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[ashersky]

Welcome to RMM: Falling Skies Mafia 2 by ashersky.

This game will use an Original, Closed, RMM setup designed by ashersky.  It is considered extremely advanced.  Knowledge of flavor is not required, but will enhance your enjoyment.

There is no co-mod.

Sign ups are open.

1. 2.7
2. MiX
3. LaLight -> 15. SpaceAnemone
4. WCD
5. cayvie
6. Galzria
7. faust
8. EFHW
9. Datswan
10. uncleeurope
11. pubby
12. shraeye
13. skip wooznum
14. mail-mi

Tags: Space, joth

Game State Tracker:
Night 0
Day 1 || Night 1
Day 2 || Night 2
Day 3 || Night 3
Day 4 || Night 4
Day 5 || Night 5

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay. If you are not sure about your paraphrase, ask the mod first.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread or QTs.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive.  With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched.  Ties are broken by coin flip.  With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, maroon text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM or in your Role QT. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 36 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod, up to modkill.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last 7 IRL days.
2. Nights will last no longer than 48 IRL hours.

[ashersky]

The start date for this game has not been determined.  I will consult the queue.  Thread created for effect (and because it's almost ready to go).

Also because the first game didn't end the way we would have liked.

Setup Information (slowly released as a trickle of information to tickle your curiosity.)

Town Win Condition: You win when night falls with all threats to the Earth gone and at least one player with this win condition alive.

The Town faction does not have a name.  It may be referred to in many different, flavorful ways.  Flips will use the green color to ensure clarity.

All players of the same faction receive the same flavor blurb at the opening of their Role Explanation Post. Town received the following:

The Earth was saved, and yet it doesn't feel safe. The aggressors were destroyed, and yet the aggression remains. This is the human condition. This is what we must fight to change. For our future, and for ourselves.

You may notice the use of kanji characters in the flavor text of this game.  No need to actually read Japanese; they are meant to stand in for non-Earth languages and just to give it a bit of a sci-fi feel (a la Firefly using Chinese for cursing).  You may google translate if you want to know what it being said.

You do not need to know flavor to play this game, but it will increase your enjoyment.  There are multiple wikis on the Internet about this show, so at the very least, you may want to look up things about your flavor.

All that said, as with Falling Skies Mafia 1, flavor very much matters.

[2.71828.....]

/in

[MiX]

You can /in this already?

[cayvie]

what other games would you describe as "extremely advanced"? just to get a point of comparison

[ashersky]

what other games would you describe as "extremely advanced"? just to get a point of comparison

Falling Skies 1.

Also, cayvie!

Also also, you'd be fine, I'm sure.

[ashersky]

You can /in this already?

You just did.

[cayvie]

is voting rule six written in strikethrough because it is currently not an active rule?

if rule six is inactive, what happens at deadline?

i'm gonna read the first game then and decide what i wanna do about joining.

[LaLight]

/in!

[popsofctown]

what the heck is rmm?

[WestCoastDidds]

Yep, yep! /in

[cayvie]

ok /in

[Galzria]

/in

[faust]

what the heck is rmm?

Role Madness Mafia. I think you just played one of those...

Also, /in

[ashersky]

is voting rule six written in strikethrough because it is currently not an active rule?

if rule six is inactive, what happens at deadline?

i'm gonna read the first game then and decide what i wanna do about joining.

Yes, that’s a standard rule of mine that doesn’t apply in this series of games.

No majority results in a no lynch.

[EFHW]

/in. Town please!

[Swowl]

if i am allowed to in.... /in

[Uncleeurope]

F/ine.

[SpaceAnemone]

/tag

Can I be on the sub list if you need one at least a couple of weeks from now?

[ashersky]

/tag

Can I be on the sub list if you need one at least a couple of weeks from now?

Yes.  There is plenty of time as I’m not trying to jump the queue or anything. 

[jotheonah]

/tag. Not joining games right now. But maybe will be free before this gets going.

[shraeye]

/tag

[pubby]

/in

[ashersky]

Assuming there are no objections, I have numbered this as 55, to follow Hunger Games.

[pingpongsam]

/in

[skip wooznum]

/in if it starts soonish.

It's been a while since I've played and I never played rmm before but I think I'll be fine

[ashersky]

/in if it starts soonish.

It's been a while since I've played and I never played rmm before but I think I'll be fine

My plan, if there are no complaints, would be when Hunger Games gets to a decent point where a second game makes sense.  What with everyone stuck in their homes, maybe folks want more mafia.

[skip wooznum]

/in if it starts soonish.

It's been a while since I've played and I never played rmm before but I think I'll be fine

My plan, if there are no complaints, would be when Hunger Games gets to a decent point where a second game makes sense.  What with everyone stuck in their homes, maybe folks want more mafia.

My vote would be to start as soon as we get the last player, but that's just me

[ashersky]

Well, role QTs are done, so game start is possible at any time.

[Greathallscout]

/in

[cayvie]

/in

welcome! i see you've signed the pledge. make a post outside forum games in order to stop getting the annoying captcha stuff. here is popular http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=24.0

[skip wooznum]

I've already said this, I'd love to start asap.

It would maybe be cool if the people in the ongoing game would express their preference about this.

[mail-mi]

oh what the heck. /hammer.

[cayvie]

oh what the heck. /hammer.

I actually think this game was already hammered

[cayvie]

I've already said this, I'd love to start asap.

It would maybe be cool if the people in the ongoing game would express their preference about this.

I'd be fine starting during n1 of hunger games

[mail-mi]

oh what the heck. /hammer.

I actually think this game was already hammered

oh you're right. well then, /sub

[Galzria]

I've already said this, I'd love to start asap.

It would maybe be cool if the people in the ongoing game would express their preference about this.

I'd be fine starting during n1 of hunger games

I’m good with this.

Ash should confirm all /in’s are still good to go (or sub Mail in) and then, yeah. Excited for an Ash setup.

[LaLight]

I've already said this, I'd love to start asap.

It would maybe be cool if the people in the ongoing game would express their preference about this.

I'd be fine starting during n1 of hunger games

ditto

[ashersky]

/in

welcome! i see you've signed the pledge. make a post outside forum games in order to stop getting the annoying captcha stuff. here is popular http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=24.0

Hi Greathallscout -- have you played forum mafia before?  I ask because this is not the right game to start your career with.  If you have experience here or another site, please let me know.  Otherwise, I would point you to the regular game that is also open for sign ups here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20200.0

[ashersky]

All players who haven't posted in awhile -- please reconfirm if you have a chance, and express any concerns with starting soon-ish (like when the ongoing game hits night).

[2.71828.....]

I would prefer to start when the other rmm goes to N2 for the sake of everyone involved, but would be fine with a earlier start.

[WestCoastDidds]

All players who haven't posted in awhile -- please reconfirm if you have a chance, and express any concerns with starting soon-ish (like when the ongoing game hits night).

I'm still in and good with whenever!

[MiX]

I'd prefer as soon as possible, but I have no problems with whenever.

[Greathallscout]

/in

welcome! i see you've signed the pledge. make a post outside forum games in order to stop getting the annoying captcha stuff. here is popular http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=24.0

Hi Greathallscout -- have you played forum mafia before?  I ask because this is not the right game to start your career with.  If you have experience here or another site, please let me know.  Otherwise, I would point you to the regular game that is also open for sign ups here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20200.0

I haven't played any forum mafias. However, I have read some of the previous games and followed some of them (even the RMMs). I also have played mafia over chats with friends. That being said, although I'd love to play, I know you put a lot of work into the setup and will understand if you want a more experienced forum player.

[Greathallscout]

/in

welcome! i see you've signed the pledge. make a post outside forum games in order to stop getting the annoying captcha stuff. here is popular http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=24.0

Hi Greathallscout -- have you played forum mafia before?  I ask because this is not the right game to start your career with.  If you have experience here or another site, please let me know.  Otherwise, I would point you to the regular game that is also open for sign ups here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20200.0

I haven't played any forum mafias. However, I have read some of the previous games and followed some of them (even the RMMs). I also have played mafia over chats with friends. That being said, although I'd love to play, I know you put a lot of work into the setup and will understand if you want a more experienced forum player.

Actually, something just came up for me unfortunately. I don't think I will be able to play in 2 weeks. I'm glad there is someone waiting to sub. Hope to play a different time. /out

[mail-mi]

Cool, /in

[EFHW]

Are you learning Chinese, ashersky?

[shraeye]

I presume he knows Japanese, from my past knowledge of ash

[ashersky]

Are you learning Chinese, ashersky?

I presume he knows Japanese, from my past knowledge of ash

shraeye is correct.

[ashersky]

/in

welcome! i see you've signed the pledge. make a post outside forum games in order to stop getting the annoying captcha stuff. here is popular http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=24.0

Hi Greathallscout -- have you played forum mafia before?  I ask because this is not the right game to start your career with.  If you have experience here or another site, please let me know.  Otherwise, I would point you to the regular game that is also open for sign ups here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20200.0

I haven't played any forum mafias. However, I have read some of the previous games and followed some of them (even the RMMs). I also have played mafia over chats with friends. That being said, although I'd love to play, I know you put a lot of work into the setup and will understand if you want a more experienced forum player.

Actually, something just came up for me unfortunately. I don't think I will be able to play in 2 weeks. I'm glad there is someone waiting to sub. Hope to play a different time. /out

I understand.  I think this was not the right game to start with, but I hope you do sign up for the one I linked or another one soon and join the group!

Cool, /in

Confirmed.

[ashersky]

Now coincides with a full game, a number of folks itching to start, and a good time for me to do it.  So QTs coming!

Thread locked except for tags.

[ashersky]

All players should have a PM with a link to their personal QT.

All players must confirm receipt in their QT.

All players must also confirm they have read their role QT in its entirety.

Please ask questions now, during Night 0.  If I can't answer, I won't.  If I can, I will, and that will help you.  Questions that are general will be added to the setup post.

I have been adding information there, in case you haven't been checking (Post 2).

[ashersky]

I am missing one confirmation.  Game will start when I get it.

[ashersky]

I am missing one confirmation.  Game will start when I get it.

Still here.  I have a sub lined up -- giving the final player the rest of today, the 27th.

[ashersky]

Everyone, this is my final note before the game begins.  Please be sure to read the limited setup information provided in Post #2, as well as the points I lay out in this post.

1. I will stress again that flavor matters in this game.  As explained, you don't need to know the show to play and succeed, but you do need to follow the flavor of the game.  A few points for clarity and some assumptions you can make:
--this game is set after the end of the television series
--a character need not have survived in the television series to be included in this game
--a character's "alignment" in the telvision series is not necessarily indicative of a player's alignment in this game
--mildish spoilers in case you haven't seen the show, but it has been years, so that is on you (it is great, go watch it!)
--I put as much work into the flavor aspects of the setup as I did any other, so treat it the same as any other part of the game

2. I expect to be less active as a mod than I was years ago.  That means I may be planning on only one check-in per day to do a vote count, answer questions, etc.  Please be understanding of that, and if you can make your questions as easy to find as possible, that will be much appreciated.

3. This is a game, so let's have fun!  I put a ton of work into the setup, and it could still fail miserably, but that doesn't mean it can't still be a great time for everyone.  Understand that this is an RMM, which includes the word madness.  Expect it!

[ashersky]

Time passes.

Has a year gone by since humankind freed itself from the shackles of an alien race?  Months?  Time passes, but it is hard to track.

Winning the war with the Espheni was only a step, and what came after was still painful.  Rebuilding, finding our way again, None of it is easy.  And yet, humans are strong.  People are strong.  We find a way.

Defeating an evil race of aliens does not mean we defeated evil.  No, everlasting peace and prosperity is not guaranteed.  We do our best, but will it be enough?  Even now, we face unknown fears and an impossible future.  Can the good in people win out again?

—Diary Entry, a day during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


Day 1 begins now.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (14): 2.7, MiX, LaLight, WCD, cayvie, Galzria, faust, EFHW, Datswan, uncleeurope, pubby, shraeye, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[mail-mi]

Hello

[MiX]

Hi.

Vote: pubby, my favourite scummy.

[cayvie]

Hi.

Vote: pubby, my favourite scummy.

well then i gotta vote: LaLight

for serious i'm not over how well that scumteam functioned

[mail-mi]

Hi.

Vote: pubby, my favourite scummy.

well then i gotta vote: LaLight

for serious i'm not over how well that scumteam functioned

vote: MiX completing the trifecta.

[LaLight]

vote: cayvie, how could you

[cayvie]

who here's familiar with the source material? i hadn't heard of it before.

[2.71828.....]

Hi! I am not familiar with the flavor

[faust]

I don't now the flavor beyond having played the first Falling Skies Mafia.

[LaLight]

no, not familiar. I have read about my character

[faust]

The win condition is kind of interesting - it triggers only at the start of the night. It is sort of implied that all threats to town could be eliminated at the start of a Day, and yet there is a reason for the game to continue. This would mean some kind of alignment change or reviving mechanic.

[cayvie]

The win condition is kind of interesting - it triggers only at the start of the night. It is sort of implied that all threats to town could be eliminated at the start of a Day, and yet there is a reason for the game to continue. This would mean some kind of alignment change or reviving mechanic.

yeah that is interesting, now that you point it out. could also suck to be a survivor and get lynched that day too.

also it implies that there could be a situation where the last mafia is vigged overnight, and we still have to play out the day!

[LaLight]

something in my qt points out the possibility of alignment change. it's a bit vagie and ash hasn't answered my question, but it's there

it's not me who  can change an alignment

[LaLight]

vague*

[mail-mi]

something in my qt points out the possibility of alignment change. it's a bit vagie and ash hasn't answered my question, but it's there

it's not me who  can change an alignment

^^same

[MiX]

something in my qt points out the possibility of alignment change. it's a bit vagie and ash hasn't answered my question, but it's there

it's not me who  can change an alignment

^^same

It's the same thing that happened in the last game, we caught a third-party like this last time, but I doubt anyone will get caught by it this game.

Interesting that ash reused it, honestly.

[Swowl]

Heyo everyone!

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi hi hi hi!

I hope that you are all doing well and surviving social distancing measures like champs!

[LaLight]

Hi hi hi hi!

I hope that you are all doing well and surviving social distancing measures like champs!

2 weeks now. I beat 3 games, watched 3 series, made a 2000 pieces puzzle which consists only of colours, smoked 15 packs of cigarettes and still am not allowed to drink

[pubby]

Is there harnessed children again?

[MiX]

Is there harnessed children again?

Don't kill them! Please! Skitters just want to be alive!

Doesn't look like it. Not like they really worked before. Also, are there even Espheni?

[LaLight]

by the way I haven't played the first one, so i don't have a slightest clue what was there and how relevant it is to the game

[MiX]

by the way I haven't played the first one, so i don't have a slightest clue what was there and how relevant it is to the game

You should skim it a bit, even if just the flips, to see the meta behind what could and could not be in the game.

It's also really fun, it's textbook why town shouldn't rush a lynch early in the day, and the first two days were also pretty good IMO.

[Swowl]

by the way I haven't played the first one, so i don't have a slightest clue what was there and how relevant it is to the game

So I will save you the re-read:

1) do not post in threads that you are not supposed to post in <- that one is a joke

2) the flavor was the key to the puzzle last time. These harnessed children that were mentioned just now were not like a text in a PM, they were only ever referenced at the beginning of new day starts in the flavor post. So when he says you can play the game without knowing the flavor... but the flavor still matters - that is what that means I am guessing.

3) The harnessed children were an "outside element" that was used to provide potential different win cons... sort of. But it was a huge part of the game. So probably something like that in this one to look for.

[MiX]

by the way I haven't played the first one, so i don't have a slightest clue what was there and how relevant it is to the game

So I will save you the re-read:

1) do not post in threads that you are not supposed to post in <- that one is a joke

2) the flavor was the key to the puzzle last time. These harnessed children that were mentioned just now were not like a text in a PM, they were only ever referenced at the beginning of new day starts in the flavor post. So when he says you can play the game without knowing the flavor... but the flavor still matters - that is what that means I am guessing.

3) The harnessed children were an "outside element" that was used to provide potential different win cons... sort of. But it was a huge part of the game. So probably something like that in this one to look for.

4) The alignment change thing you were talking about before existed in the other game, which means I would not be surprised if there were more than one player that can change their win condition.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi hi hi hi!

I hope that you are all doing well and surviving social distancing measures like champs!

2 weeks now. I beat 3 games, watched 3 series, made a 2000 pieces puzzle which consists only of colours, smoked 15 packs of cigarettes and still am not allowed to drink

Holy cow, LL, that is a lot of cigarettes. What are the games you beat and the series you watched? Any worth recommending?

[LaLight]

Hi hi hi hi!

I hope that you are all doing well and surviving social distancing measures like champs!

2 weeks now. I beat 3 games, watched 3 series, made a 2000 pieces puzzle which consists only of colours, smoked 15 packs of cigarettes and still am not allowed to drink

Holy cow, LL, that is a lot of cigarettes. What are the games you beat and the series you watched? Any worth recommending?

Well, i would surely recommend watching Inside #9, easily top-4 series for me. We also watched Psychoville which is from the same creators, and second season of Sex Education, which I still think is an awesome series.

As for games, I played remake of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and it's awesome, as well as Hollow Knight and Salt and Sanctuary. S&S left me pretty underwhelmed, whereas Hollow Knight is one of the best games I ever played, so here goes

I don't really feel comfortable spamming the Mafia Thread with this, so I think I'll stop here

[LaLight]

by the way I haven't played the first one, so i don't have a slightest clue what was there and how relevant it is to the game

So I will save you the re-read:

1) do not post in threads that you are not supposed to post in <- that one is a joke

2) the flavor was the key to the puzzle last time. These harnessed children that were mentioned just now were not like a text in a PM, they were only ever referenced at the beginning of new day starts in the flavor post. So when he says you can play the game without knowing the flavor... but the flavor still matters - that is what that means I am guessing.

3) The harnessed children were an "outside element" that was used to provide potential different win cons... sort of. But it was a huge part of the game. So probably something like that in this one to look for.

from what I gathered from a flavor post here, the war with Espheni (which I presume was a theme of the first game) is over and town won and now happens something completely different

[Swowl]

by the way I haven't played the first one, so i don't have a slightest clue what was there and how relevant it is to the game

So I will save you the re-read:

1) do not post in threads that you are not supposed to post in <- that one is a joke

2) the flavor was the key to the puzzle last time. These harnessed children that were mentioned just now were not like a text in a PM, they were only ever referenced at the beginning of new day starts in the flavor post. So when he says you can play the game without knowing the flavor... but the flavor still matters - that is what that means I am guessing.

3) The harnessed children were an "outside element" that was used to provide potential different win cons... sort of. But it was a huge part of the game. So probably something like that in this one to look for.

from what I gathered from a flavor post here, the war with Espheni (which I presume was a theme of the first game) is over and town won and now happens something completely different

Based on the OP I am gonna assume that in regards to roles and alignment directly - it doesn't matter a whole lot. Basing that on the quote about town not all being "town" but flipping in green text.

The OP also states that this is to take place after the conclusion of the show. So yeah, I would agree with the concept of all the themes not being the same. Dunno what that leaves left to work with though.

[MiX]

Probably lets ash bring to fruition ideas that he got while the other game was going. Seeing the parts moving in a real game helps creativity.

This game is so hype, yet uh who's not participating in RVS like town would?

Vote: Swan for being scum. Not that I want to lynch you, you deserve better this time around. But I will anyway.

[skip wooznum]

Hello all!

Probably most (all?) of you don't know me so I'll make a quick introduction:

I'm skip. I haven't been active here for a few years and even when I was, I wasn't that active. I've only played one non-BM game on this site, the only player in that game who's also in this one is mail-mi. A few others have played with me in BM games. Aside from playing, I've done a healthy amount of lurking and reading old games so I'm pretty familiar with this place's play style and such.

[skip wooznum]

who here's familiar with the source material? i hadn't heard of it before.

I don't know anything about the flavor either.

[cayvie]

man my role is so fuckin weird i feel like i'm going crazy looking at it! i'm thinking of partial claiming just so we have something to talk about, hah.

[MiX]

man my role is so fuckin weird i feel like i'm going crazy looking at it! i'm thinking of partial claiming just so we have something to talk about, hah.

Honestly just call yourself the best PR in the game and roll with it, it should be about as useful to everyone else as a partial claim.

I cannot stop referencing the other game and it's going to kill me one day.

Hello all!

Probably most (all?) of you don't know me so I'll make a quick introduction:

I'm skip. I haven't been active here for a few years and even when I was, I wasn't that active. I've only played one non-BM game on this site, the only player in that game who's also in this one is mail-mi. A few others have played with me in BM games. Aside from playing, I've done a healthy amount of lurking and reading old games so I'm pretty familiar with this place's play style and such.

Do you remember who you've played BMs with?

[LaLight]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

[MiX]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

Vote: LaLight

[LaLight]

Hello all!

Probably most (all?) of you don't know me so I'll make a quick introduction:

I'm skip. I haven't been active here for a few years and even when I was, I wasn't that active. I've only played one non-BM game on this site, the only player in that game who's also in this one is mail-mi. A few others have played with me in BM games. Aside from playing, I've done a healthy amount of lurking and reading old games so I'm pretty familiar with this place's play style and such.

I recognise your nickname, I've read every game on this site (except the ones between me disappearing and appearing again, but that was not so long ago), but I don't remember anything about you

[LaLight]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

Vote: LaLight

that was.. sarcasm. and it didn't give any information. so why?

[skip wooznum]

Do you remember who you've played BMs with?

Off the top of my head,  e, and faust.

[MiX]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

Vote: LaLight

that was.. sarcasm. and it didn't give any information. so why?

You lied. Why would you lie as town? Explain.

But don't expect an answer as I'm off to bed.

[LaLight]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

Vote: LaLight

that was.. sarcasm. and it didn't give any information. so why?

You lied. Why would you lie as town? Explain.

But don't expect an answer as I'm off to bed.

I am sorry, what do you know about my role, that I don't?

[EFHW]

Having trouble giving mafia the attention it needs, but will try.

[LaLight]

Having trouble giving mafia the attention it needs, but will try.

give town the attention it needs!

[Uncleeurope]

My role is pretty, “meh” as well.

[skip wooznum]

The win condition is kind of interesting - it triggers only at the start of the night. It is sort of implied that all threats to town could be eliminated at the start of a Day, and yet there is a reason for the game to continue. This would mean some kind of alignment change or reviving mechanic.

The win-con in falling skies was similar. Is your inference true about that game?

[cayvie]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

i'm jelly. i have a bunch of powers but they've all got like a 50% chance of backfiring on me.

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

i'm pretty sure i just shouldn't use this power. maybe ever?

so that's me, the clumsy crazy girl with a gun! watch out, i might blow my own face off.

i feel like a call of cthulhu RPG character who wandered into a mafia game lol.

[2.71828.....]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

i'm jelly. i have a bunch of powers but they've all got like a 50% chance of backfiring on me.

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

i'm pretty sure i just shouldn't use this power. maybe ever?

so that's me, the clumsy crazy girl with a gun! watch out, i might blow my own face off.

i feel like a call of cthulhu RPG character who wandered into a mafia game lol.

I mean, a loud miss would actually be really good to confirm your role.

Is it worth the risk? Maybe. Maybe not.

[Swowl]

Probably lets ash bring to fruition ideas that he got while the other game was going. Seeing the parts moving in a real game helps creativity.

This game is so hype, yet uh who's not participating in RVS like town would?

Vote: Swan for being scum. Not that I want to lynch you, you deserve better this time around. But I will anyway.

well it wouldn't be normal if we didn't go at early on for no reason. but I would expect you to know that I do not do RVS.

[Swowl]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

i'm jelly. i have a bunch of powers but they've all got like a 50% chance of backfiring on me.

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

i'm pretty sure i just shouldn't use this power. maybe ever?

so that's me, the clumsy crazy girl with a gun! watch out, i might blow my own face off.

i feel like a call of cthulhu RPG character who wandered into a mafia game lol.

I actually can totally buy that role being in the game - but just mathing it out... pretty much
- if you shoot at someone that you think is skum and the shot goes off then yay
- if you shoot at someone that you think is skum and the shot doesn't go off, then it doesn't matter if it is loud or not really (I mean a little, they know you burned a shot, but no conf in game will be given).
- If you are wrong and shoot at town, then there is a chance for an upside to happen. Meaning you claim, they are informed, they claim, we get an MIC.

So essentially you are 75% to be a RMM-Neoplatian, parsed against the probability of the player being Town... vs a 25% vig, against the probability of the player being skum (all on the upside of things of course in that scenario).

Or alternatively you are some form of loud skum and are trying to set up an out. But as of now, given the way you claimed, I am leaning on the town end of things.

[cayvie]

So essentially you are 75% to be a RMM-Neoplatian, parsed against the probability of the player being Town... vs a 25% vig, against the probability of the player being skum (all on the upside of things of course in that scenario).

i didn't follow what you meant here. how am i like a neapolitan?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.1:

LaLight (2): cayvie, MiX
MiX (1): mail-mi
cayvie (1): LaLight

Not Voting (10): 2.7, WCD, Galzria, faust, EFHW, Datswan, uncleeurope, pubby, shraeye, skip wooznum

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[faust]

i feel like a call of cthulhu RPG character who wandered into a mafia game lol.

I think that calls for a sanity check!

[MiX]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

Vote: LaLight

that was.. sarcasm. and it didn't give any information. so why?

You lied. Why would you lie as town? Explain.

But don't expect an answer as I'm off to bed.

I am sorry, what do you know about my role, that I don't?

I don't get it, I thought sarcasm meant you were lying...or something...I'm confused. How much of that is true?

Probably lets ash bring to fruition ideas that he got while the other game was going. Seeing the parts moving in a real game helps creativity.

This game is so hype, yet uh who's not participating in RVS like town would?

Vote: Swan for being scum. Not that I want to lynch you, you deserve better this time around. But I will anyway.

well it wouldn't be normal if we didn't go at early on for no reason. but I would expect you to know that I do not do RVS.

I do.

Vote: pubby

[LaLight]

boring bit along with an emoji was a sarcasm

my role is straightforward compared to what cayvie has

[WestCoastDidds]

Cayvie as a crazy lady with a gun that only works sometimes, might accidentally shoot her, and may or may not have ammo is like the definition of many of my neighbors in a a small town in Texas, complete with housecoat and slippers, or athleisure and a ponytail...whichever the case might be.

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...) 

[cayvie]

i guess a weekend start could explain the slowness somewhat. where's galz tho? hope he's ok

[WestCoastDidds]

Swan is his roommate...we can always ask him to go thwack him on the head

[faust]

Why are we all claiming stuff again? Trying to make fakeclaims easier for scum?

[mail-mi]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

i'm jelly. i have a bunch of powers but they've all got like a 50% chance of backfiring on me.

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

i'm pretty sure i just shouldn't use this power. maybe ever?

so that's me, the clumsy crazy girl with a gun! watch out, i might blow my own face off.

i feel like a call of cthulhu RPG character who wandered into a mafia game lol.

why did you claim this?

[cayvie]

Why are we all claiming stuff again? Trying to make fakeclaims easier for scum?

i kinda figured my claim was so weird that it wouldn't do that.

why did you claim this?

kinda felt like nobody had anything to talk about, for one. hard to scumhunt in a silent room

[Swowl]

So essentially you are 75% to be a RMM-Neoplatian, parsed against the probability of the player being Town... vs a 25% vig, against the probability of the player being skum (all on the upside of things of course in that scenario).

i didn't follow what you meant here. how am i like a neapolitan?

I suppose neo is not the correct term... its like a reverse neo ... assuming the player you target is town and the shot is loud and you miss. So actually not like neo at all... it was late. My point was attempting to be there may actually be viability in you using your shot, not just based on the kill, but because you could get confirmed by your target.

Also - do you the % chance of you blowing your face off?

[cayvie]

Also - do you the % chance of you blowing your face off?

no... that part was more of a vague warning, other things got specific percentages. maybe there's some "self defense" PGO-type role out there that this is warning me about? like i said, weird.

[faust]

Vote: WestCoastDidds

[skip wooznum]

The win condition is kind of interesting - it triggers only at the start of the night. It is sort of implied that all threats to town could be eliminated at the start of a Day, and yet there is a reason for the game to continue. This would mean some kind of alignment change or reviving mechanic.

The win-con in falling skies was similar. Is your inference true about that game?

This was not rhetorical. I think I know the answer but I'm not sure because it was a complicated game and skimming through it, I might have missed something.

[faust]

The win condition is kind of interesting - it triggers only at the start of the night. It is sort of implied that all threats to town could be eliminated at the start of a Day, and yet there is a reason for the game to continue. This would mean some kind of alignment change or reviving mechanic.

The win-con in falling skies was similar. Is your inference true about that game?

This was not rhetorical. I think I know the answer but I'm not sure because it was a complicated game and skimming through it, I might have missed something.

I made a mental note to go check because I don't really remember, but then I didn't do the checking.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: WestCoastDidds

Le sigh....

And here I thought we had turned over a new leaf

[MiX]

Vote: WestCoastDidds

Le sigh....

And here I thought we had turned over a new leaf

Vote: faust, you're right.

[cayvie]

i don't follow what just happened here.

[pubby]

vote: cayvie

[mail-mi]

I'm having a harder time getting into this game. Maybe it's just cause it's the weekend.

[skip wooznum]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

[MiX]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

Townpoints for skip as that's exactly what I thought.

[Swowl]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

I agree with the town read on WCD here.

[mail-mi]

Time passes.

Has a year gone by since humankind freed itself from the shackles of an alien race?  Months?  Time passes, but it is hard to track.

Winning the war with the Espheni was only a step, and what came after was still painful.  Rebuilding, finding our way again, None of it is easy.  And yet, humans are strong.  People are strong.  We find a way.

Defeating an evil race of aliens does not mean we defeated evil.  No, everlasting peace and prosperity is not guaranteed.  We do our best, but will it be enough?  Even now, we face unknown fears and an impossible future.  Can the good in people win out again?

—Diary Entry, a day during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


Day 1 begins now.

So let's analyze the flavor a little bit. It seems like, at least flavor-wise, the aliens are gone. So probably the mafia are human?

That's pretty much all I got. I thought I could get a little more out of it. Any other thoughts?

[EFHW]

MiX, skip, Swan and Didds feel chummy here.

[EFHW]

i don't follow what just happened here.

I think faust might have a habit of finding Didds scummy.

[EFHW]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

[EFHW]

Townpoints to Swan for figuring out how cayvie's role could be useful.

[EFHW]

And e, too!

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.2:

LaLight (1): cayvie
MiX (1): mail-mi
cayvie (2): LaLight, pubby
WCD (1): faust
faust (1): MiX
pubby (1): EFHW

Not Voting (7): 2.7, WCD, Galzria, Datswan, uncleeurope, shraeye, skip wooznum

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[mail-mi]

unvote

[cayvie]

Time passes.

Has a year gone by since humankind freed itself from the shackles of an alien race?  Months?  Time passes, but it is hard to track.

Winning the war with the Espheni was only a step, and what came after was still painful.  Rebuilding, finding our way again, None of it is easy.  And yet, humans are strong.  People are strong.  We find a way.

Defeating an evil race of aliens does not mean we defeated evil.  No, everlasting peace and prosperity is not guaranteed.  We do our best, but will it be enough?  Even now, we face unknown fears and an impossible future.  Can the good in people win out again?

—Diary Entry, a day during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


Day 1 begins now.

So let's analyze the flavor a little bit. It seems like, at least flavor-wise, the aliens are gone. So probably the mafia are human?

That's pretty much all I got. I thought I could get a little more out of it. Any other thoughts?

iirc from reading the last game, there were multiple kinds of aliens in the show. i think they defeated the espheni but there are still others around? the falling skies wiki lists 10 alien races

[Uncleeurope]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

This is pretty much where I’m at. Pubby and Faust both seem a bit off, although I can almost guarantee that there is at least one baddie who is defending a “townier” person.

MiX, for example.

Vote: Pubby

[cayvie]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

This is pretty much where I’m at. Pubby and Faust both seem a bit off, although I can almost guarantee that there is at least one baddie who is defending a “townier” person.

MiX, for example.

Vote: Pubby

how can you have enough info to say pubby seems off? literally all he's said is "is there harnessed children" and an unexplained vote for me.

i guess i've never seen town!pubby, does he post a bunch when he's town? all i see so far is lurking.

[cayvie]

vote: Uncleeurope

[faust]

i don't follow what just happened here.

I think faust might have a habit of finding Didds scummy.

I don't think I do, really.

[faust]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

How does it compare to LaLight's softclaim?

[skip wooznum]

vote: Uncleeurope

I can get behind this

vote: Uncleeurope

[skip wooznum]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

How does it compare to LaLight's softclaim?

iirc he's already made 2 so far.
The one about alignment change I believe, but it doesn't tell me anything about his alignment.
The other one I don't necessarily believe.

[skip wooznum]

@Faust, are you on wcd for:

a) the softclaim
b) fluffiness of posts
c) other reason
d) don't want to say

[faust]

@Faust, are you on wcd for:

a) the softclaim
b) fluffiness of posts
c) other reason
d) don't want to say

a.

[skip wooznum]

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

[Swowl]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

This is pretty much where I’m at. Pubby and Faust both seem a bit off, although I can almost guarantee that there is at least one baddie who is defending a “townier” person.

MiX, for example.

Vote: Pubby

So like people keep saying faust seems off, but I am not getting that vibe. I am not one way or another, but for anyone (not just you) to say off... is off. also you are saying that.

Also, as cayvie has already pointed out - pubby hasn't like done anything... which is pretty standard pubby regardless of alignment in my experience with them.

also also - "one baddie that is defending a townier person"? That implies you at least think mix is skummy yeah? Does that make Skip town by the same merit?

Is the only reason you think mix is skummy so far because they are defending someone?

[Swowl]

I can go here for now

Vote: Eddie

[faust]

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

[skip wooznum]

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

Alright.
I thought the "complicated and lots of moving parts" part was a semi-concrete thing that any later claim would have to fit with. Moving parts that make sense with the rest of the setup and are therefore believable are hard to fake, or at least that was my thought.

[Uncleeurope]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

This is pretty much where I’m at. Pubby and Faust both seem a bit off, although I can almost guarantee that there is at least one baddie who is defending a “townier” person.

MiX, for example.

Vote: Pubby

how can you have enough info to say pubby seems off? literally all he's said is "is there harnessed children" and an unexplained vote for me.

i guess i've never seen town!pubby, does he post a bunch when he's town? all i see so far is lurking.

Pubby typically plays this game significantly more open.

Faust typically plays this game not voting for people who I town read. (Although I find this to be less significant, hence the vote going the other way)

also also - "one baddie that is defending a townier person"? That implies you at least think mix is skummy yeah? Does that make Skip town by the same merit?

Is the only reason you think mix is skummy so far because they are defending someone?

I think scum are likely to see townieness as townieness just like everyone else, and was just pointing out the lilliehood that a baddie could easily be saying “don’t vote them, they are town!”

Any number of players could fit in that bucket, and not all of them are bad. I chose to poke at MIX because doin so is obligatory. I don’t quite get your point with the Skip thing.


I haven’t played on here in awhile. I forgot the meta was to push a wagon on me day 1 if I am town.

It’s weird how that always seems to happen. I only ever have early wagons as town.

[pubby]

I already revealed my role but nobody took notice.

[Uncleeurope]

You only have one post with any amount of content. If that is your claim (in some weird roundabout way), then I guess I’m wrong.

You normally are much more blunt about claiming your role.

[MiX]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

This is pretty much where I’m at. Pubby and Faust both seem a bit off, although I can almost guarantee that there is at least one baddie who is defending a “townier” person.

MiX, for example.

Vote: Pubby

No, not really.

Vote: Uncle, who am I defending?

vote: Uncleeurope

I can get behind this

vote: Uncleeurope

Lol skip's town, have fun being NKd, that's an honor!

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

Alright.
I thought the "complicated and lots of moving parts" part was a semi-concrete thing that any later claim would have to fit with. Moving parts that make sense with the rest of the setup and are therefore believable are hard to fake, or at least that was my thought.

This except with much less doubt over it's truthfulness than either of you.

I already revealed my role but nobody took notice.

I saw it, there's just no reason to point it out.

Also last time you claimed like that you were scum doing some insane fakeclaim.

[WestCoastDidds]

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

Alright.
I thought the "complicated and lots of moving parts" part was a semi-concrete thing that any later claim would have to fit with. Moving parts that make sense with the rest of the setup and are therefore believable are hard to fake, or at least that was my thought.

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, where is Galzria??

[MiX]

Okay, where is Galzria??

Gone! Is he in this game? I think Galz kurking here is NAI, besides my vote's in a better place.

Why do you want him here?

[faust]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

This reads disingenuous to me. First of all, I don't recall ever having scumread you for being "fluffy". Sounds more like something you made up to invalidate my read.

And of course then there's the "uh others have done the same why isn't faust going after them?" routine which completely ignores the fact that the main reason Didds' post was scummy is because she wasn't the first to softclaim.

[MiX]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

This reads disingenuous to me. First of all, I don't recall ever having scumread you for being "fluffy". Sounds more like something you made up to invalidate my read.

And of course then there's the "uh others have done the same why isn't faust going after them?" routine which completely ignores the fact that the main reason Didds' post was scummy is because she wasn't the first to softclaim.

Does Didds not softclaim as town?

[faust]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

This reads disingenuous to me. First of all, I don't recall ever having scumread you for being "fluffy". Sounds more like something you made up to invalidate my read.

And of course then there's the "uh others have done the same why isn't faust going after them?" routine which completely ignores the fact that the main reason Didds' post was scummy is because she wasn't the first to softclaim.

Does Didds not softclaim as town?

In that situation? Generally? I don't know, probably depends on her role, but it isn't all that relevant to the discussion.

[MiX]

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

If this is your argument, what about the softclaim tells you this is more scum!Didds than town!Didds? I can't see it.

Did anyone else help town with their claim?

[WestCoastDidds]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

This reads disingenuous to me. First of all, I don't recall ever having scumread you for being "fluffy". Sounds more like something you made up to invalidate my read.

And of course then there's the "uh others have done the same why isn't faust going after them?" routine which completely ignores the fact that the main reason Didds' post was scummy is because she wasn't the first to softclaim.

You didn’t say fluffy, Skip did. It was one of his multiple choice items on the why I was scummy question

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, where is Galzria??

Gone! Is he in this game? I think Galz kurking here is NAI, besides my vote's in a better place.

Why do you want him here?

I miss him! And we’ve been playing for a couple of days (day and a half?) and could use a good dose of Galzy to mix things up.

Also, hi Eddie! How have you been? You have been missed.

[faust]

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

If this is your argument, what about the softclaim tells you this is more scum!Didds than town!Didds? I can't see it.

Did anyone else help town with their claim?

cayvie tried to generate discussion with her claim, I can see that narrative. The other claims weren't that great either, but at the very least being locked into having a "boring" role reduces the amount of crazy claiming someone could do.

Didds's claim was the worst since it came last and did the least to help town. But that doesn't mean that I think all the other claims were super townie.

[2.71828.....]

I need to figure out why people are voting since we have some serious votes now.

Sorry, slow start for me getting into this game with the weekend then just a case of the Mondays

[Uncleeurope]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

This is pretty much where I’m at. Pubby and Faust both seem a bit off, although I can almost guarantee that there is at least one baddie who is defending a “townier” person.

MiX, for example.

Vote: Pubby

No, not really.

Vote: Uncle, who am I defending?

vote: Uncleeurope

I can get behind this

vote: Uncleeurope

Lol skip's town, have fun being NKd, that's an honor!

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

Alright.
I thought the "complicated and lots of moving parts" part was a semi-concrete thing that any later claim would have to fit with. Moving parts that make sense with the rest of the setup and are therefore believable are hard to fake, or at least that was my thought.

This except with much less doubt over it's truthfulness than either of you.

I already revealed my role but nobody took notice.

I saw it, there's just no reason to point it out.

Also last time you claimed like that you were scum doing some insane fakeclaim.

You cant claim you aren’t defending someone and then immediately claim someone is for sure Town in the next line. Especially when I have already established that calling people town is what I meant by defending someone.

Also, I believe I missed the Pubby game where they were evil?

Also, also, do you think my behavior this game is indicative of me being scum, or town?

Making claims and calls that you disagree with is hardly grounds to vote.

Especially when those claims are coming from me.

[MiX]

"No, not really" is about your reads on pubby and faust, you established that after the post for which I voted you, your behavior says you're town.

Vote: E, "I need to know everyone's reads, gimme them please".

[shraeye]

Vote: WestCoastDidds

Le sigh....

And here I thought we had turned over a new leaf

And under the new leaf was....another old leaf!!!  It's a great mystery pile of leaves!

[shraeye]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

describe a softclaim you would not like.  And one you would only kinda like.

[shraeye]

Townpoints for skip as that's exactly what I thought.

Anyone who agrees with me is town!!! (sigh...)

[shraeye]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

How does it compare to LaLight's softclaim?

I know, right?

[Galzria]

Sorry all - Reading from the start and getting involved now. I'm trying to establish myself a new "normal" right now... so while I'm just locked away at home every day (including the weekends), I'm trying to make sure I take Sat/Sun to myself to not have to think about work/virus/anything for my own sanity.

[Galzria]

I'm going to do two re-reads:

First, straight through, thoughts only jotted down to myself (stream of conscience style): If people wish that to be published I can do so after.

Second, dialed in to the things that stand out. This is notably different than above because time passes, and what might have seemed important in the first 50 posts may not matter after posts 150+

[skip wooznum]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

Are you saying that your only 2 options for how to play this game are to not claim anything at all about your role and make exclusively fluffy posts, or to claim things about your role?

[skip wooznum]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

describe a softclaim you would not like.  And one you would only kinda like.

One that doesn't commit to having a complicated role.

[WestCoastDidds]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

Are you saying that your only 2 options for how to play this game are to not claim anything at all about your role and make exclusively fluffy posts, or to claim things about your role?

No, those were the choices you listed in your multiple choice question to faust

[skip wooznum]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

Is this sarcastic? If not, explain please.

[WestCoastDidds]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

describe a softclaim you would not like.  And one you would only kinda like.

One that doesn't commit to having a complicated role.

I think that in this game, even fairly boring roles are likely to be complicated. It’s all over the set up with the earning of advanced players only. The complications are Ashersky’s version of fun.
I don’t think committing to having a complicated role matters much in the big scheme. All of this was just a comment on solidarity with cayvie, who has a complicated and interesting, albeit crazy pants, role.

[faust]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

Are you saying that your only 2 options for how to play this game are to not claim anything at all about your role and make exclusively fluffy posts, or to claim things about your role?

No, those were the choices you listed in your multiple choice question to faust

But what does this have to do with "winning with faust"?

[WestCoastDidds]

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

describe a softclaim you would not like.  And one you would only kinda like.

One that doesn't commit to having a complicated role.

Sorry Skip, I misread this. I agree that committing to a complicated role is committing to something (disagree with faust), even if I think it’s mostly meaningless since most of the roles are probably complicated.

[shraeye]

Are you saying that your only 2 options for how to play this game are to not claim anything at all about your role and make exclusively fluffy posts, or to claim things about your role?

No, those were the choices you listed in your multiple choice question to faust

Classic false dichotomy.  My Quant.Reasoning students would love it.

[shraeye]

I need to figure out why people are voting since we have some serious votes now.

Sorry, slow start for me getting into this game with the weekend then just a case of the Mondays

which ones do you think brought us into "SVS" (serious voting stage)?

[WestCoastDidds]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

Are you saying that your only 2 options for how to play this game are to not claim anything at all about your role and make exclusively fluffy posts, or to claim things about your role?

No, those were the choices you listed in your multiple choice question to faust

But what does this have to do with "winning with faust"?

You seem to be saying that If I wanted to engage in the conversation about roles, there wasn’t any way that I’d have been able to do so without creating an impression that I was outright scummy or piling on for towncred. If I was more concrete, it would be revealing too much. Less concrete, not verifiable.

So, if I wanted to not raise your hackles...I should either comment on those who were talking about their roles or just stay out of it completely, rather than engaging the conversation by reciprocating. I find that thinking this way can make me timid, especially when I’m town. That’s why I said that I thought we’d turned over a new leaf...we have been playing together pretty effectively lately. But not so much now.

[LaLight]

vote: WCD

[LaLight]

very defensive and doesn't feel like usual townie mctownerson

[cayvie]

very defensive and doesn't feel like usual townie mctownerson

I don't see it, she seems townie to me here tbh

[LaLight]

There is no way for me to win with faust.... it’s just a double bind. Say less and it would fall into the fluffy category (which is totally, and unabashedly me...so, hey, nice to meet you!) or be more concrete and then be scummy. Eddie is “my role is meh”, LL is “my role is boring”, Cayvie is “my role is crazypants”.... but somehow I have most significantly violated faust’s ideas about what kinds of statements are scummy or not.  He doesn’t say why, he just votes for me. There is no interaction. So, my response was/is “Le sigh.”

Are you saying that your only 2 options for how to play this game are to not claim anything at all about your role and make exclusively fluffy posts, or to claim things about your role?

No, those were the choices you listed in your multiple choice question to faust

But what does this have to do with "winning with faust"?

You seem to be saying that If I wanted to engage in the conversation about roles, there wasn’t any way that I’d have been able to do so without creating an impression that I was outright scummy or piling on for towncred. If I was more concrete, it would be revealing too much. Less concrete, not verifiable.

So, if I wanted to not raise your hackles...I should either comment on those who were talking about their roles or just stay out of it completely, rather than engaging the conversation by reciprocating. I find that thinking this way can make me timid, especially when I’m town. That’s why I said that I thought we’d turned over a new leaf...we have been playing together pretty effectively lately. But not so much now.

This post rings some bells inside of me

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, FFS, LaLight....how can anyone engage with faust and not sound defensive?

Gah!

*what I really need is to take a walk and get out of my house but it’s raining and there is no place to go and sorry for being snippy

[LaLight]

Oh, FFS, LaLight....how can anyone engage with faust and not sound defensive?

Gah!

*what I really need is to take a walk and get out of my house but it’s raining and there is no place to go and sorry for being snippy

I think I can do that, actually

*I understand you quite a lot, and I support you! The weather will get better.

[skip wooznum]

I agree that committing to a complicated role is committing to something (disagree with faust), even if I think it’s mostly meaningless since most of the roles are probably complicated.

I've been contemplating this sentence for an embarrassingly long time. Didds, I'm sorry if this is getting tedious, but could you expand on what you mean here.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.3:

cayvie (1): pubby
WCD (2): faust, LaLight
pubby (2): EFHW, uncle
uncle (3): cayvie, skip, DatSwan
2.7 (1): MiX

Not Voting (5): 2.7, WCD, Galzria, shraeye, mail-mi

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[WestCoastDidds]

Skip-

I’ll paraphrase because I’m on my phone....and don’t have the capacity to quote right now
 
Faust said that my claim was scummy because saying it was complicated wasn’t verifiable, and couldn’t be used to constrain a future fake claim.

I disagree. At the very least, when I’m dead the complicated/moving parts of the role I mentioned earlier will revealed. If I was lying I’d be constrained from claiming a simple role. My role is complicated and has some moving parts.

My guess is that there are other people that have similarly complicated roles. At the very least cayvie is in that boat. So, I don’t think it is particularly revealing to say my role is complicated because I bet lots of people aren’t sitting with simple roles.

[Galzria]

Changed my mind Just going to post my stream of conscience upon my reread. To make this easy for Ash, I'll start with this on it's own line:

vote: Cayvie

-----------

Game starts at #57

- #66/#67: Cayvie is usually on-point with literally everything. Her reaction to faust noting this first strikes me as off. Cayvie doesn't miss this. Town!Cavie is ready to go with discussion or even brings this up first - !Cayvie says "now that you point it out"
- #68: LaLight, first half not-scum LaLight. Second half, not convinced doesn’t apply to him.
- #71: MiX, sounds like it’s him that’s Third Party saying he won’t get caught by this?
- #88: Definitely think Cayvie isn’t green-text
- #90: In combination with #68 LaLight is town
- #99 – Eddie appears. Haven’t played with him since we orchestrated an everybody loses game. Epic memories. Don’t trust anything he says.
- #101 – Every post Cayvie makes confirms my growing bias that she’s not green-aligned. Town!Cayvie claims quickly/unprompted during a cold day in hell.
- #104 – Does Swan focus on/lock in on setup stuff more as town or scum? <- check back <-- Eh, NAI
- General Thoughts: Skip is giving me town vibes. Faust… I’m not sure. He’s middle of the road, which in itself is weird, as he usually read scummy to me.
- #129 Mail-Mi not human?
- #130: EFHW seems arbitrary here. Not sure if that’s a scummy trait or not.
- #130-134: Lean scummy on EFHW’s approach to reads. Gut feeling.
- #137 is what I expect from Cayvie. It feels contrasted with her earlier posts (not contradictory, just different).
- #138 I agree with Eddie that faust hasn’t seemed normal. Not sure on Pubby. He hasn’t really stood out to me thusfar. Note to focus more on second reread.
- #139 Cayvie agrees with my general thought from line above, but defends it considerably stronger than I would have.
- #145/#146 – Talk about WCD soft-claim. Reread/Follow up - don’t recall/didn’t stand out? <- Wasn’t much there, which seems to be the point.
- #148 : Swan : Thoughts. I’m not sure I agree with his approach to Eddie’s thoughts here. Paragraph 1 I disagree with – but because I myself have found faust slightly off. Paragraph 2 I kind of agree with (point about Cayvie defending Pubby above)
- General Thoughts again: faust has become slightly townier in his posts. Or at least, more ‘fausty’ – that’s mostly NAI I think, but would be expected from town!faust in general, and scum!faust as the game goes on.
- #151 Does Skip have more knowledge of the setup (“Moving parts … make sense with the rest of the setup”) than he should?
- #152 Eddie self-aware. NAI
- General Thoughts : MiX reading generally townie “not really put together” MiX.
- #156 – Didds… I feel the frustration – but the defeatist here… more town or scum? Watch closer.
- #159 – Kinda agree with faust here in reference to #159 above. That’s what I was feeling. Hmm.
- #166 – Why does e! care who is voting for him here? I think he has… 1? 2? 0? votes… Concern seems wrong.
- #167 – Eddie’s response to MiX is townie. Last time I thought Eddie was townie he was scum (so was I, multi-ball)
- #168 – This is where I’m at (agreement with MiX)
- General Thoughts: Don’t care for Shraeye’s approach. Town. Frustrated WCD is… NAI. Would do as town or as scum.

----------

Sorry that's not more put together. I followed through my first intent to re-read, but was having trouble afterwards deciding where I specifically wanted to dive in to - so figured I would just share the thoughts I have had up to this point.

Feel free to prod me on any of those thoughts and I'll try to explain in more detail.

[skip wooznum]

Skip-

I’ll paraphrase because I’m on my phone....and don’t have the capacity to quote right now
 
Faust said that my claim was scummy because saying it was complicated wasn’t verifiable, and couldn’t be used to constrain a future fake claim.

I disagree. At the very least, when I’m dead the complicated/moving parts of the role I mentioned earlier will revealed. If I was lying I’d be constrained from claiming a simple role. My role is complicated and has some moving parts.

My guess is that there are other people that have similarly complicated roles. At the very least cayvie is in that boat. So, I don’t think it is particularly revealing to say my role is complicated because I bet lots of people aren’t sitting with simple roles.

Cool.
So my thing is:
The point of the claim is, as you say, to constrain your future claim so that should you choose to lie, you'd have to make up a complicated/moving parts role. That entails some amount of difficulty,  let's say x difficulty points. What does the presumption that others have complicated roles have to do with the difficulty of making one up?

[EFHW]

Really busy day. Will catch up tomorrow.

[WestCoastDidds]

Skip-

I’ll paraphrase because I’m on my phone....and don’t have the capacity to quote right now
 
Faust said that my claim was scummy because saying it was complicated wasn’t verifiable, and couldn’t be used to constrain a future fake claim.

I disagree. At the very least, when I’m dead the complicated/moving parts of the role I mentioned earlier will revealed. If I was lying I’d be constrained from claiming a simple role. My role is complicated and has some moving parts.

My guess is that there are other people that have similarly complicated roles. At the very least cayvie is in that boat. So, I don’t think it is particularly revealing to say my role is complicated because I bet lots of people aren’t sitting with simple roles.

Cool.
So my thing is:
The point of the claim is, as you say, to constrain your future claim so that should you choose to lie, you'd have to make up a complicated/moving parts role. That entails some amount of difficulty,  let's say x difficulty points. What does the presumption that others have complicated roles have to do with the difficulty of making one up?

I have zero experience making up fake claims. Oh, wait...zero experience on f.ds. It’s literally never happened here. I’m much likely to say too much rather than making ish up.

The one and only time I had to fake claim was in the dice game on Jimmmmm’s lynch pool site. It was an epic fail.

I have no skill or desire to fake claim anything, ever. If I say anything about my role, it will be the truth.

The fact that I think others have complicated roles wasn’t a comment on difficulty or constraint. It was more that I didn’t think it was a controversial or reveal statement when I made it. It wasn’t a calculated revelation. I was responding to meh, boring, crazy pants, with “complicated!”

[mail-mi]

Down for vote: cayvie

Sorry, like EFHW, had a busy day.

[mail-mi]

I'm getting a null read on WCD. She just seems frustrated, which is aggravated by the quarantine situation (P.S. Didds, i feel you).

[cayvie]

Changed my mind Just going to post my stream of conscience upon my reread. To make this easy for Ash, I'll start with this on it's own line:

vote: Cayvie

-----------

Game starts at #57

- #66/#67: Cayvie is usually on-point with literally everything. Her reaction to faust noting this first strikes me as off. Cayvie doesn't miss this. Town!Cavie is ready to go with discussion or even brings this up first - !Cayvie says "now that you point it out"
- #68: LaLight, first half not-scum LaLight. Second half, not convinced doesn’t apply to him.
- #71: MiX, sounds like it’s him that’s Third Party saying he won’t get caught by this?
- #88: Definitely think Cayvie isn’t green-text
- #90: In combination with #68 LaLight is town
- #99 – Eddie appears. Haven’t played with him since we orchestrated an everybody loses game. Epic memories. Don’t trust anything he says.
- #101 – Every post Cayvie makes confirms my growing bias that she’s not green-aligned. Town!Cayvie claims quickly/unprompted during a cold day in hell.
- #104 – Does Swan focus on/lock in on setup stuff more as town or scum? <- check back <-- Eh, NAI
- General Thoughts: Skip is giving me town vibes. Faust… I’m not sure. He’s middle of the road, which in itself is weird, as he usually read scummy to me.
- #129 Mail-Mi not human?
- #130: EFHW seems arbitrary here. Not sure if that’s a scummy trait or not.
- #130-134: Lean scummy on EFHW’s approach to reads. Gut feeling.
- #137 is what I expect from Cayvie. It feels contrasted with her earlier posts (not contradictory, just different).
- #138 I agree with Eddie that faust hasn’t seemed normal. Not sure on Pubby. He hasn’t really stood out to me thusfar. Note to focus more on second reread.
- #139 Cayvie agrees with my general thought from line above, but defends it considerably stronger than I would have.
- #145/#146 – Talk about WCD soft-claim. Reread/Follow up - don’t recall/didn’t stand out? <- Wasn’t much there, which seems to be the point.
- #148 : Swan : Thoughts. I’m not sure I agree with his approach to Eddie’s thoughts here. Paragraph 1 I disagree with – but because I myself have found faust slightly off. Paragraph 2 I kind of agree with (point about Cayvie defending Pubby above)
- General Thoughts again: faust has become slightly townier in his posts. Or at least, more ‘fausty’ – that’s mostly NAI I think, but would be expected from town!faust in general, and scum!faust as the game goes on.
- #151 Does Skip have more knowledge of the setup (“Moving parts … make sense with the rest of the setup”) than he should?
- #152 Eddie self-aware. NAI
- General Thoughts : MiX reading generally townie “not really put together” MiX.
- #156 – Didds… I feel the frustration – but the defeatist here… more town or scum? Watch closer.
- #159 – Kinda agree with faust here in reference to #159 above. That’s what I was feeling. Hmm.
- #166 – Why does e! care who is voting for him here? I think he has… 1? 2? 0? votes… Concern seems wrong.
- #167 – Eddie’s response to MiX is townie. Last time I thought Eddie was townie he was scum (so was I, multi-ball)
- #168 – This is where I’m at (agreement with MiX)
- General Thoughts: Don’t care for Shraeye’s approach. Town. Frustrated WCD is… NAI. Would do as town or as scum.

----------

Sorry that's not more put together. I followed through my first intent to re-read, but was having trouble afterwards deciding where I specifically wanted to dive in to - so figured I would just share the thoughts I have had up to this point.

Feel free to prod me on any of those thoughts and I'll try to explain in more detail.

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

[MiX]

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum. But you're scum, so you can't do the first one, right? I understand, I remember when I got scum after my first game and it was incredibly hard to get a motivation to improve my play.

Vote: cayvie

[skip wooznum]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

Is this sarcastic? If not, explain please.

[MiX]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

Is this sarcastic? If not, explain please.

Cayvie didn't understand what happened "here". Seeing that, pubby voted, I presumed because town would've followed through instead of posting that. EFHW votes pubby because of his vote on cayvie, and I disagreed with EFHW, as I agreed that the specific cayvie post for which pubby probably voted cayvie was indeed scummy, and thus EFHW is scummy.

Is that clear?

[faust]

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum.

Yeah cayvie, just figure who all the scum are, and then we won't suspect you anymore!

[MiX]

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum.

Yeah cayvie, just figure who all the scum are, and then we won't suspect you anymore!

You kid, but that's exactly what I want to see cayvie doing.

[faust]

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum.

Yeah cayvie, just figure who all the scum are, and then we won't suspect you anymore!

You kid, but that's exactly what I want to see cayvie doing.

And I sympathize with cayvie for having been in the exact position she is in now, and it's incredibly frustrating.

[shraeye]

I have zero experience making up fake claims. Oh, wait...zero experience on f.ds. It’s literally never happened here. I’m much likely to say too much rather than making ish up.

The one and only time I had to fake claim was in the dice game on Jimmmmm’s lynch pool site. It was an epic fail.

It was a fail; I think that people imagine they live in a world where fakeclaiming is the norm.  And I don't think that's the world we live in.

[shraeye]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

Is this sarcastic? If not, explain please.

Oh don't you worry; MiX will get around to responding to everything.

[MiX]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

Is this sarcastic? If not, explain please.

Oh don't you worry; MiX will get around to responding to everything.

This is annoying. I had already answered that, you didn't need to take a jab at me.

Congrats you got me to post again.

[faust]

Vote: mail-mi

[Uncleeurope]

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

Is this sarcastic? If not, explain please.

Oh don't you worry; MiX will get around to responding to everything.

Snarkye has awoken.

Let the roasts commence.

[shraeye]

Snarkye has awoken.

Let the roasts commence.

I bet Uncleeurope...ISNT EVEN A REAL UNCLE!!!

[WestCoastDidds]

He is the Uncle of Europe!

Google him! You’ll see...he’s the beloved Eddie to us all

[MiX]

He is the Uncle of Europe!

Google him! You’ll see...he’s the beloved Eddie to us all

I still call Uncle just Uncle. I feel weird.

[Uncleeurope]

He is the Uncle of Europe!

Google him! You’ll see...he’s the beloved Eddie to us all

I still call Uncle just Uncle. I feel weird.

I have many names. I find all of them acceptable.

[mail-mi]

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum. But you're scum, so you can't do the first one, right? I understand, I remember when I got scum after my first game and it was incredibly hard to get a motivation to improve my play.

Vote: cayvie

I don't like this post from MiX. It seems simultaneously consoling and accusing. Then he follows it up with "That's right, cayvie needs to find all the scum." Not sure if it's scummy, but I don't like the vibes I'm getting from it.

[cayvie]

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum. But you're scum, so you can't do the first one, right? I understand, I remember when I got scum after my first game and it was incredibly hard to get a motivation to improve my play.

Vote: cayvie

yeah except my play doesn't even makes sense for scum. i'm clearly looking for advice on how to use my weirdass role, and if i was scum i'd just ask in the qt.

i'm town, dorks.

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum.

Yeah cayvie, just figure who all the scum are, and then we won't suspect you anymore!

You kid, but that's exactly what I want to see cayvie doing.

well then vote eddie!

[cayvie]

and what's with galz constantly calling me "not greentext" (instead of "scum") and thinking MiX is "third party" anyway?

mafia's normally the ones who search for third party players d1, y'all

[mail-mi]

The more I think about it, the more I want to vote: MiX instead.

[MiX]

Eddie's not scum, so, no. Town has better ideas on how to use a loud vig than scum, and you know that. I'm a dork, but you're not town.

and what's with galz constantly calling me "not greentext" (instead of "scum") and thinking MiX is "third party" anyway?

mafia's normally the ones who search for third party players d1, y'all

Weak and low hanging fruit. This is about the lowest effort I could've seen from you, and "y'all" cements the fact that this post looks like something Didds would say, but she doesn't hide how flavorful her posts are.

The more I think about it, the more I want to vote: MiX instead.

Bad and/or you're scum.

[MiX]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

[mail-mi]

The more I think about it, the more I want to vote: MiX instead.

Bad and/or you're scum.

ah, yes, of course, "everyone who votes for me is scum." That, my friend, has another name, it's called OMGUS.

[Galzria]

and what's with galz constantly calling me "not greentext" (instead of "scum") and thinking MiX is "third party" anyway?

mafia's normally the ones who search for third party players d1, y'all

Not "searching" for third party here Cayvie - it's just how that one post pinged me. Didn't really feel like a natural thing to say as traditional town/scum. That said, with MiX everything is irregular. Was more just a note that I could look back on. As it turns out, my read on him developed past just that single early data point.

Regarding you and being "green-text". Yeah, I dunno. That is weird. In my head I had intended to try to define all of my reads based on "green text" "not green text" (mostly due to uncertainty with Ash's approach given last game, and what he stated at the beginning of this game) - but after you (being my first read out of the gate), I devolved back into standard town/scum/third party... except the verbiage around you never changed. I have no idea why except it was just stuck in my head. So now you're "not-green-text" to me, and everybody else is townie/scummy.

[Galzria]

well then vote eddie!

Don't think Eddie is scum, so don't plan to vote there.

[skip wooznum]

Cayvie didn't understand what happened "here". Seeing that, pubby voted, I presumed because town would've followed through instead of posting that.

What do you mean by "followed through"?

[skip wooznum]

Also, to those who are saying eddie is town:

I haven’t played on here in awhile. I forgot the meta was to push a wagon on me day 1 if I am town.

It’s weird how that always seems to happen. I only ever have early wagons as town.

This is a trivially easy, super dismissive thing to say. It's designed to plant doubt in people's minds without actually making a substantive argument.

This is a good wagon. People should join.

[MiX]

Also, to those who are saying eddie is town:

I haven’t played on here in awhile. I forgot the meta was to push a wagon on me day 1 if I am town.

It’s weird how that always seems to happen. I only ever have early wagons as town.

This is a trivially easy, super dismissive thing to say. It's designed to plant doubt in people's minds without actually making a substantive argument.

This is a good wagon. People should join.

But it's true, so...eh.

Cayvie didn't understand what happened "here". Seeing that, pubby voted, I presumed because town would've followed through instead of posting that.

What do you mean by "followed through"?

Like, rereading that part a bunch of times to see what had happened. I did that and it worked, so it's understandable that pubby voted cayvie for not understanding what was happening.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, to those who are saying eddie is town:

I haven’t played on here in awhile. I forgot the meta was to push a wagon on me day 1 if I am town.

It’s weird how that always seems to happen. I only ever have early wagons as town.

This is a trivially easy, super dismissive thing to say. It's designed to plant doubt in people's minds without actually making a substantive argument.

This is a good wagon. People should join.

MiX is right, You could check my other games to confirm. I only get early wagons when I am not pressured to have you people trust me.

I mean, I could be going around without having to make semi-inflamitory statements like “people are voting for me, therefor I am confirmed Town” (it is not lost on me how I sound making such statements).

But I am making those statements anyway, thus drawing attention to myself for no reason.



I kinda like my Pubby vote, still, although not as much.

Vote: Shraeye?

Vote: LaLight?

Vote: mail-mi?

Eh, good enough, I guess.

[mail-mi]

Also, to those who are saying eddie is town:

I haven’t played on here in awhile. I forgot the meta was to push a wagon on me day 1 if I am town.

It’s weird how that always seems to happen. I only ever have early wagons as town.

This is a trivially easy, super dismissive thing to say. It's designed to plant doubt in people's minds without actually making a substantive argument.

This is a good wagon. People should join.

MiX is right, You could check my other games to confirm. I only get early wagons when I am not pressured to have you people trust me.

I mean, I could be going around without having to make semi-inflamitory statements like “people are voting for me, therefor I am confirmed Town” (it is not lost on me how I sound making such statements).

But I am making those statements anyway, thus drawing attention to myself for no reason.



I kinda like my Pubby vote, still, although not as much.

Vote: Shraeye?

Vote: LaLight?

Vote: mail-mi?

Eh, good enough, I guess.

love how you talk about yourself as an easy D1 town wagon, but then put your own vote on the other easy D1 town wagon.

[LaLight]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

[Uncleeurope]

Also, to those who are saying eddie is town:

I haven’t played on here in awhile. I forgot the meta was to push a wagon on me day 1 if I am town.

It’s weird how that always seems to happen. I only ever have early wagons as town.

This is a trivially easy, super dismissive thing to say. It's designed to plant doubt in people's minds without actually making a substantive argument.

This is a good wagon. People should join.

MiX is right, You could check my other games to confirm. I only get early wagons when I am not pressured to have you people trust me.

I mean, I could be going around without having to make semi-inflamitory statements like “people are voting for me, therefor I am confirmed Town” (it is not lost on me how I sound making such statements).

But I am making those statements anyway, thus drawing attention to myself for no reason.



I kinda like my Pubby vote, still, although not as much.

Vote: Shraeye?

Vote: LaLight?

Vote: mail-mi?

Eh, good enough, I guess.

love how you talk about yourself as an easy D1 town wagon, but then put your own vote on the other easy D1 town wagon.

Your argument won me over.

Vote: EFHW

[MiX]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

[LaLight]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

I don't feel like it

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.4:

cayvie (3): pubby, Galzria, MiX
pubby (1): EFHW
uncle (4): cayvie, skip, DatSwan, LaLight
mail-mi (1): faust
MiX (1): mail-mi
EFHW (1): uncle

Not Voting (3): 2.7, WCD, shraeye

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[WestCoastDidds]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

Alright MiX, I’m gonna trust you. I’m not sure I’m all in, but I’m interested in seeing where it goes, and I like it better than Eddie.

Vote: cayvie

[WestCoastDidds]

I just realized this day is super long. Deadline is next Tuesday....a full week from now

[mail-mi]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

[Swowl]

LaLight - obv kind of in agreement, but do you have a specific reason set on why no cayvie? Is it the people on cayvie or is it something about cayvie?

[LaLight]

LaLight - obv kind of in agreement, but do you have a specific reason set on why no cayvie? Is it the people on cayvie or is it something about cayvie?

I don't really. I just like her style and don't want her lynched

[LaLight]

and it doesn't feel different in this game. If it will, I will gladly vote her

[Galzria]

More active defending going on than I’m used to seeing. Not certain how to interpret that.

[pubby]

I am willing to defend active defenders defending people therefore you should interpret defending as good.

[EFHW]

My pubby vote was because his cayvie vote was unexplained. If there was actually an explanation to he had. I'd like to hear it.

[EFHW]

I guess maybe this ship has sailed, but

vote: Didds

Definitely defensive in several posts and now sheeping MiX.

[cayvie]

More active defending going on than I’m used to seeing. Not certain how to interpret that.

Frankly, me too. I'm pretty taken aback by it

[cayvie]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

[skip wooznum]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

I noticed this as well but I'm not at all sure of the improbability of a townie who can't use multiple powers in one night. Is it worth mass-claiming about this? I genuinely don't know.

[Swowl]

I am willing to defend active defenders defending people therefore you should interpret defending as good.

but I mean...you could be skum defending active players or active defenders, or whatever?

[cayvie]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

I noticed this as well but I'm not at all sure of the improbability of a townie who can't use multiple powers in one night. Is it worth mass-claiming about this? I genuinely don't know.

n--no? i don't see how you make the jump to mass-claim here. surely the better way to test the hypothesis is to, like, lynch someone. preferably MiX. or eddie.

I am willing to defend active defenders defending people therefore you should interpret defending as good.

but I mean...you could be skum defending active players or active defenders, or whatever?

(i think pubby's trolling here)

[skip wooznum]

To clarify, I didnt mean full massclaim. I just meant everyone answering yes or no to the question:
Can you use multiple powers in one night?

[faust]

I like to vote for MiX as much as the next guy, but this scumslip argument is thin like butter spread over too much bread.

[MiX]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

[WestCoastDidds]

I like to vote for MiX as much as the next guy, but this scumslip argument is thin like butter spread over too much bread.

I like both this metaphor (mmmm....butter) and the sentiment.

[WestCoastDidds]

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

MiX! I think maybe we have found someone who sets you off as much as I do (or perhaps even more...is that even possible?) with free flow information-sharing. I imagine you throwing up your hands and muttering “get it together, people! sheesh!” Except in Portuguese.

[MiX]

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

MiX! I think maybe we have found someone who sets you off as much as I do (or perhaps even more...is that even possible?) with free flow information-sharing. I imagine you throwing up your hands and muttering “get it together, people! sheesh!” Except in Portuguese.

"Controlem-se gente!" (translation of what you said). And then a swear in Portuguese. That could be me if I talked as much as I write.

I'm just thinking about that BM I played with cayvie, and even when she claimed it wasn't this open. It was day 2, and only because someone had claimed a result on them. This just feels different, in every way. Also the """scumslip""" argument is pretty forced.

Wait you're already voting there who am I trying to convince.

[WestCoastDidds]

To clarify, I didnt mean full massclaim. I just meant everyone answering yes or no to the question:
Can you use multiple powers in one night?

Uhm....this seems really fishy to me

[WestCoastDidds]

I agree that Cayvie seems different. I feel like I am still getting to know her, but I am already 100% certain that she is smart as a whip. The redirection charting she did in the BM game was next level. I like the way she thinks and plays, and I hope she’s back with us to stay because she is a clearly a good one.

But mostly I think it’s funny how you react to folks putting unprompted information into the world. It’s very grumpy old man.

[WestCoastDidds]

I guess maybe this ship has sailed, but

vote: Didds

Definitely defensive in several posts and now sheeping MiX.

I’m listening to MiX right now because I think he’s making sense. But I was more sleeping Galz....it was just too long to quote.

[skip wooznum]

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

Are you frustrated that cayvie revealed part of her role, or do you think she's scum? These are mutually exclusive.

[MiX]

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

Are you frustrated that cayvie revealed part of her role, or do you think she's scum? These are mutually exclusive.

Both? Why are they mutually exclusive? I know that she can be town. This is a possibility. The fact that it's anti-town if she's town makes it look like a scum move.

[cayvie]

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

Are you frustrated that cayvie revealed part of her role, or do you think she's scum? These are mutually exclusive.

Both? Why are they mutually exclusive? I know that she can be town. This is a possibility. The fact that it's anti-town if she's town makes it look like a scum move.

it's not anti-town if it catches scum tho.

and do you really think my original partial claim was anti-town? compare the conversation before the claim to the conversation afterward. i think there's a lot more to go on for scumhunting. a big gain, in general, for the town, at the relatively small cost of some of my role.

[MiX]

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

Are you frustrated that cayvie revealed part of her role, or do you think she's scum? These are mutually exclusive.

Both? Why are they mutually exclusive? I know that she can be town. This is a possibility. The fact that it's anti-town if she's town makes it look like a scum move.

it's not anti-town if it catches scum tho.

and do you really think my original partial claim was anti-town? compare the conversation before the claim to the conversation afterward. i think there's a lot more to go on for scumhunting. a big gain, in general, for the town, at the relatively small cost of some of my role.

We got this conversation. I don't think it's pro-town if you're town.

[Uncleeurope]

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

Are you frustrated that cayvie revealed part of her role, or do you think she's scum? These are mutually exclusive.

Both? Why are they mutually exclusive? I know that she can be town. This is a possibility. The fact that it's anti-town if she's town makes it look like a scum move.

it's not anti-town if it catches scum tho.

and do you really think my original partial claim was anti-town? compare the conversation before the claim to the conversation afterward. i think there's a lot more to go on for scumhunting. a big gain, in general, for the town, at the relatively small cost of some of my role.

And apparently this valuable conversation suggests my guilt?

[shraeye]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

Seconded.  It sounds like MiX pretending to be shraeye.

[mail-mi]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

Seconded.  It sounds like MiX pretending to be shraeye.

join me on MiX, let's make this a wagon.

[mail-mi]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

MiX, I would like an answer to the above question.

[cayvie]

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

Are you frustrated that cayvie revealed part of her role, or do you think she's scum? These are mutually exclusive.

Both? Why are they mutually exclusive? I know that she can be town. This is a possibility. The fact that it's anti-town if she's town makes it look like a scum move.

it's not anti-town if it catches scum tho.

and do you really think my original partial claim was anti-town? compare the conversation before the claim to the conversation afterward. i think there's a lot more to go on for scumhunting. a big gain, in general, for the town, at the relatively small cost of some of my role.

And apparently this valuable conversation suggests my guilt?

yep! at least to me, at least a little bit, at least enough to vote d1.

are we really disputing whether game-relevant conversation is good for town on day 1?

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, disappeared here. Need to read. Might not get to it until day after tomorrow though

[WestCoastDidds]

Lol, this is a townslip if anything, scum usually has the faction kill AND powers and they start knowing if they can do both or not. Also your PR is too strong now so you're the one that failed their claim.

And for the love of god stop claiming more of your role, it was to town's benefit for scum to think you can only do one thing at night! Think before you claim, as town would but you aren't.

Are you frustrated that cayvie revealed part of her role, or do you think she's scum? These are mutually exclusive.

Nah, they aren't mutually exclusive at all.  MiX has a long history of being frustrated when towns people reveal too much, especially if it helps scum.

[MiX]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

MiX, I would like an answer to the above question.

Read my cases? I don't understand the question.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.5:

cayvie (4): pubby, Galzria, MiX, WCD
uncle (3): skip, DatSwan, LaLight
mail-mi (1): faust
MiX (2): mail-mi, cayvie
EFHW (1): uncle
WCD (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): 2.7, shraeye

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[shraeye]

It’s very grumpy old man.

More channeling shraeye

[shraeye]

join me on MiX, let's make this a wagon.

Sold

vote: MiX

[MiX]

join me on MiX, let's make this a wagon.

Sold

vote: MiX

Bad and town. Continue.

[Galzria]

join me on MiX, let's make this a wagon.

Sold

vote: MiX

Alright, let’s make it a party.

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

join me on MiX, let's make this a wagon.

Sold

vote: MiX

Alright, let’s make it a party.

Vote: MiX

Vote: Galzria

[Galzria]

join me on MiX, let's make this a wagon.

Sold

vote: MiX

Alright, let’s make it a party.

Vote: MiX

Vote: Galzria

Shock and surprise!

I’m much more interested in other’s opinions than your reaction here, MiX. Carry on.

[MiX]

Oh okay sorry for reacting then. Continue with your play.

Vote: cayvie

[WestCoastDidds]

It’s very grumpy old man.

More channeling shraeye

I see you, says one gray hair to another

[WestCoastDidds]

Galz, can you explain why MiX?

[Galzria]

Galz, can you explain why MiX?

Not immediately - ask me again in 24 hours or so.

[WestCoastDidds]

Galz, can you explain why MiX?

Not immediately - ask me again in 24 hours or so.

Cool...we got a almost a week : /

[Galzria]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

Seconded.  It sounds like MiX pretending to be shraeye.

Didds, whatcha think about mail-mi’s take?

[WestCoastDidds]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

Seconded.  It sounds like MiX pretending to be shraeye.

Didds, whatcha think about mail-mi’s take?

I think MiX, left to his own devices talks a big game. He has been working on dialing it back, and making more jokes, but his default (to me) is big talk, sweeping edicts, and generally the confidence of the young. He and I have squared off about this in the past, but I feel like I understand him better as a result. (One time he ordered me around, another time he kept saying he was an IC, and more recently he INCINERATED me with a venge kill) I think this is a confident and funny take on cayvie, classic mix but with a bit of levity. I thought it was towny enough to vote with him. But this is all feeling, very little “evidence”, so I’m open to being wrong. 

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not sure what “overplayed brashness” looks like with Mix.

[pubby]

Thoughts on faust?

[mail-mi]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

MiX, I would like an answer to the above question.

Read my cases? I don't understand the question.

So far the case seems to be "she's not as ultra-effective town as normal" which as Faust says is an unfair standard to hold her to. So not much of a case, unless you can point me to some other things.

[mail-mi]

Thoughts on faust?

What are your thoughts on Faust?

[Galzria]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

MiX, I would like an answer to the above question.

Read my cases? I don't understand the question.

So far the case seems to be "she's not as ultra-effective town as normal" which as Faust says is an unfair standard to hold her to. So not much of a case, unless you can point me to some other things.

That’s not at all the case. Nobody expects her (or anybody) to be “ultra-effective town”. She’s as likely as the next person to be wrong or right with her reads. What I do think of Cayvie is that she’s ridiculously sharp, and rarely a thing is going to slip past her notice. To that point, I think scum!cayvie is just slightly more likely to overlook the exact wording of the Town wincon - as it’s extremely close to normal and wouldn’t effect her directly. Town!Cayvie, in my opinion, would be more in tune with something that impacted her.

Cayvie claiming here is just completely out of character for her - but I think is NAI (maybe?) as I’m not sure she would be so bold as scum to go completely against her established Town meta views. So I’m reserving exclusive judgement on this specific data point, even if it combines with the above to put her squarely in my scummy category.

[Uncleeurope]

Thoughts on faust?

What are your thoughts on Faust?

Or his thoughts on anything...

[Swowl]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

MiX, I would like an answer to the above question.

Read my cases? I don't understand the question.

So far the case seems to be "she's not as ultra-effective town as normal" which as Faust says is an unfair standard to hold her to. So not much of a case, unless you can point me to some other things.

That’s not at all the case. Nobody expects her (or anybody) to be “ultra-effective town”. She’s as likely as the next person to be wrong or right with her reads. What I do think of Cayvie is that she’s ridiculously sharp, and rarely a thing is going to slip past her notice. To that point, I think scum!cayvie is just slightly more likely to overlook the exact wording of the Town wincon - as it’s extremely close to normal and wouldn’t effect her directly. Town!Cayvie, in my opinion, would be more in tune with something that impacted her.

Cayvie claiming here is just completely out of character for her - but I think is NAI (maybe?) as I’m not sure she would be so bold as scum to go completely against her established Town meta views. So I’m reserving exclusive judgement on this specific data point, even if it combines with the above to put her squarely in my scummy category.

the thing that had you on cayvie was that she overlooked the town win con?

[Swowl]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

MiX, I would like an answer to the above question.

Read my cases? I don't understand the question.

So far the case seems to be "she's not as ultra-effective town as normal" which as Faust says is an unfair standard to hold her to. So not much of a case, unless you can point me to some other things.

That’s not at all the case. Nobody expects her (or anybody) to be “ultra-effective town”. She’s as likely as the next person to be wrong or right with her reads. What I do think of Cayvie is that she’s ridiculously sharp, and rarely a thing is going to slip past her notice. To that point, I think scum!cayvie is just slightly more likely to overlook the exact wording of the Town wincon - as it’s extremely close to normal and wouldn’t effect her directly. Town!Cayvie, in my opinion, would be more in tune with something that impacted her.

Cayvie claiming here is just completely out of character for her - but I think is NAI (maybe?) as I’m not sure she would be so bold as scum to go completely against her established Town meta views. So I’m reserving exclusive judgement on this specific data point, even if it combines with the above to put her squarely in my scummy category.

the thing that had you on cayvie was that she overlooked the town win con?

like I know that is what you typed up when you entered the game - but that's really the all of it?

[Swowl]

join me on MiX, let's make this a wagon.

Sold

vote: MiX

Alright, let’s make it a party.

Vote: MiX

Vote: Galzria

Shock and surprise!

I’m much more interested in other’s opinions than your reaction here, MiX. Carry on.

opinions to what?

[Swowl]

Thoughts on faust?

What are your thoughts on Faust?

Or his thoughts on anything...

actually yeah homie bump.
Faust?
Mix Wagon?
Confirm you voted cayvie for the reasons mentioned?

[Swowl]

POST#124 - Cayvie saying wtf to pubby's vote.

i don't follow what just happened here.

POST#128 - MiX responding to Skip regarding WCD soft claim.

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

Townpoints for skip as that's exactly what I thought.

POST#156 - MiX states they understand and approve the Cayvie vote from Pubby. Then votes Eddie. Also, then low key points out pubby is taking meta skummy actions after backing their vote? It think?

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

No, this is a good reason to vote cayvie. Scumpoints.

vote: cayvie

vote: pubby

This is pretty much where I’m at. Pubby and Faust both seem a bit off, although I can almost guarantee that there is at least one baddie who is defending a “townier” person.

MiX, for example.

Vote: Pubby

No, not really.

Vote: Uncle, who am I defending?

vote: Uncleeurope

I can get behind this

vote: Uncleeurope

Lol skip's town, have fun being NKd, that's an honor!

Aha so I actually just thought of a way that the softclaim could be scummy, but it's pretty remote. Could you explain why you think it deserves a vote?

Because other people went ahead and partial/softclaimed, and Didds seemed willing to join that crowd for the towncred.

Also, she hasn't revealed anything beyond her role not being super powerful, so all the claim does is help scum. There is nothing in there to hold her accountable when she does claim later on.

Alright.
I thought the "complicated and lots of moving parts" part was a semi-concrete thing that any later claim would have to fit with. Moving parts that make sense with the rest of the setup and are therefore believable are hard to fake, or at least that was my thought.

This except with much less doubt over it's truthfulness than either of you.

I already revealed my role but nobody took notice.

I saw it, there's just no reason to point it out.

Also last time you claimed like that you were scum doing some insane fakeclaim.

POST#159 - random mix post about another player.

Okay, where is Galzria??

Gone! Is he in this game? I think Galz kurking here is NAI, besides my vote's in a better place.

Why do you want him here?

... and then I will save space and stop quoting. There are also posts #161, 163 which are of other topics. then..

POST#169 - MiX votes for E!

"No, not really" is about your reads on pubby and faust, you established that after the post for which I voted you, your behavior says you're town.

Vote: E, "I need to know everyone's reads, gimme them please".

... then galz posts the novel and votes for Cayvie. Then MailMi follows to Cayvie. Cayvie then responds in #201 and then...

POST # 202 - MiX votes for Cayvie

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum. But you're scum, so you can't do the first one, right? I understand, I remember when I got scum after my first game and it was incredibly hard to get a motivation to improve my play.

Vote: cayvie

So I lied I am gonna throw a vote down.


Vote: MiX



Cayvie posts the response about not seeing the town win con prior to anything in the quotes above. In post #124 MiX finds Cayvie skummy for a different thing. Then over the course of the next half the game, MiX moves their votes from *not Cayvie* to *not Cayvie* to *not Cayvie*. Then Galz posts up the thing, Mail Mi jumps on board, and all of a sudden Cayvie is worth the vote? I will concede MiX is MiX and def throws the votes around a lot, so that is kind of NAI. But going 80 game posts, several vote changes and like 10 other responses without wanting to point this out - that is strange.
Kind of a compliment to MiX's game I suppose in the same way Galz's case was to Cayvie - I don't think MiX waits on a case if they have one, and I def don't think they needed Galz to summarize the cayvie case to the extent they did in order to piece it together.



TLDR - MiX throws suspicion around and then ends up on a convenient wagon in a convenient spot.

That was long. sorry.

[faust]

Kewl. Now I'm happy.

Vote: MiX L-2

[cayvie]

i'm pretty confident that Galz is town at this point fwiw. maybe my only townread, unfortunately.

[cayvie]

Kewl. Now I'm happy.

Vote: MiX L-2

were you unhappy before? what is the context of this post, weirdo?

[cayvie]

this day has been so weird, i'm gonna vote: DatSwan. i really don't like how he misrepresented galz's case against me. it was a better case than that! not a correct one, sure, but a pretty good day 1 case, all things considered.

i mean maybe it's just that galz is fairly unusual in that he had significant experience playing with me in the olden days, so i actually give some credence to his thoughts on "how cayvie plays".

but it's weird how swan dismisses galz like that. actually it's not weird--it's buddying.

[faust]

Kewl. Now I'm happy.

Vote: MiX L-2

were you unhappy before? what is the context of this post, weirdo?

Context:

I like to vote for MiX as much as the next guy, but this scumslip argument is thin like butter spread over too much bread.

[skip wooznum]

this day has been so weird, i'm gonna vote: DatSwan. i really don't like how he misrepresented galz's case against me. it was a better case than that! not a correct one, sure, but a pretty good day 1 case, all things considered.

i mean maybe it's just that galz is fairly unusual in that he had significant experience playing with me in the olden days, so i actually give some credence to his thoughts on "how cayvie plays".

but it's weird how swan dismisses galz like that. actually it's not weird--it's buddying.

I gotta say, I'm totally with swan on that, but maybe you could supply me with some background.

In your own estimation, how likely would you say you are to catch the win-con thing?
Are you more likely to catch it as town?
If so, how much more likely?

[shraeye]

Vote: Galzria

Shock and surprise!

I’m much more interested in other’s opinions than your reaction here, MiX. Carry on.

I am surprised.  I had expected him to say "bad and town" again.

Or maybe he's playing duck duck grey duck.  Now you gotta chase him around the circle.

[shraeye]

It’s very grumpy old man.

More channeling shraeye

I see you, says one gray hair to another

Maybe I was born with it; maybe it's Maybelline; but probably it's the stress and tedium of reminding 80-120 students a semester that the answer to every question they've ever asked me is already in the syllabus.

[shraeye]

Cayvie claiming here is just completely out of character for her

Is it?

[MiX]

Mix post, then Mix post, then Mix post (but I think this one's scummy, take note of how he's not scumreading pubby for doing this thing that could be looked as a softclaim like he did when he was scum), then Mix post, then Mix post, then Mix post. Okay, now after this wall, my real argument

POST # 202 - MiX votes for Cayvie

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum. But you're scum, so you can't do the first one, right? I understand, I remember when I got scum after my first game and it was incredibly hard to get a motivation to improve my play.

Vote: cayvie

So I lied I am gonna throw a vote down.


Vote: MiX



Cayvie posts the response about not seeing the town win con prior to anything in the quotes above. In post #124 MiX finds Cayvie skummy for a different thing. Then over the course of the next half the game, MiX moves their votes from *not Cayvie* to *not Cayvie* to *not Cayvie*. Then Galz posts up the thing, Mail Mi jumps on board, and all of a sudden Cayvie is worth the vote? I will concede MiX is MiX and def throws the votes around a lot, so that is kind of NAI. But going 80 game posts, several vote changes and like 10 other responses without wanting to point this out - that is strange.
Kind of a compliment to MiX's game I suppose in the same way Galz's case was to Cayvie - I don't think MiX waits on a case if they have one, and I def don't think they needed Galz to summarize the cayvie case to the extent they did in order to piece it together.



TLDR - MiX throws suspicion around and then ends up on a convenient wagon in a convenient spot.

That was long. sorry.

TLDR: MiX has a scumread and then voted when said scumread is stronger.

Vote: Swan

[cayvie]

this day has been so weird, i'm gonna vote: DatSwan. i really don't like how he misrepresented galz's case against me. it was a better case than that! not a correct one, sure, but a pretty good day 1 case, all things considered.

i mean maybe it's just that galz is fairly unusual in that he had significant experience playing with me in the olden days, so i actually give some credence to his thoughts on "how cayvie plays".

but it's weird how swan dismisses galz like that. actually it's not weird--it's buddying.

I gotta say, I'm totally with swan on that, but maybe you could supply me with some background.

In your own estimation, how likely would you say you are to catch the win-con thing?
Are you more likely to catch it as town?
If so, how much more likely?

oh probably 80% likely. and yeah more likely to catch it as town. maybe 85%. i just didn't!

[MiX]

this day has been so weird, i'm gonna vote: DatSwan. i really don't like how he misrepresented galz's case against me. it was a better case than that! not a correct one, sure, but a pretty good day 1 case, all things considered.

i mean maybe it's just that galz is fairly unusual in that he had significant experience playing with me in the olden days, so i actually give some credence to his thoughts on "how cayvie plays".

but it's weird how swan dismisses galz like that. actually it's not weird--it's buddying.

I gotta say, I'm totally with swan on that, but maybe you could supply me with some background.

In your own estimation, how likely would you say you are to catch the win-con thing?
Are you more likely to catch it as town?
If so, how much more likely?

oh probably 80% likely. and yeah more likely to catch it as town. maybe 85%. i just didn't!

"I'm about 80% likely to catch it, and if I'm town 85%"

Just claim scum already!

Vote: cayvie, I can't join a wagon you're in anymore.

[Swowl]

this day has been so weird, i'm gonna vote: DatSwan. i really don't like how he misrepresented galz's case against me. it was a better case than that! not a correct one, sure, but a pretty good day 1 case, all things considered.

i mean maybe it's just that galz is fairly unusual in that he had significant experience playing with me in the olden days, so i actually give some credence to his thoughts on "how cayvie plays".

but it's weird how swan dismisses galz like that. actually it's not weird--it's buddying.

did you not see the slew of questions I directed at galz followed by the I would like some answers post? I am def not buddying galz - if anything I am buddying you.

My current options to choose between, based on cases I can cultivate without being ridiculous or just isolating lurkers, consist of:

1. Eddie - tried, still would like it, but nothing has happened to build upon it. So I looked to contribute elsewhere
2. You/Cayvie - Which as I pointed out multiple times, the cases that are being made I do not like. Therefore, I am suspicious of Galz (thus the mini-interrogation) and I am suspicious of MiX (thus the vote).
3. MiX - See the wall post.

I am re reading that and it comes of as sarcastic, but it is not meant to. I am just trying to clarify that you actually are getting the facts of what is happening straight here.

[MiX]

this day has been so weird, i'm gonna vote: DatSwan. i really don't like how he misrepresented galz's case against me. it was a better case than that! not a correct one, sure, but a pretty good day 1 case, all things considered.

i mean maybe it's just that galz is fairly unusual in that he had significant experience playing with me in the olden days, so i actually give some credence to his thoughts on "how cayvie plays".

but it's weird how swan dismisses galz like that. actually it's not weird--it's buddying.

did you not see the slew of questions I directed at galz followed by the I would like some answers post? I am def not buddying galz - if anything I am buddying you.

My current options to choose between, based on cases I can cultivate without being ridiculous or just isolating lurkers, consist of:

1. Eddie - tried, still would like it, but nothing has happened to build upon it. So I looked to contribute elsewhere
2. You/Cayvie - Which as I pointed out multiple times, the cases that are being made I do not like. Therefore, I am suspicious of Galz (thus the mini-interrogation) and I am suspicious of MiX (thus the vote).
3. MiX - See the wall post.

I am re reading that and it comes of as sarcastic, but it is not meant to. I am just trying to clarify that you actually are getting the facts of what is happening straight here.

Just a FYI, you buddied Galzria when you said I must've voted cayvie because of Galzria's case. That is what you said, wasn't it? That's your case on me, that town!MiX doesn't need the Galzria case to vote cayvie? If not I would like a clarification.

[Swowl]

Mix post, then Mix post, then Mix post (but I think this one's scummy, take note of how he's not scumreading pubby for doing this thing that could be looked as a softclaim like he did when he was scum), then Mix post, then Mix post, then Mix post. Okay, now after this wall, my real argument

POST # 202 - MiX votes for Cayvie

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum. But you're scum, so you can't do the first one, right? I understand, I remember when I got scum after my first game and it was incredibly hard to get a motivation to improve my play.

Vote: cayvie

So I lied I am gonna throw a vote down.


Vote: MiX



Cayvie posts the response about not seeing the town win con prior to anything in the quotes above. In post #124 MiX finds Cayvie skummy for a different thing. Then over the course of the next half the game, MiX moves their votes from *not Cayvie* to *not Cayvie* to *not Cayvie*. Then Galz posts up the thing, Mail Mi jumps on board, and all of a sudden Cayvie is worth the vote? I will concede MiX is MiX and def throws the votes around a lot, so that is kind of NAI. But going 80 game posts, several vote changes and like 10 other responses without wanting to point this out - that is strange.
Kind of a compliment to MiX's game I suppose in the same way Galz's case was to Cayvie - I don't think MiX waits on a case if they have one, and I def don't think they needed Galz to summarize the cayvie case to the extent they did in order to piece it together.



TLDR - MiX throws suspicion around and then ends up on a convenient wagon in a convenient spot.

That was long. sorry.

TLDR: MiX has a scumread and then voted when said scumread is stronger.

Vote: Swan

ok. fair enough. that could be true I suppose. So then, explain to me how the strength of your skumread on cayvie got to a point at which it was "stronger" that it was originally. Specifically, how were Eddie and E! "stronger" skum reads to you at the time of you voting them than Cavyvie. 
and then something changed, that gave a stronger skum read. So your read on cayvie was less than E and eddie at the time, but something that happened (that was not Galz post, but intuition that gave you more of a read) that made you lean skummier on Cayvie - what was that?

[mail-mi]

I mean Eddie is an easy wagon. MiX is an easy wagon, nail-mi is an easy wagon, apparently I am the easy wagon so what do we do now?

vote: Eddie

Vote cayvie, I promise that, although it will be one of the hardest wagons, we will pull through and lynch the scum on the other side of this dark tunnel! Who's with me?

How are you so confident?

I know MiX is usually pretty brash as town, but this feels like MiX is overplaying his brashness, faking it 'cause he's scum.

MiX, I would like an answer to the above question.

Read my cases? I don't understand the question.

So far the case seems to be "she's not as ultra-effective town as normal" which as Faust says is an unfair standard to hold her to. So not much of a case, unless you can point me to some other things.

That’s not at all the case. Nobody expects her (or anybody) to be “ultra-effective town”. She’s as likely as the next person to be wrong or right with her reads. What I do think of Cayvie is that she’s ridiculously sharp, and rarely a thing is going to slip past her notice. To that point, I think scum!cayvie is just slightly more likely to overlook the exact wording of the Town wincon - as it’s extremely close to normal and wouldn’t effect her directly. Town!Cayvie, in my opinion, would be more in tune with something that impacted her.

Cayvie claiming here is just completely out of character for her - but I think is NAI (maybe?) as I’m not sure she would be so bold as scum to go completely against her established Town meta views. So I’m reserving exclusive judgement on this specific data point, even if it combines with the above to put her squarely in my scummy category.

Thanks for clarifying! I see, the case makes a little bit more sense to me now, but not so good like MiX is saying.

would not be unhappy with a cayvie lynch, but still much prefer MiX.

[MiX]

Maybe the thing I quoted when I voted for cayvie, Swan. Maybe it was that.

For mail-mi, it's the combination of things that cayvie would do as town but isn't doing this game that is making me vote for her. They're too many for her to be town in my opinion.

[Swowl]

Maybe the thing I quoted when I voted for cayvie, Swan. Maybe it was that.

For mail-mi, it's the combination of things that cayvie would do as town but isn't doing this game that is making me vote for her. They're too many for her to be town in my opinion.

So you just needed galz to point it out? That's my hang up. The thing you quoted is referencing the oversight that cayvie made quite some time previously. Did you not catch it then?

[MiX]

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

So this is the post. I don't like the part where cayvie thinks the way to fight a good reputation is to play worse. The true way to fight it is to live up to it, because if you don't you get lynched, that's what a reputation is. I also don't like the "you'd think I'd win" part, being on point on things isn't being on point on reads, and that's really the goal of this game. The comparison to BM29 also feels out of place and it's a completely different scenario, with there someone had basically claimed a guilty result on cayvie and so she claimed in response. Talking about a claim isn't talking about something that can get you reads, or get the game going, making a case is. I don't like the "?" near the end, expresses doubt which is not what you want to show, but is a truth scum like to say.

The throwaway defense about not noticing the wincon and later saying she usually notices it also feels contradictory, but when I voted based on this post it was fine, honestly neither did I, I just noticed the thing that was incredibly useful in the prequel game.

So that's, I think, all I scumread from that post. It's a lot, so I voted, but I honestly just needed the first part about playing worse. Town is optimistic. Scum is pessimistic. This is something I've noticed, town has to stay positive to win, scum doesn't.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.6:

cayvie (3): pubby, WCD, MiX
uncle (2): skip, LaLight
MiX (5): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust
EFHW (1): uncle
WCD (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): cayvie

Not Voting (1): 2.7

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[cayvie]

hi galz! i feel like this reputation i've somehow garnered of "literally on point with nearly everything" is both inaccurate and unhelpful for me (you'd think i'd, like, win games ever if i was that good), and yet it's not the first time i've heard it. i don't like it, and it also feels futile to fight it; what am i supposed to do, make intentional mistakes? pay less attention?

i had legitimately not put it together that the wincon was different from normal until faust pointed it out; i assumed it was just an equivalent phrasing for the normal wincon and not put much thought into it.

and while it is true that it is unusual for me to claim quickly/unprompted (have I ever partially claimed d1 before? i don't think so), i did claim quickly at the start of d2 in BM29, which you were in (if dead at the time). i claimed here bc my role is verging on bastard territory and is likely to make me look bad if i use it. so i figure maybe it'd be more helpful to be public about that ahead of time? and also because the conversation was lagging, and i felt like i didn't have anything to talk about.

So this is the post. I don't like the part where cayvie thinks the way to fight a good reputation is to play worse. The true way to fight it is to live up to it, because if you don't you get lynched, that's what a reputation is. I also don't like the "you'd think I'd win" part, being on point on things isn't being on point on reads, and that's really the goal of this game. The comparison to BM29 also feels out of place and it's a completely different scenario, with there someone had basically claimed a guilty result on cayvie and so she claimed in response. Talking about a claim isn't talking about something that can get you reads, or get the game going, making a case is. I don't like the "?" near the end, expresses doubt which is not what you want to show, but is a truth scum like to say.

The throwaway defense about not noticing the wincon and later saying she usually notices it also feels contradictory, but when I voted based on this post it was fine, honestly neither did I, I just noticed the thing that was incredibly useful in the prequel game.

So that's, I think, all I scumread from that post. It's a lot, so I voted, but I honestly just needed the first part about playing worse. Town is optimistic. Scum is pessimistic. This is something I've noticed, town has to stay positive to win, scum doesn't.

