative) are off the table, and we have ADK, e, and Jimmm to decide among, I think ADK is the one who has the least going for them.

Godfather would have messed up Jim’s result on ADK, and while e could be scum, the knowledge he has had from Jimmm makes it unlikely. I don’t want ADK to be scum, and they sure act like town, but there is definitely less in the verifiable/quasi-verifiable column for them.

So, my order is ADK> E> Jimmm

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, you were round 2, right? If so, could you please claim which items were in r2?

No, I was round one

[Lekkit]

That means that MOST likely the list I got from MiX is incorrect. Not entirely surprising.

[Lekkit]

However. It means that Ash is the only one alive who actually knows which items were in r2 and, if the claim of being #16is correct, which I assume it is, he's the only one who knows which items aren't in the game.

[Lekkit]

I'll try to do a proper reread tonight. I don't think we should lynch WCD today.

[Jimmmmm]

Ash, and LL (investigative) are off the table

Why do their claims take them off the table?

[ashersky]

A full roundup of players, rounds, and items would be helpful.  I will see if I have time at some point, but if anyone has it handy, please post.

[ashersky]

Here's what I found:

First Round:
WCD (??)
mail-mi (1-Shot Poisoner, NIGHTLOCK)
raptor (3-Shot Reloader, FLASK)
LL (X-Shot Motion Detector, FOX EARS)
Glooble (JOAT, UTILITY BAG)
2.7 (1-Shot Day/Night Vig, BOW AND ARROW)
Lekkit (??)
Jimmmmmm (1-Shot District Cop, ??)
ADK (Godfather, ??)

Second Round:
cayvie (Master of Disguise, MAKE-UP KIT)
ash (X-Shot Tracker, BINOCULARS)
MiX (1-Shot Inventor, ENGINEERING KIT)
shraeye (2-Shot Redirector, JEWELRY)

Unclaimed Round:
scola (2-Shot Roleblocker, JABBERJAY)
faust (Hider, CAMOUFLAGE)
EFHW (1-Shot Lightning Rod, TRIDENT)



Draft order, since it is out there:
Lalight - high up
shraeye - 13
ash - 16

And the list, for reference:
Camera
Bandages
Utility Bag
Nightlock
Jewelry
Trident
Jabberjay
Spotlight
Fox Ears
Wig
Rose
Bow and Arrow
Camouflage
Hair Bow
Mockingjay Pin
Microphone
Engineering Kit
Flask
Binoculars
Make Up Kit

[ashersky]

The Godfather claim really doesn't sit well with me.  If we go with the faust method for discerning items, what works for Godfather -- something that conceals your alignment?

Did ADK claim item?

[ashersky]

If I missed info in my collection from living players, let me know.

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI I am a godfather but it's nice to know that didds is town

What's your item?

]

The rose

Also I think that leaves me with vote: e

[ashersky]

First Round:
WCD (??)
mail-mi (1-Shot Poisoner, NIGHTLOCK)
raptor (3-Shot Reloader, FLASK)
LL (X-Shot Motion Detector, FOX EARS)
Glooble (JOAT, UTILITY BAG)
2.7 (1-Shot Day/Night Vig, BOW AND ARROW)
Lekkit (??)
Jimmmmmm (1-Shot District Cop, ??)
ADK (Godfather, ROSE)

Second Round:
cayvie (Master of Disguise, MAKE-UP KIT)
ash (X-Shot Tracker, BINOCULARS)
MiX (1-Shot Inventor, ENGINEERING KIT)
shraeye (2-Shot Redirector, JEWELRY)

Unclaimed Round:
scola (2-Shot Roleblocker, JABBERJAY)
faust (Hider, CAMOUFLAGE)
EFHW (1-Shot Lightning Rod, TRIDENT)



Draft order, since it is out there:
Lalight - high up
shraeye - 13
ash - 16

And the list, for reference:
Camera
Bandages
Utility Bag
Nightlock
Jewelry
Trident
Jabberjay
Spotlight
Fox Ears
Wig
Rose
Bow and Arrow
Camouflage
Hair Bow
Mockingjay Pin
Microphone
Engineering Kit
Flask
Binoculars
Make Up Kit

[Lekkit]

IC + Watcher. Hair bow + Camera (from inventor)

[LaLight]

i had a dream that the game ended and EFHW posted that they didn't have the nightkill, so they were town and people with green color were scum and we were all like ooh

[LaLight]

weird how camera and bandages weren't taken. I don't see harm to claim, I was #3. From what I remember I wanted just something interesting and cute. So here goes

[Lekkit]

I was #7.

[Jimmmmm]

I was #10.

[2.71828.....]

Super useful summary there.

Also, thinking that we should just go ahead and

Vote: ADK

I trust Ash/LaLight to us their roles appropriately at night if necessary

[ashersky]

Vote count is ADK on ash and 2.7 on ADK.

I think ADK/Jimmmm is my pool for today.



Jimmmmm, what was your item?

[WestCoastDidds]

I was #1, got the Mockingjay pin in R1, ability to make someone lynch proof (Cavyie D2, but she was dead)

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was #11

If you're really going to lynch me please lynch ash tomorrow

[WestCoastDidds]

I was #11

If you're really going to lynch me please lynch ash tomorrow

Why Ash?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was #11

If you're really going to lynch me please lynch ash tomorrow

Why Ash?

Honestly at this point it's just PoE. You're cleared (unless you and Jim are buddies), it's unlikely to be e, I don't think scum!Jim would claim a result that would potentially clear two people, and between ash and LaLight and I think ash is more likely

Again I haven't reread yet but that's my take

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.2:
Ashersky (1): ADK
ADK (1): E!

Not Voting (5): WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit LaLight

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 4 ends on April 15th at 11:00pm Forum Time.

[LaLight]

vote: ADK

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm, what was your item?

Spotlight

[Lekkit]

Without having actually gotten to my reread. My lynch list from most willing to lynch to least is ADK, Ash, Jimmm/e/LaLight, WCD.

[WestCoastDidds]

Jimmm, e....how are you all feeling about the Ash or ADK question?

[2.71828.....]

Jimmm, e....how are you all feeling about the Ash or ADK question?

Which question? Who I prefer to lynch? I am voting ADK

[2.71828.....]

Also, I assume LaLight and Ashersky also have limited shots like most roles in this game. I don't feel a strong urgency for them to claim how many/if they have shots left.

I will want that tomorrow if there is a tomorrow

[2.71828.....]

I will reserve my opinion on who between Ashersky/LaLight I think is scum

From my perspective, we have 7 alive and 3 potential scum. We could miss today and tomorrow and then we still win in lylo

So unless there is something real particular to look up I am ready for the lynch to happen

[A Drowned Kernel]

I will want that tomorrow if there is a tomorrow

Spoiler alert: there will be

[2.71828.....]

I will want that tomorrow if there is a tomorrow

Spoiler alert: there will be

Ok. Who is scum: ashersky it LaLight

[2.71828.....]

I will want that tomorrow if there is a tomorrow

Spoiler alert: there will be

Ok. Who is scum: ashersky it LaLight

Or*

[A Drowned Kernel]

I will want that tomorrow if there is a tomorrow

Spoiler alert: there will be

Ok. Who is scum: ashersky it LaLight

Or*

Probably ash, looking back at lalight on D1 it seems unlikely that he was mail-mi or raptor's partner. I think we're looking for the fourth mafia partner and not for another team, based on the fact that they've flipped as "mafia" and mix has a unique flavor for his faction; if it was two teams and not mafia+SK I would think that the red flips would have their own name

[Swowl]

*BOOM*
a cracking static follows the sound of a cannon going off... the Tributes all look to the sky for a message of some kind...


ATTENTION TRIBUTES!

After much deliberation amongst the Sponsors -  Tribute Lekkit has been chosen today to receive a special gift!

This is the only message. May the odds be ever in your favor!

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, that is exciting!!

[2.71828.....]

*BOOM*
a cracking static follows the sound of a cannon going off... the Tributes all look to the sky for a message of some kind...


ATTENTION TRIBUTES!

After much deliberation amongst the Sponsors -  Tribute Lekkit has been chosen today to receive a special gift!

This is the only message. May the odds be ever in your favor!

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Lekkit, worth sharing?

[2.71828.....]

LaLight, what was the gift you received?

[2.71828.....]

Also, did we just lynch too fast on day 3? Is it an even day thing?

Very curious.

Anyone know what causes it?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not a clue

[LaLight]

LaLight, what was the gift you received?

I had a D2 only neighbourhood with a person of my choice which was cayvie.

