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[Swowl]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

We could of lynched skum, and i could of doctored you?
Btw i got a doc shot from you

[skip wooznum]

Also fair, technically. But why would you do that? You win either way, there would be no reason to risk anything just for town's benefit.

[faust]

Looking at the whole setup, I do feel that mafia was overpowered. They had pretty strong powers, and there were two killing roles with the explicit purpose of killing non-mafia players.

[Swowl]

Also fair, technically. But why would you do that? You win either way, there would be no reason to risk anything just for town's benefit.

We needed to be sure whoever killed didds was dead.  It saying it was a super solid concept, but we actually did consider it for a moment. That was why we kept trying to find a way to win with town (game ends and everyone that can shoot is dead).

[Swowl]

Also fair, technically. But why would you do that? You win either way, there would be no reason to risk anything just for town's benefit.

We needed to be sure whoever killed didds was dead.  It saying it was a super solid concept, but we actually did consider it for a moment. That was why we kept trying to find a way to win with town (game ends and everyone that can shoot is dead).

*not saying it was a super solid concept*

[ashersky]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

A few possibilities existed, as some have pointed out:

--a scum lynch followed by a Dornia NK could have resulted in a town win
--a Dornia lynch was possible with only two votes (both double hated)
--a No Lynch with different NK options

I agree that in general, the outcome was already set, but there were some good lies and doubt created by you that could have changed the way mafia or Dornia played, as well.

[ashersky]

I guess I should talk about the game a bit.

This... Was not a fun experience for me.

I kinda wrote out a long post about why, touching on the 6/14 town thing, the underwhelming town powers, the lack of control I felt, but it really doesn't matter.

In the end, this was an experiment, and I really did think the IC reveal was nice, and experiments are meant to test weird stuff, and I am glad that we were able to test weird stuff.

I just don't have interest in revisiting this specific bundle of weird stuff.

I'm really sorry you were displeased and unhappy.  That was not my intent.

[ashersky]

Looking at the whole setup, I do feel that mafia was overpowered. They had pretty strong powers, and there were two killing roles with the explicit purpose of killing non-mafia players.

I would disagree, but ymmv.

Mafia basically had a godfather (mail-mi), a roleblocker (EFHW), and a 1-Shot Mafia Lightning Rod that actually worked by random redirection instead (2.7).  It didn't protect against kills, but messed with everything else.  The double kill required a hard bus, which they were never able (or willing) to pull off, and there were times when they couldn't get the first vote on a partner.  The mafia lynch is an example of that.  The recruit was also hard to use, and most probably would have failed. It was more of a failsafe in case they got caught very early.

To win, they needed to remove 11.5 players from the game (given the Dornia were unattached in the beginning).  Even with two Dornia surviving to the end, it took six days to guarantee victory.  Shraeye and cayvie HAD to be dead or already won (and left).  On the flip side, they could have been lynched or NKed just like anyone else.

I think it's fairer for you to say that [insert your faction] was underpowered, honestly.  I don't know that we can fully measure that regarding town, though, given both investigative roles were removed very early.  Space replacing LaLight was strong, and earlier use of the vote powers would have made a difference.

And has been said, if folks had just listened to uncle's reads...

One thing I would have done is possibly make one of the mafia members an alien.  A rogue Volm would have worked well.  That probably would have helped town with balance.

[faust]

I don't see any other faction that is underpowered though. Like Humanists, shraeye, town were on a roughly balanced level, though of course there was a big amount of swinginess. And Dornians - well their win condition varies so wildly that it's difficult to make any kind of judgment.

Just seemed like mafia had it good. I agree that a mafia Alien would have gone a long way to making things more balanced.

And this is not news I think, but I'm generally not a big fan of RNG elements, the random redirection thing was not a fun experience for me. The game could have played out very differently if my N1 action had hit its intended target.

That is all not to say that this wasn't an amazing setup. Like the only reason I keep talking about it is because there was so much going on. I guess I'm just a bit miffed that I got 2 scum lynched and that ended up hurting town.

[MiX]

I don't see any other faction that is underpowered though. Like Humanists, shraeye, town were on a roughly balanced level, though of course there was a big amount of swinginess. And Dornians - well their win condition varies so wildly that it's difficult to make any kind of judgment.