Heh maybe that's what you're seeing then, because I'm definitely a lot more pessimistic than I was even two weeks ago.

[WestCoastDidds]

Right?! It’s so hard to stay positive.

[MiX]

So that's, I think, all I scumread from that post. It's a lot, so I voted, but I honestly just needed the first part about playing worse. Town is optimistic. Scum is pessimistic. This is something I've noticed, town has to stay positive to win, scum doesn't.

Heh maybe that's what you're seeing then, because I'm definitely a lot more pessimistic than I was even two weeks ago.

I mean...but...you can't...sigh...

Yeah just change yourself from one game to another. Sure. I'll believe it when you flip. I don't care, I don't...like the "Heh" at the start of that post, because it goes against how negative the rest of the post is. It feels like, ha, gotcha, I have an argument.

This can be true, but I refuse to read based on it. I refuse to be beaten like this. I'm actually sad now. Good job. Now flip.

[LaLight]

what.. is going on

vote: MiX

[pubby]

vote: MiX

L-1 

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby, stop being evil.

MiX is probably good.

Calling it now, if MiX is bad, ima just be a bit miffed.

[cayvie]

This wagon is wild and super early and I'm not for it.

This game is really really alien feeling. Like mafia on the moon or something, the in game physics feels really different

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby/EFHW are where I’m at right now.

With some honorable mentions that I won’t mention at this time.

[cayvie]

Pubby/EFHW are where I’m at right now.

With some honorable mentions that I won’t mention at this time.

Let's vote: pubby, I really didn't like that l-1 vote

[mail-mi]

For those of you that have played more with him, does MiX often bus early as scum?

Because I'm starting to wonder about a cayvie/MiX scum team.

[cayvie]

For those of you that have played more with him, does MiX often bus early as scum?

Because I'm starting to wonder about a cayvie/MiX scum team.

i mean you modded bud idea.

i think rereading day 1 of that was actually pretty illustrative for me. and is a big part of why i'm uncomfortable voting mix. he's so different here than he was as scum there.

[pubby]

MiX behavior is to vote for his teammate early and often, but always change his vote after a day.

But now that I bring it up he might not do it anymore.

[EFHW]

Galz, can you explain why MiX?

Not immediately - ask me again in 24 hours or so.

Asking again.

[MiX]

MiX behavior is to vote for his teammate early and often, but always change his vote after a day.

But now that I bring it up he might not do it anymore.

But I never actually bus. You think I park my vote on cayvie if I'm her buddy forever? Vote her then, call my bluff. Voting me instead is so useless.

vote: MiX

L-1 

Yeah it's L-1 and I haven't moved my vote yet. Unless everyone other than cayvie is my scumbuddy, in which case, yeah, I have moved my vote, but that's not your argument.

I would reread myself in that fated BM game if I was the one who had to read myself, but I'm not, so check that to see if I did bus, I don't remember it.

[MiX]

Pubby, stop being evil.

MiX is probably good.

Calling it now, if MiX is bad, ima just be a bit miffed.

Uncle is just town. I have a bias, but Uncle's still town and I will die with this information. He's more town than cayvie is scum, let's just say that.

Also if any of you are expecting me to claim at L-1 you're dead wrong. Maaaybe if int to hammer...but I don't see how that's towny.

[skip wooznum]

*looks at available wagon options*. Sigh...

vote: pubby
I guess I could throw my vote there.

Pubby/EFHW are where I’m at right now.

With some honorable mentions that I won’t mention at this time.

How about joining the party? We could do EFHW later.

I'll try to read though this bud idea mafia as it's been referenced now in various and sundry lines of discussion regarding multiple players. Maybe I'll have a more informed opinion when I'm done.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, Galzy, it's been a day and some (and the stakes are higher).  Why MiX?

[WestCoastDidds]

Crickets....

[mail-mi]

Crickets....

I'm not sure what kind of content to add. I still want to lynch MiX, and would be happy with a hammer.

[cayvie]

Crickets....

I'm not sure what kind of content to add. I still want to lynch MiX, and would be happy with a hammer.

Do you think his last two posts were faked emotion? They felt real to me

[mail-mi]

Crickets....

I'm not sure what kind of content to add. I still want to lynch MiX, and would be happy with a hammer.

Do you think his last two posts were faked emotion? They felt real to me

I don't think scum has to fake emotion when they're about to be lynched, in fact, scum would be more likely to be worried than town about being lynched.

[MiX]

Crickets....

I'm not sure what kind of content to add. I still want to lynch MiX, and would be happy with a hammer.

What's your case? Why do you want a hammer this early into the game?

I just want to point out that as scum I play in a way that I don't get a L-1 wagon this early. This happens, and you can't blame anyone but myself for that. Sadly as town I need to catch scum, so here I am, voting for scum.

You can hammer me now, whoever it is that can hammer and wants to. Just dayvig cayvie in the same post.

[Uncleeurope]

Can we not lynch MiX or cayvie?

I recommend EFHW!

[MiX]

Can we not lynch MiX or cayvie?

I recommend EFHW!

That's good. I also like a Swan lynch, and a pubby lynch. Either 4 work in my opinion, in that order.

I'll stick with my vote for now. Tell my why cayvie is town, then I might follow you.

[mail-mi]

Crickets....

I'm not sure what kind of content to add. I still want to lynch MiX, and would be happy with a hammer.

What's your case? Why do you want a hammer this early into the game?

I just want to point out that as scum I play in a way that I don't get a L-1 wagon this early. This happens, and you can't blame anyone but myself for that. Sadly as town I need to catch scum, so here I am, voting for scum.

You can hammer me now, whoever it is that can hammer and wants to. Just dayvig cayvie in the same post.

Case: I feel like you were overplaying your usual brashness. That has toned down now, but that can easily be in response to being read as scummy for it. And there was also this post:

To live up to the reputation, just play better as town, not worse as scum. But you're scum, so you can't do the first one, right? I understand, I remember when I got scum after my first game and it was incredibly hard to get a motivation to improve my play.

Vote: cayvie

which felt off to me. Not the best case in the world, but it's good enough for D1 for me.

Hammer: I feel like you have a good chance of being scum, better than anyone else right now (granted, I probably have my tunnel vision goggles on) so I'd be happy with you being hammered because I think it's our best shot.

[Galzria]

Crickets....

Yeah, it’s been a bit of an irl day for me.

There are questions outstanding that I’ll get to tomorrow - Swan & I are busy socially social Distancing with friends as much as possible this evening.

[shraeye]

Can we not lynch MiX or cayvie?

I recommend EFHW!

Gimme the 'why' of those statements, or it really doesn't sway me at all.

[shraeye]

Why do you want a hammer this early into the game?

I just want to point out that as scum I play in a way that I don't get a L-1 wagon this early. This happens, and you can't blame anyone but myself for that. Sadly as town I need to catch scum, so here I am, voting for scum.

You can hammer me now, whoever it is that can hammer and wants to. Just dayvig cayvie in the same post.

Oh yeah, too early to hammer.  Let's wait and do it on Monday....

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.7:

cayvie (2): WCD, MiX
MiX (7): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby
EFHW (1): uncle
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (2): cayvie, skip

Not Voting (1): 2.7

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[Uncleeurope]

Can we not lynch MiX or cayvie?

I recommend EFHW!

Gimme the 'why' of those statements, or it really doesn't sway me at all.

Ah, yes. My mistake. MiX is probably town, Cayvie could easily be town, and EFHW is likely not.

Seemed self-explanatory to me, but I still should have made my case, sorry about that.

[faust]

Can we not lynch MiX or cayvie?

I recommend EFHW!

Gimme the 'why' of those statements, or it really doesn't sway me at all.

Ah, yes. My mistake. MiX is probably town, Cayvie could easily be town, and EFHW is likely not.

Seemed self-explanatory to me, but I still should have made my case, sorry about that.

Sold.

Vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

Can we not lynch MiX or cayvie?

I recommend EFHW!

That's good. I also like a Swan lynch, and a pubby lynch. Either 4 work in my opinion, in that order.

I'll stick with my vote for now. Tell my why cayvie is town, then I might follow you.

She defended you just a few posts back.

[cayvie]

Thoughts on faust?

Thoughts on faust?

What are your thoughts on Faust?

and pubby's next post, one posting-requirement-unit later:

vote: MiX

L-1 

i'm keeping my vote on this guy.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m down for a little vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

I’m down for a little vote: EFHW

Is that because I defended cayvie?

[MiX]

Can we not lynch MiX or cayvie?

I recommend EFHW!

That's good. I also like a Swan lynch, and a pubby lynch. Either 4 work in my opinion, in that order.

I'll stick with my vote for now. Tell my why cayvie is town, then I might follow you.

She defended you just a few posts back.

Why does that make her town?

I’m down for a little vote: EFHW

You're hungry for some wagons! I love it.

Thoughts on faust?

Thoughts on faust?

What are your thoughts on Faust?

and pubby's next post, one posting-requirement-unit later:

vote: MiX

L-1 

i'm keeping my vote on this guy.

Yeah, you do that while I see how far your wagon goes. I have to say it's been great so far so I don't wanna back down, and it's keeping my options open which is amazing.

[mail-mi]

Unfortunately, the very few posts with Jordan Content 0 (just learned about that in my analysis class, seems to fit the situation) doesn't make pubby scum. He lurks hardcore as scum and town.

[cayvie]

Unfortunately, the very few posts with Jordan Content 0 (just learned about that in my analysis class, seems to fit the situation) doesn't make pubby scum. He lurks hardcore as scum and town.

that's not just lurking though. it's bringing up a subject, and then not having anything to say about that subject. he brought up faust, and then turned out not to have anything to say about faust. it's not just lurking, it's faking participation.

[pubby]

My votes sure as hell aren't fake.

[cayvie]

My votes sure as hell aren't fake.

oh hi there

did you have any particular thoughts on faust you wanted to share when you brought him up as a topic of conversation?

[EFHW]

Yeah, you do that while I see how far your wagon goes. I have to say it's been great so far so I don't wanna back down, and it's keeping my options open which is amazing.

What options are being kept open and how? You are the only one on the cayvie wagon. How is that great? Why are you so happy being at L-2?

[MiX]

Yeah, you do that while I see how far your wagon goes. I have to say it's been great so far so I don't wanna back down, and it's keeping my options open which is amazing.

What options are being kept open and how? You are the only one on the cayvie wagon. How is that great? Why are you so happy being at L-2?

Wait, really? checks wagons oh yeah!

Vote: EFHW

[WestCoastDidds]

My votes sure as hell aren't fake.

oh hi there

did you have any particular thoughts on faust you wanted to share when you brought him up as a topic of conversation?

It’s very cock of the walk! I’m envisioning a cowboy hat and spurs....gunslinger pubby style

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.8:

MiX (6): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, LaLight, pubby
EFHW (4): uncle, faust, WCD, MiX
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (2): cayvie, skip

Not Voting (1): 2.7

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[skip wooznum]

My lynch preference as of now among players with votes is:

Pubby>efhw>>>mix>>>wcd.

Is Faust on the table D1 or is that just not done?
Has he played such a low effort d1 as either alignment? I don't recall reading one. I haven't really honed in on a concise type of case but my nebulous thoughts are something like:

Without necessarily being able to quote direct examples, I've gotten the feeling from some of faust's posts in mafia games and threads discussing mafia meta over the years a certain displeasure with lack of activity/effort on the part of town. (Feel free to argue with this, I don't claim to be an expert. This is based on the small sample size that I've been exposed to.) His behavior in this game looks to me like scum!faust experimenting with what he can get away with. Or maybe teaching town a lesson. I don't know. I'd appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

@faust, which alignment do you enjoy playing more? (I can't say exactly why this is relevant,  but I feel like it might help.)

[cayvie]

My lynch preference as of now among players with votes is:

Pubby>efhw>>>mix>>>wcd.

Is Faust on the table D1 or is that just not done?
Has he played such a low effort d1 as either alignment? I don't recall reading one. I haven't really honed in on a concise type of case but my nebulous thoughts are something like:

Without necessarily being able to quote direct examples, I've gotten the feeling from some of faust's posts in mafia games and threads discussing mafia meta over the years a certain displeasure with lack of activity/effort on the part of town. (Feel free to argue with this, I don't claim to be an expert. This is based on the small sample size that I've been exposed to.) His behavior in this game looks to me like scum!faust experimenting with what he can get away with. Or maybe teaching town a lesson. I don't know. I'd appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

@faust, which alignment do you enjoy playing more? (I can't say exactly why this is relevant,  but I feel like it might help.)

Pubby>efhw>>>wcd>>>MiX for me.

i'd pust faust after efhw in my scumlist. i don't have any finished games with either of them under my belt tho so the meta reads aren't strong.

[skip wooznum]

Pubby>efhw>>>wcd>>>MiX for me.

Have you totally discounted the scumslip? I still think there might be something to it but it may require more info.

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, I will read and provide some sort of feedback today.

My gut after not reading anything and seeing the wagons is that MiX said something terrible and a bunch of people want to lunch him for it. But MiX saying strange things is just a MiX-tell, not a scum-tell.

That being said, reading today, posting today, really sorry I let this slip

[cayvie]

Pubby>efhw>>>wcd>>>MiX for me.

Have you totally discounted the scumslip? I still think there might be something to it but it may require more info.

i haven't 100% discounted it, but i'd definitely lean town on him rn.

[faust]

@faust, which alignment do you enjoy playing more? (I can't say exactly why this is relevant,  but I feel like it might help.)

Scum. But also it depends. Playing scum multiple games in a row is exhausting, so if that happens I like to have some nice chill VT game in between.

[faust]

Also, I haven't played two games parallel in a while, it's possible you're just seeing the effects of that.

[2.71828.....]

So, after reading, I think MiX could totally be town or scum I disagree with the scum slip theory, and he is being is usual level of ornary.

What did stand it to me though was cayvie.

Particularly look at this:

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

At this point cayvie has 3 votes and is potentially feeling threatened as a lynch target.

Then what do we have? I potential scum slip argument, a new wagon, and Bam. MiX is the lead lynch target.

I get the frustration with the whole meta thing (well, maybe not get it since I don't have that problem, but I have seen it with several players here like faust, ashersky, robz to name a few)...just wait for the "you are alive D3 therefore you are scum argument" to show up. But that is all beside the point.

Point is:
1) claims a role (I assume you are being truthful about the role whether town or scum) that is potentially very useful for town but extremely dangerous for scum (with the loud shot and all).

2) fabricates a scum slip that creates a wagon to deflect attention away from you where now you have.....0 votes

3) I don't have a third point.

But still,

Vote: cayvie

[skip wooznum]

What do you think of my recent faust post? If I'm way off don't hold back, I can take it.

[faust]

2) fabricates a scum slip that creates a wagon to deflect attention away from you where now you have.....0 votes

If cayvie is the scum mastermind that could foresee this happening, then we should lynch her indeed.

[2.71828.....]

Is Faust on the table D1 or is that just not done?
Has he played such a low effort d1 as either alignment? I don't recall reading one. I haven't really honed in on a concise type of case but my nebulous thoughts are something like:

Without necessarily being able to quote direct examples, I've gotten the feeling from some of faust's posts in mafia games and threads discussing mafia meta over the years a certain displeasure with lack of activity/effort on the part of town. (Feel free to argue with this, I don't claim to be an expert. This is based on the small sample size that I've been exposed to.) His behavior in this game looks to me like scum!faust experimenting with what he can get away with. Or maybe teaching town a lesson. I don't know. I'd appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

@faust, which alignment do you enjoy playing more? (I can't say exactly why this is relevant,  but I feel like it might help.)

So this is the same thing that faust brought up about sympathizing with cayvie: you get a reputation and it sticks with you.

I think the last time we lynched faust D1 I led the charge and he ended up being town. And I think I probably just wanted to lynch him because it never happens usually.

So long story short.... Everyone is able to be lynched D1, it just happens less frequently to some than others because they are "useful" later on

I always say if you think a person is scummy vote for them. Just build a case. We can always do the mad dash for a Lynch with 2 hours left

[2.71828.....]

2) fabricates a scum slip that creates a wagon to deflect attention away from you where now you have.....0 votes

If cayvie is the scum mastermind that could foresee this happening, then we should lynch her indeed.

Yeah, I wish I had a magic button to reset votes against me to zero to.

I am obviously not saying that cayvie's case on MiX caused her to have zero votes now. It's more a correlation than a causation

[2.71828.....]

But it did start the process. And she is conveniently now at 0

[2.71828.....]

Well, 1 now

[faust]

I always say if you think a person is scummy vote for them. Just build a case. We can always do the mad dash for a Lynch with 2 hours left

Ah, building a case is overrated.

By the way, you should vote for EFHW.

[faust]

But it did start the process. And she is conveniently now at 0

You're also conveniently at 0. I guess we should be voting for you.

[2.71828.....]

But it did start the process. And she is conveniently now at 0

You're also conveniently at 0. I guess we should be voting for you.

Exactly

[2.71828.....]

I always say if you think a person is scummy vote for them. Just build a case. We can always do the mad dash for a Lynch with 2 hours left

Ah, building a case is overrated.

By the way, you should vote for EFHW.

Really? Why is that. Wait, don't tell me. I will iso her

[faust]

But it did start the process. And she is conveniently now at 0

You're also conveniently at 0. I guess we should be voting for you.

Exactly

The only problem is once I vote for you, you're no longer conveniently at 0, so I have to vote for someone else!

[skip wooznum]

So this is the same thing that faust brought up about sympathizing with cayvie: you get a reputation and it sticks with you.

It's not remotely the same. I'm talking purely about activity and effort.

[2.71828.....]

I always say if you think a person is scummy vote for them. Just build a case. We can always do the mad dash for a Lynch with 2 hours left

Ah, building a case is overrated.

By the way, you should vote for EFHW.

Really? Why is that. Wait, don't tell me. I will iso her

Figured it out. It is because she mistook Japanese for Chinese in pregame.

Or is it because she is too friendly and just defending people, handing out town points, abandoning her vote on pubby when that wagon didn't take off (because pubby had a lock solid meta-argument going for him), or something else?

I like my case on cayvie better

[2.71828.....]

But it did start the process. And she is conveniently now at 0

You're also conveniently at 0. I guess we should be voting for you.

Exactly

The only problem is once I vote for you, you're no longer conveniently at 0, so I have to vote for someone else!

Policy voting is hard, we do the best we can though

[2.71828.....]

So this is the same thing that faust brought up about sympathizing with cayvie: you get a reputation and it sticks with you.

It's not remotely the same. I'm talking purely about activity and effort.

I thought you were comparing that activity and effort to previous editions of faust-play.

Which then my comments about reputation would be valid, guess I just didn't quite get what you were going for

[skip wooznum]

So this is the same thing that faust brought up about sympathizing with cayvie: you get a reputation and it sticks with you.

It's not remotely the same. I'm talking purely about activity and effort.

I thought you were comparing that activity and effort to previous editions of faust-play.

Which then my comments about reputation would be valid, guess I just didn't quite get what you were going for

That is what I'm doing but that's not what was happening earlier with cayvie, and it's not in the realm of "he's still alive day 3". Cayvie was getting heat for not producing results, or for missing the weird wording in the win-con, or something silly like that. I'm talking about faust not trying. 

[2.71828.....]

So this is the same thing that faust brought up about sympathizing with cayvie: you get a reputation and it sticks with you.

It's not remotely the same. I'm talking purely about activity and effort.

I thought you were comparing that activity and effort to previous editions of faust-play.

Which then my comments about reputation would be valid, guess I just didn't quite get what you were going for

That is what I'm doing but that's not what was happening earlier with cayvie, and it's not in the realm of "he's still alive day 3". Cayvie was getting heat for not producing results, or for missing the weird wording in the win-con, or something silly like that. I'm talking about faust not trying.

Meh. Could be something there. Or not. Don't think it is worth lynching over

[EFHW]

@e: I am not following your argument about cayvie.  The MiX wagon grew quickly after her scumslip argument.  How does that make her scum? Are you saying her partners voted for MiX once she provided a pretense?

[EFHW]

Also, I haven't played two games parallel in a while, it's possible you're just seeing the effects of that.

Plus I was absorbed in figuring out how to make masks for most of the past week.

If there is a scummy post I made or something,  I'd like the chance to defend myself. Please point me to it.

[EFHW]

Yeah, you do that while I see how far your wagon goes. I have to say it's been great so far so I don't wanna back down, and it's keeping my options open which is amazing.

What options are being kept open and how? You are the only one on the cayvie wagon. How is that great? Why are you so happy being at L-2?

Wait, really? checks wagons oh yeah!

Vote: EFHW

You still haven't explained your jubilation.  I'm pursuing this because it has a "haha you can't lynch me" kind of feel to it that makes me want to vote for you.

[Uncleeurope]

2) fabricates a scum slip that creates a wagon to deflect attention away from you where now you have.....0 votes

If cayvie is the scum mastermind that could foresee this happening, then we should lynch her indeed.

Yeah, I wish I had a magic button to reset votes against me to zero to.

I am obviously not saying that cayvie's case on MiX caused her to have zero votes now. It's more a correlation than a causation

I have often wished for such buttons in the past.

I feel like it could ruin the excitement of having to wriggle free, though.

So maybe having such a button would a lot less cool than I think it could be.


In terms of the EFHW case, I kinda have two parts to it:

1. Day 1 cases lynch town 80% of its time. No case > Case.

2. EFHW hasn’t reacted to her votes until recently. Which is a trait that I typically assosiate to scum.

Bonus third point: 3. I realize that I have just oops-ed myself by making a case against EFHW.

[LaLight]

2. EFHW hasn’t reacted to her votes until recently. Which is a trait that I typically assosiate to scum.

Interestingly I associate this with town

[Uncleeurope]

Vote EFHW, then we can settle this.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, hi, LaLight! I just added you to my list of potential scum candidates!

That’s what you get for disagreeing with me.

[EFHW]

It is true, I was trying to get by with minimal effort,  for the reasons posted above.  Didn't work out. I had a really strong scumvibe from Didds back there. I'll look into a case on her today.

[MiX]

Yeah, you do that while I see how far your wagon goes. I have to say it's been great so far so I don't wanna back down, and it's keeping my options open which is amazing.

What options are being kept open and how? You are the only one on the cayvie wagon. How is that great? Why are you so happy being at L-2?

Wait, really? checks wagons oh yeah!

Vote: EFHW

You still haven't explained your jubilation.  I'm pursuing this because it has a "haha you can't lynch me" kind of feel to it that makes me want to vote for you.

I could vote for you, pubby or Swan. It's great because I have a looot of scumreads when before I only had cayvie, so it's been helpful. I'm not happy I'm at L-2, I'm happy that I'm not at L-1.

[shraeye]

Also, I haven't played two games parallel in a while, it's possible you're just seeing the effects of that.

Yeah, I have noooooo ideab why everyone wanted to start this during day 2 of the other RMM game.  I mean, getting role PMs is fun, but then you have to try to read the same person twice (wait, did raerae misquote ADK is THIS game or the other?),

Maybe this works for people who build reads lists different than me.  But this day 1 started off sloooowww, and it's continued to be slow.  That's gotta be related, right?

[shraeye]

What do you think of my recent faust post? If I'm way off don't hold back, I can take it.

You're way off...and smelly.

[shraeye]

So this is the same thing that faust brought up about sympathizing with cayvie: you get a reputation and it sticks with you.

It's not remotely the same. I'm talking purely about activity and effort.

Uhhh, I think those are exactly remotely the same, then

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, I haven't played two games parallel in a while, it's possible you're just seeing the effects of that.

Yeah, I have noooooo ideab why everyone wanted to start this during day 2 of the other RMM game.  I mean, getting role PMs is fun, but then you have to try to read the same person twice (wait, did raerae misquote ADK is THIS game or the other?),

Maybe this works for people who build reads lists different than me.  But this day 1 started off sloooowww, and it's continued to be slow.  That's gotta be related, right?

A thousand times yes

[mail-mi]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

[faust]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

[MiX]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

Is that even possible??

Are you voting pubby?

[faust]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

Is that even possible??

Are you voting pubby?

No, I'm voting EFHW.

[cayvie]

Yeah, you do that while I see how far your wagon goes. I have to say it's been great so far so I don't wanna back down, and it's keeping my options open which is amazing.

What options are being kept open and how? You are the only one on the cayvie wagon. How is that great? Why are you so happy being at L-2?

Wait, really? checks wagons oh yeah!

Vote: EFHW

You still haven't explained your jubilation.  I'm pursuing this because it has a "haha you can't lynch me" kind of feel to it that makes me want to vote for you.

I could vote for you, pubby or Swan. It's great because I have a looot of scumreads when before I only had cayvie, so it's been helpful. I'm not happy I'm at L-2, I'm happy that I'm not at L-1.

what's your Swan thinking?

[MiX]

Maybe the thing I quoted when I voted for cayvie, Swan. Maybe it was that.

For mail-mi, it's the combination of things that cayvie would do as town but isn't doing this game that is making me vote for her. They're too many for her to be town in my opinion.

So you just needed galz to point it out? That's my hang up. The thing you quoted is referencing the oversight that cayvie made quite some time previously. Did you not catch it then?

After this post, I answered his question, and he never said anything again. Notably, his vote is still on me. I didn't like the reasoning to vote me nor his meh defense of you, and he has quite literally done nothing to change my opinion since then. It's not as strong of a scumread as the one I had on you.

Also, I should definitely be rereading you to see if you're town or scum. I believe the wagon on you and everything around it makes it possible to solve your alignment, I'd just have to dig in and see if that's true.

[mail-mi]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

I was simply commenting on the current wagons.

[cayvie]

this day has been so weird, i'm gonna vote: DatSwan. i really don't like how he misrepresented galz's case against me. it was a better case than that! not a correct one, sure, but a pretty good day 1 case, all things considered.

i mean maybe it's just that galz is fairly unusual in that he had significant experience playing with me in the olden days, so i actually give some credence to his thoughts on "how cayvie plays".

but it's weird how swan dismisses galz like that. actually it's not weird--it's buddying.

did you not see the slew of questions I directed at galz followed by the I would like some answers post? I am def not buddying galz - if anything I am buddying you.

My current options to choose between, based on cases I can cultivate without being ridiculous or just isolating lurkers, consist of:

1. Eddie - tried, still would like it, but nothing has happened to build upon it. So I looked to contribute elsewhere
2. You/Cayvie - Which as I pointed out multiple times, the cases that are being made I do not like. Therefore, I am suspicious of Galz (thus the mini-interrogation) and I am suspicious of MiX (thus the vote).
3. MiX - See the wall post.

I am re reading that and it comes of as sarcastic, but it is not meant to. I am just trying to clarify that you actually are getting the facts of what is happening straight here.

did a reread of DatSwan and realized i had just missed this post entirely the first time through.

yes, when i called your behavior buddying, i did specifically mean to accuse you of buddying me. glad we are in agreement there

[LaLight]

Also, hi, LaLight! I just added you to my list of potential scum candidates!

That’s what you get for disagreeing with me.

you are on my list as well, nice to meet you

[cayvie]

Also, hi, LaLight! I just added you to my list of potential scum candidates!

That’s what you get for disagreeing with me.

you are on my list as well, nice to meet you

god you're not lurking but i literally forgot you were in this game

vote: LaLight

[Swowl]

Yeah, you do that while I see how far your wagon goes. I have to say it's been great so far so I don't wanna back down, and it's keeping my options open which is amazing.

What options are being kept open and how? You are the only one on the cayvie wagon. How is that great? Why are you so happy being at L-2?

Wait, really? checks wagons oh yeah!

Vote: EFHW

You still haven't explained your jubilation.  I'm pursuing this because it has a "haha you can't lynch me" kind of feel to it that makes me want to vote for you.

I could vote for you, pubby or Swan. It's great because I have a looot of scumreads when before I only had cayvie, so it's been helpful. I'm not happy I'm at L-2, I'm happy that I'm not at L-1.

what's your Swan thinking?

Complete honesty I am catching up now, but I am gonna need the rest of the day to catch up and process. I am extremely behind - had some IRL stuff come up with work and I have like no clue wtf is happening in the game since the last time I posted. Bear with me for a few hours.

[Swowl]

Chronological notes on how I got to where I am at now. You can skip them and read the bottom part.

Vote Count 1.6:

cayvie (3): pubby, WCD, MiX
uncle (2): skip, LaLight
MiX (5): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust
EFHW (1): uncle
WCD (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): cayvie

Not Voting (1): 2.7
•   LaLight puts MiX at L2 – meh. Eddie wagon died, if they want to contribute at this point they had to pick between Cayvie or MiX… or like try another new 1 person wagon. Not the worst. I would say based on the timing it would be unlikely for them to be a pair though. So… LL/MiX no go, but if MiX Town then down the road would remember this as possible Cayvie/LL… except right now I think Cayvie is Town… so yeah it is suspiciously timed, but that is it really.
•   Pubby puts MiX at L1 – Same point as MiX/LL. Would lean against Pubby/MiX, same reason as above with LL, and oddly I actually feel like it can’t be cayvie/pubby either because that is just too suspicious. So def a weird vote… but again idk as of yet how it makes me feel.
•   Eddie defends MiX – wants EFHW or Pubby
•   Cayvie doesn’t like Pubby’s vote – votes for Pubby
•   MiX low key hints at having info on Eddie? Says they won’t claim. Which is fine.
•   Skip goes to pubby from eddie.
•   EFHW and WCD ask Galz again for MiX reason
•   Mix wants Swan, EFHW, Pubby lynch

So right after the L1, we end up here… still pubby at L1
Vote Count 1.7:

cayvie (2): WCD, MiX
MiX (7): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby
EFHW (1): uncle
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (2): cayvie, skip

Not Voting (1): 2.7

•   So with the vote moves, all of them were not on MiX and none of them went to MiX.
•   Faust is first to get off the wagon, which is nai honestly at this point, and goes with EFHW.
•   Cayvie not leaving pubby
•   WCD moves from cayvie to EFHW. These too are weird ish I guess. Could be team like things to look at in later days if there are flips among pubby/Cayvie/WCD/EFHW.
•   Mix goes to EFHW
That all gets us here:
Vote Count 1.8:

MiX (6): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, LaLight, pubby
EFHW (4): uncle, faust, WCD, MiX
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (2): cayvie, skip

Not Voting (1): 2.7

*So far I am torn. I really liked my MiX case. But either… it is Skum!MiX and none of his buddies were on wagon and so they all went elsewhere, or it is Town!MiX and lots of skum was already on the wagon? So nothing I guess to take away, it is too early to put much merit into VCA*

•   Cayvie and Skip both post same lynch list of Pubby/EFHW/MiX/WCD. I do not know how that makes me feel. I hate seeing back to back coinciding lists like that because it makes me suspicious, but also it is just kind of Day 1 “here are the options”.
•   E! catches up and goes for Cayvie
•   E! defends EFHW
•   MailMi wants to stay on MiX – but NOW is ok possibly moving to Cayvie. Does not want EFHW.
•   MiX doesn’t like I didn’t respond (sorry, I didn’t respond to anything I was AFK for 2-3 days).
•   And then Cayvie votes for LaLight.

Where does all that put me? I got no idea. Breaking it down:
1)   MiX wasn’t hammered. That actually means nothing. Even if he is skum, a non-hammer is kind of to be expected this early in the game. So there is no real case for like “defense” at this point. I still am getting skummy vibes, but they have done a good job at defending themselves, so my read, both because of that and vote movement, is lessening my skum read I guess.
2)   I kind of don’t get or agree with cases other people have made on Cayvie or EFHW, so I do not see myself going there.
3)   I could see a pubby vote if it is needed.


All of that being said - I have now gone and looked at MiX's response to my comment that they mentioned. For MiX, in my experience, honing in on little things early game like "pessimismvsoptomism" and one liners and things like that is in fact a town trait for them. I do NOT agree with their points on Cayvie, but the points they are making I have seen them make several times (or similar points) as town. As skum they are normally more organized. Also, the reaction at L-1 is NOT a way that I would expect Skum!MiX.

I am not a fan of the EFHW or WCD cases at all. And while it isn't the best, I guess my next would be the pubby wagon in terms of choices. So that is where I will go for now.

Vote: Pubby

[cayvie]

i will say that when skip and i posted our lynch lists of the same four people, it was because those four were the only ones with votes at the moment, not because i thought they were the top 4 scum candidates.

[shraeye]

All of that being said - I have now gone and looked at MiX's response to my comment that they mentioned. For MiX, in my experience, honing in on little things early game like "pessimismvsoptomism" and one liners and things like that is in fact a town trait for them. I do NOT agree with their points on Cayvie, but the points they are making I have seen them make several times (or similar points) as town. As skum they are normally more organized. Also, the reaction at L-1 is NOT a way that I would expect Skum!MiX.

Ok, so mix is no longer scummy, because honing in on things is  a towntrait and they have made similar cases to their cayvie-case as town.

Was mix NOT honing in on things when you voted him? Was he making different cayvie-casea back then?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’ve got kid stuff tonight and in the morning, but have some time tomorrow to reread and see what’s up. Sorry for the MIA

[ashersky]

If we ever needed proof that the world has changed forever, one just needs to turn on the television.  As humans rebuilt society, a way to share information, entertain, and bring normalcy was prioritized.  No one expected that a lasting remnant of the invasion would be intermittent alien broadcasts interfering with the signals...

今日の終わりまで四八時間もありません。注意してください。

Eventually, it just faded into the background for most of us.  But not everyone is so strong.

—Diary Entry, a day during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni

Vote Count 1.9:

MiX (5): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, LaLight, pubby
EFHW (4): uncle, faust, WCD, MiX
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (2): skip, DatSwan
cayvie (1): 2.7
LaLight (1): cayvie

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[cayvie]

If we ever needed proof that the world has changed forever, one just needs to turn on the television.  As humans rebuilt society, a way to share information, entertain, and bring normalcy was prioritized.  No one expected that a lasting remnant of the invasion would be intermittent alien broadcasts interfering with the signals...

今日の終わりまで四八時間もありません。注意してください。

Eventually, it just faded into the background for most of us.  But not everyone is so strong.

—Diary Entry, a day during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni

Vote Count 1.9:

MiX (5): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, LaLight, pubby
EFHW (4): uncle, faust, WCD, MiX
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (2): skip, DatSwan
cayvie (1): 2.7
LaLight (1): cayvie

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

according to google translate, the alien broadcast tells us there's 48 hours left in the day and to please be careful. which is interesting because it's closer to 36 hours, right?

is the implication that the aliens are the ones running this game and forcing us to kill each other? i feel like this might be one of those pay-attention-to-the-flavor games where there's setup hints in there.

[MiX]

If we ever needed proof that the world has changed forever, one just needs to turn on the television.  As humans rebuilt society, a way to share information, entertain, and bring normalcy was prioritized.  No one expected that a lasting remnant of the invasion would be intermittent alien broadcasts interfering with the signals...

今日の終わりまで四八時間もありません。注意してください。

Eventually, it just faded into the background for most of us.  But not everyone is so strong.

—Diary Entry, a day during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni

Vote Count 1.9:

MiX (5): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, LaLight, pubby
EFHW (4): uncle, faust, WCD, MiX
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (2): skip, DatSwan
cayvie (1): 2.7
LaLight (1): cayvie

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

according to google translate, the alien broadcast tells us there's 48 hours left in the day and to please be careful. which is interesting because it's closer to 36 hours, right?

is the implication that the aliens are the ones running this game and forcing us to kill each other? i feel like this might be one of those pay-attention-to-the-flavor games where there's setup hints in there.

It has a delay, so it's far away. This means they aren't in here, which I presume is Earth. But I have no idea what alien race oh no it's the Dornia isn't it. Well that doesn't make sense, but I'd have to do more research into the flavor.

I believe this is a better discussion tomorrow.

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, since the primary case you guys are using for Pubby’s guilt is the only thing I find towny about him, I think the wagon is misguided.

[cayvie]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

you do seem right about that second sentence. i'm down. vote: EFHW

[cayvie]

er, that third sentence. i ignored the "pubby is town" sentence because i didn't like it.

[mail-mi]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

Ah, so everyone is EFHW's scum partner?

Flippancy aside, I see what you're saying but I don't think it makes her scum.

[LaLight]

fine, vote: EFHW

[skip wooznum]

Pubby is town.

What changed since when you said he was one of your top lynch candidates?

[skip wooznum]

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Really? To me it seems like the opposite. People are avoiding pubby. Which people do you mean?

[pubby]

EFHW (4): uncle, faust, WCD, MiX, cayvie, LaLight

wow it's all the scummiest people on one wagon.

[pubby]

edit: that's 6 votes, not 4

[Swowl]

All of that being said - I have now gone and looked at MiX's response to my comment that they mentioned. For MiX, in my experience, honing in on little things early game like "pessimismvsoptomism" and one liners and things like that is in fact a town trait for them. I do NOT agree with their points on Cayvie, but the points they are making I have seen them make several times (or similar points) as town. As skum they are normally more organized. Also, the reaction at L-1 is NOT a way that I would expect Skum!MiX.

Ok, so mix is no longer scummy, because honing in on things is  a towntrait and they have made similar cases to their cayvie-case as town.

Was mix NOT honing in on things when you voted him? Was he making different cayvie-casea back then?

not at all. he was jumping around like a maniac. That was the base of my first case on him. It went
1. Jump around
2. cayvie said the thing
3. jump around some more
4. galz said the thing
5. MiX tunneled.

He did not tunnel, or hone, or whatever prior to galz stepping in. It was the switch in gears that I found suspicious, but as he continued with it, I find it more on the town!mix side of things.

[Swowl]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

wait I thought you thought pubby was skummy? what happened?

[faust]

I'll make an EFHW case. She goes from this

MiX, skip, Swan and Didds feel chummy here.

to this

I guess maybe this ship has sailed, but

vote: Didds

Definitely defensive in several posts and now sheeping MiX.

in the space of not much time, and with not much extra information, and I don't buy it.

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

wait I thought you thought pubby was skummy? what happened?

Well, he was always townier than EFHW anyway, because of the L-1 thing.

To me it looked a lot like the baddies were all on MiX/cayvie (or at least pushing it verbally) and then when the wagon disbanded to one of my picks (pubby/EFHW) all of them went to pubby.

That’s just a general sense I got, hardly scientific.

Anyway, that kind of thing only happens if they are a different alignment.

(Probably)

(Maybe...?)

[skip wooznum]

To me it looked a lot like the baddies were all on MiX/cayvie (or at least pushing it verbally) and then when the wagon disbanded to one of my picks (pubby/EFHW) all of them went to pubby.

That’s just a general sense I got, hardly scientific.

Of the people voting mix/cayvie, didds, Faust, LaLight, and mix went to efhw, swan went to pubby, cayvie went to both.

[skip wooznum]

To me it looked a lot like the baddies were all on MiX/cayvie (or at least pushing it verbally) and then when the wagon disbanded to one of my picks (pubby/EFHW) all of them went to pubby.

That’s just a general sense I got, hardly scientific.

Of the people voting mix/cayvie, didds, Faust, LaLight, and mix went to efhw, swan went to pubby, cayvie went to both.

Sorry for that sentence being really difficult to read.

[faust]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

I was simply commenting on the current wagons.

Indeed, and you were doing so in a way that reards lurking.

[EFHW]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

How many partners do you think I would have?

You're tunneling me for no reason. I object to that.

[MiX]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

How many partners do you think I would have?

You're tunneling me for no reason. I object to that.

Do you think he's scum?

[EFHW]

I'll make an EFHW case. She goes from this

MiX, skip, Swan and Didds feel chummy here.

to this

I guess maybe this ship has sailed, but

vote: Didds

Definitely defensive in several posts and now sheeping MiX.

in the space of not much time, and with not much extra information, and I don't buy it.

That's not a contradiction. I said "chummy", meaning they are getting along too well, meaning I thought some of them were buddying others of them, or that there were connections between them we are unaware of.

[EFHW]

To me it looked a lot like the baddies were all on MiX/cayvie (or at least pushing it verbally) and then when the wagon disbanded to one of my picks (pubby/EFHW) all of them went to pubby.

That’s just a general sense I got, hardly scientific.

Of the people voting mix/cayvie, didds, Faust, LaLight, and mix went to efhw, swan went to pubby, cayvie went to both.

So which people were avoiding my wagon? Your case is a lie!

vote: Eddie

[EFHW]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

How many partners do you think I would have?

You're tunneling me for no reason. I object to that.

Do you think he's scum?

I didn't until I saw skip's post and it became clear that he was trying to convince town of something that wasn't true. Maybe he's just mistaken. I'll unvote him if that turns out to be the case.

[EFHW]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

I was simply commenting on the current wagons.

Indeed, and you were doing so in a way that reards lurking.

Continuing this conversation is simply cluttering the thread.

[faust]

I'll make an EFHW case. She goes from this

MiX, skip, Swan and Didds feel chummy here.

to this

I guess maybe this ship has sailed, but

vote: Didds

Definitely defensive in several posts and now sheeping MiX.

in the space of not much time, and with not much extra information, and I don't buy it.

That's not a contradiction. I said "chummy", meaning they are getting along too well, meaning I thought some of them were buddying others of them, or that there were connections between them we are unaware of.

I see, I interpreted this as "chummy" as in "chum-to-scum list", i.e. not scummy.

[MiX]

I'll make an EFHW case. She goes from this

MiX, skip, Swan and Didds feel chummy here.

to this

I guess maybe this ship has sailed, but

vote: Didds

Definitely defensive in several posts and now sheeping MiX.

in the space of not much time, and with not much extra information, and I don't buy it.

That's not a contradiction. I said "chummy", meaning they are getting along too well, meaning I thought some of them were buddying others of them, or that there were connections between them we are unaware of.

Well, uh, there was no connection between me and Swan, so although we all skip's townread of Didds I didn't buddy with Swan. You can say he buddied me by saying the same thing I guess.

Do you think skip townreading Didds and me and Swan townreading skip's townread of Didds makes us have connections? If anything it looks like independent thoughts that reached the same conclusion as they're based on the same evidence (the Didds and then skip post).

To me it looked a lot like the baddies were all on MiX/cayvie (or at least pushing it verbally) and then when the wagon disbanded to one of my picks (pubby/EFHW) all of them went to pubby.

That’s just a general sense I got, hardly scientific.

Of the people voting mix/cayvie, didds, Faust, LaLight, and mix went to efhw, swan went to pubby, cayvie went to both.

So which people were avoiding my wagon? Your case is a lie!

vote: Eddie

I can see the fire in your eyes with this post. So powerful.

I didn't until I saw skip's post and it became clear that he was trying to convince town of something that wasn't true. Maybe he's just mistaken. I'll unvote him if that turns out to be the case.

Why did you give him a way to lose your vote?

PPE: Same.

[faust]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

I was simply commenting on the current wagons.

Indeed, and you were doing so in a way that reards lurking.

Continuing this conversation is simply cluttering the thread.

You may be right.

Vote: mail-mi

[EFHW]

Well, uh, there was no connection between me and Swan, so although we all skip's townread of Didds I didn't buddy with Swan. You can say he buddied me by saying the same thing I guess.

Do you think skip townreading Didds and me and Swan townreading skip's townread of Didds makes us have connections? If anything it looks like independent thoughts that reached the same conclusion as they're based on the same evidence (the Didds and then skip post).

It was an observation. I didn't draw any conclusions yet.

Why did you give him a way to lose your vote?

I'm just nice that way.

PPE: Same.

Yeah, I realized after I answered faust that if must have sounded like that.

[mail-mi]

Sorry all, had a busy day yesterday and the same today. Will be able to get into this more tomorrow and before deadline.

Still happy with my MiX vote, could see myself moving to cayvie for a lynch, don't really want to vote EFHW or pubby but would do it if necessary.

Yep yep, let's lynch the active players so that Day 2 becomes even more of a slog than today!

I was simply commenting on the current wagons.

Indeed, and you were doing so in a way that reards lurking.

Continuing this conversation is simply cluttering the thread.

You may be right.

Vote: mail-mi

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

How many partners do you think I would have?

You're tunneling me for no reason. I object to that.

Eh, I have a reason, just not one I can properly verbalize.

Obviously.

Thankfully I don’t need a case if we just lynch you and you are scum.

Wouldn’t that be nice.

[EFHW]

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

How many partners do you think I would have?

You're tunneling me for no reason. I object to that.

Eh, I have a reason, just not one I can properly verbalize.

Obviously.

Thankfully I don’t need a case if we just lynch you and you are scum.

Wouldn’t that be nice.

You're not addressing your misleading post about people avoiding my wagon.

[cayvie]

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

The two bolded statements contradict each other tbh.

And anyway, good thing the case against pubby wasn't just "he's lurking".

Yeah, I can go for a vote: mail-mi

[Uncleeurope]

Correct.

[Uncleeurope]

Ehhh, second attempt to phone reply.

Pubby is town.

Let’s just kill EFHW and be done with it.

The fact that given the option of EFHW and anyone else, people will always avoid EFHW makes me unsettled.

Let’s just lynch EFHW and move on.

How many partners do you think I would have?

You're tunneling me for no reason. I object to that.

Eh, I have a reason, just not one I can properly verbalize.

Obviously.

Thankfully I don’t need a case if we just lynch you and you are scum.

Wouldn’t that be nice.

You're not addressing your misleading post about people avoiding my wagon.

Correct.

[mail-mi]

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

The two bolded statements contradict each other tbh.

And anyway, good thing the case against pubby wasn't just "he's lurking".

Yeah, I can go for a vote: mail-mi

they don't contradict each other. smh.

The intent of voting, creating wagons, etc. for me is to lynch scum. Pubby is lurking != pubby is scum. I have also not seen anything in pubby's play that points toward him being scum rather than just pubby. Thus, pubby is not a top priority lynch for me.

[cayvie]

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

The two bolded statements contradict each other tbh.

And anyway, good thing the case against pubby wasn't just "he's lurking".

Yeah, I can go for a vote: mail-mi

they don't contradict each other. smh.

The intent of voting, creating wagons, etc. for me is to lynch scum. Pubby is lurking != pubby is scum. I have also not seen anything in pubby's play that points toward him being scum rather than just pubby. Thus, pubby is not a top priority lynch for me.

if someone is allowed to lurk without being voted for, that encourages them to lurk as scum. you are rewarding lurking, literally, with a non-vote.

[mail-mi]

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

The two bolded statements contradict each other tbh.

And anyway, good thing the case against pubby wasn't just "he's lurking".

Yeah, I can go for a vote: mail-mi

they don't contradict each other. smh.

The intent of voting, creating wagons, etc. for me is to lynch scum. Pubby is lurking != pubby is scum. I have also not seen anything in pubby's play that points toward him being scum rather than just pubby. Thus, pubby is not a top priority lynch for me.

if someone is allowed to lurk without being voted for, that encourages them to lurk as scum. you are rewarding lurking, literally, with a non-vote.

I'm not playing for future games, I'm playing for this game.

[shraeye]

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

The two bolded statements contradict each other tbh.

And anyway, good thing the case against pubby wasn't just "he's lurking".

Yeah, I can go for a vote: mail-mi

No they don't contradict

[shraeye]

So we're back to LALL?

[shraeye]

Could just lynch MiX, it is Monday after all.

[Uncleeurope]

Could just lynch MiX, it is Monday after all.

I would prefer to lynch Scum.

[cayvie]

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

The two bolded statements contradict each other tbh.

And anyway, good thing the case against pubby wasn't just "he's lurking".

Yeah, I can go for a vote: mail-mi

No they don't contradict

grrrrr
*stomps feet*
*spins around in circle like rumpelstiltskin*
removing a disincentive for a behavior reinforces that behavior

and i'm not even arguing LALL (though i would happily lynch pubby)
but not lynching lurkers absolutely rewards lurking, how is this even a debate

and as a draggy game is good for scum, not lynching scum!lurkers doubly rewards scum!lurking.

whatever.

i'm voting mail-mi because i already made the argument to him that the case against pubby was not simply lurking, and he's continuing to characterize it as such

Unfortunately, the very few posts with Jordan Content 0 (just learned about that in my analysis class, seems to fit the situation) doesn't make pubby scum. He lurks hardcore as scum and town.

that's not just lurking though. it's bringing up a subject, and then not having anything to say about that subject. he brought up faust, and then turned out not to have anything to say about faust. it's not just lurking, it's faking participation.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am 100% delighted at the image of spinning like rumplestilskin

I can feel Cayvie's frustration in a real and present way, too

[EFHW]

Speaking of lurking, where is Galz? I forgot he was playing until Swan mentioned him.

[mail-mi]

i'm voting mail-mi because i already made the argument to him that the case against pubby was not simply lurking, and he's continuing to characterize it as such

Unfortunately, the very few posts with Jordan Content 0 (just learned about that in my analysis class, seems to fit the situation) doesn't make pubby scum. He lurks hardcore as scum and town.

that's not just lurking though. it's bringing up a subject, and then not having anything to say about that subject. he brought up faust, and then turned out not to have anything to say about faust. it's not just lurking, it's faking participation.

The case against pubby is lurking + this "faking participation." I see that and acknowledge it, that is why I am willing to jump on pubby should it be needed for the lynch, because he is doing more than just lurking. However, I think we have a higher chance of hitting scum in MiX, and so I will leave my vote there.

[EFHW]

So, MiX, were you sincere in your scumreading of cayvie?

[MiX]

So we're back to LALL?

Wrong game!

I'm not trying to reward lurking, I'm commenting on the scumminess of the people that have wagons. Pubby is always lurky, that's a nulltell. And I don't think EFHW is scummy like everyone else is thinking. Id rather lunch scum than lurking town, personally.

The two bolded statements contradict each other tbh.

And anyway, good thing the case against pubby wasn't just "he's lurking".

Yeah, I can go for a vote: mail-mi

No they don't contradict

grrrrr
*stomps feet*
*spins around in circle like rumpelstiltskin*
removing a disincentive for a behavior reinforces that behavior

and i'm not even arguing LALL (though i would happily lynch pubby)
but not lynching lurkers absolutely rewards lurking, how is this even a debate

and as a draggy game is good for scum, not lynching scum!lurkers doubly rewards scum!lurking.

whatever.

i'm voting mail-mi because i already made the argument to him that the case against pubby was not simply lurking, and he's continuing to characterize it as such

Unfortunately, the very few posts with Jordan Content 0 (just learned about that in my analysis class, seems to fit the situation) doesn't make pubby scum. He lurks hardcore as scum and town.

that's not just lurking though. it's bringing up a subject, and then not having anything to say about that subject. he brought up faust, and then turned out not to have anything to say about faust. it's not just lurking, it's faking participation.

Do you think pubby is scum?

Also, acknowledging that pubby lurking is a null tell is not rewarding lurking, voting someone doesn't reward everyone else for everything they're doing.

i'm voting mail-mi because i already made the argument to him that the case against pubby was not simply lurking, and he's continuing to characterize it as such

Unfortunately, the very few posts with Jordan Content 0 (just learned about that in my analysis class, seems to fit the situation) doesn't make pubby scum. He lurks hardcore as scum and town.

that's not just lurking though. it's bringing up a subject, and then not having anything to say about that subject. he brought up faust, and then turned out not to have anything to say about faust. it's not just lurking, it's faking participation.

The case against pubby is lurking + this "faking participation." I see that and acknowledge it, that is why I am willing to jump on pubby should it be needed for the lynch, because he is doing more than just lurking. However, I think we have a higher chance of hitting scum in MiX, and so I will leave my vote there.

If you were town you would know I'm town by now. I know this because I'm town and after much unbiased deliberation I have come to the conclusion that I am town.

So, MiX, were you sincere in your scumreading of cayvie?

Yes? I still am, but that wagon is indeed as hard as I imagined so I don't see a point in pushing it today anymore, not without a fabulous day 1 case.

[mail-mi]

If you were town you would know I'm town by now. I know this because I'm town and after much unbiased deliberation I have come to the conclusion that I am town.

Ah, so all of mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, LaLight, pubby are scum, so we have a 5 person scumteam in a 14 player game, and all of us have decided to target-lynch you? Plus cayvie and WCD, who have scumread you at some point.

makes sense.

[MiX]

If you were town you would know I'm town by now. I know this because I'm town and after much unbiased deliberation I have come to the conclusion that I am town.

Ah, so all of mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, LaLight, pubby are scum, so we have a 5 person scumteam in a 14 player game, and all of us have decided to target-lynch you? Plus cayvie and WCD, who have scumread you at some point.

makes sense.

Well, cayvie and Didds have found out I'm town. pubby's weird and won't move back his vote even if he thought I was town. Galzria isn't here in a while, so maybe he wasn't read enough to find me town. So it's you, shraeye and LaLight! Gotcha.

[EFHW]

Maybe we can all compromise with the lynch of an acti-lurker. Even though she cheers us up and makes everyone feel welcome, I have to say Didds' participation so far does look like acti-lurking to me. There are 38 posts. 8 or so move the game forward, imo, including two sheepy votes - on cayvie and me. I have a more detailed breakdown but didn't want to be obnoxious. She asks Galz to show up 5 times!

vote: Didds

[pubby]

LALL?

[skip wooznum]

LALL?

lynch all LaLights

[mail-mi]

Maybe we can all compromise with the lynch of an acti-lurker. Even though she cheers us up and makes everyone feel welcome, I have to say Didds' participation so far does look like acti-lurking to me. There are 38 posts. 8 or so move the game forward, imo, including two sheepy votes - on cayvie and me. I have a more detailed breakdown but didn't want to be obnoxious. She asks Galz to show up 5 times!

vote: Didds

i might be persuaded. would be willing to put a vote there if it brings a lynch.

I think my lynch order goes MiX >>>>> pubby/WCD > cayvie > EFHW.

[faust]

She asks Galz to show up 5 times!

To be fair, I totally get that sentiment. Galz tends to completely disappear for days on end. It is extremely annoying.

[EFHW]

LALL?

Lynch all lurkers, literally

[MiX]

I have now reread pubby.

Vote: pubby

There's actually no case other than continuing to vote for me isn't really doing much at this point except making me an option for a real lynch, and at this point I actually care if pubby's reads are right. They're not, so he gets a vote.

[WestCoastDidds]

If we are going to lynch a lurker, Galz is the luckiest of the bunch.

I apologize for being scare. Two games and the swift switch to online teaching have kicked my ass a little bit. But if not being as available as we had hoped is full on scummy, I’m not at the top of that list.

I’m inclined to move to pubby, although I think EFHW is still a good choice. Anyone know where we are at vote count wise? I know deadline is in the morning.

[WestCoastDidds]

J think maybe this is where we’re at? Sheesh...that’s an ugly spread

MiX (4): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, pubby
EFHW (3): uncle, WCD, LaLight
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (3): skip, DatSwan, MiX
cayvie (1): 2.7
Mail-mi (2): faust, cayvie

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[MiX]

Why is it an ugly spread?

[WestCoastDidds]

In the interest of consolidation...

My list for lynch preference would be
1. EFHW (knowing my towniness makes me find her suspicious, but I’m the only one who knows that for sure so I get it. But I’m not scum so I don’t think I’m being scummy!)
2. Galzria (there is being busy and then there’s this. We we want to lynch lurkers, here’s the most productive place)
3. Mail-mi
4. Pubby (seems typical pubby to me, but that includes scum pubby)
5. Cayvie
6. Mix

[WestCoastDidds]

Why is it an ugly spread?

I think it’s a lot of spread and like 15 or so hours remaining, which includes 8 ish hours when most of us are sleeping.  Seems like when that happens we usually lynch town, so I’m a bit down about it.

I was kind of aghast earlier in the day when I realized it was a 9 or 10 day long D1, and turns out it doesn’t matter. We just wait until the end regardless of when it is
:/

[MiX]

In the interest of consolidation...

My list for lynch preference would be
1. EFHW (knowing my towniness makes me find her suspicious, but I’m the only one who knows that for sure so I get it. But I’m not scum so I don’t think I’m being scummy!)
2. Galzria (there is being busy and then there’s this. We we want to lynch lurkers, here’s the most productive place)
3. Mail-mi
4. Pubby (seems typical pubby to me, but that includes scum pubby)
5. Cayvie
6. Mix

1. I don't think EFHW's vote on you is scummy. It seems...fine, honestly.
2. Lynching Galzria doesn't rhyme with productive. It's also not productive.
3. No reason, but I understand this and I agree with this stance.
4. I haven't seen how pubby can be useful ever. It's like he has all the negative traits of Awaclus and none of the scary good traits that lets him be like that.
5. Good luck! That'll be hard.
6. Good luck! That'll be hard, I'll make sure of it.

Why is it an ugly spread?

I think it’s a lot of spread and like 15 or so hours remaining, which includes 8 ish hours when most of us are sleeping.  Seems like when that happens we usually lynch town, so I’m a bit down about it.

I was kind of aghast earlier in the day when I realized it was a 9 or 10 day long D1, and turns out it doesn’t matter. We just wait until the end regardless of when it is
:/

Why didn't you hammer me then? I'm sure that would've been much better than me being the lead wagon anyway. The problem with long Day 1s is that you don't go to more interesting parts of the day quicker, not that they should be ending quicker for town's sake.

[WestCoastDidds]

Well, if you’re argument is that it should be pubby or mail-mi, I think your pubby argument is stronger.

I didn’t hammer you he Use I don’t think you’re scum! When you have been, I have known it. I know I’m getting confused between games, but I’m just not feeling it. Besides, I’d rather play with people i read somewhat better than against them (the ulti-buddy, I know).

[cayvie]

It doesn't look like mail-mi is happening. Since I have missed the last two deadlines I thought I would be there for, I'm gonna settle my vote back where I am most comfortable.

vote: pubby

[WestCoastDidds]

Well, if you’re argument is that it should be pubby or mail-mi, I think your pubby argument is stronger.

I didn’t hammer you because I don’t think you’re scum! When you have been, I have known it. I know I’m getting confused between games, but I’m just not feeling it. Besides, I’d rather play with people i read somewhat better than against them (the ulti-buddy, I know).

Fixed my typo above and am following up with my thoughts...

vote: pubby

I will be around for deadline tomorrow, and a bit more later tonight but I need to get out of the house now for a walk while I have a chance! I hope you are all enjoying nice weather, too.

[Uncleeurope]

I’m writing down EFHW’s evilness and Pubby’s Towny-ness in my handy dandy notebook.

[MiX]

I’m writing down EFHW’s evilness and Pubby’s Towny-ness in my handy dandy notebook.

Vote: EFHW

[skip wooznum]

vote: pubby

Why'd you switch?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m writing down EFHW’s evilness and Pubby’s Towny-ness in my handy dandy notebook.

what is your read on EFHW?

[shraeye]

I apologize for being scare. Two games and the swift switch to online teaching have kicked my ass a little bit. But if not being as available as we had hoped is full on scummy, I’m not at the top of that list.

who is?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.10:

MiX (4): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, pubby
EFHW (3): uncle, LaLight, MiX
WCD (1): EFHW
pubby (4): skip, DatSwan, cayvie, WCD
cayvie (1): 2.7
mail-mi (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[MiX]

I should be here for deadline, but only barely, so the day might end without me, as I'm off to bed now.

I'm willing to lynch both EFHW and pubby, and CFD on Swan or mail-mi if need be.

People that deserve a FoS are cayvie, which has managed to stay on my radar, hopefully I'll reread her in the night, and Uncle if EFHW flips town.

Good luck.

[LaLight]

I won't be here for deadline and actually i would much rather lynch eddie. well, vote: pubby is a good alternative

[EFHW]

vote: pubby.

[WestCoastDidds]

I apologize for being scare. Two games and the swift switch to online teaching have kicked my ass a little bit. But if not being as available as we had hoped is full on scummy, I’m not at the top of that list.

who is?

Galz, by like a mile

[skip wooznum]

Depending on how the rest of the day goes, I may have a claim to make.
So don't hammer anyone without warning please thx.

[skip wooznum]

vote: pubby

Why'd you switch?

@didds you might have missed this

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: pubby

Why'd you switch?

@didds you might have missed this

I did!  Thank you...  I switched to consolidate. I don't feel like EFHW's wagon had any steam, and of the people with votes, I prefer pubby over mail-mi slightly. I laid out my consolidation preference list, but I switched when I did because I wasn't certain of my availability this evening. (Its weird to me that I am at home with no really plans but find myself super busy taking care of all kinds if virtual responsibilities....in this case a faculty evening zoom meet up). I still think EFHW is a good move, and if there is a choice in the morning, I'm all in.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.11:

MiX (4): mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, pubby
EFHW (2): uncle, MiX
pubby (6): skip, DatSwan, cayvie, WCD, LaLight, EFHW
cayvie (1): 2.7
mail-mi (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[ashersky]

You may have noticed I stuck to one vote count per day.  As the EOD nears, I will endeavor to be around as much as I can to update counts, etc.

--your kindly mod

[Swowl]

I’m writing down EFHW’s evilness and Pubby’s Towny-ness in my handy dandy notebook.

Vote: EFHW

a thousand times why?

[Swowl]

I apologize for being scare. Two games and the swift switch to online teaching have kicked my ass a little bit. But if not being as available as we had hoped is full on scummy, I’m not at the top of that list.

who is?

Galz, by like a mile

I mean, I am not advocating a case here, but obviously this is true.

[Swowl]

Depending on how the rest of the day goes, I may have a claim to make.
So don't hammer anyone without warning please thx.

If you are gonna do something please do it in like the next few hours for the west coast USA folk. I only got until midnight (3am FT) in me until I shut down.

[faust]

Vote: EFHW

[faust]

I won't be part of a pubby lynch.

[faust]

But also

Vote: Galzria

[pubby]

I don't think I'm voting anything other than MiX/Cayvie today.

[2.71828.....]

It seems like mix or pubby at this point, which is kind of meh.

Pubby would definitely be a low-activity lynch, and mix would be a... MiX lynch.

Vote: pubby

[faust]

It seems like mix or pubby at this point, which is kind of meh.

Pubby would definitely be a low-activity lynch, and mix would be a... MiX lynch.

Vote: pubby

You can be the cahnge you wish to see in the world!

[pubby]

It seems like mix or pubby at this point, which is kind of meh.

Pubby would definitely be a low-activity lynch, and mix would be a... MiX lynch.

Vote: pubby

Yeah that's L-1.

[skip wooznum]

As it turns out, I will not be claiming anything. carry on.

[faust]

I don't think I'm voting anything other than MiX/Cayvie today.

Well, dig your own grave then.

[skip wooznum]

I don't think I'm voting anything other than MiX/Cayvie today.

Are you at all interested in sharing thought/reads, or maybe in answering some questions that were directed at you, or really in any kind of activity that will benefit town? I'll be around for a while and my vote is not set in stone. Convince me you're town.

[faust]

I don't think I'm voting anything other than MiX/Cayvie today.

Are you at all interested in sharing thought/reads, or maybe in answering some questions that were directed at you, or really in any kind of activity that will benefit town? I'll be around for a while and my vote is not set in stone. Convince me you're town.

Sorry, you don't get to absolve yourself of responsibility for this mislynch.

[skip wooznum]

I don't think I'm voting anything other than MiX/Cayvie today.

Are you at all interested in sharing thought/reads, or maybe in answering some questions that were directed at you, or really in any kind of activity that will benefit town? I'll be around for a while and my vote is not set in stone. Convince me you're town.

Sorry, you don't get to absolve yourself of responsibility for this mislynch.

Neither does pubby.

I'll gladly take responsibility for this lynch if pubby continues to be totally unhelpful. What I was doing with that post was
1)Trying one last time to get pubby talking, which, if he were town, he'd have nothing to lose by doing so, and
2)Venting frustration.

[skip wooznum]

How are you so sure pubby is town?

[pubby]

I just haven't been that interested in this game. I read the posts every day, but it's been closer to skimming and I don't feel very strongly about anyone yet. My post about faust was mostly out of laziness and to maintain a 24 hour post rate. I usually don't feel excited about d1.
 
I feel attacked by MiX and cayvie. Cayvie to me feels off compared to how she played last game and I don't understand her votes. She claims I'm the scummiest, then spends a few days voting for other people instead of me (but not galzria?). MiX has done the exact same thing, and is now going for personal insults which I definitely read as scum. I feel like I know MiX the best out of anyone in this game so I don't see a reason to change my vote.

And honestly faust's last few posts defending me feels scummy. I appreciate the defense but man it's not earning him favors.

I don't mind claiming BTW.

[faust]

How are you so sure pubby is town?

Being purposefully obnoxious and cryptic is almost never a scum trait.

[faust]

Also, the wagon does not look reassuring at all. The case for pubby is literally lurking, a case that could be made for multiple other players in this game, but it isn't made for them.

[Galzria]

In Ash’s spirit:

Vote: pubby

[skip wooznum]

Ugh....

I don't know what to do.

Well, I know at least I won't be voting cayvie or mix.

Is the case on galz also lurking?

[skip wooznum]

ppe: welp

[skip wooznum]

@pubby: wanna claim?

[faust]

In Ash’s spirit:

Vote: pubby

I'd have preferred if you channelled ash's spirit for a good old self-vote.

[ashersky]

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

MiX (3): mail-mi, shraeye, pubby
EFHW (2): uncle, MiX
pubby (8): skip, DatSwan, cayvie, WCD, LaLight, EFHW, 2.7, Galzria
Galzria (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, April 7 at 10:00 a.m.

[ashersky]

Thread Locked.

[ashersky]

Justice is served in only so many forms.  In this rebuilding wasteland, imprisonment is costly and difficult.  There are only a few penalties -- pay them in coin or in breath.

If we are to make this world safe and habitable again, we need to find the good and erase the bad.  We try our best.  Sometimes we succeed, and sometimes we fail.

At the time of writing this entry, it remains to be seen if we can make this work.  This co-existence, if that's what we call it, is difficult.  I pray for us all.

—Diary Entry, sunset during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


pubby was lynched.  He was Cochise, the Maréchal. He was Volm.

[ashersky]

*crackle*

Attention all residents.  Attention all residents.  This is your nightly broadcast from City Hall.

A reminder that all orders for night shift work must be received in the supply office by 19:00 forum time on April 8.  That's seven p.m. for you civvies.

Day shift workers are expected to report promptly 24 hours after the order deadline.  That is all.

*crackle*



All Night One orders are due by 7:00 p.m. forum time on April 8.  Day 2 will begin no sooner than 7:00 p.m. on April 9 to account for player VLA and to stagger with other games.

[ashersky]

All Night One orders were locked in as of ~80 minutes ago.

You have ~24 hours remaining for your evening.

[ashersky]

Every sunrise still feels like a privilege.  After so many years of sleeping with one eye open, always expecting to be caught, harnessed, or killed, no one fully ever accepted that peace had been restored.

Maybe because it hadn't.  The Espheni may have been repelled, but evil can never fully be eradicated.  We did our best, especially in the early times, to restore the concepts of justice, goodness, and humanity.  We never did fully succeed, did we?

When was the last time we had hope for harmony and happiness?  Can it ever return?

--Diary Entry, sunrise during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


MiX was shot and killed during the night.  He was Shaq, the Général.  He was Volm.
LaLight was killed during the night.  He was Matt Mason, the Little Prince. He was Human.

[ashersky]

The loss of anyone is a reason for grief.  There are some -- friends, family -- that we never expect to lose.  It is their losses that are the hardest to accept.

Matt Mason's body lies in repose, and in the dawning light he could be sleeping if you were not to pay attention.  But his chest does not move, and almost everyone has a broken heart.

A stranger nears the body, tears streaming down her face.  She takes Matt Mason's cold hand and sits next to him.  She leans forward and whispers to him, "I will never forget you.  I will avenge you.  I promise."

She turns and looks at the rest of the group.  "I'm Rita.  And I do not forgive."


SpaceAnemone has joined the game!  They are Rita, the Forgotten Family Friend.

[ashersky]

Day 2 begins now.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.0:

Not Voting (12): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, WCD, cayvie, Galzria, faust, EFHW, Datswan, uncleeurope, shraeye, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[Uncleeurope]

That makes Space an IC, right?

Also, I swear if someone Vig’d MiX Ima be real sad.

Also also, would ya look at that? Pubby was town.

Who woulda thunk’d it.

[Galzria]

😂😂😂

Clap clap clap

What??? Space? Ash, well the %#*^ done. What is this even?

[mail-mi]

What the heck?!

[WestCoastDidds]

This is crazy!!

Hi Space! Happy birthday week! We’ve missed you!

[Galzria]

This is crazy!!

Hi Space! Happy birthday week! We’ve missed you!

When is their birthday (if it’s not private)

Happy birthday Space!!! It’s XxxRaptor’s birthday in 9 days (you didn’t hear that from me!) and we’re planning a virtual Office Olympics with him.

[Galzria]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

[mail-mi]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Sure vote: efhw

[EFHW]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Wait just one minute! I feel like you shouldn't get to make unexplained votes after being MIA all Day 1.

[EFHW]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Sure vote: efhw

Since the lack of case on me Day 1 was attributed to it being day 1, how will you explain it now?

[EFHW]

Hi Space!

[Swowl]

Hey space, welcome back.

Do youuuu have any idea why you are in the game now as opposed to before?

[Galzria]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Wait just one minute! I feel like you shouldn't get to make unexplained votes after being MIA all Day 1.

My being MIA D1 shouldn’t necessitate my only being allowed to vote D2 if I explain myself.

[cayvie]

That makes Space an IC, right?

Also, I swear if someone Vig’d MiX Ima be real sad.

Also also, would ya look at that? Pubby was town.

Who woulda thunk’d it.

I am not responsible for either death last night.

[cayvie]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

[Galzria]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

Wasn’t me.

[cayvie]

Oh wait I figured something out. vote: EFHW

[cayvie]

And I'll put this out there: I'm 90 percent sure there's a scum bus driver out there.

[Uncleeurope]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

[Galzria]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

It wasn’t a bad hammer. It was 5 hours to deadline, with talk of a shift towards me. I hammered at 2:00am my time, deadline was at 7:00am. I had to sleep. I’ve seen more wagons than I can recount switch in the final 5 hours. I wasn’t willing to take that chance. As there was an infinitely better chance of Pubby flipping scum than me, there was absolutely no second thought to that hammer.

[Uncleeurope]

Except there is not a chance in this world that you were ever going to be the replacement lynch there.

[Galzria]

Except there is not a chance in this world that you were ever going to be the replacement lynch there.

Oh I very strongly disagree with that sentiment, although I appreciate it nonetheless. Faust is in a different time zone than I am, and Faust often gets what he wants. I’m not at all convinced I wouldn’t have been the lynch choice there - and honestly, it wasn’t worth the risk.

[Galzria]

Except there is not a chance in this world that you were ever going to be the replacement lynch there.

Oh I very strongly disagree with that sentiment, although I appreciate it nonetheless. Faust is in a different time zone than I am, and Faust often gets what he wants. I’m not at all convinced I wouldn’t have been the lynch choice there - and honestly, it wasn’t worth the risk.

Further to that point:

If I at all shared your opinion there, then there would’ve been no reason for me to put myself into the scrutiny that hammering there does.

Now, there’s an infinite amount of WIFOM there from me making that argument - but if you honestly believe what you yourself have stated then you must equally acknowledge the validity of my statement above.

[faust]

Except there is not a chance in this world that you were ever going to be the replacement lynch there.

Oh I very strongly disagree with that sentiment, although I appreciate it nonetheless. Faust is in a different time zone than I am, and Faust often gets what he wants. I’m not at all convinced I wouldn’t have been the lynch choice there - and honestly, it wasn’t worth the risk.

Let's see if I do.

Vote: Galzria

[faust]

Also note the different flavors for the kills. One says "shot and killed", and the other just "killed". Uh, and cayvie has a gun...

[cayvie]

Also note the different flavors for the kills. One says "shot and killed", and the other just "killed". Uh, and cayvie has a gun...

yep, and i shot EFHW last night. and it was confirmed to me that i hit my target. so that's why i'm suspecting bus driving.

[faust]

Well, well. The plot thickens. We should keep in mind though that there are things other than Bus Driving that can redirect powers.

[faust]

Also also, would ya look at that? Pubby was town.

Who woulda thunk’d it.

Who indeed.

[2.71828.....]

That makes Space an IC, right?

Also, I swear if someone Vig’d MiX Ima be real sad.

Also also, would ya look at that? Pubby was town.

Who woulda thunk’d it.

I am not responsible for either death last night.

Also note the different flavors for the kills. One says "shot and killed", and the other just "killed". Uh, and cayvie has a gun...

yep, and i shot EFHW last night. and it was confirmed to me that i hit my target. so that's why i'm suspecting bus driving.

These don't seem to line up.

Which is it? You think you were redirected/bus drove/whatever onto MiX or you think that you were not responsible for either death?

[2.71828.....]

Space coming in D2 as an IC is very cool

[2.71828.....]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

"I usually think this is townie"
"You are scummy for doing this"

Just an observation or calling galzria scummy without voting.

Both of which I do think are scummy

[SpaceAnemone]

Hi Everyone!

I'm really excited to be back :-) Sorry for not being around f.ds so much lately! The last few months were busy, and even in lockdown I'm not wanting for things to do! Maxford is my lockdown-lodger, which I'm really happy about. We stocked up on food, loo roll and new boardgames the day we decided we were isolating together. We haven't even had a chance to play one of the new games yet, and it's been 4 weeks :-P

This is crazy!!

Hi Space! Happy birthday week! We’ve missed you!

When is their birthday (if it’s not private)

Happy birthday Space!!! It’s XxxRaptor’s birthday in 9 days (you didn’t hear that from me!) and we’re planning a virtual Office Olympics with him.

Thank you! My birthday was Wednesday (the day Ash sent me my QT for this game!) and it was a big one. I had booked a couple of big AirBnBs in Budapest (where I met Didds last summer!) and arranged for a week of escape rooms and hot baths and eating in exciting vegan-friendly cafes with a whole bunch of friends, but then everyone's flights started getting cancelled and travel started looking less and less viable. In the end, I didn't even leave my house/garden for 24 hours either side of the big day itself, but I still had a lovely day :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

Hey space, welcome back.

Do youuuu have any idea why you are in the game now as opposed to before?

I wasn't in the game before because I /tagged rather than /inned ;-)

I'm in now because Ash likes playing with your heads (and mine!). Coming in to avenge LL's death feels really on-point! @LL, really sorry not to get to overlap with you in this game!!

I've known for a while that I might get to join (I guess Ash needed to prime someone to be ready to drop in exactly when the game required it), but I wasn't aware of the particular mechanism, or details of my role until I got the QT.

[EFHW]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Wait just one minute! I feel like you shouldn't get to make unexplained votes after being MIA all Day 1.

My being MIA D1 shouldn’t necessitate my only being allowed to vote D2 if I explain myself.

Your rights are clear. I'm talking about how it feels. How about you go through Day 1 and let us know where you stand on things? This vote on me seems opportunistic.

vote: Galzria

[EFHW]

And I'll put this out there: I'm 90 percent sure there's a scum bus driver out there.

It does seem like your shot was redirected (or something. I don't know what that something would be),  but how does that make me scum?

[EFHW]

Well, well. The plot thickens. We should keep in mind though that there are things other than Bus Driving that can redirect powers.

What are you thinking of?

[EFHW]

The flips don't include roles. That does expand the possible explanations for my fortuitous survival (sorry MiX/LL).

[EFHW]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

i'm jelly. i have a bunch of powers but they've all got like a 50% chance of backfiring on me.

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

i'm pretty sure i just shouldn't use this power. maybe ever?

so that's me, the clumsy crazy girl with a gun! watch out, i might blow my own face off.

i feel like a call of cthulhu RPG character who wandered into a mafia game lol.

From this description of your role, there's no way you can be so sure there was redirection. Your shot only kills 25% of the time.

Staying on Galz but eying cayvie as well.

[cayvie]

my role is pretty straightforward, boring (((

i'm jelly. i have a bunch of powers but they've all got like a 50% chance of backfiring on me.

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

i'm pretty sure i just shouldn't use this power. maybe ever?

so that's me, the clumsy crazy girl with a gun! watch out, i might blow my own face off.

i feel like a call of cthulhu RPG character who wandered into a mafia game lol.

From this description of your role, there's no way you can be so sure there was redirection. Your shot only kills 25% of the time.

Staying on Galz but eying cayvie as well.

i was told that i hit my target. i have a 50% chance of hitting, and then a 50% chance of killing if i hit. were you injured, EFHW?

[EFHW]

No.

[shraeye]

Faust, is Galz more vote-worthy or less vote-worthy than yesterday?  Or the same?

[shraeye]

cayvie, still thinking EFHW is scummy because she's alive?

[faust]

Well, well. The plot thickens. We should keep in mind though that there are things other than Bus Driving that can redirect powers.

What are you thinking of?

Well, Redirector, Deflector, Lightnight Rod, Nexus, to name a few. And also this is an ashersky game so it could be a variant on any of them.

[faust]

Faust, is Galz more vote-worthy or less vote-worthy than yesterday?  Or the same?

More.

[mail-mi]

Lightnight Rod,

I'd like to have one of those, I'm scared of the dark.

[shraeye]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

"I usually think this is townie"
"You are scummy for doing this"

Just an observation or calling galzria scummy without voting.

Both of which I do think are scummy

Between Uncle and faust, that's a fair bit of shade on Galz for reasons that appear thin-to-nonexistent.  What am I missing?

[Uncleeurope]

Shraeye, just level with me for a sec, no one else has to know.

(Are you scum? Because you have been acting off to me. It may just be that I haven’t played in awhile so I have forgotten, but a constant in my life has been my inability to see you as evil, and that aspect of my world is breaking. I just wanna know, are you an evil, lying, liar-pants?)

See, that’s shade.

[shraeye]

So are you asking me a question, or are you making a point?

[cayvie]

cayvie, still thinking EFHW is scummy because she's alive?

i think she's scummy because i suspect she was bus driven with MiX.

i think if there's a scum busdriver, they're likely to switch town and scum. and MiX was town.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: EFHW

[Uncleeurope]

So are you asking me a question, or are you making a point?

Neither, I was throwing shade.

[cayvie]

I am not responsible for either death last night.

Also note the different flavors for the kills. One says "shot and killed", and the other just "killed". Uh, and cayvie has a gun...

yep, and i shot EFHW last night. and it was confirmed to me that i hit my target. so that's why i'm suspecting bus driving.

These don't seem to line up.

Which is it? You think you were redirected/bus drove/whatever onto MiX or you think that you were not responsible for either death?

yeah i put 2 and 2 together after i posted the first one. it's very possible that MiX was shot by my gun. in fact i think it likely. i mean, someone was.

[cayvie]

Well, well. The plot thickens. We should keep in mind though that there are things other than Bus Driving that can redirect powers.

What are you thinking of?

Well, Redirector, Deflector, Lightnight Rod, Nexus, to name a few. And also this is an ashersky game so it could be a variant on any of them.

and yet of those options i am confident it was busdriver. i guess it could be deflector. i'm not sure that's any less scummy.

the other thing i was thinking was some action that just randomized everyone's targets tonight, but i put that at substantially less likely.

[Swowl]

cayvie, still thinking EFHW is scummy because she's alive?

i think she's scummy because i suspect she was bus driven with MiX.

i think if there's a scum busdriver, they're likely to switch town and scum. and MiX was town.

I mean, I think it is more likely in this order (under the assumption that you are actually town):

1) You were re directed by skum in some way. like as in a role where they get to target you and then a new target. I think that is just re director but not sure. That is just because you had the claimed vig shot. So they could pick you and another town and if you fire it is like defense off of you possibly hitting any of them.

2) Bus driver could be an option. But I do not think that really paints EFHW as so skummy. Or at least not any more than not skummy. I think skum bus driver there could either put it off of efhw onto town or it could be skum bus driver from town to town just to attempt to mess with stuff.

3) town bus driver

4) other stuff

Questions:
a) Does anyone have any info regarding the other death?
b) Cayvie - you originally said you have a 25% chance of killing the target. Is that correct? Or is it 50% chance to hit and then if hit 50% chance to kill (I get that is 25%, but it could make a difference)?
c) EFHW - did you get anything from the 75% loud modifier?
d) If skum-x targets town-x with a NK, then skum bus driver switches town-x with town-y... then town-tracker tracks skum-x... what result does tracker get? the original target or the target the bus driver switched to?

[cayvie]

cayvie, still thinking EFHW is scummy because she's alive?

i think she's scummy because i suspect she was bus driven with MiX.

i think if there's a scum busdriver, they're likely to switch town and scum. and MiX was town.

I mean, I think it is more likely in this order (under the assumption that you are actually town):

1) You were re directed by skum in some way. like as in a role where they get to target you and then a new target. I think that is just re director but not sure. That is just because you had the claimed vig shot. So they could pick you and another town and if you fire it is like defense off of you possibly hitting any of them.

2) Bus driver could be an option. But I do not think that really paints EFHW as so skummy. Or at least not any more than not skummy. I think skum bus driver there could either put it off of efhw onto town or it could be skum bus driver from town to town just to attempt to mess with stuff.

3) town bus driver

4) other stuff

Questions:
a) Does anyone have any info regarding the other death?
b) Cayvie - you originally said you have a 25% chance of killing the target. Is that correct? Or is it 50% chance to hit and then if hit 50% chance to kill (I get that is 25%, but it could make a difference)?
c) EFHW - did you get anything from the 75% loud modifier?
d) If skum-x targets town-x with a NK, then skum bus driver switches town-x with town-y... then town-tracker tracks skum-x... what result does tracker get? the original target or the target the bus driver switched to?

i think it is a less than 1% chance that i was redirected. a bus driver is far more likely.

b: it is the second. 50% to hit, then 50% to kill. and i guess i find out if i hit but not necessarily if i killed (didn't know that before last night)

[EFHW]

c) no message

[mail-mi]

c) no message

Not sure if you'd be willing to claim this, but are you a Nexus?

[EFHW]

No.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.1:

EFHW (4): Galzria, mail-mi, cayvie, uncle
Galzria (2): faust, EFHW

Not Voting (12): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, WCD, Datswan, shraeye, skip wooznum

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[shraeye]

What's the difference between bus driver and redirector?

[Swowl]

What's the difference between bus driver and redirector?

*If I understand it correctly*

RD - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Any actions Player A takes now target to Player B.

Bus Driver - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Anything Player A was targeted with now targets Player B instead.

So, the distinction is taking someone you that is TAKING AN ACTION and forcing them to target someone else, vs taking someone who is TARGETED BY AN ACTION and forcing that action onto someone else. I think at least.

[Swowl]

cayvie, still thinking EFHW is scummy because she's alive?

i think she's scummy because i suspect she was bus driven with MiX.

i think if there's a scum busdriver, they're likely to switch town and scum. and MiX was town.

I mean, I think it is more likely in this order (under the assumption that you are actually town):

1) You were re directed by skum in some way. like as in a role where they get to target you and then a new target. I think that is just re director but not sure. That is just because you had the claimed vig shot. So they could pick you and another town and if you fire it is like defense off of you possibly hitting any of them.

2) Bus driver could be an option. But I do not think that really paints EFHW as so skummy. Or at least not any more than not skummy. I think skum bus driver there could either put it off of efhw onto town or it could be skum bus driver from town to town just to attempt to mess with stuff.

3) town bus driver

4) other stuff

Questions:
a) Does anyone have any info regarding the other death?
b) Cayvie - you originally said you have a 25% chance of killing the target. Is that correct? Or is it 50% chance to hit and then if hit 50% chance to kill (I get that is 25%, but it could make a difference)?
c) EFHW - did you get anything from the 75% loud modifier?
d) If skum-x targets town-x with a NK, then skum bus driver switches town-x with town-y... then town-tracker tracks skum-x... what result does tracker get? the original target or the target the bus driver switched to?

i think it is a less than 1% chance that i was redirected. a bus driver is far more likely.

b: it is the second. 50% to hit, then 50% to kill. and i guess i find out if i hit but not necessarily if i killed (didn't know that before last night)

Is there a reason you think it is so unlikely you were not targeted by a re director? I could be missing something, but I feel as if you would of been a prime target for a skum RD after you claimed what you did.

[shraeye]

Got it, yeah, given cayvies claim scum, redirector and bus driver seem equalky incentivized to target her.  I could see a town redirector thinking they could target her to "control" her shot.  A mix of hedging bets in case she's scum and arrogantly thinking their reads are better than anyone elses (we don't have any players like that....arrogant shraeye says)

[mail-mi]

What's the difference between bus driver and redirector?

*If I understand it correctly*

RD - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Any actions Player A takes now target to Player B.

Bus Driver - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Anything Player A was targeted with now targets Player B instead.

So, the distinction is taking someone you that is TAKING AN ACTION and forcing them to target someone else, vs taking someone who is TARGETED BY AN ACTION and forcing that action onto someone else. I think at least.

Whenever I mod with a bus driver, it's worked like if you busdrive A and B, all actions player A takes target player B and all actions B takes targets player A.

[cayvie]

What's the difference between bus driver and redirector?

*If I understand it correctly*

RD - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Any actions Player A takes now target to Player B.

Bus Driver - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Anything Player A was targeted with now targets Player B instead.

So, the distinction is taking someone you that is TAKING AN ACTION and forcing them to target someone else, vs taking someone who is TARGETED BY AN ACTION and forcing that action onto someone else. I think at least.

Whenever I mod with a bus driver, it's worked like if you busdrive A and B, all actions player A takes target player B and all actions B takes targets player A.

i am using Bus Driver to refer to "all actions that would target A target B instead and vice versa"

Is there a reason you think it is so unlikely you were not targeted by a re director? I could be missing something, but I feel as if you would of been a prime target for a skum RD after you claimed what you did.

yes, there is a reason. i took more than one targeted action last night.

[Swowl]

What's the difference between bus driver and redirector?

*If I understand it correctly*

RD - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Any actions Player A takes now target to Player B.

Bus Driver - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Anything Player A was targeted with now targets Player B instead.

So, the distinction is taking someone you that is TAKING AN ACTION and forcing them to target someone else, vs taking someone who is TARGETED BY AN ACTION and forcing that action onto someone else. I think at least.

Whenever I mod with a bus driver, it's worked like if you busdrive A and B, all actions player A takes target player B and all actions B takes targets player A.

i am using Bus Driver to refer to "all actions that would target A target B instead and vice versa"

Is there a reason you think it is so unlikely you were not targeted by a re director? I could be missing something, but I feel as if you would of been a prime target for a skum RD after you claimed what you did.

yes, there is a reason. i took more than one targeted action last night.

So if bus driver is swapping then i get it. I still think re director is a likely candidate. What am i missing on that? Am i just being dumb?
Skum A shoots someone.
You target efoo
Skum B RDs your shot to the other death.
Why is that not plausible?

[cayvie]

What's the difference between bus driver and redirector?

*If I understand it correctly*

RD - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Any actions Player A takes now target to Player B.

Bus Driver - Pick Player A, Pick Player B. Anything Player A was targeted with now targets Player B instead.

So, the distinction is taking someone you that is TAKING AN ACTION and forcing them to target someone else, vs taking someone who is TARGETED BY AN ACTION and forcing that action onto someone else. I think at least.

Whenever I mod with a bus driver, it's worked like if you busdrive A and B, all actions player A takes target player B and all actions B takes targets player A.

i am using Bus Driver to refer to "all actions that would target A target B instead and vice versa"

Is there a reason you think it is so unlikely you were not targeted by a re director? I could be missing something, but I feel as if you would of been a prime target for a skum RD after you claimed what you did.

yes, there is a reason. i took more than one targeted action last night.

So if bus driver is swapping then i get it. I still think re director is a likely candidate. What am i missing on that? Am i just being dumb?
Skum A shoots someone.
You target efoo
Skum B RDs your shot to the other death.
Why is that not plausible?

because presumably if a redirector gave the order "redirect cayvie to MiX", then *all* my actions would target MiX. which didn't happen.

[2.71828.....]

because presumably if a redirector gave the order "redirect cayvie to MiX", then *all* my actions would target MiX. which didn't happen.

That does make your specific bus driver theory much more likely

[2.71828.....]

because presumably if a redirector gave the order "redirect cayvie to MiX", then *all* my actions would target MiX. which didn't happen.

That does make your specific bus driver theory much more likely

Did anyone else target EFHW/MiX? Could potentially confirm cayvie's claim

[faust]

cayvie: Can you confirm that your kill would show up flavored as "shot and killed"?

EFHW: What is your read on cayvie?

[2.71828.....]

Also, I reread faust for a case on Galzria.

There is none.

But it is an entertaining read. faust is having fun with this game, I like it. D2 pass for sure.

[2.71828.....]

Reread Galzria myself, and I can see the votes.

Scummary to get into the game D1. Overreacting to votes against him.

I can sheep faust

Vote: Galzria

[cayvie]

cayvie: Can you confirm that your kill would show up flavored as "shot and killed"?

EFHW: What is your read on cayvie?

paraphrasing, i'm told that if i hit my target, the opening day flavor will say they were shot, whether or not i killed them.

[Swowl]

because presumably if a redirector gave the order "redirect cayvie to MiX", then *all* my actions would target MiX. which didn't happen.

OK. I think I get it? I am not gonna ask the obvious question here, because I don't see what would be gained from anyone answering at this point.

[Swowl]

Vote: E!

[2.71828.....]

because presumably if a redirector gave the order "redirect cayvie to MiX", then *all* my actions would target MiX. which didn't happen.

OK. I think I get it? I am not gonna ask the obvious question here, because I don't see what would be gained from anyone answering at this point.

Vote: E!

Are these posts related? Because you will have to explain it a bit more for me

[2.71828.....]

Quote fail

[Swowl]

because presumably if a redirector gave the order "redirect cayvie to MiX", then *all* my actions would target MiX. which didn't happen.

OK. I think I get it? I am not gonna ask the obvious question here, because I don't see what would be gained from anyone answering at this point.

Vote: E!

Are these posts related? Because you will have to explain it a bit more for me

They are not related.

[Swowl]

damn we are bad at that. fail again.

No - the cayvie quote is not related to the vote on you.

[2.71828.....]

damn we are bad at that. fail again.

No - the cayvie quote is not related to the vote on you.

Oh, ok. Carry on then

[EFHW]

cayvie: Can you confirm that your kill would show up flavored as "shot and killed"?

EFHW: What is your read on cayvie?

I have OMGUS toward cayvie. I'm frustrated because I don't know what happened, and she, in my opinion, is overvaluing her explanation.

[EFHW]

I had a completely uneventful night. So if anyone targeted MiX with something that would show up, that would be evidence against the bus driver theory.

[EFHW]

cayvie: Can you confirm that your kill would show up flavored as "shot and killed"?

EFHW: What is your read on cayvie?

I have OMGUS toward cayvie. I'm frustrated because I don't know what happened, and she, in my opinion, is overvaluing her explanation.

If I get really creative, I can imagine she shot MiX and is using this story to lynch me!

[WestCoastDidds]

I understand the EFHW votes and the Galz votes....but, DatSwan, why e?

Cayvie is in my town bucket now.... so I’m not buying that she is setting up a town EFHW.

[shraeye]

because presumably if a redirector gave the order "redirect cayvie to MiX", then *all* my actions would target MiX. which didn't happen.

That does make your specific bus driver theory much more likely

Did anyone else target EFHW/MiX? Could potentially confirm cayvie's claim

I didn't. 

[mail-mi]

I need to reread EFHW for myself. I think this cayvie claim is NAI.

[shraeye]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Galz, why did you vote EFHW here?

[shraeye]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Galz, why did you vote EFHW here?

[shraeye]

Double post for emphasis.

[WestCoastDidds]

Double post for emphasis.

Saying it twice makes it better. In the words of my students “so, do you like like him?”

[cayvie]

I need to reread EFHW for myself. I think this cayvie claim is NAI.

NAI for EFHW or NAI for me?

[mail-mi]

I need to reread EFHW for myself. I think this cayvie claim is NAI.

NAI for EFHW or NAI for me?

Both. Scum busdriver could have done it with her, town redirector could have changed your targets, could have been a town busdriver. It's a bunch of WIFOM. I'm voting for her cause of my read from yesterday but i still need to reread.

[Galzria]

Reread Galzria myself, and I can see the votes.

Scummary to get into the game D1. Overreacting to votes against him.

I can sheep faust

Vote: Galzria

I've over-reacted to votes against me? That's an interesting take.

[Galzria]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Galz, why did you vote EFHW here?

Mmm, let's call it a vibe. I mean, I suppose vibes can be wrong. I need to re-map what's been claimed so far.

[Galzria]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Galz, why did you vote EFHW here?

Mmm, let's call it a vibe. I mean, I suppose vibes can be wrong. I need to re-map what's been claimed so far.

[Swowl]

I understand the EFHW votes and the Galz votes....but, DatSwan, why e?

Cayvie is in my town bucket now.... so I’m not buying that she is setting up a town EFHW.

I'll get back to this down the road a bit. I have no info or anything like that.

[shraeye]

Double post for emphasis.

Saying it twice makes it better. In the words of my students “so, do you like like him?”

I think they've all got communication figured out, As all around!

[shraeye]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Galz, why did you vote EFHW here?

Mmm, let's call it a vibe. I mean, I suppose vibes can be wrong. I need to re-map what's been claimed so far.

It does not match what I recall from your day1 stances, and came in unexplained.  What's giving you that vibe?  VCA? reread? If you have a case, it does not seem like you're trying very hard to push it.

[skip wooznum]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

yo

[skip wooznum]

vote: efhw on the strength of cayvie's claim. Assuming she somehow knows that not all her actions targeted mix, which is definitely plausible.

[skip wooznum]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

[Uncleeurope]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.2:

EFHW (5): Galzria, mail-mi, cayvie, uncle, skip
Galzria (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
2.7 (1): DatSwan

Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, WCD, shraeye

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[cayvie]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

that would be an unlikely but not technically impossible result, given the fact that we've already had a player join the game day 2!

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

[skip wooznum]

Except there is not a chance in this world that you were ever going to be the replacement lynch there.

Oh I very strongly disagree with that sentiment, although I appreciate it nonetheless. Faust is in a different time zone than I am, and Faust often gets what he wants. I’m not at all convinced I wouldn’t have been the lynch choice there - and honestly, it wasn’t worth the risk.

Further to that point:

If I at all shared your opinion there, then there would’ve been no reason for me to put myself into the scrutiny that hammering there does.

Now, there’s an infinite amount of WIFOM there from me making that argument - but if you honestly believe what you yourself have stated then you must equally acknowledge the validity of my statement above.

You could be scumbuddies with efhw.

[Swowl]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

that would be an unlikely but not technically impossible result, given the fact that we've already had a player join the game day 2!

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

No offense to Space, but I think we should err on the side of caution in regards to "IC". This game is NOT bastard, so I assume at the time that Space entered the game they were what was claimed by the MOD. However, we have had 1 (or 2, I can't remember how many) different people say that their roles hint at alignment switching being a thing.
Just saying - the concept of an IC is you can trust them 100% they are confirmed to be exactly what they are. So, unless we are gonna be getting daily updates from Ash in the thread re-confirming their identity each day (probably not happening)... then they are not really IC.

To further on that... if by chance Space is aware of alignment switching effects on their end, that would complicate things to the max.

Def am NOTTTTT making any sort of a case on Space. Just pointing out the IC thing is what I wanted to get across.

[Swowl]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

that would be an unlikely but not technically impossible result, given the fact that we've already had a player join the game day 2!

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

I believe Eddie was making a joke at the vote, unvote, re vote.

[Swowl]

vote: Efoo (EFHW)

Galz, why did you vote EFHW here?

Mmm, let's call it a vibe. I mean, I suppose vibes can be wrong. I need to re-map what's been claimed so far.

It does not match what I recall from your day1 stances, and came in unexplained.  What's giving you that vibe?  VCA? reread? If you have a case, it does not seem like you're trying very hard to push it.

Whats more impressive is no one is trying crazy hard to push it and EFHW is at L2

[WestCoastDidds]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

Ha!

[shraeye]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

that would be an unlikely but not technically impossible result, given the fact that we've already had a player join the game day 2!

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

No offense to Space, but I think we should err on the side of caution in regards to "IC". This game is NOT bastard, so I assume at the time that Space entered the game they were what was claimed by the MOD. However, we have had 1 (or 2, I can't remember how many) different people say that their roles hint at alignment switching being a thing.
Just saying - the concept of an IC is you can trust them 100% they are confirmed to be exactly what they are. So, unless we are gonna be getting daily updates from Ash in the thread re-confirming their identity each day (probably not happening)... then they are not really IC.

To further on that... if by chance Space is aware of alignment switching effects on their end, that would complicate things to the max.

Def am NOTTTTT making any sort of a case on Space. Just pointing out the IC thing is what I wanted to get across.

You for real, boo?

[mail-mi]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

that would be an unlikely but not technically impossible result, given the fact that we've already had a player join the game day 2!

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

No offense to Space, but I think we should err on the side of caution in regards to "IC". This game is NOT bastard, so I assume at the time that Space entered the game they were what was claimed by the MOD. However, we have had 1 (or 2, I can't remember how many) different people say that their roles hint at alignment switching being a thing.
Just saying - the concept of an IC is you can trust them 100% they are confirmed to be exactly what they are. So, unless we are gonna be getting daily updates from Ash in the thread re-confirming their identity each day (probably not happening)... then they are not really IC.

To further on that... if by chance Space is aware of alignment switching effects on their end, that would complicate things to the max.

Def am NOTTTTT making any sort of a case on Space. Just pointing out the IC thing is what I wanted to get across.

^^this is a good point. Not sure if the Mod will let us know if space changes alignments. I guess we can ask.

If a mod-confirmed town-aligned person changes alignments, will we be informed?

[Swowl]

unvote actually, as another possibility is occurring to me.

I'm trying to figure out how best to present it, or if to present it at all.

But it's unlikely anyway so

vote: efhw after all

I guess MIX didn’t die after all.

that would be an unlikely but not technically impossible result, given the fact that we've already had a player join the game day 2!

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

No offense to Space, but I think we should err on the side of caution in regards to "IC". This game is NOT bastard, so I assume at the time that Space entered the game they were what was claimed by the MOD. However, we have had 1 (or 2, I can't remember how many) different people say that their roles hint at alignment switching being a thing.
Just saying - the concept of an IC is you can trust them 100% they are confirmed to be exactly what they are. So, unless we are gonna be getting daily updates from Ash in the thread re-confirming their identity each day (probably not happening)... then they are not really IC.

To further on that... if by chance Space is aware of alignment switching effects on their end, that would complicate things to the max.

Def am NOTTTTT making any sort of a case on Space. Just pointing out the IC thing is what I wanted to get across.

You for real, boo?

do you disagree that this is not a valid point?

[faust]

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

And what would you be needing IC thoughts for?

[faust]

Whats more impressive is no one is trying crazy hard to push it and EFHW is at L2

Sound like you're jealous...

[Swowl]

Whats more impressive is no one is trying crazy hard to push it and EFHW is at L2

Sound like you're jealous...