[LaLight]

Also, did we just lynch too fast on day 3? Is it an even day thing?

Very curious.

Anyone know what causes it?

Not a clue

[Lekkit]

*BOOM*
a cracking static follows the sound of a cannon going off... the Tributes all look to the sky for a message of some kind...


ATTENTION TRIBUTES!

After much deliberation amongst the Sponsors -  Tribute Lekkit has been chosen today to receive a special gift!

This is the only message. May the odds be ever in your favor!

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Lekkit, worth sharing?

I THINK it's better if I don't share it.

[Lekkit]

I know I've said it before. But I'll really try to get a reread tomorrow.

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read ADK. Something I noticed was a tendency to give reads without much explanation.

A few questions for you...

...analysis on district-partners...

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

I feel this.

vote: shraeye

I wasn't around much at the end of D1 due to RL busyness but I will try to do some catch up in the coming days. But I'm feeling good about where things stand right now

I was never super convinced by the district partners theory. What exactly was the "this" that you felt?

Alright, after a reread:

Unlikely to be mail-mi and raptor's partner: cayvie, glooble, mix, EFHW, e, lalight, didds, faust, shraeye, jim, ash
Could still be other scum: glooble, EFHW, faust, jim

On a reread I realized that shraeye's whole "we should claim our rank" and "#1 isn't going to be killed by scum" was likely (he didn't say as much but it's what I gathered) based on believing that scum was able to collude during the ranking phase, so that's basically a townslip from him

Looking back at mail-mi's list, I think it's unlikely he put multiple partners on the scummier end of his list

So where I'm left right now is vote: scolapasta

What made EFHW unlikely to be Mafia? What made you vote for scola? Was it just mail-mi's list placements?

Didds isn't someone I want to lynch today, probably not ever, partially based on district stuff

"Probably not ever" is a pretty big call. To what extent do you stand by that? What did she do in your QT that was Towny and couldn't just be attributed to her being her friendly self?

I've mentioned this before and I don't know how important it is, but my role seems completely unmodified for me being town

I find this to be a fairly compelling post for your Town Godfather narrative. Do you think, if you were a scum Godfather in this game, you would claim Godfather, or would you prefer to come up with some other claim? Were you disappointed when you found out you had been investigated, wishing you had some other role to claim?

The SK's dead, so I'm guessing faust hid behind glooble

Who's left here? How about a vote: EFHW

When I read this post just now, I thought it might be a scumslip. When I saw MiX's flip I figured he was on a second scum team, since it didn't indicate Serial Killer. But if the Mafia say had 4 members, they would know that a second scum team would mean too many scum players.

However, I then noticed that it also contained a vote for a Mafia member. It's hard to say exactly how much weight should be put on an out-of-the-gates Day 4 vote on Mafia, particularly when ash immediately then put the issue more or less to bed. But it's worth noting.

Probably ash, looking back at lalight on D1 it seems unlikely that he was mail-mi or raptor's partner. I think we're looking for the fourth mafia partner and not for another team, based on the fact that they've flipped as "mafia" and mix has a unique flavor for his faction; if it was two teams and not mafia+SK I would think that the red flips would have their own name

Was the Mafia/unique name comparison your immediate thought when seeing MiX's flip, or did you spend time thinking about it during that Night?

[A Drowned Kernel]

...analysis on district-partners...

so uh this theory is not lookin' too bad right now.

vote: shraeye

i wanna know why you could promise that #1 in the draft order (apparently WCD) wouldn't be the nightkill target.

I feel this.

vote: shraeye

I wasn't around much at the end of D1 due to RL busyness but I will try to do some catch up in the coming days. But I'm feeling good about where things stand right now

I was never super convinced by the district partners theory. What exactly was the "this" that you felt?

At that point, the idea that shraeye was scum; I had theory day one that I expressed to didds in our QT that shraeye and scola might be partners. It was a knee-jerk reaction that I later reconsidered.

Alright, after a reread:

Unlikely to be mail-mi and raptor's partner: cayvie, glooble, mix, EFHW, e, lalight, didds, faust, shraeye, jim, ash
Could still be other scum: glooble, EFHW, faust, jim

On a reread I realized that shraeye's whole "we should claim our rank" and "#1 isn't going to be killed by scum" was likely (he didn't say as much but it's what I gathered) based on believing that scum was able to collude during the ranking phase, so that's basically a townslip from him

Looking back at mail-mi's list, I think it's unlikely he put multiple partners on the scummier end of his list

So where I'm left right now is vote: scolapasta

What made EFHW unlikely to be Mafia? What made you vote for scola? Was it just mail-mi's list placements?

I didn't do a big write up in the thread but at that point I had done a reread of D1 looking at what mail-mi and raptor had said about other players, what other players had said about them, and when other players had voted for them. EFHW's voted for raptor relatively early in the wagon so I thought she was unlikely to be bussing; turns out I was wrong.

The scola vote was mostly just PoE, I had a lot of townreads at that point in the game.

Didds isn't someone I want to lynch today, probably not ever, partially based on district stuff

"Probably not ever" is a pretty big call. To what extent do you stand by that? What did she do in your QT that was Towny and couldn't just be attributed to her being her friendly self?

The fact that she accepted my claim and didn't reveal it in the main thread was a big part of it. The fact that she hasn't mentioned that there's another part of my claim pretty much cements it for me, as scum!didds would probably want me lynched right now.

I've mentioned this before and I don't know how important it is, but my role seems completely unmodified for me being town

I find this to be a fairly compelling post for your Town Godfather narrative. Do you think, if you were a scum Godfather in this game, you would claim Godfather, or would you prefer to come up with some other claim? Were you disappointed when you found out you had been investigated, wishing you had some other role to claim?

It's hard to say. It would depend on who my partners were, what powers they had, who my district partner was, what they had already claimed, what had or hadn't been said pre-item claim. I think I probably would, though, I usually try to tell something close to the truth as scum.

The SK's dead, so I'm guessing faust hid behind glooble

Who's left here? How about a vote: EFHW

When I read this post just now, I thought it might be a scumslip. When I saw MiX's flip I figured he was on a second scum team, since it didn't indicate Serial Killer. But if the Mafia say had 4 members, they would know that a second scum team would mean too many scum players.

However, I then noticed that it also contained a vote for a Mafia member. It's hard to say exactly how much weight should be put on an out-of-the-gates Day 4 vote on Mafia, particularly when ash immediately then put the issue more or less to bed. But it's worth noting.

Probably ash, looking back at lalight on D1 it seems unlikely that he was mail-mi or raptor's partner. I think we're looking for the fourth mafia partner and not for another team, based on the fact that they've flipped as "mafia" and mix has a unique flavor for his faction; if it was two teams and not mafia+SK I would think that the red flips would have their own name

Was the Mafia/unique name comparison your immediate thought when seeing MiX's flip, or did you spend time thinking about it during that Night?

I saw MiX flip purple and thought "Serial Killer", yeah it's recently been used for another faction recently but that's the standard use for it. The mafia/unique name thing was something that I thought up today, when considering how possible it was that you and didds are partners and taking everyone for a ride (I came up with the answer "not likely")

[Jimmmmm]

I saw MiX flip purple and thought "Serial Killer", yeah it's recently been used for another faction recently but that's the standard use for it.

Is it really? In my mind a second scum team is purple and a Serial Killer is orange. What's the standard colour for a second scum team?

[LaLight]

I saw MiX flip purple and thought "Serial Killer", yeah it's recently been used for another faction recently but that's the standard use for it.

Is it really? In my mind a second scum team is purple and a Serial Killer is orange. What's the standard colour for a second scum team?

interesting. usually another scumteam is orange and sk is purple

[ashersky]

If the mods don't mind, I'll use my super-mod powers to change the subject line of the game to match the day.

Also, I've been reading along, but haven't had much to say.  I appreciate Jimmmm's look into ADK.

[WestCoastDidds]

One thing I can say about Jim’s questions for ADK, is that they have answered all of my questions and provided explanation in our district qt. So, although they’re kind of cagey in the game, they have been forthcoming there.

Also, ADK alluded to the other part of their role, and I think the decision not to share that has helped town.

[Swowl]

If the mods don't mind, I'll use my super-mod powers to change the subject line of the game to match the day.

As far as I am concerned you are always welcome. I have gone ahead and updated it for now though. Thanks for the reminder.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.3:
ADK (2): E!, LaLight
Ashersky (1): ADK
Not Voting (4): WCD, Jimmm, Ashersky, Lekkit

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 4 ends on April 15th at 11:00pm Forum Time. That is in less than 3 days.