Just seemed like mafia had it good. I agree that a mafia Alien would have gone a long way to making things more balanced.

And this is not news I think, but I'm generally not a big fan of RNG elements, the random redirection thing was not a fun experience for me. The game could have played out very differently if my N1 action had hit its intended target.

That is all not to say that this wasn't an amazing setup. Like the only reason I keep talking about it is because there was so much going on. I guess I'm just a bit miffed that I got 2 scum lynched and that ended up hurting town.

I think mafia was overpowered only in comparison to the rest. All factions were pretty weak, except mafia didn't have notable weaknesses. Town was gimped by not being the majority, humanists were going in blind and I think Galzria's powers were underwhelming and hard to even reach, and shraeye needed a stroke of luck to land his NK without leaving him powerless.

One more alien would help town, but then humanists would have to be buffed...which they kinda should anyway, as ash said it himself.

Randomization is very polarizing with the amount of 1-shot abilities that were flying around. Ash called it a 1-shot lightning rod, but that has the important feature of not letting you do the NK.

It feels like the whole setup was the ultimate test to see if town knows which third-parties to lynch. In this game, it turns out you should never lynch third-party, as no one wants to kill mafia at night so you have to use the day to do that. But that's nigh impossible for town to know in advance.

[faust]

I think mafia was overpowered only in comparison to the rest.

In comparison to what can you be overpowered if not the other factions?

[MiX]

I think mafia was overpowered only in comparison to the rest.

In comparison to what can you be overpowered if not the other factions?

I wouldn't touch the mafia powers to make them weaker (the randomizer can instead be something else that is functionally the same but less randomness), I would instead give stuff to the other factions, is what I meant.

I also think dornians were about the same strength as mafia, although this is pretty much impossible to know given their wincon.

[Uncleeurope]

I think town needed to be buffed if Swidds chose not to be Masons.

Because they essentially gained the ability win apart from town as well as a Vig shot that could only kill Town. (And Shraeye)



What I wanna know is if they resurrected LL and he died again, would another friendly IC show up. Haha.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think town needed to be buffed if Swidds chose not to be Masons.

Because they essentially gained the ability win apart from town as well as a Vig shot that could only kill Town. (And Shraeye)



What I wanna know is if they resurrected LL and he died again, would another friendly IC show up. Haha.

It would have been nice if our bioweapon could have killed scum...  Having no way to kill them other than lynching was tough.

It would also have been cool if your lynch really had reset and let us revote instead of just referenduming you. At that point, we thought if we could lynch EFHW, use a doc shot to protect Swan somehow, and then lynch yams, that would have been optimal.  DatDidds was an unusually good pair for pro-town sentiment, especially when town was in an underdog position. Before I got killed, we were aiming to become town by being on the same wagon 3x, but that would have meant lynching town thrice, and that would have made us look super scummy.

[Uncleeurope]

Swidds*

[WestCoastDidds]

Swidds*

alright, alright

[cayvie]

faust: you threw me for a loop day 1 with your "sanity check" line! i was certain you were my partner picking up my signals that i was Delusional

[faust]

faust: you threw me for a loop day 1 with your "sanity check" line! i was certain you were my partner picking up my signals that i was Delusional

Haha, I just thought I would make a fun CoC reference.

[skip wooznum]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

@cayvie, this post of yours totally had me thinking you were town.
What made you think town could use multiple powers? Especially in light of the fact that town!mix clearly implies that he can't? I considered this a bona fide townslip.

[cayvie]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

@cayvie, this post of yours totally had me thinking you were town.
What made you think town could use multiple powers? Especially in light of the fact that town!mix clearly implies that he can't? I considered this a bona fide townslip.

uh my play was just to make confident statements when i was like 20% sure of something. i hit a lot of 20%'s this game lol

[MiX]

@cayvie, this post of yours totally had me thinking you were town.
What made you think town could use multiple powers? Especially in light of the fact that town!mix clearly implies that he can't? I considered this a bona fide townslip.

The joke here, of course, is that I then asked if I could use both of my powers the same night, and got a yes.

Absolute statements about mechanics is what scum's best at, especially third-party. That's their life and blood.