I think you are mistaken jealousy for curiosity on this one.

[2.71828.....]

Whats more impressive is no one is trying crazy hard to push it and EFHW is at L2

Sound like you're jealous...

I think you are mistaken jealousy for curiosity on this one.

What is curious about it?

Does it make EFHW more or less likely scum in your opinion?

[ashersky]

If a mod-confirmed town-aligned person changes alignments, will we be informed?

Theoretical questions regarding a closed setup result in an impossible situation.  Any answer can be construed to confirm or deny the existence of whatever hypothetical is being questioned.  As such, instead of an answer, I will leave you with a general rule:

If the game is not categorized as "BM," you can trust the mod.

[2.71828.....]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

It wasn’t a bad hammer. It was 5 hours to deadline, with talk of a shift towards me. I hammered at 2:00am my time, deadline was at 7:00am. I had to sleep. I’ve seen more wagons than I can recount switch in the final 5 hours. I wasn’t willing to take that chance. As there was an infinitely better chance of Pubby flipping scum than me, there was absolutely no second thought to that hammer.

This is what I am referring to as an overreaction.

The urgency to defend your hammer here is a bit much. It's like you have to make sure everyone knows that what you did is a townie thing.

"Nothing scummy to see here, carry on..."

[Swowl]

Whats more impressive is no one is trying crazy hard to push it and EFHW is at L2

Sound like you're jealous...

I think you are mistaken jealousy for curiosity on this one.

What is curious about it?

Does it make EFHW more or less likely scum in your opinion?

evidently my sarcasm is going under noted. apologies as needed I guess.
1) I was bantering with faust. There is nothing curious about it, I was talking about my state of mind.
2) regarding EFHW... I don't know. Less I think. If we are under the assumption that skum directed the misdirect of Cayvie's kill then they chose mix. Given Day 1 info, mix would be a good choice if the idea was to iso the wagons to let's say... the other potential wagons on the day. Outside of that, there isn't really a reason for skum to do it right? I mean mix derailed at a crucial time and they could of just left them alive and painted them up. But, in this scenario, they chose to move the shot to MiX. So who would they hope to set up? Probably EFHW and a back up of galz as he popped up on radar a shit ton of times from people. and look at that... its EFHW and Galz. I accept the reach of all of that, so the merit I am putting into it at this point is smallish.
This is my hold up. The first person that gives me shit about "mathing it out like skum" is getting tunneled for as long as I am in the game. It is simply the only way to think about this. But ok here - Assume you are skum and you have a bus driver/RD/whatever... cayvie claims vig shot... you are bus driver and get lucky on the target? k maybe. As I stated before, I think more likely RD knowing who to target and controlling where to put it. Either way... you have to move the action. So you are skum, so assume cayvie is town. So when cayvie only voted for the wagons of mix and pubby and uncle you have to assume she actually had some merit in believing they were skum. So when she shoots, those are good targets. So you choose... like a town *not one of those $%#$ing dudes"right? except that is not what happened. MiX got "shot and killed". So if cayvie has confirmed that they get the "shot" ping on their shots, and cayvie is assumed town in this scenario then... skum just what? decided to pick a target that may of very well been the target that cayvie chose anyways?

That was rambling - I have been wanting to get these points out:

1) It is in fact probably more likely that there is a bus driver in regards to an RD. But it has nothing to do with skum controlling the shot. If skum controlled the shot it is far more likely imo that it is a RD. Overall, still bus driver is ultimately more likely because it could just be a random town switch (ofc on top of the option of skum having BD as well). I do not like the way that people have presented the cases thus far without taking that merit into respect.

2) Cayvie said the shot landed, EFHW did not get a notification. So either Cayvie is lying, EFHW is lying, or it was switched.... or I guess they are both lying. Simple as that.
If it was switched = Skum either is RD and picks claimed vig and puts it on someone they know is not skum (MiX) or they are bus driver and pick two high wagon individuals to switch the results on (EFHW/MiX).
If Cayvie is lying = they just shot mix. Then claimed efhw to bring on the hate and etc etc. I am not a huge fan of this one, but it is on the table.
EFHW is lying = yadda yadda skum has the switch ability and EFHW would know so it was planned. OK, roughly the same fan of that as the cayvie case.
Both are lying = oddly I find this more likely than any singular of them being skum.



TLDR; I think EFHW is Town. I do not think that Skum would of switched the result off of EFHW (whether RD or BD) and then it all plays out the way that it has, if EFHW was in on that decision.

[skip wooznum]

Bus driving generally redirects all night actions, not just nks. I think cayvie's intent with this post

i think if there's a scum busdriver, they're likely to switch town and scum. and MiX was town.

is that standard practice (ignoring game specific variables) is for scum bus drivers to switch a townie with a scummie because it creates maximum chaos with cops, trackers, and the like, who will get incriminating results on townies and clearing results on scum. There is no compelling reason to think scum would act differently this game. You seem to be assuming that scum's entire goal for busdriving was to defend against a 1-shot 25% accurate vig that might not shoot at all due to a chance she would kill herself.

[skip wooznum]

"You" in the above post refers to swan.

[skip wooznum]

As for the possibility of a town bus driver being responsible for the switching, I'm totally discounting that because:
1a) town bus drivers are anti-town and therefore probably aren't in the setup,
1b) town bus drivers are anti-town and therefore probably wouldn't use their power,
and by far most importantly
2) a town bus driver responsible for the switch would claim before we actually lynch someone, so there's nothing to worry about.

I trust cayvie, I believe her claim, so I'm voting efhw.

[WestCoastDidds]

I appreciate Swan thinking out loud. Seeing his thought process helps, and I see that he’s trying to think
through the EFHW choice.  I think it’s too much work for him to be buddies with EFHW and  if he’s scum, it’s  a weird move. So, I’ve got Swan in my town bucket, although I still have no idea why he is voting for e.

But I equally appreciate Skip. In this case, the last sentence is clarifying for me...

I trust Cayvie and I believe her claim.

So, I am leaning toward voting for EFHW but don’t want to put her a L-1 so I’ll hold off.

[EFHW]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

yo

Can we verify that you two are talking about the same message? I think someone else mentioned getting a message, too. I'll check.

[EFHW]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

This was the other reference to a message. Did you get a response, Eddie?

[Uncleeurope]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

This was the other reference to a message. Did you get a response, Eddie?

Indeed, there was a slight hiccup, but I can confirm that the name attached to my message was truthful.

I assumed that would be the case, but I wanted to make sure. The content of the message was too... odd, for me to take it at face value.

[faust]

Given Day 1 info, mix would be a good choice if the idea was to iso the wagons to let's say... the other potential wagons on the day. Outside of that, there isn't really a reason for skum to do it right? I mean mix derailed at a crucial time and they could of just left them alive and painted them up. But, in this scenario, they chose to move the shot to MiX. So who would they hope to set up? Probably EFHW and a back up of galz as he popped up on radar a shit ton of times from people. and look at that... its EFHW and Galz. I accept the reach of all of that, so the merit I am putting into it at this point is smallish.

If scum used a Bus Driver/Deflector/whatever, then I strongly doubt it was with cayvie's role in mind. The main upside of of redirection is usually screwig with investigative results.

[skip wooznum]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

yo

Can we verify that you two are talking about the same message?

We're talking about the same message (95% sure)

[skip wooznum]

Given Day 1 info, mix would be a good choice if the idea was to iso the wagons to let's say... the other potential wagons on the day. Outside of that, there isn't really a reason for skum to do it right? I mean mix derailed at a crucial time and they could of just left them alive and painted them up. But, in this scenario, they chose to move the shot to MiX. So who would they hope to set up? Probably EFHW and a back up of galz as he popped up on radar a shit ton of times from people. and look at that... its EFHW and Galz. I accept the reach of all of that, so the merit I am putting into it at this point is smallish.

If scum used a Bus Driver/Deflector/whatever, then I strongly doubt it was with cayvie's role in mind. The main upside of of redirection is usually screwig with investigative results.

So you agree one of cayvie/efhw is very likely scum?

[faust]

Given Day 1 info, mix would be a good choice if the idea was to iso the wagons to let's say... the other potential wagons on the day. Outside of that, there isn't really a reason for skum to do it right? I mean mix derailed at a crucial time and they could of just left them alive and painted them up. But, in this scenario, they chose to move the shot to MiX. So who would they hope to set up? Probably EFHW and a back up of galz as he popped up on radar a shit ton of times from people. and look at that... its EFHW and Galz. I accept the reach of all of that, so the merit I am putting into it at this point is smallish.

If scum used a Bus Driver/Deflector/whatever, then I strongly doubt it was with cayvie's role in mind. The main upside of of redirection is usually screwig with investigative results.

So you agree one of cayvie/efhw is very likely scum?

It is very much possible, yes.

[shraeye]

I appreciate Swan thinking out loud. Seeing his thought process helps, and I see that he’s trying to think
through the EFHW choice.  I think it’s too much work for him to be buddies with EFHW and  if he’s scum, it’s  a weird move.

IS it??

[shraeye]

I'm not voting for EFHW right now.  The Galz business is 8x more exciting than this.
vote: Galzria

And Didds too; I'd vote Didds

[shraeye]

I trust Cayvie and I believe her claim.

I believe cayvie's claim too; but that doesn't mean her analysis is correct.  You think that EFHW must be scum because cayvie tried to shoot her??

[cayvie]

Some other notes: I typically give townpoints to bad hammers. But that was a really bad hammer. I didn’t like it, it made me unhappy.

Another note, if you talked to me last night, include the last word of the message in your next post.

It would make me happy to confirm who gave it to me.

If anyone even messaged me. Because maybe it didn’t happen,

This was the other reference to a message. Did you get a response, Eddie?

Indeed, there was a slight hiccup, but I can confirm that the name attached to my message was truthful.

I assumed that would be the case, but I wanted to make sure. The content of the message was too... odd, for me to take it at face value.

wait, eddie, did you actually get my message? i did send a message last night, and i did include the last word of that message in the post after yours, but... you weren't my original target. so if you're referring to me, then that means that multiple actions of mine went to people i didn't choose.

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, I got your message, haha.

[Uncleeurope]

I'm not voting for EFHW right now.  The Galz business is 8x more exciting than this.
vote: Galzria

And Didds too; I'd vote Didds

I also could vote Didds. Probably for a different reason than yours, but still.

[Uncleeurope]

@Cayvie, who was your original target, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Uncleeurope]

I wonder if everyone has two powers, and there are two scum redirectors, one that does the first power and one that does the second power. They both targeted cayvie because they wanted to guarantee that they would intercept the shot.

They sent the other power at someone else just to make sure that they caused max chaos.

Just a working theory.

[Uncleeurope]

And I am 100% not claiming to have two powers.

 

[WestCoastDidds]

I appreciate Swan thinking out loud. Seeing his thought process helps, and I see that he’s trying to think
through the EFHW choice.  I think it’s too much work for him to be buddies with EFHW and  if he’s scum, it’s  a weird move.

IS it??

I think so! It’s a to. Of work to paint EFHW as town. She’s at L-2, if she gets axed and is scum, he looks bad. But it’s not so persuasive that people are jumping off of her wagon, so maybe it’s nothing. Mostly I like that Swan thinks out loud instead of doing cryptic Shraeye short posts.

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm not voting for EFHW right now.  The Galz business is 8x more exciting than this.
vote: Galzria

And Didds too; I'd vote Didds

I also could vote Didds. Probably for a different reason than yours, but still.

Humph! I thought we had a detente.

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm not voting for EFHW right now.  The Galz business is 8x more exciting than this.
vote: Galzria

And Didds too; I'd vote Didds

Quit it, Shraeye. I don’t you to be scum!  Believing and trusting cayvie is starting to mean less if her actions are going cattywampus. So, I think I’ll actually vote now.

Vote: Galz

[cayvie]

@Cayvie, who was your original target, if you don’t mind me asking?

it was mail-mi.

unvote

[cayvie]

I wonder if everyone has two powers, and there are two scum redirectors, one that does the first power and one that does the second power. They both targeted cayvie because they wanted to guarantee that they would intercept the shot.

They sent the other power at someone else just to make sure that they caused max chaos.

Just a working theory.

i wonder if there's a "target randomizer" power, that they just sent at me and randomized *all* my targets.

[mail-mi]

@Cayvie, who was your original target, if you don’t mind me asking?

it was mail-mi.

unvote

For your message? I didn't get anything, so looks like it was redirected.

I did get something else laast night, though, but I'm not going to share what it is, I think it would be better to keep it a secret for now

[faust]

In the spirit of everyone else's posts I want to make clear that I don't trust cayvie.

[faust]

Though the latest revelations make her somewhat townier.

[skip wooznum]

unvote

[skip wooznum]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

yo

Can we verify that you two are talking about the same message?

We're talking about the same message (95% sure)

(Now 70% sure)

[SpaceAnemone]

i think it is a less than 1% chance that i was redirected. a bus driver is far more likely.

b: it is the second. 50% to hit, then 50% to kill. and i guess i find out if i hit but not necessarily if i killed (didn't know that before last night)

I like seeing the confidences attached to your beliefs, but i find 1% awfully low for an Ash game where the chances of any given PR's function coinciding commpletely with standard named Mafia roles is surely low. Let's say <20%, since I did just say confidences are good.

I don't think a role that takes all actions targeting one player and channels them instead onto another player is at all unlikely, so I find the 1% assertion iffy.

Anyway, I think the conversation has to some extent moved past the point addressed here because Cayvie has now revealed that her other action was also retargeted, albeit to a person other than MiX. However, I think we still need to work at being open-minded in our role reasoning in order to piece things together.

[SpaceAnemone]

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

Yep :-)

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

And what would you be needing IC thoughts for?

To be fair, I was being a little quiet.

How many others haven't played with Cayvie before? I think both Cayvie and Skip are new for me. (Hi!)

[cayvie]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

yo

Can we verify that you two are talking about the same message?

We're talking about the same message (95% sure)

(Now 70% sure)

did your message mention signatures?

[EFHW]

Town points to cayvie for unvoting. Is that the opposite of OMGUS? OMGUG: Oh my God, you're great?

[cayvie]

Town points to cayvie for unvoting. Is that the opposite of OMGUS? OMGUG: Oh my God, you're great?

town points for that? haha, i mean what was i supposed to do, i got information that my premises were flawed, i gotta at least reconsider my conclusions

[skip wooznum]

(Hi!)

(Hi! I made a quick introduction in the beginning of the game.)

[skip wooznum]

Also I received an interesting message last night and I'm curious if anyone wants to claim to have sent it

yo

Can we verify that you two are talking about the same message?

We're talking about the same message (95% sure)

(Now 70% sure)

did your message mention signatures?

Nope. (2%)

[skip wooznum]

@Cayvie, who was your original target, if you don’t mind me asking?

it was mail-mi.

unvote

For your message? I didn't get anything, so looks like it was redirected.

I did get something else laast night, though, but I'm not going to share what it is, I think it would be better to keep it a secret for now

Was the thing you got an education?

[cayvie]

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

Yep :-)

speaking of, i'm curious if our IC has any thoughts?

And what would you be needing IC thoughts for?

To be fair, I was being a little quiet.

How many others haven't played with Cayvie before? I think both Cayvie and Skip are new for me. (Hi!)

i think this is my first game with you, skip, & swan! nice to meet you too. i played here a long time ago, and now i am back, i guess!

also this game is making it clear to me that redirecting roles clearly do not have universally accepted names and functions.

PPE: okay, looks like my message was not from skip.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.3:

EFHW (3): Galzria, mail-mi, uncle
Galzria (5): faust, EFHW, 2.7, shraeye, WCD
2.7 (1): DatSwan

Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, cayvie, skip

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[mail-mi]

@Cayvie, who was your original target, if you don’t mind me asking?

it was mail-mi.

unvote

For your message? I didn't get anything, so looks like it was redirected.

I did get something else laast night, though, but I'm not going to share what it is, I think it would be better to keep it a secret for now

Was the thing you got an education?

Yes.

[skip wooznum]

@Cayvie, who was your original target, if you don’t mind me asking?

it was mail-mi.

unvote

For your message? I didn't get anything, so looks like it was redirected.

I did get something else laast night, though, but I'm not going to share what it is, I think it would be better to keep it a secret for now

Was the thing you got an education?

Yes.

yo

[skip wooznum]

So to sum up the current claims:

I target cayvie but end up on mail-mi.
cayvie targets mail-mi but ends up on eddie.
cayvie targets efhw but ends up on MiX.

Fun.

[faust]

So to sum up the current claims:

I target cayvie but end up on mail-mi.
cayvie targets mail-mi but ends up on eddie.
cayvie targets efhw but ends up on MiX.

Fun.

I think that it's unlikely that we have something redirecting all powers. The common link here would be cayvie, so it seems like something happened to her. Also, it might be relevant that skip's ultimate target ended up being one of cayvie's targets.

[skip wooznum]

So to sum up the current claims:

I target cayvie but end up on mail-mi.
cayvie targets mail-mi but ends up on eddie.
cayvie targets efhw but ends up on MiX.

Fun.

I think that it's unlikely that we have something redirecting all powers. The common link here would be cayvie, so it seems like something happened to her. Also, it might be relevant that skip's ultimate target ended up being one of cayvie's targets.

Sounds good.
There's also a message cayvie has claimed to have recieved that nobody has claimed to have sent. That could also have been a redirection, although it might not fit so neatly into your theory.

[Swowl]

So to sum up the current claims:

I target cayvie but end up on mail-mi.
cayvie targets mail-mi but ends up on eddie.
cayvie targets efhw but ends up on MiX.

Fun.

I have been staring at this for like 30 effing minutes and I am no where.

Cayvie - There is a split in actions off of Cayvie. EFHW went to MiX, and MailMi went to Eddie. What could possibly cause that? If someone re-directs an a player it is all of their actions right? same with a bus driver swap yeah? And I have done some digging but it looks like there used to be a role referred to as a Deflector, but that seems to be all uses of power as well.

Skip - Interacts with Cayvie. Targets her with whatever it is, but instead it goes to MailMi. So that is so far all of Cayvies actions just being fucked with.

MailMi - Confirms "education" from Skip, which would at least lean us towards truth. As in, skip targeted Cayvie with an education, but MailMi Got it instead.

Eddie - Confirming with the last word thing that Cayvie ended up sending them the message.


So from start to finish - I gotta say I am just befuzzled on Cayvie here. like to the extent they almost have to be town imo. IDK what else to think. They claim first on like effing everything and it all gets backed up. So either they are all skum, or cayvie is town right? someone tell me why that doesn't make sense please. Real ask.
Then Skip, the specifics of education from MailMi would insist that that is something that Skip did actually intend to do. As MailMi and Cayvie are both alive, and MailMi was the one with the message... we can deduce that it is not a kill action and it is not what messed with cayvie. The obv being unless Mailmi and Skip are both skum, but lets take it down from there for now.
And then Eddie asking for confirmation and getting it from cayvie. Same potential both skum thing, but dial that down again.
And EFHW seems to be in the middle. Which now that everything is out I stand by even more, I do not see any skum points to be assigned to her for these actions. Obviously, it is either theater put on by skum or it is messed with.

Someone with more brain power wanna poke into that a little please? a) lies, or b) some role I have never seen before... I got nothing I can go on here.

PPE2

[Swowl]

So to sum up the current claims:

I target cayvie but end up on mail-mi.
cayvie targets mail-mi but ends up on eddie.
cayvie targets efhw but ends up on MiX.

Fun.

I think that it's unlikely that we have something redirecting all powers. The common link here would be cayvie, so it seems like something happened to her. Also, it might be relevant that skip's ultimate target ended up being one of cayvie's targets.

Sounds good.
There's also a message cayvie has claimed to have recieved that nobody has claimed to have sent. That could also have been a redirection, although it might not fit so neatly into your theory.

cayvie got the message from Eddie right? dude screw this crap I need like a damn whiteboard or something.

[Swowl]

So to sum up the current claims:

I target cayvie but end up on mail-mi.
cayvie targets mail-mi but ends up on eddie.
cayvie targets efhw but ends up on MiX.

Fun.

I think that it's unlikely that we have something redirecting all powers. The common link here would be cayvie, so it seems like something happened to her. Also, it might be relevant that skip's ultimate target ended up being one of cayvie's targets.

Sounds good.
There's also a message cayvie has claimed to have recieved that nobody has claimed to have sent. That could also have been a redirection, although it might not fit so neatly into your theory.

cayvie got the message from Eddie right? dude screw this crap I need like a damn whiteboard or something.

wait no. right. Cayvie sent message and ended up on Eddie. Did Cayvie also get a message?

[cayvie]

I tried to send a message to mail-mi, but eddie got it.
Skip tried to send a message to me, but mail-mi got it.
Also I got a message that nobody has claimed.

[cayvie]

I tried to send a message to mail-mi, but eddie got it.
Skip tried to send a message to me, but mail-mi got it.
Also I got a message that nobody has claimed.

Also I tried to send a bullet to EFHW, but MiX got it.

[faust]

So either they are all skum, or cayvie is town right?

Can you expand on why you think this follows?

[faust]

I tried to send a message to mail-mi, but eddie got it.
Skip tried to send a message to me, but mail-mi got it.
Also I got a message that nobody has claimed.

What if... all actions, instead of targeting the intended target, targeted whoever the target was targeting?

[cayvie]

I tried to send a message to mail-mi, but eddie got it.
Skip tried to send a message to me, but mail-mi got it.
Also I got a message that nobody has claimed.

What if... all actions, instead of targeting the intended target, targeted whoever the target was targeting?

I mean, mail-mi, did you try to target eddie?
EFHW, did you try to target MiX?
And perhaps someone tried to send a message to skip and it wound up coming to me?

I really suspect, though, that I was targeted by some chaos beam or something that made everything that touched me go awry

[Swowl]

So either they are all skum, or cayvie is town right?

Can you expand on why you think this follows?

again sarcasm ish. Although the point could stand. Either they are all in it together, or at least pairs of target and target able, or cayvie is town... I am basing the cayvie is town thing not just on the actions listed but how cayvie came out with them. I don't see how they would claim what they have in the order that they claimed the things and they are skum if there is not not more skum in that group. so I guess, "all of them are skum" is an exaggeration. But there would need to be more than just 1 for this to all make sense if skum is in there right?

[Swowl]

I tried to send a message to mail-mi, but eddie got it.
Skip tried to send a message to me, but mail-mi got it.
Also I got a message that nobody has claimed.

What if... all actions, instead of targeting the intended target, targeted whoever the target was targeting?

does that add up?

[Swowl]

would that insinuate... skip? but then there was only one death. if cayvie targeted both and skip targeted cayvie then shouldn't both of EFHw and MailMi be dead? or am I missing somehting?

[Swowl]

bc the alternative is like there is that role PLUSSSS cayvie had multiple roles re directed right? idk i am going to bed but I can't seem to connect those dots off the top of my head.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, not sure how all these actions are lining up.

In the meantime, still like my Galzria vote

[skip wooznum]

There's still something bothering me.
@cayvie, when you made this post

Is there a reason you think it is so unlikely you were not targeted by a re director? I could be missing something, but I feel as if you would of been a prime target for a skum RD after you claimed what you did.

yes, there is a reason. i took more than one targeted action last night.

what did you mean? Why would the fact that you took multiple targeted actions last night preclude the possibility of you being targeted by a redirector? At the time,  I thought you meant that you knew your other action had hit its intended target, and therefore you must not have been redirected, but later it became clear that your intended target was mail-mi and you actually hit eddie. So if you had no verification that you hit your intended target, how'd you know you weren't redirected?

[shraeye]

Hmmmmm, so.  Message sending.  Like, what's the point?

vote: skip

[cayvie]

There's still something bothering me.
@cayvie, when you made this post

Is there a reason you think it is so unlikely you were not targeted by a re director? I could be missing something, but I feel as if you would of been a prime target for a skum RD after you claimed what you did.

yes, there is a reason. i took more than one targeted action last night.

what did you mean? Why would the fact that you took multiple targeted actions last night preclude the possibility of you being targeted by a redirector? At the time,  I thought you meant that you knew your other action had hit its intended target, and therefore you must not have been redirected, but later it became clear that your intended target was mail-mi and you actually hit eddie. So if you had no verification that you hit your intended target, how'd you know you weren't redirected?

i took more than two actions, skip.

[skip wooznum]

So then, how could you suspect this?

I really suspect, though, that I was targeted by some chaos beam or something that made everything that touched me go awry

[cayvie]

So then, how could you suspect this?

I really suspect, though, that I was targeted by some chaos beam or something that made everything that touched me go awry

vote: skip wooznum

because that post was made much later in the day, with far more information? initially, if you'll recall, i simply thought there was a bus driver.

[skip wooznum]

So then, how could you suspect this?

I really suspect, though, that I was targeted by some chaos beam or something that made everything that touched me go awry

vote: skip wooznum

because that post was made much later in the day, with far more information? initially, if you'll recall, i simply thought there was a bus driver.

Yes I know the post was made later in the day with more information and you initially thought there was a bus driver.

My point is that whatever evidence you had for believing at the beginning of the day that there was only a 1% chance you were redirected (the implication is some other action(s) that you know hit its target) presumably didn't vanish. And at the beginning of the day it was strong enough evidence for you to be 99% confident. So how does all this new information explain how you could have been targeted with a chaos beam, as you say,  and yet still hit your other target(s)?

I'm sorry if I framed your posts in a way that made it unclear that much time had elapsed between them. That's not what I was trying to do.

[cayvie]

So then, how could you suspect this?

I really suspect, though, that I was targeted by some chaos beam or something that made everything that touched me go awry

vote: skip wooznum

because that post was made much later in the day, with far more information? initially, if you'll recall, i simply thought there was a bus driver.

Yes I know the post was made later in the day with more information and you initially thought there was a bus driver.

My point is that whatever evidence you had for believing at the beginning of the day that there was only a 1% chance you were redirected (the implication is some other action(s) that you know hit its target) presumably didn't vanish. And at the beginning of the day it was strong enough evidence for you to be 99% confident. So how does all this new information explain how you could have been targeted with a chaos beam, as you say,  and yet still hit your other target(s)?

I'm sorry if I framed your posts in a way that made it unclear that much time had elapsed between them. That's not what I was trying to do.

i didn't know it didn't hit my other targets; i just knew i took an action that didn't hit MiX.

[skip wooznum]

Oh

[mail-mi]

I tried to send a message to mail-mi, but eddie got it.
Skip tried to send a message to me, but mail-mi got it.
Also I got a message that nobody has claimed.

What if... all actions, instead of targeting the intended target, targeted whoever the target was targeting?

I mean, mail-mi, did you try to target eddie?
EFHW, did you try to target MiX?
And perhaps someone tried to send a message to skip and it wound up coming to me?

I really suspect, though, that I was targeted by some chaos beam or something that made everything that touched me go awry

I am not going to claim what I did last night, other than receive an education.

[Uncleeurope]

I am curious about Cayvie.

Knowing that her actions had to have been sent to two separate people is odd.

Plus why would she use the last word of the message she thought she sent to mail me in response to me.

Also, guys, just because you were on EFHW for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that right reasons don’t exist.

[mail-mi]

I am curious about Cayvie.

Knowing that her actions had to have been sent to two separate people is odd.

Plus why would she use the last word of the message she thought she sent to mail me in response to me.

Also, guys, just because you were on EFHW for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that right reasons don’t exist.

I am curious about this as well. Apparently cayvie has more than 2 powers, one of which is a killing role, and she somehow knows what some of her targets are. I'm thinking it's not unlikely that she's a SK. I'm not confident in that and it's not something to be looking out for now, but something to think about.

[EFHW]

I am curious about Cayvie.

Knowing that her actions had to have been sent to two separate people is odd.

Plus why would she use the last word of the message she thought she sent to mail me in response to me.

Also, guys, just because you were on EFHW for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that right reasons don’t exist.

I was kind of wondering about that, too (the response to your post, not the bit about am I still scummy). What are you suggesting?

[faust]

Request prod on Galzria

As usual.

[Galzria]

Request prod on Galzria

As usual.

post

[cayvie]

I am curious about Cayvie.

Knowing that her actions had to have been sent to two separate people is odd.

Plus why would she use the last word of the message she thought she sent to mail me in response to me.

Also, guys, just because you were on EFHW for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that right reasons don’t exist.

Well, yep, my role is odd.

I mean why wouldn't I answer your call for the last word in the message? Either you're talking about some other message and I give no information away, or you're talking about my message and we find out that the message found the wrong target. I see no downside.

[Galzria]

Unvote

Working on this.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.4:

EFHW (2): mail-mi, uncle
Galzria (4): faust, EFHW, 2.7, WCD
2.7 (1): DatSwan
skip (2): shraeye, cayvie

Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, skip, Galzria

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[EFHW]

I am curious about Cayvie.

Knowing that her actions had to have been sent to two separate people is odd.

Plus why would she use the last word of the message she thought she sent to mail me in response to me.

Also, guys, just because you were on EFHW for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that right reasons don’t exist.

Well, yep, my role is odd.

I mean why wouldn't I answer your call for the last word in the message? Either you're talking about some other message and I give no information away, or you're talking about my message and we find out that the message found the wrong target. I see no downside.

Didn't it make you start to question the bus driver theory when the wrong person asked?

[Galzria]

Apologies, Swan distracted me with Zoom calls with our students.

[cayvie]

I am curious about Cayvie.

Knowing that her actions had to have been sent to two separate people is odd.

Plus why would she use the last word of the message she thought she sent to mail me in response to me.

Also, guys, just because you were on EFHW for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that right reasons don’t exist.

Well, yep, my role is odd.

I mean why wouldn't I answer your call for the last word in the message? Either you're talking about some other message and I give no information away, or you're talking about my message and we find out that the message found the wrong target. I see no downside.

Didn't it make you start to question the bus driver theory when the wrong person asked?

Well, a little, but I had no idea how many messages were floating around out there last night, so I didn't draw any conclusions.

[Galzria]

Apologies, Swan distracted me with Zoom calls with our students.

To be more clear - this event slowed me down. It didn't stop me for the day.

[faust]

Hmmmmm, so.  Message sending.  Like, what's the point?

vote: skip

You really sent a message with that vote.

[Galzria]

Here's a big, long, possibly non-useful, IIoA post that the thread (doesn't?) need (more to follow this afternoon/tonight):

Votes: Day 1

• e! – Cayvie (367), Pubby (502)
• MiX***Town*** – Pubby (58), Swan (85), LaLight (91), Pubby (108), faust (122), UncleEurope (155), e! (168), Cayvie (201), Galzria (276), Cayvie (278), Swan (305), Cayvie (307), EFHW (357), Pubby (470), EFHW (481)
• LaLight***Town*** – Cayvie (61), WCD (185), UncleEurope (230), MiX (319), EFHW (421), Pubby (487)
• WCD – Cayvie (235), EFHW (349), Pubby (479)
• Cayvie – LaLight (59), UncleEurope (140), MiX (246), Swan (299), Pubby (324), LaLight (407), EFHW (418), Mail-Mi (446), Pubby (478)
• Galzria – Cayvie (194), MiX (275), Pubby (514)
• Faust – WCD (118), Mail-Mi (210), MiX (296), EFHW (346), Mail-Mi (441), EFHW (498), Galzria (500)
• EFHW – Pubby (132), WCD (244), UncleEurope (436), WCD (464), Pubby (488)
• DatSwan – UncleEurope (149), MiX (295), Pubby (409)
• UncleEurope – Pubby (138), Mail-Mi (228), EFHW (231)
• Pubby***Town***  – Cayvie (124), MiX (320)
• Shraeye – MiX (273)
• Skip – UncleEurope (143), Pubby (331)
• Mail-Mi – MiX (60), Cayvie (198), MiX (219)

Votes: Day 2

• e! – Galzria (598)
• Space***Town*** –
• WCD – Galzria (668)
• Cayvie – EFHW (543), Skip (708)
• Galzria – EFHW (533)
• Faust – Galzria (550)
• EFHW – Galzria (560)
• DatSwan – e! (601)
• UncleEurope – EFHW (576)
• Shraeye – Galzria (658), Skip (705)
• Skip – EFHW (626)
• Mail-Mi – EFHW (534)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Claims: Day 1

• LaLight – (68) Role PM Suggests Alignment Change potential in game. | (90) My role is straightforward, boring. | (109) Not Boring, but still straightforward
• Mail-Mi – (70) Role PM Suggests Alignment Change potential in game.
• Cayvie – (88) My Role is so fuckin weird. | (101) Bunch of Powers : Percent Chance they Backfire : 1-Shot Vig : Vig only lands 25% of the time : Vig Shot can reload itself : Vig Shot is loud 75% of the time : Vig Shot can backfire & kill Cayve? | (117) No percent chance given on Vig Backfire | (246) Can use multiple powers each night.
• UncleEurope – (99) My Role is pretty Meh
• WCD – (110) Role is Complicated, lots of moving parts, not powerful
• MiX – (221) Suggests Busdriver PR and interactions with Cayvie in the same post
• Skip – (490) I may have something to claim before EOD

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Claims: Day 2

• Cayvie – (540) I was not responsible for either kill last night | (541) I received a message N1 | (543) I figured something out *vote: EFHW* | (544) I’m 90% sure there’s a scum BusDriver | (552) I Shot EFHW N1, Mod Confirmed “Hit” | CLAIM READJUST – Vig 50% chance to hit, and 50% if hit to kill (25% from (101)) | (578) Says MiX was likely the one shot by her use of Vig | (581) Informed of Vig Hit, but not of Vig Kill | (599) Regardless of kill, Day Start flavor will indicate a player was shot if HIT by Cayvie’s Vig | (660) Claims to have sent a message N1, received by UncleE, but not sent to him originally - verified by post (552) “yep, and i shot EFHW last night. and it was confirmed to me that i hit my target. so that's why i'm suspecting bus driving.” | (669) Claims original message target was Mail-Mi | (678) Implies that the message she received contained information about signatures
• UncleEurope – (545) Received a message last night | (652) Confirmed message was sent by player X – Later revealed to be Cayvie (660), from post (552) } (664) Suggests (but doesn’t suggest (665) he has two powers
• Faust – (551) Points out Flavor Differences in kills. Cayvie has a gun, MiX was shot
• Skip – (625) Claims to have sent Cayvie a message N1, Cayvie received (541) | (654) Confirms message was received by Cayvie, and not UncleEurope | (682) Based on discussion surrounding messaging, says it’s very unlikely the message sent was to Cayvie afterall (2%) | (683) Asks Mail-Mi if what he received was an education |  (668) Confirms his message/item/gift went to Mail-Mi
• Mail-Mi – (671) Claims to have received something N1 | (686) Confirms Skip’s question from (683)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please let me know if I've missed anything/gotten anything wrong.



[/list][/list]

[Galzria]

Skip,

Given you were planning on claiming *something* at the end of D1, and now you've claimed to have sent a message to Cayvie N1 (which was redirected to Mail-Mi - Actually, hasn't been confirmed yet - can you confirm your initial target was Cayvie?), care to expand on what it is you were thinking as D1 came to a close?

[skip wooznum]

Skip,

Given you were planning on claiming *something* at the end of D1, and now you've claimed to have sent a message to Cayvie N1 (which was redirected to Mail-Mi - Actually, hasn't been confirmed yet - can you confirm your initial target was Cayvie?), care to expand on what it is you were thinking as D1 came to a close?

I can confirm my initial target was cayvie but i still don't want to elaborate on my almost-claim yesterday. It doesn't really have bearing on anything happening today. It's just some technical detail having to do with my role that might have come into play yesterday but didn't. You can safely ignore it.

[Galzria]

After an extensive re-read, I would be a lot of straw-pennies on this reads list:

WCD - Scum
Cayvie - Scummy
Faust - Middle close to Scummy


EFHW - Middle
Skip - Middle
e! - Middle


UncleE - Town
Shraeye - Town
DatSwan - Townie af
Mail-Mi - Town af

The middle three have been cycled through my order a multitude of times as to who amongst them is most likely scum... ultimately, hell if I know. That's the closest I could place them but... /shrug

-----

Vote: WCD - She's Scum McScumerston. There's a tick I only just noticed on re-read that I'll happily divulge at game's end. But I'm very confident in this read.

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

[faust]

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

What's the benefit of revealing it at the end of the game as opposed to now?

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, fair enough, Didds being dead works for me.

Vote: Didds

[Galzria]

Alright, might as well claim. Not really worried about being lynched, but think it's in town's best interest to have more knowledge at this point:

I'm Anthony Walker, Delusional Humanist. I'm technically third-party, a Survivor variant. I (generally) have no active PR's, but at night, a random half of the living game's populace is placed into QT with a message about "ridding the Earth of Aliens", and provided a petition to do so (I am not guaranteed to be in this QT, as those of you who got it last night will know). My PR is active whether I am dead or alive (the QT's keep generating, even if I die), and if I can get 4 unique players to sign the petition at night, I can ASK (and it is THEIR CHOICE to accept) another player of my choosing to carry on for me in case of my death. Their alignment and win condition do NOT change if they accept, they simply ALSO bear me my win-condition (note, to be clear, it does NOT impact their win-condition): I win if I (or my Proxy) are alive at the end of the game and there are no Aliens left alive.

At first, I wasn't really sure how to approach this. But Pubby and MiX both flipped Volm (and LaLight Human). All were Town. This leads me to believe that Scum!Aliens at this point are worth more to me to lynch than Town!Aliens. As I do not have a killing ability, the only ways for me to dispose of Aliens are to lynch them, or hope they're killed at night. Realistically though, and for the most part, I'm Vanilla hoping my win condition gets met.

Last night, 1 player (I'm not provided names, just numbers) signed the petition from the QT to "Rid the Earth of Aliens".

Why claim? Because my role is - and I use this humorously based on D1 conversations - "boring". I have nothing to do! I want SOME town dead, yes, but I don't know who and have no way of finding out. Same goes for scum. Hell, assuming they're not all Aliens themselves, I don't even actually CARE which of town/scum wins... as long as the Aliens in both factions are dead.

If you're an Alien, and you're town, sorry, I want you dead. But I can't DO anything about it except lynch you and hope you get NK'd by scum. If you're an Alien, and you're scum, well - sorry, but I also want you dead. Except I can't even really hope that town magically kills you at night. So the only way I have to get rid of you is by lynching you.

So I guess... yeah. That's why I'm claiming - because given MiX & Pubby's flip, I'm FAR more interested in lynching scum at this point than I am at lynching town - and I think that knowledge (who/what I am) is better served being public than being private.

[shraeye]

Skip,

Given you were planning on claiming *something* at the end of D1, and now you've claimed to have sent a message to Cayvie N1 (which was redirected to Mail-Mi - Actually, hasn't been confirmed yet - can you confirm your initial target was Cayvie?), care to expand on what it is you were thinking as D1 came to a close?

Skip didn't want us to mistakenly lynch him before he could send his VERY IMPORTANT message about education

[Galzria]

Incidentally, this is why I've had such a hard time getting in to this game. Being third party like SK is generally a much more active PR. You have decisions to make. Things to do. You often control some sort of outcome - even when it's not explicitly your own.

Survivor... Just wants to live. He doesn't generally care who lives/dies. I don't believe (someone check me? I've been in a LOT of games in my time) I've ever rolled this alignment. While I'm a variant (that's slightly stronger, as I have a way to win beyond death) of Survivor, I generally have had no incentive to do anything. I can't really Alien Hunt, and even if I could (Ok, there are SOME posts D1 that imply whether certain players may/may no be Aliens), there's nothing I can do even if I "identify" an Alien, as Alien doesn't necessarily mean town or scum - and going "hard" for an Alien that's town isn't exactly a pro-me thing to do.

So... yeah. I've been having trouble engaging. My reads have been genuine, because my default when not scum is to scum-hunt... but I just generally haven't cared all that much.

[Galzria]

Skip,

Given you were planning on claiming *something* at the end of D1, and now you've claimed to have sent a message to Cayvie N1 (which was redirected to Mail-Mi - Actually, hasn't been confirmed yet - can you confirm your initial target was Cayvie?), care to expand on what it is you were thinking as D1 came to a close?

Skip didn't want us to mistakenly lynch him before he could send his VERY IMPORTANT message about education

I don't think he was concerned about being lynched himself - but otherwise, I agree with your level of sarcasm.

[faust]

Alright, might as well claim. Not really worried about being lynched, but think it's in town's best interest to have more knowledge at this point:
I'm Anthony Walker, Delusional Humanist. I'm technically third-party, a Survivor variant. I (generally) have no active PR's, but at night, a random half of the living game's populace is placed into QT with a message about "ridding the Earth of Aliens", and provided a petition to do so (I am not guaranteed to be in this QT, as those of you who got it last night will know). My PR is active whether I am dead or alive (the QT's keep generating, even if I die), and if I can get 4 unique players to sign the petition at night, I can ASK (and it is THEIR CHOICE to accept) another player of my choosing to carry on for me in case of my death. Their alignment and win condition do NOT change if they accept, they simply ALSO bear me my win-condition (note, to be clear, it does NOT impact their win-condition): I win if I (or my Proxy) are alive at the end of the game and there are no Aliens left alive.

Is their any benefit to another player for accepting the thing? You say that the QT keeps generating, does that mean that you can ask another player to take your mantle even if you're already dead?

[faust]

We're probably going to want to have the members of that QT claimed, and then we should have a claim of who signed the petition.

[Galzria]

Alright, might as well claim. Not really worried about being lynched, but think it's in town's best interest to have more knowledge at this point:
I'm Anthony Walker, Delusional Humanist. I'm technically third-party, a Survivor variant. I (generally) have no active PR's, but at night, a random half of the living game's populace is placed into QT with a message about "ridding the Earth of Aliens", and provided a petition to do so (I am not guaranteed to be in this QT, as those of you who got it last night will know). My PR is active whether I am dead or alive (the QT's keep generating, even if I die), and if I can get 4 unique players to sign the petition at night, I can ASK (and it is THEIR CHOICE to accept) another player of my choosing to carry on for me in case of my death. Their alignment and win condition do NOT change if they accept, they simply ALSO bear me my win-condition (note, to be clear, it does NOT impact their win-condition): I win if I (or my Proxy) are alive at the end of the game and there are no Aliens left alive.

Is their any benefit to another player for accepting the thing? You say that the QT keeps generating, does that mean that you can ask another player to take your mantle even if you're already dead?

To the first question: No advantage, no. No harm either. This would be the only advantage to not claiming... kind of? I could try and spin there to be an advantage that doesn’t exist? In the end it only helps me potentially reach my win condition. So if the offer is made at some point in the future - well, up to you if you care or not.

To the second question: Yes

Small clarification (don’t think it matters, but in the spirit of completeness): I can’t ask ANY player to take on as my Proxy in case of death - I can only ask from the list of players that have signed the petition.

[Uncleeurope]

Knowing how these setups work, I have a feeling we have another third party who is interested in the eradication of human life, or at the very least the survival of aliens.

Do you have more information as to how the petition thing works?

As in how many people need to sign it?

Or is it just a majority among the players in the group that matters?

What does it passing do?

PPE - ah, signing lets you choose them. So there is nothing to pass?

Do you only learn who signed, not who didn’t?

[Uncleeurope]

I wonder if players who don’t sign are added to a list of players that my imaginary third party can jump to.

[faust]

Knowing how these setups work, I have a feeling we have another third party who is interested in the eradication of human life, or at the very least the survival of aliens.

I'm doubtful that this is generally how these setups work. When I ran iZombie Mafia, the third party (who wanted only Zombies alive) was very fixated on the idea of a team that wants to kill all Zombies. But such a team did not exist.

[Uncleeurope]

Fair enough.

[faust]

I think Galzria is generally telling the truth, obviously some things are confirmable with the QT and everything. I also think that there are things he's not telling us. In particular, I would be very surprised if all there was to the petition was giving Galzria a proxy to carry on if he dies; that seems like way too much mechanics for something that could have been implemented in a much easier fashion.

[faust]

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

[cayvie]

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

What's the benefit of revealing it at the end of the game as opposed to now?

seconding this question. why should i vote didds based on what the survivor promises to tell me after game's end?

[Galzria]

Knowing how these setups work, I have a feeling we have another third party who is interested in the eradication of human life, or at the very least the survival of aliens.

Do you have more information as to how the petition thing works?

As in how many people need to sign it?

Or is it just a majority among the players in the group that matters?

What does it passing do?

PPE - ah, signing lets you choose them. So there is nothing to pass?

Do you only learn who signed, not who didn’t?

The players in the QT are a random half of living players rounded down.

According to my PR, each player is asked to “sign a petition promising to help eradicate the Earth of all Aliens”, or something to that affect. I’m not actually sure exactly how it’s worded.

I need a minimum of 4 unique signatures before my ability to ask a player to be my proxy activates. At this point I can ask any of the players who have signed to be my proxy in the case of my death.

I do not learn WHO, only the NUMBER of unique signatures. One person signed last night.

[Galzria]

I think Galzria is generally telling the truth, obviously some things are confirmable with the QT and everything. I also think that there are things he's not telling us. In particular, I would be very surprised if all there was to the petition was giving Galzria a proxy to carry on if he dies; that seems like way too much mechanics for something that could have been implemented in a much easier fashion.

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

Don’t know what to tell you. Take it up with Ash after the game. Or maybe I will. He doesn’t publish his MOD QT’s though - but I usually publish my personal ones. I told him pre-game the role seemed bland - but I would withhold judgement as I didn’t really know what the situation was with Aliens in terms of alignment.

[Galzria]

Knowing how these setups work, I have a feeling we have another third party who is interested in the eradication of human life, or at the very least the survival of aliens.

Do you have more information as to how the petition thing works?

As in how many people need to sign it?

Or is it just a majority among the players in the group that matters?

What does it passing do?

PPE - ah, signing lets you choose them. So there is nothing to pass?

Do you only learn who signed, not who didn’t?

The players in the QT are a random half of living players rounded down.

According to my PR, each player is asked to “sign a petition promising to help eradicate the Earth of all Aliens”, or something to that affect. I’m not actually sure exactly how it’s worded.

I need a minimum of 4 unique signatures before my ability to ask a player to be my proxy activates. At this point I can ask any of the players who have signed to be my proxy in the case of my death.

I do not learn WHO, only the NUMBER of unique signatures. One person signed last night.

Actually, this seems strange to me.

Yeah. If I have 4 signatures (or more) I can ask a player to become my Proxy. I can only ask if they’ve signed the petition. But I don’t know who has signed, only the number. Hum. Hold tight - going to ask Ash to clarify this.

[Galzria]

Small correction:

One Third of living players are invited to the QT each night, not one half. My bad. I read it N0 and hadn’t circled back to my QT since then.

[skip wooznum]

vote: galz

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

This.

And also, how would you get 4 people to sign a petition that has no benefit for them?

[Galzria]

vote: galz

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

This.

And also, how would you get 4 people to sign a petition that has no benefit for them?

/shrug - I wasn’t in the QT last night, but somebody signed it anyway.

Am I L-1? I’ll hammer myself after I get a confirmation on my question from Ash. Like I said, dead or alive doesn’t matter to me.

[Uncleeurope]

vote: galz

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

This.

And also, how would you get 4 people to sign a petition that has no benefit for them?

I imagine if you saw a petition that said “do you want to stop all aliens?” Or whatever, that you would at least consider signing it.

[2.71828.....]

vote: galz

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

This.

And also, how would you get 4 people to sign a petition that has no benefit for them?

I imagine if you saw a petition that said “do you want to stop all aliens?” Or whatever, that you would at least consider signing it.

I mean, if I were human (not claiming whether I am or not) my first reaction would probably be signing the petition just because it is cool and different.

I was not presented the option to sign it last night though.

[EFHW]

vote: galz

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

This.

And also, how would you get 4 people to sign a petition that has no benefit for them?

/shrug - I wasn’t in the QT last night, but somebody signed it anyway.

Am I L-1? I’ll hammer myself after I get a confirmation on my question from Ash. Like I said, dead or alive doesn’t matter to me.

You don't have a proxy yet, according to your claim.

[faust]

vote: galz

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

This.

And also, how would you get 4 people to sign a petition that has no benefit for them?

I imagine if you saw a petition that said “do you want to stop all aliens?” Or whatever, that you would at least consider signing it.

I mean, if I were human (not claiming whether I am or not) my first reaction would probably be signing the petition just because it is cool and different.

I was not presented the option to sign it last night though.

These are weird to me. Clearly in the context of most settings, racism is a thing that the bad guys do? And that town therefore shouldn't indulge in?

[faust]

Anyways, unvote. I want all things of the neighborhood claimed before the day ends.

[EFHW]

Can an alien sign your petition?

[EFHW]

Do signers know they might become your proxy?

[2.71828.....]

vote: galz

So I think I want to leave my vote on Galzria until he tells us the whole truth.

This.

And also, how would you get 4 people to sign a petition that has no benefit for them?

I imagine if you saw a petition that said “do you want to stop all aliens?” Or whatever, that you would at least consider signing it.

I mean, if I were human (not claiming whether I am or not) my first reaction would probably be signing the petition just because it is cool and different.

I was not presented the option to sign it last night though.

These are weird to me. Clearly in the context of most settings, racism is a thing that the bad guys do? And that town therefore shouldn't indulge in?

I mean, you put it that way...

[2.71828.....]

Anyways, unvote. I want all things of the neighborhood claimed before the day ends.

You say this petition is basically scummy (or at least anti-town) and then you unvote Galzria.

So...you believe his claim just don't think he is worth lynching?

[Uncleeurope]

Can an alien sign your petition?

I see no reason why not.

Do signers know they might become your proxy?

Nope.

Anyways, unvote. I want all things of the neighborhood claimed before the day ends.

I mean, sure, but I don’t know how helpful it is.

I actually just thought it was a hidden passive of mine since nobody in the group claimed to have triggered it. It was possible each of us were selected by Ash as a part of the game setup. Turns out it was random.

We were asked if we wanted to sign a petition, signing could not be undone. We had no idea what the ramifications would be either way.

Two of the three had immediate and opposite stances, and both made a case to the third who sided with not signing.

I can’t decide if knowing who signed is something I should divulge or not, or even if I should reveal who the other two members were. I do know that the information will do little to influence people’s votes today.

[skip wooznum]

So all together there were 3 in the qt or 3+you?

[Uncleeurope]

I should also mention that if Galz’s one third of alive player thing is to be believed, then one member of the group never posted in the thread.

(Because 1/3 of 13 is at least four in most worlds, and we only had three people)

[skip wooznum]

Yeah

[faust]

Anyways, unvote. I want all things of the neighborhood claimed before the day ends.

You say this petition is basically scummy (or at least anti-town) and then you unvote Galzria.

So...you believe his claim just don't think he is worth lynching?

Did you read the sentence after my unvote? Because that was supposed to be the reason for it.

[faust]

I unvoted to prevent a self-hammer, which Galzria threatened.

[faust]

I can’t decide if knowing who signed is something I should divulge or not, or even if I should reveal who the other two members were. I do know that the information will do little to influence people’s votes today.

I think having all information is particularly relevant if it turns out that Galzria lied.

[Uncleeurope]

I can’t decide if knowing who signed is something I should divulge or not, or even if I should reveal who the other two members were. I do know that the information will do little to influence people’s votes today.

I think having all information is particularly relevant if it turns out that Galzria lied.

Eh, the only lie I have the ability to detect with my info is that the 1/3 of living players thing turned out to be iffy.

I will wait for everyone to react to Galz/My info drop before exploring further leaks of info.

[skip wooznum]

@galz
Do you have to live until the end of the game, or just outlive all aliens?

[faust]

Vote: Eddie

[shraeye]

I unvoted to prevent a self-hammer, which Galzria threatened.

Galz was nowhere close to L-1, though, yeah?

[EFHW]

The main inconsistency I see is that Galz doesn't have a proxy yet but is indifferent about dying. I'm thinking ash wouldn't set it up that he could choose a proxy after he dies.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Eddie

Haha

Yeah, no.

[faust]

Votes: Day 1

• e! – Cayvie (367), Pubby (502)
• MiX***Town*** – Pubby (58), Swan (85), LaLight (91), Pubby (108), faust (122), UncleEurope (155), e! (168), Cayvie (201), Galzria (276), Cayvie (278), Swan (305), Cayvie (307), EFHW (357), Pubby (470), EFHW (481)
• LaLight***Town*** – Cayvie (61), WCD (185), UncleEurope (230), MiX (319), EFHW (421), Pubby (487)
• WCD – Cayvie (235), EFHW (349), Pubby (479)
• Cayvie – LaLight (59), UncleEurope (140), MiX (246), Swan (299), Pubby (324), LaLight (407), EFHW (418), Mail-Mi (446), Pubby (478)
• Galzria – Cayvie (194), MiX (275), Pubby (514)
• Faust – WCD (118), Mail-Mi (210), MiX (296), EFHW (346), Mail-Mi (441), EFHW (498), Galzria (500)
• EFHW – Pubby (132), WCD (244), UncleEurope (436), WCD (464), Pubby (488)
• DatSwan – UncleEurope (149), MiX (295), Pubby (409)
• UncleEurope – Pubby (138), Mail-Mi (228), EFHW (231)
• Pubby***Town***  – Cayvie (124), MiX (320)
• Shraeye – MiX (273)
• Skip – UncleEurope (143), Pubby (331)
• Mail-Mi – MiX (60), Cayvie (198), MiX (219)

I kind of intended to use this as a resource but uh.... there are only 2 votes on pubby registered, and he was lynched. So I'll assume that data is compromised.

Space, can you provide a better vote overview?

[faust]

Ah quote fail. THis is the bit that I wrote:

I kind of intended to use this as a resource but uh.... there are only 2 votes on pubby registered, and he was lynched. So I'll assume that data is compromised.

Space, can you provide a better vote overview?

[faust]

Ah wait I think I get it... it's who to people voted for, not who voted for those people. nevermind then.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.5:

EFHW (1): mail-mi
Galzria (3): EFHW, 2.7, WCD
2.7 (1): DatSwan
skip (2): shraeye, cayvie
WCD (2): Galzria, uncle
uncleeurope (1): faust

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, skip

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[mail-mi]

Lots of stuff happened while I was asleep. I think Galz is telling the truth, and I'm feeling scummy about Eddie.

[shraeye]

What else happened when you were asleep?  What was the towniest reaction?  What was the most confusing interaction?

[mail-mi]

What else happened when you were asleep?

I dreamed, and my wife was also sleeping beside me.

What was the towniest reaction?

Mine, obviously.   

What was the most confusing interaction?

Probably Skip. I don't know why he would just vote Galz and then up and leave. I also don't see why we would disbelieve Galz's claim, it seems honest.

[skip wooznum]

What was the most confusing interaction?

Probably Skip. I don't know why he would just vote Galz and then up and leave. I also don't see why we would disbelieve Galz's claim, it seems honest.

I agree with faust that he's holding back part of his role. I think he's mostly telling the truth though.

[EFHW]

Now that we have an idea what the QT and petition are about (I was not in the QT), it changes how future QT members will think about signing.

Is there any motive for aliens to protect each other? Does alien A care if aliens B, C and D are killed? Is there someone out there with the wincon that {random number} aliens should survive?

It is against town's interests to claim human/alien, even though the humans' individual interests would be furthered by claiming. (I'm assuming mafia are as likely to be alien as town players are.) This is because Galz and his proxy would be motivated to vote people for reasons other than scumminess.

Galz is still a survivor in the alignment sense and we should lynch him as a wildcard who would take on mafia's agenda without hesitation if it looked promising. We also don't want him to have a chance to name a proxy, so no one should sign. (Here again the group interests are different from individual interests.)

[Uncleeurope]

Lots of stuff happened while I was asleep. I think Galz is telling the truth, and I'm feeling scummy about Eddie.

Why?

I genuinely am confused as to how anything I did there means anything in connection to my alignment.

And more confused about how it trends towards scum.

[skip wooznum]

Now that we have an idea what the QT and petition are about (I was not in the QT), it changes how future QT members will think about signing.

Is there any motive for aliens to protect each other? Does alien A care if aliens B, C and D are killed? Is there someone out there with the wincon that {random number} aliens should survive?

It is against town's interests to claim human/alien, even though the humans' individual interests would be furthered by claiming. (I'm assuming mafia are as likely to be alien as town players are.) This is because Galz and his proxy would be motivated to vote people for reasons other than scumminess.

Galz is still a survivor in the alignment sense and we should lynch him as a wildcard who would take on mafia's agenda without hesitation if it looked promising. We also don't want him to have a chance to name a proxy, so no one should sign. (Here again the group interests are different from individual interests.)

If galz is to be believed, naming a proxy won't have any effect on anybody other than galz. It just means galz would win if the the proxy stays alive and all aliens die. The proxy themselves could still lose, because their win con will not have changed.

Now, to me that's somewhat hard to believe. Basically, someone gets to be kingmaker and decide whether galz's chance of winning stays alive, and the decision has no relevance to any other player.

[Uncleeurope]

It was my understanding that the person would also gain Galz’s win condition.

[Uncleeurope]

... if I can get 4 unique players to sign the petition at night, I can ASK (and it is THEIR CHOICE to accept) another player of my choosing to carry on for me in case of my death. Their alignment and win condition do NOT change if they accept, they simply ALSO bear me my win-condition (note, to be clear, it does NOT impact their win-condition): I win if I (or my Proxy) are alive at the end of the game and there are no Aliens left alive.

...

[Uncleeurope]

Am I misreading that?

[Uncleeurope]

I keep reading that as meaning that they maintain their original win condition (that is not altered) but they gain an extra win condition.

[Galzria]

It was my understanding that the person would also gain Galz’s win condition.

Sadly, that is not my understanding when I asked Ash.

My wincon says that I win if, when the game ends, there are any Delusional Humanists left alive and all Aliens are dead.

My ability when I reach 4 signed petitions is to ask one of those signees if they want to become a Delusional Humanist. It is made explicitly clear this will not impact their role or current alignment (I asked night 0). For example, LaLight would still have flipped green (town). He would’ve been “Matt Mason, The Little Prince, a Delusional Humanist... he was Human”.

He still would’ve maintained his town win condition, and if town were to win with no aliens left alive I would win along with town. If town were to win but one of them were still an Alien, I would lose. To LaLight, the outcome would have no difference. It would just matter to me.

It’s not a way of “making someone kingmaker”, it’s a way of making Survivor slightly more likely to win. Without the ability to have a Proxy once I’m dead, that’s it. Every other faction can continue to win if their “team” wins, even if they’re dead. My winning isn’t at odds with anybody else winning (unless you’re an SK and Alien - then I’m strictly at odds with you. But so is everybody else).

[EFHW]

Ok, glad I misunderstood that wincon thing. Can you choose a proxy after you die? Can you be in the qt after you die?

[skip wooznum]

To be clear, can you win and your proxy lose? For example if they're endgamed.

[WestCoastDidds]

Eddie- how likely do you think it is that the people who signed the Galz thingy experience no effect from signing?

[Uncleeurope]

*shrugs*

You know as much as I do at this point, I have shared all I know.

In purely theoretical, I doubt they would have experienced an additional thingy.

Maybe an additional thingy would come into play at 4 signatures, but I have no idea.

I also think it’s likely that Galz is holding back something (I know I would), I just have no idea what it would be.

[Galzria]

To be clear, can you win and your proxy lose? For example if they're endgamed.

No, I would lose as well - If I'm dead and my Proxy is alive (say it's you, and say you're town, and say you're Human), then if you die or are end-gamed - I lose as well. If you die, but town wins, I lose because you and I are both dead. But if you win, and the remaining town are all Human, then I would also win.

My Proxy - and thus in a sense MY win condition become directly tied to the factional win condition of my Proxy if I'm dead. That is, my only way to win is if my Proxy also wins - via their own win condition - and in doing so also meets my criteria (only living players are Human).

If my Proxy is Alien (I have no stated restrictions from Ash that suggests this can't happen...), I assume then I simply can't win by way of them - as they would need to die in order for my win condition to be met... in which case all Delusional Humanists would be dead. In this case I would be a more traditional Survivor (Once I'm dead that's it for me) - with the disadvantage of not even strictly being able to win with whichever faction wins... if that faction contains any living Aliens! 

[Galzria]

Ok, glad I misunderstood that wincon thing. Can you choose a proxy after you die? Can you be in the qt after you die?

Yes to the first, No to the second - and I cannot sign my own Petition (even if I were in the QT). My signature doesn't count.

Also - there was some confusion on the number of people in the QT last night? I think Eddie said there were 3 that spoke - I have confirmed by both reading my role PM and asking Ash - it is 1/3 of living players, rounded down. So with 13 alive last night, there should have been 4 players in the QT - so my guess is that one player simply didn't say anything so you didn't know they were there.

[cayvie]

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

What's the benefit of revealing it at the end of the game as opposed to now?

seconding this question. why should i vote didds based on what the survivor promises to tell me after game's end?

still wondering this. if you've found a didds scumtell, why wouldn't you share it?

i've never seen Galz play bored and kinda giving up before, i don't know what to make of it.

(not a QT er)

[skip wooznum]

I posted it in the v/la thread but I may as well say it here too; I'll have no access starting soon and lasting until Thursday evening forum time

[Galzria]

*shrugs*

You know as much as I do at this point, I have shared all I know.

In purely theoretical, I doubt they would have experienced an additional thingy.

Maybe an additional thingy would come into play at 4 signatures, but I have no idea.

I also think it’s likely that Galz is holding back something (I know I would), I just have no idea what it would be.

Wish that I were. I mean, you're generally right that I might (it would depend on what it was, honestly, and how I valued that piece of the PR, but not this time. Everybody is stating that "there should be more to it" - but look at it for what it is.

I'm a Survivor. In a traditional role, that would mean that if I'm alive at the end of the game, then I win alongside whichever faction wins. But it's been made more difficult because even if that criteria is met, I might still not win because one of those players might be an Alien. That difficulty is most likely balanced out by there not being a whole heaping ton of Aliens in this game. The fact that we've seen two of them, if I were to guess, is a vast over representation of their numbers. Small sample size and all. So all in all, call it a wash in terms of "strength" of role. I'm probably about on par with a regular Survivor.

Survivor's are generally considered one of the hardest to win with factions in the game. They're added when a game needs an extra balancing piece, but neither main faction (town/scum) need to be adjusted, and another killing role (SK) isn't wanted. This "difficulty to win" is balanced by my "PR" - My ability, through the Petition, to gain a Proxy that gives me a fighting chance to win even in the very likely event I'm lynched/NK'd at some point (the majority of players in the game die at some point). It has the interesting twist of directly tying my chances to the win-con of that player, as I cannot win if they also do not win. If I were to have 4 signatures prior to my death, I would almost certainly be "siding" myself with my Proxy partner - as it is, having the ability to use it posthumously (still only at night, still only if I have 4 unique signatures)  allows me to "wait out" the game until later days before making the request - giving me the best odds of winning as I can try to read the gamestate and see if I prefer my proxy be aligned with town or with scum (I still need to have a correct on my choices alignment). In all, it's a fun way to give me a chance of having a better chance to win than a traditional Survivor. I don't know why anybody would expect even more from the role. That's it. It's boring, but interesting. It is what it is.

[Uncleeurope]

The main thing is that whatever is being hidden, if it exists, it doesn’t matter right now.

[WestCoastDidds]

I was also in the QT. I did not sign, after listening to why someone signed and why Eddie did not. Ultimately, I did not sign because the petition has an abrasive, absolutist tone that is generally not my jam, plus I am risk-averse.

I suspect that signing might result in negative consequences. I am curious as to why Eddie thinks it might not.

[faust]

The main thing is that whatever is being hidden, if it exists, it doesn’t matter right now.

I kind of matters whether Galzria is a Survivor or regular scum.

[faust]

I was also in the QT. I did not sign, after listening to why someone signed and why Eddie did not. Ultimately, I did not sign because the petition has an abrasive, absolutist tone that is generally not my jam, plus I am risk-averse.

I suspect that signing might result in negative consequences. I am curious as to why Eddie thinks it might not.

So who signed?

[faust]

In other news, I can confirm that my night action was also tampered with. I did not target cayvie.

[Uncleeurope]

I was also in the QT. I did not sign, after listening to why someone signed and why Eddie did not. Ultimately, I did not sign because the petition has an abrasive, absolutist tone that is generally not my jam, plus I am risk-averse.

I suspect that signing might result in negative consequences. I am curious as to why Eddie thinks it might not.

So who signed?

Fine. LL signed.

He is dead now.

There is probably a 4th person who remained silent.

Probably.

[WestCoastDidds]

LaLight signed

PPE: yeah

[cayvie]

I was also in the QT. I did not sign, after listening to why someone signed and why Eddie did not. Ultimately, I did not sign because the petition has an abrasive, absolutist tone that is generally not my jam, plus I am risk-averse.

I suspect that signing might result in negative consequences. I am curious as to why Eddie thinks it might not.

So who signed?

Fine. LL signed.

He is dead now.

There is probably a 4th person who remained silent.

Probably.

this probably means that LL was the source of my message last night.

[WestCoastDidds]

LaLight signed and then died. It may be a coincidence, but since he wasn't the only death last night, my guess is that signing = death. Its a way more direct line than the possibilities of maybe Cavyie's wandering shot.

Galz using LL as his example of what his win condition might do to someone made me itchy. Between him using that example and then voting for me, it sure seems like the folks in the QT were not unknown to him.

vote: Galz

[skip wooznum]

I'm sorry but I just don't get it.

Why would the proxy need to agree to be proxy? Them becoming proxy can have no effect on themselves nor on any other player other than galz. There's no need for them to give permission for something like that. The role as claimed makes no sender to me.

[EFHW]

I would expect there to at least be a flavor cop for aliens.

[WestCoastDidds]

Then there is Space coming to avenge LL's death. Which could have been tied to LL's role, or to having died from signing??

[skip wooznum]

I'm sorry but I just don't get it.

Why would the proxy need to agree to be proxy? Them becoming proxy can have no effect on themselves nor on any other player other than galz. There's no need for them to give permission for something like that. The role as claimed makes no sense to me.

ebwop

[Uncleeurope]

LaLight signed and then died. It may be a coincidence, but since he wasn't the only death last night, my guess is that signing = death. Its a way more direct line than the possibilities of maybe Cavyie's wandering shot.

Galz using LL as his example of what his win condition might do to someone made me itchy. Between him using that example and then voting for me, it sure seems like the folks in the QT were not unknown to him.

vote: Galz

So you are postulating that the scum kill got blocked last night?

Or I guess that scum killed MiX and Cayvie didn’t do anything?

[Uncleeurope]

Because what I had been theorizing is that either you or our silent 4th saw the signing as a potential threat to the aliens on the scum team and decided to take steps.

[WestCoastDidds]

LaLight signed and then died. It may be a coincidence, but since he wasn't the only death last night, my guess is that signing = death. Its a way more direct line than the possibilities of maybe Cavyie's wandering shot.

Galz using LL as his example of what his win condition might do to someone made me itchy. Between him using that example and then voting for me, it sure seems like the folks in the QT were not unknown to him.

vote: Galz

So you are postulating that the scum kill got blocked last night?

Or I guess that scum killed MiX and Cayvie didn’t do anything?

The latter- and not that she didn't do anything, but that she didn't kill or land the shot

[WestCoastDidds]

Because what I had been theorizing is that either you or our silent 4th saw the signing as a potential threat to the aliens on the scum team and decided to take steps.

Well, I don't know about the silent watcher, but I was under the impression that aliens, or at least the Volm, are good guys since two of the three green flips that we've had have been Volm.

[Galzria]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

[Uncleeurope]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

You cannot win if you die here, why would you do that?

[Galzria]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

You cannot win if you die here, why would you do that?

Of course I can. I can select my Proxy posthumously. The meetings continue to take place if I die. My PR is active in life and in death.

[Uncleeurope]

Ahkay, got it.

[EFHW]

There's no confirmation in Galz's story that he is survivor. He could actually be part of a faction.

[faust]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

You cannot win if you die here, why would you do that?

Of course I can. I can select my Proxy posthumously. The meetings continue to take place if I die. My PR is active in life and in death.

But why would anyone want to help you now?

[Galzria]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

You cannot win if you die here, why would you do that?

Of course I can. I can select my Proxy posthumously. The meetings continue to take place if I die. My PR is active in life and in death.

i mean, town SHOULDN'T lynch me here - they're already behind and will be giving scum another night of NK's. Town is behind, and needs all the help it can get (and shouldn't be actively hurting itself by giving Scum more Night Actions). But it doesn't actually matter to ME.

[Galzria]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

You cannot win if you die here, why would you do that?

Of course I can. I can select my Proxy posthumously. The meetings continue to take place if I die. My PR is active in life and in death.

But why would anyone want to help you now?

Why shouldn't they?

[WestCoastDidds]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

[Galzria]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

You are scum, but I'm not going to have a debate with you about it.

Signing doesn't = death, but that's what you wanted to frame it as when you shot LL knowing he was signing it last night. That's cool. You can lynch me, I'll flip Anthony Walker, A Delusional Humanist. At night, the meeting QT will still be generated, and the petition will still go out. Everything I've claimed will happen will continue to happen. People will probably sign it in secret, just to prove you wrong (and me right) because that's how people are. Tomorrow, you'll get lynched, and you'll flip scum - clearing everything I've stated as being true, as I'll flip what I've claimed, and you'll flip whatever flavor of scum you actually are.

[faust]

Why shouldn't they?

Because if you're telling the truth, then it doesn't help anyone, and there's always the chance that you're lying and something more sinister happens when you sign the petition. So the smart thing is to not sign it.

[Uncleeurope]

Why shouldn't they?

Because if you're telling the truth, then it doesn't help anyone, and there's always the chance that you're lying and something more sinister happens when you sign the petition. So the smart thing is to not sign it.

Well, they might sign it after he flips, if his claim.

Do you think Galz is the best lynch for today?

[WestCoastDidds]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

You are scum, but I'm not going to have a debate with you about it.

Signing doesn't = death, but that's what you wanted to frame it as when you shot LL knowing he was signing it last night. That's cool. You can lynch me, I'll flip Anthony Walker, A Delusional Humanist. At night, the meeting QT will still be generated, and the petition will still go out. Everything I've claimed will happen will continue to happen. People will probably sign it in secret, just to prove you wrong (and me right) because that's how people are. Tomorrow, you'll get lynched, and you'll flip scum - clearing everything I've stated as being true, as I'll flip what I've claimed, and you'll flip whatever flavor of scum you actually are.

Wow...you are the delusional humanist. I am not scum. Not even a little bit. Your certainty is laughable, but also infuriating because the only way for me to prove that you're wrong is to die, and then I am dead and you win and you don't even care that you are completely mischaracterizing me.

If you think anyone would sign to prove me wrong you are WAAAYYY overestimating my value to anyone in this game.

Even your scenario doesn't make sense.  If Lalight was killed because he signed, Eddie is just as likely to have done it. You zeroing in on me says something else is going on here.

[Galzria]

Why shouldn't they?

Because if you're telling the truth, then it doesn't help anyone, and there's always the chance that you're lying and something more sinister happens when you sign the petition. So the smart thing is to not sign it.

Generally a true thought process. But not all people are as cold and heartless as you are (I want to make it clear I'm absolutely joking here - I don't in any way intend that as a serious insult towards you!).

If I'm telling the truth (and I am), it doesn't help anybody directly, no. It also, if I'm telling the truth (I am) doesn't hurt them either. And there ARE reasons that knowing is valuable to town. Now... town doesn't need FOUR people to verify - so the chances I get 4 signatures is relatively small.... but there IS value to town in one player being able to confirm the truth.

[faust]

Why shouldn't they?

Because if you're telling the truth, then it doesn't help anyone, and there's always the chance that you're lying and something more sinister happens when you sign the petition. So the smart thing is to not sign it.

Well, they might sign it after he flips, if his claim.

Do you think Galz is the best lynch for today?

If he flips third party, there's still no guarantee that he didn't lie.

I don't know, not necessarily. But we can definitely do worse.

[Swowl]

Holy crap.

[Swowl]

So fact check me here galz, that was a lot of words in a row to catch up on...

1) You currently have survivor win con or whatever, but you need to be alive when all aliens are dead.
   1a) if you get a proxy, they can act in your stead for that same win con
        ----QUESTION: Do they need to fufill their own win con still to win? Or just your win con? Or do they literally change nothing and you just get a puppet or whatever?

2) Each night, alive or dead, 1/3 of the population will get this petition thingy giving them a chance to sign.
QUESTIONS:
a) Assuming you get your 4 signs, does it continue to send and make a QT each night for the rest of the game. Like tonight, you get 3 more. Tomorrow night it sends again or no?
b) You need 4 TOTAL signs right? like not 4 in a night?
c) To the best of your knowledge, there is ABSOLUTELY NO RAMIFICATIONS AT ALL for signing the document?


3) If you get 4 signs then you get the ability to ask someone to be a proxy.
QUESTIONS:
a) How are you going to know who to ask if you never know who is in the groups?
b) Furthing on that, since you said that you can still ask someone after death.... like you wouldn't even be able to ask in thread for someone to speak up... so just anything on how that works at all?
c) How many times can you ask. I.E. - if tomorrow you get "3 more" and now you have 4. Can you just start cycling through people until you hopefully find a yes? or is it x shot?
d) how does the question of "will you be my proxy queen" get sent? do you submit to Ash? is it in game thread?


4) You opened your claim with making your "case" on WCD, which I do not agree with at all, but whatever that is not the point. Everything you did actually does line up with having the mindset of trying to find skum. At first I think it didn't, but thinking it over, it makes sense. You look into you top likely case, post it first, then post up the claim and then point out that you ofc want skum to get lynched. All that is fine... here are the issues.
a) I do not think you are gonna get skum out of WCD here, which of course is just clashing opinions, but makes me weary of your "read".
b) If your win con is "be alive when all the Aliens are dead", and as you said you believe there are Town and Skum Aliens... how do you see this claim working out for you? Real question, I did rough math, but I am sure you did it better before you claimed. Like on the ven diagram of things, I don't think that works in your favor right? Potential roles that would not want to sign your thing, unless I am missing something, include [Town Alien, Skum Alien, or like non-Alien skum]. Players on the possible sign list would be [Non-Alien Town.... and others?]. So yeah, I guess the question is... because you were not close enough to lynch to feel pressure at the time of claim... why not hold onto this info for a while? What did you gain here?
c) If I understand how this all works... which I probably don't... you are essentially just asking for help on the promise that you are tellilng the truth here right? Like there is absolutely no gain or loss for players that sign and/or agree to proxy you?


Sorry that is a lot and apologies if you embedded them in you thought process, but if I could just get some quick yes/no clarifications it would settle my mind a lot.

[Galzria]

So fact check me here galz, that was a lot of words in a row to catch up on...

1) You currently have survivor win con or whatever, but you need to be alive when all aliens are dead.
   1a) if you get a proxy, they can act in your stead for that same win con
        ----QUESTION: Do they need to fufill their own win con still to win? Or just your win con? Or do they literally change nothing and you just get a puppet or whatever?

Their wincon does not change. If they're town, their town wincon still applies to them. If they're scum, their scum wincon still applies. Make sense?

2) Each night, alive or dead, 1/3 of the population will get this petition thingy giving them a chance to sign.
QUESTIONS:
a) Assuming you get your 4 signs, does it continue to send and make a QT each night for the rest of the game. Like tonight, you get 3 more. Tomorrow night it sends again or no?
b) You need 4 TOTAL signs right? like not 4 in a night?
c) To the best of your knowledge, there is ABSOLUTELY NO RAMIFICATIONS AT ALL for signing the document?

a) To the best of my knowledge, based on the wording Ash gave me, it's an "every night" thing, for the entirety of the game, regardless of my status (dead/alive)

b) Correct - signatures carry over night to night. But the number needed is unique signatures (so if you signed last night, but were brought in again tonight and signed again, that wouldn't matter)

c) This is correct.

3) If you get 4 signs then you get the ability to ask someone to be a proxy.
QUESTIONS:
a) How are you going to know who to ask if you never know who is in the groups?
b) Furthing on that, since you said that you can still ask someone after death.... like you wouldn't even be able to ask in thread for someone to speak up... so just anything on how that works at all?
c) How many times can you ask. I.E. - if tomorrow you get "3 more" and now you have 4. Can you just start cycling through people until you hopefully find a yes? or is it x shot?
d) how does the question of "will you be my proxy queen" get sent? do you submit to Ash? is it in game thread?

a) This was the question I brought up last night - because you're right, I don't have an answer to that. I asked Ash, and his response was ... I'll let you know when you need to know ... (obv not directly quoting words, but meaning is verbatim)

b) I assume, the way it's worded, that I submit the invite in my QT at night (it's a 1-shot action, that activates when I have 4 signatures). I think this is what you're asking?

c) Whoops, think I answered this in b) It's a 1-shot action. I can ask just once.

d) No clue. From the way it's worded, I submit "Ask Player X to join the Delusional Humanists" in my QT, and Ash does/handles the rest.

4) You opened your claim with making your "case" on WCD, which I do not agree with at all, but whatever that is not the point. Everything you did actually does line up with having the mindset of trying to find skum. At first I think it didn't, but thinking it over, it makes sense. You look into you top likely case, post it first, then post up the claim and then point out that you ofc want skum to get lynched. All that is fine... here are the issues.
a) I do not think you are gonna get skum out of WCD here, which of course is just clashing opinions, but makes me weary of your "read".
b) If your win con is "be alive when all the Aliens are dead", and as you said you believe there are Town and Skum Aliens... how do you see this claim working out for you? Real question, I did rough math, but I am sure you did it better before you claimed. Like on the ven diagram of things, I don't think that works in your favor right? Potential roles that would not want to sign your thing, unless I am missing something, include [Town Alien, Skum Alien, or like non-Alien skum]. Players on the possible sign list would be [Non-Alien Town.... and others?]. So yeah, I guess the question is... because you were not close enough to lynch to feel pressure at the time of claim... why not hold onto this info for a while? What did you gain here?
c) If I understand how this all works... which I probably don't... you are essentially just asking for help on the promise that you are tellilng the truth here right? Like there is absolutely no gain or loss for players that sign and/or agree to proxy you?

a) First, I strongly suggest you re-read the entire game thread, as I did posting everything up, not just isolating her. The level to which she's scummy is off the charts. Like, it's ridiculous. Not to mention I believe she has a tell. But as you say, different opinions. Fine. Just strongly, STRONGLY disagree.

b) I gained nothing. I don't think it matters. I've had/am having this discussion with Ash. I have no point in this game. I'm not hunting scum. I'm not hunting town. I don't know exactly who it is that I want to lynch, and there's no way for me to find out. Nobody plays to their "race". They play to their alignment. So I can't get any true reads that actually matter in any meaningful way whatsoever. I have no goal for which I can actively pursue. The point of the the claim then, was that given town is behind and has seen two Aliens flipped - you better believe that *I* believe my best chance to win at this point is to hunt for the scum Aliens. I'm not a normal Survivor. I don't want to support the "winning" team. Two Town Aliens are dead. Might there be more? Sure. Probably even. But town is behind and there are almost certainly scum Aliens out there. That's where my focus is.

c) I'm not even asking for help. If I'm not lynched at this point, I encourage anybody in the QT at night NOT to sign the petition. Not because it does any harm (it doesn't), but because as faust says, there's simply no reason to. If I'm lynched though, yeah, obviously I want ya'll to sign it. My only chance of meeting my own wincon at that point is if I can ask for a Proxy.

Sorry that is a lot and apologies if you embedded them in you thought process, but if I could just get some quick yes/no clarifications it would settle my mind a lot.

lmk if there's something more I can clarify/answer.

[Swowl]

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

You are scum, but I'm not going to have a debate with you about it.

Signing doesn't = death, but that's what you wanted to frame it as when you shot LL knowing he was signing it last night. That's cool. You can lynch me, I'll flip Anthony Walker, A Delusional Humanist. At night, the meeting QT will still be generated, and the petition will still go out. Everything I've claimed will happen will continue to happen. People will probably sign it in secret, just to prove you wrong (and me right) because that's how people are. Tomorrow, you'll get lynched, and you'll flip scum - clearing everything I've stated as being true, as I'll flip what I've claimed, and you'll flip whatever flavor of scum you actually are.

Wow...you are the delusional humanist. I am not scum. Not even a little bit. Your certainty is laughable, but also infuriating because the only way for me to prove that you're wrong is to die, and then I am dead and you win and you don't even care that you are completely mischaracterizing me.

If you think anyone would sign to prove me wrong you are WAAAYYY overestimating my value to anyone in this game.

Even your scenario doesn't make sense.  If Lalight was killed because he signed, Eddie is just as likely to have done it. You zeroing in on me says something else is going on here.

I believe her paranoia here is that it was the signing itself that killed LaLight.

[mail-mi]

vote: Didds

Not liking her reaction to Galz's scumread on her, seems over-the-top and not like town Didds.

[Swowl]

Why shouldn't they?

Because if you're telling the truth, then it doesn't help anyone, and there's always the chance that you're lying and something more sinister happens when you sign the petition. So the smart thing is to not sign it.

Well, they might sign it after he flips, if his claim.

Do you think Galz is the best lynch for today?

If he flips third party, there's still no guarantee that he didn't lie.

I don't know, not necessarily. But we can definitely do worse.

do you think he is skum?

[shraeye]

Galz is still a survivor in the alignment sense

The role Galz claimed is not survivor

[shraeye]

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Did you figure this out before or after you started the day by voting for EFWH for no apparent reasom?

[WestCoastDidds]

Galz is still a survivor in the alignment sense

The role Galz claimed is not survivor

What is it?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.6:

Galzria (3): EFHW, 2.7, WCD
2.7 (1): DatSwan
skip (2): shraeye, cayvie
WCD (3): Galzria, uncle, mail-mi
uncleeurope (1): faust

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, skip

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[Swowl]

vote: eddie

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: Didds

Not liking her reaction to Galz's scumread on her, seems over-the-top and not like town Didds.

Because Galz is providing an explanation that we can scrutinize and discuss? Two or three people have asked about why he is so convinced I’m scum, but he’s not answering. How am I supposed to respond to that? He’s ignoring them and doubling down on his opinion of me that isn’t based in any reality. I’m not entirely sure what that makes him, but it’s not pro-town.

[Swowl]

yo galz - is there a situation where you get put into the hood grouping at night? like can you ever be apart or see what people say there?

[Galzria]

yo galz - is there a situation where you get put into the hood grouping at night? like can you ever be apart or see what people say there?

It’s purely random, so yes.

[Swowl]

if someone signs can they be grouped again?

[Swowl]

yo galz - is there a situation where you get put into the hood grouping at night? like can you ever be apart or see what people say there?

It’s purely random, so yes.

and not to be a dick - but have you confirmed this? as in this is not an assumption, it is clearly stated?

[Galzria]

yo galz - is there a situation where you get put into the hood grouping at night? like can you ever be apart or see what people say there?

It’s purely random, so yes.

and not to be a dick - but have you confirmed this? as in this is not an assumption, it is clearly stated?

if someone signs can they be grouped again?

It is purely random, so again, yes.

[Swowl]

eddie - could the players in the signing thing talk openly with one and other?

[Uncleeurope]

eddie - could the players in the signing thing talk openly with one and other?

Yup.

We also weren’t told who was in the group, which meant if any of us decided not to talk we would never learn of their existence.

[Swowl]

eddie - could the players in the signing thing talk openly with one and other?

Yup.

We also weren’t told who was in the group, which meant if any of us decided not to talk we would never learn of their existence.

if you sign do you have to publicly sign in that thread?

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, and cannot undo.

[Swowl]

Yup, and cannot undo.

koolio. what is your take about Galz and the claim?

[Uncleeurope]

I see no reason to kill him today.

[faust]

Between not offering extra claims that makes his role make more sense, and not explaining his WCD read, I can only conclude that Galzria is playing an anti-town game, and needs to be lynched.

Vote: Galzria

[Galzria]

Between not offering extra claims that makes his role make more sense, and not explaining his WCD read, I can only conclude that Galzria is playing an anti-town game, and needs to be lynched.

Vote: Galzria

Sure Faust, let me make a whole bunch of shit up to appease your sense of “I-know-betterment”.

I’m unlynchable with 6 signee’s. Infinitely bullet proof with 8. With just 1, I can dayvig twice per day! With 2 I can cop everybody at once, and with 3 the whole game becomes one infinitely long single day with no night phases at all!

Apparently you knowing information about what other people receive in their PM’s is just a magical power you have that nobody else in the world has. While you’re busy magically knowing all of these things, care to divulge who the scum team is so Town can just lynch them and win? Include the remaining Town Aliens if they exist too - maybe scum will be nice enough to kill them for me in the process.

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it. Don’t put the onus of lying to appease your ego on me. I’m not going to claim crap that I don’t have and aren’t a part of my role just to make you happy.

[cayvie]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

[Galzria]

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.

[Uncleeurope]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

Yup.

[faust]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

How do you know that?

[faust]

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it.

I thought that's what I was doing.

I would also appreciate if you stopped with the personal attacks against me.

Here are the facts about your claim: The number of people you claimed were in the QT did not match the actual numbers. One might argue that someone just kept quiet, but that's already something you have to buy into. You said yourself that it doesn't make sense that you don't know who signed, but later get to pick among them, but you never clarified. In the meantime, I have received an answer from ashersky on another matter, so I know you're no longer waiting. You would have us believe that your role would make another player make not one, but two choices that are completely and utterly inconsequential to them.

I think that looks like a fakeclaim.

[faust]

And before anyone asks, no, I have no idea what the real role is. Obviously the QT stuff is real. Could that be something that the mafia creates? Absolutely. Could Galzria still be self-aligned as claimed? For sure. But I definitely think there is something he's lying about because he knows that if we knew it, people would be less open towards letting him live.

[faust]

Forgot other point in my "this doesn't make sense" list: Galzria is willing to self-hammer which goes completely against his stated wincon.

[faust]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

[Galzria]

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it.

I thought that's what I was doing.

I would also appreciate if you stopped with the personal attacks against me.

Here are the facts about your claim: The number of people you claimed were in the QT did not match the actual numbers. One might argue that someone just kept quiet, but that's already something you have to buy into. You said yourself that it doesn't make sense that you don't know who signed, but later get to pick among them, but you never clarified. In the meantime, I have received an answer from ashersky on another matter, so I know you're no longer waiting. You would have us believe that your role would make another player make not one, but two choices that are completely and utterly inconsequential to them.

I think that looks like a fakeclaim.

First, the argument that the numbers in the QT  didn’t match my claim. So... I would lie about that confirmable piece of information because...? yeah. Real smart of me. Or, you know, the more logical explanation is that somebody didn’t post (lazy or scum, who knows).

Second, bolded, I did clarify. You didn’t bother to circle back to that point though and ask me why I hadn’t yet (as it’s clear you missed it), did you? ... - or you’re just choosing to ignore it. Whichever.

And yes. That’s what I would have you believe, beause that’s what my role is. Again, you want that to be the basis for your choosing to vote me - go for it. But don’t give me a crap line about how “Galz not offering extra claims that make his role make sense” somehow makes me something I’m not. I’m not attacking you. I’m calling out crap reasoning for what it is. I’m not going to lie about my role just to appease you believing that there must be more there when there isn’t.

[faust]

First, the argument that the numbers in the QT  didn’t match my claim. So... I would lie about that confirmable piece of information because...? yeah. Real smart of me. Or, you know, the more logical explanation is that somebody didn’t post (lazy or scum, who knows).

Obviously, the answer is - because you didn't know better. Like for example the recruitment to the QT was actually targeted, you targeted 4 players, it failed on one without your knowledge.

Second, bolded, I did clarify. You didn’t bother to circle back to that point though and ask me why I hadn’t yet (as it’s clear you missed it), did you? ... - or you’re just choosing to ignore it. Whichever.

Oh yeah, you did answer (when pressed about it, not on your own). And the answer is... ashersky didn't clarify. Which is funny because all the questions I asked about my role received clear and unambiguous answers from ashersky, even though they could have been answered by "you'll see when you get there". I don't believe that ashersky has a double standard in modding.

[Uncleeurope]

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it.

I thought that's what I was doing.

I would also appreciate if you stopped with the personal attacks against me.

Here are the facts about your claim: The number of people you claimed were in the QT did not match the actual numbers. One might argue that someone just kept quiet, but that's already something you have to buy into. You said yourself that it doesn't make sense that you don't know who signed, but later get to pick among them, but you never clarified. In the meantime, I have received an answer from ashersky on another matter, so I know you're no longer waiting. You would have us believe that your role would make another player make not one, but two choices that are completely and utterly inconsequential to them.

I think that looks like a fakeclaim.

If Galz is scum who can create neighborhoods, why say the wrong number for no reason? His claim works just as well with 3 as it does with 4. Why commit to 4 when it is amfactually incorrect.

In most worlds we had a silent stalker.

And if we had a silent stalker, they are likely not town.

So if we had a mafia silent stalker, while Galz is mafia, then that silent stalker would know what signing/not signing does and would want to influence the group appropriately. And would therefor not be a silent stalker.

The highest likelihood occurrence is the silent stalker is scum who had no idea what signing/not signing did, and wanted to gather intel without revealing that they had such intel.

At least as near as I can tell.

The chance that Galz is mafia relies on too many oddities for me.

There are better places to vote.

[faust]

If Galz is scum who can create neighborhoods, why say the wrong number for no reason? His claim works just as well with 3 as it does with 4. Why commit to 4 when it is amfactually incorrect.

I detailed one reason, here's another - the number actually depends on other things, like "half of all humans", "half of all townies" etc., but Galzria did not want to give extra information about that stuff and so he made up something else that would hopefully yield the same number.

Which player in the game do you think would stay silent in a QT like that?

[Galzria]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

Forgot other point in my "this doesn't make sense" list: Galzria is willing to self-hammer which goes completely against his stated wincon.

Have you bothered to read the game, or are you just throwing stuff out there?

I’m willing to self hammer because no, my being alive generally has little impact on my ability to win if I can assign a Proxy, incidentally something that I believe will happen. But somehow this whole thing (including my willingness to self hammer) makes much more sense to you if I’m scum. Because anything about my unforced claim makes sense if I’m scum. Like, honestly, even you can’t put together a narrative where my actions make more sense as scum than as what I’ve claimed to be. The truth is, you just don’t agree with the way I’ve approached my role and want to punish me for it. And hey, that’s cool. Like I’ve made abundantly clear - no problem being the lynch today.

Second, I care about my reads at this point beause there have been two Town Aliens killed already. As I’ve explained numerous times, this leads me to believe that my best chance to find more Aliens is by lynching scum. I could certainly be wrong, but I doubt the scum team is 100% Human (and if they are and I should be hunting only Town, then that’s on me... and Ash, because I have no way of knowing) - and so it seems much more worthwhile for me to hunt scum at this point than to give little cares about who gets lynched as you’re suggesting.

I mean, sure, if I had a way to “Alien Hunt” similar to scum-hunting, then sure, I probably wouldn’t care. But as I don’t, I must play the game state - and the game state is that I’m much better served looking for scum-Aliens right now than caring about a Town-Aliens that might still exist.

[Uncleeurope]

If Galz is scum who can create neighborhoods, why say the wrong number for no reason? His claim works just as well with 3 as it does with 4. Why commit to 4 when it is amfactually incorrect.

I detailed one reason, here's another - the number actually depends on other things, like "half of all humans", "half of all townies" etc., but Galzria did not want to give extra information about that stuff and so he made up something else that would hopefully yield the same number.

Which player in the game do you think would stay silent in a QT like that?

Would telling a bold lie be better than revealing that info?

I doubt it.

Also, no idea. I don’t know anything.

And would you say Galz is more likely scum than third party here?

Like, what are we talking here? 70/30? 60/40?

[faust]

I’m willing to self hammer because no, my being alive generally has little impact on my ability to win if I can assign a Proxy, incidentally something that I believe will happen.

Seems to me that if you need one of 2 people to survive, and one of them dies, your chances of winning drop by 50%. Not exactly what I would call "little impact".

Like, honestly, even you can’t put together a narrative where my actions make more sense as scum than as what I’ve claimed to be.

Well, it's not on me to put forward a convincing narrative, but on you.

The truth is, you just don’t agree with the way I’ve approached my role and want to punish me for it.

That's not the truth, it's a lie, and if you believe it is the truth, you should vote for me, because that would mean I'm scum.

[faust]

And would you say Galz is more likely scum than third party here?

Like, what are we talking here? 70/30? 60/40?

I don't thikn it's a distinction that matters. He could be mafia. He could be SK. He could be Survivor. I have no idea how to judge that. I know that he spent most of his time D1 voting for town, and I know that what he claims about his role doesn't add up. That's enough reason for me to lynch him.

[faust]

Also, no idea. I don’t know anything.

Also, what a cop-out. If you don't know anything and have no opinions, you might as well sheep me.

[Galzria]

I’m willing to self hammer because no, my being alive generally has little impact on my ability to win if I can assign a Proxy, incidentally something that I believe will happen.

Seems to me that if you need one of 2 people to survive, and one of them dies, your chances of winning drop by 50%. Not exactly what I would call "little impact".

Like, honestly, even you can’t put together a narrative where my actions make more sense as scum than as what I’ve claimed to be.

Well, it's not on me to put forward a convincing narrative, but on you.

The truth is, you just don’t agree with the way I’ve approached my role and want to punish me for it.

That's not the truth, it's a lie, and if you believe it is the truth, you should vote for me, because that would mean I'm scum.

You’re higher on my scummy list, yes. Not for any of this though. But because of the way you’ve leaned into a particular overplayed meta of yours too much (in my opinion). But you’re not the scummiest person, and not the person I would put the most value on flipping scum. And lying (in it’s general form, not talking about here specifically) - well, that has no impact on your alignment whatsoever.

[Galzria]

And would you say Galz is more likely scum than third party here?

Like, what are we talking here? 70/30? 60/40?

I don't thikn it's a distinction that matters. He could be mafia. He could be SK. He could be Survivor. I have no idea how to judge that. I know that he spent most of his time D1 voting for town, and I know that what he claims about his role doesn't add up. That's enough reason for me to lynch him.

There is nothing about my role that “doesn’t add up”, except for exactly the number of players that choose to post in the QT last night vs what I’ve claimed were present - which is an illogical claim to make on my end against a verifiable result and has a SIGNIFICANTLY more logical explanation that you’re choosing to dismiss.

In your world, it’s more likely I made up a number against a verifiable claim than the idea that somebody didn’t post in the QT (due to laziness, being scum, or other). That’s ridiculous. You’re ridiculous.

[faust]

You’re ridiculous.

But sure, you don't make personal attacks 

[Galzria]

You’re ridiculous.

But sure, you don't make personal attacks 

I stand by that one. You’re ridiculous.

[faust]

You’re ridiculous.

But sure, you don't make personal attacks 

I stand by that one. You’re ridiculous.

Cool. Need I remind you that at some point in your life you signed a civility pledge?

[Galzria]

You’re ridiculous.

But sure, you don't make personal attacks 

I stand by that one. You’re ridiculous.

Cool. Need I remind you that at some point in your life you signed a civility pledge?

Point? I’m not being uncivil. I’m stating that the scenario you’re putting forward as being most likely is ridiculous.

[faust]

You’re ridiculous.

But sure, you don't make personal attacks 

I stand by that one. You’re ridiculous.

Cool. Need I remind you that at some point in your life you signed a civility pledge?

Point? I’m not being uncivil. I’m stating that the scenario you’re putting forward as being most likely is ridiculous.

No, you are stating that I, as a person, am ridiculous.

[Galzria]

Faust, I apologize if you’re feeling attacked. I personally feel that the scenario that you’ve put forth is ridiculous - ridiculous used here to mean “silly”. The logic you’re following, the narrative that you’re suggesting exists, just doesn’t make any sense to me. You’re suggesting that I’ve lied about something that, regardless of my alignment, makes no sense for me to lie about - a very easy and verifiable fact from multiple sources. Lying about something like that, as Town, as scum, as SK, or as Survivor simply seems silly, and the premise that you’re putting forward that I’ve done so seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Not only because I know the truth of my role, but also because...  c’mon... how does that even make sense?

Regardless, even if I personally feel that it is ridiculous, you clearly do not. So I’m sorry for putting my belief squarely on you, and I’m sorry that my calling you ridiculous was received as an attack. I meant it more to express my feelings on your premise, and to lighten the mood - I would also say Didd’s fetish with Owls is ridiculous, but I wouldn’t change that about her! I love ridiculous! - my attempt at lightening this way obviously was ill received, and I’m sorry.

[faust]

Faust, I apologize if you’re feeling attacked. I personally feel that the scenario that you’ve put forth is ridiculous - ridiculous used here to mean “silly”. The logic you’re following, the narrative that you’re suggesting exists, just doesn’t make any sense to me. You’re suggesting that I’ve lied about something that, regardless of my alignment, makes no sense for me to lie about - a very easy and verifiable fact from multiple sources. Lying about something like that, as Town, as scum, as SK, or as Survivor simply seems silly, and the premise that you’re putting forward that I’ve done so seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Not only because I know the truth of my role, but also because...  c’mon... how does that even make sense?

Regardless, even if I personally feel that it is ridiculous, you clearly do not. So I’m sorry for putting my belief squarely on you, and I’m sorry that my calling you ridiculous was received as an attack. I meant it more to express my feelings on your premise, and to lighten the mood - I would also say Didd’s fetish with Owls is ridiculous, but I wouldn’t change that about her! I love ridiculous! - my attempt at lightening this way obviously was ill received, and I’m sorry.

Thank you for the apology. No hard feelings.

I don't know what's going on with your role, and the possibilities are endless, so I can't think them all through. I've put forward scenarios where you might say the wrong number, not because I think that these are what happened necessarily, but because they show that something like that could have happened. I find it difficult to believe that any player in this game, as any alignment, would receive an invitation to a neighborhood without more explanation and choose to not participate. Staying silent could be even more incriminating for scum than talking, they wouldn't know that noone knows they're in the neighborhood.

[Swowl]

First, the argument that the numbers in the QT  didn’t match my claim. So... I would lie about that confirmable piece of information because...? yeah. Real smart of me. Or, you know, the more logical explanation is that somebody didn’t post (lazy or scum, who knows).

Obviously, the answer is - because you didn't know better. Like for example the recruitment to the QT was actually targeted, you targeted 4 players, it failed on one without your knowledge.

Second, bolded, I did clarify. You didn’t bother to circle back to that point though and ask me why I hadn’t yet (as it’s clear you missed it), did you? ... - or you’re just choosing to ignore it. Whichever.

Oh yeah, you did answer (when pressed about it, not on your own). And the answer is... ashersky didn't clarify. Which is funny because all the questions I asked about my role received clear and unambiguous answers from ashersky, even though they could have been answered by "you'll see when you get there". I don't believe that ashersky has a double standard in modding.

Clarification from a guy watching outside the ring - op says he won’t answer certain shit. And i can confirm that is true.