[ashersky]

I guess I want to ask:

WCD -- are you leaning town on ADK?  Based on your last post, it seems that way, but I can't be sure.

Lekkit -- any thoughts to share?

Jimmmm -- decided?

No one (including me) has any taste for an LL lynch.  We've covered by WCD is out.

That leaves 2.7, ADK, ashersky, Jimmmm on the table, based on thoughts and statements, yes?

I have a feeling that within the four, we would all vote for the other three.  If that's true, all three are at a theoretical L-1.  Now, we all have preferences, but even taking that into account, it's most likely that we all are at least L-2, yes?

Two of LL, Lekkit, WCD can decide the lynch, most likely.  LL is the only one voting from that group.

Those are just thoughts based on looking at the vote count.

[2.71828.....]

I guess I want to ask:

WCD -- are you leaning town on ADK?  Based on your last post, it seems that way, but I can't be sure.

Lekkit -- any thoughts to share?

Jimmmm -- decided?

No one (including me) has any taste for an LL lynch.  We've covered by WCD is out.

That leaves 2.7, ADK, ashersky, Jimmmm on the table, based on thoughts and statements, yes?

I have a feeling that within the four, we would all vote for the other three.  If that's true, all three are at a theoretical L-1.  Now, we all have preferences, but even taking that into account, it's most likely that we all are at least L-2, yes?

Two of LL, Lekkit, WCD can decide the lynch, most likely.  LL is the only one voting from that group.

Those are just thoughts based on looking at the vote count.

Yeah, basically agree except I think taking jimmmm out. I can see how I could be still in the Lynch pool.

At this point I am ready for another flip.

Flippity flip flop flip.

Let's vote people!!!

[Jimmmmm]

LL is very much on the table for me.

[2.71828.....]

I feel like ADK's defense has been a bit underwhelming. Ashersky sounds like he still wants to win this game (and can win this game), ADK feels like the inevitable end is near

[ashersky]

You know if Jimmmm votes ADK, I'll hammer.

[Jimmmmm]

One thing I can say about Jim’s questions for ADK, is that they have answered all of my questions and provided explanation in our district qt. So, although they’re kind of cagey in the game, they have been forthcoming there.

Also, ADK alluded to the other part of their role, and I think the decision not to share that has helped town.

Do you think he is Town?

[WestCoastDidds]

One thing I can say about Jim’s questions for ADK, is that they have answered all of my questions and provided explanation in our district qt. So, although they’re kind of cagey in the game, they have been forthcoming there.

Also, ADK alluded to the other part of their role, and I think the decision not to share that has helped town.

Do you think he is Town?

I *feel* like ADK is town, but I am 100% sure that my feelings are colored by our interactions. I am trusting by nature, and I went into our chats trusting and haven’t had any alarm bells go off. ADK is not as trusting as I am, and was slower to come around to thinking I’m town, but has been forthcoming regardless.

So, I can share with y’all how things have gone between us but I think my feelings should be taken with a grain of salt because I know I’m compromised by the bias of extended interaction. What I told ADK in our qt is that if either they or Ash are a scum, then either LL or I are being fooled...and I think both LL and I would be fooled. LL has a fondness for Ash that I can see coloring his impressions in the same way I am describing my bias.

PoE has ADK pretty high up. If we want to lynch them to see the flip, and get a couple of other investigative results, I’m cool with that. I think there is a good chance they’re town, but I think that about everyone left.

I wanted to give Lekkit a chance to reread, but he posted that on Saturday....so pitter patter, dude...let’s go!

[A Drowned Kernel]

I feel like ADK's defense has been a bit underwhelming. Ashersky sounds like he still wants to win this game (and can win this game), ADK feels like the inevitable end is near

I feel like the whole case on me is that my claim isn't as good as other people's. You should be wary of that; scum needs to make bold claims at this point in order to have a chance

Do you have any questions for me?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I guess I want to ask:

WCD -- are you leaning town on ADK?  Based on your last post, it seems that way, but I can't be sure.

Lekkit -- any thoughts to share?

Jimmmm -- decided?

No one (including me) has any taste for an LL lynch.  We've covered by WCD is out.

That leaves 2.7, ADK, ashersky, Jimmmm on the table, based on thoughts and statements, yes?

I have a feeling that within the four, we would all vote for the other three.  If that's true, all three are at a theoretical L-1.  Now, we all have preferences, but even taking that into account, it's most likely that we all are at least L-2, yes?

Two of LL, Lekkit, WCD can decide the lynch, most likely.  LL is the only one voting from that group.

Those are just thoughts based on looking at the vote count.

Jim's not on my table. It's you or e for me

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK, what’s your case on e?

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, what’s your case on e?

Mostly that he seems less like he's actually trying to sort things out today than other people. Could just be lazy town, and Jim being alive is a strong argument in his favor, but I'm not entirely unwilling to lynch him today

[2.71828.....]

I feel like ADK's defense has been a bit underwhelming. Ashersky sounds like he still wants to win this game (and can win this game), ADK feels like the inevitable end is near

I feel like the whole case on me is that my claim isn't as good as other people's. You should be wary of that; scum needs to make bold claims at this point in order to have a chance

Do you have any questions for me?

Except, no one else has a "bold" claim. Everyone else has a claim that led to a confirmed scum death.

[2.71828.....]

I'm going to claim.

Firstly D2 present I got was an open neighbourhood with a person of my choice for the end of the Day and it was cayvie. Inbefore you say that this is a convenient claim, ash knows that and can confirm. Bummer she died, because I shared results with her (and ash) so if I am dead today they would come up and back each other up.

Well, I am alive.

N1 I targeted MiX and saw two names: mail-mi and Lekkit. Our collective thought was that MiX is some kind of cop who targeted Lekkit and got guilty result. MiX started the day with breadcrumb and ended as well. Also we thought that he was poisoned by mail-mi, so I was going to wait till toDay to see. Because the other opportunity is that MiX is a third party. he killed mail-mi and he has some kind of other power that he used on Lekkit, and he softclaims the second one. It's really not probable he is a vig, because I think there is only one vig and that the vig would confirm killing mail-mi. Also if Lekkit is activated IC, no way he could target MiX. So MiX has two powers, one of which should be factional kill. That said:

vote: MiX

Also N2 seems like I was roleblocked

LaLight's claim directly led to MiX getting lynched. LaLight is either town or red scum

[2.71828.....]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Ashersky's claim directly led to EFHW getting lynched. Ashersky is either town or purple scum

[2.71828.....]

So is LaLight red scum?

Is ashersky purple scum?

Or is it the third option...that you are scum

[2.71828.....]

So is LaLight red scum?

Is ashersky purple scum?

Or is it the third option...that you are scum

You=ADK

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Ashersky's claim directly led to EFHW getting lynched. Ashersky is either town or purple scum

I 100% believe ash could be red scum here, that is exactly the kind of thing he can and has done as scum

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: EFHW

I tracked EFHW last night -- she targeted Glooble.

Ashersky's claim directly led to EFHW getting lynched. Ashersky is either town or purple scum

I 100% believe ash could be red scum here, that is exactly the kind of thing he can and has done as scum

This is the game I was thinking of

[Lekkit]

Haven't really had the time for a reread. Here's what my gut tells me, though.

LL aided in a MiX lynch. Could still be mafia.
ADK basically claimed godfather day1. Either a bold early mafia play that might pay off or just unlucky town.
Ashersky has one of the more interesting claims. Says EFHW targeted MiX on n2. We obviously don't know everything about MiX's role. But this implies MiX was some kind of bulletproof. This being a bus makes little sense to me. Try to get a mislynch and have a better chance of winning. It seems very risky. I want to kynch Ash less and less the more I think about it.
E is pretty much the same as Ash. Except vigging town during the night would be crazy good for mafia. Don't really think he can be mafia.
Jimmm, his result HAS to be real unless we have 5+1 scum which seems kind of stacked against town. However, I think he should've been able to pick up on ADKs claim. Creating an IC is not something you want as mafia. But it's better than creating two. And also, why let them live if he knew they would become ICs? I think Jimmm should not be lynched today.
WCD HAS to be town. Unless partnered with Jimmm. Which seems very unlikely to me.

The way I see it, today's lynch kind of have to be ADK or LL. And I think I'm willing to gamble and go for ADK, due to roles.

[Jimmmmm]

My gut tells me that ADK is the most likely Town out of him, LL and ash. But if Lekkit and WCD are down with lynching him, I'm happy to get it done to move the game on.

[WestCoastDidds]

My gut tells me that ADK is the most likely Town out of him, LL and ash. But if Lekkit and WCD are down with lynching him, I'm happy to get it done to move the game on.