[Galzria]

Assume then, as you do, that there’s something I’m not saying about my role (and there isn’t, nor am I going to lie and make something up): Do you believe, given the verifiable parts of my claim thusfar, and given the unverified parts of my claim that I’ve made, that there’s a narrative that makes sense for me to be scum? Unforced claim. Willing to lynch myself. Weird af role that has an amount of detail provided that would seem crazy to have completely made up - and has verifiable bits...

Sure, I get you believe I’m not revealing everything. And it’s entirely your choice to have that belief. But I struggle to see where, even if that were true, I would be scum (and not just, like, a more dangerous version of what I’ve claimed). For me, what I particularly don’t like is that you’re holding that over me when I HAVE revealed everything... so you put me in an impossible situation. But that’s a different matter entirely.

[Swowl]

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.

Do you feel like if i read you it would read like you playing to a town win con?

[Galzria]

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.

Do you feel like if i read you it would read like you playing to a town win con?

I think you would read that I was weirdly disengaged D1. Definitely not playing towards a Town wincon. Maybe scum. Maybe other. Unknown.

I would hope that D2 would shed light on why my play was off-tilt D1. And I would hope that you read that I genuinely wanted to hunt scum at this time.

So yeah. Right now? Today? Day 2? Yes. And if between now and when Day 3 begins, if no Scum Aliens flip, then continued yes - working towards a Town wincon. If we saw a scum Alien flip though, I wouldn’t begrudge you being uncertain to what goals I was playing. I honestly wouldn’t know myself!

[faust]

Assume then, as you do, that there’s something I’m not saying about my role (and there isn’t, nor am I going to lie and make something up): Do you believe, given the verifiable parts of my claim thusfar, and given the unverified parts of my claim that I’ve made, that there’s a narrative that makes sense for me to be scum? Unforced claim. Willing to lynch myself. Weird af role that has an amount of detail provided that would seem crazy to have completely made up - and has verifiable bits...

Sure, I get you believe I’m not revealing everything. And it’s entirely your choice to have that belief. But I struggle to see where, even if that were true, I would be scum (and not just, like, a more dangerous version of what I’ve claimed). For me, what I particularly don’t like is that you’re holding that over me when I HAVE revealed everything... so you put me in an impossible situation. But that’s a different matter entirely.

I believe that you could be scum (as in, mafia-scum), yes. But it also doesn't matter. I believe that you're not telling us everything, and regardless of whether you're traditional scum or not that is reason enough. You're a threat and other scum certainly won't nightkill you.

Claim wasn't all that unforced either, given that you were that main wagon at the time.

[Galzria]

Assume then, as you do, that there’s something I’m not saying about my role (and there isn’t, nor am I going to lie and make something up): Do you believe, given the verifiable parts of my claim thusfar, and given the unverified parts of my claim that I’ve made, that there’s a narrative that makes sense for me to be scum? Unforced claim. Willing to lynch myself. Weird af role that has an amount of detail provided that would seem crazy to have completely made up - and has verifiable bits...

Sure, I get you believe I’m not revealing everything. And it’s entirely your choice to have that belief. But I struggle to see where, even if that were true, I would be scum (and not just, like, a more dangerous version of what I’ve claimed). For me, what I particularly don’t like is that you’re holding that over me when I HAVE revealed everything... so you put me in an impossible situation. But that’s a different matter entirely.

I believe that you could be scum (as in, mafia-scum), yes. But it also doesn't matter. I believe that you're not telling us everything, and regardless of whether you're traditional scum or not that is reason enough. You're a threat and other scum certainly won't nightkill you.

Claim wasn't all that unforced either, given that you were that main wagon at the time.

EFHW had the same number votes that I did, and we were both L-3, with 5 days to deadline - with the most recent two votes made shifting direction towards Skip. You and I clearly disagree on what “the main wagon” and “unforced” mean.

[shraeye]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

Yeah, come join on on this skip business

[shraeye]

I think you would read that I was weirdly disengaged D1.

Galz, you're always disengaged on D1, so it's not weird.

[Galzria]

Swan & Mail-Mi, as my top two towniest people, what are your thoughts on Skip? Space, your thoughts (in general)?

I could be convinced to vote skip. I generally Town read Shraeye, and while I think Cayvie is scum, I think she’s SK, so I think I trust her to be “hunting” scum here. Skip is in my middle ground, but is a concession I could make over WCD.

[faust]

Swan & Mail-Mi, as my top two towniest people, what are your thoughts on Skip? Space, your thoughts (in general)?

Why are those two towny anyways?

[Galzria]

I think you would read that I was weirdly disengaged D1.

Galz, you're always disengaged on D1, so it's not weird.

I disagree. The last non-BM game I was in, iZombie, I had 19 posts Day 1 out of 294 total. With 14 people in the game that’s an average of 21. That’s hardly disengaged compared to the average person.

[Galzria]

Swan & Mail-Mi, as my top two towniest people, what are your thoughts on Skip? Space, your thoughts (in general)?

Why are those two towny anyways?

Because they’ve reacted to various things in townie ways. If you want what I feel to be specific examples, you’ll need to wait until tomorrow when it’s not almost 4:00am my time and I’m at my computer (which has my detailed notes). But if you’re expecting more than “because that’s how I’ve read them”, expect to be disappointed. I don’t have the ability to do anything more than form opinions based on what people post.

[WestCoastDidds]

I would also say Didd’s fetish with Owls is ridiculous, but I wouldn’t change that about her! I love ridiculous!

Dude! Every game would be dramatically better if everyone were required to post at least 3 owl memes. Dramatically. Better.

I would also accept any other cute or disarmingly charming animal, but probably not reptiles.

[EFHW]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

This point by faust got my attention. Why are you scumhunting, Galz?

[EFHW]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

This point by faust got my attention. Why are you scumhunting, Galz?

Having read further, I see that you think there must be aliens among the scum. I think alien/human was probably assigned randomly.

There could be a delusional human faction. Seeing as we were given a free IC, I think there must be pretty significant threats against town. More than a mafia team and a weakened vig. Unless the mafia team is unusually large, I guess.

[mail-mi]

Swan & Mail-Mi, as my top two towniest people, what are your thoughts on Skip? Space, your thoughts (in general)?

I could be convinced to vote skip. I generally Town read Shraeye, and while I think Cayvie is scum, I think she’s SK, so I think I trust her to be “hunting” scum here. Skip is in my middle ground, but is a concession I could make over WCD.

I would have to look him over again, because right now I'm pretty null on him. Would be willing to move over.

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

[faust]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

[mail-mi]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

[faust]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

Seriously though, what makes you think that Galzria intends to help town? How is he currently helping town?

[mail-mi]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

Seriously though, what makes you think that Galzria intends to help town? How is he currently helping town?

He said it himself. He's looking for scum aliens right now. We can always lynch him later, if we need to.

[faust]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

Seriously though, what makes you think that Galzria intends to help town? How is he currently helping town?

He said it himself. He's looking for scum aliens right now. We can always lynch him later, if we need to.

I mean, yes he said it, but anyone would say that; why do you believe him?

[mail-mi]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

Seriously though, what makes you think that Galzria intends to help town? How is he currently helping town?

He said it himself. He's looking for scum aliens right now. We can always lynch him later, if we need to.

I mean, yes he said it, but anyone would say that; why do you believe him?

I believe his claim, it sounds like something Ash would do and as he said it wasn't forced. Yeah, maybe it's a scum move but for now I believe him.

[WestCoastDidds]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

Yeah, come join on on this skip business

What’s the story with Skip?

[shraeye]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

Seriously though, what makes you think that Galzria intends to help town? How is he currently helping town?

He said it himself. He's looking for scum aliens right now. We can always lynch him later, if we need to.

Mail-mi, this is just too naive.  In a suspicious sort of way.  I still don't want to vote Galz, but I'm more and more interested in mailmi

[mail-mi]

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Yeah, we should just lynch people who will state that they're not helping town! Scumhunting can be so easy!

Seriously though, what makes you think that Galzria intends to help town? How is he currently helping town?

He said it himself. He's looking for scum aliens right now. We can always lynch him later, if we need to.

Mail-mi, this is just too naive.  In a suspicious sort of way.  I still don't want to vote Galz, but I'm more and more interested in mailmi

Galz has claimed some sort of survivor variant who can win with town. Nothing in his claim has struck scum bells or liar bells in my head, especially given his responses to doubts on his claim. As of right now, other scum are more dangerous than this third party (especially since Galz can't kill) and so I am on the lookout for those scum. If and when new information comes to light, I will reexamine Galz, but for now he's off the table for me.

[EFHW]

Survivors always say they want to help town, and they mean it. But when it comes down to it, they'll switch sides to achieve their wincon.

[mail-mi]

Survivors always say they want to help town, and they mean it. But when it comes down to it, they'll switch sides to achieve their wincon.

and right now, we're not down to it. Also if there's scum Aliens, siding with scum (before that alien(s) is dead) is actively against Galz's wincon.

[EFHW]

Survivors always say they want to help town, and they mean it. But when it comes down to it, they'll switch sides to achieve their wincon.

and right now, we're not down to it. Also if there's scum Aliens, siding with scum (before that alien(s) is dead) is actively against Galz's wincon.

But he has no idea who are aliens and who aren't. Unless someone wants to claim flavor cop. My point is that he will follow his wincon, not town's. That makes him inherently untrustworthy.

BTW, my personal theory is that he is one of a faction, and the other member is Didds.

[mail-mi]

Survivors always say they want to help town, and they mean it. But when it comes down to it, they'll switch sides to achieve their wincon.

and right now, we're not down to it. Also if there's scum Aliens, siding with scum (before that alien(s) is dead) is actively against Galz's wincon.

But he has no idea who are aliens and who aren't. Unless someone wants to claim flavor cop. My point is that he will follow his wincon, not town's. That makes him inherently untrustworthy.

BTW, my personal theory is that he is one of a faction, and the other member is Didds.

But by simple math, the more town humans that flip, the more likely there is to be an Alien(s) within scum. So the more he sides with scum, the more likely he is to be going against his wincon. Perhaps when an alien Scum flips, we should lynch him, but for now there are better places for our votes.

BTW, why don't you join us on Didds then? Either way you are lynching someone you think is nontown,

[shraeye]

Survivors always say they want to help town, and they mean it. But when it comes down to it, they'll switch sides to achieve their wincon.

Galz is still not a survivor.

[EFHW]

Survivors always say they want to help town, and they mean it. But when it comes down to it, they'll switch sides to achieve their wincon.

Galz is still not a survivor.

You still haven't explained what you mean.

[EFHW]

BTW, why don't you join us on Didds then? Either way you are lynching someone you think is nontown,

That is a kind invitation. I will keep it in mind.

[Uncleeurope]

BTW, why don't you join us on Didds then? Either way you are lynching someone you think is nontown,

That is a kind invitation. I will keep it in mind.

This is just how Shraeye behaves without raerae being able to yank information out of him.

I assume he means that Galz shouldn’t be called a survivor since he wants to kill specific players so he will always have alterior motives.

[Uncleeurope]

Ehhh, quoted the wrong post.

[Swowl]

I think you would read that I was weirdly disengaged D1.

Galz, you're always disengaged on D1, so it's not weird.

I disagree. The last non-BM game I was in, iZombie, I had 19 posts Day 1 out of 294 total. With 14 people in the game that’s an average of 21. That’s hardly disengaged compared to the average person.

right but I mean 90% come in during the last 5% of day in most games I play with you. it doesn't matter, but yeah also to back up the point I do not read you as disengaged day 1  in this game I read you as normal. but to your point, given the content you speak on day one, I can see how the "IDK how to get into it" concept is a thing.

[Swowl]

I do not want to lynch Galz or WCD. but I will lynch Galz before WCD.

Galz - I actually believe you are the survivor variant. But I believe WCD is town, which means you are the better choice if I have to choose. Will you not push eddie with me? if not will you push anyone else? I will gladly sheep you on like anyone but her or myself at this point.

[Swowl]

also your previous question about skip - answer is - I have no clue. Never played with them. limited interactions, and I don't know what to dial in as towny or skummy.

[SpaceAnemone]

I got about 200 posts behind because work exploded. I'm all caught up, but now it's past bed time.

I feel like Galz's claim gave a lot of people a chance to react, which is useful. Where's e, though? (I know, right? I'm one to talk...)

[Uncleeurope]

I do not want to lynch Galz or WCD. but I will lynch Galz before WCD.

Galz - I actually believe you are the survivor variant. But I believe WCD is town, which means you are the better choice if I have to choose. Will you not push eddie with me? if not will you push anyone else? I will gladly sheep you on like anyone but her or myself at this point.

Why in the wide world of heck am I evil, though?

[ashersky]

I remember the earliest months of rebuilding.  So many lost homes and buildings and infrastructure.  Seeing your hometown shopping mall in ruins like a scene out of a movie was surreal.  But it was the things the movies gloss over: the long-forgotten dead bodies to be discovered and buried.  The effect on the environment of constant war with off-world tech.  Sure, the reduced population led to some reforestation, a slight dent in the climate change phenomenon.  But at what cost?  Horse flies flourished, but other animals went extinct.  Why?

The alien transmissions continue to interfere with radio, television, and communications signals sporadically.  Who knows is there are any Espheni left out in space?  But if there are, I hope they turn ---

武士、この戦争はすぐに終わります。 私たちの勝利は輝かしいでしょう。 人間の降参があるまで、輸送問題のため口糧は半減されます。 地元の動物を自由に食べて、食事を補ってください。 フクロウと呼ばれる有翼動物は特に美味しいです。 エスフェニーに栄光を！

--- off those transmitters some day.

—Diary Entry, a day during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni

Vote Count 2.7:

Galzria (4): EFHW, 2.7, WCD, faust
skip (2): shraeye, cayvie
WCD (3): Galzria, uncle, mail-mi
uncleeurope (1): DatSwan

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, skip

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[mail-mi]

武士、この戦争はすぐに終わります。 私たちの勝利は輝かしいでしょう。 人間の降参があるまで、輸送問題のため口糧は半減されます。 地元の動物を自由に食べて、食事を補ってください。 フクロウと呼ばれる有翼動物は特に美味しいです。 エスフェニーに栄光を！

"Samurai, this war will soon be over. Our victory will be brilliant. Until humans surrender, food is cut in half due to transportation problems."

[Swowl]

I do not want to lynch Galz or WCD. but I will lynch Galz before WCD.

Galz - I actually believe you are the survivor variant. But I believe WCD is town, which means you are the better choice if I have to choose. Will you not push eddie with me? if not will you push anyone else? I will gladly sheep you on like anyone but her or myself at this point.

Why in the wide world of heck am I evil, though?

honestly, I do not have a great reason.
I am not lynching WCD.
I do not want to lynch Galz.
I still don't want to lynch Cayvie.
Space is town (today at least) so that's not happening.
gap...
I don't like the way the EFHW wagon started up... so skeptical there.

That leaves...
Eddie/MailMi/E!/faust/Shraeye/Skip.

From my POE it is, in order:
E! - tried, he isn't talking. didn't get any help. can't change anything about what I have already tried.
Eddie/MailMi - trusting my gut on WCD. If I am right, that makes that wagon potentially skummy. Don't wanna lynch Galz. You pinged me skummy D1 over MailMi, so I land on you.
Skip/Shraeye - Don't know skip. Shraeye is a smig off.
faust - only reason he is even on the list is bc if Galz ever flipped red I would push for faust immediately assuming their whole convo was fabricated. But I don't think Galz is skum, so I therefore am null on faust... or even a slight town lean I suppose.

All in all - I got no good reasons. Every wagon that has been presented I hated except for pubby, who was freekin town. so yeah. I am currently torn between the safe lynch on galz (bc he either what he says or skum, but never town), and trying to lynch skum (which would have the potential downside of not being a skum lynch, and instead town, which galz will never be).

I am open to suggestions, even from you, if you are willing to look away from WCD/Space/faust and small ass gap - galz.

[Swowl]

武士、この戦争はすぐに終わります。 私たちの勝利は輝かしいでしょう。 人間の降参があるまで、輸送問題のため口糧は半減されます。 地元の動物を自由に食べて、食事を補ってください。 フクロウと呼ばれる有翼動物は特に美味しいです。 エスフェニーに栄光を！

"Samurai, this war will soon be over. Our victory will be brilliant. Until humans surrender, food is cut in half due to transportation problems."

Oh that can't possibly be important at all...

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I am still open to EFHW.

And your push on me has less reasoning behind it than mine against EFHW.

[2.71828.....]

Got a little burnt out from work made it hard to focus here.

I still like lynching Galzria. His role is different than a standard survivor which is neat, but it is neat in an anti-town direction in that he wants a certain percentage of us dead. Wanting to kill town or not-my-faction-scum is inherently scummy.

I am willing to explore other options, need to reread skip/WCD/swan to figure out why they have votes.

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

[2.71828.....]

And we can argue pros/cons about a survivor lynch all we want, but most survivor variants have pro-town stuff they can do to prove themselves useful, not here

[faust]

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

I've said this, but it seems like it got missed in the Galzria discussion - it's likely that redirection did not affect cayvie specifically, but rather all of us.

[2.71828.....]

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

I've said this, but it seems like it got missed in the Galzria discussion - it's likely that redirection did not affect cayvie specifically, but rather all of us.

That could be the case, but it seems like the impetus behind lynching EHFW was the whole idea that she was bus driven with MiX, which appears not to be the case.

So my point stands about wanting to give it a day to let the dust settle

[Uncleeurope]

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

I've said this, but it seems like it got missed in the Galzria discussion - it's likely that redirection did not affect cayvie specifically, but rather all of us.

That could be the case, but it seems like the impetus behind lynching EHFW was the whole idea that she was bus driven with MiX, which appears not to be the case.

So my point stands about wanting to give it a day to let the dust settle

That was never my reason.

I wanted to kill her day 1.

[cayvie]

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

I've said this, but it seems like it got missed in the Galzria discussion - it's likely that redirection did not affect cayvie specifically, but rather all of us.

That could be the case, but it seems like the impetus behind lynching EHFW was the whole idea that she was bus driven with MiX, which appears not to be the case.

So my point stands about wanting to give it a day to let the dust settle

That was never my reason.

I wanted to kill her day 1.

also: it wasn't totally random that i tried to vig her last night.

[shraeye]

Got a little burnt out from work made it hard to focus here.

I still like lynching Galzria. His role is different than a standard survivor which is neat, but it is neat in an anti-town direction in that he wants a certain percentage of us dead. Wanting to kill town or not-my-faction-scum is inherently scummy.

I am willing to explore other options, need to reread skip/WCD/swan to figure out why they have votes.

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

Start with skip

[mail-mi]

rereading Skip:

he spends an inordinate amount of time talking about Didds' partial claim at the beginning of the game. Possible partner there, when I'm mafia I find myself paying more attention to what my partners say. So if either flips scum, I'd want to look at the other.

*looks at available wagon options*. Sigh...

vote: pubby

Okay, so this definitely sounds like "Sigh, guess I have to join this mislynch..." Scumpoints right there.

there's some talk of a claim d1? Sounds truthful to me, a few townpoints but not many.

Oh wait, it was skip that gave me an education. I don't see what he gave me coming from a scum power (but then again, it could. WIFOM).

[mail-mi]

Final thoughts on skip: I think his play during the day has come up on the scummy side, but the role power that he has (which I received) is not a scum rolepower.

So, I am going to stay on WCD and I think skip is likely town, but I would be willing to join his lynch if it's our only option.

[Swowl]

MailMi - just double checking I did not miss something. You do in fact like "know what the education is", and it is hard to believe it is from skum right? But you are keeping that to yourself for now? Just making sure I am not overlooking it if you claimed.

[Swowl]

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

I've said this, but it seems like it got missed in the Galzria discussion - it's likely that redirection did not affect cayvie specifically, but rather all of us.

That could be the case, but it seems like the impetus behind lynching EHFW was the whole idea that she was bus driven with MiX, which appears not to be the case.

So my point stands about wanting to give it a day to let the dust settle

That was never my reason.

I wanted to kill her day 1.

another clarification question..
Eddie - when you say your reasoning to EFHW is better than my reasoning on you, you are then in fact referring to you reasons from Day 1?

[Swowl]

And we can argue pros/cons about a survivor lynch all we want, but most survivor variants have pro-town stuff they can do to prove themselves useful, not here

I mean not to be too much of WIFOM-y here... but wouldn't that reason, because of the claim and the timing of it... kind of make it more likely to be true?
Like you kind of need to pick a side here right?
If you think it is a survivor lynch we will get then, unless you think there is a role that works against us that they are not sharing, we probably wanna look elsewhere to actually lynch skum.
OTOH, if you think Galz is lying and he is himself skum... then yeah we could lynch there, or at least there would be good reason for it.

I get the reasoning behind "he is never flipping town, so it is safe". But we are down and out a bit here. If we are gonna be wrong today, we at least need to be wrong on someone that we can get some info out of for read backs. Lynching Galz would be safe today, but if he flips what he says he is... we are gonna be pretty rough off tomorrow.

[Swowl]

Got a little burnt out from work made it hard to focus here.

I still like lynching Galzria. His role is different than a standard survivor which is neat, but it is neat in an anti-town direction in that he wants a certain percentage of us dead. Wanting to kill town or not-my-faction-scum is inherently scummy.

I am willing to explore other options, need to reread skip/WCD/swan to figure out why they have votes.

Not really interested in cayvie/EFHW with the whole redirection thing that went on.

feel free to read away... but I do not believe I have any votes.

[mail-mi]

MailMi - just double checking I did not miss something. You do in fact like "know what the education is", and it is hard to believe it is from skum right? But you are keeping that to yourself for now? Just making sure I am not overlooking it if you claimed.

Yes, I know what the "education" is (or at least am 99.9% certain that skip is referring to what I received) and it is hard to believe it would come from scum.

[SpaceAnemone]

武士、この戦争はすぐに終わります。 私たちの勝利は輝かしいでしょう。 人間の降参があるまで、輸送問題のため口糧は半減されます。 地元の動物を自由に食べて、食事を補ってください。 フクロウと呼ばれる有翼動物は特に美味しいです。 エスフェニーに栄光を！

"Samurai, this war will soon be over. Our victory will be brilliant. Until humans surrender, food is cut in half due to transportation problems."

Oh that can't possibly be important at all...

Scum points to Mail-mi for not translating the whole message :-P

When I put it through Google translate, I get: "Samurai, this war will soon end. Our victory will be brilliant. Until humans surrender, food is cut in half due to transportation problems. Feel free to eat local animals and supplement your diet. The winged animals called owls are especially delicious. Glory to Spheny!"

That seems way more important and relevant to the game and its players, and I'd hate Ash's efforts to go unappreciated!

[mail-mi]

武士、この戦争はすぐに終わります。 私たちの勝利は輝かしいでしょう。 人間の降参があるまで、輸送問題のため口糧は半減されます。 地元の動物を自由に食べて、食事を補ってください。 フクロウと呼ばれる有翼動物は特に美味しいです。 エスフェニーに栄光を！

"Samurai, this war will soon be over. Our victory will be brilliant. Until humans surrender, food is cut in half due to transportation problems."

Oh that can't possibly be important at all...

Scum points to Mail-mi for not translating the whole message :-P

When I put it through Google translate, I get: "Samurai, this war will soon end. Our victory will be brilliant. Until humans surrender, food is cut in half due to transportation problems. Feel free to eat local animals and supplement your diet. The winged animals called owls are especially delicious. Glory to Spheny!"

That seems way more important and relevant to the game and its players, and I'd hate Ash's efforts to go unappreciated!

oh oops. Didds will be unhappy that the owls are getting eaten.

[Galzria]

Hahaha, aww, poor Didds.

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, it might be time for me to start asking people questions.

@Galz, early in the game (around #220), you were voting Cayvie, along with pubby and MiX. A little later one, Didds joined the wagon, though at #275 you moved off to the growing MiX wagon. Anyway, in that period where you and two flipped townies were voting Cayvie, what's your best guess about what scum was up to?

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

I think the answers will be more informative other players can please refrain from responding on behalf of the people I'm asking, at least before they've had a chance to give a complete response. I'm hoping my IC-ness will allow me to be a little bit demanding for the next 48 hours :-)

[Galzria]

Okay, it might be time for me to start asking people questions.

@Galz, early in the game (around #220), you were voting Cayvie, along with pubby and MiX. A little later one, Didds joined the wagon, though at #275 you moved off to the growing MiX wagon. Anyway, in that period where you and two flipped townies were voting Cayvie, what's your best guess about what scum was up to?

I'm using this to distract myself from the work that I'm supposed to be doing... and that I promised would be done by tomorrow morning but still has about 12 hours of work to be done (gonna be a long night). If I don't close the tab, I can't help but refresh it, and then I end up reading & posting &... damnit. Alright. C'mon Galz. Answer and get back to work.

Strictly speaking, the problem with answering your question is that I don't know Cayvie's alignment. My current thought is that she's some form of SK variant, but I don't actually know. She could be town, she could be traditional scum.

Let's assume she's town. I popped onto her because of a very small thing that stood out to me - something she confirmed was a good read generally, even if it was wrong in this specific situation. Mix (town), and Pubby (town) both voted for her as well. I would expect, if Cayvie is town (or even SK - "not-scum" as I'm using it), at least one traditional scum would find their way over to that wagon. It wasn't enough of a case to drive home a lynch, but it was good enough (and with Cayvie saying so herself) that a vote there could go generally unnoticed or criticized. As per VC 1.5 - that would make WCD.

Then the MiX (town) wagon began to be a thing. As I said at the time, MiX and his reactions are extremely predictable. I voted him because I wanted to drive the wagon up - not to see how MiX responded, but to see how everybody else responded. 

So, honestly, look at VC 1.7. On wagon when I voted was Mail (unknown), Shraeye (unknown), Swan (unknown). Voting after me was faust (unknown), LaLight (town), pubby (town). This is one of the reasons faust is higher up on my "possibly scum" list. I know that I'm not town - but I'm also not scum - I don't believe the MiX wagon finished with 4x"not-scum" votes. Although it's not impossible, and also not impossible is that I'm wrong about one of Mail-Mi, Shraeye & Swan. If I were to pick one to be wrong about, it would be Shraeye - but I honestly read him (as well as the other two) as townie overall, so... eh.

But if you believe that there was only one traditional scum on that wagon, and if you work under the assumption that Cayvie is not traditional scum, then there are probably two scum left out there amongst WCD, Uncle, EFHW, Skip & e!. You'll notice that in my reads list in #729, WCD is top of my scum list, and EFHW, Skip and e! are all middling. The only one of those that I'm town reading is Uncle.

[Galzria]

And now... I really do have to get myself back to work!

[mail-mi]

Okay, it might be time for me to start asking people questions.

@Galz, early in the game (around #220), you were voting Cayvie, along with pubby and MiX. A little later one, Didds joined the wagon, though at #275 you moved off to the growing MiX wagon. Anyway, in that period where you and two flipped townies were voting Cayvie, what's your best guess about what scum was up to?

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

I think the answers will be more informative other players can please refrain from responding on behalf of the people I'm asking, at least before they've had a chance to give a complete response. I'm hoping my IC-ness will allow me to be a little bit demanding for the next 48 hours :-)

Currently busy, tagging this to answer later

[skip wooznum]

rereading Skip:

he spends an inordinate amount of time talking about Didds' partial claim at the beginning of the game. Possible partner there, when I'm mafia I find myself paying more attention to what my partners say. So if either flips scum, I'd want to look at the other.

I think it was a fairly ordinate amount of time actually. The claim was a key thing that was going on at the time and at least one person (don't remember if more) was voting based on it, and my current read on didds (town) is in large part based on the conversation I had with her about it. So if it helped nobody else, at the very least it helped me.

*looks at available wagon options*. Sigh...

vote: pubby

Okay, so this definitely sounds like "Sigh, guess I have to join this mislynch..." Scumpoints right there.

I don't remember 100% what I was thinking but it was probably that the wagon I wanted (eddie, whom I'm now leaning town towards, btw) wasn't going anywhere so I had to give it up.

[skip wooznum]

@mod, as of post 750 I have been voting for galz

[skip wooznum]

I am in total agreement with Faust that galz is hiding something. Unfortunately, since nobody else expressed that opinion, we haven't really made a compelling incentive for him to tell the truth.

[skip wooznum]

I am in total agreement with Faust that galz is hiding something. Unfortunately, since nobody else expressed that opinion, we haven't really made a compelling incentive for him to tell the truth.

Well, I should say more that I was in total agreement with Faust initially, but galz's subsequent posts have shifted me a little, but not that much because we haven't really made an incentive for him to tel the truth.

[skip wooznum]

Also, mail-mi has claimed to have hard evidence that points to me being town, which is more than can be said for anybody else so I don't really get how I'm on the table at this point.

[skip wooznum]

Vote: Eddie

Could you explain this vote?

[faust]

Vote: Eddie

Could you explain this vote?

I thought his defense of Galz scummy. Also, at the time I thought he was the one to sign the petition, or at the very least he defended someone who did. And I currentyl didn't want to be voting for Galzria because I was afraid of a self-hammer.

[mail-mi]

Also, mail-mi has claimed to have hard evidence that points to me being town, which is more than can be said for anybody else so I don't really get how I'm on the table at this point.

Yeah, as I've thought more about this, there's no way that Skip's rolepower is scum. I mean, if it is, gg Ash, you tricked us. I will not be voting for skip today.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.8:

Galzria (5): EFHW, 2.7, WCD, skip, faust
skip (2): shraeye, cayvie
WCD (3): Galzria, uncle, mail-mi
uncleeurope (1): DatSwan

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[ashersky]

@mod, as of post 750 I have been voting for galz

Sorry, I missed it.  Fixed.

[cayvie]

ok. time to catch up (pant pant).

[cayvie]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

This point by faust got my attention. Why are you scumhunting, Galz?

Having read further, I see that you think there must be aliens among the scum. I think alien/human was probably assigned randomly.

There could be a delusional human faction. Seeing as we were given a free IC, I think there must be pretty significant threats against town. More than a mafia team and a weakened vig. Unless the mafia team is unusually large, I guess.

i am not a threat against town >:| stop that

[skip wooznum]

And e is scummy for wanting to lynch galz even though he believes the claim. Just an easy way of not committing to a lynch by hiding behind a policy-survivor-lynch.

[cayvie]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

This point by faust got my attention. Why are you scumhunting, Galz?

Having read further, I see that you think there must be aliens among the scum. I think alien/human was probably assigned randomly.

There could be a delusional human faction. Seeing as we were given a free IC, I think there must be pretty significant threats against town. More than a mafia team and a weakened vig. Unless the mafia team is unusually large, I guess.

i am not a threat against town >:| stop that

actually grr i'm right around to vote: EFHW after rereading this post. i think calling a "vig" a "threat" is a genuine scumslip.

[WestCoastDidds]

When I put it through Google translate, I get: "Samurai, this war will soon end. Our victory will be brilliant. Until humans surrender, food is cut in half due to transportation problems. Feel free to eat local animals and supplement your diet. The winged animals called owls are especially delicious. Glory to Spheny!"

WHAT?!?

The winged animals called owls are especially delicious?! What kind of outrage is this?! We have been reduced to eating owls?

[WestCoastDidds]

Catching up with the catching up.

I’ll be interested to hear what Space is thinking. I appreciate the meaningful questions, so I’ll hold off on anything further until she has had time to assess

[faust]

We have been reduced to eating owls?

You shouldn't claim alien, it means Galz will want to kill you even more.

[faust]

I’ll be interested to hear what Space is thinking. I appreciate the meaningful questions, so I’ll hold off on anything further until she has had time to assess

That's not how it works. The IC does stuff in the background, and we're supposed to post and stuff.

[EFHW]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

This point by faust got my attention. Why are you scumhunting, Galz?

Having read further, I see that you think there must be aliens among the scum. I think alien/human was probably assigned randomly.

There could be a delusional human faction. Seeing as we were given a free IC, I think there must be pretty significant threats against town. More than a mafia team and a weakened vig. Unless the mafia team is unusually large, I guess.

i am not a threat against town >:| stop that

actually grr i'm right around to vote: EFHW after rereading this post. i think calling a "vig" a "threat" is a genuine scumslip.

Given recent history, perhaps I can be forgiven for looking less than kindly at vigs. In any case, vigs are very swingy. How do you think they fit into balance considerations?

[mail-mi]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

[faust]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Well there is a scum on the wagon - it's Galzria, who you've colored purple without any evidence.

[mail-mi]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Well there is a scum on the wagon - it's Galzria, who you've colored purple without any evidence.

I colored purple as "not town." I suppose I could have done grey. Also I'm not considering Galz scum because I believe his claim (I seem to be in a minority, but I do) and I also think that him playing toward his wincon currently helps town, and we can use all the help we can get.

[cayvie]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

This point by faust got my attention. Why are you scumhunting, Galz?

Having read further, I see that you think there must be aliens among the scum. I think alien/human was probably assigned randomly.

There could be a delusional human faction. Seeing as we were given a free IC, I think there must be pretty significant threats against town. More than a mafia team and a weakened vig. Unless the mafia team is unusually large, I guess.

i am not a threat against town >:| stop that

actually grr i'm right around to vote: EFHW after rereading this post. i think calling a "vig" a "threat" is a genuine scumslip.

Given recent history, perhaps I can be forgiven for looking less than kindly at vigs. In any case, vigs are very swingy. How do you think they fit into balance considerations?

i think vigs in general are a strong town role, especially when they shoot scumfoos. yeah they're swingy but, like...

if there was a game mechanic that a totally random player just died one night, that would be a protown event in my eyes. and a vig shot is better than that, since it's controlled by a townie.

[faust]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Well there is a scum on the wagon - it's Galzria, who you've colored purple without any evidence.

I colored purple as "not town." I suppose I could have done grey. Also I'm not considering Galz scum because I believe his claim (I seem to be in a minority, but I do) and I also think that him playing toward his wincon currently helps town, and we can use all the help we can get.

Nah, if you were in the minority, then Galzria would be dead.

[shraeye]

Also, mail-mi has claimed to have hard evidence that points to me being town, which is more than can be said for anybody else so I don't really get how I'm on the table at this point.

Yeah, as I've thought more about this, there's no way that Skip's rolepower is scum. I mean, if it is, gg Ash, you tricked us. I will not be voting for skip today.

I need at least a modicum of clarification here.  Is his role power just to send a message?  Or did you get "something" in addition to the message?  Because just sending a message is 100% 100% 100% NAI.

[mail-mi]

Also, mail-mi has claimed to have hard evidence that points to me being town, which is more than can be said for anybody else so I don't really get how I'm on the table at this point.

Yeah, as I've thought more about this, there's no way that Skip's rolepower is scum. I mean, if it is, gg Ash, you tricked us. I will not be voting for skip today.

I need at least a modicum of clarification here.  Is his role power just to send a message?  Or did you get "something" in addition to the message?  Because just sending a message is 100% 100% 100% NAI.

I will say this: I did not get a message. I only got, as you say "something."

[2.71828.....]

I just reread Skip - not really seeing a lot there.  Nothing townie or scummy, just a big bag of null.  Let's see what other rereads bring

[2.71828.....]

Been reading while prepping for Drunk Mafia.

faust is a beacon of wisdom and knowledge this game.  Shouldn't lynch

Galzria is not town, is not working for town, and should be lynched.

WCD is being friendly...too friendly.  Oh wait, it's WCD.  Of course she is friendly.  But still.

Skip is nondescript, which is scummy.

mail-mi is playing exactly how I would expect them to play, which is null.

Other people are also playing the game.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 2.8:

Galzria (5): EFHW, 2.7, WCD, skip, faust
skip (2): shraeye, cayvie
WCD (3): Galzria, uncle, mail-mi
uncleeurope (1): DatSwan

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

who else is in the game.

Uncle. I should go read Uncle

[2.71828.....]

Shraeye, just level with me for a sec, no one else has to know.

(Are you scum? Because you have been acting off to me. It may just be that I haven’t played in awhile so I have forgotten, but a constant in my life has been my inability to see you as evil, and that aspect of my world is breaking. I just wanna know, are you an evil, lying, liar-pants?)

See, that’s shade.

uncle has been throwing shade around all day 1.  super scummy. 

then they go and brag about their scumminess?  yeeah, scum

I still think Galz is the lynch, but I might be persuaded.  I only got this far on Uncle though, need to keep going.  there might be more

[2.71828.....]

so, for the 3 or 4 people I have reread so far Eddie by far strikes me as scum.

1) They make jokes about doing scummy things.
2) Jokes are scummy (per Robz. I disagree, but there you have it)
3) Eddie is scum

but actually, jokes abuot being scummy can definitely deflect opitions away from you.

[Uncleeurope]

so, for the 3 or 4 people I have reread so far Eddie by far strikes me as scum.

1) They make jokes about doing scummy things.
2) Jokes are scummy (per Robz. I disagree, but there you have it)
3) Eddie is scum

but actually, jokes abuot being scummy can definitely deflect opitions away from you.

Well that is a laughably bad take.

Haha.

See, I’m laughing.

Here’s the deal, I joke more as town than as Scum.

It’s a tell I am not proud of, and am working on (working on it this game, perhaps? Haha) but it is a tell nonetheless.

Although that means less coming from me.

[2.71828.....]

I am laughing as well.

vote: Eddie

[2.71828.....]

wait, shraeye is in this game? what have they done?  Let me investigate.

[Uncleeurope]

I am laughing as well.

vote: Eddie

Okay, good, I was worried you weren’t brave enough to do that, I respect it.

I mean, it’s every flavor of incorrect, but I still respect t.

[Uncleeurope]

I am laughing as well.

vote: Eddie

Also, I see no evidence of laughter.

My post had a clearly denoted area where laughter took place. Here I have to take your word for it.

[2.71828.....]

Could just lynch MiX, it is Monday after all.

we have got ourselves another jokester

[Uncleeurope]

Shraeye, just level with me for a sec, no one else has to know.

(Are you scum? Because you have been acting off to me. It may just be that I haven’t played in awhile so I have forgotten, but a constant in my life has been my inability to see you as evil, and that aspect of my world is breaking. I just wanna know, are you an evil, lying, liar-pants?)

See, that’s shade.

Another note about my behavior, I am a shade thrower. I don’t play this game with notes, so I put my notes in the thread.

Anytime a post is weird to me, I comment on it, even if I am not trying to make a case or anything.

The process of writing posts helps me to remember key things for later.

Read any game I have been in. I always throw shade.
uncle has been throwing shade around all day 1.  super scummy. 

then they go and brag about their scumminess?  yeeah, scum

I still think Galz is the lynch, but I might be persuaded.  I only got this far on Uncle though, need to keep going.  there might be more

[2.71828.....]

Shraeye, just level with me for a sec, no one else has to know.

(Are you scum? Because you have been acting off to me. It may just be that I haven’t played in awhile so I have forgotten, but a constant in my life has been my inability to see you as evil, and that aspect of my world is breaking. I just wanna know, are you an evil, lying, liar-pants?)

See, that’s shade.

Another note about my behavior, I am a shade thrower. I don’t play this game with notes, so I put my notes in the thread.

Anytime a post is weird to me, I comment on it, even if I am not trying to make a case or anything.

The process of writing posts helps me to remember key things for later.

Read any game I have been in. I always throw shade.
uncle has been throwing shade around all day 1.  super scummy. 

then they go and brag about their scumminess?  yeeah, scum

I still think Galz is the lynch, but I might be persuaded.  I only got this far on Uncle though, need to keep going.  there might be more

quote fails.   nice.

anyway, I am convinced.

shraeye is much more of a jokester than you

vote: shraeye

[Uncleeurope]

Phone posting is hard...

Shraeye, just level with me for a sec, no one else has to know.

(Are you scum? Because you have been acting off to me. It may just be that I haven’t played in awhile so I have forgotten, but a constant in my life has been my inability to see you as evil, and that aspect of my world is breaking. I just wanna know, are you an evil, lying, liar-pants?)

See, that’s shade.

uncle has been throwing shade around all day 1.  super scummy. 

then they go and brag about their scumminess?  yeeah, scum

I still think Galz is the lynch, but I might be persuaded.  I only got this far on Uncle though, need to keep going.  there might be more

Another note about my behavior, I am a shade thrower. I don’t play this game with notes, so I put my notes in the thread.

Anytime a post is weird to me, I comment on it, even if I am not trying to make a case or anything.

The process of writing posts helps me to remember key things for later.

Read any game I have been in. I always throw shade.

[2.71828.....]

Also, we have WCD posting owls, shraeye and Uncle throwing jokes around like they are going out of style....what kind of game is this?

[2.71828.....]

but really, we should just lynch galzria

vote: Galzria

[2.71828.....]

snow we have come full cirlce.  The Circle of life.  or lynches

[Uncleeurope]

Also, we have WCD posting owls, shraeye and Uncle throwing jokes around like they are going out of style....what kind of game is this?

It’s a game. We are trying to have fun.

That being said, I feel like my level of joke throwing is roughly average, although it has been awhile, so maybe I am wrong.

[2.71828.....]

Also, we have WCD posting owls, shraeye and Uncle throwing jokes around like they are going out of style....what kind of game is this?

It’s a game. We are trying to have fun.

That being said, I feel like my level of joke throwing is roughly average, although it has been awhile, so maybe I am wrong.

yeah, thats why we go full circle and end back on galz.

[shraeye]

Also, we have WCD posting owls, shraeye and Uncle throwing jokes around like they are going out of style....what kind of game is this?

All I ever do is joke. Or be serious

[skip wooznum]

It's becoming increasingly clear to everyone that what I sent mail-mi was in fact not a message at all but something else.

So basically the cause of the confusion is as follows:

I targeted cayvie last night, so naturally when she claimed to have recieved something, I thought it was my thing (it wasn't). I noticed that she called the thing a message, which was not how I would have identified it, but I figured, it's her thing now and she can call it what she wants and she presumably has her reasons. Then later, when the mistake was corrected and I realized mail-mi had gotten the thing somehow, I didn't think it was important for everyone to know it wasn't a message. I underestimated the confusion it would cause. The end.

[mail-mi]

It's becoming increasingly clear to everyone that what I sent mail-mi was in fact not a message at all but something else.

So basically the cause of the confusion is as follows:

I targeted cayvie last night, so naturally when she claimed to have recieved something, I thought it was my thing (it wasn't). I noticed that she called the thing a message, which was not how I would have identified it, but I figured, it's her thing now and she can call it what she wants and she presumably has her reasons. Then later, when the mistake was corrected and I realized mail-mi had gotten the thing somehow, I didn't think it was important for everyone to know it wasn't a message. I underestimated the confusion it would cause. The end.

Can confirm, as I stated before, the thing I received was not a message.

Also reiterating, I will not be lynching skip today, and will be actively against it.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.9:

Galzria (5): EFHW, WCD, skip, faust, 2.7
skip (1): shraeye
WCD (3): Galzria, uncle, mail-mi
uncleeurope (1): DatSwan
EFHW (1): cayvie

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[EFHW]

I would consider a Shraeye lynch. He's been skating by with jokes instead of posting contributions.

[EFHW]

@cayvie, ok by your definition vig isn't a problem for town. I'm less of a fan.

[EFHW]

I object to mail-mi coloring himself green.

[EFHW]

I am in total agreement with Faust that galz is hiding something. Unfortunately, since nobody else expressed that opinion, we haven't really made a compelling incentive for him to tell the truth.

What do you suggest would make a stronger incentive? L-1?

[EFHW]

I'm planning to look at Day 1 voting tomorrow.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, we have WCD posting owls, shraeye and Uncle throwing jokes around like they are going out of style....what kind of game is this?

The best kind! Seriously, stir crazy and anxious. The owl was totally appropriate.

[shraeye]

I would consider a Shraeye lynch. He's been skating by with jokes instead of posting contributions.

That is whatever the opposite of fact is.

also
unvote

[faust]

@cayvie, ok by your definition vig isn't a problem for town. I'm less of a fan.

Well, a vig is definitely an asset for town; if it weren't vigs, could just decide to never shoot.

[faust]

I would consider a Shraeye lynch. He's been skating by with jokes instead of posting contributions.

That is whatever the opposite of fact is.

also
unvote

I mean, you have been kind of disappointing. And an unvote isn't helping. Unvotes are the worst.

[Swowl]

Do we have any reason to belive that there would be a concentration of aliens in the skum alignment? or are we thinking it is spread out marginally? I am not a huge follower of the show, I just watched the beginning in which most the aliens were baddies, but obv that is not the case.

Can there be Human Baddies? Can there be like *a lot* of Alien Town? does anyone know?

[faust]

Do we have any reason to belive that there would be a concentration of aliens in the skum alignment? or are we thinking it is spread out marginally? I am not a huge follower of the show, I just watched the beginning in which most the aliens were baddies, but obv that is not the case.

Can there be Human Baddies? Can there be like *a lot* of Alien Town? does anyone know?

I didn't watch the show, but from what I understood this is a continuation of the first game, and in that one we defeated the main alien baddies, so they wouldn't be around anymore, and the other aliens in the prior game were friendly IIRC.

[EFHW]

The aliens we have seen are both Volm, who were friendly.

[faust]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

[Galzria]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

A “non-town” lynch is not a “scum” lynch. Town already has 3 dead members. It’s likely to be 4, and possibly more, at day start tomorrow. Town needs a scum lynch far more than they need a “non-town” lynch. Lynching me helps bring the potential votes against scum down by at least two. With 12 alive, 7 to lynch, it’ll go down to 10 alive, 6 to lynch (assuming only one death). Given there’s likely a scum faction of 3 in the game - tomorrow’s lynch would require 6-of-7 “non-scum” (there may be other “non-town” players, like SK) to get a scum lynch through.

Lynching me now just puts Town in a worse spot than they are in today by taking away at least two votes that can be cast against scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

Alright, good point. My biggest scum read is Eddie.

Vote:Eddie

[WestCoastDidds]

Or rather vote: Eddie

[shraeye]

I would consider a Shraeye lynch. He's been skating by with jokes instead of posting contributions.

That is whatever the opposite of fact is.

also
unvote

I mean, you have been kind of disappointing. And an unvote isn't helping. Unvotes are the worst.

Yeah, guilty on both counts.  Just "making jokes only" is not correct.  I'm looking for where to revote, but skip's clarification helped me trust mail-mi's opinion more.

[faust]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

A “non-town” lynch is not a “scum” lynch. Town already has 3 dead members. It’s likely to be 4, and possibly more, at day start tomorrow. Town needs a scum lynch far more than they need a “non-town” lynch. Lynching me helps bring the potential votes against scum down by at least two. With 12 alive, 7 to lynch, it’ll go down to 10 alive, 6 to lynch (assuming only one death). Given there’s likely a scum faction of 3 in the game - tomorrow’s lynch would require 6-of-7 “non-scum” (there may be other “non-town” players, like SK) to get a scum lynch through.

Lynching me now just puts Town in a worse spot than they are in today by taking away at least two votes that can be cast against scum.

True (modulo the fact where you could totally be scum), but a town lynch is a town lynch, and all those other votes seem so incredibly weak that they might very easily be on town. Or so it seems to me.

[Galzria]

Didds, what is your read on Swan?

[EFHW]

Looking at voting patterns, I noticed that Skip is voting in sync with cayvie. He doesn't vote every time she does, but every time he votes it is soon after one of her votes and for the same person as she voted for. This happens three times, at 144, 332, and 627. (your post numbers may differ by one)

[EFHW]

There is an exception at 751, when Skip votes Galzria, but cayvie was voting Skip at the time.

I've seen new scum do this before - they pick someone they think is towny and mimic their votes.

vote: Skip

[mail-mi]

There is an exception at 751, when Skip votes Galzria, but cayvie was voting Skip at the time.

I've seen new scum do this before - they pick someone they think is towny and mimic their votes.

vote: Skip

wrong vote.

[EFHW]

There is an exception at 751, when Skip votes Galzria, but cayvie was voting Skip at the time.

I've seen new scum do this before - they pick someone they think is towny and mimic their votes.

vote: Skip

wrong vote.

?? Oh, right. Your education. Notice that's another cayvie connection, though, since she was his intended target.

vote: Galzria

[Uncleeurope]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

A “non-town” lynch is not a “scum” lynch. Town already has 3 dead members. It’s likely to be 4, and possibly more, at day start tomorrow. Town needs a scum lynch far more than they need a “non-town” lynch. Lynching me helps bring the potential votes against scum down by at least two. With 12 alive, 7 to lynch, it’ll go down to 10 alive, 6 to lynch (assuming only one death). Given there’s likely a scum faction of 3 in the game - tomorrow’s lynch would require 6-of-7 “non-scum” (there may be other “non-town” players, like SK) to get a scum lynch through.

Lynching me now just puts Town in a worse spot than they are in today by taking away at least two votes that can be cast against scum.

True (modulo the fact where you could totally be scum), but a town lynch is a town lynch, and all those other votes seem so incredibly weak that they might very easily be on town. Or so it seems to me.

Who is scum other than Galz? Because you seem to be town reading this entire group.

[faust]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

A “non-town” lynch is not a “scum” lynch. Town already has 3 dead members. It’s likely to be 4, and possibly more, at day start tomorrow. Town needs a scum lynch far more than they need a “non-town” lynch. Lynching me helps bring the potential votes against scum down by at least two. With 12 alive, 7 to lynch, it’ll go down to 10 alive, 6 to lynch (assuming only one death). Given there’s likely a scum faction of 3 in the game - tomorrow’s lynch would require 6-of-7 “non-scum” (there may be other “non-town” players, like SK) to get a scum lynch through.

Lynching me now just puts Town in a worse spot than they are in today by taking away at least two votes that can be cast against scum.

True (modulo the fact where you could totally be scum), but a town lynch is a town lynch, and all those other votes seem so incredibly weak that they might very easily be on town. Or so it seems to me.

Who is scum other than Galz? Because you seem to be town reading this entire group.

I don't really want to share that right now.

[Swowl]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

So my explanation has a lot to do more with I guess the reverse logic of your statement.
If we lynch galz... and he flips as he says... then the only look back we learn about from iso-ing players today is that there is "most likely a likelihood that aliens wanted galz dead". Like, it doesn't generate any info for us to use. And as we would be essentially accepting "a non town lynch" to play it safe to have a better chance later... I would kind of like to you know "actually have a better chance later".

Now obv the counter to this would be if you think Galz actually has a at least decent potential to flip over as skum... then ok I get it. What IS the range that you think galz can realistically flip here?

[Swowl]

There is an exception at 751, when Skip votes Galzria, but cayvie was voting Skip at the time.

I've seen new scum do this before - they pick someone they think is towny and mimic their votes.

vote: Skip

wrong vote.

?? Oh, right. Your education. Notice that's another cayvie connection, though, since she was his intended target.

vote: Galzria

You gotta help me connect some dots here, I just think I have quarantine brain or something, bc obv others get this line of thought but I am a little lost... How do we end up on Galz here?
First - Skip mimics Cayvie (ok, even though I don't agree, if that is your logic that is fine, I have def used worse lol)
Then - Skip votes Galz instead of Cayvie's target (bc he was Cayvie's target). K. if we are following the rabbit hole here, that still checks out.
Conclusion 1 - skip comes off skummy because they follow the "new skum" line on cayvie with the only exception being when Cayvie was voting for skip. Cool. Got it.

Then - MailMi insinuates that is not a good conclusion because of the "education" that they got from Skip. They previously have elaborated this is not a "coded message" it is like.. an actual thing of some sort. OK... so the important part, as you pointed out is that the original target was supposed to be cayvie. MailMi is suppper heavy on the education being something that is useful enough that it give town vibes off from skip to MailMi.
Option 1 - Skip is skum copy catting Cayvie. Attempts to make an alliance with Cayvie by providing them the Education.
Option 2 - Skip is skum. They are lying about target. They just wanted more chaos so when they claimed they through the re direct of gift in there just to  create another link to cayvie.
Option 3 - Skip is town. They did target cayvie because, as you say, their perception of cayvie is townie. It goes to MailMi instead. It is a good thing, as MailMi doesn't wanna lynch Skip.

That is kind of a lot to get a clarification question out here - but I want to be just super sure it is not mis-understood.

In the last quoted post, "skip votes for galz when cayvie was on skip" then "vote skip" then MailMi "wrong vote" then "you vote for galz".
Question - Are you insinuating that skip voting for galz in that spot makes galz skummy, or are you just returning to where you were before all this?

[Swowl]

Also - Cayvie... why still EFHW? Is that still like a strong case in your opinion?

[Swowl]

And I hate to ask today's IC, but Space do you have any outside input here?

Like are any of the talked about players *not* someone that you would consider for the day? I guess that is a better question then just asking who you think is skummy at this point.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, what is your read on Swan?

He is the opposite of jumping around, piling on, making flimsy cases, or being stubborn. So, he’s high on my town list, but not as high as cayvie.

[faust]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

So my explanation has a lot to do more with I guess the reverse logic of your statement.
If we lynch galz... and he flips as he says... then the only look back we learn about from iso-ing players today is that there is "most likely a likelihood that aliens wanted galz dead". Like, it doesn't generate any info for us to use. And as we would be essentially accepting "a non town lynch" to play it safe to have a better chance later... I would kind of like to you know "actually have a better chance later".

Now obv the counter to this would be if you think Galz actually has a at least decent potential to flip over as skum... then ok I get it. What IS the range that you think galz can realistically flip here?

I disagree that it doesn't generate info. People have taken all kinds of stances and they are relevant to their alignment even if Galzria flips "third party". (note that Galzria will not "flip what he says"... I don't think the flip will allow us any conclusion on whether he told the truth about everything.

What is the range? Uh everything except town. I've been asked about likelihoods before and I don't know. I think he's lying, he has an incentive to lie as either scum or third party. I find the offer to self-hammer a bit more of a scum move.

[Uncleeurope]

Didds, what is your read on Swan?

He is the opposite of jumping around, piling on, making flimsy cases, or being stubborn. So, he’s high on my town list, but not as high as cayvie.

Except 3/4 of those things are town traits.

Arguably all 4, but I can give you one.

[faust]

Also having another night where maybe all of our targeting won't be completely screwed up... might actually help us find scum.

[Swowl]

Didds, what is your read on Swan?

He is the opposite of jumping around, piling on, making flimsy cases, or being stubborn. So, he’s high on my town list, but not as high as cayvie.

Except 3/4 of those things are town traits.

Arguably all 4, but I can give you one.

She said I was high on her town list? im confused at your response.

[Swowl]

Also having another night where maybe all of our targeting won't be completely screwed up... might actually help us find scum.

ok but like what is your % chance realistically that you think he flips not survivor here? ballpark.

[cayvie]

Didds, what is your read on Swan?

He is the opposite of jumping around, piling on, making flimsy cases, or being stubborn. So, he’s high on my town list, but not as high as cayvie.

Except 3/4 of those things are town traits.

Arguably all 4, but I can give you one.

She said I was high on her town list? im confused at your response.

i think there's some confusing double negatives here; WCD i believe said you were "not [4 things]" and eddie said "but 3 of [4 things] are townie"

[cayvie]

Also - Cayvie... why still EFHW? Is that still like a strong case in your opinion?

i think so! i'd put her at the highest chance of flipping mafia rn. not based on night actions anymore, obv. but based on admittedly not paying attention day 1 and then i really really don't like her post about vigs being a "threat"; i think that's a genuine scumslip.

i mean obviously i'm a little tunneled too. but i think galz has like the lowest chance of flipping *mafia* today of anyone besides myself. so i won't be voting him today.

[SpaceAnemone]

I agree with EFHW that mail-mi using green for himself in his wagon analysis wasn't great, and I've been told off for self-colouring green in the past. More interesting is perhaps the fact that faust commented on the purple colour for Galz, but not on mail-mi's own colour. I think that's probably just due to the relative levels of suspicion faust places on the two, but it it's worth having out there as an observation.

[SpaceAnemone]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

[skip wooznum]

Looking at voting patterns, I noticed that Skip is voting in sync with cayvie. He doesn't vote every time she does, but every time he votes it is soon after one of her votes and for the same person as she voted for. This happens three times, at 144, 332, and 627. (your post numbers may differ by one)

Yes, totally not a coincidence. I got a strong townread on cayvie fairly early and I liked her reasoning behind those votes so I sheeped her. I would point out that the 3rd one had less to do with sheeping cayvie and more that she had incriminating night action stuff on you. I also targeted cayvie last night due to my townread on her.

[skip wooznum]

I am in total agreement with Faust that galz is hiding something. Unfortunately, since nobody else expressed that opinion, we haven't really made a compelling incentive for him to tell the truth.

What do you suggest would make a stronger incentive? L-1?

I was thinking L-1 with intent to hammer.

[cayvie]

I agree with EFHW that mail-mi using green for himself in his wagon analysis wasn't great, and I've been told off for self-colouring green in the past. More interesting is perhaps the fact that faust commented on the purple colour for Galz, but not on mail-mi's own colour. I think that's probably just due to the relative levels of suspicion faust places on the two, but it it's worth having out there as an observation.

i would be definitely interested in your thoughts on faust. though i'm not sure this item in particular is indicative of anything in particular to me; i think purple is just more noticeable than green, and we'd been talking about Galz's alignment all day anyway.

[skip wooznum]

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

For me the thing is that the petition sign up thing and the proxy thing are sort of implausible. Usually, mafia (and really most games) is about making choices that will help achieve your goal. But here we just have a qt where a third of us get together every night to discuss whether galz deserves to win.

If I had to guess, I would say the qt gives him powers as people sign up; maybe a nk, maybe something more subtle. But really it doesn't matter what my guess would be;  what matters is that I think what galz is saying is untrue.

[EFHW]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

There is no evidence that Galz is survivor, and there is indication that Didds could be his partner. So I want to see the flip.

[Uncleeurope]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

There is no evidence that Galz is survivor, and there is indication that Didds could be his partner. So I want to see the flip.

How is Didds Galz’s partner?

I am so lost right now.

[cayvie]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

There is no evidence that Galz is survivor, and there is indication that Didds could be his partner. So I want to see the flip.

what evidence would you be looking for to indicate that Galz is a survivor?

[WestCoastDidds]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

There is no evidence that Galz is survivor, and there is indication that Didds could be his partner. So I want to see the flip.

Huh?

[EFHW]

Also - Cayvie... why still EFHW? Is that still like a strong case in your opinion?

... but based on admittedly not paying attention day 1 ...

I was busy irl. I posted as much a couple times.

[skip wooznum]

If the galz lynch doesn't pan out, of the people with votes, I'd like a efhw lynch better than a eddie or didds lynch.

[skip wooznum]

I would not mind an e lynch though

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.10:

Galzria (4): skip, faust, 2.7, EHFW
WCD (3): Galzria, uncle, mail-mi
uncleeurope (2): DatSwan, WCD
EFHW (1): cayvie

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, shraeye

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[Uncleeurope]

I would not mind an e lynch though

Eh, same, honestly.

His pushing me, then immediately giving up was a bit manufactured.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay.... less than 24 hours

In the interest of consolidation, I need to move my vote. I am convinced that while Galz is a good choice, scum is a better choice.  I don’t think Eddie is town, but I’m not sure I can build an actual case.

Vote: e

There is a lot of not normal e stuff happening, and the push them drop of Eddie looked like a buddy move.  I’ll have some more time to think tomorrow. Also, I still trust cayvie, and had weird vibes from EFHW earlier, so I can see that as feasible too.

[cayvie]

ok lemme reread e.

[cayvie]

ok hot day2 theory:

scumteam = EFHW, e, faust
survivor/antialien team of Galz/???

vote: e

[cayvie]

the e=>faust ping is mostly this post

Been reading while prepping for Drunk Mafia.

faust is a beacon of wisdom and knowledge this game.  Shouldn't lynch

Galzria is not town, is not working for town, and should be lynched.

WCD is being friendly...too friendly.  Oh wait, it's WCD.  Of course she is friendly.  But still.

Skip is nondescript, which is scummy.

mail-mi is playing exactly how I would expect them to play, which is null.

Other people are also playing the game.

[Swowl]

I’ll sheep for now then.

Vote: E!

[shraeye]

I'm still feeling down for WCD.  Gonna look at things, but tonight is family game night.  Ain't no game night like herding shraeye's family

[shraeye]

the e=>faust ping is mostly this post

Been reading while prepping for Drunk Mafia.

faust is a beacon of wisdom and knowledge this game.  Shouldn't lynch

Galzria is not town, is not working for town, and should be lynched.

WCD is being friendly...too friendly.  Oh wait, it's WCD.  Of course she is friendly.  But still.

Skip is nondescript, which is scummy.

mail-mi is playing exactly how I would expect them to play, which is null.

Other people are also playing the game.

That's classic E though, that faust comment

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm still feeling down for WCD.  Gonna look at things, but tonight is family game night.  Ain't no game night like herding shraeye's family

Hi to the fam! Here’s the thing...you know that if I am scum, I will crack under pressure. Every time, no doubt about it. So, if you still think I’m scummy tomorrow, I’ll inadvertently make it easy for you. But if you are wrong, and I’m it scum, lynching me is a terrible idea. It’s not like that never happens...you scum read me incorrectly often, but usually it’s when the stakes are lower, not when we are already down 3 town.

[cayvie]

I'm still feeling down for WCD.  Gonna look at things, but tonight is family game night.  Ain't no game night like herding shraeye's family

Hi to the fam! Here’s the thing...you know that if I am scum, I will crack under pressure. Every time, no doubt about it. So, if you still think I’m scummy tomorrow, I’ll inadvertently make it easy for you. But if you are wrong, and I’m it scum, lynching me is a terrible idea. It’s not like that never happens...you scum read me incorrectly often, but usually it’s when the stakes are lower, not when we are already down 3 town.

to be fair, down 3 but up 1

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm still feeling down for WCD.  Gonna look at things, but tonight is family game night.  Ain't no game night like herding shraeye's family

Hi to the fam! Here’s the thing...you know that if I am scum, I will crack under pressure. Every time, no doubt about it. So, if you still think I’m scummy tomorrow, I’ll inadvertently make it easy for you. But if you are wrong, and I’m not scum, lynching me is a terrible idea. It’s not like that never happens...you scum read me incorrectly often, but usually it’s when the stakes are lower, not when we are already down 3 town.

to be fair, down 3 but up 1

Good catch. I forgot the +1 (also edited my post above. Phone typos...”it” “not”, whatever)

[mail-mi]

I can't remember exactly why I was voting WCD, so I'll need to reread her and e and see what I want.

[cayvie]

I'm still feeling down for WCD.  Gonna look at things, but tonight is family game night.  Ain't no game night like herding shraeye's family

Hi to the fam! Here’s the thing...you know that if I am scum, I will crack under pressure. Every time, no doubt about it. So, if you still think I’m scummy tomorrow, I’ll inadvertently make it easy for you. But if you are wrong, and I’m not scum, lynching me is a terrible idea. It’s not like that never happens...you scum read me incorrectly often, but usually it’s when the stakes are lower, not when we are already down 3 town.

to be fair, down 3 but up 1

Good catch. I forgot the +1 (also edited my post above. Phone typos...”it” “not”, whatever)

ofc i'm sure ash balanced it with the Space consideration, so maybe down 3 is right.

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, let’s kill EFHW, then.

Let’s not just pile on e for funsies.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, let’s kill EFHW, then.

Let’s not just pile on e for funsies.

Best reason for voting EFHW?

[Uncleeurope]

I feel it in my bones.

[skip wooznum]

So I'm kinda torn cuz that was a worryingly high amount of interest in e almost immediately after my post, but it was from a bunch of townreads so I don't know.

I'll probably still be down for an e lynch.

[EFHW]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

There is no evidence that Galz is survivor, and there is indication that Didds could be his partner. So I want to see the flip.

How is Didds Galz’s partner?

I am so lost right now.

2 reasons. She asked for him 5 or 6 times Day 1 and today they are at each other's throats - very unlike Didds. I think the mutual suspicion there is staged, probably to compensate for the Day 1 asks.

[Uncleeurope]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

There is no evidence that Galz is survivor, and there is indication that Didds could be his partner. So I want to see the flip.

How is Didds Galz’s partner?

I am so lost right now.

2 reasons. She asked for him 5 or 6 times Day 1 and today they are at each other's throats - very unlike Didds. I think the mutual suspicion there is staged, probably to compensate for the Day 1 asks.

I vastly prefer Didds to Galz here. I also don’t think a scum who has claimed an expendable third party tries to lynch a partner as hard as Galz did. Especially when it looked like people were leaning towards going Didds. That essentially nails down two scum for one if people follow him on Didds.

I just can’t see Galz making up such an awful

[Uncleeurope]

... claim to connect to a weird petition thing.

Especially considering the flavor of the thing already pointing to that.

[faust]

I am convinced that while Galz is a good choice, scum is a better choice.

Does that mean you're convinced that Galzria isn't scum? Why?

[faust]

I just can’t see Galz making up such an awful

Well - I just can't see ash making up such an awful

[faust]

It's a shame that we've got a result on skip since they are the towniest town who ever towned.

[faust]

I can't remember exactly why I was voting WCD, so I'll need to reread her and e and see what I want.

You want to be voting for Galzria. These are not the lynches you are looking for. *suggestive Jedi hand movements*

[cayvie]

It's a shame that we've got a result on skip since they are the towniest town who ever towned.

wait what?

[Galzria]

It's a shame that we've got a result on skip since they are the towniest town who ever towned.

wait what?

Yeah. This. Like, he’s not the scummiest scum who ever scummed, but he’s by no means townie.

[Uncleeurope]

I just can’t see Galz making up such an awful

Well - I just can't see ash making up such an awful

I predicted this post.

Yeah, I mean it’s definitely a solid point.

I just think scum are more creative than creators more often than not.

Probably wrong on that.

But barring all of that I hadn’t been scum reading Galz this whole time, so I just can’t vote for him straight up.

[faust]

ok hot day2 theory:

scumteam = EFHW, e, faust
survivor/antialien team of Galz/???

vote: e

I'm afraid you will be disappointed.

[faust]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

Is there someone else that you are sure is mafia? Because then I'm happy to switch.

Eh, I'll put together a case, but the burden of proof against Galz for some reason seems to be much higher than against anyone else.

[faust]

I've pointed all this out before, but here's a neat overview, starting with the most damning.

1. If the petition serves no other purpose than for Galzria's win condition, then the process makes no sense. A player would need to sign, and then agree again after enough signatures are in. There is no game-design reason for requiring the second approval, as it doesn't matter to the player and they already made a choice.

2. As pointed out, the claim is inconsistent - Galz doesn't know the identities of the signees, but gets to choose one of them. First of all he would have us believe that he did not notice this discrepancy until he claimed today. Also, he would have us believe that ashersky did not provide clarification for an integral part of his role. That's not the mod!ashersky that I know, and it doesn't fit my with interactions with ashersky in this game.
I think the solution here is that actually Galzria doesn't know the signees, but the thing that the signatures do is something else, which is how it happened that he made a claim that doesn't quite work.

3. It doesn't make a lot of sense flavor-wise. Yon sign a petition to do something, and if enough people sign it... nothing happens to further the purpose of the petition? Come on.

4. It's weird that the number claimed doesn't coincide with the number of players who posted. I think it is very unlikely that anyone in this game would choose to not post in a neighborhood.

5. Galzria offered to self-hammer, which doesn't work at all with a Survivor-like role. As a scum gambit, it makes more sense.

6. His persistence on Didds is nonsense. He wants her lynched, but doesn't want to say any reasons that might convince others because ... maybe she'll say something more incriminating? Well there's not much time left for that in this day. I think that he has nothing on Didds actually, and the case is made up, there is no scumtell. Galzria just wants to be seen arguing against Didds for some reason. And a Survivor doesn't have a reason to make up disingenuous reads.

7. He says he could be randomly included in the neighborhood he generates. So like... he can sign his own petition, but only sometimes, up to RNG? Seems unnecessarily swingy without reason, he could just always be in there or never.

[faust]

8. He spent most of his D1 time voting for town. That alone isn't a big thing, but it fits with a scum!Galzria picture.

[faust]

Clarification from a guy watching outside the ring - op says he won’t answer certain shit. And i can confirm that is true.

Can you point me to where it says that?

[WestCoastDidds]

I am convinced that while Galz is a good choice, scum is a better choice.

Does that mean you're convinced that Galzria isn't scum? Why?

Last night I was feeling like the tides were turning, largely from reading Space. But this morning I had some thoughts and now I’m more convinced Galz is scum. I need to get up and going, feed the humans and animals, and then re-read a bit and think, but I’m feeling some clarity that I didn’t have before.

His convinced-ness of my scumminess, along with not signing his petition, has me wondering if his wincon is tied to having those who didn’t sign die before he dies.

[skip wooznum]

It's a shame that we've got a result on skip since they are the towniest town who ever towned.

wait what?

Yeah. This. Like, he’s not the scummiest scum who ever scummed, but he’s by no means townie.

Nulliest null who ever nulled?

[mail-mi]

When is deadline?

[faust]

When is deadline?

lmF3tfy:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[shraeye]

Didds.  Thoughts on mailmi??

[shraeye]

Yeah, reread confirms. 

Vote: Didds

[mail-mi]

When is deadline?

lmF3tfy:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

Oh, I did not realize that was so close. Ill hopefully be able to get to stuff today but it's Sunday so we'll see. I'm at least comfortable with my vote right now, willing to switch to e if necessary. Would also lynch galz if no other option becomes available. Will not lynch skip.

[shraeye]

I was looking for evidence that, despite my memories, Didds was participating in this game.  Did not find.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, let’s kill EFHW, then.

Let’s not just pile on e for funsies.

But you're not voting for her?

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, let’s kill EFHW, then.

Let’s not just pile on e for funsies.

But you're not voting for her?

True.

[WestCoastDidds]

Fun times rereading on a Sunday!

There are 4 people voting for me, all with very little actual reason aside from I have a tick (Glaz), and I don't seem like me (Mail-mi and Eddie) and I am not participating (Shraeye). Here is what I get from the reread on mail-mi....he spends most of D1 gunning for MiX. Then on D2, he defends Galz, and then Skip, and now is willing to lynch Galz. He votes for WCD, can't remember why, then says he's cool with the vote, but could also go Galz. This, in conjunction with coloring himself green on the MiX wagon demonstrates to me that he isn't much interested in finding scum. He's doing no hunting, just kind of hanging about and defending.

Here are the relevant posts.  I haven't included anything about the "education" he received or discussions of bus driving/chaos/etc.

Lots of stuff happened while I was asleep. I think Galz is telling the truth, and I'm feeling scummy about Eddie.

vote: Didds

Not liking her reaction to Galz's scumread on her, seems over-the-top and not like town Didds.

I would have to look him [Skip] over again, because right now I'm pretty null on him. Would be willing to move over.

FWIW, I believe Galz in this claim. And there's no reason to lunch him because, like he's stated, he's helping town right now, and we could use our lunch in better places.

Galz has claimed some sort of survivor variant who can win with town. Nothing in his claim has struck scum bells or liar bells in my head, especially given his responses to doubts on his claim. As of right now, other scum are more dangerous than this third party (especially since Galz can't kill) and so I am on the lookout for those scum. If and when new information comes to light, I will reexamine Galz, but for now he's off the table for me.

Final thoughts on skip: I think his play during the day has come up on the scummy side, but the role power that he has (which I received) is not a scum rolepower.

So, I am going to stay on WCD and I think skip is likely town, but I would be willing to join his lynch if it's our only option.

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Also reiterating, I will not be lynching skip today, and will be actively against it.

I can't remember exactly why I was voting WCD, so I'll need to reread her and e and see what I want.

Oh, I did not realize that was so close. Ill hopefully be able to get to stuff today but it's Sunday so we'll see. I'm at least comfortable with my vote right now, willing to switch to e if necessary. Would also lynch galz if no other option becomes available. Will not lynch skip.

[EFHW]

I still prefer Galz (++ faust's post). Ok with Didds, just hoping to see Galz flip first.

PPE: Didds

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, lynching Galzria is definitely still my top choice.

I should be up in the middle of the night to change a diaper so I can potentially help a lynch get through, but no promises since the little guys schedule, while somewhat predicable, can change it a moment's notice.

[WestCoastDidds]

On to Shraeye
On D1 he was all MiX, all the time.  D2, he started out on Galz, has spent most of the day on Skip, and now has switched to me. Here is his commentary about me on D2:

I'm not voting for EFHW right now.  The Galz business is 8x more exciting than this.
vote: Galzria

And Didds too; I'd vote Didds

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Did you figure this out before or after you started the day by voting for EFWH for no apparent reasom?

I'm still feeling down for WCD.  Gonna look at things, but tonight is family game night.  Ain't no game night like herding shraeye's family

Didds.  Thoughts on mailmi??

Yeah, reread confirms. 

Vote: Didds

I was looking for evidence that, despite my memories, Didds was participating in this game.  Did not find.

I am not seeing anything like a reason for his vote other than that I am not participating? That seems like a perception that is hard to counter. I have asked Shraeye three questions that he ignored completely (why he doesn't think Glaz's claim is a survivor, why he is voting for skip, and why he is down for my lynch).

[WestCoastDidds]

Now Eddie.  This one is a lot shorter, and basically boils down to "eh, why not" even though EFHW seems to be his larger target.

Okay, fair enough, Didds being dead works for me.

Vote: Didds

I vastly prefer Didds to Galz here. I also don’t think a scum who has claimed an expendable third party tries to lynch a partner as hard as Galz did. Especially when it looked like people were leaning towards going Didds. That essentially nails down two scum for one if people follow him on Didds.

I just can’t see Galz making up such an awful *claim to connect to a weird petition thing.

Especially considering the flavor of the thing already pointing to that."

*occurs over two posts, I compiled them for clarity

[SpaceAnemone]

8. He spent most of his D1 time voting for town. That alone isn't a big thing, but it fits with a scum!Galzria picture.

How consistent would that be with SK!Galz? Obviously he'd probably rather be voting for Mafia than town, but that can be hard to figure out D1.

[SpaceAnemone]

Here are the relevant posts.  I haven't included anything about the "education" he received or discussions of bus driving/chaos/etc.

I think considering the "education" is relevant, though, because he's hard-definding another player because of it. Do you think that's likely scum behaviour? Also, do you personally feel any differently about Skip's possible alignment in light of it?

[WestCoastDidds]

Here are the relevant posts.  I haven't included anything about the "education" he received or discussions of bus driving/chaos/etc.

I think considering the "education" is relevant, though, because he's hard-definding another player because of it. Do you think that's likely scum behaviour? Also, do you personally feel any differently about Skip's possible alignment in light of it?

I find Skip pretty towny overall.  I am far less certain about mail-mi, but I can see that it would be helpful to him to buddy himself up to a towny person, especially since Shraeye dropped his Skip case. Between his vote for me based on nothing, defense of Galz, then defense of Skip, now willingness to vote for Galz, I think Mail-mi is our best chance for scummy scum over Galz's brand of scum.

[Galzria]

8. He spent most of his D1 time voting for town. That alone isn't a big thing, but it fits with a scum!Galzria picture.

How consistent would that be with SK!Galz? Obviously he'd probably rather be voting for Mafia than town, but that can be hard to figure out D1.

It’s a literal non-tell for anybody.

I spent “most” of the day voting for Town. I voted Cayvie in 194, MiX in 275, and I hammered Pubby at 514.

Swan spent “most” of the day voting for Town. He voted Eddie in 149, MiX in 295, and Pubby in 409.

Shraeye spent “most” of the day voting for Town. He voted MiX (only) in 273.

Mail-Mi spent “most” of the day voting Town. He voted MiX in 60, Cayvie in 198, and MiX in 219.

[Uncleeurope]

8. He spent most of his D1 time voting for town. That alone isn't a big thing, but it fits with a scum!Galzria picture.

How consistent would that be with SK!Galz? Obviously he'd probably rather be voting for Mafia than town, but that can be hard to figure out D1.

It’s a literal non-tell for anybody.

I spent “most” of the day voting for Town. I voted Cayvie in 194, MiX in 275, and I hammered Pubby at 514.

Swan spent “most” of the day voting for Town. He voted Eddie in 149, MiX in 295, and Pubby in 409.

Shraeye spent “most” of the day voting for Town. He voted MiX (only) in 273.

Mail-Mi spent “most” of the day voting Town. He voted MiX in 60, Cayvie in 198, and MiX in 219.

Awwww, I’m touched.

[shraeye]

8. He spent most of his D1 time voting for town. That alone isn't a big thing, but it fits with a scum!Galzria picture.

How consistent would that be with SK!Galz? Obviously he'd probably rather be voting for Mafia than town, but that can be hard to figure out D1.

It’s a literal non-tell for anybody.

I spent “most” of the day voting for Town. I voted Cayvie in 194, MiX in 275, and I hammered Pubby at 514.

Swan spent “most” of the day voting for Town. He voted Eddie in 149, MiX in 295, and Pubby in 409.

Shraeye spent “most” of the day voting for Town. He voted MiX (only) in 273.

Mail-Mi spent “most” of the day voting Town. He voted MiX in 60, Cayvie in 198, and MiX in 219.

I agree with Galz on this.

[WestCoastDidds]

In the interest of completion, here is Galz's case on me. It pretty much boils down to "trust me, I know her".

Vote: WCD - She's Scum McScumerston. There's a tick I only just noticed on re-read that I'll happily divulge at game's end. But I'm very confident in this read.

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

You are scum, but I'm not going to have a debate with you about it.

Signing doesn't = death, but that's what you wanted to frame it as when you shot LL knowing he was signing it last night. That's cool. You can lynch me, I'll flip Anthony Walker, A Delusional Humanist. At night, the meeting QT will still be generated, and the petition will still go out. Everything I've claimed will happen will continue to happen. People will probably sign it in secret, just to prove you wrong (and me right) because that's how people are. Tomorrow, you'll get lynched, and you'll flip scum - clearing everything I've stated as being true, as I'll flip what I've claimed, and you'll flip whatever flavor of scum you actually are.

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.

[Galzria]

In the interest of completion, here is Galz's case on me. It pretty much boils down to "trust me, I know her".

Vote: WCD - She's Scum McScumerston. There's a tick I only just noticed on re-read that I'll happily divulge at game's end. But I'm very confident in this read.

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

You are scum, but I'm not going to have a debate with you about it.

Signing doesn't = death, but that's what you wanted to frame it as when you shot LL knowing he was signing it last night. That's cool. You can lynch me, I'll flip Anthony Walker, A Delusional Humanist. At night, the meeting QT will still be generated, and the petition will still go out. Everything I've claimed will happen will continue to happen. People will probably sign it in secret, just to prove you wrong (and me right) because that's how people are. Tomorrow, you'll get lynched, and you'll flip scum - clearing everything I've stated as being true, as I'll flip what I've claimed, and you'll flip whatever flavor of scum you actually are.

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.

In the interest of completion, you missed this:

Okay, it might be time for me to start asking people questions.

@Galz, early in the game (around #220), you were voting Cayvie, along with pubby and MiX. A little later one, Didds joined the wagon, though at #275 you moved off to the growing MiX wagon. Anyway, in that period where you and two flipped townies were voting Cayvie, what's your best guess about what scum was up to?

I'm using this to distract myself from the work that I'm supposed to be doing... and that I promised would be done by tomorrow morning but still has about 12 hours of work to be done (gonna be a long night). If I don't close the tab, I can't help but refresh it, and then I end up reading & posting &... damnit. Alright. C'mon Galz. Answer and get back to work.

Strictly speaking, the problem with answering your question is that I don't know Cayvie's alignment. My current thought is that she's some form of SK variant, but I don't actually know. She could be town, she could be traditional scum.

Let's assume she's town. I popped onto her because of a very small thing that stood out to me - something she confirmed was a good read generally, even if it was wrong in this specific situation. Mix (town), and Pubby (town) both voted for her as well. I would expect, if Cayvie is town (or even SK - "not-scum" as I'm using it), at least one traditional scum would find their way over to that wagon. It wasn't enough of a case to drive home a lynch, but it was good enough (and with Cayvie saying so herself) that a vote there could go generally unnoticed or criticized. As per VC 1.5 - that would make WCD.

Then the MiX (town) wagon began to be a thing. As I said at the time, MiX and his reactions are extremely predictable. I voted him because I wanted to drive the wagon up - not to see how MiX responded, but to see how everybody else responded. 

So, honestly, look at VC 1.7. On wagon when I voted was Mail (unknown), Shraeye (unknown), Swan (unknown). Voting after me was faust (unknown), LaLight (town), pubby (town). This is one of the reasons faust is higher up on my "possibly scum" list. I know that I'm not town - but I'm also not scum - I don't believe the MiX wagon finished with 4x"not-scum" votes. Although it's not impossible, and also not impossible is that I'm wrong about one of Mail-Mi, Shraeye & Swan. If I were to pick one to be wrong about, it would be Shraeye - but I honestly read him (as well as the other two) as townie overall, so... eh.

But if you believe that there was only one traditional scum on that wagon, and if you work under the assumption that Cayvie is not traditional scum, then there are probably two scum left out there amongst WCD, Uncle, EFHW, Skip & e!. You'll notice that in my reads list in #729, WCD is top of my scum list, and EFHW, Skip and e! are all middling. The only one of those that I'm town reading is Uncle.

[WestCoastDidds]

The "she" you reference there is Cavyie, yeah?  I am only mentioned at the end? And it's just that I am still scum because scum?

[WestCoastDidds]

So, my final assessment is that my wagon is at least half non-town folk.

Galz isn't trying to help town. We know that Volm are alien town, and his desire to end them (along with any alien scum) isn't helpful to us at all. Further, I have a feeling that his lock on me was the result of not signing the petition. He claims not to know who has signed and not signed, but there was zero surprise to the disclosure of who had and had not signed. It is too strange, and far too opportunistic, not to be related. "WCD has a tell, she's scum. What? You didn't sign my petition? Totally scum." Don't forget that he used the example of LL signing the petition in #789, well before Eddie and I said that LL had signed the petition.

His account also doesn't make sense with the supposed random selection of the QT and his desire to hunt scum. So, if scum signs, and becomes his proxy, then he gets the scum wincon. So, he's scum. If an alien signs, and becomes his proxy, he can't win no matter what. So, dead man walking. He is a Schrodinger's galz...scum and town simultaneously....AND alien and human simultaneously.

So, vote: Galzria

Mail-mi is slinking along the edges of the game without engaging much. I find him straight up scummier than Galz, and would switch, but I am not voting there now in the interest of consolidation.

[Galzria]

I've pointed all this out before, but here's a neat overview, starting with the most damning.

And I've explained how all of these are wrong, but I'll do so again, just for you.

1. If the petition serves no other purpose than for Galzria's win condition, then the process makes no sense. A player would need to sign, and then agree again after enough signatures are in. There is no game-design reason for requiring the second approval, as it doesn't matter to the player and they already made a choice.

It makes no sense because you're living in a world where you know what it is and how it works. Because I told you. I've said "none of it matters to the other player", so now, none of it matters to the other player. In a world where this information is not public, the lack of knowledge provides more than enough reason to consider the options. It doesn't have any more of an effect on them in a world where they don't know what purpose it serves than it does in a world where they do know - but the game design is perfectly acceptable, because in a world where they don't know, it might.

2. As pointed out, the claim is inconsistent - Galz doesn't know the identities of the signees, but gets to choose one of them. First of all he would have us believe that he did not notice this discrepancy until he claimed today. Also, he would have us believe that ashersky did not provide clarification for an integral part of his role. That's not the mod!ashersky that I know, and it doesn't fit my with interactions with ashersky in this game.
I think the solution here is that actually Galzria doesn't know the signees, but the thing that the signatures do is something else, which is how it happened that he made a claim that doesn't quite work.

You're making assumptions about me that you should know from modding simply aren't true. I generally do not comb through my PR looking for every possible discrepancy. This is especially true when playing with more experienced MODS. I also don't know what to tell you. I'm not the only person who has gotten a "I'm not answering that at this time" response from Ashersky regarding their role. DatSwan has spoken up regarding the same. As I stated this first, not Swan, it would seem highly unlikely that I just bull-shitted my response on that hoping against all hope that Ashersky did in fact give those type of responses. This is especially true because, as you note (and I know, having played in plenty of Ash's games in the past), he's usually pretty good about answering questions. In Falling Skies, he answered most (although not all) of my questions then. You know what would've been a better lie if I intended to lie there? "Ash said that the names of the signee's would be presented to me when I reach 4".

3. It doesn't make a lot of sense flavor-wise. Yon sign a petition to do something, and if enough people sign it... nothing happens to further the purpose of the petition? Come on.

See my response to point 1. These are the same points that you're trying to make.

4. It's weird that the number claimed doesn't coincide with the number of players who posted. I think it is very unlikely that anyone in this game would choose to not post in a neighborhood.

I believe you're just wrong here, and I'm not alone in this expressed opinion. I believe there are many players that would choose to stay silent.

5. Galzria offered to self-hammer, which doesn't work at all with a Survivor-like role. As a scum gambit, it makes more sense.

Except it works just fine with what I've claimed. Had I claimed "Hey guys, I'm a normal survivor", your point might be valid. Unfortunately, it's not.

6. His persistence on Didds is nonsense. He wants her lynched, but doesn't want to say any reasons that might convince others because ... maybe she'll say something more incriminating? Well there's not much time left for that in this day. I think that he has nothing on Didds actually, and the case is made up, there is no scumtell. Galzria just wants to be seen arguing against Didds for some reason. And a Survivor doesn't have a reason to make up disingenuous reads.

I've given reasons beyond what you've apparently read. Still, I've arguably done more actual scum-hunting than you have, as not only have you actively only gone after me, you've consistently tried to dissuade every single other option. In faust's world, I'm the only scum that exists in the whole game apparently. Fun! Even considering the possibility that I'm not what I've claimed, even if I was "traditional scum", which is what faust is generally arguing, I would have partners out there. Faust isn't interested in finding them - one has to begin to wonder if it's because he knows I DON'T, because he himself has them?

7. He says he could be randomly included in the neighborhood he generates. So like... he can sign his own petition, but only sometimes, up to RNG? Seems unnecessarily swingy without reason, he could just always be in there or never.

You've obviously missed the part where I've claimed that I cannot sign my own petition. Also, note that I've said the signatures must be unique as well.

[faust]

8. He spent most of his D1 time voting for town. That alone isn't a big thing, but it fits with a scum!Galzria picture.

How consistent would that be with SK!Galz? Obviously he'd probably rather be voting for Mafia than town, but that can be hard to figure out D1.

Uh I mean, it's kind of consistent? I don't really think about SK!Galz that much, obviously that could be, but I think there's something behind his Didds push that relates to his win condition.

[faust]

How nice of Glazria to rehash his unconvincing talking points. Anyways I'm going to go to bed now, and I sure hope that I'll wake up to a dead Galzria.

One last thing though:

7. He says he could be randomly included in the neighborhood he generates. So like... he can sign his own petition, but only sometimes, up to RNG? Seems unnecessarily swingy without reason, he could just always be in there or never.

You've obviously missed the part where I've claimed that I cannot sign my own petition. Also, note that I've said the signatures must be unique as well.

So Galzria claims his role would basically expose him in the QT would he ever be in it? Or otherwise he'd have to argue against signing the petition for his own non-signing to make sense. Another point that doesn't make sense.

[Galzria]

So, my final assessment is that my wagon is at least half non-town folk.

Galz isn't trying to help town. We know that Volm are alien town, and his desire to end them (along with any alien scum) isn't helpful to us at all. Further, I have a feeling that his lock on me was the result of not signing the petition. He claims not to know who has signed and not signed, but there was zero surprise to the disclosure of who had and had not signed. It is too strange, and far too opportunistic, not to be related. "WCD has a tell, she's scum. What? You didn't sign my petition? Totally scum." Don't forget that he used the example of LL signing the petition in #789, well before Eddie and I said that LL had signed the petition.

Your last sentence point is a valid concern, and I can't really argue the thought process - I can simply explain mine. I used LL because he flipped Human. It didn't make sense to use a living player to explain out my example, as I don't know any of your alignment's or race's. As I cannot win via proxy if that proxy is alien, it didn't make sense to use MiX or Pubby as my example either. So LL was the only logical choice. I don't believe that you would've done any different in my shoes giving that example, but I also cannot argue that your thought processes above is an invalid one to take.

The "tell", as I thought it was (and remember, I have stated multiple times that it's not the super strongest tell in the world), is that you've categorized players into "buckets" (town-bucket, scum-bucket) D1. This is a term/phraseology that I've only ever notice you use as scum. I looked back at about the last half dozen of your town games and could not find another example of you using this. It seems to be how you like to "group" people when you're scum. It's also something you can easily explain away and say isn't true if you are in fact scum here - so it doesn't seem to serve much purpose in divulging it except that it makes it useless in the future. No gain now, lost gain later.

His account also doesn't make sense with the supposed random selection of the QT and his desire to hunt scum. So, if scum signs, and becomes his proxy, then he gets the scum wincon. So, he's scum. If an alien signs, and becomes his proxy, he can't win no matter what. So, dead man walking. He is a Schrodinger's galz...scum and town simultaneously....AND alien and human simultaneously.

So, vote: Galzria

Mail-mi is slinking along the edges of the game without engaging much. I find him straight up scummier than Galz, and would switch, but I am not voting there now in the interest of consolidation.

Generally, I think you're right. If I got to 4 signatures, asked a signed scum to be my proxy (and they weren't alien), then if I were to be dead, I would essentially have a scum wincon. The same is true if you replace town with scum above. If I'm alive, my proxy (if I have them) serves no purpose. And if my Proxy is an Alien (if that's a thing that can happen), then I cannot win if I'm already dead, or must have them lynched in order to win if I'm alive.

I feel like you're making it seem more confusing than it is - or maybe it's just more confusing than it seems to me because it's my role and I've walked through the various iterations a bazillion times here already.

[Galzria]

How nice of Glazria to rehash his unconvincing talking points. Anyways I'm going to go to bed now, and I sure hope that I'll wake up to a dead Galzria.

One last thing though:

7. He says he could be randomly included in the neighborhood he generates. So like... he can sign his own petition, but only sometimes, up to RNG? Seems unnecessarily swingy without reason, he could just always be in there or never.

You've obviously missed the part where I've claimed that I cannot sign my own petition. Also, note that I've said the signatures must be unique as well.

So Galzria claims his role would basically expose him in the QT would he ever be in it? Or otherwise he'd have to argue against signing the petition for his own non-signing to make sense. Another point that doesn't make sense.

They're more legitimate than anything you've bothered to put forth... on anybody, including myself.

And why would I need to argue against signing again? Just because my signature doesn't count on my petitions doesn't mean I can't argue that I think people should sign it. Sorry, maybe I phrased that poorly. "I cannot sign it" means "My signature doesn't count".

[Swowl]

Here.
Gonna catch up really fast. Uno momento

[Galzria]

Lynches I would strongly consider at this point, I think:

WCD
Mail-Mi (This has been a recent development. Obviously I town read him earlier. Didds (and I feel like others?) has made some solid points... and... I dunno. He felt crazy, crazy townie D1. He doesn't D2.)
EFHW
faust

Lynches I don't think are great, but meh:
e!
Eddie
Skip
Swan
Shraeye

Lynches that won't ever happen but should be listed anyway because... Swan:
Space

[Galzria]

Lynches I would strongly consider at this point, I think:

WCD
Mail-Mi (This has been a recent development. Obviously I town read him earlier. Didds (and I feel like others?) has made some solid points... and... I dunno. He felt crazy, crazy townie D1. He doesn't D2.)
EFHW
faust

Lynches I don't think are great, but meh:
e!
Eddie
Skip
Swan
Shraeye

Lynches that shouldn't ever happen but apparently be listed anyway because... Swan:
Space

EBWOP

[mail-mi]

It doesn't seem like I'll have time to reread today, sorry y'all.

Also there's a very IRL reason I've been more disengaged D2 and kinda skirting along: it's the end of the semester, which means final projects and finals are coming due. I've just been busier than I was D1

[Swowl]

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

[Swowl]

It doesn't seem like I'll have time to reread today, sorry y'all.

Also there's a very IRL reason I've been more disengaged D2 and kinda skirting along: it's the end of the semester, which means final projects and finals are coming due. I've just been busier than I was D1

would you consider Eddie or EFHW over WCD?

[mail-mi]

It doesn't seem like I'll have time to reread today, sorry y'all.

Also there's a very IRL reason I've been more disengaged D2 and kinda skirting along: it's the end of the semester, which means final projects and finals are coming due. I've just been busier than I was D1

would you consider Eddie or EFHW over WCD?

I would. I don't even know what my lynch preference is at this point, I need to do some thinking. As it turns out, my wife is asleep right now and I have some time to at least look over some stuff.

[Swowl]

@ faust - is there no one in the game you think there is a better chance of finding skum over galz?

[Galzria]

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?

[Galzria]

@ faust - is there no one in the game you think there is a better chance of finding skum over galz?

faust went to bed. You're likely not getting an answer before deadline, so your answer is "no". But he's also made that abundantly clear by his deflection from literally every single other possible vote choice.

[mail-mi]

Fun times rereading on a Sunday!

There are 4 people voting for me, all with very little actual reason aside from I have a tick (Glaz), and I don't seem like me (Mail-mi and Eddie) and I am not participating (Shraeye). Here is what I get from the reread on mail-mi....he spends most of D1 gunning for MiX. Then on D2, he defends Galz, and then Skip, and now is willing to lynch Galz. He votes for WCD, can't remember why, then says he's cool with the vote, but could also go Galz. This, in conjunction with coloring himself green on the MiX wagon demonstrates to me that he isn't much interested in finding scum. He's doing no hunting, just kind of hanging about and defending.

Here are the relevant posts.  I haven't included anything about the "education" he received or discussions of bus driving/chaos/etc.

I think Galz is telling the truth. However, I'd rather lynch him than someone I think is town, because he isn't town. You seem off. I can't put an exact reasoning to it (without a reread) but you seem different than your usual happy town self. Also coloring myself green is such a nulltell, I'd do that as town or scum. Look at any game I've played as town or scum and you'll see that I put myself as the towniest on any scum to chum list. Also, I was doing that wagon analysis from my perspective, and from my perspective I'm conf!town. If you want an unbiased wagon analysis, ask someone who wasn't on it.

[Swowl]

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?

because this is an RMM. So if he is skum and you are survivor, then he has to believe your claim essentially. That is not a threat to him weighed against potential town!PRs that exist somewhere else.

The sk point is fair enough.

[Galzria]

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?

because this is an RMM. So if he is skum and you are survivor, then he has to believe your claim essentially. That is not a threat to him weighed against potential town!PRs that exist somewhere else.

The sk point is fair enough.

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

[Galzria]

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?

Is there someone else that you are sure is mafia? Because then I'm happy to switch.

Eh, I'll put together a case, but the burden of proof against Galz for some reason seems to be much higher than against anyone else.

btw - this post screams of "I'm not going to do any work to find real mafia, but I'll sheep the IC if they tell me to"

[Galzria]

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

A “non-town” lynch is not a “scum” lynch. Town already has 3 dead members. It’s likely to be 4, and possibly more, at day start tomorrow. Town needs a scum lynch far more than they need a “non-town” lynch. Lynching me helps bring the potential votes against scum down by at least two. With 12 alive, 7 to lynch, it’ll go down to 10 alive, 6 to lynch (assuming only one death). Given there’s likely a scum faction of 3 in the game - tomorrow’s lynch would require 6-of-7 “non-scum” (there may be other “non-town” players, like SK) to get a scum lynch through.

Lynching me now just puts Town in a worse spot than they are in today by taking away at least two votes that can be cast against scum.

True (modulo the fact where you could totally be scum), but a town lynch is a town lynch, and all those other votes seem so incredibly weak that they might very easily be on town. Or so it seems to me.

Who is scum other than Galz? Because you seem to be town reading this entire group.

I don't really want to share that right now.

Convenient.

[Galzria]

vote: faust

Willing to re-vote WCD. Willing to vote Mail-Mi. Willing to vote EFHW. Those are my top 4.

[mail-mi]

Rereading WCD right now.

I think I agree with EFHW's sentiment about WCD's day 1: actilurking. Not saying much of anything, only coming in to respond to cases on her. (again, i find that a scum trait) Scummy.

She was on the pubby wagon, though I don't think she takes a scummy place there. It was nearing end of day, moved her vote to consolidate. Null.

Wow...you are the delusional humanist. I am not scum. Not even a little bit. Your certainty is laughable, but also infuriating because the only way for me to prove that you're wrong is to die, and then I am dead and you win and you don't even care that you are completely mischaracterizing me.

If you think anyone would sign to prove me wrong you are WAAAYYY overestimating my value to anyone in this game.

Even your scenario doesn't make sense.  If Lalight was killed because he signed, Eddie is just as likely to have done it. You zeroing in on me says something else is going on here.

This is post 828, and it rubs me the wrong way. I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe because I just don't see town!WCD being so...abrasive?

End of this day has turned a little bit more towny for WCD, so townpoints there.

There's the end of my reread. I'm still happy with my vote, for the reasons I stated when I voted her (not liking her reaction to galz's case). It's not the strongest case though, so I can be convinced to vote elsewhere.

[mail-mi]

vote: faust

i'm listening.

[mail-mi]

gonna take a break, hoping to reread e or EFHW when I get back.

[Swowl]

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?

because this is an RMM. So if he is skum and you are survivor, then he has to believe your claim essentially. That is not a threat to him weighed against potential town!PRs that exist somewhere else.

The sk point is fair enough.

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

k fair - but if your read on faust that makes sense, which I suppose it at least has merit to it, is "he is alien skum he would want me dead bc we can't win together", why would you spend the whole day pushing WCD instead of faust?

[Swowl]

to clarify - unless I am missing something, your read on WCD is she is skum. Which is good for you at this point if true if they get lynched. But no where near as good as alien skum... or even probably alien town... though I have no idea how you would get a read on alien town, so I guess that doesn't matter. But still, Alien!skum is def better for you then Random!Skum.

[Galzria]

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?

because this is an RMM. So if he is skum and you are survivor, then he has to believe your claim essentially. That is not a threat to him weighed against potential town!PRs that exist somewhere else.

The sk point is fair enough.

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

k fair - but if your read on faust that makes sense, which I suppose it at least has merit to it, is "he is alien skum he would want me dead bc we can't win together", why would you spend the whole day pushing WCD instead of faust?

A) Because I still think WCD is scum. I think my tell on her is valid, and I think VCA suggests there's a decent chance she is.

B) Because faust's refusal to consider any other options for scum - and more, to actively try to manipulate people away from other lynches, hasn't really been prevalent until the past two irl days. Yes, he's been on me since (before) my claim, and he's been the most vocal critic of it - but the extent to which he's gone to dissuade any other lynch from being considered has sky-rocketed in the past 48 hours.