I’m thinking the same. Let’s choose between Ash and LL. ADK, if he’s a baddie, will still be there.

[WestCoastDidds]

My gut tells me that ADK is the most likely Town out of him, LL and ash. But if Lekkit and WCD are down with lynching him, I'm happy to get it done to move the game on.

I’m thinking the same. Let’s choose between Ash and LL. ADK, if they’re a baddie, will still be there.

Fixed the pronoun. Sorry ADK

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Ash

[2.71828.....]

Ok, sounds like a plan. We can lynch ADK tomorrow if it comes around

Vote: ashersky

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: ash

[Jimmmmm]

I think that was the hammer.

[ashersky]

vote: ashersky

If it wasn't, that is.

I still trust LL.  My lynch order is

Jimmmm > ADK = WCD > 2.7 > LL

[ashersky]

A few more random thoughts:

I think Jimmmm lied about his power.
Hence, WCD isn't cleared.
That series of votes at the end was super scummy, and comes from three of the four non-town reads I have.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmm > ADK = WCD > 2.7 > LL

You think it's more likely that WCD and I are both scum than either e or LL?

[Jimmmmm]

Why do you trust LL?

[ashersky]

Literally none of you think I am non-town, so I'm not sure what the meaning of any that was.

I suppose the remaining scum have a lot of WIFOM thinking to do.

I will say, town increased its chances of losing by a TON by lynching me.

Hey scum -- the smart move is to shoot LL tonight, removing the chance of being caught.  Then just outplay the others during the day.

[ashersky]

Jimmmm > ADK = WCD > 2.7 > LL

You think it's more likely that WCD and I are both scum than either e or LL?

Yes.

Why do you trust LL?

I think I can read him.  The QT.  Could he be playing me by using my predisposition to believe him?  Sure.  If he did, great game by him.  I guess I'm willing to lose to that, and adjust my reads accordingly in the future.  But my gut says town.

[ashersky]

Jimmmm > ADK = WCD > 2.7 > LL

You think it's more likely that WCD and I are both scum than either e or LL?

Wait, not "both" so much as "either."  The equals sign is just saying the scum read is the same level.

[ashersky]

Why did you lynch me?  You know (regardless of your alignment) that I'm town.  You've never incorrectly read my alignment in a game ever, I'm fairly certain.

So you lynched me for information, because you are bored with the day dragging out, or because you are scum.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmm > ADK = WCD > 2.7 > LL

You think it's more likely that WCD and I are both scum than either e or LL?

Wait, not "both" so much as "either."  The equals sign is just saying the scum read is the same level.

Is there a scenario in your head in which she is scum and I am Town? I think by saying WCD is scum, you're saying that I am as well.

[ashersky]

The info is useless, since there's nothing new.  Removing me from the lynchpool does nothing for you since you already knew I was town.  So scum seems most likely.

Unfortunately, on this data point, this applies to all the voters.

[ashersky]

Jimmmm > ADK = WCD > 2.7 > LL

You think it's more likely that WCD and I are both scum than either e or LL?

Wait, not "both" so much as "either."  The equals sign is just saying the scum read is the same level.

Is there a scenario in your head in which she is scum and I am Town? I think by saying WCD is scum, you're saying that I am as well.

Sure.  Your result could have been messed with in a multitude of ways.

[Jimmmmm]

Why did you lynch me?  You know (regardless of your alignment) that I'm town.  You've never incorrectly read my alignment in a game ever, I'm fairly certain.

So you lynched me for information, because you are bored with the day dragging out, or because you are scum.

I lynched you because  you were in my top 2 scum reads. I know Lekkit and WCD are Town. I'm pretty sure e is Town. My gut says ADK is Town. That leaves you and LL. I don't know why you think I know you're Town (apart from that you've been hammered and haven't 'fessed up).

[ashersky]

Why did you lynch me?  You know (regardless of your alignment) that I'm town.  You've never incorrectly read my alignment in a game ever, I'm fairly certain.

So you lynched me for information, because you are bored with the day dragging out, or because you are scum.

I lynched you because  you were in my top 2 scum reads. I know Lekkit and WCD are Town. I'm pretty sure e is Town. My gut says ADK is Town. That leaves you and LL. I don't know why you think I know you're Town (apart from that you've been hammered and haven't 'fessed up).

I think you know I'm town because in every single game we've played together when I've been non-town, you've known.  And it hasn't been because you just always assume I'm not town. 

You've also correctly defended me every time.  Until this time.  Which is odd to me.  And odd behavior could be an indicator of a non-town alignment.

[ashersky]

I wonder if No Lynch would have been a better option than a mislynch here.

[Jimmmmm]

Sure.  Your result could have been messed with in a multitude of ways.

How many ways can you think of? Godfather is claimed, JOAT is taken. The only other way I can think of redirecting. Certainly not a multitude.

[ashersky]

Anything else I can share for anyone who is here?

Assume one death, that's five alive tomorrow.  If LL is town, he dies at night.  So IC + 4.  A lot of folks want to say WCD is town, so 3 options.  If scum survives, kill IC.

That's LYLO with 1 v 2 where WCD is still alive -- and you can go 50/50 if you still want to believe WCD is town.  I believe in this scenario, Jimmmm is in the final three, so no confirmation of his claim.  And Jimmmm is mislynched if WCD is scum.

That's an impressive win, WCD!

[ashersky]

Sure.  Your result could have been messed with in a multitude of ways.

How many ways can you think of? Godfather is claimed, JOAT is taken. The only other way I can think of redirecting. Certainly not a multitude.

Well, your power is an invented one related to districts.  I can invent plenty of others: any powers that target your district target another instead is an easy one.

Targeting a player would necessarily require you being the target -- so redirected you, as you mention.
If it is a district power like yours, the sky is the limit.

[ashersky]

If LL is scum, he probably shoots Lekkit and needs to survive tomorrow by getting ADK lynched, I think.

In all scenarios, ADK and Jimmmm will survive every night, so 3-man lylo will be those two plus whomever survives the culling, or the scum player if they are town.

[ashersky]

My best guess is:

Day 5: Lekkit, WCD, ADK, Jimmmm, 2.7
Day 6: WCD, Jimmmm, 2.7

Man, I keep forgetting 2.7 is here.  He could definitely be scum I guess, but not using that vig shot?  Maybe it is day vig only, and he didn't want to be too scummy about it?

[ashersky]

Ok, sounds like a plan. We can lynch ADK tomorrow if it comes around

Vote: ashersky

This 360 to vote me is pretty scummy and out of nowhere.

[ashersky]

So remaining players, if town:

3 VTs (Jimmm, 2.7, WCD)
1 Godfather (ADK)
1 IC + secret gift (Lekkit)
1 Motion Detector (LL)

I mean, someone's lying about something.  From QT posts, plus claims, LL's claim seems legit to me.  Lekkit was mod confirmed.  2.7 was mod confirmed when his shot didn't work again.

That leaves Jimmmm, WCD, and ADK with unconfirmed power claims.  Again, aligning well with (supporting?) my reads.

[ashersky]

Possible lies:

Jimmm, WCD, ADK could be 100% lies.
2.7 could be partially lying -- only dayvig, for example.

Lekkit isn't lying, and I guessLL could have made it up really well, but I doubt it.




These are just thoughts on role/power, not alignment specifically.

[ashersky]

So in my final estimation, scum is in {Jimmmm, WCD, ADK, 2.7}.

I think I would prefer to lynch one of Jimmm/ADK on D5, WCD/2.7 on D6.

Regardless, Jimmmm before WCD, as stated, to at least partially confirm claims (who knows if he would even flip "District Cop").

Best case would have been to lynch ADK today instead of me.

[Swowl]

THREAD LOCKED!

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.Final:

Ashersky (4): ADK, WCD, Jimmm, E!
ADK (1): LaLight
Not Voting (2): Ashersky, Lekkit

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
Night 4 starts now and ends on April 16th at 12:15am Forum Time.
Please submit night actions within 36 hours.

[Swowl]

Ashersky has been lynched! They were Gale, the Town Aligned Tracker.

Though they tried, the Capitol soldiers could not seem to remove the binoculars from their neck as they whisked the body away....

[Swowl]

E! has died at Night!
They were Katniss Everdeen, the Town Aligned 1-Shot Anytime Vigilante.

It was astounding the deathly cold grip that they kept on their bow and arrow... even dead... being taken away...

[Swowl]

Vote Count 5.0:

Not Voting (2): Lekkit, LaLight, ADK, WCD, Jimmm

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch
Day 5 starts now and ends on April 23th at 2:45am Forum Time.



THREAD UNLOCKED!

[Jimmmmm]

Noo my buddy!

WIFOM abounds I suppose. Anything to report LL?

[LaLight]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

[WestCoastDidds]

Damn it!

Okay, Jimmm.....ADK? Or LL?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Huh.

I think I have to reevaluate jim

[Lekkit]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Without giving to much away, this is the correct result.

[WestCoastDidds]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Without giving to much away, this is the correct result.

What is there to hold back? Lets do this..

[LaLight]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Without giving to much away, this is the correct result.

that's... weird. they told me nothing at all. i can't think of any role doing this.

anyway, Lekkit, what are your thoughts?

[WestCoastDidds]

His gift from the sky could have made him immune to investigation?

[LaLight]

His gift from the sky could have made him immune to investigation?

oh i forgot about that.

anyway i should've gotten like no result in this case

[WestCoastDidds]

His gift from the sky could have made him immune to investigation?

oh i forgot about that.

anyway i should've gotten like no result in this case

What would happen if he had RB'ed you?

[LaLight]

His gift from the sky could have made him immune to investigation?

oh i forgot about that.

anyway i should've gotten like no result in this case

What would happen if he had RB'ed you?

i would get "no result"

that's how i would mod it, but i can see how this can be different.

actually that would be awesome if he rbed me

[Lekkit]

I really believe LL is town. There is no reason for him to target anyone without killing them if leaving me alive.

[Lekkit]

And guessing the no result would be crazy.

[Lekkit]

For the record, i believe no results given is the same as "no results".

[Lekkit]

Therefore it has to be either Jimmm, ADK or Jimm+WCD.

[Lekkit]

Either way, that means we should lynch Jimm today. And ADK or WCD tomorrow depending on flip.

[Lekkit]

Actually, Jimmm could be partnered with someone else. If we're looking at a 5-person mafia team. Which, again. I doubt.

[Lekkit]

Absolute worst case is ADK + LL. Then we lose if we lynch Jimmm. Still feeling that lynch, though.

[WestCoastDidds]

Lekkit, what was your sky gift?  And what did you mean "without giving too much away"?

[WestCoastDidds]

So in my final estimation, scum is in {Jimmmm, WCD, ADK, 2.7}.

I think I would prefer to lynch one of Jimmm/ADK on D5, WCD/2.7 on D6.

Regardless, Jimmmm before WCD, as stated, to at least partially confirm claims (who knows if he would even flip "District Cop").

Best case would have been to lynch ADK today instead of me.

I just wanted to be able to find this easier

[LaLight]

vote: Jimmmmm

[LaLight]

i think there's one scum left and it's jimmmmm or ADK. pretty much solved

[LaLight]

also, i realised something. why did scum kill no one on N1 and i think N2?

[LaLight]

the only logical explanation i can come up with is that they shot MiX both nights, and he was twice bulletproof. anything i could miss?

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK, where are you on Jimm v LL?

[LaLight]

the only logical explanation i can come up with is that they shot MiX both nights, and he was twice bulletproof. anything i could miss?

yeah, mail-mi could've shot MiX N1 (i mded MiX and there was Lekkit and mail-mi) and someone N2.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm leaning toward Jim but would have to do a reread. Lalight being honest about getting no result isn't necessarily exonerating, I believe he's a motion detector but he could be a scum motion detector. It would depend on what exactly Lekkit's power was

[Swowl]

Technical Error with QT. Now Resolved.
If you were supposed to have Results in your QT at start of day and did not, please check there again.

[Lekkit]

LL, got results?

[Lekkit]

I'm leaning toward Jim but would have to do a reread. Lalight being honest about getting no result isn't necessarily exonerating, I believe he's a motion detector but he could be a scum motion detector. It would depend on what exactly Lekkit's power was

You think he targets two people with a claimed watcher afoot?

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm leaning toward Jim but would have to do a reread. Lalight being honest about getting no result isn't necessarily exonerating, I believe he's a motion detector but he could be a scum motion detector. It would depend on what exactly Lekkit's power was

You think he targets two people with a claimed watcher afoot?

What two people?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm leaning toward Jim but would have to do a reread. Lalight being honest about getting no result isn't necessarily exonerating, I believe he's a motion detector but he could be a scum motion detector. It would depend on what exactly Lekkit's power was

You think he targets two people with a claimed watcher afoot?

How would a watcher catch him targeting two people?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m confused.

But it sounds like LL has a result, or maybe no result now

Lekkit, what was your sky gift? Or what reason do you have to withhold it?

[Jimmmmm]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Why Lekkit? Surely he's the worst person to target. I think that's worth a lynch right there.

[Lekkit]

I'm leaning toward Jim but would have to do a reread. Lalight being honest about getting no result isn't necessarily exonerating, I believe he's a motion detector but he could be a scum motion detector. It would depend on what exactly Lekkit's power was

You think he targets two people with a claimed watcher afoot?

How would a watcher catch him targeting two people?

Since he claimed to have MDd me, if i caught him target someone else he'd be gone.

[Lekkit]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Why Lekkit? Surely he's the worst person to target. I think that's worth a lynch right there.

Honestly, I thought either LL or me would be dead today. Most likely me.

[LaLight]

LL, got results?

no result

[LaLight]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Why Lekkit? Surely he's the worst person to target. I think that's worth a lynch right there.

what? I thought he will be killed, so I targeted him to see who killed him

[LaLight]

the only logical explanation i can come up with is that they shot MiX both nights, and he was twice bulletproof. anything i could miss?

yeah, mail-mi could've shot MiX N1 (i mded MiX and there was Lekkit and mail-mi) and someone N2.

is everyone just ignoring that it would make no sense for me to have incriminating results on MiX and then shoot him? How much sense does it make? How could you really think I am scum?

[LaLight]

Doublevote: Jimmmmm

[Jimmmmm]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Why Lekkit? Surely he's the worst person to target. I think that's worth a lynch right there.

Honestly, I thought either LL or me would be dead today. Most likely me.

Right, but targeting you gives him one chance to catch scum (if scum targets you). Targeting someone else gives him two chances to catch scum (if he targets the victim or scum) and guarantees he can create an IC (unless he's Roleblocked or something). Instead he did the only thing which has the possibility of providing no information.

[Jimmmmm]

Doublevote: Jimmmmm

What is this?

[Jimmmmm]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Why Lekkit? Surely he's the worst person to target. I think that's worth a lynch right there.

what? I thought he will be killed, so I targeted him to see who killed him

Did you consider WIFOM? Did you consider that targeting Lekkit was the only move which was not guaranteed* to create an IC?

[Jimmmmm]

I don't know what this doublevote business is about, but if anyone else is thinking of voting for me, remember that we have plenty of time.

[LaLight]

Doublevote: Jimmmmm

What is this?

nothing, I amjust sure you're scum now

[LaLight]

mods didn't send me any results, but I mded Lekkit so idk

Why Lekkit? Surely he's the worst person to target. I think that's worth a lynch right there.

what? I thought he will be killed, so I targeted him to see who killed him

Did you consider WIFOM? Did you consider that targeting Lekkit was the only move which was not guaranteed* to create an IC?

i didn't. but Lekkit is IC and Watcher, and targeting him guarantees that either he gets killed and i get result or he doesn't and he gets result.

[Jimmmmm]

i didn't. but Lekkit is IC and Watcher, and targeting him guarantees that either he gets killed and i get result or he doesn't and he gets result.

And yet, we didn't get a result. I find it hard to believe that after all this time with a Motion Detector role, you would use it so ineffectively when we most needed it.

Target me, ADK or e and you either catch scum or clear your target.

[LaLight]

i didn't. but Lekkit is IC and Watcher, and targeting him guarantees that either he gets killed and i get result or he doesn't and he gets result.

And yet, we didn't get a result. I find it hard to believe that after all this time with a Motion Detector role, you would use it so ineffectively when we most needed it.

Target me, ADK or e and you either catch scum or clear your target.

okay, okay, I didn't think about it

[Jimmmmm]

okay, okay, I didn't think about it

Because you're a potato?

[LaLight]

okay, okay, I didn't think about it

Because you're a potato?

probably. it was just pretty obvious for me that either me or Lekkit would be killed, so i didn't doublethink

[Jimmmmm]

okay, okay, I didn't think about it

Because you're a potato?

probably. it was just pretty obvious for me that either me or Lekkit would be killed, so i didn't doublethink

Why? Surely having claimed investigative roles makes the nightkill less predictable.