[Galzria]

to clarify - unless I am missing something, your read on WCD is she is skum. Which is good for you at this point if true if they get lynched. But no where near as good as alien skum... or even probably alien town... though I have no idea how you would get a read on alien town, so I guess that doesn't matter. But still, Alien!skum is def better for you then Random!Skum.

This is accurate. I mean, as much as it can be, yes. My preference right now would be:

Alien!Scum >>> Alien!Town > Random!Scum >>> Random!Town

That's laid out given that I actually knew ahead of time what it was I was lynching. In reality, my goal would be:

Alien!Scum >> Random!Scum >>>>> Random!Town

[Swowl]

right I mean, but he could be alien town as well right?
he still could not win with you as alien town unless I am not getting something?

[Galzria]

right I mean, but he could be alien town as well right?
he still could not win with you as alien town unless I am not getting something?

I mean, yes. But I don't think that he tunnels it out without any consideration for finding actual scum if he's town. Like, if he's Alien Town, then yes, he and I cannot win together. Ever. So we are diametrically opposed. But if he's town, he recognizes that town is already down 3 players, and that the best lynch for today is real scum. I may be that, in his eyes, or I could be telling the truth. If I'm telling the truth, then lynching me is actively hurting and already knocked down town. If I'm lying and am actually scum, then I have partners out there, which he should be considering. But he's not. At all. That's the crux of what rubs me here. I'm either:

A) Telling the truth
or
B) Am lying and probably have scum!partners

faust's approach has been B... but with no consideration for me having scum!partners. This leads me to believe that we ARE diametrically opposed, and ALSO that he knows that I don't have partners, because he himself has partners. Alien. Scum.

[Galzria]

There IS a third argument, that I'm SK, in which case - cool, everything is groovy. Not town, no partners, lynch Galz.

... But that isn't what he's argued at any real point in time. In fact, his argument against me has been significantly more vague than that. It's been "lynch Galz, he's guaranteed "non-town"". Well, in a general sense, he's right about that. The best kind of general sense. Because nobody will criticize that argument. Because it's true. But what he's avoiding in presenting the argument that way is that "not all non-town lynches are pro-town lynches".

[Swowl]

need to process and run some stuff through my head. hold on.

[cayvie]

Lynches I would strongly consider at this point, I think:

WCD
Mail-Mi (This has been a recent development. Obviously I town read him earlier. Didds (and I feel like others?) has made some solid points... and... I dunno. He felt crazy, crazy townie D1. He doesn't D2.)
EFHW
faust

Lynches I don't think are great, but meh:
e!
Eddie
Skip
Swan
Shraeye

Lynches that won't ever happen but should be listed anyway because... Swan:
Space

now that you've made me check to make sure i wasn't daykilled, i notice you haven't listed me here. just forget? still think im sk?

[Galzria]

Lynches I would strongly consider at this point, I think:

WCD
Mail-Mi (This has been a recent development. Obviously I town read him earlier. Didds (and I feel like others?) has made some solid points... and... I dunno. He felt crazy, crazy townie D1. He doesn't D2.)
EFHW
faust

Lynches I don't think are great, but meh:
e!
Eddie
Skip
Swan
Shraeye

Lynches that won't ever happen but should be listed anyway because... Swan:
Space

now that you've made me check to make sure i wasn't daykilled, i notice you haven't listed me here. just forget? still think im sk?

My bad, sorry Cayvie! Was running through the list in my head and miscounted! You're in the second tier. Would lynch, but prefer not to. And your second question: Maybe.

I don't think you're traditional scum right now. That makes you either SK or Town. Neither makes you more likely to be Alien.

[Swowl]

Yeah..
I will go with

Vote:EFHW

Better than  WCD by a mile. Closely followed by Galz imo.
And while I appreciate Galz case, which is why they are grouped close to WCD there... I just don't want faust today.

[cayvie]

like okay, how's this for a theory on what Galz is lying about

what if he is a survivor with some weird powers and actually the petition is designed to get rid of Galz? or hurt Galz in some way? i definitely buy that galz is third party, but the thing that has always struck me as odd about his claim is--why would he claim the part about the signatures? there was no need to. it only hurts him.

if galz is telling the truth, then every other player in the game knows that correct strategy is just "don't sign the petition at night"

so i'm thinking that galz is canny enough to know this--and predicted that would be the outcome of his claim. he did this because he doesn't want signatures on the petition. because it hurts him in some way.

[Swowl]

like okay, how's this for a theory on what Galz is lying about

what if he is a survivor with some weird powers and actually the petition is designed to get rid of Galz? or hurt Galz in some way? i definitely buy that galz is third party, but the thing that has always struck me as odd about his claim is--why would he claim the part about the signatures? there was no need to. it only hurts him.

if galz is telling the truth, then every other player in the game knows that correct strategy is just "don't sign the petition at night"

so i'm thinking that galz is canny enough to know this--and predicted that would be the outcome of his claim. he did this because he doesn't want signatures on the petition. because it hurts him in some way.

I mean that is interesting enough, but if he is what he claims and he knew someone signed.... him getting out in front of it would make sense as his claimed role yeah?

[Galzria]

Yeah..
I will go with

Vote:EFHW

Better than  WCD by a mile. Closely followed by Galz imo.
And while I appreciate Galz case, which is why they are grouped close to WCD there... I just don't want faust today.

Vote didn't count. No Space.

Why do you think EFHW has a better chance of flipping scum than faust?

[SpaceAnemone]

No Space.

Sorry.. I was unable to resist Maxford's DVD-watching demands :-P Back now!

Lockdown-life is hectic and stressful, so I feel like it's worth savouring the fact that I do actually have a friend to share it with and keep me moderately sane. Hope you're all doing okay.

[Galzria]

No Space.

Sorry.. I was unable to resist Maxford's DVD-watching demands :-P Back now!

Lockdown-life is hectic and stressful, so I feel like it's worth savouring the fact that I do actually have a friend to share it with and keep me moderately sane. Hope you're all doing okay.

Ha! Context. Made me laugh. Well done! I had to click the link to see where I had said "No Space".

[Uncleeurope]

Is deadline in ~2 hours, or am I wrong?

I haven’t slept in too long, and I have been holding out for deadline, but I think it is starting to not be worth it.

[Galzria]

No Space.

Sorry.. I was unable to resist Maxford's DVD-watching demands :-P Back now!

Lockdown-life is hectic and stressful, so I feel like it's worth savouring the fact that I do actually have a friend to share it with and keep me moderately sane. Hope you're all doing okay.

It's a weird feeling to feel both like "nothing is going on and you have all the free time in the world..." and also "super stressed and not enough time to get to all the things you need/want to get to". Days go by right now and I'm not even sure how... except that I know there's always stuff I can (should) be doing. "Nothing to do" and "Always something else on the list" don't seem like they can co-exist, but they do!

[Galzria]

Is deadline in ~2 hours, or am I wrong?

I haven’t slept in too long, and I have been holding out for deadline, but I think it is starting to not be worth it.

This is correct. 1 Hour & 56 Minutes from the time of this post.

[Swowl]

Yeah..
I will go with

Vote:EFHW

Better than  WCD by a mile. Closely followed by Galz imo.
And while I appreciate Galz case, which is why they are grouped close to WCD there... I just don't want faust today.

Vote didn't count. No Space.

Why do you think EFHW has a better chance of flipping scum than faust?

Vote: EFHW

thanks.
and it is a very slim margin.
Like I stated previously, EFHW is based on reads of players and how the interactions with their wagon went down.
Faust case I don't even have. Just looking at your pov keeps it open. I have reasons against most of your reasons, no clue who is right... but at least some of them I agree with it.

[Uncleeurope]

Faust is being too stubborn to be scum in my mind.

It’s a fairly simple obvservation, but worth noting.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, Swowl, you still think I’m a baddie?

I’m so tired I just want to ramble a bit.

[Uncleeurope]

Also also, can someone knock together a vote count?

[Galzria]

Faust is being too stubborn to be scum in my mind.

It’s a fairly simple obvservation, but worth noting.

Why would scum!faust not be stubborn? Or rather, why would scum!faust have any desire to lynch anybody else? He wouldn't want to lynch a partner - so by tunneling me he can avoid making reads on them - and he would much rather lynch me than a townie - whose green flip would leave him needing to justify his incorrect read. Like, I don't see why scum!faust wouldn't tunnel the *(&@ out of me.

[Swowl]

Also, Swowl, you still think I’m a baddie?

I’m so tired I just want to ramble a bit.

meh. I do but for the same reasons as always, which are about as solid as Galz' reasons on WCD so yeah. But not enough to care right now.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, Swowl, you still think I’m a baddie?

I’m so tired I just want to ramble a bit.

meh. I do but for the same reasons as always, which are about as solid as Galz' reasons on WCD so yeah. But not enough to care right now.

Wait, you always think I am bad? What are those reasons?

[Uncleeurope]

Faust is being too stubborn to be scum in my mind.

It’s a fairly simple obvservation, but worth noting.

Why would scum!faust not be stubborn? Or rather, why would scum!faust have any desire to lynch anybody else? He wouldn't want to lynch a partner - so by tunneling me he can avoid making reads on them - and he would much rather lynch me than a townie - whose green flip would leave him needing to justify his incorrect read. Like, I don't see why scum!faust wouldn't tunnel the *(&@ out of me.

Imo scum want you to live to another day if they can.

You are a free mislynch that they can use whenever they want. They also know you are more likely to be telling the truth than we have the ability to know, which means you are less threatening than a random town.

What you say means little to town at this point as well.

They would prefer to lynch:
anyone but you >> you >>>>>>> partner

[Swowl]

no not always.
I mean I tend to always get weird vibes off you when we play, but it isn't like 100% of the time.

I don't even remember all the reasons, they are posted back in day 1 somewhere. I can dig em up later, I am multi tasking right now.

[Uncleeurope]

no not always.
I mean I tend to always get weird vibes off you when we play, but it isn't like 100% of the time.

I don't even remember all the reasons, they are posted back in day 1 somewhere. I can dig em up later, I am multi tasking right now.

Well, they call me that for a reason- Uncle “Weird Vibes” Eddie

[Galzria]

Well, as we're coming up on 90 minutes to deadline, and you two are both likely needed to see a faust lynch happen, I'm going to vote: EFHW for now.

[mail-mi]

Would be willing to join, still think id prefer WCD tho

[Uncleeurope]

Does anyone have a vote count? I desperately need sleep, and want to know where to park my vote.

[SpaceAnemone]

No Space.

Sorry.. I was unable to resist Maxford's DVD-watching demands :-P Back now!

Lockdown-life is hectic and stressful, so I feel like it's worth savouring the fact that I do actually have a friend to share it with and keep me moderately sane. Hope you're all doing okay.

It's a weird feeling to feel both like "nothing is going on and you have all the free time in the world..." and also "super stressed and not enough time to get to all the things you need/want to get to". Days go by right now and I'm not even sure how... except that I know there's always stuff I can (should) be doing. "Nothing to do" and "Always something else on the list" don't seem like they can co-exist, but they do!

I'm still working 10-7 weekdays, just from my kitchen table.. and actually we have a load of critical deadlines that I should be putting in more extra hours than I am to meet. I've been very carefully staying in denial all weekend so that I could have a little slice of normal time, otherwise I might explode coming into this new week.

I really meant to come into this game seriously about 48 hours ago with reads and to try to steer things. I was glad of faust's support when he agreed that the IC should stay quiet earlier in the day, but I'm somewhat disappointed not to have had him reminding me that I'd be useful now :-P

PPE 11

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

WestCoastDidds (3): Uncleeurope, mail-mi, Shraeye
Galzria (5): skip wooznum, faust, 2.71828....., EFHW, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (1): Cayvie
EFHW (2): DatSwan, Galzria
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.11:

Galzria (5): skip, faust, 2.7, EHFW, WCD
WCD (3): uncle, mail-mi, shraeye
EFHW (2): DatSwan, Galzria
2.7 (1): cayvie

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on April 19 at 21:30 forum time.

[skip wooznum]

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

This is not true, except for that you lied about your wincon.

[SpaceAnemone]

Imo scum want you to live to another day if they can.

You are a free mislynch that they can use whenever they want. They also know you are more likely to be telling the truth than we have the ability to know, which means you are less threatening than a random town.

I think that's only true if Galz were to flip as a survivor-like faction. There's a real risk that there's something more to his role than he's letting on, as faust keeps pointing out. That could be scary for mafia-scum, especially if they're not personally reponsible for both of last night's kills and the claimed vig isn't accepting responsibility either. If there's a decent chance, in mafia's eyes, that Galz could perform an NK, then they're going to want him out of the picture sooner rather than later.

[Galzria]

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

This is not true, except for that you lied about your wincon.

Such confidence, for something you know nothing about, as you have not seen my PM.

[skip wooznum]

Like, if he's Alien Town, then yes, he and I cannot win together.

Also untrue, except for that you lied about your win-con.

[skip wooznum]

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

This is not true, except for that you lied about your wincon.

Such confidence, for something you know nothing about, as you have not seen my PM.

I'm confident that based on the win-con you have claimed, it's possible for both you and town!aliens (or scum!aliens) to both win the game.

Otherwinconslip!

[Swowl]

Like, if he's Alien Town, then yes, he and I cannot win together.

Also untrue, except for that you lied about your win-con.

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

This is not true, except for that you lied about your wincon.

elaborate plz

Such confidence, for something you know nothing about, as you have not seen my PM.

I'm confident that based on the win-con you have claimed, it's possible for both you and town!aliens (or scum!aliens) to both win the game.

Otherwinconslip!

[Swowl]

misquote:

Elaborate plz

[Uncleeurope]

I guess I am going with Vote: EFHW

Although Galz is probably the technically correct lynch here. Ehhh...

[Galzria]

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.

This is not true, except for that you lied about your wincon.

Such confidence, for something you know nothing about, as you have not seen my PM.

I'm confident that based on the win-con you have claimed, it's possible for both you and town!aliens (or scum!aliens) to both win the game.

Otherwinconslip!

It isn't possible for us to both win AND be alive at the same time. Take a scenario that is Town!Alien, Town!Human & me. Yes, we can "both win together", if the Town!Alien goes "Oh hey, lynch me and we all win!". But at that point it's just better for them to lynch me - much safer by far.

It's possible for a DEAD Alien Player (MiX, pubby - for example) to win at the same time I do, if all scum are dead and I'm alive with just Town!Human's. But that wasn't really the point that was being made. The assumption in those posts is that Alien!faust is ALIVE, and as long as he's ALIVE he and I cannot win together - and that is true of any Alien.

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, here's where I'm at.

Vote: Galz L-1

This shouldn't, by his admission, actually hurt his chances at his stated wincon. However, even if he's exactly what he claims to be, his flip may give town information about whether his death is something mafia themselves are likely to be pushing for actively, which helps us with wagon analysis. Meanwhile, someone who's going to be alive tomorrow should read through and check whether his "buckets" theory for WCD's scum-tell pans out. Her self-defence reaction right now reads quite genuine to me, but I'm not the greatest at that kind of reading.

Another person I'd like to look more at would be mail-mi, from VCA and also from the lack of follow-through on the question I directed at him.

[Galzria]

misquote:

Elaborate plz

It's a pedantic difference. He's pointing out that Aliens that are dead (regardless of faction) still win with their faction. So If I win with town (ie. The only players left alive are me and Town!Humans), then I've technically won with all Town!Aliens as well - therefore it is not "literally impossible" for me to win "with Town!Aliens".

[Galzria]

Vote: Galzria

I have not lied. Not a single word.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Galzria

I have not lied. Not a single word.

Well, I believed you.

[Uncleeurope]

...mostly...


Goodnight, folks.

[Galzria]

There will still be a QT tonight. Please feel free to sign it. Or don't. Survivor is tough enough as is. Didn't really expect to win. But maybe ya'll will feel generous.

[mail-mi]

Okay, here's where I'm at.

Vote: Galz L-1

This shouldn't, by his admission, actually hurt his chances at his stated wincon. However, even if he's exactly what he claims to be, his flip may give town information about whether his death is something mafia themselves are likely to be pushing for actively, which helps us with wagon analysis. Meanwhile, someone who's going to be alive tomorrow should read through and check whether his "buckets" theory for WCD's scum-tell pans out. Her self-defence reaction right now reads quite genuine to me, but I'm not the greatest at that kind of reading.

Another person I'd like to look more at would be mail-mi, from VCA and also from the lack of follow-through on the question I directed at him.

I answered the question... What more did you want?

[mail-mi]

Tough luck Galz.

[Galzria]

Okay, here's where I'm at.

Vote: Galz L-1

This shouldn't, by his admission, actually hurt his chances at his stated wincon. However, even if he's exactly what he claims to be, his flip may give town information about whether his death is something mafia themselves are likely to be pushing for actively, which helps us with wagon analysis. Meanwhile, someone who's going to be alive tomorrow should read through and check whether his "buckets" theory for WCD's scum-tell pans out. Her self-defence reaction right now reads quite genuine to me, but I'm not the greatest at that kind of reading.

Another person I'd like to look more at would be mail-mi, from VCA and also from the lack of follow-through on the question I directed at him.

It does HURT my chances, just doesn't REMOVE my chances!

faust is scum. Mail-Mi probably is too. The last scum is LIKELY between EFHW/WCD/Shraeye. Cayvie, if she's scum, is SK. Everybody else is likely town.

[Swowl]

Vote: Galzria

I have not lied. Not a single word.

Is there a reason for the self hammer?

[Galzria]

Vote: Galzria

I have not lied. Not a single word.

Is there a reason for the self hammer?

I said that I would. No other lynch was happening at this point. The votes weren't out there. I'm dead, but there's a chance (however slim) that I end up with 4 votes and can assign a proxy. Survivor is the lowest win rate role that exists. It almost can never win without the support of town. Wasn't getting that. I don't really feel bad about dying here. I played the day out the best way I thought I could to give myself the best chance of winning. If that chance went up from 1 to 2 percent, well then I still lose the other 98% of the time. So oh well.

[Galzria]

In Ash’s spirit:

Vote: pubby

I'd have preferred if you channelled ash's spirit for a good old self-vote.

Done.

[ashersky]

Day 2 Final Vote Count:

Galzria (7): skip, faust, 2.7, EHFW, WCD, Space, Galzria
WCD (2): mail-mi, shraeye
EFHW (2): DatSwan, uncle
2.7 (1): cayvie

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

[ashersky]

I don't think anyone was ever really surprised by anything after the invasion.  Before the first Espheni came, no one seriously accepted the possibility of an alien attack.  And then it happened.

So many people lost so many more.  And in the way of emotional, feeling beings, some needed to find others to blame.  It is always someone's fault, even when it isn't.  Some turned to their gods, others to their friends, and still others to violence.

Community justice still ruled, and so many lost their lives based on, or for, suspicion and prejudice.  Is this the best way?  I don't know.

—Diary Entry, sunset during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


Galzria was lynched.  He was Anthony Walker, a Delusional Humanist. He was Human.

[ashersky]

Night 2 begins now.

[ashersky]

Orders are due in 24 hours.

[ashersky]

Another night, another nightmare. Every one of us who lived through the invasion has them. The sound of explosions, the silence of being stalked, the machine hum of killer robots. And then the sun comes up, and we are still here. Well, some of us.

Sometimes there are just...bodies. They aren't explained, they aren't commented on. Because no matter what, it's still better than before, when we were under the domination of the Espheni.

--Diary Entry, sunrise during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


WCD was shot and killed during the night. She was 西海岸ディッズ, a Dornian.
cayvie was killed during the night. She was Isabella, a Delusional Humanist. She was Human.

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.0

Not Voting (9): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, faust, EFHW, DatSwan, uncleeurope, shraeye, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[Uncleeurope]

I guess Cayvie signed?

Do we get an alignment on WCD?

Also, when do we get to lynch EFHW?

[EFHW]

Galz lied!

[Uncleeurope]

Galz lied!

?

[EFHW]

西海岸ディッズ translates as West Coat Didds, in case you were interested!

[EFHW]

Galz lied!

?

??

[Uncleeurope]

I mean, I wonder if there is no red faction here.

Like, is yellow out only threat.

That’d be snazzy.

In which case Galz very much died.

[Uncleeurope]

Our only threat*

[Uncleeurope]

Lied*

Although he died too.

That post is a mess.

[EFHW]

He said he was all alone with a nerfed survivor role. That was a LIE. I guess I fell for his using Didds as a distraction,  though. Does the OP guarantee a mafia faction? I'll check.

[EFHW]

Nothing about it. Not surprising.

[EFHW]

Maybe Didds will come back to life. I just read the wikipedia page on the Dornia, and they are able to do some out there things. It would be more consistent, though, if she had had the role of bringing someone else back to life.

[Swowl]

I mean let's just make it plain and simple on Galz.

I typed out specific yes or no questions to him in that post yesterday specifically so there was no way to weasle out of it. And one of them was "is there anything about your role you have not told us"? It was then asked again by faust, and both times he said "no, I have told you everything". If he had an alignment with cayvie that would be a lie.

Also, more strange. As he did in fact get lynched... I am inclined to believe they were not actually partners (knowingly at least) because cayvie claiming truth would of been a big swing that probably saves Galz. Though cayvie was not on Galz. But then also Galz really wanted to lynch Cayvie. IDK, they both died, probably doesn't matter.

More importantly...

We have another shot and killed plus just a "killed".

Obvious question would be I think if anyone got the contract thing. If there is a reason not to claim that out, then whatever I guess hold off. But if the sign thing went out again, and someone can confirm that cayvie signed it... that is kind of a go ahead for probably do not sign that anymore.

[Swowl]

Am I crazy? Cayvie kill is weird right? I mean I guess I also think the WCD kill is weird, so IDK.

[mail-mi]

I guess Cayvie signed?

Do we get an alignment on WCD?

Also, when do we get to lynch EFHW?

So far I've been wrong. i guess i should just go back to sheeping

vote: EFHW

[mail-mi]

WCD was shot and killed during the night. She was 西海岸ディッズ, a Dornian.

WCD doesn't even have an alignment color. What does that mean?

[skip wooznum]

2 questions for any flavor experts:

1)Are Darnia likely good guys or bad guys?
2)Is Isabella a character that is likely to be a delusional humanist, or is the assumption that there was some alignment change?

[EFHW]

2 questions for any flavor experts:

1)Are Darnia likely good guys or bad guys?
2)Is Isabella a character that is likely to be a delusional humanist, or is the assumption that there was some alignment change?

Good guys. I don't remember an Isabella.

[skip wooznum]

Obvious question would be I think if anyone got the contract thing. If there is a reason not to claim that out, then whatever I guess hold off.

I am all for everyone claiming that.

I was not invited to a petition signing qt last night.

[skip wooznum]

@eddie,

Feel like claiming what the message was that cayvie sent you N1? Seeing as she's dead and (to quote galz) not green-text (lol).

[Uncleeurope]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

[skip wooznum]

Nice

[Swowl]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

[Uncleeurope]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

Yeah, without providing an exact quote, it was meant to be a cobfidence claim, she wanted to tell someone that she was an alien. Soooo, yeah... I found it odd as well.

[skip wooznum]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

No, I don't think it is.

[mail-mi]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

No, I don't think it is.

I can concur with skip here

[skip wooznum]

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

Are we still doing 10-day days? For some reason I assumed it would be 7-day days starting today.

[skip wooznum]

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

Are we still doing 10-day days? For some reason I assumed it would be 7-day days starting today.

I know why I thought this. It's because that's how it was in falling skies 1.

[Swowl]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

No, I don't think it is.

I can concur with skip here

so you are both aware of the same information?

[skip wooznum]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

No, I don't think it is.

I can concur with skip here

so you are both aware of the same information?

I'd really prefer not to talk about it.
I'm sorry for being so blunt, but I've put thought into this, and this seems to be the best play.

[Swowl]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

No, I don't think it is.

I can concur with skip here

so you are both aware of the same information?

I'd really prefer not to talk about it.
I'm sorry for being so blunt, but I've put thought into this, and this seems to be the best play.

thats fine, I was looking for MailMi's response anyways.

[Swowl]

and not blunt. Its closed RMM I can see a world where I get it. But I am gonna keep prying a bit.

[faust]

Vote: shraeye

[faust]

I mean, I wonder if there is no red faction here.

Like, is yellow out only threat.

That would not be that case though. Who killed cayvie?

[faust]

Obvious question would be I think if anyone got the contract thing. If there is a reason not to claim that out, then whatever I guess hold off. But if the sign thing went out again, and someone can confirm that cayvie signed it... that is kind of a go ahead for probably do not sign that anymore.

I was in the petition QT with cayvie tonight. Noone signed.

[Swowl]

I mean, I wonder if there is no red faction here.

Like, is yellow out only threat.

That would not be that case though. Who killed cayvie?

do you see a downside in:
1) answering if anyone signed
2) other people in there coming out?

[faust]

I mean, I wonder if there is no red faction here.

Like, is yellow out only threat.

That would not be that case though. Who killed cayvie?

do you see a downside in:
1) answering if anyone signed
2) other people in there coming out?

I don't understand the question. Clearly not? Or I would not have claimed it.

[2.71828.....]

Cayvie's flip definitely confirms that they were playing up survivor to save the rest of their faction from scrutiny. Definitely think non-standard scum "aggressors" makes sense.

[2.71828.....]

But we still have to have a regular scum faction I think because they would have been the ones to kill cayvie

[2.71828.....]

Or are the humanists the primary scum faction and we have a SK?

[2.71828.....]

Except we would have probably had two deaths then

[2.71828.....]

Wait, I totally missed WCD died because of the color and not reading

[2.71828.....]

1. 2.7
2. MiX
3. LaLight -> 15. SpaceAnemone
4. WCD
5. cayvie
6. Galzria
7. faust
8. EFHW
9. Datswan
10. uncleeurope
11. pubby
12. shraeye
13. skip wooznum
14. mail-mi

So are we looking for more maroon scum or orange scum or another scum?

I think another orange scum makes the most sense.

[2.71828.....]

Although, maybe not?

if we count space as always having been in, which very much seems like the design...

15 players = 5 scum?

[faust]

Although, maybe not?

if we count space as always having been in, which very much seems like the design...

15 players = 5 scum?

From the list above, it seems more like Space entering the game was part of LaLight's role.

[faust]

I think we should look for red scum based on reactions to Galzria's claim.

From a red scum's perspective:
- they know Galzria isn't on their faction
- the other nightkill had been claimed by a person not on their faction, they have no reason to suspect multiball
- thus, they would probably believe Galz is more or less telling the truth
- there is no benefit in a Galzria lynch, unless it's to avoid one of their team getting lynched.

[2.71828.....]

Although, maybe not?

if we count space as always having been in, which very much seems like the design...

15 players = 5 scum?

From the list above, it seems more like Space entering the game was part of LaLight's role.

True, so Space may never have come in. Does this make it more or less likely for 5 scum?

Either way I think looking for another partner to Galzria/cayvie makes sense

[faust]

Reactions to Galzria's claim (which is here):

shraeye posts immediately afterwards on an unrelated note and doesn't give any opinion. Scummy, seems like waiting for what the consensus will be. shraeye later keeps pointing out that Galzria's claimed wincon isn't "Survivor" for some reason. Comes in late pushing for Didds.

Eddie asks lots of questions. Then supports keeping Galzria alive. This post is also interesting.

skip votes Galzria, argues for his lynch.

e moves on to discussing other things, and questions me on my Glazria read rather than saying something himself. Later says he'd be fine lynching Galzria, but isn't super into it.

EFHW points out some flaws in the claim, and keeps her vote on him. She later feels into a skip lynch, only to go back to Galz.

mail-mi believes Galzria.

Swan also asks loads of questions. Advocates EFHW over Galzria late into the Day, but is willing to go to Galz.

So, scummiest I think is shraeye, then probably e and Eddie, maybe mail-mi. There's also something about EFHW. Swan and skip towniest.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: EFHW

[skip wooznum]

Eddie asks lots of questions. Then supports keeping Galzria alive. This post is also interesting.

I agree that post is very interesting.

Faust is being too stubborn to be scum in my mind.

It’s a fairly simple obvservation, but worth noting.

Why would scum!faust not be stubborn? Or rather, why would scum!faust have any desire to lynch anybody else? He wouldn't want to lynch a partner - so by tunneling me he can avoid making reads on them - and he would much rather lynch me than a townie - whose green flip would leave him needing to justify his incorrect read. Like, I don't see why scum!faust wouldn't tunnel the *(&@ out of me.

Imo scum want you to live to another day if they can.

You are a free mislynch that they can use whenever they want. They also know you are more likely to be telling the truth than we have the ability to know, which means you are less threatening than a random town.

What you say means little to town at this point as well.

They would prefer to lynch:
anyone but you >> you >>>>>>> partner

How do you know scum knows galz was more likely to be telling the truth than you have the ability to know?

[skip wooznum]

1. 2.7
2. MiX
3. LaLight -> 15. SpaceAnemone
4. WCD
5. cayvie
6. Galzria
7. faust
8. EFHW
9. Datswan
10. uncleeurope
11. pubby
12. shraeye
13. skip wooznum
14. mail-mi

So are we looking for more maroon scum or orange scum or another scum?

I think another orange scum makes the most sense.

I don't think didds flipped scum. Her color was maroon, the default color for ash's mod posts. Also her flavor name is towny. It seems like she just didn't flip.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie asks lots of questions. Then supports keeping Galzria alive. This post is also interesting.

I agree that post is very interesting.

Faust is being too stubborn to be scum in my mind.

It’s a fairly simple obvservation, but worth noting.

Why would scum!faust not be stubborn? Or rather, why would scum!faust have any desire to lynch anybody else? He wouldn't want to lynch a partner - so by tunneling me he can avoid making reads on them - and he would much rather lynch me than a townie - whose green flip would leave him needing to justify his incorrect read. Like, I don't see why scum!faust wouldn't tunnel the *(&@ out of me.

Imo scum want you to live to another day if they can.

You are a free mislynch that they can use whenever they want. They also know you are more likely to be telling the truth than we have the ability to know, which means you are less threatening than a random town.

What you say means little to town at this point as well.

They would prefer to lynch:
anyone but you >> you >>>>>>> partner

How do you know scum knows galz was more likely to be telling the truth than you have the ability to know?

Scum knows Galz is not scum, therefor is less likely to be lying. It’s still possible, but us town people have to consider the possibility that Galz is scum.

That post is essentially Faust’s:

I think we should look for red scum based on reactions to Galzria's claim.

From a red scum's perspective:
- they know Galzria isn't on their faction
- the other nightkill had been claimed by a person not on their faction, they have no reason to suspect multiball
- thus, they would probably believe Galz is more or less telling the truth
- there is no benefit in a Galzria lynch, unless it's to avoid one of their team getting lynched.

They are saying the same thing.

[skip wooznum]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

[Uncleeurope]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

It was a read.

It’s what I do, it’s not an exact science. I can just read people’s minds.

Don’t believe me? Lynch EFHW and you will see the truth.

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, wait, you are wondering why I was talking as if Galz was telling the truth in that post.

Well, I was talking to Galz, which makes entertaining his scumminess much less productive. I was essentially trying to show why I thought Galz should think Faust was town based on what Galz knows.

From his perspective, I mean.

That, plus I trusted him.

[skip wooznum]

Ah

[EFHW]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

How do you know Eddie isn't scum?

[EFHW]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

It was a read.

It’s what I do, it’s not an exact science. I can just read people’s minds.

Don’t believe me? Lynch EFHW and you will see the truth.

What if you are picking up on my unconscious guilt and mistaking it for scumminess?

[Uncleeurope]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

It was a read.

It’s what I do, it’s not an exact science. I can just read people’s minds.

Don’t believe me? Lynch EFHW and you will see the truth.

What if you are picking up on my unconscious guilt and mistaking it for scumminess?

Have you become increasingly guilty between the games we have played together?

Because the guilt levels must be off the charts now.

[skip wooznum]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

How do you know Eddie isn't scum?

I mean, that's my point.

Unless you're saying I'm doing the same thing I'm grilling eddie for doing, namely, talking to a player of unknown alignment, and assuming, for the purpose of having a dialogue with them, that they know they are telling the truth, in which case, touché.

I don't think the situations are alike, but it doesnt really matter.

[EFHW]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

How do you know Eddie isn't scum?

I mean, that's my point.

Unless you're saying I'm doing the same thing I'm grilling eddie for doing, namely, talking to a player of unknown alignment, and assuming, for the purpose of having a dialogue with them, that they know they are telling the truth, in which case, touché.

I don't think the situations are alike, but it doesnt really matter.

Yes, same thing.

[EFHW]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

It was a read.

It’s what I do, it’s not an exact science. I can just read people’s minds.

Don’t believe me? Lynch EFHW and you will see the truth.

What if you are picking up on my unconscious guilt and mistaking it for scumminess?

Have you become increasingly guilty between the games we have played together?

Because the guilt levels must be off the charts now.

Mind reading is a very inexact science.  And I can't respond to your accusations in any meaningful way if that's all you have to go on.

[Uncleeurope]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

It was a read.

It’s what I do, it’s not an exact science. I can just read people’s minds.

Don’t believe me? Lynch EFHW and you will see the truth.

What if you are picking up on my unconscious guilt and mistaking it for scumminess?

Have you become increasingly guilty between the games we have played together?

Because the guilt levels must be off the charts now.

Mind reading is a very inexact science.  And I can't respond to your accusations in any meaningful way if that's all you have to go on.

Exactly, which makes it the perfect case. It’s foolproof. There is no counter.

[2.71828.....]

1. 2.7
2. MiX
3. LaLight -> 15. SpaceAnemone
4. WCD
5. cayvie
6. Galzria
7. faust
8. EFHW
9. Datswan
10. uncleeurope
11. pubby
12. shraeye
13. skip wooznum
14. mail-mi

So are we looking for more maroon scum or orange scum or another scum?

I think another orange scum makes the most sense.

I don't think didds flipped scum. Her color was maroon, the default color for ash's mod posts. Also her flavor name is towny. It seems like she just didn't flip.

Good point.

[2.71828.....]

But how did you know galz wasn't scum?

It was a read.

It’s what I do, it’s not an exact science. I can just read people’s minds.

Don’t believe me? Lynch EFHW and you will see the truth.

What if you are picking up on my unconscious guilt and mistaking it for scumminess?

Have you become increasingly guilty between the games we have played together?

Because the guilt levels must be off the charts now.

Mind reading is a very inexact science.  And I can't respond to your accusations in any meaningful way if that's all you have to go on.

Exactly, which makes it the perfect case. It’s foolproof. There is no counter.

Those are the best types of cases.

[EFHW]

Exactly, which makes it the perfect case. It’s foolproof. There is no counter.

Those are the best types of cases.

grrrr

[mail-mi]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

thats it?

also education info - probably time for some of that

No, I don't think it is.

I can concur with skip here

so you are both aware of the same information?

I mean, Im pretty sure.

[mail-mi]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

[faust]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

I mean, not that it's beyond scum!me to plan a fight with a partner, but I like to think that scum!me can come up with a fakeclaim that doesn't crumble that easily. I think the claim wasn't planned during N1, or it would have been better.

[mail-mi]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

I mean, not that it's beyond scum!me to plan a fight with a partner, but I like to think that scum!me can come up with a fakeclaim that doesn't crumble that easily. I think the claim wasn't planned during N1, or it would have been better.

Even if it wasn't planned, I can still see you turning on partner Galz like that.

[EFHW]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

I mean, not that it's beyond scum!me to plan a fight with a partner, but I like to think that scum!me can come up with a fakeclaim that doesn't crumble that easily. I think the claim wasn't planned during N1, or it would have been better.

Even if it wasn't planned, I can still see you turning on partner Galz like that.

Have you looked at the faust-cayvie interactions?

[mail-mi]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

I mean, not that it's beyond scum!me to plan a fight with a partner, but I like to think that scum!me can come up with a fakeclaim that doesn't crumble that easily. I think the claim wasn't planned during N1, or it would have been better.

Even if it wasn't planned, I can still see you turning on partner Galz like that.

Have you looked at the faust-cayvie interactions?

No, not yet, I'm only commenting on faust-galz right now. Haven't gotten the chance to look that over yet.

[SpaceAnemone]

I mean, I wonder if there is no red faction here.

Like, is yellow out only threat.

That would not be that case though. Who killed cayvie?

Maybe Cayvie did?

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

[faust]

I mean, I wonder if there is no red faction here.

Like, is yellow out only threat.

That would not be that case though. Who killed cayvie?

Maybe Cayvie did?

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

Considering that cayvie flipped scum, I have certain reservations about taking that claim at face value.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, not being dead is great. I need to be on some wagons today so you guys get better POE later on.

What's the big case on EFHW? I find it interesting that she's somoene that both our flipped Delusional Humanists were voting for quite a lot in D2. Other than that, Galz and Cayvie weren't really seeming to coordinate on votes other than a bit of D1 distancing and then both being on the MiX wagon for a bit.

[SpaceAnemone]

like, sure, i'll just claim this part: one of my powers is a 1-shot vig. nice, right? except it only kills the person 25% of the time, and sometimes my gun reloads? oh and i'm also warned that guns are dangerous and i might accidentally shoot myself. so that's neat. oh, also, it's 75% "loud", which means that even if the person doesn't die, they know i tried to shoot them.

Considering that cayvie flipped scum, I have certain reservations about taking that claim at face value.

I think the fakeclaim must have been constructed partly in response to the actual role though. I assume she'd have wanted to cover against possible investigative actions that could out pieces of her role that would sound incriminating, like having a gun...

[skip wooznum]

The part cayvie claimed about a 25% kill rate was almost certainly a lie, as she's now 2 for 2.

The part about shooting herself was also probably a lie, because as scum that's an extremely weak gun to have.

[faust]

The part cayvie claimed about a 25% kill rate was almost certainly a lie, as she's now 2 for 2.

The part about shooting herself was also probably a lie, because as scum that's an extremely weak gun to have.

The part about potentially being Loud seems like cover though. I guess it doesn't matter too much. Also since cayvie and Galzria flipped with the same role, I expect that faction's powers to all be factional.

Not sure whether it matters since there's a good chance they're all dead.

[Swowl]

Although, maybe not?

if we count space as always having been in, which very much seems like the design...

15 players = 5 scum?

might be high.
first off Space could of been built into LL's role like faust said. But who knows for real.
Second... Galz and Cayvie could actually of been an off brand survivor type role. We have no way of knowing.
... But if they were actually survivor ish, and Space was part of LL's role...
That is 14 - 2 non-ish alignments = 12 other players.... Its an RMM so who the hell knows but I think it is more like 3 skum... maybe maybe maybe 4. Like 2xRED and 1x SK or 3XRED or some variant of that.

So yeah... essentially I think we are looking for another color here.

[Swowl]

also the only issue with Cayvie being killed by whatever the skum faction(s) are.... they were just "killed" not "shot and killed". As that seems to be an important modifier in the texts of flips... IDK just kind of pointing it out.

Someone like a page back brought up the idea of RED looking at cayvie and killing there and ect ect... which I agreed with. Except for they were not "shot". Which is weird.

[mail-mi]

Although, maybe not?

if we count space as always having been in, which very much seems like the design...

15 players = 5 scum?

might be high.
first off Space could of been built into LL's role like faust said. But who knows for real.
Second... Galz and Cayvie could actually of been an off brand survivor type role. We have no way of knowing.
... But if they were actually survivor ish, and Space was part of LL's role...
That is 14 - 2 non-ish alignments = 12 other players.... Its an RMM so who the hell knows but I think it is more like 3 skum... maybe maybe maybe 4. Like 2xRED and 1x SK or 3XRED or some variant of that.

So yeah... essentially I think we are looking for another color here.

Do you think we're looking for another partner for Galz and cayvie at all?

That's where I'm going to look at least for now, because that's one scum faction we know exists. They could have killed MiX and WCD, and we have an SK that's rampaging around or something that killed LL and cayvie.

and my current top candidate for their partner is faust, based on interactions with galz. EFHW is up there on the scumminess radar, but not necessarily as a partner to cayvie/galz.

[Swowl]

Although, maybe not?

if we count space as always having been in, which very much seems like the design...

15 players = 5 scum?

might be high.
first off Space could of been built into LL's role like faust said. But who knows for real.
Second... Galz and Cayvie could actually of been an off brand survivor type role. We have no way of knowing.
... But if they were actually survivor ish, and Space was part of LL's role...
That is 14 - 2 non-ish alignments = 12 other players.... Its an RMM so who the hell knows but I think it is more like 3 skum... maybe maybe maybe 4. Like 2xRED and 1x SK or 3XRED or some variant of that.

So yeah... essentially I think we are looking for another color here.

Do you think we're looking for another partner for Galz and cayvie at all?

That's where I'm going to look at least for now, because that's one scum faction we know exists. They could have killed MiX and WCD, and we have an SK that's rampaging around or something that killed LL and cayvie.

and my current top candidate for their partner is faust, based on interactions with galz. EFHW is up there on the scumminess radar, but not necessarily as a partner to cayvie/galz.

k I am fine with splitting work with you, I can look at it my way and you can your way and we can compare notes or whatever.

But 2 distinctions of differences in our POVs from what I can see..

1) Could be Survivors still - I am absolutely not sold that they were a form of skum. I mean, I suppose I lean that way, but I am at the like let's say 70% certainty level, not 100%. While I do not know what the explanations are, there could be a world in which we could explain kills here without them being a part of the equation.

2) faust and Galz  fight - They are absolutely capable of putting on a show like that. In fact, if they are skum together, they probably would go out of their way to do it because they always but heads when they are town/town or town/skum anyways. That being said.... I got pretty genuine vibes off of there back and forth.

3) Kill Selection - Additionally, if they are a team, then cayvie was part of that team too. Cayvie died... and they shot... WCD? I don't get that one. There were a lot of people that were willing to go for Didds yesterday, and while Galz flipping that color would not be great.... they also did not know Cayvie was gonna flip. So selling that flip as survivor and "galz was telling the truth" is not hard - which would then lead to Didds as an easy set up wagon. I would think if they were a skum team of 3 they would be more inclined to aim at like you/Skip for example.

Either way - I am gonna look at it as a "searching for Red Team" and I will get back in a bit.

[faust]

3) Kill Selection - Additionally, if they are a team, then cayvie was part of that team too. Cayvie died... and they shot... WCD? I don't get that one. There were a lot of people that were willing to go for Didds yesterday, and while Galz flipping that color would not be great.... they also did not know Cayvie was gonna flip. So selling that flip as survivor and "galz was telling the truth" is not hard - which would then lead to Didds as an easy set up wagon. I would think if they were a skum team of 3 they would be more inclined to aim at like you/Skip for example.

I mean - that one isn't hard to figure out. Didds flipped Alien, presumably they learned that she was an Alien somehow and they need to kill the Aliens.

[mail-mi]

1) Could be Survivors still - I am absolutely not sold that they were a form of skum. I mean, I suppose I lean that way, but I am at the like let's say 70% certainty level, not 100%. While I do not know what the explanations are, there could be a world in which we could explain kills here without them being a part of the equation.

2) faust and Galz  fight - They are absolutely capable of putting on a show like that. In fact, if they are skum together, they probably would go out of their way to do it because they always but heads when they are town/town or town/skum anyways. That being said.... I got pretty genuine vibes off of there back and forth.

3) Kill Selection - Additionally, if they are a team, then cayvie was part of that team too. Cayvie died... and they shot... WCD? I don't get that one. There were a lot of people that were willing to go for Didds yesterday, and while Galz flipping that color would not be great.... they also did not know Cayvie was gonna flip. So selling that flip as survivor and "galz was telling the truth" is not hard - which would then lead to Didds as an easy set up wagon. I would think if they were a skum team of 3 they would be more inclined to aim at like you/Skip for example.

Either way - I am gonna look at it as a "searching for Red Team" and I will get back in a bit.

1) I'm not discounting the fact that they could be survivors--except here's the thing. Like shraeye kept saying, Galz's described role was only Survivor-esque. I presume their wincon to be something like "if one member of the faction is alive and all Aliens are dead, you win" so basically anti-alien scum.

2) I can see it either way. I lean more toward faked, now that I know Galz was lying about at least part of his role.

3) The orange team was probably looking for red-team Aliens. Galz had such a strong read on WCD that cayvie probably agreed with, and cayvie shot her looking for red!Aliens. pretty simple explanation.

PPE: what Faust said.

[Uncleeurope]

3) Kill Selection - Additionally, if they are a team, then cayvie was part of that team too. Cayvie died... and they shot... WCD? I don't get that one. There were a lot of people that were willing to go for Didds yesterday, and while Galz flipping that color would not be great.... they also did not know Cayvie was gonna flip. So selling that flip as survivor and "galz was telling the truth" is not hard - which would then lead to Didds as an easy set up wagon. I would think if they were a skum team of 3 they would be more inclined to aim at like you/Skip for example.

I mean - that one isn't hard to figure out. Didds flipped Alien, presumably they learned that she was an Alien somehow and they need to kill the Aliens.

Galz being an Alien cop and Cayvie being the Alien hunter is my current thought.

[Swowl]

ok I will give you that all of that checks out fairly well.
That would explain the weak af case galz made. My theory at the time was he would never make it as skum because it was such BS... but if he thought there was a chance he claims and gets WCD lynched and then they flip as skum... yeah that would of worked fairly heavy in their favor.

They still don't technically NEED to of had the ability to kill... but I can see how that could be factored in and make sense.

[shraeye]

Obvious question would be I think if anyone got the contract thing. If there is a reason not to claim that out, then whatever I guess hold off.

I am all for everyone claiming that.

I was not invited to a petition signing qt last night.

I got nothing last night either.

[shraeye]

Cayvie claimed Alien.

So lies from Galz, lies from Cayvie.  I'm willing to guess that Delusional Humanist is in fact a faction.

[shraeye]

But we still have to have a regular scum faction I think because they would have been the ones to kill cayvie

Does SK make sense here?

[shraeye]

1. 2.7
2. MiX
3. LaLight -> 15. SpaceAnemone
4. WCD
5. cayvie
6. Galzria
7. faust
8. EFHW
9. Datswan
10. uncleeurope
11. pubby
12. shraeye
13. skip wooznum
14. mail-mi

So are we looking for more maroon scum or orange scum or another scum?

I think another orange scum makes the most sense.

Did LaLight turn into Space?  I thought that Space just showed up?

[shraeye]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

I mean, not that it's beyond scum!me to plan a fight with a partner, but I like to think that scum!me can come up with a fakeclaim that doesn't crumble that easily. I think the claim wasn't planned during N1, or it would have been better.

So you're saying, you would totally plan a fight.  But that you can't be scum because Galz's claim was bad...

I don't follow that.

[shraeye]

Although, maybe not?

if we count space as always having been in, which very much seems like the design...

15 players = 5 scum?

first off Space could of been built into LL's role like faust said. But who knows for real.

Space, do YOU know for real?  Maybe it's unclear, and maybe it doesn't matter, and maybe you don't want to answer.  But clearly it's got people thinking.

[mail-mi]

1. 2.7
2. MiX
3. LaLight -> 15. SpaceAnemone
4. WCD
5. cayvie
6. Galzria
7. faust
8. EFHW
9. Datswan
10. uncleeurope
11. pubby
12. shraeye
13. skip wooznum
14. mail-mi

So are we looking for more maroon scum or orange scum or another scum?

I think another orange scum makes the most sense.

Did LaLight turn into Space?  I thought that Space just showed up?

e quoted the starting post, that's how it's listed in the starting post.

[shraeye]

e quoted the starting post, that's how it's listed in the starting post.

Oh, I thougth that list was his own constrution.  Nevermind, rescind my confusion.

[shraeye]

1) Could be Survivors still - I am absolutely not sold that they were a form of skum. I mean, I suppose I lean that way, but I am at the like let's say 70% certainty level, not 100%. While I do not know what the explanations are, there could be a world in which we could explain kills here without them being a part of the equation.

Galz wasn't a survivor yestrday, and he's definitely not survivor-with-teammate today.

I'm going back to see who kept saying Galz was a survivor.  I think that's a stance that a possible second faction would take.  If I were in a secret baddie club, and somebody came out saying "I'm survivor", my instinct would be to believe them instead of saying "what if they're also on a bad-guy team??"

[Swowl]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

I mean, not that it's beyond scum!me to plan a fight with a partner, but I like to think that scum!me can come up with a fakeclaim that doesn't crumble that easily. I think the claim wasn't planned during N1, or it would have been better.

So you're saying, you would totally plan a fight.  But that you can't be scum because Galz's claim was bad...

I don't follow that.

it doesn't make sense in the sense that faust can't be skum. it checks out in the sense that faust/galz wouldn't have had galz have done such an oddball off claim that ends in his lynch.

[Swowl]

so like... skum faust possible. Galz/Faust probably not.

[Swowl]

1) Could be Survivors still - I am absolutely not sold that they were a form of skum. I mean, I suppose I lean that way, but I am at the like let's say 70% certainty level, not 100%. While I do not know what the explanations are, there could be a world in which we could explain kills here without them being a part of the equation.

Galz wasn't a survivor yestrday, and he's definitely not survivor-with-teammate today.

I'm going back to see who kept saying Galz was a survivor.  I think that's a stance that a possible second faction would take.  If I were in a secret baddie club, and somebody came out saying "I'm survivor", my instinct would be to believe them instead of saying "what if they're also on a bad-guy team??"

Kind of... unless we think skum faction of aliens is a thing... in which case it would be the people pushing for his lynch.

[shraeye]

1) Could be Survivors still - I am absolutely not sold that they were a form of skum. I mean, I suppose I lean that way, but I am at the like let's say 70% certainty level, not 100%. While I do not know what the explanations are, there could be a world in which we could explain kills here without them being a part of the equation.

Galz wasn't a survivor yestrday, and he's definitely not survivor-with-teammate today.

I'm going back to see who kept saying Galz was a survivor.  I think that's a stance that a possible second faction would take.  If I were in a secret baddie club, and somebody came out saying "I'm survivor", my instinct would be to believe them instead of saying "what if they're also on a bad-guy team??"

Kind of... unless we think skum faction of aliens is a thing... in which case it would be the people pushing for his lynch.

Ah, I could actually see that. 

[skip wooznum]

vote: shraye

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.1

EFHW (2): mail-mi, uncle
shraeye (2): faust, skip

Not Voting (9): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, DatSwan, shraeye

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[EFHW]

It's still early in the day. But I'm good with vote: Shraeye

[faust]

shraeye, how often do you check your personal QT?

[Uncleeurope]

Bahaha.

[SpaceAnemone]

The loss of anyone is a reason for grief.  There are some -- friends, family -- that we never expect to lose.  It is their losses that are the hardest to accept.

Matt Mason's body lies in repose, and in the dawning light he could be sleeping if you were not to pay attention.  But his chest does not move, and almost everyone has a broken heart.

A stranger nears the body, tears streaming down her face.  She takes Matt Mason's cold hand and sits next to him.  She leans forward and whispers to him, "I will never forget you.  I will avenge you.  I promise."

She turns and looks at the rest of the group.  "I'm Rita.  And I do not forgive."


SpaceAnemone has joined the game!  They are Rita, the Forgotten Family Friend.

The flavour text from when I joined the game also links my role to LL's. I don't have anything that tells me the exact mechanism, though. I do know that I wasn't guarnteed to be needed in the game, so having my appearance tied to another's role seems very plausible.

[shraeye]

shraeye, how often do you check your personal QT?

I'm going to assume Uncle is also laughing at this absurd question. I check it enough.  How often do YOU check your personal QT?

[shraeye]

I'm also assuming that y'all are going to drop a reason for these votes eventually

[faust]

shraeye, how often do you check your personal QT?

I'm going to assume Uncle is also laughing at this absurd question. I check it enough.  How often do YOU check your personal QT?

So you looked in it and did not find an invitation to a QT with me?

[faust]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

[shraeye]

shraeye, how often do you check your personal QT?

I'm going to assume Uncle is also laughing at this absurd question. I check it enough.  How often do YOU check your personal QT?

So you looked in it and did not find an invitation to a QT with me?

Uhh, nope

[faust]

Cool. Let's lynch shraeye.

[shraeye]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

you definitelyb don't have a result on me

[faust]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

you definitelyb don't have a result on me

Convincing.

[faust]

For what it's worth, I also think it is reasonable to assume that someone on shraeye's team had access to the petition QT last night, and chose not to post in it.

[skip wooznum]

I'm also assuming that y'all are going to drop a reason for these votes eventually

I can't speak for efhw, but I voted you because you're scum.

[shraeye]

classy answer skip.  wrong, but classy.

Also, found fausts QT, he's a green-text dude.  But still wrong.

[SpaceAnemone]

shraeye, how often do you check your personal QT?

I'm going to assume Uncle is also laughing at this absurd question. I check it enough.  How often do YOU check your personal QT?

So you looked in it and did not find an invitation to a QT with me?

Uhh, nope

@faust, are you claiming that a QT definitely existed, and that you have what you consider to be solid evidence that the mod invited Shraeye to it too?

Without saying how or why the QT exists, or what other info may been posted in it, do you think it's possible Shraeye was blocked in such a way that the QT exists but he was not invited to it? In fact, you're welcome just to put a likelihood on how likely that scenario is given your understanding of the game.

PPE: hmm.. so now Shraeye corroborates what faust says?

[SpaceAnemone]

For what it's worth, I also think it is reasonable to assume that someone on shraeye's team had access to the petition QT last night, and chose not to post in it.

I have an alternative hypothesis on this one.

If there is one, and they're still alive, would the silent party on N1 like to come forward now?

[faust]

@faust, are you claiming that a QT definitely existed, and that you have what you consider to be solid evidence that the mod invited Shraeye to it too?

Without saying how or why the QT exists, or what other info may been posted in it, do you think it's possible Shraeye was blocked in such a way that the QT exists but he was not invited to it? In fact, you're welcome just to put a likelihood on how likely that scenario is given your understanding of the game.

PPE: hmm.. so now Shraeye corroborates what faust says?

I assume this is no longer relevant now, since shraeye supports my claim, and my being town.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

Picking one of a number of Mail-mi posts to quote here. He seems convinced that faust is on the yellow-orange-flipping faction.

However, with Shraeye now claiming that faust is "a green-text dude", I think faust either has to be town, or he and Shraeye have to share a faction. If the latter, I think they're far more likely to be a different faction to Galz-Cayvie.

@Mail-mi, what's your thinking on Shraeye and faust here? Didn't you think Shraeye was scummy earlier anyway?

[EFHW]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

you definitelyb don't have a result on me

Are you claiming ascetic?

[EFHW]

@faust - Is there some way your qt invitation confirms you as town?

[faust]

@faust - Is there some way your qt invitation confirms you as town?

Yes.

[skip wooznum]

It may be worth noting that scum is probably more likely to neglect their personal qt.

[2.71828.....]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

Nice.

Vote: shraeye

[shraeye]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

you definitelyb don't have a result on me

Are you claiming ascetic?

I'm waiting for faust to confirm he has no result on me.

[shraeye]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

Nice.

Vote: shraeye

That is a scummy scummy vote, son.

[2.71828.....]

This is absurd. shraeye is scum. I know this through my role power.

you definitelyb don't have a result on me

Are you claiming ascetic?

I'm waiting for faust to confirm he has no result on me.

So you think faust is lying town, out just scum?

classy answer skip.  wrong, but classy.

Also, found fausts QT, he's a green-text dude.  But still wrong.

[shraeye]

So you think faust is lying town, out just scum?

I haven't cast judgement yet, but those are not the only options.

I am currently having discussions with faust.

[faust]

I have heard out shraeye's claim in our QT. He is lying. We should lynch him.

[shraeye]

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

[shraeye]

He does not, in ANY way, have a result on me.

[shraeye]

I've made my judgement.  Faust is still wrong (and, unsurprisingly, stubborn about it)


If anybody is interested, I can cancel the upcoming night phase.  I'll do it as a trade for people not believing faust.

[shraeye]

I have heard out shraeye's claim in our QT. He is lying.

Notice that faust is no longer saying "he is scum"

[faust]

I have heard out shraeye's claim in our QT. He is lying.

Notice that faust is no longer saying "he is scum"

He is scum.

[shraeye]

Cool, then still wrong.

[2.71828.....]

I have heard out shraeye's claim in our QT. He is lying.

Notice that faust is no longer saying "he is scum"

So you are admitting to be lying town?

[2.71828.....]

Oh, and that was L-1

[shraeye]

I am not lying town. 
A) not lying (what makes you think that?) and
B) Survivor wincon (did you miss that?)

[2.71828.....]

I am not lying town. 
A) not lying (what makes you think that?) and
B) Survivor wincon (did you miss that?)

Hmmm, I did miss (B)

[2.71828.....]

I am not lying town. 
A) not lying (what makes you think that?) and
B) Survivor wincon (did you miss that?)

And your response to faust made me think you were admitting to lying

I have heard out shraeye's claim in our QT. He is lying.

Notice that faust is no longer saying "he is scum"

You don't argue the "he is lying" just say you aren't scum

[2.71828.....]

So what color will you flip?

Not green, not orange, not red.....?

[shraeye]

I never said that faust was lying.  I think that he thinks he's right.
It's clear to me that he is making incorrect assumptions, and doesn't care to correct them.


The color I'll flip was not clear to me, and ash wouldn't clarify.  I'm suspecting it's a bit like Didds.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Uncleeurope
Shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Shraeye, skip wooznum

[2.71828.....]

Space Count

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Uncleeurope
Shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Shraeye, skip wooznum

Vote Count: 3.1

EFHW (2): mail-mi, uncle
shraeye (2): faust, skip

Not Voting (9): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, DatSwan, shraeye

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

Did skip change their vote?

[mail-mi]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

Picking one of a number of Mail-mi posts to quote here. He seems convinced that faust is on the yellow-orange-flipping faction.

However, with Shraeye now claiming that faust is "a green-text dude", I think faust either has to be town, or he and Shraeye have to share a faction. If the latter, I think they're far more likely to be a different faction to Galz-Cayvie.

@Mail-mi, what's your thinking on Shraeye and faust here? Didn't you think Shraeye was scummy earlier anyway?

Well it certainly changes things. I don't believe Faust is conf!town here, but it does lessen my scum read on him. Also it seems like Shraeye is claiming survivor? How many nontown nonscum people do we have in this game?
This leads me to further believe that there is no redteam, though that seems misleading by Ash, so I could be wrong.

[mail-mi]

I never said that faust was lying.  I think that he thinks he's right.
It's clear to me that he is making incorrect assumptions, and doesn't care to correct them.


The color I'll flip was not clear to me, and ash wouldn't clarify.  I'm suspecting it's a bit like Didds.

I'd like to hear your full claim. I'm.sure there are others along with me.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Uncleeurope
Shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Shraeye, skip wooznum

Vote Count: 3.1

EFHW (2): mail-mi, uncle
shraeye (2): faust, skip

Not Voting (9): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, DatSwan, shraeye

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

Did skip change their vote?

Oh, right! Thank you! My counter missed Skip's vote because the misspelling wasn't an alias I'd allowed for Shraeye, and then I missed the warning that threw in my terminal :-P


New Space Count

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Uncleeurope
Shraeye (4): faust, skip wooznum, EFHW, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Shraeye

[SpaceAnemone]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

Picking one of a number of Mail-mi posts to quote here. He seems convinced that faust is on the yellow-orange-flipping faction.

However, with Shraeye now claiming that faust is "a green-text dude", I think faust either has to be town, or he and Shraeye have to share a faction. If the latter, I think they're far more likely to be a different faction to Galz-Cayvie.

@Mail-mi, what's your thinking on Shraeye and faust here? Didn't you think Shraeye was scummy earlier anyway?

Well it certainly changes things. I don't believe Faust is conf!town here, but it does lessen my scum read on him. Also it seems like Shraeye is claiming survivor? How many nontown nonscum people do we have in this game?
This leads me to further believe that there is no redteam, though that seems misleading by Ash, so I could be wrong.

That just seems hedgy.

If faust is scum, then he's probably a non-orange flavour. Why does that type of scum want to go after someone who's a survivor? Do you reckon it fits in with faust's factions win-con more than trying to kill off town?

Where does WCD's flip fit in your no-redteam theory? Note that Shraeye has hypothesised that he may flip in the same sort of way.

[SpaceAnemone]

Before this day ends, @faust, do you think with Cayvie's death the petition QT will happen again tonight? Do you think there's any risk to town inherent in that?

Fun extra info: I was the other person in the QT last night, but I forgot to check my QT at all until it was too late. About a quarter of the way through the posts, Cayvie said something that seemed to be the opposite of what I'd expected. It read as odd to me then, and even moreso now, given her flip. Did you pick up on that, and if so, do you want to discuss it?

[mail-mi]

I think Faust may be our last orange scum. I can totally see him and Galz planning a fake fight for yesterday.

Picking one of a number of Mail-mi posts to quote here. He seems convinced that faust is on the yellow-orange-flipping faction.

However, with Shraeye now claiming that faust is "a green-text dude", I think faust either has to be town, or he and Shraeye have to share a faction. If the latter, I think they're far more likely to be a different faction to Galz-Cayvie.

@Mail-mi, what's your thinking on Shraeye and faust here? Didn't you think Shraeye was scummy earlier anyway?

Well it certainly changes things. I don't believe Faust is conf!town here, but it does lessen my scum read on him. Also it seems like Shraeye is claiming survivor? How many nontown nonscum people do we have in this game?
This leads me to further believe that there is no redteam, though that seems misleading by Ash, so I could be wrong.

That just seems hedgy.

If faust is scum, then he's probably a non-orange flavour. Why does that type of scum want to go after someone who's a survivor? Do you reckon it fits in with faust's factions win-con more than trying to kill off town?

Where does WCD's flip fit in your no-redteam theory? Note that Shraeye has hypothesised that he may flip in the same sort of way.

I still think Faust is scummy, especially because it seems like Shraeye may only have said it because of this:

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

So I'm not considering Faust confirmed green text until I get a QT that says from Ash "faust is greentext."

I don't understand the second question? It fits because in the case of a redteam existing, there have been so many nonred nongreen flips. I'm hedgy on it because I think not having a redteam would be misleading by the mod (since that's the default mafia color) and I'm not sure that Ash would do that.

[faust]

I'd like to hear your full claim. I'm.sure there are others along with me.

Let's speed that up, here's what he claimed to me:

- His name is The Last Princess, he's an Alien with Survivor wincon
- Someone is out there hunting for him, but he doesn't know who
- actions targeting him fail, unless 2 actions target him in the same night, in which case he dies.
- he has a kill, day or night, that only works on the player who's hunting him, and is publicly announced when used, no matter whether it's successful
- he can cancel a Day or Night phase, I assume only once
- he didn't see my QT until I pointed it out because he doesn't check his QT
- nothing else happened to him over the course of the game

[2.71828.....]

I'd like to hear your full claim. I'm.sure there are others along with me.

Let's speed that up, here's what he claimed to me:

- His name is The Last Princess, he's an Alien with Survivor wincon
- Someone is out there hunting for him, but he doesn't know who
- actions targeting him fail, unless 2 actions target him in the same night, in which case he dies.
- he has a kill, day or night, that only works on the player who's hunting him, and is publicly announced when used, no matter whether it's successful
- he can cancel a Day or Night phase, I assume only once
- he didn't see my QT until I pointed it out because he doesn't check his QT
- nothing else happened to him over the course of the game

That is quite the role

[faust]

Before this day ends, @faust, do you think with Cayvie's death the petition QT will happen again tonight? Do you think there's any risk to town inherent in that?

Fun extra info: I was the other person in the QT last night, but I forgot to check my QT at all until it was too late. About a quarter of the way through the posts, Cayvie said something that seemed to be the opposite of what I'd expected. It read as odd to me then, and even moreso now, given her flip. Did you pick up on that, and if so, do you want to discuss it?

Not sure. I think if it does, we should take that as indication that another member of that faction is still alive. I think as long as we don't sign it, is should not be dangerous. There's a little thing that worries me which is that twice, a player in the QT has died, but the second was cayvie herself, so it doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of this being their nightkill.

I don't think I picked up on it then, but going back I see a post that could be it.

[mail-mi]

I'd like to hear your full claim. I'm.sure there are others along with me.

Let's speed that up, here's what he claimed to me:

- His name is The Last Princess, he's an Alien with Survivor wincon
- Someone is out there hunting for him, but he doesn't know who
- actions targeting him fail, unless 2 actions target him in the same night, in which case he dies.
- he has a kill, day or night, that only works on the player who's hunting him, and is publicly announced when used, no matter whether it's successful
- he can cancel a Day or Night phase, I assume only once
- he didn't see my QT until I pointed it out because he doesn't check his QT
- nothing else happened to him over the course of the game

So I would assume that Galz/cayvie was the hunter? Probably? @shraeye why didn't you use your shot on Galz?

[faust]

I'd like to hear your full claim. I'm.sure there are others along with me.

Let's speed that up, here's what he claimed to me:

- His name is The Last Princess, he's an Alien with Survivor wincon
- Someone is out there hunting for him, but he doesn't know who
- actions targeting him fail, unless 2 actions target him in the same night, in which case he dies.
- he has a kill, day or night, that only works on the player who's hunting him, and is publicly announced when used, no matter whether it's successful
- he can cancel a Day or Night phase, I assume only once
- he didn't see my QT until I pointed it out because he doesn't check his QT
- nothing else happened to him over the course of the game

So I would assume that Galz/cayvie was the hunter? Probably? @shraeye why didn't you use your shot on Galz?

I would assume it's a lie.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'd like to hear your full claim. I'm.sure there are others along with me.

Let's speed that up, here's what he claimed to me:

- His name is The Last Princess, he's an Alien with Survivor wincon
- Someone is out there hunting for him, but he doesn't know who
- actions targeting him fail, unless 2 actions target him in the same night, in which case he dies.
- he has a kill, day or night, that only works on the player who's hunting him, and is publicly announced when used, no matter whether it's successful
- he can cancel a Day or Night phase, I assume only once
- he didn't see my QT until I pointed it out because he doesn't check his QT
- nothing else happened to him over the course of the game

If that's true, and you've now outed his role in the main thread, there's no downside to him taking a pot shot at someone he thinks is hunting him. That could clear him, though I assume he'll say it's a miscommunication, right?

@Shraeye, how much of the stuff faust has said do you confirm?

[faust]

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

[faust]

But also as far as public information is concerned, I do not know how shraeye could claim this and at the same time be unaware of our shared QT:

Obvious question would be I think if anyone got the contract thing. If there is a reason not to claim that out, then whatever I guess hold off.

I am all for everyone claiming that.

I was not invited to a petition signing qt last night.

I got nothing last night either.

[skip wooznum]

unvote I'll soon have time to deal with this but I don't want a hammer before I read everything.

[skip wooznum]

Ok, caught up. ish.

@shraeye,

1)Do you know faust is town, or did you say he was town without knowing if it was true, to avoid death?
2)Do you know the flavor name of your hunter/ are you notified if your hunter has died?
3)Why have you not already stopped a night phase?
4)Do killing actions targeting you fail as well (unless there are 2 in one night)?




@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

[EFHW]

@faust, did you blackmail Shraeye?

[faust]

@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

No. No.

@faust, did you blackmail Shraeye?

Yes.

[mail-mi]

@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

No. No.

@faust, did you blackmail Shraeye?

Yes.

Awesome. vote: faust

[EFHW]

@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

No. No.

@faust, did you blackmail Shraeye?

Yes.

How were you planning to make him die?

[2.71828.....]

@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

No. No.

@faust, did you blackmail Shraeye?

Yes.

Awesome. vote: faust

What is this blackmail thing?

[2.71828.....]

I did a quick search and blackmail is first mentioned anywhere in the thread by EFHW. Special qt knowledge something?

[skip wooznum]

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

[2.71828.....]

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

I should really read more carefully. I blame the fact that I was trying to read while entertaining a 4 month old

[2.71828.....]

Ok, I reread shraeye.

It was interesting that they kept harping on the fact that Galzria did not claim survivor. What I am confused about is why, if they were so convinced that Galzria was not a survivor, that they weren't voting Galzria?

Like, the vote record is pretty clear. There was a vote on Galzria, then onto skip to stay.

Also their D1 vote on MiX very much read "not my faction, sure let's lynch"

As it all together and I am comfortable with a shraeye vote even with all the new stuff coming out

[2.71828.....]

Ok, caught up. ish.

@shraeye,

1)Do you know faust is town, or did you say he was town without knowing if it was true, to avoid death?
2)Do you know the flavor name of your hunter/ are you notified if your hunter has died?
3)Why have you not already stopped a night phase?
4)Do killing actions targeting you fail as well (unless there are 2 in one night)?




@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

Because on your point #3, I feel like stopping a night before now would have been the townie thing to do. Except then partners can't kill people

[2.71828.....]

Or they can't kill someone. That list of powers could be SK?

I don't know, I tried to piece together what scum we have left earlier today and I just give up.

I do think shraeye could totally flip orange though

[skip wooznum]

Ok, caught up. ish.

@shraeye,

1)Do you know faust is town, or did you say he was town without knowing if it was true, to avoid death?
2)Do you know the flavor name of your hunter/ are you notified if your hunter has died?
3)Why have you not already stopped a night phase?
4)Do killing actions targeting you fail as well (unless there are 2 in one night)?




@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

Because on your point #3, I feel like stopping a night before now would have been the townie thing to do. Except then partners can't kill people

I don't quite follow you. Are you agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, answering my question?

[2.71828.....]

Ok, caught up. ish.

@shraeye,

1)Do you know faust is town, or did you say he was town without knowing if it was true, to avoid death?
2)Do you know the flavor name of your hunter/ are you notified if your hunter has died?
3)Why have you not already stopped a night phase?
4)Do killing actions targeting you fail as well (unless there are 2 in one night)?




@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

Because on your point #3, I feel like stopping a night before now would have been the townie thing to do. Except then partners can't kill people

I don't quite follow you. Are you agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, answering my question?

I am agreeing with the question posed to shraeye

[Swowl]

Hmmm cancelling the night phase could potentially pair with the "at the break of dawn" aspect of the win con we were discussing at the beginning of the game. Not relevant to this right now... just makes it more believable.

[Swowl]

Shraeye - how do you know faust is a green text dude?

[Swowl]

I'd like to hear your full claim. I'm.sure there are others along with me.

Let's speed that up, here's what he claimed to me:

- His name is The Last Princess, he's an Alien with Survivor wincon
- Someone is out there hunting for him, but he doesn't know who
- actions targeting him fail, unless 2 actions target him in the same night, in which case he dies.
- he has a kill, day or night, that only works on the player who's hunting him, and is publicly announced when used, no matter whether it's successful
- he can cancel a Day or Night phase, I assume only once
- he didn't see my QT until I pointed it out because he doesn't check his QT
- nothing else happened to him over the course of the game

So I would assume that Galz/cayvie was the hunter? Probably? @shraeye why didn't you use your shot on Galz?

bolded - that is a fantastic question.

[2.71828.....]

I had to have this pointed out to me as well:

Shraeye - how do you know faust is a green text dude?

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

[skip wooznum]

I can't seem to find any falling skies character called the last princess.

[mail-mi]

I am happy with a shraeye or Faust lynch today. I don't think either of them are greentext.

[faust]

@faust,

1)Did you target shraeye last night?

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

2)Am I correct in understanding from the above quote that you already knew last night that shraeye is lying?

No. No.

@faust, did you blackmail Shraeye?

Yes.

How were you planning to make him die?

I was planning to get him lynched. Still am.

[faust]

I had to have this pointed out to me as well:

Shraeye - how do you know faust is a green text dude?

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

I did force him to claim this, but that doesn't mean it wasn't true. He got mod confirmation that I am town in our QT.

[Swowl]

I had to have this pointed out to me as well:

Shraeye - how do you know faust is a green text dude?

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

I did force him to claim this, but that doesn't mean it wasn't true. He got mod confirmation that I am town in our QT.

hold on - like mod mod confirmation. Verbiage being what? Just that you are town? you are IC? I know you can't quote it and I guess the question is more for shraeye, but that little tid bit of info def changes a lot of povs I imagine.

[faust]

Seriously, how do people who believe that was made up think the conversation went?

"Yo shraeye, you say that I am town or I get you lynched!"
"Um... fine."
And then I proceed to push his lynch anyway, making the threat pointless and giving him every opportunity to walk back his statement?

No, that makes no sense. First of all shraeye in that situation would just try to get me lynched instead, and second it makes no sense as a plan from me.

[faust]

I had to have this pointed out to me as well:

Shraeye - how do you know faust is a green text dude?

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

I did force him to claim this, but that doesn't mean it wasn't true. He got mod confirmation that I am town in our QT.

hold on - like mod mod confirmation. Verbiage being what? Just that you are town? you are IC? I know you can't quote it and I guess the question is more for shraeye, but that little tid bit of info def changes a lot of povs I imagine.

He saw my name written in green, bold letters by ashersky. I doubt he is willing to corroborate that at this point.

[faust]

I should say for sake of completion that during the Night phase I also tried to make shraeye believe that I had vig powers, and hat I would kill him unless he claimed, but well he didn't show up and so my bluff was called.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, I am happy with my shraeye vote.

[skip wooznum]

Seriously, how do people who believe that was made up think the conversation went?

"Yo shraeye, you say that I am town or I get you lynched!"
"Um... fine."
And then I proceed to push his lynch anyway, making the threat pointless and giving him every opportunity to walk back his statement?

No, that makes no sense. First of all shraeye in that situation would just try to get me lynched instead, and second it makes no sense as a plan from me.

Honestly I don't see how it makes much more sense according to your version of events. Why would shraeye go along with you and not try to get you lynched? What am I missing?

[mail-mi]

I had to have this pointed out to me as well:

Shraeye - how do you know faust is a green text dude?

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

I did force him to claim this, but that doesn't mean it wasn't true. He got mod confirmation that I am town in our QT.

hold on - like mod mod confirmation. Verbiage being what? Just that you are town? you are IC? I know you can't quote it and I guess the question is more for shraeye, but that little tid bit of info def changes a lot of povs I imagine.

He saw my name written in green, bold letters by ashersky. I doubt he is willing to corroborate that at this point.

hrmph. I so want to believe you're scum, but this is a hard thing to lie about. unvote

Willing to lynch shraeye today.

[EFHW]

Seriously, how do people who believe that was made up think the conversation went?

"Yo shraeye, you say that I am town or I get you lynched!"
"Um... fine."
And then I proceed to push his lynch anyway, making the threat pointless and giving him every opportunity to walk back his statement?

No, that makes no sense. First of all shraeye in that situation would just try to get me lynched instead, and second it makes no sense as a plan from me.

Honestly I don't see how it makes much more sense according to your version of events. Why would shraeye go along with you and not try to get you lynched? What am I missing?

Maybe it went down a little bit differently. More like "you know for sure I'm town now and if you don't confirm it in thread I will assume you are scum and vig/lynch you."

But then why isn't faust saying that?

[skip wooznum]

Seriously, how do people who believe that was made up think the conversation went?

"Yo shraeye, you say that I am town or I get you lynched!"
"Um... fine."
And then I proceed to push his lynch anyway, making the threat pointless and giving him every opportunity to walk back his statement?

No, that makes no sense. First of all shraeye in that situation would just try to get me lynched instead, and second it makes no sense as a plan from me.

Honestly I don't see how it makes much more sense according to your version of events. Why would shraeye go along with you and not try to get you lynched? What am I missing?

Maybe it went down a little bit differently. More like "you know for sure I'm town now and if you don't confirm it in thread I will assume you are scum and vig/lynch you."

But then why isn't faust saying that?

Why would shraeye knowing faust is town make him more likely to be coerced into saying so?

[EFHW]

I don't know.  My next question to faust is how did Shraeye lie? I mean, he did confirm faust's green text but faust is still trying to get him lynched.

[Swowl]

So...

1) Both are skum - nope. makes no sense, they would be at each other going hard. also it is a reach to begin with.

2) Both are town - Could be. Shraeye ain't pushing back on faust. but they did claim survivor, which makes no sense as town, so probably not this.

3) Faust is town Shraeye is Survivor - checks out.

4) Faust is skum Shraeye is Survivor - checks out

5) Faust is town Shraeye is skum - ok yeah could check out

I would really like to know more about what it is that faust knows that makes him think Shraeye is skum. I don't think there is a good world in which faust becomes the lynch today.

[Swowl]

eddie - you still on that EFHW kick?

[Uncleeurope]

eddie - you still on that EFHW kick?

It’s a happenin’ place to be.

[Swowl]

Vote: EFHW

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: EFHW

Your preference is to ignore the Faust/Shraeye conflict?

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.2

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7


Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip, mail-mi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[EFHW]

Vote: EFHW

What changed?

[shraeye]

Sure; thanks, faust.  I'm glad you're so sure I'm scum that you put that out there.  Especially thanks for...hiding the part that makes you certain that I'm lying, (which you know, might actually help you convince people that I'm lying) but not hiding any of the parts where I'm dead if my enemy still lives.
(the part he left out is faust's "result" by the way. he is so convinced I am lying scum that he threatened to claim a guilty result on me, though he has no such result.  And honestly, I don't even know what part he left out.  That looks like the same thing I claimed to him)


I said faust was town because when I pointed out he would be insta-lynched when I flipped not-scum based on his exaggeration (the first thing I said in the QT, after his "claim"), he suggested he would walk back his claim if I confirmed he was town.  I did, he did not.  It's a point of contention.  I did see that ash named him using green text, but honestly given his play and how false things I "knew" to be true turned out to be, I couldn't say 100% that he's town now.


I do not know who my hunter is; I am not told if they have died. Based on what I read initially, I assumed this would be another alien.  So I didn't really mind Galz searching for aliens when I knew he couldn't find me.  My "last resort" action isn't something I will use unless, you know, it's a last resort.  My PM suggests this could "change" things, in a tone I found sinister.  I'm hoping now that it actually was Galz or cayvie or that they don't exist.  The more I read my QT, the less certain I am that there actually is such a person.  Ash's words are...not standard. And his answers have been...not direct.

I have not stopped a night-phase because that power seems VERY powerful for me later on and VERY weak for me now.  Keep in mind that I die if I'm overtargeted.  You know what's likely to happen if we get down to <6 people in RMM??  In my position, not one of you would have used this power already; blatant misuse.  e points out that this would have been the towny thing to do? Sure, you can say that (I'd disagree); but it was not pro-me to waste it early.

I assume kills fail as well; I assumed that NOTHING could happen to me at night (except waking up to realize I was dead from being targeted), which is why I've piped up twice to mention my boring nights.  faust kindly quoted one. Here's the other.  It was a shock and a half to see I was in a QT somehow.

"Yo shraeye, you say that I am town or I get you lynched!"
"Um... fine."
And then I proceed to push his lynch anyway, making the threat pointless and giving him every opportunity to walk back his statement?

I can see that faust is trying out sarcasm to make the point that this isn't how the conversation went....but it's literally how the conversation went.

EFHW is most right, AND asking the pertinent questions. 

Maybe it went down a little bit differently. More like "you know for sure I'm town now and if you don't confirm it in thread I will assume you are scum and vig/lynch you."

But then why isn't faust saying that?

Honestly DatSwan has the right of it, this is not an interesting or helpful fight.  faust is probably town; he caught a survivor and got super aggro with his assumptions.  They're wrong, but he won't back down.  So, do I want to lynch faust?  of course, but you all don't so it's not happening.  Do I want to get lynched?  No.  Is it pro-town for y'all to do either thing? Not really.

So just, move on.


I'm going to do some work tomorrow looking into productive things instead of all this faust-swagger.  Like trying to find actual scum so you can lynch them and not me.

[mail-mi]

I don't know what to do anymore. Shraeye seems notscum, faust is probably greentext. I'll look into EFHW again, so far my reads have been awful so maybe I should just sheep someone else.

[mail-mi]

Or Eddie. Has he done anything this game except push for EFHW without a case?

[Swowl]

Vote: EFHW

Your preference is to ignore the Faust/Shraeye conflict?

I mean not to be whatever. But is your's not?

I don't like the concept of "ignore" here specifically... I am aware of it, it matters, it is going to continue to matter.

Faust found out Galz was Survivor - pushed for galz x a million bc "he thought Galz was skum or survivor".
Now Shraeye is claimed Survivor - pushing for Shraeye x a million bc "he thinks Galz is skum".

That strikes me as weird for faust - not the outcome of galz just the concept. Like there is gonna be a survivor faction in this game most likely yeah? So if Galz/Cavie were NOT survivor faction, would that not make it like inherently more likely that Shraeye could be? Its all a big mind fuck - I can hear the WIFOM screaming back as I typed that last part out, but just try to take the general point.

Plainly put - I  believe that faust is town at this point and that Shraeye is Survivor as claimed. So, I would prefer to lynch elsewhere.

[skip wooznum]

It's hard to comment on faust's reasons for thinking shraeye is scum, because those reasons have not been made public. They might be good reasons.

I'd be more comfortable if he shared them.

[Swowl]

sound logic there. hard to argue with that from a town pov.

thoughts faust?

[skip wooznum]

Oh.

Has anybody targeted shraeye ever? That could be a fun way to catch him in a lie.

I've never targeted him.

[faust]

Seriously, how do people who believe that was made up think the conversation went?

"Yo shraeye, you say that I am town or I get you lynched!"
"Um... fine."
And then I proceed to push his lynch anyway, making the threat pointless and giving him every opportunity to walk back his statement?

No, that makes no sense. First of all shraeye in that situation would just try to get me lynched instead, and second it makes no sense as a plan from me.

Honestly I don't see how it makes much more sense according to your version of events. Why would shraeye go along with you and not try to get you lynched? What am I missing?

Not actually sure except people are probably more ready to tell the truth than to lie.

[faust]

I misplayed the thing though probably. I should have let shraeye claim that I was town before starting with accusations against him.

[faust]

It's hard to comment on faust's reasons for thinking shraeye is scum, because those reasons have not been made public. They might be good reasons.

I'd be more comfortable if he shared them.

Can do. I mean I already shared the part where he seemed to have checked for QTs and still didn't seem to have found mine. The second part is this:

The power that I used to get shraeye into the Neighborhood is one I used N1. (I did not actually target shraeye) Part of that power, in addition to being invited to the Neighborhood N2, was that all actions shraeye took N1 were block, and that he would be informed that he was unable to use night actions. However, he claimed that nothing like that happened to him over the course of the game.

[faust]

Faust found out Galz was Survivor - pushed for galz x a million bc "he thought Galz was skum or survivor".
Now Shraeye is claimed Survivor - pushing for Shraeye x a million bc "he thinks Galz is skum".

That strikes me as weird for faust - not the outcome of galz just the concept. Like there is gonna be a survivor faction in this game most likely yeah? So if Galz/Cavie were NOT survivor faction, would that not make it like inherently more likely that Shraeye could be? Its all a big mind fuck - I can hear the WIFOM screaming back as I typed that last part out, but just try to take the general point.

Plainly put - I  believe that faust is town at this point and that Shraeye is Survivor as claimed. So, I would prefer to lynch elsewhere.

I don't see any reason to assume that there is a Survivor in this game. But each time I have not voted for them because they claimed Survivor, but rather because their claims were inconsistent.

[faust]

Seriously, how do people who believe that was made up think the conversation went?

"Yo shraeye, you say that I am town or I get you lynched!"
"Um... fine."
And then I proceed to push his lynch anyway, making the threat pointless and giving him every opportunity to walk back his statement?

No, that makes no sense. First of all shraeye in that situation would just try to get me lynched instead, and second it makes no sense as a plan from me.

Honestly I don't see how it makes much more sense according to your version of events. Why would shraeye go along with you and not try to get you lynched? What am I missing?

Maybe it went down a little bit differently. More like "you know for sure I'm town now and if you don't confirm it in thread I will assume you are scum and vig/lynch you."

But then why isn't faust saying that?

Obviously I cannot do quotes, but I don't see how this is different from what I said happened.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: EFHW

Your preference is to ignore the Faust/Shraeye conflict?

I mean not to be whatever. But is your's not?

Yeah, I’m partial to ignoring it as well, but I wanted your thought process.

[Uncleeurope]

Or Eddie. Has he done anything this game except push for EFHW without a case?

I have a case: She is likely scum.

Known it since day 1, and will continue to know it in the future.

Just waiting for you guys to catch up.

[faust]

Here's a thing to ponder: If shraeye is telling the truth, then he can, instead of skipping the next Night, skip the next Day and proceed to win with a 3-player red scumteam.

[skip wooznum]

Waitaminute! What happens if an action is redirected/deflected onto shraeye? @faust, is that what you're saying happened with your action? I feel like according to his claim, it shouldn't affect him?

[faust]

Waitaminute! What happens if an action is redirected/deflected onto shraeye? @faust, is that what you're saying happened with your action? I feel like according to his claim, it shouldn't affect him?

I don't know what happened, only that I targeted Didds and that action ended up affecting shraeye. Of course, he could be lying about everything, and the whole "actions don't affect me" thing is just a way to get town PRs off his back.

[EFHW]

My thought was that 2 actions targeting him is a really low threshold for dying.

[EFHW]

Also the enemy thing seems odd. Maybe it's the effect of paraphrasing,  but it's vague and it doesn't seem like there is much point in him knowing about it except for the selective vig. How could he possibly know who to shoot?

[mail-mi]

Or Eddie. Has he done anything this game except push for EFHW without a case?

I have a case: She is likely scum.

Known it since day 1, and will continue to know it in the future.

Just waiting for you guys to catch up.

Great. Do you have any other valuable contribution for this game?

[faust]

Laaame.

[faust]

Scum team is shraeye/EFHW/mail-mi by the way. You're welcome.

[mail-mi]

So I'm rereading eddie right now. Here's what I got.

Votes for me early day 1, but then jumps immediately off of me onto EFHW. From there, I don't think he's voted for anyone else this game (I haven't finished rereading to confirm that yet tho).

He got the message from Cayvie I think, he talks about that a little bit on D2

Oh, I was wrong, he does hop on Didds for a bit. Right after that Galz claims, and there's some interactions with that.

Well that is a laughably bad take.

Haha.

See, I’m laughing.

Here’s the deal, I joke more as town than as Scum.

It’s a tell I am not proud of, and am working on (working on it this game, perhaps? Haha) but it is a tell nonetheless.

Although that means less coming from me.

This is post #978. This rubs me the wrong way, especiallly the parenthetical. On the reread, he hasn't been joking very much, so by his own tell it's scummy. And the parenthetical seems like a forced joke from nervousness of being scumread. So those are some big scumpoints for me right there.

Hm... Eddie is pushing EFHW while simultaneously keeping his vote on Didds. He's been kind-of-pushing-EFHW-but-not-really the whole first 2 days. If either one flips scum, the other would be my prime partner suspect.

And thus concludes my reread of Eddie. Leaning slightly scum, but not the strongest feeling or case by any means. ehhh

[mail-mi]

i guess it's better than faust or shraeye. vote: eddie

gonna reread EFHW next

[mail-mi]

Rereading EFHW

EFHW has a lot of posts with minimal content. Not quite actilurking, but not quite active participation either.

Votes eddie for his misleading post on her. Early fight and vote is almost textbook partner stuff. Maybe it's too obvious, but I can really see an eddie/efhw partnership here.

She puts pubby to L-2 about 12 hours before day end on D1, no other explanation, and right after a post voting for Didds. Could be consolidating votes, but could also be placement on an opportune mislynch. Slight scum.

EFHW was pretty hard on Galz during D2. Probably NIA, though it is a nice place for redscum to be to be distracting people from looking for them.

And thus ends this reread. I'm not super scummy on her either, though I feel like EFHW/Eddie interactions are more likely to be scum-scum than anything else. I'm feeling more scummy on eddie so I'll keep my vote there for now, but more than happy to switch to EFHW once consolidation time comes.

[Swowl]

Here's a thing to ponder: If shraeye is telling the truth, then he can, instead of skipping the next Night, skip the next Day and proceed to win with a 3-player red scumteam.

fair. which would probably be anther huge argument in A) skum not having that power, B) they probably survivor, and C) why would they tell us if they were skum and could do that?

[Uncleeurope]

So I'm rereading eddie right now. Here's what I got.

Votes for me early day 1, but then jumps immediately off of me onto EFHW. From there, I don't think he's voted for anyone else this game (I haven't finished rereading to confirm that yet tho).

He got the message from Cayvie I think, he talks about that a little bit on D2

Oh, I was wrong, he does hop on Didds for a bit. Right after that Galz claims, and there's some interactions with that.

Well that is a laughably bad take.

Haha.

See, I’m laughing.

Here’s the deal, I joke more as town than as Scum.

It’s a tell I am not proud of, and am working on (working on it this game, perhaps? Haha) but it is a tell nonetheless.

Although that means less coming from me.

This is post #978. This rubs me the wrong way, especiallly the parenthetical. On the reread, he hasn't been joking very much, so by his own tell it's scummy. And the parenthetical seems like a forced joke from nervousness of being scumread. So those are some big scumpoints for me right there.

Hm... Eddie is pushing EFHW while simultaneously keeping his vote on Didds. He's been kind-of-pushing-EFHW-but-not-really the whole first 2 days. If either one flips scum, the other would be my prime partner suspect.

And thus concludes my reread of Eddie. Leaning slightly scum, but not the strongest feeling or case by any means. ehhh

Did I really vote for you day 1?

Are you bad?

Most of my day 1 reads are accurate in general, that’s my strongest time in the game. That’s my primary reason for continually pushing EFHW. It was my strongest scum read. (I had many strong town reads, like MiX and Pubby, for examples of dead town reads. I will keep the living day 1 town reads to myself.)

It slipped my mind this time around that I had voted for you. That is definitely helpful information.

Back to you, though, do you have any strong reads? Most of your reads are coupled with a disclaimer at the end which waters them down a touch more than the post would suggest.

If I am your strongest scum read, and you don’t like it, then who is scum?

[mail-mi]

So I'm rereading eddie right now. Here's what I got.

Votes for me early day 1, but then jumps immediately off of me onto EFHW. From there, I don't think he's voted for anyone else this game (I haven't finished rereading to confirm that yet tho).

He got the message from Cayvie I think, he talks about that a little bit on D2

Oh, I was wrong, he does hop on Didds for a bit. Right after that Galz claims, and there's some interactions with that.

Well that is a laughably bad take.

Haha.

See, I’m laughing.

Here’s the deal, I joke more as town than as Scum.

It’s a tell I am not proud of, and am working on (working on it this game, perhaps? Haha) but it is a tell nonetheless.

Although that means less coming from me.

This is post #978. This rubs me the wrong way, especiallly the parenthetical. On the reread, he hasn't been joking very much, so by his own tell it's scummy. And the parenthetical seems like a forced joke from nervousness of being scumread. So those are some big scumpoints for me right there.

Hm... Eddie is pushing EFHW while simultaneously keeping his vote on Didds. He's been kind-of-pushing-EFHW-but-not-really the whole first 2 days. If either one flips scum, the other would be my prime partner suspect.

And thus concludes my reread of Eddie. Leaning slightly scum, but not the strongest feeling or case by any means. ehhh

Did I really vote for you day 1?

Are you bad?

Most of my day 1 reads are accurate in general, that’s my strongest time in the game. That’s my primary reason for continually pushing EFHW. It was my strongest scum read. (I had many strong town reads, like MiX and Pubby, for examples of dead town reads. I will keep the living day 1 town reads to myself.)

It slipped my mind this time around that I had voted for you. That is definitely helpful information.

Back to you, though, do you have any strong reads? Most of your reads are coupled with a disclaimer at the end which waters them down a touch more than the post would suggest.

If I am your strongest scum read, and you don’t like it, then who is scum?

Well, the strongest scumreads I've had this game is MiX and Faust, who have both turned out to be town, so I'm hesitant to say any reads that I have that are super strong. My strongest are probably you and EFHW at this point, which is why I did the rereads, which confirmed my reads.

[faust]

Here's a thing to ponder: If shraeye is telling the truth, then he can, instead of skipping the next Night, skip the next Day and proceed to win with a 3-player red scumteam.

fair. which would probably be anther huge argument in A) skum not having that power, B) they probably survivor, and C) why would they tell us if they were skum and could do that?

Yeah, well... maybe it's a lie.

[Swowl]

Here's a thing to ponder: If shraeye is telling the truth, then he can, instead of skipping the next Night, skip the next Day and proceed to win with a 3-player red scumteam.

fair. which would probably be anther huge argument in A) skum not having that power, B) they probably survivor, and C) why would they tell us if they were skum and could do that?

Yeah, well... maybe it's a lie.

Well if you think that then... the concern shouldn’t exist?

[EFHW]

[quote from Eddie]Back to you, though, do you have any strong reads? Most of your reads are coupled with a disclaimer at the end which waters them down a touch more than the post would suggest[/quote]

I really agree with this. mail-mi has been hedging all game. And the Eddie/me partner theory has no substance to it.

I think Eddie is probably town,  unfortunately.

[EFHW]

But we still have some unanswered questions for Shraeye/faust. People trying to move us away from it look bad, imo.

[Swowl]

those are seperate statements.

For example -
you have questions that should be answered by faust and Shraeye. I agree with you.
I also think that we are wasting time looking into a duo that is likely to not contain a source of skum.
If you think what I think, then help. If you don't think what I think - don't allow time to be wasted, make a case.

You stating other people are skummy for attempting to move conversation is a little out there. We can all walk and chew gum at the same time I think.

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.3

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
uncle (1): mail-mi


Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[EFHW]

those are seperate statements.

For example -
you have questions that should be answered by faust and Shraeye. I agree with you.
I also think that we are wasting time looking into a duo that is likely to not contain a source of skum.
If you think what I think, then help. If you don't think what I think - don't allow time to be wasted, make a case.

You stating other people are skummy for attempting to move conversation is a little out there. We can all walk and chew gum at the same time I think.

If you believe Shraeye, then sure, I guess. There are some strange things in his story, so it does seem odd to me that people want to move away already. Maybe we can do both,  but it looks like deflection to me.

[EFHW]

What do you think and how could I help?

[SpaceAnemone]

Scum team is shraeye/EFHW/mail-mi by the way. You're welcome.

To what extent do you feel it's possible for each of these three players to be Survivor/SK/Other!Baddie, rather than working in concert as a faction?

[faust]

Scum team is shraeye/EFHW/mail-mi by the way. You're welcome.

To what extent do you feel it's possible for each of these three players to be Survivor/SK/Other!Baddie, rather than working in concert as a faction?

Uh I don't really know. These reads are partially informed by EFHW/mail-mi's attitude towards shraeye though, in that sense they're more likely to be partners. I don't think there would necessarily be a Survivor in this, and we have no evidence of extra Nightkill other than the ones that cayvie claimed, so I wouldn't assume an SK here.

All of them I think also work as Galzria's partners I think, but I'd have to go back and check.

[EFHW]

Here's a new twist,  contradicting everything I've said so far (of course). What if faust is Shraeye's enemy? He suspects me for being on Shraeye's wagon even though he is there, too. Don't know how mail-mi fits in there; he isn't voting Shraeye.

[faust]

Here's a new twist,  contradicting everything I've said so far (of course). What if faust is Shraeye's enemy? He suspects me for being on Shraeye's wagon even though he is there, too. Don't know how mail-mi fits in there; he isn't voting Shraeye.

If I was his enemy, then why would he say that I'm town, and why hasn't he shot me already?

It's also the most reductive thing ever to assume that the only reason I have for suspecting people is whether they are voting for a particular person at a given moment.

[EFHW]

It was a theory, not a pronouncement. Maybe you get to have a qt with your target. That would very ash.

[EFHW]

Before you tear it apart, yes there are holes in the theory. But it's interesting to think about.

[EFHW]

The green text in particular is a problem in the narrative.  Shraeye's enemy sounds like a one person assassin faction, not town aligned. Maybe also a survivor,  but only one of them can win. "This town isn't big enough for the two of us."

So, it would be great if Shraeye could answer my questions and make himself more believable.

[EFHW]

Shraeye could be the enemy looking for his target, also unknown to him. His having a killing power doesn't make him different from his enemy. More likely that they are both nefarious than that he is defending himself.

But then are they threats to town? Maybe not.

[EFHW]

@Shraeye,  how has your situation influenced your voting?

[faust]

So, it would be great if Shraeye could answer my questions and make himself more believable.

Maybe, but I get a feeling that shraeye will be busy with other things these next couple of days.

[Swowl]

Shraeye - I am being dumb and cannot find it. What is your actual win con?

[Swowl]

It was a theory, not a pronouncement. Maybe you get to have a qt with your target. That would very ash.

wait I don't get this with your previous statement about Shraeye being the baddie. Didn't faust claim to be the one doing the targeting of the QT opened up?

[EFHW]

It was a theory, not a pronouncement. Maybe you get to have a qt with your target. That would very ash.

wait I don't get this with your previous statement about Shraeye being the baddie. Didn't faust claim to be the one doing the targeting of the QT opened up?

I'm entertaining several scenarios.  They aren't necessarily consistent.

[Swowl]

It was a theory, not a pronouncement. Maybe you get to have a qt with your target. That would very ash.

wait I don't get this with your previous statement about Shraeye being the baddie. Didn't faust claim to be the one doing the targeting of the QT opened up?

I'm entertaining several scenarios.  They aren't necessarily consistent.

fair enough. just like, when you say "get a QT with your target" what do you mean? cuz they are both alive and we had two deaths. So like if the target is a kill target, that is kind of unlikely.

[skip wooznum]

vote: shraeye

I thought shraeye would say stuff and I would read them. No real reason to wait around.

[Swowl]

that is L-1 on Shraeye by the way...

[Swowl]

I am not sure what the rules are here on what I am allowed to say in the game... but we should uhm... allow shraeye a small amount of time to check in if it is answers to questions that you want.

[skip wooznum]

Oh, I thought he wasn't going to make it back before deadline.

unvote I guess...

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.4

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
uncle (1): mail-mi


Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[mail-mi]

[quote from Eddie]Back to you, though, do you have any strong reads? Most of your reads are coupled with a disclaimer at the end which waters them down a touch more than the post would suggest

I really agree with this. mail-mi has been hedging all game. And the Eddie/me partner theory has no substance to it.

I think Eddie is probably town,  unfortunately.
[/quote]

That is blatantly false, I was confident on both my Faust and MiX reads. What you may see as hedging is me not quite trusting my own reads because so far they've been bad.

[EFHW]

It was a theory, not a pronouncement. Maybe you get to have a qt with your target. That would very ash.

wait I don't get this with your previous statement about Shraeye being the baddie. Didn't faust claim to be the one doing the targeting of the QT opened up?

I'm entertaining several scenarios.  They aren't necessarily consistent.

fair enough. just like, when you say "get a QT with your target" what do you mean? cuz they are both alive and we had two deaths. So like if the target is a kill target, that is kind of unlikely.

I don't know. It sounds like a pretty intense relationship. Maybe they can talk it out?

[EFHW]

[quote from Eddie]Back to you, though, do you have any strong reads? Most of your reads are coupled with a disclaimer at the end which waters them down a touch more than the post would suggest

I really agree with this. mail-mi has been hedging all game. And the Eddie/me partner theory has no substance to it.

I think Eddie is probably town,  unfortunately.

That is blatantly false, I was confident on both my Faust and MiX reads. What you may see as hedging is me not quite trusting my own reads because so far they've been bad.
[/quote]
I didn't say you hedged everything, just that it occurred multiple times. I'll dig up quotes tomorrow.

[EFHW]

I am not sure what the rules are here on what I am allowed to say in the game... but we should uhm... allow shraeye a small amount of time to check in if it is answers to questions that you want.

rules??

[shraeye]

So, it would be great if Shraeye could answer my questions and make himself more believable.

I was under the impression that I went through all most recent posts and answered everything in my big ol post earlier.  Please quote/repeat your question and ill get to it.

Settle your pants down, skip. You were honestly worried o wouldn't make it back before a deadline that is 6 days from now??

But also, we just had second kid today, so give me amoment, yeah?

[shraeye]

@Shraeye,  how has your situation influenced your voting?

Please clarify, thanks

[shraeye]

vote: shraeye

I thought shraeye would say stuff and I would read them. No real reason to wait around.

What stuff are you waiting for?

[skip wooznum]

So, it would be great if Shraeye could answer my questions and make himself more believable.

I was under the impression that I went through all most recent posts and answered everything in my big ol post earlier.  Please quote/repeat your question and ill get to it.

Settle your pants down, skip. You were honestly worried o wouldn't make it back before a deadline that is 6 days from now??

But also, we just had second kid today, so give me amoment, yeah?

Yeah, sorry. I just thought you would be pretty busy for the next little while, and I assumed it would be longer than 6 days. Congratulations, by the way!

I'll quote the stuff I want answers to.

[skip wooznum]

Mainly this

It's hard to comment on faust's reasons for thinking shraeye is scum, because those reasons have not been made public. They might be good reasons.

I'd be more comfortable if he shared them.

Can do. I mean I already shared the part where he seemed to have checked for QTs and still didn't seem to have found mine. The second part is this:

The power that I used to get shraeye into the Neighborhood is one I used N1. (I did not actually target shraeye) Part of that power, in addition to being invited to the Neighborhood N2, was that all actions shraeye took N1 were block, and that he would be informed that he was unable to use night actions. However, he claimed that nothing like that happened to him over the course of the game.

Also, I'd like to know what would happen if an action ends up hitting you but you were not the intended target, say through redirection or deflection.

[shraeye]

I'm too addicted to talking to yall to wait that long

[Swowl]

I'm too addicted to talking to yall to wait that long

hayyyyy congratz!!!

[skip wooznum]

Also, I'd like to know what would happen if an action ends up hitting you but you were not the intended target, say through redirection or deflection.

And may as well throw in the converse (or is it inverse?) of this:
If someone targets you but the action ends up deflecting to somebody else, what would happen?

[Swowl]

helping:

I'd like to know what would happen if an action ends up hitting you but you were not the intended target, say through redirection or deflection.

(forum rules skip. Bold it if you want a mod answer)

[skip wooznum]

Oh I doubt ash will answer that. The question was posed to shraeye (if he's telling the truth about his role, ash might answer him in his qt.

[Swowl]

Oh I doubt ash will answer that. The question was posed to shraeye (if he's telling the truth about his role, ash might answer him in his qt.

fair lol that makes more sense. Did it in case you didn't know but as I pasted it I was thinking... yeah no way there is an answer coming there.

[skip wooznum]

Maybe the context of my question was unclear. I don't mean to ask a general question about redirection. I mean to ask shraeye specifically how redirection would interact with his claimed role.

[Swowl]

I am not sure what the rules are here on what I am allowed to say in the game... but we should uhm... allow shraeye a small amount of time to check in if it is answers to questions that you want.

rules??

IRL into game stuff.

[Swowl]

Maybe the context of my question was unclear. I don't mean to ask a general question about redirection. I mean to ask shraeye specifically how redirection would interact with his claimed role.

yep yep got it. Also would like to know that answer.

[faust]

Here's what we have.

Either shraeye is my partner, then he is scum and you should lynch him.

Or shraeye is not my partner, then I am town and you should trust me when I say that we should lynch shraeye.

[SpaceAnemone]

I am not sure what the rules are here on what I am allowed to say in the game... but we should uhm... allow shraeye a small amount of time to check in if it is answers to questions that you want.

rules??

IRL into game stuff.

Haha, yeah, I worried about that too since I first found out through Raerae on FB.

Congratulations, Shraeye & Raerae!! Looks like you guys are definitely going to have your hands full now :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

Here's what we have.

Either shraeye is my partner, then he is scum and you should lynch him.

Or shraeye is not my partner, then I am town and you should trust me when I say that we should lynch shraeye.

Or you're both from different non-town factions, in which case it's possible Shraeye is not the optimal lynch for town. I think there's a low chance that's true, but you don't help your case when you oversimplify things too much, because it just feels like you've got something you're trying to obfuscate.

For my part, I found it weird that you reported Shraeye's inability to be targeted to the thread without immediately pointing out that you'd successfully targeted him N1 (even though you'd aimed at WCD), and that's the only reason you had a QT with him.

[faust]

Here's what we have.

Either shraeye is my partner, then he is scum and you should lynch him.

Or shraeye is not my partner, then I am town and you should trust me when I say that we should lynch shraeye.

Or you're both from different non-town factions, in which case it's possible Shraeye is not the optimal lynch for town. I think there's a low chance that's true, but you don't help your case when you oversimplify things too much, because it just feels like you've got something you're trying to obfuscate.

For my part, I found it weird that you reported Shraeye's inability to be targeted to the thread without immediately pointing out that you'd successfully targeted him N1 (even though you'd aimed at WCD), and that's the only reason you had a QT with him.

If shraeye and I were on opposing non-town factions, then he'd hav eno reason to say that I'm town.

People asked for shraeye's claim, so I gave it. I was still debating how much to share of my role, so I did not claim. But of course you already knew that that was what happened because I had claimed in the petition QT, so it's not like I made it up or anything.

[ashersky]

I'd like to know what would happen if an action ends up hitting you but you were not the intended target, say through redirection or deflection.

If an action hit me, the mod, the game would be BM.  Also, it would fail, because I am all-powerful.

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.5

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
uncle (1): mail-mi


Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[Uncleeurope]

I'd like to know what would happen if an action ends up hitting you but you were not the intended target, say through redirection or deflection.

If an action hit me, the mod, the game would be BM.  Also, it would fail, because I am all-powerful.

Dayvig: Ashersky

TAKE THAT!

YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME!

[Swowl]

Shraeye - did you believe Galz was survivor when they claimed?

[Swowl]

I'd like to know what would happen if an action ends up hitting you but you were not the intended target, say through redirection or deflection.

If an action hit me, the mod, the game would be BM.  Also, it would fail, because I am all-powerful.

Dayvig: Ashersky

TAKE THAT!

YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME!

fantastic lol

[Swowl]

faust - you say that you targeted WCD with your ability right? but got Shraeye instaed. Why WCD?

[faust]

faust - you say that you targeted WCD with your ability right? but got Shraeye instaed. Why WCD?

I thought that when I put her on the spot to make a claim, it would be easy to see whether it was genuine; she's not that experienced with fakeclaims. Also she is among the people I'd most enjoy having a QT with.

[Swowl]

faust - you say that you targeted WCD with your ability right? but got Shraeye instaed. Why WCD?

I thought that when I put her on the spot to make a claim, it would be easy to see whether it was genuine; she's not that experienced with fakeclaims. Also she is among the people I'd most enjoy having a QT with.

well I def can't argue with the last part. she is fun.

The only thing you attempted to do was open a QT with her?

[faust]

faust - you say that you targeted WCD with your ability right? but got Shraeye instaed. Why WCD?

I thought that when I put her on the spot to make a claim, it would be easy to see whether it was genuine; she's not that experienced with fakeclaims. Also she is among the people I'd most enjoy having a QT with.

well I def can't argue with the last part. she is fun.

The only thing you attempted to do was open a QT with her?

No.

[Uncleeurope]

Random theorizing idea: what is one of the RED faction had a 1-shot super redirect thingy that bounces any targets to RED for a round, which might explain why Faust bounced off WCD and Cayvie bounced off Mail-Mi?

What was the list of weird targets from that day anyway?

There has to be a combination of what happened and the lies that makes sense here.

It is possible Cayvie targeted me with the message and lied about it being sent to Mail-Mi, though.

[skip wooznum]

I targeted cayvie N1.

[EFHW]

Random theorizing idea: what is one of the RED faction had a 1-shot super redirect thingy that bounces any targets to RED for a round, which might explain why Faust bounced off WCD and Cayvie bounced off Mail-Mi?

What was the list of weird targets from that day anyway?

There has to be a combination of what happened and the lies that makes sense here.

It is possible Cayvie targeted me with the message and lied about it being sent to Mail-Mi, though.

That doesn't work because mail-mi had one action targeting him redirected and was the redirect for another action targeting someone else.

[EFHW]

Congratulations Shraeye and raerae!

[EFHW]

Ii guess didn'tso much ask questions as I raised problems with the claim and hoped for clarification. This was one:

My thought was that 2 actions targeting him is a really low threshold for dying.

[EFHW]

This is another:

Also the enemy thing seems odd. Maybe it's the effect of paraphrasing,  but it's vague and it doesn't seem like there is much point in him knowing about it except for the selective vig. How could he possibly know who to shoot?

[EFHW]

This was actually a question.

@Shraeye,  how has your situation influenced your voting?

What I mean is have you been looking for scum? Why? What priorities motivate your votes?

[Swowl]

faust - you say that you targeted WCD with your ability right? but got Shraeye instaed. Why WCD?

I thought that when I put her on the spot to make a claim, it would be easy to see whether it was genuine; she's not that experienced with fakeclaims. Also she is among the people I'd most enjoy having a QT with.

well I def can't argue with the last part. she is fun.

The only thing you attempted to do was open a QT with her?

No.

did what you do not wish to state, but intended for WCD, also instead go to Shraeye?

[Swowl]

Random theorizing idea: what is one of the RED faction had a 1-shot super redirect thingy that bounces any targets to RED for a round, which might explain why Faust bounced off WCD and Cayvie bounced off Mail-Mi?

What was the list of weird targets from that day anyway?

There has to be a combination of what happened and the lies that makes sense here.

It is possible Cayvie targeted me with the message and lied about it being sent to Mail-Mi, though.

interesting. I shall make a list. uno momento.

[Swowl]

K. There were kills and messages. Here it is.,.. I think I got it all.

KILLS:
- LL is dead, but not shot.
- MiX is dead, shot and killed.
- Cayvie claim = Shot at EFHW.
*At the time assumption was that it hit one of LL or MiX. Now we know more, I think it is more likely it was either just a lie to set up Efoo or something stopped it from happening.


MESSAGES:
- Cayvie sent a message to MailMi, which instead went to Eddie.
- Skip targets Cayvie with Education, but ends up going to MailMi


Summary (based on claims ofc):
Skip targets cayvie           instead to         mail-mi.
cayvie targets mail-mi      instead to          Eddie.
cayvie targets efhw          instead to          MiX (or LaLight).

[Swowl]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

[mail-mi]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

Don't forget we also have Faust claiming to have targeted WCD but getting shraeye instead.

[Swowl]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

Don't forget we also have Faust claiming to have targeted WCD but getting shraeye instead.

two seperate nights, but yes def an important addition.

[mail-mi]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

Don't forget we also have Faust claiming to have targeted WCD but getting shraeye instead.

two seperate nights, but yes def an important addition.

I thought he said he got shraeye N1? I suppose if this was N2 then it makes it more likely scum just has a plain redirector.

[mail-mi]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

What if cayvie made up that plan to go after EFHW because she's an alien? At least I think it's pretty unlikely that EFHW is yellow scum from this.

[Swowl]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

What if cayvie made up that plan to go after EFHW because she's an alien? At least I think it's pretty unlikely that EFHW is yellow scum from this.

this is my thought exactly. Only slightly contradicting thing would be that obviously Galz was gung ho on WCD... and that was after 1 night of "results" they could have. So how likely would it be that those 2 could have two Alien results? But yeah, idea is solid at least.

Also, to reiterate - I personally do now believe we are looking for 1 other orange skum here. I think there is a different faction and orange is done. Obviously, willing to sway on that, but just saying.

[Swowl]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

Don't forget we also have Faust claiming to have targeted WCD but getting shraeye instead.

two seperate nights, but yes def an important addition.

I thought he said he got shraeye N1? I suppose if this was N2 then it makes it more likely scum just has a plain redirector.

oh you totally right! it was delayed I forgot

So def add that into the list!

[Swowl]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

Don't forget we also have Faust claiming to have targeted WCD but getting shraeye instead.

two seperate nights, but yes def an important addition.

I thought he said he got shraeye N1? I suppose if this was N2 then it makes it more likely scum just has a plain redirector.

oh you totally right! it was delayed I forgot

So def add that into the list!

wait hold on I am getting something wrong here one sec

[faust]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

Don't forget we also have Faust claiming to have targeted WCD but getting shraeye instead.

two seperate nights, but yes def an important addition.

I thought he said he got shraeye N1? I suppose if this was N2 then it makes it more likely scum just has a plain redirector.

Yeah no, my targeting happened N1.

[Swowl]

What is interesting is that this did not get brought up until right now when Eddie brought it up. There are a lot of things in here (assumptions) that made sense at the time that may not make sense now.

Like for example - the number one inconsistency thing that happened was Cayvie making all the claims that had different randomized results. That was crazy at the time. Now we know that Cayvie was at least third party faction, if not skum, the fact that she could of been lying could potentially explain a lot of it away right there.

Don't forget we also have Faust claiming to have targeted WCD but getting shraeye instead.

two seperate nights, but yes def an important addition.

I thought he said he got shraeye N1? I suppose if this was N2 then it makes it more likely scum just has a plain redirector.

oh you totally right! it was delayed I forgot

So def add that into the list!

wait hold on I am getting something wrong here one sec

ok yeah if I understand correctly... faust claimed to target WCD night 1, which opened a thread with Shraeye on Night 2 (delayed). So the switching would of happened in the chaos of night 1 shit yeah. But WCD was not part of the mix Night 1 right?

[Swowl]

Assuming that is right...

Night 1:

Cayvie targets EFHW ----> MiX/LaLight or blocked/stopped (kill shot)
Cayvie targets MailMi ----> Eddie (message)

Skip targets Cayvie ----> MailMi (Education)

faust targets WCD ----> Shraeye (Something + QT)

[faust]

Is there a point to any of this?

[Swowl]

Hold on still missing something. Before anything claimed, like right a the beginning of the day... Cayvie claimed to of gotten an interesting message.

Did anyone claim doing that? I cannot find it.

[Swowl]

Is there a point to any of this?

possibly. only one way to find out.

[Swowl]

for example - I had completely forgotten about the cayvie claiming message gotten thing. important now? no. Potentially important? hell yah.

[Swowl]

For reference, this was the Order of Events:

1. Cayvie claims to of gotten an interesting message.
2. Cayvie claims to of shot at EFHW.
3. Eddie claims to of gotten a message asking for confirmation by using last word etc.
4. Skip confirms message sent to Cayvie. Even though it ended up on Eddie, this checks out, as Skip claimed to target MailMi, so they would of assumed it was their message.
5. Eddie confirms he got the response he wanted and now knows who the sender of the message was.
6. Cayvie confirms it was Eddie who got their message, but they did not send it to Eddie, they sent it to MailMi.
7. ***** Cayvie claims that the message they got had to do with signatures! I missed this!**** This could explain the weird voting shit between galz and cayvie from day 1 to day 2. Maybe it was galz that messaged cayvie?
8. MailMi claims to of gotten the education from Skip (5 posts after the education term is brought up).

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.6

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
uncle (1): mail-mi


Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[EFHW]

4. Skip didn't target mail-mi,  But mail-mi ended up getting Skip's message. Skip tried to message cayvie.

[Swowl]

4. Skip didn't target mail-mi,  But mail-mi ended up getting Skip's message. Skip tried to message cayvie.

yes and I meant Mail Mi where I put eddie, that one was a mess.

[2.71828.....]

Still have a couple days left. I am still happy with my shraeye vote, although a few other targeted rereads of other people would probably be helpful for me to do

[EFHW]

My feeling about Shraeye at this point is that he has claimed a killing ability, his story has holes in it and, by his own admission, he doesn't have pro-town motives. So I still favor his lynch for today.

[shraeye]

I'm getting stuff handled, expect some more me tomorrow.

Nobody is at all interested in skipping the night phase??  At least it seems EFHW and skip are definitely excited to do a night phase.

[EFHW]

That would be a good way to confirm your role.

[EFHW]

Do you do it before or after the lynch?

[skip wooznum]

I'm getting stuff handled, expect some more me tomorrow.

Nobody is at all interested in skipping the night phase??  At least it seems EFHW and skip are definitely excited to do a night phase.

?

I'm definitely interested in that. I just think you're probably lying about it.

[shraeye]

I mean, I've already offered to do it.  So, it would be pretty easy to see if I'm lying.

I won't do it if I'm lynched, duh.

[shraeye]

So easy to check that the fact you didn't even bother to care is highly suspicious.

[skip wooznum]

Do you have responses to my other questions?

[Swowl]

That would be a good way to confirm your role.

how does that confirm their role? it confirms that they can do that thing. that is it.
I will give you it does seems to fit nicely into a survivor like role, so there is that... but just saying.

[Uncleeurope]

I'm getting stuff handled, expect some more me tomorrow.

Nobody is at all interested in skipping the night phase??  At least it seems EFHW and skip are definitely excited to do a night phase.

?

I'm definitely interested in that. I just think you're probably lying about it.

Well that’s unlikely. He almost certainly has the power. Whether or not he is a NK scum group is the question.

I see little reason to kill Shraeye today. *shrugs*

[Swowl]

I'm getting stuff handled, expect some more me tomorrow.

Nobody is at all interested in skipping the night phase??  At least it seems EFHW and skip are definitely excited to do a night phase.

?

I'm definitely interested in that. I just think you're probably lying about it.

Well that’s unlikely. He almost certainly has the power. Whether or not he is a NK scum group is the question.

I see little reason to kill Shraeye today. *shrugs*

you find anything you were looking for in those day 2 claims?

[Uncleeurope]

I'm getting stuff handled, expect some more me tomorrow.

Nobody is at all interested in skipping the night phase??  At least it seems EFHW and skip are definitely excited to do a night phase.

?

I'm definitely interested in that. I just think you're probably lying about it.

Well that’s unlikely. He almost certainly has the power. Whether or not he is a NK scum group is the question.

I see little reason to kill Shraeye today. *shrugs*

you find anything you were looking for in those day 2 claims?

I dunno. I can only theorize weird scenarios, the ability to use those scenarios to make a case on someone is limited.

[Swowl]

I would also like to bump a clarification question, as it seems that Cayvie was the LCD in "messed with results":

Did anyone send Cayvie a message?

[Swowl]

I mean, I've already offered to do it.  So, it would be pretty easy to see if I'm lying.

I won't do it if I'm lynched, duh.

could you do it if you were lynched?
Galz kept his bit going, or at least claimed to be the reason behind it .

[Swowl]

I'm getting stuff handled, expect some more me tomorrow.

Nobody is at all interested in skipping the night phase??  At least it seems EFHW and skip are definitely excited to do a night phase.

?

I'm definitely interested in that. I just think you're probably lying about it.

Well that’s unlikely. He almost certainly has the power. Whether or not he is a NK scum group is the question.

I see little reason to kill Shraeye today. *shrugs*

if you entertain the idea that Cayvie/Galz were in fact not skum faction - does that change your efoo read?

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.7

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
uncle (1): mail-mi


Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[EFHW]

I mean, I've already offered to do it.  So, it would be pretty easy to see if I'm lying.

I won't do it if I'm lynched, duh.

If it happens after the lynch, that could be a reason not to lynch you. I wasn't suggesting you would do it if you were lynched. So when does it take place?

[EFHW]

That would be a good way to confirm your role.

how does that confirm their role? it confirms that they can do that thing. that is it.
I will give you it does seems to fit nicely into a survivor like role, so there is that... but just saying.

It increases his credibility, in addition to being consistent with a role that could decide to make allegiance to town or bad guys.

But his having a killing power is NOT consistent with typical survivor roles. And the day/night skip is pretty swingy. I still want to hear more about this Shraeye-enemy relationship. If Shraeye can do this, what can his enemy do?

[shraeye]

Mainly this

It's hard to comment on faust's reasons for thinking shraeye is scum, because those reasons have not been made public. They might be good reasons.

I'd be more comfortable if he shared them.

Can do. I mean I already shared the part where he seemed to have checked for QTs and still didn't seem to have found mine. The second part is this:

The power that I used to get shraeye into the Neighborhood is one I used N1. (I did not actually target shraeye) Part of that power, in addition to being invited to the Neighborhood N2, was that all actions shraeye took N1 were block, and that he would be informed that he was unable to use night actions. However, he claimed that nothing like that happened to him over the course of the game.

Also, I'd like to know what would happen if an action ends up hitting you but you were not the intended target, say through redirection or deflection.

I also would love to know this, or help clarify it.  I've asked ash sooo many questions that have gotten "no comment", or "read your PM" as a response.  I feel like ash thinks I'm supposed to be able to guess some things that I just can't. 

This is another:

Also the enemy thing seems odd. Maybe it's the effect of paraphrasing,  but it's vague and it doesn't seem like there is much point in him knowing about it except for the selective vig. How could he possibly know who to shoot?

You and me are on the same page.  I feel like my PM is a riddle that ash really wanted me to solve, but I haven't.  I've hypothesized that a mirror role of mine could exist / couldn't exist / probably also has a kill / couldn't have a kill or I'm just too shitty of a role / or that I'm misreading things entirely one way or another.

My thought was that 2 actions targeting him is a really low threshold for dying.

These are exactly my thoughts as well.  I don't see how you and me thinking this is a big drawback makes me a good lynch target?

[shraeye]

Shraeye could be the enemy looking for his target, also unknown to him. His having a killing power doesn't make him different from his enemy. More likely that they are both nefarious than that he is defending himself.

But then are they threats to town? Maybe not.

I see what you're saying, but I feel like the rest of my stuff is more consistent with me being a hunted person who's main ability is hiding a bunch and trying to survive. I think my kill power is meant to be a shiny button that's there to tempt me to do the wrong thing.

Shraeye - I am being dumb and cannot find it. What is your actual win con?

I asked and can't quote my wincon directly; basically "you win if you are alive at the end of the game".  there seems to be the ability to change this.  More questions to ash, still no answers.  My best guess is it's related to my LastResort action.

This was actually a question.

@Shraeye,  how has your situation influenced your voting?

What I mean is have you been looking for scum? Why? What priorities motivate your votes?

Day 1 I was just messing around.  Day 2 I was trying to land on scum, because I wanted to challenge myself to find scum.  Given the choice, I'd prefer a town-win than a scum-win.  I still think the best thing for me is to play pro-town right now, and keep finding scum.  So I'm looking.

[shraeye]

It's hard to comment on faust's reasons for thinking shraeye is scum, because those reasons have not been made public. They might be good reasons.

I'd be more comfortable if he shared them.

Can do. I mean I already shared the part where he seemed to have checked for QTs and still didn't seem to have found mine. The second part is this:

The power that I used to get shraeye into the Neighborhood is one I used N1. (I did not actually target shraeye) Part of that power, in addition to being invited to the Neighborhood N2, was that all actions shraeye took N1 were block, and that he would be informed that he was unable to use night actions. However, he claimed that nothing like that happened to him over the course of the game.

A) I explained exactly why I kept saying nothing happened to me at night
B) I got no N1 information about being unable to use actions.

Here's a thing to ponder: If shraeye is telling the truth, then he can, instead of skipping the next Night, skip the next Day and proceed to win with a 3-player red scumteam.

fair. which would probably be anther huge argument in A) skum not having that power, B) they probably survivor, and C) why would they tell us if they were skum and could do that?

I know, this post was faust basically saying "if shraeye is telling the truth, then he's probably survivor. but he's not telling the truth so let's lynch him".  I mean, if I'm saying I'm a survivor, and my roles sounds like a survivor....I'm probably survivor.

Here's what we have.

Either shraeye is my partner, then he is scum and you should lynch him.

Or shraeye is not my partner, then I am town and you should trust me when I say that we should lynch shraeye.

Your "trust me" is that shraeye said he did not receive a thing that faust "knows" shraeye received.  Can you stop playing "what happened isn't what I thought would happen, so I know somebody is lying" for just a little while??  A) it's exhausting and B) everybody loses that game except scum.

Waitaminute! What happens if an action is redirected/deflected onto shraeye? @faust, is that what you're saying happened with your action? I feel like according to his claim, it shouldn't affect him?

I don't know what happened, only that I targeted Didds and that action ended up affecting shraeye. Of course, he could be lying about everything, and the whole "actions don't affect me" thing is just a way to get town PRs off his back.

I also don't know what happened.  I asked ash a bunch of questions and have basically received "no comment" as my answer for every single one.  So I'm at a loss to explain exactly what happened.  Of course, faustA, if you want to know what happened you can just ask faustB because despite what fasutA feels here, fasutB is basically implying that he knows (and knew immediately, since that was his "result" on me) exactly how his night action would resolve on me despite a redirect through WCD.

[shraeye]

I mean, I've already offered to do it.  So, it would be pretty easy to see if I'm lying.

I won't do it if I'm lynched, duh.

If it happens after the lynch, that could be a reason not to lynch you. I wasn't suggesting you would do it if you were lynched. So when does it take place?

I think I can do it anytime I want.  I submit the order in my personal QT.  Nobody will know what's happening until it happens, and my PM suggests no clues (other than what I'm saying right now obviously) will be left about why the skip happened.

[shraeye]

what can his enemy do?

I do not know.  It turns out I was not given a full description of another player in my PM.  I know that sounds absolutely fucking bonkers.  But I guess that's how "hidden role" games work.

[shraeye]

So, if I've answered everything to your hearts content, can we actually start talking about scumhunting now???  I'll start.

I think scum definitely wants me lynched here, but also wants a reason to do it.  a built in "of course we had to lynch him because X".  Faust claiming i'm lying and have lied to him is a real easy banner to stand behind. 

But if you think deeply about it, it's a terrible reason to think I'm lying.  faust claimed i was scum from the getgo, before I had even talked to him in his QT.  Based on whatever I said there he doubled down on the fact that I was scum, now because I "lied".  It turns out this lie was him thinking that I should have been informed night 1 because that's the only way a QT with him would open.  Well I didn't get any N1 information, so obviously something went weird between the WCD->shraeye redirect + shraeye not being able to be targeted.  But no, faust knows exactly what's up and he knows lies when he sees them.

So who's standing behind that banner? and, more importantly, who's standing behind it scummily?

Its skip and E.  reasoning incoming.

[EFHW]

I know you want to move on, but it's a contradiction that the qt request worked and the block didn't.

[mail-mi]

Yeah, I'm with EFHW here. The main contradiction is that the QT request with Faust worked even though it was supposed to either fail or be part of what killed you.

[shraeye]

Skip:

voted for me pre-faust revelation.  Then unvoted when it all went down to reassess:

4/23
12.35, has many questions for me, some for faust; zeros in on the reason faust thinks I'm lying
16.43, doesn't know how fausts version of events makes any more sense than mine
21.46 not comfortable voting for me based on fausts reasons; doesn't know how good fausts reasons are
23.55 tries to see if i've been targeted

4/24
(faust) 00.06 faust says that it's missing N1 info
00.44 wonders what happens with redirections

for the rest of this day mail-mi/Eddie/datswan kick around non-shraeye ideas

4/25
EFHW & Space bring up more questions to me/faust
Then datswan
Then this:

vote: shraeye

I thought shraeye would say stuff and I would read them. No real reason to wait around.

Questions have been asked, shraeye had been V/NA'd, deadline was 6 days away.  Sneaky L-1 with no announcement. This sounds like somebody trying to seal the nail in my coffin BEFORE I get back and can explain myself.

Also, he hadn't given faust any questions whatsoever regarding fausts reasons.  Although he was hesitant to follow faust until reasons are explained, as soon as faust clarifies, skip is 100% in on "shraeye is lying" with no further comment.

[shraeye]

I know you want to move on, but it's a contradiction that the qt request worked and the block didn't.

It could be because a QT opened up on a different night than the night I was somehow "targeted".  It could be because the block actually didn't work (I didn't take any actions so can't be "blocked" from having done nothing).  And while that might explain that, I still haven't really gotten an explanation from ash on why anything worked at all.  It seems pretty clear to me that it shouldn't have, but ash assures me that I will agree at then end.  I doubt it, especially if that's what gets me killed.

[Swowl]

I know you want to move on, but it's a contradiction that the qt request worked and the block didn't.

Wait wtf block?

[Swowl]

I know you want to move on, but it's a contradiction that the qt request worked and the block didn't.

Wait wtf block?

Nvm passive ability got it

[shraeye]

e:

4/23
10.23 high fives faust for his result and votes me (another sneak L-1)
11.01 thinks I just admitted to be lying town
11.04 realizes he missed my explanation both on why I wasn't lying and why i wasn't town (doesn't rethink vote BTW)
13.18 missed the blackmail statement too; realizes he needs to read more carefully (still doesn't unvote)
13.35 reread me; why I'm not voting for Galz if he wasn't survivor (response incoming)
13.37/38 thinks I'm scum now; because skipping a night would be a towny thing to do.
(shraeye) 20.37 explains again that I'm not town and that skipping a night is better for me late game


4/28
04.22 still wants shraeye, but also considers reading someone else (not done yet, though)

Another scenario where his gut reaction is to want me out of the picture, but even when he realizes his reasoning is off, he just shifts goalposts and finds new reasoning to keep thinking the same thing.  His reaction to me trying to clarify things was just a big 5 day break followed by "nah, still feel shraeye".

[shraeye]

It was interesting that they kept harping on the fact that Galzria did not claim survivor. What I am confused about is why, if they were so convinced that Galzria was not a survivor, that they weren't voting Galzria?

Missed this earlier.  I wasn't chirping at Galz.  Others (EFHW comes to mind) kept saying "because Galz is survivor he should/would..." and saying something that applies to the Survivor^TM role.  Except those incentives/play didn't apply in Galz's case.  That's what I kept interjecting about.  I didn't think he was scum, and I didn't think he was a threat to me.  So, no vote.



Is THAT worth any response, e?  Or is it still just blinder-city over there?

[skip wooznum]

Ok. Lots of content. Going to ponder it.

[skip wooznum]

Ok. Lots of content. Going to ponder it.

Might have to wait until other game hits night. Sorry. (Also sorry if I'm not allowed to say this. I'm not exactly clear on the details of that rule. )

[faust]

That would be a good way to confirm your role.

how does that confirm their role? it confirms that they can do that thing. that is it.
I will give you it does seems to fit nicely into a survivor like role, so there is that... but just saying.

A good way to confirm the role right instead of having us wait another night would be to use that claimed dayvig shot. Which, in a twist that surprises noone, shraeye is refusing to do.

[EFHW]

That would be a good way to confirm your role.

how does that confirm their role? it confirms that they can do that thing. that is it.
I will give you it does seems to fit nicely into a survivor like role, so there is that... but just saying.

A good way to confirm the role right instead of having us wait another night would be to use that claimed dayvig shot. Which, in a twist that surprises noone, shraeye is refusing to do.

You want him to use the dayvig?! Who do you think he will choose to target? He won't be looking for scum. Anyway, he says the dayvig only works on his enemy, so unless he aims correctly, the dayvig won't confirm anything.

[faust]

That would be a good way to confirm your role.

how does that confirm their role? it confirms that they can do that thing. that is it.
I will give you it does seems to fit nicely into a survivor like role, so there is that... but just saying.

A good way to confirm the role right instead of having us wait another night would be to use that claimed dayvig shot. Which, in a twist that surprises noone, shraeye is refusing to do.

You want him to use the dayvig?! Who do you think he will choose to target? He won't be looking for scum. Anyway, he says the dayvig only works on his enemy, so unless he aims correctly, the dayvig won't confirm anything.

Yes it will, because he said that whether or not he hits his target, we will be informed that he tried to.

[EFHW]

That would be a good way to confirm your role.

how does that confirm their role? it confirms that they can do that thing. that is it.
I will give you it does seems to fit nicely into a survivor like role, so there is that... but just saying.

A good way to confirm the role right instead of having us wait another night would be to use that claimed dayvig shot. Which, in a twist that surprises noone, shraeye is refusing to do.

You want him to use the dayvig?! Who do you think he will choose to target? He won't be looking for scum. Anyway, he says the dayvig only works on his enemy, so unless he aims correctly, the dayvig won't confirm anything.

Yes it will, because he said that whether or not he hits his target, we will be informed that he tried to.

Oh! Forgot that detail, thanks.

[shraeye]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

[faust]

I'm not using my Last resort.

Then be ready for me to cut your life into pieces.

[shraeye]

I'm not using my Last resort.

Then be ready for me to cut your life into pieces.

I appreciate that reference.

[Swowl]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

why would no one have to be voting you? Is that part of the role? do you mean just if not enough people are voting you to lynch you - or like literally... zero people?

[faust]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

why would no one have to be voting you? Is that part of the role? do you mean just if not enough people are voting you to lynch you - or like literally... zero people?

He's setting up an excuse for when the night phase doesn't get skipped.

[shraeye]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

why would no one have to be voting you? Is that part of the role? do you mean just if not enough people are voting you to lynch you - or like literally... zero people?

It's my own personal bar, currently set out of frustration at faust

[shraeye]

So, why EFHW?  I'm down with that, because it's not me.  But I think you're gonna get more mileage out of skip.  Possibly e, but skip is my first choice for scum

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.8

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
uncle (1): mail-mi


Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

[Swowl]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

why would no one have to be voting you? Is that part of the role? do you mean just if not enough people are voting you to lynch you - or like literally... zero people?

It's my own personal bar, currently set out of frustration at faust

so I am gonna kind of require a more exact answer than that please.

[Swowl]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

why would no one have to be voting you? Is that part of the role? do you mean just if not enough people are voting you to lynch you - or like literally... zero people?

He's setting up an excuse for when the night phase doesn't get skipped.

you think he is fabricating that ability? if there was one part of the role I 100% believed he had, it was that portion. are you not the same way?

[Swowl]

So, why EFHW?  I'm down with that, because it's not me.  But I think you're gonna get more mileage out of skip.  Possibly e, but skip is my first choice for scum

how is skip on a list without MailMi? I don't think either should be, but like the whole education thing and the way they have protected said info makes it kind of hard to put them in separate pools.

[mail-mi]

Yeah, no, skip is not scum. I still think we probably have only one yellow left, but look to Eddie/EFHW if there is a red team.

[skip wooznum]

Well there has been a lot of information about shraeye's role and I've been having difficulty sorting it all out. Contributing to the difficulty is the problem of how much to believe him and that even if I do choose to believe him, I'm still only getting a secondhand version of his role because he can only paraphrase. So I'm fairly jumbled.

@shraeye, why, exactly don't you want to shoot somebody? Just take a potshot and hope you hit your hunter. Would you shoot somebody if we threatened to lynch you otherwise?

[Swowl]

Well there has been a lot of information about shraeye's role and I've been having difficulty sorting it all out. Contributing to the difficulty is the problem of how much to believe him and that even if I do choose to believe him, I'm still only getting a secondhand version of his role because he can only paraphrase. So I'm fairly jumbled.

@shraeye, why, exactly don't you want to shoot somebody? Just take a potshot and hope you hit your hunter. Would you shoot somebody if we threatened to lynch you otherwise?

if we threaten to lynch you if you don't tell us what an education is would you tell us?

[Swowl]

the previous was meant more to prove a point in the uselessness of the question.

[skip wooznum]

But shraeye had implied that he wouldn't do it even if we threatened to lynch him. I was just clarifying if I understood him correctly.

[Swowl]

also at skip and MailMi - If you are both so damn sure that each of you are town, then why would you not follow one and other on a same wagon in this spot?

[faust]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

why would no one have to be voting you? Is that part of the role? do you mean just if not enough people are voting you to lynch you - or like literally... zero people?

He's setting up an excuse for when the night phase doesn't get skipped.

you think he is fabricating that ability? if there was one part of the role I 100% believed he had, it was that portion. are you not the same way?

No, I think it's all made up.

[faust]

Request prod on Space

This is all going nowhere, and has been for like 5 days. Can we get another IC to step in?

[skip wooznum]

also at skip and MailMi - If you are both so damn sure that each of you are town, then why would you not follow one and other on a same wagon in this spot?

I just want to clearly state this: I have no information suggesting mail-mi is town. I never said I did.

[Swowl]

also at skip and MailMi - If you are both so damn sure that each of you are town, then why would you not follow one and other on a same wagon in this spot?

I just want to clearly state this: I have no information suggesting mail-mi is town. I never said I did.

fair enough. taken back then I suppose. it was only one way looking back at it.

[Swowl]

shraeye - I don't think I got an answer before, and if that was intentional then... well not ok I guess I kind of want one... but what is your win con?

[shraeye]

I'm not using my Last resort.  I already said that.  I'm 100% sure that's why Faust is asking me to do it.

Faust is way more interested in lynching me to justify his own play than he is in listening or understanding.

We'll skip night if nobody is voting for me at the end of day.  Can't convince Faust to back down? Then enjoy night kill(s).

why would no one have to be voting you? Is that part of the role? do you mean just if not enough people are voting you to lynch you - or like literally... zero people?

It's my own personal bar, currently set out of frustration at faust

so I am gonna kind of require a more exact answer than that please.

Whether I do it or not is my option.  Im getting frustrated at Faust.  Because of that I don't feel like doing it unless y'all can convince him to dismount this horse.

[shraeye]

shraeye - I don't think I got an answer before, and if that was intentional then... well not ok I guess I kind of want one... but what is your win con?

It's in my second big post from yesterday.  Phone quoting sucks.  #1523 I think?

[shraeye]

Yeah, no, skip is not scum. I still think we probably have only one yellow left, but look to Eddie/EFHW if there is a red team.

Even though Eddie's been harping on EFHW all day?

[Swowl]

shraeye - I don't think I got an answer before, and if that was intentional then... well not ok I guess I kind of want one... but what is your win con?

It's in my second big post from yesterday.  Phone quoting sucks.  #1523 I think?

ah yeah got it - so just to clarify.... you have no clue what it is that could possibly change your win con?

[shraeye]

I do have a clue (also in those posts).  But no clue what it becomes. That's different than in the previous falling skies game where I did know. Ash has provided no clarification

[faust]

@shraeye, why, exactly don't you want to shoot somebody? Just take a potshot and hope you hit your hunter. Would you shoot somebody if we threatened to lynch you otherwise?

Because he can't. This isn't rocket science. shraeye's claimed role offers 2 ways of confirming parts of it, yet faced with his outing and probable lynch he did not offer either; he agreed to skipping the Night only after I pointed it out to him, and is now walking it back. And even though there is no clear downside, and no upside to waiting, he is refusing to shoot.

The reason is obviously that he has neither of these abilities. He's a scum who's trying to weasel out at least another Night where he lives, and another lynch made with no certainty that his team exists.

He's also using the whole "ashersky is being super vague" excuse, the same one Galzria used to cover up inconsistencies in his fakeclaim.

[mail-mi]

Yeah, no, skip is not scum. I still think we probably have only one yellow left, but look to Eddie/EFHW if there is a red team.

Even though Eddie's been harping on EFHW all day?

Did you see my rereads of them? I think it's a bus.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, no, skip is not scum. I still think we probably have only one yellow left, but look to Eddie/EFHW if there is a red team.

Even though Eddie's been harping on EFHW all day?

Did you see my rereads of them? I think it's a bus.

Only two ways to find out.

Wait...

[faust]

Hey mail-mi, Eddie, how is that whole "close your eyes and pretend the lies aren't obvious" approach with regards to shraeye working out for you?

[mail-mi]

Hey mail-mi, Eddie, how is that whole "close your eyes and pretend the lies aren't obvious" approach with regards to shraeye working out for you?

I mean, he's getting more suspicious, but I think I still believe him for now

[SpaceAnemone]

Request prod on Space

This is all going nowhere, and has been for like 5 days. Can we get another IC to step in?

Wow, sorry for going prodable. I'm keeping up, and thought I'd made a post yesterday, but keep second-guessing myself about whether it's a good idea for me to express reads at this point.

[skip wooznum]

Request prod on Space

This is all going nowhere, and has been for like 5 days. Can we get another IC to step in?

Wow, sorry for going prodable. I'm keeping up, and thought I'd made a post yesterday, but keep second-guessing myself about whether it's a good idea for me to express reads at this point.

Do you think shraeye is lying?

1) He won't shoot
2) He cannot explain how he was hit with a qt from faust
3) He's making an arbitrary ultimatum to get out of skipping night

ps: I just realized that he probably is refusing to shoot because he actually did get blocked by faust, and already committed to the lie. @faust how long does your block last?

[SpaceAnemone]

Here's my current thinking:

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

Faust is highly likely to be town. I don't buy the "blackmail" thing about Shraeye feeling forced into saying faust was introduced by Ash in their shared QT with green text, because Shraeye clearly knows that faust isn't going to be fully persuasive in a conversation in the main thread if it's just one person's word against another. That makes me tend to beleive that he said faust's text is green because it really was green, and Shraeye knows that letting faust know for certain that he's non-town by lying about it isn't good for Shraeye's survival, whatever faction Shraeye turns out to be.

I also get really scummy vibes from Mail-mi, particularly because his Shraeye read just doesn't feel genuine to me. In D2 he agreed that looking at the D1 wagons, he really ought to scumread Shraeye, but now he's just finding more reasons not to. Meanwhile Shraeye's big scumreads conveniently don't go near Mail-mi either. I'm kind of minded to want to lync mail-mi, and then if he flips scum, follow that up with Shraeye.

I'm also aware that I don't really have enough of a theory about how Eddie or EFHW fit in at the moment. Incidentally, whether or not mail-mi flips scum, I think his insistence that Skip is townie probably makes Skip townier in my eyes, given that there's a white-knighing sort incentive for mail-mi there.

PPE 1: Sorry.. question-answering will have to wait a little longer because I'm about to cook dinner and host a virtual boardgames night :-)

[mail-mi]

I also get really scummy vibes from Mail-mi, particularly because his Shraeye read just doesn't feel genuine to me. In D2 he agreed that looking at the D1 wagons, he really ought to scumread Shraeye, but now he's just finding more reasons not to. Meanwhile Shraeye's big scumreads conveniently don't go near Mail-mi either. I'm kind of minded to want to lync mail-mi, and then if he flips scum, follow that up with Shraeye.

I scumread shraeye? Honestly there's been so much not happening, and focusing a lot on the other game that I just forgot what my reads were, other than the reread I did on Eddie and EFHW. If I have time I'll do a shraeye reread.

[Swowl]

@shraeye, why, exactly don't you want to shoot somebody? Just take a potshot and hope you hit your hunter. Would you shoot somebody if we threatened to lynch you otherwise?

Because he can't. This isn't rocket science. shraeye's claimed role offers 2 ways of confirming parts of it, yet faced with his outing and probable lynch he did not offer either; he agreed to skipping the Night only after I pointed it out to him, and is now walking it back. And even though there is no clear downside, and no upside to waiting, he is refusing to shoot.

The reason is obviously that he has neither of these abilities. He's a scum who's trying to weasel out at least another Night where he lives, and another lynch made with no certainty that his team exists.

He's also using the whole "ashersky is being super vague" excuse, the same one Galzria used to cover up inconsistencies in his fakeclaim.

I had also noticed this from some previous posts.  I can't decide if it is like skummy or not though. Example being that it did not work out well for Galz.

[EFHW]

The vagueness really bothers me. Most mafia roles make sense, at least to the person playing them.

[faust]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

[faust]

@shraeye, why, exactly don't you want to shoot somebody? Just take a potshot and hope you hit your hunter. Would you shoot somebody if we threatened to lynch you otherwise?

Because he can't. This isn't rocket science. shraeye's claimed role offers 2 ways of confirming parts of it, yet faced with his outing and probable lynch he did not offer either; he agreed to skipping the Night only after I pointed it out to him, and is now walking it back. And even though there is no clear downside, and no upside to waiting, he is refusing to shoot.

The reason is obviously that he has neither of these abilities. He's a scum who's trying to weasel out at least another Night where he lives, and another lynch made with no certainty that his team exists.

He's also using the whole "ashersky is being super vague" excuse, the same one Galzria used to cover up inconsistencies in his fakeclaim.

I had also noticed this from some previous posts.  I can't decide if it is like skummy or not though. Example being that it did not work out well for Galz.

It's scummy. Sure, scum would prefer not to make vague claims, but the truth is that if they are forced to make up a fakeclaim on short notice then there will be some gaps, and the vagueness helps prevent people poking holes in that fakeclaim.

[SpaceAnemone]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Here's my question and Mail-mi's response. I think in my memory, he appeared slightly more willing to consider Shraeye than he actually does here, so it's nice that he got me to go and look out the actual quote :-P

Note that faust also called him out for colouring Galz purple in this post, which was before the Galz flip, when Galz being mafia was one of the current hypotheses. Of course, if mail-mi is mafia-coloured, he'd have known for sure that Galz was not, and would therefore have coloured him accordingly using the traditional third-party purple.

Going back to the wagon, from mail-mi's point of view now, it has to be Shraeye, Swan or faust. Shraeye is still someone he's actively trying not to lynch. He hasn't given any indication that he doesn't believe that faust is town, and yet he's also not making any noise about Swan, who would be the PoE candidate here. Though Swan left the wagon at #409 anyway, leaving mail-mi and Shraeye as the only two alignment-unconfirmed people voting for the easy town mislynch.

Oh, and the last thing I found off about mail-mi was his insistence that we should be looking for a third Galz-Cayvie faction member today, rather than hunting for our hypothesized red-mafia group. I can see that mindset coming from a member of non-yellow scum more than from town, because as town we just don't know where the NKs are coming from, but if red-scum knows that there are still kills that they're not responsible for, it makes more sense to look (or pretend to look) for more yellow-faction people while looking for other third-party players who might be causing kills.

PPE: faust

[SpaceAnemone]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

[Swowl]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Here's my question and Mail-mi's response. I think in my memory, he appeared slightly more willing to consider Shraeye than he actually does here, so it's nice that he got me to go and look out the actual quote :-P

Note that faust also called him out for colouring Galz purple in this post, which was before the Galz flip, when Galz being mafia was one of the current hypotheses. Of course, if mail-mi is mafia-coloured, he'd have known for sure that Galz was not, and would therefore have coloured him accordingly using the traditional third-party purple.

Going back to the wagon, from mail-mi's point of view now, it has to be Shraeye, Swan or faust. Shraeye is still someone he's actively trying not to lynch. He hasn't given any indication that he doesn't believe that faust is town, and yet he's also not making any noise about Swan, who would be the PoE candidate here. Though Swan left the wagon at #409 anyway, leaving mail-mi and Shraeye as the only two alignment-unconfirmed people voting for the easy town mislynch.

Oh, and the last thing I found off about mail-mi was his insistence that we should be looking for a third Galz-Cayvie faction member today, rather than hunting for our hypothesized red-mafia group. I can see that mindset coming from a member of non-yellow scum more than from town, because as town we just don't know where the NKs are coming from, but if red-scum knows that there are still kills that they're not responsible for, it makes more sense to look (or pretend to look) for more yellow-faction people while looking for other third-party players who might be causing kills.

PPE: faust

1) very interesting on the purple color thing. the timing is weird. I mean its not damning by any means but it is a "strange color" to use.

2) Mail Mi put themselves as green (which I am actually one of those people that don't give a crap about that), but just saying - poe coming down to Swan is not accurate. a)because I left the wagon and b) because poe would be if I were included - Swan or MailMi.

If I gotta be on the list I will be on the list, but I want the whole list there

[Swowl]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

Meh... I kind of find it unlikely that he has something like condemning in extra info right? Why not just state it? He is already conf!town (ish).. do we think it is best to push on that front rn?

[SpaceAnemone]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Here's my question and Mail-mi's response. I think in my memory, he appeared slightly more willing to consider Shraeye than he actually does here, so it's nice that he got me to go and look out the actual quote :-P

Note that faust also called him out for colouring Galz purple in this post, which was before the Galz flip, when Galz being mafia was one of the current hypotheses. Of course, if mail-mi is mafia-coloured, he'd have known for sure that Galz was not, and would therefore have coloured him accordingly using the traditional third-party purple.

Going back to the wagon, from mail-mi's point of view now, it has to be Shraeye, Swan or faust. Shraeye is still someone he's actively trying not to lynch. He hasn't given any indication that he doesn't believe that faust is town, and yet he's also not making any noise about Swan, who would be the PoE candidate here. Though Swan left the wagon at #409 anyway, leaving mail-mi and Shraeye as the only two alignment-unconfirmed people voting for the easy town mislynch.

Oh, and the last thing I found off about mail-mi was his insistence that we should be looking for a third Galz-Cayvie faction member today, rather than hunting for our hypothesized red-mafia group. I can see that mindset coming from a member of non-yellow scum more than from town, because as town we just don't know where the NKs are coming from, but if red-scum knows that there are still kills that they're not responsible for, it makes more sense to look (or pretend to look) for more yellow-faction people while looking for other third-party players who might be causing kills.

PPE: faust

1) very interesting on the purple color thing. the timing is weird. I mean its not damning by any means but it is a "strange color" to use.

2) Mail Mi put themselves as green (which I am actually one of those people that don't give a crap about that), but just saying - poe coming down to Swan is not accurate. a)because I left the wagon and b) because poe would be if I were included - Swan or MailMi.

If I gotta be on the list I will be on the list, but I want the whole list there

For your point 2, I think you miss that I was specifically referring to mail-mi's point of view, so to him, if he's green, then you or Shraeye (or fuast) ought to be red, given that he'd stated a belief that there ought to be at least one scum on a wagon like that. So since mail-mi is quite strongly defending Shraeye, I feel that it ought to colour his perception of you more than I think it does.

[SpaceAnemone]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

Meh... I kind of find it unlikely that he has something like condemning in extra info right? Why not just state it? He is already conf!town (ish).. do we think it is best to push on that front rn?

I'm thinking specifically of this, and wondering whether I missed any update on it:

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

[skip wooznum]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

Meh... I kind of find it unlikely that he has something like condemning in extra info right? Why not just state it? He is already conf!town (ish).. do we think it is best to push on that front rn?

I'm thinking specifically of this, and wondering whether I missed any update on it:

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

I don't want to speak for Faust, but I think that in that post he's referring to shraeye claiming not to have received a message about being blocked, which Faust is maintaining must be a lie because the blocking happens to whomever it is that receives the qt invite.

[skip wooznum]

It's hard to comment on faust's reasons for thinking shraeye is scum, because those reasons have not been made public. They might be good reasons.

I'd be more comfortable if he shared them.

Can do. I mean I already shared the part where he seemed to have checked for QTs and still didn't seem to have found mine. The second part is this:

The power that I used to get shraeye into the Neighborhood is one I used N1. (I did not actually target shraeye) Part of that power, in addition to being invited to the Neighborhood N2, was that all actions shraeye took N1 were block, and that he would be informed that he was unable to use night actions. However, he claimed that nothing like that happened to him over the course of the game.

Here is the post.

[Swowl]

A similar question to @Mail-mi, about the MiX wagon from about #400. The wagon reached 7 at its peak (#320), but then faust moved off. LL and pubby were there, as was claimed-third-party Galz. Swan left the wagon at #409. What is your impression of the scum team's movements at that point, in terms of where they were voting if the MiX mislynch perhaps wasn't a big focus for them? Do you infer anything about Shraeye's or Swan's alignment?

Let me go take a look at those posts.

So the wagon at its peak was [mail-mi, shraeye, Galzria, DatSwan, faust, LaLight, pubby]. I find it hard to believe that there are no scum on this wagon, considering it was on town. I have a bit of a townier read on shraeye (no particular reason, just feelings and experiences with playing with shraeye in the past) so I'd say faust/DatSwan is more likely to be scum here. I'd have to do a reread of both to be certain, but I'd definitely be willing to switch to either of them (or shraeye if necessary) if it comes down to it.

Here's my question and Mail-mi's response. I think in my memory, he appeared slightly more willing to consider Shraeye than he actually does here, so it's nice that he got me to go and look out the actual quote :-P

Note that faust also called him out for colouring Galz purple in this post, which was before the Galz flip, when Galz being mafia was one of the current hypotheses. Of course, if mail-mi is mafia-coloured, he'd have known for sure that Galz was not, and would therefore have coloured him accordingly using the traditional third-party purple.

Going back to the wagon, from mail-mi's point of view now, it has to be Shraeye, Swan or faust. Shraeye is still someone he's actively trying not to lynch. He hasn't given any indication that he doesn't believe that faust is town, and yet he's also not making any noise about Swan, who would be the PoE candidate here. Though Swan left the wagon at #409 anyway, leaving mail-mi and Shraeye as the only two alignment-unconfirmed people voting for the easy town mislynch.

Oh, and the last thing I found off about mail-mi was his insistence that we should be looking for a third Galz-Cayvie faction member today, rather than hunting for our hypothesized red-mafia group. I can see that mindset coming from a member of non-yellow scum more than from town, because as town we just don't know where the NKs are coming from, but if red-scum knows that there are still kills that they're not responsible for, it makes more sense to look (or pretend to look) for more yellow-faction people while looking for other third-party players who might be causing kills.

PPE: faust

1) very interesting on the purple color thing. the timing is weird. I mean its not damning by any means but it is a "strange color" to use.

2) Mail Mi put themselves as green (which I am actually one of those people that don't give a crap about that), but just saying - poe coming down to Swan is not accurate. a)because I left the wagon and b) because poe would be if I were included - Swan or MailMi.

If I gotta be on the list I will be on the list, but I want the whole list there

For your point 2, I think you miss that I was specifically referring to mail-mi's point of view, so to him, if he's green, then you or Shraeye (or fuast) ought to be red, given that he'd stated a belief that there ought to be at least one scum on a wagon like that. So since mail-mi is quite strongly defending Shraeye, I feel that it ought to colour his perception of you more than I think it does.

ah yeah I just misinterpreted what you were going with then totally. nvm!

[SpaceAnemone]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

Meh... I kind of find it unlikely that he has something like condemning in extra info right? Why not just state it? He is already conf!town (ish).. do we think it is best to push on that front rn?

I'm thinking specifically of this, and wondering whether I missed any update on it:

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

I don't want to speak for Faust, but I think that in that post he's referring to shraeye claiming not to have received a message about being blocked, which Faust is maintaining must be a lie because the blocking happens to whomever it is that receives the qt invite.

Aha, thank you for finding and re-posting that response from faust. I was indeed missing that piece. I feel like a paranoid survivor-type role might also deny having had their power blocked, so it's not exactly a guilty cop result.

I don't think at this stage anyone is contradicting faust on the fact that Shraeye lied to the thread, are they? I mean, flat-out denying that anything QT-like had happened, and then changing that later to say that actually, yes there is a QT and faust is green already qualifies as having lied in my opinion.

The question is just whether anyone other than faust is so totally convinced that lying to the thread in that way is so much more indicative of red-scum than a survivor. I honestly think that Shraeye is scummy, and that faust is convinced, and is frustrated that the rest of us aren't biting. But it's also concerning to me that faust puts such a high confidence on something I don't feel is so damning, which is why I was asking for clarification about whether there's more to it.

[SpaceAnemone]

We have just over 24 hours remaining. I'm happy to put Shraeye up to L-1, but I'm about to head to bed, so I'd rather leave it till I'm more awake.

I feel like I'm not going to vote outside of {Shraeye, mail-mi} today. I'm aware that there are some votes on EFHW, but I think the evidence against her (at least for me) is related to the cases against these other two, so flips will help. And if anyone wants to vote outside of {Shraeye, mail-mi, EFHW}, I think that needs considerable justification.

Does anyone (other than probably Shraeye!) think I'm talking nonsense or missing something important?

@Shraeye, sorry, I know we tend not to see eye to eye even when we're both town, and I don't mean to single you out in a negative way. I really feel here like you're caught scum, or at least caught non-town, and there's not much you can do to rescue that. And I'm guessing you're not being granted a lot of sleep and stuff right now, so this must be extra-tough. I wish you well :-)

[ashersky]

Vote Count: 3.9

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (3): faust, EFHW, 2.7
uncle (1): mail-mi


Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at 20:00 on May 1 forum time.

My actual availability right at the deadline moment is unknown, but at some point around that time I will definitely be here.

[skip wooznum]

Does anyone (other than probably Shraeye!) think I'm talking nonsense or missing something important?

I agree with most of what you've said and you're posts definitely helped me get a clearer picture of things in my head.

I'm with you that we should be lynching shraeye or mail-mi, but I think shraeye is the place to start, and depending on his flip, we'll take it from there.

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

[skip wooznum]

Does anyone (other than probably Shraeye!) think I'm talking nonsense or missing something important?

I agree with most of what you've said and your posts definitely helped me get a clearer picture of things in my head.

I'm with you that we should be lynching shraeye or mail-mi, but I think shraeye is the place to start, and depending on his flip, we'll take it from there.

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

[shraeye]

Request prod on Space

This is all going nowhere, and has been for like 5 days. Can we get another IC to step in?

Wow, sorry for going prodable. I'm keeping up, and thought I'd made a post yesterday, but keep second-guessing myself about whether it's a good idea for me to express reads at this point.

Do you think shraeye is lying?

1) He won't shoot
2) He cannot explain how he was hit with a qt from faust
3) He's making an arbitrary ultimatum to get out of skipping night

ps: I just realized that he probably is refusing to shoot because he actually did get blocked by faust, and already committed to the lie. @faust how long does your block last?

It's not arbitrary, and the power is in your hands.  Want me to not skip out?  I've just presented a perfectly easy way for that to happen.  Don't want it?  Not my fault.

[shraeye]

Request prod on Space

This is all going nowhere, and has been for like 5 days. Can we get another IC to step in?

Wow, sorry for going prodable. I'm keeping up, and thought I'd made a post yesterday, but keep second-guessing myself about whether it's a good idea for me to express reads at this point.

Do you think shraeye is lying?

1) He won't shoot
2) He cannot explain how he was hit with a qt from faust
3) He's making an arbitrary ultimatum to get out of skipping night

ps: I just realized that he probably is refusing to shoot because he actually did get blocked by faust, and already committed to the lie. @faust how long does your block last?

You're honestly saying you would have shot night one with my role??  Skip is scum, but hey why listen to me?

[shraeye]

. I don't buy the "blackmail" thing about Shraeye feeling forced into saying faust was introduced by Ash in their shared QT with green text, because Shraeye clearly knows that faust isn't going to be fully persuasive in a conversation in the main thread if it's just one person's word against another.

A) tough, blackmail is what happened
B) Faust had a real hard time convincing e, right right.

[shraeye]

The vagueness really bothers me. Most mafia roles make sense, at least to the person playing them.

You realize the number and detail of questions being asked, right?  Like, somebody asked me what another players powers are. 

[shraeye]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

Meh... I kind of find it unlikely that he has something like condemning in extra info right? Why not just state it? He is already conf!town (ish).. do we think it is best to push on that front rn?

I'm thinking specifically of this, and wondering whether I missed any update on it:

@Space, all the stuff I told cayvie in the QT is correct, I did not try to mislead there. I did however leave some things out, and part of what I left out is how I know shraeye is lying.

I don't want to speak for Faust, but I think that in that post he's referring to shraeye claiming not to have received a message about being blocked, which Faust is maintaining must be a lie because the blocking happens to whomever it is that receives the qt invite.

Aha, thank you for finding and re-posting that response from faust. I was indeed missing that piece. I feel like a paranoid survivor-type role might also deny having had their power blocked, so it's not exactly a guilty cop result.

I don't think at this stage anyone is contradicting faust on the fact that Shraeye lied to the thread, are they? I mean, flat-out denying that anything QT-like had happened, and then changing that later to say that actually, yes there is a QT and faust is green already qualifies as having lied in my opinion.

The question is just whether anyone other than faust is so totally convinced that lying to the thread in that way is so much more indicative of red-scum than a survivor. I honestly think that Shraeye is scummy, and that faust is convinced, and is frustrated that the rest of us aren't biting. But it's also concerning to me that faust puts such a high confidence on something I don't feel is so damning, which is why I was asking for clarification about whether there's more to it.

I do refute lying.  Faust asked if anything happened last night and I said no withot checking.  I didn't have to check because I was told I couldn't be targeted. 

It turns out I was wrong, but to paint that as lying automatically puts it in a sinister light, when I was consistently stating my honest belief

[faust]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

No, I'm basing this on information that has been shared.

[skip wooznum]

Request prod on Space

This is all going nowhere, and has been for like 5 days. Can we get another IC to step in?

Wow, sorry for going prodable. I'm keeping up, and thought I'd made a post yesterday, but keep second-guessing myself about whether it's a good idea for me to express reads at this point.

Do you think shraeye is lying?

1) He won't shoot
2) He cannot explain how he was hit with a qt from faust
3) He's making an arbitrary ultimatum to get out of skipping night

ps: I just realized that he probably is refusing to shoot because he actually did get blocked by faust, and already committed to the lie. @faust how long does your block last?

You're honestly saying you would have shot night one with my role??  Skip is scum, but hey why listen to me?

No. I'm not saying that.

[skip wooznum]

I'm saying you should shoot right now.

[SpaceAnemone]

Shraeye is 100% not town, but there's a moderate chance that he's survivor-flavoured rather than mafia-flavoured.

I think shraeye has a lower chance to flip Survivor than any given other player has to flip town.

You're basing this certainty on extra info you have that you're still not sharing with the thread, and that you didn't mention in last night's QT, though, right? Or did I actually miss something?

No, I'm basing this on information that has been shared.

So this is the points about denying there was anything in the QT from N2, and then also not revealing that he ought to have received a "blocked" notification N1 as well?

I agree it's suspicious, and you've outed him as non-town because of it, but I don't think it's definitively mafia-flavoured rather than survivor-flavoured.

Shraeye's version of events is that he wasn't checking his QT because he didn't think he could be targetted, and didn't want to activate his role at that point, I think. I can believe that someone in that position would just not think to check for random QT invitations in that instance, becuase I did just that on N3. Maybe Shraeye's mind should perhaps have been more focused on it during D2, when he could have checked his QT and found he'd been targeted N1, once Galz revealed that he had random people pulled into a QT, and others seemed to be supporting that story.

OTOH, as a scum-faction player, Shraeye would have had to have gone to the QT site in order to converse in the scum QT at night anyway, so he'd have been more likely to notice a mesage in his personal QT than survivor!Shraeye overall. Or is that just reflecting the way I handle my QTs, and not the general pattern for others? However, as a red-scum, he'd also have more incentive to deny having been affected by other people's actions, hence the denial about having seen messages/been targeted etc.

I think your inference is that the scum-faction scenario sounds less unlikely, and that a priori if we have a red-scum faction, the individual chance of Shraeye belonging to that faction is higher than the chance of him being a suvivor, therefore you believe overwhelmingly that he's most likely to be scum. Does this sum it up adequately?

[faust]

I think your inference is that the scum-faction scenario sounds less unlikely, and that a priori if we have a red-scum faction, the individual chance of Shraeye belonging to that faction is higher than the chance of him being a suvivor, therefore you believe overwhelmingly that he's most likely to be scum. Does this sum it up adequately?

Not really. I believe he's scum because he's clearly lying about his claim. He definitely doesn't have the power to shoot and probably doesn't have the power to skip a Night.

The only reason shraeye has to lie here, as already claimed non-town, is if his actual role is more hurtful to town than his claimed role. His claimed role is already a liability, so you can only imagine how bad his true role must be.

I'm not making any assumptions about shraeye's coloring.

[faust]

I agree it's suspicious, and you've outed him as non-town because of it, but I don't think it's definitively mafia-flavoured rather than survivor-flavoured.

No, I outed him as non-town because he claimed non-town to me and knowing who is and isn't town seemed like relevant information to the rest of town.

[faust]

I implied that I had some sort of result on him, that wasn't true, it was just the way he handled the QT that was supremely scummy. But I think believing that I had a result is what led shraeye to claim Survivor rather than town, so it all worked out just fine.

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: Shraeye

That's L-1.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think as IC I can get away with suggesting this publicly:

Ash, I noticed that one of our players has posted a VLA that may coincide with the first 24 hours of the night phase. Since the timing also makes me think it's likely to be a hard VLA, could we have enough of a night deadline extension that even if that player is on an evil faction, they have time to converse with hypothetical teammates and submit an action?

FWIW, I think Skip is quite townie here, but it wouldn't be fun for the game to have people's outside constriants interfere with our inference :-)

Oh, and apologies to Ash if I'm back-seat modding over something he's already thought of and planned for! Or maybe something entirely unexpected will happen instead anyway.

[mail-mi]

vote: shraeye

Thank goodness that's over with

[mail-mi]

I'll explain more tomorrow. I'm shraye's hunter.

[skip wooznum]

The heck?!

Mail-mi, you town?

[skip wooznum]

 Explain more now pleases thanks

[mail-mi]

The heck?!

Mail-mi, you town?

No. I'm a survivor variant as well. That's why I think there's only the yellow scum team.

[mail-mi]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

[faust]

Well, someone for sure is out there killing people.

[skip wooznum]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

@space, you might have missed this

[skip wooznum]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

So do you know his alignment?

[skip wooznum]

Like, is he sk or survivor?

[mail-mi]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

So do you know his alignment?

I don't.

[skip wooznum]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

So you have a night kill? Have you been using it?

[mail-mi]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

So you have a night kill? Have you been using it?

No. I don't want to claim everything about my role right now.

[SpaceAnemone]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

The only thing that I know of that happened to me last night was getting sucked into the Galz-faction petition QT. And I did just go back to my QT to check I hadn't missed anything :-P

[mail-mi]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

So you have a night kill? Have you been using it?

No. I don't want to claim everything about my role right now.

Well, I guess I shouldn't say no, but I don't have a factional nightly NK if that's what you're asking.

[skip wooznum]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

hmm. Anyone else get educated last night?

The only thing that I know of that happened to me last night was getting sucked into the Galz-faction petition QT. And I did just go back to my QT to check I hadn't missed anything :-P

[EFHW]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

The only thing that I know of that happened to me last night was getting sucked into the Galz-faction petition QT. And I did just go back to my QT to check I hadn't missed anything :-P

Can you say more about the petition qt? I feel like that got short shrift this game day.

[skip wooznum]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

The only thing that I know of that happened to me last night was getting sucked into the Galz-faction petition QT. And I did just go back to my QT to check I hadn't missed anything :-P

hmm anyone else get educated last night

[EFHW]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

hmm. Anyone else get educated last night?

The only thing that I know of that happened to me last night was getting sucked into the Galz-faction petition QT. And I did just go back to my QT to check I hadn't missed anything :-P

Where did that education statement come from? It wasn't the same post as the qt comments.

[EFHW]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

hmm. Anyone else get educated last night?

The only thing that I know of that happened to me last night was getting sucked into the Galz-faction petition QT. And I did just go back to my QT to check I hadn't missed anything :-P

Where did that education statement come from? It wasn't the same post as the qt comments.

Ok, quote fail, I see.

[skip wooznum]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

So you have a night kill? Have you been using it?

No. I don't want to claim everything about my role right now.

Well, I guess I shouldn't say no, but I don't have a factional nightly NK if that's what you're asking.

Have you nk'ed anyone this game as of yet?

[mail-mi]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

So you have a night kill? Have you been using it?

No. I don't want to claim everything about my role right now.

Well, I guess I shouldn't say no, but I don't have a factional nightly NK if that's what you're asking.

Have you nk'ed anyone this game as of yet?

No.

[SpaceAnemone]

On a side note, I'd appreciate a confirmation from you that something vaguely good happened to you last night, at the very least so I can know whether I've been redirected again.

The only thing that I know of that happened to me last night was getting sucked into the Galz-faction petition QT. And I did just go back to my QT to check I hadn't missed anything :-P

Can you say more about the petition qt? I feel like that got short shrift this game day.

It's probably not that useful to say much more. The talking participants were faust and Cayvie. I thought Cayvie did a good job of pretending that she knew nothing about Galz. The one weird thing that she said was that some of Galz's behaviour had been motivated by wanting people not to sign the petition. Given the context, I think it was easy to read as a typo/braino, though. Other than that, faust outlined why he was getting concerned about Shraeye, and I think everything that was said in there and out here matches up.

[skip wooznum]

I've had about enough survivor claims this game to last me a lifetime.

[Swowl]

word.
well this looks done.
I can throw a +1 on there to be safe, but if there is loved I would be stealing the hammer from MailMi

[SpaceAnemone]

word.
well this looks done.
I can throw a +1 on there to be safe, but if there is loved I would be stealing the hammer from MailMi

An extra vote probably doesn't hurt. I think nither Shraeye nor Mail-mi has a town wincon, so I wouldn't be too worried about stealing a hanmmer...

[skip wooznum]

word.
well this looks done.
I can throw a +1 on there to be safe, but if there is loved I would be stealing the hammer from MailMi

An extra vote probably doesn't hurt. I think nither Shraeye nor Mail-mi has a town wincon, so I wouldn't be too worried about stealing a hanmmer...

Alternatively we could take a step back and maybe lynch Mail-mi.

[skip wooznum]

word.
well this looks done.
I can throw a +1 on there to be safe, but if there is loved I would be stealing the hammer from MailMi

An extra vote probably doesn't hurt. I think nither Shraeye nor Mail-mi has a town wincon, so I wouldn't be too worried about stealing a hanmmer...

Alternatively we could take a step back and maybe lynch Mail-mi.

Or anyone, really.

vote count?

[SpaceAnemone]

word.
well this looks done.
I can throw a +1 on there to be safe, but if there is loved I would be stealing the hammer from MailMi

An extra vote probably doesn't hurt. I think nither Shraeye nor Mail-mi has a town wincon, so I wouldn't be too worried about stealing a hanmmer...

Alternatively we could take a step back and maybe lynch Mail-mi.

I think I'd be even more suspicious that Shraeye's role is something anti-town if he isn't hammered already.

I think it would be good to pile one or two more votes onto Shraeye, then maybe move the pile over onto mail-mi, just in case Shraeye is lynchproof or something. We're under 4 hours from deadline now, and moving votes onto mail-mi won't matter if Shraeye is actaully lynched, but could matter otherwise.

[skip wooznum]

vote: shraeye

[SpaceAnemone]

Great, so absenting any weird voting shenanigans, I make this the current count:

Shraeye (6): faust, EFHW, 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, mail-mi, skip wooznum
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, DatSwan
Not Voting (1): Shraeye

[SpaceAnemone]

Ashersky just hasn't been active on the site for the past few hours, so there's no particular reason (other than that this is an RMM!) to expect that Mail-mi's vote wasn't the hammer after all.

Is there apetite for piling a number of votes onto Mail-mi now just in case?

Vote: Mail-mi

[skip wooznum]

vote: mail-mi

[skip wooznum]

This is fun

[mail-mi]

I mean, I think it would be pretty bastard if I have to hammer shraeye but he's actually loved so I don't know that my vote actually is the hammer.

[Swowl]

I mean if Shraeye is lynch proof I think it would still "end the day when hammer hits" right?

I mean whatever Ill play along with
Vote: Mail-Mi
in case someone knows better than I do, but I think at +1 probably we got it done on Shraeye there.

[skip wooznum]

I mean, I think it would be pretty bastard if I have to hammer shraeye but he's actually loved so I don't know that my vote actually is the hammer.

Did you know all along shraeye was the one you had to kill?

[mail-mi]

I mean, I think it would be pretty bastard if I have to hammer shraeye but he's actually loved so I don't know that my vote actually is the hammer.

Did you know all along shraeye was the one you had to kill?

Not til Faust outed him as the last princess.

[Swowl]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

confused Mail Mi - this reads to me that you either need to NK shraeye or hammer them... is that not what you meant?

[mail-mi]

Explain more now pleases thanks

To win, I have to kill the Last Princess (which is either with a NK or a hammer) and be alive at the end of the game.

confused Mail Mi - this reads to me that you either need to NK shraeye or hammer them... is that not what you meant?

Yes, what are you confused about?

[Swowl]

I mean, I think it would be pretty bastard if I have to hammer shraeye but he's actually loved so I don't know that my vote actually is the hammer.

this?

[SpaceAnemone]

I mean, I think it would be pretty bastard if I have to hammer shraeye but he's actually loved so I don't know that my vote actually is the hammer.

this?

Presumably that's in reference to the fact that Skip and I were talking about putting Shraeye to L+1 just in case Mail-mi's hammer didn't work. I agree it would be unfair for Mail-mi to be required to cast the last vote on the wagon without knowing if the wagon target was loved.

[EFHW]

I mean, I think it would be pretty bastard if I have to hammer shraeye but he's actually loved so I don't know that my vote actually is the hammer.

this?

I think he means it would be unfair to be told he could hammer Shraeye to satisfy his wincon and then have Shraeye turn out to be loved, so his supposed hammer wasn't a hammer.

PPE Space said the same

[mail-mi]

I mean, I think it would be pretty bastard if I have to hammer shraeye but he's actually loved so I don't know that my vote actually is the hammer.

this?

That's a poorly-phrased hypothetical. I was saying it would be bastared if shraeye was loved, since one of my requirements for winning is to hammer him.

PPE: 2 people clarifying for me as well lol

[Swowl]

ahhh evidently I was like the ONLY one not to piece that together sorry

[EFHW]

I love how the three of us each found different ways to express this convoluted thought.

[ashersky]

Day 3 Final Vote Count:

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (5): faust, EFHW, 2.7, Space, mail-mi


Not Voting (2): shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[skip wooznum]

Laaaaaaaaaame

[ashersky]

Is it possible to rediscover our most civilized selves once they've been lost to battle and pain?  Some might say we gave up our humanity when we decided eradicating one lifeform was a cost worth paying to save ours.  How do we come back from that?

Then again, I look around on any given day and I see people helping people, only to be helpful.  They expect nothing in return because as of yet, there is nothing to give.

And yet, others scheme and plan, I hear.  There will always be the opportunists, the wicked, the ones to beware.

—Diary Entry, sunset during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


shraeye was lynched.  They were the Last Princess, the Revenge Seeker. They were Espheni.

[ashersky]

Night begins now.  Deadlines are hard and do not shift for VLA announcements as a rule, applied for all players equally.

Night actions are due in 24 hours.

[ashersky]

The mornings without screams or whimpers, that is still the most disconcerting thing about living after the war.  The nights were silent except for the crunch of metallic feet, the whiz of bullets, and the booms of explosions.  But mornings always brought the realization of further loss and pain.  Some would scream their sadness, other just whimper it away.

As we learn to become human again, we must accept that some times, there is no loss to mourn.  At least, that is what we can all hope.

--Diary Entry, sunrise during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni

WestCoastDidds has been revived!

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.0:

Not Voting (2): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, WCD, faust, EFHW, DatSwan, uncleeurope, skip, mail-mi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hooray! I’ve missed you all!

[mail-mi]

Hooray! I’ve missed you all!

Welcome back!

[mail-mi]

Also vote: efhw

[skip wooznum]

I was in the petition qt last night. Nobody else spoke. I was interested to note that the qt was named session 4. I would have thought it should be session 3.

Also mail-mi, wanna fullclaim?

Also didds, any idea how you're alive again?

[mail-mi]

I was in the petition qt last night. Nobody else spoke. I was interested to note that the qt was named session 4. I would have thought it should be session 3.

Also mail-mi, wanna fullclaim?

Nope, not yet. Though due to the number of survivors I think there's only one scum left, and it's yellow, so let's find them and win.

[skip wooznum]

Oh people should maybe be careful with votes because 3!player!scumteam+survivor=lylo. I don't know how likely that is, but it's a possibility.

[skip wooznum]

Oh people should maybe be careful with votes because 3!player!scumteam+survivor=lylo. I don't know how likely that is, but it's a possibility.

Although that would mean yesterday was 4 town, 3 mafia, 1 sk, and 1 survivor. So probably not. But maybe.

[skip wooznum]

I'm assuming shraeye was sk. His name was revenge seeker and he was espheni, so survivor seems unlikely.

[2.71828.....]

All right, let's go.

Sorry for the inactivity yesterday, it seemed like things were just spinning in circles a bit and I felt that shraeye just needed to be lynched.

I will do more today. First off, WCD!

[2.71828.....]

WCD, I don't know if we need a full claim or anything, but did you "revive" because of your role or someone else's do you think?

[2.71828.....]

And I guess the other big thing is no NK.

We get WCD back and don't lose anyone. After a purple (SK?) flip

[2.71828.....]

MiX was shot and killed during the night.  He was Shaq, the Général.  He was Volm.
LaLight was killed during the night.  He was Matt Mason, the Little Prince. He was Human.

WCD was shot and killed during the night. She was 西海岸ディッズ, a Dornian.
cayvie was killed during the night. She was Isabella, a Delusional Humanist. She was Human.

WestCoastDidds has been revived!

So....
Shot and killed+killed
Shot and killed+killed
Revived

Cayvie claims that they did the "shoot and killing", and then if shraeye actually did the "killing" then I still think that it seems like something blocked/doc'ed/stopped a NK

[2.71828.....]

I meant to say if cayvie's shot+kill is actually factional.

Then I would agree with mail-mi that it seems we are looking for orange scum whose kill got stopped somehow last night

[Uncleeurope]

If we had a town who threw up an IC on death, as well as a town that can revive themselves, then scum start way behind.

Definitely reason to still suspect Didds.

Or it’s reason to suspect a larger scum team, or that there are actually two scum teams, and we just haven’t found one of them yet.

Also, one of these days people will trust me on the EFHW business.

Also also, what was with the mail-mi pile-on after shraeye’s lynch? That weirded me out.

And the primary culprit was Skip.

[skip wooznum]

What session were you part of in the petition qt? 2?

[Uncleeurope]

1

[Uncleeurope]

The biggest thing I want is info from Didds is info on what the dead said.

[faust]

I was in the petition qt last night. Nobody else spoke. I was interested to note that the qt was named session 4. I would have thought it should be session 3.

Also mail-mi, wanna fullclaim?

Nope, not yet. Though due to the number of survivors I think there's only one scum left, and it's yellow, so let's find them and win.

Well, noone died last night, and guess who wasn't around last Night?

Vote: Didds

[faust]

But also unvote

[faust]

I tentatively think that a massclaim would be good. At least it's worth discussing.

[skip wooznum]

I tentatively think that a massclaim would be good. At least it's worth discussing.

I'm down. Which session were you in?

[faust]

I tentatively think that a massclaim would be good. At least it's worth discussing.

I'm down. Which session were you in?

What sessions are we talking about?

[skip wooznum]

I tentatively think that a massclaim would be good. At least it's worth discussing.

I'm down. Which session were you in?

What sessions are we talking about?

In the petition qt. If there was one each night, the one last night should have been session 3. But it was session 4.

[faust]

I tentatively think that a massclaim would be good. At least it's worth discussing.

I'm down. Which session were you in?

What sessions are we talking about?

In the petition qt. If there was one each night, the one last night should have been session 3. But it was session 4.

Ah. I don't want to be quoting without asking.

[skip wooznum]

I tentatively think that a massclaim would be good. At least it's worth discussing.

I'm down. Which session were you in?

What sessions are we talking about?

In the petition qt. If there was one each night, the one last night should have been session 3. But it was session 4.

Ah. I don't want to be quoting without asking.

Oh. My bad.

[faust]

Oh. My bad.

We were session number 14. Maybe the flavor for the group is different? But ash did not seem to want me to mention the name our group had.

[faust]

Okay... I'm not sure about a massclaim, but we for sure are going to need full claims from mail-mi and Didds.

[faust]

Also mail-mi, wanna fullclaim?

Nope, not yet.
[/quote]
Here's a little incentive: vote: mail-mi

[EFHW]

Also vote: efhw

This is becoming tiresome.  vote: mail-mi

[Uncleeurope]

Also vote: efhw

This is becoming tiresome.  vote: mail-mi

I don’t understand.

[SpaceAnemone]

If we had a town who threw up an IC on death, as well as a town that can revive themselves, then scum start way behind.

Definitely reason to still suspect Didds.

Or it’s reason to suspect a larger scum team, or that there are actually two scum teams, and we just haven’t found one of them yet.

Also, one of these days people will trust me on the EFHW business.

Also also, what was with the mail-mi pile-on after shraeye’s lynch? That weirded me out.

And the primary culprit was Skip.

Pretty sure I was arguing to switch everything to Mail-mi at the end after we'd reached L+1 on Shraeye just in case Shraeye was lynchproof, since without feedback on the lynch from the mod, it seemed prudent to try to cover all our bases before deadline hit.

Also, mail-mi is a claimed non-town with some kind of hidden agenda, isn't he?

[SpaceAnemone]

So, who targetted me last night? I got a good thing and a bad thing, and it would be good to know which is which. Also, still being alive is a nice bonus :-)

[Uncleeurope]

If we had a town who threw up an IC on death, as well as a town that can revive themselves, then scum start way behind.

Definitely reason to still suspect Didds.

Or it’s reason to suspect a larger scum team, or that there are actually two scum teams, and we just haven’t found one of them yet.

Also, one of these days people will trust me on the EFHW business.

Also also, what was with the mail-mi pile-on after shraeye’s lynch? That weirded me out.

And the primary culprit was Skip.

Pretty sure I was arguing to switch everything to Mail-mi at the end after we'd reached L+1 on Shraeye just in case Shraeye was lynchproof, since without feedback on the lynch from the mod, it seemed prudent to try to cover all our bases before deadline hit.

Also, mail-mi is a claimed non-town with some kind of hidden agenda, isn't he?

The agenda is only mildly hidden, since it appears to me that killing Shraeye was the majority of it.

That being said, @mail-mi, can you lose still?

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning!

Space, I had something to do with that.

As EFHW speculated after I died, Dornians have revival capabilities. I know how I was revived, and I knew it had the potential to happen. If I hadn’t needed it, someone else could have been revived. I hinted at such when I was tussling with Galz when I said the lynching me would be pointless.

I flipped maroon because when I died, my win condition had not been set. It was set when I died.... now, I win when my death has been avenged.  And since I was shot and killed, I’m assuming that means when we lynch scum. I guess it could be a serial killer. So, uh...I guess for hooray for being NKed because it means I win with town. If Shraeye was the one who killed me, then I’m already avenged. But I won’t know until it’s over.

[faust]

I flipped maroon because when I died, my win condition had not been set. It was set when I died....

So... what would have been your win condition if you hadn't died by the end of the game?

[faust]

Space, I had something to do with that.

Did you do the good thing and the bad thing, or just the good thing, or just the bad thing?

[WestCoastDidds]

I flipped maroon because when I died, my win condition had not been set. It was set when I died....

So... what would have been your win condition if you hadn't died by the end of the game?

Like I said at the start, there were lots of moving parts. There were 4 different scenarios that could have set my wincon that mostly hinged on when/if/how I died

[faust]

I flipped maroon because when I died, my win condition had not been set. It was set when I died....

So... what would have been your win condition if you hadn't died by the end of the game?

Like I said at the start, there were lots of moving parts. There were 4 different scenarios that could have set my wincon that mostly hinged on when/if/how I died

Yes, well, please go on. What were they?

[WestCoastDidds]

Space, I had something to do with that.

Did you do the good thing and the bad thing, or just the good thing, or just the bad thing?

I had something to do with the thing that will help Space with aliens, which is good for her.

[WestCoastDidds]

I flipped maroon because when I died, my win condition had not been set. It was set when I died....

So... what would have been your win condition if you hadn't died by the end of the game?

Like I said at the start, there were lots of moving parts. There were 4 different scenarios that could have set my wincon that mostly hinged on when/if/how I died

Yes, well, please go on. What were they?

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

[faust]

Here's how I see things:

We probably have another member of the Humanists out there. We have currently no evidence of a third faction with killing capabilities.

We have one non-town alien, and another non-town (mail-mi) who is by shraeye's account also probably an alien.

Seems like we could just let them fight it out.

[WestCoastDidds]

My first best guess for killerz is Eddie or EFHW

[faust]

Vote: No Lynch

[mail-mi]

If we had a town who threw up an IC on death, as well as a town that can revive themselves, then scum start way behind.

Definitely reason to still suspect Didds.

Or it’s reason to suspect a larger scum team, or that there are actually two scum teams, and we just haven’t found one of them yet.

Also, one of these days people will trust me on the EFHW business.

Also also, what was with the mail-mi pile-on after shraeye’s lynch? That weirded me out.

And the primary culprit was Skip.

Pretty sure I was arguing to switch everything to Mail-mi at the end after we'd reached L+1 on Shraeye just in case Shraeye was lynchproof, since without feedback on the lynch from the mod, it seemed prudent to try to cover all our bases before deadline hit.

Also, mail-mi is a claimed non-town with some kind of hidden agenda, isn't he?

The agenda is only mildly hidden, since it appears to me that killing Shraeye was the majority of it.

That being said, @mail-mi, can you lose still?

Yes, now I need to survive to the end of the game.

[Uncleeurope]

Here's how I see things:

We probably have another member of the Humanists out there. We have currently no evidence of a third faction with killing capabilities.

We have one non-town alien, and another non-town (mail-mi) who is by shraeye's account also probably an alien.

Seems like we could just let them fight it out.

Who has killed who each night?

[Uncleeurope]

My first best guess for killerz is Eddie or EFHW

We have a similar list. Only a few minor difference.

[faust]

Here's how I see things:

We probably have another member of the Humanists out there. We have currently no evidence of a third faction with killing capabilities.

We have one non-town alien, and another non-town (mail-mi) who is by shraeye's account also probably an alien.

Seems like we could just let them fight it out.

Who has killed who each night?

My working theory is that the Humanists have killed the people who were shot, and shraeye killed the others.

[mail-mi]

Hey I just started a new job, so my availability is gonna be lower. Just letting y'all know

[faust]

Hey I just started a new job, so my availability is gonna be lower. Just letting y'all know

You could help us out by claiming right now.

[faust]

Vote: mail-mi

No lynch is good, but lynching uncooperative non-town is gooder.

[mail-mi]

Hey I just started a new job, so my availability is gonna be lower. Just letting y'all know

You could help us out by claiming right now.

Let me claim at lunchtime, if you please.

[EFHW]

Also vote: efhw

This is becoming tiresome.  vote: mail-mi

He keeps throwing shade on me for no reason. Kind of like you, but scummier.

I don’t understand.

[EFHW]

Also vote: efhw

This is becoming tiresome.  vote: mail-mi

I don’t understand.

Quotefail. He keeps throwing shade on me for no reason. Kind of like you, but scummier.

[EFHW]

Space, I had something to do with that.

Did you do the good thing and the bad thing, or just the good thing, or just the bad thing?

I had something to do with the thing that will help Space with aliens, which is good for her.

Have you said what that is?

[EFHW]

FYI: I blocked mail-mi last night. Maybe that's the reason there was no nk.

[WestCoastDidds]

Space, I had something to do with that.

Did you do the good thing and the bad thing, or just the good thing, or just the bad thing?

I had something to do with the thing that will help Space with aliens, which is good for her.

Have you said what that is?

I have not. I will let Space say or no.

[skip wooznum]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

[skip wooznum]

Also in spirit I'm voting mail-mi.

[WestCoastDidds]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

1. It was not unconditional, and it was one-shot. I need to check on some things before I can say more about the resurrection conditions. But the gist of it is that I was shot and killed N2, and then resurrected N3. If Shraeye had been able to skip a night, my guess is that I'd have not come back today.

2. My specific, concrete goal is to see the person who killed me dead. I don't have any ability to kill other than participating in a lynch. I was not and will not be told who it was, even once they have been killed.  I have some hope that Shraeye killed me, but I am going to scum hunt in case it was someone else.

[skip wooznum]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

1. It was not unconditional, and it was one-shot. I need to check on some things before I can say more about the resurrection conditions. But the gist of it is that I was shot and killed N2, and then resurrected N3. If Shraeye had been able to skip a night, my guess is that I'd have not come back today.

2. My specific, concrete goal is to see the person who killed me dead. I don't have any ability to kill other than participating in a lynch. I was not and will not be told who it was, even once they have been killed.  I have some hope that Shraeye killed me, but I am going to scum hunt in case it was someone else.

So you might have already won?

[WestCoastDidds]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

1. It was not unconditional, and it was one-shot. I need to check on some things before I can say more about the resurrection conditions. But the gist of it is that I was shot and killed N2, and then resurrected N3. If Shraeye had been able to skip a night, my guess is that I'd have not come back today.

2. My specific, concrete goal is to see the person who killed me dead. I don't have any ability to kill other than participating in a lynch. I was not and will not be told who it was, even once they have been killed.  I have some hope that Shraeye killed me, but I am going to scum hunt in case it was someone else.

So you might have already won?

As far as I know, that is correct. I don't have to be alive when it is all over, but my killer can't be alive longer than I am.

It's a pretty weak position to be in. What I have going for me is that you all have seen my flip, you KNOW that I am not scum.  I want to lynch scum, it is my only goal.

[faust]

What I have going for me is that you all have seen my flip, you KNOW that I am not scum.  I want to lynch scum, it is my only goal.

This is evidently not true. You flipped without alignment reveal, there is no reason to suspect you're non-scum other than believing what you say.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space, I had something to do with that.

Did you do the good thing and the bad thing, or just the good thing, or just the bad thing?

I had something to do with the thing that will help Space with aliens, which is good for her.

Have you said what that is?

I have not. I will let Space say or no.

It's a type of weapon, so not something I'd really expect someone scummy to hand to an IC.

[Swowl]

Space, I had something to do with that.

Did you do the good thing and the bad thing, or just the good thing, or just the bad thing?

I had something to do with the thing that will help Space with aliens, which is good for her.

Have you said what that is?

I have not. I will let Space say or no.

It's a type of weapon, so not something I'd really expect someone scummy to hand to an IC.

was that the "good thing" or the "bad thing"?

[Swowl]

FYI: I blocked mail-mi last night. Maybe that's the reason there was no nk.

this is the first block result you have claimed this game right? Just making sure I am not forgetting something.

[Swowl]

Here is a thought. Based on the assumptions that..
a) MailMi is truthful.
b) Cayvie/Galz were the faction that have been "shooting AND killing" (because cayvie's death was just "killed").
c) Shraeye was a form of Serial Killer and a combination of them + some other faction, were responsible for the "just killed" deaths.


Night 1:
- 2 deaths.
- Cayvie "shoot and kills" MiX.
- Shraeye "kills" LL.

Night 2:
- 2 deaths.
- Cayvie "shoot and kills" WCD.
- Shraeye "kills" Cayvie.

*** so to that point, if it is assumed that SK!Shraeye was the other killer, meaning MailMi is essentially truthful in having not shot yet, because cayvie was "killed", the "shoot and killer" had to of been the other party... in this assumption... Shraeye".

Night 3:
- 0 Deaths
- EFHW claims to of blocked MailMi, suggesting that could be the reason for no NK.

Counter Argument - EFHW is skum setting up MailMi.
Normally in a situation like this there is an inherent downside for the liar - normally it would be the best case scenario is we mislynch their target, then we learn they were lying, then we lynch them. However, if EFHW is skum, they would have no reason to believe that Mail-Mi does *not* have the ability to kill, nor would they have a reason to believe that Mail-Mi is lying about not shooting. So, they fake a result on Mail-Mi, and when Mail-Mi flips what they claimed to be (a hunter of sorts), it will never actually look bad for EFHW.

Vote: EFHW

Maybe it wasn't even shraeye. Maybe EFHW's faction was the previous "just kills" and then they thought this out and chose not to shoot last night in order to rid themselves of the another faction player that has the ability to kill.

[mail-mi]

I've got a minute, I am going to full claim my rolepowers.

My flavor name is simply The Hunter. My win condition is as you've been told.

I have a 1-shot Vig that I can use to hunt my target. I think shraeye's claimed "2 powers target me and I die" is a lie since my vig would kill him. I asked ash about it after shraeye claimed, and he said I would be able to kill the Last Princess with my shot. Since shraeye was already dead, I tried to shoot EFHW last night because either her or eddie is the last scum.

I also have a weakened flavor cop. Each night I can target a player and learn if they are the Last Princess or not. I learn no other information about the player.

I'm also 1-shot Bulletproof, and I am not informed if that shot is used up or not. That may be why we didn't have a kill last night, though I have no idea why scum would shoot at me from yesterday, so it's probably something else.

[mail-mi]

I think I'm with DatSwan here. I think EFHW is actually a scum roleblocker that's trying to set me up. Why me, I don't know. Probably cause I'm an easy mislynch since I'm not town.

[faust]

Counter Argument - EFHW is skum setting up MailMi.
Normally in a situation like this there is an inherent downside for the liar - normally it would be the best case scenario is we mislynch their target, then we learn they were lying, then we lynch them. However, if EFHW is skum, they would have no reason to believe that Mail-Mi does *not* have the ability to kill, nor would they have a reason to believe that Mail-Mi is lying about not shooting. So, they fake a result on Mail-Mi, and when Mail-Mi flips what they claimed to be (a hunter of sorts), it will never actually look bad for EFHW.

Vote: EFHW

Mhf. I would think that if EFHW was trying to set someone up, it wouldn't be the claimed Survivor that she could actually win with.

[faust]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

[faust]

EFHW should probably also fullclaim.

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

Human.

[faust]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

Human.

Of course you would say that. But most actual humans in this game have names.

[faust]

There are things that disturb me here....

unvote

Let's talk more tomorrow.

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

Human.

Of course you would say that. But most actual humans in this game have names.

You said it yourself.

[skip wooznum]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

1. It was not unconditional, and it was one-shot. I need to check on some things before I can say more about the resurrection conditions. But the gist of it is that I was shot and killed N2, and then resurrected N3. If Shraeye had been able to skip a night, my guess is that I'd have not come back today.

2. My specific, concrete goal is to see the person who killed me dead. I don't have any ability to kill other than participating in a lynch. I was not and will not be told who it was, even once they have been killed.  I have some hope that Shraeye killed me, but I am going to scum hunt in case it was someone else.

So you might have already won?

As far as I know, that is correct. I don't have to be alive when it is all over, but my killer can't be alive longer than I am.

It's a pretty weak position to be in. What I have going for me is that you all have seen my flip, you KNOW that I am not scum.  I want to lynch scum, it is my only goal.

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

[Swowl]

Counter Argument - EFHW is skum setting up MailMi.
Normally in a situation like this there is an inherent downside for the liar - normally it would be the best case scenario is we mislynch their target, then we learn they were lying, then we lynch them. However, if EFHW is skum, they would have no reason to believe that Mail-Mi does *not* have the ability to kill, nor would they have a reason to believe that Mail-Mi is lying about not shooting. So, they fake a result on Mail-Mi, and when Mail-Mi flips what they claimed to be (a hunter of sorts), it will never actually look bad for EFHW.

Vote: EFHW

Mhf. I would think that if EFHW was trying to set someone up, it wouldn't be the claimed Survivor that she could actually win with.

agree-a-souras-rex most the time on that one. but the credit factor and the "killing factor" kind of weigh in a little there no?

[Swowl]

I think I'm with DatSwan here. I think EFHW is actually a scum roleblocker that's trying to set me up. Why me, I don't know. Probably cause I'm an easy mislynch since I'm not town.

hold up. you shot at efoo yeah?

[Swowl]

I was in the petition qt last night. Nobody else spoke. I was interested to note that the qt was named session 4. I would have thought it should be session 3.

weird. should of been 3 people? or 4 people? I can't remember if the claim ended up being a third or a half of remaining.

[EFHW]

FYI: I blocked mail-mi last night. Maybe that's the reason there was no nk.

this is the first block result you have claimed this game right? Just making sure I am not forgetting something.

That's right.

[EFHW]

I'm Ben Mason. I have two powers but can only use one each night. I am a gunsmith and a roleblocker. N1 I gunsmithed Didds. I got a "no", but since there were so many redirections that night, I don't know who the "no" belongs to. N2 I gunsmithed Eddie and got a "no". Last night I roleblocked mail-mi because his claim didn't seem to match Shraeye's flip. His explanation today hasn't helped in that regard, either.

[mail-mi]

I think I'm with DatSwan here. I think EFHW is actually a scum roleblocker that's trying to set me up. Why me, I don't know. Probably cause I'm an easy mislynch since I'm not town.

hold up. you shot at efoo yeah?

Yes. I have a stronger scumread on her than I do on Eddie. However I voted for Eddie yesterday because EFHW already had a wagon and I didn't want to detract away from getting shraeye killed.

[EFHW]

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

This is a really good point.

Also, with so many choices for wincon, you would think one of them would be to be scum.

I also noticed that the first three scenarios are linked to specific alignments, but the fourth one isn't.

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.1:

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Datswan
mail-mi (1): EFHW

Not Voting (6): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, WCD, uncleeurope, skip, faust

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[WestCoastDidds]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

1. It was not unconditional, and it was one-shot. I need to check on some things before I can say more about the resurrection conditions. But the gist of it is that I was shot and killed N2, and then resurrected N3. If Shraeye had been able to skip a night, my guess is that I'd have not come back today.

2. My specific, concrete goal is to see the person who killed me dead. I don't have any ability to kill other than participating in a lynch. I was not and will not be told who it was, even once they have been killed.  I have some hope that Shraeye killed me, but I am going to scum hunt in case it was someone else.

So you might have already won?

As far as I know, that is correct. I don't have to be alive when it is all over, but my killer can't be alive longer than I am.

It's a pretty weak position to be in. What I have going for me is that you all have seen my flip, you KNOW that I am not scum.  I want to lynch scum, it is my only goal.

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

I am not at all sure of what will happen, but I’ve explained it as I understand it. Part of the confusion here with things not making sense is that I’m stepping around the part that I can’t share (which I alluded to earlier). My explanation was a simplification of the intents and purposes of my role. The most important part right now is that I’m here to help town. Space’s gift speaks to that, as does my desire to lynch those who shoot and kill.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

This is a really good point.

Also, with so many choices for wincon, you would think one of them would be to be scum.

I also noticed that the first three scenarios are linked to specific alignments, but the fourth one isn't.

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

Hmmm...it feels like this is being understood fatherly narrowly in light of what has happened, not what could have.  If I had been lynched by town, that person would have been who I needed to avenge...so, I see needing to kill a townsperson as a fairly scummy alignment.

Also, on the third one, it was being on three wagons that killed folks of the same alignment that is become that alignment. I was paraphrasing when I recounted, and wasn’t terribly careful with my language since it didn’t happen. So, if I had help lynched three scum, I’d be scum.