[LaLight]

okay, okay, I didn't think about it

Because you're a potato?

probably. it was just pretty obvious for me that either me or Lekkit would be killed, so i didn't doublethink

Why? Surely having claimed investigative roles makes the nightkill less predictable.

well, yeah, but it's still high risk

[Jimmmmm]

Wait Lekkit did you get a Watcher result?

[LaLight]

Wait Lekkit did you get a Watcher result?

you know it's not a tracker, right?

[Jimmmmm]

Wait Lekkit did you get a Watcher result?

you know it's not a tracker, right?

I did. And then I apparently forgot. Carry on.

[Jimmmmm]

Out of curiosity, who did you watch?

[Lekkit]

Wait Lekkit did you get a Watcher result?

No result for me. Not surprising, though. I watched LaLight. Considered watching WCD, but didn't.

[Lekkit]

Also, I don't really think it'll matter. But I'm immune to ivestigation.

[Lekkit]

My night action is*

[Jimmmmm]

Also, I don't really think it'll matter. But I'm immune to ivestigation.

That would have been very useful to claim yesterday.

[Jimmmmm]

I really believe LL is town. There is no reason for him to target anyone without killing them if leaving me alive.

I think this is wrong.

Say LL is scum (and alone - I don't even want to think about the possibility of having more than one left). One thing he definitely couldn't do last Night is to both kill you and target you (or rather claim to target you, regardless of what he does). He'd have to "catch scum", and then we'd lynch him and the person he claimed to catch in some order Today and Tomorrow. So he'd have to kill and target different people, which would result in him creating an IC anyway. It seems likely that WCD would be high on your watch list, so e seems like a good candidate for someone unlikely to be watched but also unlikely to be lynched.

So scum LL had two choices: Kill you and IC someone else, or let you live. Possible reasons to pick the latter include: He thought Town him would target you; He preferred keeping you and your reads around to creating a new IC with less preferable reads; He thought keeping you alive would clear him in people's minds.

Also note than e was my biggest supporter; either I killed him so that I could make this argument or someone else killed him to help make me easier to lynch.

[Lekkit]

Also, I don't really think it'll matter. But I'm immune to ivestigation.

That would have been very useful to claim yesterday.

Why?

[Lekkit]

I really believe LL is town. There is no reason for him to target anyone without killing them if leaving me alive.

I think this is wrong.

Say LL is scum (and alone - I don't even want to think about the possibility of having more than one left). One thing he definitely couldn't do last Night is to both kill you and target you (or rather claim to target you, regardless of what he does). He'd have to "catch scum", and then we'd lynch him and the person he claimed to catch in some order Today and Tomorrow. So he'd have to kill and target different people, which would result in him creating an IC anyway. It seems likely that WCD would be high on your watch list, so e seems like a good candidate for someone unlikely to be watched but also unlikely to be lynched.

So scum LL had two choices: Kill you and IC someone else, or let you live. Possible reasons to pick the latter include: He thought Town him would target you; He preferred keeping you and your reads around to creating a new IC with less preferable reads; He thought keeping you alive would clear him in people's minds.

Scum LL would kill the IC with Watcher powers and "IC" WCD. WCD is pretty much IC anyways.

[Lekkit]

Also, LL, would you mind sharing who I watched N3?

[Lekkit]

I'd also like to point out that LL was on both Raptor and EFHW before she was shot.

[Jimmmmm]

Also, I don't really think it'll matter. But I'm immune to ivestigation.

That would have been very useful to claim yesterday.

Why?

I thought this meant that you were immune to things such as Motion Detector, but I guess not.

[Jimmmmm]

Scum LL would kill the IC with Watcher powers and "IC" WCD. WCD is pretty much IC anyways.

Because of the risk of you watching e?

[Lekkit]

Scum LL would kill the IC with Watcher powers and "IC" WCD. WCD is pretty much IC anyways.

Because of the risk of you watching e?

Yes.

[LaLight]

Also, LL, would you mind sharing who I watched N3?

2.7

[LaLight]

the only logical explanation i can come up with is that they shot MiX both nights, and he was twice bulletproof. anything i could miss?

yeah, mail-mi could've shot MiX N1 (i mded MiX and there was Lekkit and mail-mi) and someone N2.

is everyone just ignoring that it would make no sense for me to have incriminating results on MiX and then shoot him? How much sense does it make? How could you really think I am scum?

@Jimmmmm, are you intentionally ignoring this?

[WestCoastDidds]

Wait Lekkit did you get a Watcher result?

No result for me. Not surprising, though. I watched LaLight. Considered watching WCD, but didn't.

Sorry, for the kids in back....watcher sees if they targeted someone? Or sees if they were targeted by someone else?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wait Lekkit did you get a Watcher result?

No result for me. Not surprising, though. I watched LaLight. Considered watching WCD, but didn't.

Sorry, for the kids in back....watcher sees if they targeted someone? Or sees if they were targeted by someone else?

Watcher sees who targeted a player, i.e. if I watch Alice and Bob kills Alice, I get the result "Bob targeted Alice". Tracker sees who the player you targeted targeted themself, i.e. if I were a tracker I would have to target Bob to get the same result

[A Drowned Kernel]

Voting jim here does give the most protection against a two-person team, since didds and lalight both being scum would require them to have an inherent godfather

Or that didd's item also made her investigation immune, I realized as I typed that sentence. Does anyone more familiar with the books think that that's plausible for the mockingjay pin? That's a pretty good-aligned item, right?

[WestCoastDidds]

Voting jim here does give the most protection against a two-person team, since didds and lalight both being scum would require them to have an inherent godfather

Or that didd's item also made her investigation immune, I realized as I typed that sentence. Does anyone more familiar with the books think that that's plausible for the mockingjay pin? That's a pretty good-aligned item, right?

The mockingjay pin is definitely good-aligned.  I thought it would be more powerful than it was, but in the books it is the symbol of the resistance. It begins as a good luck charm for Katniss and then becomes a symbol of those who seek to overthrow the capital’s oppression. It’s the symbol that is on the front cover of all the books.

I’m not investigation immune. : /

[Lekkit]

Voting jim here does give the most protection against a two-person team, since didds and lalight both being scum would require them to have an inherent godfather

Or that didd's item also made her investigation immune, I realized as I typed that sentence. Does anyone more familiar with the books think that that's plausible for the mockingjay pin? That's a pretty good-aligned item, right?

There wouldn't be an investigation immune item and a godfather item, right? WCD did target cayvie on the night she died. However, we also know that unless Ash was lying, EFHW with a non targetting role targeted MiX the same night. It seems IMPOSSIBLE for WCD to be mafia without Jimmm also being mafia.

[Lekkit]

There is a slight chance she's in the same faction as MiX. That would require godfather. And we can be fairly certain MiX had some kind of bulletproof. Inherit bulletproof and godfather for the two person faction? I doubt it.

[Lekkit]

Actually...  Vote: Jimmm

[Lekkit]

Also, LL, would you mind sharing who I watched N3?

2.7

LL knew I watched e before. Not killing the watcher and instead kill someone I watched before seems risky.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Jimmmmm

Flip, flip, flip flippity, flip

[Swowl]

THREAD LOCKED!

[Swowl]

Vote Count 5.FINAL:

Jimmm (3): LaLight, Lekkit, WCD
Not Voting (2): ADK, Jimmm

With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.
Night 5 starts now and ends on April 19th at 4:00pm Forum Time.


***If players would like a quicker night phase - please submit that information in your personal QTs.***

[Swowl]

Jimmmmm has been lynched!
They were Cesar Flickerman, the Town Aligned 1-Shot District Cop!

No one really knew all that much about good old Cesar. Well, except for the one thing that EVERYONE knew about him... he just loved to be in the spotlight.

[Swowl]

I have now received all confirmations of YES in regards to a shorter Night. Normally I would of shortened it to 24 hours instead of 48 hours. As we are past the 24 hour mark, it will just start later today in order to hopefully give all players time to view this message.

Day 6 will now be starting TODAY, April 18th, at 10:00pm Forum Time. That is 5 hours and 30 minutes from the time of this message.

[Swowl]

*BOOOOM*
A cannon shot echos throughout the Arena.

ATTENTION TRIBUTES - As this year's Hunger Games nears its end, we would like to thank all of our participants as well as applaud those still left standing. Good luck, and may the odds be ever in your favor!



Lekkit has died at night!
They were Primrose Everdeen, the Town Aligned Activated Innocent Child.

We will all never forget little Prim, always with that hair bow... like it was attached to her little head...