[Swowl]

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

This is a really good point.

Also, with so many choices for wincon, you would think one of them would be to be scum.

I also noticed that the first three scenarios are linked to specific alignments, but the fourth one isn't.

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

I do not comprehend any of the confusion here (minus the part that didds just updated). Like almost to a misleading point.

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

Secondly - Given the amount of flipped factions at this point, how is it not conceivable that "one of the win cons is linked to skum". Skum faction A kills her, she comes back to life and she inherently has to help skum faction B/C/D/E/F/however many the shit there are to win. That is a skum based win con. Albeit it is more survivor, but it is skum-survivor not town-survivor.

Lastly - I do not get the confusion on the win cons being linked.
1. They have no win con, and then turn into Town win con
2. They have no win con, they go day 5 with nothing happening and they gain survivor wincon.
3. They have no win con, they fullfil the lynch req, they gain town (or whatever in hindsight) wincon.
4. They have no win con, they get dead, and their win con is completely randomized based on who killed/lynched them.

They all start with having no win con, then based on events, the win con is chosen. 2 and 4 seem to be fairly directly linked to survivor, and 1 and 3 (as we don't even know if there is a skum faction of 3) seems likely to be linked to town.
Why is there a focus on #4 from you here efoo?

[Swowl]

I'm Ben Mason. I have two powers but can only use one each night. I am a gunsmith and a roleblocker. N1 I gunsmithed Didds. I got a "no", but since there were so many redirections that night, I don't know who the "no" belongs to. N2 I gunsmithed Eddie and got a "no". Last night I roleblocked mail-mi because his claim didn't seem to match Shraeye's flip. His explanation today hasn't helped in that regard, either.

well there goes the freekin eddie/efhw theory.

[Swowl]

I'm Ben Mason. I have two powers but can only use one each night. I am a gunsmith and a roleblocker. N1 I gunsmithed Didds. I got a "no", but since there were so many redirections that night, I don't know who the "no" belongs to. N2 I gunsmithed Eddie and got a "no". Last night I roleblocked mail-mi because his claim didn't seem to match Shraeye's flip. His explanation today hasn't helped in that regard, either.

well faust targeted WCD on N1 and ended up with a QT with Shraeye. So likely your result was either on Shraeye or on WCD. doesn't really help all that much since the whole "killed" vs "shot and killed" thing. But yeah.

[Swowl]

So either...

1) MailMi survivor/whatever, EFHW skum: MailMi uses 1 shot vig on EFHW. Supposedly, assuming here, with a skum read. They have now hit their mark, they need game to end, they shoot at skum. EFHW RBs MailMi (or bp, or something, or whatever).

2) MailMi skum, EFHW town/whatever: MailMi lied. They shoot at EFHW. EFHW blocks MailMi.

3) MailMi survivor/whatever, EFHW town/whatever: Mailmi uses shot on EFHW, EFHW blocks MailMi.


All of those scenarios suck.

Could it possibly be time to consider a mass claim?

[skip wooznum]

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

mail-mi has at least claimed that he needs to live till the end in order to win, like a survivor. So he hasn't won yet.

[Swowl]

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

mail-mi has at least claimed that he needs to live till the end in order to win, like a survivor. So he hasn't won yet.

fair enough. I just assumed it was the same with Didds. But to your point, you are correct, they did not specify that.

[skip wooznum]

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

mail-mi has at least claimed that he needs to live till the end in order to win, like a survivor. So he hasn't won yet.

fair enough. I just assumed it was the same with Didds. But to your point, you are correct, they did not specify that.

Not only did she not specify it, she in fact specified the opposite; namely that she would continue to play after having won. Later she walked it back a little.

[faust]

So 2 points:

- I thought all deaths would be accounted for. However, I forgot that shraeye could not take any night actions N1. So we have one unexplained kill there.
- Looking at mail-mi's claimed role... it doesn't make sense. He can't win with shraeye obviously. If he's alien, he can't win with the humanists. So effectively, without another team, he'd be locked into winning with town... but then he might as well be town.

Long story short - I think there is still a red team out there. We need to massclaim. Here is the order:

Eddie
DatSwan
e
mail-mi claims what he knows about skip
Didds claims the rest of her role
skip

[Swowl]

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

mail-mi has at least claimed that he needs to live till the end in order to win, like a survivor. So he hasn't won yet.

fair enough. I just assumed it was the same with Didds. But to your point, you are correct, they did not specify that.

Not only did she not specify it, she in fact specified the opposite; namely that she would continue to play after having won. Later she walked it back a little.

well that is kind of my point. her specifying that she would continue to play and mail mi specifying their win con in the way they did led me to believe they were similar.

[Swowl]

So 2 points:

- I thought all deaths would be accounted for. However, I forgot that shraeye could not take any night actions N1. So we have one unexplained kill there.
- Looking at mail-mi's claimed role... it doesn't make sense. He can't win with shraeye obviously. If he's alien, he can't win with the humanists. So effectively, without another team, he'd be locked into winning with town... but then he might as well be town.

Long story short - I think there is still a red team out there. We need to massclaim. Here is the order:

Eddie
DatSwan
e
mail-mi claims what he knows about skip
Didds claims the rest of her role
skip

I 100% missed that first part. What was the cause of Shraeye and no night actions on N1? was that you and I just totally missed it?

[Swowl]

So 2 points:

- I thought all deaths would be accounted for. However, I forgot that shraeye could not take any night actions N1. So we have one unexplained kill there.
- Looking at mail-mi's claimed role... it doesn't make sense. He can't win with shraeye obviously. If he's alien, he can't win with the humanists. So effectively, without another team, he'd be locked into winning with town... but then he might as well be town.

Long story short - I think there is still a red team out there. We need to massclaim. Here is the order:

Eddie
DatSwan
e
mail-mi claims what he knows about skip
Didds claims the rest of her role
skip

also... should we not have skip after E!? just based on the info that will be revealed in between I mean. Or at a minimum, have Skip be before MailMi?

[faust]

So 2 points:

- I thought all deaths would be accounted for. However, I forgot that shraeye could not take any night actions N1. So we have one unexplained kill there.
- Looking at mail-mi's claimed role... it doesn't make sense. He can't win with shraeye obviously. If he's alien, he can't win with the humanists. So effectively, without another team, he'd be locked into winning with town... but then he might as well be town.

Long story short - I think there is still a red team out there. We need to massclaim. Here is the order:

Eddie
DatSwan
e
mail-mi claims what he knows about skip
Didds claims the rest of her role
skip

I 100% missed that first part. What was the cause of Shraeye and no night actions on N1? was that you and I just totally missed it?

Yes.

[Swowl]

So 2 points:

- I thought all deaths would be accounted for. However, I forgot that shraeye could not take any night actions N1. So we have one unexplained kill there.
- Looking at mail-mi's claimed role... it doesn't make sense. He can't win with shraeye obviously. If he's alien, he can't win with the humanists. So effectively, without another team, he'd be locked into winning with town... but then he might as well be town.

Long story short - I think there is still a red team out there. We need to massclaim. Here is the order:

Eddie
DatSwan
e
mail-mi claims what he knows about skip
Didds claims the rest of her role
skip

also... should we not have skip after E!? just based on the info that will be revealed in between I mean. Or at a minimum, have Skip be before MailMi?

like mailmi got it from skip right? so skip claiming prior to mailmi confirming seems to make sense.

[faust]

@EFHW: Can you be more precise about the Gunsmith part of your role? What exactly do you check for?

[Swowl]

So 2 points:

- I thought all deaths would be accounted for. However, I forgot that shraeye could not take any night actions N1. So we have one unexplained kill there.
- Looking at mail-mi's claimed role... it doesn't make sense. He can't win with shraeye obviously. If he's alien, he can't win with the humanists. So effectively, without another team, he'd be locked into winning with town... but then he might as well be town.

Long story short - I think there is still a red team out there. We need to massclaim. Here is the order:

Eddie
DatSwan
e
mail-mi claims what he knows about skip
Didds claims the rest of her role
skip

I 100% missed that first part. What was the cause of Shraeye and no night actions on N1? was that you and I just totally missed it?

Yes.

can you give me a general day (like yesterday late) and I will go find it. please.

[2.71828.....]

I feel like faust is asking all the right questions.

Definitely in favor of a mass claim and am fine with faust's order

[2.71828.....]

Looking back at all the EFHW/mail-mi stuff today. Not sure which side I take here. I do feel as though we should probably lynch one of them.

[EFHW]

@EFHW: Can you be more precise about the Gunsmith part of your role? What exactly do you check for?

If the person has a gun.

[EFHW]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

[EFHW]

@DatSwan,  looking for inconsistencies. ashersky would definitely have been specific about a matter of alignment. Yet the same scenario she is claiming is the one without an alignment.

[faust]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

[Swowl]

@DatSwan,  looking for inconsistencies. ashersky would definitely have been specific about a matter of alignment. Yet the same scenario she is claiming is the one without an alignment.

I mean... no alignment + win con changes is just "survivor with non-fixed win con". I don't put that anywhere outside Ash's depth.

[Swowl]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

same same right? like exactly one command input to the mod?

[Swowl]

also since they fliped hunter or whatever and purple not super crazy to assume they had a SM modifier.

[Swowl]

also since they fliped hunter or whatever and purple not super crazy to assume they had a SM modifier.

let me rephrase... assuming it would be a little out there... to consider it would not be insane.

[EFHW]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

Ok, but that means he made a weirdly specific claim that was very likely to be contradicted

[Swowl]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

Ok, but that means he made a weirdly specific claim that was very likely to be contradicted

are you referring to his "2 actions kill me" bit?
BC if it was true... and he saw green text on faust... and he was alive... he would kind of have a certainty that he was only targeted by one action. cuz alive.

[EFHW]

@DatSwan,  looking for inconsistencies. ashersky would definitely have been specific about a matter of alignment. Yet the same scenario she is claiming is the one without an alignment.

I mean... no alignment + win con changes is just "survivor with non-fixed win con". I don't put that anywhere outside Ash's depth.

You are assuming things that are probably right but aren't stated. The alignment is stated for the other 3.

[EFHW]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

Ok, but that means he made a weirdly specific claim that was very likely to be contradicted

are you referring to his "2 actions kill me" bit?
BC if it was true... and he saw green text on faust... and he was alive... he would kind of have a certainty that he was only targeted by one action. cuz alive.

He said he was immune to actions, except that 2 would kill him.

[faust]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

same same right? like exactly one command input to the mod?

Yes.

[faust]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

Ok, but that means he made a weirdly specific claim that was very likely to be contradicted

Yes. I'm not sure why you bring this up. It seems to be to discredit the idea that there is another killing faction out there. But then you don't offer up an alternative explanation.

[Swowl]

Shraeye said actions couldn't affect him.  That could have been a lie,  but why risk it? So he could be responsible for an N1 kill.

In any cas, we have two players with questionable claims. Agree mass claim is in order.

No because as said, the very same action that got him in a QT with me also blocked him. If it didn't affect him, he would not have ended up in the QT.

Ok, but that means he made a weirdly specific claim that was very likely to be contradicted

are you referring to his "2 actions kill me" bit?
BC if it was true... and he saw green text on faust... and he was alive... he would kind of have a certainty that he was only targeted by one action. cuz alive.

He said he was immune to actions, except that 2 would kill him.

ok yeah assuming truth in my scenario, then that does not check out you right.

[faust]

I would like to hear more about EFHW's thought process for Roleblocking mail-mi.

[Uncleeurope]

Are we still wanting me to claim here?

Does it change anyone’s mind that my power has ~0 impact on helping town win if Scum know it’s a thing? It requires scum to make certain choices, choices that they are less likely to make if they know my power.

Does it also change anyone’s mind that my role is confirmable once I use it?

As in, it is announced, and obvious?

[faust]

Are we still wanting me to claim here?

Does it change anyone’s mind that my power has ~0 impact on helping town win if Scum know it’s a thing? It requires scum to make certain choices, choices that they are less likely to make if they know my power.

Does it also change anyone’s mind that my role is confirmable once I use it?

As in, it is announced, and obvious?

Please claim.

[Uncleeurope]

Fine.

Just know that I am annoyed that my role was only helpful in niche circumstances, and now those are gone.

Tom Mason.

I’m your president, Y’all.

- Once per game I can reset the votes to everyone not voting, but only if I am voting on the largest wagon. And the wagon has to be larger than L-2.

- Once per game I can toggle on the ability to cancel a lynch, but the lynch will only be canceled if I am not voting for the person who would have died when it happens. After the cancelation occurs, everyone only gets 1 vote for the rest of the day, and then at the end of the day whoever has the most votes is lynched, redaress of the required amount of votes.

The power is expended only if the power is turned on when someone would be lynched. So I can turn it off before that happens if I change my mind.

The only use for this, as far as I was able to see, was to use the dissolving ability right as deadline to force a no-lynch, or I can trick scum into quick hammering someone and have them not die, which would let us kill them.

So now that’s not a thing.

My powers suck.

[faust]

Can you cancel your own lynch?

[Uncleeurope]

Can you cancel your own lynch?

Yup, although there is nothing stopping all players from voting for me immediately after.

Just know I plan to use those abilities to save my own life if it comes to that today.

It’s futile to try in most cases, but what else can I do?

[faust]

I’m writing down EFHW’s evilness and Pubby’s Towny-ness in my handy dandy notebook.

Why didn't you use your powers to save pubby?

[faust]

Vote: Eddie

Let's get the confirming over with.

[Uncleeurope]

I’m writing down EFHW’s evilness and Pubby’s Towny-ness in my handy dandy notebook.

Why didn't you use your powers to save pubby?

Because you all would just kill him again, or at least I had to assume that would be the case. I saw the only value in my role was getting to the final stages of the game.

Better question, why wouldn’t I save pubby as scum? I definitely would have had reason to.

[faust]

- Once per game I can reset the votes to everyone not voting, but only if I am voting on the largest wagon. And the wagon has to be larger than L-2.

Is "larger than L-2" in any way functionally different form "L-1"?

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Eddie

Let's get the confirming over with.

I mean, sure, but why would I lie.

Which one do you want me to use? Because it impacts how I have to vote here.

[faust]

Vote: Eddie

Let's get the confirming over with.

I mean, sure, but why would I lie.

Which one do you want me to use? Because it impacts how I have to vote here.

You choose.

[Uncleeurope]

- Once per game I can reset the votes to everyone not voting, but only if I am voting on the largest wagon. And the wagon has to be larger than L-2.

Is "larger than L-2" in any way functionally different form "L-1"?

I have no idea, I just assumed it was L-1 with wording to help with Hated/Loved or something weird.

I dunno what it means.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Eddie

Let's get the confirming over with.

I mean, sure, but why would I lie.

Which one do you want me to use? Because it impacts how I have to vote here.

You choose.

Oh, yay, I have some player agency here.

How exciting.

Thank you, mister Faust, sir.

[Uncleeurope]

- Once per game I can reset the votes to everyone not voting, but only if I am voting on the largest wagon. And the wagon has to be larger than L-2.

Is "larger than L-2" in any way functionally different form "L-1"?

I have no idea, I just assumed it was L-1 with wording to help with Hated/Loved or something weird.

I dunno what it means.

Although I wonder if it would work after someone hammered (L-0)

I dunno.

[faust]

Although I wonder if it would work after someone hammered (L-0)

I dunno.

You didn't think about it until now?

[EFHW]

I would like to hear more about EFHW's thought process for Roleblocking mail-mi.

Nothing very profound. He was claiming to be Shraeye's hunter. So either he was telling the truth and had a killing power with non-town motivation, or he was scum with a killing power with non-town motivation.

[WestCoastDidds]

Long story short - I think there is still a red team out there. We need to massclaim. Here is the order:

Eddie
DatSwan
e
mail-mi claims what he knows about skip
Didds claims the rest of her role
skip

Okay...although timing-wise id put e before Swan since e is likely awake now and available for the next several hours, and Swan isn’t typically around for several more hours yet, and when he is e will be heading to what we sleep he gets with a tiny baby e in the house.

[faust]

I would like to hear more about EFHW's thought process for Roleblocking mail-mi.

Nothing very profound. He was claiming to be Shraeye's hunter. So either he was telling the truth and had a killing power with non-town motivation, or he was scum with a killing power with non-town motivation.

Did you think it plausible that he wasn't telling the truth?

[skip wooznum]

Are we voting eddie? vote: eddie

[Uncleeurope]

Although I wonder if it would work after someone hammered (L-0)

I dunno.

You didn't think about it until now?

I mean, I thought about it.

I also thought that it didn’t matter that much.

[mail-mi]

Eddie's claim is NAI. doesn't change my scumread on him at all (doesn't make it more scummy or less).

[SpaceAnemone]

- Once per game I can toggle on the ability to cancel a lynch, but the lynch will only be canceled if I am not voting for the person who would have died when it happens. After the cancelation occurs, everyone only gets 1 vote for the rest of the day, and then at the end of the day whoever has the most votes is lynched, redaress of the required amount of votes.

@faust, does the "everyone only gets 1 vote for the rest of the day" part here not give us reason to pause?

I would prefer to proceed with the claims, get other stuff out in the open, and give people a chance to vote normally before pushing Eddie to prove this. After all, it's a potentially high cost to town to prove his role does as he claims: no wagon analysis for the rest of this game-day, no need for majority voting, probably forcing the day to end at the deadline itself, where most of us in Europe will be asleep... I'm not so comfortable with that.

[faust]

- Once per game I can toggle on the ability to cancel a lynch, but the lynch will only be canceled if I am not voting for the person who would have died when it happens. After the cancelation occurs, everyone only gets 1 vote for the rest of the day, and then at the end of the day whoever has the most votes is lynched, redaress of the required amount of votes.

@faust, does the "everyone only gets 1 vote for the rest of the day" part here not give us reason to pause?

I would prefer to proceed with the claims, get other stuff out in the open, and give people a chance to vote normally before pushing Eddie to prove this. After all, it's a potentially high cost to town to prove his role does as he claims: no wagon analysis for the rest of this game-day, no need for majority voting, probably forcing the day to end at the deadline itself, where most of us in Europe will be asleep... I'm not so comfortable with that.

Eddie is free to prove his claim by using his other power, which doesn't change the voting rules. But I thought the change was kind of interesting and I wouldn't mind to see how it plays out.

No wagon analysis would be a blessing actually. People put too much stock in where people's votes were at any given time, and too little in what those people said and their behaviour around those votes. Not having tl;dr vote counts would entice people to actually reread.

[skip wooznum]

- Once per game I can toggle on the ability to cancel a lynch, but the lynch will only be canceled if I am not voting for the person who would have died when it happens. After the cancelation occurs, everyone only gets 1 vote for the rest of the day, and then at the end of the day whoever has the most votes is lynched, redaress of the required amount of votes.

@faust, does the "everyone only gets 1 vote for the rest of the day" part here not give us reason to pause?

I would prefer to proceed with the claims, get other stuff out in the open, and give people a chance to vote normally before pushing Eddie to prove this. After all, it's a potentially high cost to town to prove his role does as he claims: no wagon analysis for the rest of this game-day, no need for majority voting, probably forcing the day to end at the deadline itself, where most of us in Europe will be asleep... I'm not so comfortable with that.

He could just do his other power.

[EFHW]

I would like to hear more about EFHW's thought process for Roleblocking mail-mi.

Nothing very profound. He was claiming to be Shraeye's hunter. So either he was telling the truth and had a killing power with non-town motivation, or he was scum with a killing power with non-town motivation.

Did you think it plausible that he wasn't telling the truth?

Once Shraeye flipped, yes.

[Uncleeurope]

Also worth noting, if most people believe that I have the power, me having to prove it is a waste of time.

Especially because I could easily be either alignment with these powers.

But whatever.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also worth noting, if most people believe that I have the power, me having to prove it is a waste of time.

Especially because I could easily be either alignment with these powers.

But whatever.

Odd you say "either" alignment and not "any" alignment, given that we've seen yellow, purple and green flips, plus an uncoloured flip, and we have a hypothesized red team out there maybe.

Anyway, as you say, the utility of the powers is a little reduced now you've announced them, but that also means there's less of a cost associated with getting you to prove it's not something you made up as scum.

@mail-mi, you said the power is NAI, but how does that make you feel about Eddie? Like, do you think it's an invented fakeclaim from scum, a weird scum power, or a weird town power? Does that fact it's verifiable make you any less suspious about it being a fakeclaim?

[mail-mi]

Also worth noting, if most people believe that I have the power, me having to prove it is a waste of time.

Especially because I could easily be either alignment with these powers.

But whatever.

Odd you say "either" alignment and not "any" alignment, given that we've seen yellow, purple and green flips, plus an uncoloured flip, and we have a hypothesized red team out there maybe.

Anyway, as you say, the utility of the powers is a little reduced now you've announced them, but that also means there's less of a cost associated with getting you to prove it's not something you made up as scum.

@mail-mi, you said the power is NAI, but how does that make you feel about Eddie? Like, do you think it's an invented fakeclaim from scum, a weird scum power, or a weird town power? Does that fact it's verifiable make you any less suspious about it being a fakeclaim?

I think he's telling the truth because it is so easily verifiable. However it could be a scum power as easily as it could be a town power.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, EFHW says I don’t have a gun.

So either we are a team, or I am not a killer.

Which means I am a pretty bad lynch candidate here. (If you suspect me, then kill EFHW)

That being said, I can prove the less intrusive power once one more person votes for me.

[faust]

Also, EFHW says I don’t have a gun.

So either we are a team, or I am not a killer.

No? Only half of the nightkills have a "shot" flavor.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, EFHW says I don’t have a gun.

So either we are a team, or I am not a killer.

No? Only half of the nightkills have a "shot" flavor.

Oh, I assumed it was someone who detected kills? Is it only for flavor?

[EFHW]

Also, EFHW says I don’t have a gun.

So either we are a team, or I am not a killer.

No? Only half of the nightkills have a "shot" flavor.

Oh, I assumed it was someone who detected kills? Is it only for flavor?

It detects the ability to kill with a gun. I get a "no" if someone has some other method of killing.

[skip wooznum]

Also, EFHW says I don’t have a gun.

So either we are a team, or I am not a killer.

No? Only half of the nightkills have a "shot" flavor.

Oh, I assumed it was someone who detected kills? Is it only for flavor?

It detects the ability to kill with a gun. I get a "no" if someone has some other method of killing.

That's interesting. According to mafiascum wiki, gunsmith brings back the same result for mafia as it does for werewolf. But I guess efhw's role doesnt necessarily need to be a classical standard gunsmith.

[EFHW]

Also, EFHW says I don’t have a gun.

So either we are a team, or I am not a killer.

No? Only half of the nightkills have a "shot" flavor.

Oh, I assumed it was someone who detected kills? Is it only for flavor?

It detects the ability to kill with a gun. I get a "no" if someone has some other method of killing.

That's interesting. According to mafiascum wiki, gunsmith brings back the same result for mafia as it does for werewolf. But I guess efhw's role doesnt necessarily need to be a classical standard gunsmith.

I guess it is a little different, because the wiki says I get "yes" results for cops, but that wasn't in my pm. I put the term gunsmith on it, not ashersky. Thought it was a compact way to explain it.

[skip wooznum]

So..............

Swan? Care to claim?

[Swowl]

here. few minutes sorry.

[Swowl]

I am a Dorian. I am partners with WCD. I am the portion of their role they did not want to make public.

Win Cons:
- We started with no win cons, and the one potential choice of actually changing our alignment.
- All the powers that we were given were done so in a shared-factional usage, not independently. This is to say, I have all the same powers WCD does, but not "double".
- WCD's claim as to what our win con now is, is true.

Our now-Fixed Win Con:
- Was not defined until the time that WCD was killed.
- At that time, it became to have a living Dornia alive at the end of the game, but the killer of WCD must be dead.
- We do not have to kill them, they can die in any fashion.
- Absolutely confirmed that we will not be informed when/if this is done. (this is why I do not believe we will be removed from the game when/if the death condition of killer is met)

Clarifications - When WCD claimed, because of our win con now, obviously they did not want to tie me in. So in the spirit of full disclosure, I am going to elaborate on those things:
- WCD did not ofc "self revive". We had a one shot ability to revive another player. We were *hoping* to both live until late enough that we could bring back a player of the faction that most benefited us after a win con was set (i.e. we lynch town 3 times, turn town, revive town - hoping to create 3 IC's essentially, and have a Town win con). Obviously, when WCD was killed, our win con was set, and it made the most sense for me to revive her.
- WCD did not give the item that Space got to Space last night, I gave that item to Space last night. As WCD was dead.

So essentially, as WCD was killed, not lynched, we need to get rid of the people that have the ability to kill. Furthermore, when I say "the people" I preferably mean "all the people that can kill", as we will not be informed when we hit our target. So our dream wincon is essentially to have Town just win outright.

If there is any suspicion at all on this, I will be happy to go back and pull the fact we made sure to be on the same wagon until WCD was lynched as well as the multiple breadcrumbs that were left to substantiate this claim in case we ever had to use it as defense of a lynch or something.

E's turn.

[Swowl]

Also Space - The item that I gave you. Are you informed on how it works? Might want to wait until after claims to talk about it, but I don't want to forget to ask.

[skip wooznum]

Cool. (Cool cool cool.)

So we started off the game with 14 players (15 if you count space) and at this point we can identify 6 of those 14 as non-town. Do we think there's a 7th (that would mean we had only half the population at game-start), or do we think the rest of us are town and some/all of these claimed survivors are scum? I think we think the latter. I'd like to start by lynching mail-mi, but I can also do swan/didds.

[skip wooznum]

unvote

[WestCoastDidds]

My first best guess for killerz is Eddie or EFHW

We have a similar list. Only a few minor difference.

Is e on your list?

[Uncleeurope]

Cool. (Cool cool cool.)

You just became my best friend.

[Uncleeurope]

My first best guess for killerz is Eddie or EFHW

We have a similar list. Only a few minor difference.

Is e on your list?

Nah, I’m not on it.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.2:

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Datswan
mail-mi (1): EFHW
uncle (1): faust

Not Voting (5): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, WCD, uncleeurope, skip

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[Swowl]

Cool. (Cool cool cool.)

So we started off the game with 14 players (15 if you count space) and at this point we can identify 6 of those 14 as non-town. Do we think there's a 7th (that would mean we had only half the population at game-start), or do we think the rest of us are town and some/all of these claimed survivors are scum? I think we think the latter. I'd like to start by lynching mail-mi, but I can also do swan/didds.

probably let the claims finish before you point out to skum what not to claim moving forward....

[Swowl]

Cool. (Cool cool cool.)

You just became my best friend.

99!

[faust]

- All the powers that we were given were done so in a shared-factional usage, not independently. This is to say, I have all the same powers WCD does, but not "double".

So... what are these powers?

[faust]

@mail-mi: Do you have a gun?

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi: Do you have a gun?

Yes, though it only had 1 bullet

[Swowl]

- All the powers that we were given were done so in a shared-factional usage, not independently. This is to say, I have all the same powers WCD does, but not "double".

So... what are these powers?

Pretty sure that WCD already covered this, but to be clear...

1) 1 shot "give the thing to Space"(or whoever). I am completely leaving the call in Space's hands on what info to divulge on that one. That is why I asked if they knew what the item does. I will even go as far to say that if they come back with "I don't know what it does" and they want the info I will give said info without any fight.

2) 1 shot revive. One of us could revive a player once that player was dead. There were some extremely weird contingencies on this one, but essentially -  we could revive a player that was not one of us or, one Dorian could revive the other as long as a win con was not set prior to the death of the dead Dorian. So, we can either just revive someone, or we can revive one or the other of us as long as we had not yet had a fixed win con set.

3) We could of given up all powers and any use of our QT to become VTs on N0.

hope that clarifies.

[faust]

Okeydoke. Let's hear it from e.

I forgot to add that of course if Space want to claim something, they are free to do so at the end. I have another little thing I think I want to share.

[faust]

@Didds and Swan: Can you point to any posts from earlier that showcase that the 2 of you have a connection? Also, is your QT open only at Night, or also during the Day?

[WestCoastDidds]

Here you go faust.... Swan is doing far defending me because I was the one on the defensive most of the time so I just ISO'd him. I have to grade some exams, but if you want me to do the same for myself after that, lemme know

Day 1: Wherein we try to get on the same wagon

My role is complicated and has lots of moving parts, but not super powerful. (Again, kind of like my life...)

I like this softclaim. Like, not in the sense that I think it's pro-town necessarily; like, in the sense that it strikes me as true and makes me lean town on wcd.

I agree with the town read on WCD here.

I am not a fan of the EFHW or WCD cases at all. And while it isn't the best, I guess my next would be the pubby wagon in terms of choices. So that is where I will go for now.

Vote: Pubby

I apologize for being scare. Two games and the swift switch to online teaching have kicked my ass a little bit. But if not being as available as we had hoped is full on scummy, I’m not at the top of that list.

who is?

Galz, by like a mile

I mean, I am not advocating a case here, but obviously this is true.

Day 2: Wherein Swan defends me over and over again against Galz and Mail-mi (who I guess thought I might be the princess)

I understand the EFHW votes and the Galz votes....but, DatSwan, why e?

Cayvie is in my town bucket now.... so I’m not buying that she is setting up a town EFHW.

I'll get back to this down the road a bit. I have no info or anything like that.

#729 is when Galzy starts coming for me.
* On rereading I see that this is where my "bucket" verbiage comes from that Glaz decided was my scumtell

4) You opened your claim with making your "case" on WCD, which I do not agree with at all, but whatever that is not the point. Everything you did actually does line up with having the mindset of trying to find skum. At first I think it didn't, but thinking it over, it makes sense. You look into you top likely case, post it first, then post up the claim and then point out that you ofc want skum to get lynched. All that is fine... here are the issues.

a) I do not think you are gonna get skum out of WCD here, which of course is just clashing opinions, but makes me weary of your "read".
b) If your win con is "be alive when all the Aliens are dead", and as you said you believe there are Town and Skum Aliens... how do you see this claim working out for you? Real question, I did rough math, but I am sure you did it better before you claimed. Like on the ven diagram of things, I don't think that works in your favor right? Potential roles that would not want to sign your thing, unless I am missing something, include [Town Alien, Skum Alien, or like non-Alien skum]. Players on the possible sign list would be [Non-Alien Town.... and others?]. So yeah, I guess the question is... because you were not close enough to lynch to feel pressure at the time of claim... why not hold onto this info for a while? What did you gain here?
c) If I understand how this all works... which I probably don't... you are essentially just asking for help on the promise that you are tellilng the truth here right? Like there is absolutely no gain or loss for players that sign and/or agree to proxy you?


Sorry that is a lot and apologies if you embedded them in you thought process, but if I could just get some quick yes/no clarifications it would settle my mind a lot.

I believe her paranoia here is that it was the signing itself that killed LaLight.

This post is a result of knowing that we will not be told who killed us if its a NK

First, the argument that the numbers in the QT  didn’t match my claim. So... I would lie about that confirmable piece of information because...? yeah. Real smart of me. Or, you know, the more logical explanation is that somebody didn’t post (lazy or scum, who knows).

Obviously, the answer is - because you didn't know better. Like for example the recruitment to the QT was actually targeted, you targeted 4 players, it failed on one without your knowledge.

Second, bolded, I did clarify. You didn’t bother to circle back to that point though and ask me why I hadn’t yet (as it’s clear you missed it), did you? ... - or you’re just choosing to ignore it. Whichever.

Oh yeah, you did answer (when pressed about it, not on your own). And the answer is... ashersky didn't clarify. Which is funny because all the questions I asked about my role received clear and unambiguous answers from ashersky, even though they could have been answered by "you'll see when you get there". I don't believe that ashersky has a double standard in modding.

Clarification from a guy watching outside the ring - op says he won’t answer certain shit. And i can confirm that is true.

I do not want to lynch Galz or WCD. but I will lynch Galz before WCD.

Galz - I actually believe you are the survivor variant. But I believe WCD is town, which means you are the better choice if I have to choose. Will you not push eddie with me? if not will you push anyone else? I will gladly sheep you on like anyone but her or myself at this point.

I do not want to lynch Galz or WCD. but I will lynch Galz before WCD.

Galz - I actually believe you are the survivor variant. But I believe WCD is town, which means you are the better choice if I have to choose. Will you not push eddie with me? if not will you push anyone else? I will gladly sheep you on like anyone but her or myself at this point.

Why in the wide world of heck am I evil, though?

honestly, I do not have a great reason.
I am not lynching WCD.
I do not want to lynch Galz.
I still don't want to lynch Cayvie.
Space is town (today at least) so that's not happening.
gap...
I don't like the way the EFHW wagon started up... so skeptical there.

(edited down)

I am open to suggestions, even from you, if you are willing to look away from WCD/Space/faust and small ass gap - galz.

Do we have any reason to belive that there would be a concentration of aliens in the skum alignment? or are we thinking it is spread out marginally? I am not a huge follower of the show, I just watched the beginning in which most the aliens were baddies, but obv that is not the case.

Can there be Human Baddies? Can there be like *a lot* of Alien Town? does anyone know?

Didds, what is your read on Swan?

He is the opposite of jumping around, piling on, making flimsy cases, or being stubborn. So, he’s high on my town list, but not as high as cayvie.

Except 3/4 of those things are town traits.

Arguably all 4, but I can give you one.

She said I was high on her town list? im confused at your response.

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

It doesn't seem like I'll have time to reread today, sorry y'all.

Also there's a very IRL reason I've been more disengaged D2 and kinda skirting along: it's the end of the semester, which means final projects and finals are coming due. I've just been busier than I was D1

would you consider Eddie or EFHW over WCD?

k fair - but if your read on faust that makes sense, which I suppose it at least has merit to it, is "he is alien skum he would want me dead bc we can't win together", why would you spend the whole day pushing WCD instead of faust?

to clarify - unless I am missing something, your read on WCD is she is skum. Which is good for you at this point if true if they get lynched. But no where near as good as alien skum... or even probably alien town... though I have no idea how you would get a read on alien town, so I guess that doesn't matter. But still, Alien!skum is def better for you then Random!Skum.

Yeah..
I will go with

Vote:EFHW

Better than  WCD by a mile. Closely followed by Galz imo.
And while I appreciate Galz case, which is why they are grouped close to WCD there... I just don't want faust today.

Also, Swowl, you still think I’m a baddie?

I’m so tired I just want to ramble a bit.

meh. I do but for the same reasons as always, which are about as solid as Galz' reasons on WCD so yeah. But not enough to care right now.

Day 3: Wherein Swan tries to find my killer

I mean let's just make it plain and simple on Galz.

I typed out specific yes or no questions to him in that post yesterday specifically so there was no way to weasle out of it. And one of them was "is there anything about your role you have not told us"? It was then asked again by faust, and both times he said "no, I have told you everything". If he had an alignment with cayvie that would be a lie.

Also, more strange. As he did in fact get lynched... I am inclined to believe they were not actually partners (knowingly at least) because cayvie claiming truth would of been a big swing that probably saves Galz. Though cayvie was not on Galz. But then also Galz really wanted to lynch Cayvie. IDK, they both died, probably doesn't matter.

More importantly...

We have another shot and killed plus just a "killed".

Obvious question would be I think if anyone got the contract thing. If there is a reason not to claim that out, then whatever I guess hold off. But if the sign thing went out again, and someone can confirm that cayvie signed it... that is kind of a go ahead for probably do not sign that anymore.

k I am fine with splitting work with you, I can look at it my way and you can your way and we can compare notes or whatever.

But 2 distinctions of differences in our POVs from what I can see..

1) Could be Survivors still - I am absolutely not sold that they were a form of skum. I mean, I suppose I lean that way, but I am at the like let's say 70% certainty level, not 100%. While I do not know what the explanations are, there could be a world in which we could explain kills here without them being a part of the equation.

2) faust and Galz  fight - They are absolutely capable of putting on a show like that. In fact, if they are skum together, they probably would go out of their way to do it because they always but heads when they are town/town or town/skum anyways. That being said.... I got pretty genuine vibes off of there back and forth.

3) Kill Selection - Additionally, if they are a team, then cayvie was part of that team too. Cayvie died... and they shot... WCD? I don't get that one. There were a lot of people that were willing to go for Didds yesterday, and while Galz flipping that color would not be great.... they also did not know Cayvie was gonna flip. So selling that flip as survivor and "galz was telling the truth" is not hard - which would then lead to Didds as an easy set up wagon. I would think if they were a skum team of 3 they would be more inclined to aim at like you/Skip for example.

Either way - I am gonna look at it as a "searching for Red Team" and I will get back in a bit.

ok I will give you that all of that checks out fairly well.
That would explain the weak af case galz made. My theory at the time was he would never make it as skum because it was such BS... but if he thought there was a chance he claims and gets WCD lynched and then they flip as skum... yeah that would of worked fairly heavy in their favor.

They still don't technically NEED to of had the ability to kill... but I can see how that could be factored in and make sense.

faust - you say that you targeted WCD with your ability right? but got Shraeye instaed. Why WCD?

And maybe the nicest exchaneg that has ever happened in regard to me (lack of ability to fakeclaim notwithstanding):

faust - you say that you targeted WCD with your ability right? but got Shraeye instaed. Why WCD?

I thought that when I put her on the spot to make a claim, it would be easy to see whether it was genuine; she's not that experienced with fakeclaims. Also she is among the people I'd most enjoy having a QT with.

well I def can't argue with the last part. she is fun.

The only thing you attempted to do was open a QT with her?

Day 4: Wherein I live again and Swan clarifies that we win with town

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

This is a really good point.

Also, with so many choices for wincon, you would think one of them would be to be scum.

I also noticed that the first three scenarios are linked to specific alignments, but the fourth one isn't.

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

I do not comprehend any of the confusion here (minus the part that didds just updated). Like almost to a misleading point.

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

Secondly - Given the amount of flipped factions at this point, how is it not conceivable that "one of the win cons is linked to skum". Skum faction A kills her, she comes back to life and she inherently has to help skum faction B/C/D/E/F/however many the shit there are to win. That is a skum based win con. Albeit it is more survivor, but it is skum-survivor not town-survivor.

Lastly - I do not get the confusion on the win cons being linked.
1. They have no win con, and then turn into Town win con
2. They have no win con, they go day 5 with nothing happening and they gain survivor wincon.
3. They have no win con, they fullfil the lynch req, they gain town (or whatever in hindsight) wincon.
4. They have no win con, they get dead, and their win con is completely randomized based on who killed/lynched them.

They all start with having no win con, then based on events, the win con is chosen. 2 and 4 seem to be fairly directly linked to survivor, and 1 and 3 (as we don't even know if there is a skum faction of 3) seems likely to be linked to town.
Why is there a focus on #4 from you here efoo?

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

mail-mi has at least claimed that he needs to live till the end in order to win, like a survivor. So he hasn't won yet.

fair enough. I just assumed it was the same with Didds. But to your point, you are correct, they did not specify that.

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

mail-mi has at least claimed that he needs to live till the end in order to win, like a survivor. So he hasn't won yet.

fair enough. I just assumed it was the same with Didds. But to your point, you are correct, they did not specify that.

Not only did she not specify it, she in fact specified the opposite; namely that she would continue to play after having won. Later she walked it back a little.

well that is kind of my point. her specifying that she would continue to play and mail mi specifying their win con in the way they did led me to believe they were similar.

[faust]

Here you go faust.... Swan is doing far defending me because I was the one on the defensive most of the time so I just ISO'd him. I have to grade some exams, but if you want me to do the same for myself after that, lemme know

I'd loathe to keep you from the extremely fun task of grading... which I am definitely not putting off as we speak.

[faust]

I know we're waiting for e, but I would be happy to hear some discussions on the claims we've seen so far in the meantime.

[WestCoastDidds]

Here you go faust.... Swan is doing far defending me because I was the one on the defensive most of the time so I just ISO'd him. I have to grade some exams, but if you want me to do the same for myself after that, lemme know

I'd loathe to keep you from the extremely fun task of grading... which I am definitely not putting off as we speak.

Wanna trade?  I'll grade yours and you grade mine? B+ for everyone!

[skip wooznum]

I know we're waiting for e, but I would be happy to hear some discussions on the claims we've seen so far in the meantime.

I want to lynch the heck out of claimed survivors. Especially ones that are shooting people. Especially if they were blocked and no other nk happened.

[mail-mi]

I know we're waiting for e, but I would be happy to hear some discussions on the claims we've seen so far in the meantime.

I want to lynch the heck out of claimed survivors. Especially ones that are shooting people. Especially if they were blocked and no other nk happened.

Perhaps shraeye was the last scum with a regular night kill. Also there are bunches of ways for kills to be stopped. Killing me will do nothing to accomplish town's goal.

Besides I'm still pretty sure there's only 1 yellow scum left, especially now that we have more nontown claims.

[mail-mi]

@Didds and @Swan, do both/either of you need to be alive at the end of the game to win?

[WestCoastDidds]

@Didds and @Swan, do both/either of you need to be alive at the end of the game to win?

Yes, one of us has to be alive. Which is why I said I didn't have to be alive as long as my killer was dead to win.

We have never have had the ability to kill anyone. The revive was our big trick.

[WestCoastDidds]

We really need to hear from e. He's played under the radar consistently, and seemingly has no involvement with anything...which knowing this game makes no sense at all.

[2.71828.....]

Hey!

I am Anne Mason, a doctor.  N1 I doctored faust, N2 Space, N3 faust again.  So there could be another reason that we missed a NK last night.

[2.71828.....]

Also, sorry for not being around.  Last night was little guy's first night of sleep training. It was rough.

But he went to sleep tonight and has been staying asleep! So it is working! (As soon as I post this he is going to start crying in 3...2..)

I am going to go back and recap what we have claimed right now

[skip wooznum]

Awesome. vote: e

[skip wooznum]

I am Anne Glass-Mason.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hot damn!

[Swowl]

yeah I can kind of go with hot damn here....

[Swowl]

I have never been in a game where CC on flavor has happened before.
This is weird.

[skip wooznum]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

[skip wooznum]

I have never been in a game where CC on flavor has happened before.
This is weird.

Are scum usually given safeclaims?

e claimed when only 2 people's flavour were unknown (mine and faust's) so he probably felt like there was decent shot it was a safe claim.

[skip wooznum]

Also, doctor is a pretty uninspired claim for this type of game.

[2.71828.....]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

I've got a minute, I am going to full claim my rolepowers.

My flavor name is simply The Hunter. My win condition is as you've been told.

I have a 1-shot Vig that I can use to hunt my target. I think shraeye's claimed "2 powers target me and I die" is a lie since my vig would kill him. I asked ash about it after shraeye claimed, and he said I would be able to kill the Last Princess with my shot. Since shraeye was already dead, I tried to shoot EFHW last night because either her or eddie is the last scum.

I also have a weakened flavor cop. Each night I can target a player and learn if they are the Last Princess or not. I learn no other information about the player.

I'm also 1-shot Bulletproof, and I am not informed if that shot is used up or not. That may be why we didn't have a kill last night, though I have no idea why scum would shoot at me from yesterday, so it's probably something else.

I am more interested in why you were confident enough to create a 1v1 with me.

vote: skip

[skip wooznum]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

He didn't claim what I gave him.

[skip wooznum]

I am more interested in why you were confident enough to create a 1v1 with me.

vote: skip

Yeah it's almost as if it makes no sense for me to do this as scum....

[mail-mi]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

He didn't claim what I gave him.

Yeah, but I'd be more interested in you claiming and me being able to confirm your claim.

[skip wooznum]

Alright. It will be clear from my claim why Mail-mi should go first but it doesn't really matter all that much.

I am Anne Glass-Mason, and I'm the surgeon general.

Basically, I'm an inventor. There's a list of 4 degrees: MBA, MD, MFA, and JD. I don't know what any of them mean. Each night I can target somebody who had no votes on them at the end of that day. One degree is randomly selected and I give it to my target. I cannot target the same player twice. N1 I targeted cayvie, N2 I targeted space, N3 I targeted faust.

I have another power, and I have no idea what the point of it is. Once per game, at night, I can target a player who finished the day at least at L-2. They will be lynchproof for the next day.

[Swowl]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

He didn't claim what I gave him.

Yeah, but I'd be more interested in you claiming and me being able to confirm your claim.

are you assuming he does not know what you have? bc otherwise this kind of makes no sense.

[Swowl]

ok do we have confirmations from the other 2 already that they got your stuff?

[skip wooznum]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

He didn't claim what I gave him.

Yeah, but I'd be more interested in you claiming and me being able to confirm your claim.

are you assuming he does not know what you have? bc otherwise this kind of makes no sense.

I actually dont know what Mail-mi has. But I also don't know what faust has, so I couldn't have lied about it even if I went after Mail-mi.

[skip wooznum]

ok do we have confirmations from the other 2 already that they got your stuff?

Well, space said they didn't get anything, so idk. Faust put me last in claim order, so probably he got it, but he hasn't said anything yet.

[mail-mi]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

He didn't claim what I gave him.

Yeah, but I'd be more interested in you claiming and me being able to confirm your claim.

are you assuming he does not know what you have? bc otherwise this kind of makes no sense.

No I am assuming he does, but I'd rather be the one confirming than confirmed.

I received a 1-shot doctor from Skip.

[WestCoastDidds]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

He didn't claim what I gave him.

Yeah, but I'd be more interested in you claiming and me being able to confirm your claim.

are you assuming he does not know what you have? bc otherwise this kind of makes no sense.

No I am assuming he does, but I'd rather be the one confirming than confirmed.

I received a 1-shot doctor from Skip.

that matches up with an MD, the other degrees aren't as clear to me

[Swowl]

ok welp. I pretty much believe Skip here then. Which pretty much means... E gotta be lying yeah?

[WestCoastDidds]

On it's face, absent any other evidence, Skip's multifacted role seems much more in line with the layers of roles in this game than e's rather plain role seems.

[WestCoastDidds]

ok welp. I pretty much believe Skip here then. Which pretty much means... E gotta be lying yeah?

I think so, yeah? We could wait and see if faust or Space have anything to add, but I don't see deciding that Skip is on the worse side of this matchup

[mail-mi]

I see no reason not to lunch e here, I think.

[WestCoastDidds]

Same

vote: e

[skip wooznum]

It's mail-mi's turn. I will fullclaim right after.

mail-mi already claimed

He didn't claim what I gave him.

Yeah, but I'd be more interested in you claiming and me being able to confirm your claim.

are you assuming he does not know what you have? bc otherwise this kind of makes no sense.

No I am assuming he does, but I'd rather be the one confirming than confirmed.

I received a 1-shot doctor from Skip.

that matches up with an MD, the other degrees aren't as clear to me

I know, right? It's been driving me crazy for over a month that I don't know what any of them do. MD was fairly easy, though I didn't know if it was 1-shot, but the others totally stumped me. I was looking forward to getting some answers today, but mail-mi apparently got the only obvious one. We'll see what faust says.

Actor, banker, and lawyer are all roles on the mafia scum wiki, but if I remember correctly (I looked it up more than a month ago), they're all anti-town. So I doubt it's those.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.3:

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Datswan
mail-mi (1): EFHW
uncle (1): faust
2.7 (2): skip, WCD
skip (1): 2.7

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, uncleeurope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[Swowl]

Vote: E

[2.71828.....]

WCD, Swan - carefully watch the kill tonight. It will just be a normal kill. WCD was killed by a shot and kill.

Mafia did not kill WCD.

If you want to win, work with us. Or, you know, the night is dark and full of terrors. Who knows what might happen.

Vote: space

[2.71828.....]

Or, you know, just join me now. Guarantees the win.

If you want additional confirmation about the kills though, lynch me. It's fine.

You will have the same option tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

Maybe you feel confident enough to win with town. Winning with town just feels right. Winning with mafia feels wrong

I get that gut reaction. But we play to our win conditions, and joining the mafia guarantees your survival to the end with a win.

[2.71828.....]

Mail-mi, same goes for you. Your job here is done. Now you just need to survive.

There are scarier things than the espheni out there. We can guarantee protection from them

[faust]

Vote: e

[Swowl]

E!
Unless you are claiming to be the person that shot us, I do not see how this helps us. As we have no way of knowing that
a) we will live
b) you are truthful.

[2.71828.....]

Also, let me be clear. This isn't kingmaking.

Mafia will win this game. While we wanted a perfect game and that may not happen, we will still win.

I will flip that elusive red color. While we technically don't have the full majority to win ouright yet (I mean, the game is still on), we will. And with the three of you, we already do

[2.71828.....]

E!
Unless you are claiming to be the person that shot us, I do not see how this helps us. As we have no way of knowing that
a) we will live
b) you are truthful.

No you don't.

I did not shoot you. Mafia do not "shoot"

Town can't guarantee you live, mafia can
And yeah, trust in this situation is hard, I get it

[2.71828.....]

Watch the NK flavor tonight. No shooting

[faust]

I confirm that I received the thing from skip. There is another part to my role that I intended to claim, but now it seems like not such a good idea.

But you know, if you want to betray us Swan, go ahead. I will do everything in my power to stop you.

[2.71828.....]

The humanists were your enemies. We just to emerge the leaders in this new life.

You can share in that power

[Swowl]

but I don't get it.
if you get lyched, and they are more of you... are you claiming that you what? have no shots left?

[faust]

If a mafia win was certain, the game would have been called. Mafia has nothing left but empty threats. If they could secure the win, this day would have played out differently.

[faust]

Actually -

Vote: Eddie

[faust]

Given the revelation of a red faction, it is extra important to remove both of Eddie's powers from the game.

[Swowl]

I confirm that I received the thing from skip. There is another part to my role that I intended to claim, but now it seems like not such a good idea.

But you know, if you want to betray us Swan, go ahead. I will do everything in my power to stop you.

I mean if I wanted to do it, it would happen. But I don't. I have no way of verifying anything that E! is saying rn. So I see no upside to it.

[Swowl]

Given the revelation of a red faction, it is extra important to remove both of Eddie's powers from the game.

man cmon. we could played that one out a bit. too quick.

[faust]

I confirm that I received the thing from skip. There is another part to my role that I intended to claim, but now it seems like not such a good idea.

But you know, if you want to betray us Swan, go ahead. I will do everything in my power to stop you.

I mean if I wanted to do it, it would happen. But I don't. I have no way of verifying anything that E! is saying rn. So I see no upside to it.

So let's get Eddie up to lynch, see if he's telling the truth, and then lynch e.

[Swowl]

I confirm that I received the thing from skip. There is another part to my role that I intended to claim, but now it seems like not such a good idea.

But you know, if you want to betray us Swan, go ahead. I will do everything in my power to stop you.

I mean if I wanted to do it, it would happen. But I don't. I have no way of verifying anything that E! is saying rn. So I see no upside to it.

So let's get Eddie up to lynch, see if he's telling the truth, and then lynch e.

I mean with eddies power it wouldn't matter right? they can prevent the lynch if I get it correctly right?

[Swowl]

other than that your logic make sense-ish, other than E! is conf!skum and my win con kinda makes me wanna go with conf!Skum.
What am I missing here? I am pokering and doing this at the same time.

[faust]

I confirm that I received the thing from skip. There is another part to my role that I intended to claim, but now it seems like not such a good idea.

But you know, if you want to betray us Swan, go ahead. I will do everything in my power to stop you.

I mean if I wanted to do it, it would happen. But I don't. I have no way of verifying anything that E! is saying rn. So I see no upside to it.

So let's get Eddie up to lynch, see if he's telling the truth, and then lynch e.

I mean with eddies power it wouldn't matter right? they can prevent the lynch if I get it correctly right?

Eddie's power can be used to prevent a lynch last-minute, which is at least potentially dangerous.

Also if he's lying, then we get a free scum lynch.

[skip wooznum]

Given the revelation of a red faction, it is extra important to remove both of Eddie's powers from the game.

Do you know eddie is bad, or just that it makes sense to force him to use up his powers, in case he's bad?

[Swowl]

I confirm that I received the thing from skip. There is another part to my role that I intended to claim, but now it seems like not such a good idea.

But you know, if you want to betray us Swan, go ahead. I will do everything in my power to stop you.

I mean if I wanted to do it, it would happen. But I don't. I have no way of verifying anything that E! is saying rn. So I see no upside to it.

So let's get Eddie up to lynch, see if he's telling the truth, and then lynch e.

I mean with eddies power it wouldn't matter right? they can prevent the lynch if I get it correctly right?

Eddie's power can be used to prevent a lynch last-minute, which is at least potentially dangerous.

Also if he's lying, then we get a free scum lynch.

I mean if he is lying we can still get a free skum lynch with E right?
Don't get me wrong I have been on and off Eddie from get go... but this seems like taking a gift and giving it away a little.

[faust]

other than that your logic make sense-ish, other than E! is conf!skum and my win con kinda makes me wanna go with conf!Skum.
What am I missing here? I am pokering and doing this at the same time.

I don't know what to tell you, man. I seems like a bad design choice to have a 2-player kingmaking faction sticking around, but here we are I guess.

It's not like mafia would ever shoot you though. That makes no sense for them, no matter their threats.

[Swowl]

other than that your logic make sense-ish, other than E! is conf!skum and my win con kinda makes me wanna go with conf!Skum.
What am I missing here? I am pokering and doing this at the same time.

I don't know what to tell you, man. I seems like a bad design choice to have a 2-player kingmaking faction sticking around, but here we are I guess.

It's not like mafia would ever shoot you though. That makes no sense for them, no matter their threats.

Win con could have to do with us. That is why I assume Galz/Cayvie killed WCD. but yes, outside of that I agree with you.

[Swowl]

so what is the plan here if we run eddie up and then they just prevent their own lynch last minute?

[faust]

I mean if he is lying we can still get a free skum lynch with E right?
Don't get me wrong I have been on and off Eddie from get go... but this seems like taking a gift and giving it away a little.

Yeah, but having a confirmed scum still around when night falls helps with Night action targeting.

[faust]

so what is the plan here if we run eddie up and then they just prevent their own lynch last minute?

I mean, clearly we shouldn't draw it out to the last minute.

If Eddie prevents the lynch, then I suppose we lynch e. Though Eddie is still scum, so I guess we could lynch him regardless.

[skip wooznum]

@faust, is efhw scum too? Is anybody town? What the heck is this game??

[skip wooznum]

@faust, is efhw scum too? Is anybody town? What the heck is this game??

None of these questions are sarcastic.

[skip wooznum]

@faust, is efhw scum too? Is anybody town? What the heck is this game??

None of these questions are sarcastic.

Well, not none. But still...

[Swowl]

@faust, is efhw scum too? Is anybody town? What the heck is this game??

nonono. he has a point here. I think at least. gimme a sec.

[skip wooznum]

vote: eddie

[faust]

@faust, is efhw scum too? Is anybody town? What the heck is this game??

Well EFHW is scum if the red team has 3 members. Otherwise it's just Eddie/e. I have some hope that she's town given that her targeting mail-mi is confirmed and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for scum to do that.

[faust]

And if Swan/Didds decide to turn on us, we definitely have one recourse - everyone who gets their hands on it should sign those petitions!

[Swowl]

And if Swan/Didds decide to turn on us, we definitely have one recourse - everyone who gets their hands on it should sign those petitions!

I mean, I don't see that happening. but also, not sure what the petition would do to us?

[faust]

And if Swan/Didds decide to turn on us, we definitely have one recourse - everyone who gets their hands on it should sign those petitions!

I mean, I don't see that happening. but also, not sure what the petition would do to us?

Neither am I. But I assume nothing good.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.4:

EFHW (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): EFHW
uncle (2): faust, skip
2.7 (2): WCD, Datswan
Space (1): 2.7

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, uncleeurope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: e

An important thing to remember in this trying time: I am town.

EFHW is the other member you are looking for. She has an ability that helps her look for the other scum faction, and a RB. That’s a mafia.

How many people started in this game? 14?

2 Mafia
2 Humanist
2 DatSwan/WCD +1
2 Shraeye/Mail-Mi
6 Town +1

Is that what we are looking at here? If all of our third parties are truthful, then town just wasn’t going to win this. But that definitely makes the Swowl/WCD duo more likely to be telling the truth about mostly having a list of town win conditions.

It also makes me wonder about overlap in that list.

I also was fairly conservative in my choices here, because we could be looking at a 3 person mafia.

Also would like to note that this game is heavily political, with the two sides seemingly being the extremists on this alien issue, and town being the people in the middle.

I gather that my role as the president in this is the moderator, which is why my abilities are to do with voting.

I am town, people.

[Uncleeurope]

I would also like to note that our yellow team had an “alien cop” and our alien team having a “gun cop” is extremely clean. Both abilities have the chance to get a “false result” on a town member, while also pointing towards the opposing scum faction.

[faust]

An important thing to remember in this trying time: I am town.

I'm sure that the other sparse members of town got awesome powers to confirm themselves and you got stuck with a bunch of crap useless powers.

[faust]

Also would like to note that this game is heavily political, with the two sides seemingly being the extremists on this alien issue, and town being the people in the middle.

Cool, so you know the mafia flavor? Good to know.

[Uncleeurope]

An important thing to remember in this trying time: I am town.

I'm sure that the other sparse members of town got awesome powers to confirm themselves and you got stuck with a bunch of crap useless powers.

I am just as more disappointed than you are.

[Uncleeurope]

Also would like to note that this game is heavily political, with the two sides seemingly being the extremists on this alien issue, and town being the people in the middle.

Cool, so you know the mafia flavor? Good to know.

Okay, if you are going to tunnel a concept, at least let it be one that’s correct.

Like EFHW being evil.

[Uncleeurope]

Also would like to note that this game is heavily political, with the two sides seemingly being the extremists on this alien issue, and town being the people in the middle.

Cool, so you know the mafia flavor? Good to know.

As a proper response, I know nothing, it just makes sense from the secret meeting flavor of the Yellow team and the flavor attached to my role.

I can dissolve quorums and call for a revote.

It just seems like my idea fits with the flavor of the game.

[2.71828.....]

other than that your logic make sense-ish, other than E! is conf!skum and my win con kinda makes me wanna go with conf!Skum.
What am I missing here? I am pokering and doing this at the same time.

Your wincon is to survive until the end. The revenge half is complete.

To be clear: we have a 3 person mafia team. If you lynch me, one of you does tonight, the other the following night and you lose

You join me and lynch space, you win.

WCD and Swan both need to join me voting for space, then my partners can complete the lynch.

[Uncleeurope]

other than that your logic make sense-ish, other than E! is conf!skum and my win con kinda makes me wanna go with conf!Skum.
What am I missing here? I am pokering and doing this at the same time.

Your wincon is to survive until the end. The revenge half is complete.

To be clear: we have a 3 person mafia team. If you lynch me, one of you does tonight, the other the following night and you lose

You join me and lynch space, you win.

WCD and Swan both need to join me voting for space, then my partners can complete the lynch.

Who are the three mafia, then?

[Uncleeurope]

other than that your logic make sense-ish, other than E! is conf!skum and my win con kinda makes me wanna go with conf!Skum.
What am I missing here? I am pokering and doing this at the same time.

Your wincon is to survive until the end. The revenge half is complete.

To be clear: we have a 3 person mafia team. If you lynch me, one of you does tonight, the other the following night and you lose

You join me and lynch space, you win.

WCD and Swan both need to join me voting for space, then my partners can complete the lynch.

Who are the three mafia, then?

Mail-Mi being a scum who Shraeye was tasked to kill also makes sense.

From the perspective of having 30 scum in a game, I think most of the NK-less factions are tasked with having mostly pro-town win-cons.

There HAS to be overlap with the list I made above.

Because only having 6 town is absurd (and that could actually be 5 if e is being truthful...?)

So I think Mail-Mi could easily be a scum who Shraeye could have helped deal with (ya know, if he was alive)

I am reaching here, but I am struggling to come up with ways for this nonsense to be something town could win.

[faust]

Nice try but no.

[Uncleeurope]

Nice try but no.

What’s the percent chance that you think I am scum here?

Because I sure hope it’s a nice try, because it has a surprising amount of genuinity. Almost like it’s an effortless performance.

[faust]

What’s the percent chance that you think I am scum here?

Why do you want to know? So you can either say I'm too sure of myself or that I shouldn't be pushing this hard when there's a chance that I'm wrong?

[WestCoastDidds]

WCD, Swan - carefully watch the kill tonight. It will just be a normal kill. WCD was killed by a shot and kill.

Mafia did not kill WCD.

If you want to win, work with us. Or, you know, the night is dark and full of terrors. Who knows what might happen.

Vote: space

Talk to me, goose.  Who shot and killed me?

[Uncleeurope]

What’s the percent chance that you think I am scum here?

Why do you want to know? So you can either say I'm too sure of myself or that I shouldn't be pushing this hard when there's a chance that I'm wrong?

I am trying to determine if you brushing off anything I say is an act, if it is just to annoy me, it is you genuinely not wanting to listen to my thoughts, or you are just enjoying talking down to me.

And if it’s the last one, how much of an “I told you so” dance I am allowed to have at the end of this while still maintaining my dignity. A percentage is nice because it helps me have a similarly sized dance.

[2.71828.....]

WCD, Swan - carefully watch the kill tonight. It will just be a normal kill. WCD was killed by a shot and kill.

Mafia did not kill WCD.

If you want to win, work with us. Or, you know, the night is dark and full of terrors. Who knows what might happen.

Vote: space

Talk to me, goose.  Who shot and killed me?

I would assume Cayvie. I know you both died the same night, but kills usually happen at the same time in order of operations

[Uncleeurope]

Because I don’t know about you, but this game hasn’t been going that well for me.

Every opinion I have had all game has been ignored, and I don’t have a power that I can use.

So I have just been sitting and watching this entire time.

[2.71828.....]

Or Galzria did the kill, they were both humanists

[WestCoastDidds]

Mail-mi, same goes for you. Your job here is done. Now you just need to survive.

There are scarier things than the espheni out there. We can guarantee protection from them

E, the scum faction is espheni?

[2.71828.....]

Mail-mi, same goes for you. Your job here is done. Now you just need to survive.

There are scarier things than the espheni out there. We can guarantee protection from them

E, the scum faction is espheni?

No, espheni is still the enemy. But we took care of that with shraeye's lynch

[faust]

Or Galzria did the kill, they were both humanists

Hey, your story would probably be more believable if you could prove your team really has 3 people on it. Just a thought.

[WestCoastDidds]

Or Galzria did the kill, they were both humanists

He was lynched before I died, so that wouldn’t work, right?

Who did the red team kill?

[WestCoastDidds]

Day 3 Final Vote Count:

EFHW (2): uncle, DatSwan
shraeye (5): faust, EFHW, 2.7, Space, mail-mi


Not Voting (2): shraeye, skip

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[WestCoastDidds]

If it’s three, it has to be e, Eddie, and EFHW

[2.71828.....]

Or Galzria did the kill, they were both humanists

He was lynched before I died, so that wouldn’t work, right?

Who did the red team kill?

Oh yeah, I looked up when you died again because I have a bad memory, but glossed over the fact that Galzria was just lynched.

We killed cayvie that night

[2.71828.....]

You can thank is by voting space

[WestCoastDidds]

Mail-mi, same goes for you. Your job here is done. Now you just need to survive.

There are scarier things than the espheni out there. We can guarantee protection from them

E, the scum faction is espheni?

No, espheni is still the enemy. But we took care of that with shraeye's lynch

Are you aliens?

[WestCoastDidds]

I need more help...

Did you kill LL or mix?

Why was there no kill last night?

[2.71828.....]

Mail-mi, same goes for you. Your job here is done. Now you just need to survive.

There are scarier things than the espheni out there. We can guarantee protection from them

E, the scum faction is espheni?

No, espheni is still the enemy. But we took care of that with shraeye's lynch

Are you aliens?

Human. Would have been better for us had we kept the humanists around, but hindsight is 20/20. Winning with them would have worked. But instead we can win with you

[2.71828.....]

I need more help...

Did you kill LL or mix?

Why was there no kill last night?

LaLight. So long ago....

Not sure about last night.

[WestCoastDidds]

Or Galzria did the kill, they were both humanists

Hey, your story would probably be more believable if you could prove your team really has 3 people on it. Just a thought.

Agreed. How can he do that?

[2.71828.....]

Or Galzria did the kill, they were both humanists

Hey, your story would probably be more believable if you could prove your team really has 3 people on it. Just a thought.

Agreed. How can he do that?

I mean, I can't "prove" anything until we get all the flips.

Closest way to prove it would be if you Dorians vote for space, and then my partners can hop on

[faust]

Or Galzria did the kill, they were both humanists

Hey, your story would probably be more believable if you could prove your team really has 3 people on it. Just a thought.

Agreed. How can he do that?

The rest of the team can claim.

[faust]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

[WestCoastDidds]

E!
Unless you are claiming to be the person that shot us, I do not see how this helps us. As we have no way of knowing that
a) we will live
b) you are truthful.

No you don't.

I did not shoot you. Mafia do not "shoot"

Town can't guarantee you live, mafia can
And yeah, trust in this situation is hard, I get it

y’all have been hunting the shooters? Are there more shooters left?

How can you guarantee we live?

PPE 1

[2.71828.....]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

faust, I am not asking you to vote for your IC.

I am asking the Dorians if they want to win or lose

[2.71828.....]

E!
Unless you are claiming to be the person that shot us, I do not see how this helps us. As we have no way of knowing that
a) we will live
b) you are truthful.

No you don't.

I did not shoot you. Mafia do not "shoot"

Town can't guarantee you live, mafia can
And yeah, trust in this situation is hard, I get it

y’all have been hunting the shooters? Are there more shooters left?

How can you guarantee we live?

PPE 1

No, we weren't hunting shooters, per se. Just lynchin' and killin' our way to victory.

[2.71828.....]

As for the guarantee about your survival?

Humanists are dead (pretty sure)
SK is dead
We aren't lynching you.

The only way you die is if we kill you. Which after you team up with us won't happen

[WestCoastDidds]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

So, if those three are scum

Swan, yams, and I are not scum

Faust, space, and skip are town

We need three more days to lynch all of them, they need three nights to kill all of you. So, if we lynch e then the three days happen sooner than the three nights, yeah?

[faust]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

So, if those three are scum

Swan, yams, and I are not scum

Faust, space, and skip are town

We need three more days to lynch all of them, they need three nights to kill all of you. So, if we lynch e then the three days happen sooner than the three nights, yeah?

Indeed.

[WestCoastDidds]

As for the guarantee about your survival?

Humanists are dead (pretty sure)
SK is dead
We aren't lynching you.

The only way you die is if we kill you. Which after you team up with us won't happen

You win when you outnumber town? So there is no point in killing us regardless, yeah?

[faust]

FWIW, I think there's only 2 red scum anyways, the inclusion of EFHW is just an extra precaution.

[2.71828.....]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

So, if those three are scum

Swan, yams, and I are not scum

Faust, space, and skip are town

We need three more days to lynch all of them, they need three nights to kill all of you. So, if we lynch e then the three days happen sooner than the three nights, yeah?

Are you talking fastest path to victory?

2 town lynches make a mafia majority to trigger game end

[faust]

If they felt this good about their chances of winning, they wouldn't have waited to crawl out of their hole until they were caught in a lie.

[Uncleeurope]

FWIW, I think there's only 2 red scum anyways, the inclusion of EFHW is just an extra precaution.

Now you are just trying to upset me.

You would actually place me above EFHW?

...?
....?
.....?
......?
.......?
What?

[faust]

FWIW, I think there's only 2 red scum anyways, the inclusion of EFHW is just an extra precaution.

Now you are just trying to upset me.

You would actually place me above EFHW?

...?
....?
.....?
......?
.......?
What?

YOu can try to convince me otherwise if you want. But please drop the AtE for it.

[Uncleeurope]

FWIW, I think there's only 2 red scum anyways, the inclusion of EFHW is just an extra precaution.

Now you are just trying to upset me.

You would actually place me above EFHW?

...?
....?
.....?
......?
.......?
What?

YOu can try to convince me otherwise if you want. But please drop the AtE for it.

My attempts to actually approach the issue like a rational human being have received the glorious honor of “nice try”

Someone vote for me so I can cancel the votes.

I keep having to refresh this because I don’t want to miss the window.

[faust]

YOu can try to convince me otherwise if you want. But please drop the AtE for it.

My attempts to actually approach the issue like a rational human being have received the glorious honor of “nice try”

My bad, I thought that was you making an argument that mail-mi is scum, not that you are town.

[skip wooznum]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

So, if those three are scum

Swan, yams, and I are not scum

Faust, space, and skip are town

We need three more days to lynch all of them, they need three nights to kill all of you. So, if we lynch e then the three days happen sooner than the three nights, yeah?

Are you talking fastest path to victory?

2 town lynches make a mafia majority to trigger game end

So you admit you don't have a 3 person scumteam.

[Uncleeurope]

If he doesn’t have a three person scum team, and Swidds votes for space, then what’s the play for him at that point? I mean, it’s a bold move for him at two scum.

I wonder if he has a double-vote.

[faust]

If he doesn’t have a three person scum team, and Swidds votes for space, then what’s the play for him at that point? I mean, it’s a bold move for him at two scum.

I wonder if he has a double-vote.

Errr...

e + partner + Didds + Swan + mail-mi = 5 (needed to lynch)

[Uncleeurope]

If he doesn’t have a three person scum team, and Swidds votes for space, then what’s the play for him at that point? I mean, it’s a bold move for him at two scum.

I wonder if he has a double-vote.

Errr...

e + partner + Didds + Swan + mail-mi = 5 (needed to lynch)

Oh, right, Mail-mi. K, carry on.

[2.71828.....]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

So, if those three are scum

Swan, yams, and I are not scum

Faust, space, and skip are town

We need three more days to lynch all of them, they need three nights to kill all of you. So, if we lynch e then the three days happen sooner than the three nights, yeah?

Are you talking fastest path to victory?

2 town lynches make a mafia majority to trigger game end

So you admit you don't have a 3 person scumteam.

There are 9 people alive, takes 5 to Lynch

After two town lynches + two NKs....

5 alive, 3 to Lynch.

If there were 2 of us we would need 3 lynches. Because you don't add 3rd parties in the count for "majority"

[WestCoastDidds]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

[faust]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

You are more coldhearted than I anticipated...

[WestCoastDidds]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

You are more coldhearted than I anticipated...

No, I’m not. You know me.

[WestCoastDidds]

Unless you are talking about the yams part, then I totally am.

[faust]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

You are more coldhearted than I anticipated...

No, I’m not. You know me.

I thought so, but it seems you are considering winning with the bad guys. I thought mail-mi and Swan might go for that, I didn't think you would.

I mean, I don't want to shame you into winning with us, but I don't have another recourse here, realistically I don't think you can lose anymore. Though I will do everything in my power to get there if you do decide to vote for Space.

[WestCoastDidds]

We need to know if any of the baddies are aliens

[faust]

We need to know if any of the baddies are aliens

Why does it matter? Have you lied?

[2.71828.....]

We need to know if any of the baddies are aliens

Why does that matter? You can only win with humans?

[WestCoastDidds]

It matters. I haven’t lied.  Are all of the scum humans?

[2.71828.....]

It matters. I haven’t lied.  Are all of the scum humans?

Yes

[2.71828.....]

It matters. I haven’t lied.  Are all of the scum humans?

Yes

Well, all the mafia are human.

I would also say shraeye was scum, and an alien. Just not mafia

[Uncleeurope]

It matters. I haven’t lied.  Are all of the scum humans?

Yes

Well, all the mafia are human.

I would also say shraeye was scum, and an alien. Just not mafia

What’s your real flavor name?

[WestCoastDidds]

We need to know if any of the baddies are aliens

Why does it matter? Have you lied?

Space needs to know

[mail-mi]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

I'm listening. I have no qualms with winning with good guys or bad guys as long as I win.

[mail-mi]

@faust Why are you voting for Eddie ? Won't he just toggle a no lynch?


I need to look over his powers again.

[faust]

@faust Why are you voting for Eddie ? Won't he just toggle a no lynch?


I need to look over his powers again.

No no, he'll just confirm that he has the thing and then we're free to lynch someone else. If he's telling the truth.

[WestCoastDidds]

Obviously Swan hasn’t seen any of this exchange yet, so I’m not making any decisions

I’m not convinced that mafia aren’t shooting and killing, and there is no way for me to be sure unless another red team person confirms or we wait to see what happens tonight. If the scum team are shooting and killing, Swowl and I can only win with town.  I know that town didn’t kill me. I’m not sure about the red team. I’m also not sure that yams doesn’t have a shot.

[faust]

We need to know if any of the baddies are aliens

Why does it matter? Have you lied?

Space needs to know

I thought we were doing the whole bit where the protagonists seem to turn against each other and the baddies reveal important parts of their plan

[WestCoastDidds]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

I'm listening. I have no qualms with winning with good guys or bad guys as long as I win.

We know that you’ve met your wincon. I’m not as sure that swan and I have met ours. I don’t see that scum has any reason to kill any of us, not town any reason to lynch any of us. But I kind of think we’re stronger together.

[WestCoastDidds]

We need to know if any of the baddies are aliens

Why does it matter? Have you lied?

Space needs to know

I thought we were doing the whole bit where the protagonists seem to turn against each other and the baddies reveal important parts of their plan

We were! But I think we have as much as we will get about that. I’m not sure that e isn’t lying about being human. Between EFHW and Eddie, I think EFHW is more likely an alien.

[faust]

We need to know if any of the baddies are aliens

Why does it matter? Have you lied?

Space needs to know

I thought we were doing the whole bit where the protagonists seem to turn against each other and the baddies reveal important parts of their plan

We were! But I think we have as much as we will get about that. I’m not sure that e isn’t lying about being human. Between EFHW and Eddie, I think EFHW is more likely an alien.

I think that e would more likely be in need of a fakeclaim if he was alien. Maybe a flip will reveal something about their flavor and that will make it easier to decide.

[faust]

I agree about the EFHW vs Eddie assessment, provided Eddie is telling the truth about his powers.

[mail-mi]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

I'm listening. I have no qualms with winning with good guys or bad guys as long as I win.

We know that you’ve met your wincon. I’m not as sure that swan and I have met ours. I don’t see that scum has any reason to kill any of us, not town any reason to lynch any of us. But I kind of think we’re stronger together.

I think you're right. My current leaning is to side with e; if it's really a 3 man scumteam, with us three that's 6 v. 3 and an obvious win. If we side with town, scum can kill us. Maybe not in their best interest, but they can kill us.

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, wait, Didds is alive, Didds an yell you guys that I soft-claimed being president in our private chat.

Don’t know if that matters to anyone.

[faust]

Presidents are clearly always good people whose goal isn't to let lots of people die for their own personal benefit.

[WestCoastDidds]

Maybe you feel confident enough to win with town. Winning with town just feels right. Winning with mafia feels wrong

I get that gut reaction. But we play to our win conditions, and joining the mafia guarantees your survival to the end with a win.

I’m rereading and this makes me laugh. You totally are the peer pressure dude at the party with weed.

[WestCoastDidds]

Mai-mi (you’re totally “yams” now!)- what do you think about this?

I'm listening. I have no qualms with winning with good guys or bad guys as long as I win.

We know that you’ve met your wincon. I’m not as sure that swan and I have met ours. I don’t see that scum has any reason to kill any of us, not town any reason to lynch any of us. But I kind of think we’re stronger together.

I think you're right. My current leaning is to side with e; if it's really a 3 man scumteam, with us three that's 6 v. 3 and an obvious win. If we side with town, scum can kill us. Maybe not in their best interest, but they can kill us.

I gotta see the NK. If they killed me, I lose.

[2.71828.....]

Another night, another nightmare. Every one of us who lived through the invasion has them. The sound of explosions, the silence of being stalked, the machine hum of killer robots. And then the sun comes up, and we are still here. Well, some of us.

Sometimes there are just...bodies. They aren't explained, they aren't commented on. Because no matter what, it's still better than before, when we were under the domination of the Espheni.

--Diary Entry, sunrise during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


WCD was shot and killed during the night. She was 西海岸ディッズ, a Dornian.
cayvie was killed during the night. She was Isabella, a Delusional Humanist. She was Human.

We killed cayvie. Why would the humanists kill their own player? Cayvie for sure didn't shoot himself

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, wait, Didds is alive, Didds an yell you guys that I soft-claimed being president in our private chat.

Don’t know if that matters to anyone.

I just reread, but I’m not seeing anything presidential. Can you direct me?

[2.71828.....]

N1 - two kills, humanist+mafia kills
N2 - two kills, humanist+mafia kills
N3 - no kills, mafia kill prevented

You were killed by the humanists (cayvie) who the mafia killed

[skip wooznum]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

[mail-mi]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

When he resets, we all get one vote that we can't change, right?

[faust]

Another night, another nightmare. Every one of us who lived through the invasion has them. The sound of explosions, the silence of being stalked, the machine hum of killer robots. And then the sun comes up, and we are still here. Well, some of us.

Sometimes there are just...bodies. They aren't explained, they aren't commented on. Because no matter what, it's still better than before, when we were under the domination of the Espheni.

--Diary Entry, sunrise during a cold summer, some time after the defeat of the Espheni


WCD was shot and killed during the night. She was 西海岸ディッズ, a Dornian.
cayvie was killed during the night. She was Isabella, a Delusional Humanist. She was Human.

We killed cayvie. Why would the humanists kill their own player? Cayvie for sure didn't shoot himself

cayvie is a she.

[faust]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

When he resets, we all get one vote that we can't change, right?

No, only if he prevents a lynch.

[faust]

@mail-mi: We don't have many reasons for no NK last night, one of them is that you were shot and your Bulletproof blocked it. If e's factions decided to shoot you, don't you think they want you dead eventually? They already knew you were non-town.

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi: We don't have many reasons for no NK last night, one of them is that you were shot and your Bulletproof blocked it. If e's factions decided to shoot you, don't you think they want you dead eventually? They already knew you were non-town.

I mean, that is a possibility. Things are different today, though. Why would a redscum team want me dead now? I'm only a survivor at this point.

[faust]

@mail-mi: We don't have many reasons for no NK last night, one of them is that you were shot and your Bulletproof blocked it. If e's factions decided to shoot you, don't you think they want you dead eventually? They already knew you were non-town.

I mean, that is a possibility. Things are different today, though. Why would a redscum team want me dead now? I'm only a survivor at this point.

Why would a redscum have wanted you dead last night, when they had like 2-3 ICs to shoot?

[Uncleeurope]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

As far as I can tell, we are still on 2 votes, which would put my vote at L-2, not higher than L-2.

I need one more vote.

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, wait, Didds is alive, Didds an yell you guys that I soft-claimed being president in our private chat.

Don’t know if that matters to anyone.

I just reread, but I’m not seeing anything presidential. Can you direct me?

I said that me being invited to the thing could have been because of the flavor of my role, or something.

[skip wooznum]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

As far as I can tell, we are still on 2 votes, which would put my vote at L-2, not higher than L-2.

I need one more vote.

faust, e, and I are all voting you.

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi: We don't have many reasons for no NK last night, one of them is that you were shot and your Bulletproof blocked it. If e's factions decided to shoot you, don't you think they want you dead eventually? They already knew you were non-town.

I mean, that is a possibility. Things are different today, though. Why would a redscum team want me dead now? I'm only a survivor at this point.

Why would a redscum have wanted you dead last night, when they had like 2-3 ICs to shoot?

I don't know. It could be that I wasn't shot? You have a good point though. Why should I side with you instead of e?

[faust]

@mail-mi: We don't have many reasons for no NK last night, one of them is that you were shot and your Bulletproof blocked it. If e's factions decided to shoot you, don't you think they want you dead eventually? They already knew you were non-town.

I mean, that is a possibility. Things are different today, though. Why would a redscum team want me dead now? I'm only a survivor at this point.

Why would a redscum have wanted you dead last night, when they had like 2-3 ICs to shoot?

I don't know. It could be that I wasn't shot? You have a good point though. Why should I side with you instead of e?

You know we are town and have no hidden motives. I should think that makes us inherently more trustworthy. And we have a lock on the win here.

[faust]

It's also still a possibility that there is no red scumteam and e is yellow scum.

[Uncleeurope]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

As far as I can tell, we are still on 2 votes, which would put my vote at L-2, not higher than L-2.

I need one more vote.

faust, e, and I are all voting you.

I just reread the past 4 pages and I didn’t see it.

Where is e’s vote?

[Uncleeurope]

It's also still a possibility that there is no red scumteam and e is yellow scum.

In which case the space gambit is just funny.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, wait, Didds is alive, Didds an yell you guys that I soft-claimed being president in our private chat.

Don’t know if that matters to anyone.

I just reread, but I’m not seeing anything presidential. Can you direct me?

I said that me being invited to the thing could have been because of the flavor of my role, or something.

Ah, yes, you did say that you suspected you were invited because of flavor. I assumed we were different races of alien/humans

[WestCoastDidds]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

As far as I can tell, we are still on 2 votes, which would put my vote at L-2, not higher than L-2.

I need one more vote.

faust, e, and I are all voting you.

I think e is on space

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, wait, Didds is alive, Didds an yell you guys that I soft-claimed being president in our private chat.

Don’t know if that matters to anyone.

I just reread, but I’m not seeing anything presidential. Can you direct me?

I said that me being invited to the thing could have been because of the flavor of my role, or something.

Ah, yes, you did say that you suspected you were invited because of flavor. I assumed we were different races of alien/humans

Yeah, I realize it wasn’t strong, but that’s why I thought I was there initially. (Since no one else claimed)

And I had the powers to do with quorums and referendums.

[Uncleeurope]

I mean, if you would like to vote for me, Didds, I can just make it happen.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay vote: Eddie

[skip wooznum]

Can you self vote and reset the thing already?

As far as I can tell, we are still on 2 votes, which would put my vote at L-2, not higher than L-2.

I need one more vote.

faust, e, and I are all voting you.

I just reread the past 4 pages and I didn’t see it.

Where is e’s vote?

I must be going crazy....
My bad. I thought he voted you.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Uncleeurope

Dissolve a Quorum

Unvote (just in case there are shenanigans)

[Uncleeurope]

On that note, I am going to step away.

Sorry for behaving a bit aggressively, obviously don’t mean any ill will towards you, Faust. Well, obvious to me anyway... I was just bored while waiting for another vote, and writing out a string of question marks was something that I found to be mildly amusing.

[faust]

Kewl

Vote: Eddie

now for the other power.

[WestCoastDidds]

Unvote

Also fear the shenanigans

[skip wooznum]

Kewl

Vote: Eddie

now for the other power.

We have to make sure he has a chance to toggle it on.

[skip wooznum]

vote: edddie

[skip wooznum]

vote: eddie

[Uncleeurope]

Wait a sec, we need to wait to see if the first one worked, no?

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, I guess you only Needed one for proof, you just want both to fire.

Well, I have toggled the power on, so it will fire on whoever gets lynched. Knock yourselves out, or I guess, knock me out.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, I guess you only Needed one for proof, you just want both to fire.

Well, I have toggled the power on, so it will fire on whoever gets lynched. Knock yourselves out, or I guess, knock me out.

Eddie, will you please explain again how this works?

[Uncleeurope]

Once someone gets hammered, if I have toggled my power, the vote will get canceled (similar to what just happened) and then the day will continue.

But now everyone only gets 1 vote, and once it’s used, it can’t be undone.

And at the end of the day, the person with the most votes dies, regardless of the “5 vote” requirement.

I think that covers everything. There’s a bunch of other garbage about how the thing only works if I am not voting for the person in question, how I can also use it in the main thread, but then I can’t undo it, how if I use it in my QT but I vote for the person hammered I waste the shot, etc. but that stuff doesn’t really matter here.

[WestCoastDidds]

Once someone gets hammered, if I have toggled my power, the vote will get canceled (similar to what just happened) and then the day will continue.

But now everyone only gets 1 vote, and once it’s used, it can’t be undone.

And at the end of the day, the person with the most votes dies, regardless of the “5 vote” requirement.

I think that covers everything. There’s a bunch of other garbage about how the thing only works if I am not voting for the person in question, how I can also use it in the main thread, but then I can’t undo it, how if I use it in my QT but I vote for the person hammered I waste the shot, etc. but that stuff doesn’t really matter here.

So, if we get 5 votes on e, he isn’t lynched and we all revote?

[Uncleeurope]

Once someone gets hammered, if I have toggled my power, the vote will get canceled (similar to what just happened) and then the day will continue.

But now everyone only gets 1 vote, and once it’s used, it can’t be undone.

And at the end of the day, the person with the most votes dies, regardless of the “5 vote” requirement.

I think that covers everything. There’s a bunch of other garbage about how the thing only works if I am not voting for the person in question, how I can also use it in the main thread, but then I can’t undo it, how if I use it in my QT but I vote for the person hammered I waste the shot, etc. but that stuff doesn’t really matter here.

So, if we get 5 votes on e, he isn’t lynched and we all revote?

Yup.

[skip wooznum]

That's true. We could do it on e instead. @faust, does it matter?

[skip wooznum]

vote: e

[skip wooznum]

It will probably be quicker, because datswan is already voting there.

[skip wooznum]

It will probably be quicker, because datswan is already voting there.

Oh wait. He isn't, because it got reset.

[faust]

That's true. We could do it on e instead. @faust, does it matter?

Yes, because if Eddie is lying, he still has the power.

[Uncleeurope]

That's true. We could do it on e instead. @faust, does it matter?

Yes, because if Eddie is lying, he still has the power.

Awww, spoil sport.

[faust]

Probably not that important.

However we shouldn't all be so quick to place new votes before we have a vote count that confirms the reset.

[skip wooznum]

vote: eddie

But I still don't think it matters. Even if he has the power, we can lynch him twice tomorrow.

[Uncleeurope]

vote: eddie

But I still don't think it matters. Even if he has the power, we can lynch him twice tomorrow.

You just need to remember to give yourself time to do so.

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: eddie

But I still don't think it matters. Even if he has the power, we can lynch him twice tomorrow.

Other than confirming his power, I'm not much interested in lynching Eddie over e or EFHW

[WestCoastDidds]

Back to vote: e for now

[skip wooznum]

vote: eddie

But I still don't think it matters. Even if he has the power, we can lynch him twice tomorrow.

Other than confirming his power, I'm not much interested in lynching Eddie over e or EFHW

Agreed. Especially e.

[WestCoastDidds]

Its the middle of the night for Ash, so we'll be waiting for awhile on that confirmation.

[skip wooznum]

I would request a prod on space, but i feel like faust takes a certain enjoyment from prodding people, so I won't steal his thing.

[skip wooznum]

request faust to request prod on space

[2.71828.....]

Back to vote: e for now

I see you are volunteering to be Nk'ed again.

Because trust me, follow this route and you will be

[WestCoastDidds]

Back to vote: e for now

I see you are volunteering to be Nk'ed again.

Because trust me, follow this route and you will be

I mean, I guess if you want to let town win by killing off non-town people. It doesn't make much sense to me, but what do I know? That's the trade...I vote with you or I get killed?

Also, Swan hasn't checked in yet today, so I can't say that anything has been decided about our orientation.

[2.71828.....]

Back to vote: e for now

I see you are volunteering to be Nk'ed again.

Because trust me, follow this route and you will be

I mean, I guess if you want to let town win by killing off non-town people. It doesn't make much sense to me, but what do I know? That's the trade...I vote with you or I get killed?

Also, Swan hasn't checked in yet today, so I can't say that anything has been decided about our orientation.

Man, that's a really scummy situation for me to put you in.

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, I couldn't help myself with that one.

Joking aside, it's the clearest and easiest way for you to win

[2.71828.....]

There are also two other people that you aren't allowed to lynch, not naming names, but let's just go ahead and lynch space to be safe

[faust]

I would request a prod on space, but i feel like faust takes a certain enjoyment from prodding people, so I won't steal his thing.

It is actually fairly frustrating for me. I do it because it needs to be done.

[WestCoastDidds]

And if I don't vote with you, you will give up trying to win and just make sure I die? I just want to be sure of the terms you are setting up here

[WestCoastDidds]

Sorry, I couldn't help myself with that one.

Joking aside, it's the clearest and easiest way for you to win

Swan would have to convince me that he was certain that I hadn't been killed by the red team.  I am not certain. There were enough killers floating around (Shraeye, yams) that the kills came from them, and the shot and killed came from ya'll.

I don't see any way to test the theory than to let another NK happen.

[skip wooznum]

There are also two other people that you aren't allowed to lynch, not naming names, but let's just go ahead and lynch space to be safe

You're clearly lying. There are only two players who could possibly be your teammates. So if you say you have two teammates, you inherently are naming them.

I don't know why I'm bothering even....

[Swowl]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

So, if those three are scum

Swan, yams, and I are not scum

Faust, space, and skip are town

We need three more days to lynch all of them, they need three nights to kill all of you. So, if we lynch e then the three days happen sooner than the three nights, yeah?

Indeed.

catching up so this may have already been pointed out. Days happen sooner than nights, but in this game it is "win at daybreak" for town right? so the last night would still happen I believe (making it even).

[Swowl]

holy crap ya'll.... thats like 7 pages of shit.

OK - Eddie has used the power. we are waiting for a VC to confirm everything is reset. Then we all get one vote?
@Eddie - is that one shot toggle? Can you use it again later? Also, what is your other power. I cannot find the post.



@E! - The only way we are even going to consider this is if all three Mafia speak up. Then, it would be at least a consideration. But the chances of you being last remaining yellow, or like second purple... or just flat out only having 2 red mafia... A sure thing is a sure thing... but this is not a sure thing unless you can prove it.

[Swowl]

wtf is "yams"?

[faust]

OK - Eddie has used the power. we are waiting for a VC to confirm everything is reset. Then we all get one vote?

No, he used the other power. This power just reset the vote count, the other actually prevents a lynch. Supposedly.

[mail-mi]

wtf is "yams"?

It's me lol

[Swowl]

OK - Eddie has used the power. we are waiting for a VC to confirm everything is reset. Then we all get one vote?

No, he used the other power. This power just reset the vote count, the other actually prevents a lynch. Supposedly.

so he just straight up reset?
And the other power is the toggle on toggle off one where when we get to lynch.... what happens?

[Swowl]

wtf is "yams"?

It's me lol

I am staring at my keyboard... tryning to do a ven diagram of "Mail-Mi" and "Yams" lol

WCD do you have a cat or something?

Also, yeah your totally yams now hahah

[Swowl]

Also, I am not saying what it is right now because I am not like 100% certain... but pretty damn sure there is one other thing that E! just blatantly lied about.

[Uncleeurope]

holy crap ya'll.... thats like 7 pages of shit.

OK - Eddie has used the power. we are waiting for a VC to confirm everything is reset. Then we all get one vote?
@Eddie - is that one shot toggle? Can you use it again later? Also, what is your other power. I cannot find the post.



@E! - The only way we are even going to consider this is if all three Mafia speak up. Then, it would be at least a consideration. But the chances of you being last remaining yellow, or like second purple... or just flat out only having 2 red mafia... A sure thing is a sure thing... but this is not a sure thing unless you can prove it.

I know it’s confusing because I basically got the same power twice.

The one I used just resets a lynch back to all players not voting. (This one only works at L-1)

The one I am going to use in a bit cancels a hammer back to 0 voters, and then makes it so all players only have one vote remaining in the day. (This is the one I have to toggle, and once it happens I’m done)

[WestCoastDidds]

wtf is "yams"?

It's me lol

I am staring at my keyboard... tryning to do a ven diagram of "Mail-Mi" and "Yams" lol

WCD do you have a cat or something?

Also, yeah your totally yams now hahah

Two cats!  Scott and Brad.  But they had nothing to do with it.  The autocorrect was small-mi
small-mi then became llams-mi
a double LL makes a y sound so yam-mi
so, yams

It is almost as good as Eddie

[Swowl]

holy crap ya'll.... thats like 7 pages of shit.

OK - Eddie has used the power. we are waiting for a VC to confirm everything is reset. Then we all get one vote?
@Eddie - is that one shot toggle? Can you use it again later? Also, what is your other power. I cannot find the post.



@E! - The only way we are even going to consider this is if all three Mafia speak up. Then, it would be at least a consideration. But the chances of you being last remaining yellow, or like second purple... or just flat out only having 2 red mafia... A sure thing is a sure thing... but this is not a sure thing unless you can prove it.

I know it’s confusing because I basically got the same power twice.

The one I used just resets a lynch back to all players not voting. (This one only works at L-1)

The one I am going to use in a bit cancels a hammer back to 0 voters, and then makes it so all players only have one vote remaining in the day. (This is the one I have to toggle, and once it happens I’m done)

why are you using these powers? Is there no way you can think of that makes them moreuseful later on? Like I mean we already have a skum claim today lol

Also, all 1 shots?

[Uncleeurope]

holy crap ya'll.... thats like 7 pages of shit.

OK - Eddie has used the power. we are waiting for a VC to confirm everything is reset. Then we all get one vote?
@Eddie - is that one shot toggle? Can you use it again later? Also, what is your other power. I cannot find the post.



@E! - The only way we are even going to consider this is if all three Mafia speak up. Then, it would be at least a consideration. But the chances of you being last remaining yellow, or like second purple... or just flat out only having 2 red mafia... A sure thing is a sure thing... but this is not a sure thing unless you can prove it.

I know it’s confusing because I basically got the same power twice.

The one I used just resets a lynch back to all players not voting. (This one only works at L-1)

The one I am going to use in a bit cancels a hammer back to 0 voters, and then makes it so all players only have one vote remaining in the day. (This is the one I have to toggle, and once it happens I’m done)

why are you using these powers? Is there no way you can think of that makes them moreuseful later on? Like I mean we already have a skum claim today lol

Also, all 1 shots?

This is not my choice, I am being bullied.

The only use I can see was eliminated once it was revealed that I had the power.

I could technically force a no lynch, but that’s game losing in a lot of cases.

And yes, all one shots.

[Swowl]

Who is bullying you?

I can actually think of a way that the ability you have not used could prove potentially useful. Stating it would kind of ruin it before it was time to do it... but I mean I saw faust ask for you to verify. So I guess whatever, and I get how after you claim and all there is no point.

I mean - the main thing - and I am just being straight forward here... you using your abilities does not make you town. so if you are town, probably just be super duper sure you can't use that other power in a good way somehow. Because once you use it, I promise you it ain't gonna make you an IC.

[Uncleeurope]

Who is bullying you?

I can actually think of a way that the ability you have not used could prove potentially useful. Stating it would kind of ruin it before it was time to do it... but I mean I saw faust ask for you to verify. So I guess whatever, and I get how after you claim and all there is no point.

I mean - the main thing - and I am just being straight forward here... you using your abilities does not make you town. so if you are town, probably just be super duper sure you can't use that other power in a good way somehow. Because once you use it, I promise you it ain't gonna make you an IC.

Lol, nothing that has happened today has lead me to think people see me as an IC. I’m not an idiot.

And yes, there are ways it is useful (in a golden world where people aren’t paying attention), but it is also useful for scum, so I am not allowed to have it. It doesn’t matter what I think. Or what I am super duper sure of.

The people voting for me to die are the “bullies” by the way. Because I am going to use my powers for self preservation. Because, again, it ain’t my choice to use them here. In my world, I want to keep it to have as many options as possible.

Also, are we just done with the full claims? Didn’t Faust have something extra to add?

[Swowl]

Who is bullying you?

I can actually think of a way that the ability you have not used could prove potentially useful. Stating it would kind of ruin it before it was time to do it... but I mean I saw faust ask for you to verify. So I guess whatever, and I get how after you claim and all there is no point.

I mean - the main thing - and I am just being straight forward here... you using your abilities does not make you town. so if you are town, probably just be super duper sure you can't use that other power in a good way somehow. Because once you use it, I promise you it ain't gonna make you an IC.

Lol, nothing that has happened today has lead me to think people see me as an IC. I’m not an idiot.

And yes, there are ways it is useful (in a golden world where people aren’t paying attention), but it is also useful for scum, so I am not allowed to have it. It doesn’t matter what I think. Or what I am super duper sure of.

The people voting for me to die are the “bullies” by the way. Because I am going to use my powers for self preservation. Because, again, it ain’t my choice to use them here. In my world, I want to keep it to have as many options as possible.

Also, are we just done with the full claims? Didn’t Faust have something extra to add?

faust said they changed their mind at this point.
Which, given E! skum... I am find with today. Assuming they are not keeping a claim of info to themselves and it is just a part of their role... they can just claim tomorrow if not killed.

[Uncleeurope]

I am not seeing Faust changing his mind.

But, hey, I can lynch e, lessgo.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am not seeing Faust changing his mind.

But, hey, I can lynch e, lessgo.

I didn't see that either....

[EFHW]

Hi, my name is EFHW and I am evil. [pause for Eddie's dance]

My partners and I invite the Dornians to join us in mutually assured victory or die an ignoble death.

The only way you can win is to vote with us. We didn't kill Didds. Even though we can't prove that yet, you still have no other choice but to join us in order to fulfill your wincon. If you don't join us, we will all lose together.

We have the power to do two kills in one night under certain specific circumstances. But we don't need that to win. We just need majority votes.

Really, why not win if you can?

vote: Space

[Uncleeurope]

Hi, my name is EFHW and I am evil. [pause for Eddie's dance]

My partners and I invite the Dornians to join us in mutually assured victory or die an ignoble death.

The only way you can win is to vote with us. We didn't kill Didds. Even though we can't prove that yet, you still have no other choice but to join us in order to fulfill your wincon. If you don't join us, we will all lose together.

We have the power to do two kills in one night under certain specific circumstances. But we don't need that to win. We just need majority votes.

Really, why not win if you can?

vote: Space

Yay, look, I was right again.

[mail-mi]

I am the third partner.

Everything that e and EFHW have said is true. Didds and Swan, with you two on our sides, we have the numbers to take over this town. Either we win together, or my partners and I will spend our last two nights killing you.

We do not shoot and kill. Cayvie claimed to do that, and the night that WCD died cayvie died as well. We killed cayvie and LaLight.

Join us.

vote: space

[Uncleeurope]

I am the third partner.

Everything that e and EFHW have said is true. Didds and Swan, with you two on our sides, we have the numbers to take over this town. Either we win together, or my partners and I will spend our last two nights killing you.

We do not shoot and kill. Cayvie claimed to do that, and the night that WCD died cayvie died as well. We killed cayvie and LaLight.

Join us.

vote: space

Bahaha, look at that, I am on fire.

[Swowl]

1) did you plan this pre claim?
2) do you have day chat?
3) have you all been aware of your teammates from the beginning of the game?

[Swowl]

I am not seeing Faust changing his mind.

But, hey, I can lynch e, lessgo.

I didn't see that either....

we hold more sway than faust does.
your holding the power for a second please.

[Swowl]

4) who did you target last night?