[Swowl]

Vote Count 6.0:

Not Voting (2): ADK, WCD, LaLight

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
Day 6 starts now and ends on April 26th at 7:15pm Forum Time.

[Swowl]

Apologies from the MODs. There was a small celebration that turned into a large celebration, and the thread opening was delayed.


THREAD UNLOCKED!

[LaLight]

ok, so obviously vote: ADK

[LaLight]

WCD, if you have any second thoughts for some reason, I remind you that me being scum makes zero sense, because of no kills N1 and N2.

I think ADK was trying to put shade on you as well last Day. I don't know what is there to say, he's in a pretty tight spot.

[LaLight]

I motion detected ADK and saw Lekkit as a result. This all can be crazy "Lekkit watched ADK and Didds is Godfather" situation, but I don't really believe Lekkit would watch ADK.

[LaLight]

unvote, I am getting paranoid

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy, LaLight!

Okay, you MD’d ADK last night?

[LaLight]

Howdy, LaLight!

Okay, you MD’d ADK last night?

yeah

[LaLight]

I don't know if Lekkit was 1-shot investigation immune or forever, so I mded ADK

[WestCoastDidds]

But ADK is a godfather...

[A Drowned Kernel]

It ain't me

I'm trying to decide how likely it is that LaLight is just scum here. I obviously didn't target Lekkit last night but it's plausible that Lekkit targetted me. Though if he thought things through he would realize that that might make things hard for town!LaLight, if Didds really is scum

Didds, I've been very trusting of you this game. Why should I think it's LaLight here?

[A Drowned Kernel]

But ADK is a godfather...

Wouldn't affect tracker type abilities, just alignment-checking ones

[WestCoastDidds]

But ADK is a godfather...

Wouldn't affect tracker type abilities, just alignment-checking ones

Got it, thanks

[A Drowned Kernel]

Actually, no, why would Lekkit watch me? That makes zero sense

Fuck it

vote: LaLight

[A Drowned Kernel]

Didds, if you fooled me, good job

[A Drowned Kernel]

(If you're town please post something so I don't die of a heart attack)

[LaLight]

Actually, no, why would Lekkit watch me? That makes zero sense

Fuck it

vote: LaLight

yeah, exactly

vote: ADK

[LaLight]

It ain't me

I'm trying to decide how likely it is that LaLight is just scum here. I obviously didn't target Lekkit last night but it's plausible that Lekkit targetted me. Though if he thought things through he would realize that that might make things hard for town!LaLight, if Didds really is scum

Didds, I've been very trusting of you this game. Why should I think it's LaLight here?

this post is a bright example of ADK trying to put a shade on Didds which was COPPED by a flipped TOWN COP

[A Drowned Kernel]

It ain't me

I'm trying to decide how likely it is that LaLight is just scum here. I obviously didn't target Lekkit last night but it's plausible that Lekkit targetted me. Though if he thought things through he would realize that that might make things hard for town!LaLight, if Didds really is scum

Didds, I've been very trusting of you this game. Why should I think it's LaLight here?

this post is a bright example of ADK trying to put a shade on Didds which was COPPED by a flipped TOWN COP

This post is an example of ADK being really nervous about screwing it up at the end

[LaLight]

and of course you're leaving Didds alive, you had a neighbourhood the whole game. But i really hope it won't work.

[LaLight]

It ain't me

I'm trying to decide how likely it is that LaLight is just scum here. I obviously didn't target Lekkit last night but it's plausible that Lekkit targetted me. Though if he thought things through he would realize that that might make things hard for town!LaLight, if Didds really is scum

Didds, I've been very trusting of you this game. Why should I think it's LaLight here?

this post is a bright example of ADK trying to put a shade on Didds which was COPPED by a flipped TOWN COP

This post is an example of ADK being really nervous about screwing it up at the end

yeah, cause your whole team got wiped out and you managed to live to top 3?

[A Drowned Kernel]

(If you're town please post something so I don't die of a heart attack)

For real, I'm dying here

[WestCoastDidds]

The pressure! Y’all are killing me

[A Drowned Kernel]

The pressure! Y’all are killing me

Thank god

[LaLight]

I remind you that me being scum makes zero sense, because of no kills N1 and N2.

ADK, respond to this.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I remind you that me being scum makes zero sense, because of no kills N1 and N2.

ADK, respond to this.

Damn if I know. I'm 2-shot bulletproof but I don't know how likely it is that I would have been a nightkill. Scum targetting MiX and he was bullterproof?

[WestCoastDidds]

I remind you that me being scum makes zero sense, because of no kills N1 and N2.

ADK, respond to this.

LaLi, how does the lack of night kills clear you?

[LaLight]

Scum targetting MiX and he was bullterproof?

Exactly.

I had a damning result on MiX N1, it would've made zero sense for me to kill him N1 or N2.

The result was known by ash and cayvie.

Also what the hell, you have two roles? Godfather and Bulletproof? I guess make sense for scum.

[LaLight]

also also, why would town pick a rose, which is obviously scum thing, if we talk about the movies

but well, this is not a concrete evidence.

[A Drowned Kernel]

also also, why would town pick a rose, which is obviously scum thing, if we talk about the movies

but well, this is not a concrete evidence.

I saw the first movie, once, years and years ago. My thought wasn't "a rose, that's the main bad guy!", it was "I'm pretty low down the list, I wonder what the rose does, I bet no one else picks it"

[LaLight]

WCD.

My case on ADK is that I can not be scum because of lack of nightkills (I saw MiX targeting mail-mi, but I am sure it was also mail-mi trying to kill MiX) and he is scum, because he has two roles, like no one else who's town did, and that he tried to put a shade on you. That's it

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: ADK

Sorry f I screwed it up!

[LaLight]

oh my god

[LaLight]

this game nearly gave me a heart attack

[LaLight]

I am sorry WCD!

[LaLight]

for the last TWO WEEKS I wasn't able to sleep before I rolled every possible option in my head.

Giving in a neighbourhood with ash was freaking scary

Losing all the teammates was awful

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m sorry ADK! I should have believed in you!

[LaLight]

oh my god this game

[A Drowned Kernel]

Man

Good job LaLight

[A Drowned Kernel]

(LaLight for MVP)

[WestCoastDidds]

I am the worst. I kept looking at Ashes list, and he trusted DaDark so fully.

Uggggghhhhhhh

[WestCoastDidds]

(LaLight for MVP)

Obvi, and yeah

[WestCoastDidds]

Man

Good job LaLight

I’m so sorry! I was even like “why didn’t he lead with the result, that weird” then outthought myself.

[LaLight]

Man

Good job LaLight

I’m so sorry! I was even like “why didn’t he lead with the result, that weird” then outthought myself.

Here I outthought myself. I was thinking you and ADK set up something something he is inv immune and you want to catch me on a lie, but then I decided to claim results nevertheless.

The decision to kill 2.7 was the scariest one. I chose Jimmmmm first and then changed in the last moment

[LaLight]

also IC watcher, man

[LaLight]

I REALLY want to see speccy.

[LaLight]

funnily enough, N1 and N2 kills were me (I was a traitor converted by kill) and MiX because of our miscommunication with EFHW

[Swowl]

VC 6.Final

ADK (2): LaLight, WCD
LaLight (1): ADK

ADK has been Lynched!

The game is over. Scum team of Mail-Mi, EFHW, Raptor & Traitor LaLight win!

LaLight is MVP.

Thread Unlocked


Sorry all on mobile. More formal stuff to follow.

[mail-mi]

Woot! Lalight taking us to victory!

[LaLight]

Woot! Lalight taking us to victory!

I knew the team beforehand. But i was too afraid to breadcrumb, so good thing you shot me N1!

[LaLight]

as I told ash, I was trying to draw the kill with my premature claiming, and I kind of was

[Jimmmmm]

Guys! We had plenty of time. Why lynch me in my sleep 5 days before deadline?? I had plenty more to say.

[mail-mi]

as I told ash, I was trying to draw the kill with my premature claiming, and I kind of was

Funnily enough, none of us thought you were the traitor. 

[LaLight]

Guys! We had plenty of time. Why lynch me in my sleep 5 days before deadline?? I had plenty more to say.

all according to plan

[LaLight]

I think town played pretty well. I was constantly terrified

[MiX]

Oh my goooooooooooooooooood town lost with an IC watcher. I helped town so much that game how can you loooose. This game's great, just not for me lol I threw so hard. Good job scum, I would've given up in your shoes.

I didn't expect the traitor at all, I was so confused why no one was dying, I actually assumed there was another SK that won with me that just wasn't shooting. That's why I claimed SK to Lekkit, to make sure everyone thought I was SK because at that point I had to believe there was a way for me to win while dead.

Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/A7gS9vTSBWy

I think town played pretty well. I was constantly terrified

Other than not voting the real scum, town played fine. The three D1 wagons were all on scum! That's insaaane, it's part of why I shot mail-mi. Then I kinda stopped reading for real and that was my downfall.

Who were you going to shoot instead of me?

[LaLight]

Oh my goooooooooooooooooood town lost with an IC watcher. I helped town so much that game how can you loooose. This game's great, just not for me lol I threw so hard. Good job scum, I would've given up in your shoes.

I didn't expect the traitor at all, I was so confused why no one was dying, I actually assumed there was another SK that won with me that just wasn't shooting. That's why I claimed SK to Lekkit, to make sure everyone thought I was SK because at that point I had to believe there was a way for me to win while dead.

Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/A7gS9vTSBWy

I think town played pretty well. I was constantly terrified

Other than not voting the real scum, town played fine. The three D1 wagons were all on scum! That's insaaane, it's part of why I shot mail-mi. Then I kinda stopped reading for real and that was my downfall.

Who were you going to shoot instead of me?

It was like Jimmmmm/ADK/Glooble I think

here's scum QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/45iNq5TdxAN

[MiX]

Technically SK QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/Gu5bQPHuSGQ

So the reason I gave the IC (Lekkit claimed IC to me D1) watcher is because I claimed to be inventor and had them make a list of items they would rather recieve, which at the top was camouflage, followed by camera. I was going to give camouflage, but then the mods realized that they gave me 6 items to invent instead of the remaining 4 (having 6 unclaimed items is why I wanted to item claim D1 btw, that felt weird but I never asked for a clarification) which meant I lost the camouflage to give, which means now I have to give the camera. I then didn't kill them next night because I thought they would flip with the camera, which would clearly give too much suspicion on me since I was the neighbor.

So, there's that story.

Can we get mod and district QTs?

[LaLight]

My QT with ash. Read it, it's awesome! Also sorry ash for not posting there, I was trying too much to get into town mindset so I didn't want to claim scum and I didn't want to lie to you either.

[Lekkit]

Really enjoyed the game! Well played by LaLight! I really believed you were town until the start of the night where I started to doubt it.

[ashersky]

Fantastic game!  Great play by LL.

Traitor makes complete sense -- I never read him as scum because he wasn't traditional (mafia OR SK).  Traitor didn't even cross my mind, and that's my bad, but all credit goes to LL for one of the greatest forum mafia performances ever.

[ashersky]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

[2.71828.....]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

I put you third, so you can't blame me

[Lekkit]

I put you last. I submitted me and MiX highest. Then everyone else in sign up order.

[LaLight]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

I was afraid of you getting a strong power role, I am sorry!

[ashersky]

I put you last. I submitted me and MiX highest. Then everyone else in sign up order.

Buy why?

[LaLight]

Fantastic game!  Great play by LL.

Traitor makes complete sense -- I never read him as scum because he wasn't traditional (mafia OR SK).  Traitor didn't even cross my mind, and that's my bad, but all credit goes to LL for one of the greatest forum mafia performances ever.

Thank you! This is amazing to hear from you.

[Lekkit]

I put you last. I submitted me and MiX highest. Then everyone else in sign up order.

Buy why?

Didn't want to dig through the old games just to rank people for a draft of items that we didn't know what they did. I put MiX up there because he was my neighbour.

[2.71828.....]

Also, jimmmm has been lynched as a claimed cop more than anyone else I know.

Why we like lynching cop!jimmmmm is beyond me.

[Jimmmmm]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

Almost certainly because you were last to sign up and people didn't change the order that much.

[ashersky]

I put you last. I submitted me and MiX highest. Then everyone else in sign up order.

Buy why?

Didn't want to dig through the old games just to rank people for a draft of items that we didn't know what they did. I put MiX up there because he was my neighbour.

I get not wanting to look stuff up, but why go..."okay, ash last, me and my partner first, the rest in sign-up order"?

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, then just needed to follow the plan I had: 7 alive, 1 scum, 3 choices: ashersky, ADK, and LaLight. Doesn't matter the order, just lynch those three.

I think LaLight's biggest key to winning was getting jimmmm lynched. Which was very well done.

[ashersky]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

Almost certainly because you were last to sign up and people didn't change the order that much.

The mod comments in the speccy made it seem like that is not the case.

[2.71828.....]

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/8Z23t2WssgcC

District qt with jimmmm for anyone interested

[A Drowned Kernel]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

I put myself at the top and everyone else on full random, I'd have to go back and look at where I put you

[A Drowned Kernel]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

I put myself at the top and everyone else on full random, I'd have to go back and look at where I put you

You were third from the top for me

[Lekkit]

I put you last. I submitted me and MiX highest. Then everyone else in sign up order.

Buy why?

Didn't want to dig through the old games just to rank people for a draft of items that we didn't know what they did. I put MiX up there because he was my neighbour.

I get not wanting to look stuff up, but why go..."okay, ash last, me and my partner first, the rest in sign-up order"?

You were the last to sign up.

[EFHW]

Woot! Lalight taking us to victory!

Lalight saves the day! RMVP! (really MVP)

[EFHW]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

I put myself at the top and everyone else on full random, I'd have to go back and look at where I put you

You were third from the top for me

I had you 8th as an unpredictable element.

[WestCoastDidds]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

To my mind you are the best, and most threatening player as scum in the game. It was a compliment, but I’m sorry if it made you feel crappy. That would never be my intent.

And I’m glad that you’re back.

[cayvie]

grrrrrrrrr boooooooo hisssssss

i'll win a game eventually

[cayvie]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

your proclivity for murdering innocent people in their sleep

(i ranked you like 4th from last)

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/aRpduH6LcTg if you wanna see all my different rankings i submitted

[cayvie]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

your proclivity for murdering innocent people in their sleep

(i ranked you like 4th from last)

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/aRpduH6LcTg if you wanna see all my different rankings i submitted

but i mean if you want the real answer, i think my convo with EFHW in our thread covers it

[ashersky]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

your proclivity for murdering innocent people in their sleep

(i ranked you like 4th from last)

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/aRpduH6LcTg if you wanna see all my different rankings i submitted

but i mean if you want the real answer, i think my convo with EFHW in our thread covers it

If I vigged you, it wasn't my very first game.  That was M10, I think, which you didn't play.

[mail-mi]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

As scum, I had no idea who my buddies qere, so I just tried to create chaos, and youre pretty good as town so you and Faust got sent to the bottom

[Swowl]

Thank you everyone for playing!
Congratulations to Skum Team!

Here is the link to the
Speccy - https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/A7gS9vTSBWy
Skum - https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/45iNq5TdxAN

Districts (in order)
1 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/FbDZ2qbnRfHjR
2 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/FbDZ2qbnRfHjR
3 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/8Z23t2WssgcC
4 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/kbhHg5dPk5zZ
5 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/WsjyYpQtrzCB
6 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/R5M7VZsWVqHcE
7 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/DUnUQVNiaqx
8 https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/ytFgbSEGbsfM

Anyone that wants to share their own QTs may do so freely.


Note - The Sponsors - This was supposed to be a fun little addition to the game with the inherit ability to be able to slightly, very slightly, weigh things back in the favor of the current underdog. It also ofc fit the theme fantastically which we liked. If we could of changed a small thing or two, we may of, but all in all we were pleased with it and hope you were too.
Each game day at 50% through the day, votes were locked in. If there was a tie, there was no award. If there was a winner, they either got something for the remainder of that day, or got something they had to use the following night.

Thanks again for playing! Hope you enjoyed it

[faust]

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

Well, you're scary as scum, and have a tendency to self-destruct as town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Thank you, Swan and Galz! It was super fun and creative!

[EFHW]

It was over the top having cayvie talking to both me and Lalight at the same time. Almost like daychat!

Yes, thanks for the game!

[MiX]

grrrrrrrrr boooooooo hisssssss

i'll win a game eventually

As long as I kill you N2 that'll never happen right. Right? Right.

And now, everyone fess up.  Why in the world did you all rank me last?  This was my first game back in years and that's the welcome I get?  Pretty crappy.

I was trying to rank based on what I would probably end up reading people as, and putting you close to last is funny. Also out of respect.

[scolapasta]

Very fun first game, even getting lynched in the 2nd day.

Being my 1st game, I had very little input to my ranking; so I ranked my district partner 2nd, people I knew from non Mafia games next, and everyone else randomly.

Mods: what were the the different possible spectator gifts?

[cayvie]

is there a mod QT?