[Swowl]

cuz it sure as shit wasn't efoo

[SpaceAnemone]

request faust to request prod on space

I'm here!! Work exploded and I barely got a break today, so I've just had 30 minutes to get up to date on the past 24+ hours, and now I'm still a bit confused :-P

[Swowl]

request faust to request prod on space

I'm here!! Work exploded and I barely got a break today, so I've just had 30 minutes to get up to date on the past 24+ hours, and now I'm still a bit confused :-P

WCD and I are survivors
skum team claimed all 3 members.
the world is on fire.
GO! (lol)

[SpaceAnemone]

@WCD: I know some players may have immunity to the thing you gave me, but I don't know who. I assume you're paying a lot of attention to aliens vs humans because it only works on one or the other?

[skip wooznum]

*Throws up hands*

So this game started with 5 town out of 14?? I don't even care if we lose at this point honestly. This game was unfair. Didds and swan, do what you want. They won't actually shoot you obviously, but whatever. Like, a third of town was actually town!!

vote: efhw

for eddie

I can't even

[Swowl]

@WCD: I know some players may have immunity to the thing you gave me, but I don't know who. I assume you're paying a lot of attention to aliens vs humans because it only works on one or the other?

that was me not WCD - we said it earlier but like you said behind, so just catching you up - I see no point in lying. I do not know how to help without giving too much info away. Gimme a second. But yes, it only works on one or the other.

[SpaceAnemone]

request faust to request prod on space

I'm here!! Work exploded and I barely got a break today, so I've just had 30 minutes to get up to date on the past 24+ hours, and now I'm still a bit confused :-P

WCD and I are survivors
skum team claimed all 3 members.
the world is on fire.
GO! (lol)

Yeah, I've had yams coloured red on my who's-a-scum VC lists for like an IRL week already, and the calls on EFHW were beginning to gather a little weight. I thought that e was nicely under the radar till his claim, though.

PPE: I think I can make an educated guess, based on a thing. I just wanted to confirm.

[SpaceAnemone]

*Throws up hands*

So this game started with 5 town out of 14?? I don't even care if we lose at this point honestly. This game was unfair. Didds and swan, do what you want. They won't actually shoot you obviously, but whatever. Like, a third of town was actually town!!

vote: efhw

for eddie

I can't even

Do we need to be really careful about throwing votes around now in case of shenanigans with Eddie's power?

[Swowl]

request faust to request prod on space

I'm here!! Work exploded and I barely got a break today, so I've just had 30 minutes to get up to date on the past 24+ hours, and now I'm still a bit confused :-P

WCD and I are survivors
skum team claimed all 3 members.
the world is on fire.
GO! (lol)

Yeah, I've had yams coloured red on my who's-a-scum VC lists for like an IRL week already, and the calls on EFHW were beginning to gather a little weight. I thought that e was nicely under the radar till his claim, though.

PPE: I think I can make an educated guess, based on a thing. I just wanted to confirm.

fantastic - just yes or no obv.
Assuming you shoot one of these three, is it clear to you rn which one is the best choice?

[Swowl]

*Throws up hands*

So this game started with 5 town out of 14?? I don't even care if we lose at this point honestly. This game was unfair. Didds and swan, do what you want. They won't actually shoot you obviously, but whatever. Like, a third of town was actually town!!

vote: efhw

for eddie

I can't even

Do we need to be really careful about throwing votes around now in case of shenanigans with Eddie's power?

we got 3 claimed skum homie - I think Eddie prob town at this point.

[SpaceAnemone]

*Throws up hands*

So this game started with 5 town out of 14?? I don't even care if we lose at this point honestly. This game was unfair. Didds and swan, do what you want. They won't actually shoot you obviously, but whatever. Like, a third of town was actually town!!

vote: efhw

for eddie

I can't even

Do we need to be really careful about throwing votes around now in case of shenanigans with Eddie's power?

we got 3 claimed skum homie - I think Eddie prob town at this point.

I'm more just concerned about the possible only-one-vote rule spreading votes thin to the point where I'm the lynch that scum all agrees on :-P

[Uncleeurope]

request faust to request prod on space

I'm here!! Work exploded and I barely got a break today, so I've just had 30 minutes to get up to date on the past 24+ hours, and now I'm still a bit confused :-P

WCD and I are survivors
skum team claimed all 3 members.
the world is on fire.
GO! (lol)

Yeah, I've had yams coloured red on my who's-a-scum VC lists for like an IRL week already, and the calls on EFHW were beginning to gather a little weight. I thought that e was nicely under the radar till his claim, though.

PPE: I think I can make an educated guess, based on a thing. I just wanted to confirm.

fantastic - just yes or no obv.
Assuming you shoot one of these three, is it clear to you rn which one is the best choice?

suddenly intent

[Uncleeurope]

*Throws up hands*

So this game started with 5 town out of 14?? I don't even care if we lose at this point honestly. This game was unfair. Didds and swan, do what you want. They won't actually shoot you obviously, but whatever. Like, a third of town was actually town!!

vote: efhw

for eddie

I can't even

Do we need to be really careful about throwing votes around now in case of shenanigans with Eddie's power?

we got 3 claimed skum homie - I think Eddie prob town at this point.

I'm more just concerned about the possible only-one-vote rule spreading votes thin to the point where I'm the lynch that scum all agrees on :-P

It only triggers when someone is lynched.

[Swowl]

request faust to request prod on space

I'm here!! Work exploded and I barely got a break today, so I've just had 30 minutes to get up to date on the past 24+ hours, and now I'm still a bit confused :-P

WCD and I are survivors
skum team claimed all 3 members.
the world is on fire.
GO! (lol)

Yeah, I've had yams coloured red on my who's-a-scum VC lists for like an IRL week already, and the calls on EFHW were beginning to gather a little weight. I thought that e was nicely under the radar till his claim, though.

PPE: I think I can make an educated guess, based on a thing. I just wanted to confirm.

fantastic - just yes or no obv.
Assuming you shoot one of these three, is it clear to you rn which one is the best choice?

suddenly intent

i do not understand what this is implying.

[Uncleeurope]

Nothin’

Carry on.

[SpaceAnemone]

request faust to request prod on space

I'm here!! Work exploded and I barely got a break today, so I've just had 30 minutes to get up to date on the past 24+ hours, and now I'm still a bit confused :-P

WCD and I are survivors
skum team claimed all 3 members.
the world is on fire.
GO! (lol)

Yeah, I've had yams coloured red on my who's-a-scum VC lists for like an IRL week already, and the calls on EFHW were beginning to gather a little weight. I thought that e was nicely under the radar till his claim, though.

PPE: I think I can make an educated guess, based on a thing. I just wanted to confirm.

fantastic - just yes or no obv.
Assuming you shoot one of these three, is it clear to you rn which one is the best choice?

Not entirely! I see that e and yams have claimed human quite openly, but I assume everyone might be bluffing.

PPE 2

[Swowl]

also - team skum - while we gotta weigh win cons, please note you threats fall on deaf ears. You would never kill one of us instead of town. like - you off 2 town at night and bring this up again tomorrow even with one of you lynched... we kind of have to agree with you at that point. 6 alive. 2 skum. 2 survivors. 2 Town. you can kill. town can't. why in the hell is that not the route that you took?

[Swowl]

Space - you started the day saying you got a bad thing. how bad is the bad thing? like concerning enough to be a factor?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.5:

uncle (1): faust
2.7 (1): WCD
Space (2): EFHW, mail-mi
EFHW (1): skip

Not Voting (4): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, uncleeurope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Swan, nope, I'll say more on that tomorrow if I'm still breathing :-)

Also, my access tomorrow is going to be similar to today, at least in the daytime parts of my day (so up to ~2pm forum time). It also means I'm exceedingly short on time now because I need to be have been asleep by one minute ago...

[WestCoastDidds]

We still don’t have answers to these questions, red team
1) did you plan this pre claim?
2) do you have day chat?
3) have you all been aware of your teammates from the beginning of the game?
4) who did you target last night

[SpaceAnemone]

Ah, fantastic, you're here, Didds! Any last comments before I trigger the thing you gave me?

[SpaceAnemone]

I figure with patchy access and the volume of stuff that may be going on between now and the next time I'm free, I should do it before I sleep...

[skip wooznum]

Ah, fantastic, you're here, Didds! Any last comments before I trigger the thing you gave me?

I, for one, am pro-all triggering of things. "Fire at will" is my motto.

[skip wooznum]

I figure with patchy access and the volume of stuff that may be going on between now and the next time I'm free, I should do it before I sleep...

Yes

[WestCoastDidds]

Ah, fantastic, you're here, Didds! Any last comments before I trigger the thing you gave me?

It’s actually from Swan, but that doesn’t matter. It is only useful for aliens. Are scum aliens? I don’t know...

[SpaceAnemone]

Ah, fantastic, you're here, Didds! Any last comments before I trigger the thing you gave me?

It’s actually from Swan, but that doesn’t matter. It is only useful for aliens. Are scum aliens? I don’t know...

* the thing y'all gave me :-)

A dear friend of mine has a partner who's from Georgia (the state, not the country) who says y'all a lot, so we're trying to addopt it a bit. It's kind of funny when said with my mixed-up accent and my friend's strong French accent :-P

[WestCoastDidds]

Mail-mi is the hunter, we don’t know e’s name since he used Skips human name, and I don’t remember what EFHW said, but I think it was a Mason.

[Swowl]

Ah, fantastic, you're here, Didds! Any last comments before I trigger the thing you gave me?

woah wait up! can you use it at anytime??

[WestCoastDidds]

Y’all is awesome! Gender inclusive and friendly!

xoxo

[EFHW]

We still don’t have answers to these questions, red team
1) did you plan this pre claim?
2) do you have day chat?
3) have you all been aware of your teammates from the beginning of the game?
4) who did you target last night

Planned after e got counterclaimed, or thereabouts. Yes. Yes. Space.

[EFHW]

also - team skum - while we gotta weigh win cons, please note you threats fall on deaf ears. You would never kill one of us instead of town. like - you off 2 town at night and bring this up again tomorrow even with one of you lynched... we kind of have to agree with you at that point. 6 alive. 2 skum. 2 survivors. 2 Town. you can kill. town can't. why in the hell is that not the route that you took?

Why wait? Who do you think we were going to be able to mislynch? The double kill is only under certain circumstances, so we can't count on it.

I don't know why you think we wouldn't kill you. We're evil, remember?

[Swowl]

also - team skum - while we gotta weigh win cons, please note you threats fall on deaf ears. You would never kill one of us instead of town. like - you off 2 town at night and bring this up again tomorrow even with one of you lynched... we kind of have to agree with you at that point. 6 alive. 2 skum. 2 survivors. 2 Town. you can kill. town can't. why in the hell is that not the route that you took?

Why wait? Who do you think we were going to be able to mislynch? The double kill is only under certain circumstances, so we can't count on it.

I don't know why you think we wouldn't kill you. We're evil, remember?

fair enough. I am just trying to determine a level of certainty that we actually win with you..

[Swowl]

the thing is you had to know that our concern would be that "we win with you" as in the person that killed cayvie also is dead.
And that is, tbf, our concern.
But like why not wait for tomorrow?
You could of let E go, got 2 kills on town, we see the flavor... and then there is literally no reason for us to not believe you.
This seems just... off.

[EFHW]

the thing is you had to know that our concern would be that "we win with you" as in the person that killed cayvie also is dead.
And that is, tbf, our concern.
But like why not wait for tomorrow?
You could of let E go, got 2 kills on town, we see the flavor... and then there is literally no reason for us to not believe you.
This seems just... off.

No guarantee on the two kills, remember? And you don't have to believe anything except that we will kill you. If you side with town, killing you is as good as killing town.

[WestCoastDidds]

So, here’s the thing. We don’t have any reason to believe that you aren’t the shooters. There is no evidence that cayvie shoots and kills. For all we know, that was Shraeye who killed (he had the purple SK color.) while you all are shooting and killing.

There hasn’t been a kill after Shraeye died.

This is critical to us winning and I don’t see how we make any kind of deal without confirmation of that. But I know this presents an issue. The only way to prove it is to NK.

I see the math being the same tomorrow as it is now. We lynch red, you NK green. Now we know what your kill look like and we can talk about winning.

[Swowl]

the thing is you had to know that our concern would be that "we win with you" as in the person that killed cayvie also is dead.
And that is, tbf, our concern.
But like why not wait for tomorrow?
You could of let E go, got 2 kills on town, we see the flavor... and then there is literally no reason for us to not believe you.
This seems just... off.

I mean if you have two kills, that is strictly not accurate. but there is little point in arguing more than what I have.

No guarantee on the two kills, remember? And you don't have to believe anything except that we will kill you. If you side with town, killing you is as good as killing town.

[WestCoastDidds]

the thing is you had to know that our concern would be that "we win with you" as in the person that killed cayvie also is dead.
And that is, tbf, our concern.
But like why not wait for tomorrow?
You could of let E go, got 2 kills on town, we see the flavor... and then there is literally no reason for us to not believe you.
This seems just... off.

Ha! We say the same thing with different words

[mail-mi]

So, here’s the thing. We don’t have any reason to believe that you aren’t the shooters. There is no evidence that cayvie shoots and kills. For all we know, that was Shraeye who killed (he had the purple SK color.) while you all are shooting and killing.

There hasn’t been a kill after Shraeye died.

This is critical to us winning and I don’t see how we make any kind of deal without confirmation of that. But I know this presents an issue. The only way to prove it is to NK.

I see the math being the same tomorrow as it is now. We lynch red, you NK green. Now we know what your kill look like and we can talk about winning.

We do have evidence. Cayvie knew she shot MiX on the first night. He was shot and killed. We killed LaLight. He was not shot and killed.

[WestCoastDidds]

So, here’s the thing. We don’t have any reason to believe that you aren’t the shooters. There is no evidence that cayvie shoots and kills. For all we know, that was Shraeye who killed (he had the purple SK color.) while you all are shooting and killing.

There hasn’t been a kill after Shraeye died.

This is critical to us winning and I don’t see how we make any kind of deal without confirmation of that. But I know this presents an issue. The only way to prove it is to NK.

I see the math being the same tomorrow as it is now. We lynch red, you NK green. Now we know what your kill look like and we can talk about winning.

We do have evidence. Cayvie knew she shot MiX on the first night. He was shot and killed. We killed LaLight. He was not shot and killed.

I’m assuming cayvie was lying. Did y’all redirect her? I’m on my phone so I do t have it front of me, but I remember it all being wonky and suspicious

[EFHW]

So, here’s the thing. We don’t have any reason to believe that you aren’t the shooters. There is no evidence that cayvie shoots and kills. For all we know, that was Shraeye who killed (he had the purple SK color.) while you all are shooting and killing.

There hasn’t been a kill after Shraeye died.

This is critical to us winning and I don’t see how we make any kind of deal without confirmation of that. But I know this presents an issue. The only way to prove it is to NK.

I see the math being the same tomorrow as it is now. We lynch red, you NK green. Now we know what your kill look like and we can talk about winning.

We do have evidence. Cayvie knew she shot MiX on the first night. He was shot and killed. We killed LaLight. He was not shot and killed.

I’m assuming cayvie was lying. Did y’all redirect her? I’m on my phone so I do t have it front of me, but I remember it all being wonky and suspicious

Yes, we redirected everyone randomly.

[WestCoastDidds]

You’re holding us hostage and demanding that we trust you.
But if you killed me, then we’re signing up to lose.

So, here is the question. Why the rush? Why not let us see a NK and then we strike a deal. The rush makes it feel like this is the only time you can make the deal because we will discover you are shooters.

[EFHW]

the thing is you had to know that our concern would be that "we win with you" as in the person that killed cayvie also is dead.
And that is, tbf, our concern.
But like why not wait for tomorrow?
You could of let E go, got 2 kills on town, we see the flavor... and then there is literally no reason for us to not believe you.
This seems just... off.

Ha! We say the same thing with different words

Because this game is really unpredictable. If we join with you today and lynch town, we can weather losing the nk, even a resurrection, without losing.

[EFHW]

Didds, did cayvie know you were an alien? Because that would give her motive to shoot you. There wasn't reason for us to shoot you. We were hoping to lynch you.

We can kill you tonight and then the survivor can see the flip. Do you want to do that?

[EFHW]

You’re holding us hostage and demanding that we trust you.
But if you killed me, then we’re signing up to lose.

So, here is the question. Why the rush? Why not let us see a NK and then we strike a deal. The rush makes it feel like this is the only time you can make the deal because we will discover you are shooters.

We're not asking you to trust us. The only thing you need to believe, and you should, is that we will kill you if you don't join us. Dastardly, mean, scummy, I know. Sucks. But you get to win!

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, did cayvie know you were an alien? Because that would give her motive to shoot you. There wasn't reason for us to shoot you. We were hoping to lynch you.

We can kill you tonight and then the survivor can see the flip. Do you want to do that?

Swan, what do you think about this?

[WestCoastDidds]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

[EFHW]

We had to do it today because we need two nights to carry out our threat.

PPE: You definitely don't win if we kill you.

[EFHW]

Didds, did cayvie know you were an alien? Because that would give her motive to shoot you. There wasn't reason for us to shoot you. We were hoping to lynch you.

We can kill you tonight and then the survivor can see the flip. Do you want to do that?

Swan, what do you think about this?

That wasn't a real offer.  The plan doesn't work if we do that and you lynch one of us, so we'll just go on to kill you the next night, too.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, did cayvie know you were an alien? Because that would give her motive to shoot you. There wasn't reason for us to shoot you. We were hoping to lynch you.

We can kill you tonight and then the survivor can see the flip. Do you want to do that?

Swan, what do you think about this?

That wasn't a real offer.  The plan doesn't work if we do that and you lynch one of us, so we'll just go on to kill you the next night, too.

Good point! It’s late...(by late I mean 8:45) but homeschool for a 5th grader wears on the soul

[WestCoastDidds]

Skip... you have any more gifts to give?

Faust, Eddie, Space...what do you think of this?

Is there a scenario where town can win and a Dornian is alive?

[WestCoastDidds]

I gotta tap out for tonight, but I’ll be back in the morning

[skip wooznum]

Skip... you have any more gifts to give?

Faust, Eddie, Space...what do you think of this?

Is there a scenario where town can win and a Dornian is alive?

I don't know my exact gift situation.

Space already shot one of them hopefully. Then we lynch one today, one tomorrow, and they can only shoot once. Also, even if they shoot twice they wouldn't shoot you. Also, I don't really care what you do or if I win. This game was unfair from the start. We lynched scum two out of three days and we're still in this position. So do what you want. Nhf

[mail-mi]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

[Swowl]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

heres the thing man. if we side with you. lynch space. that is 3 town 3 skum, and 2 of us.

you could just kill us anyways and win.

[Swowl]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

and more importantly, why would you need two nights? I thought you would get two kills?

[mail-mi]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

and more importantly, why would you need two nights? I thought you would get two kills?

Only if certain conditions are met. We've said this, like, 4 times now.

[mail-mi]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

heres the thing man. if we side with you. lynch space. that is 3 town 3 skum, and 2 of us.

you could just kill us anyways and win.

Why would we kill you at that point? Then we kill town, and you win with us.

[EFHW]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

heres the thing man. if we side with you. lynch space. that is 3 town 3 skum, and 2 of us.

you could just kill us anyways and win.

Why would we kill you at that point? Then we kill town, and you win with us.

Yeah, we're not THAT scummy .

[mail-mi]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

heres the thing man. if we side with you. lynch space. that is 3 town 3 skum, and 2 of us.

you could just kill us anyways and win.

Why would we kill you at that point? Then we kill town, and you win with us.

Yeah, we're not THAT scummy .

You help us lynch town, you win with us. You lynch one of us, you lose with us. It's that simple

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.6:

uncle (1): faust
2.7 (1): WCD
Space (2): EFHW, mail-mi
EFHW (1): skip

Not Voting (4): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, uncleeurope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[skip wooznum]

vote: e

[faust]

Vote: e

[faust]

Space, Eddie - quick while Didds is still voting there!

[faust]

Didds - just pretend you're not around. If you didn't explicitly decide to side wit town, then they have no reason to exact revenge.

[faust]

Faust, Eddie, Space...what do you think of this?

I still have skip's gift and an unclaimed power. That's all I can say here to convince you.

[skip wooznum]

Where is eddie in the world? I feel like he'll get here before didds. Space, otoh, is almost never here at all.

[faust]

Where is eddie in the world? I feel like he'll get here before didds. Space, otoh, is almost never here at all.

Not sure where he is, but if we're going off yesterday then he'll be around in about 2 hours.

[Swowl]

Of course we only get to win if you aren’t the ones who killed me

We didn't kill you. You don't vote with us, we spend the next two nights killing you and Swan. It's blackmail, but we're scummy scum.

and more importantly, why would you need two nights? I thought you would get two kills?

Only if certain conditions are met. We've said this, like, 4 times now.

I assume those conditions are to see Space dead?

[Swowl]

faust. are you here?

[faust]

faust. are you here?

I'm here.

[Swowl]

faust. are you here?

I'm here.

I need to know what you can do.

[faust]

No.

[EFHW]

Didds - just pretend you're not around. If you didn't explicitly decide to side wit town, then they have no reason to exact revenge.

Not so

[Swowl]

ok... do you have the ability to help me/wcd in any way?

[2.71828.....]

faust can't do anything to help you, it is all false bravado

[Swowl]

Didds - just pretend you're not around. If you didn't explicitly decide to side wit town, then they have no reason to exact revenge.

Not so

so you can say it is not so 100000 times. but it is so. you may choose to just spite kill us. fine. but seriously, it has been an impactful day but look at the logic. You cannot possibly argue the fact that based on the information you have provided that in this scenario killing us is equal or greater to you in value than killing town.

Well you could... but it would mean you are lying about something.

[Swowl]

faust - I am not trying to angle here. I wanna win. The likelihood that we win with either faction is about equal except IDK if they are full of it or not. Can you just work with me here. I would much rather side with people I am essentially certain are telling the truth than the other way around.

[faust]

ok... do you have the ability to help me/wcd in any way?

I believe so, but it won't be as useful if I reveal it.

[Swowl]

If I told you that if I die you die as well, how useful is it?

[2.71828.....]

faust - I am not trying to angle here. I wanna win. The likelihood that we win with either faction is about equal except IDK if they are full of it or not. Can you just work with me here. I would much rather side with people I am essentially certain are telling the truth than the other way around.

faust has proven he will lie if he thinks it furthers his town win con.

No different than scum. He just wants his faction to win

[2.71828.....]

Case study: shraeye

[faust]

Case study: shraeye

I didn't lie about anything with shraeye.

[Swowl]

Case study: shraeye

? he was right about shraeye

[Swowl]

Case study: shraeye

I didn't lie about anything with shraeye.

this

[faust]

If I told you that if I die you die as well, how useful is it?

It's useful. But I cannot promise that it will save you.

[2.71828.....]

We as mafia have zero reason to lie. Like, we claimed mafia. There is nothing left that we have to hide.

AMA

[2.71828.....]

Case study: shraeye

? he was right about shraeye

Yes, he was right. Which furthered his town win con

The blackmail bit was the lie

[faust]

We as mafia have zero reason to lie. Like, we claimed mafia. There is nothing left that we have to hide.

AMA

What are the condition on your nightkill?

[faust]

Case study: shraeye

? he was right about shraeye

Yes, he was right. Which furthered his town win con

The blackmail bit was the lie

It wasn't.

[faust]

Honestly this is silly, ash should call this game as a tie with the Dornians winning.

[faust]

That is, if scum and Dornians are telling the truth.

[Swowl]

Honestly this is silly, ash should call this game as a tie with the Dornians winning.

you played the same game with me when I did the shit as survivor. you are aware that if someone wasn't lying right now ash would of already called it. save the ate.

[Swowl]

ok ppe the previous you got there.

[2.71828.....]

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

[2.71828.....]

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

This was true? Shraeye would be mod-killed or killed by you if he did not publicly say you were town?

[Swowl]

I'm having discussions with faust.  I want to make it clear that he told me  "say I'm green or you will die".

This goes against my Survivor wincon.  So I did as told.

dude. you claimed skum. faust is town lol you don't need to make a case. I know what happened. I think he told the truth. He will also do what he has to to win. So will you, so will anyone.

[faust]

Honestly this is silly, ash should call this game as a tie with the Dornians winning.

you played the same game with me when I did the shit as survivor. you are aware that if someone wasn't lying right now ash would of already called it. save the ate.

I don't know that. Like it's a difficult decision, which I get, and mods would react to it differently. Even if noone is lying, noone knows that noone is lying, and from that angle it makes sense to play it out.

[2.71828.....]

We as mafia have zero reason to lie. Like, we claimed mafia. There is nothing left that we have to hide.

AMA

What are the condition on your nightkill?

There are no conditions. We can "whack" anyone we want

[Swowl]

Honestly this is silly, ash should call this game as a tie with the Dornians winning.

you played the same game with me when I did the shit as survivor. you are aware that if someone wasn't lying right now ash would of already called it. save the ate.

I don't know that. Like it's a difficult decision, which I get, and mods would react to it differently. Even if noone is lying, noone knows that noone is lying, and from that angle it makes sense to play it out.

not true. skum would know if skum was lying and WCD/me would know if we are lying.

[Swowl]

E! - Re confirm to me that 0% of your faction is Alien

[2.71828.....]

E! - Re confirm to me that 0% of your faction is Alien

We are zero aliens

[Swowl]

E! - Re confirm to me that 0% of your faction is Alien

We are zero aliens

lie

[Swowl]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

[2.71828.....]

E! - Re confirm to me that 0% of your faction is Alien

We are zero aliens

lie

??

Then my fellow mafia lied to me in our qt

[2.71828.....]

I randomized all non-mafia actions N1. Did you get a alien-cop result that night?

[EFHW]

We as mafia have zero reason to lie. Like, we claimed mafia. There is nothing left that we have to hide.

AMA

What are the condition on your nightkill?

Not met.

[faust]

Honestly this is silly, ash should call this game as a tie with the Dornians winning.

you played the same game with me when I did the shit as survivor. you are aware that if someone wasn't lying right now ash would of already called it. save the ate.

I don't know that. Like it's a difficult decision, which I get, and mods would react to it differently. Even if noone is lying, noone knows that noone is lying, and from that angle it makes sense to play it out.

not true. skum would know if skum was lying and WCD/me would know if we are lying.

Yes, but you don't know whether each other is lying.

[faust]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

[Swowl]

I randomized all non-mafia actions N1. Did you get a alien-cop result that night?

see this is why I do not trust you. you said you randomized ALL actions. not all NON MAFIA actions.

[2.71828.....]

I am Jimmy Numbers
mail-mi is Boss
EFHW is Tiny

we were given fake names of John Pope and Ben Mason

We are all human

[Swowl]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

me and didds are one on this I promise you. If she comes on and tells me otherwise and to go E I will support E. I am not trying to divert a lynch.

[skip wooznum]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

same

[Swowl]

I am Jimmy Numbers
mail-mi is Boss
EFHW is Tiny

we were given fake names of John Pope and Ben Mason

We are all human

why did you fuck up your claim?

[2.71828.....]

I randomized all non-mafia actions N1. Did you get a alien-cop result that night?

see this is why I do not trust you. you said you randomized ALL actions. not all NON MAFIA actions.

I did?

[Swowl]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

same

also neither of you are in a position to negotiate here so chill it. I am trying to work with you.

[2.71828.....]

I am Jimmy Numbers
mail-mi is Boss
EFHW is Tiny

we were given fake names of John Pope and Ben Mason

We are all human

why did you fuck up your claim?

we only had two fake flavor names...

I overreached myself is what it comes down to.

[Swowl]

I randomized all non-mafia actions N1. Did you get a alien-cop result that night?

see this is why I do not trust you. you said you randomized ALL actions. not all NON MAFIA actions.

I did?

one of you did.

[faust]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

me and didds are one on this I promise you. If she comes on and tells me otherwise and to go E I will support E. I am not trying to divert a lynch.

If you're telling the truth here, then you are in no hurry. Likely Didds will return before Space. But I have to take the route that is safest for my faction.

[Swowl]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

me and didds are one on this I promise you. If she comes on and tells me otherwise and to go E I will support E. I am not trying to divert a lynch.

If you're telling the truth here, then you are in no hurry. Likely Didds will return before Space. But I have to take the route that is safest for my faction.

you see me voting for anyone right now champ?

[Swowl]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

me and didds are one on this I promise you. If she comes on and tells me otherwise and to go E I will support E. I am not trying to divert a lynch.

If you're telling the truth here, then you are in no hurry. Likely Didds will return before Space. But I have to take the route that is safest for my faction.

you see me voting for anyone right now champ?

Didds will come back and say the same as I am, I am just trying to clarify that you will lynch Skum B instead of Skum A if needed.

[2.71828.....]

1) did you plan this pre claim?
2) do you have day chat?
3) have you all been aware of your teammates from the beginning of the game?

we have day chat

and we have all shared a qt from the beginning, no traitors or such

[faust]

Didds will come back and say the same as I am, I am just trying to clarify that you will lynch Skum B instead of Skum A if needed.

And I will happily do that once Didds returns, if e isn't lynched by that point.

[Swowl]

I am Jimmy Numbers
mail-mi is Boss
EFHW is Tiny

we were given fake names of John Pope and Ben Mason

We are all human

why not fake claim pope?

[EFHW]

I randomized all non-mafia actions N1. Did you get a alien-cop result that night?

see this is why I do not trust you. you said you randomized ALL actions. not all NON MAFIA actions.

I did?

I did. I misspoke,  sorry. It was nonmafia actions.

[skip wooznum]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

me and didds are one on this I promise you. If she comes on and tells me otherwise and to go E I will support E. I am not trying to divert a lynch.

If you're telling the truth here, then you are in no hurry. Likely Didds will return before Space. But I have to take the route that is safest for my faction.

you see me voting for anyone right now champ?

Didds will come back and say the same as I am, I am just trying to clarify that you will lynch Skum B instead of Skum A if needed.

We will lynch any scum thou wanteth to lynch, we're just not moving yet, is all.

[2.71828.....]

So, here’s the thing. We don’t have any reason to believe that you aren’t the shooters. There is no evidence that cayvie shoots and kills. For all we know, that was Shraeye who killed (he had the purple SK color.) while you all are shooting and killing.

There hasn’t been a kill after Shraeye died.

This is critical to us winning and I don’t see how we make any kind of deal without confirmation of that. But I know this presents an issue. The only way to prove it is to NK.

I see the math being the same tomorrow as it is now. We lynch red, you NK green. Now we know what your kill look like and we can talk about winning.

We do have evidence. Cayvie knew she shot MiX on the first night. He was shot and killed. We killed LaLight. He was not shot and killed.

I’m assuming cayvie was lying. Did y’all redirect her? I’m on my phone so I do t have it front of me, but I remember it all being wonky and suspicious

Yes, we redirected everyone randomly.

ah, here it is, happened while I was sleeping.  and yeah, PPE, to what EFHW just said.  it is a very easy thing to say "everyone" and mean "everyone but us"

[Swowl]

Didds will come back and say the same as I am, I am just trying to clarify that you will lynch Skum B instead of Skum A if needed.

And I will happily do that once Didds returns, if e isn't lynched by that point.

I would suggest you remove the option from the table until didds returns then. Sincerely.

[2.71828.....]

I am Jimmy Numbers
mail-mi is Boss
EFHW is Tiny

we were given fake names of John Pope and Ben Mason

We are all human

why not fake claim pope?

I had gotten it in my head to claim a doctor, so I went on the wiki and found a name.  I was overconfident given the number of flips.  Should have known better

[faust]

Didds will come back and say the same as I am, I am just trying to clarify that you will lynch Skum B instead of Skum A if needed.

And I will happily do that once Didds returns, if e isn't lynched by that point.

I would suggest you remove the option from the table until didds returns then. Sincerely.

That is up to Space and Eddie. Who I hope will take a certain scum lynch if it presents itself.

[Swowl]

I would like to lynch MailMi instead of E.
you good with that?

That's fine. But I won't be switching as long as there is a chance to lynch e with Didds' support.

me and didds are one on this I promise you. If she comes on and tells me otherwise and to go E I will support E. I am not trying to divert a lynch.

If you're telling the truth here, then you are in no hurry. Likely Didds will return before Space. But I have to take the route that is safest for my faction.

you see me voting for anyone right now champ?

Didds will come back and say the same as I am, I am just trying to clarify that you will lynch Skum B instead of Skum A if needed.

We will lynch any scum thou wanteth to lynch, we're just not moving yet, is all.

 you will lynch no skum without me or didds, and I would suggest you consider my request here considering you will NEED us even if you get skum today.

[skip wooznum]

There's no way they're all human. What would be the point of the shot you gave space? All they can do with it is shoot you? Makes no sense.

[faust]

Why do you want to lynch mail-mi over e anyways?

[faust]

If we put our cards on the table, so should you.

[Swowl]

Why do you want to lynch mail-mi over e anyways?

because we control the 2 votes that matter.

Why do you want to lynch mail-mi over e anyways?

why the hell do you care?

[Swowl]

well the first quote should of been about the cards on the table I messed that quote up.

[faust]

Why do you want to lynch mail-mi over e anyways?

because we control the 2 votes that matter.

Why do you want to lynch mail-mi over e anyways?

why the hell do you care?

It doesn't fit with what you claimed, so I assume you are lying, so I cannot trust you.

[Swowl]

There's no way they're all human. What would be the point of the shot you gave space? All they can do with it is shoot you? Makes no sense.

GOD had to walk you guys the shit into it but skip get mv fucking p

[Swowl]

we
are going
to lynch
mail mi

make sense?

[EFHW]

There's no way they're all human. What would be the point of the shot you gave space? All they can do with it is shoot you? Makes no sense.

How do you know what the gift does?

[faust]

Let's see how it goes. If you want to lynch him that badly, I assume you'll still want the same thing tomorrow

[skip wooznum]

we
are going
to lynch
mail mi

make sense?

sure. You think he's more likely human than the others are?

[faust]

There's no way they're all human. What would be the point of the shot you gave space? All they can do with it is shoot you? Makes no sense.

GOD had to walk you guys the shit into it but skip get mv fucking p

Please remain civil.

[Swowl]

Let's see how it goes. If you want to lynch him that badly, I assume you'll still want the same thing tomorrow

let me be more clear. we will lynch MailMi then EFHW in that order. Or we will risk it with skum.

[Swowl]

There's no way they're all human. What would be the point of the shot you gave space? All they can do with it is shoot you? Makes no sense.

GOD had to walk you guys the shit into it but skip get mv fucking p

Please remain civil.

okok fair sorry just typing as I go, sorry did not mean for that to come off the way it obviously did. that is my bad I am sorry.

[2.71828.....]

Let's see how it goes. If you want to lynch him that badly, I assume you'll still want the same thing tomorrow

let me be more clear. we will lynch MailMi then EFHW in that order. Or we will risk it with skum.

The only risk is lynching mail-mi then EFHW

lynching town with us is a guarentee.

[Swowl]

we
are going
to lynch
mail mi

make sense?

sure. You think he's more likely human than the others are?

something along those lines.

[faust]

I think I'm going to step back from this until the situation has resolved itself.

[2.71828.....]

actually, look at the numbers

4 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You lynch town with us, it will still be:

2 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You can still go back on your town-lynching plan and lynch mafia.

[Swowl]

Let's see how it goes. If you want to lynch him that badly, I assume you'll still want the same thing tomorrow

let me be more clear. we will lynch MailMi then EFHW in that order. Or we will risk it with skum.

The only risk is lynching mail-mi then EFHW

lynching town with us is a guarentee.

a GTD for you. I don't know if you are lying. and this game has been riddled with freeking win condition changes/weird shit/etc.

[Swowl]

actually, look at the numbers

4 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You lynch town with us, it will still be:

2 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You can still go back on your town-lynching plan and lynch mafia.

right.... but we need who killed us to be dead. so in a world where all the killers are dead when the game ends... we are GTD victory.

[skip wooznum]

Let's see how it goes. If you want to lynch him that badly, I assume you'll still want the same thing tomorrow

let me be more clear. we will lynch MailMi then EFHW in that order. Or we will risk it with skum.

Deal. I'll change my vote when I wake up. It's past 3 in the morning for me so I'm really tired. I might even pass out in the middle of making thi

[2.71828.....]

actually, look at the numbers

4 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You lynch town with us, it will still be:

2 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You can still go back on your town-lynching plan and lynch mafia.

right.... but we need who killed us to be dead. so in a world where all the killers are dead when the game ends... we are GTD victory.

this way you get to see our kill-flavor guarenteed.  No one else is killing tonight.

It will prove we simply "kill" not "shoot and kill"

[2.71828.....]

if the death tonight flips "shoot and kill" - by all means.  lynch us with town

[Swowl]

actually, look at the numbers

4 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You lynch town with us, it will still be:

2 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You can still go back on your town-lynching plan and lynch mafia.

right.... but we need who killed us to be dead. so in a world where all the killers are dead when the game ends... we are GTD victory.

this way you get to see our kill-flavor guarenteed.  No one else is killing tonight.

It will prove we simply "kill" not "shoot and kill"

k lets no lynch then

[EFHW]

actually, look at the numbers

4 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You lynch town with us, it will still be:

2 town
3 mafia
2 Dorians

You can still go back on your town-lynching plan and lynch mafia.

right.... but we need who killed us to be dead. so in a world where all the killers are dead when the game ends... we are GTD victory.

But you would be dead, too. No victory.

Ppe what e said
Ppe interesting idea

[2.71828.....]

I would do a no lynch

[Swowl]

interesting idea then.
We no lynch. which we can do because WCD and I + you control 5 votes.

you kill not us and prove with flavor that you are who you say you are.
And then honestly, I cannot see a reason why we do not side skum.

[2.71828.....]

vote: No Lynch

[EFHW]

vote: no lynch.

[Swowl]

I also want to know you win con

[2.71828.....]

We win when mafia control the world or nothing can prevent it.

[Swowl]

If you are lying, about this, or one other key piece of information, Mafia and Dornia will both lose.

[EFHW]

Yeah, standard mafia wincon.

Ppe It's good we're not lying,  then.

[Swowl]

OK - obviously I am gonna wait for WCD to chime in. So for now, as it is 1230 in the morning here... I am going to bed.


For real sorry if I got jumpy in the middle there - read it back and I am not happy with the way it came out. Not intentional, no hard feelings I hope.

[EFHW]

Will you have Didds unvote when she comes back, so e isn't quichlynched while we are still talking?

[Swowl]

Will you have Didds unvote when she comes back, so e isn't quichlynched while we are still talking?

efoo... I just work here. didds is the boss. but like I said, I think we will be same page on this.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.7:

2.7 (3): WCD, skip, faust
Space (1): mail-mi
No Lynch (2): 2.7, EFHW

Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, uncleeurope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote: e

Swan & Didds, I've used the shot. It takes effect with a delay, but even if I die, that won'e stop it from happening.

[EFHW]

Will you have Didds unvote when she comes back, so e isn't quichlynched while we are still talking?

efoo... I just work here. didds is the boss. but like I said, I think we will be same page on this.

I just meant could you leave her a message.

[2.71828.....]

So, can't vote for a no Lynch?

That's interesting.

[2.71828.....]

Deceptive town being deceptive about their role?

Looking at you, Eddie

[ashersky]

The things you don't realize you miss until you find them again surprise you every time.  I suppose losing your world to aliens intent on domination of your entire existence can do that.  And yet, after we won, we didn't rush right back to the things we cared about.  First we thought about the things we ought to care about.

Still, time passes.  When I stumbled upon a random smartphone, still charged, with music queued up, I could not have predicted my visceral reaction to hearing the music that I loved before the attack.  Bands that probably no longer exist, but that we don't think to ask about, Sheppard, Birds of Tokyo, all the others...hearing their music by accident released a flood of emotion by accident.

We will continue to be surprised.  We will continue to be revived.  We will continue to live.

--dairy entry, a cold day in summer after the invasion


Vote Count 4.8:

2.7 (4): WCD, skip, faust, Space
Space (1): mail-mi
No Lynch (2): 2.7, EFHW

Not Voting (2): DatSwan, uncleeurope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[EFHW]

So, can't vote for a no Lynch?

That's interesting.

The rules say we can.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 4.8:

2.7 (3): WCD, skip, faust, Space
Space (2): EFHW, mail-mi

Not Voting (4): 2.7, DatSwan, uncleeurope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

That's an interesting vote count

[2.71828.....]

I have no clue what is going on with the vote count.

I do know I and my fellow mafia aren't making it happen

[2.71828.....]

Ash, did you accidentally not change the vote count numbers?

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: e

[faust]

Fingers crossed.

[faust]

I trust that you switched your power off, Eddie? Otherwise this will be awkward...

Well, Vote: e just to be on the safe side.

[Uncleeurope]

I trust that you switched your power off, Eddie? Otherwise this will be awkward...

Well, Vote: e just to be on the safe side.

Yup, it’s off.

[2.71828.....]

Well, swan. Too bad your partner wasn't working with you

[2.71828.....]

I would be willing to entertain the idea of keeping you both alive if you want to work with us, but I don't think my partners are as forgiving.

[ashersky]

Yes, the numbers were not updated in the last vote count.  It has been fixed.

[2.71828.....]

Because you two plus the last two of us mafia still provide a majority

[ashersky]

Day 4 Final Vote Count:

2.7 (5): WCD, skip, faust, Space, uncle
Space (1): mail-mi
No Lynch (2): 2.7, EFHW

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[skip wooznum]

@space, don't we need to know whom you shot?

[ashersky]

What were we to do, once the overarching threat of world domination was removed?  Revert to our old selves?  For some, that was all there was to do.  For others, it was a chance to reinvent themselves for the better...or worse.

All I know is, nothing went back to normal.  That was never going to happen.  No one could be trusted.  No one.

--Diary entry, a cold sunset in summer.

2.7 was lynched!  He was Jimmy Numbers, the Mafia Accountant.  He was human.
SpaceAnemone succumbed to their wounds. They were killed last night.  They were Rita, the Forgotten Family Friend.  They were human.

[ashersky]

Night 4 begins now.  Orders are due within 24 hours.

[ashersky]

Apologies for some errors in the final three vote counts.  They have been updated to show the correct votes, including No Lynch votes.

[ashersky]

I wonder if adjusting would have been easier if everyone I knew had made it. Or if no one had. I see so many holding on to the few that remain instead of living what life there is to live. You would think we could find joy in surviving. You would think.

Now, surviving is just another word for living. It is putting yourself first. It might be giving up humanity. If that's what it has become, why did we fight to save it?

--Diary Entry, a cold sunrise in the summer.

faust was killed during the night! He was Dai, the Trapper. He was human. On a chain around his neck hangs a key. It must open the handmade cage nearby that still has the decaying body of shraeye inside...

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.0:

Not Voting (6): WCD, EFHW, DatSwan, uncleeurope, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on May 17 at 9:00 p.m.

[skip wooznum]

I don't really have the willpower to fight about this.

@didds and swan, there's 2 of you. We lynch one scum today and one tomorrow, they can't shoot you both. You can also side with them and probably win. I don't know how you should choose. If I were in your situation, I'd probably go with town, because I usually root for town. This whole situation is absurd, unless scum is lying about something and you can't really win with them. I have no idea what that something might be.

I'm otherwise probably done with this game. I'll vote wherever necessary, but I'm not really interested in putting much more effort than that into this.

[EFHW]

We don't, either.  We could have killed Didds or Swan,  but Swan did reach an agreement with us, so we just couldn't be scummy enough to threaten them again. Kingmaker sucks, but it seemed the better option. A week spent forcing a no lynch would have sucked, too.

[EFHW]

What was faust planning to use Shraeye's body for? Ghoulish!

[mail-mi]

What they all said. You can either win with town or scum. Bonus points, if you choose scum the game is over tomorrow morning, so you at least win faster with us.

Up to y'all to decide who played a better game

[Uncleeurope]

What they all said. You can either win with town or scum. Bonus points, if you choose scum the game is over tomorrow morning, so you at least win faster with us.

Up to y'all to decide who played a better game

Objection!

Leading the witness!

[WestCoastDidds]

Eddie, Skip...do you all have any protections we can use?

Otherwise we’ll have to lynch town. A specific Dornian has to be alive so we won’t be able to risk the NK. :/

[Swowl]

Yeah - Our decision has less to do with who played a better game, like none at all actually... and who we are most likely to win with.
I really wanted to know the flavor of the kill when forced, to be as sure as we could - and while that could be manipulated I suppose... the most logical explanation at this point is that Cayvie killed WCD.... so our killer is dead.

If we are wrong we are wrong... we took action last night that pretty much set our choice in stone barring crazy shenanigans... none of which seemed to of happened.

We can expedite it and just kind of do this or you guys can all talk it out or whatever if you want. We are fine with anything.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie, Skip...do you all have any protections we can use?

Otherwise we’ll have to lynch town. A specific Dornian has to be alive so we won’t be able to risk the NK. :/

I literally have a Doc shot from Skip.

I didn’t want to mention it earlier because I don’t think I can target myself with it, and I had to bank on not getting targetted.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie, Skip...do you all have any protections we can use?

Otherwise we’ll have to lynch town. A specific Dornian has to be alive so we won’t be able to risk the NK. :/

I literally have a Doc shot from Skip.

I didn’t want to mention it earlier because I don’t think I can target myself with it, and I had to bank on not getting targetted.

Just tell me who to target.

[Swowl]

Hey also just out of shear utter curiosity.
Who were you all pushing a space lynch if you had space set up to die already?

[Uncleeurope]

Hey also just out of shear utter curiosity.
Who were you all pushing a space lynch if you had space set up to die already?

I assumed part of Space’s ability was delaying death for a night.

[EFHW]

Hey also just out of shear utter curiosity.
Who were you all pushing a space lynch if you had space set up to die already?

We didn't know! We thought the nk just failed for some reason.

[EFHW]

Eddie, Skip...do you all have any protections we can use?

Otherwise we’ll have to lynch town. A specific Dornian has to be alive so we won’t be able to risk the NK. :/

I literally have a Doc shot from Skip.

I didn’t want to mention it earlier because I don’t think I can target myself with it, and I had to bank on not getting targetted.

When did you get it?

[EFHW]

Eddie, Skip...do you all have any protections we can use?

Otherwise we’ll have to lynch town. A specific Dornian has to be alive so we won’t be able to risk the NK. :/

Do you have daychat?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.1:

Not Voting (6): WCD, EFHW, DatSwan, uncleeurope, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on May 17 at 9:00 p.m.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie, Skip...do you all have any protections we can use?

Otherwise we’ll have to lynch town. A specific Dornian has to be alive so we won’t be able to risk the NK. :/

I literally have a Doc shot from Skip.

I didn’t want to mention it earlier because I don’t think I can target myself with it, and I had to bank on not getting targetted.

When did you get it?

That seems an awful lot like something you need to know more than something they need to know.

[skip wooznum]

Cause here's the thing: town definitely has a path to victory here, just lynch e, Eddie, EFHW. e would have you believe that scum has a path to victory, but there is no evidence.

So, if those three are scum

Swan, yams, and I are not scum

Faust, space, and skip are town

We need three more days to lynch all of them, they need three nights to kill all of you. So, if we lynch e then the three days happen sooner than the three nights, yeah?

Are you talking fastest path to victory?

2 town lynches make a mafia majority to trigger game end

So you admit you don't have a 3 person scumteam.

There are 9 people alive, takes 5 to Lynch

After two town lynches + two NKs....

5 alive, 3 to Lynch.

If there were 2 of us we would need 3 lynches. Because you don't add 3rd parties in the count for "majority"

This post from e makes it sound like bad guys will have to kill one of y'all in addition to me+eddie to gain majority (3 alive 2 to lynch) and achieve their wincon. Food for thought.

[EFHW]

No. Kill both town, we control the world as the only ones with a killing power. Today is the last day if the Dornians side with us.

Might as well get on with it.

vote: Eddie

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.2:

uncleeurope (1): EFHW

Not Voting (5): WCD, DatSwan, uncleeurope, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on May 17 at 9:00 p.m.

[WestCoastDidds]

Sorry, friends. We gave Space a gun, but it only works on aliens. Who knew aliens would be the good guys?

Vote: Eddie

[WestCoastDidds]

Do you have daychat?

Yeah. Why?

[EFHW]

Do you have daychat?

Yeah. Why?

No particular reason. Context.

[WestCoastDidds]

Do you have daychat?

Yeah. Why?

No particular reason. Context.

It’s incredibly long, which is funny because we aren’t usually on at the same time. But it’s a place for all of my random musing and off-topic questions. Like Ash and Swan have dogs with the same names!

[mail-mi]

vote: Eddie

[Uncleeurope]

Heh, K.

We have to do it the hard way.

Well, Vote: EFHW

[Uncleeurope]

Heh, K.

We have to do it the hard way.

Well, Vote: EFHW

Ehhh

Vote: EFHW

[skip wooznum]

vote: efhw

[Swowl]

Vote: Eddie

[mail-mi]

So either Eddie is lynched, or he activated his power and we're gonna have to do it again.

[Uncleeurope]

So either Eddie is lynched, or he activated his power and we're gonna have to do it again.

And wait, there’s more!

Vote: EFHW

If you guys don’t follow whatever I vote for now, I get to NK a dissenter.

It’s listen to the president time.

Because ima be shooting a Doorknobthian.

(And before you get any ideas, yes, I still get to use it if I am killed through my ability.)

Any questions?


Remember, your votes are final.

And I still have a Doc shot.

[WestCoastDidds]

So either Eddie is lynched, or he activated his power and we're gonna have to do it again.

And wait, there’s more!

Vote: EFHW

If you guys don’t follow whatever I vote for now, I get to NK a dissenter.

It’s listen to the president time.

Because ima be shooting a Doorknobthian.

(And before you get any ideas, yes, I still get to use it if I am killed through my ability.)

Any questions?


Remember, your votes are final.

And I still have a Doc shot.

Okay, Eddie, explain for me. You get to shoot a dissenter.... is that one of the people who is not on the wagon you’re on at the end of the day? Please give me all the details! 

[WestCoastDidds]

Does Ash reset the votes from before?

[mail-mi]

So either Eddie is lynched, or he activated his power and we're gonna have to do it again.

And wait, there’s more!

Vote: EFHW

If you guys don’t follow whatever I vote for now, I get to NK a dissenter.

It’s listen to the president time.

Because ima be shooting a Doorknobthian.

(And before you get any ideas, yes, I still get to use it if I am killed through my ability.)

Any questions?


Remember, your votes are final.

And I still have a Doc shot.

Yes please give all the details.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, I shoot someone who isn’t on the wagon I am on (EFHW) at day end if someone other than EFHW is lynched.

(Also, includes No-Lynch, if I were voting for that)

It is counted closer to a venge-kill than a NK, because I can perform other actions with it. (Which didn’t make sense to me because I don’t have other night actions) but I think that means I can use it with the Doc shot, and obviously it means I can use it even if I die. (Unless I vote for myself, because I only get the kill if the largest majority isn’t what I voted for.

I think it also technically happens right when night starts, so it will kill people before they use abilities, but I don’t think that matters in this case.

Am I missing anything?

Oh, yeah, so if we vote EFHW down, I can just shoot Mail-mi and Doc whoever you ask me to, otherwise I will have to shoot one of you guys, and I have an opinion on which one it is.

So the game is almost certainly ending tonight. (Unless I am missing something?)

[Uncleeurope]

Does Ash reset the votes from before?

As far as I understand it, Ash will put up a vote count with no one voting except me on EFHW.

[skip wooznum]

vote: efhw

I was wondering why eddie had such a useless power

[mail-mi]

Yeah, I shoot someone who isn’t on the wagon I am on (EFHW) at day end if someone other than EFHW is lynched.

Seems like you can't shoot me if EFHW is lynched.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, I shoot someone who isn’t on the wagon I am on (EFHW) at day end if someone other than EFHW is lynched.

Seems like you can't shoot me if EFHW is lynched.

Sigh... True.

I can shoot EFHW if you are lynched, though! But if the Doorknobthians want to stop me from killing, then EFHW has to die here.

[Swowl]

you get that out of spite of being tricked if you cannot actually kill and we agreed to this we would just team with skum again tomorrow and let them win right?

[mail-mi]

Yeah, I shoot someone who isn’t on the wagon I am on (EFHW) at day end if someone other than EFHW is lynched.

Seems like you can't shoot me if EFHW is lynched.

Sigh... True.

I can shoot EFHW if you are lynched, though! But if the Doorknobthians want to stop me from killing, then EFHW has to die here.

Also skip has already voted for efhw so I won't be lynched today.

[mail-mi]

you get that out of spite of being tricked if you cannot actually kill and we agreed to this we would just team with skum again tomorrow and let them win right?

Yeah, what j see happening here is lunch EFHW, I kill a townie tonight, and then we have an absolute kingmaker situation tomorrow. Which gives me a 50% chance of winning.

Or we lynch Eddie, he kills one of you (hopefully not the right one) and you win with us without having to play kingmaker. But that gives y'all only a 50% chance of winning.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yeah, I shoot someone who isn’t on the wagon I am on (EFHW) at day end if someone other than EFHW is lynched.

Seems like you can't shoot me if EFHW is lynched.

Sigh... True.

I can shoot EFHW if you are lynched, though! But if the Doorknobthians want to stop me from killing, then EFHW has to die here.

The doorknobthians is awesome. We definitely want to keep you from killing us. We also want to keep yams from killing us.

I’m leaning toward waiting until Ash wakes up to see the reset and voting with you, but Swan is going to need some convincing. Can you convince him?

[mail-mi]

Yeah, I shoot someone who isn’t on the wagon I am on (EFHW) at day end if someone other than EFHW is lynched.

Seems like you can't shoot me if EFHW is lynched.

Sigh... True.

I can shoot EFHW if you are lynched, though! But if the Doorknobthians want to stop me from killing, then EFHW has to die here.

The doorknobthians is awesome. We definitely want to keep you from killing us. We also want to keep yams from killing us.

I’m leaning toward waiting until Ash wakes up to see the reset and voting with you, but Swan is going to need some convincing. Can you convince him?

If you do that, we enter a kingmaking decision for tomorrow between me and whatever townie survives. So you guys win, but you have to decide who you win with.

[Swowl]

MM - what did you get from skip?

[Uncleeurope]

you get that out of spite of being tricked if you cannot actually kill and we agreed to this we would just team with skum again tomorrow and let them win right?

Yeah, what j see happening here is lunch EFHW, I kill a townie tonight, and then we have an absolute kingmaker situation tomorrow. Which gives me a 50% chance of winning.

Or we lynch Eddie, he kills one of you (hopefully not the right one) and you win with us without having to play kingmaker. But that gives y'all only a 50% chance of winning.

You can frame it in any way that makes you feel better, but what do you think you guys have been forcing them to do this entire time?

I was hoping for them to just side with us so I could avoid all this garbage.

[mail-mi]

MM - what did you get from skip?

A 1-shot doctor.

[Swowl]

MM - what did you get from skip?

A 1-shot doctor.

skip from what I remember about your role you said once and no re targeting... right?

[mail-mi]

you get that out of spite of being tricked if you cannot actually kill and we agreed to this we would just team with skum again tomorrow and let them win right?

Yeah, what j see happening here is lunch EFHW, I kill a townie tonight, and then we have an absolute kingmaker situation tomorrow. Which gives me a 50% chance of winning.

Or we lynch Eddie, he kills one of you (hopefully not the right one) and you win with us without having to play kingmaker. But that gives y'all only a 50% chance of winning.

You can frame it in any way that makes you feel better, but what do you think you guys have been forcing them to do this entire time?

I was hoping for them to just side with us so I could avoid all this garbage.

I was simply putting out the possibilities. Obviously I think they'll join you on EFHW and then we play kingmaker tomorrow. I hope they won't, but that's not playing to their win condition.

[Swowl]

eddie - what happens if there is no lynch after your power is on?

[Uncleeurope]

eddie - what happens if there is no lynch after your power is on?

If I didn't vote for No-Lynch, then I kill someone who didn't vote with me.

[Swowl]

eddie - what happens if there is no lynch after your power is on?

If I didn't vote for No-Lynch, then I kill someone who didn't vote with me.

right I mean, if it goes no lynch. it just goes no lynch? I assume not because obv skum could manipulate that, but just checking

[Uncleeurope]

I don't know what you mean, so I will cover everything I know related to no lynch.

If everyone votes No-Lynch, then a No-Lynch happens (and I get to kill someone not voting for EFHW)

At the end of the deadline, whatever has the most votes will just die (or nobody will die is No-Lynch has the most votes). And if the thing with the most votes is anything other than EFHW, I will kill someone not voting for EFHW.

[mail-mi]

I don't know what you mean, so I will cover everything I know related to no lynch.

If everyone votes No-Lynch, then a No-Lynch happens (and I get to kill someone not voting for EFHW)

At the end of the deadline, whatever has the most votes will just die (or nobody will die is No-Lynch has the most votes). And if the thing with the most votes is anything other than EFHW, I will kill someone not voting for EFHW.

What happens in the case of a tie?

[Uncleeurope]

I don't know what you mean, so I will cover everything I know related to no lynch.

If everyone votes No-Lynch, then a No-Lynch happens (and I get to kill someone not voting for EFHW)

At the end of the deadline, whatever has the most votes will just die (or nobody will die is No-Lynch has the most votes). And if the thing with the most votes is anything other than EFHW, I will kill someone not voting for EFHW.

What happens in the case of a tie?

Why, the President tiebreaks, of course.

[Swowl]

I don't know what you mean, so I will cover everything I know related to no lynch.

If everyone votes No-Lynch, then a No-Lynch happens (and I get to kill someone not voting for EFHW)

At the end of the deadline, whatever has the most votes will just die (or nobody will die is No-Lynch has the most votes). And if the thing with the most votes is anything other than EFHW, I will kill someone not voting for EFHW.

What happens in the case of a tie?

Why, the President tiebreaks, of course.

MM - do you believe this?

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't know what you mean, so I will cover everything I know related to no lynch.

If everyone votes No-Lynch, then a No-Lynch happens (and I get to kill someone not voting for EFHW)

At the end of the deadline, whatever has the most votes will just die (or nobody will die is No-Lynch has the most votes). And if the thing with the most votes is anything other than EFHW, I will kill someone not voting for EFHW.

What happens in the case of a tie?

Why, the President tiebreaks, of course.

So if it’s 3-3, you decide who gets lynched? Or your vote is just worth more And who you’re voting for gets lynched?

[mail-mi]

I don't know what you mean, so I will cover everything I know related to no lynch.

If everyone votes No-Lynch, then a No-Lynch happens (and I get to kill someone not voting for EFHW)

At the end of the deadline, whatever has the most votes will just die (or nobody will die is No-Lynch has the most votes). And if the thing with the most votes is anything other than EFHW, I will kill someone not voting for EFHW.

What happens in the case of a tie?

Why, the President tiebreaks, of course.

MM - do you believe this?

I think so.

[Uncleeurope]

I don't know what you mean, so I will cover everything I know related to no lynch.

If everyone votes No-Lynch, then a No-Lynch happens (and I get to kill someone not voting for EFHW)

At the end of the deadline, whatever has the most votes will just die (or nobody will die is No-Lynch has the most votes). And if the thing with the most votes is anything other than EFHW, I will kill someone not voting for EFHW.

What happens in the case of a tie?

Why, the President tiebreaks, of course.

So if it’s 3-3, you decide who gets lynched? Or your vote is just worth more And who you’re voting for gets lynched?

I decide which event occurs among all tied results.

[skip wooznum]

MM - what did you get from skip?

A 1-shot doctor.

skip from what I remember about your role you said once and no re targeting... right?

It's true that I cannot target the same person twice in a game. But I don't know anything about the degrees I give out. I might have given the same degree twice to two different players. Heck, for all I know, all my degrees might do the same thing, just with different flavor names. I have no idea how it works. 

[EFHW]

Eddie, if we lynch you, you still die, right? After your vengekill. It seems implausible that you would be able to use the doc power if you are lynched.

So, lynch me, mail mi kills Eddie, who probably can't doctor himself. Tomorrow there are 2 Dornians, 1 scum and 1 town. Kingmaker. Dornians win for sure, scum 50:50 depending on their choice.

or

Lynch Eddie, he kills someone nontown (he says he'll kill a Dornian because he's hoping that will make them want to lynch me) and scum kills town. Both town are dead then. Scum wins with 2:2. Dornians are 50:50 depending on if the right one survives.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.3:

uncleeurope (4): EFHW, WCD, mail-mi, DatSwan
EFHW (2): uncle, skip

Not Voting (0):

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on May 17 at 9:00 p.m.

[mail-mi]

Vote Count 5.3:

uncleeurope (4): EFHW, WCD, mail-mi, DatSwan
EFHW (2): uncle, skip

Not Voting (0):

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on May 17 at 9:00 p.m.

...what?

Did votes not get reset?

Is Eddie lynchproof for the rest of the day?

[EFHW]

This looks to like we have to threaten to kill a Dornian if I am lynched. Then they have 50:50 chance in both scenarios.

PPE maybe Eddie has been bluffing after all.

[EFHW]

Assuming this is all true, there are a couple scum-Dornian deals I can think of that would be mutually beneficial,  but would require large amounts of trust.

[Swowl]

Let's hold off on complicating things a smig until we get an answer from eddie as to what exactly is going on. Because... bro... this isn't how you said it would go down.

[EFHW]

For example,  we could lynch me in exchange for being chosen in kingmaker.

Maybe there's only one deal. We can't do much to help them in the lynch Eddie scenario.

PPE Sure, that's fine. Just getting my thoughts down.

[Uncleeurope]

Nope, I wasn't lying.

I just reread my ability, and it doesn't say explicitly that it clears the current votes, it just makes the first set not matter. As well as calling for a second vote, which I assume has happened now.

I just assumed my ability cleared the old vote. It's weird that it doesn't.

Vote: EFHW

I am just going to assume that the second vote starts now, just in case.

[Uncleeurope]

Let's hold off on complicating things a smig until we get an answer from eddie as to what exactly is going on. Because... bro... this isn't how you said it would go down.

No idea, it isn't happening like I assumed it would, either.

The function is certainly the same, though, even if it isn't presented in the way I assumed.

[Uncleeurope]

And yes, I can still be lynched here.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie, if we lynch you, you still die, right? After your vengekill. It seems implausible that you would be able to use the doc power if you are lynched.

So, lynch me, mail mi kills Eddie, who probably can't doctor himself. Tomorrow there are 2 Dornians, 1 scum and 1 town. Kingmaker. Dornians win for sure, scum 50:50 depending on their choice.

or

Lynch Eddie, he kills someone nontown (he says he'll kill a Dornian because he's hoping that will make them want to lynch me) and scum kills town. Both town are dead then. Scum wins with 2:2. Dornians are 50:50 depending on if the right one survives.

The key there is I can guarantee that the Doorknobthians will win.

[ashersky]

No matter how many years passed, history tended to repeat itself.  I recall once, after a justice decision was made, someone attempting to revive old governmental systems that had proven ineffective even before the invasion.

There was a flyer distributed that day...

The people have spoken!  uncleeurope has been lynched!

Let us ensure the will of the people is heeded!  Let us call a referendum!  You may recall that, before the invasion, a referendum was a direct and universal vote in which the entire electorate was invited to vote on a particular proposal and could result in the adoption of a new policy or specific law.  Let us give power back to the people!  Vote now!

Do we remain with this decision?  Leave it behind as a mistake?  This may be the most important decision of your life!  What will you do?  Uphold or overturn?

I don't remember how it turned out.  It couldn't have gone well. 

--Dairy entry, a cold summer day after the invasion



Each member of the electorate (all players) have one vote, and only one vote.  Once cast, it may not be undone.  Cast your votes whenever you want; when a majority is reached, the decision will be passed.

Your ballot contains the following options: "remain with the lynch" or "leave him alive"
To vote, post remain or leave (in bold) now!

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.4:

Remain (0):
Leave (0):

Not Voting (6): WCD, EFHW, DatSwan, uncleeurope, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 6 voters, it takes 4 to confirm. Day 5 ends on May 17 at 9:00 p.m.

[Uncleeurope]

Assuming this is all true, there are a couple scum-Dornian deals I can think of that would be mutually beneficial,  but would require large amounts of trust.

That's the whole thing with this scenario, none of us have any reason to trust anyone.

It's the dumbest standoff I have run across in this game.

I absolutely hate it.

Maybe we can just agree that we all win? I mean, except for Shraeye/Galzria/Cayvie. The game has to have some losers.

[Uncleeurope]

No matter how many years passed, history tended to repeat itself.  I recall once, after a justice decision was made, someone attempting to revive old governmental systems that had proven ineffective even before the invasion.

There was a flyer distributed that day...

The people have spoken!  uncleeurope has been lynched!

Let us ensure the will of the people is heeded!  Let us call a referendum!  You may recall that, before the invasion, a referendum was a direct and universal vote in which the entire electorate was invited to vote on a particular proposal and could result in the adoption of a new policy or specific law.  Let us give power back to the people!  Vote now!

Do we remain with this decision?  Leave it behind as a mistake?  This may be the most important decision of your life!  What will you do?  Uphold or overturn?

I don't remember how it turned out.  It couldn't have gone well. 

--Dairy entry, a cold summer day after the invasion



Each member of the electorate (all players) have one vote, and only one vote.  Once cast, it may not be undone.  Cast your votes whenever you want; when a majority is reached, the decision will be passed.

Your ballot contains the following options: "remain with the lynch" or "leave him alive"
To vote, post remain or leave (in bold) now!

That... Is not how I read that at all.

That's an even worse ability than I thought it was.

Leave

[mail-mi]

In-teresting.

So, Eddie, do you still have a kill if we decide to remain?

Also do you know what happens if we all decide to leave?

[Uncleeurope]

Just kill me and find out for yourself.

[EFHW]

I'm not seeing how dissenting voters fits in here. Is that regarding the remain/leave vote, or the previous vote lynching you, or not actually a thing?

[EFHW]

Eddie, if we lynch you, you still die, right? After your vengekill. It seems implausible that you would be able to use the doc power if you are lynched.

So, lynch me, mail mi kills Eddie, who probably can't doctor himself. Tomorrow there are 2 Dornians, 1 scum and 1 town. Kingmaker. Dornians win for sure, scum 50:50 depending on their choice.

or

Lynch Eddie, he kills someone nontown (he says he'll kill a Dornian because he's hoping that will make them want to lynch me) and scum kills town. Both town are dead then. Scum wins with 2:2 2:1. Dornians are 50:50 depending on if the right one survives.

The key there is I can guarantee that the Doorknobthians will win.

EBWOP.

Yes, I noticed that,  too.

[EFHW]

For example,  we could lynch me and not nk either Dornian in exchange for being chosen in kingmaker.

Maybe there's only one deal. We can't do much to help them in the lynch Eddie scenario.

PPE Sure, that's fine. Just getting my thoughts down.

EBWOP again.

[EFHW]

Just kill me and find out for yourself.

And if we don't kill you? Does the day end or continue?

[EFHW]

There's nothing in the rules about repeated no lynch no kill scenarios.

What happens then?

[Swowl]

well this kind of makes everything a lot easier from me and WCD's pov.

Eddie is *most likely* lying about their ability to kill somone... but it doesn't matter. Me and WCD will almost assuredly be voting where Eddie does to ensure we can not be killed by eddie in case they are telling the truth.

Skum you can play your shit out accordingly and we can re-assess tomorrow or whatever, unless you see something I do not here.

[ashersky]

There's nothing in the rules about repeated no lynch no kill scenarios.

What happens then?

A third consecutive “no” decision of the same type will not be permitted starting with the sixth game cycle.

[Swowl]

leave him alive

[WestCoastDidds]

Leave him alive

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.5:

Remain (0):
Leave (3): uncle, DatSwan, WCD

Not Voting (3): EFHW, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 6 voters, it takes 4 to confirm. Day 5 ends on May 17 at 9:00 p.m.

[mail-mi]

So Eddie, if we leave you alive, is it a no lynch?

[skip wooznum]

leave

Only one way to find out.

[EFHW]

There's nothing in the rules about repeated no lynch no kill scenarios.

What happens then?

A third consecutive “no” decision of the same type will not be permitted starting with the sixth game cycle.

What does "will not be permitted" mean? Will you decide randomly? Is there any way for the factions to tie?

[EFHW]

Leave

[skip wooznum]

If the galz lynch doesn't pan out, of the people with votes, I'd like a efhw lynch better than a eddie or didds lynch.

[skip wooznum]

I would not mind an e lynch though

[skip wooznum]

Whatever, no biggy, just me casually calling out scum team d2.

[mail-mi]

Welp Leave

[skip wooznum]

Out of curiosity, @efhw, was that a real scumslip that cayvie called you out for re the vig being a threat?

[EFHW]

Out of curiosity, @efhw, was that a real scumslip that cayvie called you out for re the vig being a threat?

I'm not sure. They were a threat to me, but I was genuinely thinking about how often they shoot wrong. It's true that it's not conventional to say vigs are a threat to town.

[EFHW]

Swan and Didds -- How about a deal? We don't shoot either of you and you make us kings?

[Uncleeurope]

Swan and Didds -- How about a deal? We don't shoot either of you and you make us kings?

Or, ya know, they just tell me who to Doc.

And I Doc them.

And they don’t have to needlessly trust you.

[ashersky]

Day 5 Final Vote Count:

Remain (0):
Leave (6): uncle, DatSwan, WCD, skip

Not Voting (2): EFHW, mail-mi

With 6 voters, it took 4 to confirm.

[ashersky]

The people have spoken and the results are in!  The decision has been reversed!

No one was lynched.

Night 5 begins now.

[ashersky]

Attention, due to a conflict in scheduling, last night's session of Survivor's Guilt Anonymous was canceled.

(A mod error resulted in the QT not being shared with anyone.)

[ashersky]

No one really thinks about what happens after. It was always just about fighting the Espheni, getting our world back, surviving. But what does the world look like after it survives something like that? What can we make it into?

We all tried. The best of us especially. But sometimes the worst try harder. Who wins the battle of wills?

--Dairy entry, a cold summer morning after the invasion

uncleeurope was killed during the night! They were Tom Mason, the President. They were human. You see something large hanging from their neck...it is a golden necklace, the Surgeon General's Medallion! Too bad they're dead.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 6.0:

Not Voting (5): WCD, EFHW, DatSwan, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends on May 19 at 9:00 p.m.

[mail-mi]

Vote Count 6.0:

Not Voting (6): WCD, EFHW, DatSwan, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends on May 19 at 9:00 p.m.

Is the "6" number intentional? There are only 5 alive.

[mail-mi]

Also vote: skip surprised the game isn't over yet.

[skip wooznum]

Well, I obviously cannot win. I think it's about time for each of you to consider that the opposing faction is lying. Because if you were both telling the truth, this game would be over, and all of you would have won.

[mail-mi]

Well, I obviously cannot win. I think it's about time for each of you to consider that the opposing faction is lying. Because if you were both telling the truth, this game would be over, and all of you would have won.

Or, because the survivors still have the option of siding with you to win, we have to let the game play out.

but also killing you is the fastest path to victory for both teams.

[skip wooznum]

Well, I obviously cannot win. I think it's about time for each of you to consider that the opposing faction is lying. Because if you were both telling the truth, this game would be over, and all of you would have won.

Or, because the survivors still have the option of siding with you to win, we have to let the game play out.

but also killing you is the fastest path to victory for both teams.

They can't side with me because even if we lynch efhw now, you will still shoot me tonight and win. I'm the only townie left. I die tonight no matter what. Once I'm dead town cannot win. Therefore scum+survivors should have already locked in a victory.

So what's actually happening is that the doorknobthians have been playing all of us. They're not really survivors.

I mean, I don't really care, because, like I said, I'm losing either way. 

[ashersky]

Vote Count 6.0:

Not Voting (6): WCD, EFHW, DatSwan, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends on May 19 at 9:00 p.m.

Is the "6" number intentional? There are only 5 alive.

Fixed.

[skip wooznum]

@mail-mi, you should probably unvote me while you think it over. What I'm saying makes sense.

[skip wooznum]

@mail-mi, you should probably unvote me while you think it over. What I'm saying makes sense.

Sorry, this post is maybe more condescending than I meant it to be.

[skip wooznum]

@doorknobthians, obviously if you know you're telling the truth, then you know scum is lying.

But I think it's more likely that y'all are lying.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not sure what we’d be lying about?

Vote: Skip

[EFHW]

@doorknobthians, obviously if you know you're telling the truth, then you know scum is lying.

But I think it's more likely that y'all are lying.

Just checking in. I'll post tomorrow.

[skip wooznum]

Well, clearly efhw thinks you might be lying, or she would've ended it.

[skip wooznum]

I’m not sure what we’d be lying about?

Vote: Skip

You aren't survivors. You don't win with scum. You win on your own.

[skip wooznum]

I’m not sure what we’d be lying about?

Vote: Skip

I mean, fine, whatever, let's say you're telling the truth. Why is the game not over? Scum must be lying then.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not sure what we’d be lying about?

Vote: Skip

I mean, fine, whatever, let's say you're telling the truth. Why is the game not over? Scum must be lying then.

I’m telling the truth. I don’t know why the game isn’t over.

What could scum be lying about? They have to exterminate everyone?

Unvote

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi, you should probably unvote me while you think it over. What I'm saying makes sense.

... You're right. unvote

Anything y'all need to come clean with, DiddSwan? (Alternatively, WestCoastSwan)

[skip wooznum]

@mail-mi, you should probably unvote me while you think it over. What I'm saying makes sense.

... You're right. unvote

Anything y'all need to come clean with, DiddSwan? (Alternatively, WestCoastSwan)

DaDidds

[WestCoastDidds]

DatDidds!

We just need to be alive.

Vote: Skip

[WestCoastDidds]

Why are we still playing?
 
Scum need to exterminate everyone? Or a single scum can’t NK? Or skip has some sort of shot left?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 6.1:

skip (1): WCD

Not Voting (4): EFHW, DatSwan, skip wooznum, mail-mi

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends on May 19 at 9:00 p.m.

[mail-mi]

Why are we still playing?
 
Scum need to exterminate everyone? Or a single scum can’t NK? Or skip has some sort of shot left?

We win when scum controls, or nothing can stop that from happening.

I think I figured out why the game is still going on, though.

[skip wooznum]

Why are we still playing?
 
Scum need to exterminate everyone? Or a single scum can’t NK? Or skip has some sort of shot left?

We win when scum controls, or nothing can stop that from happening.

I think I figured out why the game is still going on, though.

Why?

[WestCoastDidds]

Care to share?

[mail-mi]

I posted the thought in my scum qt and am awaiting EFHWs input before I do.

[Swowl]

cool. cool cool cool.

skip - we are not lying about anything

MM - I would also like to know the insight when efoo has time to get back to you.

[skip wooznum]

Well, if y'all believe each other, may as well just lynch me and get this over with. I'm itching to see the full setup. So just put me out of my misery.

[skip wooznum]

I wonder if it counts as a mislynch if no town players are on my wagon.

[Swowl]

@mail-mi, you should probably unvote me while you think it over. What I'm saying makes sense.

... You're right. unvote

Anything y'all need to come clean with, DiddSwan? (Alternatively, WestCoastSwan)

is there anything YOU need to come clean with? in what world do you unvote here if your win con is simply to eliminate all town?

[skip wooznum]

skip - we are not lying about anything

I'm not the one you need to convince.

[Swowl]

skip - we are not lying about anything

I'm not the one you need to convince.

yeah you have made that clear. fair enough.

[Swowl]

but to make it clear to everyone - we have not lied in any way shape or form about our win con.

[EFHW]

Isn't the game just still going because the Dornians could go either way? They are better off with us, but they have to actually commit to it for the game to end.

vote: Skip

[mail-mi]

vote: skip

Let's end this

[Swowl]

I believe that is hammer sauce.

and it cannot be because we can go either way - why the game is still on I mean.

2 skum 1 town 2 dorian
- we lynch town, skum wins
- we lynch skum, skum shoots town, skum wins.

so there actually like... MUST be something else in play.

[mail-mi]

I believe that is hammer sauce.

and it cannot be because we can go either way - why the game is still on I mean.

2 skum 1 town 2 dorian
- we lynch town, skum wins
- we lynch skum, skum shoots town, skum wins.

so there actually like... MUST be something else in play.

There is, and now that Skip has been hammered, I'll explain it.

When we have 1 player alive on our team, we have an "initiate" action that allows the scum player to offer another player to change their win condition to ours. They don't get to learn who we are. So if y'all had decided to lunch EFHW or I, we could have initiated skip tonight and he would have won with us if he chose to alter his win condition.

At least, I think that's why the game still goes on.

[WestCoastDidds]

I believe that is hammer sauce.

and it cannot be because we can go either way - why the game is still on I mean.

2 skum 1 town 2 dorian
- we lynch town, skum wins
- we lynch skum, skum shoots town, skum wins.

so there actually like... MUST be something else in play.

There is, and now that Skip has been hammered, I'll explain it.

When we have 1 player alive on our team, we have an "initiate" action that allows the scum player to offer another player to change their win condition to ours. They don't get to learn who we are. So if y'all had decided to lunch EFHW or I, we could have initiated skip tonight and he would have won with us if he chose to alter his win condition.

At least, I think that's why the game still goes on.

Ah, interesting. This game has had so many interesting mechanics. I’m going to be sad when it’s over.

[EFHW]

I believe that is hammer sauce.

and it cannot be because we can go either way - why the game is still on I mean.

2 skum 1 town 2 dorian
- we lynch town, skum wins
- we lynch skum, skum shoots town, skum wins.

so there actually like... MUST be something else in play.

YOUR fate is still undetermined.

[EFHW]

I don't know if 2 Dornians 1 scum is a win for scum. We are supposed to control the world.  It seems like you guys would be in control in that situation. Or maybe you aren't part of the world we have to control?

[EFHW]

If Swan is right about scum winning no matter who is lynched,  then I don't think the recruiting power is relevant. Dornians could still die, so the game's results are not fully determined yet.

[skip wooznum]

I don't know if 2 Dornians 1 scum is a win for scum. We are supposed to control the world.  It seems like you guys would be in control in that situation. Or maybe you aren't part of the world we have to control?

Survivors definitely should not count.

If there's only one faction alive other than survivors, that means they survived. Even if survivors are majority, the game should end.

[Swowl]

yeah if your win con is to survive/keep anything from preventing it, you could pop one of us off tonight and lynch the other tomorrow.
and I am not lying about our wincon - it is fixed to, in this case, Skum's win con - so assuming you just met your win con, we also met ours, and game should end.

[EFHW]

Well, nothing up our sleeves.

[mail-mi]

Well, nothing up our sleeves.

yup

[WestCoastDidds]

Ash will probably be around in a couple of hours...

[WestCoastDidds]

Yams, when is the baby due??

[mail-mi]

Yams, when is the baby due??

November 28.

[EFHW]

Yams, when is the baby due??

raerae's baby reminded me of this - Have you ever noticed that other people's pregnancies go by really quickly?

[WestCoastDidds]

Yams, when is the baby due??

November 28.

I’m so excited for you!! I’ll want your address later to send you a donkey!

[mail-mi]

Yams, when is the baby due??

November 28.

I’m so excited for you!! I’ll want your address later to send you a donkey!

Not sure if my wife would like a pet donkey. 

[WestCoastDidds]

Yams, when is the baby due??

raerae's baby reminded me of this - Have you ever noticed that other people's pregnancies go by really quickly?

Ha! Sometimes! But since April was nine million days long, anything that began in Before Time seems like eons ago. When I met e and his wife in Germany, they we’re expecting but that one took forever. I’m paced to semesters, though, so that’s part of it.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yams, when is the baby due??

November 28.

I’m so excited for you!! I’ll want your address later to send you a donkey!

Not sure if my wife would like a pet donkey. 

Fair enough. Shipping is a lot on the live ones, too. So, you’ll have to settle for the stuffed animal version. If she comes around on the live one, though, just let me know.

[Swowl]

Yams, when is the baby due??

November 28.

I’m so excited for you!! I’ll want your address later to send you a donkey!

Not sure if my wife would like a pet donkey. 

Fair enough. Shipping is a lot on the live ones, too. So, you’ll have to settle for the stuffed animal version. If she comes around on the live one, though, just let me know.

there is this little tiny part of me that believes you know the weight to cost ratio for shipping a live donkey now

[ashersky]

Day 6 Final Vote Count:

skip (3): WCD, EFHW, mail-mi

Not Voting (2): DatSwan, skip wooznum

With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

[ashersky]

In the end it was hard to believe.  We had done it, humankind with only the strength of our will and belief in ourselves, had overthrown the Espheni conquerors.  We had help, but that was also our doing, instilling confidence and belief in others.

So there was no surprise when we were our own undoing.  I fought, but I lost, along with the others.  At least there was some humanity left.  They let me have this pencil and paper…

--final diary entry, a cold summer sunset during summer in an abandoned prison cell


skip wooznum was lynched!  They were Anne Glass-Mason, the Surgeon General.  They were human.

[ashersky]

They surveyed the planet from orbit.  If Dornia had tear ducts, they may have shed tears.  As it was, they shared psychic feelings of sadness instead.

We had such high hopes.

At least they helped defeat the Espheni, once and for all.

Yes.  At least.

And yet, this doesn’t feel right.

Nor finished.  Maybe someday, if we return, this planet will be different.

Maybe someday.

The Dornia have departed Earth, having fulfilled their destiny.  DatSwan and WestCoastDidds win!  They were 其の白鳥, a Dornian, and 西海岸ディッズ, Another Dornian.

[ashersky]

On the surface, people walk with heads down, fear on their faces.  The numbers joining the mafia grow, the lawlessness becoming the law of the land.

The old adage holds true, power abhors a vacuum.  One oppressor overthrown, another takes its place.

Is this the only future left for humanity?  Constant struggle and pain?  Why can there be no peace?

The Mafia control the world now, and nothing can stop them.

2.7 (posthumously), EFHW, and mail-mi win!  They were Jimmy Numbers, Tiny, and Boss, respectively.

[ashersky]

Various QTs:

Mod (redacted, with commentary): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/gLcDvC5YA5t

The Last Princess (shraeye): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/9LWAt6wRJ4Yy

Boss (mail-mi): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/sBbD9hKbdeG
Tiny (EFHW): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/bY6qdWFuBixF
Jimmy Numbers (2.7): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/WKSC9C6EEihK
Mafia Headquarters: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/xvwGzBxg3JWg

Anthony Walker (Galzria): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/FqBnf9Sn2gwuS
Isabella (cayvie): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/XZDFcnn4ArSG

Survivor's Guilt Anonymous, Session 1 (Night 1): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/YhWfRJFdtdKX
Survivor's Guilt Anonymous, Session 14 (Night 2): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/tPL2dLghPUKP
Survivor's Guilt Anonymous, Session 4 (Night 3): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/Vhd7k55JgqGh
Mod Error: No SGA on Night 4
Survivor's Guilt Anonymous, Session 9 (Night 5): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/h7uW6bbf9Qh

A Dornian (DatSwan): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/kVfnnjcrQeWR
Another Dornian (WCD): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/Ew8AkH2P7hb
The Dornians: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/DucA752Yvqyig

Tom Mason (uncle): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/AVSqpT2SUcfHC
Anne Glass-Mason (skip): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/HHTi9BUavS4P
Matt Mason (Lalight): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/Th82MWDY4s9N
Rita (Space): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/RLYgJjwPEnne
Shaq (MiX): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/kEfRQSqaFHe
Cochise (pubby): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/XYYFq9ngZKZLA
Dai (faust): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/Ynjx9LDcJBsyn

Handmade Cage: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/6yuufiVD64nw4

Soul Stasis Pod Cloud: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/rXB6SM7exStD

Feel free to ask any questions (bolded for ease of notice) regarding the setup, roles, or game and I will attempt to answer them here in thread.

[ashersky]

Thank you to all the players who participated.  This was an enjoyable experience for me, and I hope it was for all of you.

I wrote up some thoughts on roles, design, and the game in the Mod QT that I shared.  I highly recommend you read the full role post for each role to see how the different aspects interacted.

As for the way the ending felt drawn out, due to multiple possibilities, including player decisions, I couldn't just call the game until now.  As mail-mi pointed out, mafia could have recruited.  Also unknown to most was that it only took two players to lynch a Dornian, so they could have been eliminated by town on D5 or scum on D6.  Plus the Dornia had some kingmaking possibilities.

faust got the right of it -- a lesson in the danger of survivors.  And what were all the characters, if not survivors of a grand war against aliens?

Thank you again for playing, and I apologize to those players who were unhappy with their roles, aspects of those roles, or any other deficit in my modding and designing abilities.

Feel free to ask questions (please bold for ease of finding) and I will try to answer them.

Best to all.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ash, this was SO FUN! Thank you!!!

I really appreciate all of the effort you put into making it as complicated and interesting as it was. I also appreciate that you were okay with a tasteful owl meme...and that it rubbed e the wrong way! And as you surmised in the mod QT, Swan and I are the ideal candidates for unfettered chat access. That made the game so much more awesome for me. Mad props and much appreciation!

[WestCoastDidds]

there is this little tiny part of me that believes you know the weight to cost ratio for shipping a live donkey now

Is Didds a code name for Donkey? Who can know??

[Swowl]

Awesome game Ash! Thanks!

Good game to everybody.

Didds and I apologize if it felt drawn out... it wasn't on purpose we promise! We legit flipped and flopped back and forth just based on the upsides/downsides of truth and lies. It was exhausting. Fun, but exhausting.

Thanks again Ash!

[EFHW]

All the last minute twists made the game exciting for me. Thanks ashersky!

[EFHW]

I don't feel great about perpetrating blackmail.

btw, I requested town for this game! I've been scum 5 of my last 6 games. I've forgotten how to be towny!

[MiX]

I don't feel great about perpetrating blackmail.

btw, I requested town for this game! I've been scum 5 of my last 6 games. I've forgotten how to be towny!

Amen to that! How else would I catch you?

I'm kinda bummed out I randomly died. At least getting dayvigged 2 IRL days into D1 was due to someone.

[mail-mi]

That was tons of fun!! Thanks Ash! Incredible design 

[skip wooznum]

Reading swan's qt. Lol I was wondering what you meant by '99'. Yeah, I was talking bout community. 

[Swowl]

Reading swan's qt. Lol I was wondering what you meant by '99'. Yeah, I was talking bout community.

haha I loved that I got that hint drop - I have, like since the next day, started watching community. fantastic show so far lol

[Uncleeurope]

Reading swan's qt. Lol I was wondering what you meant by '99'. Yeah, I was talking bout community.

haha I loved that I got that hint drop - I have, like since the next day, started watching community. fantastic show so far lol

My fav sitcom of all time (I almost said favorite show...)

Eh, yeah, I'll commit. It's my favorite show.

[Uncleeurope]

Reading swan's qt. Lol I was wondering what you meant by '99'. Yeah, I was talking bout community.

haha I loved that I got that hint drop - I have, like since the next day, started watching community. fantastic show so far lol

How far are you through it so far?

[skip wooznum]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

[MiX]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

Scum could be lynched, and scum shot the wrong dornian, and dornians then kingmake for town.

[skip wooznum]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

Scum could be lynched, and scum shot the wrong dornian, and dornians then kingmake for town.

why wouldn't scum just shoot me for the win though?

[MiX]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

Scum could be lynched, and scum shot the wrong dornian, and dornians then kingmake for town.

why wouldn't scum just shoot me for the win though?

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

[skip wooznum]

Eh, wut?

[skip wooznum]

Reading swan's qt. Lol I was wondering what you meant by '99'. Yeah, I was talking bout community.

haha I loved that I got that hint drop - I have, like since the next day, started watching community. fantastic show so far lol

My fav sitcom of all time (I almost said favorite show...)

Eh, yeah, I'll commit. It's my favorite show.

Better than 'The Cape'?!

[MiX]

Eh, wut?

Scum could think dornians were lying, or out of spite try to kill the one that was alive, or randomized and chose to kill the wrong dornian...

It could've happened.

[Uncleeurope]

I guess I should talk about the game a bit.

This... Was not a fun experience for me.

I kinda wrote out a long post about why, touching on the 6/14 town thing, the underwhelming town powers, the lack of control I felt, but it really doesn't matter.

In the end, this was an experiment, and I really did think the IC reveal was nice, and experiments are meant to test weird stuff, and I am glad that we were able to test weird stuff.

I just don't have interest in revisiting this specific bundle of weird stuff.

[skip wooznum]

Eh, wut?

Scum could think dornians were lying, or out of spite try to kill the one that was alive, or randomized and chose to kill the wrong dornian...

It could've happened.

Yeah fine. I guess my point is that there was a clear and more or less obvious path to ending the game, which was shooting the last town player. Was it a technical certainty that scum would do it? I suppose I have to admit it was not. So yeah, I guess from ash's pov it would be wrong to call the game if it's not 100%, but from my pov it was not fun when I was left alive in a situation with almost no hope, where I had no ability whatsoever to impact the game.

But that being said, thanks ash, for modding, and for a really cool setup!!! Up until the end, I had a really great time.

[skip wooznum]

I guess I should talk about the game a bit.

This... Was not a fun experience for me.

I kinda wrote out a long post about why, touching on the 6/14 town thing, the underwhelming town powers, the lack of control I felt, but it really doesn't matter.

In the end, this was an experiment, and I really did think the IC reveal was nice, and experiments are meant to test weird stuff, and I am glad that we were able to test weird stuff.

I just don't have interest in revisiting this specific bundle of weird stuff.

If only we lynched efhw...

[skip wooznum]

the underwhelming town powers

Actually, mix and pubby had really cool powers. They just died young.

If e hadn't cooked those books, this might've gone a whole lot differently.

[Uncleeurope]

I guess I should talk about the game a bit.

This... Was not a fun experience for me.

I kinda wrote out a long post about why, touching on the 6/14 town thing, the underwhelming town powers, the lack of control I felt, but it really doesn't matter.

In the end, this was an experiment, and I really did think the IC reveal was nice, and experiments are meant to test weird stuff, and I am glad that we were able to test weird stuff.

I just don't have interest in revisiting this specific bundle of weird stuff.

If only we lynched efhw...

Yup...

Haha. inwardly screaming

[Swowl]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

We could of lynched skum, and i could of doctored you?
Btw i got a doc shot from you

[skip wooznum]

Also fair, technically. But why would you do that? You win either way, there would be no reason to risk anything just for town's benefit.

[faust]

Looking at the whole setup, I do feel that mafia was overpowered. They had pretty strong powers, and there were two killing roles with the explicit purpose of killing non-mafia players.

[Swowl]

Also fair, technically. But why would you do that? You win either way, there would be no reason to risk anything just for town's benefit.

We needed to be sure whoever killed didds was dead.  It saying it was a super solid concept, but we actually did consider it for a moment. That was why we kept trying to find a way to win with town (game ends and everyone that can shoot is dead).

[Swowl]

Also fair, technically. But why would you do that? You win either way, there would be no reason to risk anything just for town's benefit.

We needed to be sure whoever killed didds was dead.  It saying it was a super solid concept, but we actually did consider it for a moment. That was why we kept trying to find a way to win with town (game ends and everyone that can shoot is dead).

*not saying it was a super solid concept*

[ashersky]

So....

I think I read through all the relevant information.

@ash, why exactly did we have to play out day 6?

A few possibilities existed, as some have pointed out:

--a scum lynch followed by a Dornia NK could have resulted in a town win
--a Dornia lynch was possible with only two votes (both double hated)
--a No Lynch with different NK options

I agree that in general, the outcome was already set, but there were some good lies and doubt created by you that could have changed the way mafia or Dornia played, as well.

[ashersky]

I guess I should talk about the game a bit.

This... Was not a fun experience for me.

I kinda wrote out a long post about why, touching on the 6/14 town thing, the underwhelming town powers, the lack of control I felt, but it really doesn't matter.

In the end, this was an experiment, and I really did think the IC reveal was nice, and experiments are meant to test weird stuff, and I am glad that we were able to test weird stuff.

I just don't have interest in revisiting this specific bundle of weird stuff.

I'm really sorry you were displeased and unhappy.  That was not my intent.

[ashersky]

Looking at the whole setup, I do feel that mafia was overpowered. They had pretty strong powers, and there were two killing roles with the explicit purpose of killing non-mafia players.

I would disagree, but ymmv.

Mafia basically had a godfather (mail-mi), a roleblocker (EFHW), and a 1-Shot Mafia Lightning Rod that actually worked by random redirection instead (2.7).  It didn't protect against kills, but messed with everything else.  The double kill required a hard bus, which they were never able (or willing) to pull off, and there were times when they couldn't get the first vote on a partner.  The mafia lynch is an example of that.  The recruit was also hard to use, and most probably would have failed. It was more of a failsafe in case they got caught very early.

To win, they needed to remove 11.5 players from the game (given the Dornia were unattached in the beginning).  Even with two Dornia surviving to the end, it took six days to guarantee victory.  Shraeye and cayvie HAD to be dead or already won (and left).  On the flip side, they could have been lynched or NKed just like anyone else.

I think it's fairer for you to say that [insert your faction] was underpowered, honestly.  I don't know that we can fully measure that regarding town, though, given both investigative roles were removed very early.  Space replacing LaLight was strong, and earlier use of the vote powers would have made a difference.

And has been said, if folks had just listened to uncle's reads...

One thing I would have done is possibly make one of the mafia members an alien.  A rogue Volm would have worked well.  That probably would have helped town with balance.

[faust]

I don't see any other faction that is underpowered though. Like Humanists, shraeye, town were on a roughly balanced level, though of course there was a big amount of swinginess. And Dornians - well their win condition varies so wildly that it's difficult to make any kind of judgment.

Just seemed like mafia had it good. I agree that a mafia Alien would have gone a long way to making things more balanced.

And this is not news I think, but I'm generally not a big fan of RNG elements, the random redirection thing was not a fun experience for me. The game could have played out very differently if my N1 action had hit its intended target.

That is all not to say that this wasn't an amazing setup. Like the only reason I keep talking about it is because there was so much going on. I guess I'm just a bit miffed that I got 2 scum lynched and that ended up hurting town.

[MiX]

I don't see any other faction that is underpowered though. Like Humanists, shraeye, town were on a roughly balanced level, though of course there was a big amount of swinginess. And Dornians - well their win condition varies so wildly that it's difficult to make any kind of judgment.

Just seemed like mafia had it good. I agree that a mafia Alien would have gone a long way to making things more balanced.

And this is not news I think, but I'm generally not a big fan of RNG elements, the random redirection thing was not a fun experience for me. The game could have played out very differently if my N1 action had hit its intended target.

That is all not to say that this wasn't an amazing setup. Like the only reason I keep talking about it is because there was so much going on. I guess I'm just a bit miffed that I got 2 scum lynched and that ended up hurting town.

I think mafia was overpowered only in comparison to the rest. All factions were pretty weak, except mafia didn't have notable weaknesses. Town was gimped by not being the majority, humanists were going in blind and I think Galzria's powers were underwhelming and hard to even reach, and shraeye needed a stroke of luck to land his NK without leaving him powerless.

One more alien would help town, but then humanists would have to be buffed...which they kinda should anyway, as ash said it himself.

Randomization is very polarizing with the amount of 1-shot abilities that were flying around. Ash called it a 1-shot lightning rod, but that has the important feature of not letting you do the NK.

It feels like the whole setup was the ultimate test to see if town knows which third-parties to lynch. In this game, it turns out you should never lynch third-party, as no one wants to kill mafia at night so you have to use the day to do that. But that's nigh impossible for town to know in advance.

[faust]

I think mafia was overpowered only in comparison to the rest.

In comparison to what can you be overpowered if not the other factions?

[MiX]

I think mafia was overpowered only in comparison to the rest.

In comparison to what can you be overpowered if not the other factions?

I wouldn't touch the mafia powers to make them weaker (the randomizer can instead be something else that is functionally the same but less randomness), I would instead give stuff to the other factions, is what I meant.

I also think dornians were about the same strength as mafia, although this is pretty much impossible to know given their wincon.

[Uncleeurope]

I think town needed to be buffed if Swidds chose not to be Masons.

Because they essentially gained the ability win apart from town as well as a Vig shot that could only kill Town. (And Shraeye)



What I wanna know is if they resurrected LL and he died again, would another friendly IC show up. Haha.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think town needed to be buffed if Swidds chose not to be Masons.

Because they essentially gained the ability win apart from town as well as a Vig shot that could only kill Town. (And Shraeye)



What I wanna know is if they resurrected LL and he died again, would another friendly IC show up. Haha.

It would have been nice if our bioweapon could have killed scum...  Having no way to kill them other than lynching was tough.

It would also have been cool if your lynch really had reset and let us revote instead of just referenduming you. At that point, we thought if we could lynch EFHW, use a doc shot to protect Swan somehow, and then lynch yams, that would have been optimal.  DatDidds was an unusually good pair for pro-town sentiment, especially when town was in an underdog position. Before I got killed, we were aiming to become town by being on the same wagon 3x, but that would have meant lynching town thrice, and that would have made us look super scummy.

[Uncleeurope]

Swidds*

[WestCoastDidds]

Swidds*

alright, alright

[cayvie]

faust: you threw me for a loop day 1 with your "sanity check" line! i was certain you were my partner picking up my signals that i was Delusional

[faust]

faust: you threw me for a loop day 1 with your "sanity check" line! i was certain you were my partner picking up my signals that i was Delusional

Haha, I just thought I would make a fun CoC reference.

[skip wooznum]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

@cayvie, this post of yours totally had me thinking you were town.
What made you think town could use multiple powers? Especially in light of the fact that town!mix clearly implies that he can't? I considered this a bona fide townslip.

[cayvie]

By the way, the best way to use your role is to say nothing, use it on your scumread N1, and if they don't die say you fruit vendor'd someone and they should claim that they got the fruit or you out them and they're lynched. This way you get to know if there's any bus driver shenanigans and it accomplishes the same. Also also, you have more than one power so you're not using the vig shot N1, which means the claim is useless for now. All of this adds to you being scum.

Just wait untill cayvie flips not town to see that I'm right.

On a reread, I think mix scum slipped here.

More specifically, in the assumption that I can't use multiple powers in one night (which I can).

I put it to you that scum (who already have a nightkill) is more likely to have single powers in this game than town, and thus would not have had a reason to ask the mod.

vote: mix

@cayvie, this post of yours totally had me thinking you were town.
What made you think town could use multiple powers? Especially in light of the fact that town!mix clearly implies that he can't? I considered this a bona fide townslip.

uh my play was just to make confident statements when i was like 20% sure of something. i hit a lot of 20%'s this game lol

[MiX]

@cayvie, this post of yours totally had me thinking you were town.
What made you think town could use multiple powers? Especially in light of the fact that town!mix clearly implies that he can't? I considered this a bona fide townslip.

The joke here, of course, is that I then asked if I could use both of my powers the same night, and got a yes.

Absolute statements about mechanics is what scum's best at, especially third-party. That's their life and blood.